NEAR Protocol Community Group Call – February 15, 2023

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

1. 0:03

   thank you very much everyone for joining um I think this is our first Community call for the uh for the protocol community group um I hope you folks had a chance to look at like what the group is about and so on so the high level idea is right that we're we want to have a place that uh people who are interested in the near protocol uh either adding new features to it or just sort of following the what is being discussed what is happening there what a kind what a kind of uh what

2. 0:42

   progress is being made in the different features and uh just so they have ideas to suggest and they have feedback to provide on some features and so on it's it's a place for us to come together and discuss these things anything related to new protocol you know uh should it should be interesting to discuss and so on so this is what the goal of this group is um there's a couple other community groups that have been started on different topics so we're we're going to

3. 1:15

   be following them as an example and trying to model ourselves behind them um so I'll just do a brief introductions for myself and Ori first and uh then I would like to see some other people maybe if they want to introduce themselves uh or do you want to start or sure I'd be happy to hi everyone I'm Ori and I'm a technical program manager uh in Pagoda I am playing a big part in developer governance which includes

4. 1:45

   working groups and Community groups and just helping uh kind of connect people and ideas to make our ecosystem better so super excited to be here and meet all of you and yeah I guess I'll hand it up back to you thanks sorry yeah so my name is akhi uh I'm part of pagoda and uh I'm in the contract runtime team within the protocol team at Pagoda and uh I am the engineering manager

5. 2:15

   there and uh I lead the team of four engineers and I've been at Pagoda for almost a year um like maybe nine months now and uh uh yeah I hope uh figure I helped manage the team and figure out what projects we should work on what features we should work on and those kind of things and I also help organize community events and so on uh for example this one uh but someone else like to introduce themselves

6. 2:50

   I can follow so my name is Jacob I'm in pakoda as well I'm one of the engineers of Archie's team um joined Pagoda a bit more than one year ago I like to put in my notes in all kinds of discussions that I don't belong into um but I am mostly into contract runtime team that's where I belong can I follow too yes yes please yes so I'm Zaid uh um uh near uh near minor I mine near and I validate some contract uh in neoprocal so nice to meet you all

7. 3:36

   guys thank you Jacob website anyone else uh sure I'll go next I'm Michael I work for Aurora I did work for near Corps back in the day um but uh yeah I'm a senior developer I've worked on various things in the near and Aurora protocols and I'm pretty interested in seeing how how they'll evolve so happy to be here and nice to meet you all thank you Michael anyone else oh sorry I think I muted myself uh hi my name is min I am a software engineer

8. 4:24

   from the core team within Pagoda so similar to contract runtime team we are part of the protocol team as well so we uh work together to uh improve the protocols and there are a bunch of interesting projects going out I would love to hear people's opinions here um there's various subjects um yeah I look forward to uh the discussion awesome yeah thanks man uh anyone else I'll introduce myself

9. 5:04

   um I'm Joe Spano I'm part of the ready layer one podcast uh on near I'm also a developer and uh we're building out a couple projects here on here and we run a validator uh as well on the regular one sneaking cool uh thank you thank you Joe um anyone else so hi I'm Martin I'm one of the developers on Pagoda and one thing I would like to get from this group is how is the experience of developing near

10. 5:41

    from the outside and like how we can help with documentation tooling and whatnot to make sure that is as as awesome as developing from within pagoda thanks Martha yes that's a very important part of what we're trying to do at Pagoda we want to encourage as much Community around development around the protocol not just you know using the protocol but actually modifying it contributing to it and we're very much interested in knowing

11. 6:15

    what the experience there is and how we can improve that and so on so yes that's a very important uh use case for us that we want to make sure it's properly received and addressed um just introduced themselves on on the chat um I think we may have covered everyone is there anyone that we missed or who would like to speak up or should we move on to the next slide right I think we can move on to the next lifetime um so yeah so uh the

12. 6:56

    the format that we'll follow here is pretty similar to what the other community groups are also doing it's a free format discussion right so there's no um we are just meeting and chatting and we can pick whatever topics we want uh Ori and I tried to come up with some topics that we suggested but we definitely do not need to stick to them if somebody has some other topics they would like to bring up that's absolutely

