NEAR Contract Standards Community Call 1

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:08

   hi everybody Welcome to the first contract standards community group call uh my name is Max or Maxwell and I'm a recent on board to the near Dev Hub community contributor program I'm currently working on identifying the needs in the best way that I can support the community so please reach out to me if you have any thoughts I'd appreciate it uh one of the ways I plan on supporting will be helping to organize some of

2. 0:31

   these Community calls so you may be seeing me around more often my role on this call is mostly to pass things off to the community and take notes but if we end up needing any moderation I may also step in like to encourage everybody here to introduce themselves but uh in the interest of time please do so in a text chat it seems like many people know each other anyway um a few words on the format for this call this is a community group discussion and an open forum for people to discuss concerns initiatives Etc relating to

3. 1:02

   contract standards for near ideally the goal of this call is to hear a variety of viewpoints where they exist and move the discussion forward for the Greater Community so there's not necessarily any expectation that we're going to reach a final decision on any of these topics um so when we have these calls just to point this out here in the top right we'll accept topic submissions in advance from anyone who has proposals

4. 1:26

   for the agenda um each Topic's proposer will be invited to give a short introduction to the topic and I'll let them optionally share their screen and a few slides if they have them and want to so the floor I'm going to leave open to anyone can butt in at any time if so they choose just you know hopefully without too much Interruption if it does get too or disorganized which I'm hoping won't happen I may have to step in and ask people to start raising hands

5. 1:56

   so I guess we'll jump right into it um today we have three topics proposed for the agenda we have Sal to talk about multi-token on near Robert to talk about Soul Bond tokens and James to talk about some of the uh sput McDowell contracts maintenance upgrades so yeah I guess we'll jump right into it if a single topic ends up taking more than 25 minutes I may step in to ask to wrap up the discussion so we can move to the

6. 2:21

   next topic just so we make sure everybody gets a chance but uh other than that yeah I guess we'll just pass it off to Sal take it away hey yeah thank you Maxwell uh I appreciate that and it's a pleasure to meet you um yeah so just to dive right into it I appreciate everyone joining the call today um you know our primary focus here is to talk about the multi-token standard uh for those that don't know I had uh submitted a proposal um on your devgov to you know essentially standardize the multi-token

7. 2:52

   standard and you know move forward on something that has you know been discussed for for quite some time um and you know we we're you know it's really our goal to you know move things along and um you know see this you know go from you know this discussion to hopefully you know standardization and you know maybe even the next couple months um so the poems that exist um are essentially that Neo does not have a you know a standardized most

8. 3:24

   token standard um um uh yes and so you know we have our you know fungible token we have our nft um but you know we're comparing it to other chains um like ethereum as discussed previously we don't have that equivalent to an 1155 and so that has you know been slightly problematic um and presented some opportunity um you know for us to kind of you know think about what that would look like on year and you know potentially pursue the standardization of that so

9. 3:59

   um you know without further Ado I do want to bring up um and introduce you to several people on this call who do have opinions or current implementations with regards to the multi-token standard now um you know we'll just to give you guys a heads up before before I pass it on you know we'll talk to Alex who is um you know part of the team tenement um Luke who is is Luke here oh there you go hi Luke

10. 4:28

    um and uh who is uh here representing Open Force protocol uh Dima who is not here is anybody here from XP Network no okay that's fine um and uh Lachlan who is uh part of the human far team and then um the team from ref fine it's as well I'm not sure if that will be is a evgeny I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly or will someone else is someone else here from our finance uh we'll get to that in a minute but um

11. 5:11

    you know I do want to introduce you know these these few speakers just to talk about how they Implement um you know their version of the mode still can at the moment and um you know how things can potentially align and how we can you know work towards standardization based on all these things so um you know I won't speak for too long um I'll send it over to Alex um just to talk about how we have implemented it in you know for tenement

12. 5:37

    um and you know actually before I send it over to Alex I can obviously speak on tenement um you know yeah and kind of explain our process from the product side um the goal for tournament was to provide uh it was to fractionalized real world Collectibles right so we're talking about uh sports cards or Pokemon cards um real world Collectibles that need to be like truly fractional representations

13. 6:02

    of that um of that specific card so you can imagine how you know 100 or 600 nfts of one card doesn't serve the same process process or um is in a solution to a fact one fractional card that is you know split into 600 fractions and that's where the multi-token standard really came in for us um and of course it was important for it to have um you know reward um you know royalty type uh mechanisms and um you know just truly be reflective of that fractionalization and so um I'll

