DevHub Live 3 - Guest: Jordan fro Mintbase

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

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   me what you want what you want what you want what you want what you want what you want what you want n

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   hey welcome to another episode of devhub Live uh we got a great one today uh one I'm really excited about uh we have the coming in here to talk about everything that they're doing around their templates and so here at devhub we have a mission of you know onboarding and engaging developers but one of the questions we always ask like how do you get started where are we going to actually go from here once I learn about near and want to start building and mint

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   base who has been around since the very beginning are and always been much more than an nft Marketplace has really started to get into the de developer onboarding game through their templates and I'm super excited to bring on Jordan from mbase who's going to talk about it uh Jordan himself is a longtime Nan he has a huge history as can talk about probably so many things and do probably a whole eight hours of episodes uh with Jordan but we're going to start and talk about M Bay and their template

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   specifically maybe we'll get into some other stuff uh but I'm super excited about this episode today so let's bring uh Jordan up hey thanks for having me super excited to be here yeah thanks Jord thanks Jordan so again yeah there's I mean you obviously have you personally have a long history and so does mint base uh but maybe let's talk a little bit about right off the bat of you know what is

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   mint based today yeah so I think that when people think of mint based the first thing that comes to mind is kind of the marketplace because that's a lot of people's touch point with the crypto ecos system in general is kind of nfts and they've seen the mint based Marketplace in the past um and that's kind of been the the home and landing page where a lot of people encounter mint Bas first um but behind

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   that is actually a ton of developer tooling and that Marketplace has just kind of served as a um as an example of what you can build on top of mint based technology so under the hood there's mint based JS um allowing you to use JavaScript to do a bunch of nft things um and then also the the graphql indexer um that allows you to get at all the data and um those tools are what enable the marketplace and then because people

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   kind of don't know about a lot of the developer tooling behind the scenes that enable the marketplace we started the templates initiative to make it um a lot more visible and obvious that all of this technology is available and that developers can easily reach for it and find success like right off the bat um just as easy as cloning a template and seeing that oh now I can have people log in with a wallet or now I can have people like um using digital assets with

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   their uh with their like um stripe accounts or whatever other stores they they want to connect it to so that's what we're doing with the templates is making it even more obvious and easy for developers to grab this thing if they're coming from a web 2 background or I mean hopefully even creators who don't necessarily have a development background can use the tools um but then continuing to push on you know under the

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   hood having all these developer tools available and um through that you know enable the the next billion users is the goal yeah no that that's really exciting I I'd love one thing I've always really appreciated about mbase is you guys have always take an approach of how do we simplify this for any type of user while the team is very technical and there's some really top Minds over at mint base everything was always geared towards like the most basic user case and so it seem like

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    that's always been like the approach am I right on that absolutely yeah and that was one of the things that honestly first got me into the near ecosystem was seeing back in the day the create base Guild was a thing and the way that creators were so supported and the active Community around it made it obvious that Bas his heart was in the right place um it was there for enabling

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    creators for the decentralization um and you know they've stayed true to that and Through the Years um you know it's been awesome watching the growth and all the cool things being built and yeah it's a real pleasure to join the team and um help line up all that cool stuff that's been built with with users going forward and and drive the growth there yeah for sure so uh that's a great transition can you

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    talk a little bit about um your background in near I know there's so much you could go into you don't have to go the whole history but maybe just a little bit of like where you kind of got started and then now like your role of like what does it mean to like run growth at Min base yeah yeah so um my like tip just tow in the water of how I got into crypto was through the kod art and Tech nonprofit that I've run for over 12 years now and that is an entity

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    that my co-founder Brun and I started to help um technologists get comfortable with the idea of creation and play and help artists get comfortable with the idea of Technology as a material and we would throw a yearly festival and when Co hit we dove into nfts and found a lot of success with it but then we also had a lot of feedback from our artists that you know crypto was hard and weird and kind of felt like a scam and all these other things so um I did a lot of research on different um platforms

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    chains Etc and really liked what I saw around near and with the like the mint base uh crowd and so brought a lot of artists over to the ecosystem through that um at the time I was working at Google um shipping material design and then through kind of Dipping my toes in the water with um kod and mint base and um these uh near nfts uh found an opportunity in the near eco ecosystem to start building out Dow tooling and

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    enabling communities like koday but doing it on like a much larger scale where you know my my effort for impact could could go 100x if I was building platforms that could enable communities like uh my own so um took the Deep dive at that point uh joined uh near Foundation full-time and built out astrod Dow which is um which was the leading Dow tooling um on near for a while and now it has evolved into Astra da and then also at near Foundation was

