{"id":"u7AutZcIWPQ","title":"Layer 1 Stage |  In Conversation With Anchorage Digital's Diogo Mónica","description":"In Conversation With Anchorage Digital's Diogo Mónica, presented by Diogo Mónica of Anchorage Digital, Illia Polosukhin of NEAR Foundation, at NEARCON 2023.\n\nJoin NEAR's community:\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nReddit:   / nearprotocol  \nDiscord: https://near.chat/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nGitHub: https://github.com/near  https://github.com/nearprotocol\nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nCreate a wallet: https://wallet.near.org/create\nApps on NEAR: https://awesomenear.com/\nLearn to Build On NEAR: https://www.near.university/\nGrants & Funding: https://near.org/grants/\n#Blockchain #FutureisNEAR #NEAR #nearprotocol\n#nft #dao","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2023-11-27T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/u7AutZcIWPQ/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"uh hello everyone again I'm here with Dio I'm really excited about it Diego has joined us at near Foundation conso as a chairperson uh and I'm really excited about this but uh before we dive into that let's um you know let's get aogo to introduce himself and how did you get to crypto what has been you know some of the interesting story of kind of how you started Anchorage and you know what Anchorage is now well uh hi everyone uh great to meet you U thank you for welcoming welcoming me to the near ecosystem and Community it's been uh pretty fun um even though kind of crazy um past month and a half two months um it's also I love the description how I was introduced which a friend and colleague I love that uh that's how I should be introduced every single time okay so for those of you that don't know me I'm actually pretty odd duck in crypto I work on the dark side of crypto which is CI um my name is Yogo Monica I'm the founder of a company called Anchorage digital Anchorage digital is as boring as crypto companies can come in fact we have a pretty cool claim which is we are the first and still only federally charted Bank in the US that means that Anchorage actually has I don't know that that's cool but I think so so it's the same Charter as JY Morgan Chase so if JY Market Chase is a bank they're bank because they have a charter by the OCC which is the oldest um Bank Reg l in the United States Office of the control of the currency and we have the exact same Charter so we're a bank like J Morgan Chase is a bank which is pretty exciting for crypto because we're the first ones to do and it legitimizes crypto and it really brought crypto into the banking system we custody crypto Assets in a bank inside of traditional Finance that's really cool it's also extremely painful as you'd imagine because compliance is Bank compliance um the the the interesting thing about how wi digital was was started is that my intent from the the beginning with Michael founder Nathan was never to really create a bank per se our goal was as two security Engineers that we were um really building a solution to a problem that we had at the time and the problem that was at the time was that all these crypto funds and Venture funds were being created because of the Ico boom they were investing in these weird digital assets that were held in self- custody based on private Keys which as you know are glorified passwords and we're losing them so the the way that Anchorage got started actually was was the fund in 2017 that came to me because it had lost the P phrase to a $1.5 million Bitcoin wallet and they offered me 20% if I could break into it and that's how I got introduced to the business you know what a great business model people give you money and you get to keep 20% that's not there's no blockchain that keeps 20% fee at least that I know of um so that that was that's how the business actually got started in the the front part of that of course my background is a little bit different than that and how I got there we can talk about it if it's interesting but that's how Anchorage actually got started was technical security to security Engineers coming together to really store private Keys yeah and I think that's extremely important as you said to legitimize crypto to bring it to people who either not planning to do self- custody or don't know how to do it or you know have a lot of money which requires a way higher kind of um bar for compliance and control over the system right because I mean it's totally normal to store someone of money on your phone with like normal access but you definitely don't want to do that with millions of dollars and especially with billions that's right and and the interesting thing is that I I also see this in your path to crypto and the the AI papers and things like that was actually pretty fascinating but there's this massive amount of luck um of just being in the right place at the right time so it's kind of fascinating because 15 years ago I was working on something that was absolutely useless at the time time just absolutely useless I was doing a PhD in something called distributed systems that nobody cared about and I was publishing papers on something that I called computational resource tests and that now we call the way better marketing term proof of work and so marketing matters deeply number one number two I was working on um hash cash doing civil protection I was doing distributed systems and just doing Security in in this space and it was just Absol absolutely an academic Pursuit and it's kind of absolutely fascinating to Think Through reading a paper reading practical bantine full tolerance by Miguel K through or reading paos or reading some of the salal Byzantine General papers or all of these in just 15 years ago 17 years ago they were just ideas pretty much intellectual discussions between PhD students and professors in universities trying to get P published in conferences that nobody has ever heard of uh well now they probably have because all the VCS are just trolling the pages of all the Publishers of all these conferences in both Ai and uh and crypto conferences but you know eurocrypt how many people had heard about eurocrypt um DSN how many people had heard about DSN nobody cared about these conferences and they were the conferences of distributed systems so I was just lucky enough to had been interested from security from a very early age um and security really was my passion well when I was 12 or or 13 hacking into my friends computers my passion but that's what led to the passion of security of course eventually and that's what got me on that path is kind of fascinating you can describe Anchorage as many different things sure we're a crypto company yeah you can describe us as a crypto company but you can also easily describe us as a security infrastructure company you can also easily describe us as a bank I personally like to describe us as a tech company that owns a bank not as a bank that does deck because those two things are very different as you as you might expect um even though we do have enough compliance people to call ourselves a real Bank um so you know you have that uh as as a stat for you um I'm sorry for that no it's it's it's necessary and it's actually fascinating one one of the things that I found the most fascinating has been well there's many things here but I I'm both an American citizen because I was born in the US but I'm actually Portuguese too uh I grew up in Portugal so and I just moved back to Lisbon about six weeks ago so you know my life is is back and forth but but when things get hard in Portugal I say I'm American and when get get cheated in the US I say I'm Portuguese so I'm always like switching hats and like using different shirts to to claim that both countries are amazing every time in the US somebody complains about IDs and like how the system is bureaucratic and you need papers I talk about our citizens card and digital signatures and then people there talk about like starting a company and then um or people here start talk about starting a company and I complain about the bureaucracy and I complain about all the you know things that Portuguese people just force you to do to do anything um anyway it's it's it's pretty funny but one of the things that has been the most fascinating for me as an American citizen has been interacting with not just The Regulators but the the government apparatus going to the White House meeting Senators seeing how the sausage gets made is kind of scary um seeing the lobbying participating in the lobbying getting lobbyists actually being part of the system and seeing how things actually evolve is is is kind of scary concerning and as a citizen is just just look at it and it's like okay I thought this was a rumor uh I thought the way the way thing work the things actually work just more process to the chaos but yeah yeah and or or something that people people described as a conspiracy theory that this is actually how things were and then you get there and there oh no it uh it actually works this way okay cool so now you're in lisban that's pretty much your conclusion of that after you interacted with all the US government well yeah there are downsides on both sides um but but but the story of Anchorage