{"id":"tDeb0LACCag","title":"Sharding Jam","description":"Sharding Jam with Alex Skidanov, Co-founder of @NearProtocol, Dean Eigenmann and Ryan Zurrer.\n\n----\nFollow the latest from NEAR Protocol on, \n\nWebsite: https://nearprotocol.com/\nDiscord: https://near.ai/discord\nMedium: https://near.ai/medium\nTwitter: https://near.ai/twitter\nGitHub: https://near.ai/github","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2020-01-14T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/tDeb0LACCag/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"cool okay so I can walk through nitrate sure with Dean any specific questions you wanna you want to tackle right off the top the two that I'm that come to mind for me are with respect to to like reversion of a transaction when you have cross shard communication and then just sort of like fundamental security assumption differences verses they do yeah I think the easiest one to run at the beginning is what's the difference between near charting and the ease - mm-hmm yep okay so I will just quickly walk to nitrate and then and then we'll go from there so in nightshade I will assume that neither of you know nitrate very deeply so I will go into into detail right so instead of having a lot of short chains instead we have instead are there's only one block chain and so it builds blocks the way blocks are built are also interesting but I guess it's underrated to sharding some propagation and and finality is somewhat similar to polka dots relay chain correct ah the only thing that the similar to polka look is data availability which is practically taken from polka dot one to one so every block logically contains all the transactions and all the shirts so every block will contain some sort of header which contains a global state route global transaction route across those charts and then logically it contains all the transactions in all the shards but physically it contains what we call chunks one per shorts if these four shards the block would contain chain for short one for sure 2 3 etc some of them may be missing right you're the blood producer didn't give the chunk in time the chunk will be missing so for every shard the block will contain 1 or 0 chunks now and then the next block will contain again junk for the first shirt for the second for third etc what you have managed to collect in time what what what what are chunks so chance is what the in eighth two would be the short block right to chunk okay chan salute the entire short block you include the header hood right so the block the block effectively contains the block header and chunk header paid for every chunk now what happens is these are everybody produces block size if you have a set of block producers that they have 200 they will all be taking turns producing blocks but they will be splitting into shards and every shot will have a few of them like let's say every shot has ten or like 20 block producers and so the blood producers are out of the whole population of 200 so this is 200 people let's say right so these 200 total the first twin it could be working on some shorts the next 20 work on some sharks the next when you work on some charge etcetera they don't have each of them doesn't have to have one short in your allocate most of them will have several shorts but but none of them works in all the shirts and or rather it none of them works on a large on something that is on the order of magnitude of number of charts right so these if there's a charts probably everybody will be working on one or two of these hundred charts everybody will be working like on five on five right and so among those twinny they have a schedule of producing chunks right so there's going to be a fixed schedule of length 20 right so every every 20 blocks it will it will repeat alright and so for example if this was quite seven and this was right 8 then for height 7 for every chunk there was a particular blood producer who was assigned to produce chunk and the moment they received the previous block and the moment they managed to fetch the chunk for their short let's say let's consider the particular person who is responsible for producing chunk for short one at this height I wonder issued the previous look at right well hopefully it was head 6 didn't have to be the chief check for height 1 the moment they issued the book they will try to fetch the chunk and in a second I will say I will tell how we make it very likely that they will be able to the moment they face the chunk for for for their chart they apply it they get the new State Road they get transaction from that transaction pool and they create a new chunk okay which they immediately sent to the blood producer of 4/7 how many times are valid in charge shuffled like once every half a day let's see okay right because in the theory and these two it's like every six minutes I think right right so we will get back to those differences I guess for first-time ones it looked like data availability in overall structure and then start comparing why why they can and we cannot sample every six minutes and and how that affects like adaptive corruption and what we do to prevent it so one thing is that in this in this design I just talked about one big problem is that chunks might not be available right so this person who created the chunk I they are malicious they can create a chunk like naturally the block producer cannot download all the chunks that will effectively mean they have to download all the transactions for all the shirts so that completely eliminates well not completely but it eliminates most of the benefits of shorting obviously the blood producer can only see the headers and maybe a little bit not the information so if this blood producer champ register was malicious then they would send enough information to the blood producer to include chunk one but not enough information to the to the rest of the network for the chunk to be recoverable right and so the next channel producer when the book 7 is produced they will not be able to to fetch the chunk so they will not be able to create the next one that would be pretty bad so the way we do that is when the chunk producer produces the chunk they like let's say this is the chunk they they split it into small parts and the eraser coded and they sent and so each of the shares of the eraser coded chunk has a particular blood producer who is known like everybody can everybody can easily locally compute who is the block producer who's dedicated to each of those parts and so of those shares and each share is sent to that particular blood producer right and so for as long as so let's say let's say we do like I don't know the correct terminology but let's say the number of data data shares is like K and the number of parity shares is let's say 2 K right so for as long as one third of those blood producers who were who receive the parts the shares are online and and behaving properly everybody will be able to reconstruct the the chunk and so for now for this in practice we use two K parity shards but for theoretical analysis let's use five key fine kick has better guarantees so now what happens when the block is produced is every other block producer will only accept this block in one of the two cases case number one is that they follow the shard and there they were able to fully reconstruct the chunk in case number two is they do not follow the shirt and they and they had their part the part that was sent to them specifically right most of them do not follow the short right but therefore let's say let's say that the we assume that 30% so for specifically for data availability wasting the 30% of at most 30 percent are means behaving and 70 percent are good and honest then give 30% are not sending their parts that were sent to them because we have because wandering in one sixth right because number of data shares is one sixth of the total then I if a bloke has 50% of people who say we were able to accept the block if 50% of all produce to accept the block that means that even 30 of them are lying that they have their part one six them is still saying truth and so every chunk is reproducible is recoverable that makes sense yeah yeah yeah cool and they still a problem well they're going to be mini small problems on the way up or all of them we have some satisfactory solution so a couple o couple that already happen here one is that for a check with you it's very easy to grieve the blog producer in the sense that they can send them a chunk but not send it to anyone else right so so yeah nobody will recover the check and people will ignore the blog but block was like the blood producer lost the reward the entire system missed a heartbeat because the block was not included ultimately all right so that's pretty bad the way we fight with that is the blood producer after producing the block will try to sample couple parts for every jump and for the chives for them for which they fail to do that they will never accept the chunks from that young producer so the joint producer will be able to give once but that's acceptable I mean they they never be able to produce any chunk with that particular blood producer again and now the problem is that someone can theoretically invite the next block that chunk producer could produce the could produce that chunk and send it to the block producer along with previous chunk and then but the previous one and essentially attack the the first block producer and give advantage to the second block producer so advantage doesn't matter much the way the way we produced walks it's called dune slug it doesn't it doesn't give much opportunities for two neighboring work producers to give each other so two neighboring both producers cannot do much to give each other all right whether or not they have some advantage now if we Chum produces sands and that information to the next block producers to fully reconstruct the chunk in the previous block and that nice black producer has the chance so everybody will be able ultimately to collect sufficient number of parts or shares from that low producer so in fact the chunk is available what the BLA producer Chum producer can try to do is they can try to give the first work producer successfully right as I said this is it they will be successfully able to give once every block producer so they can use they can give once this once this will produce for once this book producer wants nice book etc and so effective they can stole the system for a while now the way we prevent that is that when the first look is produced when the second blow producer sees the first look if they not able to recover some chunks quickly they will until they recover a particular chunk they will not accept anything from the chunk from that time producer Francesc and producer give the first blood producer the second until they're able to fetch the chunk they will not be accepting chance from the chunk produced and so they will not be grieved if they can throw multiple temperatures for business to be able certainly then stop the propagation of those chunks because the chunk produced 2,000 produce chunks in the same shot multiple times right so on the next video is going to be a different time producing chunk one so that will be accepted now the jump producer will will make two to be skipped on this height three to be stitched on the next head that's unfortunate but unless you have a situation whereby the original chunk producer has been randomly selected to produce yes yes it would happen periodically but probably not yeah that well in practice in practice most of the chunk producers are going to be honest right it does it doesn't happen often that someone intentionally tries to give but the goal is to prove rig so sort of reduce as much as possible what the bad actor can do without especially without being punished because in this case the chyme producer don't the punishment they get