DevHub Live 32 Guest: Race of Sloths - Gamifying Open Source Contributions

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:24

   oh what you want you want what you want you want me what you want

2. 1:26

   what you want what you want what you want what you want me what you want you want you want want you're on mute Joe you're on mute I got it I got it I got I got it we're live we're excited it's the holiday season welcome to devhub live dropping in unexpectedly so trying to get everything going uh Owen great to see you in your

3. 2:34

   festive gear and you too you've really uh Dressed the PO marry Nas yes marry nearas uh we have a super fun show today uh we have the race of SLO coming on to talk about developer rewards engagement everything they've been doing uh with so much to talk about but what also really cool is opportunity for people to actually come up and ask questions and talk and be hopefully really interactive

4. 3:02

   uh episode so without further Ado uh before we get into anything else let's bring up Vlad from both devhub and race of sloth Vlad how are you I'm amazing doing great we have a lot of uh um you know announcements today and we will also talk about all sorts of stuff so and I hope to also have a lot of community members joining us uh if you haven't seen there tegram chat to join the backstage so be ready uh to jump in

5. 3:35

   in maybe like 15 minutes awesome so why don't we kind of level set a little bit and just kind of talk about like what rless loss is like the original idea and then kind of like where it is today yeah absolutely so rour loss of the gamification for open source contributions so if you're developer and you're day today is to contribute to open source you write code you submit po request uh you wait for it to be mer

6. 4:07

   reviewed the merged uh and then you kind of take another opportunity take another problem and solve it and over and over again um you may enjoy your GitHub um timeline and the uh just a hit map that is over there but also you may uh hit another game and join race of SLO to be your extra uh motivation and also a way to show off and uh compete with your friends maybe fellow contributors uh in

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   a friendly way you just you know uh talk about various funny stuff that we launch as part of themed events on rour loss uh every month and that's uh the kind of how it works you just you do not leave GitHub when you create a pool request you just tag the bot uh raise D- o- sloth and uh it will immediately onboard you it will uh show the next steps will show ask the maintainers to also do

8. 5:14

   their next steps on the on the way and at the end of the day after your BL request is merged you you start collecting your slce points and this is how you the way how you basically um earn your points and and uh join the leaderboards uh we have all sorts of different uh thematic leader boards we have longterm shortterm ones uh we have some daily quests so just check it out um most it should be mostly be clear but

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   today I think it will be the opportunity for us to learn is it actually clear to the community really excited to to host this uh event today yeah I really I I participated myself obviously and I really like the leaderboard element of it um I remember at one point I was third for the month and I was trying desperately to maintain my position or rank up but I did not get enough PRS off that day and I dropped down the rankings

10. 6:21

    unfortunately that's a tough game right very competitive uh also try maybe let me share the uh the tab so we can uh just have it on our video so everyone is familiar with the with the UI so this is uh is it already live yeah I can see it y amazing so this is the website and that's how you can learn how it works um on the like um simple four steps that you get in and then what you can get and how to get recognition there is also immediately the leaderboard of top 10 contributors

11. 7:10

    of this month so we don't while there are definitely some people who contributed long term we want to focus mostly on the most recently active ones uh but there is yeah a lot of different opportunities to learn about how the previous months ended also pretty uh pretty nice oh I made it yay I did this month's okay yeah I I will need to uh to do better and um what else what else should I should I save it for later let let me save something later what about the the

12. 7:49

    projects tab or is that for later the project tab obviously yeah we have a bunch of uh projects uh that are uh from nystem but even Beyond n system we have uh some very famous ones uh like access and design access math GS um getting some of the requests going and some activity growing there um uh near blocks team is very active and competitive uh so I'm they will join today and talk about their experiences um there was also a cou projects yeah go ahead I think one of the the interesting things about this

13. 8:31

    and I really like is that some of the projects included on here are like ones that near is like built upon so it's nice to sort of like try and give back somewhat and engage this founded contribute back yeah okay well let's let's maybe not save it for later I really want to talk about it so Hall of Fame this is a new tab we recently introduced it and as you let let me scroll really fast down and we will it we'll see that there are some folks who already reached this

14. 9:09

    bronze level and this means that they contributed for like consistently over some period of time and they already uh getting 5% bonus for every single request and there in terms of the uh SL points that they're gaining uh there are even more folks who reach the silver level um and I'm yeah I'm happy that it's growing obviously there is gold level and platinum well congrats to ol uh to

