[REDACTED] Online Hackathon Marketing w Vish Proximity and Misha Sweat Economy

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

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   p all right man welcome everybody uh that's there's our intro just keep adding to it every week um loved it not expensive at all no a dude the numbers that's we got to talk about that too I think we're in a time in marketing where where cost isn't always mean best right and we can get into that a little later too I think there's some getting some clever ways to fix things but yes

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   so um welcome everybody Welcome this is a AMA special marketing Edition and we have two of the biggest marketers in the near ecoystem we got Vish the head of product marketing at proximity and Misha the CMO sweat very excited for this project or this this AMA and we've got some people joining a little later on just to kind of frame some of this for some different users but um so just a little highlevel housekeeping redacted a

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   near event is running an online hackathon currently that has over 1,400 people hacking already and it's growing it has just been extended to October 31st due to demand there's over 700,000 in bounties and there's still time to join because not only can you hack for you know chain abstraction and chain Extinction all that kind of stuff there's also AI agent bounties which is a whole other vertical and those take less time but there's a lot more time to still join so check all that out and I will'll have links below and all that

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   all right housekeeping done welcome fish Misha let's begin let's talk marketing specifically for hackathons and projects and what they're going to build and all that stuff so V if you want to jump in right I love it I think uh uh like I will actually just sto uh by just like you know kind of shattering the glass one of the biggest things which I have noticed and I've been in blockchain for a while now like uh one of things like

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   before near I was with like another blockchain and everything but one of the key things that I noticed that marketing was never integrated from the GetGo in most of the projects ever and I think that is one of my challenges and also one of the things that I would 100% change like over the next three years like marketing needs to be you know one of the founding fathers of any project

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   that anyone builds like they need to find out the product Market fit before they invest so much time and they need to have a structure yeah Misha what do you feel about that too what is your kind of if you had to give your like high level of like how you think of marketing with hackathons and you know just kind of frame how you kind of think about it oh it really comes down to understanding that marketing is simply a

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   subset and uh kind of subcategory of communication so if we understand communication in the simplest most fundamental pure form whether it is to a user current user future user potential user former churn user it doesn't really matter uh we have to understand that marketing is just a tool to engage to attract to excite and uh you know when you're building a new project specifically whether it's a hackathon or you starting you know your own startup or you're

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   building on top of something already very very large like we're doing you still have to go into the kind of key fundamentals and and first principles of things which is you have to stand out and provide two fundamental things and that is both from product as well as from communication and marketing and that is you have to be useful to the user and valuable and if you can't figure that out you won't be able to succeed in

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    NE dud agree like M on that like also that like this does raise a philosophical question in a way is like you know what is marketing like what is really marketing are we creating a need or we are sub like Supply information for that particular need is it the feature or is it the benefit that you know what the end user thinks about wait Jerry I got to pop in there because vichelle is saying something really essential it's like what are we creating first right we creating a solution to a

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    problem or we're seeking the opposite essentially you know problem solution chicken egg um and I think a lot of blockchain projects and web three projects over the past few years have really just been you know Finding solutions for problems that really doesn't exist right and uh we had sweat work very differently where it's like there is a massive problem in the world which is global inactivity where roughly third of the world's population are considered inactive and among

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    adolescents just 10 to 19 year olds 81% are inactive have an inactive lifestyle we at sweat incentivize them to move solving a real problem through the use of web three and blockchain yeah I think like one of the key things about sweat and one of the reason it became my uh one of the most favorite products in general like I'm not talking about Nia right now I'm just talking about just in

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    general in web 3 you know first you guys had crazy traction for the nine years in the web two moved on to like a more of a web three things but at the same time you maintain the same values you actually have have a tangible use case which a lot of the projects that don't yeah and real quick guys you're you're you're we are you're giving such great information and I think a lot of people who are like building projects don't always know where to start right like I think like that's like if we can think of the audience like say you're a

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    hackathon you're a Dev you're a deep Dev and you're like I don't really like you know you didn't go to marketing or as some uh user dropped Seth Goen this is marketing like come on that's a great book you know right here just like and if you guys drop uh comments and stuff I now that I I'll totally bring them up on stage but that's super right LinkedIn user but like this is like the important thing so for this hackathon we'll kind of mix between like maybe tactical like

