Chain Abstraction Community Call #3 - near/dev/hub

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:05

   okay so hello everyone again and welcome to the Third Edition of the chain abstraction Community call nice to see you all again um so yeah what are these calls for I've been having a think about this lately so there's a few things like announcements I reiterate chain abstraction release we'll talk about that a bit um sharing of ideas so often we have people come and present like what they're building um and this can help people have ideas

2. 0:47

   for what they want to build build and like how others have done that and then people can give feedback and be like hey why didn't you do it this way um and we can try and work on these calls to try and produce like unnecessary overlap and and Foster collaboration so if we realize that two people are working on the same thing hey why don't we work together um and align on important issues and other things so for example I

3. 1:19

   think it was on the last call we had um a repo discussing and we was talking about like naming conventions for the library so things like that um yeah everyone's free to uh talk and get involved and whatnot but we have some proposed topics to start with so chain signatures release I'm sure everyone knows that by now um diffuse I think we have someone from there coming on to talk about diffuse which is like multichain Dex infrastructure then well this one isn't

4. 2:03

   really chain abstraction I suppose this is a chain abstraction chain signatures call so using chain signatures to uh derive and use other near accounts uh Benji will take the lead on that one and then any other further discussion uh that people want to bring up so David did you have anything you wanted to say about the main net release further to that just that um I'm really proud of the teams work on it like it was you know it's out it's working give it a go I'm really proud of the teams working

5. 2:37

   around and um like the engineers working a lot to get it out and uh Kendall see proximity doing on the marketing I was super impressed with uh like watching theuse and Bitters demo and all these kind of things coming together the things we've been working on so just I I guess my point is I'm generally very happy about how how things have gone the network Shug you along happily um

6. 3:01

   post launch it obviously we're going to have them's going to take a bit of time off the sort of 1.01 release is going to be we're going to cut down a little bit on how much gas it cost call it it's a bit high right now we didn't quite have enough time to optimize that down before launch um and then just it's going to be making a bit more robust over the next month and then on to scaling an EDSA so that's and hopefully a more low latency way of using it so we're Hing to do a

7. 3:24

   sort of sub 1 second latency um sign process here by the end of the year even if you have to maybe be a little sort of near parallel to do it um so yeah it's really excited I'm I really really believe in this product um our team is betting everything on it um and we're gonna see basically try and get as many people signing as many kids as possible so yeah really happy you guys

8. 3:47

   will this SCH yeah it's awesome to see that there's so many products already like ready to launch and launching it's just amazing does anyone want to add on to that well I think this by David's team for sure you personally and then also David's team and and everybody else who's involved yeah just seconding that super excited a great great job everyone I'm glad glad it's here um so

9. 4:30

   ah just in time uh do we want to move on to diffuse then I'm sure you guys heard a little bit about it yesterday yeah congrats everyone um so shall we move on to diffuse do you have any slides you want to share I can take down my screen and we can dive into that hey Alex yeah absolutely would love to do this I have some slides I can share it I'll stop presenting okay okay I hope you're able to see my my screen so uh hello everybody

10. 5:21

    congratulations everyone with the launch of the chain signatures on the main net that's a tremendous achievement um and that's absolutely a great thing to see especially because of the different projects that now can use this great infrastructure for the benefit of building themselves out and one of such projects is called diffuse this is something that uh we are working with multiple partners on by saying we I'm saying aora labs and uh we get quite a bunch of support from the near side so

11. 5:54

    big big thanks for contributing into this indeed open protocol and I'm going to shortly talk about this protocol here right so we were starting with the very simple idea that uh in the world of crypto at the moment um centralized exchanges are the dominant markets and as you can see here on the right hand side uh up until recently decentralized exchanges have been constituting approximately like 10% of the total

12. 6:28

    volume of the trades um and the reason for this is pretty simple centralized exchanges have absolutely great user experience they allow you to trade assets extremely fast uh however they also have problems and the problems are usually concentrated in the letter c which is centralized centralization is a problem uh and it Bears quite a lot of risks so we have all C centralized exchanges uh being

13. 6:56

    hacked uh being misusing of the user funds and stuff like that besides that they are very very slow uh in the addition of additional networks and also with addition of uh new assets if you will take a look at the major centralized exchanges um there are they are usually supporting only three L2 Solutions these are Optimus optimism arbitrament base and no others however there are already approximately 100 of l2s or even more than that that are launched so that's the slow

14. 7:36

    lest uh on the other hand side we have decentralized exchanges Unfortunately they are mostly limited to a single blockchain but they are also given a very fast trading experience uh but the problems with the liquidity the problem with the usage inability to have the multi-chain assets trading on these exchanges all of this contributes to not a very high usage of decentralized exchanges but uh they are very robust since everything is located in the smart

15. 8:07

    contracts and unless there is a bug in a smart contract which also can be circumvented uh with a proper security measures around the projects uh unless that's the case centralized decentralized exchanges are extremely robust uh and uh they are working 247 without any limitations so there is an idea of bridging this Gap in between these two and create a new type of product that is going to be

