NEARCON 2022 | Nightshade Stage - Day 2

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1. 0:01

   good morning everyone welcome to day two of nerdcon and the nightshade stage we have plenty of great content for you today here additionally please go and check out all of the booths the gamers lounge and today is the launch of sweatcoin so don't forget to get those steps in throughout the day and now early morning for regulatory and compliance topic but here we are we have a panel of regulatory and compliance crypto legal eagles on what not to do

2. 0:33

   and our moderator for today is mark goldage from proximity that vacuum is uh can you hear me okay wonderful well i don't know about you guys but i'm really excited for this panel we have some very distinguished crypto lawyers here we have christian hits from digital sherpas we have josh clayman from link ladders we have stephen paley from brown rudnick now and we have bert stemler from the open web collective as you can see we're going to talk today

3. 1:08

   a little bit about regulatory and compliance issues and what not to do what i'll say first is although we will talk a little bit about what not to do there's a disclaimer that although we're all lawyers we're not your lawyers so it's not legal advice but let's have some fun and talk about some pretty interesting issues first um that are throughout crypto industry right now and then we can move on to some some of those open-ended questions um that i know the builders are

4. 1:37

   interested in so you know probably the most interesting regulatory development of the last few months was the listing of tornado cash on the sdn list by ofac um you know this really had a big impact on the crypto industry in general and i'm wondering um what the thoughts of this panel are on that um and you know what are some of the implications of the tornado cache being listed and in particular what was different about this was that the smart

5. 2:08

   contract itself and not just wallets were listed on the sdn list so uh i'll start with you stephen on on your thoughts about this this development and then see what the rest of the panel is thinking as well i mean i'm not incredibly surprised i think that um ofac looked at this um looked at the use of tornado cash and um undertook its analysis from that basically looked at it and thought this

6. 2:40

   is something that's being used by north korea to um launder money uh we're going to we're going to list it and the thing that's interesting about it of course is we know that bitcoin addresses have been listed in the past this this is different than a bitcoin address in that it's not static right it's dynamic it can perform functions so i think the interesting question will be i know that there are some challenges in the offing whether or not listing a piece of software as opposed to a

7. 3:10

   particular wallet address or a particular personal instrumentality is within the remit of ofac's statutory authority tbd but i think that's one of the issues that we're going to see litigated um in the future that's great now josh um for you you know i'm wondering do you think that ofac when they listed the underlying smart contract here in the tornado cache um the tornado cash smart contract that that was intentional or or do you think that this was a matter of the regulators not being educated on

8. 3:45

   what exactly they were doing in the past we've had as as steven mentioned we've had uh wallets bitcoin wallets and various different types of wallets being listed on sdn but certainly not underlying smart contracts was this was this intentional so i don't know whether it was intentional i mean it's anyone's guess unless you're at olfac i do think though that regulators are in a tough position with this right because if you look i mean the case that coinbase is funding right the way they've characterized it

9. 4:15

   is look this having the smart contract be sanctioned you know it's not a person it's not property right so how can you do this well if you look at what the sec has done in the past moving like changing to a different regulator if you think back to ether delta right in that instance they actually had an enforcement action against the writer of the smart contract zachary coburn right so here

10. 4:39

    i mean i can see why it could be that they don't understand but it could also be i mean just to take the opposite position to say like why are you doing this the the basically the benefits of privacy don't outweigh the possibility that you're laundering money or financing terrorists and we just want this thing gone right so i think there's lots of different ways that it you could analyze it right and it might be case the case that they also knew that there's no one to really challenge this in the case of the

11. 5:10

    underlying smart contract and and to see whether uh it chills the industry um so i think that that's that's an issue that we've we've all been wondering um i don't think anyone really knows except for those working with the regulators and ofac itself uh whether it was intentional or not but you know i'm wondering christian your thoughts on that it was not intentional it was a mistake

12. 5:34

    um it is the challenge as you mentioned that if you do not know who have has written or has placed the contract it is the law that you have to go after this person who has written the contract and software never can be liable on on things that's been done with that so you're not going to sue a car company because the robber used the car so and this was a mistake and uh can be corrected all right well i guess we'll find out because um i'm sure

13. 6:12

    so you're all aware coinbase is funding a litigation to challenge this particular action so i guess we'll find out if it was a mistake or not depending on the defense i think basically if we talk about education and shared domain knowledge about crypto and how we can regulate something there is still a piece missing that on on the regulator side there is knowledge but it is not widespread and

14. 6:46

    routines that cope for existing regulation topics are not coping with uh crypto topics so they're there the best answer is to go with with with education yeah on the other hand people who write contracts on on the developer side they need to think that it's not a free market they need to think someday there will be a regulation and they have to keep in mind that regulation will take place and for for creators this is a very very big message

15. 7:25

    think of building blocks that brings rules into your contracts right and so you know you raise a great point i mean whether or not it's intentional just setting that aside i think it is an opportunity for education and policy work to be done which i think we probably all agree is is much needed uh bert working in the house um i'm wondering what your thoughts are about the implications of of this particular action um on projects both

16. 7:56

    in the united states and abroad and um you know what international crypto companies should be thinking about do they need u.s council and what are projects um considering now that this has has occurred sure uh yeah i do think it it impacts the whole um the whole industry and projects whether they're us or or non-us and um you know it's it's one of those things as you mentioned there's just a

17. 8:27

    a a rippling chilling effect that goes through uh all projects and uh it really uh you know it has the intended effect uh of of shutting it down whether they knew that they were stepping out of line or it was very intentional and they knew exactly what they were doing uh and so it it is a it's a it's one of those gray areas and i think we all know that that crypto is extremely dynamic and uh you know uh just developing

18. 9:07

    a on a day-to-day basis so as as we think about how to advise projects you know my view is you you have to come at it from a risk management point of view that your your council is your tool to to manage risk and you know saying whether it's explicitly right or explicitly wrong to interact with a certain smart contract or an account that's so many steps removed from a smart contract

19. 9:44

    is is really up to the user in the project and a real weighing of of the risk that people are willing to assume so i i do think it's it's important to to use counsel and to use you know a lot of younger projects don't have in-house counsel and so they rely on outside counsel but to help them weigh the risk and to help them you know make a decision because the last thing that we want as an industry is to

20. 10:22

    avoid you know to have projects fully put on the brakes because they are uncertain about what to do so you know we encourage them to to move forward and to build and to you know try to use their council as a as a risk mitigation sort of strategy i wanted to add something to that which is that i mean there's a saying that lawyers have which is bad facts make bad law and the issue here it's actually not the first time in crypto we've seen

21. 11:00

    bad facts bitcoin initially was presented as something that could only be used by criminals um and it's become and obviously that's not true its use has become normalized it's not illegal and i think that's going to be the same challenge with placing uh software on the stn list i do believe it was completely deliberate and intentional ofac is staffed by people who are smart they understand crypto the question will

22. 11:23

    be in the litigation reframing it and saying no no no you don't understand this is neutral technology what you're doing is you're censoring speech and ofac is going to come back and it's going to say north korea terrorism terrorism terrorism so they're going to be conflicting narratives but again i don't think it's not like all hope is lost and this is not the first time as an industry that we faced this issue and

23. 11:45

    josh i'm sorry i i stepped on you you're about to speak no no no not at all no i agree with what you said i also think you know thinking forward about okay say this stays in place right say the lawsuit's unsuccessful i mean what other steps could be developed so that this is workable i mean if someone dusts you what do you do like i've heard suggestions about perhaps creating a burn wallet or something like that so you can get rid of that but we need solutions and i think that's one

24. 12:15

    of the the challenges is and it's a challenge for regulators and it's a challenge for the industry the more enforcement regulation by enforcement you have the more places where it just doesn't line up at the end and you need a path forward so for builders who are in their audience who may be running front ends or they have a part of the call that they're working on and they're going to need

25. 12:39

    some type of a front end for users to actually interact with it what should they be thinking about and you know is there a danger here of over compliance or is the danger under compliance and really as outside counsel you know how do you look at that josh um and then and then we can see what the the inside council thought is with chris so in general and i think this might not always be the most popular thing to say but i think and i i do think that this

26. 13:10

    plays into the whole ofac ruling as well is projects need to do kycaml on users they have to right and it's coming from multiple direct directions they should be doing that i believe i know it's an unpopular view to many but i think that that's an important step to build in that capability i do think that sometimes may help you avoid some of the problems down the line or i mean the alternative is this

27. 13:36

    don't build a front end that's the point of regulatory risk and failure build a protocol deploy it let other people build the front end build the front end it's kind of it's a risk management question create an sdk create create an api create software that someone can just have on their phone if you do that and there's no centralized database then you're just putting up software on

28. 13:59

    github there's a financial implication obviously but if you want to build something that's quote unquote truly decentralized do that don't have a front end i will tell you um without going into too much detail regulators in the united states are skeptical of the idea well i just i happen to deploy this protocol and i just happen to have this front end and they take the view the ones that i've spoken with in the enforcement context seem to take the

29. 14:30

    view that the front end is even if the protocol is on the blockchain they see the front end in some cases as being an exchange as that term is defined under um the uh the exchange act so if you want to be decentralized be decentralized i know that i know that some argue that um front ends are just speech front ends aren't actually interacting with the underlying protocol i i personally think that um

30. 14:55

    a decentralized front end is the technological grail and that for any builders in the room who can come up with that that is the grail that this uh this industry needs right now what's your thought chris we talk about different speeds if you look at mika as a regulatory framework for europe this took 10 years to get ready for launch and will be in in power if everything goes well in 2024.

31. 15:29

    uh in crypto one year is ten years so it's a quite different speed and so for for for builders um you definitely not over regulated and should not be over regulated but keep on doing the stuff and bring it to production but keep also in mind that you need to think about regulatory frameworks you need to think about how can i build in regulatory rules also if they are not there and skipping

32. 16:08

    these thoughts is is a big failure because afterwards it's difficult to to fix the architecture to uh to bring in the regulatory um regulatory duties as they occur as early as possible as early as possible yeah that makes sense uh you know and another hot topic that you know i think is pretty interesting that's happened in in the industry recently is we've we've seen a slew of insider trading cases um this is

33. 16:41

    uh i think the first one was uh earlier in the summer with openc and then there was one more recently with coinbase dealing with employees who used what we refer to as mnpi and trading on that information or sharing that information i i saw in the news the other day that uh one of the defendants in the coinbase case um just pled guilty and you know i'm wondering what the panel thinks about the implications of this and then

34. 17:14

    um with regard to insider trading in crypto and then what you counsel your clients and how you counsel them on best practices with regard to mnpi and for for the audience here if one of you wants to take the lead on what mnpi is it's material non-public information right so it's things that you know about what's going on that the public doesn't know and that could have an effect on their

35. 17:44

    willingness to invest or purchase or or move forward it's material so it's not just something minor and so i mean i deal with this frequently with clients what's interesting about the coinbase insider trading case is that the concept of trading on insider trade um inside information is comes out of securities laws so we have clients who the position that they're taking and hopefully it's correct is that they're not creating security so the issue is if you create an insider trading policy what are you creating that for my view

36. 18:17

    is that it's unethical and it's wrong to use information that you have about an asset that is material that is significant to your advantage if you're going to be if you're going to be distributing it for sale on secondary markets so there's an ethics issue in the united states too even if something isn't a security the question is is it wire fraud and that's what the prosecution

37. 18:41

    is going after these folks at coinbase force so my view is um i mean taking myself as an example i don't actively trade crypto and one of the reasons i don't do it is because i know too much and i would never want someone to accuse me of trading on information that i've gotten from a client i think you have to look at it both from a straight legal standpoint and you also have to look at it from an ethical standpoint you know that it's wrong to use material inside information

38. 19:04

    that you have to trade against the public and i think that it's worth having a policy that reflects that whether or not your assets are securities or commodities or something else and i think that's actually what the gentleman who pled guilty said essentially he he pled guilty to wire fraud right but he said i knew what i was doing was wrong essentially i still don't think it was a security

39. 19:28

    that's what he said um paraphrasing but but yeah and the open seat cases has shown it doesn't need to be a security they don't need to allege it of course it's interesting that they're styling it as insider trading yeah when that's very securities law linked phrase but i think in terms of what for clients what i often advise again not legal advice but is if you have material non-public information right say you know something's gonna happen a big project say you are hypothetically a

40. 20:00

    swiss foundation right and you have to give grants to different folks and you know who you're going to give grants to batching that communication so it's not done with a view to pumping the price or to having an effect just having regular batched communications just like a public company in many ways i think that that is that's an important step um and really monitoring your your colleagues your employees having people be educated about this having potentially quiet periods if you're

41. 20:32

    doing a capital raise because think about it the the social media it's everywhere right and there are things that you may be very excited about something that's going to happen and it's good to get it out there but you have to be careful with that with not only what you're doing behind the scenes like are you going to do a big purchase a big sale right because you know something's happening but also just making sure that what you're doing

42. 20:56

    is not potentially you know trying to move the market and now you're seeing that exchanges are um they're they're telling the public when a new listing's coming ahead of time right and do we think that that has to do with insider trading concerns me i think it will i i would say it would have to be case by case um but i think if they put it out there then they themselves can trade right right so it

43. 21:28

    doesn't become insider trading at that point because you've disclosed that this is going to happen everybody's theoretically on level playing field so i mean it it does seem like a good move to me i'm just going gonna add uh i think the coinbase case is really interesting because it uh it gives us a little window into what the sec's priorities are in the sense that i know they've been consistent in saying we're going to stamp out fraud where we see it um you know and i think this is one of those

44. 22:01

    cases but then as you know one of the big issues that's in front of the crypto community is is it a security is it not a security so are these unregistered securities um you know and the the sec has also been really steadfast in their thoughts on that too that many of these uh cryptos are securities um but that just sort of is is noted in the case uh and it says oh nine of these 21 i think uh tokens are securities uh and

45. 22:40

    you know they didn't rush out and do nine enforcement actions against those protocols or coinbase right right and and likewise they keep threatening exchanges saying you know you're you're listing unregistered securities but right they haven't you know really acted on that in a in a in a really uh you know significant way but so they just underlying the case is this this claim that their securities and um

46. 23:15

    and that they base their claim on that but really what they're they're shooting for in the first instance is is fraud which is is puzzling because most of the conversation is around um what is a security and what's not but crypt i mean the sec isn't out there filing thousands of enforcement actions against uh protocols for unregistered securities maybe they maybe they will but it doesn't seem like it's at the top of the list it's just in their talking points constantly

47. 23:48

    yeah that's a great point i mean uh yeah the question is to how the sec is going about this they're attempting to set a precedent um for these particular um tokens um without setting precedent right and doing it in maybe a persuasive way and without having an actual defendant that's going to challenge it so um it's sort of similar to the ofac sdn listing in a way to get around you know attacking these things head on i think i mean i think it's strategically brilliant of them

48. 24:21

    i i think if who is going to want to go against i think it was said a few years ago coinbase has a four billion dollar war chest for regulatory defense right all the sec has to show is that one token was a security in order for a trading platform to have been violating you know the rules so i think to the extent that they can get it done by chipping away at perhaps um less well-funded defendants and doing it indirectly i think

49. 24:53

    ultimately the bigger fish for them is to go after the platforms but they're setting it up i mean it's interesting but as a legal matter if there's a finding in the in the wire fraud case that one of the assets is is a security that finally won't be binding against coinbase so there's some um there's a i'm going to give you a little uh a little uh legal jargon it's con it's called non-mutual offensive collaterals stop all basically if the sec were to go after coinbase it

50. 25:24

    would not be able to use a finding in the wire fraud case against coinbase because coinbase isn't a party to that case so they could theoretically have to litigate it multiple times but it's a i'm sure it's a deliberate risk because they'll be able to at least be able to show it to a judge and the judge might say that they're ignoring it uh but you know it's hard to get a once you let it pig into the jury box it's hard to get this it's hard to get the smell out

51. 25:48

    right that's another another little legal aphorism i'll zip it after this you know but i i do think um it's i think there are tons and tons of enforcement actions and investigative subpoenas that are out there including relating to the that case so i think we may see it coming in a lot of different ways yeah chris internationally what are some you know upcoming laws and regulations

52. 26:19

    mika included that the builders in the room should be thinking about how how early should uh crypto companies be engaging council and you know what's going to hit the industry well in europe we're very happy end of july that mika come to a stage where it's ready to launch so that these processes take so long time and uh it's it's incredible to see um how many people are talking to the same topic how to to get these laws uh lost on

53. 26:59

    um the question what is the security what is not a security starts there when a normal governance token can become a security and the other way around so coins can change their role and how can you regulate this so it is a moving target then and i i think as as it will launch and get enforced by using the technology a lot will be regulated regulated by the market so the mar and when the market kicks in a regulation

54. 27:39

    is much much easier than taking nowadays rules and apply them to a technology which is completely decentralized worldwide decentralized then we have also to to tackle the oracle problem so a contract is deployed worldwide but locally law needs to be enforced and applied i think there are a very there is a huge journey for in front of us and it starts with education it starts with a shared domain knowledge that everybody knows it's not evil everybody knows you need to to uh

55. 28:18

    to treat this serious not that's not that's not a game and this is now changing in in the minds of of people and things like mika is a very very good first step that it um to be there and when we look at different countries how far they are i would say switzerland is a little bit a pioneer and we are proud of that but other countries are far behind they have to catch up and it's not done by doing lots of law enforcement stuff it's done by educate

56. 29:03

    regulate and get the process done so we have about a minute or two left any closing statements for the audience anything that they they should know any um any advice that's not legal advice that you want to share i mean i i would i would offer this um law and technology have have a long history of interconnection we wouldn't have had copyright laws if we didn't have the printing press but the printing press came first right um so i think it's the same here one of

57. 29:36

    the frustrations will be is that law comes after i would say you know be smart build uh get advice from people who are smart but part of part of creating new technology is accepting a certain amount of risk there's no way to completely de-risk a project if you do that you won't be able to build anything great i would say just to builders out there you may have incredibly good intentions for your technology but it's really important still to consider the legal risks