14. 6:37

    pass it over to Alex to to perhaps speak on it um in a more from a more technical standpoint and to discuss the goals of the multi-token standard for us okay uh thanks Sal uh uh so in a nutshell uh we have two girls that we want to achieve uh from a technical point of view uh have a way to efficiently meet and manage uh token life cycle and have a a nice UI for people to see their tokens uh in inside of a wallet to achieve both

15. 7:15

    of them uh we we need the multi-talking standard um and even though it's possible to use nfts to achieve uh to somewhat achieve these goals it's just uh uh it just feels very much like a workaround uh and uh and that in a nutshell the the base of the implementation we took the nft standard as a basis uh and the spec that was proposed at the time I looked for bugs did the full implementation for our

16. 7:47

    use case which is fractional ownership which is slightly different uh from some music cases that you'd find in for example liquidity pools or organic community at its core we try to just be as little as unopenated as possible and just create the uh a bare Bond implementation which uh reflects the existing functionality from the uh nft standard and and uh pretty much pass it over to the community to see if there's any other thoughts ideas opinions uh to make it reusable like the main main issue we had

17. 8:27

    were that we found competing implementations already because we wanted uh our talk is to be displayed nicely across the community not just on our website so that's that's in a nutshell um happy to answer any any more any specific questions uh if you guys okay uh thank you Alex maybe perhaps um we passed it on to Luke to talk about the implementation on open Forest and then we can get additional feedback you know whether it's comparing

18. 9:12

    contrasting or you know finding a solution here long term so uh we can probably do that after so Luke if you don't mind um yeah of course Sal thanks so much um I actually had a quick question Alex um so it sounds like for you guys and and so you might be able to speak with this as well sounds like you don't really need to change much with the existing standard right it's kind of good as is for y'all

19. 9:34

    that was a hot initially but uh like as we dug deeper we write a couple of age cases uh for instance uh when you transfer an nft you obviously have a quantity of one which is simple so you don't need to really authorize a transfer a quantity to transfer you just also write the actual ID yeah uh now when we we're doing it semi-fungible you have to authorize the quantity but then you might do a partial transfer and

20. 10:01

    then you have to take into account this so uh because of this we run into a couple of HK scenarios which meant some of the uh logs some of the callbacks some of the events which is not compiled backwards compatible with she she's like that's an example of an edge case in which is which makes it through the specs oh sorry yeah could you go back about uh 40 seconds it seems like you're back now oh yeah you're connected I will try to repeat one more time

21. 10:46

    okay and all good Alex I think you've answered my questions if you don't want to go through it then I'll get I can I can take it from here yeah I can oh sorry all right yeah cool sounds good well I'll go ahead and take it then um so yeah thanks so much everyone for being here um great to see you all uh awesome that we have this meeting going on so uh if if this was Max if this is your idea or whoever's idea was it to to do this and

22. 11:27

    are you guys for implementing it great job so thank you this is this is a hugely important part of the near infrastructure that we need to keep going so this is awesome um so I'm from openforce protocol uh basically if you're not familiar we're a refi project regenerative Finance is the the word there um if you're unfamiliar with carbon credits I'm linking a Boston Consulting Group kind of article that tells you a little bit about it um and generally kind of gives you some

23. 11:51

    insight into what it is that we're doing because it's a little bit different from a lot of other crypto platforms and projects that you you might be familiar with um essentially we're taking a real world commodity asset uh in this case it's it's this thing called carbon credits um that is a commodity that's traded on a global market that's expected to expand dramatically in the near future and and this commodity represents carbon that's taken out of the atmosphere and

24. 12:15

    stored in trees so we basically have a process that quantifies that with people on the ground um yeah I think so and then um there's our link for our website there as well you can learn a little bit more information happy to also set up a call anytime but basically we have a system that takes that carbon calculates it and then issues a number of carbon credits uh as tokenized assets for these projects so um the interesting thing is that for

25. 12:39

    these projects it's similar to trading cards um the tokens that are issued they are non-fungible with respect to the project that they come from um one carbon credit is not fungible to another carbon credit if they're produced by different projects because um there are certain criteria that give value to that commodity kind of like if you're buying coffee um and one coffee bean is just some

26. 13:02

    standard off-the-shelf Folgers which is a really cheap brand in America type of coffee you don't really know where it came from you don't really know what kind of beam that is it's just coffee um versus the kind of Boutique coffee beans that's grown in shade employing local indigenous communities in Guatemala and the mountains and they're also using this for goat farming or whatever and thus you know basically

27. 13:25

    there there's Commodities out there that have certain benefits depending on where it's sourced from and depending on that veracity of that data um and so we're creating a commodity asset type asset that um also gains value based on that information and so we have to have an asset that is fungible enough to be able to be transactive so you have to have multiple carbon credits because you'll be issuing you know thousands of them potentially