16. 8:41

    decentralized permissionless however will deliver great uh user experience and ability to work with the multi-chain assets and obviously the core technology that enables of creation of such a product is chain signatures so we are developing such a project it is called diffuse at the moment it's in the alpha stage and what diffuse is it is a scalable multi-chain defi infrastructure that facilitates the

17. 9:13

    creation and trading of financial instruments with minimized centralization risks while unifying liquidity across crypto ecosystems and if we are going to dive a little bit deeper into this thing then uh the features that were mentioned on the previous slides are obviously multi-chain right so this is what chain abstraction and specifically chain signatures is bringing in diffuse so an ability to uh trade tokens from

18. 9:44

    different networks diffuse also has an intent based architecture that's a kind of more or less new architecture in comparison with the amm style architecture that was existing before intents are allowing us to create a really scalable and horizontally scalable protocol that utilizes all of the power of the near blockchain uh it also is pretty flexible in terms of uh defining how people are trading so for example U users will be

19. 10:22

    able to uh uh specify which market makers they would like to work with and this is a new piece of functionality that is not existent neither on decentralized amm style exchanges nor in decentralized exchanges moreover diffuse brings us through chain signatures much more than just spot assets trading it brings us the concept of account F and a concept of trading accounts and these accounts can have multiple different stores of

20. 10:53

    value inside of it and we're going to talk about it a little bit later all of the contracts in fuse have sharded design and that's very specific and that's a very intentional thing that we are doing to make sure that diffuse will never ever have a bottleneck uh and it will be able to to support any amount of users that are on boarded to the near protocol and uh last but not least it is a fully open protocol so anyone is as I

21. 11:26

    I was saying on the previous slide everyone is able to create their own financial instruments launch them and trade them using diffuse protocol we're thinking of diffuse as a three-party Marketplace on one hand side there are distribution channels and users who are willing to use it on the other hand side there are active Market participants the ones who are actively seeking for the intents that were created by the users and are trying to fill in this intents

22. 11:57

    these these Mark these parties are using usually referred to as market makers or solvers and there is a third part which is kind of not directly presented during the intent um execution and this part is Echo systems or Founders who are launching tokens or launching new financial instruments there all of these uh parties are connected with each other Founders I wouldn't to have an exposure to the users so most probably in between the

23. 12:29

    distribution and Founders uh there are some incentives that are distributed Founders also are willing market makers and solvers to create markets for their assets and their financial instruments so there might be for example uh agreements on the liquidity provisioning from Founders to the market makers while market makers are trying to convince distribution channels to work with them so there might be some rebates in

24. 12:53

    between these two parties theuse is at a very very early stage of the development it is kind of semi existent semi no there are not a lot of marketing around it so uh it's only calls like this where you're able to find a little bit of information about diffuse it is available in Alpha version uh you are able to find all of the existing information about diffuse on diffuse here right now moreover we are happy to announce that um right after the development and deployment on the main

25. 13:36

    net of the um chain signatures we already have for now in the stage environment an ability to uh to trade on diffuse Bitcoin and also base assets assets from the evm chain uh L2 base so pretty soon this functionality is going to lend Direct on the app. deus.

26. 14:03

    org and Diving a little bit deeper into the features right as I was saying that it's much more than just a single spot trading it is the whole concept of account fi and uh it brings to us lots of different things and first of all um I would like to stop on the remittance use case so through diffuse people who are willing to have an exposure to the multi-chain assets um since these assets are going to be um controlled by the

27. 14:36

    near based accounts it also means that these assets can be transferred by near based accounts um at speed and cost that is typical to the near blockchain which means that the cost of transaction of transferring of any token on any blockchain will be the cost of transaction on near which is below uh a single scent so it's a fraction of a scent and the speed for this transaction is uh not more than just a couple of seconds besides that since the accounts

28. 15:10

    can be traded now suddenly non-fungible tokens can also be traded on the diffused platform and even more soulbound token that were created as nontransferable assets that are just nailed to the account U since account can be traded now also can get traded so theuse does A disruption of any products that were based on the fact of the association in between the user and potentially the user identity and

29. 15:46

    his account because account can be traded um theuse also introduces new types of use cases so for example at the moment as you all know uh the airdrop farming or the participation uh in the some activities on some platforms that have announced or are in the anticipation of the future airdrop of the tokens um this process is somewhat kind of one-sided at the moment people are usually participating in such an airdrop farming activities and then at the moment when

30. 16:29

    uh there Ison air drop that that happens users are typically quickly um reducing their exposure to the associated asset and because everybody are doing this at one particular point in time uh this may be a very very devastating event for the ecosystems so instead of doing this uh people now through diffuse will be able to liquidate their positions in the air drop farming before they air drop happened so

