DevHub Live 20

Captions as YouTube publishes them, usually machine-generated, so product and people names can be misheard.

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   you want you want you want what you want what you want what you want what you want what want what want want want want hello welcome welcome welcome welcome welcome we are live again with another devhub live this time doing a workshop again uh we did one last week it was uh I thought it went really great there's a lot of stuff you could learn with the uh B and building on that with their AI

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   agents and all kind of stuff like that this week uh again this is all for the redacted hackathon the link is right here at the bottom make sure you signed up uh awesome prizes over $600,000 in prizes uh it's running through the end of October so plenty of time to still build and today we're bringing to you here on devhub live another workshop with calero Pro uh Network and calero we

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   don't know much about them it's really based around privacy and building on that we're going to talk all about that um they have been around for a very long time in the near ecosystem um their CEO Sandy who's is going to be on here comes from the original buildings of near and so we're going to talk about a little bit of of that too as well now what's exciting about this here is that again

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   they have continued to build a platform that anyone can build on it is not just a singular product necessarily so we're going to dive into all of that uh Sandy is who's going to come on is the CEO of caliro network he has actually been on a few of the different shows that I've been host him before going all the way back to February of 2023 he came on the ready ready layer one podcast with uh me

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   and my co-host Jared and we talked all about Camero then and I will tell you since then uh it has really evolved into something that is super exciting so before we wait any longer let's get right to let's get into the workshop and let me bring Sandy up to the stage all right Sandy how are you I am good how are you I'm great I'm great see you again nice to see you again yes great seeing you um I'm really excited about what you guys are doing over at calero and I'd love for you just to kind

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   of set the stage for the audience a little bit of what exactly is calero today and what we're going to get into from a building standpoint uh sounds good sounds good so essentially like Ciro started as a near spin-off with this idea to bring private data into web3 uh because like obviously not everything should be on chain and not everything should be in a public domain visible to every Everybody uh so like we started with this like initial like what we call calimo we1 Concept

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    which was Private Charing uh but then with execution on private Charing and trying to build some of the applications which we initially wanted to build and I'm going to talk about a little bit about the history and like the the evolution of how we got to like the C 2.0 version we realized there were like some problems by using you know strong consistency consensus and like we came up with a new different architecture which very very fits um as

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    an extension to blockchains in general uh and which allows you to actually have like verifiable offchain compute in a very efficient way uh to build like different use cases I I'm going to touch more into as as as we go like we have few bounties so like we propose several bounties what we think would be interesting to be built uh but we also have like an open um you know build

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    whatever you want using near and um so like we want people to you know try maybe different things we we haven't think you know about maybe like maybe things which not POS like you know uh like people always come up with ideas you know like when ethereum started nobody thought about Defi and it happened and I think like the best ideas just happen randomly like same with near like people are experimenting different

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    things and I think like that's the way to go right absolutely absolutely no it's exciting so let's not waste anyone else's time here I want to dive into it because I'm sure there's a lot to go over um and you know let's just take this as um I'll let you you know Drive the ship here and you know we'll take questions if people come I may pause you for some questions myself as I'm trying to learn and go all over this but uh

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    I'll let you take over the Reigns here amazing I think like the the more questions the better and like at any point if something's not clear just stop me and ask me perfect so I'm like like I I said a little bit about like why we decided to build cimo so uh first point like not everything should be offchain one it can be very inefficient for certain use cases but it can be very efficient for some others um it can be also expensive I added a star it like

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    depends how you do do you define expensive like if you're messaging with friends and you have to pay for every single transaction maybe then it becomes expensive but like if you're sending a lot of money uh it's much more cheaper than using you know Banks um so like it's really how do you define the use case you want to build and like what tools you're going to use for for doing this uh secondly like security and privacy concerns uh there are security and privacy concerns

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    by putting stuff into the public domain or if you use centralized providers like if you use slack right slack has all the rights to do whatever they want to do with your data they can you know block you they can kill your account they can delete your data uh so there is like a counter party risk if you depend solely on on centralized providers but if you use you know public domain and you encrypt it still there like there is risk of you know losing the decryption

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    Keys uh or like clicking the decryption keys and and it can be a problem the other thing which I talk often about is like use what you preach I think like web three uh generally has this this problem which I I call use it what you preach like uh problem because everybody talks about oh I I really don't like people uh that you know exploit my data I really don't like that Banks rip me off when I send transactions but then still we often still uh you know use

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    these centralized providers and are not so good at adopting our technology um and like what we are kind of trying to solve is like how do we build really user experience apps to offboard people from the centralized providers and I think like one of the things which we really thought thought like I think I learned that near and like some previous companies I worked at like we are a

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    developer Tool uh and it has to be very very simple for developers to build on it and they should not think about oh is my data encrypted uh you know how do I build it how do I build a peer-to-peer Network like how do I share how do I manage permissions like all this stuff sh has to be really really simple like building a web to up uh so like you wanted to build a framework which essentially allows developers to really