is that the missing reward in the future because they will be kicked out I mean they wouldn't necessarily then be slashed if they so we do not flash for anything that is not cryptographically probable you cannot prove that data was not available you can only prove data availability so so there were also different raw material there is no slashing for leaking or like whatever it's called and so the only thing they lose really is that they get kicked out eventually because their chunks are not included if you did not produce enough chunks doing ve but you get kicked out from the validator set so that's done differently they really recently in this case cool another thing validator set that will take them a while and and also everybody already banned them so when they reenter still nobody will get set from there their chunks but that would not also happen when there just isn't a availability from the given chunk and then that and then that chunk producer will get kicked out but then not due to their own fault city young so if it so there's two instances right one is that a chunk producer doesn't have the necessary data to compose the drink and propose it to the block producer the second is that the chunk producers malicious and has intentionally withheld the chunk but but but it's a different thing when you did not if you don't have enough data to produce your chunk that means that the previous check was not available to begin with right so the previous parties can slash or so for data availability we never slash but what will happen in the rants case so what ryan says is that imagine that chunk one here for some reason is not available right and for the chunk producer in this in for this for this height they cannot retrieve the chunk they cannot produce the block but in reality what will happen is that until they achieve the chunk they will not even accept this block so for for from perspective of the chunk producer for this spot this law doesn't exist yet if the given you can strike the chunk from their perspective the head right now is still is still the vlog here yeah and they will be building on top of that which drive which then implies that the block production moves is slow is the slowest Chum production right is the subsequent block isn't accepted until well at the end of the day this is sort of making about the consensus right so if this tank is available this time producer would have achieved it so this chunk is not available so ultimately this block will be completely rejected by the system right because not gonna be 50% of people know that so that will be the other chunks right yeah but whichever transactions are included here ultimately will will be because then that block will get reverted so that ends up being what I'm what I want to ask about with where as the information or like transactions and messages and these chunks are then negatively impacted by this single chunk producer limiting or or hiding right there but that but that can happen like the number of times they can do this negative impact is limited because if they did it once nobody will again except their chunks sure but they correct it so wonderful right and just change addresses and then reenter ah that that's per account right because they have stake so that's per account they will need they will that'll take the multiple days to reenter again because they need to move money sure yes they need to just take it but right so stack those on top of each other right you can Sybil it and have like multiple accounts and then just be passing there yes so so so the question is how many of the 200 they control right so if these 200 book producers what percentage of them they control that that's how much they can give but also how much they get that because they're losing quite a bit of money by being checked out not getting the award for that epoch the amount of damage that is my claim is a bit little swivel into inflation over that yes but but they but the only making the system skip one heartbeat right because if the book is produced every couple seconds yeah they they made the system skipped one block right by by doing that that's painful but books can be skipped or even like under normal circumstances because the propagation was too slow all right so that's blocks will be skipped oh oh all the time that's sort of expected right yeah but let me also cover another so as I said there are many small things that can happen right so I will just give example of another small thing from perspective of a particular chunk producer right as I said they will not accept a block until they see what one share of every chunk not accepting the block can be damaging for them because then you not accept the block they produce to choke on top of the previous one but the block ultimately was accepted by the system and so their chunk was discarded because it's not building on the on the on the head of the chain so that damages them so for them it's actually beneficial to say well yeah I sort of have to wait for all day for all the shares but I will note I will I will accept the block optimistically if I have like most of them or whatever so to prevent against that what we do is that when we do a razor code we instead of like for example having 200 of those we have in 199 shares and one share the to hundreds one is what we call a honeypot and so if you receive a honeypot you have to report it and if you sign on the block and you're not you're porking that you have the honeypot and you had one that's a slash whole behavior you get your entire stake slashed so every time you blindly sign on the block without having a particular share you have a probability one over 200 or get of your entire stake / that's not something that any any sane person would do alright so therefore people have a very strong incentive to to actually truly wait for the for the shares before signing on the book right so this entire data availability scheme is pocket of data we do it I don't even have the honeypot idea probably they do but but but but the idea of of sending one share to every work producer in the system that's not spoken that that is not something we invented cool so that being said so then let's let's chat a little bit about cross shard transmissions yeah so when you have and like obviously each shard shares consensus so you don't have you shouldn't yeah Theory have say substantial time lag between transaction confirmation between shards so what happens so this is where it gets very interesting because there are sort of two ways in which you can model how how transactions are processed right and block change in one in one model when you produce a chunk you already execute all the transactions right so so you're the champ that's raised this you're a chunk producer you you collect the transactions from the pool you include them you apply them and so the chunk already contains the statehood as of after applying the transactions so this model has a drawback which if you if you draw the timeline right so let's say that at this point the child for height 7 was produced the the blow producer who produced it had to apply the transaction right so this is a this is the time it took them to apply the transactions then they send it to the to the child producer for height 8 the jam producer for height 8 when they receive it they first have to apply transactions in 7 they couldn't have been doing it in parallel with the producer of 7 after they applied 7 they so they applying 7 here then they need to apply for it because they producing it they need to apply it and then they produce it right so then they sending it to the mind man first need to pre-applied for a then the plate tonight right so so effectively we have for every type we see really apply twice the transactions that make sense so it's like effectively application of transactions for height age by the chunk producer happens Stickley before that application happens where everybody else and so therefore for like 400 heights we will have serially 200 transaction applications which is which can be which assuming the transactions are playing like that's one of the bottlenecks assuming this is not a negligible time that's pretty bad and so a pretty common way of addressing it is having not the post state route in the blog but are the pre state route right so what happens is that the the blog producer for the jump register for seven in the chunk in the seven includes the priests state route so as of after applying six and the transactions for seven and then when they produced it they them self start applying seven and everybody else also in parallel with them start applying seven right so so that is not zero anymore this is parallel right and so the blog producer for it can produce a jump reduce afraid produces checks includes the priest a 2005 to applying seven and then they start applying eight after they send the block and everybody else applies it after day I'm sorry chunk after they receive it so that shortens to add the amount of processing time spent serially but now it has a big problem with the sharding be aware the time I produced chunk the chunk I did not apply transactions that means I also don't have these seeds that I need to send to all the shards yeah right so therefore what will happen if you do it my evilly is that I create seven I said four I'm so like now yeah so let's say everything above the the axis is for short one everything below is for short - right so now I create the block for heads at time for head seven then someone who creates the chart the time for height eight they will apply transactions only now they will get the receipts they will send them out and so only a height nine naively would what the second short be able to apply them right also the difference in height is two that is very much so so here we have two unless we come up with something smart we would either have to use the first approach where we include post stage with them and so the transaction plication happens twice yearly or we will have to have two heights difference between receiving use it and applying receive so what we do is is a little more motion just increase the number of transaction validators consolidating transactions into eight and and then the the block producer can can potentially select from from a wider range of like chunk producers like why would you just sort of increase the parallelization of of potential options here in in the production of cells but that doesn't help right because it is still the case that by the time seven is produced the receipts are not known yet sure right so you need to wait for it to know that you see if you get good to get eight you need seven fully produced and applied a sure and then all the transactions inherent in in eight essentially know you don't care yet all the transactions which will get to eight they will not affect the disease as of after applying seven for blocking per block per block so here we only care about the specifically what we care about is how quickly a receipt so thirty receipt is the second part of it so like if it is a cross our transaction it applies on one chart and the receipt for another short and that receipt is affected transaction that will be applied in in in a second chart right so the question is how quickly we can we can we can have the receipt delivered and include it somewhere in the second chart but that was produced by a transaction the first sure but that receipt needs to be validated by a different party than the per the producing party that ah so all right no so effectively if the chunk is imposed on the block the junkies it's not to be valid that is obviously incorrect assumption we will talk about that in a second but that but if the shank is included in the block we always assume it's valid we never wait for anything if chanc is included it's belt right because if it is invalid that block will be full and rolled so from