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    stuff that people can do plus greater um possibilities after the fact so someone starts a hackathon how do they start to think about like this problem solution construct Michelle you want to go first on that one or should I go yeah no I think that there's a few sets of uh problems they need to overcome and answer essentially to for themselves and that is not just a problem and solution um that is the

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    first one okay what problem am I solving and for who that is the most essential question who are my potential users who are my potential interested parties out there depending on whether you're building a defi protocol uh or a DEX or an aggregator an indexer or you're actually building consumer faced and consumer facing products you have to think of who will actually use this and to what extent right am I looking for getting someone's attention or someone's capital

17. 9:20

    or someone's interest Hey Joe what's going on man on Hey Joe hey hey so um just to pick up the thread there first thing first try to solve a real problem for real people out there that is the most essential question especially when you're building on near because near has such incredible infastructure it's fast like a I don't want to say the word but it's really fast okay and it is

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    scalable through shorting that you can just continuously scale beyond Infinity essentially now with chain abstraction you know the world is your oyster you know you can literally just tap into new communities we had sweat just you know we we integrated five of them a few weeks back and it's rolling out in the next couple of weeks to more than you know 10 million users so I mean

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    we're talking about abilities where you can you can scale very quickly if you have the right formula so you're doing a go to market to those five communities right and this is where I think marketing really can amplify a project so you have sweat already now you're like okay these five communities do you from a CMO standpoint how do you think about rolling out a campaign at your scale and then you think there's a way for someone at a small scale like say two devs hacking three devs hacking to

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    do something that has low work high impact that could maybe not match what you do but help get them started yeah I think I go to that second part of the question first I you know when you build building something quite small in scale um it's all about getting the signal and see if it's if someone is interested you know is this getting any traction whatsoever and if not then maybe you're not doing the right thing doesn't mean that the project should be tanked it just means that you know you

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    have to have more patience you have to more perseverance you have to push through but I think now with chain abstraction there is just so much possibility to actually test that in different communities in different locals and geolocations the world uh for us the importance is to partner up not only with the blockchain foundations of these other chains but also on with the top daps and kind of application layers on the chains so because suddenly you're just you know

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    near as great as a community but it's still an island right it is many other Islands some were just Building Bridges but those bridges are invisible able immutable Mission lless and transferable so it's it's a pretty good place to too many engines not enough carriages yeah but and Misha what you're just saying there is okay Partnerships that's a way that a smaller project can start marketing right like it doesn't have to be these huge te but you just

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    your small team you create your like basic assets I I always say don't don't go too heavy on assets at first just get some stuff have fun you know don't don't spend money there product Market F any way yeah yeah then Partnerships could be something that these teams do do you guys advise and Joe let me catch you up amazing marketing stuff how and I'm trying to sort of like funnel that into what you you know this hackathon right

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    we have 1400 over 1400 hackers how do they do things while hacking that can also be leveraged to Market their product and then feel free to jump in and ask any specific questions for that too because I really want to know how we can help people in this hackathon right now as well like I would say like one of the first things like before they build any project before they invest like even a

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    single like literally a single hour of their coding time I think the first thing they do need to find out if there is actually a market for that and also when I say if there isn't actually a market for that like and that is very relative from Project to project but in whatever they are doing they need to find out the product Market fit without investing too much of their time without investing too much of their money you know that I would say like first step is

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    actually finding out and making product Market F like tangible okay prod so now Joe here's where I got because I agree with this I I also think hackathons might be slightly different and you let me know Joe so there's certain bounties you're either doing a bounty for proximity and chain abstraction or you're doing like B or whatever you are and if the Bounty is focus to one thing should you think a

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    product Market fit for that as well and is it always possible Joe what do you think from a developer point of view of a hackathon So It's Tricky it's it's uh it's definitely one of those things where one of the thing I've tried to harp on when talking to developers is that uh you you definitely need it needs to be something that people want if you want to win right like you can't just like slap together something and where it doesn't make sense like I'm just doing it just to do it because like Misha said I first

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    jumped on like the technology is there we understand how good the technology is so you're not here just to Showcase technology you're here to you know make a product of some sort even if it's the basic part of it like we're at the barebone because it's the hackathon um that's fine I I totally agree with this here where I'm like if you need to understand though like is this something that's going to fit into to the market is this something that's going to be even if like maybe like the my