28. 13:48

    but also have them be non-fungible enough to be able to retain that information of where it came from some of the details for its origin kind of like understanding you know where did your coffee beans come from were they from this really nice Guatemalan place that pays people well or was it just from some random place um somewhere so um so yeah so that's that's sort of the idea and um we're using the multi-token standard generally um as it is I think as the current implementation is right now um we just

29. 14:14

    need it finalized so I think you know for us there's not really anything um that needs to be changed about it at this point in time I think we're we're we've already implemented it and we're already building with our own implementation we can change it obviously but um but yeah I think that generally for us it's just this would be a huge very important thing for us to be able to push forward um because then once we standardize this we'll be able to transact those carbon

30. 14:38

    credits across chains and and just generally have better interoperability better legitimacy and then also be able to kind of trans that stuff on on near as well so the tokens that we create could be sold at various different exchanges and and then also bridged over so yeah without that existing standard in place that infrastructure then um that kind of listing on marketplaces of these Commodities and which would then facilitate the sale going back to the

31. 15:02

    original producers of it um and as well as you know interoperability those are threatened by this so um so yeah basically here to say we have a super important use case for it we really wanted to be pushed forward so anything we can do to kind of make it work let's do that I appreciate that does anybody have any questions uh regarding Open Force protocol or um you know the implementation

32. 15:30

    kind of hey so I'm Lachlan uh I'm with you and far um yeah I really appreciate everyone getting on this call um I propose that we have this for the multi-token discussion because um you know I just wanted to kind of Express some thoughts and potential concerns um that I had around the implementation um one there are a few factors um one is that to me it seems like um the kind of class of general idea of

33. 16:02

    like whether these semi-fungible tokens essentially are non-founder are like derived from a non-fungible token standard or derived from a fungible token standard um seems to me to be a important design Choice um and it seems to me that they bear more in common with fungible assets um than non-fungible assets um like you're saying like they're like you know coffee beans from the same grower they're essentially interchangeable they're not interchangeable with coffee beans from

34. 16:32

    another grower but they are interchangeable and and I think from a marketplaces perspective it makes a lot more sense to think of this and Design This in that way as like essentially an extension of like the fungible token standard that can maybe that maybe beefs up the metadata um a tangible token standard um the other and I'm just expressing these concerns now because I also have a hard stop in 10 minutes unfortunately um I also um

35. 17:03

    had concerns just over the desire for this to be um adopted which I fully agree like we need we need a solution on near for semi-fungible tokens um you know especially coming from evm chains um and even you know native near needs for semi-fungible tokens um but I don't think that introducing a new essentially a new kind of nft um as would be represented by an nft contained in a new multi-toking contract

36. 17:35

    as specified by the standard um or a new fungible token as would be implemented by a fungible token contained within this multi-token standard um is a way to gain adoption um because that essentially doubles the complexity for indexers and other clients um and uh I while I recognize that this is the case on ethereum um and there is a desire for bridging Etc and so naturally the you know the idea of like a corresponding standard like an ERC 1155 clone on near is very

37. 18:13

    attractive from a bridging kind of perspective um you know near is not ethereum um obviously and and we have have our own kind of ecosystem and Tech that has evolved kind of independently we have a totally different kind of runtime Etc which creates unique um technical requirements um and so I guess I just wanted to encourage thinking about the in the with the idea of the goal of adoption

38. 18:45

    um and of course the few and far we want to we want to support this we want to we want to push it forward we want to enable people um to transact semi-fungible tokens um I I just wanted to propose that um the most likely scenario for adoption is probably the one that um requires the least amount of work on the part of indexers Etc not saying that they people shouldn't do work obviously um but I do just think that introducing

39. 19:17

    an entirely new standard contract standard is probably not the most effective way to go about it while I recognize the incentive um or the you know the motivation for that um and there's one more thing which I'm trying to remember um and my babies are crying in the background and I can't remember what I was going to say but I will I will I will raise that if it if it comes to mind um so yeah that's just what I kind of wanted to Express

40. 19:50

    yeah Lachlan I totally agree I'll just say from our perspective we did look at um creating an alternative implementation of a fungible token standard on here and we scrapped that though because um the uh there was no standardized version of that so um but yeah I mean it would be more helpful to list those type of stuff on exchanges if we make something that is um yeah is easier to index easier to just kind of be represented as a

41. 20:13

    multiple asset but I I still think that like the semifinal or the the multi-token standard will will still be able to accomplish that and and I think there's room for both probably sorry I remember the other thing I just wanted to say which is that um in perusing the multi-token standard it looks like almost an exact clone of the nft standard with you know the addition of like one or two extra