perspective of the block that builds on top of it so like let's say block seven has one of the junction with invalid state musician block eight can assume this is not the case because if it is the case seven will be enrolled and so will be 8 so if 8 exists if way if 8 exist in the future that means 7 was fully valid right so when you produce it you can assume that 7 is valid if it is not April not it it will be enrolled with 7 sure but if we enroll 7 yeah then uh how do we recompose the transactions in there there has to be another round of or so what will happen with collation surface wave sevens action right so if 7 gets enrolled right so let's say someone was produced 8 was produced maybe even 9 was produced sure and then we learned about energy right because chunk one yeah wasn't balanced in Val so what will happen is that in every social it's thing from perspective of some chunk producer who isn't shortly right so then they in the short three then all those blocks get enrolled they will they know the chance they will move all the transactions back to the transaction pool right and so as they start producing chunks in the new chain when they it works out they will be inputting those those transactions into the unit that show producer in 743 yeah isn't going to be the chunk like he will then re like reproduce that chunk for 9 they will not reproduce the exactly same chain but they will include as many transactions as they can right so if this if the chain gets unrolled whatever state transition happens it gets canceled right so as as as a user of the chain unless like introduction even if even if you even if the block like got so we have a finality gadget even if the block was finalized the finality gadget unless you shorten that there was no invalid state transition in other charts your transaction can still be enrolled canceled and there is no guarantee that it will be included again on the new chain right so effectively your options here are a either to like if you absolutely cannot allow that to happen like your your an exchange well then invest more money and actually have a single server for short right because if you track every shot you know there was an invalid state transition then if the block is final you know there's no invalid transitions you know this is the chain will not handle your other option is just to wait sufficiently long and after some after some time you can visit it there are little ways or times I'm gonna get probably the the implication of that is then finality is a like a some corresponding number of blocks extra to ensure that that can't be reverted so so this is what yeah you can't have like like say sub five-second finality or you participants who track all the shorts do have sub plexuses that subway say well maybe it's on sub five second because you need to keep blocks put the finality gadget to finalize something but it's like SEP 10 seconds right if you track all the shells you do have something seconds finality otherwise yeah your two options is either wait significantly longer until you're certain the challenge would have propagated or or give zero FS and just say well you know like for my use case nobody will be unrolling my transaction so it will get it will get back to be to the chunk anyway when can you be certain that a rollback Honecker anymore so for rollback so one thing we plan to do we did not do it yet because it's not it has it has some issues with it but one of the ideas is that you cannot you cannot roll back more than certain number of heads back right so if it's being if it's been like an hour then the challenge must have been propagated by now and so we can say you know we're not gonna unroll more than one hour back but what if you have a transaction that has been like a double span that's been inserted you still would not roll back if in one hour it was not what first of all probably like in the practice there is no way it will not be supported in one hour but let's say it did happen one hour later the damage of unrolling the chin who is way bigger than that transaction so that point you need to do some social consensus you they say well guys we messed up so the money's double that's unfortunate are you saying well guys we're gonna find them in some way so at that point if it's been more than an hour and rolling the Chinese is more damage then than the double spam well unless you just touched in the finality gadget out as long as you need right first year yeah but you do one for all practical for all practical purposes on property so finality gadget that is important it doesn't wait for the tower because a participant's could attract all the shots that they should have finality very quickly because they know there is no invalid state transition right and be if you if you're not talking of transacting $1,000,000 you still want to have finality which effectively says and unless an extremely unlikely event or when invalid state transition happened my transaction is fine yet right and so and so this is actually interesting so we have to level the finality this is orthogonal to shortening but let me touch on that we have one which we call doom slide finality and another one is like proper BFG finality so the FD finality is and the normal circumstance will be three blocks behind so when you produce look at ten the block at seven will help DFT finality as assuming that most of the approvals happened to be included in most of the blocks the and the DFT phonology says unless one third of all this take is slash that work is final or unless there is an invalid situation right while those like finality happens on the on the very previous blog so when one block is produced the very previous workers don't like finality and looms like finality says unless of this someone is slashed that block is final which is actually very very meaningful phonology during keen practice because once take like if there is 200 more producers right and like you know like if I give 30% of the total amount or the total circulating supply is stay stake it once last person is a lot of money if any any block producer or chunk producer it's that slash in the given he talk yeah it's then its finality yeah is is where help yeah that we call that's what we call dupes like cannot we're saying this book is final unless at least one person is slashed and one person being such as one to hundreds of the total state credits it's not as much as one-third but it's still a pretty meaningful amount of money and so boobs like phenology doesn't care about natural it already accounts for the possibility of invalid state transition because invalid state transition means one person is actually slashed at saloon flex tonality doesn't have this aesthetics which says or as an invalid a transition happen it's already accounted for right and so those like finality is what presumably majority of non defy applications would be using because if you have a game or something that or like any any anything that doesn't open - yeah any standard message however we do recognize it like problem you know in all probability the the most is certainly the most compelling use case you find ya are ones that are financial messages or financial transactions operating so like let's say you're perching a lot of - like you're an exchange or you like you you haha but but the way you use defying is is with a lot of money then then it is actually very beneficial for you at that point to up to track all the charts in which case you do have actual nifty finality because because you do know that these are invalid they transition you will know that these invalid state transition you will you will actually be the one Google Santa challenge to the network at that at that point right yeah so that's the idea and so let's get back to these seats right so yeah because I'm actually thinking like just the time just the time necessary to execute this we're looking out like two blocks which is which is which is too much but it is actually possible to make it in one block even if you store the please state route the way you do that is it's pretty interesting let me see if I can it always takes me time to remember all the do somebody produces a block they produce like a post state route and pre state route from that block production so you cannot produce postage word that would that's what we just discussed with EF that would require you to that would require you applying so the block onion could switch a pre finality yes okay so this is where it gets interesting it's actually it's actually heavily relies on our way of doing data availability so when seven is produced it includes the pre state to it and so therefore it does not have it does not have the latest it's obviously sure then then this is a book so this is the chunk Rachel so let me draw the block like this right so this is the block which include it includes this change that's all these sacs this junk is here right now when when you're producing the chunk of it for short - right at this point you you downloaded this block sorry yeah you receive this block you verified that like all the chunks exists whatever at this point you don't know the receipts yet you know the you know the please stay true to it for you apply seven obviously when you apply seven you cannot have the receipts from from this seven yet but that but we don't want to have zero blocks we want to have one block right so your player whatever transactions happen to be in seven for the short - you compute or state route as of seven that will be pre statehood as of eight and you include transactions that you accumulated in your transaction pool and ideally you would you would prefer to also include these seeds from as of after seven in all other shells but you cannot they don't exist yet right because because participants even if you did you'd probably end up just like having blockchain blow with the mana tree oh that's not separate that never will cover separately through the network that'll cover separately that's a separate program that's also yeah that's that's also preaching bad so you cannot have three seeds of after seven because as you produce eight the participant is short one they they concurrently with you applying seven right so they you might because you want there it is they want your ratios right so one of the one of you have to produce sorry this is one of you have to produce your chunk earlier so remember have you produced the chunk earlier cannot have the distance from the other one but also at this time we don't really need this is because of this time we're not applying it yet so what happens after that is reproducing the block at height H so this was seven this is it right we producing we're producing this block and so now consider the person who who is about to produce nine in the short - when they accepting this block this is when they need to to accept this block they need to receive a share from every short and so as we send that share for them we also receive a cent so they saying I give you the share of this check in third one so whomever is sending them the share in Changwon is someone who tracks shard one fully they will also send them all the receipts that go from short one - sure - as of after playing block seven of just those just those transactions that are crossed yes the other transactions which specifically customs from one to two years are sending like every transit nothing from that justice just go from one to two are going to be sent as they receive this little share of the block eight right uh and they will apply those receipts as they are applying chunk of eight right because chunk of eight they will learn about it as a part three seeing this block by the time I didn't a fully to look at hiding yeah what so then the block eight cross card transactions get seven right yeah sure so blocks or block seven cross shard transactions will be a pleasant-looking I know well