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    really build easily build uh these types of things and I said like you know we had some like General assumptions of like what we wanted to achieve um and like few main points which we we decided that uh like there should be no Central Authority which stores your data at any point uh all the data should be like C side verified so like if I interact with Joe and Joe sends me some data and like we interact on like any type of app I should be able to verify like this data

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    is actually coming from Joe that you know Joe has permissions to do did certain things inside this app also like we really wanted strong encryptions like we wanted to ensure that like all the data transfers and um whatever ever leaves the like public domain is encrypted um and like we wanted to have local storage data so like if you know I use some app I want to have full control of like where my like you know application and data

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    lives and I just added this like if you want like a very very simple like this is going to be a very technical talk uh and like we're going to touch many many points but like Max from RBD team built Eli five like explain NE like five what is cimo and there's like a article link uh in the end like I I'm happy to share the presentation for people who want to see it or they can just like screenshot the either this or the link andent like what high level

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    overview like Ciro is so when we started we started with this private charting idea which was essentially a side chain built on top of here and then we realized okay like this really doesn't scale for like the certain use cases we are interested in uh so like we you know reshuffled the architecture and we decided to like okay let's make some compromises to to make this work better

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    uh but that like let's say a technical level uh we we have some storage the storage is device dependent so like all the data stored on the user device if you use a mobile phone um it can be roxb or like it can be something else in the future if you like your laptop or a server it can be you know uh again CR TB but Chim noes could also run inside a browser so you use your local storage

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    browser on top of that we have like a peer-to-peer networking layer and like what this layer essentially does like we us L peer-to-peer to have encrypt the data streams between nodes so let's say you have a social group with five friends uh every friend will get the replica of the data uh and they will be able to verify this data and the data will be encrypted so only five people can see it or like you have a DA and you

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    have proposals the same things apply so like we kind of abstract away this this this this for you I will show later on how then we have our runtime execution layer which is essentially like the layer which verifies all the transactions which happen peer-to-peer uh and like we use wasm because we believe that uh wasam is the future uh it allows you to build like in any development language you want So currently we support rust but in the

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    future you can add you know JavaScript you can add python you can add like any other language which compiles to uh wasam and like this really broadens your like developer um you know total addressable developer Market um and I think like you know web three developer Market is still very small uh and like if we really want to see succeed as an industry like obviously there's AI there's going to be a lot of generated

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    code uh but a lot of stuff will still be written by developers um and like we want get this web to crowd like you know I love privacy I'm in VB 2 I want to try it out um and then on top of that like we had really a strong strongly consistent you know algorithm like proof of authority everybody had to see it and like we replaced it with a crdt and essentially like what a crdt is is like

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    a conflict conflict free uh replicated data type so like we kind of um sacrifice very strong consistency over efficiency of data streams and then like obviously you have like an application binary currently in r on in the like other Frameworks um and then like we going to like I'm going to show some use cases how easy it is to build and like my assumption is that like web three wallets are becoming the new SSO like login SSO of the future like everybody will have a wallet um so like what we do

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    to our node you can attach different wallets so like if you have a m wallet you can attach your like account ID from near so that you know similar to like on WhatsApp you have a phone number right and if I have your phone number I can like reach out to you so same here if I know like your account ID I can just like find your note uh through the the ID and then we have like different developer sdks um and then like I mean

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    we are very focused on like you know this part of data data replication uh and like blockchains are really good at strong consistency so for example we use near uh for certain things uh so like we use near for like uh application network configuration so like all the members list all the configuration application versions or the package management all of this happens on here because we want like strong consistency between the

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    notes of like how they communicate Etc and then also like we we believe that like there's a strong cohesion between offchain and onchain uh so we have like support for like interacting with smart contracts on here so like you can read State um from our noes and like you can submit transactions craft them maybe in the future some chain abstraction stuff I think you can even do it now but you like we don't have an SDK for this at the moment we come here let me let me

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    pause you right here so we have a first question maybe fits into what you're just talking about so the first question that comes in is what chains data is Camaro working with so it sounds like it's starting with basically the near ecosystem and then we'll go out from there yes so I mean currently we support like three three chains I would say so we have like near we have Stark Stark

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    net uh and ICP and like we will support probably evm uh chains as well so like you can mix and match whatever you want so like you could have somebody with a metamask account and somebody with a near account and they can interact in one hour like one of the proposals I have is like a cross chain D so let's say all the very very things which you you want to be fast executed like maybe

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    sending transactions and payments can happen via chain abstraction on on here the price data can be on on calimero but then you can pay private Dows on like other networks right let say you have a dow of like five five different wallets and like you invest on different tokens on different chains like that could be um you know or like payroll right like somebody joins your company and say I

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    want to get paid on near or I want to be paid on ethereum in usdc so like you can Define these rules and then cross chain pay people as like that's like one of the hakon ideas we have uh as well nice so like yeah that's high level overview and I wanted to explain like I mean private offchain compute like I really see is like obviously have rollups and I I think like rollups are