13. 7:19

    fine and just to really make it clear right Ori and I are just moderators we're not here to lead we're not we're not making any decisions we're not making any assessments all of that is happening via other processes that we have so if we decide to work on a feature or something you know if somebody wants to propose a feature all of those things we will follow the normal channels and we're just here to

14. 7:44

    facilitate the discussions help people meet and take notes and so on so please do not take anything we say as something that is said in store or anything you know everything is up for discussions um yeah so uh there will be a Twitter thread uh that we will start afterwards that we will use to decide what we wanna when we wanna meet again what topics we should cover and so on uh anything else you want to add to this format already before we jump into the topics or no I think you covered it

15. 8:21

    perfectly cool thanks um all right so these are some of the topics that we came up with uh based on some of them were sourced by me and some of them were proposed by some of the people in the call um I tried to put them in some random order so maybe somebody would like to pick one of these topics or any other topic and start a discussion I'm happy to talk about synchronous wasn't uh people are interested in that yeah um yeah cool so

16. 9:02

    so the the idea here the motivation is we we currently have sub-accounts and we have you know cross-contract calls right there there are asynchronous ways for contracts to communicate with each other but what we want to introduce with this change and yeah there's this nice uh Forum thread on it and I have a few other resources which I'll link as well in a moment um but what we want to introduce is another way in which you can introduce webassembly code and attach it to an

17. 9:37

    account um but be able to execute it synchronously so the main ways in which I think this is different from what you can do currently on near is one as of today a an account can only have a single contract whereas under this proposal an account would be allowed to have multiple of what we're calling sub modules two other accounts are able to invoke the contract right you can just cross-contract call into any any

18. 10:10

    contract anywhere on the system but we're proposing that for the case of sub modules I'll elaborate a little bit more on this later um for some modules they cannot be externally invoked it's just the the contract itself is able to invoke its sub modules but they can't be directly invoked externally and then the third thing that we want for sub modules is that they are they are by default stateless so they're they're just pieces of of code and we can talk about um how they could interact with state in

19. 10:44

    in just a moment but but these are sort of the three ways in which I think they're importantly different from existing contracts today so okay why would we want these things what what good features does does this give us so I think the the main thing is this enables sort of untrusted pieces of webassembly to be integrated within a larger contract so uh one example to think about is for a Dao as of today the proposals you can make are maybe a

20. 11:16

    little bit limited right there's there's maybe a certain sort of pre-configured enumerated set of actions that users can can propose and act on uh say certain function calls or or whatever um but this would actually allow you to do a more free form um proposal where you're basically proposing a whole piece of code and you could actually deploy that whole piece of code and then vote on having it having it execute and that might be anything for Aurora itself this is useful because

21. 11:48

    effectively what Aurora is it's a VM inside of VM in the sense that we are accepting uh evm contracts and executing them on top of near and as of today we do that using an interpreter but for us it'd be really useful to be able to do it in sort of a more direct way if we could compile those evm contracts to webassembly and accept them directly into the engine again we're talking about sort of a trustless or a sorry

22. 12:14

    untrusted um input of contracts um which is why we need these sort of like can't be invoked directly stateless by defaults Etc all these nice security features um but for Aurora this is useful because it basically enables us to do this you know VM and a VM thing a little bit more efficiently than using an interpreter um presumably the same is true although to be honest I haven't looked into this super closely but presumably the same is true for the JavaScript support as well right there's a JavaScript Enclave as

23. 12:47

    far as I understand it which is basically just like a compiled um jsvm which probably is mostly an interpreter but maybe that's not true I again haven't looked at it super closely but I assume a similar sort of untrusted Snippets of code could be could be useful for this um so a couple extra resources um let's see some stuff has already shown up in the chat here yeah so there's the governance Forum there I wrote a document a little while back

24. 13:17

    which I'll also drop in the chat here for people to take a look at don't feel pressured to to read it immediately or anything like that just feel free to look at it at your leisure it's open for comments to people uh so feel free to take a look at that and then I'd also discuss this with with Jacob before on uh zulip so I'll link I'll link to that message as well which sort of has a text form of basically the things that I just said um

25. 13:48

    yeah so the the main I guess questions that that I I have for the for the community at large is you know it how useful is this for for other projects are there other use cases that that we haven't that we haven't thought of before um how do people like the design in terms of of actually being useful for for developers right like the the way it's currently presented is is maybe fairly Limited in terms of you know again these these sort of stateless non-external

