Protocol Community Meeting (April '22)

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:10

   uh welcome to the april protocol meeting i think we had a great one last month in march uh and yeah today i think uh we're going to go through uh yeah josh can i go to the agenda uh so yeah we're going to do the do the euro update um on what we're working on on the protocol side uh and then we're going to have an interesting discussion uh like process for proposing new features and we also have uh jake here

2. 0:40

   uh yeah for people who are not familiar with uh is working uh with the community on uh setting the contract standards uh working with uh things like fundable and non-functional token standard and other uh other standards that are very important for smart contract developers so he has a lot of thoughts on uh what's the process to uh proposing a new standard uh and so on so forth so uh we're going to kind of have a discussion on like how uh how to kind of combine

3. 1:13

   that with um the process to proposing new protocol features uh and then maybe there are some differences and i hope hopefully it's going to be an interesting discussion uh and of course we'll have uh time for q a yeah actually uh jay you want to give a quick introduction hi i'm jay was that quick that was really quick i'm jay i've been working with uh pagoda for about six weeks now um just kind of thrown into the

4. 1:43

   standards deep in uh i come from um the enterprise software development world so spent my good share time uh working for the big guys like oracle and dell um i've also had some pepperings of of uh startups way back in the day um super super excited to kind of dive into this this project i really think that uh this platform represents kind of the version 3.0 of blockchain so um yeah that's basically me in a nutshell so awesome thanks jay yeah you wanna continue bone

5. 2:24

   yep uh so we'll give a quick update first um so there were some uh changes in the new core release schedule so we had to basically freeze the releases uh i think at the end close to the end of march this was because that uh we observed that some instability around violators missing blocks at the beginning of the epoch um and that actually uh persisted for a period of time uh which led us to thinking that uh we should focus our time and effort on figuring out what's going on and

6. 3:03

   prevent things from happening again so i just want to uh provide the community with an update on that um so we've basically formed a special work group to tackle this problem uh what we did is that uh we added a lot of uh metrics as well as working with uh violators to um uh to figure out uh how how we can get them to uh kind of send us certain uh metrics and our other facing events to help us understand uh what's going on because we uh pagoda doesn't run a validator at this point on mainnet

7. 3:41

   um so i think we've made a very good progress um and we figure out uh there are a couple uh causes uh to the to the problem that we observed that caused value to the missed blocks at the beginning of epoch uh we will have some mitigation strategy implemented and or some of them are fully fixed uh so so we started resuming the release process and it's basically going to resume uh next week so i think next wednesday we're going to have the tesla release

8. 4:13

   for 1.26 and then four weeks afterwards we'll have the uh release for for mainnet uh and as i said we added a lot of um observability improvements so so going forward it should also be easier for us to understand the cost of problems uh so they occur so yeah that's basically the updates uh on this side i think that has been pretty much our focus for the past months i would say uh and charge if

9. 4:42

   you go to the next one yeah so uh just kind of uh giving an update on what we're working on uh on the protocol features uh so as you can see the uh the change that increased maximum gas burns has already been uh released uh so it's not fully life um and yeah it basically allows for more capacity in a single transaction if people need to need to run some expressive transaction that consumes more gas than what was

10. 5:14

    previously allowed and what is in the pipeline uh what we're currently working on is this outbn128 support um that would allow us to have uh private transactions on mainnet uh which is great uh or i mean it it by itself doesn't directly allow that but it provides the crypto primitives for people to build private transactions uh split on used cash across promises i think that's what we mentioned last time

11. 5:44

    uh but because uh the work is uh i think basically down this point um we're just waiting for it to go to the next release uh i think pretty much the same things with kaifeng uh trying those that already talked about last time that allowed it's an optimization that would allow us to save um safeguards for uh i would say most of the transactions that uh the touch storage either storage reader

12. 6:08

    storage right so yeah that's basically the uh the update on uh on the protocol side and uh i i guess yeah yeah we could definitely uh ask if anybody has any questions on uh maybe take a moment to pause and see if anybody has any questions and yeah basically the update and what we're currently working on before we move to the next topic um but yeah if you have a question feel free to drop it in the q a section at