also is um is kind of interesting because it was started in San Francisco and my Liv living room and pre- pandemic we were actually 70 something people and then we wake up in a world post pandemic and the West Coast which was San Francisco specifically was 95% of Anchorage employees not Bay Area San Francisco was 95% of Anchorage employees and we've never really been Pro remote um I've always thought that I wasn't a good enough manager to really hire and manage a remote team so you know we had this founder philosophy that just remote was not something we were interested in and at the time we we were able to implement it because it was prepandemic the pandemic hits and all of a sudden what happens is what happened to all of you but we wake up in a world where we had over 300 people and the large majority of them were not not just San Francisco not Bay Area at all so we go from 95% San Francisco to less than 20% Bay Area and Portugal actually now has almost half of our engineering so we have almost 100 people in Portugal and so obviously I have Affinity to the country I I studied in these universities this is where I did my my bachelors my masters my PhD I had the connectivity I had had the teachers I knew I could actually get there's not that many Portuguese unicorns who can get the marketing going to hire good good engineers and good people and we did that successfully and so we ended up with almost 100 people in Portugal which then brings me back to Portugal because obviously the time zone it's not like everybody's in the US and I'm here um and and I think you've done similar things right you found pockets of talent yeah I mean we we went from I don't know we had 20 something people and one actually uh Jake here uh was remote and then we went yeah like everybody remote kind of growing and then also separating and decentralizing and becoming more and more of a collective that's Global that has people everywhere that has hubs everywhere and yeah and now it's actually this time zone indeed is kind of the middle ground between Asia and America and you can actually cover it very well and so yeah I think that that has been also like an interesting question yeah like if you are in Asia or in us like you actually are kind of missing out on part of this and versus here you have like a wide range as well so I'm actually curious because we we we sell to institutions so our clients are Visa Sovereign wealth funds big Banks every single Venture fund you've ever heard of is a client so we have tens of billions of dollars on the platform and we do staking custody buy and sell that those are our services those are our clients we do not touch retail we do not touch retail we don't do retail we don't want to do retail so we we don't we don't touch it um and that's you know part of the secret of actually having a bank that is a bank is because we were institutional only and so that helps because from a regulatory perspective the target is not on you uh there's no poor retail ever being hurt because we just don't serve them and the institutions are sophisticated so if they do something wrong and invest in the bad asset and they lose all their funds nobody's going to be sad about you know some poor institution that invested their money um still made fees but but lost their funds so it's it's a very different thing but but for foundations I've always kept myself credibly neutral from an asset perspective so this is actually the first uh Foundation that I'm joining um and and at this point we're big enough for me not to be close to the decision- making on asset support for this to actually be something that I can do uh credibly but I've always wondered whether for protocols and for foundations it is an advantage to actually be remote and distributed because the community building is such a big portion of it that being in the pockets and actually being close that is must be a massive Advantage versus I don't know visaa protocol that is just like 95% San Francisco is that is that the case yeah I think it's the case and it's also part it's part of philosophy and it's part of how you build a team it's part of people also want to meet somebody who works kind of in a core team or in a close to core team and H having people everywhere that are core people allows to also have this interactions more often and then I think like we've seen this for kind of more local blockchain that kind of launched for a specific country um like that really hard for them to break out of that mode right because it becomes kind of unfulfilling and blockchains are at the core Global phenomena it's at the core a place to unite everyone to build this you know composable platforms bring everybody together create open markets that are Global in first place and so whenever you target something local either by the team location or by kind of just your marketing and and Market positioning you are kind of actually you know Crossing yourself out from this whole Global phenomena that blockchain is and I think that is really important piece and uh you know at the same like the philosophy of you know open web the one we are really uh kind of pushing for is really around you know allowing everyone in allowing kind of people to participate to contribute doesn't matter where you are doesn't matter I I love to say you know if you're an account on chain it doesn't matter if you're a cat right um like you could be participating in exactly the same terms and so uh like I think like opening that up is important and geography then doesn't matter time zones do sadly that's a probably I wish there was no time zones and we can all live in the same time and maybe we can start by getting rid of daylight savings uh that would be slow progress yeah ah now there there you go this is my uh beginning of my political campaign here for prime minister Portugal for I think or or you directly actually I have a I have another question for you sorry I know you were supposed to be interviewing me but um we had dinner last night and I had this one I've been I've been this is a spicy take and I've been thinking about this uh for a while and I just love your opinion and since we're chatting with a great group of people matters all I think through this uh but this is a spicy take so so so take me uh take take me here U for for a minute give me a break here but I have this idea that one of the reasons why lots of protocols have failed in our space in why we've had maybe not enough engagement from both community and Founders has been because the for a space that believes deeply in incentive alignment we've always built these protocols with massive misalignment of incentives for the founder specifically and what I mean by that is I think this space will not work as successful as it could until New protocols that are created that are based on any kind of token or any kind of incentive have token lockups investing that is actually equal or similar to any other founder that is creating a company and raising Equity if I'm a Founder raising dollars we've raised almost $500 $500 million $500 would be also pretty impressive 500 million dollars and there's no liquidity there's no liquidity for 7 to 10 years that's the average for an equity company the founders stay the workers stay everybody stays so how is it possible to really build a fundamentally successful protocol if you get liquidity on year one or year two or year three it's not just that the founders lose interest necessarily is that they're not really incentivized to stay and a lot of people I've seen you know became fa fabulously wealthy and then you also have the negative component that I actually saw Square post IPO go through which is once the stock and your price and your net worth is public you're looking at it every day and your loss aversion means that days that is up you don't feel anything you feel normal but days that it's down you feel really bad um and so Dad lost a version of like feeling two loss 2x then the gains actually is like very corrosive and in crypto this happens but I I legitimately think until token Founders specifically but also employees have a investing schedule that is actually closer to an equity in terms of timeline say seven years I I don't think we're going to get passed through the really really hard stuff of product building and like go to market I would love your hear opinion on this yeah I think there's a lot of Truth around that the the kind of fast liquidity is corrosive not just for the team but also for the backers who participate because it's also like now they looking at it as well and like now they're like now it's a trade for them not just backing and kind of you know building for the future so I think this has been a probably a big negative side of the space we actually uh for for our team uh kind of everyone have set up first of all the lockup started at mainnet so there was motivation for everyone to to actually launch main net uh so even though like the kind of the the normal vesting right like employee vesting but um or contributor vesting but the lockup started from this and then uh and then it was pretty much four year from mainnet so it actually didn't end yet uh and it was like kind of align with like the longest backers as well so um and so I definitely like