NEARCON 2023 Live Stream | Day 3 -Layer One Stage

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

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   we will begin in 5 minutes please find your seats

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   come

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   yeah Co

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   we will begin momentarily please take your seats and silence your cell phones keep please welcome back near foundation's Martin

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   best good morning ladies and gentlemen final day feels emotional doesn't it we've hopefully all made many friends many connections been inspired by a huge number of brilliant ideas that we take home with us of course after the big party tonight uh before we start just one or two exciting announcements not quite IL a standard exciting announcements but for any of you with a wallet with some Encon still in there there are some crazy sales going on over at the swag store insane prices

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   Everything Must Go um we're talking five big boys per item now so uh please do not go now I can see one of two of you are itching to run away stay in your seats there will be time uh but in the break please run over use those last bits of En con uh there will also be slices of pizza left over for you later but get your t-shirts get your hats and of course get your caps so thank you very much for that um we're going to

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   kick on now and uh start with our first Speaker uh web 3 blockchain often spoken about as being immutable but today we're going to be listening to Dimitri palun talking about the open and mutable web okay um hello anyone um my name is MRI palun I the founder of Dess project and mutable web um oh does it work okay uh so who are dlet project uh at the first time it's a technology it's a platform that makes two things it pass websites on the Fly

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   and introduce a semantic layer it's live semantic layer uh that exposes insertion points and uh it becomes possible to attach applications of widgets to this um uh insertion points and um they attached to this model and these applications are executed in um users browser in their decentralized and permissionless way what is a mutable web mutable web is a new web 3 architecture it's a joint technology between boss made by boss and duplets and it tget the entire web and

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   targetting millions of existing websites also um the most important it's becomes the websites becomes mutable on users demand not on the owner MC not under his approval and in the end it makes communities self- sustainable and resilient and it starts Unstoppable transformation from web 2 to web 3 and I will show why and how it goes in order to understand how it works uh just uh let's see an example example assum we would like to insert a dislike button into NE

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    social uh I am the author of this change and um um someone else a NE social is a author is a owner of the website how it works how can I change the someone's website oops woke yeah it walks uh in two ways I can make a fork uh or I can make a pull request but most probably my pull request gets rejected if we are small community using this dislike button and new social can have thousands or maybe Millions we hope

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    of users and if our request doesn't make the owner of the web page uh reach or anyone happy our pull request will be rejected so we can only Fork uh but in order to Fork we need to Fork not only the button we need to Fork the container then we need to for the container of the container but then we need to for the container of the container of the container of the container and at the end we ending up up to forking the wall

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    webite and it becomes an independent Fork so we have few problems with this approach first this simple change requires a lot of work excessive Works unnecessary work or a lot of pool requests to convince a lot of owners for every component if every component every container owned by another party it doesn't work for future usages it doesn't work for calculated dependencies and it doesn't work for other gateways it doesn't apply for other greator so it's huge work if I

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    would like to roll out this small change or integ get it integrated into another gateways and this Fork Gateway has no usage this is a last big problem it it has to be promoted in original Community but the original communities owned by the owner of the website it means any promotion uh from Fork near at Social near or the mop near is Accused under approval at atmc of its own it's not permissionless so it's not decentralized how we can solve this

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    problem so we have patched the boss VM and now boss VM is capable to apply changes on the Fly and these changes are introduced by the owner himself this is a permissionless it's get applied runtime and it these changes are visible to Comm Unity who submitted to this mutation we call it mutation and uh the switch between mutation is always visible it creates a competition between mutations and it's all visible on the original website so let us see how it

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    will work how it could be implemented um you see the original NE social website with some additional element book one it's a mutation switcher currently it's original it means there's no mutation applied uh we go to Applications we look we are looking for this dislike button application starting is as usual but instead of opening a new website it gets applied and integrated on the Fly and

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    this um dislike buttons get integrated on the Fly and it means we have created a mutation it's local for now but it's already here um what we can do with it we can switch between mutations so if we go to another mutations uh maintained for example from devhub thislike mutation disappears because it's not in this not the part of this mutation we can switch back and it will appear as well uh we can

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    choose uh and the editor and we can and change this mutation and add more applications to it then we can publish this mutation and this mutation becomes available we can share a link to this mutation and anyone who will click on the link will open the mutated version of the original website and we can propose this mutation as a pull request uh to the author of the original website or the original mutation and this set of

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    application uh uh if accepted uh will be integrated in the in their mutation and we can also set this application as default it means if I am part of this of some community at default version of my uh default version will be set to um um uh to the mutated version of the ne social it's very important as well so we can use the same uh narrative to and expand it to the web 2 Dess

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    provide uh insertion point where these applications can be integrated into web2 uh Legacy websites so this is example how we did it it's already implemented in the hakon so this is uh these badges are B components integrated uh into Twitter seemlessly and the switch a mutation switch is provided as well important to understand this mutable web is the main narrative change and Paradigm change for the entire web it changes the way how the web can be used it can be owned controlled and how

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    we can make business in the web um for example um the websites become changeable on us demand not the under owners approval uh users become uh Community owned version of the website by default it's very important uh because if anyone thinks uh that he should go to some new social uh in order to communicate to each other the community becomes owned because the website is owned but if anyone thinks he

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    should go to some another resour owned by the community uh the ownership or the power of the owner ends because Community owns this resource and Community becomes independent and self sustainable Community can deliver own own res Services into other websites other to we websites sorry created and owned by other parties and owners can adapt unit of functionality or applications are already released and tested by Community it means currently

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    owners uh become a lot of feature requests and should implement it them or pool requests and should believe that they it will work well but in mut mutable web owners should only accept already tested uh applications with real usage it's very easy uh control on governance it will change as well uh communities can resist undecided changes and can Implement own features it means uh that they control their front end it implies that Community can choose

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    which backend to use because if you control front end you can uh set where which back end is to be used and finally Community gain control over the UI it uses and there no matter who created this UI and who owns it currently and as said Community can deliver owners uh own Services into websites owned by others the community becomes spreaded over multiple websites in the mutable web we have a huge impact on economic because communities become resilient

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    economic actors nobody can extract too much value anymore from the communities because communities can Fork out can Community can resist owners become major Community token holder because if owners cannot extract much Community uh much value from the community if he can't beat them they will try to lead them so we'll join the community as a major token holder to keep the influence and in order to uh keep this evaluation of this token

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    high they will tokenize existing uh Fiat uh Based Services or Legacy Services Legacy businesses uh into tokenized models and this will create an investing opportunity and attract Capital because it move huge uh I would say Legacy uh controlled businesses to crypto world so what is the impact on near community and ecosystem as a boss becomes enabled on million of website of Legacy websites and um mutable web will attract

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    crypto investors because it moves Legacy economics into crypto and I believe I truly believe that mutable idea is powerful enough to serve as a main narrative for near as a open web it's a truly open web narrative and I believe mutable web has potential to generate considerable usage for near so let's summarize everything the all major actors users communities owners investors all of them have incentives to join mutable web to make

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    it happen and no one can prevent others from joining because the users's browser is always under user control currently user let the owner of the website control his browser but it's not necessary user can control uh the browser it's always possible uh no one can prevent others I told sorry uh and conclusion the transition from web 2 to mutable web uh will become Unstoppable because anyone could join no one can stop and

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    there's incentives oh that is sorry so thank you thank you so much de Tre so as we touched on yesterday uh NE protocol is nothing without the the developers the builders the innovators and hopefully every one of you by now will have spent some time in the section at the back talking to some of those exciting projects and people that make this ecosystem so special so I think our next guest is someone that uh is a

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    really big character and a really important project within that ecosystem um we had some guests that were flying in from Korea from around the world this guest has come all the way from just down the road because he lives here uh but his project is very much an international one and a huge part of the near protocol so I'd love to welcome onto the stage Mr Alex shevchenka from Aurora hello everybody Pioneers Pioneers are the the people who

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    have always putting themselves at the risk of ridicule they challenge the current narratives and they're transforming the way how people are thinking about the things that exist it is because of the Pioneers our species advances and it is because of their belief they able to lead the humanity forward 14 years ago a Pioneer developed the concept of a currency that is not issued by the state or any other

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    centralized Authority four years later his collect decided that it can be elevated with the idea of the programmable uh logic that can be introduced on top of this currency leading the way for Defi and nfts to exist and then four years after this another Pioneer elevated the technology to the level that it is able to power the open web at Aurora we've always have been on the Forefront for the near ecosystem Innovation and back in March 2021 we've

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    launched the first trustless and permissionless bridge in the world that by now has never been hacked and is an icon of the stability and security later the same spring we've launched Aurora engine the first time in the world when a fully pledged virtual machine is deployed on the blockchain this is a marvelous piece of technology that fascinates people up until now later we switched our uh Vision into making sure that user experience is good

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    we've introduced the first discovery layer for the applications and easy on boarding with Aurora plus that was later developed into to the Aurora pass our uh our self custody wallet that is working with Aurora this year we have launched Aurora Cloud a solution that that powers the interoperable L2 stack with shared decentralized sequencer none other solution in the world has this many people are discussing how to implement this however this piece is already working on top of

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    the near protocol and also in Spring this year we've introduced some intriguing token economy updates and some of them are yet to be developed however they are aligning the tokens inside in general not only Aurora token but uh but in general any token inside of the near ecosystem with the near token itself but it's not all about the history the question is what are we doing now

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    at Aurora we believe that the current Innovation that near need to uh undertake is the onboarding of many many businesses on top of the near blockchain just because there are not a lot of web3 businesses or native web3 businesses and out there there are tons of web to traditional businesses and in case you're able to teach them the value of the blockchain speak the language that they understand listen to their problems provide the

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    solutions and share with them the success the whole web 3 vertical is able to advance and get to this mythical place of the mass adoption and I'm happy to announce um sorry it's not not this light but there are two specific verticals where the blockchain actually makes quite a lot of sense for the ordinary businesses and the first of them is the fintech vertical where tokenization of standard assets is able

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    to bring quite a lot of benefits for the capital efficiency it introduces the affordability through fractionalization of Assets in case the investor was not able to buy the full asset now he's able to buy a fraction of an asset through the token that is represented on the blockchain it unlocks liquidity and introduces the liquid markets it allows for the assets to to get better price Discovery because they are becoming liquid it makes a uh it makes the

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    compliance procedures pretty straightforward because all of the transactions are structured and recorded on the public Ledger and then anyone is able to analyze the behavior because of this because of this actually um the the myth that the blockchain is the place for frosters and drug dealers is no longer the case blockchain is the worst possible place for these people to operate and another vertical that is super important and that can uh innovate through the blockchain technology is the

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    user engagement anything from the loyalty programs to gaming uh is capable of reusing the ideas of the blockchain because it brings to the end users ownership and control of their assets and because of this they are becoming much more excited they love to collect things and because of this the feeling of of the ownership is a great thing to engage users more and another thing is obviously the distribution of the incentives and

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    rewards and we have seen this particular application or this particular vertical working extremely great with kichin and sweat on near I'm happy to announce today the launch of the Aurora Cloud console this is a management hub for the businesses to Monitor and manage their own blockchain infrastructure this is an all-in-one solution that allows the business to have their blockchain infrastructure on their fingertips with Aurora Cloud console

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    businesses are able to log in and launch and monitor their customizable change uh chains that are powered by the public or private Aurora silos these chains are deployed as a copies of aurora on the near blockchain or on calimero private charts the tool introduces the flexibility for the gas fees businesses are able to create the fee models for the users that depend not only on the actual transactions and they go Way

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    Beyond the simple ethereum uh um auction model that we all used to within the transaction fees businesses are able to implement percentages of the value of the transfer uh and they are also able to fully remove the fees for some categories of users Aurora Cloud console gives a simple and straightforward way for businesses to use the interchain interoperability in between different

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    Aurora silos and also near native Network and another thing that I'm super excited about and I'm happy to announce that we are launching a Marketplace for add-ons to the Aurora Cloud itself we already have the add-ons that are developed by our us uh in this Marketplace the solutions that are insuring kyc and KYB uh procedures for the users who are connected to these chains uh we have on Rams that are integrated we are working on another

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    exciting solution that is called Aurora Shield this is a solution that allows to analyze the transactions on the fly from the users detect anomalies and block the execution of these transactions this is super important solution for businesses because many businesses out there are afraid of their users making a mistake in an address or being hacked with a simple $5 wrench attack Aurora Shield is going to detect

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    the situation when a user is trying to transfer all of his assets suddenly to an unknown place or to a place that looks suspicious and on the level of the RPC Aurora Shield blocks these transactions also in the Aurora Cloud console you're able to see the full real time analytics on how users are interacting with the blockchain with the smart contracts um and with your other parts of the blockchain infrastructure Aurora Cloud console is available on Aurora cloud. Dev you're

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    able to go there check the demos and in case you're willing to learn a little bit more about it you're able to come by the Aurora booth and uh my team is going to show you all of the different uh features on the Aurora cloud conso and uh orac Cloud console itself kind of closes the closes the loop of the Innovation on the infrastructure and for Aurora part um mostly everything is done now we need to handhold businesses but that's not the

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    case for the near ecosystem our older brother so we are willing to innovate with near together to bring even better infrastr structure in the near protocol and there are three specific projects that we are working on right now and I'm happy to announce them today first is that we're switching near to ZX addresses we allowing thank you we are allowing native web3 wallets to connect to the near blockchain and execute trans transactions as if the people are working on the ordinary evm

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    blockchains the look and feel of near from the standpoint of the user is going to be for the first and the most important interface that they face and their wallet is going to be absolutely the same as on other evm compatible chains this works without sacrifice of any us visibility and developer experience for the developers of the near protocol there is literally nothing that the developers of near protocol would need to change in their

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    smart contracts or on their front end in order to allow the users of met of metamask and coinbase wallet to connect to their applications this solution is scheduled to be launched in the q1 2024 so it is not very very far from the delivery another thing that I'm excited about is the is Mak it's the project that is making the near RPC more interactive and by saying more interactive I mean reducing the latency of the transaction execution on the near

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    protocol I'm super excited about this project because it brings all of the Aurora technology that was developed uh inhouse for Aura chains closer to the near protocol and it empowers new use cases to be implemented on top of near current latency of the transactions on near is end to end latency is approximately 5 seconds and uh this is far from optimal however with this project we

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    would be able to bring it sub3 seconds that will allow use cases like payments to happen directly with the existing infrastructure of for example points of sale terminals that have a strict requirement for the transactions to be finalized within Less Than 3 seconds and the third project the most exciting is something that is going to be announced by Ilia a little bit later so please do not um please come and also listen to this announcement and uh we

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    are also part participating in this project I would like to end up with this guy Peter duer he is one of the most important person most important people who develop the current ideas how to manage organizations he was hating governments he was saying that the centralized authorities controlling things in corporation a is something that is bad he was strong believer in decentralization and simplification of the business processor

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    processes he designed the concept of Outsourcing and this guy was telling everybody innovate or die and I'm happy to report to everybody that Aurora and near feel very good very healthy and leading the way to the whole blockchain industry thank you very much

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    okay ladies and gentlemen thank you very much to Mr chevchenko from Aurora for that fantastic talk uh one of the things that for those of you that were sitting through that engaging talk he mentioned was that the world of of crypto and and the blockchain is less and less um about these nefarious character and the level of transparency prevents those kind of guys uh having any influence in in the blockchain anymore so that's great to

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    hear and I think it's a subject that our next speakers will talk about the moderator of our next session absolutely terrified me uh Joyce Yang not because she's in any way aggressive she's very friendly and and gentle but uh she only arrived about two or three minutes ago and uh and I was scared that I would have to try to moderate this panel with only 10% of the intelligence that she has so um let's now talk about def about

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    how it's growing up we've got a really interesting panel here and it's going to be moderated by none other than Miss Joyce Yang hi everyone can you hear me okay it's wonderful to be here good morning well got almost noon time um I'm here today with some SAR panelists so I love to introduce them but I think first why don't you each have yourself introduce yourself cuz I think that's you probably do a better

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    job than me but here I have Arin from orderly Network correct Mike from Doral Labs Marco from ref Finance as well as Sid from Electric Capital so why don't we start with Sid um you're the closest to me here and why don't you give an introduction of yourself and uh your fund cool thanks Joyce appreciate it um hey guys I'm Sid I work at Electric Capital I've been there for about a year and a half uh spent a lot of time thinking about defi liquidity

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    provisioning um tokenomics governance and excited to talk about defi with all you guys awesome marco yeah hello uh I'm Marco the CTO of D Finance you may know C uh J Finance is a top one defi platform on but you may not know uh we have a professional and efficient team behind it yeah beside front end back end we have dedicated and excellent uiux designers we have QA we have testing we

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    have uh data analysis we have product uh designer and researchers so with the support of powerful team we are keeping evolving graph yeah thank you Mike Mike kill the CEO of dor Labs Doral Labs is building the pith Network pith network is the largest first-party Oracle Network and just announced deployment on near yesterday um so excited to be here hi everyone Arjun coo at orderly network uh orderly Network aims to be the

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    ultimate defi trading Lego we are an infrastructure and liquidity network with an AUD book uh aiming to allow uh multiple daps to be able to tap in and integrate with us and create a wide range of different Financial products thank you all for the introduction I think what let's start off early uh kind of simple questions and then maybe we'll get to some of the announcements that's been discussed in the last couple of days uh that's super

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    exciting um why don't we start off with you uh for Electric Capital how are you guys thinking about the current landscape for Defi and you know within near I think we'd love to learn more about that yeah absolutely so I mean we've been really early adopters of Def I know beyond just investing in protocols we spent a lot of time providing liquidity whether whether it be on amms or lending protocols um on

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    the near side you going spent a lot of time looking at ref burrow um you know orderly as well and I think the technology that near provides allows you know a higher Fidelity of services on the decentralized finance side um and I think we're excited to see what other features can be enabled I think you know with D5 1.0 we saw the basics of amm the basics of lending but what does the next stage look like is it going to be rwas

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    or institution is going to be participating um those are kind of the things that we're looking at yeah awesome I'd love to D dive more into that later yeah and for Marco Mike and arjin uh for you guys as Founders what are you guys most excited about in defi right now Marco why don't you go first uh yeah uh actually at first I stepped into this defy field because I believed that defi could actually help startup

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    teams uh as well as regular users the most exciting thing is uh all of course it's still true it's still true the but furthermore uh I realized that defi is driving um many innov Innovations now you know for example uh who benefits most from Cross Cham Bridge yes several years ago we only need to move a set uh among chance and it seems you know all good at that moment but you know now as the by product become uh more and more