13. 6:42

    the bottom uh or if you'd like to actually join the call and ask live uh just comment something in chat let me know i'm monitoring both the chat and the q a section uh and we can go ahead and bring you on stage so you can ask your question uh via voice but yeah feel free to drop something in the chat if you are interested and participating um i guess one one question would be you you talked about the release schedule and that we're resuming it could you

14. 7:14

    just go over briefly what the release schedule is as far as testnet and mainnet um and with the regular cadences yeah so so i think there is actually a blog post that i can suggest people read but basically there is a five five week release schedule that we're following right now uh so basically four weeks between uh tests and the main night and then after the midnight one week after the uh midnight release it would be the next

15. 7:43

    um would be the next test that we do so i can post this link ah cool awesome yeah i have a few questions they're more general questions uh not necessarily pertaining uh to what we just covered so i think i'm going to um maybe we will move on to the next topic we'll talk about um i believe the next oops yeah feature proposals yeah we're gonna have a discussion around um how you can propose an np

16. 8:25

    and then after that we'll open it up for the ama um general questions cool so did you want to lead this conversation or is this something that's going to go to jay uh yeah i can do the conversation although so i think i might have found a way to join us host uh wait okay yeah i don't know whether it's worth trying again you want to try one one more time um okay yeah let's let's try one more time but okay

17. 8:59

    all right thanks again everyone for for bearing with our our technical difficulties cool awesome awesome to see yeah simon ravi um and some anonymous questions really awesome bowen yay very okay very weird i essentially what i did is i clicked the same link like i click a link that should be the same as your sundays except that that link was sent through sound like it was like um like an email like like a google invite and then like click from there

18. 9:38

    okay like magically it works i don't okay this is very uh very absurd oh actually it's not entirely the same oh i think there's like small differences so maybe that's why i see cool yeah no no problem we gotta figure it out okay yeah it's uh yeah this is a bit ridiculous but uh okay so do you want me to share my screen or yeah yeah go for it yeah go ahead and share your screen

19. 10:03

    and uh yeah we can kick off the conversation yeah and keep those questions coming in um we'll we'll definitely make time after the nep discussions uh for these general ama questions yeah so um yeah so i think this is something that people are very interested in uh since uh we kind of talked about last time that we want to move towards uh a more community-driven development process uh and this is an important part of that as being so we have to have a way for

20. 10:34

    anyone in the community to propose um propose new features or improvements to the protocol uh and it shouldn't just be one single team uh that's doing all of that work uh so uh i think the the other side of the the story is that uh i believe we are still in the early stages of the evolution of the protocol uh even though mainnet uh has been live since october 2020 and and we launched phase zero of

21. 11:06

    sharding uh in november 2021 uh excusing where in the in the early stages of the entire uh entire protocol development and as a result uh still wants uh us to have the ability to to move fast uh and iterate on things quickly uh instead of kind of kind of getting bogged down uh in the processes and have a lot of overhead which would somewhat which would inevitably slow down the development process

22. 11:37

    so as a result i kind of want to propose a more lightweight process to proposing new protocol features um and yeah of course we also have jake here i think he has already already polished a process for the standard so maybe we can have a discussion uh after after talk about this right so so essentially i kind of want to simplify the process to pretty much three steps so let's say you are uh someone who is interested in uh proposing a new protocol feature uh so the first step is

23. 12:16

    essentially drafting uh an ap pull request uh so i think j worked out a very nice template which we can uh present later on uh but essentially it's a somewhat standard rrfc process uh that you kind of describe what the feature you're proposing is and have some detailed description of what problem you're trying to solve and and how the the new feature uh works and then how it works on the uh on the reference level on the project respect level uh and then at the same

24. 12:48

    time to kind of uh uh to kind of both act as a civil resistance um prevention and then also as acting as a way to uh to ensure that people giving enough salt into into their proposal uh we also ask people to actually provide a prototype implementation when they provide the draft and ap pull request this is as i said this is also to help validate uh help other people who review the the pull request validate um that the the