we've been trying to maximize that pretty much as much as possible I do think that like for projects that are launched in now if they have an ability to do that and kind of uh I think the problem is and like I think this is General problem with crypto has been is that like because of the market dynamics it's the same as like in 21 there was like people were shooting money from the guns right like instead of t-shirt it was like you know 500k Grand in Portugal I think we call it the Bazooka yeah uh and so like that kind of created this whole slice of you know people who believe this is normal right and so the same with like crypto incentives and like crypto vs as well there's a whole slice of people who think this is normal like the the only thing that is like worth investing is in the token that will that will be liquid for them in you know a year like they actually put Provisions into the in like some of the uh contract so I think the the challenge right now is like we kind of need to change the market dynamics in general such that Founders are able to like create the equal opport opportunity for both them and backers to have kind of a more aligned like building out a real future uh value and I think like like I'm not sure how we can actually get there at at the current stage right I think that's that's really the challenges like the market adjustments is happening I think like the valuation adjusting but that structures are still uh more shortterm than they should be but in general I totally agree I think the biggest kind of the core team continued pushing together continue working is the most important and you know we have like some people who transition out but a lot of people are still in the ecosystem working across different hubs and that's I think one of the benefits is compared to a company when somebody transitions off they go and you know do something else and the ecosystem there's a lot of things to do and you can actually go and do something in the ecosystem continue growing it in a different capacity right maybe you don't like the role you were in you maybe want to try something else so you have this opportunity to continue grow join the ecosystem but not maybe indirectly like the employee relationship that you started with and I think that is being actually beneficial for contining growing in ecosystem okay that's interesting well at least for any companies that we fund we can always think about things like that and aligning the incentives yeah I think yeah I mean as we work with Founders and I'm really excited kind of within this context you know working with Founders helping them set up a structure that maximize kind of the their success you know in building their Vision right at the end like that's kind of that's why you start like if you if you're for financial outcome there better you know for many of the smart Founders there's better ways to have a short-term Financial outcome including investment actually uh for for time uh spent on building this for sweats build on building this and so like you know you're starting the company because you want to bring this Vision together and so I think like structure it in such a way where you as a Founder are able to continue pushing forward there's I mean there's ways to like the benefit is the tokens is just information and the the market is just another piece of information right and so you can structure the token in a way that can be you know useful for your you know incentive structures for decentralizing the ecosystem for unborn new people while the incentive part for the team Etc can be structured as well like like I mean it's just code right you can write the code that that's a benefit compared to equity Equity is like it's kind of predefined right and it has a like yes I mean you actually can you know sit down with lawyers and write 500 pages of documents but then you need to also execute it it's like super complicated explain to everyone here you can just write a smart contract that exactly outlines the motivations that you want right you can maximize for example unlock based on kpis right it can be that you know that we actually align the whole ecosystem to achieve some specific goal and now it's actually a kind of positive SU game for everyone to push toward that right and in a way that's what kind of Bitcoin started with like it says you know everybody's incentivized to continue building this chain it's just like that was a very simple kpi let's build the longest chain and hopefully it's going to be useful but you can have a lot more complex things now we have oracles that can provide you with information you can have an AI Oracle that actually analyzing potentially information about the projects that you're building that's providing this context back into your token to lock or provide you know additional emissions based on that right so like you can design things that are kind of more novel and I think that is that the benefit of this technology that we have is like we have such a programmability that we never had before I I I saw a lot of the companies in the ecosystem that I've been kinding meeting a lot of these CEOs and these Founders and something that has uh struck me as interesting that I haven't seen yet is I've seen a lot of applications of zero knowledge proofs within our own space so you know on the rollups and trying to make things more efficient and effective which makes a ton of sense uh because we want lower fees we want higher throughput we want just better ways and just stronger Primitives to to achieve things that we couldn't before I haven't actually seen great zero knowledge proof applications that are Bitcoin Bitcoin based um for things that I would have thought are obvious and are kind of needed I don't know um there's a cool paper by Bonet um which um you you take a picture now that the Sony cameras actually have yeah a cryptographic key they have a cryptographic key and then they sign every picture that comes from a camera so you know if a picture actually comes from a war zone or if it was generated by Dolly you have no idea um and so it actually signs the picture but then the problem is you're a media outlet and you either put the full picture you know 50 whatever megabytes of picture because that's the original picture that got they got signed was the raw format of the picture and so how can we crop it how can we reduce it in size and so there's these cool um ways to prove in zero knowledge that a subset of a picture or a sub verion of the picture actually sign up to the original picture that came from the camera so cool utility like that that we can actually know if pictures coming from um from Gaza are actually from Gaza or from Israel are actually from Israel like we don't know what the source of these things are and it's very important for us to have great information and so that that's an interesting use case in application and then obviously like the use of something like near in which is very cheap for me to actually do these commitments and have somebody like Sony or Nikon or whatever particip seems like a very obvious use case why have I have I not seen not this specific use case because I'm likely missing something trivial that does make it work but just zero knowledge use cases that are just obviously like great for Humanity and Society kind of like implemented right now I think I mean the reality is like this technology just started to scale to something that's like reasonably like powerful right like imagine I mean what you just described the use case of um convered 50 megabyte image down to let's say I don't know 300 kiloby right and usually it's done by you know set of filters and maybe potentially some like neuron Network as well now and 50 megabytes is actually a lot of data that the current zero knowledge circuits probably cannot handle right and especially the zero knowledge circuits of last year could not handle at all so we actually just get into a stage where it's possible to start pushing this much data or this much compute right so for example for zkl I think this's heon project actually going to present an example of that like KL right now the limitation is on how much like you know usually all the ne networks have layers and so like every layer you can prove it individually and then compress all the proofs of each layer so it doesn't matter how many layers it has but the amount of parameters each layer outputs right The Matrix that outputs you need to prove that and you need to commit on that and that that is actually expensive and so right now I think it's like 10 million parameters is the max we can have right which is 10 megabyte or like um kind of 40 megabytes for example right so like we just getting to that stage where this is the size that's possible but I think this use case is extremely important and also like it wasn't really well understood that we need this prior to some of the recent events and like kind of just more generative AI Resurgence I think that is kind of in general a Content um tracking content understanding reputation of the entity's publishing will become extremely important and having like this supply chain of data and zero knowledge proofs with it will become extremely important uh component of that but like more of