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    still like a blockchain domain because they settle directly uh onto like our layer one right uh for us like we are kind of a separate Network which can give on our own but we integrate blockchains for like certain certain capabilities um and I wanted to make a distinction so like when we started with the side chain like we were kind of a blockchain type of protocol right so like we used proof of stake proof of authority like we had block times we had finality now with crdts we use like instant State discs so like if

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    you change some data you just submit the state D to the to the peers and they're like able to verify under certain conditions like is this state transition valid um obviously it's not as good as a blockchain like you cannot do payments on calimero but you can use near for payments and then use cero for like you know the other stuff you you you you want to do uh also I think like one one of the different things is like we really want to be on user devices so I see us as like a VPN replacement one day

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    in the future so like running on PC servers browsers mobiles while like blockchains are you know like remote nodes like RPC noes validator noes Arch noes so that's that's a general distinction also like we are all all client side verified so everything what you verify you verify on your device while you don't have Global consensus you have local consensus unlike blockchains and then I I mentioned like several times you have like eventual consistency uh between the notes so I added some articles like if

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    you really want to learn a little bit like what we call we call this like self- Sovereign applications um and for the reasons of like storing your data owning your data owning your money with interactions with blockchains like we have written some cool articles so you can screenshot this or find it on the Twitter and also you can find the El learn uh explain me like I'm fine on

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    GitHub uh and like I'm going to give you a high level overview of like how to build on calimero uh so like we have uh I think solid documentation we are still like in develop like we are still developer preview test net mode uh so like we are still changing things and I'm going to talk about the road map later uh but like our documentation is pretty solid so you can check out the documentation uh you can check out the

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    Quick Start of like how to build a new application uh you have the protocol SDK written in Rust uh there's like few examples I'm going to share as well we have the client SDK which is written in t script also in the future we're going to have probably different client sdks maybe we're going to have even bounties for people who want to you know be external contributors to kro to join us and we have like Merl which is the CLI

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    tool for debugging and general usage of like while building uh on on on your device um also we have like a cord app template uh so like if you just want to bootstrap an app very quickly and test it out uh you can just go to the GitHub and test test test that test that as well uh so like the Kimo GitHub is public uh like we recently open sourced it we added all the issues we added all the road map um you can see like all the

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    commits the programs the discussions we're going to really try to push the community Community to have like this transparency and for them to collaborate with us and like get involved in the project so like please check it out give us a star if you can it really means a lot to me and the team uh if we get uh GitHub starts on the project and I mean running you know it's it's just like some cargo run um and you can get a

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    coordinator for like your local development to to help you out and um like get the notes running and there's a question what is the stack to stream the data RPC or better stuff like subgraph substream Firehouse substream powered uh subgraphs um to stream the data to the blockchain uh for the externality gen like or or or generally or between like the Ciro notes if you can write it down and then

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    I will answer later uh so I don't answer the the wrong question and then like I mean building your first application I don't know if people can see uh these are like just screenshots from our documentation so I like really didn't want to uh explain every single thing I think the docs are quite solid but I mean if you can run rust and cargo uh and if you can read like basic documentation you can like just test it out uh we also have admin dashboard which is essentially a developer tool to like help you out uh

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    managing everything so you don't have to do all of the stuff for CLI uh which makes life easier um but like this shows essentially like how do how do you install an app uh how do you create a context so calimero runs on application context every application context is like think of it as a sharded peer-to-peer network with data streams for that specific app uh so if you have let's say if you wanted to build telegram every single channel would be a data stream and one application for context like if you designed it properly

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    um and one encrypted group or if you have a dow like every Dow would become you know one application config which initialize and you have an ID and like the members list and all of the things mentioned in the documentation um you can also see like I mean interacting with with with the the node is like pretty simple so you can just um use the CTL to like you create a new identity

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    attach a new identity list all the identity list all the context for a specific identity um all the things you would need to like you know basically develop um an app very quickly mhm let me I want to ask a quick question here so the way I think this is maybe kind of different than where I think again I want to get away from the differentiation between like a blockchain app and kind of what you guys are doing so because this is

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    peer-to-peer this is where only my application is sharing data amongst those peers or am I taking in all of the Calo data as like like like uh like a torrent system no you will only get the data you are interested in so if you run an application uh for like one channel and you have a Channel with five friends you're GNA only sub like you only get this data for this specific thing right um I think that's like what is different from blockchains like blockchains have

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    to you know cons reconcile consensus for like everybody right even if they're sharded you have one smart contract per per thing but then the thing is like many people can use the smart contract and like that's what here is really good it's really SC like horizontal scaling at the contract level MH um and here it's like you just if you have a company right with 10 people and you want to

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    have a better slack only these 10 people will observe the data or if you have channels only the people in the channels will be be able to to to observe this data like same for jira same for D maybe for groups on social uh maybe like different things can be built but only when you're saying no sorry when you're saying nodes you don't mean like validators you simply just mean the