42. 20:37

    arguments here or there um which also just feels like if we're going to maintain these two standards that are basically a duplicate code uh doesn't sound like it's very easily maintainable or maybe that's an indicator that um that the design needs to be re thought just uh as in thought yeah some some very good points there um I know we only have you for a few more minutes but is there a like you know you

43. 21:10

    spoken to kind of why why not the multi-token standard but what is the solution for you know use cases like you know you know what we're building um at tenement what Luke is building with open forest and what is like the alternative um that kind of meets the needs of not only obviously our projects but like the future projects that have the same kind of uh needs right yeah I mean I don't know that I necessarily have the solution um and again like I'm not

44. 21:45

    um kind of the one implementing it so um uh but I do think that there probably is I just have a feeling that there is probably a solution around looking at the metadata associated with the existing fungible token standard and maybe kind of working with that to be able to support essentially a fundable token that um you know has uh has a more robust metadata um associated with it uh then you of

45. 22:15

    course have like other elements of EOC 1155 like you know you want if you want to contact to contain um you know fungible tokens and semi-fungible tokens and non-fungible tokens uh you know ERC 1155 does that very efficiently and cleanly but does it does mean that a lot of the work for determining the token types and all of that kind of like comes down to the indexes and the processors because it's not kind of delineated um within the contract um and you know a minimal implementation is is

46. 22:56

    you know that it it does make sense kind of why that was why that was utilized um I just think that if we think if we basically have essentially three kinds of tokens right fungible tokens non-fundra positions and semi-fungible tokens and like the ability to have you know maybe there are other types of tokens in the future um then yeah I would just I would just kind of encourage thinking about it uh a little bit more composably and turn and seeing

47. 23:27

    if existing if this can essentially be supported without like a mass migration um you know over to a new standard um you know just because it's going to be it's going to be really tough because that was it that was specified in in one of the proposals was like the intention here is for this to be adopted as like the the token standard like ERC 1155 is on ethereum but I I just personally like don't realistically see that happening in the same way because we're just a different chain at a different point in

48. 24:00

    our development different point in our community Etc yeah yeah very well said um Alex did you have anything to say with regards to the feedback there I saw you on mute that's why yeah Alex you're still um you're still cutting out Alex you want to maybe die yeah I'll got it okay yeah if I may sell I have just quick comment on that um I I think Lachlan that your points are absolutely right and it's good great to think about that I think also though we do kind of need to

49. 24:47

    um I mean right now we have two probably more projects that that are in pretty pretty dire need I'd say of this being implemented relatively quickly and um I don't see much of a downside of having there be multiple token standards that are that are out there that are capable of this or at least revising that process going forward right now the fact that the near does not have an ERC 1155 equivalent um is honestly I mean kind of embarrassing we sort of need to catch up

50. 25:14

    there I've had so many conversations with people like at consensus last week um you know I was like yeah we're gonna be using this but when near finalizes the ERC 1155 standard equivalent and they're like what do you mean near doesn't have that you know all these people from polygon and cello and and hedera and um and whatnot so um so yeah so it's it's one of those things that um I think would be beneficial to move forward on and to spend energy on I don't think that that's going to be something that

51. 25:39

    will detract in any way meaningfully in the future especially given that we can revise this and we can can create new standards um so just want to throw that out right um yeah very good point Luke I I've had some of those you know some similar conversations as well um and you know we don't I don't know if we have anybody here who is actually working on um you know the boss the blockchain operating system

52. 26:02

    um directly but I could imagine that there is probably some future use case uh for that equivalent um 1155 equivalent you know with the kind of top level goals of the blockchain operating system and you know I'm I'm not 100 sure but it just like high level it seems like that sounds you know it sounds well aligned now um my question was look I'm I'm probably the least technical person in here

53. 26:34

    um and I do my best to fully understand everything that's being discussed and and the you know the details of these standards um and all this but my question is you know you mentioned the maintenance uh Lachlan um is there what what does maintenance look like of a token um of a standard and is that you know what Luke was saying as if like you know was Luke was suggesting that there's limited downside to actually having an additional standard that is capable of more

54. 27:03

    um is there is there a downside or is is the maintenance like you know it you know not a big deal yeah I mean okay so we do have a multi-token standard um it exists right um but no one uses it so it's essentially that's in my opinion the downside of having a standard that's not designed correctly um or that that may I'm not saying that this isn't designed correct I'm just voicing my concerns but