this use case will be coming as this technology scales and like like not just scales but also becomes more effic effective and efficient there's Hardware accelerators that are also been built so like I think we just getting to see it coming but it's like it was not like I mentioned with Jordy like in 19 we actually ban word zero knowledge because it didn't like you could use it for everything but it didn't work right and so now it's actually like we investing in it you know partnering across the ecosystem and I think we'll see a lot more exciting stuff for this awesome well if somebody wants to build a company like that I know somebody at Sony so I don't know there might be some funding for you yeah I think we just ran out of time indeed we did all right well thank you hopefully you met uh uh Dogo and uh yeah exciting to be here thank you Dogo","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T06:16:04.831Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":2,"text":"uh hello everyone again I'm here with Dio I'm really excited about it Diego has joined us at near Foundation conso","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=2s"},{"start_seconds":11,"text":"as a chairperson uh and I'm really excited about this but uh before we dive into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=11s"},{"start_seconds":17,"text":"that let's um you know let's get aogo to introduce himself and how did you get to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=17s"},{"start_seconds":24,"text":"crypto what has been you know some of the interesting story of kind of how you started Anchorage and you know what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=24s"},{"start_seconds":32,"text":"Anchorage is now well uh hi everyone uh great to meet you U thank you for welcoming welcoming me to the near ecosystem and Community it's been uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=32s"},{"start_seconds":40,"text":"pretty fun um even though kind of crazy um past month and a half two months um it's also I love the description how I was introduced which a friend and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=40s"},{"start_seconds":49,"text":"colleague I love that uh that's how I should be introduced every single time okay so for those of you that don't know me I'm actually pretty odd duck in crypto I work on the dark side of crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=49s"},{"start_seconds":58,"text":"which is CI um my name is Yogo Monica I'm the founder of a company called Anchorage digital Anchorage digital is as boring as crypto companies can come","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=58s"},{"start_seconds":67,"text":"in fact we have a pretty cool claim which is we are the first and still only federally charted Bank in the US that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=67s"},{"start_seconds":74,"text":"means that Anchorage actually has I don't know that that's cool but I think so so it's the same Charter as JY Morgan","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=74s"},{"start_seconds":82,"text":"Chase so if JY Market Chase is a bank they're bank because they have a charter by the OCC which is the oldest um Bank","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=82s"},{"start_seconds":89,"text":"Reg l in the United States Office of the control of the currency and we have the exact same Charter so we're a bank like J Morgan Chase is a bank which is pretty exciting for crypto because we're the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=89s"},{"start_seconds":97,"text":"first ones to do and it legitimizes crypto and it really brought crypto into the banking system we custody crypto Assets in a bank inside of traditional","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=97s"},{"start_seconds":105,"text":"Finance that's really cool it's also extremely painful as you'd imagine because compliance is Bank compliance um the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=105s"},{"start_seconds":114,"text":"the interesting thing about how wi digital was was started is that my intent from the the beginning with Michael founder Nathan was never to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=114s"},{"start_seconds":122,"text":"really create a bank per se our goal was as two security Engineers that we were um really building a solution to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=122s"},{"start_seconds":130,"text":"problem that we had at the time and the problem that was at the time was that all these crypto funds and Venture funds were being created because of the Ico","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=130s"},{"start_seconds":138,"text":"boom they were investing in these weird digital assets that were held in self- custody based on private Keys which as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=138s"},{"start_seconds":146,"text":"you know are glorified passwords and we're losing them so the the way that Anchorage got started actually was was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=146s"},{"start_seconds":153,"text":"the fund in 2017 that came to me because it had lost the P phrase to a $1.5 million Bitcoin wallet and they offered","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=153s"},{"start_seconds":161,"text":"me 20% if I could break into it and that's how I got introduced to the business you know what a great business model people give you money and you get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=161s"},{"start_seconds":168,"text":"to keep 20% that's not there's no blockchain that keeps 20% fee at least that I know of um so that that was that's how the business actually got","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=168s"},{"start_seconds":176,"text":"started in the the front part of that of course my background is a little bit different than that and how I got there we can talk about it if it's interesting but that's how Anchorage actually got","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=176s"},{"start_seconds":183,"text":"started was technical security to security Engineers coming together to really store private Keys yeah and I think that's extremely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=183s"},{"start_seconds":192,"text":"important as you said to legitimize crypto to bring it to people who either not planning to do self- custody or don't know how to do it or you know have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=192s"},{"start_seconds":201,"text":"a lot of money which requires a way higher kind of um bar for compliance and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=201s"},{"start_seconds":208,"text":"control over the system right because I mean it's totally normal to store someone of money on your phone with like normal access but you definitely don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=208s"},{"start_seconds":215,"text":"want to do that with millions of dollars and especially with billions that's right and and the interesting thing is that I I also see this in your path to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=215s"},{"start_seconds":223,"text":"crypto and the the AI papers and things like that was actually pretty fascinating but there's this massive amount of luck um of just being in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=223s"},{"start_seconds":232,"text":"right place at the right time so it's kind of fascinating because 15 years ago I was working on something that was absolutely useless at the time time just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=232s"},{"start_seconds":240,"text":"absolutely useless I was doing a PhD in something called distributed systems that nobody cared about and I was publishing papers on something that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=240s"},{"start_seconds":249,"text":"called computational resource tests and that now we call the way better marketing term proof of work and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=249s"},{"start_seconds":257,"text":"marketing matters deeply number one number two I was working on um hash cash doing civil protection I was doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=257s"},{"start_seconds":265,"text":"distributed systems and just doing Security in in this space and it was just Absol absolutely an academic Pursuit and it's kind of absolutely fascinating to Think Through reading a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=265s"},{"start_seconds":274,"text":"paper reading practical bantine full tolerance by Miguel K through or reading paos or reading some of the salal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=274s"},{"start_seconds":281,"text":"Byzantine General papers or all of these in just 15 years ago 17 years ago they were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=281s"},{"start_seconds":288,"text":"just ideas pretty much intellectual discussions between PhD students and professors in universities trying to get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=288s"},{"start_seconds":295,"text":"P published in conferences that nobody has ever heard of uh well now they probably have because all the VCS are just trolling the pages of