58. 30:08

    because there are many laws out there including you know u.s laws but also laws of other jurisdictions that it doesn't matter if you're not located in the u.s and it doesn't matter if you didn't have the intention to do something bad there is no mental component of intention required in many securities laws and other types of laws and for some violations there can be criminal penalties

59. 30:34

    of different types of laws so i would just say keep building you know but also you know be careful consult lawyers and and just yeah well we're all lucky to um have uh lawyers in the trenches fighting for the industry like yourselves and i want to thank all of you for joining this panel thank you thanks mark thank you thank you for this very insightful panel and non-legal advice if you've just joined welcome we still

60. 31:18

    have a few sessions going on i see some of you already have your sweat coin t-shirts be ready to walk around and use the bouncy castle later on next up is recruiting and retention in a bear market with allie paul and caroline lowe from true search okay good morning so good morning everyone here at nircon in lisbon and hello there to everyone who watches this later on on the video recording that's going to go out later um so i'm caroline lowe my colleague ali

61. 32:03

    paul and we work with a company called true search that's us up there and we're here to talk to you today about retaining and hiring talent in a bear market i think this is our bold way of saying it's a little grizzly out there hiring in high growth tech talent markets has been challenging for several years you add to that the complexity and the fascination but the complexity around web 3 and crypto you add the complexity and challenges

62. 32:34

    presented by a bear market and it's tough and actually one of the sort of the spoilers here the sort of tldr if you don't pay attention to the rest of our talk is that when things are tough it's back to basics back to the basic principles of what you're doing what you've set out to do what you need from your team and where you guys are going so just for context as well we want to tell you a little bit about true search and what we do so true search is part of

63. 33:06

    a talent platform from true we have a number of different products we're constantly innovating um there's currently uh i think six products that we've shared with you up there there are actually more there are more in incubation as well we've got a couple of really exciting betas running right now so true search that's where ali and i are we are we're 10 years old as a company we started 10 years ago with five people in san francisco new jersey wine forward 10 years we've

64. 33:31

    scaled to 825 people globally with over 20 officers from san francisco to shanghai and sydney what we're saying there is that we empathize with what you guys are either about to do or what you are already going through we understand the pains of scaling and some of the lessons that we've learned and our clients have shared with us are sort of what we're keen to share with you today as well within the context of the current

65. 33:56

    the current market that everyone is navigating so just a tiny bit about some of the others truebridge is one of our recent launches lots of our clients said we need interims this is a really fluid market you know permanent hiring is not the only way forward we agreed with you all and that's why we've launched trubridge it's live in the u.s um it's going to be live in emir and aidpack as well shortly flipping right to the other end their

66. 34:19

    true equity we're really focused on understanding our clients and really aligning ourselves with you um so what we've looked to do wherever we can is actually to take equity and lure fees we're not yet taking tokens in near fees but ali and i are going to put our foot down and make sure that that happens so it's work in progress so please watch this space um so just to introduce myself i'm

67. 34:44

    caroline lowe so i'm one of the partners in the london office we've got a fabulous global team across web 3 crypto i've been in search for about 17 years started in financial services rolled into fintech and three years ago started working with the web3 community and i feel really lucky and humbled to be working with all of you guys this is the coolest market i've ever worked in handy to ali

68. 35:07

    that's caroline i'm ali paul and um i work exclusively on everything we do in web 3 and crypto at true i have a bit of a non-traditional background i used to be a detective in the met police and during that i got interested in blockchain through evidence management systems and then from there discovered blockchain other blockchain projects the infrastructure and just how exciting it is so it's good to be here um as i said we work pretty broadly across the space

69. 35:41

    we've done a lot of work on the c5 side of things we've worked with laser bit panda with block phi across d5 with rv avant-garde and then also now moving into a lot of the layer one infrastructure generally near foundation one of our biggest clients algorand um and also gaming as well and across all of those we work with organizations all sizes from 500 plus people to founding teams really starting out in their basement atomic hub is a good

70. 36:12

    example of that a super small team 10 10 people all developers and then we build teams around that it's really great to be here talk to you about the market today so the state of the market right now ultimately the last year and a half has been an awesome time for the industry right it's it's gone from magical internet money to now something that's a lot more accepted generally and a lot more interested

71. 36:45

    there's it is a lot more interest from people in web 2 especially wanting to move into the space that said we're still super early and and the talent pool right now needs to grow uh a lot to reach the level of maturity that we've seen in web 2.

72. 37:03

    there's definitely greater candidate scrutiny now we're in a bear market when prices are going up in the ball people are super ready to jump um into this exciting new space when it's a bear candidates are less um they're more risk averse they want to know more about the projects they want to know who they're going to be working with and they want to just spend more time with the people that are going to be working

73. 37:27

    with and building with the other important thing despite lower valuations market conditions people are still expecting a similar comp going forward we'll touch on comp a little bit later in in the talk the the way to really win people over in this market right is we're in the most exciting space in the world right now and being able to attract people through clear values and and a real mission i feel like this space

74. 38:03

    has a lot more of that mission-driven focus than a lot of other companies out there and that's where you should really dial in on ultimately everyone wants that sense of belonging and being on that journey together a big takeaway from all of this is we're still in a candidate market and ultimately you need to make sure you have the processes and structures in place to be able to optimize all of your hiring across your business cool so um i think we mentioned earlier

75. 38:33

    on that when times are tough probably our best advice is to go back to basics um that's generally in life and certainly now um recruiting and retaining are effectively two sides of the same coin or the same token perhaps uh given right here at neocon it's the this sort of set of new ideas and principles that we have is will help you with both and ultimately it's all wrapped up in the idea of having a winning employee value proposition um

76. 39:04

    we're going to sound like we're repeating ourselves a little bit but i think the message will be pretty clear having that clarity of vision mission and values is so important um we were fortunate enough to join the change makers breakfast yesterday and we're chatting to amy the founder of bluedial we say you know what is life like you know as founder of blue dell and he said you know what it's like building a bridge having the guts to

77. 39:27

    walk on it at the same time even though you have no experienced bridge architect or bridge engineer you've got to be brave and you've got to have a very clear mission and purpose as to why you're doing it and also the values that go hand in hand that help people who come along with you on that journey when you think about that team both the current team and the future team that you want

78. 39:49

    invest in that team that team is your absolute greatest asset you have one or two fantastic people along for the ride with you they will bring along other great people with them they will find that talent for you um people see a happy thriving team who are excited to do what they're doing even though times are tough and even though things are not quite where you want it to be they will help you find more people and also retain that broader team that you go on to build

79. 40:14

    um it goes without saying we'll talk about compensation through this not everyone joins or leaves because of compensation but it sure does help the wheels go around you have got to make sure that your compensation structure both short and long time is long term is always aligned with what you're doing and the exact market conditions that you're currently operating in and then to sort of wrap all of this being open-minded and looking at a diverse talent pool

80. 40:45

    it goes far beyond just being open to someone in web 2 to come into web 3 and bring what they know from there and learn everything that's new to them about web3 it is about diversity of thought it is about diversity of experience so really go abroad cast the net wide and then sort of drill down in terms of you know who is actually going to be aligned with your value set and bring at least the top priority skills with them that you need rather than a huge

81. 41:11

    shopping list of skill sets and experience so just to go on to uh like the here and now sort of retaining in this market i did say there's a fair amount of repetition here um and actually one of the one of the best ceos um that i really respect in this market i said what did you learn about being a ceo so far he said repetition you know once you've repeated something several times and you you think that people are bored of you you probably still need to keep saying it again um and you know i'm going to skip to point

82. 41:45

    two there one of the things is just over communicate communicate communicate constantly to your team if you can increase the visibility as much as possible you're reducing the uncertainty for your team and therefore you're just helping to hold on to some of your best talent leverage the hell out of your core values these are the things that keep people together during tough times speaking to

83. 42:08

    another ceo the other day and actually when things got very tough they actually reduced their uh the number of values they had from seven to three and it was so clear you know by making that simplification of what was so important to them everyone knew what those values were so clear i can remember them now it was own it better together be human you know get done help each other through that and be kind

84. 42:33

    to your colleagues and ecosystem along the way um max out on flexibility point number three um you guys in web three you're the leaders in this you know a lot of you started with decentralized teams you started with complete remote workforces but we've seen a number of web 3 groups especially over the challenging months new this summer really pushed that that bit further unpaid leave sabbaticals part-time work we're hearing a lot more about fractional working now as well you might feel you need a very

85. 43:05

    experienced chief marketing officer for example but you don't actually need them five days a week you don't need 100 of their time it could be hugely advantageous to you to have someone maybe two and a half days a week and they spend the other two and a half days or more you guys tend to work a lot you're passionate they're working with another business there's not a competitor but is perhaps adjacent and actually really complementary to your work in your world so actually you could learn from what they're doing in that other role and

86. 43:31

    they can bring that expertise over to your business and then back to compensation um we've looked at web 2 and we've also looked at web 3 and a number of companies i think pretty much everyone is sort of saying no do we still have the right compensation package given where token prices are or where you know current valuations are for the business there's a lot in the press with uh some

87. 43:54

    very well-known companies you know sort of restating their valuation and one of the reasons to do that is to um to attract talent but also they're perhaps getting rid of a strike price in order to retain that talent and make sure that people are 100 incentivized from here on i'm thinking about hiring in in this market and and it's worth saying as well everything that caroline outlined there

88. 44:19

    about retaining people also carries on and creates a compounding effect for when you want to bring on new people one of the crucial things that we see which is the difference between whether a process can take a year or a few weeks is being very clear on exactly what you need from the get-go and spending that time to really dial in on exactly what it is this person needs to do i think it's pretty clear

89. 44:53

    i imagine people have had experience with this today web 3 is still super early there are a limited number of people who have actually been through the growth journey and success stories that you would traditionally look for in the web 2 market as a result if you can dial in on exactly how important specific web3 knowledge is for this higher you will then open yourself up to a whole wider pool of just really experienced leaders

90. 45:24

    and operators in the space generally and having the structures in place to enable people who are coming in from web 2 to learn is super crucial as well convincing without selling this one we we were speaking to a ceo the other day who whenever he's interviewing a new candidate will ask his team am i buying or selling and the truth is you're doing both all the time it's a constant flow of back and forth of trying to determine whether this is a strong candidate and also presenting the best case for your business

91. 46:03

    the it's also worth um saying as well despite being in a super remote world now having that human personal connection is so important still today it can make all the difference if you're willing to fly from singapore all the way to europe just to spend time with this new candidate and will really set you apart from other businesses in the space coming back to compensation just being transparent from the get-go about what is possible and what isn't if you can determine that from the beginning

92. 46:35

    you'll be able to really dial in on what exactly it is that will drive um that will attract really good people uh into your business that's a lot more um or more of a fundamental level to really get people to align with what your mission truly is which is ultimately what web3 i believe and i'm sure everyone else does um has over traditional web 2.

93. 47:02

    um and finally probably one of the most important is the long interview process is dead and what we always say is time kills deals at the end of the day the first principle that you should have when it comes to all hiring is that great candidates will have multiple offers and the longer you take to figure out that entire process the higher chance it will be of the candidate getting snapped up by someone else so on that

94. 47:36

    it's going to so one final point that that we also advise that especially when it comes to builders and developers having an amazing vp people or cpo can make all the difference in in in all of this and can take a lot of the burden off you as well we're going to be around the rest of the day if anyone has any further questions um feel free to come say hi we'd love to have a chat and enjoy the rest of the conference yeah and just a big thank you to all the guys at near foundation to jack and your dear

95. 48:15

    and everyone there we're um we feel really lucky really humbled to join nercon we've learned a lot we've spoken to loads of cool people doing really great things and yeah just to follow on from ali be great to talk to a few more people so thank you thank you caroline and ali next up is sustainability and i see that we have a number of the team of the sustainability teams here we have fatima zara from know your crypto who will be moderating this panel

96. 48:57

    and fred fognier from open forest protocol mark johnson from protocol labs and phil fogle from flowcarbon welcome all right hello everyone welcome to the sustainability the tall guy in the middle i'm in fact not fatima but actually rim i'm a fatima's replacement for the day so we'll be diving into sustainability and blockchain and we have three very fitting guests from each very prominent protocols and projects let's start with a round of introductions phil if you want to start

97. 49:43

    us off who are you what do you do and maybe if you can give us a tldr of your project as well for sure uh hi everyone i'm phil i'm from flowcarbon um flowcarbon is helping to build scaling solutions for the voluntary carbon market and so we're currently focused on two areas of that one is tokenizing existing carbon credits that exist in the voluntary carbon market and bringing them on chain and also creating on-chain financing

98. 50:07

    solutions for projects okay awesome mark yeah sure um mark johnson i'm an environmental solutions architect for protocol labs focusing specifically on file queen green which is protocol labs initiative to one make file coin verifiably sustainable but two to build the world's best tools to measure and reduce environmental impacts i'm fred fournier i'm the ceo of open forest protocol which is a what we call an mrv platform for forestation projects

99. 50:37

    mrv standing for measurement reporting and verification of those projects from the ground with a decentralized approach to validation that's what we are and what we're doing all right well the topic today is how we are bringing sustainability to blockchain and sustainability is very much a buzzword now you know has been for a while the word's been thrown around a lot but i'd love to hear maybe from each of our

100. 51:02

     perspectives how are we defining sustainability in each of our contacts i'm happy to kick it off yeah uh first phil as always killer killer kicks thank you i have to throw that out there um and rim to your question about sustainability you're right it is a word that has been used quite a lot conjures a lot of different perceptions and generally has a few misconceptions related to it and really the the term sustainability

101. 51:32

     or in a broader context sustainable development is more than 35 years old it was in 1987 that the former prime minister of norway grow harlem brundtland released a report called our common future in which he first defined sustainable development and she coined the term as or she defined the term as sustainable development is the way to meet the basic needs of all and ex to extend to all the opportunity to satisfy their aspirations for a better life and

102. 52:04

     i think 35 years later that definition is still incredibly incredibly appropriate and i very much see refi the regenerative finance base here in web 3 as the natural technological evolution of sustainable development i don't think i can really add too much of that that was a pretty much a perfect definition of sustainability what the real question is how can we use blockchain to further those goals and

103. 52:28

     that there are a whole bunch of different sustainability sub-goals and that each one of them has different use cases on blockchain including things like carbon and climate which we're all sort of focused on in the in the very immediate term but also things like ubi and creating more opportunity for people who are not very disenfranchised yeah i think this is a really great discussion and definition of on

104. 52:52

     sustainability what is how do you look forward to society for me is more on how you think of inclusion how do you bring people in a in a society where the wealth is distributed in another way than today so it's more decentralized and that's uh that's of course what we discussed a lot here in web 3 but it's all how do we decentralize wealth decentralized access to resources make sure that our society our environment will be a better place in terms of uh distributing that

105. 53:22

     resources those resources in the future the other interesting thing about sustainability is not just about the planet today and the people on the planet today but how do we make sure that the planet is sustainable for future generations and that the future generations have access to greater resources and greater wealth than we do today and that's a very difficult challenge to tackle and that there's a lot of you know starting to be a lot of applications in blockchain to do that

106. 53:45

     yeah so i think this is a really important point that when we talk about sustainability you know often i think in this context especially we think about climate we think about how can we think about the environment but it's more than that it's a very inclusive term we're thinking about equity we're talking about social justice we're talking about inclusion distribution resources very much literally how can we have a foreseeable sustainable future that will

107. 54:08

     last for future generations but kind of coming back to a specific climate point i think because especially for near near has been a carbon neutral chain from the very beginning has been offsetting its carbon emissions being a proof of stake it has much larger energy consumption to begin with but from the outside when we say blockchain and sustainability a lot of people are skeptical so i think we could i know it's a boring question

108. 54:31

     you've been getting this all the time about how much bitcoin is using up energy but maybe we can clarify a little bit about the misconceptions when when we say you know aren't you just using blockchain and crypto as a gimmick isn't this another form of greenwashing and the real question is can blockchain and cryptoeconomics actually bring fundamental solutions to existing problems yeah i mean it definitely can i mean

109. 54:55

     let's start with the misconception right so proof-of-work blockchains are energy-intensive they just absolutely are and bitcoin is certainly the worst offender in terms of their energy usage and therefore their carbon footprint ethereum sort of second worst offender ideally sometime in the next couple days that's not going to be true anymore and if you look at the actual carbon usage in terms of megatons when you look at a proof of

110. 55:20

     stake blockchain it's 0.0 megatons right it it basically becomes a rounding error in terms of energy consumption let's not get wrong there's still energy consumption there that should be offset but it's not it's basically a meaningless amount of energy consumption yeah and to um add on to that i think one of the misconceptions is that that we hear a lot is that blockchains are burning the

111. 55:44

     world and things like that and i definitely agree with phil you know blockchains do consume a lot of electricity just like any other computing infrastructure what i feel what i think people fail to recognize is that so does every other economic or form of economic activity right you compare the entire web 3 space to say the global steel supply chain global lithium aluminum cobalt concrete you

112. 56:07

     name it we are minuscule compared to these other forms of economic activity that really are the foundation of uh global society so when we're talking about energy consumption and sustainability we also need to recognize we need to do much more action in those areas than we need into in web 3 to make sure that we are achieving the deep decarbonization that climate scientists say that we must achieve in a very short

113. 56:31

     amount of time and i very much believe that blockchain networks and crypto primitives have a unique opportunity to realign incentives and drive collective action towards reducing emissions yeah i think that's a really good and very important point to actually look at what projects are actually doing it's not only about the infrastructure of blockchain it's also what are the projects on top of blockchain delivering in terms of impact and of course we talk

114. 56:56

     about carbon there are many other impacts that are linked to that so it's it's it's needed to have a holistic approach and not to be focused too much on this blockchain has that many that many common emissions it's more important to kind of have the discussion on what is what is delivered what kind of value proposition is delivered through that blockchain through the projects of the blockchain maybe more concretely on the question of

115. 57:19

     how is it that blockchain actually can solve problems rather than just being a buzzword attached to you know a new nft project we're now sustainable we're going to offset carbon could you tell us maybe through your own projects what is the solution using blockchain or the realignment of incentives through cryptoeconomics yet you're bringing to an existing problem now so i think to even talk about we're talking about financing and creation of carbon credits

