The State of Blockchain Product, Design and Development | NEAR Meetup # 1 | San Francisco, CA

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:00

   you welcome we have really huge crowd here so they thank you all for showing up on a Wednesday night I know this is a pretty busy meet-up night so thanks for doing that I think what we'll do is yea just dive right in we have three great speakers I just wanted to introduce things a little bit and provide a sense of context for it all so we know why the heck we're here and we'll take it from

2. 0:30

   there so quick read about me I lead operations at near protocol so this is this is the space that we operate out of where we're hosting here tonight near is a scaleable mobile first blockchain and we're happy to tell you more about it we're also not a shape point and actually could everyone who's here from New York could you just raise your hands so we have some in the back and then yeah that's co-founder hiding in the back there somewhere great so so we'll

3. 0:58

   be around all night and happy to talk blockchain with you guys that's why we're here so yeah what why are we all here though basically we want adoption we want to build things that people actually use we want to make sure that that we have products that are actually usable that are actually scalable and as importantly that are actually marketable and monetizable applications because I

4. 1:23

   think right now we can all acknowledge that we're in a very early phase of blockchain where we haven't necessarily crossed all of these thresholds and if this is really these are really some of the characteristics that you need to drive a meaningful set of adoption that's actually going to cross the chasm and get us to where we need to be for the technology so so the path forward you have to build products that are

5. 1:46

   going to be usable they're gonna be useful not just toys I think today we're definitely in a toy phase and it's definitely an important phase to go through but ultimately these products have to be usable and useful you have to actually create businesses not just apps so again I think we're in a phase where we're really experimenting with a lot of different things that the technology can use but if we're gonna take the next step forward we have to create meaningful business with meaningful business models we also

6. 2:10

   have to build ecosystems not just focusing only on developers and that's one of the biggest reasons why we're here because again I think because this is such a technical phase this is such a technical you know because the technology much of the focus has been the early think focus has been justifiably on the development community but overall if you want to create a real ecosystem that's actually going to create real businesses you have to start welcoming more people into that

7. 2:34

   ecosystem and if that means being radically inclusive and creating educational on-ramps that aren't just focused at people who already are very very talented developers but people who are coming from all angles of this ecosystem and into the center to meet us here and that's that's kind of the philosophy that never tried to target here the way that I like the phrase I don't know if you're familiar with startup weekends but I like to say the goal is really to be more startup

8. 2:57

   weekend than hackathon the the quick overview startup weekend this is I believe it's running out by the Kauffman Foundation it was actually the first entrepreneurial thing that I did when I was getting started seven or eight years ago and basically they they kind of it's a 54 hours to launch a business thing has anybody ever done a startup weekend does anybody know you guys know what is this oh man it's really cool thanks basically if it's like a business

9. 3:22

   hackathon and at the beginning of the weekend on Friday you you show up and you basically I mean the format varies just a little bit but you kind of show up like we have here today and you identify yourself as a developer or a designer or a business person and then they they jam you together on teams you have to have one of each on each team and and then you proceed to you know you pitch your idea like a hackathon and you

10. 3:45

    kind of just spend the next what is it fifty four hours building that idea in launching what's supposed to be a real business so so for me I did one in Austin that was one of my first introductions and I've ever since I really loved this idea that it's about bringing together multiple types of people and not just focusing again on on purely developers because that's how you that's the difference between launching an app and launching a business

11. 4:08

    so I think I'll do a show of hands in just a minute but in terms of products I mean the way forward it starts with products right the goal of a product is to build something that people use right and take it to market generally you find five phases in that you know plus or minus I know everyone kind of has a slightly different model for this but generally you kind of look at it or I kind of look at it like you have strategy your product design your product development marketing and

12. 4:33

    management sometimes this is all kind of just the same person doing it but you know in the bigger the bigger an organization is the more you start teasing those apart blockchain is still really focused just on one of those things it's really focused on product development and they and I think that's that's been sorted to the detriment of the design the marketing the management the strategy community's not entirely I mean I don't want a totally straw man it but I think we can all acknowledge that

13. 4:57

    we are very early in this adoption of more disciplines coming into this so the way that I like to I like to simplify this and the reason that this meetup is called product design and development is because you can kind of group this together and say if you kind of group it together with strategy marketing and management and kind of the product or the business and the Startup Weekend

14. 5:19

    terminology umbrella a real an effective product and effective business comes out of combining the the three legs of design development and product and again that's that that's kind of why this whole whole meetup has been framed that way is that you know these are all three very equal and independently important aspects of putting together a real business so the intentions for the group

15. 5:41

    as I mentioned is really it's just about uniting the ecosystem so it's about being emphatic 'le cross-disciplinary it's about being hands-on so tonight we're not doing anything specifically hands-on but yet the goal going forward is to definitely focus on things that you can use I mean because you know in the end of the day education is great but unless you can actually apply it in their everyday life it doesn't really it doesn't have quite the same effect we

16. 6:03

    also want to be as I said educationally inclusive so really trying to build on ramps for people who might not have an on ramp right now who are necessarily technical in the way that a lot of the educational materials are technical or you know where if you've fallen into the you know the educational vacuum as we like to call it I know are from insight we've talked about that and then of course obviously have some fun meet some good

17. 6:27

    people because you know this is a meeting zone this is a melting pot and we're kind of trying to try to grow that from here so as far as today goes this is the kickoff this is the beginning so I we have the board up front it has a lot of instructions which is you know not exactly the best thing to do in a usability focus meetup but I hope I know that least some of you were able to look at that and just just a reprise basically what we're trying to do is

18. 6:53

    determine what are we going to do in the future so we have we have sticky notes and if you have ideas for meetups or for speakers please place them on the board and as you're on your way out we have all these little colored dots like the ones that are on your nametags and if you actually put them underneath the the proposals or the sticky notes that you actually agree with or the ones that you really want to see then we'll have a really good indication of what should we do next

19. 7:16

    so you know this is democracy in action you guys vote vote for what you want to see and then we'll make it happen in terms of the nametags as I mentioned you know some of you have done and some of you haven't but the but the goal here the idea is that if you have a green dot on your nametag you're sort of one of your specialties is product you have yellow dot when your specialties is design or UX and if you have a blue dot when your specialties is development so that's that's kind of what that is and

20. 7:41

    just kind of helps drive conversations so we can see who everyone is since not everyone can see everyone right now I just wanna do a quick show of hands who would identify with a product specialty or a product focus awesome who would identify with any design or UX focus okay and who would identify with the development focus awesome okay so we're still it's a little light on the design side but hopefully we can change that and oh yeah blockchain experience quick

21. 8:11

    show of hands who is who would get will do let's say three levels who would consider themselves a blockchain newbie alright who we consider themselves kind of like middle ground just figuring it out all right and who is is full-on in the industry and then working pretty much everyday great cool well the last thing I just want to say is it would be great to if you could put your name on the email list then we'll be able to have a much more direct way of contacting you you know how this works meetups not great so we'd like to try and fill that on the side as well so