but notice that the transaction so it might appear as two blocks time but actually it is a one block time because the the transaction itself the transaction itself that produced a seed was applied and I have another color the transaction that produced the receipt was applied approximately here this is when it was applied because it was included at seven but it was applied before eight this is one that turns the first step of the transaction got applied the second hope got applied here so the time between two hopes is exactly one block and so if it has another hope you could go to another short it will be applied at the very next height and so because of that if your transaction touches like five shirts it will be applied in five block time not intend block time yeah which is but then if you have a reversion then it ends up being before it is on this chain so it is completely up to me because if your reversion happens to be as or before this block then the transaction was not even up was not applied initially to begin with if it happens if it the reversion happened to be here between eight and nine then whomever applies like there's not a book it's not here then that would be essentially applied in block 11 oh it doesn't matter when it is yeah it might be a point later it might be a plate later but it isn't that they said cannot get lost because they see people that's important because you want if you have a chance for reversion and you're looking at then you're looking at block 11 yeah as your like as your finality timeline where you where the picture of finality starts to take hold and then we're looking at you know four blocks or aversion happens you can look at significantly more because reversion can happen let's say within an hour a sir I'm using the question to one hour that constant cousin decided that yeah what is what is tentatively the plan for for epoch life company okay yeah so then a bit effectively it could be that right right okay so so unless unless it doesn't happens and if you some sort of an exchange or someone who runs every shark you will know that your version will not happen because you're tracking all the shots so unless you've all room happens and assuming that there is no heartbeat skipped recedes take exactly one block right to propagate which is which is pretty good given like the arguments I've provided before for why it is relatively hard to achieve also the atomic because the when you apply this this state route right in the in the chunk at rite-aid it contains the stator that also contains the outgoing receipt route right and so when no matter when you produce the new chunk in the second shot you will always say so let's say it was not produced and was not produced or like I seen and was not produced and tell was not produced and at some point you're producing at some point you're producing here 11 or whatever when you produce 11 you will say what was the last one I include that wasn't my chard it was 8 and so from starting from 8 for every for every height you will be pulling those shares from the from the from the charts that will contain the seeds the other seeds contain the proof against the outgoing received merkel route right and so you there is no way you will not collect all the receipts there is also no way for you to exclude some of them because when you include the receipts ultimately into the chunk everybody can verify that they match the the Merkel route and a deferred right so so timidity is going to it is impossible not to include adhesive and and its propagate in one block time but but you you've worked up a very important point which is there are many ways to to start up using this the easiest way is you can get you can start sending to all cert transactions that all generate receive them to third one right so let's say the block can include hundred transactions right without loss of generality right so everyone can handle hundred transactions so to every every chunk so to every short you some hundred transactions each of each of which will generate a receipt or chart one so at the end of the application of that height chart one is looking at these ten thousand three seeds going to short one so short one is overbought naturally they cannot apply them all at once I will not be able to tell you the full solution right now it's not me it's Eugene who works on it but on the high level what happens is that there is a queue of those gee seeds so all ten thousand digits actually will go to third one and that will create quite a bit of network overhead on that particular iteration how do you create queue what would be the canonical attestation of time there so so the queue is only maintained by the actual short one right so they receive so it's on the first on the first time stamp when that happened they will actually get all the ten thousand digits and it will be it will create some very unfortunate events in the network because they will have to retrieve quite a bit of data but once they put those 10,000 receipts they sort of say okay guys we we have too much at this point everybody knows about it it is included in the next chunk they produce and so at that point I think what we do is we just disallow receipts to go to the chart so the transaction which tries to send a seed into the short which has a queue which is too long it will just fail and unroll all the way back but yeah sure so that's a again this is this is not rocket science but also this is not quite ours this is this is quark chains approach they also do that they they also have the queue and every shirt that has receipts and like we should just add up to the queue and you get the front from the queue and all of that all those me means behaviors can be proven it's it's not easy to prove them but they all cryptographic approvable so you can prove that sheets were added to the queue you can prove that you took the beginning from the queue cool Jean yeah yeah any questions comments critiques things like that now write down right so we can also talk about adaptive corruption because naturally with only 20 block producers per shirt at that of the corrupting them is is well maybe not evil but clearly doable right and so if there is no if you adaptively corrupt when you block producers then they can apply arbitrary state transition or make you know they can do quite a bit of damage so so these are naive naively we can say that there is always a fisherman right so near is going to be running every short coin which is gonna be running every short let's say finance is running of yourself so we can we can assume it is always a fisherman in every short and so for as long as data availability is not violated because just like large players that let's track all the transactions all sure yes but that's that's like Mona Eve statement but this is this is this is like the first argument there's gonna be a stronger argument in a second and so and so naive will you expect that for a long as data is available data availability is crucial because if that is not available you can create a valid state transition not distribute the chunk right so nobody can create a challenge but for data it - well well I did availability it's not enough to corrupt a particular chunk so a particular short you need to crap actually more than large percentage of the total population right Wow yeah no you just need book which is just a one chunk right thank you would be enough but they didn't really do it you need to corrupt 30% of the entire set of low produced okay no across all change because what because those are is because because when you create chunky the shares are going to all the bonuses right so front but for as long as data availability is there fishermen will work in the practice it will work like in the practice and for for what we're going to be launching soon is not going to be the only you know more economic incentives there are for for fishermen right actually fishermen have no economic incentive the reason for that is that if you create a challenge as a fisherman whomever actually going to be including it into the blog they can always front-run you they will get your challenge and submitted from their name and preventing that from run running if possible you can do some coming to reveal scheme or something like that but it all delays the time to challenge and for challenge you you want it to let as fast as possible like ideally when the invalid block has produced the challenge to be immediately be distributed through the network I know you want the book to be reverted before the next one is even produced right and if there's no that there's no economic incentive then then what what stops people from just challenging every single block and civil attacking them oh no no the challenging it to have a stake in a valid challenge has a flexible behavior but why would I why would I bother challenging if it costs me steak but I earn no reward so so that is that the people who will challenge are gonna be people who have some other people who just like benevolently want the system to be like for example I myself one that's right so as I said like Mir for example who's running the full set or run then that's obviously not very good for your run Fisher yeah yeah that's a we categorize personalization you know what but naturally hypothetical coinbase if they least Mir they have a very strong incentive for an imbalance at initial not to go through crises like you also use the example of Finance and and I would I would actually flip that and and this could be applied to not necessarily buying a book but but any others where finance has inherently a very large financial incentive to break near lapsim right over here but by not admitting change they're not doing much damage here we can we can just sure but why wouldn't they just then submit challenges incessantly and like invalid change yeah and because every mother challenge will slash them invalid challenge puts money right so so what a malicious actor can try to do is they can they can fit an invalid state transition and after decade is no valid state transition they can sacrifice a lot of stake and start spamming with invalid challenges so that the ballot challenge doesn't go to that is first of all very expensive but second of all the idea is that every invalid challenge does delays the the time and kill ballot can go through and so like that that's that's one way to adjust it I didn't think too much about it maybe there's some issues with that but submitting invalid challenges for an hour at every block is extremely expansion generally I would want to think about this further but don't really I there there would be some concern with just imbalance and economic incentives and like if you only have if you only have fishermen who are inherently benevolent in the system then you know then you may only get a certain type of challenge you may not get the whole breadth of challenges right but again as I said that's it that's a sort of naive solution that's all we're going to have one go launch because in expectation of what you will try to break anywhere near in the first year or so so so far so far there's a box of ridiculous extent were we're living in block chains for years without being quote so because like the sophistication of that like is actually pretty big you need to first of all you need to adapt to any craft an entire chart which is doable but it is expensive right you actually do need to pay the state because 2020 block producers will be slashed yeah right so you actually do need to pay 20 what producers their stake second of all you do need to ensure that not a single fisherman will challenge right so yeah like a need to maybe show that coinbase doesn't show engineer doesn't challenge whoever else doesn't shell a child yeah it's a very expensive attack which is which has very little chance of actually going to right so but but would you have a better solution