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    application users connecting data exactly like when we say a Noe a note can be a like calimero node bundled inside an app you don't even know there's a note like a node Runing it's just like some software which verifies and runs the execution of of the app um you build and like the way you build the apps I mean it's like you you have this SDK uh we took some uh a lot of stuff from near like because we worked at near some of us um so we adapted the near run time for our use case like you define

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    like what are the structures you define something like events um which get emitted on certain things uh you you know Define the application logic and that's it like you have a microservice prto micro service building you know very very quickly and then the all the Noe you know the the the the the the calero node like does everything um below like all the verification uh all the encryption all the peer-to-peer mechanism everything and like we have near integration so

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    like you can log in I think with all major near wallets attach your identity to the to the node um you can also like query data from uh from uh from the chain uh like with standard you know RPC uh SDK and you can just like submit payloads by signing them by wallet if if you want or you can just or you could like at the application Level Implement you know thresold signatures or like some other uh type of of of of of of like uh you know transaction

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    signing and use a relayer uh to submit this uh and like we have a core up Templer I inan the corop template is just a counter uh but it gives you a basic understanding of like you know how do you connect your wallet how do you log in how do you attach the identity how do you build a calimero service contract um you have a frontend how do you connect to the front end so it's like a hello world uh type of application for for for us and obviously like I mean we we are a

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    very transparent public uh Community project and like we you know started with this private Char thing and evolved into this and now we running a bunch of hackathons and we really want the community to get involved and like you can get involved either on GitHub you know we have discussions reach out on GitHub say say hi on GitHub if you want create an issue uh whatever or also we

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    have a Discord so you can just jump into the Discord and like say hi guys I'm interested I would love to learn more um I would love to explore maybe you know like some opportunities um in in the ecosystem and just just reach out and like we we are happy to jump on a call um like we have like an all-in-one kind of uh support resource you can check out and again just reach out to us um and I wanted to talk a little bit also about like the road map I think

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    it's important to like you know we are like test n stage and anybody who wants to decide okay you know do I want to build on this tested project which is going main it uh soon I think they should should uh have an understanding like what what is coming uh after the developer preview so like we started with a different coordinator architecture and now we implemented the crdts so Q3 uh this is going live so

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    like that's getting finalized uh we have gated context we have a multichain config and we also have a desktop application for mac and Linux like all of this stuff is in the progress like you can go to the GitHub of the desktop app we like like developing proving it but you can follow the progress of the things which are going to be like finalized this quarter but sorry sorry one second the desktop app is to help

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    build so that's to like initial is not it's like a consumer thing you can install like instead of installing like instead of installing a VPN I like could install it uh on your laptop and like have an easy way like you have an easy way to manage it like let's say you want to stop it you want to change some settings you want to delete something it's essentially a widget which runs uh

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    next to like you know in the the top bar uh an easier way to do interactions um the node like interesting okay you know it's it's yeah it's interesting uh like I should have included a screenshot of it as well um but like what's more interesting maybe is like Q4 road map so in the Q4 road map we want to allow communication between apps because currently if you build an app on calo like every application context is a silo uh and what's coming in Q4 is that you will be able to Plug and Play these apps

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    so let's say somebody builds a calendar app for a company and somebody wants to build a cly app you can just connect this or if somebody has built a private Dow um application with cross chain payments and somebody's build payroll you'll be able to like interact between these to like not rebuild every single thing uh by yourself like full composability um and also like we have

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    like some contract permissions but developers have to do a lot of stuff on their own at the moment uh so what we want to do in Q4 is like findra permissions on the app level so it's really easy easy to Define like who can encrypt what who has permissions to change what state um and like some other things uh and then also obviously if you run everything on your local device uh there's the tasks which are heavy um which you will probably not be able to do so what we plan to launch a Q4 is like specialized node um and think of it

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    that this is like specialized node are like delegate compute nodes with Partners from the web3 ecosystem so you could have you know a delegated compute node for you know live Computing you could have one for um let's say spam filtering like if somebody builds spam filtering on near uh with you know encrypted data you could like delegate this uh to somebody else and pay for these services so like

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    cloudlike software as a service apis but decentralized um because like we cannot build everything like we really focusing on these um like we all facilitate these Integrations and means to use them but like really focusing on like how do we build the best product for like data uh verifiable data between people uh and then like Q 2025 so we obviously want to have new contract languages JavaScript and others uh if

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    somebody from Community wants to build them even before they can reach out and like we can have a discussion uh about the Bounty for this or we do not have the band at the moment to do so also we will have mobile and browser libraries we already tested uh some of these approaches but it's it's harder to run on mobile and browser than on desktop and servers uh so like it's going to

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    take us a bit time to like stabilize uh these features and also like we want to have better privacy on the Node level so like we will Implement some like Network anonymization techniques uh for like shielding your noes IPS and like maybe connecting to Tor and like some other um things and also like I mentioned specialized notes so like once the specialized notes you will have to like