25. 13:20

    proposal is indeed feasible and it's not something that is um theoretically elegant but putting practice very hard to implement um so yeah that's basically the first step and then the second establish that uh a a committee uh will essentially essentially review this proposal and then uh we we come into having a less than two months review period where uh in this period um there will be a back and forth between the reviewer and the

26. 13:49

    person who submitted the proposal um yeah and we basically just put a time bound here to avoid uh indefinite iteration on the uh on the proposal and then essentially at the end uh there should be uh uh once we get to the state where we think uh this is essentially ready uh we will do like a uh basically a final uh check in uh english meeting uh that uh i think we can discuss how exactly we want this to uh

27. 14:22

    to happen uh but presumably the the proposed the proposer of the feature will do a presentation and then to see if there are any final objections uh and then we can essentially make the decision of uh having this uh feature or like approving this feature uh in this meeting so that's kind of the process i had in mind it's definitely not perfect or it's very far from perfect um but but i think we're trying basically trying to

28. 14:51

    balance allowing us to still move fast and also um allowing people anyone in the community uh to have the ability to contribute to the protocol uh so yeah i think i'll just pause here and then let jay speak to um the process that he's working on on on the contract standard side and yeah that's thanks bo and that's really good i was so part of my goal here i kind of initially came in here um from the contract standard side right trying to attack things from i guess the application side or standardization of

29. 15:25

    applications um and one of the things that that sort of was different uh right off the bat between protocol and standards was um the implementation of a prototype so i'm super happy on point two to see you um to actually want to have a prototype implementation as part of the the early process because i'm like a very strong believer and show me the code early right that's awesome um so i don't know if that what's the best way for me to present this just take the screen over and show you guys the nep

30. 15:57

    um repo maybe and go through that yeah absolutely um i'll try to just not read it to you know i got i got a pretty picture got some sticks and lines here we could look at uh and bone just to clarify so as far as like the nep process moving forward i know we've had kind of sometimes started in the governance forum and having you know conversations there and then they'll also migrate to nep um you kind of want to consolidate things like if someone has a proposal

31. 16:29

    let's just start and draft that proposal oh yeah that's actually yeah that's a great point josh i think here i'm more talking about the essentially the formal part of the process but of course you know uh we still very much welcome discussions on the on the governance forum and then if you look at how how the rush rpg process work they actually kind of encourage this pre-rfc that's not really really like

32. 16:54

    formally part of the the process but they encourage people to you know just discussing proposed ideas on the forum and then once they get to a stage where uh they feel that you know they have enough confidence to formally propose a new feature then you kind of move to the this formal process oh uh chasers disappear no not sure everyone uh watch for him to to join back up i believe i made him a co-host so he was able to share we'll see when he comes back okay cool so it's still kind of following the process of like the incubation stage

33. 17:25

    having the chat right um right right yeah yeah gov.nir.org yeah yeah this is talking more talking about the the formalized part of the process and yeah it's not that we're trying to stifle discussions or anything that uh yeah those are very much welcome cool awesome all right um let's see well wait wait a second for uh jay to join ravi i see that you asked a question uh that you're stuck on nfts uh near blockchain and you need some help um you can this that actually um would

34. 17:56

    be handled by my team uh the devrel team feel free to ask that question in dev support on discord and one of my teammates can help you out with that but if you'd like in a couple hours at 11 pm uh pacific uh we'll have office hours where you can ask this question live and actually share your screen and yeah a team of uh deborah uh individuals and community members will be on uh that call as well so yeah and in discord

35. 18:20

    office hours in about two and a half eight yeah three hours ish 11 pacific time uh yeah there yeah thank thanks drew for posting that um yeah feel free to join and get some support there oh actually drew posted to houston i know this probably should push to everyone uh hosting panelists uh yes true yeah can you can you post to everyone you did uh just post the hosts and pounds but