all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=295s"},{"start_seconds":304,"text":"Publishers of all these conferences in both Ai and uh and crypto conferences but you know eurocrypt how many people had heard about eurocrypt um DSN how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=304s"},{"start_seconds":313,"text":"many people had heard about DSN nobody cared about these conferences and they were the conferences of distributed systems so I was just lucky enough to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=313s"},{"start_seconds":320,"text":"had been interested from security from a very early age um and security really was my passion well when I was 12 or or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=320s"},{"start_seconds":327,"text":"13 hacking into my friends computers my passion but that's what led to the passion of security of course eventually and that's what got me on that path is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=327s"},{"start_seconds":336,"text":"kind of fascinating you can describe Anchorage as many different things sure we're a crypto company yeah you can describe us as a crypto company but you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=336s"},{"start_seconds":343,"text":"can also easily describe us as a security infrastructure company you can also easily describe us as a bank I personally like to describe us as a tech","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=343s"},{"start_seconds":351,"text":"company that owns a bank not as a bank that does deck because those two things are very different as you as you might expect um even though we do have enough compliance people to call ourselves a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=351s"},{"start_seconds":359,"text":"real Bank um so you know you have that uh as as a stat for you um I'm sorry for that no it's it's it's necessary and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=359s"},{"start_seconds":368,"text":"it's actually fascinating one one of the things that I found the most fascinating has been well there's many things here but I I'm both an American citizen because I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=368s"},{"start_seconds":376,"text":"was born in the US but I'm actually Portuguese too uh I grew up in Portugal so and I just moved back to Lisbon about six weeks ago so you know my life is is back and forth but but when things get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=376s"},{"start_seconds":385,"text":"hard in Portugal I say I'm American and when get get cheated in the US I say I'm Portuguese so I'm always like switching hats and like using different shirts to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=385s"},{"start_seconds":392,"text":"to claim that both countries are amazing every time in the US somebody complains about IDs and like how the system is bureaucratic and you need papers I talk about our citizens card and digital","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=392s"},{"start_seconds":401,"text":"signatures and then people there talk about like starting a company and then um or people here start talk about starting a company and I complain about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=401s"},{"start_seconds":409,"text":"the bureaucracy and I complain about all the you know things that Portuguese people just force you to do to do anything um anyway it's it's it's pretty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=409s"},{"start_seconds":416,"text":"funny but one of the things that has been the most fascinating for me as an American citizen has been interacting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=416s"},{"start_seconds":423,"text":"with not just The Regulators but the the government apparatus going to the White House meeting Senators seeing how the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=423s"},{"start_seconds":430,"text":"sausage gets made is kind of scary um seeing the lobbying participating in the lobbying getting lobbyists actually being part of the system and seeing how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=430s"},{"start_seconds":439,"text":"things actually evolve is is is kind of scary concerning and as a citizen is just just look at it and it's like okay I thought this was a rumor uh I thought","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=439s"},{"start_seconds":448,"text":"the way the way thing work the things actually work just more process to the chaos but yeah yeah and or or something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=448s"},{"start_seconds":455,"text":"that people people described as a conspiracy theory that this is actually how things were and then you get there and there oh no it uh it actually works","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=455s"},{"start_seconds":463,"text":"this way okay cool so now you're in lisban that's pretty much your conclusion of that after you interacted with all the US government well yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=463s"},{"start_seconds":471,"text":"there are downsides on both sides um but but but the story of Anchorage also is um is kind of interesting because it was started in San Francisco and my Liv","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=471s"},{"start_seconds":479,"text":"living room and pre- pandemic we were actually 70 something people and then we wake up in a world post pandemic and the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=479s"},{"start_seconds":486,"text":"West Coast which was San Francisco specifically was 95% of Anchorage employees not Bay Area San Francisco was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=486s"},{"start_seconds":494,"text":"95% of Anchorage employees and we've never really been Pro remote um I've always thought that I wasn't a good enough manager to really hire and manage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=494s"},{"start_seconds":501,"text":"a remote team so you know we had this founder philosophy that just remote was not something we were interested in and at the time we we were able to implement it because it was prepandemic the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=501s"},{"start_seconds":510,"text":"pandemic hits and all of a sudden what happens is what happened to all of you but we wake up in a world where we had over 300 people and the large majority","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=510s"},{"start_seconds":518,"text":"of them were not not just San Francisco not Bay Area at all so we go from 95% San Francisco to less than 20% Bay Area","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=518s"},{"start_seconds":526,"text":"and Portugal actually now has almost half of our engineering so we have almost 100 people in Portugal and so obviously I have Affinity to the country","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=526s"},{"start_seconds":533,"text":"I I studied in these universities this is where I did my my bachelors my masters my PhD I had the connectivity I had had the teachers I knew I could actually get there's not that many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=533s"},{"start_seconds":542,"text":"Portuguese unicorns who can get the marketing going to hire good good engineers and good people and we did that successfully and so we ended up with almost 100 people in Portugal which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=542s"},{"start_seconds":550,"text":"then brings me back to Portugal because obviously the time zone it's not like everybody's in the US and I'm here um and and I think you've done similar things right you found pockets of talent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=550s"},{"start_seconds":559,"text":"yeah I mean we we went from I don't know we had 20 something people and one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=559s"},{"start_seconds":565,"text":"actually uh Jake here uh was remote and then we went yeah like everybody remote kind of growing and then also separating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=565s"},{"start_seconds":574,"text":"and decentralizing and becoming more and more of a collective that's Global that has people everywhere that has hubs everywhere and yeah and now it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=574s"},{"start_seconds":583,"text":"actually this time zone indeed is kind of the middle ground between Asia and America and you can actually cover it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=583s"},{"start_seconds":590,"text":"very well and so yeah I think that that has been also like an interesting question yeah like if you are in Asia or in us like you actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=590s"},{"start_seconds":598,"text":"are kind of missing out on part of this and versus here you have like a wide range as well so I'm actually curious","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=598s"},{"start_seconds":605,"text":"because we we we sell to institutions so our clients are Visa Sovereign wealth funds big Banks every single Venture","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=605s"},{"start_seconds":613,"text":"fund you've ever heard of is a client so we have