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    apply and reach out to us to like add you uh but in 2024 we actually want to build like some specialized note compute Marketplace um so like you can just have a means to pay through calimero um and like get listed on a Marketplace and get get paid um and run like any decentralized compute uh you want so it's going to be a lot of like Partnerships on that side and really figuring out um the Integrations and I wanted to talk a

70. 34:41

    little bit more about you know what to build uh we have three zillion ideas uh I we picked like few which we think are really cool showcases and in my view some of them could become a company uh even after the hakon if people decide to build on it uh but we have this ided for like four Tex uh two of them are very near related so like nearest very AI uh driven and also very chain abstraction

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    driven so that made sense one was you know like just general calero privacy like build something on calero which like enhan privacy more open category uh and then like open Innovation challenges like build the craziest thing you can uh and we're going to be happy about it and I think like the fourth one is like if somebody really hits it on the nail like that could be the winner uh yeah like do

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    not stick to the ones we propos like if you stick one to the ones to like we propose like high probability we're going to like it because we've written them but I if somebody has a crazy idea uh go for it really go for it um and then there like I just added two ideas so like privacy preserving AI training uh so we thought about this idea that every calimero notes hold some data uh

73. 35:54

    and then you do like Federated learning um together like you don't reveal the data but you train the model and then you share the model with somebody else and then they do the training and then they share the model with somebody else um so you kind of do uh Federated learning if you're really interested in this uh our CTO chabby uh has some ideas how to build it with tensorflow and they're like their framework they already support some of these things um

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    so that's that's one of the ideas the second idea is I mean build a plugin for calimero that that that that's quite cool we would love to have ai writing more code for our apps uh so you get more apps built uh if you want to play with this like that would be pretty awesome the second is just chain abstraction so the idea is to build a private payroll management Tool uh there's like two components on near one is either pay uh only on near

75. 36:51

    or use chain abstraction to pay on other chains as well and then the part of the Privacy is like you know make the employee records peer-to-peer so like if I the employer and you are joob uh we should have a platform like where I share what is the salary what is the contract what what are my personal data and only me and you are able to see this data without anybody like if you execute a payroll and I issue an in which everything happens peer-to-peer between

76. 37:15

    us without ever relying on a centralized server also like we could maybe people could build you know do sign into this and you know maybe other things could be built into it and like it could become eventually a company uh but for for for for the hakon I mean like buil a demo which works and we're gonna be happy and then let's discuss more on the C privacy I mean I mentioned the Dow I will

77. 37:39

    showcase just a little example of how to do the Dow one other thing which I also it see seems interesting is like private cap management table uh so we seen this controversy this year with C Carta uh selling Founders data to third parties which reached out to the investors and tried to do secondary uh sales without the founders even knowing uh and it really became you know borderline yeah I'm not gonna say the word but it was not nice right if you give somebody your data they you know you should they should not use your data

78. 38:13

    without your consent in my view so like we came up with this idea that like um you know let's build a Carta showcase where PE like Founders can add their investors and the shares and maybe tokenize the shares on chain uh and have like private peer-to-peer OTC deals um or like secondary markets where like they say oh we going to sell uh and then submit to certain investors they going

79. 38:37

    to sell they sign it they find another investor um and I mean just a simple Showcase of like having a cap table tokenized where you can transfer it I think that's a good start but then like you can build you know on top of this um and one other thing is you know like company calendar application so something I would use at the company we use still Google heavily and sometimes I'm asham ashamed of it um but you know

80. 39:04

    like self hosting everything uh becomes uh hard and like I think one of the problems of Hosting everything is what calimo tries to solve like it really gives you one environment to host everything like you just make sure that the node is up and you're fine um and I would love to have like a company calendar or company slack or like some of the these these types of apps which could be replaced uh for people who really care about privacy uh and last I

81. 39:30

    mean private D so I have this chart if you want to look into it uh it's public but essentially showcase like you have four members in a dow you have four notes uh somebody sends a proposal this proposal gets replicated to all the uh you know other Dow members they can vote on it uh they use a threshold signature to to vote on it so it's like one signature which get which gets rolled uh and then like once it's a yes or or no the that signature gets submitted to near and then the payment

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    gets executed or not I think like that's a simple example and then you could do other things um by using this um as well and then last thing is open one do whatever you want uh also if you have a good idea just I mean send me a message uh like you can find me on telegram you can find me on on Twitter you can use the calimero DM GitHub Discord like whatever you you want just reach out to

83. 40:27

    us and say like ah we interested and like we going facilitate also we will provide a lot of support so like we are happy to jump on calls with you guys the brainstorm the ideas discuss the ideas uh help you maybe design even the thing um you know support with like maybe some features are missing and you think they really need to implement be be implemented like we can maybe Implement some of them now or in the future uh so

84. 40:50

    like you know any discussion is good and like we have prices like uh three price categories like the the the number of first one place is 8k uh second place is 4K third place is 1K so it's like 13k total Bounty uh you have a link to all the bounties uh and like I mean the three key objectives we want to see is uh I mean Innovation we even for the ones we proposed maybe somebody comes up