26. 14:21

    um Snippets of code could be kind of challenging to to develop around it might be awkward in terms of a devex but um again I think the security considerations may be outweigh that but all of this I think is is open to discussion thank you for the nice introduction to the topic Michael yeah uh any comments questions would be useful for zero knowledge protocols like um or for example you could submit the proof as well actually

27. 15:11

    I'm actually not sure do you do you have a sense of of how it might be useful for zero knowledge like verification but it's just it will be specific on to verify something Unchained and so you're imagining having a single contract with multiple multiple verifiers and and you people can submit new verifiers is the idea which is why the sub modules are helpful yeah for example cool nice I like that as well not that that's my back pocket so your knowledge

28. 15:54

    is is trendy of course and by the way there's a zero knowledge community group in case anyone isn't aware I'll post a link to their telegram channel so if anyone wants to bring this to that I think they're probably going to have a meeting coming up soon as well with a lot of very very passionate zero knowledge uh people yep um uh Michael have you thought about some sort of I'm thinking about these classical capability based systems right

29. 16:32

    where you could actually when you provide the sub module to the system to execute you can actually at the same time specify what types of accesses it should be allowed to have so that we could make if we were to implement this we could implement we could enable more access like talking to other contracts and so on but if I do not want if I do not trust the module then I can prevent that something along those lines yeah I think I think something like that

30. 17:10

    is embeddable into the current proposal um it would be an interesting question whether or not we want to make it sort of first class in the sense that you know when you deploy a sub module do you declare capabilities at that time versus the current proposal the sub module always only has access to a single host function which is to talk to the main contract of the account so the main contract of the account can of course have arbitrary logic about uh capabilities Etc

31. 17:42

    um but you sort of have to build it from scratch every time as compared to embedding in the protocol and yeah I think the trade-off there is protocol Simplicity versus dead X Simplicity and I don't exactly know where we want to draw that line but uh I think as of today I personally sit on the side of protocol simplicity uh in in exchange for having a more complex devex but I'm also open to my

32. 18:06

    mind being changed online yeah I suppose I mean I as my operating system background I would always prefer keeping the protocol as simple as possible so I I agree with that and I think we can also if we could also maybe build this in an iterative way right if we could have it be backwards compatible somehow so we build the most basic thing now first see how well that works and maybe get feedback

33. 18:42

    on What's Missing and then extend it based on that that would be another nice way to build that right so that way we can get have something out there bill that already see experiment with it and expand yeah absolutely agree I I started working on a proof of concept implementation of this um but didn't quite get uh quite get it finished so I I'm hoping to get it back up to the top of my to-do list pretty soon and you know start to start working on it again but uh but yeah I definitely agree

34. 19:17

    having a working thing to get feedback on from actual developers of beef would be amazing uh Alexander wrote on the chat uh they proposed a name for remote wasn't called execution to it as the name for the feature um but that imply asynchronous execution Alexander or yeah the idea is that synchronous is is not is not a key word you know like my first impression is that synchronous kind of oh this is synchronous and I

35. 19:59

    remember um security issues with different contracts where you can batch a few actions into the single transaction and get some asynchronous you know kind of vulnerabilities and so I thought that's about security Improvement but it's not and so I feel like this is more about remote code execution um uh kind of you know ability I mean the fact that synchronous is important though uh for especially for for Aurora it's maybe less important for

36. 20:37

    the other use cases but um the sort of limitation on Aurora is that the evm is synchronous so we we need all of the sub modules that we execute all happen synchronously anatomically we can't be hopping over an asynchronous boundary and well I mean like you you could Implement that but it would get very complicated very quickly so um but yeah to your point um yeah asynchronous coding is is challenging and can lead to security

37. 21:09

    vulnerabilities so so using this sort of a feature to build um New Year contracts that don't require sort of reaching out to uh existing things in the ecosystem there might be more this might be a more a more secure option potentially um yeah all right anyways my point is that synchross seems like not not a key key feature we could call it remote code no no like coding injection feature of the universe

38. 21:48

    or I just speculate it let's give it I I guess Alexander is trying to make the name future proof right so we could start off with it maybe it's synchronous today but we decide to make it asynchronous layer on then we might have to change the name of the future so yeah yeah yeah exactly no that's what I think good feedback so I guess just clarifying like what the next steps here so Michael it sounds like you're still going to be working on a proof of concept and you're going to