55. 27:35

    my concern is that the downside to introducing a new standard without like really thoroughly um vetting it is well firstly it's a very long um it'll it'll be it'll be a long kind of uh process of of building it and getting Community feedback and reviewing and and all of and voting and all of that kind of stuff um and if it gets through um it is even small updates to existing standards um it's really hard to actually get them implemented like on indexes on

56. 28:15

    Marketplace like on all these different clients all over the place um and that and that's just that's also like my me speaking from experience in terms of that um so I would say the downside is just um it just risks essentially creating more fragmentation um and creating something ultimately if something is introduced to the standards I think the idea is that it should be supported across the board um and so I would just say like the

57. 28:46

    concern would be if it's introduced and it's not supported across the board um it it it's it's just a little dicey in my opinion fair enough um yeah and you know we definitely appreciate that perspective uh we have some questions in the chat uh shot um you're asking what are blockers from two four uh the two for five being uh getting passed um and Alexander with yeah oh so this was not yeah right interesting yeah I wanted to I wanted to say that it's not it's a job done we're

58. 29:33

    trying to get it or standardized right that's that's kind of the problem I have it's like uh I hear opinions like hey it is a standard but it's not a subject drops of a standard well at least that's what the official Nomicon IO says it's drafted and there is no finalized uh canonical implementation in the standard libraries again that's what we're trying to push through this call have a standard implementation and have these draft labels removed so we so then we can work

59. 30:03

    with people like wallet uh to figure out how we're going to support it in the ecosystem because as it is right now the reason why we couldn't just say hey we're just gonna adopt it right away is because we couldn't find the implementation that was functional there were too many bugs that were blocking it and it was not clear if these bugs will be addressed by the previous maintainer like again that's why we decided not to make a new start but to pretty much take

60. 30:27

    over what the standard was left and finish it and I personally think the standard is okay and uh why we can choose a multi-talk instead of a a fungible or a non-fungible uh yeah we tried uh it's just it's not about the lack of support for extending uh basic API the problem is the integration they call the events and the expectations of how the state would change and how those changes should be interpreted by the uh indexers by wallet and so on like these are not complete and that's what

61. 31:06

    we're trying to get complete in my opinion it doesn't matter if it's perfect or not it just needs to be complete at least at the level of which 1155 is because 1155 is not perfect people don't always use it people still use it use erc20 a lot even though 1155 is supposed to fully supersed it but people prefer simplicity so they will continue I think they will continue to use more fungible tokens and nfts and probably this

62. 31:32

    standard it becomes accepted and maybe the next standard I think there'll be a lot more standards coming in the future particularly with the sound bound and identity account abstraction initiatives I'm sure there'll be more standards coming in the future we just want to have something that we can work with today and I just wanted to say something really quickly we are at a 25 minutes left remaining in the call

63. 31:58

    um so I mean it sounds like we're having a pretty Lively discussion here we do have the option of maybe hosting another call to discuss the other things that we want but otherwise I'd like to you know wrap up here so we can move on and let Robert and uh and James get to present the topics they'd like to yeah fair enough um so just before we wrap up the multi-token standard I I think you know

64. 32:22

    a lot been had to jump off but I think there was a misunderstanding where he thought that the standard had passed um is still in a proposed state and that was kind of um you know and it's been in that been that way um so you know obviously our goal is to to get that move uh moving along um someone mentioned that we should get the wallet perspectives and and um any feedback from them and I've added that as an action item for next week um and you know hopefully like you know

65. 32:52

    I think overall you know we are mostly on the same page um but I do want to just you know quickly you know ask anybody else who hasn't spoken yet if they have any other anything else to say before we uh move on to uh sobound token but what's what's the clear call to action to getting NEP 245 move forward is it fixing the bugs in the actual implementation and and moving it down

66. 33:17

    the process or like or is it just general cons because I think there's enough stakeholders here to agree that it's it's needed but it's kind of not clear what the blockers are right I think General consensus is you know was is basically there you know across everybody but talk to um actually with the with the exception of Lachlan who may be you know now you know have a different perspective now that he realizes that um the um you know the Senate hasn't actually passed so shot what do you what do you recommend obviously you know you've

67. 33:50

    you've seen a lot of these conversations how can we move forward and how can we establish some uh key action items in your opinion like so so when you when you originally made the developer governance post there was a series of like different there was like the multi-token had like the royalties it had divisional uh implementation I put in the chat um it was kind of confusing to follow and then see what the next steps were um and then

68. 34:14

    I think uh Vlad uh was responding to this in the in actual implementation and it kind of um yeah and it kind of deferred to like group chat so I I I wasn't actually um I wasn't actually sure like whether the actual comments from like a month ago were addressed and um yes like that's that that that's my like main questions like what's what are the actual like tasks associated with um fixing the reference implementation so it can move down to NEP process