15. 9:40

    reaching he's the first one breaking the gold level uh but there is obviously there is one level up uh over the platinum and I wonder if you were ready for it so it is actually rust very clever I like it so yeah how you move up yeah go ahead uh I say how do you move up so how is it just do I hit a threshold of points total and I can no it's it's not only about the uh points total it's about uh your weekly streaks and monthly streak that you uh you

16. 10:24

    combine so when you uh we have the usually we we do not you know we're trying to build gradually the whole process so when you go here uh for when you're contributor uh you see your kind of next steps um what how to reach the next level uh but I can definitely reveal the so when you hit five weeks uh of at least one pull request each week uh you will get the first level uh then 10 10 weeks in a row then uh 15 weeks in a row uh I think

17. 11:03

    15 weeks in a row is is the maximum actually and there is also a different uh uh streak of at least one pull request with the rating of eight in a month so it's a pre Biffy contribution that you need to make just once a month and if you do it uh like like col does like every every month uh over the course of past year uh past half year he actually reached that one pull request so after five consecutive months you get

18. 11:37

    the uh one level up and then when you have 10 consecutive months this way so almost a year you will get you will collect them all and this is how you get the rest level and that is a lot of work and a lot of Open Source contributions so that is uh win-win I would say yeah and do you do you retain it for like forever because I saw like lifetime once you reach it's a lifetime bonus um

19. 12:08

    pretty op but you can you you can you can you know keep going it's it's not there is no limit over there we'll see maybe we'll like we didn't expect this much of cons uh consistency uh but we're happy to see that so the real test will be of through the holiday in the New Year people can keep going I think that'll be super impressive oh yeah yeah that would be a challenge but that's when people are off work though so more more time to make

20. 12:41

    PRS you know yeah and though like I just wanted to show on the where is where is me uh how the pull request could look like um so you don't need to go and register anywhere when you open a pool request you just mention the bot as I said and it uh it provides you with a very nice um Dynamic um pagee of of of your profile with all the achievements so far that you you made so I'm also pre pretty old

21. 13:18

    SLO here um as you can see and uh um yeah the status of PR blah blah blah and then once it's mer mered approved and merged the B will remind the reviewer to to actually score it and once they score it they it it just gets counted but be big quick because uh in this case uh that loss was not particularly fast and we lost the the score I mean we actually give the score of One automatically here you can see uh

22. 13:59

    but I could have potentially gained more I'm interested I'm interested to see what changes did you actually make he only gave you oh it's it's like four changes yeah this is a smaller one we turned the bash script into the or I mean it's still bash script but we did a reproducible build with Source scan uh imageable contract was um pretty small one but very important for uh one of the

23. 14:30

    core contracts sure nice so one of the things that's different for when the last time you were on talking about racist loss is you had like a preset group of repositories that were allowed Now you kind of opened it up you want to talk a little bit about what's changed uh well the there has been a lot of different ideas that we were testing and uh different incentives and and and we also

24. 15:05

    tended reducted uh offline conference uh in y system in Bangkok um where we had amazing swag uh so if you missed it maybe there is an opportunity for you if if you're insisting and we will we'll see maybe we have some U swag today uh but uh uh the there were some challenges and uh takeaways on this process the developers system is pretty tough to reach out and uh uh I'm a developer as well you you guys as well

25. 15:49

    you know that we install all all sorts of software to prevent uh any sorts of advertisements happening in our lives we control the resource we consume uh at blockers um uh only you know reading The Trusted sources right uh so we try to reach out through different Ledger channels uh building our community slowly steadily uh and we're growing but at the same time we wish we can reach

26. 16:21

    out to uh bigger audience so we built this uh so the we did initi how it all started um I thought it would be a pretty simple uh process of okay everyone of us who are regularly contributing anyway will go and uh contribute to open source projects uh me mention the bot there and everyone else will see it and basically that way it would be organically growing and expanding the network of uh resour

27. 16:55

    laws um I would I would say it the pace of our contributions is not uh fast enough and we are not reaching the external ecosystems that that fast as we can in NE EOS system so a lot of contributions are within near EOS system and not living uh too widely uh of this ecosystem um then we uh try to engage with various um um conferences uh conference organizers and and we did a giveaway of rust tickets um to online conference

28. 17:35

    rusta um which was a pretty fun and it was very early um of the launch from Rus loss uh project by the way we only launched in July this year so right technically it's not even half a year yeah seems so much longer go than that yeah right and the since the time we also had this uh so we did giveaway which was uh fully um uh hosted on on the on on on the on near blockchain on chain right yeah yeah that's cool but I want to say that we do not really advertise and like uh throw