so first of all let's actually quickly quickly talk about how how a theorem shows it and why we do not do the same so the way idiom shows it is they say like why is our epoch half a day and an etherium can shuffle every six minutes is because in a theorem the validating node does not need to have the state and an ear it does need to have a state and the difference is that in a theorem the block when it is distributed or like what would be a chunk in our case it has it has witnesses it has sufficient it has Merkel proofs of this state that before the transaction after the transaction ready and those witnesses they actually make looks quite a bit bigger they make the murder of magnitude bigger and so that's that's the main reason why we don't do that because increasing by an order of magnitude amount of traffic is actually quite expensive but what what they allow to do they actually they actually give you a ridiculous level of security because because of that of corruption becomes practically impossible it's practically impossible to corrupt within six minutes or like whatever is the time like someone could argue like you know like some like your your fellow stop and decrypt will be obviously arguing that that is that is not secure its but six six minutes for all practical purposes adaptive corruption is impossible but in here because we don't want to send witnesses with every block we do need to have the full state and unloading the full stay for a short takes quite a while right and so therefore we do need to have longer epoch left so what do we do what we plan to do for the fight adaptive corruption is we want to have the second role which we call validators there are two reasons why we don't do anything with main net one is that they actually will take quite a bit of time to build right so that would easily delays for another year or so but the second reason is that we're just not going to have enough I mean we're not a stealing wouldn't watch we just not gonna have enough people who run near to have such to know that there's a way to make what I will describe any meaningful right but the idea is that you have blood producers so blood producers we have on the order of 200 producers those unknown you know you know which blood producers produce work for which charge their schedule is known then they add up to the corruptible there's a larger set of validators so as the column validators and so this is a significantly larger so ideally you would you would want to have well as many as you can you know like you want to have as many validators per chart as as possible oh yeah and here what is important is that you don't know which validator is relating which are good validator is doing is that when deepak starts the validator so this is let's look from perspective of a single validator they're running their effort and the vrf will give them a bit mask over or a subset of shirts and so so fact is the you're only be recognized in in a way that will give you precisely like let's say five shirts so let's say we want every ball the data to validate exactly pie chart so they're only we don't have to get exactly five short and so they locally know which arts do validating but nobody else does so what they do is that when they receive a block so this is a block right they'd unload the chunks from the shore to the validate they validate them and if they all valid they they sign on the block right and so how exactly what cumulate signatures we will discuss in a second but they sign on the block and if at least one transaction is not valid they commit to do that book being invalid right or so so for simplicity let's say that they create a message and that message either says yay and so yay means you know I validate all my charts and my charts are good or it says nay and it contains the challenge and so then they can meet within the next ten blocks or like some number of block doesn't matter how many within the next ten blocks they commit to this message and then within the next that many blocks they need to reveal the message right cool so what happens next is if if a particular but they don't get anything if the right right on that challenge what about the challenge me so validators they just get constant reward sure so a validator at the end of the e-book just for being a valid if they get constant award which is dependent on how many times they committed a slash revealed all the only reveal you know you also only reveal in fact but they get like we always do yeah if whether they whether they challenged or not they get the same they get the same do next and do next step right so next time so this is like why you know why bother the challenge no they do not share you see they it's it's not an option for them to send or not to send became that that can mean they have to send it in it is a done something to me they don't get your word for that particular height so at every height they will either commit to a or to or to the challenge right so so effectively your question is not well why bother sending challenge it your question is more like why not why not just always submit yeah yeah so what happens is what happens is that an actual challenge arrives if an actual challenge does happen and you're wrong then then every blog producer than everybody but here's the thing because we don't know which arts de validating it could be so you imagine that there and I not find out what charts they're validating by knowing what chunks they're downloading so yes or by not by analyzing Network you can you can try to deduce it so the idea would be to like the idea for such a block producer is to keep their account which signs independent from the node that training so like you can identify that a particular node of the network is done loading particular chunks but you don't know like like ideal you don't know the developer should try to conceal you know like effectively sent sent your sent your sent your challenges from a different IP address then we could enforce it it would be great if we find a way to enforce them in some way to note because obviously if they use the same machine to send to send the signatures and to accumulate rank zaniest and then they can easily be a tribute to base our monitors network if you don't have any immediate questions that you want to look at right now I would motion to cut this now I got a run to my next meeting yeah we only add yeah until 11:30 anyways imagine you've got a whole bunch of stuff to do but do you have any like last questions or comments or things that you want to go over or or maybe no no no but I want to think about it a little more and then probably look either email you or message if you have one more minute I can I think so what happens here is that at the end of the day if any challenge goes through then all the block producers all the validators they need to reveal their mask they wanted they committed tobe devera they can either today at the beginning of a poke right and so then in the mask you can see if they were supposed to produce here or the challenge so whether they have to reveal their mask and they have to reveal what they committed to right and so if they this is the only place for being a flying can check and slash it because if you don't reveal your mask within like next five books you get slashed right because your because we need to see we need to see if you were supposed to challenge or not right so so effectively when the challenge is review you must evil your mask which either need to have zero in the support in the in the English our dog that's that get challenged or it means to get one but you but you're coming should before the challenge is about right an attacker would probably wait to like to attack the network and try to force validators offline until there's but we can give it a very long period of time for you to read you like a factor we just sing it like an analogy we can make it completely unbounded we can say your stickers look until you really like effective for you to get your stake back your your your instating transaction just need to include that that information that would be yeah oh yeah and so yeah there's a Nash equilibrium where all the pollinators agree to always sigue right but but for love the twist one of them sends challenges everybody who said could you not validate tell me to to a and it was a challenge they will get slashed right and so ah and so now that everybody like says yeah and the Challenger and the Challenger who challenges even if they're challenged incorrectly could I mean everybody gets wet Enquirer ever well not necessarily not if if more than two-thirds are saying yeah it doesn't matter how many said yeah because the moment challenge got into the network they they the moment challenge landed into into the blockchain and and and challenges they included in the on the on the top level into the blocks at that moment for you to get your stake back you have to provide a prove that you did not commit to a right so you would not be able to get your stake back without if you commit a PA on an invalid chunk you will never be able to get your stake back so effectively at this last on an invalid junk right yeah but but effectively two-thirds can validate validate a chunk with yay oh no this the validity of shank is not defined by how many people endorsed it the validity of chunk is defined very very strict rules so so a challenge can say it doesn't matter it could be the hundred percent of people or like a hundred percent minus one people on signed on it but the challenge will just say hi guys this is the priests a truth this is the post-dated that they signed up on this isn't of transactions apply them for yourself and see and see that it doesn't apply and at that point we actually do do status validation so actually do sell the witnesses for all the for the state before and after and people can actually apply them without the loading state so we do have the technical material which is music on every block and that technique actually is implemented so hidden abilities are not implemented but the but the stateless validation is implemented yeah cool okay thank you all right guys cool cool","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-04T04:26:13.889Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":0,"text":"cool okay so I can walk through nitrate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=0s"},{"start_seconds":11,"text":"sure with Dean any specific questions you wanna you want to tackle right off","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=11s"},{"start_seconds":18,"text":"the top the two that I'm that come to mind for me are with respect to to like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=18s"},{"start_seconds":26,"text":"reversion of a transaction when you have cross shard communication and then just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=26s"},{"start_seconds":34,"text":"sort of like fundamental security assumption differences verses they do yeah I think the easiest one to run at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=34s"},{"start_seconds":43,"text":"the beginning is what's the difference between near charting and the ease -","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=43s"},{"start_seconds":49,"text":"mm-hmm yep okay so I will just quickly walk to nitrate and then and then we'll go from there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=49s"},{"start_seconds":57,"text":"so in nightshade I will assume that neither of you know nitrate very deeply so I will go into into detail right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=57s"},{"start_seconds":67,"text":"instead of having a lot of short chains","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=67s"},{"start_seconds":74,"text":"instead we have instead are there's only one block chain and so it builds