69. 34:47

    all right and I am going to ask that we actually just full stop right there and move on to let uh Robert introduce the next topic Robert are you there all right um you sure okay you need to give me the right to show the screen all right you should have it now all right um do you say presentation yeah can you see my presentation uh yep we can see it right um so I'm going to talk about this small band tokens just for the quick

70. 35:47

    intro I'm representing here um like the whole idea of um I am a human which we started doing the hackathon yeah my background is in general like a lot of stuff related to architecture designing the blockchains I also like co-designed a fungible token so net 141 did like a few very early Concepts in here anyways um yeah let's start with like that picture right so um many people like they think that's SBT is nft it's just like a token right so you hold the stalkers in the wallet

71. 36:26

    and you are happy because for some reason yes they heard that that's no soul can I mean SBT can represent some some some event or or or something and basically it's a non-fungible token and like the most common way how people implement this implement it is like with so-called non-transferability yes so they call it non-transferable um nft right so like there can be like a many ways how you can collect

72. 36:58

    um those stock answers which we can call this this sbts and there's a difference between assaults and sold by token and so um and as the name suggests a token sorry SBT is uh like a specific token or an entity is which will bound to a soul yeah so would you go back to like reference an entity in a one-to-one manner yeah so one SBT can be like really only point should be pointing only to One Soul one why sole one of human why not

73. 37:32

    like you know um what's the difference between like a soul or like nft which can be present revolved as right so a soul is something that you know we want to identify very very specifically right and like um in the way how I phrase it right uh the soul is is now it's something which describes us so with reference to a human right is is our identity right um is a car our identity uh not really right it's a certificate

74. 38:07

    our identity also it's not our identity but a set of many different things which um then like we know describe who you are yeah b or I could be your identity so in the um in like in the whole background to the SBT um a standard yes I also represent that you know like this most common um identity system right so um like for the distance wise networks which is a did by um with pre-construction so the idea from the centralized identities

75. 38:47

    um it's a very complex religion standard right but um there is a difference so SBT and like what we represent here we are not trying to build or like create something um which could be um modeled as a did those are two completely different models right so um the the SBT approach will more phrase that you know like describe you like who you are I mean tell me about you and I will tell you you know who you are right so like

76. 39:20

    um it's like a whole set of descriptions yes whereas the ID it's uh is usually controlled by um uh some identity server um yes there is any ID document there's a uh at the identity methods authorization method so there's like a a whole big big framework right here we try to with with sbts yes we try to like describe the identity by basically like having a claims right or anything else that that could be bound to you

77. 39:57

    so you could have like a few Souls right technically right so you can have them hundreds of accounts uh every I mean I guess like everyone in this college has at least one account and that's normal right we're experimenting your building sometimes you don't know what we want to do and bear in mind with me about that because that's like a like having multiple accounts and like creating multiple

78. 40:23

    Souls but why identity is like one of the key problems you want to solve in the model we represent here um so the SBT was like coined by a paper called the centralized society and the idea here is is to create this ritual pluralistic ecosystem right so there's like a no one-way there's not like a single way how you know this identity can be created right so not like specifically with the idea or you know like um a state-owned

79. 41:00

    um issuer as a registered so let's say a passport or like a driving license but a pluralistic ecosystem right so uh maybe back in your smaller Community that's like a Meetup Community your your organization your company yes you could have like a one-way like another way for for something else and like in combination you can combine them and create like a different circles um so this like this determined Society is what souls and communities come

80. 41:33

    together it's like a bottom up right so you can have this again multi-mutical ways how how these claims can be created and you bought them up you you built um that uh society which is uh you know a phenomena and instead of like you know top down like trying to Envision with like you know a big big big stand up how the identity must work like for example the dit um the did stand back but that's like this crucial crucial determination um

81. 42:12

    probably the most important part about um uh about fpt models is that you know having kind of convertibility so there is no single way how um you know um we own the account um there is emerging need yes for having um not um like having account without that without the keys yes so um here is pushing up up with um these parts of Technology but even with that right like um pass out it's about how you know um

82. 42:51

    bandwidth to uh privately related to a device a device that's lost you need to have another key in your account and if you forget about it um yeah there are many points of failures yes there's NPC technology where you cannot distribute the key um there can be like normal this account abstraction right so you can have like a custody based solution that your account is represented Inside by it has to be on the dsl.cast so