31. 17:00

    person have been participated in the activities but he would like to capitalize on it so he would like to sell his account now with diffuse he's able to do this it's a pretty New Concept and I believe that diffuse is going to be pretty positive for the airdrop movement in general because it's going to smooth out uh the distribution or the caching out uh from the airdrop activities besides that any other Financial

32. 17:32

    products can can be deployed on diffuse including um per uh including derivatives Landing markets multi-chain Financial products like multi-chain index tokens and many many many different things and obviously all of this is available for the whole newor EO System including Aurora Aurora main net users and anyone who is launching their chain using the Aurora virtual chains with that I encourage everyone to

33. 18:05

    follow the updates from diffuse uh we're super super excited for building this project again as I said there are lots of contributors there are lots of Partners who are working together with us um I extend to all of them big thanks for support um and uh the only thing that is left for me to say to all of you join the revolution today uh let's make the uh the blockchain trading indeed in the

34. 18:35

    format and in the way that it deserves to be decentralized multi-chain and with a great user experience by the way we're also hiring for defuse so check out diffusor jobs um and uh just follow the news of the project there are quite a lot of different things that we are going to share in the nearest Future thanks oh no not the mirror I'm sorry it's not my usual setup so I have only one screen so I cannot turn it off without the mirroring thanks for that presentation

35. 19:17

    are you okay opening it up to like any questions I'm sorry El I'll say that again are are you okay to take any questions I didn't I didn't hear you I'm sorry yeah absolutely yeah yeah yeah if there are any questions happy to to answer I I'd be curious to hear like more about how you're doing the um account swap is it via like nft standards like others have been doing um it's it's not directly like

36. 19:54

    that um the way how it works is that like very important thing for us is to make sure that um diffuse is scalable right so unfortunately the way how the the usage of the chain signature is happening is that there are what we call um in the in the architecture of diffuse what we called account shards so these are the sharded smart contracts of diffuse who hold the keys from the

37. 20:25

    accounts on the other networks so the chain signatures the way how chain signatures are working is that the these keys are attributed to the near accounts right so we have we are spawning many different account charts networks and they are holding keys from different accounts and inside of this account charts literally what is written is who owns which account or who owns which key so the way how the intents are working is that that these intents are

38. 20:58

    created um and then people are depositing kind of inside of this intense their their ownership of such an accounts so you can think of this as a well maybe a little bit similar to the non-fungible tokens right so you can they deposit in this but it's not just not implemented as an nft standard and then people people other people are coming and swapping into other account or maybe into some fungible tokens on near site and then the intent is closed

39. 21:29

    and the execution of the intent is facilitated by the near side smart contract does anyone have any other questions because if not I'm going to ask more wait a minute I could probably ask you a few things right um so is this an open- source project or will it be uh yeah the intention is to make it fully fully open source um we are developing multiple pieces here so there there is one piece is the protocol

40. 22:12

    itself it contains two big pieces right these account chards and how the uh how the people are operating with the accounts on the other networks there is a second part which is the uh the actual financial instruments they are the same as intents um and uh to any of these pieces you will be able to contribute and also you will be able to reuse this this is fully open source thing we also develop the solver functionality that is going to be open

41. 22:44

    source and available to everybody so that anyone will be able to take it launch it and become a market maker for their own token or maybe for some additional tokens right so some some other tokens already existent um there are some pieces of the solution that are going to be a little bit aside so for the frontend for distribution channels to connect it will be to or to create a great uh trading experience for users the thing that is going to be very very

42. 23:17

    important is an ability to receive quotes from solvers and these quotes are typically should be done very quick so this should not be used this should not be implemented through the new protocol but instead through some separate solution we call this a solver bus and uh within this solver bus there will be request for quotes um for specific intents um and then the communication

43. 23:47

    back from solvers and stuff like that however all of the settlement obviously for security reasons is going to happen directly on near blockchain there will be no settlement happening through the solver bus right so um yeah so the these these pieces are also going to to get open sourced the only thing maybe the solar bus is going to be open sourced just a little bit later um just lots of

44. 24:11

    things needs to be done right and that's it we would like to make sure that um we are not ending up uh with the situation when there are multiple frontends that are working with the same smart contracts but with different solver buses uh so would like to make sure that and then it becomes a whole you know creep of scope to to upgrade everybody to to one particular version so the solver bus is going to be open sourced at the moment when we are pretty sure

45. 24:43

    that it is functional it is robust and then and then it is available up until that moment in time we're just going to provide API to the solver bus so that everyone is able to connect including market makers and also front ends do you um do you make use of some like existing infrastructure like like maybe some fast bridges for evm networks or or like are you going to be in collaboration with cow swap for parts of

46. 25:16

    their architecture yeah there's a lot of things related absolutely absolutely yeah thanks for for this question indeed a set of projects who are allow for this uh for similar types of the architecture including cow swap probably one of the most known ones uh there are some other projects like thorchain and and similar ones uh we are in conversations on how we are able to benefit each other there is a very straightforward ways how this