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    complex we now pursue more for you know message passing Bridges we not even uh we not only need our assess to flow among CH but those business logic details to be delivered among products yeah so I think Define is actually you know uh pushing those new technologies forward in uh you know this uh critical area that's the most exciting part I in my opinion gotcha Mike I'm I'm probably the most excited about um the stuff that

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    arin's building um easy to pass it down um but I think that we're at a critical point now where we should start to see kind of overnight success of onchain Perpetual markets starting to eat market share away from centralized Perpetual markets um the infrastructure is probably up to Snuff now um when you start looking at the kind of feature parody of like roundtrip times the amount of Leverage you can get listing times onchain derivatives are

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    pretty much there um pith is powering a lot of them um and so we've seen this kind of firsthand um but the only element of it that I think is still missing that we haven't yet used to kind of grow um and like to frame that we're at about sub 2% market share relative to binance perss on chain um my prediction is that in a year we'll be over 10% um and I think it's all just ux I think now you can you can get away

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    with having all these features and then just improve the ux and I think that ruthless Improvement um on that front which is sufficiently easier from a technological perspective still hard work um is is going to happen and making it fully abstracted the defi experience um is what I'd hope to expect when we start to see people um enter in an environment that looks and feels a little bit like binance perss um and I think that's where we're going to get the the biggest leg and it's going to be it's going to come to surprise for as a

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    surprise to everyone um and I I love that about Innovations where there's a whole lot of work that goes into the infrastructure and everyone kind of complains that nothing's happening for a really long time and then when there's that overnight success everyone had forgotten about all that work that had gone in and I think that we're really ready for that thank you Arin yeah I think M kind of teed me up for what for what I'm most excited about

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    um and that's Perpetual Futures on an A A on on on an on train aut book um we're working really closely with Partners like pith we're working really closely with Partners like ref um ref has both a spot and Perpetual Futures order book built on top of orderly and what I'm excited about is teams coming to together to really bring a true onboarding experience to the user um whether it's us orderly focusing on centralized exchange style infrastructure and experience

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    centralized exchange style liquidity um Oracle latency at pith UI and ux like ref Finance all coming together to really bring that true user experience uh to the user mic reference like chain abstraction wallet abstraction um we have fast orth on near now we have BOS there's such a large multitude that can you know it's a build it and they will come Stone mentality and I'm really excited about the future of D5 because we really are going to on board a large piece and I think we're

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    such at the tip of the iceberg like you said what we're 2% of per volumes on chain per volume on binance um I'm excited over the next 12 18 24 months when we that can be 10 15 20 yeah that was my follow-up question primarily on the timeline here I think we've seen so much prog ress in the last couple of years in Defi and now what you guys all have addressed is pushing defi into the next tier of trying to take over market share from centralized exchanges right build BR bridging and

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    build and bringing derivatives on chain and perpetuals on chain um how should we think about mainstream adoption taking it Beyond you know just within crypto what are you guys thinking about there if anything at all or is it right now just primarily focused on really taking on the competition uh maybe arjent you could take that first so I think with like we are really at the very very start of what I believe

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    defi is and a lot of us are always focused on bare markets bull markets different Cycles over the next 12 18 months we're at the very very start of multi- deade long Financial change in my opinion um so when we're talking about what are we doing to to bring users a large part of that especially in emerging Technologies is letting time take its time yeah right um techn is advancing more Builders coming in uh more people learning more people failing most importantly to build the right type of products and protocols for users and

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    I think over time that's going to evolve and change and I think that's all that we really need is continued focus in what we're doing continued focus in building continued focus in learning and adopting and adapting to what the customers need customers needs and that will happen over time yeah Mike any thoughts there yeah very similar um you know I think that mainstream adoption will most likely come in the crypto markets in something like trading because that is the primary kind of use

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    case today that we see and it's offchain and so it's kind of like if users can't eat their own dog food um on defi natively then you know there's no real hope for the rest of it um there's obviously a whole burgeoning nft Market that could potentially do things differently um because I come from a finance background I tend to focus a little bit more on the dii um so so I agree I think that um those are the Lego bricks that are most likely set up to migrate and there's a lot there right

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    the the number of people that have crypto exposure is in like the hundreds of millions but the number of people that have an active crypto wallet is in the at best single- digit Millions um and um you know bridging that Gap I think is going to give us a whole lot of um uh kind of tell ones y yep for sure Marco any thoughts yeah actually I think it's a a little tricky question it depends on how we Define mainstream adoption if we mean that most of user to

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    use our defi product then I think maybe the most problem is uh user on boarding apparently but if we mean uh to have most of capital in our Define then I vote for regulation yeah yeah yes regulation not security because security is like we tell our user our big clients that our product is safe right you will own will master your own money but maybe a couple days later a couple months

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    later there is an incident you make yourself like a idiot you know it's awkward so regulation is totally another story you tell your client that even if there is an incident happens you have the ability to reclaim uh at least part of your assets back so this risk is the those big investors they can you know predict they can evaluate and they are familiar with so that's the regulation but actually regulation is not my

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    territory so I will assume that we are talking about you know most of user to use it so um definitely use bonding use unbonding isues yeah yeah Sid is just nodding his head nonstop a lot of thoughts I agree with I think there are kind of three points like the first is user experience as Mike mentioned there are a ton of people that hold crypto very few people who are willing to use it in defi you know multiple my friends own Bitcoin ethereum various other crypto assets but

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    convincing them to you know get metamask you know type in a new RPC connect to a new chain goes like Way Beyond their heads even for people who are bought into the idea of crypto currencies in blockchain so really making uh a huge difference in terms of the user experience like laying it like making it very very simple for them so that they can understand what's going on very aware of the risks and like why we believe in crypto and why it's better

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    that these um kind of products and experiences are much better relative to our traditional Finance counterparts um the second part is you know also actually security um I think there probably are there probably needs to be better standards around you know who is doing audits you know what are the expectations around Audits and you know sometimes there's the technical security but given that we are building Financial applications from the ground up there

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    are a lot of things that need to be considered in terms of financial exploits um that a lot of people in trafi consider but maybe not as much within the defi World um so expanding the quality of audits what's expected you know when def5 first came to the scene it was probably understandable that people were just launching protocols without much thought for it but four years later um it's time that we step back and actually look and

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    understand what's at stake here and then point three totally um agreeing with um Marco here is regulation right I think until there is regulatory Clarity in terms of what is allowed what isn't allowed it's going to really be an inhibitor to uh development and innovation in the space and I think once regulatory Clarity is here both security and user experience are likely going to take a jump from there you touched on some really great topics of Regulation and security to

85. 56:31

    name the two I think to just start off with a regulation I'd love to just pick your each of your brains a bit more because you're also building on a very global scale right so sit um I assume you're in the US if correct me if I'm wrong but I love to get your take on where you're seeing in terms of regulations in the US and to give the context for folks who are here um and Marco and Mike and Argent love to hear about where you you guys are based and how kind of you know geographically the regulations there are affecting how

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    you're building right yeah yeah so I mean not to get too much into politics and whatnot but if you look at like the current is all about politics yeah you can't really step away from that or hide from it but if you look at like currently who's in charge with Gary gendler it seems like they have a very clear agenda that regardless of what the benefits to crypto are they're going to be pointing a pretty bad picture of what actually is happen happening um you know they're going after smaller projects

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    while they've let like SPF and FTX completely grow and blow up in kind of front of their face um so it's pretty clear that they don't have like the the economy and Innovation um like as an importance for them um but regardless there are a lot of individuals within Congress within the white house within other regulatory bodies like the cftc that are putting in a significant amount

88. 57:50

    of time to understand these things you know they may be hesitant at first but that's not not stopping them from trying to understand more and pushing back against Gary Gensler and the White House's agenda um and working to kind of establish clear ground rules so that people who are looking to participate in the space um don't have to like leave the us and that Innovation is happening within the us and that we're supporting the people that are helping build the

89. 58:13

    next generation of financial infrastructure yeah Marco yeah uh I'm from Shanghai China and uh as I said ter regulation is not my territory so I'm not also not the political man yeah so but I can share some uh thoughts about this uh regulation SC that I think the first step towards that direction would be unchain identity unchain identity yeah like idos on near they do like SBT you know this uh NEP standards

90. 58:46

    yeah to identify people the real people behind the the uh unction activity would be the first thing to do yeah gotcha like so Doro Labs is based in Portugal in the Doro Valley in Porto um and I'm an American um um it wasn't that we moved I wasn't that we moved um to Portugal because it wasn't a great environment I was already living here um but I do think that there are certain headwinds in operating within a project contributing to a network and being based in the US

91. 59:26

    um I agree with everything that Sid said um there's there's hope um there's there's a there's a lot of cobwebs you have to get through first so when you're when you're building you're a Founder um you have to evaluate those all very seriously um running a foul of any regulatory regime is going to be very difficult um the US tends to view the world as its um as its jurisdiction and

92. 59:53

    so I think making sure that the things that you do are going to be taken within consideration of what they may be worried about um that's how we approach things um and then just making sure that you know the the network that we're contributing to you know is decentralized is getting more decentralized our primary contributions are towards the pth network which is a um a Swiss based organization similar to to neara the foundation um so there are

93. 1:00:24

    certain things are kind of like the tried true tested Pathways for Success um you can see projects that take the more high-risk approaches um and oftentimes those things don't work out well for them um so as long as you're kind of staying within the crowd um I think that's the best that you can do given the lack of clarity from a regulatory standpoint today I um I Echo a lot of what you say there um doing the best that you can do

94. 1:00:51

    in a very uncertain or M world is one of the most important pieces overall orderly we are 40 to 45 plus people across 10 plus countries so battling different GEOS uh different regulatory um um licenses and regulation is very tricky for us the overall goal and vision for us at a is to democratize finance right um we want a completely permissionless protocol we want a dow with a full governance structure y that is the end goal for us and we understand at the beginning or where we are right now that isn't quite quite how to do it

95. 1:01:28

    we have to operate as a as an entity if you will um but the overall goal is to get towards that so being in uh ensuring that we can work with our different partners such as ref such as pith or whoever the different Brokers that tap into orderly and provide them with as much detail and information on regulation is important to us um which countries they should offer certain protocols to uh which countries that they shouldn't is very very key and we want to be able to provide that information um but overall for us being

96. 1:01:58

    a very complete permissionless protocol in the future and democratizing finance is the end goal this is super helpful and I think it's just really helpful to learn about what your each of you are based and like how are you guys are thinking because everyone has such different opinions but overall it sounds like unfortunately us is what we're looking at a lot of and of course Asia is just own animal right and and you have a huge Market there to tackle um Argent I'd love to start with

97. 1:02:22

    you kind of talk about where are you most excited about when it comes to maybe top one or two uh kind of missing holes that projects are looking to fill in the space right now to really help accelerate right especially in defi especially in the near ecosystem where are you looking for when it comes to missing tools and projects that are looking to build and fill those gaps right yeah it's a good question I actually wouldn't say there's anything directly missing but there are key points that I think that are getting worked on and need to be worked on a lot

98. 1:02:54

    more more to bring defi to let's say mainstream adoption if you will um I think onboarding is one of the most important if not the most important piece uh the user experience has to be so seamless um chain abstraction it has to feel like we I think we very continually talk especially in defi about this web 2 versus web 3 Battle right and I just don't think it's a battle at all I think there's a a convergence of both of them it doesn't have to be web 2 versus web 3 it can be

99. 1:03:24

    web 3 that feels like web 2 right um I think the onboarding experience has to feel like you can sign in with an email uh like I mentioned earlier fast or that n has is a is a great tool um different wallets that are now looking at account abstraction is like the next step towards that and again even like near BOS is a is a great place in terms of an operating system that that looks and feels like an app store and that will

100. 1:03:48

     drive defi adoption without the the feeling of what chain you're on uh are you are you which Bridge you're using are you using wrapped assets all of those pieces so I don't think it directly answers your question in terms of what's missing but these pieces in terms of the overall onboarding complex of what needs to be continued to work on I think are critical yeah Mike yeah I I mean I I I

101. 1:04:10

     fully agree with everything Arin said um in the in the fact that those are the things that are the most exciting and they're going to have the highest impact in the short term um and so there there's really no getting around um that being the primary focus of what we should work on kind of in in the short term in terms of things that are like missing just generally from like the

102. 1:04:31

     suite of defi um one thing that hasn't yet been cracked has been um identity um in particular the ability for identity to allow for um non-fully collateralized loans I think that's like something that even when we have defi as like full trading and full lending um but it's fully collateralized we're still going to be missing a big component of it so until we can get to that you know

103. 1:04:57

     partially collateralized um set of of defi Primitives um we're going to still be a little bit be um be behind and the way that you do that is through identity when you have some recourse on like social security number or something like that and you can have some form of credit because right now you can just throw away your wallet and create a new one it's impossible to sort track you um so that's something that I think will get done I don't think it's around the corner though I don't think it's going to be happening in necessarily the next

104. 1:05:22

     six months um but it is something that I'd like to see a lot of people working on and you know there are approaches obviously World coin's got their their approach I was just thinking about them yeah yeah um and but then there's you know a variety of others um who who are doing this through kind of more traditional means using kind of government issued IDs and and kind of creating um a a um a tethered um identity to that so I I think that's a

105. 1:05:45

     very exciting area um for all blockchains uh to kind of to work on for sure Marco yeah I wouldn't say uh me in part but I would say uh there's actually some weakness in weakness part in the defy yeah I agree with Arun uh us on moding yeah definitely a weak weakness for defy and uh you know uh but for this field us on boarding on near actually we have some tools to mitigate this issue

106. 1:06:17

     like AR mentioned first us right so uh uh basically we have two ways to do that one is to have our users try our products first yeah and then uh handle those wallet isos later if they are willing to stay right so another way is to uh have our users to access our product with the tools they are familiar with yeah that means for um you know for for evm users right they can access our

107. 1:06:51

     products using metamask mhm that would be good right yeah uh they took all my answers but uh kind of jumping on what like Mike said I definitely think you know when it comes to Capital efficiency that's going to be a huge unlock for Defi and one piece of the puzzle definitely is identity and being able to have recourse uh Beyond an anonymous address onchain um and I think another part of it is the type of assets right now all the assets that are integrated in defi are very volatile and liquid so by nature sure you have to

108. 1:07:24

     have over collateralization uh very like strong kind of risk standards across all these applications uh but when you bring in traditional assets whether it be equities treasuries um or anything that exists in the traditional Finance World um they're likely to be more stable and also significantly more liquid so figuring out a way to bring those assets on chain in a regulatory compliant way making sure the infrastructure and

109. 1:07:49

     plumbing for that exists would also enable us to do under collateralized Lending in a way that doesn't exist in Def today and I think that would be a huge unlock that you know the infrastructure exists whether it be lending and amm or um derivatives protocols but right now they completely operate within the scope of crypto assets which is amazing but if we really want to get it to the next stage um it needs to kind of figure out a way to

110. 1:08:12

     integrate traditional Finance assets within that as well that makes a lot of sense we unfortunately only have one more uh question of time so I love to just ask each of you to get some advice for Founders who are building in the near ecosystem and defi in general right um I think defi you guys have all started out in D for for quite some time now and the D landscape has obviously evolved a lot but what kind of advice maybe top two advice that

111. 1:08:40

     you will give to the founders who building today in the defi ecosystem um you know navigating right just when they're coming from a finance background like Mike or someone who's an engineer maybe sit if you don't mind starting sharing some advice for them yeah absolutely I think one uh as an entrepreneur you probably want to be aware of market conditions but at the same time you don't want to be like too

112. 1:09:02

     drawn into it you know even though we are in a bare market and you know everyone talks about prices being down if you look at the energy of the space and the fact that you know all of us are here there are tons of people that are continuously building to really rally around that energy and continue to try to build um you know don't be afraid of the fact that it's challenging and that you know there are a lot of unknowns in this space that we really but we're really pushing the frontier here with

113. 1:09:25

     defi projects you know everything Beyond crypto as well um so can really take that energy and continue to push um and we'll we'll get there sooner than later yeah for sure Marco yeah uh I would say when you start to building something uh don't pivot away easily unless you think it through that there's some some something uh in your call Design call logic something wrong yeah um try to keep up with the market change yeah um by upgrading your product or

114. 1:10:03

     iterating because in that way you will accumulating uh ecosystem confidence on your product on your team and even on yourself yeah yeah advice for Founders I would say um stubborn optimism um is is probably Paramount um and then um incremental uh growth um having too large of an expectation will cause gaps and that'll you know kind of reflectively hurt your optimism um being able to talk to people

115. 1:10:34

     about your idea um talk to potential projects that could integrate that you can work with um is so valuable and it just creates this network effect and given how you know what stage we're at in kind of crypto growth everyone's working to try and make each other better it's not yet the Zero Sum you know world of web 2 um there's no giant Behemoth gorillas they're all sort of being um kind of nurtured right now and so everyone's very willing to help one another so you know finding a project to

116. 1:11:03

     start with iterating staying open-minded um and um you know just being optimistic yeah I think you you hit the nail on the head with some of those mic like being curious I would say is probably one of the most important pieces y uh sometimes we can be far far far too dialed into what we're doing um that we don't see what's going on around us um collaborating with each other especially quote unquote competitors let's say um we are at the very very early stages like I said of this like

117. 1:11:34

     multi decade long Financial shift the chance that you're right with your idea is slim to none um you need to be talking to as many people as possible as many like-minded people as many differently minded people um understanding how your idea can evolve as the technology evolves and as the market evolves your product will be completely different over two three four five year period and product Market fit is going to take a lot of time as well so being as curious as you can and talking to as many people as possible is

118. 1:12:05

     probably my biggest advice there that's super helpful and lastly how do the audience here connect with you guys what's the best way to learn more about your project or reach out to you if they have questions um Arin maybe could start um check out our website it's orderly.