29. 18:16

    blockchain in the face of the users as you have seen it's a regular GitHub bot you don't use it account there like no near account needs to be uh provided uh to to be part of it um so our belief is that we will provide the utility and some value to the user first uh to the developers and then they will once they will need it they will use it so this is what what was happening with the giveaway uh to The Rustic kets we have our uh leaderboard

30. 18:49

    and the um all the details about the pool requests uh of your interactions with the bot GitHub bot recorded on chain um so it's a it's an application for those who are not familiar with the blockchain maybe hopefully joining us as well today um it's just an app um that is uh like a serverless function you can say and it collects the all the historical updates and those updates are how many score like what what was the pull request link uh score who gave the score and but

31. 19:29

    obviously who received the score um so all those details were living on chain and we could tap into it with different application so different application was just pulling the list from the um uh rour loss list uh from the rour loss application and uh randomly selecting uh weighted um list of winners so that was super simple to implement uh extremely transparent we run it once you can like it's it's it's recorded on chain you can see the transaction there

32. 20:10

    there was no other transactions there was just one execution and we went with that um so it's uh super fair and um clear rules for all the participants then in October we did uh Ros to Fest uh Ross mean r race loss uh October Fest so um also fun event where the participants collected the points over the whole months and then we distributed the uh 10K uh Budget Pool among the contributors based on their activity basically based on the rest uh Ross uh

33. 20:54

    um uh SLO points also Fair like fully transparent uh clear up front no strings attached um did executed and we had a pretty great feedback from the community who were um part of those contributors from what I've heard weren't even aware of the or weren't really counting on getting rewards they were doing doing their regular day-to-day job contributing to open source building what they care and use RAC loss um bot

34. 21:36

    and at the end of the month we just uh uh mentioned them uh in our um announcement and suddenly they got some money uh it was pretty pretty cool uh gift at the end of months so yeah sure I I'd love to Pivot off that point with just talked about and go back to like the intrinsic value or even the extrinsic value of application like race of floss um I got to imagine in designing and building this there's

35. 22:11

    probably a lot of back and forth of like how much does this become monetary how much is this just points what do we do with those points what are some of those discussions that are happening around racis law project yeah maybe even uh one step back like why why we were building it in the first place yes I'm I'm a developer and I really love some I I'm really into the open source uh world and I believe that

36. 22:40

    that's the way how we move the tech forward so um I'm a huge fan of Linux uh and all those open source um uh projects that are available to the whole community of the developers around the globee freely and uh I wanted to bring a bit more engagement in the process and also give back to the community uh of Open Source that near system has been building on top of for several years already um like Ras system

37. 23:21

    and GS system uh we have a lot of tooling that couldn't be have been possible without um compilers uh tooling for developers in those ecosystems so I wanted to find a way that how we would um fairly distribute the contributions and also make it a bit more fun uh we had some inspiration from projects like doinga in terms of gamification and just building like some uh engagement uh and uh competition a bit

38. 23:55

    um also my background uh as a software engineer was uh the competitive programming so I participated in a lot of uh competitions where you write some code you gain the the points and you throw away the code you never reuse it it's totally useless uh in terms of the uh outcomes I think this is mirrored with uh with hack FS a bit hackathons in a way but actually hackathons are much more like you can make it uh a continuous work you can

39. 24:37

    continue doing something with this competitive programming at yeah so with with and and there are still big communities uh of developers who after year still compete uh on those platforms sure because they love the competition vibe um and the leaderboards and I was thinking maybe we can tap into that Network as well and uh give people something to uh contribute to the like to to the to

40. 25:12

    something meaningful uh while still maintaining that leaderboard and comp competitiveness in their hearts so that's where it all started uh along the way we were also exploring the monetary incentives and like how we can distribute money and uh reward people for the um for the work uh that is still in the uh in the discussions and how to make it uh not really gameable uh but the

41. 25:51

    um I think the the main value in racist loss is not the the money part it's about the sense of community and the open source uh vibe in general and it's just adding on top of that uh some recognition and um a bit of fun and uh unusual um feeling of the of the process uh when when you contribute yeah yeah it feels like a little lower sorry a little like lower Stakes competitiveness right where

42. 26:29

    you know once I don't have to really be in there every day but I can be recognized for my my regular streaks and if I am someone who is motivated by that um that is reflected very much so in that leaderboard and you know like I am not on that leaderboard all I'm not contributing to any of those projects right now but as soon as you see that leaderboard the competitive side of me was like I need to I need to you know

43. 26:56

    get in there you start feeling a little bit of that f of like how do I get to become part of that so does that become the next challenge for race Sloss is like getting people to have that like initial like Taste of of you know getting a PR approved through racial loss and then building off of there the the opportunities are endless I would say uh even incl like including the blockchain direction including the AI