22. 8:46

    as far as today goes this is more or less where I stop we have three speakers here we'll do roughly twenty minutes for each questions if they're able to end early we'll do some questions but ultimately we'll all be sticking around for a while afterwards so feel free to reach out as well come and come and talk to us afterwards and then at the very end we'll have plenty of time to finish off your pizza and you know get to know

23. 9:11

    each other a little bit more so today's speakers on the product side we have Garrett Garrett from knodel I'm sure you guys a lot of chance to introduce yourselves but um design we have Sara Gregory from Quinn base and on the development side yeah Ronald who's who's working on cup set and so I you guys will get to know them a lot better than I could introduce and then final I have two office the pitch that we are hiring

24. 9:37

    it near we're hiring for a lot of different roles so if you're on the community side the design side the growth side the product side or pretty much every side that we have please talk to one of us or check out our website and we'd be happy to have you engaged so with that I want to say thank you all and if we could just give a quick round of applause so hi guys I'm Garrett kinsman I thought I'd talk to you guys a

25. 10:02

    bit about the product and a little bit about just kind of my journey how I discovered crypto and eventually leading to what I'm building now and how we're using some of the most cutting-edge technology that we have available to help build the future of connectivity so what I'm going to first show you guys is probably the first real product experience for blockchain and cryptocurrency and this is probably gonna make some of you guys laugh it's this I don't know if you guys can see

26. 10:33

    this but this is Silk Road so in the early days say 2011 2012 some of my friends would call this the glory days of Lock chain this represented the vast majority of all the valium on the Bitcoin blockchain and I discovered it my friends were talking about it in school and I said this is kind of crazy it's kind of interesting so I started to learn more about it of course I would

27. 10:58

    never do drugs but uh it really helped me learn that you know there's this new technology out there that's that's emerging and of course this was really the beginning of it all I eventually moved to San Francisco and joined a startup called fire chat and as a side project because I've learned more about crypto some of our friends tried to build a way to make crypto more easy for people to use and interact with because

28. 11:23

    even I had a bit of a hard time understanding how do I get crypto what do I do with it how do I hold it so we decided to build physical cryptocurrency wallets which were basically cold wallets that we printed out I did the design and we tried to make it tamper proof so this this was really my first experience really holding Bitcoin and my friend gave me a whole Bitcoin for free just to play around with and we actually ran around the city of San Francisco at

29. 11:49

    nighttime through the the Tenderloin trying to hand out Bitcoin to people and see if anybody wanted Bitcoin nobody could really understand it nobody wanted it and nobody really wanted to hear about it they want to cash it got to the point where we tried to hand out Bitcoin for free to people and people wouldn't even accept a whole Bitcoin they said I don't want it no I want cash and so I

30. 12:14

    actually went around Dolores Park as well I put on a white hat and held up cars that's a Bitcoin Bitcoin for sale $100 for a Bitcoin and no one would buy it nobody wanted my Bitcoin they they they didn't want anything to do with it they didn't understand it so really the the first the tools were available really the first tool was Satoshi white paper and the things you could do on the dark web and but the the awareness wasn't there so really I'm gonna talk about the tools I'm going to talk about the

31. 12:45

    awareness people didn't understand what what crypto was and then I'm gonna talk about the incentives now this led me to fire chat so we were a meshing to work some of the largest mesh networks that have been created in the world and this is a picture of the Hong Kong protests so in this crowd the cellular networks would not work so people would use peer-to-peer communications Wi-Fi and Bluetooth to

32. 13:11

    create a large wireless network that they could use to communicate with each other the problem was is that they didn't really have the incentive to to use this new technology and after the protest the technology died away but it was a very interesting experiment but we had the building blocks of these new technologies we had the building blocks of the awareness that you can build networks like this you can leverage crypto currencies but the dots hadn't

33. 13:37

    really been connected and there hadn't been the incentives to use these new technologies so this really brings us into the future skip ahead two years I spent some time in India and came back to kind of this new world of everyone's starting to talk about cryptocurrency and I'm walking around America totally jet-lagged and trying to understand what what's going on here in San Francisco and everyone's like crypto crazy and really kind of bring us now say a year

34. 14:04

    ago to the the maximum hype and everybody talking about Bitcoin and aetherium and all these new cryptocurrencies that came out but the the product the experience still wasn't there and it's still not there today what I'll show you is this is the probably the premier way to interact with the etherion blockchain so if if you had were involved with an ICO in the past year and maybe you got some tokens

35. 14:28

    this is how you'd get them but just to get to the website you have to go through all of these these these screens and I have to click and I have to keep clicking and I'm have to click some more and now I want to send some aetherium and I get this and maybe I want to use a pneumonic passphrase and I I it's not easy it's it's very very difficult to understand and when you start to incorporate smart contracts and regular people like myself trying to interact with smart contracts it becomes very

36. 15:00

    difficult so again the the tools are there the awareness is there but the incentives and the experience aren't there yet and this is where it gets really exciting because we're moment where people can start to build these technologies and it can become accessible for everybody we're almost there another interesting thing is this you might have seen this this is called ether Delta which really was a turning

37. 15:24

    point in my life when I saw this because I realized that you could have a decentralized market place that you can't shut down you can download this code on github and you can run it and this is very dangerous the US government actually went after the guy very similar as they went after Ross Ulbricht because this technology is powerful this technology has the power to change the world and I realized that people can start to leverage these decentralized

38. 15:48

    technologies to build tools that people can use and this is where it got really exciting and another interesting company that's doing something is stellar and stellar is making it easy for people to interact with regular currencies and use that as an onboarding tool to to blockchain and crypto currencies and get people the the currencies to really get started and so we're at this point where

39. 16:12

    we had that the technologies we had the awareness and we were ready to start to build something so say this was maybe two years ago we started to say look from our learnings from firechat and how can we use these new tools to incentivize the largest wireless network on planet earth so what I want to show you now is a very brief summary of what I'm working on now really from these learnings of trying to give away cryptocurrency and Dolores Park to seeing massive incentivized wireless

40. 16:44

    networks fail because there was no incentive and what I want to begin with is saying that our core vision was to make connectivity available everywhere and we want to leverage existing infrastructure to do that so this is what my full-time project is and so we wanted to build the largest wireless network but not own any physical infrastructure do this through decentralized technologies and all these other companies have have built massive

41. 17:09

    companies by doing this they don't own any physical infrastructure but they are able to become very very large so the problem today with with connectivity is that it's it's it's not simple it's it's very expensive if you a small device that you want to connect to the internet it's it's very difficult to do that you have to connect to a cell tower it's complicated it's it's not easy so we we set out to make it simple

