Orchestration: The New Multi Chain DX - Dean Tribble

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1. 0:08

   good morning everyone awake now oh wait okay so as he said is this a little too loud am I too loud am I good so I'm dean trible of agoric as you said and um uh welcome to the the the uh the uh last segment of chain abstraction here I'm going to talk about what we bring to chain abstraction um for from the agoric platform now first though so agoric is a uh layer one blockchain built on Cosmos SDK Comet bft you know the sort of the that battle tested proof of State platform with IBC native so

2. 0:41

   easily easy access to everything that's reachable across the interchain um and to bring smart contract programming in JavaScript and it's not just JavaScript the language but JavaScript is the number one language with the number one development environments because it enables uh component Frameworks it enables easy ACC extension and growth and integration of other systems and so

3. 1:03

   it is used to to orchestrate trillions of dollars every day of you know of systems in in in the uh uh the mainstream economy that's the technology that we now bring to web 3 right okay so we have as a group succeeded right we've got at some very important Milestones on the way to you know integrating um uh blockchain into the world of uh the the world's economy we've got layer ones

4. 1:34

   we've got interoperability we've got layer twos we've got modular we have succeeded in making hundreds or now thousands as people are rolling out these modular systems of these independent blockchain assets and services on the different chains and with interoperability technology right we were able to connect them and that is something that you know three years ago two years ago people didn't believe was possible and now we've got that broadly connected where new chains are coming online with the

5. 2:05

   success of of the modular thesis we've got smaller chains coming online more quickly all with some level of connectivity to the rest of the world and that's resulted in you know $2.5 trillion dollar plus of liquidity across all these different chains yes a big chunk of that is is is Bitcoin but is of course you you saw people talking earlier you know Bitcoin being a a a asset that can underpin lots of other connected chains is a you know is a very important element of of a future economy okay but we are not done right this

6. 2:40

   success of modular brings us a new era a new set of challenges that we are now tackling and that's where chain abstraction comes in right so we've got this chaos of all of these chains we've got thousands of chains that will all be clamoring for users attention solving bits and pieces of this puzzle and what that does is it results in fragmented liquidity it gets you no clear entry

7. 3:03

   point right for a user coming in for a new developer coming in for a web two party coming in thousands of entry points is equivalent to zero entry points screw this I'm going to go back and use Robin Hood right you know that that that that's not a solution to people this is like the early days of the internet where there was lots and lots of independent Services you could go to but you could not use a Consolidated app as I said to order a ride or order a hamburger to be

8. 3:27

   delivered right and so that results in very poor user experience right now in web 2 if I if you've got usdc burning a hole in your pocket and you want to go get staked Tio Celestia token which was one of the recent big uh uh uh launches that was part of that last phase of modular yeah turns out that requires you to do three signatures on four or five different chains and it's a you know two three hour sort of ordeal to hand carrier token you know over Hill Andale

9. 3:58

   cross a few Bridges right you in a bucket in order to then go and uh stake it at the um uh at the chain of your choice right and so that poor user experience means that yeah it's accessible to a small number of people but these are not solutions that would be accessible to the rest of the world and so what do users actually want right well they want seamless access to all the services and all the assets independent of their blockchain like I asked earlier right when you last ordered a car with with Uber oryt or

10. 4:28

    when you asked ordered a hamburger you know did you care about what cloud service they were running on or whether they were using Shopify or WordPress or whatever the heck it is the answer is no you didn't care at all users don't care about the infrastructure challenges that we have what we need to do is provide the user experiences they want right and that's seamless access to all these things independent of the chain infrastructure underneath and they want

11. 4:51

    simple singular entry points right they want an application that they use as application it's not first go get this wallet then go get this thing then put money here then go through that exchange and then onboard this way and finally use an application they've got an entry point they've got an app they want to be able to use it right and they want those simple experiences at span chains right users again they're not going to care about salana versus Cosmos versus agoric versus osmoses or whatever they just

12. 5:16

    want to be able to you know buy that you know buy that token buy that nft participate in that airdrop okay and so so that's you know starting from the crypto chaos that we are currently at which is a success right getting to the point where all of these projects are starting to launch where that modular and and interoperability has gotten us to is a big win but that is the chaos that we now need to sort out in order to

