DevHub Live 13 - Blind Tool Rankings, Clip Show

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:28

   e e hey everyone uh I'm Joe I'm your host of Dev Hub live uh but today we're not actually live live we are do something a little bit different since it's a holiday here in the United States so this episode we pre-record a segment on ranking some tools that I think everyone's going to find really fun uh and then we're going to show some kind of like best of highlight Clips on the second half of the episode uh so stay tuned check it out we will be live live

2. 1:25

   next Thursday 5:00 P p.m. UTC uh as always enjoy the show welcome so today we're going to do a little bit different kind of segment uh we're going to try to do some blind rankings so o and I here got a list of a bunch of the tooling it's not comprehensive it's most of the stuff in near more the more used uh Tools around the in your ecosystem and we're going to actually just rank them but we're going

3. 1:49

   to do it in a randomized fashion so we have no idea what's coming we're going to randomize each of different tool set and we're going to try to put them in our in our top 10 you ready Owen all right right let's go I'm ready sorry if we rank your to last all right first one up is all right is near CLI RS this is the rust uh T Tool uh I I know where I would probably where so well when it first came out I was not too Keen to be honest but now I

4. 2:37

   absolutely love it um and do you remember that issue that showed up you know like GitHub issues someone put up um one saying no issue here I just love this tool everyone every ecosystem should have this because it has like the instead of having to remember all the commands and like type it in you literally just type near and then you can do everything so I'm really in between like one and

5. 3:08

   two here I it's the same thing where it's a little bit of learning curve because I used the JavaScript tooling for so long it just took my it wasn't even learning curve it was just like a mindset difference but I absolutely love it I do think it is one of the top tools I think it's probably my number one right off the bat I think this is probably my number number one I feel like it's so risky putting one straight oh let's do it let's do it all

6. 3:42

   right uh yeah let's let's let's make it look nicer absolutely let's do the randomizer and the next one up is oh okay so near API JavaScript so the the JavaScript API library now this is a very popular one this is obviously used a lot um I think yeah I think like it's a great tool and I think it's quite easy to use but it's difficult to to interact with like multiple wallets and stuff and that's where sort of there's

7. 4:35

   a a a weird connection between near API GS and and wallet selector so I'm thinking somewhere around the middle yeah I think that's a great point about some you know some of those hangups there uh it's definitely been improved it still has definitely some room to grow uh I like the middle you thinking five six what you what are you thinking let's let's put it at number six give us a bit of room or top all right let's hit that randomizer again here we go next

8. 5:15

   up the same one we need we need the we need the spinny wheel keeps G me the same too hold on oh I don't want to to l d there we go okay my bad here we go all right the next one up is Jutsu Jutsu is the front if you haven't seen before it's a front end Builder it builds for reacton chain they're also just recently came on to have live and talked about their new AI Builder uh but it is focused mostly on front ends uh I don't know how much

9. 5:52

   experience you've had using two Owen but uh it's pretty solid tool all the way through yeah there's a lot of people who would like die hard chill JSU um zahed is a great guy as well um I don't know it it was it's built for boss right and boss is somewhat being phased out so I wonder where they're going to they're going to go in the future maybe just generic front ends or like web four front ends so I think

10. 6:38

    it's it's a difficult one not sure but it is great for building like a front end real quick and I really like the like collaboration tools on there because boss have being quite difficult to collaborate on by itself so I think that really yeah what I love the collaboration piece uh I do think for like rapid prototyping especially U as someone who does not like building front ends and that is not my expertise I do really appreciate the

11. 7:11

    tool a lot I've used it a bunch in my own projects uh I do wonder what's next I know you know the stuff on Boss react on chain is more just being mov to the community and so it is a little bit incumbent on what happens there uh their new AI tool they just released called Bento was interesting I haven't used it yet um that focuses on both web 3 and regular react front ends so I think it's pretty strong I probably put it somewhere around like the 4ish range I

12. 7:48

    think it's my top half I you know I just like I said I think there's some ambiguity of like what's next so I probably would probably leave it towards closer to like 4ish myself yeah let's let's stick it in a for I think yeah Bento is really cool with um maybe it was on dev Hub live that demo they did you could just or maybe the um tooling Community call you could just like screen grab um an