116. 57:43

     on chain to understand how those should be used you actually have to go a step back and understand why are carbon credits used in the first place and the answer is because they're used to offset someone's footprint and so before you can offset your footprint you have to calculate your footprint which is actually a very difficult challenge because your footprint consists not just of the carbon the fossil fuels that you're used specifically are burning and releasing

117. 58:07

     into the atmosphere but also all of the carbon that's being released by your supply chain and so going back to that supply chain and figuring out how that supply chain is emitting carbon is an incredibly difficult challenge that requires trusted data and so one of the things that blockchain can solve not our project specifically but that our project relies on is all of these other projects that are working on what's called carbon accounting and the carbon accounting is specifically of what's

118. 58:31

     called the scope 3 emission which is your downstream suppliers emissions is an incredibly challenging problem because you're trusting your suppliers to give you valid information so that information when stored on chain can now go into that accounting system in a really meaningful way and so that's one of the ways where blockchain can do it then you come to us and we basically are helping to create and you go to other protocols that are also building primitives around carbon credits that

119. 58:55

     can allow you to take that calculation in and build it out so i'll give i'll mention another project there's another project called menthol protocol which is being built to do the carbon accounting that exists for users on chain so a user can basically install or use this like middleware software that just sits there and looks at the carbon footprint of a blockchain and says okay you're responsible for this portion of it and automatically offsets on chain that's

120. 59:19

     really easy because it's all the data is available you can interact with smart contracts and it can just happen when you're talking about the steel industry the lithium industry the cobalt industry it's much much harder to calculate these things yeah so on the data layer there is a fundamental solution to the existing industry in terms of accounting as you mentioned how much carbon is being used how much is being emitted and how much is each entity responsible for how much carbon yeah

121. 59:44

     yeah and to add on to that point specifically you know filecoin and ipfs are the data availability and storage network of web three right um filecoin specifically launched in october of 2020 and in just you know short of two years we have scaled the network to over 18 exabytes of storage capacity which is uh to put in context about 10 of aws about one percent of global storage capacity

122. 1:00:09

     there's 4 100 storage fighters aka small little data centers around the world that are storing data on behalf of clients and when we think about it in sustainability and decarbonization in the context of our network we're really focused on four main areas of activity one on evaluating the energy use of the filecoin network itself um and through that work and happy to dive into this in

123. 1:00:32

     a little more detail um through the the methodology that we've developed and some of the dashboards that we've developed we are super proud to say that we think that the filecoin blockchain is the most transparent blockchain major blockchain in the world when it comes to electricity use because we know exactly in a very granular basis the electricity used by all of the storage providers within our network that make up that 18x baits of storage capacity the second

124. 1:00:57

     major area is connecting all those storage providers to renewable energy and the primary market instrument that we're using for that is renewable energy certificates as opposed to offsets because when you're talking about the emissions that are generated via the consumption of electricity connecting that and electricity consumption to renewable energy via wrecks is the appropriate way to mitigate and minimize those emissions

125. 1:01:22

     uh the third primary way that we are uh decarbonizing the network is by uh developing a slew of tools and guidance documentation to help all of the 4100 storage providers decarbonize their own operations right a lot of what we're doing now in connecting the network to renewable energy is done on behalf of uh or by protocol labs and the filecoin foundation but it's certainly not our

126. 1:01:45

     intent to continue to do that forever so we are providing them the tools to continuously decarbonize their operations and baking into the protocol some incentives to give them economic rewards for achieving deep decarbonization and then the fourth uh main area is to try to catalyze this nascent space of environmental web 3 projects and the primary ways that we're doing that is through our green grants pipeline

127. 1:02:10

     we just launched one earlier this year with about a million dedicated to funding early stage ideas that green grants pipeline ends at the end of this month and we'll be kicking off another one and then through events and hackathons like our sustainable blockchain summit um you all were there a few of you in the audience were there in paris around hcc when we held our sbs eu and then around devcon in october

128. 1:02:33

     we'll be running another one sbs lattam in bogota so yeah to bring the discussion from the carbon angle to a more sustainable angle so our approach is basically you know thinking about how the world is talking about carbon and looking at uh how you apply this to include people in this discussion and people that need it the most so looking at what we do in the forestation sphere we've developed an mrv tool for the people on the ground to

129. 1:03:06

     onboard uh this journey and to show what they do into into into forest and how they conserve and preserve and restore forest and so that's what we've developed developing and i think the the co-benefits here uh we're talking about carbon eventually but the common benefits here is they have access to the latest digital tools but this enables them to basically scale the projects when we

130. 1:03:30

     talk about smaller projects that are not able to access the carbon finance not able to access any kind of technological tool then suddenly they find a solution where they can onboard this this kind of journey with everyone else and basically bring broader co-benefits to the carbon discussion so that's what basically we we provide and i think it's very important to on on a micro level to

131. 1:03:55

     think on how we could include the maximum people in in this kind of business evolution and i think web3 is really the place to do that because it's really a community-based approach and that's it's super important from for bringing sustainability on on our obviously in our businesses and in in web3 as a whole so if we kind of quickly sum up i think there are two main points on the technology side the blockchain as a database layer and also the tooling that you can provide with

132. 1:04:26

     blockchain technology actually solves problems in the industry carbon accounting whether it comes to mrv in deforestation sector and then there's also i think mark what you were touching upon about realigning incentives incentivizing people to decarbonize through economics and i think that's also a financial layer that is very interesting that we can introduce because crypto economics we are able to re-strategize and re-theorize the ways that we

133. 1:04:51

     incentivize things i think yesterday so we had a refi lisbon event and john from refi dow was talking about how you know currently when we think about capitalism it's an extractive form of finance but now we are realigning incentives towards re incentivizing regeneration of things things that actually help the planet um kind of picking up on that point could you tell us a little bit more about how each of your projects not just use blockchain technology but

134. 1:05:17

     cryptoeconomics in order to kind of realign these incentives and how you're mobilizing capital basically to go to the right places right yeah so it's interesting when we talk about tokenizing straight carbon credits there's actually no tokenomics there is no cryptoeconomics the in fact the general principle is to take something that is a spot commodity in the real world so to speak and to

135. 1:05:40

     make it a spot commodity in web 3. right and so in that sense there are no crypto economics where we step back and say in financing and how do we create and go and finance projects we actually are looking at ways to create economic models using tokens and using additional platforms and using the benefits of multiple l1s and their ecosystems to bring their tokenomics and their incentive systems to providing a liquid deep market

136. 1:06:05

     for carbon credits and so you know there are lots of ecosystems now that are putting a tremendous amount of capital and it's phenomenal to see and one of the reasons why that's happening is because fundamentally sustainability is a mass coordination problem and luckily web3 is a mess coordination tool and what you're seeing is web3 take real ownership and responsibility and saying this is a problem that we want to challenge that we want to tackle in a

137. 1:06:29

     meaningful way and so there is capital flowing at the end of the day where all of these coordination challenges come in is can you make capital someone last night at the event said something that just really resonated with me and i'm going to keep saying over and over and over again which is that you know if we're really successful in building this regenerative financial economy five years from it might have been you who said it stealing your line here um

138. 1:06:53

     you know five years from now you want someone sitting in college to not say i want to go into tech or i want to go into banking you want them to say i want to go into forest preservation because that's where the money is sure absolutely absolutely actually i just want to pick up on that point because it's really really salient right on point um you know the united nations environmental program releases a a report every year called the emissions gap report and it evaluates the trajectory of emissions global emissions

139. 1:07:20

     impairs that to policy measures around the world and that showcases exactly how far off we are or how closely we are tracking to achieving the long-term goals of the paris agreement maintaining a 2 degree centigrade rise in global temperatures and last year's report was aptly titled the heat is on and it definitively concluded that climate change is no longer a future problem it is a now problem and so to your point phil we really need to develop some tools and bake into those tools incentives that

140. 1:07:52

     provide opportunities and monetary benefits to individuals that may not be interested in this space but see it as a way to um going back to that definition of sustainable development to provide them the means for a better life and also extending that to better their life in many contexts yeah i think on the token economics you at least for us you have to put your feet in the boots of someone on the ground so it's not about token economics it's more about human economics or social

141. 1:08:25

     economics biodiversity economics call it whatever you want but you have to put your perspective from an outside of web3 perspective and what that means it means that you have to understand what those people needs to be included in in this discussion maybe not like on the stage today but in our environment and what we've done with uh with open forest protocol is basically say okay there are

142. 1:08:48

     hundreds if not thousands and hundreds of thousands projects around the world that want to do something for nature right okay this is a fact we know that for a fact um some of those people have the opportunity to plan trees conserve trees uh and interact with forests how do we deliver something that makes sense to them and then you start you know thinking about a solution that eventually has web 3 behind but the the

143. 1:09:11

     real value proposition for them is deriving a tool a technological tool to do what they are good at doing restoring and and conserving nature and if you provide that tool and in the background you have a web three well well designed token economics that might work but you really have to think first about what are the needs from those people on the grounds to be onboarded and if you do that well i

144. 1:09:35

     think we have a great chance of success there yeah i mean on that note of inclusion and tying back to the early definition of sustainability that we all agreed upon um how are we bringing inclusion using through our projects or maybe just in general from your observations in the space because blockchain you know we talk about the database layer we talk about the financial layer but it's also

145. 1:09:57

     philosophically speaking and also technologically speaking there's an element of empowerment and democratization that we i'm sure we're all very big fans of and i wonder within sustainability when we talk about sustainability and blockchain how are we bringing this empowerment aspect to individuals that have mostly been excluded from the space that have not had chance like you say these forest operator operators that have been

146. 1:10:20

     excluded from the space before how are we bringing them in how are we creating inclusive space um with regards to all of our projects yeah so you know when you talk about a lot of um nature-based carbon projects they actually take place on indigenous lands and so bringing the indigenous communities capital and giving them economic opportunity that isn't related to destroying their lands which they

147. 1:10:43

     often have significant spiritual and cultural ties to is really important so right now you can go throughout the amazon base and you can go to you know indonesia and lots of other places around the world and there are offers to these indigenous tribes to come in and you know cut their land down to grow palm oil or to do mineral extraction or to drill oil as it's currently going on the congo basin right all of that is can

148. 1:11:06

     we create an economic alternative to that where they don't have to cut their land down in order to receive economic benefit and so that's the way that we're bringing them into this what we're trying to bring in this inclusion and by giving them the tool set that everyone is building to make it easy for them to do that where the tech enabled element of it is just on and available and that the capital that flows to them doesn't flow through a large number of

149. 1:11:29

     intermediate extractionary intermediaries right so you think about some of these projects that get done they're done at the government level and by the time it trickles down to the local communities there's almost nothing left whereas in a web3 ecosystem where there's a payment being given for let's call it a carbon credit that's being created on a patch of land and there's supposed to be x amount of it going to each different participant in that including the local community you can

150. 1:11:53

     actually track that the money going from here to the local community's individual wallets is actually being traded that traceable directly to them right because you remove the intermediaries and you also provide the transparency through the blockchain exactly yeah exactly and to that point of those extractive intermediaries one of the challenges i think that we all agree on is that within the scope of the current voluntary carbon markets those

151. 1:12:16

     intermediaries more or less silo the data related to these projects and slow down the development in the launch of these projects i think rim you might have said it last night it's somewhere in the uh neighborhood of two to five years that it takes for a project to start to when it's actually delivering impact and um you know for our part one of the ways that we're addressing some of those scaling issues that the voluntary carbon market space faces in this project origination cycle

152. 1:12:46

     um is by developing a product called co2 dot storage which enables project developers some of you out there to specify standardized data schemas and store them natively on file code and ipfs in a content address manner rather than having all that data related to your tokenized carbon credit stored in those opaque and siloed legacy registries yeah so it's a kind of openness that i think we all agree on

153. 1:13:11

     that blockchain allows like it's not about fragmentizing it's not about being able to take monopoly over the data and the assets it's about being able to open access to everyone whether it's through the data layer the financial layer or simply really the inclusion layer of who gets to participate exactly yeah i think the data point here is super important because what we enable in this new system is that we enable people to own their data

154. 1:13:36

     and to decide what to do with the data if they want to be open they want the data to be open from the projects it's their decision to do so and of course we are in a situation where uh not everyone is ready to onboard in a in an open kind of way um but i think it's super important because if we make that shift the more and more people being more transparent being more you know open it's going to

155. 1:14:00

     trigger that transparency it's going to it's going to create a ripple effect eventually uh obviously some countries will try to stop that there will be you know frictions definitely but i think it's it's very necessary that we try to shift this world from a very much open and transparent approach to not only data but how we actually work together around this data yeah absolutely so we have about five

156. 1:14:24

     minutes left in the panel i want to address we are kind of talking about the ways that we are addressing the question of sustainability on blockchain the innovation that we are bringing but there are obviously challenges and challenges that we can't solve by ourselves because the space is very nascent it's just getting started we need other players to come and help us as we said it's a massive coordination event what are some of the challenges that

157. 1:14:47

     maybe you or as a space we are facing and what are some of your ideas to address them yeah so what's really interesting about web 2 versus web 3 is in web 2 if you wanted to create a company that tackled this you would have to build the entire stack yourself right maybe you would pay someone else for a few apis here and there and data feeds going otherwise but in web 3 what we're doing is building a totally interoperable stack that's built one

158. 1:15:11

     protocol on top of another protocol on top of another protocol so just the three of us sitting up here today in not that long from now we'll have a solution that an end user can use that actually at some point in the value chain touches all three projects and all three protocols and on top of that will be another protocol that actually allows for better user interface and allows for more and greater use cases so i think what we're really looking for in terms of

159. 1:15:36

     additional things to be built is we're building a lot of the core backbone infrastructure we're building the scaffolding so to speak of the ecosystem now what we're looking for from a lot of people builders in the space is to build the front end applications what do you do with these carbon credits and these data streams and all of this storage of data that now exists that will move the industry forward and make it more accessible and more usable by others

160. 1:16:02

     yeah i really couldn't agree more with that and you know the majority of what we've talked about here and a lot of the conversations that we focus on in the refi space are focused on a specific little narrow window of carving credits whether they're nature-based solutions or or other forms of carbon credits but if you pair it back to that definition of sustainable development and think about the sustainable development goals

161. 1:16:24

     those 17 goals to achieve a better life for the global humanity right there's 17 goals there's 169 targets the 321 different indicators right there is a massive massive scope of work where we can develop these tools and apply them to different areas of economic activity to promote sustainable development in all forms yeah you said it the beauty of what we do is exactly lies in there it's not only about beauty it's about efficiency it's about scale so

162. 1:16:56

     everything we are kind of putting together is going to go much faster it's going to be more transparent than anything else we can build i think of course there are challenging challenges on how we build that infrastructure it's not necessarily easy it's not necessarily like straightforward but i mean the perspective on how we build together in this space is enormous and it's not something you find in in web3 or in

163. 1:17:20

     other type of companies and especially we can say that you know from uh from our perspective that when you interface with companies as as much as we interface with vi leaders on our site that are not really into web through your projects they have a very you know specific and silent approach on what they want to deliver in terms of products we also have that but we have the perspective on delivering and connecting that product to a much broader base and i think

164. 1:17:45

     it's been a year of more than a year for us of development but uh it's been a year but the space has evolved so much in a year you if you look at outside of the space how much has been done in a year it's incomparable yeah no on that note as we wrap up maybe you we i could give the stage to you guys to do a quick call to action we were talking about having more composable parts more

165. 1:18:08

     building blocks to make this space as big and as coordinated as possible to actually reach the goal of scaling climate solutions advancing sustainability through blockchain would you have a call to action to the audience out there yeah if you're building in the space think about all the infrastructure that we're building and what you could build on top of it i mean i've been just inspired for years by the work of filecoin the work of

166. 1:18:31

     uniswap the work of all these other big infrastructure plays it was like oh yeah we have this great idea in 2017 to scale the carbon markets but we can't do it without all this other infrastructure that was built that needed to be built first now this next layer of infrastructure is being built what can you build next that's going to sit on top of it to further advance sustainability goals that are not just carbon based yeah that's that's amazing um i'll plug once again sustainable

167. 1:18:55

     blockchain summit this event that we're running on a quarterly basis to try to bring together everybody that's interested in these crucial topics uh to hold these conversations and move the the needle in the right direction um and really get involved let's uh work together to promote environmental and human flourishing like we've never seen before i think my call to action would be if you have an idea that is somehow linked

168. 1:19:19

     to sustainability you are some kind of an expert in your field whatever the field is social impact environmental impact uh if you think about something that might you know change how things are built in an inclusive manner uh i think you know come talk to us or talk to other people in that space and let's try to build together that you know the the stack that we can build here is really

169. 1:19:44

     really wide and there is plenty of opportunity i'm pretty sure that um in 10 years from now hopefully we'll be there i know seeing this space really being really wide all right thank you everyone for listening and thank you to all of our panelists let's keep on building and for sustainability thank you all right all right thank you fred mark and phil and of course rim for how to bring sustainability to blockchain and thank you for everything

170. 1:20:24

     you're doing to make the blockchain more sustainable our next speaker is sandy fatigue from calimero who'll be presenting kelly merrow and why private sharding will get business on chain okay it works works everybody hears me uh first of all thank you everybody for coming uh i have to only 10 minutes so i will try to explain basically what we do and why private sharding is important just to start uh my name is sandy i'm

171. 1:21:00

     the ceo of calimero and i was the first infrastructure engineer at near essentially responsible for shipping maintenance at near last year at nircon one year ago we started thinking about ideas how can we bring blockchain uh to the masses so currently we have you know we have web two we have three web three but the question is like how do we build one million users into the space how do we bring them and essentially we are currently a bubble like we are thinking that only web 3

172. 1:21:31

     exists but there's one billion users where they're waiting and if you think about like what web 2 was red was well that was a centralized private trusted silo custodial so like companies like google companies like facebook and now we have a decentralized public trustless enteropolis non-custodial solution but like none of this actually solve the problems of like how do we bring

173. 1:21:54

     billions of users so that's why we decided to build built calimero like blockchains by design are not privacy preserving technologies they are transparency engines so we had problems with you know data availability with interoperability with all these things in web 2 but now we built the polar opposite essentially we just went from one extreme to the other and that's a bit problematic because you don't want like people were complaining