13. 5:41

    provide these uniform chain abstraction you know user scenarios um uh in order for the for for us to succeed as an industry going out to mainstream okay so let's take a simple example now at at last chain abstraction day I went through a code example of you know that burning a usdc burning a hole in your pocket and you want to get uh staked Tia but so you've got Stak Tia and now you have realized that uh there's an air drop from stride coming nice juicy air drop that you want to participate in and so you would like to

14. 6:15

    push button and move from your state Tia that is all locked up but you don't care you know and have that turn into um uh liquid stake Tia on stride so you can be in that airdrop and somewhere in there you know how does that work well you know yeah so that's what I want to be able to do is go from the one side this is the user's perspective that's what I got that's what I want right very straightforward push the button and make

15. 6:39

    it happen Okay so that means I need to undelegated my Tis so I have to go to a user interface click that oh wait wait now I go to the wallet and I approve that right okay now I oh uh I have to wait 21 days so 21 day all right I'll put a reminder on my calendar and only after that 21 days if I'm still in town and not on vacation or a conference or preparing for a talk or whatever it is um now I will go to the Tia app and I will transfer my Tia over to the stride

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    chain whatever you know however that works oh and I have to approve that in my wallet you know which thankfully in this scenario I can use just the one wallet but if that was on another chain then I have to use both you know metamask and Kepler or or you know leap wallet or what have you right but now I've approved that so the transfer will happen and now 20 seconds later 5 minutes later 15 minutes later I don't know you know at some time later I will

17. 7:36

    then go back into the application and say yes please take it yes I need oh and yes I also need stride token in order to pay the fees in order to make this happen right so so I so I have you're right I have oversimplified this for your convenience right um yeah yeah how many users do you think are going to do that you know how many users are going to say yeah okay so so the driver I want I'm going to pick my driver that's the one I want dropping off my my my hamburger oh oh and use this charging mechanism yeah no no

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    people don't do that right they want that simple thing of I got this push button and get me that thing over there right okay so let's talk about oh yes sorry and that liquid staking it had to be approved as well yes and needed the fees okay so today's ux as you can imagine is cumbersome and it's not only the ux turns out the developer experience in order to produce even this stuff is really hard right you know what

19. 8:32

    you've got is a bunch of asynchronous services a bunch of asynchronous assets and you need to program across those and that's what we call orchestration right you know there are orchestration programming languages in web 2 the number one orchestration language that orchestrates trillions of dollars every day is Javascript in you know Salesforce in In Bloom big Bloomberg terminals controlling all this trading that's how

20. 8:56

    people wire together all these asynchronous systems in order to deliver consistent straightforward user experiences and that's the kind of thing we need um you know and it doesn't doesn't necessarily need there are different approaches that's great we can talk about those offline but this is the thing that we need to do is we need the capabilities to build userfriendly apps that coordinate these ass Services asynchronously independent of the

21. 9:19

    blockchains they're on right okay so I always like to give a code example you know I was one of the early Cipher punks Cipher punks write code and that makes it really more concrete right so let's start by the first miracle of the platform and this is all going to be in JavaScript this is a smart this is code that would run in a smart contract on the agoric blockchain which is connected

22. 9:42

    with IBC and GMP and and and all the various other uh connectivity things growing over time to lots of other blockchains so here starting from Celestia which is just a JavaScript object that gives me access to the services on the celestial blockchain that are reachable of RB I'm going to reach out and say well in this particular case I want to grab my main account right I've got I've got an

23. 10:05

    account that has my Stak Celestia in it right and I'll come back to that in a moment and then I'm going to reach out to stride and turns out you know this is get or make so I'm going to reach out to stride and I'm going to make me a new account in order to do liquid staking right and I'm just calling it that for my convenience and what's going to happen is over IBC I'm sending a message

24. 10:27

    and what I get back is a newly created account on stride on behalf of this user and so the first miracle here is that and that comes from IBC it comes from interchain accounts that the IBC people drove out there and and that's just an amazing bit of Technology as part of the interoperability it's really nice to be able to build on that and that lets us connect to all these different chains but the platform absorbs that up very