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    submission isn't going to actually be the final product I need to be on that path I need to understand that I can get from A to B to C with this um to do that and so that's where I I love this hackathon for redacted because there's so many partners that I can integrate with to be able to start getting down that path of having both worlds product and partnership I completely agree like uh with Joe on

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    that one like uh like in the end I do think even in the early stages like your results your Market in some some way needs to still be tangible like you know your Market you know what you're building and if it's actually needed yeah but but but it not only needed right in my opinion it also should be wanted in the sense of what are we looking for as an industry not only from a user perspective which I'm talking even like what do we want to get out of this incredible technology that

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    we've now been dabbling in for years and years and new entrance are coming in and it's not as complex as it was before right we're actually able to use even fast off in sweat we just create social logins like web to and if you want to upgrade suddenly you can go to 12 wordss and if you want to upgrade completely complete paranoia you can go to cold wallet like things like this didn't

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    exist before and suddenly we can just Branch out from near to five edms E Bas optimism arbitrum and B&B I mean these possibilities were kind of Unthinkable before but what what I'm trying to get to is anyone who's coming in and building fresh especially on near give and all you know the the kind of tech stack that that's available and the infra that's already been made focus on

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    consumers focus on three main I would say metrics for Success that is active users active users and active users because that is really drive this industry um because nothing else will Propel us beyond what we've already been so we have to think on New Horizons we have to think new ways to innovate and you know we want to reach a billion it's time to get building you know oh dude

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    that's Vish if you wanna because I think that's so such a good idea like now Joe you said something a second ago you said you have to think of marketing if you want to win to hackathon what did you mean by that is it marketing to the judges marketing to the ecosystem what were when you said that if I could go a little deeper yeah so this obviously there's a strategy of like you know I guess kind of marketing to judges of

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    like knowing who your judges are right there's a little bit of gamesmanship there but as someone who has been a judge for multiple hackathons as well I will say I definitely give differential treatment to those that are thinking about what they built as something that can have an audience immediately uh because it shows to me that as a build that you are trying to not just again show off the tech you are trying you're

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    not just trying to Big Brain everything you're just like look at I understand that I can take something that is going to be used by other people and it doesn't have to be overly complex no one's asking you to build the next Uber during this we're just saying look you know have you given thought to who your user base is have you given thought to what is this actually solving for because that's where you're going to get

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    more points from you know like exactly that this is the stuff that I as a builder as a developer I'm always trying to think of right like when I'm doing my own products it's like who is going to use this if I am the only user of it well then that's a cool thing to build on the weekend and I can do that myself if I want to go actually go out there I need to think of who's the end the end

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    user I like 100% like agree on that one like who is the user like uh if you just think like most of the builders like I think it's like something which they have in their head it's like okay they're amazing Builders but not everything will have users yeah I agree I agree I see so so we've gotten some people like asking questions in the chat and stuff and someone said like open it up to marketers to be part of the hackathon

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    right then and they are can be right so in theory a marketer could have an idea connect with some devs and actually do a marketer approach first to this hackathon which I think would be a pretty cool way um are there like when when a two devs have zero thing is there like any resources that you would send them to first off or or maybe after this we put something together like that right like that I think is like an

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    interesting thing like absolutely like I've actually put down uh go to market kind of like a template uh if uh any of the like you know developers want it it's just like uh you fill it down like I think it's like a 16 17 lines it's like structured I have the methodology how they need to think about it and if it makes sense if they feel that that's going to be good for them as a builder but also let's say if they are building and we need to help them then we also

41. 20:51

    like you know we have like a kind of a scratchboard where we can start on and that like but in in the end goal that's so much like it actually helps them understanding their Market yeah I mean I can just uh verify that the V is not speaking here he actually showed him it to to me last week and the go-to market template where you kind of fill it in is not only for near or proximity or anyone else to kind of you know okay look over it it's actually for Founders Builders and devs to question

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    themselves right to see what am I doing right what is missing do I have a target audience do I have segmentation do I am I even thinking of which region or what kind of social status behind my users I'm going for so there's a a lot there to to really think of when you kind of implement that go to market strategy yeah and that that's good and near actually has put together a Founder Hub right and it has some markting stuff on there so I think I'm gonna try to add that to it because I think that could be