85. 41:16

    with some cool twist or somebody comes with a technical solution we haven't thought of second one is functionality so we would love to see something which works right we like ideally it's a but a functional demo the more the better uh if you can get it to even a alpha product stage like that would be amazing and then scalability obviously like the way how you design the solution uh is

86. 41:40

    quite important like we will take that into account uh but I think that's going to be like the the the the least interested one I think functionality in inovation are like the top two and then scalability is like if we have few projects we cannot decide then we going to take the design into architecture can bounties be stacked I mean if you can build three amazing projects and you're better than everybody else we are happy to give you all the three reward or all of the three

87. 42:11

    all all three rewards um yeah I also say across the whole redacted you can stack bounties so someone could submit to your Bounty as well as another one with the same project if it wins in both categories they G both prizes yeah same with us like we if you build three projects and they're all better than everybody else like I'm I'm more than happy to give the reward like we are a

88. 42:34

    meritocracy build the best thing and we we we we going to reward you um and maybe maybe we thrw like there's like really more projects than three maybe we throw in some additional additional thing on top like if somebody really kills it it will be sad to not not give them a reward for sure and yeah that's it I thank you and you know keep Shi keep working uh I think you know web

89. 43:00

    tree is growing every day privacy is growing every day um and let's see what what you guys can build nice uh let me ask you a few questions uh that I kind of came up with as you as you were going that maybe the audience might have to especially for those maybe watching on replay um I want to ask first about the uh wallet piece of it are you using the wallet login as part of the encryption process so is my private Keys part of that process or is it simply just a an identification part no so the node has

90. 43:33

    their their own encryption key uh okay an encryption three uh to be more specific uh so we use you we use your node as an identifier and a possibility to recover uh in the future so like let's say you back up your data to a specialized node and you lost your device like the device the data is hosted uh like you could have encrypted data right uh backups um and then you would verify with your wallet that you

91. 44:06

    are able to get this data out I got you right okay so it's an ownership piece and the the thing yes um or like to get also receive the data from a peer so let's say me and you are chatting and like you have the logs uh I can say just here's my new node ID and I can you can you stream me the the the state right uh so like that's going to there going to be some ad administrative and identity functionality tied to the wallet sure uh

92. 44:38

    but the node has their own like encryption stuff uh got it and maybe we use sometimes like the wallet for like certain things at the moment we don't okay can I still use the full account abstraction model on near for the wallet process like could I have my users sign up with email but then have my key in the background oh I do not know do we support fast near I would say well not just well say fast near let's just say in general is it is it about the wallet logging in specifically or is it about the private

93. 45:19

    key as the identifier yeah I think it's the account ID if I am fully correct on here but I cannot say 100% but if it's not we're going to change it we probably implement it that way in the future sounds good yes I don't know I don't know okay that sounds good um you kind of answered it um I had wrote in my notes um about like the node resources that it needs so right now it looks like it's running on desktop only you coming to mobile and browser uh um is it is this something where again uh

94. 46:02

    if I if I build like a a slack version of this right so everyone's communicating through it does there have to be that persistent node that is always running or is it simply just the fact that um at some point our machines will all like syn State at at some point so yeah that's that's a very very good question and a question we spent a lot of time uh thinking about so like what we want to have like there's either or like depends on the use case uh but like

95. 46:33

    either you will run your own note somewhere for the persistency or you will use a specialized note which are like this decentralized providers which allow you for a temporary time to store the data while you're offline um or like somebody else is offline let's say I change the state I will submit it and then when he comes back online he will pull off this state but this is state will be encrypted it will be only temporary stored between the the parts

96. 47:02

    uh but if you're a developer or a company then you can run just one one is always running and it just becomes is a relayer between the people right um so like or you can run your personal server right like that's also an option instead of having your desktop I can decide like at my home I have my personal server which just holds all the stuff as like you know like a you know email server you have pops and like once you go

97. 47:27

    online on your email it pulls uh pulls um pulls like SMTP right pulls your right uh data there but it's like crypted right like it's you cannot get it um so like it's really depending on the use case like if you trust the public domain the guys who run the specialized nodes I mean use them like if you're building something which you know but like maybe if you're building a company chat like running one server is not a hustle um or paying

98. 47:58

    somebody to run it for you like a specialized provider maybe in the future calimero provides like you know5 some on and run run a Noe and like we cannot see your data but like you know we are aligned with you guys that we're not going to Snoop right right right right no that's interesting you know approaches to it yeah I I like that and I I always try to drive some parallels especially for developers who are coming from like web 2 whatever else so again here where you're not saying that you

99. 48:30

    have the option to run in a manner that does not have a centralized server but if you're comfortable if it makes sense for maybe what you're get like the product you're building for scaling you can still have that same mental model of there's a server sitting in the middle here we can pull State back and forth from it and my application runs accordingly from there and it takes the