25. 10:53

    nicely where the first step here is I can await that right so I reach out it might take 5 Seconds one block it might take 5 minutes because stride was busy because it or sorry yeah stride was busy because it was overwhelmed by by how well it was doing but eventually the answer comes back and what I've got here is a single operation in the blockchain that is now multi- Block in oper you

26. 11:16

    know take that that spans multiple blocks right you can't do any multi- blockchain a um activity without it being something that spans multiple blocks we just absorb that naturally in the standard JavaScript execution model where I can reach out and what I get back is I I'm just going to wait and when the answer comes back then this code will proceed right so I waited to get the the celestial one came back then

27. 11:42

    I went on to the next one I waited to get the stride one and I could use the concurrency stuff in JavaScript to do those simultaneously it doesn't you know that's beyond the scope of this but so that's the first miracle is wait for that to happen and then react to it proceed once it has and then that I stride there is I get back a JavaScript object in JavaScript that millions of programmers understand that is the only

28. 12:05

    object on the planet running inside of this blockchain that can reach out and control that newly created LST account on stride that I created on behalf of the user that made this request right so what I've got is simple Access Control in an object-oriented fashion where I've got this object in this smart contract that controls that remote account and I could trade it to someone something else I could hand it off to another contract

29. 12:31

    I could invoke a library that used it on my behalf all those kinds of things and know that all of the security was maintained and the only thing that control the assets on that new account is this smart contract here and what it what it allows tax so that turns out to be really nice all right let's proceed so what I'm not going to say is ask that account on celesia because remember I said that one ICA Celestia

30. 12:55

    that already existed and had my stake Celestia on it so I'm going ask it what allegations have I done what staking have I done with those assets get that information back I have to do that because that's the way Cosmos works I have to reach out and ask it and we can use icq or whatever infrastructure lets us do that query from the smart contract pull that that information back and once that information comes back right once

31. 13:16

    the await is succeeded the answer comes back to this smart contract running on chain a few blocks later um now it's going to say okay all of those delegations I want to UND delegate them right and there might be more than one and this might turn into multiple requests depending on the underlying infrastructure you don't care it's just an abstraction it's part of this nice orchestration API reach out and UND delegate all of those and wait for that to finish right so if that finishes in

32. 13:40

    one black grade if it takes five minutes that's that's just fine uh oh right UND delegation that takes 21 days right because this is bonded tokens inside of the staking infrastructure so this will sit there and 21 days later in most Cosmos chains and in some chains it might be two weeks some chains it might be a day whatever it is but 21 days later in the in in the uh Celestia case

33. 14:03

    this will this await here will proceed and this operation in the smart contract will proceed right so we will then do the next thing similar pattern reach out find out how much I got right I had a bunch of delegations yes the total of this should add up to that but let's find out you reach out how much do I have how much Tia do I have that I can use and I'm now going to once I know what that answer is transfer it over to

34. 14:27

    my stride account and this is transferring it from ICA Celestia from that account that I have the unique control over here on Celestia over to that newly created account that I created up online to there on stride so I'm just take you know this smart contract completely without my you know having to interact with it created an account on stride undid my my staking sent it over to the account edit controls on my behalf on stride and once

35. 14:54

    that finishes it reaches out to stride and invokes a custom operation available again over IBC um to do the liquid staking and so 21 days later after I started all of this the liquid staking on my behalf happens I now have my tokens all liquid staked and all of my airdrop uh participation in the stri aird drop Will begin automatically for me on my behalf and all this happened with one action one approval on the way have I run out of time have I already taken my 15 minutes oh okay good um okay

36. 15:24

    so what are some key things that multiblock that async away that's a unique feature of the aor you know these are unique features of the agoric execution platform of being able to bring true JavaScript programming um and true sort of durable persistent longli processes for smart contracts is that ability to do that a single operation that spans not just a few blocks but can span 21 days covering your unstaking and run consistently overtime reliably even

37. 15:53

    in a contract that might get upgraded during that process right you know 21 days is a really long time you might want to fix bugs add features whatever it is having that be able to coexist with these Long Live processes is fabulous right um it lets you have have contracts that are truly reactive right reach out ask a question how many delegations are there oh there's too many I'm going to break that up and do that over time or that's fine let me do