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    a really nice singular resource that devs can use um Joe U from yeah totally man I can't wait we'll make it look real nice we'll get into a designer make it like feel make it feel like a good deck I love it I love it amazing what they do so Joe what is like one thing if you could say that like from a dead point of view that they can do themselves without a marketer that could help push their project forward so it's sometimes hard to step out of yourself to do this but like I

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    think I think the simple thing is and even even if it's a to a stranger just like literally say even to yourself in the mirror show off what you're doing and say would I use this if I didn't build this would I use this is this something that I'm interested in like that's step one and and and if you say well I would say this is cool it's cool Tech but I'm not really going to make

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    use of it that answers your question right off the bat uh you I don't think we understand that like marketing is its own skill right that's why there are marketers there are Developer we understand that but I think it's totally okay to at least have that initial conversation with yourself of just like again like it's it's a it's a sanity check right like is this am I going to be able to have other people who are interested in it and you can be very successful with just hey maybe you just need a hundred people to really like it

46. 23:24

    that's awesome but if you yourself can't buy into it and I'll say this forget even marketing just as a builder if I don't feel passionate about if I can't see myself using it then I'm not going to continue to work on it with the same amount of enthusiasm as maybe I do for trying to win money so now I so that's where it is too of like then that passion will show judges will see that when you put together your little presentation to show here's what I built you know because you do have to make a

47. 23:54

    little presentation to show it off and all that stuff they will see if you are enthusiastic about it you know um how you talk about it on your video all those different things and so but that's the easiest way just ask yourself ask your friend ask your neighbor you know hey would you use this if I built it if they say I don't even know what that is then maybe that answers your question I think Joe came on to something really

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    important here and that is Passion when you're building anything whatever you're working with whe whether you want to you know start something from scratch or you want to scale something existing if you cannot find that desire and passion for why you're doing it then it's going to be very difficult to build something that's either valuable or useful to anyone else so I I reinforce that find that passion sure go for it nice Joe question for you with

49. 24:47

    hackathons is it like a big deal like should every hackathon participant like when they're building come up with like the name get the handle like all that or is that too early at a hackathon or do judges look at that like if you're presenting your thing and you have all the all the sort of like pieces together for a beginning stage of marketing does that at all maybe help or is it Superfluous work I mean I think you can

50. 25:10

    easily get into the weeds of that like I mean there's a lot of people who even you're not a developer I mean you have like you know two dozen domain names that you own that don't just sit there and like that's sometimes that's like the fun part of like coming up with that but um you don't necessarily need to have like what what it's going to be you don't have to stumble on that great thing uh but it is important that like

51. 25:35

    maybe you give any name to it again like it's just it's about like the enthusiasm showing of it like even if it's a terrible name at least I know that like if you tried to give it something and you tried to put some effort towards it of like you know you know this is my top widget you know great like it's all of those pieces come together you can always fix it down the road and you can hopefully hire a marketer and actually

52. 26:00

    you know go through that but uh yeah it's you don't have to be perfect and don't spend your time on that you're much better off spending your time on again the usability of it great you know you can call it whatever make sure that when someone opens up your app they know what to do a see M vishu that's what you were saying That's the top of this it's like absolutely another another thing that I would just uh chime in on here is um when you're presenting at a hackathon

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    specifically um you're coming up with an idea or you're building the foundation of a project or you're coming up with a proof concept don't try to solve all the problems in the world right don't become an indexer that's also Wormhole that's a bridge that's a DEX that's you know literally the opposite just remove everything that's not essential and just stick to the Bare Bones of it because that is usually

54. 26:56

    what's going to set you apart and what's going to make you also be remembered by judges and everybody in the audience totally that's great advice um V are you about you want to share your screen I don't want to but if you're ready yeah like I'm trying to figure it out like it's already in there but I can't see here's what we'll do well you're kind of I'll bring it to stage in just a second but while just real quick let's a couple

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    people shout now to the community because people are actually asking questions I like that you know on your mobile wallet let's go I'm with you there bunch of shilling can't you know LinkedIn good um dig that Joe is in the house which is awesome no no shout out and then Sarah for linkedin's asking real questions well we can pull up those a little later but we've answered one and then Sarah's refused work that she wasn't passionate about respect dude I I whenever any when I see real questions and comments I have to shout them out I