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    part of kind of a Skunk Works where um had free reign to try out a lot of different things and one of the most successful experiments that came from that was um tank which was uh early nft tooling that allowed people to do generative collections on near so um through astrod down and tank have built a lot of infra in the near ecosystem um at at the peak we had over two billion locked in Astro Dow and we've seen hundreds of millions um through tank contracts so um happy to bring all that

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    to men face all that experience and drive similar growth there yeah that that's that's I mean you certainly have been around I think one of the first uh nft mints I got involved with and and just did as a as an end user was definitely through tank uh and just I think what people sometimes forget or take for granted is you know there is so much great great stuff on all these different blockchains but it all had to start from somewhere and it's so many stories like your own where it was like

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    you were passionate about something you felt like it was a community that you fit into and like somebody had to get this ball rolling all this stuff and so projects like yours and like mbase are really the foundation of kind of where we are today and hopefully keep going um so transitioning to Mint base uh so as mint Bas has started to grow and you know pun intendent as you uh working on

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    growth uh what is the main focus because there are a lot of different projects you mentioned already the wallet obviously the still the nft marketplace is there these these templates I think there's some other things you guys are working on too what do what is the main focus right now for mbase yeah um so not to go too far into Alpha land but um the the current focus is really leaning into the strengths of near protocol in the ecosystem and that's

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    really around the account and chain abstraction which is unparalleled in crypto um the fact that those concepts are baked into the chain at a protocol level um unlocks so much possibility um so you know mint base is very familiar with that technology sees the strength of near mbase has built on ethereum and other chains besides near um and having that kind of overview um with the wallet and um the different indexing powers

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    that have been built in House at mbase um will be leaning heavily into um probably relayer land and the the end goal of all of that like that's all technology that enables something and the something that we're aiming to enable is taking all of the complexity of crypto the fact that right now users are juggling wallets across several chains you know if they're power users um or they have no idea what a wallet is

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    if they're everyday users and get rid of all that complexity so that at the end of the day Brands and creators can come in and do an activation that takes advantage of digital Collectibles and how ownership is going to work in the future and you know be successful with it get conversions out of it um actually find that it's you know more cost effective and a better system than what

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    they're using today so that's that's the goal yeah yeah I mean it's super exciting you know and so as the developer myself you know uh running my own project having the tools available from minase have been huge and it's allowed to for us at chard doog to speed up development at times whether it's leveraging the wallet uh We've I mean we've burned out that indexer so I mean the indexer for us again is huge and I I

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    sometimes wonder maybe where it's almost needs to be its own set of marketing in the sense of like not just that we have these tools but how it's a different mindset than coming from web 2 where you have to like pay for all these different things and you have to stand up all this different stuff to maybe like get started and make an MVP on web 2 you there's a lot of these things that already exist today that are either open

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    source or free and actually working and battle tested can you talk a little bit about some of that different mindset of where like coming from Web Two to now web three what people should think about yeah yeah it's I think that like conceptually the biggest leap is like maybe less of a technology one and more about um as I mentioned kind of the future of ownership because I think a

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    lot of um developers when they look at something like crypto or blockchain the big question is why and um in in the big picture of how people have thought about ownership over the years things have changed rapidly over the last few decades where we went from physical media to people wanting to own files to people wanting to own access to streams at their own convenience and I think

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    that the next evolution is going to be something with some provability built into it like blockchain and when we look at that trajectory um the the growth of blockchain is inevitable um it's just see it coming so I think that explaining that part to developers is actually the harder part like when I go out and present to you know JavaScript meetups and stuff usually there's you know a bunch of jokes about crypto and blockchain and DG and yeah and all those

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    things and you know it's true it's part of the culture it it has to be acknowledged but then also you know there's something very serious about the sovereignty the decentralization and the approvability that blockchain provides so sure I think that that mental shift is the big one and then um hopefully the goal with you know the mbased tooling is that the technology shift isn't that big

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    we've got the the mint based JS um tooling to start doing like writing to the blockchain and then we've got the familiar graphql for reading from the blockchain and hopefully that technology shift isn't too big of a leap yeah so let's take a look few minutes bring up your screen here U maybe you could just like talk us through some of the different things here that I know you had some thoughts of you want to kind of show off to people and then we can maybe

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    dive a little bit deeper into what some of the templates actually are doing and how Dev can leverage them yeah so I mentioned that a lot of people have seen kind of the marketplace for um mint Bas and that's what a lot of people see is the front end but then wanted to um show that like even from a web 2 developer standpoint one of the most easy things to do is to take advantage of the