44. 27:26

    Direction and uh even just building the communities uh is as part of this uh movement uh so maybe it could transform the open source uh because lately it there there are a lot of um tough conversations happening inside open source communities um due to lack of funding um some Pol iCal drama and uh decision making and just lack of Maintenance uh of certain resources uh especially fundamental ones um we've seen some security uh challenges present being

45. 28:14

    presented there when the maintainers cannot maintain their projects anymore original maintainers and they give give access to someone else and someone else you never know what they do with the projects so um racist law could potentially uh solve some of the challenges with the incentives for the maintainers long term um so we we're still exploring the space and this is why I want

46. 28:43

    uh really to invite the community today to also uh share their thoughts uh what what would uh what would be your Ideal World uh is there something that racos loss you believe can help with in open source or otherwise um yeah definitely uh Post in the comments I think we see all of them in uh YouTube and X Twitter y right um so I think um yeah I think the gamification mechanic of it is really quite undervalued though as in with like

47. 29:28

    without incentive structure anyway um like I know I've played a bunch of mobile games in the past that have some score and you might just like think it's arbitrary right and it somewhat is because it's not tied to anything really um but I mean people play these games and and want to get higher in the ranks and higher for no specific reason and I think a lot of it is just seeing those points go up and and being higher than

48. 30:02

    than your friends and other contributors and that's where the the the community aspect comes in again is there a reputation piece that you guys are hoping to come out of this as well that hopefully I can show my sloth profile show that I'm a regular contributor here's the work that I've done uh you know obviously people have to score me right so it's not just about me putting blindly up a bunch of PRS is

49. 30:35

    that is that part of this all here too where like you brought up the thing of like the maintainers and then Bad actors coming in and doing that we actually saw that this year that actually led to a really serious vulnerability possibly and it luckily got got caught um before caused a lot of damage but is this something where you say this is a rep becomes a reputable person they've submitted you know PRS that have been

50. 30:59

    scored and all that stuff definitely we I've already heard so many nice ideas how people uh can use it and already saw some actually using the uh the profile uh as a as as a proof of their authenticity and also uh providing the context that is easier to adjust to even non- tech people uh so it's a people some of the folks used it as the um kind of resume um link uh for like HS in a way not necessarily I'm

51. 31:46

    not sure uh I think it it's it still summarizes the um the long-term contributions much better than than someone like a a hiring person who is just looking for an engineer with scans through your gith profile and will understand the taste of it um I think the the profile just is built upon like it's it's it's longer term and if if you if we will get it running for over a year this whole initiative res L I

52. 32:21

    believe we will gain the community of really um exemplary profile that people will share more in their networks and um and I'm on the friends as I said like it's it there are different applications I know that for some folks especially in their early careers the any um uh how's called um certificates from various corsera courses or anything like that is already a huge help uh Racor Sloss profile could

53. 33:02

    be even better uh indicator of the actual skill because like okay you you passed this the the course but can you actually contribute something meaningful right as a engineer day today who knows yeah I would love I'd love to see race of soft sort of become like the standard on a CV or resume I I think that would be a an awesome milestone instead of like attaching your your GitHub or or your LinkedIn or

54. 33:33

    whatever Lally just pull your link to race of sofs there or like embed your profile in the CV yeah I also think that something like this here A Tool like this is exciting and it should be exciting for especially younger developers because what you just said reminds me of like anytime I've tried to hire you know fresh out of college typee of developers right like fresh out of school and they're they're starting to now go into the professional world it is so

55. 34:06

    different to uh actually like ship real production code than it is to do your schoolwork and all the stuff that you did in school and everything else doesn't always translate back and that like that Gap is sometimes bigger than people realize and so having the ability to you know not only do some of the work but then show that like hey I've done actual prodection level work I see what goes into a real PR I've proven myself is a

56. 34:36

    much more attractive benefit because I mean I know just from personal experience I have hired some very intelligent developers who really struggled working in a production environment because they just weren't used to uh what that looked like so I think this could really be a nice onboarding as well at some point for younger developers too makes all sense and I said as I said it's um it's all permissionless uh and you you you can come up with uh your own

57. 35:10

    applications and your own usage um and that would be a lot of fun to see and also bring the feedback to us if if you miss something if if we miss something and uh uh we can do better uh to support you um we have telegram chats we have a Twitter account just mention us there Reddit is something that we are building the community around uh these days as well so post there um yeah do uh let's I I I do have a