100. 48:53

     pressure off of making sure that all my users are always online or whatever it might be right so like as long as we have that that mental model I guess of architecture doesn't really change in this example I agree I agree I agree and we even discussed like I mean if people trust Google Drive uh and iCloud to store their encrypted data I mean they could back up the data there as well I mean people for what you encrypt it

101. 49:19

     right and you put it there and like maybe the worst thing which can happen is they censor you or they nucar data but like if you back it up on three different places uh the likelihood of data getting lost is is is you know borderline zero let's say uh yeah it really depends on the use case right like you want to provide this framework for building you know private peer-to-peer compute uh and then obviously you know some people will use blockchain some people will use maybe some C centralized component still maybe

102. 49:49

     store a little bit data somewhere uh about the thing maybe some people will go full Legion and just use specialized notes for data storage uh and and I think there's use cases there as well like you know like nothing I mean I not say nothing bad can happen but right generally you should be fine right awesome yeah um my last question here um again if anyone else in the audience has questions you're always ask welcome to just put them in the comments and and we'll we'll grab them quick before we wrap up here but just um you know we're okay if you kind of go

103. 50:21

     technical geared towards developers uh the cross context piece can you talk a little bit more about like how that will work and how it works yes uh so the idea is like generally the idea will be that you will add like currently you will add a specialized note like you will as a member the network context ID will become a member of the other network so they will be able to like V Access

104. 50:50

     Control list either like read some data or send some data so let's say I can give like let say I have a calendar I can have a function which says like return my calendar but only with blocks right okay like you know remove the data of of what is inside you know the title with who I'm have I meeting just return like what are the available slots and then somebody could build on top of that like another application which is able to call this function to read this data and then also maybe submit a slot so it will say like this

105. 51:21

     application context can submit a new invite or they can read the like the blocks of the app like let's say that's an example uh or like if you have you know like I mean there's you know other use cases where this is but like you will give permissions like essentially like the other network will virtually become part of your network uh and they will be able to like either decrypt some

106. 51:46

     certain state to call some functions or they will be able to like submit some state which will like then be verified uh on on on the the other side um that's kind of like the high level idea we haven't started implementing it yet uh like that's for Q4 uh but that's like high level design how we're thinking about it and so that's why it ties in with the acl's coming as well because you need be able to have that more granular access uh yes yes um somebody's asking

107. 52:19

     how can we reach out to Sandi or calimo um so I said either join our Discord and ask send us a GitHub ticket uh issue or comment in the discussion or you can reach out also to me on telegram like my telegram is Chef sale uh if you go to my Twitter it's the same on telegram as well perfect perfect yes or send me a DM on Twitter like that works as well like whatever whatever means we we will

108. 52:49

     figure it out uh maybe on some place we're going to be slower but we going to respond in a reasonable matter thank for my question can you type it in I can we share my T like my Twitter that's it right and it's the same yeah that's like the same as my telegram account um or like GitHub as well I'm on GitHub as well so uh you can post on GitHub as well like anything works and Discord and

109. 53:20

     can we share the slides maybe or like how can I share slides I will I okay I'll figure it out uh maybe we post it on calero the slides and people yeah if you want to post I ask the team I will ask the team on calimero Twitter to post the links uh maybe not B today or tomorrow uh we'll figure out but yeah follow us on Twitter and we all post it there yeah we we can we can also link to it in the uh the show notes for on YouTube and stuff like that as people watching aome as well that's

110. 53:53

     awesome awesome uh s this was great uh I learned a lot uh I'm excited to see what people build uh I think what you guys are doing is really cool uh I I really appreciate the mission statement as well so uh I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope people uh really push the limits here and and build some cool stuff with you guys thank you so much and one more time very nice speaking with you I I we haven't speak for a long time maybe you

111. 54:23

     invite me to the chain abstracted podcast as well uh one day in the future once we get main it you are part of it right you host it I don't actually host it no um but I'll get you on there don't worry I I'll get one day one once we launch mayet then then get me on there get me yeah I mean I invite everybody please guys reach out to us I I really I really uh would love as many hackers and like we really want to provide all the support and work with you guys so yeah

112. 54:53

     happy hacking perfect awesome thank you so much Sandy I appreciate the time today yeah no worries see you bye bye bye all right guys that was awesome um I I personally learned a lot uh this is something I think is like really really cool uh let me bring up here uh I'm going to actually show the redacted stuff just so you guys can see uh a little bit more because there are actually some questions I saw as well here let me pull this up uh okay so a

113. 55:23

     couple things that uh to be aware of with redacted here if you are participating uh so please go to the site here I can share the let's share the URL too so everyone can see that really clearly uh here we go uh redacted devpost tocom register here uh this is where all the information is there's also a digest that goes out and you can get information about like what's going on so go through the updates and see you