47. 25:47

    can be done so for example the front ends can quote different protocols uh and decide where to execute these intents right and that's that's a very great way how to to kind of to to create a competitive landscape for this but there is also another way more collaborative way how how solvers can use these protocols so for the solver they are implementing the transfers from one asset to another so so what naturally intend create they create a disbalance

48. 26:25

    in the in the liquidity ated by the solvers because they are getting some more tokens on one side and less tokens on the other side so for solvers it might be a natural way try to try to kind of balance back and in order to do this either diffuse can be used or any other protocol because why not and uh in such a case uh there is here a very straightforward um collaboration between

49. 26:55

    such protocols so yeah we are trying to to establish all of the all of the connections with other uh parols that are moving in this direction um in order to make sure that this is first of all we're creating a competitive landscape uh which eventually is going to convert into better prices for users but also it will create a good place for solvers to integrate with so they are able to easily manage their liquidity

50. 27:29

    cool thank man thank you very much for this questions really in in depth you show that you you're really interested in in what is happening in this space glad you like it any other burning questions before we move on I think we will move on from there then okay thanks a lot for that Alex um awesome to see what you're building um so Benji the key the key master yeah so um you know you you asked me a while ago

51. 28:15

    to to throw together a very brief uh presentation um thanks Alex by the way for that that that was really neat um I can't say that this is going to be as uh polished and professional as your presentation but you know I tried um so let me just share my screen um it's nice to see everyone again um all right let me know if you can see this yeah you're good to go cool yeah so um essentially what what we we kind of inception IED or or whatever is a way to

52. 28:49

    control um both near accounts and also give out um some really neat onboarding experiences for multichain uh so historically what uh one of the products that we had had and um a lot of the community wanted something like this was um a trial account essentially meaning that um a user that is new to uh the blockchain space comes to an app and they get sent uh a link they click it

53. 29:16

    then they enter the app and they can start using it right now traditionally how apps do that is they um you know would give the the user some some sort of gas money some crypto and then that user would use that app um and great but what a lot of people do is they they take that money that they were sponsored and they go and withdraw it and um there's no there's not really any sible resistance for that uh now near had some

54. 29:42

    some really neat stuff with the layers uh and so one of the products that we had offered was something called a trial account where instead of giving someone cash you give them a an access key and that access key has restrictions baked into it so the account that um that you're you're essentially giving them a key that unlocks an account but that account only has a limited access key and so anytime you want to you know call a function on this target D app uh

55. 30:07

    you're essentially going through that smart contract and that smart contract has restrictions before then firing the cross contract call to the actual uh contract so a very basic scenario is I'm on mint base and I want to use mint base and um you know I want to go and M an nft so what would happen is I would use my my key go through my smart contract uh and say Hey I want to call Mint base and so it would check a bunch of

56. 30:32

    restrictions make sure that I'm actually trying to call Mint base and if all those restrictions were met I would fire a cross contract call over to Mint base on behalf of my account through my contract and it would mint the NFD so um The Annoying Thing with that is that you had to deploy a contract to every single account and we tried to combat this with um no STD smart contracts really really really tiny smart contracts deoy to each account on the order of like 02 near per account but still that's uh a decent

57. 30:57

    amount if you're talking about like 20,000 people right uh and the other thing is it's not scalable uh in that you can't um you canot add in a whole ton of different requirements and um logic into that smart contract because you're bounded by its size and so with with multi-chain um and the MPC contract now you no longer need to do that because you can have one smart contract one ginormous smart contract with multisig with you know a tons of tons

58. 31:26

    and tons of restrictions just a really in-depth smart contract um and you only need to deploy it once and then that will talk to the NPC contract um and then the NPC contract will generate a signature on your behalf so uh now it's infinitely times cheaper than what was previously sort of uh thought of and also um you can have more restrictions you can have a more in-depth sort of user model and so um let's let's just start this this presentation here um

59. 31:58

    so yeah the multi-chain trial accounts obviously um are multi-chain so they work on any NPC compatible network so they're way way cheaper than what we had before uh and also there's expanded benefits you can bake in like multisig more exit conditions you can add in extra Logics user flows all that kind of stuff so what does this actually look like or what would this look like so um I just threw this together in figma so I

60. 32:21

    land on Unis Swap and um a modal pops up hey welcome to Unis swap you've been gifted like five bucks worth of transactions enter username now this can be replaced with a social login like login with Google maybe um doesn't have to be enter a username but the sort of thinking that I had was one identity controls many many many different um accounts wallets all that kind of stuff

61. 32:45

    and so for the for the purpose of this demo I just put it as your username now this can very well be a social login sign in with Google if you want it doesn't matter right so then you create the account and it's like congratulations you're all set enter Unis Swap and you're in and you can start using it now again the the money that you've been gifted cannot be used for anything other than what has been outlined in the trial so I can't take that five bucks and try to log into you know another D apppp or try to withdraw

62. 33:10

    it from an exchange I've only been gifted uh the money to do a very specific set of things now you can because this only one contract now you can bake in a whole ton of different restrictions you can specify you know whatever you want like you can specify exactly what contracts the user can call what methods what deposits you do some redx magic you can you know uh you can do a ton of stuff if if you want uh and