119. 1:12:22

     Network check out our documentation docs. orderly. Network and our Twitter is Twitter slly Network so lots of updates lots of exciting things um and lots of partnership and collaborations coming up awesome um pi. Network for the uh the website for pith um and then on all the socials yeah uh by the end of this year uh ref will have the margin trading on the spot Market yeah and we have uh a

120. 1:12:51

     merge with Dex and lending protocol to allow our uhp liquidity provider to has their LP tokens take as a collateral to borrow assess out and then maybe next year we will release a stable coin on year okay very exciting Z yeah check us out at electric electric capital.com uh the team is working really hard to get the next developer report out we put together pretty comprehensive report every year um on the state of developers across ecosystems across Geographic um

121. 1:13:23

     area so we're getting ready to launch the next edition of that um and I'll be at the proximity Terrace if anyone wants to chat awesome well thank you everyone for being here and giving us the advice uh let's give it a round of applause for our speakers again thank you thank you everyone all right oh wow it's filling up there must be someone important coming onto the stage and I do not think you're here to listen to me MC so there are certain guests

122. 1:14:12

     that it's worthwhile making a bit of an introduction explaining maybe where they've come from what they're doing what their role in the ecosystem is and there are some that you just don't really need to bother and of course that's the next guest coming on stage each time he's been on stage this week there's been some really interesting announcements and I'm sure that today will be no exception so there will be a guest in uh in conjunction with him so I'd love to Welcome to the stage Mr Ilia

123. 1:14:37

     Palin and his friend and colleague and guest Mr Jordi Bina thank you well thank you everyone who came for the third day of Nan I hope you all energized and did not drink too much yesterday so I want to welcome Jordy here Jordy is a co-founder of polygon he's a true OG of kind of web 3 in ethereum space and uh um it's been kind of on Wednesday we announced partnership with polygon working on ZK vasm together and Jordy is one of the brains behind kind of the push for zero knowledge uh

124. 1:15:21

     at polygon and I wanted to sit down here kind of uh very grateful for Jordy to come and discuss why zero knowledge technology is so important how we got here and what's coming next but first want to give word to Jordy to introduce himself to and also tell us more how you got into your knowledge why it excites you well I am I'm I'm an engineer I'm an engineer since I'm 12 years old that's my my my heart what it is um I start

125. 1:15:53

     working in the crypto space in 2015 so that's a little bit long time long time ago um and uh it was uh very early maybe after one two years understanding the the technology that uh actually I was trying to use this technology in real applications and I realized that this technology doesn't scale I mean it scale if you cites but if you really want to the cental lights it doesn't scale very well so that was my obsession at that point I mean I was at that point was

126. 1:16:25

     time of uh State channels and very complex things that they didn't work and uh uh at the same time I was very excited about the the the the zero knowledge especially for the Privacy stuff so I start to study a lot here I I drink a lot from the zash uh people I think that all the zero knowledge comes from them we have a lot of them a lot of thanks to that to the to these to this that Network by the time and uh I I was building I built a couple of uh I mean I

127. 1:17:00

     was building circum which is a a language for creating zero knowledge uh circuits and snar JS which is a pro that works very good very good in the browser right now is one of the most used tools in the in the space on that and from there we realized that this was very important also for scalability because zero knowledge is not only about privacy it's mainly about scalability actually scalability is the application that

128. 1:17:24

     makes zero knowledge uh grow that much people care less about privacy unfortunately and uh sadly yeah sadly yeah and uh and uh from there I mean we created the first rollup uh the only payments roll up that was called Hermes and uh after we launch Hermes uh well we were to start working in the Holy Grail that was uh this case in this case was a scaling ethereum skill in the evbm uh so the idea was to to prove uh an ethereum transaction in this case

129. 1:18:02

     that executes uh thing this was a little bit of Holy Grail two years ago because I mean even myself I couldn't believe that this could be possible it was hard to believe it will work because of complexity so yeah so at that time we start uh remember we had like we spent a couple of months with bar white hat from the the foundation uh working together trying to okay uh it's impossible but let's try it I mean let's try to see what are the

130. 1:18:28

     points and how we would do each of the pieces and we're like solving all the pieces and at some point says okay looks like more or less all the pieces are there some of them very complex way to do it but it's it's possible so from there we start um working hard it was a work of two years at that point we joined uh forces with polygon we merged polygon here was very important I mean

131. 1:18:52

     we get all the funding and all the we could grow the team and and actually put resources on that and two years later we were launching in mayet the polygon Z kbm and has been a long journey we learn a lot but uh I think this is an important Milestone uh not only for polygon or for ethereum also for for the full uh blockchain ecosystem because actually we see that it's perfectly uh scalable so scaling blockchain is definitively possible and this is the

132. 1:19:26

     and this is the way to go this is the clear way to go so maybe like for those who are not like very familiar with how zero knowledge works as well as you know how it actually transforms you know provable Computing and appli to blockchain maybe you can describe kind of like in basic model how that works yeah Zer knowled is mainly is what we call the best way to understand because there is a privacy part but the best way to understand is what we call the

133. 1:19:50

     provable computation so here is the the idea how it works imagine that I have a program any program any deterministic program this can be verify a set of uh transactions but can be anything I mean any you training learning model yeah anything yeah ex anything machine that program that takes one week to compute that okay so have an input you know that the program will uh uniquely generate an

134. 1:20:15

     output because it's a deterministic program and I give you the result to you so you know the program you know the the program and you have the result and you want to verify uh you you okay you have the result but are you sure that this result is correct well the obvious way is okay you can verify that I mean you just take the same computer the make super computer you run the program again

135. 1:20:37

     uh stay for a week and then you see that the result is the same okay the computation is valid okay but there is a better way to do that and the the better way is okay I I create I have the program I of course I need to spend one week running the program but besides doing the computation I also generate a um computation proof a z a z proof okay so it's a very small cryptographic like

136. 1:21:02

     a kind of a signature okay as a cryptographic part and then I give you the result I give you the signature or this this proof this computational proof and the cool thing is that you don't need to run the program again you can verify that the computation is valid in very few milliseconds and the cool thing is that no no matter how long is this program no matter how big it can be one week of computation 10 years of computation can

137. 1:21:31

     be the computation of a full blockchain I mean it can be whatever computation you want that the verification it takes very few millisecond just to verify and this thing that's quite new I mean this U suen part the zero knowledge the suen computation part this was uh until 2010 or so was not even possible so the research level was at at level but this is what allows blockchains to scale because what what what's the big limitation of the current of the current

138. 1:22:06

     blockchains of current layer ones is that I mean the consensus is expensive and if you want to reach consensus that means that all the all the nodes in the network they need to I mean when somebody propose a note all of them in order to accept this consensus they need to execute that no they need to take the transactions and and check the the the signatures check that they have enough enough balance if it's a uh VM uh

139. 1:22:30

     machine I mean they need to execute the the code or the smart contracts the transactions and um you want and these notes if you want a really decentralized Network these notes cannot be huge notes I mean well you can put big notes and you scale five maches yeah but but I mean if you want to if you but this against decentralization I mean if you want to have relative L small notes and you want

140. 1:22:55

     to scale this is limited so the number of transactions that each note can execute is is is limited so the cool thing here is that the zero knowledge allows you to okay maybe somebody uh gets transactions somebody uh creates um this zero knowledge and then in the consensus layer they don't need the nodes they don't need to re execute all these transactions they just need to verify this proof and agree that this proof is valid and this proof is I tell you it's very few milliseconds actually

141. 1:23:26

     you can do it in a smart contract um in in in in ethereum in near I think there you also implement the pings thing so it's uh and so this is in in the you you you can do that and this is what really allows us to to to to to scale blockchains actually there are two pieces one is this execution this this this technology the ZK uh technology and the other of course is the data availability data availability okay this is cool but you need to put the data needs to be in the own well to verify

142. 1:23:57

     the proof you need to see the data what is the transactions went in and you need everybody else to be able to actually reconstruct the state exactly so that needs to be available because I could I mean the idea is okay I could get get do I mean get reach a consensus for some valid state but if you don't know how to this estate was built nobody will be able to build the next estate because

143. 1:24:21

     okay it's a high trth okay but you need you need information yeah yeah you need the information there so an information requirements is that needs to be available so that anybody should be able to to have access to this information this is the data availability and I mean this is looks like a simple program a sing simple problem but actually it's one of the hardest uh uh problems uh to solve and by the way I mean near is is

144. 1:24:48

     is is is is leading the space in this data availability near is one one of the uh networks with best sharding with that avilability I mean this is good in in in in in that site so yeah so this is the yeah this is complimentary yeah to the abses yeah and I think kind of maybe to to expand a little bit on this the idea that any kind of computation anywhere can be proven with the cinc proof right and verified by anybody else within milliseconds it also means that some of

145. 1:25:23

     the things that right now like you can only do with consensus you can now kind of do in like you know on the personal server on the some set of servers and then just provide a proof and so this kind of else unlocks a lot more provable compute which is bringing us to the kind of broader Vision right where people you know are in control uh and you know you like right now if you're using any service right they can change their database like there's engineer who can like Lally go and run an you know update

146. 1:25:55

     query on your data and you will not be able to like even detect that right but here you have this probability and that's kind of fundamentally changing both the blockchain space but also broader space and so kind of bringing this to to web assembly um so for us when we started um we actually banned the zero knowledge words in the in our office back when we had an office and we

147. 1:26:19

     started and this was for a reason that in 2009 it didn't really work it didn't scale it was really slow uh it worked like on smaller things like back then like it was hard to imagine evm would be provable and it would be too easy when we were designing near to say well actually this can be done with Zer knowledge proof but we cannot implement it and so like the yes there is a design with zero knowledge proofs but we cannot

148. 1:26:44

     implement it and so we ended up building the data availability but also shed execution and kind of uh the Tak them around that and people who've been at the talk yesterday for Bowen seen kind of the evolution of that but with zero knowledge now working right and especially kind of starting to uh scale to this more generic computation the being able to prove this zero knowledge kind of for web assembly and web assembly is a generic VM it's VM that runs on every device like every

149. 1:27:16

     device you have right now there is a web assembly running on multiple different applications it runs on Edge on iot devices it's a generic technology that has kind of very wide adoption being able to prove that will unlock kind of provable compute on the on edge it will provide you know provable compute on your laptop and it can provide provable comput for blockchains and in turn also

150. 1:27:41

     allow to continue scaling the blockchains and continue scaling the um kind of what we can do with this technology yeah there is um to mention mention maybe two important applications in the blockchain because one thing is of course the scaling blockchains themselves I mean building call it a layer two but I mean theend is this set of data availability and uh the computational proof to to scale but this uh technology also plays an important role in thrust L bridging I mean when I

151. 1:28:14

     mean when you want to prove some a chain in another chain you I mean if the other chain are able to verify you can prove the full chain that the full state is in the other chain so this is important for this trustless breing I I like more the word is a little bit old but this double pegging just to distinguish uh the bridge of multi6 I mean you know this this work around I mean it's real

152. 1:28:38

     bridging of blockchains this is what allows you this a trustless I mean you don't need to trust anybody it's just the math and and and then you can I mean you can prove one chain to another chain and one chain to another chain so this allows us to connect different chain so uh I mean connecting for example near with ethereum is is is per perfectly possible with this uh technology and I

153. 1:29:00

     think I mean that's an important note because indeed right now the bridges are either a multi sake of some parties or what we've had at near and some other blockchains have is a light line verification right where you just verify the block headers but you don't verify that compute was correct and so there is you know an economic attack that's possible where if the value of the bridge is higher than let's say 30% or

154. 1:29:27

     kind of uh you can start actually doing some interesting things now with your knowledge if you have a full client proof right the proof of all the computation there's no way to actually violate the rules of the blockchain with whatever amount of stake like even if they have 100% of stake they cannot actually violate it right and you need to change the circuit on the other side first to do that and so

155. 1:29:50

     that is kind of the benefit but it also means that now the security of all the blockchains is getting kind of aligned I call kind of chain obstruction because you now have you know the security of all the blockchains is getting more and more unified and there's a lot of like you know details how this is done but now it's less about that and more about the applications and kind of things on

156. 1:30:13

     top that people are benefiting from yeah I mean I think that having the wasm uh ZK wasm I mean this should allow to proof the full near uh chain wherever so this has a a bunch of applications another application that I think is important to mention is for like clients uh like clients I mean right now if you want if you have a mobile phone and you want to verify the chain you either trust some server somewhere or uh you can have a I mean you have the last block and

157. 1:30:51

     then you have a proof that the last block is the the one that's correct and this is and and you can't verify that block in few milliseconds right now a light client they need to synchronize a full chain or at least from certain point so this zik wasm is also important I mean uh uh also for verifying the the the full chain in a in a mobile phone so that's why I mean I so excited on this on this uh for this technology I think that this is for for near is a a a step

158. 1:31:25

     super important step uh for for for for for scaling and we'll see that uh this will change um the space I mean this technology will change the the the space of uh uh how the how the how the layer ones are I mean we were maybe in a place where there were like a lot of layer ones uh any application any dab or any application was thinking in creating their own layer one and well you know the difficulty that means creating layer ones so I believe that's going to be a

159. 1:32:03

     world where with much less uh layer ones and much more layer twos with these uh U execution environments and of course wasm is is is an important piece uh for these layer to yeah I think in general it's it's the boundary between what is layer one layer two is also kind of becoming less clear right because sensus I mean when when I when when you talk at least in my in my mindset when when I hear layer one uh I'm always thinking in the consensus

160. 1:32:35

     layer uh probably I think it's a better definition than layer one because layer one is more yeah say layer zero and layer zero yeah um so I think yeah I agree that there will be more like even if there there is more consensus layers because you can prove each one so like ethereum as well right polygon is working on type one prover which allows to compress the whole ethereum chain as well so you will be able to do the same thing with ethereum and so you can put that

161. 1:33:04

     ethereum proof on there you can put that etherium Pro on polygon POS on on tender on like on C on different chains I mean in private chains I mean you you can you can prove the full chain in exactly and so similarly yeah you can run a private private chain or in our case private Shard and prove that and then like you don't need to reveal the data that and transactions that happening there

162. 1:33:28

     because for example it's a private chart like for private transactions but you can still verify to everyone that it's correctly executed and it can hold balances for example on public chain for the users on private so like there's new use cases that are kind of because of this unification of security that are opening up as well as just generally kind of expanding what's possible with this right right you can have you know

163. 1:33:52

     single server and have less censorship resistance you can have you know a like separate consensus Network to and have censorship resistance you can leverage other networks to kind of have Force transaction inclusion so you can have all those different options and uh indeed like kind of this technology really opens this up and and we just seen kind of the beginning of this exactly so I mean and kind of within

164. 1:34:18

     this topic I think might be interesting to to talk about the the value Network and the kind of the aggregate liquidity and aggregate you know user base right because uh kind of I mentioned this that you know we're really trying kind of a lot of uh work in the ecosystem went into kind of making the experience easier right making the interactions with blockchains more straightforward easy for Consumer and at the same time because of this kind of zero knowledge

165. 1:34:49

     you know full client proofs aligning uh UNIF unification of security what it means is now the value can smoothly move around right and so you guys kind of introduce this value layer uh nomenclature exactly the Z I mean this this this the cool thing of these proofs is that once generated I mean you don't need to White uh uh it's already proven okay this is compared for example with optimistic ways that I mean you need to wait for this challenging period and so on so if we are able to

166. 1:35:21

     uh generate to create this proof fast enough that means that the communication between the chains uh become become fast and if you have and this is the idea of the idea of the polygon 2.0 the idea of polygon 2.0 the idea is to have like a different set of networks uh with different maybe different token with different governance some of them more centralized sequencer or more decentralized sequencer but they

167. 1:35:52

     share uh single security rules I mean is you do what whatever you want but the rules that manage the the main Bridge or if you want the the the liquidity the the liquidity pool you cannot do what you want okay so you need to follow the yeah you cannot like print tokens exactly so that's and and here the the the rules uh the rules are set in the in the in this uh ZK and if you uh I mean

168. 1:36:18

     if you agree on these rules on on this Z k then the idea is that the transfers the value transfers between the different chains can happen really really fast and this is the little bit the the idea of the of the system so that uh having different networks but single single liquidity but then you can you can prove you can transfer the ownership through this zero through this zero knowledge and this allows us to to scale in a parallel way here we are

169. 1:36:49

     talking always the scalability goes in two directions one thing is um I mean scaling a single chain this is zero knowledge is important but then if you are able to connect the chains in in in with with fast transactions with this proof then you have like it's not having a processor that's fast it's having like many processors so you have many processors and those processors are fast

170. 1:37:11

     here it's a new space uh I mean here we open to a new a new a new era in in the in the in in the blockchain Bas yeah so I mean near actually was designed exactly like this right just without zero knowledge lots of parallel processors trying to interconnect them as fast as possible so you can actually move value between them and then unifying The Experience so users don't need to care about that and so I think now with your knowledge working with polygon there's kind of an opportunity

171. 1:37:41

     to to broaden what that means right not just for near ecosystem but also polygon ethereum and kind of even broader than that and I think for you know you always kind of I mean you obviously personally been in ethereum EOS system very deeply polygon is obviously very uh close in this I think like I'm curious how you think about this kind of ethereum alignment and kind of generally like how

172. 1:38:05

     do you think this evolving uh from from the more like you know lenss of everybody working together well this is a I think that this I mean this technology allows you to connect this network so uh I feeling that the isolation maybe prob but now there is a lot of layer ones and they are quite isolated one each other and and I mean they have their own system their own Community is different difficult to transfer but this I mean these systems

173. 1:38:36

     allows these connections allow this so here is and at the end I mean we're sharing the same values more or less all of us we come from Bitcoin I mean so it's the the idea of decentralization at some point so uh I think that this uh technology is an opportunity to um to work together work together again I mean to to to work on that uh of course each one comes from each network is background but uh joining and having like a single like having a single internet or having a

174. 1:39:09

     single chain if you want a set of chains that are constellation of chains that that that connects one each other I think that this dream uh is possible than thank you to this technology we are very early in the stage I mean this technology is quite new I mean but I think this is the clearly this is the the the way to go yeah it's like connecting you know we have right now South America internet

175. 1:39:33

     North America internet European internet and we're actually starting to connect them and being able to cre these highways I mean this at the moment we have highway so we have airlines that fly from one place to the other so this of course will transform the the world or transform the world of blockchains this case so what are you most excited in the next year and kind of space well I think that this seeing this this this networks uh working together working

176. 1:39:57

     together connecting being singho scaling for me I mean I'm mean I'm in the space for for the people to use it uh as an engineer for me makes no sense to build things that that that's that useless so uh my dream is to to start seeing applications start seeing many applications I think that the the possibilities are huge and we haven't we have not started I mean the technology uh is not ready yet at least for most of the applications that needs