13. 8:24

    existing front end or whatever and say give me the code for this aome all right the next one up is we got cargo cargo near cargon so this is if people don't know well every time I'm creating a new I think I think we're lagging a bit um go on go on contract uh this is kind of the way to kind of get started uh it gives you a boiler plate and kind of gets you going uh this is on the rust side because obviously cargo is the package manager for for rust uh it's a

14. 9:07

    fairly popular uh tooling set because obviously it's around smart contracts yeah well I mean I use this tool every time I create a rust smart contract so it's it's pretty useful I really like the um Dev container that sort of goes along with it which lets you um code in like a a GitHub workspace um so you don't have to install Rost and and cargo and whatever so I'm I'm thinking I want to leave the

15. 9:54

    number two spot open and I really like cargo so I'm thinking like number three but like we've got so many slots open at the bottom well so it's what you think one thing I think is if we're trying to be somewhat objective is so from a a building standpoint and I don't really know the numbers offside my head but are more people you know still making contracts using JavaScript and if so like is that should that tool be higher up if it shows up might not even show up in our

16. 10:34

    list here so I'm a little bit like uh but again I it is really well used I don't really have a problem with I don't really feel like I ever complain about it um you know it's fairly just steady but yeah it's hard for me to put it like in the top because it's not I guess I I sounds bad it feels expected like I should be able to just do this it doesn't really give me anything extra yeah there's no like when you're using it you're not like whoa like a nearing

17. 11:16

    IRS but like i' I like I like you said I've not had any problems with what we thinking five or seven let's let me okay I I know that I know that more people might use JavaScript but we know like right Rost is a better smart contract language right so let's put it five I know I'm just a JavaScript yeah let's let's let's do five think that looks good all right let's see what we got these B well speaking of JavaScript the next one up is uh create near

18. 12:05

    app so this is going to generate a a uh a front end that has some of the key features uh like wall selector built right already in part of that package have you used this much yeah I I always used to use this before cargo near because I think you can um again you can like create a rust app or a Javascript app and mix a match between the front ends um I feel like I don't have as smooth experience with it

19. 12:52

    as I do with cargo near but it is more expansive like I am pretty sure you can have like boss front ends with it um sort of pre-employ um not deployed but like the you know what I mean so I mean I'm not sure I feel like we should have maybe ranked it where cargo near is and cargo near a little lower car back ring here's my hangup I guess with it a little bit and again uh one is it does give you a next app so I do write next I prefer next um but some

20. 13:35

    people don't so that might be um a little frustrating for some people uh they're I agree I don't always feel like it is always the smoothest thing and part of that is like I think npm and package management and the chaos that comes with that in JavaScript so some of that is like again my my frustration with JavaScript maybe more than this tooling but I do feel like it kind of knocks on this tooling a little bit for

21. 14:10

    me yeah and and talking about like nextjs and and whatever the whatever framework it's using doesn't really bother me um because I'm I'm not a front end guy I don't really enjoy front end I don't not really bothered about what framework like I I know react right but like even even the other day was it yesterday I was messaging you like should I create this app with nextjs or react or what so it's not it's not

22. 14:42

    really thing for me to consider um seven three I I person would go on the lower end yeah know I think see I don't think the use to me is that there is much because I think where people are now to are probably more likely to lean towards like building out your own apis rather use the near API you probably use the wallet selector separately you know I know this kind of puts that all together and tries to simplify it I just

23. 15:14

    don't feel like it's you know it's not the same category as we've already kind of put up up top eight all right that was good it eight all right he we should have rank let's see what comes up we still have some more to go here okay all right fast near now fast near is an interesting one yeah because this encompasses a few different things they have their own RPC um they have some data availability that you you can pull in data avilability available data that you can actually you

24. 16:03

    know call through their API so get information like uh token Holdings so uh pretty useful really wellb built uh really fast uh but very specific use cases an RPC specific is it no but the the token data you know if you don't need that token data yeah i' I've not used Fast myself yet it's relatively new and the the guys who are building on it who were building it are like really smart so I'm sure it's great we had them on the dev Hub