36. 18:45

    yeah near.org forward slash office dash hours uh is a great place to check out all the different support uh live events that we have um but yeah go ahead see your back jay do you have screen sharing permissions sorry about that this this you should label this this meeting as figuring out zoom yeah it's just i got my new system so i gotcha go into the system preferences to give me access to do the presentation sorry guys no problem all right let's let's see if we can get this going believe you should

37. 19:16

    have screen sharing permissions let me know cool awesome okay you guys can see my screen yep yep we can see it yep okay so like the sort of side i guess my corner of the universe is um in this nep's directory or any piece repository rather um i'm sure most of you guys are familiar with it um it looks like it's been around quite a while um and so i'm kind of taking on the role of just trying to get my arms around everything um and

38. 19:48

    and sort of funnel the process and optimize the process a little bit um and so i guess the first my first sort of order of business was to try to collate the different specifications that we have in place already and figure out a way to create a standard of standards so uh following a similar model uh as uh the the pip uh bitcoin and ethereum model um i've created a purpose and guidelines document which is um

39. 20:22

    a living document uh bowen that's that's the way to do it if you don't wanna uh get yourself out of corners just just label it as living and then you can always just change it right yes so um and this is definitely still living and it's very very much still organic um there's still pieces of this uh that are not complete they're off on a pull request um but i'll just go through

40. 20:46

    quickly what this thing sort of describes right um and let me just go down to my picture here so really we're trying to describe how to optimize and create a process from ideation uh all the way into like a final process and again i i'm sort of going at this from the contract side i'm hoping um that we'll be able to further optimize this for both again the contract standards um and the protocol standard side i

41. 21:19

    i know the cadence is going to be different bowdoin you and i talked about that last week but i'm hoping the process will be similar enough to be able to not have to duplicate it right um so essentially what it is is um again you guys have probably seen a lot of this process but um you know step one is to kind of get the the draft up and running and part of that draft is you know creating a little

42. 21:44

    bit of code that represents the idea right um we're going to have an editor role and that editor role is actually going to be filled out into a few other different roles but it'll just sort of represent the administrative side of things within pagoda slash near that'll be responsible for accepting and rejecting draft proposals and the idea is to be as fast as possible there right um we don't

43. 22:14

    necessarily i don't think we necessarily want to have drafts sitting up on a pull request for years on end i know that a lot of processes do that i know eip does that i've been in that process as an author um unfortunately and i know that there are uh speaking with alexi there's there are other processes that kind of struggle with that with specifically the rust rfc process so um

44. 22:47

    what i'm proposing is that we try to kind of and try to snip that off as fast as possible right um you know put things into a rejected mode and then uh authors can kind of amend and get it back into draft if required or just leave it rejected um and then we kind of move it along into a review process uh for a couple weeks um slot up to two months i haven't really we haven't really determined uh the length of the time yet um put it into a last call state and then finally into into a finalized state so

45. 23:20

    that's kind of the 50 000 foot view of uh what um what i'm thinking about for uh the nep process state um and then i just get into like what doesn't any successful nep look like so um the difference sort of that i've i've added to this process from from the way we were previously doing it is i'd like to have these rfc 822 style headers um it really uh really you know it's a standard way to

46. 23:53

    do things um and and it also allows authors um to have their name on an np which is i think is a very very important thing um and then we just go through the list of different sections and i i think most of you guys have seen this there's a template for all the all this uh stuff just i guess the most important or one of the most important additions as well is this reference implementation section and that's what i was sort of

47. 24:22

    speaking to bowen before i i also believe that um you know show me the code let's let's see how this thing works um that you know contracts are code right um so you often don't aren't able to figure things out without actually uh giving it a shot first right so um definitely a believer in that um and i've also added the security implications um section um we still kind of need to flush that

48. 24:54

    out but i think it's an important thing to at least um shoehorn in there and say hey we have to also consider that uh as part of an mep i'm not sure if that'll necessarily be uh something useful on the protocol side but it's definitely useful on that oh it's very useful yeah okay yeah okay perfect um and then i just get into a bunch of how-to's um and i'll just show you one more thing importantly i guess we've got this nep