58. 35:47

    couple of uh interesting topics to talk but I also want to invite uh community members uh to the stage do we have someone to to bring up yeah we we can bring up whomever we want uh who do you want to bring up right now I know maybe you can uh you can post in the comments if you want to uh in the in the chat in the comment section if you want to be part of the stage here we Go's the there we go hey hey

59. 36:30

    hey man yes appreciate the festive festiveness very nice amazing yeah so let me probably introduce your tour even though he prefers to go with Anonymous Santa Claus today probably uh you you you can spot him on Race SL but I will not name him his username um but fine we can we can we can share my username it's not a big deal yeah uh Arthur actually contributes a lot to the racis loss itself so he's a main developer of the bot and the

60. 37:16

    infrastructure the whole implementation basically um and um the man who stands behind the reason why GitHub band race of Sloss because I asked yeah well let's talk a little about that I know you guys had a little trouble at getting that the bot going what happened there yeah I've not heard this basically we decided that we want to have first October event and to be like hob and we research and did the past hober fast events

61. 37:58

    and saw some backl that U small value contributions were happening and the maintainers were annoyed by some peoples that coming and do basically uh zero scorp and tried to like overwhelm them uh and so October first one later on uh asked the repositories that are interesting to participate to put a hashtag basically open to oober Fest or something like that uh but well we were not that uh hyp

62. 38:35

    and uh no one knows about us so we decided to be also a proactive and just asked uh just to ask uh repositories huge repositories that that are part of dependencies of near uh we just scrapped all our Caro rust stack near uh javascripts that we use and we just part that huge list filterate it a bit that active repositories and decided so let's ask the the repositories if they don't

63. 39:11

    mind us to add them and but we couldn't find a way proper way to uh to communicate with them right it's hard to do so and we thought what's the best way to do that is probably create an issue for reposition and that's what happened we like started to like uh like a DAT 30 to 50 reports to like post issues there and ask people and some people get annoyed basically by that that we like try to advertise our

64. 39:45

    product in like we probably didn't found the proper like communication maybe if we would communicate better it would go easier on us uh but uh as we understood some people just reported us to the GitHub and they just wiped Us in the middle of hober Fest and r oober fest we just started and got wiped on like day one or day two of Roser after we say that we hey hey guys go use it uh we started and yeah we had

65. 40:23

    we had a bit of discussion with GI Hub team luckily with we got un B and we could medicate it because we created separate account and moved all our activi there for a while but but basically yeah we we wanted to prevent one spam issue by creating another one yeah and as as as arur mentioned it it hit us hard the second day after we kind of officially started so the October starts on the 1 of October and second of o we find ourselves in the

66. 40:58

    station of all our posts are kind of deleted like they're not visible anymore they're Shadow band um and we do not obviously receive any notifications from the users when they ping us from the pull requests and we even if we would re well we actually received them but they we were very limited in in the number of requests we could do and even if we would reply to them they wouldn't see

67. 41:22

    our response so we had to have a around that's basically kind of funny because you still can create PRS and issues to any rapper you want and you can contribute but no one sees it and if you merge the pr it says like hey ACC cun merge the PR but when you click on me it's like account no who is yeah that's how we learn how GitHub B works and how funny it could look like from the external Observer

68. 41:57

    but but we had a we had also a second bun uh a few days few weeks ago um but this time it was like a Miss to HUB probably they had they have a script that tries to find the spam uh and they so that we are spammy uh but we just like Ty and less in the half of the day we got on BS uh this time it was like not intentional yeah yeah yeah s is a bit under the under the wall yeah it's interesting I wonder if a company like GitHub though

69. 42:45

    sees it's not competitive obviously with GitHub but I could see them wanting to do something similar to this like of what you're doing here of being able to reward repositories and things like that like is that so there probably is I I don't know if the purpose you guys aren't big enough to there really on their radar of trying to figure that out but I could see that coming to become

70. 43:09

    part of that is there a process somewhere around this where if GitHub were to fully just block you that you can still kind of continue with the project in some way we can obviously do it outside of GitHub it would be not as nice uh as we wish and so far even even with when they banned us we still had the access to Notifications uh so we could still implement the the the rest of the flow we just w't be able to respond on GitHub

71. 43:44

    and it would be a bit of a uh like we would we would ask users to post a bit more details about how what are the next steps the maintainer should do uh and I think that would be a bit more more uh involved at the same time uh it like it could be completely outside of the GitHub and to be honest I would say that we are doing a favor to GitHub with the like just working for free uh engaging the developers so I yeah it seems like