177. 1:40:27

     to come so uh I hope that in upcoming uh months and years uh we start seeing this expansion and this uh I mean especially in the number of users and users that take profit of this uh technology that's what I'm more excited about yeah agree I mean that's you know our Focus have been on like how do we bring more consumer applications which can benefit from this technology which can leverage it and at the same time you know continue investing and innovating on the underlying layers such that the there's

178. 1:40:58

     more and more scale but also you know versatility of the uh infrastructure and functionality and so I think this partnership allows us to do a lot of cool things it kind of allows to scale near blockchain itself it allows to connect to other blockchains it allows to also push things in more wider range of provable compute across uh kind of the whole not just web 3 but uh broader technology space at the same time it allows to kind of start to work together in in a more I would say kind

179. 1:41:32

     of friendly way in in such sense that we actually not you know trying to build our own uh kind of small tribes which is which always felt weird to me when we say like I mean especially we we frame everything as open web and it's really weird when people are trying to close and like okay this is our ecosystem right it's like well it's kind of we have a lot of indeed like shared value we have a lot of uh things that we're

180. 1:41:56

     working together on uh we've been working with a lot of other blockchains from kind of early on at least talking and making sure that uh the ideas are shared the kind of um the technology is you know moving along for everyone and we are able to actually innovate here and so yeah I'm really excited I uh really appreciate you coming here and uh I hope this was very informative and exciting and uh we'll see a lot more of

181. 1:42:20

     kind of innovation coming from this technology stack thank you check check thank you so much to Ilia and Jordie for a great talk there well uh the good news is two bits of good news really firstly it's lunchtime secondly for any of you that still have a wallet with some Encon there are some insane deals being dropped over at the swag store there's not much left now it's your last last chance to get that final souvenir or momento uh I think five Enon is the value of the t-shirts

182. 1:43:04

     now so you can really go and stock up fill your boots as we would say in English uh please come back here at 1 p.m. we have some very very high level speakers um I can't say more but a fantastic moderator will be Wheeling onto the stage so please come back at 1 p.m. thank you

183. 1:45:19

     yeah

184. 1:49:49

     ah

185. 1:58:48

     on

186. 2:01:43

     I I want so long you keep me

187. 2:03:17

     n w

188. 2:04:47

     n n

189. 2:09:24

     please welcome back near foundations Martin best welcome back ladies and gentlemen I would say we probably have our most rock and roll moderator coming on next there's always a challenge if you're on day three how do you stand out how do you be distinctive um well this woman I think has achieved that she's the only only person who's coming on to stage with her own vehicle she decided that she had to bring her own wheels and so she's going to be Wheeling herself out to moderate a

190. 2:09:57

     really interesting panel today about 2024 and what decentralized democracy will look like so please welcome Miss yera bloa hey everyone you ready to talk about decentralized democratization awesome well I am eer blocker I am head of events at near Foundation we have AVB and we have Blaze so oh Martin Martin Martin can Martin developers developers developers actually while I'm running and grabbing something do you guys want to introduce yourself yes sure yeah hey everyone I'm

191. 2:10:44

     uh blae been with the ecosystem since before Main neet a validator uh helped organize the validators of mainnet with the open Shard Alliance uh co-founder of cheddar and also champion of the NDC so governance for near ecosystem thank you bla my name is IB um I've been in the near ecos System since 2021 I've seen a long evolution of governance from the first guilds to the marketing Dow and everything in between recently got

192. 2:11:18

     elected into the transparency commission for the NDC and uh yeah that's got a podcast awesome all right so what does 2024 look like for decentralized democracy um let's start with first defining what democracy is and why it matters yeah so democracy generally is really about representation of a collective of people and so the NDC near digital Collective is about the representation of the near ecosystem we have a lot of different audiences that

193. 2:11:57

     are part of that so we've got stakeholders that are the backers of our ecosystem uh validators developers are users content creators so there's a lot of different uh you know factions within the ecosystem and really governance is designed to be representative of those to ensure sure that the ecosystem grows and is sustained over time I think that the core you have participation in decision making then you can start adding as many uh

194. 2:12:31

     qualifiers you it could be direct democracy delegated democracy pretend democracy but as a whole you'd be looking at how people engage with each other to make decisions that concern them amazing um so both you blae and ABB you've been with the near ecosystem for as long as I can remember I joined back in January 2021 um and I just remember seeing you both contributing being a part of it the NTC has existed for just over a year now it was one of near con's biggest

195. 2:13:05

     announcements last year coinus covered it it really seemed like things were moving towards the right direction for what decentralization looks like for near protocol now looking at the last year there's been there's been a lot of activity when we're talking The Good the Bad the Ugly all of it now what the NDC is trying to accomplish is super hard so tell me what are some of the biggest accompl accomplishments in your

196. 2:13:38

     viewpoints yeah so I think the big accomplishments that we did uh really over this last year was number one establish a governance framework so we looked at a lot of governance across many ecosystems and then you know from there decided what really would be representative of the near ecosystem so we created three governing bodies which now are happy to announce that we have the first elective Congress members to that governance framework so 29 elected

197. 2:14:07

     members uh elected by the community now operating within that governance framework so that was a big one the second thing we did was it's very difficult governance in general is difficult we know that in real world governance it's not quite uh you know what what we want so trying to design systems that are new and improve upon what we have is is interesting but in web 3 that we have a primary Challenge and that is like who is the community

198. 2:14:37

     who are the members that should have voting power what we've traditionally seen as stake we of voting where you know the founders the backers the VCS the whales come in and they have most of the voting power and most voting mechanisms well we decided to turn that upside down because what we looked at was that most of our active contributors in the ecosystem didn't have necessarily a ton of near so what we did instead was created proof of personhood where you

199. 2:15:07

     could really register to become a human of near and then if you were human then you could vote the the other thing that we did to make sure that the members that were going to be elected to Congress had some vested interest uh in the ecosystem is we created a OG SBT so we created a soulbound token standard for the ecosystem so soulbound tokens are something that tie to a soul and we knew that was really important so proof of personhood with uh sbts allowed you

200. 2:15:37

     to become an OG allowed you to declare your your nomination and then to be elected by the community uh the third thing that we did was and we took this proof of person hood and we had a one person one vote uh election process so that's what elected uh the you know the current Congress and we had about 892 or so you know folks show up to vote so that was quite interesting so it is definitely a social experiment that we really haven't seen in web 3 uh yet so

201. 2:16:09

     we've got a new experiment underway here so actually let's let's talk a bit about the elections sorry Alejandro um but tell me more about like the various houses how often are you planning these elections this was obviously the first what's what's kind of taking off from here from those learnings yeah everyb you're aware you want to chime in here depending when you ask you'll get a different answer so you got to pick the you got to pick the speaker just the

202. 2:16:39

     biggest accomplishment and this ties with your question I think that getting to the destination like being alive would be the biggest accomplishment um it's almost like you're driving a car you crash and then you keep going yeah there are many lessons along the way and uh yeah I think it's important to put in context that as we describe things as they are now they're probably going to be evolving very soon and there's been

203. 2:17:03

     many lessons learned already uh question the three houses mhm so the are three houses as a House of Merit 15 people Council of advisers seven people and transparency commission seven people the initial uh idea was that the house of married people would be elected due to their experience and the value that they could contribute they'd be placed in a position to be able to allocate the budget

204. 2:17:27

     responsibly there would be there would be oversight from the Council of advisers even more Senior People veto power they can provide advice as an name implies but also make sure that the house of Merit is kept in reign and then the transparency commission it's meant to be an independent body to provide ecosystem wide oversight and uh yeah that's the theory there's been uh yeah

205. 2:17:53

     wants to jump in yeah so I mean I think he hit it but you know Council advisors is more of your board so they have that strategic direction making sure that the budget allocation is really aligned with where we're going as an ecosystem making sure that those funds are deployed correctly also helping the house of Merit with vision policy and things of that nature as well and then we say the trans transparency commission which AVB is a member of are the Watchdogs of the

206. 2:18:22

     treasury and of of the governance framework ensuring that if we do have Bad actors enter the scene that you know we have processes and procedures to remove those Strokes from governance uh after there's been an investigation and of course H is about deploying the budget and also setting a lot of the policies on how governance works for the ecosystem so I was on maternity leave when the elections were taking place and I know I know and I was very present

207. 2:18:52

     with my son but every now and then I would pop on Twitter and I would take a look at what was going on and transparency was something that I saw in some threads you're obviously deeply involved ABB where do you think we need to shine more transparency on the centralized governance it's almost like a like a noxor no they are fundamentally incompatible we're creating smart contracts so that we remove human trust we're removing middlemen we don't have to rely on some mediocre person to perform something

208. 2:19:26

     like we're putting the trust in the system the challenge is how do we govern this immutable efficient code that is better than you know what came before it if we also put humans in the middle so decentralized governance need to be seen in that you know Spectrum or trying to progress we spend spend a lot of time I say we Loosely BL with gwg and me with transparency commission now we're spending a lot of time putting in place Frameworks that if the person in charge

209. 2:19:58

     of uh acting on it do their job they're great if they choose to disappear for three months nothing happens so the challenges that we have now are trying to reconcile the autonomous part in a DA with the responsibility of stepping up to public office with the reality that everyone may not be as skilled or as experienced or just as committed to getting the job done so yeah I think that as we move forward from that base

210. 2:20:29

     and acknowledging that the written word is correct we need to move into that human side of things or skip that all together and just go to the AI end MH well so speaking of AI yesterday Ilia talked a lot about AI governance what what are some of the behind the scenes ideas game plans tell me that you're aware of what's coming to the table what do we expect more from AI governance in 2024 is it going to be a Pitch at 230 uh

211. 2:21:05

     one thing that is really unique about the near ecosystem is the remarkable speed that we go from idea vision and execution um often we execute first and then we find out later so people are going to be very surprised very soon that this seemingly New Vision that Ilia has presented yesterday around AI governance is actually already fairly Advanced and there are experiments that will be revealed to you in about an hour and I think the right way to see it

212. 2:21:38

     is we'll be a long way till we get to AI president at the moment it's really more of like a unified layer of compliance and due diligence instead of putting a proposal here and getting an outcome there and a black box in the Middle where the realities people don't read the proposals they do not do due diligence Etc you're going to have much faster turnaround times you're going to

213. 2:22:02

     have a system that is able to process unlimited information as much as you throw it they can go through keepa repos better than most technical Grant proposers so there's going to be a layer of efficiency to enable us to better guide the ecosystem and uh yeah I think that that would be at the grant allocation level that would basically acknowledge that the roadblock that we have now is we're desperate for funding and the community is kind of suffering but we're also not trusting each other

214. 2:22:33

     so we've hit the handbrake and uh yeah AI are friends not foes and I would uh I would welcome that that that era yeah and I can certainly see how AI is going to play a role in you know taking the emotion out of the equation so one of the thing that we know is that in governance even with these 29 elected individuals we have many different cultures many different languages um different understanding of what you know folks think governance is right so AI is

215. 2:23:07

     going to allow us to use that as a tool to take the emotion out of the decisionmaking longer term and to make decisions that are based on actually factual data so um part of the challenge that we experience with electing all these ogs is that we have you know a lot of folks that are active contributors to the near ecosystem and they may not always have the time available uh to contribute

216. 2:23:31

     fully or maybe they're not engag or not quite understanding uh governance in general so I think AI will help us bridge that Gap as well to bring more cohesive understanding to the collective of what governance is how we're progressing where we're going and use that as a real tool and asset mayb you mentioned earlier while we were chatting that democracy is often tied to the tools and Technology we have now if we look at next year and even the years beyond that what are some governance

217. 2:24:03

     experiments besides AI besides what we're playing with today that you think need to emerge what will emerge what are you dreaming of for the future with governance excellent question so the framework for governance is as you mentioned limited to technology so if we think of Elections every five years we could have them more often we could have them on specific issues like we just had a referend them in Australia ises it it is so expensive and it is so

218. 2:24:34

     much work that due to the constraints the operational constraints we just don't do it very often there should be a correlation between a system that is efficient cheap and even more Trust worthy to enable you to do more decisions and this is where the scope of governance is going to start to evolve because even if we look at something like inflation data it's been spoken about recently in popular podcasts that the tools that we have for Gathering the

219. 2:25:05

     data are inefficient and you know the information is often lagging up to six months they're very blond tools for making very big decisions so the vision for the open web basically acknowledges that if we have the right data we can make really like much better decisions and we're going to enter a world where we're going to start seeing data Commons and public goods and this is where the

220. 2:25:34

     governance comes in you know how do we manage these new structures that are in many ways autonomous um does that make sense yeah totally I think you know mention I see Alla frowning so in if we look at the power of llms to date they're amazing but they've been trained in mostly private data so as we realize how valuable that information is then the question is who is going to own all the data from now into the future that will

221. 2:26:04

     power systems that are going to create 100 times more value like everything is going to be interconnected you know AI is are going to be engaging with each other through AI if we have machines engaging with each other through Ai and creating a lot of value who owns that Network who owns that data it's basically governance all the way up the stack and yeah you should do it on the near protocol Blaze do you have any comments

222. 2:26:27

     to add to that yeah so what's the future look like for governance um you know we know that AI plays a big role in it but I think we're going to continue to experiment with uh decentralization as part of the process as well so it's really about how you take a network and distribute the power to the greatest ends right because the the power of a network is in its band so uh we really

223. 2:26:50

     need to continue to distribute power give more autonomy where autonom is deserved right make sure that autonomy is something that we can have within decentralization uh you know we know that folks are are very tribal in nature so figuring out how governance supports that right and supports collectives not just one Collective but many collectives to self-organize to build own autonomy and then request funding so that the ecosystem continues to grow so I think

224. 2:27:22

     we'll see much more experience experiments in governance where we've seen more centralized governance we'll see if we can find a way through a AI really to begin to really understand and see true decentralized governance at work you know yeah and near is an ecosystem that really believes in an open web obviously near con theme this year is step into the open web so I might be biased I think we're doing it the best I think we're actually getting to true decentralization of the protocol

225. 2:27:56

     but if we look at other ecosystems who who else is doing it who's doing it well what are they doing yeah one of the models that a lot of folks are looking at you know that has been quite successful is gitcoin and the model that they've done in terms of Distributing grants and we looked at that one quite a bit and tried to look at what the shortfalls were there and then expand upon those as well we

226. 2:28:20

     actually have some of those folks that were consultants for us as well that came in and help look at our governance models to to do it but I think it's about you know we know that there is going to need to be Humanity at the heart of governance we need to know that we're actually giving either autonomous agents or humans funding um so I think that you know uh this proof of humanity

227. 2:28:44

     with reputation I think we're going to see a lot more of that and ecosystems that are focusing on you know their humans and building reputation for them will be a critical part to governance and growth yeah when I think of gitcoin and I think of Kevin aukee I often think of public goods and just really having access and that's something I think they do such a good job at pushing and promoting which I see as a big driver for decentralization ABB I well there

228. 2:29:16

     assuring thing is that it's a disaster everywhere it's a classic tragic moment when you're so good at your job you get promoted to become a manager and then you stop doing what you're good at so governance is split either in Engineers who are not really the best at governance or people that see the money that the engineers are creating the value and are trying to prioritize for

229. 2:29:40

     short-term profit it's very hard to get human alignment every time that you try to get aligned then they say it's not decentralized anymore so it's almost like your values are being used against you to extract as much value as possible we need to find a way to yeah bring the AI yeah well I mean one year is really just a short amount of time I look at you know all the entire world right now has systemic issues and when you're taking democracy and you're

230. 2:30:11

     trying to transform it and redefine it you're really going uphill again hundreds of years of these systemic issues that have been in place that don't work for society right now how long do you think it's going to take until we really feel Improvement and what we're doing even transfers to the rest of the world whether it's like an election fraud preventing that create giving more public goods access to the people throw two tears there the first thing is that in the real world it's

231. 2:30:45

     very hard because if you don't like the government and they can only be one you have to leave in the web 3 world it's fascinating because if you don't like dndc and you don't like IL yet you can just Fork it and there's some factions out there thinking of just splitting ways if things get back so the fact that we can create new competing groups and always strive for excellence and have

232. 2:31:08

     many experiments and just battle it out until something works should give everyone hope um if the ultimate goal is to have the the open web stack the that was the protocol that you're the which one the part never number things so really my point was you know the systems we have today have been in place for hundreds of years in my opinion I don't think there's been much change someone can definitely debate that point with me um but with what we're trying to do with the NDC I mean

233. 2:31:41

     how soon do you think we'll start to really see impact not just like within the near ecos system but even start to translate into other parts of the world or other ecosystems yeah I think that you know the the data is what AV was trying to allude to is that we need systems to support the path to decentralization we need systems that can really look at the data look at what the impact was that's where AI really enters the scene so we know that um you know it's going to take

234. 2:32:13

     probably at least you know 3 to 5 years on any strategy to see something really fully develop the thing that we've always said about NDC is that it's evolving governance and really what that means is that we want to evolve the governance as we learn more as we experiment more as a community gives more feedback as we have more tooling like AI coming in to give additional feedback as well we want to make sure

235. 2:32:37

     that governance really evolves to do two things uh sustain the near ecosystem and grow the ne near ecosystem and that means really uh you know supporting all of the representatives or all the collectives within it so uh it's going to be a narrative that just grows over time what we can see happening though is that we will have like AB said we'll probably have Forks of NDC right is NDC going to be the only you know governance system is it going to be the only

236. 2:33:10

     treasury uh that remains to be seen some folks have more of a vision of a centralized model of governance some want to test decentralization so I see I think we'll see the nodes in the near ecosystem continue to expand as we go across chain there will be several governance models sever several governance Frameworks uh many of those will be iterations of NDC maybe they'll say oh NDC V1 we want to take that we want that to be our governance system and then we'll have this continual evolution of governance

237. 2:33:44

     and some may decide to say stay on the old version some may decide to go to the new version but that really is a power of building the network and allowing nodes to have their own autonomy do you have any comments CH ABB yeah I've uh I think that we need to be careful not to do governance for governance sake if we're going to have a positive impact in the world is going to be the neor tech stack so we need to see the governance as like the minimum thing

238. 2:34:14

     that we can do to have the highest impct Community treasury should be seen as a pile of gold it's a privilege to access it we invite the best and brightest Pates your idea and if it's good we give you money if not that's the end of the story and it should be all those you know top Dee contributors that we aggregate um that start delivering it's very hard to assess how much progress we've had in the near ecosystem in general and in governance because there's been many Primitives falling in