49. 25:26

    template that just kind of kind of kick starts things right gives you a template of how to create a new ndp i'd like to flush this out further and i'd like to really work with with you bowen and maybe create one for a good example for what a protocol would look like protocol level one would look like and a good example of what um you know contracts level uh standard my standard template might look like so

50. 25:52

    that's that's sort of what i've been working on um we've also got this uh zulip chat this is kind of where i make the announcements um of you know the existing standards going through the standards process um we can have discussions and stuff sort of more live um in this uh zulips zoop chat this is my first time using zulip so um but yeah that's that's basically the process in a nutshell um very high level still

51. 26:28

    definitely uh still alive uh i'll just show you quickly the uh the pull request right now that's got some conversation around it um pr 350 um you'll see that you'll notice that that the existing nep1 was kind of missing a defined set of roles i sort of kind of was wishy-washy about it so we're getting into a really good discussion over um you know roles ownership and accountability specifically um so we're again still trying to figure this process out and

52. 27:04

    i welcome conversation uh on this poll request from the community and from from anybody that wants to participate awesome thanks so much jay there's a there's a guy um mike luna nova that asks uh looks like a good process structure what's the decision making criteria that's a good question um i i can speak from the standard side um one of the first steps i think in the process is to kind of get it out there

53. 27:35

    in the community so we're recommending um kind of reaching out on our governance forum and i've added a link here um right into the standard section and start a conversation there um this this will allow the community the development community and the wider community to be able to say hey this is a good idea um you know we haven't seen this before um let's let's push it along and so i think that's that's one of the most important things for kind of getting things um kind of on deck i guess right

54. 28:10

    um did that answer your question um i i think yes so just from my understanding i think the question maybe is more about um how do we accept or reach how do we decide whether to accept or reject a uh a proposal uh so i think yeah that's a i think that's a great question uh from my perspective for the pro school um i think what we're going to do is that we're going to form a committee uh and initially it's probably going to be um

55. 28:42

    going to be some some people from pagoda and we're probably going to um looking to uh decentralizing that over time uh but what will happen is that uh so towards the end of the process there will be a uh community vote uh and then we can decide uh so so we can probably just use uh ask for dial for that or um or other other tools that we build um and then uh we can decide whether we want like you know unanimous consent or

56. 29:12

    we want just like a super majority um so so i think yeah it's a great question we haven't flashed all the details yet but uh those are some some ideas that have come just to solidify kind of what you were saying to jay um so and so everyone is clear like the process that we'd like go to governance govdetneer.org talk about things incubate your idea when you're ready to make a proposal then go to the nep repo follow the kind of format for actually

57. 29:44

    making a proposal and then you'll also link to the zulu chat which a lot of our core engineers are on when do i go there to to chat is that to kind of like say hey i'm checking on the status of my of my repo or is that another place that is for incubation of ideas um just so people can kind of understand the difference between when do i go to zulip versus when do i go to governance

58. 30:09

    i i'm leaving it open um for for kind of either more right um government is it's a good place to sort of uh do it asynchronously but zulu there's a lot of big brains in there sitting around um that can answer some more technical questions i think more immediately um so i would say i would say kind of say both but depending on your needs yeah so so yeah i agree with what jay said so to elaborate on that basically governance is uh forum is for like a

59. 30:39

    longer post and and where it there will be more asynchronous communication around it may uh you know may take people a day or several days to post a longer response but also if it's kind of more synchronous is almost like semi-synchronous uh you know you can have like real-time interaction with people asking questions or or brainstorming some ideas cool um yeah i see some other questions that are in the chat that aren't necessarily pertaining to this

60. 31:11

    um we will answer those shortly um but i just want to leave space for anybody that has any further clarifying questions on the nep process standard process before we get into general ama so yeah feel free to drop your question in the q a portion in the bottom there's a little icon where you can click on or yeah if you'd like to just drop in the chat i see some questions in the chat as well um that yeah we'll be answering right after this conversation

61. 31:44

    um yeah i guess um we can we can open up for for ama unless no one has any other clarifying questions is there anything else you wanted uh to cover j or bowen before we move on uh i just want to say like this is still in a kind of preliminary state i think i i hope to uh work together with jay in the upcoming weeks to have something more polished written down and posted to for everyone to read