25. 16:52

    live uh yeah Eugene like second um some of the stuff with uh chard dog uh it is very fast uh it really it lives up to its name uh and yeah I mean it's top tier near Builders doing it they're really thinking about really carefully thinking about infrastructure uh I think it's still a little bit immature in where I think there's probably some room to grow and they want they acknowledge that too if you look at some of their postings and

26. 17:26

    writeups about some of the stuff of they're trying to get to this point to have a little bit more robustness of everything but uh it's on mainnet and testut uh which is nice and so you do have some flexibility there uh now where to put it though is little tough I'm thinking sort of seven or nine maybe like it's it seems like it's going to become a great tool that everyone's going to be using but I feel like it still needs some time

27. 18:06

    to prove itself so that's why I'm thinking lower down yeah I so I feels similar when if we were comparing just like rpcs and performance like it's right at the top there but when you talk about like General tooling and everything else yeah it's it's good it's solid so how do you feel should we you want to give it a nine seven let's let's let's put it in a nine hopefully next time we can rank it first sure for sure all right let's see

28. 18:50

    what we got next we do this oh well this is actually deprecated now pretty much uh near C JF so we could skip that one if we want I feel like we have to rank it okay and I think it makes things EAS um yeah near CJs I memorized most of the commands uh when like I said when the the Russ CLI came out I was still using the GS one for a bit before I realized how good the Russ command line is but

29. 19:39

    now it's sort of getting deprecated yeah um and you're actually going to be able to still use the CLI um JS commands in the rust CLI which is cool so if you have some like pre-built scripts then you can still run them fine um but I think it's time we bury it yeah I'm with you I'm same way like I had memorized a lot of the stuff uh I had some my own little script set up uh especially because we were using it

30. 20:18

    heavily for setting up like you know new mints and things like that uh but now like when you see the difference from like the Russ ver to this version like it's night and day and so I think it is still still technically alive but yeah let's time for it to go it does it does make life a little bit easier yeah I think the only the only thing I prefer about the JS version is just the commands are a little bit shorter and maybe easier to understand so

31. 20:59

    I I do like that you will still be able to run them um like in the in the short future at least I don't know about in Long future yeah all right I think that made our yeah our life easier that one pop okay so next one up is the actual near SDK Java Script do you want to talk a little bit about what this is so did you know we have our main SDK which is the near SDK RS the rust version uh which you is your go-to for building like

32. 21:49

    production smart contracts just because it's generally safer it has like statically typ fa right and um and it's it's quite a bit more gas efficient like your with JavaScript SDK you're fine using that for like a hackathon project right um there's actually a benchmark repo somewhere and for really small applications like like guest book um in the tutorials the the gas difference really isn't that much but when you get

33. 22:28

    up to to something higher like um I think one of the examples are uh in The Benchmark it's like an nft Marketplace the gas differences is really a big deal and if you're trying to build something uh quite complex you can run into that um gas limit quite quickly but the great thing about this SDK is that yeah people know JavaScript right you you pick up a person random person person off off the street they're 10 times more likely to

34. 23:02

    know JavaScript than they are Rost and if you want to onboard people then JavaScript is your way to go really um but that being said we're moving towards chain abstraction and Ai and I feel like a lot of these devs are um are like really quite experienced and a lot of them would know rust not as much as they probably know python being in AI I'd like to see a python to be honest that'd be cool just because I prefer python

35. 23:42

    than JavaScript and it has that AI integration element um but and and I'm rambling on a bit here because it's it's a difficult decision to make um and historically the JavaScript SDK wasn't that well M maintained the focus was on the rust side um and there was even like a warning message saying like this is beta technology but more recently like the past month we had version two come out

36. 24:16

    so it's nice to see it getting some love but I feel like the rust SDK is going to pop up next and they need to rank it higher so so I'm I'm thinking seven I that point you just made I think uh towards the end there is what kind of drives home for me of like why it's a little bit lower uh it was not well well maintained early on uh it's definitely for the most part W wasn't like heavy