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    referral program so on any nft on mint base if you use the referral link um you get half of the fee for the that nft sale and Tradeport is an example of a market that has taken full advantage of that um Tradeport has great tooling for looking at nfts across different chains and by taking advantage of the referral links they're actually the leading referrer for sales on uh mint base so even as a web 2 developer you could you

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    know design a fancy front end start driving some traffic and then make um referral sales that easily uh with you know basically zero web 3 experience um but if you want to dive a bit deeper then um can get into the current documentation uh around mint base and this is where we outline um how to get started with mint based JS and the different um libraries that are available there uh for popular frontends uh like react and um being able to deal

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    with all the different things you need and then also the graphql indexer showing um the playground where you can you know start querying data um that's relevant to your application so that's kind of the two ends is like if you're um a very beginner developer can start doing referral links right away and then if you're more advanced can dive into you know the actual libraries and start

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    seeing under the hood what's driving things like templates and then the templates we get to a kind of Middle Ground where the goal is to have things that are basically like activations that are ready ready to go so you don't have to dream up like oh what would I even want to do with blockchain like these are things that we've seen Brands and creators reach for and they work and

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    they're ready to go um if you have your audience then these are some fun interesting things that you can do with them so that's where the templates come in and they they are a wide range of like capabilities the getting started example is literally just here's a login to allow people to log into your application with a wallet so that's less of like a full activation but it's an important step that people need to take to understand how um wallets and everything fit into this and then all the way to something like

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    minsta which is um like a full minting platform that allows you to do basically a photo booth at your event or around your space or theme um and do all that minting on chain and allow people to do that without having a wallet previously without owning any crypto um just get right into creating on the blockchain so um the when we have all the templates we have kind of like a walkthrough of how you clone them and set them up and then also have live examples of like what does this thing look like when you

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    actually get it going um to inspire people so this is an example that happened around an Indian holiday and you know people were celebrating sharing all the different things um that happened during the holiday so yeah that's that's kind of the idea there is like ready to go uh activations that Brands and creators can use that's awesome yeah so I'm a I'm a developer um maybe let's

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    just we'll start with the basic here uh I'm new to web 3 and blockchain and crypto and all that stuff um and I I hear about I can get started easily with temp I think every developer understands the concept of templates uh what's step one yeah so step one I think would be taking a look at the the wallet starter because this one is it's got everything Stripped Away so what you're looking at is really just like what does web3 integration look like and um because of

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    that you can really focus on the the steps and what we're doing here is just the basic connection so when we do step one if you're you know familiar with the command line utilities then you just npx create phas starter next and you've got this project cloned and you're ready to go um if you're a little bit newer to development and you want a softer start you can hit deploy and right on versell you can go and um deploy the application that way

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    without having to do anything on your Local Host can get it up and running with a single click so those are the two kind of routes in um depending on your level of comfortability and yeah it's it's really that easy and then once you've done this first starter and walked through it and kind of like found some success the idea is that you'll be able to um jump into some of the other interesting

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    um templates that exist for like running a Blog chain um your running your own Marketplace um integrating AI with these things and things like that awesome awesome stuff so a question that comes to mind is uh can I deploy on both testet and mainnet and what about funds yep so by default all of the templates start out on testnet because we assume that's where developers are going to start their Journeys it's kind

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    of scary jumping into mainnet um and needing funds yeah um and then there's uh faucets available to go and get funds um I don't know if right now on testnet if you get an account is it still come with any test net tokens I'm not even sure on that a good question the highight that's something to to check on and update templates with is to be sure people know how to get some test net tokens for funding um but yeah everybody starts on testnet and then as you are

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    comfortable and familiar with doing the deployments then can um fork and have your main net deployment as well nice nice uh do you directly so uh mimas has their own wallet uh do you use that as the main uh login system or are you still leveraging the wallet selector and things like that um we see that wallet selector is like the the way to go um diversity of strength and giving people flexibility

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    and options is the way to go um we obviously have Min Bas as the first choice in wallet selector um because we're proud of what we're building and we think that um the the AI capabilities that are there are are a big differentiator not just in the near ecosystem but across all of crypto um and are excited to build that out further uh yeah uh think that that that diversity is really important and hope

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    that other wallets kind of feel the same and are excited about getting cross pollination of users across these systems is as I start to get more comfortable I'm I've tried one of your templates I now want to maybe kind of remix a little bit make it more of my own uh is there any licensing that people need to be aware of or is this fully like just go have fun see what you can build um fully open source and accessible for commercial usage we want

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    to enable people to earn absolutely awesome awesome uh I think you know and you're a developer yourself I know there's just a lot here when you think of you know I guess coming into an ecosystem or something else like that you you know can you just go into a little bit about like why something like besides the obvious of like hey here's a starter kid but like why does a template