72. 44:18

    it would push more traffic to GitHub then retract and exactly yeah so if if anyone has the connections with with GitHub teams let us know maybe we can get a better partnership and collaboration with them um do they not have their own uh do they not have their own repos you should go ahead and open an issue there you can get in contact might have the same result though poke the bear a little bit it's funny when developers uh do do business development this is what we

73. 44:59

    get getting banned by Gil I'm glad it's all good now though have you uh have you put any sort of thought or like mitigations in in place for the future or you you're doing anything else differently so uh to avoid getting any like funds in the future or or restrictions I don't think there is any way like besides maybe being proactive and reaching out to some partner like for partnership uh um discussions I think we are in a weak position here I would say

74. 45:39

    like if someone just uh uh reports our messages to GitHub and their moderator team decides that it's uh it's spam we go we go ban um but I really so this the this is a challenge like we we are fighting for open source and we are getting um dismissed sometimes I must say that even though we like in Weak position we still like can probably work it out because our our interactions is

75. 46:10

    like user first so user toing us it's not like we just came and spam right the user invited us so I think it's like one of the point that that can save us not save us but it's like a why we are not spamming because it's like not we decided to address some PR but the user itself yeah but also like just to reiterate our goals are not to spam our goals are not to um um detract from the

76. 46:45

    open source Community um we like our initial Mission and it remains to be is give back and uh um it starts with like from the near perspective uh as I mentioned near protocol has been built on like probably thousands of dependencies out there uh and uh there are plenty of project that we want to uh give back it just we didn't find the organic way of uh or well fast organic way to reach out to

77. 47:22

    them and actually offer something uh if we just go and randomly um message the person giv giv them money it's also going to be yeah weird and uh yeah like those air drops are perceived as something really bad so that was actually going to be my next question was about that part of it of where you start to if you have let's say outside groups I want to further incentivize people who are building in

78. 47:54

    here is there a way for a project to come in and use the data from race of Sloss to reward them or is it because it's purely just on GitHub right now like there's no way to actually air drop people or anything else like that it's more or less you'd have to actually reach out for a rewarding as I said we currently do not push people towards using the blockchain uh you can still air drop them based on their GitHub profiles um you could have

79. 48:28

    done that without rour loss but with rour loss what we uh internally have is like definitely the community of people who care and who um pay bit more attention to the to the open source and the currently near ecosystem um so and and what I also want to say that you can build a totally uh Standalone experience based on the data from the racus loss contract on near and basically on board and like offer people to opt into something based

80. 49:19

    on their current uh leaderboard scores whatnot uh so it's a totally valid use case and it was designed from the GetGo to be that like allow anyone to extend the platform to build their own experiences um and and just be part of it as I said like this uh uh um giveaway of rust tickets right basically it was a completely separate uh project it could have been built by a still separate team

81. 49:59

    and the tickets were kind of the uh Ming drops right right makes sense yes permissionless by by default really um it'd be interested to see if anyone does like build anything on on top of it or any projects air drop sloth Point holders in the future yeah for sure yeah we're exploring that that direction but also I don't want to as I said to to to to to to sound like we are doing another link drop or something like that uh I really want to be organic

82. 50:44

    and and useful consum so it's not uh inflated and not uh abused at least before we know how to properly sure yeah no that that makes sense uh going forward and from here this I'm sure you guys have a lot of ideas what does 2025 look like for a race of SLO I would say the very first one the the the the the B that we are making is the organic growth and hopefully um viral distribution and like viral

83. 51:34

    adoption of resource loss in bigger open source Community um but to do that we have various ideas including attending some conferences and sending some swag uh making some fun events um basically building the building communities of people in in the hope that uh that is something that they need uh and and collect feedback um from you all that's why we also created the uh short survey and

84. 52:11

    that we will share after the call today um all the uh questions are optional so you can skip something that you feel like too much uh to you know to unpack uh but still please fill out at least the ones that you have you know immediately recognize and easy to answer and that would be very helpful for us to understand uh what drives you if you're um an active uh resource loss member or

85. 52:42

    what's not enough for you um at the current stage what would drive you for you what we can help with ideas yeah uh it could be I don't know integration with I know Dogecoin hopefully not guys um but I I hope that uh I really want to to to make some some mechanisms uh in in race of slots that would uh make it engaging and fun um and just friendly uh it's not about um you know earning your Lambo uh kind of project right it's it's uh open

86. 53:43

    source has different values and open source is long-term contribution to the um the sustainable World in my view yeah and um I really hope we can potentially build some sustainable economy over there maybe through race of Sloss or somehow facilitated through it um to join the communities um and uh let's build it together that's kind of the the general mood for 2025 I would say yeah not one one person job I think we built