37. 24:48

    production ready um for a while and I don't even know if it's still says it for a while like in the docks or somewhere it actually said like don't use for def5 um things like that so I when you take those things into account yeah yeah I think that's being removed now yeah so I think where it's come from and I know it's getting better uh I just I a this might be a little bit of of bias as well where like I do feel like you should probably be at the better language um

38. 25:22

    I'm not a great rust developer by any means but I do feel more comfortable putting things out there in production that are built with that versus the JavaScript one so for me I would probably put it out of seven yeah let's I I think we're we're feeling the same on that one two more two more let's see here it is let's see it be something like like go all right well speak of the devil the near fdk rust version

39. 26:07

    so um I feel like we've sort of discussed this and it's it's a case between number two or number three I think I'd go for two I think I'd put it put it up there um how how you feel I I probably would probably I would probably say two as well you know I mean you never know what else could come trying to think of like what else could show up where I'm like well maybe something else might rank a little bit higher and I want to leave that spot open but yeah I think from everything

40. 26:42

    we've said and it keeps coming up two is probably the the move here because I'm not I'm not actually even sure what was left that we could actually have pop up so it could be interesting where yeah I think apart from like the protocol level like yeah everything is built on this right all your Productions SP do it so like there's so much on this so I feel like it goes number last one here

41. 27:19

    it is and it is going to be oh we work spaces the air work spaces I I do not so I am not a good representative of this so near workpace is is for for testing right um I'm like sometimes you got to be a bit Rogue and not do any tests so I I don't really use it either but I know some people love it uh we don't we don't really have a choice here so he's going to number three yeah I think um not anything

42. 28:11

    negative necessarily about you know like you said people like it I just don't really use it much um but here it is so uh not a bad list as we see it's very rust heavy at the top which makes sense so this clearly a rust versus JavaScript bias bias here you can see there's like a cut off line um you know minus Jutsu like everything else is pretty much JavaScript at the bottom half um but

43. 28:37

    this is great and I I think uh did that by intention this is though I think shows the the fact that it's a hard decision to me is encouraging about the state of Tooling in Mir and I do think that like as uh more of this continues to grow we're seeing more contributors to some of this tooling I hope that these discussions continue to actually get harder because everything is so good

44. 29:11

    cool if we could rank ever in first we will perfect well uh so how how did you feel how did you feel about the final list ah good question you know um I don't hate it I don't hate this list uh you know again I workspaces yeah probably would put a little bit lower just I don't really use it um there's a few that may have come up that you know would maybe put some different spots like you know like Walt selector didn't show up uh let's see

45. 29:45

    what else didn't show up things like keom didn't show up uh near Lake uh you know so we still have some ones that didn't come in here but I feel pretty good and I think the one and two I feel pretty solid about yeah yeah I think could have like you said carger is quite boring um it's good tool but it's quite boring and it's something you expect so I think I would have ranked that a

46. 30:21

    little bit lower um but yeah overall I quite happy with the list and N work awesome uh well this was fun and uh I we we should do we should definitely do more of these um but I hope everyone enjoyed this part and yeah send ideas we we'll we'll rank them we can we can go through but I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff that we can do as mentioned at the top uh here are some clips highlights from previous episodes uh make sure you're following our socials to keep up with all of this

47. 31:03

    uh and enjoy these clips see you next week live live every Thursday 5:00 p.m. UTC you can create a query something like hey give me a fundable token balance at a given height of the blockchain and it will find what was the wasm file at um at this like what was the VM contract at this height of the blockchain load it into JavaScript worker like web assembly and then start executing it and request

48. 31:40

    storage from this uh llm lmdb um uh database so that service is actually way faster than uh or like because it doesn't have a gas meter associated with calls and when the data is cached it's very fast in terms of like when the contracts are cashed this is this use case is an example of a complicated place where introducing businesses and uh instead of making something a public good actually makes things very inconvenient for everybody

49. 32:31

    else so uh so if the chain signatures if if we would be living in the world when we were thinking about chain signatures um only now when the infrastructure committee is here and we would be deciding uh to create an RFP for doing the chain signatures I would strongly vouch for making it a public good instead of pushing it to become a proper business with a business model one of the things that comes to