blocks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=74s"},{"start_seconds":84,"text":"the way blocks are built are also interesting but I guess it's underrated to sharding some propagation and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=84s"},{"start_seconds":93,"text":"finality is somewhat similar to polka dots relay chain correct ah the only thing that the similar to polka look is data availability which is practically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=93s"},{"start_seconds":102,"text":"taken from polka dot one to one so every block logically contains all the transactions and all the shirts so every","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=102s"},{"start_seconds":110,"text":"block will contain some sort of header which contains a global state route global transaction route across those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=110s"},{"start_seconds":118,"text":"charts and then logically it contains all the transactions in all the shards but physically it contains what we call","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=118s"},{"start_seconds":125,"text":"chunks one per shorts if these four shards the block would contain chain for short one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=125s"},{"start_seconds":133,"text":"for sure 2 3 etc some of them may be missing right you're the blood producer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=133s"},{"start_seconds":140,"text":"didn't give the chunk in time the chunk will be missing so for every shard the block will contain 1 or 0 chunks now and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=140s"},{"start_seconds":150,"text":"then the next block will contain again junk for the first shirt for the second","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=150s"},{"start_seconds":157,"text":"for third etc what you have managed to collect in time what what what what are chunks so chance is what the in eighth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=157s"},{"start_seconds":165,"text":"two would be the short block right to chunk okay chan salute the entire short block you include the header hood right so the block the block effectively","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=165s"},{"start_seconds":174,"text":"contains the block header and chunk header paid for every chunk now what happens is these are everybody produces","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=174s"},{"start_seconds":184,"text":"block size if you have a set of block producers that they have 200 they will all be taking turns producing blocks but they will be splitting into shards and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=184s"},{"start_seconds":191,"text":"every shot will have a few of them like let's say every shot has ten or like 20 block producers and so the blood producers are out of the whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=191s"},{"start_seconds":199,"text":"population of 200 so this is 200 people let's say right so these 200 total the first twin it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=199s"},{"start_seconds":208,"text":"could be working on some shorts the next 20 work on some sharks the next when you work on some charge etcetera they don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=208s"},{"start_seconds":216,"text":"have each of them doesn't have to have one short in your allocate most of them will have several shorts but but none of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=216s"},{"start_seconds":222,"text":"them works in all the shirts and or rather it none of them works on a large","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=222s"},{"start_seconds":229,"text":"on something that is on the order of magnitude of number of charts right so these if there's a charts probably everybody will be working on one or two of these hundred charts everybody will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=229s"},{"start_seconds":236,"text":"be working like on five on five right and so among those twinny they have a schedule of producing chunks right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=236s"},{"start_seconds":244,"text":"there's going to be a fixed schedule of length 20 right so every every 20 blocks it will it will repeat alright and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=244s"},{"start_seconds":253,"text":"for example if this was quite seven and this was right 8 then for height 7 for every chunk there was a particular blood producer who was assigned to produce","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=253s"},{"start_seconds":261,"text":"chunk and the moment they received the previous block and the moment they managed to fetch the chunk for their short let's say let's consider the particular","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=261s"},{"start_seconds":268,"text":"person who is responsible for producing chunk for short one at this height I wonder issued the previous look at right well hopefully it was head 6","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=268s"},{"start_seconds":275,"text":"didn't have to be the chief check for height 1 the moment they issued the book they will try to fetch the chunk and in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=275s"},{"start_seconds":284,"text":"a second I will say I will tell how we make it very likely that they will be able to the moment they face the chunk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=284s"},{"start_seconds":292,"text":"for for for their chart they apply it they get the new State Road they get transaction from that transaction pool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=292s"},{"start_seconds":298,"text":"and they create a new chunk okay which they immediately sent to the blood producer of 4/7 how many times are valid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=298s"},{"start_seconds":309,"text":"in charge shuffled like once every half a day let's see okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=309s"},{"start_seconds":316,"text":"right because in the theory and these two it's like every six minutes I think right right so we will get back to those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=316s"},{"start_seconds":323,"text":"differences I guess for first-time ones it looked like data availability in overall structure and then start comparing why why they can and we cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=323s"},{"start_seconds":331,"text":"sample every six minutes and and how that affects like adaptive corruption and what we do to prevent it so one thing is that in this in this design I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=331s"},{"start_seconds":341,"text":"just talked about one big problem is that chunks might not be available right so this person who created the chunk I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=341s"},{"start_seconds":348,"text":"they are malicious they can create a chunk like naturally the block producer cannot download all the chunks that will effectively mean they have to download","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=348s"},{"start_seconds":355,"text":"all the transactions for all the shirts so that completely eliminates well not completely but it eliminates most of the benefits of shorting obviously the blood producer can only see the headers and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=355s"},{"start_seconds":364,"text":"maybe a little bit not the information so if this blood producer champ register was malicious then they would send enough information to the blood producer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=364s"},{"start_seconds":372,"text":"to include chunk one but not enough information to the to the rest of the network for the chunk to be recoverable right and so the next channel producer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=372s"},{"start_seconds":380,"text":"when the book 7 is produced they will not be able to to fetch the chunk so they will not be able to create the next one that would be pretty bad so the way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=380s"},{"start_seconds":389,"text":"we do that is when the chunk producer produces the chunk they like let's say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=389s"},{"start_seconds":397,"text":"this is the chunk they they split it into small parts and the eraser coded and they sent and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=397s"},{"start_seconds":408,"text":"each of the shares of the eraser coded chunk has a particular blood producer who is known like everybody can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=408s"},{"start_seconds":416,"text":"everybody can easily locally compute who is the block producer who's dedicated to each of those parts and so of those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=416s"},{"start_seconds":423,"text":"shares and each share is sent to that particular blood producer right and so for as long as so let's say let's say we do like I don't know the correct terminology but let's say the number of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=423s"},{"start_seconds":431,"text":"data data shares is like K and the number of parity shares is let's say 2 K right so for as long as one third of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=431s"},{"start_seconds":438,"text":"those blood producers who were who receive the parts the shares are online and and behaving properly everybody will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=438s"},{"start_seconds":446,"text":"be able to reconstruct the the chunk and so for now for this in practice we use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=446s"},{"start_seconds":453,"text":"two K parity shards but for theoretical analysis let's use five key fine kick","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=453s"},{"start_seconds":462,"text":"has better guarantees so now what happens when the block is produced is every other block","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=462s"},{"start_seconds":469,"text":"producer will only accept this block in one of the two cases case number one is that they follow the shard and there they were able to fully reconstruct the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=469s"},{"start_seconds":476,"text":"chunk in case number two is they do not follow the shirt and they and they had their part the part that was sent to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=476s"},{"start_seconds":484,"text":"them specifically right most of them do not follow the short right but therefore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=484s"},{"start_seconds":491,"text":"let's say let's say that the we assume that 30% so for specifically for data availability wasting the 30% of at most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=491s"},{"start_seconds":500,"text":"30 percent are means behaving and 70 percent are good and honest then give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=500s"},{"start_seconds":508,"text":"30% are not sending their parts that were sent to them because we have because wandering in one sixth right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=508s"},{"start_seconds":515,"text":"because number of data shares is one sixth of the total then I if a bloke has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=515s"},{"start_seconds":521,"text":"50% of people who say we were able to accept the block if 50% of all produce to accept the block that means that even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=521s"},{"start_seconds":529,"text":"30 of them are lying that they have their part one six them is still saying truth and so every chunk is reproducible is recoverable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=529s"},{"start_seconds":537,"text":"that