239. 2:34:44

     place and I think that if you were where to aggregate the presentations from nearon most people would probably come to the conclusion that they can build something now that they could not have possibly built one year ago so it's almost like we have to reset the timer and say okay with this on boarding with data availability with the multi-chain abstraction like we have to start from the yeah we need to reset our

240. 2:35:08

     expectations including what we fund and how we fund it I'm personally have the view that nothing should get funded unless that Tex t gets implemented unless you're maximizing the advantage that near provides to you we're wasting money yeah no a bit of maybe a lighter question but also a big passion area for myself I really look at diversity I look at culture and you know I look at diversity of all layers diversity of

241. 2:35:37

     thought diversity of background geography uh I'm a full believer that the more diverse you have diversity you have in whatever you're doing the more informed and more intentional and just more refined your project or outcome will even become what are you going to do in 2024 to kind of help bring in more diversity within the NDC yeah you know it's interesting the governing bodies are quite diverse today but when you look at diversity you also have to assess you know um when we're

242. 2:36:10

     talking about specifically governance what are the skill sets of these individuals right so what we did is we started with just the OG gbt so if you've been in the near ecosystem you could run you could be elected right most folks had a minimum of a 100 votes to be able to get elected but as we've kind of done this experiment we've also realized that there are many cultural differences within the NDC and the way that one culture May interact is significantly different than others so

243. 2:36:40

     we do have to like breed a culture of collaboration and Innovation that's at the heart of it so I think that focusing on ways to build environments that are collaborative and Innovative where people really are there for one purpose to work together one another and we're starting to see that amongst the houses now while where there was some specific you know uh critiques or things like that more folks are saying hey now it's time to work together so I think we've got to continue to breed that culture

244. 2:37:13

     and culture is part of the transparency commission's commission is to ensure that we have good culture within the ecosystem within the NDC itself so I think that'll be a major topic for these next governance sessions I think the the diversity question is hard because sometimes people focus too much on the individual the best performing teams and most diverse that have been in no one

245. 2:37:38

     feels like they're feeling A diversity quota and everyone feels like an equal you know there's a there's a shared mission and there's an access to opportunity that people just take it so I think that we should be thinking about it more like EOS systemwide you know which regions do we want to have a presence in and the opportunities clear to them can we find leaders in those regions to activate groups with uh noed the amount of babies

246. 2:38:04

     and we've discussed seriously like hey we should have child care next year you know our third panelist had to fly early home because of family issue so I think that we can be very pragmatic but always acknowledging that you know we've got the mission and yeah need to find the people where they are but yeah I'm I'm a big believer in skill set right the more diverse the skill sets you have the more complimentary your teams are you know maintaining that agility especially because we work in

247. 2:38:37

     such a fast-paced Innovative space being Nimble being able to fast act yeah I think it has to be in the NDC too just to follow up on that and I know that Ilia covered it quite a bit uh in the presentation the other day but gatekeeping right so one of the things that we really got to look at in NDC is how many rules are we going to establish for instance when you said diversity we

248. 2:39:00

     certainly need more women in governance right and we certainly need all kinds of culture and diversity but the moment you begin to start to make these rules around these things enforce those agendas then we start gatekeeping the process so I think it's really going to be through Community discourse that we find out what is the right balance you know on these different topics and that

249. 2:39:24

     goes from everything to what skill set should you have to actually be elected right do you need to have certain you need to understand Finance budgets you know uh kpis okrs do you need that level or can you just be a Community member so I think through discourse we'll need to continue to find what the balance is there but also be real clear about not making too many rules too fast because that will really create a system of centralization faster than we would

250. 2:39:55

     anticipate well and I think those are some of the systems that we're trying to combat as we even get into next year um now I can talk about that for hours while we are at time I do want to leave it here for any closing comments anything you want to let the audience know um if we could get the NDC QR code up on the screens that would be great so yeah leave it with you guys any last closing comments yeah we've entered a new era uh for a while there was a lot of

251. 2:40:26

     Grievances and complaints and we finally have the chance to shape things in the way that you want um if you see something and it's kind of crap you can just start a competing alternative o second time sorry and yeah if you want to get involved now would be a good time um this is now hours to uh make it succeed or fail so if you're interested just reach out yeah and I would say the

252. 2:40:50

     same thing if you're not happy with NDC or you feel you have something to contribute this is your moment you can join the movement it's still very open all you have to be right now as a human on near to be able to vote and make your voice heard so please check out the QR code if it's up there join the NDC it's a community Le initiative to build governance and funding these centralized funding on the near ecosystem uh so we really appreciate your contribution and

253. 2:41:21

     thank you yeah ABB pleas oh sorry go ahead I was going to say uh if you want to get involved also now would be the time because the AI is coming I'll say you at 2:30 well thank you AB blae this was amazing let's continue to keep in touch and chat about next year thanks everyone well I did tell you that only the original ogs like yira get to come onto the stage in their own wheels but we have another fantastic OG of the near

254. 2:42:12

     ecosystem coming on now talking uh from proximity Labs I'd love to welcome Mr Kendall Cole hey everyone my name is kendle I'm the co-founder of proximity labs and I'm here to talk a little bit about scaling blockchains if I can get it to oh are we there we go scaling blockchains uh and nears approaches to doing this and how we are participating in both a mon monolithic and modular scaling environment okay there we go uh so to

255. 2:43:05

     understand how we are approaching scaling blockchains let's first touch a little bit on what the bottle NEX are so there's three major things that blockchains do um the first is that they execute transac there's execute transactions which basically means when you do a Unis swap uh transaction you're swapping from USC to ethereum that computation of the change in your balance is execution the next thing they do is blockchains store the result of

256. 2:43:29

     these transactions and very importantly they make that new state available when the next round of execution is going to happen and we call that data availability it's is probably a term you've heard a lot this week and we'll continue to hear a lot and the final thing they do is they settle these transactions and really what this means is you have like validators coming to consensus and ideally providing some kind of guarantees that the the state will remain the state until the next

257. 2:43:55

     block comes in and you'll hear a lot about finality as part of this uh so there's two major approaches to scaling blockchains the first is sorry little bit delayed on the uh on the transitions here the first is monolithic scaling uh and that's basically where you have a single layer one that is responsible for everything it's responsible for execution settlement and data availability and this is what near has originally been doing uh it's also what Solana is doing um so near does this by

258. 2:44:27

     sharting which means that you have different sets of validators that are responsible for executing different transactions and storing different parts of state but then they settle into a single blockchain Solana takes a different approach where they essentially use increasingly powerful Hardware to have all of their validators compute execution settlement and and provide data availability um and then the other approach to scaling is modular

259. 2:44:51

     scaling and this is where you actually split up between potentially multiple l1s settlement and data availability and then execution using different layers uh this could be layer twos or even layer 3es um and here are a few of the of the ways this is split up so you have ethereum responsible for settlement and also near you have ethereum and near and now uh Celestia as well responsible for data availability and then you have these layer twos you've probably heard

260. 2:45:16

     of like arbitrum optimism and polygon who are responsible for execution what's really interesting about near is that it's actually both monolithic and modular and what we mean by that is that we are a monolithic blockchain but we now have products that we're providing to the modular scaling World um so on the monolithic side and I think what's most interesting is that we're actually the only chain that's full stack what we mean by full stack is that you can

261. 2:45:41

     actually store both your front end code and your backend code or your smart contract code on the near blockchain this is exciting because it means you can maintain maximum throughput for your application with minimal overhead you don't need to maintain your own validator set you don't need to run your own sequencer that's taken care of for you um and then very importantly this provides you composability across all of

262. 2:46:03

     the layers of your application this means your front ends are actually composable just like your smart contracts are composable with other protocols so just put up a couple of examples of products that have taken advantage of this metap pool has decentralized their full stack application and the OG um OG application for for boss which is uh near social um now what's really been different about this week and what we've been announcing

263. 2:46:27

     quite a few products in is how we are offering scalability uh to the modular world as well and this is primarily about helping scale ethereum um so here's a little bit of a look at the near scaling stack uh and let's dive in so on the user layer we have boss the vision here is to unite uis for various different chains and rollups into single user experiences in addition to that we're aiming to make the these experiences extremely accessible and resilient the vision here is to make it so that if you have access

264. 2:46:58

     to the internet which means that you can access the near blockchain then you can access both the front end and the back end for these applications decentralized and censorship resistant that's the vision and what we recently announced this week as well is this vision of true multi-chain accounts and very excitingly this even includes Bitcoin uh with this account aggregation product you will be able to through your near account maintain sub accounts on any ecdsa

265. 2:47:23

     supported blockchain which is Bitcoin most of the evm world including ethereum and even a lot of Cosmos chains moving on to the next layer of the stack the execution layer here is where you probably heard Ilia earlier this week announced the partnership with polygon we're working on taking our web assembly virtual machine and actually proving it and making it more modular so that various different uh settlement and da

266. 2:47:46

     layers can compose ZK wasam into a ZK uh wasum rollup um and of course our vision here has always been multiple different options for developers on the execution layer which is why we have the original near web assembly VM and also the near evm uh that the Aurora team built and even other virtual machines like a vanilla JavaScript virtual machine this next layer is also a layer that we announced a new product this

267. 2:48:11

     past week which is the data availability layer so the reason we did this is that data availability costs are actually the single largest expense by far for Layer Two rollups and excitingly near data availability is 8,000 times cheaper than ethereum data availability which completely changes the game for these rollups they can maintain strong security guarantees by settling to ethereum but they can have much much

268. 2:48:35

     lower costs for their uh users and this is already live on polygon cdk's test net or test net with polygon cdk and op stack and we'll be coming to mainnet soon now we have the most exciting part which is the settlement layer and this is exciting because it's actually the newest product that we've been working on which is this fast finality settlement layer for rollups and we've been building this in partnership with the igen layer

269. 2:48:59

     team um what exactly is fast finality yeah very exciting great team super excited to work with them so what is fast finality well this is going to be the ability for rollups to settle to near with layer security guarantees coming from E3 stakers and then settle to ethereum this is exciting because it enables users to transact between layer twos within 3 seconds rather than in hours in the case of ZK Roll-Ups or days in the case of optimistic Roll-Ups and extremely importantly it maintains the

270. 2:49:32

     full ethereum security guarantees and even adds an additional layer with igen layer reaker guarantees and near validator guarantees and it can be used by rollups with either centralized or decentralized sequencers so that it it's actually up to the Roa team to decide how they want to settle to this chain so let's walk through exactly how this is going to work so let's say that we have a polygon cdk rollup and arbitrum that are both using the near

271. 2:49:57

     fast finality layer so the polygon cdk uh rollup will sequencer will submit like executed transactions to the near blockchain next igen layer resters will execute these transactions to check the work of the the polygon sequencer and they'll get these transactions linear blockchain so that they don't have to trust the polygon sequencer themselves and they'll choose to either accept or most likely or most likely accept or

272. 2:50:22

     hopefully not reject those transactions then the arbitr and blockchain will be able to acknowledge that state transition and acknowledge the transaction and then finally from the polygon sequencer the transactions will be finalized however long that takes on the ethereum blockchain um and again the real magic here is that this is going to enable actual very very trust minimized composability

273. 2:50:45

     between rollups which really opens up an entirely new design space for applications so you can think of things like cross rollup swaps at the simplest level even things like flash roll flash loans between rollups little more complicated but viable asset rebalancing if there are you know rates Arbitrage you can do between different versions of a markets and then even entirely new classes of rooll of agnostic protocols

274. 2:51:08

     so to make this a little bit more real we'll go back to this this uh diagram and walk through kind of a real world use case so let's imagine that we have a user who has ethereum on polygon and wants to deposit into a and then borrow usdc and let's say that the the usdc rate is much more favorable on arbitrum so they want to get their eth to arbitrum in some way and then borrow usdc there so they can get the best rate so what they'll first do is they'll send

275. 2:51:32

     their ethereum to a contract probably the a contract on the polygon side then the sequencer from polygon will submit that transaction to near after it's been executed IG leakers will basically recheck the work and then communicate with arbitrum to let that a contract know that the the usdc should be credited to the user's account there and then excitingly eventually that transaction will be finalized on ethereum and the user can actually then

276. 2:51:57

     withdraw the usdc to mainnet from arbitrum if they so choose so the this entire process maintains that ethereum security guarantee and in the unlikely scenario that there was either igen layer resters or or near validators who are sort of computing incorrect State transitions then there'll be slashing events which which disincentivizes that type of behavior and should make that scenario never really happen so zooming out a little bit from all of this you

277. 2:52:22

     know we talked about the different layers that near is working to scale how does it all fit together you know how do we put this into kind of one thing of like what is it that near is is aiming to do and and why is it that we're trying to scale blotching this way for me I'd say it's really about this idea of chain abstraction what we're ultimately trying to enable in this very very multi-roll multi L1 multi whatever

278. 2:52:46

     layer you want to say type of world is user experiences that are completely agnostic to which underling chains are used like users just want to use applications on whatever chain has these applications that are fitting their needs they want to get the best rates they want to get the best price execution they want to buy nfts that they that resonate with them whatever it might be and then developers want to be able to create these experiences that are as fluent and and sane and direct as

279. 2:53:10

     possible so here's how it can work um and this is just a very rudimentary graph but the beginning of of what it is that we're we're trying to do here um closest to the user and and the reason the main reason we have boss is to create this unified user experience a step below that we have a similar type of solution which is this this account aggregation and fitting all these accounts together letting users have a single near account that lets them control their Bitcoin account their

280. 2:53:35

     arbitr account polygon near account ethereum whatever it might be a layer below that we have arbitrum and and polygon who are going to need like that they're going to need to move this user's assets around so that the user doesn't actually have to think about or or or take on these extremely long settlement times that'll come from optimistic or ZK rollups and that's where we have fast finality so that that experience can be seconds rather than

281. 2:53:59

     hours or days um and really really interestingly here and I think the most exciting part is that every single layer of this stack is going to be powered by n a user will actually be touching ear at multiple different layers of the stack and developers can plug in to whichever layer is solving their direct problem without having necessarily take on the entire stack we will of course have these full stack applications like ref and sweat and mint base and we will also have applications like maker Dow

282. 2:54:23

     and a and Unis swap that will be on rollups that will be using the near fast finality layer and maybe using boss so yeah to wrap it all up for us near is about chain abstraction and building and enabling this this layer for developers and users to just access whatever it is on the blockchain wherever it is without having to worry about moving their assets around or creating new accounts um or dealing with any of the complexity that comes with this increasingly fragmented scaling landscape and that's all I have for you

283. 2:54:53

     guys today thanks everyone check check thank you so much Kendall and proximity team so there are many of you in this audience who perhaps were attracted to to web 3 not just for getting rich quick although that's always an attractive proposition but because you had a real feeling that the world could be different that there's a different way of doing things and new opportunities that we can all follow and I think that

284. 2:55:33

     the uh the next panel is going to be for you because this is a really interesting group of people who share those ideas and values and they would like to talk about it so they're going to be talking not just about Lambos but the way that web 3 can help the world and the moderator is someone that has bet me five near that I'll be able to pronounce her name correctly so let's see I am English and uh this lady's name is French but I'd like to welcome our

285. 2:55:57

     moderator today Madame oreli mer hi everyone welcome hello oh I see a lot of people today thank you so much for joining so with our incredible panel today we have a lot of innovation to talk about and these guys are working in really interesting project on how we can leverage web free for really good deeds so please welcome with me first Andrew from Valco co-founder we have Steven for the etherum C

286. 2:56:44

     platform and cunder as well if I'm not Mexican and then Joel kaser so your position is Chief Innovation officer if I am right from correct adik so thank you for joining me today for this interesting panel I have a first question for all of you here so you three of you are working in the middle or in really great intersection between web free and social goods so my question is you all have a different project

287. 2:57:15

     working on different things and uh can you briefly describe your project what you are working on and your primary Mission related to web free so maybe Andrew you can start yeah thank you um so at vales Co what we're building is a way for Brands media publishers and nonprofits to form coalitions and launch Collective action campaigns for customers towards impact goals um and so the way we think about what we're doing is really rein inventing digital advertising into a

288. 2:57:46

     participatory experience for the end user um and we use web 3 for gamification uh and for impact tracking so we can kind of visualize at scale the impact that's happening through the platform well thank you really interesting and how about you Stephen great my name is Stephen ha I work at consensus I think I've just loosened my earpiece well great my name is Stephen haft I work at consensus uh consensus as you may know was founded by Joe Luben who is also the co-founder of ethereum

289. 2:58:19

     we had a uh deep involvement in uh an event uh that took place in the September of 2022 called the merge the transition from proof of work to proof of stake uh I've been tracking the ESG space at consensus for now five and a half years representing us at the UN and it seemed to me that the day after my my focus was on the day after the transition now that we go from being a brown Tech proof of work to a Green Tech proof of stake like

290. 2:58:52

     near um uh now that we catch up to near in this space let's say um what are our opportunities as a Green Tech to um move the entire uh Art and Science of climate mitigation forward with ethereum as a a central figure we not something we could do as a brown Tech yes but we the opportunity to pull together a broad Consortium including near including cell and a and filecoin and polygon and a group of other partners Microsoft uh uh

291. 2:59:28

     gold standard which is a World Wildlife uh fund Creation in the climate space the UN climate agency that administers the Paris Accords we pulled everybody together in a Consortium to figure out how do we look back seven years at at the carbon emissions the carbon footprint socalled of ethereum which is somewhere in the area of 30 million metric tons which for references you know azerbajan 10 million people in the Baku oil fields it's pretty ugly um and

292. 3:00:01

     how do we how do we uh uh give back to the planet what we took and our goal is over the next few years to give back more than ethereum uh took from the planet in that proof of work period I I agree on that and I have like a specific question for you related to that later so I'll get back to you really soon but what about you Joel what are you working on yeah yeah I work for a startup in

293. 3:00:27

     Switzerland we are building web three solutions for the some 4,000 nonprofits involved in delivering assistance all around the world to climate emergencies forc migration uh extreme poverty Etc the the sad reality is that only about 12% of those nonprofits are digitally mature meaning they use technology effectively and so we want to level them up um and uh you know bring also transparency to the entire value chain um from donor to to recipient and I'm

294. 3:00:58

     happy to say today we're we're just about to launch a big project with a a team at the United Nations called Unit life they're focused on tackling chronic malnutrition and with near we're we're going to track U you know millions of dollars uh going to small NOS around the world to to to treat malnutrition and we're going to track it just like a DHL package um from the moment it's fundraised to the moment it's delivered