62. 32:17

    so hopefully i can give an update in the in the next month's protocol meeting uh on the progress uh on this one awesome that's just what i was going to say this is still very organic and early so cool sounds good um all right let me go to some of the questions in the q a um i i see simon as uh smart contract developers still get 30 of transaction fees um yes they do i don't believe anything is changing

63. 32:49

    uh as far as i'm aware unless bo and you have some sort of insight on that but i don't think there's anything changing with that no no nothing changed okay cool um how is randomness handled uh at the moment in the beacon chain uh basically there's a vrf the every every block there's a uh a random c that's essentially uh computed from uh run by running a vrf on the on the previous blocks randomly

64. 33:23

    cool um when should we expect a new sharding road map when should we expect new sharding roadmap that is that is a great question um so i think i can uh i can provide a high-level update um so uh so as kind of as the demand on near grow um especially in the recent months we're being focusing on making sure that the applications that are already live or are about to to become live on the

65. 33:55

    air can uh can have a smooth experience for their users um meaning that we should the network should be very stable and then accommodate uh the the need for for all those applications um as a result we have been focusing more on stability improvements as well as um single chart performance optimization um and in terms of uh going into the next steps of sharding uh right now i believe uh the phase one uh of sharding uh we hope uh we hope to have it

66. 34:26

    uh implemented and uh released in q3 or q4 this year uh and going beyond that uh i think part of the reason why um uh why i don't want to commit to a super long-term roadmap is because uh things are are changing rapidly and if we're talking about something that's happening uh there's something that's going to happen a year from now uh it is very hard to give a um even like an estimate uh on like you know one exactly that would be become live

67. 34:58

    um so yeah that's basically the update i have written awesome thank you um mario asks uh the the change state representation refers to changing from rocks db to an ad hoc solution is that correct uh no that's separate actually so that is uh change of the underlying database doesn't um doesn't change uh the protocol per se uh the state representation change uh there's more talking about a potential

68. 35:27

    change from a merkle procedure tried to avl tree based stadium representation cool um jafar asks is there a conference scheduled for near um yeah i can take that one there will be near khan this fall location is still uh to be determined i think we're targeting maybe october or something like that i'm not sure actually the the dates aren't finalized yet as well uh but yeah keep an eye out for our town hall um as well as yeah our social channels and we will

69. 36:00

    be certain to announce that once we have that finalized um interview individual asked about a public repo example in your marketplace um yeah again you ask in the dev support channel um uh devrell can definitely help you out with that um yeah we have a lot of examples uh on that and yeah if you can't get an immediate or yeah can't find it in our dev support channel we're usually really responsive there please hang out in the office hours and and ask them some more support questions

70. 36:32

    um uh are we seeing the beginning of a move to a more process focused approach within near foundation mike luna nova s i'm not sure maybe you could elaborate a little bit more on that i'm not exactly sure um if you're talking about the protocol aspect yeah also like none of us here represents your foundation yeah yeah exactly um let's see dennis asks what is the future of wasm

71. 37:04

    support for the protocol do you plan to support more languages to run on nirwasm i've heard that now everything mostly is focused on rust so i'm worrying if assemblyscript sdk support will lag or even be abandoned in the future i can answer a little bit to that um yeah sdk our assembly script sdk hasn't been um updated a lot we've been primarily focused on rust and also we've been

72. 37:25

    short on engineers um and uh yeah just in the tooling team we do have an individual that's been working uh with near sdk javascript which i'm really excited about um and you'll be able to import all those primitives from your javascript and just code incomplete javascript um so yeah sometimes assembly script it looks like typescript and you expect it to behave like typescript and then actually it's not

73. 37:49

    behaving uh as you would like it to and it's not as mature of a language as rust is so that's why we've been kind of shepherding individuals to to use rust but that repo is currently being uh worked on i think you can go to github forward slash near forward slash near sdk dash js to see the process excuse me progress on it um but uh but yeah assembly script will still be there