63. 33:33

    then you can bake in exit conditions so right now they've been gifted a sort of like ephemeral account and so you would want it so that at some point the user sort of graduates they've they've they exited their trial they finished it and now you know congrats you can now offboard into like a real account or unlock this account right and so with that you can you can bake in conditions like uh the user has to finish

64. 33:58

    maybe 10 transactions on Unis swap or they have to uh swap you know $3 worth of this coin or that coin or do this or do that and you can make it really granular and so once they've exited then um essentially in that smart contract all the restrictions pop uh and so that key can then be used to sign into any other D app and now they can withdraw their funds or do whatever they want but

65. 34:22

    it's the whole point is that the money that the app sponsors for you should only be used on what it's intended for and that's to use the app you shouldn't be able to take that money and run with it um the other one of the other cool things is potentially you can bake in as part of the exit conditions that you actually have to repay the sponsor so let's say you land on you know mint base or whatever some other you know openc and um as part of your your trial you

66. 34:49

    can create one nftp and you manag to sell it for like $100 uh that would be really cool but uh the app could be like hey you got a 100 bucks why don't you send me back my five in order to sort of graduate right so you can bake in sort of repay conditions and all that kind of stuff into this and so what is this look like from a smart contract perspective uh I spent a not that long on this but

67. 35:11

    it's pretty cool so you can have one smart contract right uh so the username or your social login maps to like a vector of your experiences and those are all just public keys so apps can just sponsor you with all these Keys like hey you have a key for this app and another app gives you a key to that app and this app that at you have a a whole bunch of keys right and then those keys map to um

68. 35:33

    like essentially who the holder is and uh a usage right so that keeps track of what you've actually done with that key so that you can compare with the exit conditions right and then you know obviously there's there's trial outlines so um this has been kind of optimized so that you're not repeating much of data but and the tldr is you know you can have multiple trials at once you can expand these data structures really easily uh there's also key rotation very

69. 35:58

    very simply into this so you can do some neat stuff where you can sell these Keys you can sell experiences that you've given on a marketplace right so you can turn these access Keys into nfts you can sell them you can sell access to your account if you want very easily with this um yeah and so then what does it look like to actually generate a signature right so I land on an app and I have my secret key right that I've been given it's like a link drop right I

70. 36:22

    land on the app and then in that contract I go to I go to uh request to signature right so what does that do it takes the key uh it grabs the public key from that and then that's mapped to the key data which has the trial data um and then essentially uh the key usage and so it says hey is what you're trying to do valid or not yes if it is then I'm going to fire off a call to the NPC contract to generate the signature if it's not valid kick back and be like no you're doing something wrong so essentially you

71. 36:51

    have a middleman contract that is um gating uh your ability to act with the NPC contract uh with this sort of trial outline so you can only reach the NPC contract and by extension reach the valid signature if you're doing something that you're allowed to do uh which is pretty neat and so now you might be asking yourself well what about controlling existing near accounts what the heck man that's what I signed up for well it's actually pretty much exactly the same uh well what

72. 37:25

    happened where did my d diagram go that's you see it here right what the heck okay I'll just go here you got refresh the page well yeah let's just go here for now um so what about controlling near accounts well if you're on a wallet like sweat all you need to do is uh because you have the derivation path um and this is going to generate a signature for a key that may or may not belong to your near account all you need to do all you need to do is add that key right so once you add that key to your near account then

73. 37:58

    everything works and you can add one key you can you can preemptively add like a couple keys if you want um but you just need to add it once and then you're valid forever pretty much because then that key will be on your account and then any signature that uh comes from that derivation path is valid right so uh an example use case is like someone on sweat wants to go and try out you

74. 38:20

    know um opy or something and so sweat knows you and knows your has access to your full access key and then they will add a key corresponding to the trial or corresponding to the experience that you've been given add that key and then fire you over to um to openc and then essentially everything works as expected and so the other cool thing is that with this contract um let me go back over

75. 38:45

    here is you have uh so your account essentially will have um so your your Social account or your identity has access to a a whole ton of different um wall uh sort of wallets I guess or accounts on all these different chains on all these different networks and so this is kind of acting as like a a weird multi-chain wallet contract in a sense that is like gating and controlling your signatures on behalf of these accounts uh and so it also works really really

76. 39:17

    well with oneclick connect um and so you can instantly log in with existing accounts through this contract into uh eth apps into near apps with like the Click of a button assuming that we actually implement the wallet selector functionality or the wallet connect functionality but all of this works like really really well um and so you can instantly log into apps you can have gated trial experiences you can Implement multisig all together into one

77. 39:42

    smart contract and you can expand this to do like a whole ton of other stuff because it's kind of like programming access keys that work on any chain all tied to One account or one identity and this could also work with multiple near accounts right so you could have 10 different near accounts and 30 different evm accounts all controlled by your one social sort of login signed in with Google which is