38. 16:17

    all let me do one request let me respond to the conditions that I see on chain asynchronously over time being able to you know ask for something to happen and then when it comes back the contract reacts to that is really really powerful and unique and then finally and this is where it gets back to that power of JavaScript the reason why JavaScript is the number one programming language on the planet um is because it's easy to do these Frameworks and it's easy to do

39. 16:43

    Frameworks that are extensible by thirdparty developers right so you know timers is one of the simple extensions that folds neatly into this acing thing instead of waiting for that guy to respond I will wait for you know I know the the unstaking time is 21 days I'll wait for 21 days and then start asking so are you done yet are we there yet are we there yet right you know I will ask

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    in a exponential decay and I can hide that nicely behind a library so that you know so I can extend the system I can extend the system with timers where I start something and instead of waiting for a response I'm just waiting for three minutes right and it's straightforward to do all of that onchain without a bunch of offchain services right so that kind of asynchronous integration of third part party libraries gives you vastly

41. 17:29

    improved extensibility over what you can do in other things as part of this overall orchestration API so that means that you know same way that I add timers adding over this communication mechanism at use of GMP reach over I you know reach over IBC out to Axel use Axel's GMP to be able to reach filecoin or or eth or or what have you reach over to to um uh other systems to be able to to

42. 17:54

    access hyperlane and provide these abstractions so that contracts can smoothly reach out over hyperlane or Axel off to to you know cell or or filecoin or what have you is really really really powerful it enables developers to keep enhancing the infrastructure that we're all building on and that's how you get sort of that exponential growth that you saw in JavaScript in npm and react and all

43. 18:17

    these things right so we want the same thing in in in in in um in web 3 which is what we're going for okay so orchestration is something that leverages all the stuff that people have already built right existing native tokens liquid state tokens LP positions all that sort of thing those are very you know those are stuff that are easy to absorb into orchestration the services The Lending protocols right the infrastructure all of those are things that they benefit from having more

44. 18:48

    services that can use them right assets if you can move them around easily and automatically that's more powerful lending platforms they want to be able to programmatically lend a token over here bring it over to some other service in order to spend it that makes it more valuable to them all the things that we're already building that are reachable by any of these interoperability protocols become part of orchestration and benefit from it and

45. 19:11

    many of them can use it in order to enhance their enhance their services and so we will be doing in Q2 a hackathon focused on orchestration right with prizes that are specifically around building cross-chain applications you know either for existing services or for new applications with you know and it's virtual hackathon spread over 45 days so people can really do some focused uh valuable new kinds of this new class of

46. 19:35

    application and so we've got you know stable coin yield aggregators people are working on where you or sorry yes where you can have something would dynamically move assets among ye among yield opportunities for stable coins on different chains right it's not just about being able to have one chain that can do some things it's about having use cases that span chains we've got where you can lock stuff up on the chain it's on rather than having it to bring it

47. 19:59

    over to our chain have it be collateral there you'd be able to lock stuff on their local chain and then mint on a third party chain so lock you know do ydx on its chain and then mint on some other chain or something like that right staking managers right you saw the the code to be able to do unstake and then 21 days later do something else you could also have it redeem rewards restake half of it take another half to build up a position of a new token you know go off and buy Bitcoin pay out in

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    order to and in order to be able to cash out in usdc whatever it is right being able to have these Rich things much richer programmatic things that that that that leverage and use the assets on the chains that we've built is really really empowering for developers and then finally swap maximizer right if you can asynchronously swap locally do you really care you know if it's going to be one block later you really care if it's assets that are local or if you're just

49. 20:48

    reaching out and trading on osmosis what you care about is the accessible liquidity not the liquidity that happens to be on the same chain that you're executing on and so being able to have have things that are accessible across the interchain be thought of as the economy that you can reach that is again very empowering now so so we you know the these are all things where people are already building stuff that's part of uh that is uh part of orchestration that is part of these chain abstraction

50. 21:15

    Visions what you need is this orchestration to be able to pull them all together together to deliver these simple user experiences for us so please come help join and uh join building the multichain you know come orchestrate the the vision that you for the future here so thank you very much