makes sense yeah yeah yeah cool and they still a problem well they're going to be mini small problems on the way up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=537s"},{"start_seconds":545,"text":"or all of them we have some satisfactory solution so a couple o couple that already happen here one is that for a check with you it's very easy to grieve","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=545s"},{"start_seconds":552,"text":"the blog producer in the sense that they can send them a chunk but not send it to anyone else right so so yeah nobody will recover the check and people will ignore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=552s"},{"start_seconds":560,"text":"the blog but block was like the blood producer lost the reward the entire system missed a heartbeat because the block was not included ultimately all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=560s"},{"start_seconds":567,"text":"right so that's pretty bad the way we fight with that is the blood producer after producing the block will try to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=567s"},{"start_seconds":574,"text":"sample couple parts for every jump and for the chives for them for which they fail to do that they will never accept the chunks from that young producer so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=574s"},{"start_seconds":582,"text":"the joint producer will be able to give once but that's acceptable I mean they they never be able to produce any chunk with that particular blood producer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=582s"},{"start_seconds":589,"text":"again and now the problem is that someone can theoretically invite the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=589s"},{"start_seconds":597,"text":"next block that chunk producer could produce the could produce that chunk and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=597s"},{"start_seconds":604,"text":"send it to the block producer along with previous chunk and then but the previous one and essentially attack the the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=604s"},{"start_seconds":614,"text":"block producer and give advantage to the second block producer so advantage doesn't matter much the way the way we produced walks it's called dune slug it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=614s"},{"start_seconds":622,"text":"doesn't it doesn't give much opportunities for two neighboring work producers to give each other so two neighboring both producers cannot do much to give each other all right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=622s"},{"start_seconds":630,"text":"whether or not they have some advantage now if we Chum produces sands and that information to the next block producers to fully reconstruct the chunk in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=630s"},{"start_seconds":638,"text":"previous block and that nice black producer has the chance so everybody will be able ultimately to collect sufficient number of parts or shares","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=638s"},{"start_seconds":646,"text":"from that low producer so in fact the chunk is available what the BLA producer Chum producer can try to do is they can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=646s"},{"start_seconds":654,"text":"try to give the first work producer successfully right as I said this is it they will be successfully able to give once every block producer so they can use they can give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=654s"},{"start_seconds":662,"text":"once this once this will produce for once this book producer wants nice book etc and so effective they can stole the system for a while now the way we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=662s"},{"start_seconds":670,"text":"prevent that is that when the first look is produced when the second blow producer sees the first look if they not able to recover some chunks quickly they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=670s"},{"start_seconds":679,"text":"will until they recover a particular chunk they will not accept anything from the chunk from that time producer Francesc and producer give the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=679s"},{"start_seconds":687,"text":"blood producer the second until they're able to fetch the chunk they will not be accepting chance from the chunk produced and so they will not be grieved if they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=687s"},{"start_seconds":695,"text":"can throw multiple temperatures for business to be able certainly then stop the propagation of those chunks because the chunk produced 2,000 produce chunks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=695s"},{"start_seconds":704,"text":"in the same shot multiple times right so on the next video is going to be a different time producing chunk one so that will be accepted now the jump producer will will make two to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=704s"},{"start_seconds":713,"text":"skipped on this height three to be stitched on the next head that's unfortunate but unless you have a situation whereby the original chunk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=713s"},{"start_seconds":721,"text":"producer has been randomly selected to produce yes yes it would happen periodically but probably not yeah that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=721s"},{"start_seconds":729,"text":"well in practice in practice most of the chunk producers are going to be honest right it does it doesn't happen often that someone intentionally tries to give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=729s"},{"start_seconds":736,"text":"but the goal is to prove rig so sort of reduce as much as possible what the bad actor can do without especially without","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=736s"},{"start_seconds":744,"text":"being punished because in this case the chyme producer don't the punishment they get is that the missing reward in the future because they will be kicked out I mean they wouldn't necessarily then be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=744s"},{"start_seconds":753,"text":"slashed if they so we do not flash for anything that is not cryptographically probable you cannot prove that data was not available you can only prove data","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=753s"},{"start_seconds":761,"text":"availability so so there were also different raw material there is no slashing for leaking or like whatever it's called and so the only thing they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=761s"},{"start_seconds":768,"text":"lose really is that they get kicked out eventually because their chunks are not included if you did not produce enough chunks doing ve but you get kicked out from the validator set so that's done","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=768s"},{"start_seconds":777,"text":"differently they really recently in this case cool another thing validator set that will take them a while and and also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=777s"},{"start_seconds":785,"text":"everybody already banned them so when they reenter still nobody will get set from there their chunks but that would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=785s"},{"start_seconds":793,"text":"not also happen when there just isn't a availability from the given chunk and then that and then that chunk producer will get kicked out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=793s"},{"start_seconds":800,"text":"but then not due to their own fault city young so if it so there's two instances right one is that a chunk producer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=800s"},{"start_seconds":809,"text":"doesn't have the necessary data to compose the drink and propose it to the block producer the second is that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=809s"},{"start_seconds":818,"text":"chunk producers malicious and has intentionally withheld the chunk but but but it's a different thing when you did","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=818s"},{"start_seconds":825,"text":"not if you don't have enough data to produce your chunk that means that the previous check was not available to begin with right so the previous parties","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=825s"},{"start_seconds":835,"text":"can slash or so for data availability we never slash but what will happen in the rants case so what ryan says is that imagine","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=835s"},{"start_seconds":841,"text":"that chunk one here for some reason is not available right and for the chunk producer in this in for this for this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=841s"},{"start_seconds":850,"text":"height they cannot retrieve the chunk they cannot produce the block but in reality what will happen is that until they achieve the chunk they will not even accept this block so for for from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=850s"},{"start_seconds":858,"text":"perspective of the chunk producer for this spot this law doesn't exist yet if the given you can strike the chunk from their perspective the head right now is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=858s"},{"start_seconds":866,"text":"still is still the vlog here yeah and they will be building on top of that which drive which then implies that the block production moves is slow is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=866s"},{"start_seconds":874,"text":"slowest Chum production right is the subsequent block isn't accepted until well at the end of the day this is sort of making about the consensus right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=874s"},{"start_seconds":883,"text":"if this tank is available this time producer would have achieved it so this chunk is not available so ultimately this block will be completely rejected","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=883s"},{"start_seconds":889,"text":"by the system right because not gonna be 50% of people know that so that will be the other chunks right yeah but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=889s"},{"start_seconds":898,"text":"whichever transactions are included here ultimately will will be because then that block will get reverted so that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=898s"},{"start_seconds":906,"text":"ends up being what I'm what I want to ask about with where as the information","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=906s"},{"start_seconds":914,"text":"or like transactions and messages and these chunks are then negatively impacted by this single chunk producer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=914s"},{"start_seconds":923,"text":"limiting or or hiding right there but that but that can happen like the number of times they can do this negative","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=923s"},{"start_seconds":932,"text":"impact is limited because if they did it once nobody will again except their chunks sure but they correct it so wonderful right and just change addresses and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=932s"},{"start_seconds":941,"text":"reenter ah that that's per account right because they have stake so that's per account they will need they will that'll","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=941s"},{"start_seconds":948,"text":"take the multiple days to reenter again because they need to move money sure yes they need to just take it but right so stack those on top of each","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=948s"},{"start_seconds":955,"text":"other right you can Sybil it and have like multiple accounts and then just be passing there yes so so so the question