42. 17:33

    global and low-cost and we now had an arsenal of tools built over the past 10 years of cryptocurrency and cloud computing and we could combine these together to create something new so the problem here is and this is where you start to get the incentive is the amount of data that an IOT device is using is increasing exponentially over time so by next year devices are going to use more

43. 17:57

    data on the internet than people so we have the incentive we have the demand for connectivity that somebody has to meet so we solve the solution by making bluetooth available everywhere globally using a crypto economic incentive we give app developers a way to monetize their apps by installing software that turns each phone into a node and this phone can connect to other devices in the environment and locate objects

44. 18:26

    locate and connect to IOT devices and if you do this with many app developers over millions of phones you can cover whole swathes of countries with decentralized crowdsource connectivity in this provides a way for app developers to monetize by meeting the supply in the demand without impacting the user experience or the user privacy in this is something that you really only could do with cryptocurrency because doing this before with the regular finances would cost not only

45. 18:56

    millions of dollars but it wouldn't be fast it wouldn't be immediate and it wouldn't be global so what we've been able to do is incentivize app developers through a cryptocurrency to be able to cover the whole United States with wireless connectivity so this is over 1 million daily active nodes that are contributing to our network that's individual smart phones that are creating IOT connectivity to devices around them this

46. 19:19

    is most likely the largest wireless network in the world by number of base stations and we're able to do this in eight months leveraging centralized and decentralized technology and distributed ledger technologies so our use cases we can we can do lots of things like locate objects and in connect but I really want to make this about the the story of products and interacting with with

47. 19:42

    crypto currencies we're in discussions with with with partners tracking things like bike sharing and vehicles and industrial applications so we've been able to build this network that can do lots of things leveraging this this crypto economic incentives for app developers to expand the network at the beginning the the utility of the network is very low because no network exists but the app developers believe that in the future there can be value so that the crypto economic impact creates value

48. 20:13

    for the network and as that expands over time actual network coverage is created and that creates the demand that then backs the value of the coin so through these economics we were able to cover a whole country with wireless connectivity in just a few months and to do that through any other way would cost hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions of dollars to roll out physical infrastructure and incentivize people to deploy that infrastructure just a few

49. 20:39

    years ago we wouldn't be able to do this so I explained how distributed ledger technologies provide the incentive for network growth but they also enable us to grow in every single country we don't have to do a bank transfer to 50 different countries we can do it immediately and in a way that is very very simple because it's the same but also we can use these distributed ledger

50. 21:02

    technologies to secure the data that's moving through our infrastructure we can provide levels of access control through a smart contract that allow only the specific people that should access an IOT device to access this data so we've created a new way for app developers to monetize without impacting the experience and without selling out private user data and then giving an access control to the devices that are all around us to who specifically can

51. 21:27

    access the data on that device so that's really in a summary I just wanted to finish by showing a a map of what our network looks like right now and just kind of to give you a breather because I think I was speaking very quickly and I made up this whole talk in the past hour but I think that gives you a good idea of how we have the tools today to build these technologies we have the awareness because of what happened over the past year because of this giant

52. 21:56

    bubble that was created and we're starting to see the glimmers of the incentive and the glimmers of the user experience to make these products accessible to everybody and this is what we've been able to create in just a few months leveraging these technologies that's roughly a million daily active nodes and with that we see over 10 million unique IOT devices every single day and where we're growing over time

53. 22:19

    this is just the beginning I guess I can go a bit into where I think a lot of this is heading in terms of product and then maybe you guys can ask some questions do you have any questions right now yeah no so we've developed what is a we call it a proof of connectivity so a smartphone will capture data from IOT devices around each each phone it moves that to the cloud and we have validation nodes that will then validate that the work that

54. 22:54

    was performed was was not fake and that will create the incentive for the app developer yes I so they they can do that for sure and we're working with some app developers that do that through coins within the app but ultimately we want to provide a good user experience for the end user and that means not showing ads that means not taking their private information and today if you have a free app especially if you're on Android you're giving something up you're generally giving up your privacy and you're giving up your eyeball time to

55. 23:36

    view advertisements so we're creating an alternative revenue source for these app developers that doesn't impact your privacy by tracking you and doesn't show you ads and we believe that's a really great user experience in another way for these app developers to make money yes in general we use less data than an advertising SDK so an advertising software that would run on a mobile app

56. 24:04

    would use lots of background data to track people and show advertisements and push videos and things like that so we generally use less than what Google or Facebook advertising SDKs would use generally human data consumption doubles every single year so we don't see it as a huge problem but we're also building ways for example a consumer app so a consumer can install this app and they can be earning what we call nodal coins by contributing to this network so then they can actually gain control over the

57. 24:37

    earnings of their device so yeah most pretty much every app that you have installed on your phone they're just using your background data there they're mining you for information and things like that brave is a web browser that actually blocks this and they break down the savings so if you go to brave browser you can actually see the breakdown of the cost savings of the background data that advertisers are basically downloading from your phone and it's it's really scary stuff because

58. 25:09

    this data is being aggregated it's being weaponized to win wars win elections so we really believe there should be another way for these app developers to monetize that could complement existing revenues yeah what's it like bringing bringing a product to market in a market that might not know a lot about blockchain or products everything kind of your target customers and how did you bring this we we generally have to distract the idea of a crypto for most people because it's

59. 25:40

    for especially fortune 500 companies very scary if we say we use crypto big companies will become afraid and they won't want to speak with us so we we say listen we we provide asset tracking for your devices and data connectivity and we extract away the idea abstract the idea that we're using cryptocurrency and we even provide ways for third parties to exchange payments into our local

60. 26:07

    currency that we can then use to to distribute so we have to extract the idea that it's crypto and just say that we are providing connectivity and for app developers it's a bit different because app developers love crypto and they're totally into this and they say man I can earn crypto by something I can install in five minutes throw they're all for it so it really depends on who you're talking to but generally with big companies because

61. 26:32

    we're a b2b play it's it's scary and we have to say no no it's oh actually I had a I had a slide yeah this slide we got this is why I have this slide here just to show that blockchain is used to protect data and secure things and it's not like those would be companies can kind of understand it yes sir no because we're using we only use existing interfaces that are on the phone so we're not really where we do run a specific protocol on the interface

62. 27:07

    but because the the virus if the virus could attack that interface at any phone with Bluetooth would be able to be attacked anyways so we don't really do anything super special on that level but the the IOT today is very insecure so we're actually building some standards that we just want to open source so that IOT manufacturers can have a secure encrypted communications because today it's really the Wild West and where

63. 27:37

    we're gonna see attacks for sure so we want to make sure to mitigate that and provide open source tools for people yeah yeah go ahead so the incentive for the the hardware manufacturer is that it's very expensive and very difficult to incorporate a SIM card into their solution our exists or complimentary solutions so we allow them just to use a bluetooth chipset which is very low cost to very low power and very very easy to