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    actually make things a littleit more approachable for a developer new to the an ecosystem oh hopefully when in my development experience usually the the first days of development in an ecosystem rup project are the hardest and the least rewarding you are trudging through dependencies just getting something to display at all um and you don't get much satisfaction out of that um but once you're over that

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    hump then you can start you know seeing things on the screen and seeing your transactions on the blockchain and um you know you suddenly feel like you're doing something and it it's not just environment setup and kind of the the you know roughest part so that's what templates aim to like help people get over at the start and eventually you need to know exactly how all these things are wired up because you want to

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    figure out your own build systems that work for you know your company's environments or whatever else and have your mayet and test net deployments and things but um that's something that we feel like people shouldn't have to worry about until they're at the maturity of having found that success and being excited about taking it to that level yeah I think that's a great point where it's it it can be very daunting early on and I think sometimes to

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    conversations that we have at Dev Hub is there is that apprehension of getting started whether again whether you are Web Two clearly new web 3 but even if you're coming from another chain and you say oh I want to explore near but you know I don't I don't really know where to start I don't know whoever else and so some of that also is like the different conventions so how do you address some of that through the temple or do you address some of that through

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    the temp templates of like uh introducing them to some of the vernacular that comes along with near um I think that some of that will like the way that we have the templates working right now is after you clone the template the first thing we expect people to kind of dig into is customizing it so more of like web to branding changes and things like that and then um from there would expect people to kind of dig back into um the

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    docs where we have mint based JS and break things down into like um how the wallet and storage Works um and authorization and getting your data from rpcs and things like that work um but it breaks down basically into read and write and I think a lot of developers are very familiar with those Concepts and um teaching uh how those work exactly in near compared to web 2 or other web 3 chains is is what it boils down to um so trying to go for the most um generic

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    accessible familiar terminology and then getting further and further into the weeds and then once somebody has you know a good grasp on it we also have a bounty program with templates for folks to start building out their own templates and get paid for um giving back to the ecosystem once they have that level of maturity that's a I mean that's a really exciting piece there too uh you know

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    having steps to growth right I think that's an important piece there one thing I want to just reminded me as you're going through your docs page is an approach that M has always seemed to have taken is that while it's heavy web 3 and right and and everyone on the team is very intimately deep and believes in web 3 and and all of the different ethos of it yet everything is made in a way

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    that is super approachable as any type of developer uh I would look at like the index or the way it's built on graphql right I mean that's a very you know regular uh system nowadays for developers to interact with for data uh everything you know most stuff is in JavaScript uh you've really taken a lot of the where some people get the smart contract even like the way you're able

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    to deploy smart contracts with a few clicks instead of having to go and write and edit and all these things uh is that something where it takes away any of the of the importance of what comes with web 3 or is really the long term like it's not about you know how you get there is that if you get there yeah I think that um with with any learning experience or you know coming to a new technology the first thing you have to do is see why it's valuable and be inspired to use it and

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    then I think that the next step is finding success and feeling like you have done something um to be excited enough to continue on to get into the weeds of um you know how exactly is all this stuff fitting together um how many validators are there like all all of those details that kind of do get into some of the the more um you know nitty-gritty of what decentralization means and why this technology is so important why sovereignty is so

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    important um and those things so I think that it's important to get there but even more important is just being excited to play with it in the first place yeah I I I I couldn't agree more with that one of the things you know personally I think we try again we try to do this at devhub is that you know we need to get you to explore and and play around with the ecosystem a little bit and the easiest way to do that is to give you stuff that's familiar and to give you stuff that doesn't seem so

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    foreign because like you said like that first that beginning time be the most painful because it's this like learning curve right of like you know it's maybe it's a new syntax maybe it's a new language uh if you've never used rust and now you want to use rust like good luck um so sometimes that transition for people is is is daunting and so I love the approach here of let's make it feel familiar and then when you're ready you

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    can start to level up U through all of this uh that's really exciting uh I don't necessarily we not trying to push Alpha on the show or anything like that but where do you see like the next steps for you know mint based and the whole template program besides I saw the the boun program is awesome um but do you see that as expanding where you are building more templates in house things like

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    that yeah so um maintaining templates um is actually something that takes a lot of effort and I think that this is a problem across kind of Open Source development in general is that um maintenance is the hardest question to answer and funding public goods in the Commons is a very hard question to answer so I think as a next step for our grants program and for templates what we're looking to do is come up with a more sustainable model that encourages contribution over time um maintenance

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    and user feedback loops with people who are creating and maintaining templates um um so that it doesn't feel like a one anddone thing but it actually feels like part of a living breathing ecosystem and these are all things that you know after a Creator or a brand gets their people in the door of the ecosystem have you know a plethora of different activations they can reach for and have a Content calendar that goes out months if not years uh based off of that so that's