56. 27:48

    love it all right I mean that's the best right yeah totally um so shall we bring you are you ready to have your monitor on stage let's go yeah all right here we go there we go right this is something I yeah so this is actually something I built which like you know we can actually share it uh with the projects that are currently building like uh pretty much anything uh on the near so what I in this particular document this is kind of like you know like a

57. 28:20

    el5 kind of document so like uh I started with methodology how it should be for the teams you you know what they need to look for what's their valid preposition what is like their positioning which at least in their head you know what's like eventually their marketing strategy as well but one of the key things here is like once you go to the methodology that I built and then you just like a do your research about your project about your prospective uh

58. 28:52

    you know uh your end users and everything then you could just fill out this form in some way right like because uh it's going to be good for you as a company but it's also just like you know very clear template on what you should do and what you should know about your market so I built this you know just like uh internally but at the same time you know I also did uh because I understand a lot of thatb three founders

59. 29:23

    don't have that much time or bandwidth for the marketing side of things so I also did like a Bare Bones framework so but this is the Bare Bones is actually the bare bones in my opinion before you start building anything you need to know this plan you need to know your prospective uses and you need to know how do you reach them Vish this is this is legit now here's my question and maybe this will get to in a bit getting into Ai and

60. 29:54

    marketing but you could take all that info hook it up into an agent Jama make Vish Ai and then everybody can just like bring that absolutely right and then you just can then it could almost walk people through a process as you answer your way through it specifically from your content absolutely so then I mean like that like qually like like my whole vision and that's actually like completely different topic about like AI like all the knowledge I have all the papers I have written in the past three

61. 30:24

    years we can have like a local llm and it just based on marketing and then that llm will get paid by other llms to give the info when people are trying to build out on your exactly then we're in the user owned internet World um so um absolutely yeah Joe what do you think about what you just saw V drop there from a Dev point of view like well I mean that stuff is great because there's like things that are nice and organized and like and follow I mean it's like a script right I can just it I don't I don't have to be a marketer

62. 30:56

    I don't have to that doesn't have my specialty to do that and again to me and something that I've talked about in a lot of the different shows that I've been doing for devs has really been about like um taking time to just think is so important and a document like that allows you to just do that mental work of let me go through all of this let me think before I start coding let me really go through all all of the the ins and outs project that actually makes

63. 31:28

    sense and has a market right yes exactly exactly because I'm guilty of this and I think all devs are sometimes like you just want to just like start building and you're just coding and next thing you know I'm two weeks in of coding and I'm not really sure where things are going and so absolutely I I love anything that's going to structure my thought process I'm here for like Joe I'm happy to share that template with you like and also pretty much like anywhere like anyone here or

64. 31:57

    or like any prospective projects that they currently building for hack toown or not I'm happy to share that template can someone build an AI agent using on btia using your info and get a bounty for helping people Market in the hackathon am I getting to Inception here is that is this possible I think like it's a bit exceptionally but uh Inception I think that J maybe you share little more on how you envisioned because user owned AI is you know it's a very interesting uh approach but it can

65. 32:37

    definitely feel far off uh from like what is the use case how do I interact with it as a regular user um why does it Empower near in projects like sweat and others that are big players on near but you were talking before about like how you envision this actually coming about as a use case maybe you can go into more detail on that totally and I think sometimes it's like the terminology and as marketers it's trying to figure out how to Market so there's a there are

66. 33:03

    people at near Mark in in marketing that are working on trying to get the exact language down so I don't want to front run anything there but what I can say is I and you can watch any of the near AI office hours that's really where I get a lot of my info they they share lots of stuff on there but when I think of n's great vision of user owned internet right name TBD but right now just think of that like a user owned internet a lot of the world is going to be prompt-based not so much site nap based or if you

67. 33:29

    want to get even way headier it's sort of apps will be built in real time as your prompts go it'll be interesting that's like down the road a little bit but I think what is interesting from like say a marketing perspective is that projects will be able to think about users in a much quicker simpler way where can a user use this through prompts and they can build on that end so I do wonder if the uxui will be a little bit more covered in that area so that's sort of like one thing but then you know I don't want to front run too

68. 34:01

    much you know what I mean but that that's how I look at it like you got this highlevel user owned internet three substacks which is AI chain abstraction nears way with like chain signatures and all that and then blockchain and so most users probably won't even know that's going on though right like Misha you run sweat how much do users know what like the back end of everything well you know most users