64. 28:10

    configure so we make it easy to connect and it will work anywhere in the world now again we can complement other solutions so we can work together with 4G and Bluetooth but we just make it very easy for the app developer yeah any more questions couple yes sir we we focus on delay-tolerant use cases so delay-tolerant use cases so we we periodically connect devices we're focused on use cases where you want to

65. 28:44

    connect them as cheaply as possible not as often as possible so for mission-critical use cases it's gonna have a 4G module but if you want to just track a package as it moves through city then our network is perfect for something like that because with a certain number of users within a given city it'll work and so we're doing a partnership with a fortune 500 company and we put our two hour trackers on their products and they just start

66. 29:08

    showing up which is really exciting so we can we can see really really interesting stuff and our partners are pretty happy with what they're seeing so far anymore yes sir yep yes oh no we can actually help these mesh networks connect to the internet so it has to connect to the Internet eventually and we just provide a way to send that data to the cloud in and I just wanted to say one or two more words unless I'm over time I kind of wanted to think it's a

67. 29:46

    just say a few words about where I think a lot of this technology is heading because we're very early and we're where I really feel it's heading is we've got things like this that are starting to make it easy for regular people to use crypto and be able to understand it stellar in my opinion is a really really great example of this because they make it easy for users but also for

68. 30:07

    developers so we are using stellar as our as part of our back-end for a crypto but we're also able to leverage other technologies like ipfs an IP FS is a really crazy interesting technology that was really developed around the idea if if we want to build a base on Mars how do we send data back and forth so that we can make sure the internet works on Mars and they built this whole system

69. 30:31

    around what was done on Bitcoin but with these very interesting ideas of how do we build an interplanetary file system and this allows you to do decentralized file storage so we're able to leverage this and basically create a proof that says an individual app developer did this amount of work and this work can be checked and this reward was a result of this amount of work so it's it's backing

70. 30:55

    up every single nodal coin with with real effort that was was created a proof of connectivity that we are then storing in a Merkel tree ipfs with a bit of our own technology and this is going to evolve so that we can completely decentralized every aspect of our business because we want to focus really on making connectivity great and the services around that anybody should be able to help deploy our our connectivity we believe so things like that are the basic functions of a business like file storage are gonna start to become

71. 31:25

    decentralized and where I think it's really going to head is a lot of companies today are looking at something called serverless computing so the idea of a computer is just being abstracted and people are just running software in basically modules that you can connect and and it just runs you don't have to worry about managing a system you don't have to worry about it's very very very easy for a lot of these companies and you save a lot of money and I imagine

72. 31:50

    just like ipfs was built someone's going to built a completely decentralized computer system that can really run infrastructure grade software aetherium is a very good first step but i'm not going to be able to run my core software on a theorem i need something like AWS or Google Cloud I think somebody's going to come out with a decentralized version of that that's running serverless

73. 32:12

    computing and that's really where we're I think the the industry is heading and that's when real businesses are gonna be able to start leveraging these new technologies because of the economies of scale because of the ease of use because of the robustness and the privacy factors so with that I wanted to say thank you for being a good audience I really appreciate it hello everyone I'm

74. 32:34

    Sarah and the state of blockchain design huh we're gonna do something that I think is super fun that I learned recently a thumb vote so if everyone could stick out your fist for me and what we're gonna do is on the count of three then basically you're gonna do a thumbs up if you are positive right now about the state of crypto design and box chain design you're going to be neutral

75. 32:59

    like this and then if you feel negatively about the current state of the design in the space then you're gonna be a thumbs-down so on the count of three one two three okay all right take a look around take a look around okay so that should give you a sense of where we're at right now but I'm not going to spend a lot of time standing up here tearing everybody down and saying not nice things but I think we all know this is a super Nissen space

76. 33:28

    and if you think about the small percentage of people they're actually working with blockchain and crypto and then think about what tiny percentage of those are people actually designing and and call themselves designers and then what percentage of those people are actually doing good design you know like it's it's it's just small and and quite honestly working in that space I can tell you that what it's like is it's like panic it's like just trying to keep up with all the things that are being

77. 33:54

    developed and how the industry is doing you know and you know dealing with all the things that are coming out and changes and forks that are allegedly happening and sometimes it just feels like crazy so I don't know that there's been a lot of innovation so I'm not going to spend a huge amount of time talking about the state today I want to talk a lot about the future and where it could be going and what your competitors might be doing and what you might be

78. 34:16

    able to do to keep up so the first thing I want to do is um whoo raise your hand if you've heard of crypto kiddies okay keep your hands up if you've purchased a crypto kitty okay well count it it's fine um and now um keep your hand up if you purchase your crypto key from scratch without having a wallet or any eath nobody a little bit so I'm gonna take you through that experience today because I think that it's pretty representative of what I think is actually like decent design but also representative of where we are with bar

79. 34:51

    chain so oh I press next Oh arrow okay great I'm so sorry if you can't see very well um so I'm on the crypto kiddies website and I want to play I work at UM so what do I need to play I need a computer running Chrome or Firefox a digital wallet I'm not sure what that is and a theory I'm a digital currency definitely not sure what that is so I read them it's a lot of words and really sure they tell me they need it

80. 35:14

    sounds good um you know they're doing a decent job kind of explaining to me that I need it and all the steps okay so I go through it looking at that okay get Chrome from the Web Store now I'm going in meta mask not sure what that is cute fox and then add meta mask and now we've added men masks not really sure where to go and then sign into meta mask and then they have a new version okay so now I'm creating a password and now they're having me click through some stuff you

81. 35:39

    need to count image privacy notice phishing warning Oh secret backup phrase and then they have to you have to reenter the secret backup phrase and now you're depositing ethers like okay so I guess I'm gonna buy it on coinbase oh my gosh what even is coinbase who even knows what that is and I even had to stop here because I have a couple of corn-based passwords because I have an employee account in a personal account and we haven't even gotten to the point where I have crypto currency to buy a

82. 36:04

    crypto kitty that to me is the state of crypto design right now and it's not the fault of crypto keys or meta mask or coinbase or anybody it's just the way the industry is right now so you know my biggest thing is that it actually my problem isn't even with how many steps there are or you know how it looks it actually looks pretty nice like given how many steps are they do a decent job

83. 36:32

    of stepping through the steps my biggest problem with the state of crypto and blockchain design is why do I want a crypto kitty you know what why would that be interesting or important in my life I mean if I'm a tech person then I think that's really cool because I like cool technology but other than that I I'm not really sure so I'm on the crypto kitties website it says each cat is one-of-a-kind and a hundred percent owned by you it'd kind of be replicated

84. 36:58

    taken away or destroyed cool was I worried about that is that something I should be concerned about and so I think the biggest barrier to the adoption of blockchain products is that we haven't really given people always a good reason to adopt blockchain products and that's not just a problem with design it's a problem with product it's a problem with marketing it's a problem with a whole lot of things but I think that's that's kind of where we're at so if I could just