78. 40:05

    pretty neat so um yeah I hope that makes sense um yeah thank you that's super cool man like I remember talking this talking about this like a year ago and uh it's funny happening so how far out until we can actually use this thing that's a great question um as I as I had put here sponsored by I wish I had enough time to build all this cool stuff um so it really depends like we're we're in the middle of a pretty big Sprint for redacted because we're doing we're doing the whole redacted conference in Bangkok in November so once that's

79. 40:44

    done we may or may not be doing consensus eth Denver maybe um confidential who knows so it all depends on whether or not I have the dev Cycles uh the time but this is all conceptual and then you know I thought about it it all makes sense and it should be relatively easy to implement uh I think we could do it in like a one and a half month Sprint um to to build up the whole contract um so maybe starting in January when I have time I don't know or if someone

80. 41:15

    else wants to pair on it too right like it's not like this is I'm not saying this is my product I'm I'm just saying this is a conceptual cool thing that you can do with something like this so happy to pair on it happy to uh build out with other people happy to do all that kind of stuff and it's all open sourced because we don't build anything not open sourced that's Co like I I always thought of key bomb as like the most obvious use case for like chain stuff

81. 41:40

    it's like kind of you have your key inside your key bomb job down I'm sure it's much hard really happy working on this eventually when you have time yeah it's cool it's all it's all like link drops but on crack programmable link drops that you can sell and also do evm multi-chain Madness with I I also like the idea of like a link drop of like usdc so you just like share a WhatsApp message and then like you have an

82. 42:04

    account with some USC and you can kind of roll it into your account um as like yeah it all works yeah it's an easy way to send money to your grandmother that's cool man really uh enjoy the presentation thank you are there any other questions comments concerns if not thanks guys I would say if someone wants to build this cool stuff how can they reach out to you the best on telegram or yeah telegram I don't really use Twitter anymore I try not to um so telegram

83. 42:44

    telegram's good awesome um yeah thank you very interesting two very interesting presentations um so yeah we don't have anything particularly set in stone for what what's up next so if anyone has anything they want to discuss about chain signatures chain abstraction um have any Alpha please let us know or anything coming up oh I see Kendall go on Kendall uh well two things that that

84. 43:22

    we've been we've been working on and IL I kicked off kind of both of these um let me see if I can pull up so one is one really powerful use case for change signatures is actually generating and serializing like hatching transactions within a near smart contract than requesting that hasch to be signed uh by a chain signatures this does require building the transaction and hashing it within a smart contract which is some

85. 43:46

    additional work so ilip took a crack at this with a library where he has an example for Nero which is the simplest uh and then ethereum and we are working on extending that right now for Bitcoin because we actually have uh a team or a couple teams that that need to do this uh let me just find this Library real quick so everyone can take a look all right here it is one second here you go um so yeah definitely

86. 44:29

    worth checking out there's an example for ethereum right now and for near and we'll we'll one test this and make sure it's actually working and then making changes if necessary and then add Bitcoin to it hopefully by like the end of next week or so um so keep keep an eye out for that and then the other thing is actually pretty similar to what uh benju was was working on but with a slightly different

87. 44:51

    intention um it's the idea of um let it like basically letting users with different wallets particularly Bitcoin uh there's a lot of teams building Bitcoin use cases they're really just targeting Bitcoin users they shouldn't actually have to really know that near is in the background at all in order to accomplish this this requires a couple of things uh but one of the challenging Parts is using your Bitcoin wallet to

88. 45:14

    interact with near um so what we've been working on and ref is is looking into this as well is kind of similar to the Benji mention of that like Hub contract that can like you know essentially man AG be like the the master contract for anyone as an entry point to some type of near transaction um the way we're thinking of it is that this Hub contract will take in a few different arguments uh one is a the public key uh from the Bitcoin uh Bitcoin wallet that'll be

89. 45:44

    being used the Bitcoin address being used the other is uh a raw payload and then the final is a signed message oh yeah no it it is yeah it is a pain uh for sure well that's a little different actually but somewhat related the idea here is like the user will actually using the Bitcoin sign message kind of standard to sign a near transaction basically like to create an intent to execute a near transaction uh

90. 46:08

    annoyingly Bitcoin wallets as part of this standard inject like what they call like magic bites at the beginning to basically make it so people aren't actually signing transactions as because that's a potential fishing attack Vector so that's a little bit of an issue but uh what we can do is actually uh handle that in the near smart contract so take in that raw payload that uh like basically the the new transaction to be to be executed or at least like the actions to be executed

91. 46:33

    the uh public key and then that signed message using this message standard verify that that uh message uh matches using the uh EC recover host function in near and then we can uh we can basically create a new near account that'll be that'll have an access key that's basically a chain signatures access key on it so that only this account can basically sign for it or this this chain signatures account can can sign for it um use like a derivation path that