69. 34:26

    don't understand the back end of of what you know the near protocol supports we have you 20 million installs we have 3 million monthly active users roughly one and a half million monthly onchain active users uh at the current rate so the scale is is a lot larger than most crypto projects right and yeah it's still but it's still only the Inception sweat has only been around for two years but the importance is to understand who

70. 34:53

    are we on boarding just like you said like most of the people in sweat either are relatively new to crypto or completely new to crypto or yet okay wow this is a really interesting kind of movement economy project I want to dabble in it um so we keep communication simple straightforward direct uh of course involve our Dow so we have the world's most active Dow which is I think is one of the coolest things that happening on near you know we every month or two we have a a new vote a proposal that Garners 150 to 200,000

71. 35:26

    individual votes because because we're mobile only we can eliminate Bots right we don't have any Bots because it's just it's a physical device it's not a you know it's not a replicable bot infrastructure um but I think in the end it's all about abstracting way even distracting way like you know just remove all remove all the complexity no need you know yes it's okay to say that you're on blockchain

72. 35:55

    it's okay to speak about web 3 even crypto but that shouldn't be the the core message the core message should be I have something useful for you I have something valuable to you it's going to change this in your life or it's going to change that in your life you know and that I think that's the that's the the most important key message I'm clipping that because you just gave some really

73. 36:19

    clear marketing yes right there that's a that's a one minute clip that I think every person should listen to that was very L it they they need need to a rabbi preach yeah so yeah yeah half my family ises sweat and none of them are talk we're not talking the uh blockchain about it you know no one no one's Maxi on that yes that's really cool so may I may I let me just ask you both a question just because we've got a couple minutes and I'm curious on your things on how

74. 36:52

    you think AI will help one how do you think AI will affect marketing but two how do you think it will help en a dev's maybe easier ways to do some stages of marketing I mean I would say like with the current state wa you know what you go first I have something gonna put on my thought because it's going to be profound go okay now so like uh what of the key things for the the current state of AI and the marketing you know if you

75. 37:23

    are a marketer or if you're a Founder you need to to know what to actually ask you need to know the questions to be able to get an answer that makes sense so at the very beginning of anything you actually need to know the questions to ask once you have that much easier the AI can make a plan make a framework you know make a proper strategy but you also need to know what you're asking and

76. 37:55

    that's what like it like produces them right yeah I I agree totally uh Misha what do you got man I'm not sure you're ready for this let's go I think that the question is skewed it's not how will AI help Builders become marketers in a more efficient way it's the the answer to this is actually AI on near and other protocols clearly near is ahead of the C AI will actually assist communicators and marketers to become

77. 38:34

    deps and I think that's the most interesting part where Ai and prompts to build eventually become so easy and so efficient that literally anyone who has an idea on how to tap into a new market or you know a new economic model or you know a new product of scale can build it using AI prompts on near and I think that's a really really interesting uh value problem so that is I think

78. 39:06

    ultimately where a lot of the user owned internet goes right and uh you know there's already things happening in that same realm but Joe I don't know maybe oh he might be off for a second but when he comes back because I do dog yeah his his pfp is up so I don't think he's I think he's out but I okay so before he gets back so I think your point of view like I ideas with prompts to building is

79. 39:29

    going to increase but I do think that'll actually tighten the relationship between maybe two people because I I think even if you have an AI developer build something that's still good to have a Deb like I think there's still a lot of knowledge with just like how these systems go especially when I talk with Joe and I'm like whoa like the depth of that is big I think especially

80. 39:46

    for like the short term that's not going to like quickly be swapped but sure I'm thinking definitely long-term Horizon yeah I mean but it but with these AI updates every year the long term's not like decade anymore it's like years you know maybe five four but but you never know like with the with the current like you know progression of Technology could be way faster dude some of the stuff I've seen I'm like whoa like yeah way

81. 40:11

    faster for sure so here's my question for like this the AI aspect oh wait Joe you're here back sorry this is a big this is a big question for you because you and I have had many conversations on this after a couple whiskies this is where we go well will I just be able to AI prompt my way into Dev or will it be Dev like is that I mean within the short term or even long term what do you think from a