85. 37:28

    I think the state my personal opinion of the state of blockchain encrypted design is looks cool okay lots of blotching words and apps and use almost exclusively by blockchain people and that's not really great for a huge adoption so like I said I'm not gonna spend a huge amount of time talking about this what I want to do is I think that what's important about this room is I'm more interested in the future of blockchain and crypto design and that's

86. 37:57

    everybody right here and so I want to give you the tools to do it and what I'm gonna tell you is like not super rocket science it's actually true of any product in any industry with any user base and so it might sound really simple but I promise that a lot of people are not doing it very well and a lot of people who think they're doing it are naturally not doing it at all so I hope

87. 38:20

    that you will keep this in mind it's harder than it looks and it's not even cheat codes so the way that this talk is going to be structured we'll talk about defining your target audience for your project defining your value proposition and testing relentlessly and why that's important so we'll start with defining your target audience so let's say this is you and forget about crypto forget

88. 38:44

    about blockchain for a moment you want to develop a delivery app you have a startup you have a great idea for delivery app this is you will call you a developer you can be a product person just think of yourself as a maker of any kind that's really ok and so when you think about the user of your delivery app um there's maybe not exactly you um and you should probably still do some testing but they're pretty close to you I would say that this is true of a lot of Silicon Valley and tech startups right now both people who are making it

89. 39:10

    and people who are using it are digital natives they live in urban areas they have smartphones that they use really regularly they're very comfortable with apps in they in fact even order things regularly on apps for a variety of different delivery things Amazon Facebook Twitter Oberer like they're very familiar with all those things so actually this person has a lot in common

90. 39:28

    with you if you're making this app so when you say things like I know users are going to want this or I've asked around and people want this you're probably not getting it exactly right but your not that far off so now this is where I think we are with the state of crypto and blockchain let's say that you're a developer a maker and you're making a blockchain infrastructure product I would argue that the same is still true

91. 39:53

    you actually have a lot in common with your user you're both technologists you understand how the block chains of different kinds different protocols you're familiar with github api is you're familiar non-custodial crypto products maybe you're even redditors visiting like tellurium discord who even knows and so in the same sense like when you claim that you know your user you probably know them decently well um but

92. 40:17

    think about the ambitions of a lot of people in the blockchain space and I've talked to a lot of these people I know that you may be some of them here you are your maker or you want to make a social good blockchain products you want to save the whales you want to cure homelessness you want to do all these really important things that you believe you want to create an open financial system for example um how much do you really have in common with your user in

93. 40:40

    this case maybe some maybe not a lot it kind of depends but when you say no no I've asked around and I know users are going to want this or are not going to want this do you even know um have you talked to a lot of those people because if you're not talking to those people I'm not sure you do know and forget if you're also trying to do something that's going to allegedly help in different countries like Venezuela store

94. 41:05

    value different countries in Africa I would need a bunch more monitors to maybe put you know where that person is in relation to you and your life experience and the problem is I think a lot of people like they think they know this person and they develop and make for this person without ever actually talking to those folks and testing things on those folks so I would just say that if you like define who is it

95. 41:30

    that you're building for it's okay if you're building a block teen infrastructure product for blockchain infrastructure people that's alright talk to those people but if you're developing a social good app that's really gonna bank the unbanked you better be talking to the unbanked be like what do they do who do they talk to what's important to them do they know about blockchain do they associate blockchain with Bitcoin and scams and web and weird stuff or do they know

96. 41:54

    exactly what the point is what's competing for their attention what terms are they familiar with did I even know about basic finance do they know what market cap means and I think they'll be surprised that a lot of your assumptions are not accurate and a lot of people you know are not actually having the conversation so this is a scrubbed version of a persona raise your hand if you're familiar with a persona okay so I think most personas

97. 42:19

    are not actually really good because they don't have like a lot of they don't have a lot of this stuff they have like maybe a name maybe a nice picture but it's not really based in actual research it's not based in actual like conversations interviews with those folks so yeah but you can I suggest you make one of these and I suggest that you post it all over your office put it you

98. 42:46

    know in your bedroom put it like in every book that you read like study this and know it because then you'll be able to speak confidently about who your user is and then your instincts will be more dead-on and base it in data don't just assume so um you know it will help you prevent from making statements like this they'll get because they understand how an etf works I've heard this from someone um not everybody understands how

99. 43:10

    an etf works does your target audience understand how an etf works some target audiences do some target audiences don't you need to decide who is the target audience for your particular project similarly everyone's already going to coin micro-cap anyway a lot of target audiences are going to coin market cap anyway many aren't so don't be a person that's making these assumptions without actually being able to back it up so that's number one define your target

100. 43:35

     audience number two is define your value proposition which is a lot harder than it sounds so one way that I like to think about this way back in the day when I was in another life we used to call these whips and what with them this is WI I FM if you can't see it this stands for what's in it for me what is the actual tangible life benefit that you are giving somebody and it's harder

101. 44:00

     than it sounds so I'll give a really basic example so you're a buying laundry to turn and you've got these two choices here you've got the one on the Left which is tired the one on the right which is all and so why would you go with the one on the right like what is the actual value proposition of going with the one on the right it has stained lifter on it so fewer stains okay that's great I'm they're easier to get out less manual scrubbing and more detergent for less money because it's a bigger thing so

102. 44:24

     those are the actual benefits that you're going to get if you go with the one on the right so um here's our favorite type of blockchain project which is on the Left we have Google Maps and I totally made this up by the way on the right is Google Maps on watching um maybe someones even trying to do this I don't know I just made it up but um what would be the value proposition of Google Maps on watching like what is the tangible benefit maybe to technologists

103. 44:49

     it's pretty cool because then it's like oh look I've got maps on the blockchain but for a lot of people what is the actual benefit from that and here's an example that might be just a little controversial so on the Left we have Twitter and the right we have um people ppthe I'm not exactly sure the right way to pronounce it but it's built on the etherium protocol it is decentralized Twitter so what's the value proposition of having a decentralized Twitter versus

104. 45:13

     just a normal Twitter like what's the actual value proposition to someone who's choosing between these so you could say all right well on people we'll go with people um you can't be censored um so my question to you then um for sure that's definitely true given how it's built my question to you is does your target audience care about being censored is that something that actually like prevents them from using Twitter is that something they've ever considered and if

105. 45:38

     you don't know you should be asking them so here's another great example and one that I think a lot of people have not cracked yet here is a US dollar versus Bitcoin and a lot of people will try to explain the value propositions of Bitcoin with its peer-to-peer it's decentralized distributed consensus secured with cryptography I had so much fun coming up with these I was literally asking the people next to me like can