295. 3:01:21

     and all of the metadata that will be you know be attached along the way yeah oh that's super interesting well thank you I get back to you as well all of you but I have a question for you stepen first so you were mentioning the merge obviously proof of stake and of course the carbon footprint uh situation we have I would say uh so my question is simple but hard as the same time let's

296. 3:01:44

     say so who is the ethereum climate platform and the project basically you are working on building on the progress so who do we improve let's say the carbon footprint of our industry is not as good so who do we build on this progress and what is the strategy the etherum climate platform is using to further mitigate I would say the environmental impact of whip free well we've put a lot of thought

297. 3:02:11

     into that we um we have uh as I say this pretty esteemed group of companies mainly evm companies that uh have come together to do this and talking among ourselves what we thought we would try to do was to create a sort of best of web 3 platform and we put our best Architects on a platform that let's say take take a few examples from some of our partners uh filecoin well uh what is a carbon credit a carbon credit is a digital asset that stores data well filecoin is the data storage

298. 3:02:53

     uh the best the best data storage solution we have in our in our industry um to uh to Joel's Point uh we are looking to engage communities in environmental uh responsibility in let's say the global South we're going to be working quite a lot in the southern hem spere uh Latin America and Africa and in engaging communities well not everybody in the community has a metamask wallet um uh and but everybody has a cell phone yes

299. 3:03:28

     cell which is built on mobile phones is by far the best solution we could possibly bring to those communities to create the feedback loop in terms of Environmental Management uh a uh we're putting together a fund that'll have a fairly substantial treasury well treasury management is a an area in which a excels so as you look across that group of Partners you will see probably all of us in the room had we been The Architects would probably have come up with in a way the same use

300. 3:04:10

     cases for our partners across the spect of the ethereum climate platform and that's what we've done we've built what I believe is a a best of web 3 platform to go after um the mitigation of in excess of the 30 million metric tons that uh ethereum is responsible for we contracted with the university uh of Cambridge who do the Bitcoin energy index to do the ethereum energy index we

301. 3:04:40

     financed their work in this space they came back to us with the 30 million metric ton number we make that our North Star and our goal is to mitigate not offset we're not buying cheap old climate offsets as some people in the web 3 climate space early on sort of thought was the solution we are looking to invest our money in projects on a go forward basis that over that in the future because investing in old offsets really accepts the climate as it is today it says back in 2018 somebody had

302. 3:05:19

     a project yes but that's baked into the shitty air we have today and the shitty climate so our goal is to use our money on future projects future mitigation efforts and because all of our funds come from companies who've made their money in Innovation is to try to create Market acceptance for very new and perhaps some might consider riskier approaches to uh climate mitigation that need uh funding to get Market acceptance

303. 3:05:52

     well that's a lot of work but really interesting uh but you were mentioning uh communities and I think we have something to discuss together Andrew so value Co right focus on a collaborative I would say approaches communities and I have a question for you which is who do you Leverage The capabilities of web free to incentivize sustainable ethical conception and positive behaviors yeah so values Cod the way we think about systems change um in contrast to a lot

304. 3:06:27

     of carbon initiatives which are focused on the supply side of the equation which is how do we you know uh help companies decarbonize their supply chain offset their carbon make their operations more efficient the way we think about the equation is the demand side which is how do we fundamentally change the way consumers live work travel connect with each other um and the reality is the world is ruled by habit and the ability to use web 3 to

305. 3:06:59

     create these rewards ecosystems in rewards activations for a good kind of have the ability to put out these breadcrumbs to allow people to build momentum in their own lives towards habits and new directions um which is really what we need in the world and um the way our team kind of thinks about this stuff is we're actually um you know Dows are a brand new storytelling container that really removes the ceiling off of what a company can Inspire its customers towards moving

306. 3:07:31

     away from just the kind of loyalty points which in my opinion web 3 doesn't make that much sexier than a traditional loyalty point system um but really prompting the story of building parallel societies that make the current Society Obsolete and so we leverage web 3 in all sorts of ways around gameification obviously nfts have the ability to kind of visualize impact that's happening within action campaigns that we're

307. 3:07:58

     launching back to the user both the impact the individual user is having within the campaign but also the collective impact that happens within these campaigns and just to kind of ground what I'm saying into an actual example we work with a big surfing company called starboard they leverage our platform to launch a rewards activation where their customers cleaned up 770,000 pounds of plastic from the

308. 3:08:21

     ocean planted 14,000 mango trees the entire campaign led to 35,000 tons of carbon being offset um and the kind of reward mechanisms are kind of nfts and some web 3 gameification um but it's also just focusing on what do people actually care about so not that many people at the moment care that much about nfts even in this web three bubble um so campaigns are F that campaign specifically was discounts on surfboards tickets to surfing events meet and greets with celebrity Surfers um so it's

309. 3:08:54

     really all about meeting people where they're at giving the right incentives for the right behavior and slowly over time that will snowball into an entirely new society and that's what we believe in well a lot of work for you as well I guess but so really interesting thank you which did I have a question for you as well so um I am a noob in humanitarian I know nothing and I'll be

310. 3:09:17

     honest from this kind of point of view I would say hey why do we need web free there you know and wow exactly right so I think that basically what are the advantage of using decentralization in what in humanitarian AIDS and uh what does that change the relationship between basically the donors to the intermediaries to the beneficiaries right mhm yeah well the short answer not surprisingly is trust um I've been working in humanitarian aid for the better part of 20 years I went all over

311. 3:09:53

     the world to Iraq Afghanistan darur everywhere in Haiti and whenever I was pitching a project to uh the US government or European union or my own grandmother the constant question back to me was always how do we know that the money is going to reach the people who need it the most yes that's the question it's a valid question but it's 23 we have tools to solve for that and so at

312. 3:10:16

     adonic that's one of the huge questions we want to solve with web 3 um and there's the flip side of that coin is that we want to reward those nonprofits that are highly effective and by putting transparency on that value chain a good example is it's manifestly more expensive more challenging more risky to educate a girl in Afghanistan than it is in Kenya and so the market should reward those risks those Nos and those agencies that are doing doing good work in that space they should recruit a better

313. 3:10:45

     reward than those working for example in Kenya and that will direct capital flows to the global challenges that needed the most so right so Orly if I can I would love to amplify uh on something that Joel just said that it comes down to trust with the world's most unlikely example that I found myself talking about with Michael Casey from coin desk at near here yesterday the most unlikely and terrific example of web 3 and trust

314. 3:11:15

     is Sam bankman freed how no no no in a very interesting way the we all remember the banking crisis that took place with Wells Fargo Bank andely people lost their homes uh it affected uh Millions uh across the world this banking crisis of which WAMU and Wells Fargo and some of were the were were the principal architects of these crimes in early 2023 the head of retail sales at the

315. 3:11:50

     Wells Fargo bank went to prison s years after this crisis now let's look at Sam bankman freed yes Sam bankman freed was convicted exactly 12 months to the day from the coindesk story that broke the Sam Brank bankman freed Scandal what does that tell us it tells us that the trusted distributed ledgering system was so good that that that by comparison to the smoking mirrors that the banking industry could put up to protect itself there was no way out all the facts were

316. 3:12:29

     immutable in convicting freed so I think in a strange way we need to hold up this success of 12 months from the day this broke eight months from the day he was indicted he was convicted that's how trusted this ledgering system can be on a go forward basis that's interesting actually this is really it's an odd turning of things around but it's true yeah no I I I agree and I think this is something uh we

317. 3:13:00

     share in this in this industry right we want to be sure that we use decentralization for trusts and can I say transparency as well exactly there will always be bad actors but it's pretty transparent in web yeah and it's actually linked to my questions you have Ed that already but I have a last question for all of you before we wrap up uh this really great panel which is so we talked about your

318. 3:13:25

     own project right uh my question is much more on the micro level so with all the perspective in mind with all what we discuss now how do you all envision web free playing a transformative role in reshaping all Global priorities Andrew I see you want to start yeah I mean there's uh two aspects of it there's the actual technology itself which there's been plenty of talks on the stage around BOS and

319. 3:13:55

     decentralization and all the kind of you know things that are repeated at every crypto conference um but I think what's more important is really a cultural shift um we at Value coope believe in this concept of emergence strategy which is essentially instead of a centralized entity making a plan and saying we're going to achieve this plan you create fertile soil for thousands of micro

320. 3:14:22

     experiments to happen and the best experiments and outcomes rise to the top um and so where I'm hopeful about web 3 um in my very humble opinion is providing kind of a parallel Vision um to what some certain uh centralized planners in the world like w wef think that that they can just tell us where we're going and I don't agree with their vision of the future and I think that there's better uh possibilities of how we can shape the future in a way that's more Grassroots up and more empowering

321. 3:14:55

     individuals um and I think that web 3 as a conceptual framework beyond the technology kind of provides the um the hook that can serve as that cultural shift um to really change things to where in my opinion we need to go yeah really interesting another opinion maybe do you want to go to well I'm curious just like in the audience how many people here are building web three solutions specifically for the global south or or for least developed countries or how about anyone know anyone who's doing that okay three four

322. 3:15:30

     hands I me to me this represents a huge opportunity the the median age of Africa is 19 years old the median age of North America and Europe is 41 and 44 respectively the birth rate of Africa is four times Europe North America so our future customers they're not here they're they're in Africa and I think there's a huge there's a huge uh Market there there's a huge opportunity there

323. 3:15:54

     plus just like Kenya and many other African countries went from no phones you know there was no landlines to to you know mobile phones and smart devices uh there's no legac there there's very few Legacy systems to compete with in these in these countries and so I think there's a huge opportunity there and I I really hope that we're able to direct some attention in that area because the type of tools that we need to do our job need to work at The Last Mile they can't be just for uh English-speaking people

324. 3:16:18

     on 5G they need to have solutions that going to work in the you know the Savannah of Africa and elsewhere in the world so that's my big hope and I hope that you know these kinds of conferences are are a place that we can sort of plant those seeds for 10 years from now five years from now two you know two months you yeah and what about you Stephen those of us in this room all of us uh H are here because we've decided

325. 3:16:42

     Ed to join up with the creation of a trust layer for the planet trust as we all learned as children has to be earned yeah uh I think we have you know you go back to 2015 2015 two things happened ethereum was created and the Paris Accords were signed by 195 countries creating the uh the uh global address to the climate crisis we find ourselves in the two had a great deal of commonality if you read the Paris agreement the Paris agreement throughout the agreement

326. 3:17:18

     uses the word transparent throughout the agreement talks about the end to financial duplicity as does the creation of ethereum the Paris agreement talks about redistributing power to the periphery from those in the center for decision making so does the creation of ethereum both talk about a radical transformation of business industry and Society the brown nature unfortunately of the proof of work

327. 3:17:51

     scheme was such that the alignment that was created in 2015 was broken the trust was broken what we all of us and near is a socially engaged brilliant proof of stake based uh system and now ethereum who've caught up have the opportunity to regain that alignment and that's what we see as our opportunity to both in this community and on behalf of the community yeah right so if I had to resume all of your let's say all of our

328. 3:18:34

     discussion today I think there is one word I've heard from literally everyone here it's basically trust right we work here in web free to bring trust and be sure that what we do has really positive impact in society independently of what we are working on humanitarian heads to be sure that the trust is there where anytime within found for you that would be for all the car F PR being sure that everything is going in the right direction for all the climate challenging we have right now and for

329. 3:19:05

     you as well to be sure we are working with the right communities and be sure that we have a trust around there and can I raum that way mhm trust and transparency for everyone that to we could yeah I I think that's one component I mean one one thing I just want to close with is like impact is this kind of like to the side thing that definitely like with us when we have conversations like on my fundraising

330. 3:19:30

     tours or like a lot of stuff just get lumped into oh they're just like an impact thing M but really the underlying philosophy of web 3 is really this cultural shift that you know like impact and cultural change happens through culture pop culture through celebrities through things that people are actually paying attention to and so one of my like uh I guess calls to action for the room is like we need more consumer

331. 3:20:01

     adapts we need more things that normal people can interact with and connect with each other with and connect with culture through and and a lot of the talks that I see on web 3 stages are just layer one layer 2 ZK this like all these technologies that nobody in the real world cares about at all and there's not that much conversations on this is the consumer app that I'm building that's going to help to change culture and so that's something that I I

332. 3:20:33

     think is missing in the conversation around impact where it's not just about impact it's culture change yeah so more use cases for Mass adoption if I can resume that in a in a sentence but uh I think we are wrapping up our panel today so Andrew Vos thank you so much Steven ethereum climate platform and Joel with my French accent from adonic thank you so much for being here with me today and

333. 3:20:58

     sharing your Insight and thank you to a great uh audience today as well for hearing a lot of really nice youth amazing audience fast audience thank you thank you thank you very much Ori and the panelist it's always great to hear about web 3 being a Force for good so we now would like to welcome back to the stage for the second time today Ilia Palin with his new friend and colleague for today's uh chat will be from Anchorage

334. 3:21:51

     digital and that's Diogo Monica thank you you're not bored with me yet uh hello everyone again I'm here with Diego I'm really excited about it Diego has joined us at near Foundation conso as a chairperson uh and I'm really excited about this but uh before we dive into that let's um you know let's get a Diogo to introduce himself and how did you get to crypto what has been you know some of the interesting story of kind of how you started Anchorage and you know what

335. 3:22:35

     Anchorage is now well uh hi everyone uh great to meet you U thank you for welcoming welcoming me to the near ecosystem and Community it's been uh pretty fun um even though kind of crazy um past month and a half two months um it's also I love the description how I was introduced which a friend and colleague I love that uh that's how I should be introduced every single time okay so for those of you that don't know me I'm actually pretty odd duck in crypto I work on the dark side of crypto

336. 3:23:01

     which is CI um my name is Yoga Monica I'm the founder of a company called Anchorage digital Anchorage digital is as boring as crypto companies can come in fact we have a pretty cool claim which is we are the first in still only federally Chartered Bank in us that means that Anchorage actually has I don't know that that's cool but I think so so it's the same Charter as JPY Morgan Chase so if JY Morgan Chase is a bank they're banked because they have a charter by the OCC which is the oldest um bank regulator in the United States

337. 3:23:33

     Office of the control of the currency and we have the exact same Charter so we're a bank like CH Morgan Chase is a bank which is pretty exciting for crypto because we're the first ones to do and it legitimizes crypto and it really brought crypto into the banking system we custody crypto Assets in a bank inside of traditional Finance that's really cool it's also extremely painful as you'd imagine because compliance is Bank compliance um the the

338. 3:23:57

     the interesting thing about how in digital was was started is that my intent from the beginning with Michael founder Nathan was never to really create a bank per se our goal was as two security Engineers that we were um really building a solution to a problem that we had at the time and the problem that was at the time was that all these crypto funds and Venture funds were being created because of the Ico boom

339. 3:24:21

     they were investing in these weird digital assets that were held in self- custody based on private Keys which as you know are glorified passwords and they were losing them so the the way that Anchorage got started actually was was a fund in 2017 that came to me because it had lost the pass phrase to to a $1.5 million Bitcoin wallet and they offered me 20% if I could break into it and that's how I got introduced to the business you know what a great business model people give you money and you get to keep 20% that's not there's

340. 3:24:53

     no blockchain that keeps 20% fee at least that I know of um so that that was that's how the business actually got started and the the front part of that of course my background is a little bit different in that and how I got there we can talk about it if it's interesting uh but that's how Anchorage actually got started was technical security two security Engineers coming together to really store private Keys yeah and I think that's extremely important as you said to legitimize

341. 3:25:17

     crypto to bring it to people who either not planning to do self custody or don't know how to do it or you know have a lot of money which requires a way higher kind of um bar for compliance and control over the system right because I mean it's totally normal to store someone of money on your phone with like normal access but you definitely don't want to do that with millions of dollars

342. 3:25:40

     and especially with billions that's right and and the interesting thing is that I I also see this in your path to crypto and the the AI papers and things like that was actually pretty fascinating but there's this massive amount of luck um of just being in the right place at the right time so it's kind of fascinating because 15 years ago I was working on something that was absolutely useless at the time just absolutely useless I was doing a PhD in

343. 3:26:06

     something called distributed systems that nobody cared about and I was publishing papers on something that I called computational resource tests and that now we call the way better marketing term proof of work and so marketing matters deeply number one number two I was working on um hash cash doing civil protection I was doing distributed systems and just doing Security in in the the space and it was just absolutely an academic Pursuit and it's kind of absolutely fascinating to

344. 3:26:36

     Think Through reading a paper reading practical bantine full tolerance by Miguel kashr or reading paos or reading some of the salal Byzantine General papers or all of these in just 15 years ago 17 years ago they were just ideas pretty much intellectual discussions between PhD students and professors in universities trying to get publ published in conferences that nobody has ever heard of um well now they probably have because all the VCS are just trolling the pages of all the

345. 3:27:07

     Publishers of all these conferences in both Ai and uh and crypto conferences but you know eurocrypt how many people had heard about eurocrypt um DSN how many people had heard about DSN nobody cared about these conferences and they were the conferences of distributed systems so I was just lucky enough to had been interested from security from a very early age um and security really was my passion well when I was 12 or or

346. 3:27:31

     13 hacking into my friends computers was my passion but that's what led to the passion of security of course eventually and that's what got me on that path is kind of fascinating you can describe Anchorage as many different things sure we're a crypto company yeah you can describe us as a crypto company but you can also easily describe us as a security infrastructure company you can also easily describe us as a bank I personally like to describe us as a tech

347. 3:27:54

     company that owns a bank not as a bank that does Tech because those two things are very different as you as you might expect um even though we do have enough compliance people to call ourselves a real Bank um so you know you you have that uh as as a stat for you um I'm sorry for that no it's it's it's necessary and it's actually fascinating one of the things that I found the most fascinating has been well there's many things here but I

348. 3:28:18

     I'm both an American citizen because I was born in the US but I'm actually Portuguese too uh I grew up in Portugal so and I just moved back to Lisbon about six weeks ago so you know my life is is back and forth but but when things get hard in Portugal I say I'm American and when get get cheating in the US I say I'm Portuguese so I'm always like switching hats and like using different

349. 3:28:35

     shirts to to claim that both countries are amazing every time in the US somebody complains about IDs and like how the system is bureaucratic can you need papers I talk about our citizens card and digital signatures and then people there talk about like starting a company and then um or people here start talk about starting a company and I complain about the bureaucracy and I complain about all the you know things that Portuguese people just force you to do to do anything um anyway it's it's