82. 40:36

    Dev point of view who's in the weeds building sure great question um so in the short term no I don't I don't I don't think so so where I the problem that I see as someone as an experienced developer is that you can do the basics you can certainly prompt your way into the basics you can do um proof of Concepts no problem you could do basic stuff I think you know pretty much without issue to deploy anything that's actually production worthy you need to have that basis and

83. 41:09

    knowledge and I think this goes into some of the stuff that probably in any industry that it's really very much a tool and so I think I would even say like from a marketing standpoint I can probably get a really great marketing plan from an llm the execution part of it really then come down to it and so I think that's where we're at now too with developers where I know like if I did not know what I know I would have

84. 41:37

    shipped code from an llm that is buggy that is possibly allows for malicious behavior or that maybe just doesn't work right um I mean so many times I've had to tell it like no you're wrong so we're still there it's going to get better it's going to get improved but I really think this goes to my larger discussion that I really believe in of like I have to be able to have product and vision in mind in architecture I might not need to be the best coder anymore and I'm certainly not

85. 42:09

    the best developer but I think I understand one of the best show pretty legendary but I think understanding product and architecture and those type of things are really become with the skill set that then tie into like right now AI makes me a faster coder and it makes me more efficient I probably can do the work now with multiple people where before let's let's say let's say if I was a 3X before now maybe I'm a 10x right so like we'll call it that but now

86. 42:42

    it's like but that's but I still I still need to do the work I can't just type in some prompts and let it go so that's where I think people who are not programmers might fall into the Trap of like oh look all great code it's spit out but if you don't know how to really implement it you don't know what to look for um we're running the risk of having issues long term yeah probably will will take my job long term well I

87. 43:12

    mean the AI agent layer is coming the agentic framework is like it's it's being built right I don't know if you guys are looking around on X and stuff are you seeing the AI agents that people are dropping oh my God that the ter the terminal of Truth oh my God that's one is unhinged yeah but near has a couple I mean near inter AI they've got a couple but yeah they're not bad they're not

88. 43:35

    perfect but they're a lot better than they were three months ago I mean I've been testing AI agents for marketing purposes for a several months now and some still feel like old chat GPT 35 you know they're like hey how's it going empowering revolutionary cooled product these newer ones they're doing something slightly differently they're messing with fonts they're using capitalization they're they're tweaking things in a way that I

89. 43:58

    think making intentional mistakes to S yeah so I almost think like I see a vision and tell me if you guys think this is something Joe as well every project will have a near or not I'd like to think near but every near project will have a near AI agent I me we we are a bit biased so it's okay well the thing I love about near is that it's not a maxi chain that's why I think n's like

90. 44:22

    greatest strength is that it's not a maxi chain it plays well with all chains its goal is to like help I mean it's strange that you say that Jared because I was just thinking as I was listening to Joe like I'm you know yes AI is is an important factor but it is still being built it's going to take time yeah even if it's upgrading on its own capacity and it's doubling the speed it's still far away in in that

91. 44:47

    kind of real practical sense of of uh being able to be useful but chain abstraction that's where I'm a maxi yeah I'm not a near Maxi I'm not Bitcoin Max for sure you know it's been in my core for a while but in terms of chain abstraction maxy that's definitely where I come because chain abstraction allows the multi-chain experience to be the most seamless ridiculously simple idea you have one wallet One account you

92. 45:19

    use one gas token to transact on all chains like come on yeah the I think the superpower and Joe I tell me if I'm right I think n's account model being like it's like truly like the superpower of this thing right yeah not talked about near enough I'm always shouting it but I think it's truly changing it's allowing Misha for sweat to do his thing like that that whole project works that way in V like

93. 45:43

    yeah totally I mean that's you know again one of the things that we trying to keep harping on like there are other chains that are doing things that are chain abstractive like and there are other things that are like that the account model on near is second to none uh and it really opens up your opportunity when we talk about again product and product Market fit and who your users are the ability to be able to onboard people and not have them to feel like it's crypto and not have to do all

94. 46:07

    this other stuff really is a superpower and that's the way that's what makes it special dude like I remember like two days ago when I was in the office and we talked about self validation in different ways now I think like for any project or like uh I'm not talking about like early stage at this point I'm talking about like a products we currently building have some traction like in the end of today somehow you