106. 46:02

     you count me come up with some more bullets I got uncorrelated asset class and it's the future of money um so I see some smiles because we sometimes we're very convinced by this these are good value propositions for us but here's a quote from someone we're doing user research on and he's saying on Wikipedia the definition is a digital asset this is the definition for cryptocurrency a digital asset designed to work as a medium of exchange that uses cryptography to secure its

107. 46:29

     transactions and then he says but it doesn't really give any simplistic definition of what it actually does so the next time you think about the way that you're explaining your blockchain project is somebody when you're designing your marketing website and all your features do are you using jargon that your target audience actually understands so here's a different way of explaining the value propositions of Bitcoin easy international payments a

108. 46:55

     stable against government collapse should that happen you and no more fed that's a different way of explaining what the value propositions of Bitcoin are and so then my question to you is does your target audience care about those things if your target audience is in Venezuela maybe they really care about bullet point number two but if they're in the US maybe they don't care so much you know are they sending any

109. 47:18

     international payments if they are maybe they care and if they're not they're not so learn what they're up to and what they know about and what they care about because every target audience is different and then the third one test relentlessly I use this term very deliberately because if you're doing any testing you're probably not doing enough testing and that includes me by the way I'm probably not doing enough testing so here's just an illustration of design

110. 47:44

     without testing um so you come up with your great strategy you've got a great concept you'll love it you're in rooms you're arguing you feel very productive you're staying up late wire framing prototyping building and suddenly you've got this amazing product you have some months into it your life your dreams your blood your sweat and then it turns out like whoops like did you ever actually test it on anybody you know was

111. 48:07

     it actually what they needed in the first place was it designed for the right person you came up with it in a box maybe so here's design with testing you come up with your strategy but then you kind of like look at the market and see is there an opportunity for that and you see we had it kind of right but I'm getting signal that we should go in the other direction so then you come up with some concepts and you have a couple

112. 48:30

     and you run them by people who are in your target audience and then you figure out that one is actually performing a lot better than the other and so on and so on so by the time you get to the end you know that you've got it you're not guessing you have all kinds of evidence and definitely you can't just be testing on anybody you should be testing on your target audience I'm a broken record on purpose and the reason that I make such a big deal about this is because you

113. 48:55

     will be tempted you just say well I went to the cafeteria and asked a bunch of people or you know my friends say this we've all done it and we'll all be tempted to do it but that means that you're a blockchain person designing with watching people in mind and it will prevent adoption of your product and it's hard it's it's hard to find people who actually meet all of your criteria that you've listed out to convince them to spend time on you a lot of times you

114. 49:19

     have to pay them money but it's worth doing I promise so I just want to show you some concrete examples from when we were working on coin based wallet which is coin bases non-custodial solution for if you want to hold your own private key so if you can't see it very well I'm very sorry but these are very early iterations of what the design of coin based wallet and we had a very talented designer we had a very talented product managers

115. 49:41

     still do and they created this amazing interface for what we thought it should look like and we tested it on two versions of target audiences we tested it on people who were meta mask users who presumably understood crypto a lot of that stuff and we also tested it on people who were interested in cryptocurrency and knew something about it but had never bought any before and had never used any kind of wallet or coin based product or anything and what

116. 50:06

     we noticed it was amazing we you never know what you're gonna find until you test on people the first thing that we noticed was that we told people how from this screen over here okay you're looking at your coins and all that um how would you send aetherium from this screen let's say you want to send it to another address you want to send it to a friend um well we noticed that the people who understood crypto they would tap on eath aetherium and then they

117. 50:33

     would there would be a little button and it would say send but the people who weren't familiar with crypto at all they looked around they'd go up here they kind of flail they kind of go down here like I'm not really sure I'm looking for a send button and I'm not finding it and we had no idea that those two target audiences were going to react so differently so the first thing that we said was oh my gosh we need a send and receive button right up there and we

118. 50:57

     would never have known that same thing we found when we tested on people who were familiar with non-custodial solutions and had used other wallets versus people who were just coin based users of the general consumer products then we found that all of the coin based users they went straight to sign in because they thought that they already had an account on coinbase wallet and they didn't realize that it's a different thing and we were like oh man we need to correct for that right away

119. 51:21

     because suddenly they're gonna be like ah you know it's not it's not working you can't log in problem problem and they were like and then I'd be on the phone with support and we're like oh no oh this is bad and so one of the things we had to do is we had to educate people on how this is different than the big blue sea that they downloaded from the App Store and they need to create a new wallet so these are the sorts of things that you learn that will absolutely kill adoption of your product if you're not

120. 51:43

     doing regular testing and it happens to the best of us in fact I would say that the best testers and the best designers find more bugs when they do testing because they're doing a good job of surfacing them and then correcting for them so you can do it on just five people one round take a prototype test it on five different people I promise you I won't list you this whole long list of things that you will find you'll find people getting confused on things you never thought that they'd get

121. 52:08

     confused on you will find people using your app for way different things than you thought it will absolutely blow your mind so try it on just five people I swear so those are the three steps like I said it's not rocket science it's maybe not even anything you haven't heard in any other life startup accelerator but your competitors are gonna start doing it pretty well so I recommend that you

122. 52:30

     learn how to do it as well so that's all thanks questions uh yeah if there are any oh sorry go ahead Wow you know I think they do a good job with what they have like I definitely don't mean to throw them under the bus I think that compared to a lot of other crypto products that we probably know and love and are not going to name like they do a great job of making it so that you can my issue is more like it's so many steps that if you're not sufficiently motivated to buy a crypto kitty you're probably gonna drop out and

123. 53:20

     the interesting thing is we're all technologists here you all are bought in you're here I'm bought in I work at coinbase and so it's really easy to convince technologists and early adopters to try your stuff because they like cool tech they're gonna try it anyway like to them that is a compelling enough value proposition it's everybody that you're worried about yeah that's a great

124. 53:44

     question um I think ideally they'd probably see themselves and by the way I don't work on the wallet team so I probably am not as good an answer of that question as somebody who works on that team but I think it would probably be the same as most other non-custodial solutions that are in the market which is everybody for lots of reasons sorry yeah would you say that demand creation or like user experience

125. 54:13

     adoption is the biggest like um what do you mean by that so demand creation would be more like the awareness like reading like when you said why do people want to cryptocurrency we're like getting ahead of the choice points that you want us through almost like a bit so that they when they land they already know that they want one there's this like you know going through and having it be so frustrating right it doesn't have

126. 54:35

     widespread adoption I think it's so I hear what you're saying about the demand creation I would rephrase it not as demand creation and more as meeting demands that are already there like I don't want to create a problem that I'm gonna try to solve for you I want to solve problems that you already have and I just think that a lot of blockchain projects have not convincingly done that because they're not solving real problems that actual

127. 54:58

     people have pilot awareness then maybe awareness of a solution but you know what I'm saying like connecting people's problems and that they know that yes I would say that most people who are making blockchain projects right now do not have awareness of actual problems that people need solved yeah um who's done a good job of this so honestly I think that probably the reason that we're all in the room today is because nobody's really doing a great