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    kind of like the like the Horizon of where we're pushing towards is sustainability and making sure that things are staying alive over time and then you know we want people to dream up whatever they can with templates and we get a lot of questions about well can I build this thing and when we get questions about that kind of um like open-ended where to build uh kind of things um we encourage people to look at

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    the existing template asks for like what we're hoping people to build with bounties and take that formatting and form your idea using similar formatting so we can see kind of like how the technology is coming together what the goal is what it enables what the challenges are how long it's going to take things like that yeah um and then we're also you know because we're so bullish on the fact that we live in a multi-chain present um putting out Bounties in you know the the base

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    ecosystem with farcaster and warcast so we put out a bounty for developing frames so that these um drops that Bas enables can show up in the base ecosystem and we got that um live and deployed so that was a really cool um activation and and an example of a successful Bounty and we hope to see more of that just like being able to enable things across chains and as the AI capabilities of mint base mature and it's more obvious how to build for and

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    take advantage of those AI um abilities to build out interfaces on your behalf and things like that I think that a lot of templates are going to gravitate towards that AIC Centric interface um where instead of just sharing like a link to a Smart Action that has been run um it's possible to have something that's more interactive um and right now you can share a link to like this AI I told it um make a free

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    mint of an nft of a quiet anime girl image and it went and it did all these things in the future you'll be able to look at each one of these steps edit each step and then ultimately take all of these steps and package them up in something like a frame that gives people a familiar UI for interacting with the AI that doesn't feel like a wall of text and looking at what transaction got built but looking at the end result and being able to do something with it and I think that that kind of familiar

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    interface is going to help especially web 2 people get into um the crypto world where they have you know a a chat that they can trust and ask kind of open-ended questions to but then also start making uh meaningful queries and doing some transactions with yeah uh well I mean certainly making this easy because you just h on two things I just wanted to talk about to as well um I I definitely want to talk about the AI a little bit but I want to go back to the

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    forecaster example and multi-chain I I know uh that mint base has been diving into chain abstraction we just had our first chain abstraction workg group call right before uh devhub live here which will be recorded on our YouTube channel you'll be able to go back and see that uh it's a really exciting time in the ecosystem as we start to open this up and really explore some new possibilities uh can you talk a little

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    bit about what uh M based was actually working on regarding chain abstraction and like the example here of like parter yeah so the place where we see the chain abstraction really fitting together is inside of the wallet um and the goal is to have users comfortable with having a a single account and that being their touch point but then being able to take advantage of um capabilities across whatever chain the activation or thing that

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    they're curious about is present in without them having to go through the Hops of bridging and you know buying the native token and all of those things so where mint base is really focusing energy right now is solving that friction point and um again not too much Alpha but very excited uh for the next few weeks to make some announcements about the the direction of where we've um made some breakthroughs awesome awesome yeah won't

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    won't won't push you on anything but I think it's it's really exciting and it's it's been awesome to see as someone as myself who's been around here for a few years now the the growth of M always trying to be at the Forefront of not just um like near technology but all the things that are going on and so to see you guys dive so much into n chain abstraction and certainly AI um AI has

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    really become a a big piece and I know Lis on your side your C has done a lot of really interesting experiments so far uh how does you know you show the example in the wallet um you talk a little bit more about like the larger Vision with the AI in M Phase 2 yeah so the way that we kind of frame up AI is um it's this essential component of any technology company today um if you're not taking advantage of AI in some capacity then you're missing out on a lot of um you know you

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    know just efficiency in general uh so for us AI is part of how we work um and it's also something that we want to bring to our users and when we say our users our demographic is really like developers and people that want to be able to do activations so we kind of see kind of um you know more technical people and then people who are creators or brands or marketing agencies and things like that is kind of the two big

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    demographics and we don't differentiate too much between we two and web 3 users in those two buckets because ultimately like the developers are more on the technical side and then the bigger Gap is between those who don't have any technical um background or knowledge um and the way that we hope that AI can help with this is to fill in a lot of the UI and ux and kind of also conceptual issues that people do hit

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    when they come to web three and decentralization um to help get them over that Gap as quickly as possible and to help them seamlessly transition into the future of ownership um I think that when waves came through uh the way people thought about ownership with MP3s things like that people were naysayers for a long time inside of that and then streaming there's you know people that are naysayers saying it's just it it won't work it can't be um but I think that despite that when the zist

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    aligns with how people actually do think about ownership and how that transition happens it it's a it's a shift and all people need is just a a ramp a comfortable ramp into that world where Suddenly It's the thing that makes the most sense to them and they do it so that's what we're working on with the AI tools is um finding that happy place and it takes a lot of experimentation to to