tens of billions of dollars on the platform and we do staking custody buy and sell that those are our services","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=613s"},{"start_seconds":621,"text":"those are our clients we do not touch retail we do not touch retail we don't do retail we don't want to do retail so we we don't we don't touch it um and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=621s"},{"start_seconds":629,"text":"that's you know part of the secret of actually having a bank that is a bank is because we were institutional only and so that helps because from a regulatory perspective the target is not on you uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=629s"},{"start_seconds":638,"text":"there's no poor retail ever being hurt because we just don't serve them and the institutions are sophisticated so if they do something wrong and invest in the bad asset and they lose all their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=638s"},{"start_seconds":646,"text":"funds nobody's going to be sad about you know some poor institution that invested their money um still made fees but but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=646s"},{"start_seconds":654,"text":"lost their funds so it's it's a very different thing but but for foundations I've always kept myself credibly neutral from an asset perspective so this is actually the first uh Foundation that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=654s"},{"start_seconds":661,"text":"I'm joining um and and at this point we're big enough for me not to be close to the decision- making on asset support for this to actually be something that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=661s"},{"start_seconds":668,"text":"can do uh credibly but I've always wondered whether for protocols and for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=668s"},{"start_seconds":676,"text":"foundations it is an advantage to actually be remote and distributed because the community building is such a big portion of it that being in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=676s"},{"start_seconds":683,"text":"pockets and actually being close that is must be a massive Advantage versus I don't know visaa protocol that is just like 95% San","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=683s"},{"start_seconds":691,"text":"Francisco is that is that the case yeah I think it's the case and it's also part it's part of philosophy and it's part of how you build a team it's part of people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=691s"},{"start_seconds":699,"text":"also want to meet somebody who works kind of in a core team or in a close to core team and H having people everywhere","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=699s"},{"start_seconds":706,"text":"that are core people allows to also have this interactions more often and then I think like we've seen this for kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=706s"},{"start_seconds":715,"text":"more local blockchain that kind of launched for a specific country um like that really hard for them to break out of that mode right because it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=715s"},{"start_seconds":724,"text":"becomes kind of unfulfilling and blockchains are at the core Global phenomena it's at the core a place to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=724s"},{"start_seconds":731,"text":"unite everyone to build this you know composable platforms bring everybody together create open markets that are Global in first place and so whenever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=731s"},{"start_seconds":739,"text":"you target something local either by the team location or by kind of just your marketing and and Market positioning you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=739s"},{"start_seconds":747,"text":"are kind of actually you know Crossing yourself out from this whole Global phenomena that blockchain is and I think that is really important","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=747s"},{"start_seconds":756,"text":"piece and uh you know at the same like the philosophy of you know open web the one we are really uh kind of pushing for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=756s"},{"start_seconds":764,"text":"is really around you know allowing everyone in allowing kind of people to participate to contribute doesn't matter","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=764s"},{"start_seconds":771,"text":"where you are doesn't matter I I love to say you know if you're an account on chain it doesn't matter if you're a cat right um like you could be participating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=771s"},{"start_seconds":779,"text":"in exactly the same terms and so uh like I think like opening that up is important and geography then doesn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=779s"},{"start_seconds":788,"text":"matter time zones do sadly that's a probably I wish there was no time zones and we can all live in the same time and maybe we can start by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=788s"},{"start_seconds":797,"text":"getting rid of daylight savings uh that would be slow progress yeah ah now there there you go this is my uh beginning of my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=797s"},{"start_seconds":806,"text":"political campaign here for prime minister Portugal for I think or or you directly actually I have a I have another question for you sorry I know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=806s"},{"start_seconds":813,"text":"you were supposed to be interviewing me but um we had dinner last night and I had this one I've been I've been this is a spicy take and I've been thinking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=813s"},{"start_seconds":820,"text":"about this uh for a while and I just love your opinion and since we're chatting with a great group of people matters all I think through this uh but this is a spicy take so so so take me uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=820s"},{"start_seconds":828,"text":"take take me here U for for a minute give me a break here but I have this idea that one of the reasons why lots of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=828s"},{"start_seconds":836,"text":"protocols have failed in our space in why we've had maybe not enough engagement from both community and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=836s"},{"start_seconds":844,"text":"Founders has been because the for a space that believes deeply in incentive alignment we've always built these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=844s"},{"start_seconds":851,"text":"protocols with massive misalignment of incentives for the founder specifically and what I mean by that is I think this space will not work as successful as it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=851s"},{"start_seconds":861,"text":"could until New protocols that are created that are based on any kind of token or any kind of incentive have token lockups","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=861s"},{"start_seconds":869,"text":"investing that is actually equal or similar to any other founder that is creating a company and raising Equity if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=869s"},{"start_seconds":877,"text":"I'm a Founder raising dollars we've raised almost $500 $500 million $500 would be also pretty impressive 500","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=877s"},{"start_seconds":884,"text":"million dollars and there's no liquidity there's no liquidity for 7 to 10 years that's the average for an equity company the founders stay the workers stay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=884s"},{"start_seconds":892,"text":"everybody stays so how is it possible to really build a fundamentally successful protocol if you get liquidity on year","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=892s"},{"start_seconds":900,"text":"one or year two or year three it's not just that the founders lose interest necessarily is that they're not really incentivized to stay and a lot of people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=900s"},{"start_seconds":908,"text":"I've seen you know became fa fabulously wealthy and then you also have the negative component that I actually saw Square post IPO go through which is once","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=908s"},{"start_seconds":916,"text":"the stock and your price and your net worth is public you're looking at it every day and your loss aversion means that days that is up you don't feel anything you feel normal but days that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=916s"},{"start_seconds":924,"text":"it's down you feel really bad um and so Dad lost a version of like feeling two loss 2x then the gains actually is like very corrosive and in crypto this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=924s"},{"start_seconds":932,"text":"happens but I I legitimately think until token Founders specifically but also employees have a investing schedule that is actually closer to an equity in terms","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=932s"},{"start_seconds":940,"text":"of