350. 3:28:59

     it's pretty funny but one of the things that has been the most fascinating for me as an American citizen has been interacting with not just The Regulators but the the government apparatus going to the White House meeting Senators seeing how the sausage gets made is kind of scary um seeing the lobbying participating in the lobbying getting lobbyists actually being part of the system and seeing how things actually evolve is is is kind of scary concerning

351. 3:29:25

     and as a citizen you just just look at it and it's like okay I thought this was a rumor uh I thought the ways the way thing work the things actually work just brought us to the chaos but yeah yeah yeah and or or something that people people described as a conspiracy theory that this is actually how things were and then you get there and just oh no it uh it actually works this way okay cool

352. 3:29:47

     so now you're in Lisbon that's pretty much your conclusion of that after you interacted with all the US government well yeah there are downsides on both sides um but but but the story of Anchorage also is um is kind of interesting because it was started in San Francisco in my living room and pre- pandemic we were actually 70 something people and then we wake up in a world post pandemic and the West Coast which

353. 3:30:11

     was San Francisco specifically was 95% of Anchorage employees not Bay Area San Francisco was 95% of Anchorage employees and we've never really been Pro remote um I've always thought that I wasn't a good enough manager to really hire and manage a remote team so you know we have this founder philosophy that just remote was not something we were interested in and at the time we we were able to implement it because it was pre pandemic the pandemic hits and all of a sudden

354. 3:30:35

     what happens is what happened to all of you but we wake up in a world where we had over 300 people and the large majority of them were not not just San Francisco not Bay Area at all so we go from 95% San Francisco to less than 20% Bay Area and Portugal actually now has almost half of our engineering so we have almost 100 people in Portugal and so obviously I have Affinity to the country I I studied in these universities this is where I did my my

355. 3:31:00

     bachelor my masters my PhD I had the connectivity I had the teachers I knew I could actually get there's not that many Portuguese unicorns so you can get the marketing going to hire good good engineers and good people and we did that successfully and so we ended up with almost 100 people in Portugal which then brings me back to Portugal because obviously the time zone it's not like

356. 3:31:15

     everybody's in the US and I'm here um and and I think you've done similar things right you found pockets of talent yeah I mean we we went from I don't know we had 20 something people and one actually uh Jake here uh was remote and then we went yeah like everybody remote kind of growing and then also separating and decentralizing and becoming more and more of a collective that's Global that has people everywhere that has hubs everywhere and yeah and now it's actually this time zone indeed is kind

357. 3:31:47

     of the middle ground between Asia and America and you can actually cover it very well and so yeah I think that that has been also like an interesting question yeah like if you are in Asia or in us like you actually are kind of missing out on part of this and versus here you have like a wide range as well so I'm actually curious because we we we sell to ins so our clients are Visa Sovereign wealth funds big Banks every single Venture fund you've ever heard of is a client so we

358. 3:32:18

     have tens of billions of dollars on the platform and we do staking custody buy and sell that those are our services those are our clients we do not touch retail we do not touch retail we don't do retail we don't want to do retail so we we don't we don't touch it um and that's you know part of the secret of actually having a bank that is a bank is because we were institutional only so that helps because from a regulatory perspective the target is not on you uh

359. 3:32:41

     there's no poor retail ever being hurt because we just don't serve them and the institutions are sophisticated so if they do something wrong and invest in a bad asset and they lose all their funds nobody's going to be sad about you know some poor institution that invested their money um still made fees but but lost their funds so it's it's a very different thing but but for foundations I've always kept myself credibly neutral from an asset perspective so this is actually the first uh Foundation that I'm joining um and and at this point

360. 3:33:06

     we're big enough for me not to be close to the decision- making on asset support for this to actually be something that I can do uh credibly but I've always wondered whether for protocols and for foundations it is an advantage to actually be remote and distributed because the community building is such a big portion of it that being in the pockets and actually being close that is must be a massive

361. 3:33:31

     Advantage versus I don't know Visa a protocol that is just like 95% San Francisco is that is that the case yeah I think it's the case and it's also part it's part of philosophy and it's part of how you build team it's part of people also want to meet somebody who works kind of in a core team or a close to core team and H having people everywhere that are core people allow us to also have this interactions more often and

362. 3:33:54

     then I think like we've seen this for kind of more local blockchain that kind of launched for a specific country um like that really hard for them to break out of that mode right because it becomes kind of self profilling and blockchains are at the core Global phenomena it's at the core a place to unite everyone to build this you know composable platforms bring everybody together create open markets that are Global in first place and so whenever you target something local either by the

363. 3:34:25

     team location or by kind of just your marketing and and Market positioning you are kind of actually you know Crossing yourself out from this whole Global phenomena that blockchain is and I think that is really important piece and and uh you know at the same like the philosophy of you know open web the one we are really uh kind of pushing for is really around you know allowing everyone in allowing kind of people to participate to contribute doesn't matter

364. 3:34:54

     where you are doesn't matter I I love to say you know if you're an account on chain it doesn't matter if you're a cat right um like you could be participating in exactly the same terms and so uh like I think like opening that up is important and geog then doesn't matter time zones do sadly that's probably I wish there was no time zones and we can all live in the same time and maybe we can start by

365. 3:35:20

     getting rid of daylight savings uh slow progress yeah ah now there there you go this is my uh beginning of my political campaign here for prime minister of for un for un I think or or un directly actually I have a I have another question for you sorry I know you were supposed to be interviewing me but um we had dinner last night and I had this one I've been I've been this is a spicy take and I've been thinking

366. 3:35:44

     about this for a while and I just love your opinion and since we're chatting with a great group of people might as well I think through this uh but this is a spicy take so so so take me uh take take me here U for for a minute give me a break here but I have this idea that one of the reasons why lots of protocols have failed in our space and why we've had maybe not enough engagement from both community and Founders has been

367. 3:36:08

     because the for space that believes deeply in incentive alignment we've always built these protocols with massive misalignment of incentives for the founder specifically and what I mean by that is I think this space will not work as successful as it could until New protocols that are created that are based on any kind of token or any kind of incentive have token lockups investing that is actually equal or similar to any other founder that is creating a company and raising Equity if

368. 3:36:40

     if I'm a Founder raising dollars we've raised almost $500 $500 million $500 would be also pretty impressive $500 million and there's no liquidity there's no liquidity for 7 to 10 years that's the average for an equity company the founders stay the workers stay everybody stays so how is it possible to really build a fundamentally successful protocol if you get liquidity on year

369. 3:37:03

     one or year two or year three it's not just that the founders lose interest necessarily is that they're not really incentivized to stay in a lot of people I've seen you know became fabulously wealthy and then you also have the negative component that I actually saw Square post IPO go through which is once the stock and your price and your net worth is public you're looking at it every day and your loss aversion means that days that is up you don't feel anything you feel normal but days that

370. 3:37:27

     it's down you feel really bad um and so that loss A verion of like feeling two lost 2x then the gains actually is like very corrosive and crypto this happens but I I legitimately think until token Founders specifically but also employ employes have investing schedule that is actually closer to an equity in terms of timeline say 7 years I I don't think we're going to get passed through the really really hard stuff of product building and like go to market I would love your hear your opinion on this yeah

371. 3:37:53

     I think there's a lot of Truth around that the the kind of fast liquidity is corrosive not just for the team but also for the backers who participate because it's also like now they looking at it as well and like now they're like now it's a trade for them not just backing and kind of you know building for the future so I think this has been a probably a big negative side of the space we

372. 3:38:18

     actually uh for for our team uh kind of everyone have set up first of all the lockup started at mainnet so there was motivation for everyone to to actually launch main net uh so even though like the kind of the the normal vesting right like employee vesting but um or contributor vesting but the lockup started from this and then uh and then it was pretty much four year from mayet so it actually didn't end yet uh and it was like kind of align with like the

373. 3:38:51

     longest backers as well so um and so I definitely like we've been trying to maximize that pretty much as much as possible I do think that like for projects that are launching now if they have an ability to do that and kind of uh I think the problem is and like I think this is General problem with crypto has been is that like because of the market dynamics it's the same as like in 21 there was like people were shooting money from the guns right like instead of t-shirt it was like you know 500k Grand in Portugal I think we call

374. 3:39:23

     it the Bazooka yeah uh and so like that kind of created this whole slice of you know people who believe this is normal right and so the same was like crypto incentives and like crypto VCS as well there's a whole slice of people who think this is normal like the the only only thing that is like worth investing is in the token that will that will be liquid for them in you know a year like

375. 3:39:49

     they actually put Provisions into the in like some of the uh contract so I think the the challenge right now is like we kind of need to change the market dynamics in general such that Founders are able to like create a equal opportunity for both them and backers to have kind of a more aligned like building out a real future uh that value and I think like like I'm not sure how we can actually get there at at the current stage right I think that's that's really the challenges like the

376. 3:40:19

     market adjustments is happening I think like the valuation adjusting but that structures are still uh more shortterm than they should be but in general I totally agree I think the biggest kind of the core team continued pushing together continue working is the most important and you know we have like some people who transition out but a lot of people are still in the ecosystem working across different hubs and that's

377. 3:40:42

     I think one of the benefits is compared to a company when somebody transitions off they go and you know do something else and the ecosystem there's a lot of things to do and you can actually go and do something in the ecosystem continue growing it in a different capacity right maybe you don't like the role you were in you maybe want to try something else so you have this opportunity to continue growing the ecosystem but not maybe in directly like the employee relationship that you started with and I think that

378. 3:41:08

     is being actually beneficial for continue growing in our ecosystem okay that's interesting well at least for any companies that we fund we can always think about things like that and aligning the incentives yeah I think yeah I mean as we work with Founders and I'm really excited kind of within this context you know working with Founders helping them set up a structure that maximize kind of the their success you know in building their Vision right at the end like that's kind of that's why

379. 3:41:37

     you start like if you if you're for financial outcome there's better you know for many of the smart Founders there's better ways to have a short-term Financial outcome including investment actually uh for for time uh spent on building this for sweats build on building this and so like you know you're starting the company because you want to bring this Vision together and so I think like structuring it in such a

380. 3:42:02

     way where you as a Founder are able to continue pushing forward there's I mean there's ways to like the benefit is the tokens is information and the the market is just as a piece of information right and so you can structure the token in a way that can be you know useful for your you know incentive structures for decentralizing the ecosystem for unborn new people while the incentive part for

381. 3:42:28

     the team Etc can be structured as well like like I mean it's just code right you can write the code that that's a benefit compared to equity Equity is like it's kind of predefined right and has a like yes I mean you actually can you know sit down with lawyers and write 500 pages of documents but then you need to also execute it it's like super complicated explain to everyone here you can just write a smart contract that exactly outlines the motivations that you want right you can maximize for

382. 3:42:52

     example unlock based on kpis right it can be that you know that we actually align the whole ecosystem to achieve some specific goal and now it's actually a kind of positive sum game for everyone to push toward that right and in a way that's what kind of Bitcoin started with like it says you know everybody's incentivized to continue building this chain it's just like that was a very simple kpi let's build the longest chain

383. 3:43:15

     and hopefully it's going to be useful but you can have a lot more complex things now we have oracles that can provide you with information you can have an AI Oracle that actually analyzing potentially information about the projects that you're building that's providing this context back into your token to unlock or provide you know additional emissions based on that right so like you can design things that are kind of more novel and I think that is that a benefit of this technology that

384. 3:43:41

     we have is like we have such a programmability that we never had before I I I saw a lot of the companies in the ecosystem and I've been kinding meeting a lot of these CEOs and these Founders and something that has uh struck me as interesting that I haven't seen yet is I've seen a lot of applications of zero knowledge proofs within our own space so you know on the rollups and trying to make things more efficient and effective which makes a ton of sense uh because we

385. 3:44:02

     want lower fees we want higher throughput we want just better ways and just stronger primitive to to achieve things that we couldn't before I haven't actually seen great zero knowledge proof applications that are Bitcoin Bitcoin based um for things that I would have thought are obvious and are kind of needed I don't know um there's a cool paper by Bonet um which um you you take

386. 3:44:27

     a picture now that the Sony cameras actually have yeah has a cryptographic key in them yeah they have a cryptographic key and then they sign every picture that comes from a camera so you know if a picture actually comes from a war zone or if it was generated by Dolly you have no idea um and so it actually signs the picture but then the problem is you're a media outlet and you either put the full picture you know 50 whatever megabytes of picture because

387. 3:44:51

     that's the original picture that got they got signed was the raw format of the picture and so how can we crop it how can we reduce it in size and so there's these cool um ways to prove in zero knowledge that a subset of a picture or a sub verion of the picture actually sign up to the original picture that came from the camera so cool like that that we can actually know if pictures coming from um from Gaza are

388. 3:45:14

     actually from Gaza or from Israel actually from Israel like we don't know what the source of these things are and it's very important for us to have great information and so that that's an interesting use case in application and then obviously like the use of something like near in which is very cheap for me to actually do these commitments and have somebody like Sony or Nikon or

389. 3:45:30

     whatever participate seems like a very obvious use case why have I have I not seen not this specific use case because I'm likely missing something trivial that does make it work but just zero use cases that are just obviously like great for Humanity and Society kind of like implemented right now I think I mean the reality is like this technology just started to scale to something that's like reasonably like powerful right like imagine I mean what you just described

390. 3:45:53

     the use case of um converted 50 megabyte image down to let's say I don't know 300 kilobytes right and usually it's done by you know set of filters and maybe potentially some like neuron Network as well now and 50 megabytes is actually a lot of data that the current zero knowledge circuits probably cannot handle right and especially the zero knowledge circuits of last year could

391. 3:46:17

     not handle at all so we actually just getting to a stage where it's possible to start pushing this much data or this much compute right so for example for zml I think there's heon project actually going to present an example of that like zkl right now the limitation is on how much like you know usually all the ne networks have layers and so like every layer you can prove it indiv ually

392. 3:46:39

     and then compress all the proofs of each layer so it doesn't matter how many layers it has but the amount of parameters each layer outputs right The Matrix that outputs you need to prove that and you need to commit on that and that that is actually expensive and so right now I think it's like 10 million parameters is the max you can have right which is 10 meaby or like um kind of 40 megabytes for example right so like we just getting to that stage where this is

393. 3:47:03

     the size that's possible but I think this use case is extremely important and also like it wasn't really well understood that we need this prior to some of the recent events and like kind of just more generative AI Resurgence I think that is kind of in general a Content um tracking content understanding reputation of the entities publishing will become extremely important and having like this supply

394. 3:47:28

     chain of data and Z knowledge proofs with it will become extremely important uh component of that but like more of this use case will be coming as this technology scales and like like not just scales but also becomes more more effic effective and efficient there's Hardware accelerators that also been built so like I think we just getting to see it coming but it's like it was not like I mentioned and uh with Jordy like in 19

395. 3:47:52

     we actually banned words or knowledge because it didn't like you could use it for everything but it didn't work right and so now it's actually like we're investing in it you know partnering across the ecosystem I think we'll see a lot more exciting stuff for this awesome well if somebody wants to build a company like that I know somebody at own me so I don't know there might be some funding for you yeah I think we just ran out of time indeed we did all right well

396. 3:48:16

     thank you hopefully you met uh Doo and uh yeah exciting to be here thank you doo thank you so much Ilia and doo for that session I think this is going to be one of the most exciting moments now uh for this afternoon session if you were to see backstage it is like a party there's some really really excited hackers that are going to be coming up and presenting uh with a range of Judges as well so with that in mind uh we're just going to have a couple of minutes to just set up the stage and get the

397. 3:48:56

     transitions done please do hang around some very excited people that are going to be coming on stage soon and for the afternoon session it'll be moderated by Maria yosa so thank you very much and see you shortly n

398. 3:50:08

     a n n

399. 3:51:38

     n n a

400. 3:53:07

     n a

401. 3:54:50

     All I Want I Want You Keep Me wai all I want all I want

402. 3:56:07

     yeah he hi

403. 3:57:13

     thank you so much these people want to win the heckadon this is why they're applauding so hard my name is Maria I'm with near death Hub and I do heck dances and including this one uh I think we did a pretty good job with 800 registrations almost 800 and thousands of submissions so devhub team and me we spent the last night selecting 11 most interesting pitches so today at the pitching competition we will present you top 11

404. 3:57:48

     and we will select one of the winners of this heckadon the winner of the nomination pitch competition right so the rest of the winners we will announce online on November 17th so don't get too excited this won't be the winner of this second this just one of the winners still really great so let me introduce the judges of the pishing competition please meet Laura from near Horizon please meet Eric from pagot ol

405. 3:58:16

     from sweat coin sweat economy sorry Alex from Aurora and L from mint base so this is how it's going to work um they call me Maria the timer because during the pitch competition when the team goes over 3 minutes I just cut them I just cut them off so they only have 3 minutes to pick spech and the judges will have 3 minutes to answer the questions so probably two questions for each team if we're lucky maybe three um and then after 11 pitches uh the judges

406. 3:58:49

     and me we will go backstage to select our favorite team so let's introduce our first team Obrigado hello everyone um we're orado and we're here to talk to you about uh enabling compute on the near ecosystem by utilizing idle computing power So currently uh the near ecosystem facilitates front end um decentralized front end using boss decentralized backend through smart contracts

407. 3:59:27

     executing transactions but we believe heavy comput should be should be part of the near ecosystem so what's the problem so this graph um shows the um market share Trends between Cloud providers and as you can see the market share trend is going up for the big providers meeting their their their market share is actually increasing and it's becoming less and less decentralized over time

408. 3:59:59

     and to compound that there are also data as you can see that um the data here shows that the demand is increasing more and more over time for cloud computing resources so this is orado so orado can execute heavy compute tasks including training large neural networks um genomic data processing and Drug Discovery and this is done through task nodes enabling their idle compute power to be used and this will be executed through the near blockchain and we believe with obado

409. 4:00:39

     heavy compute is near so our road map so during this hackathon we launched our smart contracts on the near test net and they're functional we launched our front end on boss and it's functional and our future road map we want to improve security and privacy for our users we want to improve the workflow and the user experience and we also want to support more languages currently supports python but we want to be able to reach as many different providers uh langu as possible so our team we met

410. 4:01:10

     just a few days ago at the hackathon and it's been amazing um we come from a variety of backgrounds including technical experience in the centralized cloud computing space so here's a quick demo so as you can see we have two worker nodes and we have a task submitter so the worker nodes are currently searching for new tasks that are added to the near blockchain and as you can see the tasks submitted submits their task with a bounty of 10 near the worker nodes are