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    get there and that's why AI is so powerful is how quickly it allows you to iterate on interfaces and to build them out and there's a kind of common misconception that AI solves all the problems and it it really doesn't what it does is it allows you to operate more efficiently so um we're not expecting to just give people raw access to an llm and expect them to successfully come up

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    with transactions that will run on the blockchain that would be a disaster people would lose their funds immediately um so what we're trying to do is come up with some templates within the AI system understand the intent of the user map those to existing templates and then also give them access to take that template and Fork it and make it their own um and that's where it kind of

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    like ties back into the templates is making sure that from that first experience of just like being on board with the future of ownership um going and understanding what you own and how to transact in that world and then also starting to do your own creations and and um contributing and adding value in the ecosystem like that's the the the big ramp that we see and that's the funnel that we're trying to help people

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    through yeah I I that that makes a ton of sense and it's certainly exciting time and like you said you almost have to always be considerate of some kind of AI usage whether it's through your own strategy whether it's a tool you're using whatever it might be so it's really exciting to see that for you guys and is it something where again the wallet piece becomes the Hub of all of

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    this for you you guys is that where you're thinking of that like where everything begins with the wallet and we're going to put people things there yep absolutely yeah more and more the functionality you see in kind of the class segment based Marketplace site um and where the templates and developer tooling is showing up um will all be visible in the wallet awesome awesome uh while we're speaking of w you

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    we'll take a a a quick question question maybe that you might know if you don't know it's okay um so we have a question uh when will the mint based Wallet be available on ref Finance days if not weeks uh it's under active development um yeah we're ironing out a few last uh rough edges and soon soon PM awesome awesome awesome that that's definitely a challenge uh with a wallet and maintaining all the projects

84. 40:27

    that you guys are maintaining is does that become a challenge in itself you know for for you as running growth especially where you have these different verticals how do you make sure that you are spending the right time in in growing in the right right areas no it's it's a huge challenge especially in a team like mint base which is engineering founded engineering driven and L um the thing that Engineers commonly do is find something shiny and

85. 41:00

    build around it and then they find the next shiny thing and build around it it and you know that has created in in the mbas ecosystem a ton of really cool things yeah um so from my perspective coming in and focusing on growth and connecting those cool things to users what it does is it gives me a ton of raw material to work with um there's just a plethora of different interesting things

86. 41:26

    that can be done and the challenge then is like tying them together um seeing where to put the the focus and balancing that out because inevitably a decision to do one thing means choosing not to do another right and that is um you know something that I try and get everybody comfortable with with and thinking about as far as like how your work actually lines up to value for users and for a lot of developers that sounds like a drag to begin with but once they have that like feedback loop and the Epiphany that people are

87. 42:00

    enjoying and using their things and it's not just an imaginary user on the other side it's actually really satisfying and it makes the work all that much more fun so that's usually how the uh the cycle goes when I'm getting a new team kind of on board with the user feedback loop is it's a little bit of pulling teeth to begin with but then once the epiphanies are there it's um it's a lot more exciting yeah yeah no it sounds like it

88. 42:23

    and I could certainly empathize with the uh chasing the shiny thing because there's a lot of exciting things happening and I do feel like a lot of people join and get into web 3 because of wanting to find that excitement and wanting to relive that you know depending on your age and you know I'm I'm on the older side if you remember like the early.com days you know and you go back to write like the boom you know

89. 42:48

    in the 2010s early 2010s of all of the you know web 2 companies this is almost now like this new upstart and so if you missed it or you of those other things it feels really exciting so it is hard to like make sure you're staying somewhat focused um but you guys have done a really nice job I will say in not just building things out but actually making things usable so like I think

90. 43:13

    you've done a nice job of having experiments as well as then like this becomes you know something that people can actually use templates is a great example uh of that uh as we kind of come near the the end and I'd love to take a couple minutes of just maybe you yourself uh stepping away a little bit from from mint base uh where do you see I guess the general uh developer experience on near I guess today so not just from mbas

91. 43:46

    side the whole thing where do you feel like that a developer really can start to grow and Thrive coming to near yeah I think there's for developers kind of like two things that are interesting about near um I think that from uh one of them is just like being kind of a a selfstarter um somebody who wants to hack on something on the weekend or start their own startup something like that um that's one kind of like bucket and then the other one is

92. 44:19

    more on the uh corporate side or professional side of having a skill set that fits into something bigger and knowing that the tools that you're bringing with you can enable things at the scale that large corporations demand um like AWS scale so those are kind of the two developer buckets that I see being attracted to the near ecosystem um I think that for the folks that are just on the like the hacking