174. 1:22:18

     in web 3 when we were starting you know oh i don't want my data to be you know at facebook i don't want my data be at google but like what we built all your data is public now like everybody can use it so like it's even worse and that's very specifically a problem for enterprises so like enterprises cannot join like banks cannot join governments cannot join those gaming communities they really cannot join because there's certain data which has to be you know stored in a different way

175. 1:22:43

     so why i think like we missed we have to backtrace a bit from from web 3 uh to web 2.5 um and we think like how do we design the systems and in my opinion like there's there is use cases where we need federated systems so like you know small communities running it governments running it consortiums running it also we need you know an interaction between both public and the private so the question is how can a bank use public

176. 1:23:07

     assets like ethereum like bitcoin like others and you know benefit from from from from these assets like store them in a federated consortium you know we had hyper ledger before we had corda we had r3 all these other guys but like they were building four governments you know put it at the data center and never never like interact with anything so what we wanted to build at calimera was essentially a private chart which provides you the ability to

177. 1:23:30

     both interact with near mainnet or some other chains for example aurora and near and in the future maybe others where you know a community an enterprise can run this private chart and then talk to other private charts interoperable have smart contracts between them and that's how it works essentially uh i think we are you know uh the first bridge like we are going to new terms so like the first term we coined in this

178. 1:23:53

     space is a realistic bridge i don't know if somebody claimed it already but essentially if you look at ethereum we have you know arbitrary we have optimistic roll-ups all these other things but first time first time in my opinion like we built a bridge which works under five seconds it's like you lock an asset it gets transferred to the other part of the chain in five seconds so like we use near finality which is two seconds and then on the calimeria chart you have two second finality and it just works

179. 1:24:19

     this was enabled because near is the first chain where you could actually verify signatures from the block headers it wasn't possible before now it is so we built the fastest bridge you can breach nfts you can bridge fungible tokens you can do cross-contract calls from a private chart into the public and the other way around so imagine you have and one important thing so currently we work both on aurora and near so if

180. 1:24:42

     you're already running our application on our near you can easily you know just use the same contracts use the same sdks use near api js and just deploy on the private chart obviously if you want to do you know bridges and stuff we also are building a small sdk which will help you do that in rust javascript or solidity what else is like a big problem i believe in the space like you know we

181. 1:25:05

     don't have enough infrastructure we have enough builders but people don't want to manage infrastructure it's a pain i've worked as an infrastructure engineer in the security for many years and people hate infrastructure you know you're building a product you're a startup you want to you don't want to focus about you know how do i run all my notes where are they running all this other stuff where's my api where's my indexer graphql endpoint it's it's exhausting so essentially we build a dashboard where

182. 1:25:29

     you can with one click deploy a private chart you get an indexer rolling you get an rpc node rolling you have you have a marketplace where you can just deploy applications for like rocket or nfts fungible tokens like few buttons so and that's also like for for you know both enterprises and startups uh on top of that like we want to build a calimero ecosystem like we really wanna target different industry

183. 1:25:51

     obviously there's you know enterprises and governments there's many use cases there but there's also many use cases in gaming for example like you you don't why you why gamers hate web3 because they don't want to pay to get into web3 why social doesn't work on web3 because people don't want to pay to get in imagine like if facebook you know 15 years ago said everybody has to be

184. 1:26:14

     paying like to start a facebook account nobody would use it like we would be using i don't know facebook two or something um and that's a problem essentially they took that they like it it's the same same thing actually you know like before you didn't have cloud you had servers but facebook had to you know put the service into data x um and then essentially you know pay for the

185. 1:26:37

     hardware and the like the the things that were running and you know find another way to monetize and that what type of monetization was essentially ads um now with web3 we have you know composability we have interoperability we have smart contracts we can find better ways to monetize even like you know if you don't want to use that just pay for subscription services and you will not have ads um then on top of that dows those are very very good example because

186. 1:27:02

     in the dows um usually like how it is imagine you run an investment dollar for example um you want to make decisions you want to hold assets you want to have accounting you maybe you want to pay taxes this can all be managed by a smart contract but you don't want it to be public so you could you know do cross-cut cross-contract chart calls or just bridge the assets inside inside the private chart and it should work for example you can have a smart contract

187. 1:27:25

     where you get inbound uh payments every time when the payment gets in you have a smart con like the smart contract relays 20 for tax because you will be regulated stuff will you only need to have a digital cooperative automatically the money comes in goes into a tax smart contract or gets it immediately paid afterwards if you want to have budgets inside the organization inside the dao

188. 1:27:47

     you should be able to build smart contracts for that as well social like you could have social graphs you know refederated run by consortiums like minecraft is a good example you know we have people were running minecraft servers for many years and like nothing prevents us to run federated networks so like this is a new term uh proof of community so we had proof of authority we had proof of stake we had proof of

189. 1:28:10

     uh work proof of history and like the new term i hopefully we came up with is proof of community so if you have a community of hundred people thousand people as long as two thirds of that community is honest the system will work so like you can build better models in my opinion and for example if you have you know assets which are not really that worth for example you know gaming you have one dollar nfts and stuff and even if the

190. 1:28:32

     community colludes to steal your one dollar nfts probably you're not gonna be that mad and they don't have the incentive to do so so what kalimera wants to be so calamero has this bridge between calimero and near calimero and aurora but also calimero to calimero shards could they they can work together so we want to be if you think about the internet what the internet was you know all this open data then you had intranets but internets

191. 1:28:57

     could talk to the internet through you know firewalls routers modems whatever that's what kalimera wants to be the intranet of the web3 internet um for our future so we have a test net running people if you're interested we can create you an account um we are launching maintenance soon in a month so we just need to finalize security audits also we are building calmer sdks both for connectors so if

192. 1:29:22

     you want to build approver for your use case you can do that we'll have some public apis near contract sdks and you know all the ecosystem tools work near wall that is integrated so even if your users already have a new wallet they can just sync their accounts sync their file full access keys or function access skills is inside the shard and interact also we have a bunch of partner integrations already in

193. 1:29:45

     process or find being finalized for example aurora rocket is coming to a calimero to have streaming payments inside of calimeroshard astrodow will be integrating private charts so you will be able to spin up private charts for your dao my wallet is integrated spin finance is trying to build the fastest decentralized exchange on top of calimero and also what we want to say like some people to come to me and say sandy it's

194. 1:30:09

     it's a permission network it doesn't work so i believe that there is ways to have a private permission network with fraud proofs using intel hdx processors to validate encrypted state and then obviously we'll have a bigger delay between you know transferring assets but you can build systems where you know for example some external validator runs state transitions on on top of the

195. 1:30:32

     uh state i mean validate the state transition and if there is a you know a issue for example if coinbase run the private chart uh and they did an invalid state transition by themselves external validators the community could you know get that or the sec could run it or i don't know whoever wants to run it and then punish them slash them or you know whatever uh thing and essentially last six seconds uh oh actually i'm over um so if you're

196. 1:30:58

     anything from like a d5 project dao government enterprise and you're looking for a privacy solution or looking for a ghast free scaling solution we got you covered please come talking to me we have a boot here and i mean thank you so much oh my water thank you so much sandy from kelly merrell introducing private shards we now have a break for lunch so it's a 30 minute break please enjoy the food the drinks go check out there's the sweatcoin bouncy

197. 1:31:36

     castle there's the gaming lounge please enjoy yourselves over lunch see you in 30 minutes welcome everyone i hope you had a nice lunch break and you've had a chance to try out all the delicacies from our different trucks and food providers from all of our different regional hubs this session is about the future of near wallets and allow me to welcome cameron dennis from banyan collective ilya polozokin from near protocol and jane

198. 1:32:15

     wang from pagoda hi thank you should we sit here all right hey everyone we have a really cool session here with three of us uh we're gonna cover kind of high level kind of the way we see the future wallets and some ideas for everyone to talk about then jane will talk about kind of the transition from world.near.org and then cameron will talk about how community can get involved what's happening and

199. 1:32:55

     kind of exciting things there so let's kick it off so amelia great to see everyone here and let's dive in so our core kind of idea behind near is always been on removing barriers right is to make things really simple to use and on board a billion users and so to do that we've been kind of from the start trying to innovate on how the kind of wallets work that's why we've you know originally built web wallet to really kind of deliver this web to feel right where you just log in with google you know you kind of

200. 1:33:33

     acknowledge it and then you go back to the app and start using it and like onboarding is kind of a major barrier in web3 right if you think of it like at some point when we were just starting we were trying out to buy a cryptokitty and it took like 28 steps to go from like not having any crypto or any wallet to actually buying a crypto kitty which is ridiculous and so the kind of core of this issue always been that like yes if you're already in web 3 it actually becomes more

201. 1:34:04

     convenient because you don't need to sign up in every single app for new you don't need to like enter a credit card you're actually able to use it it co-interacts and contributes but the kind of the beginning of the journey is complicated and also as we have more wallets as we have more kind of ways to interact with these apps it also becomes more complicated right i'm sure kind of people already familiar with you click

202. 1:34:27

     sign in and you have like a whole list of like 40 50 wallets right that you can use you need to find yours and so one of the things we want to continue pioneering on is how to improve this how to improve the onboarding how to improve the interaction with apps and so one of the kind of part-time changes that i want to propose is split up this logic that you need to have a wallet to sign up into the app right that you kind of need to go to another application

203. 1:34:59

     to be onboarded in the application you actually want so think of it as like you want to use apps you use the app you kind of you create account there and then the wallet is becoming where you manage your account where manage your assets where you manage kind of kind of across applications now the way kind of this comes together right is through a number of existing tools and a bunch of future technology that is being built by various teams in the ecosystem

204. 1:35:30

     so we started by building extensible account model right i'm sure kind of if you're familiar with near you know you know named accounts ability to have lots of different kind of keys with different permissions to kind of configure how things work you have you know web wallet and link drops so you can actually board new users really easily kind of without them needing to like sign up and then send something and we actually have over

205. 1:35:55

     30 wallets at this point in the ecosystem which is which is pretty amazing at the same time now that we have 30 wallets we actually need to give people a way to select them right and so this is what jane for example been working on as well selector product is like how do you give a way to kind of log in into apps with different wallets across the ecosystem at the same time we're working on meta transactions we're working on things like aurora plus which allows you to subscribe and not pay for transaction fees every time you use

206. 1:36:28

     right so it removes a lot of barriers to interact with the app one of the things i've started talking about is how do we go away from this need of like hey i have a crypto wallet i have a bitcoin for example wallet and i want to use a near app well users don't actually care that near app is on near they just want to use it right so we can actually give them a way to log in with their bitcoin wallet by proxying

207. 1:36:54

     their transaction and remapping their account id into near similar to ethereum to any network right any cryptographic wallet we can actually proxy that information too near through meta transactions and allows them to use new apps without needing to set up a near wallet right away and this is where this concept of kind of separating the transaction signing logging into apps and account management that happens is starting to become

208. 1:37:23

     and so that's why the wallets right all of these wallets are becoming more of an account management tool right this is where you go to manage your account to send your tokens nfts etc it's not exactly the gateway to the applications per se and this is why wallet selectors for example can allow users to log in with email log in with kind of social log in with all kinds of ways and maybe you've seen link drops that are like allow you to do multiple transactions before you actually need to create account right so you can go beyond just

209. 1:37:54

     um like create account before you can do anything to a state where you can start using apps start doing something and then you can manage your account separately and obviously with that and with our kind of flexible account model you can have lots of kind of security improvements and way to recover your accounts because now you can set up you know email recovery with different permissions through taurus for example you can have a way to recover

210. 1:38:18

     kind of consumer custodians like near pay and maybe some others are launching so you have lots of different ways to kind of interact with your account while still being able to use your apps in this way now a lot of this is still future work so this is more of a inspiration and so kind of what's happening right now is this transition from web wallet to wallet selector and opening up access to

211. 1:38:42

     all these wallets in the ecosystem obviously we have kind of lots of more infrastructure coming and so i encourage everyone to participate and contribute to this and we have a world working group to kind of actually develop the standards and build this kind of amazing experiences together and so that everybody supports them so i'll pass my work this to jane to talk about wall transition and roadmap

212. 1:39:06

     all right hi everyone i'm here to tell you about the wallet transitions roadmap and strategies a little bit about me i'm a product manager at pagoda managing the developer tools and wallets based in the u.s my personal interests are in ft dfi and governance and tinkering tinkering on something on the border of d5 and ft at the moment so let's get into this transition so this transition will happen in five phases starting with the community engagement which is happening right now and

213. 1:39:40

     next phase is when we officially kick off the off-boarding of users from the near wallet as you know this is massive transition your wallet is a predominant wallet today in the ecosystem and this is going to off-board a lot of users and presents opportunities for the wallet builders right now in the ecosystem so that's expected to start in october the next phase is after some months of the transition we're going to change the product that lives on

214. 1:40:05

     wallet.near.org so it's becoming a portal which is no longer a wallet and that's expected to complete by the early part of 2023 and the two final phases are where we're going to remove some of the features that were built in the early part of the transition so we're winding down the transition and so you should be hearing from us from the pagoda foundation blog post as well social media channels and our amplification partners so

215. 1:40:34

     make sure you stay tuned so now we're in phase zero and as part of the phase zero we're here to tell you that the wallet transition is imminent so we ask you to get ready and this impacts your wallet users developers as well as wallet creators we're here to raise a profile of the wallets in the ecosystem a lot of them are here at nerocon so we invite you to speak with them and find out about their product and finally we're here to tell you that there is a massive opportunity here for

216. 1:41:05

     the walla builders in the ecosystem all right so if you're a wallet user right now you are asked to look at other wallet options in the ecosystem there's a number of wallets available today at awesomenear wallet page and i should also mention you shouldn't actually wait you don't need to actually wait till we officially start the off-boarding process to switch a different wallet so the passphrase that you had created when you first create your user account actually gives you full access to your wallet so

217. 1:41:37

     you can move to a different wallet today just by essentially importing your passwords into that wallet and if you want to wait in phase one we're going to launch a export functionality that makes it really easy and seamless for you to export your account to a different wallet all right so for the df developers this transition also have major also has a major impact on you so if you're implementing or integrating with only the near wallet today this is no longer the recommended approach like elias said while the selector is going

218. 1:42:10

     to become front and center and that is that is the recommended way to integrate wallets in the ecosystem so what is a wireless selector it is a single library that provides a single point integration to many wallets and check out the github here so this is what the wireless electric looks today we just launched the new ui last week so you can set up the wall selector by defining which wallets you want to include in the wireless lecture as well as the order in which to present the wallets in and on the right hand side

219. 1:42:41

     there's information for new users who are onboarding for the first time so this cover comes in a light and dark theme and we just launched a new model component that's written in plain javascript so either written in angular or view you can use the plain js component and we also have a react component that you can use so we asked you to migrate to the wallace selector in the next few months

220. 1:43:05

     and if you need support the pagoda is having office hours right now so please take advantage and there will be developers who are on hand to support you all right for the wildlife creators as you know there's millions users who are off-boarding from the near wallet so this is a time for you to onboard users so there's couple things that you need to do before you become an option that we can send users to

221. 1:43:29

     so the first thing is we asked you to implement this new feature called import account by private key so this really sits on the other side of what we're doing inside the near wallet we're exporting keys from linear wallet and import into your wallet and second please join the community telegram group which cameron dennis is great has created so here's where we'll provide the latest

222. 1:43:53

     information that's impactful to you as a builder and where we'll be talking about any ps that's going to affect all the wallets and then finally please complete this wallet onboarding form so this tells you about the features you have in your wallet what makes you special as well as your security stands so we have a good understanding of your product so this helps add your wallet to the export list as well as the wallet portal in the future all right so

223. 1:44:24

     so in early october we'll be launching phase one which is when we officially start to off-board users so there are some features that will be launched as part of this transition the first part is we are going to stop account creation so if you're looking to create a new wallet account you cannot create that near wallet you have to go to the other wallets in the ecosystem and also we'll be launching this export

224. 1:44:48

     functionality and makes it really easy and secure for you to migrate your account to another wallet and then wallet creation links such as nft drops and link jobs are going to be redirected and for at this time we're going to keep the major functionalities like a wallet such as sign sign transaction send and receive now so here's a quick look of what this looks like so the user will be informed of the transition within the product itself

225. 1:45:19

     and then if you're a near wallet user will take you through this off-boarding flow and this off-boarding flow we're focusing on security and ease so there's about four steps three of those four steps are about our focusing on security so the first step is we are going to create a new full access key that's added to your account to make sure that no one else has access to that full access key and then the newly generated

226. 1:45:44

     access key will be used to export your account to a different wallet so in this case let's say the user selects sender we're exporting that key to sender once your account is imported in sender you will come back to this flow and then now you're on step three where you're you're looking at all of your full access keys and removing the ones that are not being used so this decreases the attacked surface and make sure that we just keep one full access keys

227. 1:46:15

     on chain and as a last step we're deleting all private keys from the local storage and you're completely logged out of the near wallet so this is the flow all right so in the early part of the next year we'll be changing the product at the wallet da nier.org into a wallet portal so here this is no longer a wallet so we're removing nearly all functionalities of the wallet except the export feature that we just discussed and also you'll be able to see the various

228. 1:46:49

     wallets in the ecosystem and their features and functionalities and then we're shipping a new feature called transaction forwarding and this feature is built to make sure that the dabs in the ecosystem is still working as expected given that near wallet is no longer around at this point and other linked link redirects are going to be supported at the same time so here is what the new portal looks like in the early part of next year so you can see

229. 1:47:20

     a list of wallets in the ecosystem on the left-hand side you can decide what are the specific features that you're looking for and filter for that for those wallets and if you're not sure what those features you're looking for at the top there are categories wallace with beginners as well for nfts d5 so we'll filter down the wallets for you and if you do have keys on this wallet.near.org domain you will see a top banner prompting you to export your keys and this takes you through the

230. 1:47:52

     same flow that we just saw which takes your key and import it into a different wallet all right and then the final feature is the transaction forwarding so the transaction forwarding use case is let's say a user is added the app which has not influenced a wallet selector now they're not able to sign this transaction anymore so when they're taken to the wallet.near.org we pop open the wallace lecture where they can sign in and send a transaction using a