411. 4:01:43

     now receiving this task they found it they're processing the transaction and just focus on the um the account balance of these worker nodes so the account balance has been added to um their account they've shared the Bounty equally for completing this task so this is what it looks like with two nodes we I'm sorry time's up thank you so muchado now don't hide behind me go to the center of the stage inage in case our judges have some questions so we

412. 4:02:26

     have a mic here there is a whole team to be I'm going to scream my question um can you talk a little bit more about about what your go to market strategy is who who would you Target first as like the end user of this application or this so um yeah it would be basically um any kind of research institutions or um uh think of somebody who who wants to to train large scale neural networks um um

413. 4:02:57

     microbiome research institutions DNA processing facilities and things like that so anybody who would use um traditional cloud and centralized Cloud could opt in as this um uh for this alternative is there any is there any verification of the results of the compute um do you do it multiple times or how does it working yes basically uh every job has um um an infinite amount of can be taken by any amount of nodes

414. 4:03:30

     and once results are submitted they are uploaded to ipfs or any kind of external storage and onchain data Stores Only the location of that result and the cash so at the moment of of the result submission the caches are compared and um at that moment if there is at least one different hash then the job goes into a challenged mode and then uh there could be a way of having a whitelisted or trusted nodes that are going to perform only uh like validator nodes

415. 4:03:56

     they're going to validate only those challenged jobs and in that case if the um challenged results matches this um so the reward or the Bounty is going to be distributed only to the notes which submitted the direct result after validated trusted result comes in are you going to be price competitive or what's going to be the you know your differentiation why would these institutions so of use you so we believe that depends on the Dynamics of of nodes joining the network um there's going to

416. 4:04:28

     be an alternative Market is going to dictate the price and it can easily happen that the price um to compute something on on aado is higher than on um on on the traditional nodes um but you will have always this kind of resistance and there could be Market could be dictating the low price so for for instance if there is um if there's a lot of idle compute gpus sitting at um at consumers houses they might just

417. 4:04:54

     decide to run one node and forget about it and get passive income that's going to We Believe lower the price of the compute thank you judges thank you team of regado thank you so let me introduce to the stage a team called proof of reputation welcome there you go this is your clicker so you can go front and back you can see your presentation here micophone the microphone okay welcome everyone I'm Alan I'm Mexican and I want

418. 4:05:35

     to talk to you about a very common problem problem that is faced on the regions around Latin America thinking this you are an small or medium business you have to pay your employees but by many of the factors that happen during the week maybe your uh your customer didn't pay you or maybe you got any other situation you don't have enough money to pay so this is what we are talking about and this is a problem that represent one of every three uh one of

419. 4:06:07

     every three fails in Mexico companies so uh we are right now presenting our project that is called proof of reputation we are a score and Loan protocol that allows you to request a loan based on your activity on chain in our research we discovered that almost all the businesses on Mexico are smbs and also that hundreds of thousands of people lives under banket on the Rion in latan our prototype is ready we work at 48 hours during this hackaton to develop an a smart contract that currently is

420. 4:06:47

     deployed on mainnet and can create an score for H some Quest that are already ready on near protocol and also we develop an ux and Ur interface that is deployed on both components we have regulatory advantages as it is a depth mechanism so there is no profit it and you can take this as a dep we have kyc and AML alignment as we can do Quest that that recognizes your proof of uh of personhood or your proof

421. 4:07:20

     of citizenship we also aims to have L to know bureaucracy in case that you ask for a loan on a bank on Latin America you can count the time that it takes for yet one we have a plan reach under banket regions partner with local empresarial organization a doubt about crypto payments and start seing the F loans our current status is that first we have a defined clear problem we have an score smart contract that is Deploy on mainnet

422. 4:07:53

     and we have a UI UI that is ready and you can test it on n.org next steps is complete loan liquidity pool Alpha Testing with OG's and look for extra use cases of a score on chain our team we are based in Mexico we know very well what this is about and we can invite any of you anytime you want to live what we're living alone can save the life of annb on latam who want to be part of

423. 4:08:24

     this muchas thank you so much any questions from the judges what's the motivation for a lender to be on this protocol okay we think about the interest rate that you can get for this loan protocol according to your score you can get a bigger or an smaller interest rate that can represent a higher apy than the average AP the average interest rate that you get from the bank you go to Mexico and you get

424. 4:08:55

     PID like 2% for your money so let's loan this for your region and you start more thank you if we don't have any ah one more question from Le are you using nfts and if so uh can you explain a bit a bit about it yeah we are using Soul bone tokens specifically so every time that you complete the quest you get an nftd that you can see on your wallet and you have a main nftd that represents your score and is updating accordingly to the activity that you are completing the

425. 4:09:30

     quests thank you so much to improve of reputation thank you very much thank you very much thank you and let's welcome our next team b4b for near social welcome on stage hi I'm Anna our project b4b influencer marketing protocol on near social after launch you abson near need tell about their project and attract new new users but we don't know how reach Target users on near community near native influencers and creators are the best way to amplify new

426. 4:10:22

     dabs that's why we create b4b influencer marketing protocol with b4b dabs can choose B best influencers based on where onchain statistic and made promotion collaboration with them creators can monetize their channels grow on chain portfolio and moreover creators have more motivation to active grow on near socials during near conon our team collect all onchain data from near social graph support at placement on near and AD verification using near

427. 4:11:08

     profile let's see how it work in influencer create account by connected wallet and verified ownership of his near social Channel also influencer put price for different ad placements Advertiser choose best influencer based on where on chain statistic from near social ground gra at make at booking for this he choose best at placement format date and send content to The influencer

428. 4:11:50

     Advertiser uh Advertiser make pay payment via B forb protocol smart contract on aora in usdc influencer receive add order if influencer like theorder order he accept it and after this on plan date he download content and make publishing on his near social Channel and send link to the advertiser Advertiser check what everything okay with at placement and approve what at done after this influencer received payment on his wallet from our smart contract in in us thec on aora

429. 4:12:39

     network let's bring 1 billion users to web three by collaborating with creators and influencers thank you Team B forb judges do we have any questions can you talk a little bit about what you think is your total addressable market like how big do you think this space is who are you going after are you planning to bring more people into near social is it sort of a recruitment or is it really more to

430. 4:13:07

     to sort of spur you know um the the work that's already happening with the people that are on your social yes we integrated a near social graph and it's possible to place in near social on and collaborate with different chers here and it's also uh possible on our platform to collaborate with other socials like we to socials Twitter Telegram and other with influencers there collaborate placed uh content and attract in the protocols new

431. 4:13:43

     users um when the advertiser creates the advertisement or schedules um is it public uh contract yeah yes when advertisers create new it it's a public in smart contract the all statistic store in band but the main payment information and other onchain statistics public on on Smart contract on aora can we use b4b to bring more users to near social yes it's possible of course uh to collaborate with other influencers from

432. 4:14:25

     telegram Twitter and other socials uh make a placement and bring to near social to and collaborate new users here so recommendation to New Foundation to start using the services of Bobb to bring more people to new thanks guys yeah thank you so much thank you judges thank you team fif forb can I please have my cook back let's welcome on stage the next team Paro I promise this is going to be

433. 4:14:58

     fun there you go you can see it here all right hello everyone I'm Olivia Smith and I'm part of Paro two weeks ago I was here in the exact same room and I was listening to elia's talk about the near and the POS and herbit integration a bit later me and my team attended e Lisbon where we build cheaper and we were like why not why not do a backtack heaphone and we felt like what can we do for near well we wanted to help bring the messes to near by building

434. 4:15:36

     baringo this is the yeah this is the one no it's a link this is not the one Okay click on it this one no it's a link in the picture click from here sorry for the hiccup they should the time is ticking no no the time is not ticking that's unfortunate let just which slide you need to switch from Mac OS to B just click on it okay present to you well either way doesn't matter you can

435. 4:16:28

     go to part. NGO and actually check out the UI and basically parting go is a game that you can play whenever you're with a party party of friends hackers or colleagues and you're about to go to an event um on parting go there's a lot of presets for for example a heaphone or a road trip with scenarios and you can select which friend you think is most likely to end up in a certain scenario so for example you go out on a club night and someone gets too drunk someone

436. 4:16:59

     loses his phone someone gets kicked out by the bouncer you can actually predict which friend will be in this scenario there is a point system to it but eventually the event log of this game gets thrown into an llm and makes a recap of the nights creating a beautiful memory so this is how we will bring near to the messes how are we getting parting go to the messes well through user

437. 4:17:25

     generated marketing campaigns on Tik Tok for example and so we will Market it as like a party drinking game so it will go viral right but under the hood it's it's actually an awareness game to make people aware of certain social behav uh recurring behaviors in certain social settings this will cause the next user Peak for an near the future for parting go well first of all we'll continue building it and fixing it because they

438. 4:17:56

     now fix the compiling error and we can actually make it functional so um we've got a lot of idas for par Tingo like uh brand that's preset so it actually marketing value is amazing uh we will integrate it with alphabet a prediction Market on herbit so there can be some financials involved and the best thing is we will connect this to the project we built at e Lisbon making it possible for us to record contributions and reward them with token or Equity allocation so everyone here

439. 4:18:27

     can become part of parting go and so on part of near thank you so much this was the team they're unfortunately already back home um check out party. NGO it's not an NGO but there's always a party thank you very much don't leave maybe the judges will have the questions I'm just looking at your demo and it's pretty slick uh mobile first yeah mobile only at the moment uh well if you want to reach the mess as we go for mobile um the UI was almost finished but we were struggling with a few few

440. 4:19:06

     things at extra day of building and this will actually be functional can you talk a little bit about your intended Revenue model uh yes so first of all it will be Brands and events like this event that can create presets um this is one way of getting Revenue but there can also be a creators Market that can get very creative with presets for Niche events and OCC a and then there yeah we don't want to do advertisements

441. 4:19:42

     we do want to have branded presets but we don't want to bother the users what parts of this are on the are on the near chain or interacting with near so this is the part that I forgot to say but normally it was in the demo um whenever you join a game you create a miner wallet and so it doesn't really showcase um the possibilities of near but it's a very easy way to onboard the messes and they will get curious and they have fomo to play the game they

442. 4:20:12

     will be on ear without even knowing it thank you so much thank you so let's invite to the stage our next team which is called B mutation and presenting a guy in the T-shirt legendary Pokémon I I mean who could be that okay there is a clicker so you could click to the right and use your microphone okay hi um I'm from dlet team and we have implemented BOS mutation proposal uh what problems does it

443. 4:20:57

     solve um boss component on a website they easy to for thanks boss but actually they are hard to be used why assume you would like to insert a button uh into the existing boss website like near social here is uh it this it is a dislike button I am the owner of the change but the website is owned by someone else so what should I do uh at first I have to implement the button no problem but then then I have to Fork a container containing the button

444. 4:21:42

     oops please okay then I have to Fork a container container a containing container with the button okay and then I have to Fork a container of container of container containing the button and this is up to the up to the top and I will end up in creating the full full Fork of the entire website but it goes even worse because this Fork does have no usage so I have to start some marketing

445. 4:22:20

     campaign to get usage from mop near to uh to the my fork and um it can be tricky because this original website is owned by the owner and why should he allow it he will maybe reject it so our solution is to apply this change on the Fly and change the website uh immediately in permissionless way uh this is how it works uh this is the switcher you can switch between mutations this apply

446. 4:22:52

     directly into the website uh uh you you see here different mutations for example badges applied uh directly into the near social or pay wall it's another mutation can contain pay wall uh as here how you can create uh mutations on the Fly uh you can just point out to the um element on uh create replacement elements and you can submit uh this uh mutation to the blockchain you can share with this mutation with another guys or submit as a pool

447. 4:23:31

     request now uh important to say that um yeah uh important to say this a huge uh it works to web 2 as well and uh it's it's a change for entire web oh okay done much sorry it was your time thank you any questions from the jury is there a business model around this sorry is there a business model around this at all uh yes we have ideas for it to get hired by Pagoda yes does boss

448. 4:24:13

     has um business model around is a business model around the boss it's similar sounds good are there any possible negative consequences to being able to mutate things over and over and over again can you talk about any of the risks that you've thought about inms terms of the the tech or are there no risks this is a perfect solution maybe I haven't understood you sorry so I I'm curious if

449. 4:24:43

     you thought through are there any risks from a technology standpoint or technical standpoint um or user standpoint of having mutations upon mutations upon mutation sort of happening throughout um throughout this space I'm asking how it will goes uh distributed how yeah exactly yes the the idea is uh that this mutation will be maintained by communities uh because um for example for Twitter communities uh um Nia has 1.

450. 4:25:14

     million users but uh specific communities like NE social has 10,000s and they will be interested uh to engage uh Twitter users into their community and they will uh make specific uh mutations to engage people from the AO Community into the the uh into for example NE social Community or learn neoc Club Community this is how it should work because uh smaller Community are interested to engage people from the other community and mutation is a tool for

451. 4:25:52

     this thank you so much team BOS mutation can I have my microphone back thank you and the clicker so let's invite to the stage next team called uni help okay just one uh hello everyone so where oh yeah uh so uh we are uh near uniel and today we are proud to present our new solution to destroy the wall between students and the study abroad so yesterday I saw a pretty cool presentation of the CEO of new found foundation and um I figure out one more time that

452. 4:26:40

     actually um yeah our idea is pretty revolutionary so it's AI secretary uh you see uh so uh Market data uh so over 5 million students uh go a study abroad each year and uh they have faced a lot of problems uh for example with uh transition uh diploma supplements and other documents and today we are going to solve this problem so how we want to do this so here you see that we have a

453. 4:27:10

     student which is going to bring documents to the uh University yeah and usually some employee who do boring work but today we do absolutely new attitude so we have a AI when University types the correct data into the AI it matched automatically all the subject which needed to match and send information to near blockchain that each product or each University can also send this information and use this information for

454. 4:27:38

     their own competents so uh what we done actually we have a uh smart contract uh who creates another smart contracts for each University uh so for example if you are like a Garber who comes to us you ask for a new smart contract and we create exact new smart contracts for you uh to work with our application you can use our AI or not our AI it doesn't really matters but ouri will be trained on the information what's stored in the

455. 4:28:05

     blockchain database or stored on our Cloud it depends on are you working with us or with other uh similar project uh so uh what we have next uh next we have our uh quick video presentation uh so I guess it started or not uh so yeah it can be started yeah so uh you can input information it's actually how it works so uh you write down the university what you're going to send your data you can write down uh the name of the contract what is the owner

456. 4:28:36

     of this uh like University storage and also name the disciplines what you're going to add and in this case uh we add a geography or we can add a math and you can see that it's automatically matched by AI so you can add one more subject on just save and it goes to uh train uh AI on the new data or to give you back a original and good PDF of the diploma uh so next slide so monetization our business model so uh student can pay a pretty low amount of money like 5 it's

457. 4:29:12

     not that good that much yeah uh for uh trying to recognition of their um of their diploma of their the time is up so if the judges have any questions about the business model it's a good time to ask yeah could could you could could you go a little bit deeper into the problem that you're you're solving uh a little bit okay so uh firstly uh if you're trying to go study abroad uh you need to uh match your subjects your translated subject or your

458. 4:29:46

     original subject with subject of the University which you're going to study uh so for example in my University I had uh the subject of Informatica but here in the lisabon you you call it objectoriented programming and you need to match these two subjects basically it's done by AI so pretty simple and this work still done by assistant on cathedra manually for every University because we don't have centralized system whereas everything match so sorry

459. 4:30:18

     follow-up question who is the user of this of this app is it the University or is it the student it's a university because they need to match uh documents what student bring to him yeah uh but it's always a fee to uh apply for some project pro programs so it's also student interest so on the on the business model why would you not swap it so instead of uh taking money from users or from students take the money from univers

460. 4:30:50

     they want to moneti this uh application through uh uh offering service to student to uh upload own diploma supplement and recognize at which university he will get more matching uh courses and where he can uh continue his education why do you need blockchain for this because it's a decentralized uh we use it like a decentralized database every University can put data in this uh database let's say let's call it and

461. 4:31:30

     every other university around the globe can access this data without any negotiation with some Central institution yeah it's pretty big problem because right now even in European Union when all University are connected there are no one database and near it's one database for all universities all over the world thank you judges yeah one more question can you explain a bit of your AI like how how it works um it's uh just learning from data

462. 4:32:05

     what we put in uh blockchain it's a language model who just try to recognize uh if this description from diploma supplement fit to our description that's all thank you team you need help thank you so we halfway through let's invite our next team is called partage I hope I'm not messing up with the pronunciation being B that's it that's it you know I remember looking under my rug at my Airbnb in Lisbon and I

463. 4:32:56

     couldn't see any key so I dialed up the owner and I asked her well there's a key missing it took her about 3 hours to come to the apartment and as a traveler I had a bunch of luggage so I couldn't really do anything um but sit there and when she finally came she gave me the key and we just started having a nice conversation about Lisbon and the restaurants in the area and this whole

464. 4:33:22

     experience inspired me to like think about and our team to build a token that users will receive when they book a hotel or Airbnb that will act as a digital key for room access and this token when used and when shown to restaurants and other places it will be used as a verification for the restaurant Partners to the hotel to give people discounts combining these Technologies on near we decided to combine partage and rodit to create the

465. 4:34:02

     solution so RIT is a non funi World token that is digitally signed and what it does is to bring together three different life cycles that can be complex to manage and that can lead to problems that the ones that they need have so you have the contract the authentication and the payment life cycles in one go by assembling the rodit token in the partage platform we are unlocking shared utility on near blockchain so basically

466. 4:34:37

     how it works owners will list properties to share and users will select a utility in the marketplace they will mint a temporary access to it they will use the NFC signal of their smartphone to unlock the utility at door so how it goes uh in terms of uxix we are Brading the marketplace we select a utility we like you can book your access here you have a calendar you you have details about the property and by clicking the mint button you receive a token the rodit on your wallet the new

467. 4:35:10

     wallet that you then use to open the Smart Lock uh with the NFC signal we conducted a bit of market research uh and have pending Partnerships um so actually we realized that one of the most important things for crypto ecosystems is to grow adopters in real life and we found out that hotels see them as promising Partners also SM B log brands are in a quite competitive industry and they seek for Niche markets so we will uh for the next step integrate our solution in