93. 44:50

    and getting started and um excited to build side um that developer demographic graphic is a little bit harder to attract to near because inside of the crypto ecosystem there are so many shiny things and where you land really like the thing that matters most is who you're talking to who your friends are and and what and if what profile picture caught your attention this week and you want to go look at what that's about

94. 45:16

    yeah so I think that um you know that demographic what what near has to offer um is a very open culture if people are attracted to open Source in general one of the first things that attracted me to near was the fact that I could every week get on YouTube and see in a live call what the protocol developers were working on there was no smoke in mirrors there wasn't any faking it till we make it it was actually the teams that were talking about the problems that they were facing and how they were dealing with the challenges and I didn't have

95. 45:48

    the technical depth to follow along 100% but I I could tell enough that I was like okay this is real this is actually a thing um so I think that from that perspective if you're into open source development near is an incredible ecosystem to to jump into for hacking on projects and making them sustainable I think that that's another big thing that is really attractive about near um and

96. 46:12

    then the the AI history as well like the fact that this is a system that was designed to make AI sustainable and profitable for humans in the long term like those are all things that would get the selfstarter hackers involved um I think from the from the the other demographic and this is where I think a lot of um traction comes from is developers who need something that works at scale seeing hot deliver seeing sweat deliver seeing Kai Kai deliver and

97. 46:42

    knowing that the chain keeps Ono when you have 30 million users on it when the chain is supporting three of the top 10 daps in the world in crypto and it's still going like that gives you a sense that okay like this this sharting thing is working out like something's working here um this is something I can put some time behind learning about yeah uh I I I I'm on board with all of that it's funny I

98. 47:13

    that's one of the things that got me too with these those Community calls of being able to jump in and and see that I had never experienced that I came from a very heavy web 2 Enterprise kind of building into see the openness and to talk about things and I remember even just like being asked a question of like hey what's your perception of this as the new guy and it was like me like what

99. 47:37

    you know it was just it always felt inclusive and so I I and I still to this day I do feel like that and uh we have a lot of great work group calls that continue here so that is certainly exciting um one last thing um one thing I know is near and dear to you personally is nfts uh you have have probably the largest nft collection on near um I I would I don't know if anyone has more um but and I'm very deep into nfts too with my own project we we

100. 48:08

     leverage the technology of nft a lot and mint base obviously that's where that all got started from where do you see the evolution of nfts just in general not say on near but the evolution of nfts going is it is it still going to be just more of the art piece of it or does it become much more you think over time um I think it'll be much more I think that one of the things about the crypto World in general is that um the same tried and true things keep on

101. 48:40

     happening over and over again um people do fungible token launches and non-fungible token launches when smart contracts are capable of so much more than that they're these Primitives that when somebody finds the right fit for can enable anything transactionally um and that's what's so exciting about it is that there's so much untapped potential when only 5% of the world has interacted with crypto and even a smaller amount of developers have looked at it and we have really two successful models maybe three if you

102. 49:13

     count Dows for how people kind of like interact with value in this new way there's so much wide open space to be explored and I think that that's part of when we talk about the future of ownership what is necessary is some more experiments in um people that are willing to try something new that's not just the same old cycle where we know the shape it's going to take with a token launch or something like that but willing to try a new way of capturing value and a new shape of an economy that

103. 49:43

     they've thought up and done some clever design around um I think that that's the the wide open space for nfts and to kind of get away from those two terms of fundable tokens and non-fungible tokens and just think about like digital collectibles in general or value capture in general and how those things appear onchain in a decentralized way yeah yeah no it's it's certainly exciting time uh

104. 50:08

     there's definitely some you know I think we'll see as the AI vision gets more clear too you can see how all that starts to go together around ownership verifying all those different pieces so uh it's definitely a cool time to be building uh just kind of last thing any last pieces you want to share about M base but anything um before you go if you want to keep up to date um definitely you know follow on Twitter on

105. 50:37

     farcaster we also have a substack where we have our Weekly Newsletter going out so that's probably the best place to catch all the alpha as it as it comes um and yeah thanks so much for having me on this was a lot of fun yeah know thanks I mean as you guys continue to build uh we hope you guys come back you have you know with the you or your other team members or maybe a whole bunch of you can all kind of jump on because uh

106. 51:00

     especially when you when the the new stuff comes gets released in a couple weeks uh we certainly be curious about all of that uh thanks Joan for taking the time I really appreciate it and looking forward to seeing more out of you guys well thank you my pleasure take care take care thanks all right that was exciting uh that I think if you have not been exposed to Mint base hopefully this was