92. 47:03

    probably matches the the user public key so that it's like you know you can repeatably use it every single time um and then actually use chain signatures to basically control this new near account thus executing the near transaction that the user had like signed this message as like an intent to execute uh and you can even use this to batch up like multiple transactions so the end result of all of this madness and sorry I don't have a diagram and

93. 47:26

    just babbling through it uh Matt will have something on this soon um the end result of this is that a user who has a Bitcoin wallet any Bitcoin wallet can sign and manage transactions uh on near and so what we can end up creating with this is basically like Bitcoin lending protocols that let you use uh just your Bitcoin wallet end to end and even sign to both like you could basically sign to

94. 47:51

    borrow uh usdc against your Bitcoin and then even like trade it back for Bitcoin and receive it back into your Bitcoin wallet on the Bitcoin Network all with like one transaction so it'll basically boil down like sending Bitcoin to a uh to an account controlled by uh a near smart contract which will by via the like client that Alex's team built will be able to recognize your deposit in say burrow meant to like credit you okay you

95. 48:15

    have Bitcoin you can borrow against uh then you sign one more message and you can actually borrow usdt or usdc against it buy Bitcoin receive that back on the Bitcoin Network and you can actually do this all before uh your transaction is even confirmed like your like client deposit is even confirmed you know which might take 10 20 30 minutes depending on uh how many confirmations the like client is waiting for to recognize your Bitcoin transaction but then you can

96. 48:39

    know that you'll just have already executed the whole stream of transactions that you wanted to so you can go away and come back and you'll have already you know completed this action uh which is pretty sweet so I know that was a lot but uh that same pattern can actually be extended to a lot of different things like we can you basically verify use any type of sign message standard from a bunch of different wallets to let users then like basically remote control your accounts

97. 49:02

    using it fortunately with Bitcoin we actually cover Phantom which is like probably the top wallet that doesn't support near right now that we want and then every single Bitcoin wallet but uh anytime popular wallets come up we can uh use a similar pattern awesome I think I'm going to watch this back on like no.25 speed yeah yeah I can understand we'll do like a real a real presentation for this uh with you know diagrams and me talking

98. 49:34

    slowly or letting that do it rather than rather yeah bet you go ahead yeah that's that's that's super neat that's that's very similar to something that that Oleg was was asking us to do which is like a multi-chain one click where you as as like an eth user can just instantly sign into any near D app um and then sort of sign transactions uh on near but controlled by your eth account I'm curious as to what what you guys are going to do in terms of like frontend ux

99. 49:59

    um so are you landing on a near app like let's say you have a Bitcoin wallet and you land on burrow um or are you signing these from within like your Bitcoin Wallet app or actually are I'm assuming you're landing on burrow right yeah in this case you'll be landing on some type of fun ad app so like initially initially we'll be focusing on supporting the like injectable browser

100. 50:25

     wallets so like that okx Phantom uh exe I think are the so you're going to build out then you're going to build out wallet sctor plugins for that then right because they need some way to sign into burrow yeah well so I don't think I mean yeah this would require work from the from burrow right in this case like I don't phase one is not is not designed to be kind of like oh just use the

101. 50:50

     wallet selector and like you get this for free for any near app it's actually targeting more specifically like new apps that are spe like really aiming at Bitcoin focused audiences so like I wouldn't I don't I don't see this in phase one as like burrow and ref are now going to be able to you know have easy support for uh Bitcoin wallets but that could that is also very possible like we could certainly you know build this into wallet selector uh and add support for

102. 51:16

     these Bitcoin wallets like that's i' say that's like a later phase for sure but but that's definitely viable yeah because because that that that would let you essentially sign like if you bu if you built up the wallet sector plugin then could essentially sign into any near app with your Bitcoin wallet and then just start signing transactions and then behind the scenes client side magic

103. 51:33

     you'll be wrapping the transaction sending to the NPC and then generating the signature on behalf of a near wallet and then you know from there actually sending it to the near Network yeah I mean that would that that is definitely worthwhile I think like if we can you know expand the wallets people can use in wallet selector to like Encompass covering like 95% of crypto users would be amazing and this is definitely a pathway there but uh yeah

104. 51:56

     we're building this out for like specifically a couple teams built like targeting Bitcoin users who like need this need this basically to be able to engage that audience at all as opposed to like trying to get people who happen to have those wallets to use near I think uh Phantom in particular would be the target for sure for like okay these users are probably more likely to want to use near anyway like we do have some Crossover with salana audiences H and so

105. 52:20

     I think that could be a particularly big unlock but like for unisat and xorus there's probably less of those users who are like also near users uh but it's yeah it's a good point and definitely worth worth us doing awesome awesome uh sorry about that um anything else people want to discuss any more questions or we can go on all right more to say I I have one question for David actually um and so we had some requests from again OLG

106. 53:04

     about uh potentially signing transactions on behalf of existing eth accounts like the the the reason why the whole multichain coolness and tri account stuff is so neat on near is because you can just add the key to your near account uh I think you know where I'm going for with this right yeah so you can do it like you have like a nosis account you can do it because you can just add the key to your nosis account um but like when it comes to actually