83. 43:21

    um while we are talking about it right because like if you want to phrase that you know like we're creating the souls and you lose something or um when your identity will be stolen right there has to be a process for recoverability and this is a like a key Point here that uh non-transferable nft by definition is um cannot be SKT right because for respective we require recoverability mechanisms so there could be multiple ways whereas

84. 43:54

    contacts recoverability can work as it can be like by issuer so let's say if um you create an aspective for every um Meetup organization member and then you know if it's like a physical metabolent people know each other and when you lose a key or when for whatever reason you want to recover it in a different wallet then you can do it like you know um directly um uh similarly you know when you have a driving license you you lose a traffic

85. 44:26

    license you you find a request and and you apply for the driving license the old one will be um blocked block blocked right or um special registry yes so we know that the other one is not valid anymore uh social recovery yes so that's like the most convenient way how we can do it but this is like super challenging there are many simple actors right um Associated for for that mechanism so it requires a very strong convection and we

86. 44:58

    need to have a good way to measure that contradiction that basically this works we are not at this stage where where we kind of created we have ideas how we can do it but basically the model we provide is really uh built around that problem as well okay so here are like a few versions of based on like what we created so V1 um there was a lot of like they kind of ahead or talented challenging comments in the uh in the uh

87. 45:31

    uh pull requests for the standard uh most of the people who are like commenting it like did you know our history or like didn't know like you know why we arrived to that mechanism rather than another one so um yes I have like impression that people are commenting that you don't read correctly um the like the other comments or responses I mean we are busy so anyway so V1 was like what everyone

88. 46:01

    would expect so we have a a smartphone Fargo like you know if I create a token when I create any smart contract and um like every every SKT would be represented by a separate spot contract uh we also wanted to have compatibility with nft yes to like have the uh like compatibility with existing tooling ecosystem for free uh sorry we did that it was working uh actually the V1 didn't work with the NFC compatibility there

89. 46:33

    were like a few other issues with names and the in the indexer so um the the full compatibility compatibility in fact was like never actually because in the meantime we changed the design so um V2 yes we added like classes by issuer so something that we know to directly solve the problem what's you know a previous presentation was about like this monkey token we were already talking about it last year that

90. 47:04

    um we need to have classes well at the beginning yes we were like finding a reason and doing the classes or do we don't want to cut the classes because let's say again like if if there is a claim right like technically it should not be possible to have two same claims for the same um for the same entity right like you should not have to say um the gift certificate right or two same licenses right so that doesn't make sense

91. 47:36

    but like when we were like researching more um uh the subject is we found that like in fact I think the classes opens up some optimizations but also uh some like a new ways how you can achieve uh so-called pseudo-anonymity okay um and if we free as we realized like like this we're just trying hard to make that this LST compatibility and you realize that okay it doesn't work anymore right because again like discussive concept right so don't translate to nft and like having some

92. 48:10

    default uh a fallback I mean like a default argument or a fallback right also like we have to change the response types so it didn't make any more any sense like we don't even considering okay like having this you know like limited compatibility but then we decided now that that would only confuse that tooling and the ecosystem so we said okay this is really something different than an LST so and before we in fact added the registry so from the V1 I need to say

93. 48:42

    that you know there was no registry but what we called the different sort of classes circles I call it Circle so like I said of of this you know of the stock transient would which would clarify um outside of these claims yes in a way a clarified portion of your identity yes by the people to who you like allowed to to present it I will talk about it later in this privacy um so in before we realized that when we

94. 49:15

    were implementing um so the soul transfer which is also like the the third most important feature of of the SBT model yes it doesn't work with the B1 V2 and E3 right so we had to have a petitioned queries to to basically make answers directly on chain um and like I mean one can argue like foreign queries you you use indexer well not really because um um what if you want to again like you know make good phrasing about about like a

95. 49:50

    specific you know set of claims about contract to contract of course smart contract doesn't have an access yes to the indexer well you can say there can be an oracle right which will like provide that but then you have like a caching validation problem right um and then you can say oh yeah maybe um uh maybe user will be in control of that or like applying some books so yes in fact like you are create I mean you are making it more complex so um uh the way why we created this registry is really

96. 50:23

    because like we went through the problems and we didn't find like a better solution they were like in the review there were proposed Technical Solutions to do it in another way but it didn't meet the requirements which I'm talking about here right so efficient contract to contract uh queries about like specific specific set of claims as well as atomic Atomic salt answer but fault transfer is something different than the

97. 50:49

    token transfer um uh that's really I think I have a side about it later on so um building my soul translated the third most important property um by the way for the efficient colors in fact something like you know zero knowledge proof could be could work we would need to have aggregation we didn't want to like you know solve another complex thing because um yes like idea of finding human and NDC so the near um the centralized Collective or digital