39. 22:30

    follow up on on this and this initial proposal or you're going to post it are you familiar with the gigs board by the way uh no not familiar ah okay uh okay do you have the the link to the gigs board I can send it to you uh yeah maybe you can drop it on the chat and now yeah basically it's a place where we encourage people from the community to kind of post ideas in the early phases uh proposals and kind of invite people to comment on them and then later if it ends up being something

40. 23:01

    that affects the entire ecosystem that goes through the net process like it's a good place to kind of um invite the appropriate working groups to take a look at that but also eventually with matching uh projects with funding like we're trying to use that space to kind of do the entire end to end from idea to execution uh to funding so I'll drop the link here and you can see examples of other uh folks that have submitted some ideas and proposals and kind of uh yeah I'm happy to share more information with you or

41. 23:31

    anyone who uh yeah he wants to uh to post your ideas in a more uh broad place and I think the golf place is a really good place for now to start but we're trying to create a more centralized uh kind of platform to make it even easier for for people cool yeah yeah that sounds great and yeah in terms of action items um I mean I I sort of assume that we'll end up like we being Aurora will end up being

42. 23:57

    being the main champions of this so we'll we'll work on a proof of concept um and yeah I think when that's finished we'll we'll post about that I guess in this uh board that you're that you're describing and then hopefully move on to uh an official net from there yeah that sounds great I would love to I would love to get this uh see this uh take move forward and reach completion that'll be very cool

43. 24:32

    does anybody have any more questions comments on this topic or maybe just a couple ideas of how this is actually much larger than just for what we're proposing here the whole sub component or I think it's just components is it called in webassembly it's something experimental that wants to be stabilized for webassembly in general and they have much more ambitious ideas what this can be

44. 25:04

    I think a good example here is you can write your code and depend on a library and the library is not just a sub-component if you now want to upgrade the library you can just upgrade that sub-component and don't have to change anything of your current code and this way you can kind of if you define that in the interface in between these components properly and everything then you can just update components and get the security features

45. 25:35

    without having to recompile or anything like that how this integrates into the blockchain is like you could have a locked component a locked contract but you could still exchange certain components of it of course this is lots of security concerns of like is it actually locked like but but if you change some code of it but there is some advisor creativity that people can kind of deploy and how they can mix and match

46. 26:07

    different components to to make it much more Dynamic execution environment that it is today yeah thanks for the comment Jacob indeed right uh webassembly is continuously evolving and they have very Grand ideas of how to how the different modules can work together and so on and indeed if such a feature will allow us to extract even better uh uh the such features will become even more powerful once as webassembly

47. 26:41

    evolves and so on so definitely this will we're all excited to see this development in web assembly any other thoughts comments questions mean raise the question in the chat in the current design Canal locked contract deploy new sub modules what what do you say Michael that's a great question uh um yes the the answer is yes a large contract could deploy new sub modules I guess it's maybe worth clarifying what we mean here by by locked I assume by

48. 27:23

    locked we mean uh an account that has no full access keys um even today a locked account at least locked in this sense can even upgrade its main contract because uh I can't like having no full access Keys just means that no external user can force an action to happen but you could still have logic in the contract itself to create a callback where basically it updates itself right this is the self

49. 27:56

    updating sort of pattern that we we see in a couple different contracts throughout the ecosystem um so uh you you could follow exactly that same pattern with with sub modules where even even an account with no full access Keys could have some built-in routine to to accept and deploy them cool uh any other discussions on this or should we move on to another topic all right well thanks thanks for giving a platform for this and thanks everyone

50. 28:40

    for your engagement I really appreciate it yeah thank you for bringing up the topic Michael we're uh I'm I'm very excited to see progress on this yeah uh uh these are some of the topics that we had proposed earlier um but somebody like to pick one of these or do they have something else that they would like to discuss hey this is Joe I was uh I'm very interested in uh user onboarding I'm sure that topic was supposed to be about because we're doing a lot of stuff

51. 29:23

    around that with our projects so I was curious what the actual topic was for that uh I'm going to defer to Jacob to give us a high level introduction to how we're improving user onboarding okay yeah let's see what I can come up with here right I mean there's several different projects going on right now that all try to improve user onboarding in the sum so each the interval component alone maybe isn't enough but hopefully everything together the goal is to