95. 46:36

    need to make your users feel special and like that message has to be personal because that's how you build retention which most of the projects that's completely forget about yeah for sure I mean you know there's one thing we're talking about having a market and finding who are your users but how do you retain those users how do you engage those that's the main and eventually if you're going to have a sustained business model how would you monetize a

96. 47:07

    subset of those users as well and how you're going to continue to grow that way and and one of the things that we were discussing the other day was uh you know we have to get users to feel recognized uh not only have something that's useful and valuable but also somewhat validated whether you know it's in movement then it's you know could be a badge or a you know streak or something that has you know you've been able to to receive or be rewarded for what you've been able to to accomplish

97. 47:39

    but this can of course be replicated and scaled um on many other businesses absolutely completely agree like on that me sure yeah what's really great to have you guys on this space right now right is you're both lead marketing so your mindset is from that perspective right the the nitty-gritty details of it maybe aren't as necessary for Dev builders in a hackathon as much until their project gets going like the content marketing let's start building out like a a you know a like a hub and spoke model and start driving engagement

98. 48:11

    that might be a couple steps after what you guys are really hitting at in Joe as well is to do some thinking before you build about these key points that marketing yes walks through and then know your Market you know like and if there are n aus to actually use that project exactly and then soon we'll have a Vish or vishall AI that will have this help guide people through this in the very beginning dude I really think we should do it I think I think it's called Chad jpt now no but see here's the

99. 48:43

    difference so you could do Chach totally but if it's hyperfocused with you with them couple apis I don't could be kind of neat but um I I I would love to do that and then and then what we do is we make it Twitter and anyone can ask your on Twitter it can ask you questions so they just at you or at your AI and say hey help me start my marketing thing and you have all these threads in the last five

100. 49:08

     years in web 3 I've written like over like 300 articles over like know shits and enough papers I think uh we could actually make an on that oh dude see this is what idea for hackathon and Joe someone's got some question in here that we'll send them to about building an agent with mosson stuff uh there will be a spaces right after this with metap pool but also you can go to devhub

101. 49:32

     there's a lot of spaces there to give them some focus and you can even the Masa team's super on point you can ask them they'll jump in and help you as well um so that's it so now that we're kind of wrapping up here at the top of the hour it let's like do our takeaways for like devs at a hackathon what would you say to them to kind of recap what we've talked about here that they can do uh Vish let start with you and we'll end with me show with you and thene

102. 49:58

     I think like I'll start with uh they need to do their need like literally their research that if there's actually a market for that that's like a number one thing they needs to know that once they have that they need to figure out if it's actually a qualified product Market fit you know so if there's 100 users which will use a product great for you but that is not a qualified PMS like you need to focus that people will keep coming back to it so somehow you need to

103. 50:33

     understand your product you need to understand your marketing and you need to absolutely nail down user Behavior cool uh Misha if you've got a second before you got before we uh wrap you got anything for sure for sure I think you know something we spoke about at the beginning of the stream was you know find a problem to solve right like you need to to really dig deep and usually that comes from something within you right or within your your your group of uh you know your dev's community or

104. 51:06

     your friends what are you passionate about and then trying to solve that for a larger group of people and once You' hit that mail then you have to think not only what Vish was talking about who are my users where do they come from what ages do they what gender which you know social status which regions so on and so forth but also how do I scale this meaning can I go from 10 to 100 to a

105. 51:32

     th000 to 10,000 users and can I continue that way until 10 million and in our case it's the opposite where we're you know currently at 20 million installs and our goal is 500 million and a billion so I mean the same thing is the same questions that anyone who's starting out is something that we're you know still working on and that is scalability oh man that that's wonderful like yeah that was dude mea you got such a way to like organize thoughts that I

106. 52:02

     can easily understand and Joe any last things for devs and marketing before we uh drop the animation at the end no no no I I can't follow that me that was that was great I got the that last part though um come on Joe we don't care about the dogs let's go yeah no I listen just uh I hope people learn something from this uh you know it's all about thinking thinking things through before you just just build so be thoughtful and have fun building still time to sign up for redacted online hackathon and make sure you there you

107. 52:34

     can also sign up for redacted the event in Bangkok November 9th through 11th tickets are free space is limited and it's filling up so definitely see you all there appreciate you guys for uh taking the CH time to be in help some marketing stuff for the hackathon and uh we'll see you on the you know the good old on X all right bye