74. 38:12

    um but we won't be officially like uh near or pagoda as i should say um isn't going to be uh continuing to actively support that um but the community definitely will be um i don't know if you have any other comments on that as well boeing uh yeah so so i i saw that's kind of true question right what is the future of boston support for the protocol and like supporting more languages uh so we are very much still committed to supporting uh rob assembly and that we believe that

75. 38:45

    yeah i don't think anything changed on that front if anything we're probably going to index more uh into like supporting not just web assembly but also um kind of spending more effort on the larger webassembly ecosystem uh maybe contributing or i think in some ways we are already contributing to to the uh webassembly spec and in terms of the the languages that we support uh yeah i think joshua already gave a great answer right now we're looking uh at supporting javascript because uh we believe uh that

76. 39:20

    is uh more friendly to developers than uh sunrise group because um assembly script has its own kind of quirks and and it's not it i mean yeah it behaves kind of like typescript not really and then people kind of get confused sometimes so uh we believe that javascript properties uh javascript sport is probably going to be uh better for people to to onboard and and there's going to be less of a

77. 39:44

    barrier that people have to go through cool um ivy asks is there a doc that lists links to research papers used in near i do have a doc link that i can drop it's all of our papers the near white paper charted blockchain nightshade design all that stuff i will go ahead and drop that in chat um i think that's your question and if it's not uh please feel free to elaborate on that cool um looks like that's all the questions in the q and a section but i see some in chat

78. 40:22

    um let's see if i can scroll up um um can you guys discuss the role of pagoda in protocol and availability futures or upcoming i'm also curious who are the people developing the near protocol there used to be near inc and now it's a distributed group of people from a variety of projects question mark um yeah near ink and near foundation are two separate entities near foundation is basically the individuals that

79. 40:55

    manage all the tokens and they provide grants to people that help support the the protocol and develop on the protocol near inc was the engineering team behind the protocol um also the tooling sdks near api js all that stuff and um near inc has now been rebranded as pagoda to help distinguish the two entities um and near um sorry pagoda is now the company that will be contributing directly to the um source code but it's not owned

80. 41:26

    by pagoda it is still welcome you know pull requests are welcome it's still all open source um and yeah definitely community um driven as far as how we're trying to shape our tooling the protocol hence this meeting and future meetings that we will have to kind of engage the community and find um more of a balance of how how we're how we're shaping uh the future of the of the pros of of the platform itself um bowen do you have anything down yeah um yeah i

81. 41:58

    just want to add a couple things one is that pagoda is a product focused company uh even though we are still contributing heavily to the protocol uh as to the product we're building uh i guess we'll just leave it as a teaser there i think hopefully more announcement would come come soon um and another thing is that uh other um other entities uh companies in the near ecosystem are kind of building

82. 42:22

    their own uh protocol teams as well uh for example our aurora is also building uh internally a political team that would uh that would that would kind of uh build expertise internally and also contribute to to the uh protocol so um so yeah uh as mentioned before pogba is the the only entity who contributes to the protocol awesome i see that daniel also asked something about wanting to reach out and help support the near ecosystem and trying to

83. 42:56

    implement some web free architecture architecture um and he's not a dev but he's wanting to help out there is a whole ecosystem success team on the near foundation that you might be wanting uh to get in touch with ping me on discord and i can help connect you with uh that team uh and also help answer some of your questions uh that are kind of not related to the to the scope of this conversation but more than happy to to

84. 43:19

    answer some of the other questions that you do have um do oh um looks like this is kind of going back to the original conversation at neps um does the proposal need an upgradability section in the sense of describing how easy or complicated it would be to upgrade the contract in case of the change of the new nep that's a good question um i didn't think of that yeah i mean possibly one of the unique features of mirrors is

85. 43:54

    kind of the ability to do upgrades a little more transparently than the other guys um yeah that's that's definitely something we could we could consider it's probably not something that was probably not a protocol question um but i guess you kind of have to also balance that with um so the whole point of having a standard is to have like an interface that the rest of the community can use so you kind of have to balance upgradability with