107. 53:27

     importing a key so like first of all it's like one of the issues is we need to be able to prove malth feasance of like NPC operators so like if someone Imports a key into the NPC system um and then a no no operators collude and they sign something using that key um we don't really know whether the person who had the key before signed that payload or whe bad NPC operators signed that payload and that kind of breaks down our

108. 53:50

     H like slashing model um so I I'm very very reticent to like I think you know yeah absolutely we should work out do stelf hypnosis um because that's a really good way of doing it um as like have our key as an input as a was running by my face um but I think actually importing it is like super dangerous and then like a lot of stuff breaks down like um you could look at like the history of the key and then

109. 54:14

     allow it to be to be locked and actually previously could assigned a bunch of things um that would allow to drain the funds uh beforehand so it's kind of it it braks the model basically entirely that's so probably not okay yes Ben yeah I think this was actually a perfect segue I wanted to bring up something else but instead since you guys mentioned this stuff with safe um I've already put together a library here that allows us to do this sick and uh I'll put a link here now

110. 54:47

     it's not released yet as an mpm package but it probably will be sometime um so uh this is a perfect time to describe what happened really what's happening here is that the evm address that you are assigned uh through your near account becomes the signer of a safe and it uses all of this um I can't remember ERC whatever the ERC standard for account abstraction is so that it's also really cute and seamless because you can you will immediately because of create

111. 55:25

     two you'll know what the address of the safe will be before you even bother to deploy it and you can build your first transaction and it will look everything will look all fine and the safe itself won't even be deployed until you it will be deployed along with the transaction that is your first so like lazy contracts yeah it's lazy because you have these deterministic addresses and you're also it's got this already at least this feature where I say I don't

112. 55:55

     want to trust this MPC contract or I want to at least be able to recover this account that I care about um in case the MPC contract goes a rogue or something so it creates this safe as a as a single signer account and then also allows you to add some eoa or some other account as a as an additional owner at the time of deployment um I think we'll probably I think I'm I've been working at mbase and putting this chain signature stuff into their wallet now I think the initial release although it's a little

113. 56:31

     unfortunate will probably use the eoa that you get from from the MPC contract directly but I think in the very near future it's just a little confusing for people with this like chain of accounts you have your near account and then you have this other eoa that's coming from the MPC contract and then you have this safe but this stuff all is is running um using like Pino as some sort of account

114. 56:56

     extration provider because the way that you propose and submit transactions is totally different there nice thing is that this is all under the hood and this is the complex stuff that uh people don't necessarily even devs don't necessarily want to want to learn about um yeah I would maybe recommend taking at a look it's still pretty young um there's uh the two things that are sort of special there are the all the safe

115. 57:19

     implementation the like you need this collection of contracts from safe that like give you the deterministic adress and like all these deployed multi-end relays and stuff um ideally uh the safe SDK would provide all of this functionality but right now it's here written all raw it doesn't need to actually use the safe SDK and then there's these bundlers these ERC 4337 bundler services that looks Co that's and on the

116. 57:50

     other side like on in a similar timeline to when Benji is going to do multichain um uh Al chain key bom like which is at some point in time when we have time we'd really love to um find a way to put um like multichain keys inside nois safes so actually you go through your nosis safes and then you suddenly have a Bitcoin key in the middle of it which I think a really like interesting use case this technology um like because maybe it's not the most secure thing in the world but it's still kind of like a useful way of gating all this stuff so

117. 58:20

     it's kind of the opposite of what you're building you're doing chain signatures to control no stfe and using nois safes to control chain sign they're both yeah I kind of feel like I've been going backwards on everything I've also been doing this wallet connect stuff where you want to connect to your apps and we'll be putting I mean this is just basic wallet connects you just create a connection through an API and you get these message these signature requests

118. 58:45

     from there from the other app and but it's all I guess I'm evm focused and I mean they're both useful it's projections are good um really cool I'm really impressed what you're working on I always you always seem to be the person who ask the most difficult questions on the uh developer telegram chats which is always good actually I wanted to um ask if anybody's even using this uh near CA Library I mean this say this safe project is using the near CA Library I was hoping maybe

119. 59:15

     if anybody is uh looking for feedback because I want to release a version one soon and if anybody's been having issues with Clumsy naming or or whatever I'm also putting this all of the wallet connect stuff now under a beta like feature so you'll access it as like adapter. beta. handle session request or something like this so that basically so we can release a version one and then um and then reserve the right to rename some stuff as it evolves once we start using

120. 59:45

     it voice syes copy bases um I think unfortunately right time but it's a really good Community call it's nice to chat about this stuff I definitely like the chatting bit that's that's always nice yeah I think we should try in the future slimming down on like presentations I think they're cool and interesting but you get a lot more out of this talk for sure I love I'm not not talking any about anyone's presentation no the presentations are

121. 1:00:16

     correct okay uh thank you everyone