timeline say seven years I I don't think we're going to get passed through the really really hard stuff of product building and like go to market I would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=940s"},{"start_seconds":948,"text":"love your hear opinion on this yeah I think there's a lot of Truth around that the the kind of fast liquidity is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=948s"},{"start_seconds":956,"text":"corrosive not just for the team but also for the backers who participate because it's also like now they looking at it as well and like now they're like now it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=956s"},{"start_seconds":965,"text":"a trade for them not just backing and kind of you know building for the future so I think this has been a probably a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=965s"},{"start_seconds":971,"text":"big negative side of the space we actually uh for for our team uh kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=971s"},{"start_seconds":979,"text":"everyone have set up first of all the lockup started at mainnet so there was motivation for everyone to to actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=979s"},{"start_seconds":987,"text":"launch main net uh so even though like the kind of the the normal vesting right like employee vesting but um or contributor vesting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=987s"},{"start_seconds":996,"text":"but the lockup started from this and then uh and then it was pretty much four year from mainnet so it actually didn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=996s"},{"start_seconds":1003,"text":"end yet uh and it was like kind of align with like the longest backers as well so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1003s"},{"start_seconds":1011,"text":"um and so I definitely like we've been trying to maximize that pretty much as much as possible I do think that like for projects that are launched in now if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1011s"},{"start_seconds":1020,"text":"they have an ability to do that and kind of uh I think the problem is and like I think this is General problem with crypto has been is that like because of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1020s"},{"start_seconds":1029,"text":"the market dynamics it's the same as like in 21 there was like people were shooting money from the guns right like instead of t-shirt it was like you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1029s"},{"start_seconds":1038,"text":"500k Grand in Portugal I think we call it the Bazooka yeah uh and so like that kind of created this whole slice of you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1038s"},{"start_seconds":1046,"text":"know people who believe this is normal right and so the same with like crypto incentives and like crypto vs as well there's a whole slice of people who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1046s"},{"start_seconds":1054,"text":"think this is normal like the the only thing that is like worth investing is in the token that will that will be liquid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1054s"},{"start_seconds":1063,"text":"for them in you know a year like they actually put Provisions into the in like some of the uh contract so I think the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1063s"},{"start_seconds":1071,"text":"the challenge right now is like we kind of need to change the market dynamics in general such that Founders are able to like create the equal opport opportunity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1071s"},{"start_seconds":1078,"text":"for both them and backers to have kind of a more aligned like building out a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1078s"},{"start_seconds":1084,"text":"real future uh value and I think like like I'm not sure how we can actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1084s"},{"start_seconds":1092,"text":"get there at at the current stage right I think that's that's really the challenges like the market adjustments is happening I think like the valuation adjusting but that structures are still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1092s"},{"start_seconds":1101,"text":"uh more shortterm than they should be but in general I totally agree I think the biggest kind of the core team","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1101s"},{"start_seconds":1109,"text":"continued pushing together continue working is the most important and you know we have like some people who transition out but a lot of people are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1109s"},{"start_seconds":1117,"text":"still in the ecosystem working across different hubs and that's I think one of the benefits is compared to a company when somebody transitions off they go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1117s"},{"start_seconds":1124,"text":"and you know do something else and the ecosystem there's a lot of things to do and you can actually go and do something in the ecosystem continue growing it in a different capacity right maybe you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1124s"},{"start_seconds":1133,"text":"don't like the role you were in you maybe want to try something else so you have this opportunity to continue grow join the ecosystem but not maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1133s"},{"start_seconds":1140,"text":"indirectly like the employee relationship that you started with and I think that is being actually beneficial for contining growing in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1140s"},{"start_seconds":1150,"text":"ecosystem okay that's interesting well at least for any companies that we fund we can always think about things like that and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1150s"},{"start_seconds":1157,"text":"aligning the incentives yeah I think yeah I mean as we work with Founders and I'm really excited kind of within this context you know working with Founders","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1157s"},{"start_seconds":1164,"text":"helping them set up a structure that maximize kind of the their success you know in building their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1164s"},{"start_seconds":1171,"text":"Vision right at the end like that's kind of that's why you start like if you if you're for financial outcome there better you know for many of the smart","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1171s"},{"start_seconds":1180,"text":"Founders there's better ways to have a short-term Financial outcome including investment actually uh for for time uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1180s"},{"start_seconds":1188,"text":"spent on building this for sweats build on building this and so like you know you're starting the company because you want to bring this Vision together and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1188s"},{"start_seconds":1196,"text":"so I think like structure it in such a way where you as a Founder are able to continue pushing forward there's I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1196s"},{"start_seconds":1204,"text":"there's ways to like the benefit is the tokens is just information and the the market is just another piece of information right and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1204s"},{"start_seconds":1211,"text":"so you can structure the token in a way that can be you know useful for your you know incentive structures for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1211s"},{"start_seconds":1218,"text":"decentralizing the ecosystem for unborn new people while the incentive part for the team Etc can be structured as well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1218s"},{"start_seconds":1226,"text":"like like I mean it's just code right you can write the code that that's a benefit compared to equity Equity is like it's kind of predefined right and it has a like yes I mean you actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1226s"},{"start_seconds":1235,"text":"can you know sit down with lawyers and write 500 pages of documents but then you need to also execute it it's like super complicated explain to everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1235s"},{"start_seconds":1243,"text":"here you can just write a smart contract that exactly outlines the motivations that you want right you can maximize for example unlock based on kpis right it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1243s"},{"start_seconds":1252,"text":"can be that you know that we actually align the whole ecosystem to achieve some specific goal and now it's actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1252s"},{"start_seconds":1259,"text":"a kind of positive SU game for everyone to push toward that right and in a way that's what kind of Bitcoin started with like it says you know everybody's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1259s"},{"start_seconds":1267,"text":"incentivized to continue building this chain it's just like that was a very simple kpi let's build the longest chain and hopefully it's going to be useful but you can