231. 1:48:23

     different wallet so that concludes the phase two so in the final phases of the transition we're going to wind down some of the features that we built earlier so in phase three where we expect most d-apps at this point have moved to wallace lecture we're going to remove this feature now it's very important at this point that the app has implemented wireless selector otherwise it might create a somewhat degraded degraded user experience so please take

232. 1:48:55

     the time to move to wireless selector as soon as possible in the final phase we'll be removing all the keys from this domain as well as removing export functionality so we complete the transition and this page just becomes a portal for wallets so these are the five phases of the transition i hope that provides a lot more information and color in terms of what we're doing and i'll be will be around four questions after this now i will hand over to cameron dennis who will be telling you about some of the

233. 1:49:26

     community initiatives he's working on thank you jane how's it going everybody cameron dennis uh ceo of the banyan collective uh we are a ecosystem management as a service company focused on growing the new ecosystem from a more bottom up way and what does this mean well um or why are we doing this because you know blockchains let's be frank they kind of suck to use and the whole point here is how do we completely abstract that key management away from end users to give them the web to like functionality they're used to in

234. 1:49:58

     web 3. and near i think the killer app is logging in logging in to give people the option to own and claim their data their governance and control of all their assets and the whole point here is we need you to actually help build this future and so you know i've we had an amazing meeting yesterday uh in the bounce house if you don't know the bounce house definitely check it out sweatcoin's doing it and uh we just got a lot of wallet builders together to identify exactly what's missing in the ecosystem

235. 1:50:30

     and what they need to succeed in order to onboard all of these users and provide them that experience like they are used to in web 2. so in order to do so since we live in a remote world we have to have to do this remotely and uh we are going to be running a weekly a monthly working group meeting or community group meeting and a pretty much daily telegram channel uh focused on developers and founders in

236. 1:50:55

     the walla ecosystem and the whole point here is how can we work together to identify the missing gaps for example there's a lot of innovative things that could be created if uh we're all working together and specking out these solutions to suggest at hackathons to get people to build together we can you know create uh standards together to actually push through the amazing working groups

237. 1:51:19

     that have recently been developed and uh last but not least make sure that there's clear paths for communicating all of these critical updates like this talk right here um but for the future and so this is the launch of the wallet community group and uh it really got started about a month ago just kicking it off getting a lot of wallet builders together but now it's formally being organized and it's gonna

238. 1:51:43

     be broken up into three different categories so as i said there's many components to wallets uh onboarding and payments custody and recovery mobile and integration and i'm just going to walk through all these like bit by bit because in onboarding a lot of people especially sort of more more corporate types they need help like i know the open forest protocol team actually works with people from around the world like tribe leaders in africa and you know the amazon trying to get them onboarded to

239. 1:52:14

     near wallets and they have to sit on a call with them to work through what is the seed phrase so that onboarding is there's such a critical point of education here that needs to be streamlined in the user experience and so onboarding and payments will be focusing on this education on simple resistance uh on-ramps and off-ramps because you know you need that ability to actually turn your dollars into crypto or fiat

240. 1:52:39

     payment streaming there's all these really innovative use cases that we just need to work on together to spec them out and then there's a telegram group that group is going to meet every other week and then the custody and recovery group is a little bit more uh tailored for people super interested in a lot of cryptography or implementing existing uh sdks that are being launched by a lot of institutional custodians to sort of help abstract uh again that key management

241. 1:53:09

     away because uh let's be frank beyonce's fans are not going to be using metamask to onboard to the open web we need to give them that that super seamless experience and custody and recovery is a critical piece so this is where we're going to be talking about multi-sig contracts the user experience for multi-sig actually how do you set up that key recovery and then also account extension that elia mentioned before so again that

242. 1:53:35

     group is going to be about every other week this is these groups are intended for founders and developers interested in solving these problems although we do want people to you know everyday users to give their feedback that's going to be a different channel probably independent with each wallet of company and the last one's with mobile integrations because again the world's not going to be carrying a laptop with them to transact we all have

243. 1:53:59

     a lot of us use apple pay on our phones we need this like native mobile experience that neer has actually done an incredible job with in browser like it's it beats every other blockchain in my eyes to in their mobile experience so um there's gonna be a lot of projects currently working on mobile sdks let's make sure that this work doesn't get repeated and everyone's like reinventing the wheel let's make sure that we're just like

244. 1:54:25

     actually collaborating and focusing on things like wallet selector for all the integrations notification protocols like there's so much to be done here which is why we need to break it up into three separate groups and for more context the meetings there's a google calendar that you're able just to subscribe to you'll get access every single week to these meetings and then every month we're going to essentially summarize all of the meetings in a working group call and so this is for people participating in all

245. 1:54:55

     of the calls um just to make sure everyone's on the same page and so all these times are flexible for now i mean like this is pretty much set but like if there is a big portion of the community that can't make it async is totally fine and we're also moving moving the call times but um to be even you know a little bit more tangible there is a hackathon coming up two of them metal build is one online i believe there's over a million dollars worth of

246. 1:55:20

     prizes and so there are these are really clear call to actions for you to start experimenting with these new models of key management and making money for submitting them now if you're looking for something a little bit more physical uh in the unite and are based in the united states are interested in traveling we'll be running a series of hackathons um the first one actually is next week

247. 1:55:42

     the party doesn't stop here if you're in new york next week from asari maynet come by ilya is actually giving a talk and we will be doing this almost every month and the whole point here is we need more tangible call to actions for founders and developers the ecosystem to go deeper and so hackathons are an amazing place uh i really want to offer this amazing opportunity for you guys to submit your own bounties for hackathons we are actually even subsidizing the the costs

248. 1:56:13

     so if you have a really cool idea and you're an early stage wallet that you know might not be totally well funded and you want the community to start hacking away on something specific you can submit that bounty and if we like it we could even put out money on it for the community to build it as long as you judge it so there's a form to fill out i believe if you're part of the wallet working group you've you've received that form

249. 1:56:37

     but this is a schedule for the hackathon series in the united states and um oh yeah again submit your near bounties if you're interested in having that actually be shown up in the next hackathon and that's about it so moving questions yep moving on to questions yeah what's up thank you i have a question regarding volumes themselves is there any particular security recommendations from

250. 1:57:13

     pagada like uh will users say explore wallets before they actually use it like using open source if security orders were done something like that thank you yeah can you can you say it one more time i'm so sorry yeah speak up i i think i think i heard them so the question is is there any particular security advice from pagada like for users before they are using new wallets like if user is open source if they pass security orders and stuff like that like at least very minimum because we are

251. 1:57:58

     talking about uh handling somebody's funds right which is quite serious thank you you'll take security audits yeah yeah so there is a set of requirements that wallets should have that include security requirements yes so you can see the security requirements on the wallet selector github repo at contributing.md this defines the set of requirements that we want wallets to meet and right now it's a list of requirements that you would post on

252. 1:58:28

     either github or website indicating that you have met those requirements and we're also working with the foundation on creating an audit program for the wallets early stages but yes there will be hopefully a program to ensure all wallets well there will be there is a program to show all wallets that are listed on wallet selector are security audited but uh hopefully there's a program to actually help them get those audits as well

253. 1:59:06

     hello uh big thanks to y'all for being here and thank you cameron for having all the great community support i guess i was just curious what's the main motivation behind this shift given that it's pretty fundamental so kind of the concept here obviously is multifold right i think as i mentioned the kind of innovation and onboarding in a way requires that we have more like more tooling indirectly in the app so i think the good example is sweatcoin

254. 1:59:37

     if you have tried using there the account creation happens directly in the app it's very kind of smooth and the account management is in a different app because if you think of it users who are interacting with some application don't always expect to go back and forth between these things and then at the same time we have now a lot of different wallets that are offering various functionality various

255. 2:00:01

     kind of management and kind of trying to innovate and so the idea also to give them the opportunity to have kind of the space to use it right and so that's really the kind of twofold of the transition that's happening and on the community side we have i mean there's so much that near's flexible account model offers and a sort of indicator of this and why the gnosis safe in the ethereum ecosystem recently raised 100 million dollars to build an ecosystem around it near has

256. 2:00:34

     that capability built into the layer one itself and it's been that way since day one but people aren't thinking about how to actually you know leverage this in new and innovative ways so thinking like how can you you know vote on a dow like verifiably by liking a twitter poll how do you manage access keys in a way to interact with apis like these are things that are possible on here but we

257. 2:00:58

     need the community to get together and innovate around it so this is really the launch of uh real activation to really abstract key management away here's the idea for the hackathon turn your account turn an account into nft to be listed on the marketplace and then people can claim it back to get the account back this is actually possible on there okay sounds like it's pretty clear well transition everybody's ready no more no more questions

258. 2:01:37

     we're ready to go right hi awesome thank you everyone thank you thank you cameron jane and ilya for the exciting new future for near wallets next up we have the non-fungible stack what's next in nft technology we have marcus ribeiro from the near foundation we'll be moderating this panel with ben lakoff of charged particles daniel missouri apollo 42 donald santoro for near notes and last but not least henry

259. 2:02:22

     taffela from cheddar i don't know we got five oh sorry that's it oh i think it's uh oh hello hey everybody i'm uh super excited to be able to share the stage with these amazing people that are building some interesting things on nir i'll go ahead and let each of you introduce yourselves and share a little bit about what you're building with the audience we'll start with you yeah sure marcus thank you so much my name is daniel mazurin i'm the founder of apollo

260. 2:03:04

     42 social nft marketplace we're building a web3 hub that is focused on the social aspect of nfts building communities around nfts um you know innovating some stuff in terms of augmented reality will be releasing like a pokemon go thing for near-end of these near nuts too so yeah you know innovating having fun and building for the end of the community in your community it was a very nice journey excellent good stuff um i'm donald santoro the co-founder of neonats

261. 2:03:38

     and we have built a no code solution for launching your own generative nfc collection on your protocol uh it removes the total need for developer and it generates you a complete min page and then anything launched through that will automatically be indexed into our marketplace which is on mainnet now you can check it out astromarket.io um and then you know from there we're creating a little ecosystem where 50 of the revenue generated will get distributed to all the near not holders so that will incentivize them you know

262. 2:04:13

     to to use the marketplace and things like that so we're just trying to create a uh a well-rounded ecosystem that all sort of feeds into each other all right yeah and how many are not holders so yeah um but yeah i'm a henry tafala co-founder of cheddar uh we're a user onboarding experience within near that's really focused on teaching users about near crypto and d5 so we've got like uh known permanent lost pools that users can farm tokens uh from our loyalty

263. 2:04:45

     network partners and uh games nfts uh and you know just a lot of fun out there for users to keep them entertained and active in the ecosystem love it love it and you have the staking right as well so you can you can take nfts yeah you can stick nfts we've got a power-up feature you know with our nft and some things like that and nft staking coming very soon great love it yeah it provides use cases for for nfcs that wouldn't otherwise have them yeah absolutely yeah

264. 2:05:18

     awesome thank you guys um so we have the uh the topic here today i have a couple of discussion oh several discussion points that we can go over ideally if we have any time left over at the end i would like to open the floor up for q a um so we'll see how much time we have left um but breaking the hype cycle how to think long term um so what what is next in nft technology i mean right now

265. 2:05:41

     we have pfps uh we're starting to see other utility like nft ticketing uh but where do you think we'll go from here i think ticketing is a great step in the right direction okay um how many here bought an nft ticket to come here did anybody raise your hand if you did cool that's awesome right on you know and that's the kind of thing we're going for right we want you to be able to use blockchain technology and purchase nfts without thinking about it because we all

266. 2:06:12

     know like when we talk to somebody who's not really involved and not super techy anything like that you say the word blockchain and they stop listening you know they like they check out completely so we have to we have to bring it down in terms that we have to communicate it in a very easily digestible manner that everyone can sort of take in and not even know that they're using nfts right

267. 2:06:36

     so that's uh that's sort of the goal and that will that will help with the you know the mass onboarding and you know onboarding the next billion users and whatnot it's all it's all about behind the scenes using it behind the scenes and you know creating real-life situations where where they're purchasing nfts and they don't even know it right um okay okay well yeah i think that this nfc hype is going to be transformed into a much more utility-based thing right yeah

268. 2:07:10

     so we have all these pfp collections right now that most of them are useless right it's going to zero unfortunately not near nuts no no no no you're not understanding are legendary right but um i think that if we're talking about the nft technology itself the future here is connecting to real life assets uh if we're talking like emerge if you're doing a brand new merch you're gonna connect it to nft and build community around your merch because the nftac allows you basically

269. 2:07:41

     to build anything you want with people who owns it right you can build a community you can make a better access to an application that that you've built if we're talking about the software ticketing right mean base did a very cool thing with the nft tickets too to the near con so yeah i think in this sense we'll see a lot of uh applications being built with nfts and we haven't even talked about social media right now we can see you know

270. 2:08:11

     facebook this meta thing going all into nfts and it's just the first step right yeah definitely imagine you have a web3 social media where every post is an nft and you really owned it right and it's not centralized at all so facebook is a 100 centralized platform and you don't own your content there at all you can they can monetize it as you know as as as much as they can think of so

271. 2:08:43

     so yeah social media and nfts can be also the future and and we're also seeing right now the evolving uh social media platforms in what three as niche for example uh they're building on near particle two and apollo 42 you know it's also a social empty marketplace yes amazing so that's why i'm shilling the social aspect but i really i truly believe in the future of that yeah so so yeah i think yeah good stuff yeah all right so yeah uh the cool thing about near is we don't

272. 2:09:14

     have much of a hype cycle you know that's really good so there's no shill no pump no dump no exit scams that's something i've always been proud of being part of a near near because of that so but in terms of how we break that and build beyond the hype i think you know what we've been talking about is nft utility so how do we take these nfts now and make them unlock things within the near verse

273. 2:09:39

     you know how do we use them as keys how do we um then take those and build additional utility on cheddar we did something kind of interesting and it's kind of one of the first features on near like that we have a concept of a power up so if you own one of our chatty mascot nfts you can boost your farming and power up your farming on the yield farm so i think finding dynamic ways to build utility that then we can spread throughout the ecosystem so that multiple projects can

274. 2:10:10

     join in more of a nft utility as a service type thing yeah and find those markets that really will provide utility across the board that's going to be really our key yeah definitely and i mean i think pfps in general are just a great jumping off point for nfts you know because we've all made an account somewhere or an avatar an xbox playstation whatever you know what i mean and you set the profile picture and

275. 2:10:34

     you know everyone does it of whatever um you know and if we can what we are doing and you know this whole pfp kind of movement in a way it's just it's a great jumping off point to open the door uh to sort of create a familiar experience right with you know instead of just galloning an image off google or whatever it is you know you have your own there's only one in existence you know it's it's

276. 2:10:58

     it's yours the proof is on the blockchain you know and this is my personal avatar or whatever it is um i don't know i could go all day yeah it's good though yeah i mean yeah for sure cool no some really really interesting points um now i'm just curious i mean for the nft space to grow uh what are some really large gaps we currently have in the space that need to be filled in order to make nfts usable in the real world to

277. 2:11:22

     facilitate onboarding um i think a big thing would be getting like institutions like um okay so your id and your passport and things like that right if you can turn that into a digital asset that's tied to you right you can you know remove the need to carry that thing around you can have it all digitally or whatever it is and it's you know it's tied to you via whatever transaction you made from your bank account or whatever it is however they want to verify it you know what i mean but anything can be an nft

278. 2:11:55

     okay we just have to when we say nft like i said when you say blockchain people stop listening you know if they're not familiar with it so we just have to kind of call it we have to communicate it right in an easily digestible way that someone can just understand someone 60 years old right who doesn't know anything who just calls all of crypto the bitcoin right something that you know get them on nfts without them even

279. 2:12:18

     knowing i mean it's the same thing as like when the internet was around in the 90s most people same thing mention it they just kind of walk away they didn't know what to do with it and then now everybody from your mom to your grandma's now on facebook so yeah you know just kind of making it familiar to people i mean what are your thoughts and there was a lot of thought around internet in the 90s right we we had articles that said literally internet is for bad people right we're

280. 2:12:42

     seeing the same thing with web free and it's very funny how you know human psychology works yeah yeah if you look at it mobile phones were in the same context right when the phone came out we had a few apps there was nothing really to do you're like what is this it's probably not gonna take off but now it's a tool that we use every day nfts blockchain technology it'll be the same thing on the adoption cycle so yes i think you know if we can like look at like social eight which evgeny had a talk on today about you

281. 2:13:15

     know how you create a profile across the near verse well then how do we take that and put nfts at the heart of it so you can literally have your profile picture throughout the near verse across your profiles that folks integrate in so that would be one way but yeah i mean it's just building this utility that like what do i do with this beautiful jpeg right yeah that i have so um and that's going to evolve and continue to expand over time yeah no definitely and that was a great analogy with the phone thing right it's uh

282. 2:13:46

     what and in marcus says this all the time and so the analogy is what we're doing is equivalent to like when the iphone came out a long time ago and everyone was like there were articles about why it was going to fail how it was a poor business model and whatever but people were still developing applications on the iphone they were still building things on that um and then you know long behold here we

283. 2:14:08

     are right and everyone has an iphone and if you don't you know you get green messages and all that so um yeah that was a great analogy 100 yeah well i mean the reality is that the the nft market will strengthen and grow and it's easier for for more people to adopt and i know you you touched upon it a few times don uh where if if we make it easy enough for people to kind of buy an nft or use

284. 2:14:31

     an nft without even knowing they're doing it um it's kind of inevitable um that that it's gonna be more familiar it's gonna be more adoptable so i'd love to hear your thoughts as developers and builders in the nft space on any potential solutions to make the nft journey less complicated and more recognizable to the masses i've got one i sort of just thought of now okay you make a credit card transaction any transaction you usually get a paper

285. 2:14:54

     receipt okay at some places now you sign up for digital receipts that is essentially in nft there's a there's a you know transaction or whatever so but you don't really see where it came from you can't really track it you can't do any of that sort of thing but with on the blockchain you can see where it was generated from where it went to all the steps along the way and there's no hiding from it you know what i mean so