86. 44:26

    those ripple effects that could potentially happen so um but yeah i could see i would say yes but let's be careful yeah i think so on the protocol side that's also a great question and i think yes we should actually add that because um certain features the implementation may be like not super difficult the difficult part uh could also lie in the in the past to upgrade the protocol for example um well that might not be a good example uh if we

87. 44:56

    think of the implementation of phase zero of sharding um the implementation itself is not trivial but i think what is even more difficult is to to kind of upgrade the existing protocol essentially what happened is that we are upgrading the network live from uh one chart into four charts and that process is quite complicated making sure that everything still works afterwards so a lot of effort was put into just implementing

88. 45:21

    the upgradability part of that protocol change awesome uh kent's asking why have we capped validators to 100. uh yeah that's a great question uh so mostly i mean i don't think 100 is necessarily the limit it's kind of artificially imposed at this point um and the reason is that there is there are certain kind of uh scaling limitations uh there one is related to um signature verification another related to uh the uh erasure code computation uh so

89. 45:57

    uh in the future we're going to look at addressing those bottlenecks maybe with with other signature schemes or other ways to uh to compute things needed for consensus um but at the same time uh when we get to phase one of starting uh we're going to add some corn producers and hopefully that will increase the number of values to a few to a few hundred awesome um yeah that looks like most of them oh mike has one follow-up um to the um

90. 46:31

    collaboration he just wants to know how do we see collaboration between teams uh working uh yeah i think it depends on the specific collaboration i think uh i think most conversations are happening on zurich uh in public and also uh probably on the governance firm and the kind of github issues uh here and there and then we also sometimes have meetings with other teams that are uh working on the protocol together

91. 47:05

    cool mario s is there in view some form of bulk storage in the blockchain uh having to use external data storage as a blocker for some use cases such as health records keeping uh okay so i'm trying to find where the question is so i can uh yeah so i think uh making us doing that um though like yeah i don't have like a a up-to-date answer on uh on their progress i believe they were heavily uh impacted by the uh uh the unfortunate events in ukraine um so

92. 47:47

    yeah i cannot provide a very good answer to that question but but yeah so basically there are things that our projects are working on that gotcha um yeah i see um jing asked some questions about wallet yeah that's definitely a little bit out of scope um for this uh meeting but yeah feel free to ask some questions in our dev support and also there's a wallet channel as well and discord um that the wallet team

93. 48:12

    monitors so yeah feel free to ask more questions about that um or yeah join the office hours and you can ask any question that you want every day um 11 00 to noon pacific and then we have earlier time zones as well um so yeah near that or yeah i'll type it in the chat as well um just for another near.org forward slash office hours that we have every day to answer any question that you want regardless of topic um but yeah it looks like i think we're kind of we got one minute to spare and um i think

94. 48:44

    we got all the questions um if anybody has a last-minute one-minute question to ask um yeah again thank you so much for dealing with our technical troubles we'll hopefully have them all ironed out before next month um but uh but yeah okay so ken's asking a follow-up question uh so as far as transactions per second in theory is about four thousand times six shards uh is this correct uh well i don't know where the number six comes from there are currently four charts uh live on mainnet so yeah i mean

95. 49:24

    in series it should scale roughly linearly with number of shards until operation until some limit cool yeah i think one of these uh protocol meetings we'll definitely uh love to have a sharding topic uh as we further flush out that idea and have ming join us i'd love to love to have that that'd be great um awesome well thanks so much everyone for joining i appreciate it um see y'all

96. 49:50

    next month uh same time thursday um super stoked to see everyone uh joining and interacting with us next week we're going to have a weekly meeting a new meeting that will be just on tooling so if you're interested in sdks or you're interested about near api js or any of the developer development tools i want to talk to the tooling team we'll have a community meeting next week thursday uh

97. 50:16

    same time i'll be posting a link to that in our discord and dev um chats on telegram and all the all the things so keep your eye out for that um but yeah thanks so much for for joining jay and bowen and uh have yourself a great rest of your day thanks everyone have a good day thanks guys