98. 51:22

    Collective right I mean we want to have it sooner than later it's not like if you just I'm like more and more challenging problems then you will go to like ethernet 2.0 problem and at some point you will need to reduce the scope anyway so um right so that's like a little bit of background and I hope that it explains like now and this registry is not like you know because because um we found out okay that's

99. 51:56

    um but either way but you know that's basically like the way how we think that correctly solves the problem we have um okay um so Israel so there were also attempts in related that register is too powerful okay so like in the next few slides I will talk about like a few comments and the claims of the review and we'll try to address that so people may say that Registries okay so uh okay well I think I didn't explain here is

100. 52:19

     that so the V4 the the shift is that um instead of having an issuer and the issue where like in a traditional way having like the smart contract issue of having its own balance book of the tokens and like all the balances are in the registry so uh the issue is rather simple right because the issue will basically um call the registry contract to uh to meet and registry in fact is also very simple because it only solves the uh the minting and the queries and this um

101. 52:51

     magic soil transfer method and there are a few other things I will talk about it later hey Robert I just wanted to say that we do have a hard stop in five minutes so if you wanted to um I know I'm sorry like we didn't quite okay so I will try to speed it up yeah so um and I also want to like make sure that we invite other people to ask questions or if they have any comments or that sort of thing but um

102. 53:20

     I think so yes is it register too powerful no because like if you look at the implementation right um the only way they say I don't think about the registry is like you know approving issuer I mean that could be like issue which is like fully powerless so adminus which basically only registers the tokens and and implements a full transfer method uh but I think like you know why testing issue versus if I think that in my opinion the registry should do and then compare it

103. 53:53

     to the social DB like you know manner it's it's quite similar right but social media is just like an another level of complexity in my opinion so if people claim that you know the registry is too powerful then I'll say how about social media so it's just a pattern right also like giving back how the how the New Year works uh when you registers I mean welcome to their permissions as well like we cannot bless one single registry and force everyone to use this registry so there is a market for improvement of

104. 54:23

     course right like then if someone wants to meet a token a registry a or a registry b or in an above Registries well you know kind of it's a case problem it's rather like you know if you want to have to issue two usdc tokens in the same chain you can why not right so you can do it but uh you need to have liabilities in front of that uh yeah then like a simple revoke recovery renewal I'm not going to talk about it so Soul transfer like this third most important one is is something very very specific so like in the first

105. 54:55

     class I said that you know you can have multiple wallets but then you mature and you define or actually for for the specific reason I would like to merge those Souls right so so for that like managing this account I mean I think it's it should be like understoodable that it must be Atomic right so um so that's like also like you know this um this registry comes handy here okay um privacy okay maybe like this one so um I mean there were claims that you

106. 55:28

     know it's a private because you know um the targets are registered on the blockchain well this is like the nature of the permissionless public blockchain right so um it's about the issue where I mean what the issue variable in fact like attach to a token if it's just a number yeah you can do some um um machine learning about like exploration of like you know who owns like which top 10 language account which tokens again it's numbers but even with that you can do some anonymization because you could have like a multiple

107. 56:00

     issuer IDs for the same entity right so let's say same confidence organizer and in fact be represented by a millions of identities I thought by a million of of accounts because like Innovation implementation as ours is we use it just as a number the worst case like you know you know like we can say that okay this account knows that sort of holds this this amount of tokens but um it's about like the issue where that's like you know providing like information

108. 56:31

     what the token really needs but with a zero knowledge proof like once this will arrive yes fully hide all the balances so again it's like a broader project a problem right like you know what kind of a privacy do we want and people could say that okay yes uh there's like totally detox the the whole ecosystem of like 99 of the blockchain apparently some agencies are already in the top so this

109. 56:56

     is the world so Robert I need to ask you to um to wrap up here is there any like conclusion that you want to give before we uh you know wrap this up yeah I mean at the conclusion like is no this is because like they were like the spicy topics or like comments about it so I hope that you know that was a clarified here well I guess I guess we'll probably have to bring this up again at a future meeting then because you have a

110. 57:31

     five seconds left so uh thanks so much for presenting um looks like we're not going to get to um James today unfortunately um but thank you everybody who showed up and thank you for presenting and hopefully we can get to uh maybe just one love like if everyone if everyone wants to like you know like collaborate or you know share some comments like no go ahead to their pull request and leave

111. 57:56

     a comment over there all right well sounds good um anyway once again thank you everybody for showing up to the first uh contract standards Community call I hope that we'll be doing more of these in the future and you know hopefully they stay productive so thanks everyone Thanks Max will thanks all bye