286. 2:15:18

     it would be a very easy situation to create where like if you know you sign up for a digital receipt it sends you the nft to whatever you know so if you could partner with some sort of i don't know walgreens or whatever it is i don't know what they have i mean starbucks already has the uh the punch cards you know you go in they have the membership points already on their app i mean you can easily integrate that that sort of thing into web3 it's just kind of getting the adoption so i mean what

287. 2:15:43

     are your thoughts dan and uh henry yeah yeah so it's just kind of along those same lines it's like what how do we take what this technology is move it beyond just a profile picture and find the real use cases right i mean in some instances it'll develop into assets an asset class that can be used for financial instruments some of them are going to be code bases with dynamic architectures

288. 2:16:06

     you know on the pfp level we'll have evolving nfts that aren't just going to be static anymore so there's going to be a lot of implications that take place in the next few years about taking this technology and really making it something that's adaptable it can have lots of different financial or business aspects maybe it's a contract that you exchange right and at nft level so there's a lot of thoughts out there but you know it will probably

289. 2:16:35

     be used in both business and finance over time and move beyond just the profile picture yeah 100 i'm a strong believer in that as well i mean i can easily see properties uh medical records etc living on the blockchain as well i mean sure are we a long way from that probably but i mean it's it's kind of inevitable with the with the technology and the way it works i believe you were going to say something then yeah um i think we're moving in the right direction right now with nfts because even when you know the

290. 2:17:01

     first nft marketplace uh openc they made an interface where you um where you don't need to like may go into the smart contract thing right you just upload an image and it's live right it's a nft you can mint it separately but it's live someone can buy it yes i think we're moving in the right direction and i can see appearance of many layers uh protocols and applications that allow you to build your whole collections and projects

291. 2:17:32

     around nfts utilize it in some way i can see an appearance of the project that says all right you have a physical asset make it digital asset right with nfts i think you know and a lot of people are doing right now we just don't see it properly because it's not live yet but you know in the near future we can see how um you know nfts will be evolving with real-life assets and in terms of

292. 2:17:55

     nfts as a way to build communities i think we'll see the new new new evolution of protocols built onto on the chains that allow you to use nfts not only as a token but also as an entrance to some uh communities platforms uh applications ios applications android applications i don't know how we can merge web 2 with that three that's the question you know everyone's asking so so yeah

293. 2:18:27

     i oh sorry go ahead oh no no go ahead well yeah i was going to say like i think you know the whole merging web 2 to web 3 will be so much easier if we start you know we say mint and nft mint is another word that when you tell somebody that they don't get it they don't get what it is you know what i mean so we just have to say like buy just call it buying or you know what i mean or create i guess and just put it in layman's terms and that will help adoption exponentially

294. 2:18:51

     because obviously here we're all on the same page we can all nerd out and you know talk about and get intricate about everything you know what i mean and we all understand it but ninety percent of people don't and they think you know that they thought it and do whatever it is you know but we have to just put it into terms that that everybody already knows you know yeah i want to come back to the point because i was just thinking as we were talking like how can we summarize this like some of the major

295. 2:19:14

     categories that are going to present themselves are things like proof of humanity proof of attendance right proof of ownership right so those are going to be some of the things that we'll see kind of nfts begin to divulge into and i think proof of identity or proof of humanity is a pretty big one and the co-founder of cheddar right now is actually working on that in the hackathon because we think

296. 2:19:39

     that's a critical you know topic that needs to be addressed so like proof of attendance is another one you were here at near khan you've got the the the nft yeah so therefore you're a person right because you had to attend so we're going to see some markets like that to begin the emerge that really use this technology better yeah definitely and like imagine right i mean the first thing i thought of was like license and

297. 2:20:04

     registration right you know cop pulls you over or just whenever you have to provide your license and registration okay imagine if you could do it you know instead of having to go through your glove box or whatever it was to look for this piece of paper that's probably all crumpled up and like you're stressing out because you can't find it you could just pull out your phone open your

298. 2:20:19

     wallet and you say here this is my license and they could like scan it or something like that and it's in their database or whatever it is and it would streamline you know the entire process of you know you know finding out someone who someone is or you know you go through security and at the airplane i mean the airport uh you show them your your passport they look at your face they do the whole thing you know but if you can have it sort of all on one thing digitally you don't have to carry around this old

299. 2:20:46

     outdated book anymore to go flying a plane you know and i it like no exactly and there's like a lot of issues obviously with like passports and identifications being forged whereas blockchain's immutable obviously we also have people developing like like proof of identity to kind of verify those things as well so um it's like an extra layer of protection um i do have one last talking point i want to spice things up a little bit um i'd love to hear kind of your

300. 2:21:09

     your your thoughts um so as we all know uh here on stage as well as in the audience um nier's technology is uh unprecedented however as each of you are building on near in the nft space i'd actually love to hear about some of the current gaps or blockers that you've identified that if addressed would bolster the nft growth and development on here okay um i guess you know some gaps that i

301. 2:21:34

     think could be filled would be the the difficulty in finding people to help you create the stuff technically like on the technical side you know because we have all these ideas and we can communicate them but we have nobody to create them for us right and there it's very hard you know near is uh it's a language is rust right and it's it's obviously script as well so say now we have javascript yeah so actually yeah that's right so now if you know javascript with the near javascript sdk you can now build on near

302. 2:22:07

     which is absolutely amazing and now i have to look into uh some javascript developers and you know which is actually never mind take away that gap we just filled it right like i said it's it's unprecedented yeah it's unprecedented absolutely 100 how about you henry yeah so the tech is is definitely here i would say that one of the challenges that we have is it still is very highly technical to launch in nft so we're techs at heart but when we

303. 2:22:32

     went to launch our nft and thank goodness for like tank dao that went out there and put out the contract code for people to do that so i think we'll see just the evolving um development of making it easier to launch nfts and there's a lot of people working on that right now so to make it easy for the end user so that's probably one of the gaps and then how do we just bring parity

304. 2:22:56

     between all of the nfts right so how do we bring more community consensus instead of you know making those bridges to build that utility that's probably another gap for us and if we solve that nft as a service nft as a utility gap then near's really going to shine as we do in many other areas in this one as well so yeah agreed yeah i think i think the real gap uh well we we see a lot of innovation around nfts right now so we have like nft collection that are building their

305. 2:23:30

     own decentralized application which is pretty innovative uh you know on year i've never seen it on any other chain like even on salad or ethereum so we have like uh near knots building asteroids we have classic and guru uh building jump defy right we have kaiser fighters building dojo finance so we have a lot of a lot of that stuff but i think the real gap here is the founders mindset so we say all right there is no liquidity right now in your nfts right we'll just have to wait you

306. 2:24:04

     know people will come near foundation will do something no man that doesn't work like that we have to do as a project founders on board new people from other chains yes outside of crypto on both new artists onboard educate people look what be experienced doing right so i think we have to change this mindset that the time will come and we'll just build yes of course we have to build we

307. 2:24:29

     have to innovate we have to do many things around our product make this product as best as possible but besides that we have to onboard new people and make this liquidity on our project by ourselves yeah because and i have an example right uh pars for example we have so many people from um from from asia because of paris yes they came to the nft space because paris made many uh like

308. 2:24:56

     marketing campaigns uh on the on the in the asian side of the world and you know i respect them for that right and we have to do the same i'm not talking about like local marketing but in general we have to onboard new people selling you know your friends not only on social media but also making some campaigns around it and if you know it's small steps by every everyone makes a

309. 2:25:21

     very big step in terms of onboarding new people and making liquidity on the market that's how we will win as a as a chain let's say yeah yeah i agree i agree and we still are in our infancy here you know what i mean we're still ironing things out adding more nodes you know reaching that max tps once all the nodes are around and everything like that so while i you know the liquidity definitely will come okay but yes you're right we do have to we do have to do better onboarding

310. 2:25:53

     internally with our with our own projects and you know if we work together you know you where are you from i'm from russia okay yeah yeah so you can you know target the the russian community and everything like that i can try to target like the american community because you know peras has got that whole the asian and the malaysian area and the you know the philippines and they've you know that's where the majority of the user base is and they absolutely crushed it and they're nailing it you know so if we can

311. 2:26:17

     all do our part to get near in your protocol and spread it all over the world and also i just want to say it was dope to come here in lisbon and see near near con signs everywhere that's the coolest thing ever you know what i mean um it's just you know it's cool it's surreal it's real it is pretty surreal and uh it's been a great turnout i really appreciate each and every every one of you coming to listen to the talk and i appreciate you coming on stage as

312. 2:26:39

     well unfortunately we are at time uh once again i am marcus uh from the near foundation uh we have dan from apollo 42 don from near knots and henry from cheddar thank you all thank you thank you guys very much thank you dan don and henry for the future of nfts and nfts on near specifically our next session is about breaking up the studios and how web 3 will be disrupting hollywood

313. 2:27:22

     our speakers are austin warrell from kino app xyz and daryl fannin from kino app xyz as well actually ah love it all right take a clicker thank you i've got all the control i love it amazing well hello everybody and welcome uh my name is austin warrell my co-founder dale fannin yeah nice to meet you uh austin is a uh founder of a token charity token did 300 or 500 million

314. 2:28:26

     market cap 500 000 holders uh also usc gould school of law london school of economics and my co-founder dale is an executive producer who has sold shows and netflix with the likes of matt damon and peter berg most recently he sold a sewed to abc disney with jimmy kimmel he actually currently back in la where we're from has a movie premiere with sylvester stallone that we're skipping to be here so it's good to be with everybody uh the weather's a bit better here than it was in l.a it's

315. 2:28:51

     a little bit cooler so we're excited to chat today about the future of film and television breaking up the studios rebuilding hollywood based off of better technology better law and better economics darrell there are like three primary problems we're going to talk about today for why hollywood can be benefited by web three in particular the economics and the systems that we're building at kino and others in the quote unquote film three space are doing so

316. 2:29:13

     let's get into it yeah problem number one for me is inequity for artists there's a lot of uh there's a lot of money that's being made in film tv but it's not necessarily going to the people who are creating it so can you tell us a little bit about the term hollywood account sure sure i'll try not to geek out about the law aspect too much even though that is my training but ultimately it's how big entertainment corporations essentially

317. 2:29:36

     avoid taxes uh that's the nice way to say it so nobody sues me and then they also don't have to pay the artists who have the rights to profits in what we call quote unquote the back end so the corporations maximize their profit flow but the artists are the ones who ultimately unfortunately get screwed over yeah so let's talk about some of my favorite examples uh lord of the rings some of you may have heard of it made for 281 million dollars it brought

318. 2:30:00

     in six billion in the global box office uh and it actually was reported a horrendous loss they said that that that entire trilogy lost millions of dollars which means that peter jackson who was supposed to get seven and a half percent on that 5.8 billion profit got nothing and that's absolutely insane to me another great example is bohemian rhapsody made for around 55 million dollars brought in about 900 million in the global box office in revenue and yet they said it was a 51 million

319. 2:30:31

     dollar loss again that's great for the corporations that are making these projects but it's terrible for the artists because we don't see the royalties that were promised and let's be very clear these franchises made billions and billions of dollars for the corporations however because of accounting practices hollywood accounting and unfortunately a lot of my friends who are entertainment lawyers they used you know clever legal and economic practices to ensure their profits because they have the leverage

320. 2:30:55

     in the systems that they're a part of right let's move on to the next slide and talk about how you know ultimately uh did you i got you not too great at this you know this is one of the biggest well-known secrets in hollywood right if you all googled right now hollywood accounting there's a whole wikipedia article you're going to see the examples we just mentioned there are plenty more however nobody talks about it until we found a couple tweets ed solomon the creator of men in black he's talking about how he never saw any of

321. 2:31:20

     his back-end rights to future prophets and in fact now they're telling him that it's in the red that he probably owes them money right and it's like men in black made millions and billions of dollars right but he didn't see any of that extra profit yeah it's insane to me i have so many friends who have created uh shows so i'm going to give a couple of examples without giving specifics so we don't get sued but i have a friend of mine who created a a billion dollar franchise for

322. 2:31:44

     a very well-known studio a billion dollars and he made six hundred thousand dollars i have another friend who had one of the most watched shows on a streaming uh network that you're very familiar with 480 million views in just a few months and this guy is struggling to pay his rent not not his mortgage his rent that's incredibly uh wrong to me because these people are creating value

323. 2:32:09

     but they're not receiving the dividends in in that they're deserving like you put your heart and energy and soul into this artwork but because you only have a handful of places to go you don't actually get the back end which is heartbreaking so what is the solution then uh i'm sorry i went a little fast uh better economics that's it through web three now is the time we finally have the technology to facilitate a better structure in hollywood much like other

324. 2:32:34

     industries that we're seeing disruption due to web 3. web3 gives the chance for greater ownership of artists of their own art and it also gives the chance for us to give everyone who's on set from the director down to the new kid on the block who's a pa assistant is just getting into the industry everyone can succeed together you know as us founders of a technology company that's venture-backed that everybody who joins our company gets shares right because all of us when we are motivated to

325. 2:32:59

     succeed together uh we win right we we crush what we're building we're all excited because we all know that we profit together and we believe a win-win scenario is the kind of economics that we need to bring to the hollywood space yeah you know this brings up a great point right now royalties only go to a handful of people at the top so the executive producers maybe the director a few named actors those are the people who get what we call back end but with this new economic model we're able to

326. 2:33:24

     give everyone who works on a project so it doesn't matter if you've been in hollywood for 20 years and everybody knows your name or you're a pa who steps on and this is your first day on set if you're creating art that people consume if you're helping create billions of dollars in value then you deserve to receive a bit of that and it makes me think you know the stunt drivers this is one of the things that absolutely kills me there are people who have literally

327. 2:33:47

     died making this incredible piece of art and yet they see no financial profit on the back end of the value that they're creating and web 3 allows us to change that what's that there's actually a term in the industry what does what's it called daryl uh what's above the line right yeah about the line so if you're above the line you're you're going to make some profit you're going to get some royalties below the line forget about it yeah i mean with web3 we can erase the line everybody can succeed together right and we're able to do that through blockchain yeah which

328. 2:34:13

     again comes to sort of what is it that's solving the problem right you're talking a lot in philosophical terms it is the blockchain itself uh coming from a legal background i get excited my favorite class in law school was contracts right that was the that was the the trust protocol that existed back in the day how did we do things in life how did i go and buy david's laptop who's sitting there in the fifth row i would say here's 100 bucks give me that laptop it doesn't look like it's worth very much and we

329. 2:34:37

     trusted each other because we'd write it down but unfortunately my professors teach us the best contract is one page i haven't seen a damn contract that's one page there are hundreds of pages they're very complex our systems have become so complicated that it's inaccessible and so now we have the chance with smart contracts which frankly right now are pretty dumb but if we have a lot of people like myself who are excited about blockchain and have the right legal training we can work with brilliant engineers to create

330. 2:35:01

     smart contracts that actually are able to handle complex transactions like putting together a film production on-chain automated transparent and it's going to do all the things that you see above me it's going to reduce transaction costs it's going to create accessibility to anybody that wants to start a company or a film production it's going to create seamless automated rights pathways and it's going to create embedded transparency and accountability which is huge for combating things like

331. 2:35:24

     funny accounting businesses in hollywood i get so excited about this because it is really providing opportunities and the other thing that we're able to do is we're able to bring the community the fans all of us can come together to support these projects and we're able to bring them in and you know you wrote your thesis on community-based economics let's talk a little bit about that my professors thought i was crazy when i wrote a law school thesis about web three but community-based economics is

332. 2:35:48

     the term that i put together in the paper that i wrote saying how you know in my last project social impact it was called elongate if anybody's ever heard of that it was on the binance smart chain blew up we donated over 4 million to charity we had over 500 000 holders based off of a meme and we did a whole lot of good in the world and that opened my eyes to the power of community in web 3. that is the big differentiator you know we look at web 2 social movements right i would go and like something that

333. 2:36:12

     i believe in web 3 is the power of the like plus the financial right i don't just like something i can put my money behind it and that's powerful we're able to empower artists through community-based economics and what we call fan demand right that ability to say i like you and put my money behind you usually film companies do that after the movie's made i'm gonna sell you a t-shirt i'm gonna sell you a ticket you can come to this theme park whatever but the reality is that all of us as humans if we love

334. 2:36:36

     an artist or we love a story we have the demand to come in earlier and what we do at keno and what film three is doing is saying we can pre-sell that fan to man when the idea is just a script and you can get excited and you can put your money behind it and buy that ticket to the red carpet premiere two years early or buy a share in the film and you participate in the profits or you could buy the right to a prop you know from the film itself and that money we take at the beginning it goes directly to the

335. 2:37:00

     artist so you know that it's empowering people and then the film that you're excited about gets to be made yeah the other thing that's really uh cool about this is that it brings the fans in and and we have a real loss of fan connection in our industry where you know the example that we talk about all the time is squid game which i absolutely love you know the most watched show in the world here in square game yeah everybody familiar yes everybody two years seeing game of thrones yeah yeah just about

336. 2:37:26

     everybody does everybody remember when game of thrones came out that thing was like we talked about it for a year right like i had friends that would go they would travel city by city the cast and crew and you could meet them and ask them questions squid game existed in the zeitgeist for like a couple weeks you know and that's a problem due to binge culture of the streamers but also due to this fact that we have such high intensities of capital from the studios flowing into just hits

337. 2:37:51

     and hits and hits without communities it's untested ip that they're just throwing out they're hoping that we're going to eat it up for a day and then move on and move on right and what's really sad again looking at the the value that was created by squid game uh the creator of this show brought in about 900 million dollars almost a billion dollars of value to netflix and again made a few hundred thousand dollars on that they never paid him outside of this original contract where they come in and they buy it all up and

338. 2:38:16

     that is such a shame because this is an amazing show it created so much value and joy for all of us when we were stuck in the pandemic and we had nothing to do and we're binging and and now i look at this creator and i go most of us don't know his name most of us haven't talked about it we haven't seen the interviews with him and it's not because he isn't creating amazing talented like beautiful art it's just because uh it exists in the cultural zeitgeist for so short that