128. 55:41

     job of this I mean like we definitely wouldn't have to have meetups about the state of adoption of blockchain if it wasn't kind of a problem I'm sure there are people who are doing it well um but I'm not sure that anyone has like the secret sauce yet is that a non-answer for you how do you monitor if you still have the right design for your users yes it starts okay with your first yeah I'm just using it but how do you

129. 56:11

     monitor if you're still having design constant testing I would say yeah I mean definitely a combination of qualitative and quantitative data I think is always warranted you want to have analytics on whatever you're putting out there but also just making sure that you're always putting it in front of people um you know there's nothing that really is any like if nothing lights the fire like putting in front of people and watching

130. 56:36

     them struggle with something you didn't think they were going to struggle with yeah so it sounded like the first question you asked was how do you know when you have a good design but the second question is when is it time to refresh oh okay I mean sometimes designs get refreshed just cuz designers get bored I'm not necessarily a big fan of that I think that it should get refreshed when you find that there are problems with

131. 57:15

     the current one either through qualitative or quantitative data you're realizing that there's some where people are stumbling I don't think a refresh should happen just for the sake of it happening but you know you have a good design when you know people are able to figure it out and you're delighting them and they love you all right how's everyone's portfolio doing today what a

132. 57:41

     day so I'm gonna talk about development and the state of where it is right now and I'm gonna use a little bit of cetera and everything because right now we're not exactly I think where we should be and a little about myself I have to look up actually what I would I wrote here so at last year I created a couple of open-source crypto tools with the idea to make crypto easier or easily accessible to more people I mean I think right now we are I mean what kind was a

133. 58:24

     percentage of people in the world who's using crypto right now is 1% or maybe even less and probably like like like like a large percentage of that is using coinbase which is also by the way but not like any any any decentralized tools right and I think we're all here just to make sure that that we get to the next 10% or maybe next 20% happens in the end I think if when we talk about crypto

134. 58:48

     when we talk about the unbanked there's a lot a lot of work to do to get to the next say even like 10% so I work with a couple of fonts helping set up like like like the crypto funds what a few articles on both lightning crypto in general usability and also as part of my busy research trust in peer-to-peer networks and now and then you see these these articles pop up in in in like krypter krypter

135. 59:19

     paper still and I worked on two Hardware stars before that Sam so I'm gonna talk about composites this is a project I've been working on for the last couple of months and basically it's it's an integrated development environment which means basically an editor for smart contracts and it is a tool that works with existing blockchains and existing tool chains in other words it's blocked in agnostic so it doesn't really matter what kind of blockchain you have it's built in such a way that

136. 59:54

     this product will work with all the existing block chains I'm working together with a company called ether lime sue gets a better interaction and better time together all the tools out there and the tools as editors that people see just not for composite also for other editors in the future and I've been testing this so that that's good to hear your storage is now so women testing this with me a cup of companies including axioms n those are the creative cryptokeys balance which is a

137. 1:00:27

     wallet galaxy digital true story and coral these are companies that are testing I my apt last couple of months there's a kind of alpha alpha tests so the perk will be out in next year somewhere first quarter will be the beta everything goes well and before that I wanted to just just just my question would have been like like does anybody know this application but now my question is can everybody see this application in this is this small screen and if so does anybody know which

138. 1:00:57

     application this is yeah it's small I know oh sorry yes hard yes so this is turbo pascal from ninety eighty four and white up here is because the market in 1984 was pretty much similar to what the development market was is now for a crypto so 1984 you had a lot of like like command-line tools you needed to use like like you know yes III wasn't developing back then at least not not like professionally in in in Pascal so I mean this is all what I found on Wikipedia so feel free to correct me if

139. 1:01:37

     I'm wrong so the way it look like is if you had a lot of like different standalone command-line tools which you kind of had a time together to edit your app compile debug and and and deploy it and everything pretty much like like crypto is right now so what happens is is interesting so the market they thought and they is more on the maker for Pascal it's thirty thousand people was thirty thousand people that was like like like how many compounds were sold by all the competitors together at that

140. 1:02:09

     point now how many do you think how many copies did Boren sell turbo Pascal after and within two 1/2 years F introduction does anybody want to take a guess well yes hmm a thousand yeah could be could be sure I guess mmm yeah that's probably true too yeah so when your market is thirty thousands it might surprise you but they sold 400,000 units in two and a half years so this is like like like like more than ten times the market size

141. 1:02:49

     in in total which means that if you have a product that they're that good would we it was it was affordable and was a good manual you might be able to expand your market considerably and sell way more more copies than than than you originally thought and why is this important well the consequence of having like locks in so many developer tools in the hands of so many people was that there was an explosion right after

142. 1:03:18

     Travis Kyle came out of applications for ms-dos there's all these people in the middle everyone open the package but the people who did they create applications for them and maybe not all of these applications were as useful as they could have been but a lot of them were so what turbo Pascal did is it kind of arguably made a market for for ms-dos because there was a platform where turbo pascal bus was closed for and a lot of platforms that L was not on may have

143. 1:03:54

     been left behind at points so this is important for for block chains as well because you want to have as many developers as possible on your blockchain if you make it too hard well that's gonna be bit tough tough proposition for for block chains so let's go to e theorem so each team arguing has like the best ecosystem for developers at the moment there and if you go to their website they suggest you use a application called remix turns out

144. 1:04:28

     remix it's not a real application it's a website and our website is based in editor and a compiler so I turn it out yesterday I the first thing you get is an error message you can't really see it here but it says like the error message I'll read it out loud you are using HTTP connection please switch to HTTP if you are using remix against an HTTP web 3 provider or allow mix connect content in your browser I have no clue what that means but there's a button called start

145. 1:05:03

     to compile which I think this should be compiled so let's take that one now this screen pops up and it says on top here the compiler returned the following internal error and then like a lot of text I'm not gonna gonna gonna gonna borrow reading and I'm less into this please join remix Gator channel for more information as if everybody's gonna do that so this is actually an error that I'm using the wrong browser so it says

146. 1:05:32

     here in very small letters I should use fire Fox and this is kind of the state for where were we at so this is not the most most friendly friendly way and to get snow and then and and of course I mean if if you really want to want to do this you can you can get through this and you can use Firefox and and figure out all the other because this is just the beginning right I mean there's a lot of

147. 1:05:57

     like issues like like this to begin with so this is not the easiest way on mooring new developers and I talk to a lot of like like like developers who use smart don't have smart contracts on a daily basis only theorem and they're not even using this they only use remix to deploy their contracts and use like the diff different editors to develop the contracts to begin with so there should be a better way and there is so just