114. 55:53

     know what's happening again live streams like there's other workshops that are going on that you want to join into you can go see uh in general uh again all the rules are right here you can break it down there's tons of different again prizes uh we're almost at $700,000 in prizes that's amazing so much great stuff you can build you can stack bounties so if there's things that make sense for you to build uh and to be in for you know two different categories

115. 56:19

     you can absolutely go and do that uh there's actually was a a good question here let's see if I can find it um yeah so uh again uh you know team size rules everything's on here uh again you you're more than welcome to have a team of different sizes one of the things that we've been talking about on some different episodes really is uh having a a plan and really trying to experiment and and see what you can do you have until October 25th that's a lot

116. 56:54

     of time still so you over a month still to build uh you can try different things uh that's a great question uh if if if you're in the near ecosystem no we are not the same guy we have been confused before hilarious question um but uh you know this is something where I really would love for people especially developers to try stuff come talk to us at devhub ask us questions say hey I tried this I got stuck you know and we can work through it again

117. 57:28

     you know this is where uh there's so much happening in the near ecosystem with Partners within the ecosystem directly with AI chain abstraction uh just general again you know all the normal blockchain stuff as well is all still in here so really encourage you to go and try that stuff we have tons of support uh you can get to all those links um through the redacted uh devpost site but also too um here so again you

118. 57:55

     can see all of that stuff for under resources if you want to get help uh you can see our telegrams uh come jump in to the different telegram chats uh we are more than happy to help both the uh devs from devhub as well as just community members uh to an active Community to everyone there to help uh also too if you are uh interested in going to the IRL event and let me pull that up uh I have it somewhere here we go here's the link redacted bangkok. a

119. 58:30

     there is an IRL event in November so it's after the online hackathon is over that's where they'll announce the winners and things like that you do not have to go to win a prize uh it's simply it's a separate event that's in conjunction with this online hackathon so again we encourage you to participate in one or both um those opportunities are all there for you uh also here at uh at at near devhub we have a lot of different other things going on and I

120. 59:01

     really wanted to bring attention to a couple different things that uh I'm really excited about let me just pull it up here on on my site so you guys can see this all right here we are if you haven't already seen uh we have there's an app that we are supporting called race of sloth um and race of sloth is is all about open source contributions and coming up here uh in in October oh we want to see the

121. 59:33

     bank Co link we'll bring that right back up real quick while I'm talking no problem uh so rth the Sloss is something that uh we're really proud of and and we're excited to see that people participate uh being able to get rewarded for building on open source and one of the cool things here that is happening is not only can you start earning points and uh building you know through uh contributing to open source through grac loss they actually have an event

122. 1:00:03

     happening uh this October and let me let's see if I have a let see if I have a fun image for I don't know if I have a fun image for it but uh let me let me kind of give you an overview so it's called Roth October Fest so like race of sloth October Fest uh this October rith SL is hosting a month-long event where you can contribute to open source rust in JavaScript projects and win your

123. 1:00:27

     share of 10,000 in uh near uh stable coin so that would be in in USD uh stable coin so uh that is something where again it's all about meaningful contributions and having fun there is no real special criteria which is really awesome here you just do your best if you try to contribute to some of the different projects that are are there uh from October 1st which is the start date to October 31st uh all your different sub misss just you know you tag the race

124. 1:00:57

     of sloth bot in any GitHub comment and that was all listed here on their website uh and it will automatically be tracked uh all the contributions will be reviewed on November 4th winners will be announced shortly after uh make sure you're following their Twitter which is all linked on here on their website and uh from there you can get involved uh it's a great opportunity to get rewarded

125. 1:01:19

     for contributing to open source uh you can see they have a a leaderboard with people who are actually you know know contributing they have both month and all time it's a fun way to get involved and you can see all the different projects that are available to actually contribute to and you can see it's quite a long list uh so there's a lot of different places for you to get involved and contribute to open source and in the month of October maybe win some money so

126. 1:01:44

     uh lots of good stuff a lot of good opportunities for developers here uh we're really excited here at devhub to you know make sure that you know developers are having an opportunity to you know uh feel like that they are a meaningful part of the community because uh these communities don't happen without developers uh near doesn't happen without developers we want to make sure that uh you're a big part of

127. 1:02:07

     that so let's uh let's wrap it up here uh we will be back next week with more workshops there's be more stuff going on keep following along here uh at our stuff if you don't already get it um let me pull it up here real quick uh so we have a newsletter for at devhub and that newsletter comes out every Monday it is full of all different great resources of what's happening in near ecosystem for developers uh updates to the sdks to the tooling things that

128. 1:02:37

     are happening events whatever you could think of uh you know it's all there for developers we synthesize it for you every Monday so make sure you're subscribed to that and check that out uh but until then uh I'm I'm your host Joe thank you so much to Sandy and calero network for joining us today giving us great work shop and if you have any questions please uh make sure you reach out to the to us at devhub to calam to

129. 1:03:03

     anyone uh the near ecosystem and we will be there to help and support you uh keep building keep hacking and we'll see you next week thank you oh