339. 2:38:41

     he doesn't even get his time in the limelight i mean there's like other tangential effects right like there's less impact on culture we're not talking about the stories that are being made for very long they're not impacting cultural change and at kino we believe that storytelling is the number one way to enact change worldwide it's what allows us to literally be put in the same room as somebody who doesn't look like us a story that we've never heard of before a fact that we didn't hear

340. 2:39:05

     right and because we're only talking about film and tv for a day at a time or a week at a time the cultural impact is so much less let alone from a business perspective it's a lot harder to sell t you know t-shirts to you that have a squid on them if we only talked about it for a week it's a lot easier to sell you literal iron thrones for years on end because we talked about it for so long so there are so many iterative points that it's so crucial that we bring community back in and we expand that

341. 2:39:29

     time that stories live in our culture so how do we do that yeah the solution of course is community as we talked about it's the democratization of hollywood it's bringing fans in from the beginning it's it's i mean like everybody here probably has a list on on netflix uh my sisters make fun of me because i always add things to my list but i never watch them because i just want to save them but you know we all have our niches like you might be a horror person you might

342. 2:39:52

     be a thriller you might be a hallmark movie lover one of our friends was telling us that's the only kind of movie she watches uh we won't judge her for that but right like we all have our niches which means we can create communities around that we can support the kind of art that we love in particular and by supporting it we're furthering it and we're expanding that opportunity to see more of the things that we love yeah and the other thing is that we don't get just to watch this as a fan but we also get to participate in

343. 2:40:15

     the upside so for the first time fans can actually engage in a financial model where they can reap the rewards by finding that artist and championing that underrepresented story well the other cool thing too when we're working with emmy nominated awarded oscar etc artists in our 10 films and tv shows that we're going to start launching at the end of the year when we speak to these different artists they are struggling with a problem of lack of fan loyalty yeah because they're

344. 2:40:40

     combating a world where literally my little sister is and myself as well are scrolling on tick tock and watching videos that last 30 seconds and forgetting about who was on them right like our attention span is so short that that loyalty for somebody that relies on loyalty for a living they rely on views they rely on you caring about the art that they're making has been so shortened that the power of community brings back that loyalty generation yeah

345. 2:41:02

     the other thing is as a creator uh when i'm taking a show out to netflix or disney or any distributor one of the first things that they ask about is the built-in audience it's why we're seeing so much that's on this repeat ip pattern where it's like oh yeah we're going to see this you know the the 38th uh iteration of x film and it's not because uh it's not because it's a great idea underlying it it's because at the end of the day they want to know that there's

346. 2:41:27

     an audience and with web3 we can say hey look here's here's proof that there's an audience there are 10 000 people who have put hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars into seeing this and then we can take that and leverage the best possible distribution deal to make sure that we can see this idea around the world our last problem centralization everybody's favorite word in web 3 right i really love centralization well there's the reality

347. 2:41:50

     that they've called it the big five ever since the 20s when you know hollywood studios came about it still exists there are acquisitions happening every single day and the funnel keeps getting tighter and tighter and that means frankly that there are basically a couple handful of white dudes in la determining what stories we all get to see and we don't think that's right yeah it's messed up because it also allows like very talented individuals like when i think of jordan peele and what he was able to do with get out a very low

348. 2:42:14

     budget film that went gangbusters and he had such a hard time getting that off the ground it's absolutely insane to me because these diverse stories are being overlooked just because it's like oh we don't know you we're not sure if there's an audience here for this and and web3 changes that and it also gives artists more control again because once things are acquired by the big studios at the very beginning it's out of the artist's hands and it's no longer up to them when we're able to give that control back the

349. 2:42:39

     art is returned to the artist and that's pretty cool we're excited that at the end of the day decentralization through web3 is going to solve so many of these different issues that we've sort of run through here today it's going to put greater representation on screen which in a world today that has become so tribalistic mainly because of web 2. we are now able to bring us all into communities and to explore people that don't look like us act like us love like us live like us all of that speak like

350. 2:43:04

     us right and when we put those faces together in communities there's going to be a whole lot of social good that comes with it one of my favorite film and tv creators norman lear he's been creating tv shows since like the 60s he's 100 years old still making tv but he was putting people of color on screen in a time when that was not accepted by general society and we didn't know it but as we were watching it the the people who were innately racist were watching people of color and then their

351. 2:43:28

     empathy centers were triggered as they were watching these stories and they began to be compelled by their life journeys and that's the power of storytelling and web 3 enables just such a broad scope of story i'm so excited i mean ultimately what we say often at kino is that artists in a 212 billion dollar industry shouldn't struggle and to be very clear we are not here today to say that all the studios should go

352. 2:43:50

     away and they shouldn't exist we are here today to say that the pie of entertainment can be expanded and all of us can jump in and that the trillions of dollars that we all collectively worldwide have ourselves as individuals we can put that to empowering the next generation of artists to tell the stories that the world needs to hear so they get paid properly so that they can own their art properly so that people can be impacted in the way that film and

353. 2:44:14

     tv and entertainment was meant to do and you can participate in the upside of that which is very exciting we love we got a few minutes left love to open it up to questions if anybody wants to do a quick q and a uh microphone over here ask away it's your chance to ask an executive producer at netflix and abc disney i'm not exciting so don't ask me anything but uh ask anything about hollywood web 3 what we're doing yeah up in the front hi guys

354. 2:44:37

     uh thanks for the presentation so my my main concern with like making industries more community based and decentralized is that like obviously you're taking out the middlemen or certain third parties that are um essential for some uh artists or or film directors or movies or whatever so how do you go about this like don't you think there's going to be a lot of filmmakers or or actors that are going to be struggling promoting their uh their works um

355. 2:45:10

     as well as distributing because they don't have the right connections or resources yeah so web3 actually fixes this so as a guy who's created both independent films again one that's being uh the the red carpets happening like while i'm here uh and also big huge studio shows as a filmmaker when i come in if i can say hey i've got 10 000 loyal audiences with the kino model we can actually show like look there's hundreds of thousands

356. 2:45:34

     of social media impressions we have a massive audience for this it makes it easier to get distribution it's a lot simpler when i can prove that there's there's a bunch of people who have invested and if you participate in the upside you better believe that you're going to help market that uh in the long term does that make sense yeah definitely yeah thanks thanks a lot great question thank you yeah uh anyone else i see a hand way in the

357. 2:45:56

     back there you got a sprint hello thanks for the presentation uh you mentioned that one film bohemian reps buddy was a did the 10x in revenue but was reported doing 50 million loss can you explain this i didn't really understand thanks i would absolutely love to so bunch of my friends who are lawyers and entertainment this is what they do they'll sit down with a studio and they'll set up different entities right so you have the parents let's call it

358. 2:46:31

     dis flicks they have the parent entity and then they own another one let's call it luke rings films and then they have uh a film that they call lord of the stars uh lord of the stars was massively popular in 10x but what uh dis flicks did is they started charging lord of the stars ten thousand dollars a month for a parking spot true story happened to him yeah then they charge you marketing budgets and they do this thing where they basically suck all the life out of

359. 2:46:55

     the bottom entity they can write it off as a loss for the bottom entity not pay taxes off that they take the profits and then those who have the rights to profits in that particular film not in the parent company they then don't have the right they don't have anything right like we actually have a friend a partner who's doing a show on our platform who actually got a bill from a particular comedy network uh that was

360. 2:47:17

     pretty obvious that told him that he owed them millions of dollars when he owned 10 of the production right like like it's a billion dollar there are plenty of commercials he knows that it's making money but it was their way of saying hey don't even try this man we're gonna we're gonna tie you up in court for years they can also give each other loans which is absolutely insane and then charge an agrees an egregious rate for those loans so it's literally like hey i'm gonna charge my self-interest

361. 2:47:42

     and make all this money back and then they show a red at this bottom entity which is great again for taxes but it's terrible for the artists because we don't see your contacts too i'm printing the example right now we were talking about this yesterday one studio loaned one of its other entities and charged a 40 interest 40 i mean that's not even that's nowhere near market rate in hollywood let alone the world uh so it's it's practices like that yeah great question great question thank you guys i think we're out of time here yeah

362. 2:48:07

     uh thank you so much uh we'd love to talk to you afterwards find us we'll uh yeah xyz if you'd like to learn more about how keno is changing hollywood for the better follow us at austin seaworld at daryl fannin thank you again and enjoy nier con everybody thank you so much thank you austin thank you daryl that was kino app xyz am i pronouncing it right kino app kino app xyz great and they're revolutionizing the world of

363. 2:48:41

     hollywood and bringing back decentralization in a very centralized infrastructure now is break time we have a 30-minute break go enjoy all the booths go enjoy the gamers lounge enjoy sweatcoin token generation events have fun i'll see you in 30 minutes welcome back everyone i hope you've had a nice break and you got to see some of the great booths we have a dao topic now with the dao

364. 2:49:12

     team how cell gp is evolving in sports ownership and here joining us on stage is jordan gray from astrodow todd reynolds from cell gp and moderating is chris gent from near foundation all right hello guys uh hopefully you guys heard a little bit about cell gp and what we're doing on the main stage yeah but we wanted to take a little bit of time and go a little bit deeper on the dow we don't have a ton of time but we also want to let you guys ask a couple questions and poke can go a little deeper if you do have thoughts or things

365. 2:49:56

     you want to know but with that i'm chris jen work with the nero foundation work really closely with the sale gp team on go to market but also product integration i'd love to these guys to introduce themselves yeah i'm todd ronald i've got i think the coolest job in web3 i get to combine my two passions so uh sailboat racing and web3 and figuring out how we build the future of fandom hey i'm jordan gray i love building networks of value and i've had the

366. 2:50:20

     opportunity to do that with astro dao where we have launched over 700 dows and have between 100 and 200 monthly active dials at any time and this is such an exciting use case i can't wait to get into it awesome so so with that you know we really want to talk about what is ownership uh what is participation in sport uh why are we even looking at this and so to start i'd love to to have the

367. 2:50:42

     teams talk a little bit about when you're thinking about dowse and technology use cases and that kind of stuff how do you actually apply it why are we even doing it why are we looking at sport to begin with so i think even todd it'd be great to chat a little bit about like from a commercial aspect like what does it take to do something like this in a sports league yeah so our thesis is that web3 really can provide

368. 2:51:04

     value to fans uh and an integrated fan loyalty and so we're building integrated technology to bring bring rewards on chain but really we're focused on what we think is the ultimate fan loyalty platform and the dow owen team yeah and and so thinking about that like jordan you've been working on dallas for a long time like what do you think that the most exciting part about this is and what do you think the biggest challenge is

369. 2:51:28

     yeah i think that probably the most exciting thing is that engagement the fact that this is a tool that brings people together and allows them to with these financial primitives interact with each other in new ways and have sovereignty and all these mechanics and the hardest part about that is that governance is hard and it's something that everybody has to figure out when they're bringing themselves to an organization is what

370. 2:51:51

     what am i bringing and what will i get back out of it and finding that nuance with large groups of people is is not easy well and thinking beyond like consensus and traditional governance like ownership in and of itself is hard right decision making's hard raising capital is hard and so when you think about a sports team and the size of something like this and to think it could be put into a dow i mean the dollar value of this is like

371. 2:52:16

     it's significant it's nine digits so when you think about this todd like and you're thinking commercial like what do you think is the biggest challenge here yeah i mean i think the how you do um the there's a couple different elements right there is the cell gp is a global racing league right we have international global teams competing around the world ultimately we this is just another team most of those teams are owned by individuals or a group of individuals

372. 2:52:52

     but in a really small way what we think the opportunity is around a dow is how do you how do you distribute that to a much larger group of people of ownership group but also to the entire fan community right sport is ultimately about building uh passionate fans right when we think about the green bay packers and the nfl they're one of the smallest markets in the nfl yet they're one of the highest valued teams and and that is ultimately because they

373. 2:53:15

     have one of the most passionate fan bases we think that a dow is going to let us do that in sale gp and build the most passionate fan base for sale gp and ultimately i think one of the most valuable teams in sale gp yeah so i know that russell mentioned that you guys have amended your participation agreements and all of that stuff to allow something like this to happen and i think it's not understated that existing leagues that have existed for a long time and have complex commercial

374. 2:53:40

     structures actually have to change their entire way of operating i think something like cell gp actually is offering us an opportunity to almost do it from scratch and frankly with ease and in a shorter amount of time like jordan i know applications of dows are something that you focused on but also from a legal perspective like what does it take to do this i know you guys are working with proskauer rose yeah so that so that's exactly it so sale gp the way that we govern the teams

375. 2:54:04

     is through what we call our participation agreement and so it's like the concord agreement in f1 ultimately sale gp we set the rules for the global league we talk about how do you have fair racing how do you have consistent racing how do you run the teams around the world but it's up to the teams to actually come together and uh and form their racing team and so what we have done and i think we're the first global league to do this is actually amend the

376. 2:54:28

     rules of sale gp to allow and encourage a doubt a form and own and operate a sale gp team top to bottom yeah i think it's an awesome opportunity there's many sports styles that have come into existence and attempts that have been done at this where there's a lot of people who are excited about the idea of team ownership but when it comes to the league level there's actually no interface there for them to

377. 2:54:51

     participate with and what sale gp is doing is opening the doors and saying not that we're making a dow team but we're open to the idea of a doubt owning a team and just opening those doors is already amazing and when we're riffing on like the complications of these things um through the dow cubator program where we take dows through like five phases of how to like establish themselves and what their mission and vision is

378. 2:55:16

     it's usually the mission and vision which is the hardest part to get down on paper even before anything touches the blockchain and i love the amount of thinking and the minds that have come together to make this possible something that has never been done before like this is way finding yeah and so that's right what the cell gp participation amendment uh does is it forms the framework for a dow to form

379. 2:55:40

     right and so when we first started this we had this idea that we'd like to do a dow we weren't sure it was gonna be possible we've now done a body of work a lot of that's legal focused on okay how do you actually do a dow loan team it's a reg d offering it's a security uh but and that that has certain frameworks that that then puts in place but you take a step back and you say okay how do we make sure that this is actually mass engagement where everybody can be

380. 2:56:04

     involved and and that's what the framework agreement ultimately outlines it says sale gp will have a dow owned team it says that dow must have a constitution that lays out how it can operate it is an ownership token is a security right it has to operate under a u.s securities law a reg d offering but it also says that it has to have a governance method that is open to everybody so there's ultimately two

381. 2:56:28

     classes of tokens required and a class a token that is a security ownership stake and class b that is a governance token that anybody can own from day one and that will have meaningful governance rights and commercial rights and so when you start thinking about what that can look like uh it it's basically a membership token into the team where you have a real voice and what that team does how it forms what it's uh

382. 2:56:54

     what the athletes are doing on board how it um how what it what it focuses on but then it is part of that you can have access to to experiences that traditionally would only be reserved for folks that were sitting in the owner's box and so michael casey was actually pushing on that on stage with russell like what are those areas that you know could happen and i think the the interesting part there is that none of us can really say that right we're not going to be the team owner so i think when you think what could happen the

383. 2:57:19

     possibilities are literally endless and i think there's going to be a driver group that really pushes forward trying to drive fandom and i think what we're doing here is really trying to push primitives people ask us all the time why cell gp why not f1 why not the nba why not something else we just gave you the reason for the commercial structures it's nearly impossible to do it there but we're looking at primitives like this like what are the things that get you most excited about anybody in this

384. 2:57:42

     room being able to do yeah i think that's right that's lgp's edge right we because cell gp is a startup we're able to to look at this across the league right you do this in the nfl you do this somewhere else there you're kind of doing it on the side and getting blocked out right whereas sale gp is is taking a bit of technology risk and saying we're all in where it goes from there right the cell

385. 2:58:04

     gp sets the rules we set the agreement ultimately it's going to be up to the dow to decide those things but what we can start to talk about is what does a hypothetical dow look like right within that framework and i think that the there's a bunch of different ideas going back and forth but it's around meaningful governance tied to that class b token uh and some things might be done with like a kyc where every one token

386. 2:58:27

     one person one vote and there's some elements of the team that will be done that way uh and there's some elements maybe on the commercial side that will be uh token weighted voting there may be a combination between different algorithmic uh methods of voting in there and where that goes is i mean the t the dow will have to pick a country right it's nation first nation racing and sale gp what country is the dow uh racing under and that's going to be one decision that the dow will make clgp

387. 2:58:53

     won't specify that that's up to the dow to decide uh what um what what purpose partner is the team partnering with so sale gp has two different championships leagues we have the racing league on the water we also are racing uh for a better future and so we've actually gamified sustainability and we have a whole purpose league that runs a part of it the dow is gonna get to decide that um and that goes all the way forward into

388. 2:59:16

     how are athletes selected uh how are uh coaches selected what is the dow focusing on in terms of its marketing and its markets and so jordan you've seen dow's inside and out and human like coordination is one of the best things that we say the dows are good for and so you know that there's challenges they're getting people to actually participate in votes and all of that stuff so what do you think the the challenges are but also what do you think the awesome parts that could come

389. 2:59:40

     out of this are as a primitive yeah i think it definitely plays into like the things that we're excited about like we're nerding out on the differences between fungible tokens non-fungible the way the regulations work and all these things but at the end of the day what we're enabling is for fans to be closer to their teams and that's kind of the vision of astro too is just the web to simplicity of like it allows people to connect with each other around a shared

390. 3:00:02

     vision and accomplish those missions so that's that's what i love about this is that as long as everybody's aligned on that goal then it can come together in so many different ways and again we're just cultivating the possibility for that to happen there's all these primitives and mechanics that can come into play for somebody to pick up and run with um but at the end of the day

391. 3:00:24

     the the fans are closer to the teams and that doesn't have to mean that they are there for financial gain but that they are part of the team that they love and that's just an incredible feeling to it's no longer just on the other side of the screen it's something that becomes real and tangible with that sense of ownership well and so gp very data fueled uh league in and of itself tons of data being pumped through the oracle

392. 3:00:48

     cloud and when you're thinking about the amount of things that could be done with that i think becomes pretty fascinating i mean they've got an e-regatta game now that's not web3 based and i'd encourage people to think about go build that maybe we can help the league adopt it and use it but when i think about that like dow ownership like russell was saying before could really lead to very different experiences that doesn't have to be physical on site it could be within gaming it could be within you know fan betting at some point in time you