52. 30:00

    we can create a system where a new user can be onboarded without needing a near wallet already I think that is kind of the main goal here so ideally you can have your grandmother that has never heard of crypto in the log into a decentralized app they have an account that belongs to them maybe somewhere in their local storage of their device they have some keys it's kind of like already theirs and nobody can take it away from them but it's not recorded on the Chain

53. 30:33

    yet or or at least like not in a way that uh they have to pay for anything right and that this has has many different complications usually everything you try to do ends up being exploitable in some way because if you actually store something on chain then now and you do it for free then now someone can just Spam whatever transaction you're trying to do for free and now we have a denial of service attack that we can't really defend so that's like the very high level

54. 31:10

    problem we try to solve and I would say we have mainly two or three I hit I would say there are three topics work being worked on right now for this and with two of them I am familiar and maybe I'm missing a couple of others so we probably the most important one is just a meta transaction proposal that uh Alexander is still in the call actually worked on implementing it and put through with the nap and everything so maybe he can give some more details

55. 31:50

    but on a very high level he just allows to have a relayer that's kind of off chain component some server some service that can execute the transaction in the name of someone else so now your grandmother can be that someone else that has the key in their local storage of an implicit account that hasn't even been created on chain yet but he already can own sweatcoin with this implicit account ID and now

56. 32:22

    she can send a transaction to the relayer and the relay will pay for the gas fees really recent some checks off chain so that will be cheaper they can do a couple of checks and see if they actually want to accept this and pay for it then they pay for it and it will be executed on chain and then there's a couple of problems with that approach um so we try to make zero balance accounts that solve that problem but zero balance account also just generally make it easier

57. 32:56

    to onboard new users in a trustless way the problem there is if you have today if you create an account you have to put some balance in it you have to maintain a minimum amount of tokens and if you do that and someone else has the key to it then that person can just delete the account and take whatever tokens are left in this account so if we go back to the example of my grandmother maybe wanting to be to have this account created for her without her worrying about how she gets any near

58. 33:36

    then she can um she can do that that's fine but now someone else is abusing this system and will create hundreds of accounts under their keys by the relayer and then they just collect all the tokens so with one proposal here's zero balance account we removed the amount of tokens you need to maintain to zero so now you can create an account for someone else and you don't have to worry about the case that they will just run off with the tokens because there are no tokens

59. 34:08

    to collect and maybe the third way that uh we have work that is being worked on that I'm not familiar with is uh I would say using your phone as your wallet using the keys yeah it's kind of the hardware keys of your phone um to be your wallet I think maybe margin has more information on that I don't really know what exactly is going on there and what how exactly it works but that's summary of all the open questions maybe Joe I think you raised your voice

60. 34:40

    here what is in what exactly are you interested here uh yeah no great I mean I'm uh I guess all of this this is really all very interesting so uh one question I kind of have is so these zero balance accounts are they named accounts or are they hex accounts that both doesn't matter it doesn't matter so I guess just from a curiosity how is the storage requirement removed like where does that come from um very simply you we just increase the gas cost

61. 35:19

    so you actually still pay almost the same amount it's less than before in total but it's almost the same amount um but it's no longer tokens that you can receive it's just we burn it I gotcha I got you okay that's really interesting and then um one of the things I think uh is being talked about too is uh improving how uh link drops work is that going to tie into this or is that going to be completely separate

62. 35:51

    foreign familiar with how that ties into that probably there's some combination anyone in the call knows more about this sorry I don't think I do either I mean I can speculate that now you can again you don't really have to this level of trust that you need for late drops at the same time it's it's not quite as easy because for meta transactions what you want with a link drop ideally you

63. 36:26

    have some QR code and that already contains the talk can sort of or the the payment you need to create your account right um and that has been done I think with like function access keys that has a specific amount of allowance can't really do that with meta transactions as it's proposed today um because you have to like asked relayer to execute the specific transaction for you and and you kind of have to construct it first and it's at least I don't know how it's done or

64. 37:04

    maybe Alex has some idea here but I think these are probably still mostly different ways of doing it sure so who's the owner of the zero balance account um is it the original contract or is the end user technically the owner of it but if they actually claim the account then nothing comes with it is that how that works okay interesting it was all great yeah no I think I mean anytime we can eliminate any kind of financial barriers to accounts that