148. 1:06:31

     like ms-dos in 1984 there's like tons of command-line tools you can use for developing in cerium and if you google you find like like like I mean there's a lot of them so and they're by the way I'm making jokes about this but the tools are good but the thing is if you're a new developer it's hard to know where to start so let's look at the website for example what what websites say so this is one website I'm gonna read it for you so it says the next evolution in to tool

149. 1:07:05

     Suites it's built from the ground up on dotnet core to meet the rapidly growing needs of the smart contract development community push the boundaries of what's possible with a strong testing and security backbone implemented directly in the system let's build awesome together we I have no clue what what but what does even means what I'm downloading here another one the platform enables a secure and

150. 1:07:32

     thriving ecosystem of aetherium depths and smart contracts for sure I mean why not and it goes on I mean it is it is hard to find anything what what what you really need and the thing is it turns out you need all of them because all these different tools and hater different parts of the ecosystem I mean there's some overlap but not that that much this kind of kind of company idea of all the steps you need for developing a smart contract right yet install the tools you want to have

151. 1:08:02

     templates probably you want to edit there's some linting and debugging going on other thing unit testing and deployments so I've kind of frustration I came up with the idea for composite and what composite basically is is a layer on top of all the needed tools so I'm not taking the tools away because the existing command-line tools work and and different assets and to be honest they're good they're really good but there's nothing that ties them together

152. 1:08:33

     and that's what I set out to do so composite has an interface the one I only mentioned earlier the one we are building with ether line together for a standard interface to all these these kind of kind of kind of tools and if not then I usually read x-bar parsing to get all data back and forth from from these tools it comes with a template you why it has an editor it has a debugger and a bi UI meaning that you can interact with all the contracts once you deploy them

153. 1:09:05

     and this example I'm using ether lime but as easy I can switch it out and use throttle for example which is one of the frameworks free theorem it's not familiar with math it doesn't really matter what you need use underneath or if you want to use different blockchain that's possible too like for example to the near protocol blockchain so what do we do differently so so one is its documentation the documentation currently that you find on online is

154. 1:09:37

     often outdated or hard to understand so we started out writing a book so we're busy with the if you're in book right now and just to make it easy and understandable what if there in me is what smart contracts are need like simple things like like where it was smart contracts even run for example right because if you can start with with with with contracts this is not always obvious these things and second thing is is is your repentance ease the dependencies

155. 1:10:08

     are the command-line tools that that we use underneath and those can be be complicated and they update quite frequently and they break things quite frequently the way it simply works is every time you start up composite you see an update so what's available the versions of what's installed and if you want an update to to newer version and that's just simple one one click and you update all the tools and that you need

156. 1:10:35

     which like like ruffle or ganache or solium or what-have-you it's that easy same thing for for for installing potato that only only once next thing is templates there are templates like firfer open open Zeppelin and that's what I'm using as well but if you use open Zeppelin it's still pretty hard to get started it's not entirely obvious what you have to do so I'm creating a little bit more than than that so that's more info you can get on what you want to do now this is by the way an example an early example has been

157. 1:11:08

     changing a lot recently but you usually when you start a contract you you know what you want to do more or less and you don't have to know I think which standards ERC standard for a cerium you want to want to use or what kind of standards you have for products change right and once you have that still usually even opens up and there's nothing that gets you started so in in in my case I added so contracts with

158. 1:11:38

     very simple placeholders where you can just add your own code with an old document at what you have to do and it turned out that that is a lot easier for for a lot of people even act like experienced developers because you're not always like developing the same kind of contract rights and these are just just very simple ways of of making life a lot easier for for new and experienced developers and from this interface and

159. 1:12:03

     again this is an older version already from this interface you can do everything you can debug you can audit you can deploy like on a local server or on maintenance and you don't have to be part with all the command-line tools this is just the only thing you really need to do to have the same thing as your Pascal screenshot I showed you it's similar to to Xcode it just simple question of coding and running it's

160. 1:12:33

     that's that simple I wanted to do to end with with with with a couple of thoughts but I noticed like like in space I talked to a lot of like like open source developers who like me are developing developer tools and the one thing always comes up is financing and which is kind of kind of surprising because we're in an industry that that it's probably the richest industry if all the startup

161. 1:12:56

     started but we have right I mean if you know how much money there is going on and all these icos and and exchanging everything yet for the trade of the tools it's always pretty hard to find like funding for further their their projects surprisingly and maybe it's because like a lot of these tools because they're open source they're often free they're not like really a business their product they might not be a business and if they are business they're probably not like if we see Beca business because of scaling issues and

162. 1:13:27

     what-have-you so we're kind of kind of kind of kind of dependent on things like like like grants from from funds like each team has a lot of funds I think that I'd like three which is pretty special but turns acts like like a lot of bigger block chains and in a newer block chains don't have lack like those those those funds set up yet and you'd be surprised like like the biggest ones

163. 1:13:52

     who don't have that yet and that that that's I think holding back their own box chains because you want to have like like that these tools and many more tools for your blockchain and and maybe this is not for everyone but then grant and other developers like like like like so that they can make that kind of kind of kind of tools and one thing I've been thinking of is is every day in Oracle while ago about corn base and they had this idea for developers in residence

164. 1:14:24

     and I thought it was like the best idea ever basically what what what what they had had in mind was like higher open-source developers give them like like a regular engineering salary but let them work on their own projects in the corn-based office for example unfortunately that that that is not a case anymore so they kind of pivoted from from that idea but every one I'm going to give it to the people here as an idea because it is interesting way of helping like the

165. 1:14:57

     open-source community especially like like an expensive area like the Bay Area to pay their bills and and and and make something together so thank you for listening I think the key pink pink point for for lack like new developers is to get starts so where do you start is there's no often no clear a space where to start from and for experienced developers it's often like like auditing for example so auditing of contracts is is is either extremely expensive and there are a

166. 1:16:03

     couple of tools now that are not exactly there yet but but like like like I mean but it may be in the future but that's that's that's still a pain point and what I hear from promote experienced developers is is if they are used to tools like for example Xcode or or lack tact like the more mature tools it is a step back or two steps back if we try to develop for her blockchain and that is

167. 1:16:35

     not a killer but it's kind of kind of kind of annoying for these people because they used to be being like more productive than they are right now awesome yeah yeah I mean I don't know how exactly this did it it's I don't think anybody really tried right I mean if if if coinbase tried it didn't didn't last that long but I do think yes there has to be like like it has to be like it has to be time constrained

168. 1:17:14

     definitely I don't know what what right time is why that'd be three months or six months or one year it is kind of yeah yeah yeah maybe it's a good idea to talk to like VCS right because feces have like like like enterpreneurs writers residence and they do have something moving day they do work for for for for if we see more or less I don't know what the average time is that they spend it at Lisa's to be honest but

169. 1:17:45

     there might be a good start to look yeah then I mean happy to do thing with you if you I mean yeah yeah yeah awesome