107. 51:25

     a great introduction in Prime um as a developer there are so many awesome opportunities there it's you know again whether you are even if you're just kind of interested in making a project you're not a you know an overly experienced developer as Jordan was walking through there's opportunities from so many different ways to kind of start building and start coming up with projects and working on

108. 51:48

     things uh and if you are experienced and you have some ideas but you're not sure how to implement them I would definitely check out their Bounty program and looking to other things like that that are available uh so this has been really exciting I want to do wrap up with a couple different items um before we go and so one of the things that are coming up is let me pull up my screen

109. 52:13

     here so I'm gonna pull up my screen and we do have uh tomorrow we do have our protocol work group call and that is uh happening uh tomorrow at 5:00 pm UT uh so Jordan talked about you know being able to come on and actually listen in and hear how decisions are made and you know maybe eventually even contribute uh you can any these are open calls you can come in where there's two neps that are being voted on uh and that's an exciting

110. 52:44

     opportunity to kind of see how this all works and what's going on we can let's see try we can pull up what they're actually voting on tomorrow because that be good too let's do the two neps so if you want to look at an NEP and let's let's actually show how this kind of works here so I'm going to pull up so in in GitHub so all this is open source all this is available uh you can actually see the pull request um for the NEP this is one of the ones that are are

111. 53:25

     being uh voted on and again uh so if we bring up again here so you see we have number 536 and 540 uh being voted on tomorrow and here it is and you can see what it is this proposal reduces the number of uh refund receipts and optimize the performance of the protocol so again you can see all the different details here how it will be implemented uh and this becomes eventually part of the protocol and you can see the whole conversation uh it's

112. 53:56

     all out in the open and this is even open where people can contribute if they feel like they have some expertise around this so it's a nice opportunity we can see what 40 is as well let's look at what 40 is love the sound of this reduce storage taking price by 10x uh so these are things again these affect all developers and so when we talk about different uh storage you know uh costs and things like that that go into developing in web through

113. 54:27

     uh these considerations around the protocol are are here uh again everything kind of has two sides to it and it's it's important to understand both the good and the bad just because we're saying we're cutting reducing uh cost of something that's not always as simple as it just being a win for everybody and so it's good to kind of learn a little bit more about what are the pitfalls when sometimes you do reduce certain costs and things like

114. 54:51

     that and you can see the whole discussion again here right on GitHub as well as you can actually again you can join the call tomorrow uh and be part of that uh if you if you missed it uh earlier today uh we did also have our first chain abstraction Community call uh if you're new to near or near to to the concept of chain abstraction again this is an opportunity where you can interact with other blockchains through near and it's a really uh awesome

115. 55:22

     implementation where uh it simplifies the process of being able able to actually send different payloads uh to the chains and be able to leverage everything through one account Set uh here on near and really make a killer user experience because you don't have to have people jumping through multiple wallets bridging things like that so if you want to get involved learn more things like that uh you can continue to

116. 55:46

     join those Community calls uh you can watch the video that will be live on up Live on YouTube later uh for this first one we have tons of resources in our own Community uh so I'll if you want to see any of our community information I'll pull this up on the screen here too so near Dev hub.org we have a community section you can go right there you'll see chain abstraction right near

117. 56:12

     the top jump in there you can see the resources we have links to the documentation uh different videos uh GitHub repos all the different stuff that's there and you can stay up to date uh so it's it's really uh and exciting uh opportunity the the last thing I definitely want to uh leave with everyone here is uh let me just a kind of reminder here I'll uh we have a newsletter that

118. 56:43

     comes out uh regularly and one of the things that uh we're really again excited about that at here at devhub is we are really trying trying to make sure you get all of the updates that's happening in the near ecosystem for developers uh there is so much going on from chain abstraction to AI to just basic building to updating our tooling our sdks and so our Weekly Newsletter is

119. 57:14

     the place to go we have all the information there upcoming events hackathons uh whatever you could think of that involves developing uh here at near uh that's all through that newsletter so we really hope that you sign up and get started there uh if you ever have questions again uh we're always available especially on telegram you can come to our Dev support there if you're in our the near Discord there is a support channel for developers in the

120. 57:40

     near Discord as well uh we are also uh on on Twitter uh you can connect through the live streams and things like that as well uh I really encourage you to please you know come reach out if you have any questions and and keep uh following up because we have lots of great stuff coming following weeks uh our YouTube channel is growing and we have some more content coming there as well uh and it's one of the opportunities right now where if you are a curious Builder uh it's a

121. 58:11

     great time to join the ecosystem because there's just a lot going on uh thanks everyone so much for uh joining uh this has been another episode of devhub Live And we look forward to seeing you again same time next week thanks