50. 33:03

    mind here with all this AI stuff right is like the real reliability of the AI itself how are you guys approaching that like I saw like we showed you the transaction before it did it then just like execute on its own but what are other mechanisms you guys are thinking about to you know protect against that yeah uh so just kind of like uh when you go into in exchanges and you put in a sloppy number and then some pops up and says hey you idiot why why

51. 33:34

    are you or if something's over let's say 25 bucks or something we can start putting safeguards into the system that basically says are you sure this looks like a pretty intense thing you're trying to do um also on the road map is starting to build the fraud protection uh mechanisms and then when we start importing uh other AI agents um that's when we're really going to have to uh dig deep in making sure that uh it's not

52. 33:59

    doing anything that you don't want like let's say Let's Do a Swap and then the reality is the transaction that gets built uh sends happier funds to someone else so if you go into mint base and you make a transaction you can drill into all of what you're doing right we show what functions you're calling on what contract how much of each different piece you're doing uh we also built an AI agent that explains with human

53. 34:24

    readable text uh what the transaction is that you're trying to do so it's it's weird to say that AI fixes everything but it it it's it kind of is and we know things could could get tricky if we get too far ahead of ourselves uh it's the most mind-blowing thing it's basically any data you see as a user in any web interface so would it be you know your deliveries or your Banking balance or your professional credentials or

54. 34:55

    ownership of a certain nft if you can see it on a on a website is now available not only on chain but with uh with web like this web two data source yeah and I abolutely believe that you know both web 3 data and web two should be combined I was uh I was working in analytics for a long time and I see it as a like very well-rounded approach to research your wall data matching it with uh with classical analytics tools which

55. 35:29

    are you know available on all across the web what makes fast near unique and different than some of the current uh provider options right now so we provide a bunch of stuff um and we plan to provide even more so um the first product that we released called Fast near API um that kind of was intended to be a replacement for Kit wallet uh read endpoints and uh this this end points I

56. 35:59

    effectively do things so it is stuff that is commonly used by the wallets that is not readily available through the regular RPC of the blockchain so stuff that needs kind of like reverse lookups building everything from uh secondary markets Creator Suites to wallets to developer templates to uh AI transaction building bits it's a it's a lot right but we have to build a lot because a lot of this stuff doesn't exist so

57. 36:36

    yep why I guess like where does the impetus for using AI to start building out transactions come from just because it's more efficient in the long term I I think like as a developer you know how this is right you can start building something you're not really sure what you can do once you do that but once you've learned those few things you kind of go oh crap now I know how to

58. 36:59

    do these things now I can do these 70 things once I can do those 70 things I can do these thousands of things with AI it's like okay great we built uh and from a single prompt like mint base is complex you can mint you can deploy contracts you can list you can buy you can add mentors just like a dow and we realize we can do all that from a prompt right right so instead of spending you

59. 37:23

    know weeks of developer time creating a sweep floor mechanism you know with a little sliding bar and all this stuff you can just go into a prompt and say on the smart contract this buy all the nfts for less than two two near and then you're done like you've built that transaction through a prompt and I don't want to spend all that time doing that and then we kind of took a step back and went okay can we create a defi swap

60. 37:47

    mechanism in the same regard and that's when we're kind of going oh shoot uh now I think that we're entering a new field of our team of 15 death can cross so many different boundaries this mostly conving in two aspect one is that uh don't you won't need to think about like malicious activity yes you need to be like fall tolerant but mostly you're tolerating uh no that are like uh machines that are like offline because like they uh so something happen with like battery or whatever like this is

61. 38:21

    like gone or something but but then like no no machine is like going to M attack others like no sh is going toly attacking other shs uh and you don't need to think about what what will happen when that happens uh and and then actually that is why like starting broading is a lot more difficult is because of this um uh you know games like this in the security aspect of like what we need to do to to get to design uh things that work well uh against those Cas and also like the gain sertic

62. 38:52

    incentives that they all need to deign to make it work uh and I think the the second aspect is more I would say like uh engineering related right so because you have the centralized control of the entire system it just actually you can like know what's happening on every single machine like you can like design like centralized loging J system to analyze what's happening on every single