have a lot more complex","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1267s"},{"start_seconds":1275,"text":"things now we have oracles that can provide you with information you can have an AI Oracle that actually analyzing potentially information about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1275s"},{"start_seconds":1283,"text":"the projects that you're building that's providing this context back into your token to lock or provide you know additional emissions based on that right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1283s"},{"start_seconds":1291,"text":"so like you can design things that are kind of more novel and I think that is that the benefit of this technology that we have is like we have such a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1291s"},{"start_seconds":1300,"text":"programmability that we never had before I I I saw a lot of the companies in the ecosystem that I've been kinding meeting a lot of these CEOs and these Founders","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1300s"},{"start_seconds":1307,"text":"and something that has uh struck me as interesting that I haven't seen yet is I've seen a lot of applications of zero knowledge proofs within our own space so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1307s"},{"start_seconds":1315,"text":"you know on the rollups and trying to make things more efficient and effective which makes a ton of sense uh because we want lower fees we want higher","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1315s"},{"start_seconds":1322,"text":"throughput we want just better ways and just stronger Primitives to to achieve things that we couldn't before I haven't actually seen great zero knowledge proof","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1322s"},{"start_seconds":1331,"text":"applications that are Bitcoin Bitcoin based um for things that I would have thought are obvious and are kind of needed I don't know um there's a cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1331s"},{"start_seconds":1340,"text":"paper by Bonet um which um you you take a picture now that the Sony cameras actually have yeah a cryptographic key","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1340s"},{"start_seconds":1348,"text":"they have a cryptographic key and then they sign every picture that comes from a camera so you know if a picture actually comes from a war zone or if it was generated by Dolly you have no idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1348s"},{"start_seconds":1357,"text":"um and so it actually signs the picture but then the problem is you're a media outlet and you either put the full picture you know 50 whatever megabytes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1357s"},{"start_seconds":1366,"text":"of picture because that's the original picture that got they got signed was the raw format of the picture and so how can we crop it how can we reduce it in size","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1366s"},{"start_seconds":1375,"text":"and so there's these cool um ways to prove in zero knowledge that a subset of a picture or a sub verion of the picture","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1375s"},{"start_seconds":1382,"text":"actually sign up to the original picture that came from the camera so cool utility like that that we can actually know if pictures coming from um from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1382s"},{"start_seconds":1390,"text":"Gaza are actually from Gaza or from Israel are actually from Israel like we don't know what the source of these things are and it's very important for us to have great information and so that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1390s"},{"start_seconds":1398,"text":"that's an interesting use case in application and then obviously like the use of something like near in which is very cheap for me to actually do these commitments and have somebody like Sony","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1398s"},{"start_seconds":1406,"text":"or Nikon or whatever particip seems like a very obvious use case why have I have I not seen not this specific use case because I'm likely missing something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1406s"},{"start_seconds":1413,"text":"trivial that does make it work but just zero knowledge use cases that are just obviously like great for Humanity and Society kind of like implemented right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1413s"},{"start_seconds":1421,"text":"now I think I mean the reality is like this technology just started to scale to something that's like reasonably like powerful right like imagine I mean what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1421s"},{"start_seconds":1430,"text":"you just described the use case of um convered 50 megabyte image down to let's say I don't know 300 kiloby right and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1430s"},{"start_seconds":1438,"text":"usually it's done by you know set of filters and maybe potentially some like neuron Network as well now and 50 megabytes is actually a lot of data that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1438s"},{"start_seconds":1448,"text":"the current zero knowledge circuits probably cannot handle right and especially the zero knowledge circuits of last year could not handle at all so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1448s"},{"start_seconds":1455,"text":"we actually just get into a stage where it's possible to start pushing this much data or this much compute right so for example for zkl I think this's heon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1455s"},{"start_seconds":1464,"text":"project actually going to present an example of that like KL right now the limitation is on how much like you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1464s"},{"start_seconds":1471,"text":"usually all the ne networks have layers and so like every layer you can prove it individually and then compress all the proofs of each layer so it doesn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1471s"},{"start_seconds":1479,"text":"matter how many layers it has but the amount of parameters each layer outputs right The Matrix that outputs you need to prove that and you need to commit on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1479s"},{"start_seconds":1487,"text":"that and that that is actually expensive and so right now I think it's like 10 million parameters is the max we can have right which is 10 megabyte or like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1487s"},{"start_seconds":1495,"text":"um kind of 40 megabytes for example right so like we just getting to that stage where this is the size that's possible but I think this use case is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1495s"},{"start_seconds":1503,"text":"extremely important and also like it wasn't really well understood that we need this prior to some of the recent events and like kind of just more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1503s"},{"start_seconds":1511,"text":"generative AI Resurgence I think that is kind of in general a Content um tracking content understanding reputation of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1511s"},{"start_seconds":1520,"text":"entity's publishing will become extremely important and having like this supply chain of data and zero knowledge proofs with it will become extremely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1520s"},{"start_seconds":1528,"text":"important uh component of that but like more of this use case will be coming as this technology scales and like like not just scales but also becomes more effic","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1528s"},{"start_seconds":1537,"text":"effective and efficient there's Hardware accelerators that are also been built so like I think we just getting to see it coming but it's like it was not like I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1537s"},{"start_seconds":1546,"text":"mentioned with Jordy like in 19 we actually ban word zero knowledge because it didn't like you could use it for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1546s"},{"start_seconds":1554,"text":"everything but it didn't work right and so now it's actually like we investing in it you know partnering across the ecosystem and I think we'll see a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1554s"},{"start_seconds":1562,"text":"more exciting stuff for this awesome well if somebody wants to build a company like that I know somebody at Sony so I don't know there might be some funding for you yeah I think we just ran","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1562s"},{"start_seconds":1570,"text":"out of time indeed we did all right well thank you hopefully you met uh uh Dogo and uh yeah exciting to be here thank","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1570s"},{"start_seconds":1578,"text":"you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1578s"},{"start_seconds":1583,"text":"Dogo","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ&t=1583s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=u7AutZcIWPQ","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/u7AutZcIWPQ"}