65. 37:51

    that's a definitely strong positive uh can you provide a brief status for meta transactions and serve balance account Jacob uh where are they in terms of being ready do you know um So Meta transactions is probably like the highest priority item for many people within pakoda as far as I know right now so weird I'm working on the stabilization on the protocol side and we are having Tech daily updates on the progress across many teams so we

66. 38:34

    have things like the Explorer has somehow display this data properly like when we have meta transactions that looks differently and the database that sits behind the indexer needs to know how to handle this type of data um meta transactions to be useful you need some relay implementation so we have the Integrations team working and actually implementing that and testing that out and all these things have to come together and our goal is to finish this as soon

67. 39:06

    as possible I can't really promise or I don't know if it will make the cut for the next text net release we expect the test and release towards the end of the month if we don't make it I think our usual cycle is five weeks so then it will be delayed by like five weeks you should expect it at the latest to be in that test net release that comes afterwards um so then it will be the test and then it's a couple of weeks and test at it

68. 39:37

    then it goes to mainnet so yeah assuming all the teams nobody faces any major problems that we haven't surfaced yet yet than we expect this to be on mainnet Within let's say two months and zero balance accounts you also asked about that about that I think we're going to merge the stabilization today or tomorrow so that should be ready before meta transactions could you elaborate a little more about what zero balance accounts look like from

69. 40:22

    from from a developer perspective say I did want to create a new zero balance account is it do I have to do anything special or is it just uh the same create account action the way it's implemented now it will replace the old system completely so you will no longer have um accounts that need balance from the beginning one tricky part here is like it's a threshold that we Define for how much bytes you can use for free

70. 40:58

    that limit is I think 770 bytes it's enough to store four full access keys and two function access keys without any methods in it that's for free as soon as you go above that now you have to uh still maintain some amount of tokens as you did before so from a developer perspective the main difference is if you add more and more keys maybe at some point suddenly it kicks in and it will no longer be a zero balance account that's something you have to be

71. 41:32

    that you have to consider but we were hoping with this like four plus two keys hopefully all the general use cases should be covered and if you want to do more complex stuff at at some point you have to actually pay the pay the tokens cool does this interact in any way with the registrar account or contract um sort of um we have to update it because there's some gas limits in there that won't

72. 42:08

    quite work anymore um some callbacks that will not have enough gas because now the trade account cost uses more gas um but that's more of a technical detail in terms of logically it shouldn't really change it as far as I know I I guess I guess that's something for them to to look at in more details because you don't have to send an amount of tokens anymore yeah that's sort of what I was wondering is if the registrar had some internal

73. 42:44

    checks or something uh minimum balances or whatever but uh but yeah yeah so so I guess I guess logically like as a developer once this feature lands if I wanted to make an account for my friend it's literally just I call the registrar uh please make you know my friend dot mirror and and it does it and it's happy and I don't actually need to fund that account with any with any tokens I just

74. 43:09

    need to fund the gas that it takes to make it yeah exactly cool uh did you see the feedback on the size and chat Jacob yeah talk to Bowen or leave a message on the pr there uh yeah he implemented it um yeah I was also I'm curious right if I if I'm not using all the free bytes for storing keys can I actually upload a small uh webassembly module and uh maybe get creative with it and actually have a

75. 43:54

    very small smart contract running that could do something useful and still be not have to pay for storage yes you could you could even take it further you can upload a larger contract first trade some state and then deploy a smaller contract and then in whatever state is left if it's the sum of everything is still below the threshold it's for free I don't think there is any way this can be abused

76. 44:27

    but I don't think there's a good way of using it either it's just kind of a torque in the implementation yeah that reminds me of coding goals right sorry I've interrupted someone uh yeah that actually reminds me um I don't know if there's an official proposal for this anywhere but uh this idea of being able to instead of storing webassembly code in a contract you store a pointer to where it actually lives somewhere else and if this if if

77. 45:02

    this is very small you know this fits within your free fight limit then maybe you could have non-trivial contracts even on these free accounts if they're reusing logic that already exists on chain are you referring to like a global State implementation yes I think that is the name that it goes global storage or something yeah yeah I think that's quite far in the future or I don't know of any specific work being done on it but looking forward to that as well cool or you can