87. 54:23

    a pretty good foundation there um arur uh GB Alex Sasha Paula uh myself we have Prett strong team behind it um that that we that allowed us to deliver it in very short time uh but then to um to identify the best um Direction uh going forward we we need the community uh we need to know what's what's on their minds what's on your mind what's your mind uh what's in your mind Owen um my mind is pretty blank after a day

88. 55:15

    of uh of of writing but yeah I think I think people should join up I know I've participated and it it's fun to do and I like the competitive nature sometimes though I'm switching between tasks and I don't get don't get the opportunity to contribute and then I know I'm nowhere going to be nowhere near the top of the leaderboard so I'm like what is what is the point so maybe there needs to be

89. 55:46

    like a a noob leaderboard and like uh I must say that some of the some of the folks were totally surprised to to be at the top they were just contributing as usual and then when we once we we announced some of the you know changes in the leaderboard every other week and we were mentioning them and they were like wow how did that happen so you know Owen it it may start as a storm for you

90. 56:18

    and then you will find yourself at the top but uh true yeah and sorry have you do you have any anyone on your team who is like has experience with like proper marketing and and growth and like sort of go to market strategies um because from what you're saying the the team sounds really quite developer uh developer intense and heavy so maybe you need need to bring some one in who could find like how to accelerate it maybe it like it might not it may be

91. 57:04

    in organic uh which you're not really looking for but it can help it get to a place where then there's enough attention around it where it can grow more organically you're you're totally F right but at the same time I want to say that we have a tough a tough uh audience here developers and marketing to developers is is is really hard there's a lot of competition for the attention

92. 57:33

    of developers know it's all of my job Frameworks uh blockchains AI uh Hy wordss RAC of loss is probably not on the list for now um even open source struggle so we need to recognize the fact that the there is a challenge in open source and that is something that uh resour loss is kind of uh trying to in a way address um yeah um we definitely need to to talk more about it in in the in the wild and uh just bring more people aware of the problem and the current solution we have

93. 58:16

    here nice Arthur you wanted to say something yeah yeah I uh when we was discussing about 1 to 20 25 would be I want to say that it would be nice it would become like something like lead Cod but by for the world of the open source so basically like for corporations sometimes uh uh using cleat code to like uh to evaluate person skills on the first stage it would be also awesome that we were something like that for

94. 58:50

    open source yeah that's what I've heard as a huge interest from Founders and and some HRS when I was mentioning race of slots they were like so can we just go to the profile and pick the you know top 10 people and uh you know uh be done with our hiring I'm like sure that's also the way and that's what has been happening with the competitive programming uh contests also like every other months there was like a huge competition and the uh top of the list

95. 59:24

    was uh getting uh reached out by the uh big corpse U at least back in the day it was pretty popular I'm not sure how it is these days yeah I mean I think it makes a lot of sense and I'm sure as time goes on and more people use this that more ideas will come around I mean again just just thinking about like previous experiences right where even at your business right having it almost competitive

96. 59:56

    to your employees of being able to earn points on top of everything else right they're getting paid a salary everything but now you as a small community within your own team in your own company could have a way to get points and you know especially if your stuff is already open source I think that's really interesting seeing who cares about your product you know who are those people who maybe should be compensated and brought in because they're actually got regularly

97. 1:00:20

    contributing uh a lot of a lot of Discovery could probably come from this uh which I think is interesting yeah yeah speaking of that on on that topic and also the comment from Owen uh the concern being uh not reaching the top of the leader board we are thinking about maybe having some thematic uh Project Specific Community specific uh leaderboards uh as such Dev R could near Dev R could be just one of the leader board and then uh there will be a friendly competition between just folks

98. 1:01:00

    who the one at the the one at the bottom gets uh gets fired each month I hope we will not get into that stage to be honest uh it's not the tool for um um punishment it's a tool for recognition and um celebrating the success makesense and uh this this uh currently shared uh part of the slide it's just like yeah that's basically our whole uh idea and Mission to somehow make sure that all this pyramid is still operate operational and we have

99. 1:01:44

    the right people at the right places with the right uh uh state of mind uh supporting the greater open source ecosystem yeah oh that that's awesome and I also brought this up I wanted to make sure people saw they want to submit their own project they can do that right from your site here looks like you just kind of uh open up the issue actually not uh starting uh early this month the race of SLO is open to