63. 39:16

    machine where you need to debug something and you do have that full view of the entire system um but actually in blockchains you don't have that luxury and uh it that makes like things like debugging very difficult you did some examples here examples that people can actually including the burger party um see if it loads up this might be my there you go yeah so you get you know

64. 39:41

    and I think this was great because being able to try this out and I think when people see this and they see okay this is very standard right like this is no different than any other event thing you sign up for right give me some information here's how many tickets do I need and go from there is a really interesting proposition because it doesn't feel like the what we think of today as web 3 right like this is now yeah it's anything else to use and notice that you're not even signed in

65. 40:14

    you don't have a wallet you don't have anything right all you need to do is just get the ticket and that's it right and and the interesting part too here is you'll notice that there's some organizer questions right and that's another feature that we've added which I think is is really cool because over the years we've gotten a lot of feedback hey I want to know who is coming to my event I want to know where they're from I want to know if they're a newcomer I want to know if they've been here before and for

66. 40:38

    the longest time we had no way of doing that because I'm not going to put your like we don't host any databases right we don't Mo most of the stuff is on chain with the exception of like stripe and our email worker uh which are both nice to have so they're not necessary for this to work um and so we didn't know how to do it but we took a cryptography class in our last year of school and it was the coolest thing ever and we learned a ton and we spent a lot of time with like the teacher talking through some of these things and so with

67. 41:09

    the power of uh a lot of cryptography and endend encryption um all of this information that you're providing uh is all accessible to the uh to the EV organizer you can ask custom questions you can you can do whatever you want right what is your favorite color that's not a standard question I put that in there right tell me a joke please with the c in the smiley face right that's not a standard question I as the event organizer when I went to set up this

68. 41:33

    event I asked for those specific questions I marked one as required one is not required right and that's all encapsulated in this like no code event creation portal right um and so yeah that's another really cool feature and then um in my event uh like I can browse through my events and I can view all that information I can view who's been scanned in who didn't attend I can you know download it all as a CSV you know I

69. 42:00

    can see how many tickets were purchased all that kind of stuff it's all accessible um in the app which is another awesome thing and what was the purpose of encrypting all of this is it to are you putting it into a smart contract still or is it actually it's it's all on chain uh but it's all end to end encrypted right when a new contract is deployed how is that determined of where that goes is it just totally randomized or is there actually a mechanism that's actually Distributing those no it's not

70. 42:33

    totally randomized uh so basically there today the the the boundaries are like hardcode this this because we don't have Dynamic rearing en label so essentially today every time we need to do a rearing we we do need to compute the uh new boundaries ourselves and then we we do like a code change to say well this is now the new boundaries and uh uh yeah then then we do this release and then that would actually take take effect that would you know trigger restarting and and then the new boundar would take effect but then we imagine that in the

71. 43:06

    future it won't be this way the the system will dynamically calculate where the boundaries are and then starting get triggered I want to think the developer perspective a little bit and so some developers might know the concept of sharting from databases so if you're coming from non-blockchain you that it's not like a brand new term necessarily uh how would you compare this though to

72. 43:28

    like a database sharting setup versus how this is actually set up yeah I think in a lot of ways it is similar uh but as you probably know like starting in distributed database is also a difficult thing like um and not not many people have and thought right um so and then in the blockchain world it's even more difficult because in in distribute database the Vantage you have is that you have like centralized control of the entire system and

73. 43:57

    I mean this this mostly covering uh in two aspect one is that uh you won't you won't need to think about like malicious activity the smart contract is just basically an application that you deploy to uh to the service but instead of deploying your application to AWS or uh gcp infrastructure which um can decide to switch it off or to to do anything with that you deploy it to to the blockchain and then you interact with

74. 44:30

    your application not directly not going to AES but instead you interact with the RPC nodes and RPC nodes are your basically um uh API service or API Gateway or or reverse Ser reverse proxy like engine x uh for example which just knows how to route it's it's a it's a frontier of the service and it just knows how to route the uh requests down to the application um and those those those applications the the sever uh so-called