393. 3:01:12

     never know when you think about this what do you think are the the most exciting pieces and that are the biggest like risks yeah i mean i there's right there's two different membership opportunities there right there's the the in-person experiences both at events or even in training camps right that normally would be only reserved for owners of the team we think the dao opens up the possibility to really make sure that everybody has that

394. 3:01:35

     opportunity but then it gets even you take a step back now you have this authentication method in place to do really meaningful digital experiences and so even the in cell gp the data is actually all shared between the teams so you think about formula one right each team has it collecting a lot of data but they're they're walling that off right that's their ip they don't share that with anybody else they're very very protective of that clgp's attitude's the

395. 3:01:58

     other way it's actually all open but it's about what do you do with that data and so the teams all have different debriefs that's the one piece that's very um protected that a team owner might be able to be involved in is there a way to structure where actually you could protect the team's uh deliberations but actually allow a true die hard fan uh the opportunity to be a fly on the wall in that room as they're figuring out why are we getting

396. 3:02:23

     beat why is that other team uh getting across the line ahead of us why are we down the leaderboard um could you actually put a place a method and rules to allow fans to actually sit and watch that debrief well interesting or digitally and potentially even have a say in it right because we don't know what you can and can't have a say i mean jordan for you if if you were a member of this like ownership group or the the kind of membership group like what were the things that you would want to participate in

397. 3:02:48

     yeah i think that we're talking about these different experiences that the fans can have and i think that there's a huge opportunity for web3 natives the d5dgents who love looking at charts love looking at numbers figuring out what they all mean and visualizing them taking this open data and doing some amazing work that has never been done before using those analytical skills so that's something that i would be like curious about and interested in like helping form and figure out and look at and then is that

398. 3:03:19

     token gated and what that all looks like but it is really cool seeing the kind of like same play of transparency and privacy that we have in blockchain playing out in sale gp and that's one of the things that i think makes this like a very natural like partnership and thing to be pushing forward together is that there's a lot of shared values between the teams that are looking at this yeah well and so thinking about that right you you guys also heard that

399. 3:03:43

     we had announced a fund yesterday uh the cyrus fund focused on media and entertainment and if you think about this lgp really is a median entertainment platform right you're going to races you're participating in these things when you think about what could come out of that i even start to think from an entertainment value perspective like where does this go from here does this get into other leagues does this inspire other leagues does the legal work come out as uh kind of open source materials out of this league that's definitely what we're focused on

400. 3:04:07

     right we're focused on doing this the right way we're not focused on uh trying to figure out how we can get around u.s securities laws we're saying we're leaning into it we are a security how do you operate within the rules of the game today and we think some of the work being done hopefully then it becomes kind of this case study that can be transferred to other leagues other than other corporate structures the the the real thing to think about right so we put the

401. 3:04:30

     framework in place and now what are the next steps right how does this actually happen and so we're actually really fortunate that even here at nircon there's a bunch of founding members of the dao that are starting to come together starting to take this framework have these ideas how does this actually all work and ultimately form the dow together ultimately it's going to take that founding group to join hands and say we're doing this together and and launch the dow and that's kind of like a

402. 3:04:53

     first wave and then that becomes the the kind of effect that that builds from there how do we scale out the next wave of tokens how do we scale out the the reg beat or the class b token to ultimately have a team on the line for next season so so fundraising is hard and again we're saying this is uh what eight nine figure uh investment and probably more on the eighth side i can't get my math together today but thinking about like where this can go

403. 3:05:17

     fundraising's not easy so you're saying you actually already have line of sight into people hand raising and saying we want to do this yeah it's been really encouraging um the the number of people that have expressed interest in taking uh kind of a foundational role in the dow has been fantastic i've been really excited that but also the number of people from the whole community that want to have a a voice and a stake in the dow is almost more encouraging and so both

404. 3:05:41

     sides are are actually critical to the success right this is not something where it's uh 20 people getting together we could do that in a traditional structure we could even do 100 people or we could do even 2 000 people right you could do that in a in a traditional llc uh environment there are some advantages to being in web 3 right there's liquidity advantages that come with um with tokenizing that ownership stake but we think it's this combination between ownership and

405. 3:06:05

     governance and how those two communities work together to come up with new ideas and ultimately push the team forward and we think the whole sport forward and so i've heard like dows of dows before in these kind of scenarios like jordan what do you think about that like one massive dao a couple of different token offerings and that kind of stuff but how do you think this unfolds even

406. 3:06:21

     in the way you get people to participate yeah i think that with the with daos the more focused they are on a singular thing the easier it is for them to be successful towards that thing because you're organizing so many different people the single goal helps a lot and because of that thousand dows and other structures where you allow smaller groups to focus on what they need to focus on so that they can contribute to something bigger makes a lot of sense and

407. 3:06:46

     i think that when we're we're looking at the people who are coming together around this style and around forming this it's really visionary figures who have an appetite for risk because well there are a lot of things that are exciting about web3 and that's why we're all here is because we see those it's also something where we're figuring it out there will be stumbling points along the way and somebody has to go there first and put

408. 3:07:09

     the first foot forward and just seeing that coming together here is incredible so i'd say i think that's notable to push on i mean this is a world's first like there's been sports uh teams that are owned by fans or have some type of say but doing this tech first tech forward i am pushing the dow narrative and dao structures for it is pretty important especially going back to the primitives point um but when we're thinking about this i mean

409. 3:07:33

     we're going to go two minutes into a couple questions but is there anything that you guys are thinking about that like you feel like people need to know about this uh that probably hasn't been said yet i'll start with with you jordan no pressure yeah well i i haven't touched on it but with with astro dao it's simple to make it out like technically you're able to do that in less than 30 seconds if you know what you're doing you just click through it and you have your dao

410. 3:07:57

     and a lot of the leg work that happens are these people problems in the end this all boils down to people problems and getting that right is the hard work that's happening right now so that we even know how to configure it when it comes to the technical portion of it so as people think about dallas i always encourage them to take that into consideration that it's really about the people that are involved that's the important part the dao is in service of those people it's

411. 3:08:20

     software helping them run what they want to run and then i think another really interesting aspect of daos is the more permeable they are the easier it is to join them and leave them the more successful they'll be it means that anybody who can have an interest can come in and do what they want to do and get something out of it and people who aren't interested any longer can easily leave and you don't have dead weight sitting around kind of dragging

412. 3:08:44

     everybody or freeloading or whatever that situation looks like so um as people look at taos think about the people and think about entering and exiting maybe even your own exit yeah i think the thing that excites me the most is um the i get so excited about web3 i get so excited about what web3 looks like in the future but i also get so frustrated sometimes about web 3 looks like right

413. 3:09:09

     now and i think that um there's been even we look at like what the broncos tried to do right with can we tokenize a piece of the broncos and go and raise four and a half billion dollars to do it oh no we're going to block you guys out but i think that what what sale gp is committed to do here it is able to do kind of top to bottom um with the league ownership with the team ownership structure committing to saying okay we're not going to put you guys over there and say you're a dow you're

414. 3:09:34

     separate we're going to figure out we're going to work with you to make sure that you are successful we're leading into this sets up this this ultimate primitive or this case study for how do you do this in sale gp but this lays the foundation for how do you do this elsewhere and so i think that's the real exciting opportunity that we're seeing from both sailing fans right that like sailing and want to be a part of an ownership group of sailing both from

415. 3:09:56

     racing fans how do you do that maybe motorsport or other sports just even general sports fans i want to be an owner of a team this is a great way to start doing that or web3 fans how do we actually have a real world use case of web3 that's providing meaningful value right this is not something we're just doing because we we think web3 is cool this is something we think there is real value to changing how fans are governed uh by leaning into web3 and building

416. 3:10:20

     that and first we're going to build it in sale gp but we think that we're building really the foundation to be taken elsewhere and i think one of the cool parts that we're running into question territory really is ran the math back in my head it is an eight-figure like go-to-market need to raise funds and so when we're thinking about how can all of you participate if there's anyone here that's actually interested in trying to get involved definitely stop by the cell gp booth you can also come out to cadiz next weekend

417. 3:10:44

     or two weeks from now actually in spain see the races up close for a vip experience there are tickets being sold at a discounted rate so if you want to check it out you really want to see this hands on get up close to the votes and see what you'd be buying or buying into come on out check it out it's probably not what you think it is when you see this up close it is a tech confused industry so with that i'd love to use the last three minutes and 30 seconds to talk with you guys so are there any

418. 3:11:08

     questions from anybody in the audience everybody knows everything about taos now where's the set oh i see one one in the back in green hello hi thank you so much for that informative panel i'm just really curious if there is an actively voting dow today or is everything still getting formed yeah you said that one more time right the other question was is there a working dow today the answer is no we have just uh amended our participation

419. 3:11:51

     agreement to allow the dow to form right so we started out we wanted to do it now we weren't sure we could do it we have or have just completed the legal work that says we now have a road map we know how this an sec legal dow can form and now that's uh providing information to those founding members of to ultimately get together and form that dow that founding group is meaningfully coming together uh we're always looking for

420. 3:12:13

     more folks to get involved and ultimately then they will stand up the the dow organization uh the smart contract the organization that will be behind that smart contract uh and then the dow community itself and just to reinforce that shape as we're getting the next question going when people say dao they usually are referring to the people the software and the legal entity and that's what is uh forming now hi thanks

421. 3:12:41

     can you speak to what you had to amend in your bylaws yeah for sure um the way that ownership is governed in sports leagues right is generally uh really designed around one person or a small number of people uh doing that and so we had to focus on okay if you go to community ownership and you allow that okay you can say okay we're gonna be open to having a community-owned team but then what are the the other impacts of that and so thinking about a lot of

422. 3:13:12

     it is securities regulation so modifying it to to make sure that a community team will fit within securities law uh and then also making sure that the the dow doesn't become something where one person can come in and buy up all the tokens and it kind of defeats the purpose and so there's actually rules in there that make sure that the team maintains its integrity uh of being a dow and of having multiple owners having a broad ownership base and mass engagement

423. 3:13:40

     hello hi um my understanding is that you created the platform so that you can end up having doubts participating and you created this class b for governance um what i wanted to ask you is like how much thinking has gone into how far you can push governance in the true essence of a dao right like are you going to i mean would it be possible you think is there a structure in place not legally but like

424. 3:14:04

     even computationally where the way the trainers are selected the crew is selected like everything else apart from ownership which i think enough we've seen a lot of instances of it's kind of working really well yeah it's um from the cell gp side there's been a bunch of ideas and work around that ultimately the detail of that will be up to the dow i will say i'm very very encouraged by the initial conversations with those founding members because they've done a lot more

425. 3:14:28

     work around that than we have uh and it's it's a little bit tricky right you if you just said the dow operates the whole team and they get to make every decision it's not functional right but if you also said the dow gets to pick who's in charge and then they make all the decision what's the point of doing a dow and so it's finding the right balance ultimately this is a governance model and i think it's going back to there's an executive branch just like in

426. 3:14:52

     the in the u.s that runs the team day-to-day they report into a congress those are your token holders and then there's an arbitration to make sure that any disputes can be handled and so with that that puts us at time but really this is about creating the best in class first time like mass use case for a dao and really it is about delivering experience and delivering on the future of fandom so thank you guys thank you

427. 3:15:18

     thank you good stuff thank you so much sale gp and all of the dao and sports endow makes it extremely exciting next up is breaking the hype cycle how to think long term we have ashley tyson from hypersphere ventures maria shen from electric capital paul varaditakit from pantera capital and ron neuner from crypto banter welcome welcome welcome everyone welcome nice to see you all nice to see you all here on uh halfway through the second day here at the conference um great

428. 3:16:16

     panel great guest nice to see you all i think before we talk about the hype cycle and breaking the hype cycle i want to talk about neoprotocol and i want to talk about what your expectations were before you got here and whether they've changed now that you're here and you've seen everything and you've seen everything inside i'm going to start off with maria what do you think what were your expectations before you came here

429. 3:16:40

     and has this met your expectations yeah um i mean definitely beyond i think i i this we were originally investors in near in 2018 and i think just seeing how much it's grown one of the things that we look at is the number of open source developers in the space and last year in 2021 we noticed that the near ecosystem you know more than 4xed the number of open source developers in

430. 3:17:05

     their ecosystem and that was you know that was a great kind of numbers thing to look at but i think coming to this conference and actually seeing the number of people who are drawn to the new ecosystem who are building on the near ecosystem is an entirely different feeling yeah i think the last statistic i heard was 1500 developers if i'm not mistaken uh so monthly active right now is a bit

431. 3:17:27

     um over 400 which um puts near at you know like after after ethereum at one of the top layer one chains that's gaining developers but yeah near actually last year was one of the top 10 chains to have gained the most developers and just for context for those watching this electric capital near is one of your investments yes that's right yeah so we invested in near in 2018 electric capital um is an early stage vc firm we only invest in crypto we invest at seed in series a

432. 3:18:00

     um and we were have been around since 2018 so nero is one of our first investors awesome yeah paul what were your expectations before you got here yeah so just on pantera capital we started in 2013 uh similar seed to series b so we're happy to do slightly later stage deals and we've been investing in years since 2019 so i think it was right after you guys invested into that small investors

433. 3:18:25

     small investors but it is one of our largest positions and so for me i mean you know at the beginning of the year i was i was saying this is going to be a monster year for near i was extremely excited i felt like things were starting to align you know recently they got listed on coinbase so i think that's gonna really open up the doors for the u.s market and you know i think now that the crypto prices have come down i really wanted to

434. 3:18:48

     sort of see what the developer sort of you know adoption would be i mean i look at the electrical port all the time to sort of see it but i just wanted to actually like number one meet these people in person and and really just kind of understand the quality of the teams that are building and so you know i think the turnout was larger than i expected i'd say the quality of the team's extremely high and i was also impressed and also

435. 3:19:12

     you know pleasantly surprised in how many sectors nir has been able to get really good quality entrepreneurs i mean you know we saw the announcement by sweatcoin so not not only trying to go after d5 but really going after gaming in a bigger way going after consumer in a bigger way so with all that said i mean you know i come out of this conference really excited awesome and you say near is one of your

436. 3:19:36

     biggest investments yes why got in really early and you know it's just you know been able to build a really strong developer ecosystem you know it really leads in with tech we bring web 2 to web3 and they've just done very well with that thesis amazing ash i guess your business is not as linear as the investment funds over here maybe you want to give us a little bit of background about hypersphere what you guys do yeah and then your expectations versus the reality here got it so i'm ashley i'm a gp at

437. 3:20:10

     hypersphere ventures i started my career in crypto in 2013 but i'm a co-founder of web3 foundation so i actually helped launch the polka dot uh protocol um and then in 2020 i left the foundation and i started working with pair chain projects and actually started talking a lot to ilia and was really curious about what the near team was up to i had worked with them at web3 summit in 2019 and all the ethereum core developers

438. 3:20:41

     were like you know i really like this near protocol thing like they're really smart guys i'm going to angel invest which they did very quietly a lot of people don't know that and i was like all right my spidey like senses are telling me let's talk to elia so i joined the near team and started working with them in 2020 um so i did that um and then launched this fund so hypersphere spun out of the polka dot

439. 3:21:04

     ecosystem and the first fund was a very like polka dot centric uh fund but now this fund is cross-chain focused so near is an lp solana is an lp ava labs is an lp so we've got a lot of cross-chain representation and we invest in early-stage cross-chain infrastructure and go a little higher up the stack but yeah for me and my perspective of veneer like i don't know what i started working with near was ilia and alex and like a few folks in the san francisco office um

440. 3:21:34

     and it was kind of this ragtag group of like visionaries and i just really liked how technical and how focused they were and their values and their vision um because i think a lot of times you find some folks that are in this space for maybe the wrong the wrong reasons and ilia and alex particularly were just you know really attuned to the values and what they wanted to create and i couldn't help but be drawn in by that and it's really

441. 3:22:00

     amazing to see this come to life yeah so i must agree with you when i think my perception of near protocol before i gotcha was there was a bunch of really smart guys building a lot of really smart products and shipping them all very successfully but they lacked a marketing department they lack the hype cycle and i think now that i'm here and i see everything and i see this amazing conference and i see the hype that's being created i think they now have the missing piece of the puzzle

442. 3:22:30

     and i think that's probably a good segue into the next part of our discussion which is how to break the hype cycle and how to think much more long term and i think one of the things that we know is that most technologies have a hype cycle and then we drop down and then reality starts to set in and we start to build and grow when in the nasdaq in the 1990s and 2000 we had the hype cycle around the internet that collapsed and that

443. 3:22:54

     carried on growing linearly in crypto we've had multiple hype cycles we had 2015 we're at 2017 and then we've just had another one and it's kind of uncharacteristic that we just keep getting these hype cycles in crypto why do you think that crypto is so hype driven so much more than everything else in the world i'll start with you maria excellent question um i do think yes while crypto is extremely cyclical in that

444. 3:23:24

     sense the floor gets higher with each cycle right i think the and and i don't just mean price floors get higher i i really mean the activity gets a lot higher i remember the 2018 um bear market which was uh my first you know 2018 2019 bear market which was my first bear market there really weren't many things being built right a lot of teams had raised money from icos in 2017 but you know we didn't have a lot of applications we certainly didn't have a

445. 3:23:55

     lot of users and this this market feels markedly different right there's 300 million dollars in defy locked in near there's billions of dollars that's that's still retained in the system there are nft users there are transactions that are happening where where people are doing real things whether it's playing games whether it's um voting for dow governance um and so the activity level i think this time around i mean it's unprecedented right it just it really i don't think we've seen this

446. 3:24:29

     before um it's not it's it's it's it's no longer faith-based right it's not like hopes and wishes it's really there's a lot of stuff happening on the ground do you think we're at that inflection point for adoption because i think you could argue that there aren't many crypto apps today that really have real world adoption yeah i mean bitcoin a lot of people hold it but not a lot of people use it

447. 3:24:51

     ethereum not real no real mass adoption do you think we're at that that turning point where in the next six to 12 months we may get a mass adopted crypto application um i don't believe in the next six to 12