100. 1:02:16

     any project out there so you you just go to any uh open source uh project if especially like if if you are buting to to any open source project you create no pull request you mention the bot no registration is needed no pre-registration of yourself no pre-registration of the project is needed you just message the bot everything else will be communicated in in the message so it should be super yeah you guys had a nice tweet about it

101. 1:02:46

     here looks like nice well awesome um anything you guys want to wrap up on I mean there's so much stuff here I think it's going to be exciting 2025 risk loss everything else but uh any last words contribute to open source I like it I like it that's scared me a little bit then yes I will I will do it see you next year awesome awesome well thank you guys so much for for coming on and and showing all the

102. 1:03:28

     progress you've made uh again I think this is a wonderful tool and we want to keep highlighting it and go contribute if you're doing the work anyways might as well get rewarded so uh awesome stuff yeah Christmas time is the best for exploring the open source and like building trying out things and who knows maybe soing some small at least items absolutely before CH absolutely absolutely awesome stuff again I appreciate you guys coming on talking about this and uh have a wonderful

103. 1:04:01

     holiday thanks bye bye uh oh and wrapping up here we're at the end of the year how are you feeling it's been a it's been a long year but eventful A lot happened in the near ecosystem and wider life uh I think yeah a lot of people are going to be taking some time off now to sit back relax eat and know I'm going to be eating a load um but I mean I'm still going to be in and around uh developing

104. 1:04:42

     some stuff and answering questions I think as well so yeah if if you're looking to build on on there or join the community we're we're always around sometimes even even in the high holidays absolutely yeah there that's a great Point there's plenty of stuff if you want to keep building let me uh bring up our our usual thing here uh so down below if you want to subscribe obvious

105. 1:05:12

     to our newsletter that Owen curates each and every single week um which is all the great Dev stuff that's happening here in the near ecosystem uh get started at dev. n.org if you want to start building right away uh again you know like lad said this is a great time during the things slow down try something new uh get involved in different communities just see what's out there great ATT time to do that there will be people around if you need

106. 1:05:35

     help and you need support uh so definitely don't feel like you're going to be on your own we really encourage that uh and then for this show so next week uh because of the holiday week and everything else uh we're going to have a clip show so uh we'll just you know we'll still broadcast at the same time kind of a recap of the Year some of the highlights uh coming down from all the

107. 1:06:00

     great episodes this was episode 32 so we know we've we've had 32 episodes now of this which is pretty awesome uh so it's really been uh an eventful year for for devhub for the near ecosystem and so we want to just kind of end on that and lead into some excitement going into the new year so uh I'm excited why you most why you most excited for 2025 you know uh I know the hype is right now obviously still everything pointing towards the AI stuff but I am so

108. 1:06:36

     impressed and interested of like what comes from the intents uh I think building with intents is going to be really really interesting uh the idea of really being able to replace a central exchange by doing this and having these opportunities is really in interesting to me it's part of that when we talked about like uh you know having a new kind of financial opportunities for people to be able to actually do this and with intents is super compelling so yes the

109. 1:07:10

     ASF will be there I think the ASF will be part of all this um there'll be probably some really great stuff coming out of there but I think like in the more immediate future definitely seeing what people build on top of intense is really interesting to me how about yourself i' would say products like actual applications that are building I know a few were like on the run up to launch and we've come out with a fair bit of like

110. 1:07:40

     Tech recently um namely like chain signatures uh I don't know was that like when did it launch to main now was it like six months ago May no further further before that um but it obviously takes these teams time to build this stuff and on on top of the the the AI narrative and hype as well so I think I'm really excited to just see these projects come to fruition and have something I can properly like interact

111. 1:08:16

     with yeah that's what I'm most excited about and I think with all this incubation of these projects uh we could really have a vibrant ecosystem here in in 2025 yeah uh I love it yeah products all the way down I mean that that's the next stage here uh is Now is really getting those products out the door and I'm I'm excited to see see what comes with that well awesome um we I really I want

112. 1:08:48

     to make sure I say thank you to everyone who has been watching over time it's your first episode you've been here since the beginning uh this has really been an exciting time for for Dev Hub uh for Owen and I we've been very grateful for you know all the different audience interaction and everything else uh again we will continue to broadcast uh we have some really interesting stuff I think

113. 1:09:12

     coming the New Year too with some show formats everything else so stay tuned uh it's going to be a lot more great stuff to come not just uh the you know what you've been seeing already but we'll keep doing devhub live each week uh any last words Owen as always I think you summed it up nicely so right nothing else except Mary marry Nas yes Mary Nas and uh you know everyone enjoy some time off if you're able to take it and uh we will see you

114. 1:09:43

     soon thanks everyone bye bye by bye what