75. 45:09

    application a contract or app in near it uh it has its own local storage uh it has uh we have some a uh sdks and it can also interact with other applications uh that are alike and stored on the same blockchain which is which allows us to be even more um uh composable and build more apps because your your interface is now not uh the the HTTP that could be um that could be not available at certain point you actually are the applications are internally

76. 45:54

    communicating with each other right uh through the protocol Primitives so-called cross contract calls um but let's not go too deep into it right um back to the analogy um the the several list is the the the backand so the the contract are basically backends right uh with with a with a mixture of a database and the compute um and your and you have a standardized um API that you can expect to talk with

77. 46:31

    your application so you don't need to worry about uh rest versus uh I don't know uh RPC and also to make projects you know kind of uh be a little bit more adult in general so when they are thinking about building up the project when for example somebody for example uh Bill a wallet they need to think about the usage of the RPC that this thing is not for free though they can get some of

78. 47:03

    the RPC for free but then they need to think about how this is going to work how they're going to generate money in order to pay for it in the future so they need to have some kind of business model around the wallet they need to to think about this and that's absolutely okay that this business model is not yet proven or is not fully working for them to be able to cover all of the cost

79. 47:27

    that's that's not a problem that's pretty amazing yeah I'd like to also chime in a bit uh the the most important part is as Eric said is to to keep the balance between um buying everything like basically giving giving out grants to every single idea and like involve as many teams as possible uh and at the same time maintaining the budget lean uh the uh so far it it it results in several discussions about especially

80. 48:04

    like um competing offers for example RPC infrastructure on near is becoming uh um more reach with different providers trying to offer uh their Solutions um but at the same time it seems like the um ecosystem or economy or around the RPC ecosystem is not there yet and uh I I I will uh give a spoiler here I guess uh since we didn't openly communicate in in a uh written form yet but the uh something that we want to to

81. 48:43

    build is this uh economy of infrastructure in near system where we do not directly sponsor the uh leaves on the infrastructure the infrastructure itself but actually we want to see the usage of that infrastructure and we will encourage the projects to actually pay for the infrastructure and we will uh cover that cost for the projects so they can manage this budget themselves rather than us making those sometimes not uh

82. 49:16

    educated uh decisions because we don't know the law the each application is given to each of the providers um is the top proc run to about building sustainability into projects that they have to be a little bit more conscious around that exactly yeah and and to end here like you don't want them to be entirely dependent on on you know this committees grants generally right now I think you know

83. 49:45

    this kind of varies but the the current price for indexing an entire subgraph uh depending on how big it is and how complex it is is about 3,000 GRT um so you basically pay the 3,000 JT into the contract and that kind of incentivizes all of the indexers to pick it up so as of right now if you probably did that you'd probably get at least six to 12 indexers that would be interested in

84. 50:07

    picking it up and they would store it for you and then you get um 100,000 free queries per month so that's kind of a lot um you know you can kind of calculate that by based on like traffic and what you expect on your um your application but you get 100,000 free queries and then after that all the quers are priced in GRT according to like the network um but it's very very cheap um you know it's probably at least like five to 10 times cheaper than if you were to like store and serve data on let's say something like AWS or like

85. 50:41

    Google Cloud um and you can also get estimations so you can kind of start with that 100,000 free queries and you can kind of see how much traffic you're getting and kind of guesstimate on on what's going to be the overall costs nice how does it you you mentioned like you know some of the the web 2 type of stuff how does it compare to that just like I know some hard with the price fluctuation stuff but how would

86. 51:05

    you is it on par to having to set up like you know uh something that that's on like AWS storing whatever else cheaper I mean well the nice thing is that you don't have to it's much cheaper it's a lot cheaper like I said it's about five times cheaper than if you were to do like Google Cloud plus you'd have to manage it you know what I mean um so yeah they really been of the graph is that you just like deploy it pay the

87. 51:30

    pay that GRT and it gets picked up on the network and then you're just utilizing the token and so yeah there's a a lot of power there and it's really easy to do and uh I think you're basically yeah you're able to save some money um and you're able to do it like with ease and not have to worry about managing the infrastructure