78. 45:35

    combine it with your proposal Michael of some module execution you can store the sub module in the state load that and execute it still has to be very small though if we only have 700 bytes 777. yes uh did you have any more questions comments Joe or anyone else I don't have anything else thank you right um we only have about 10 minutes left but maybe we can cover one more topic if somebody has any proposals for what they would like to discuss

79. 46:32

    I'm curious to hear people's thoughts this is the first meeting like what do you all think uh do you want to do this again uh if so how soon like next week in two weeks like on a monthly basis just curious uh would love to hear any thoughts from from anyone um yeah personally I think this is great I think that the you know introduction part could be reduced yeah because we just spent maybe 10

80. 47:08

    minutes for that yeah also we from probably could go through the topics uh more I don't know sequentially with time limits you know moderation thing yeah yeah good feedback thank you thank you Alexander I mean you had some feedback too yeah so uh it's kind of similar I think this is great uh I would say personally I think maybe weekly is too much for me but something like bi-weekly I would

81. 47:46

    totally be up for that uh and I think uh just make it more efficient maybe we want to uh like propose topics beforehand and share it with the people so for example uh like if I can read uh the like the uh like the docs that's shared on this copy forehand I think that would be I would be able to contribute more or at least even if I read the docs before at least I need some maybe it's a long

82. 48:21

    time ago and I want to refresh my memory on that it's a great great feedback yeah any other comments let's have a small comment I think uh as a someone who's you know not working on the protocol directly as a you know outside developer it's nice to be able to connect with both inside and outside developers and be able to talk at a low level of actually what is how these things are being addressed sometimes just reading stuff on the boards becomes uh tricky because you just get caught up

83. 49:04

    in you know trying to follow threads everything else but actually here it's spoken about be able to ask questions uh is really valuable so I love the idea of being able to like prep a little bit beforehand and you say okay we're gonna talk about this bringing you know be prepared for some questions and things like that and then be able to really interact like this this is great and then I'm also happy to I know we can get to today but I'm always happy to talk

84. 49:27

    about my experience as a developer on the on the ecosystem too and so hopefully for those in Pagoda can kind of gain some value from us on the outside as well yeah thank you Joe yes absolutely I think uh we would love to hear more about the developer yeah contract developer experience right I mean in many ways uh you folks are the customers right so uh uh and uh if we you know we it's great

85. 50:00

    to hear feedback on how you are using our API that we're providing what we can do to improve it and any feedback there is absolutely yes yeah that will be very valuable uh or yes on the chat would it would you be okay but adding that as a topic uh for the next for the next meeting foreign yeah I'm I'm certainly happy to talk about that concept whenever yeah sure yeah awesome thank you

86. 50:34

    awesome I will find you on telegram as well and I'll make sure to send you the exact date um and to make sure it works for you perfect sounds great all right uh sorry uh go ahead or yeah I was just I was just reading the last comment from Zade who seems to be also interested so yeah I'll follow up with you asaid as well uh if you are I'm assuming you all are in the protocol community group uh telegram Channel but if not this might be a good Vlog for it uh yeah okay do you want to maybe speak

87. 51:06

    to it and I'll I'll uh get the link while you're speaking to it so we've we've started a telegram or there was a telegram Community uh group and uh please join uh or you will find the link for it um so this is where we will be sharing updates on um when the meetings are being planned and uh uh if you have any topics to suggest and other people are so just posting things of interest like this is

88. 51:36

    a free-form discussion forum as well so if there's anything you want to discuss and so on um there's also we also have a zulip channel that is used quite heavily for protocol development and people are encouraged to join that as well um and over there you can actually really you know see actual development taking place people having uh live conversations about what features they're building what problems they're hitting and it can

89. 52:05

    be quite exciting and they can come there uh just ask questions if you have any questions or proposed features and stuff and you will get a uh you you will generally get a very good engagement and people will be happy to hear from you and so on so yeah um all right uh I think we're out of time now so uh uh the Oris uh you proposed March 1st as the next one yeah it's exactly two weeks from today

90. 52:37

    same time does that does this time work for for everybody for what it's worth two weeks from today is East Denver so oh yeah yeah it's not gonna work maybe when is East Denver over again do you know uh I've got in my calendar as being the first through to the fifth so that the eighth should be fine yeah should we do the eighth then yeah cool all right thank you all so much and thank you Aki for all the work to to get everyone together here thank you very much everyone for joining