is how many of the 200 they control","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=955s"},{"start_seconds":963,"text":"right so if these 200 book producers what percentage of them they control that that's how much they can give but also how much they get that because they're losing quite a bit of money by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=963s"},{"start_seconds":971,"text":"being checked out not getting the award for that epoch the amount of damage that is my claim is a bit little swivel into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=971s"},{"start_seconds":979,"text":"inflation over that yes but but they but the only making the system skip one heartbeat right because if the book is produced every couple seconds yeah they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=979s"},{"start_seconds":987,"text":"they made the system skipped one block right by by doing that that's painful but books can be skipped or even like under normal circumstances","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=987s"},{"start_seconds":995,"text":"because the propagation was too slow all right so that's blocks will be skipped oh oh all the time that's sort of expected right yeah but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=995s"},{"start_seconds":1004,"text":"let me also cover another so as I said there are many small things that can happen right so I will just give example of another small thing from perspective","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1004s"},{"start_seconds":1012,"text":"of a particular chunk producer right as I said they will not accept a block until they see what one share of every chunk not accepting the block can be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1012s"},{"start_seconds":1021,"text":"damaging for them because then you not accept the block they produce to choke on top of the previous one but the block ultimately was accepted by the system and so their chunk was discarded because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1021s"},{"start_seconds":1029,"text":"it's not building on the on the on the head of the chain so that damages them so for them it's actually beneficial to say well yeah I sort of have to wait for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1029s"},{"start_seconds":1037,"text":"all day for all the shares but I will note I will I will accept the block optimistically if I have like most of them or whatever so to prevent against","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1037s"},{"start_seconds":1044,"text":"that what we do is that when we do a razor code we instead of like for example having 200 of those we have in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1044s"},{"start_seconds":1051,"text":"199 shares and one share the to hundreds one is what we call a honeypot and so if you receive a honeypot you have to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1051s"},{"start_seconds":1059,"text":"report it and if you sign on the block and you're not you're porking that you have the honeypot and you had one that's a slash whole behavior you get your entire stake slashed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1059s"},{"start_seconds":1066,"text":"so every time you blindly sign on the block without having a particular share you have a probability one over 200 or get of your entire stake / that's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1066s"},{"start_seconds":1074,"text":"something that any any sane person would do alright so therefore people have a very strong incentive to to actually truly wait for the for the shares before","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1074s"},{"start_seconds":1082,"text":"signing on the book right so this entire data availability scheme is pocket of data we do it I don't even have the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1082s"},{"start_seconds":1091,"text":"honeypot idea probably they do but but but but the idea of of sending one share to every work producer in the system","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1091s"},{"start_seconds":1099,"text":"that's not spoken that that is not something we invented cool so that being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1099s"},{"start_seconds":1107,"text":"said so then let's let's chat a little bit about cross shard transmissions yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1107s"},{"start_seconds":1117,"text":"so when you have and like obviously each shard shares consensus so you don't have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1117s"},{"start_seconds":1125,"text":"you shouldn't yeah Theory have say substantial time lag between transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1125s"},{"start_seconds":1131,"text":"confirmation between shards so what happens so this is where it gets very interesting because there are sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1131s"},{"start_seconds":1140,"text":"two ways in which you can model how how transactions are processed right and block change in one in one model when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1140s"},{"start_seconds":1148,"text":"you produce a chunk you already execute all the transactions right so so you're the champ that's raised this you're a chunk producer you you collect the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1148s"},{"start_seconds":1157,"text":"transactions from the pool you include them you apply them and so the chunk already contains the statehood as of after applying the transactions so this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1157s"},{"start_seconds":1164,"text":"model has a drawback which if you if you draw the timeline right so let's say that at this point the child for height","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1164s"},{"start_seconds":1173,"text":"7 was produced the the blow producer who produced it had to apply the transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1173s"},{"start_seconds":1182,"text":"right so this is a this is the time it took them to apply the transactions then they send it to the to the child producer for height 8 the jam producer for height 8 when they receive it they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1182s"},{"start_seconds":1190,"text":"first have to apply transactions in 7 they couldn't have been doing it in parallel with the producer of 7 after they applied 7 they so they applying 7","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1190s"},{"start_seconds":1199,"text":"here then they need to apply for it because they producing it they need to apply it and then they produce it right so then they sending it to the mind man first need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1199s"},{"start_seconds":1207,"text":"pre-applied for a then the plate tonight right so so effectively we have for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1207s"},{"start_seconds":1213,"text":"every type we see really apply twice the transactions that make sense so it's like effectively application of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1213s"},{"start_seconds":1220,"text":"transactions for height age by the chunk producer happens Stickley before that application happens where everybody else and so therefore for like 400 heights we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1220s"},{"start_seconds":1229,"text":"will have serially 200 transaction applications which is which can be which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1229s"},{"start_seconds":1237,"text":"assuming the transactions are playing like that's one of the bottlenecks assuming this is not a negligible time that's pretty bad and so a pretty common way of addressing it is having not the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1237s"},{"start_seconds":1246,"text":"post state route in the blog but are the pre state route right so what happens is that the the blog producer for the jump","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1246s"},{"start_seconds":1253,"text":"register for seven in the chunk in the seven includes the priests state route so as of after applying six and the transactions for seven and then when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1253s"},{"start_seconds":1261,"text":"they produced it they them self start applying seven and everybody else also in parallel with them start applying seven right so so that is not zero","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1261s"},{"start_seconds":1269,"text":"anymore this is parallel right and so the blog producer for it can produce a jump reduce afraid produces checks includes the priest a 2005 to applying seven and then they start applying eight","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1269s"},{"start_seconds":1277,"text":"after they send the block and everybody else applies it after day I'm sorry chunk after they receive it so that shortens to add the amount of processing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1277s"},{"start_seconds":1286,"text":"time spent serially but now it has a big problem with the sharding be aware the time I produced chunk the chunk I did","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1286s"},{"start_seconds":1295,"text":"not apply transactions that means I also don't have these seeds that I need to send to all the shards yeah right so therefore what will happen if you do it my evilly is that I create","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1295s"},{"start_seconds":1303,"text":"seven I said four I'm so like now yeah so let's say everything above the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1303s"},{"start_seconds":1312,"text":"axis is for short one everything below is for short - right so now I create the block for heads at time for head seven then someone who creates the chart the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1312s"},{"start_seconds":1319,"text":"time for height eight they will apply transactions only now they will get the receipts they will send them out and so only a height nine naively would what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1319s"},{"start_seconds":1328,"text":"the second short be able to apply them right also the difference in height is two that is very much so so here we have two unless we come up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1328s"},{"start_seconds":1337,"text":"with something smart we would either have to use the first approach where we include post stage with them and so the transaction plication happens twice","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1337s"},{"start_seconds":1346,"text":"yearly or we will have to have two heights difference between receiving use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1346s"},{"start_seconds":1351,"text":"it and applying receive so what we do is is a little more motion just increase","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1351s"},{"start_seconds":1360,"text":"the number of transaction validators consolidating transactions into eight and and then the the block producer can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1360s"},{"start_seconds":1370,"text":"can potentially select from from a wider range of like chunk producers like why","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1370s"},{"start_seconds":1378,"text":"would you just sort of increase the parallelization of of potential options here in in the production of cells but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1378s"},{"start_seconds":1387,"text":"that doesn't help right because it is still the case that by the time seven is produced the receipts are not known yet sure right so you need to wait for it to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1387s"},{"start_seconds":1395,"text":"know that you see if you get good to get eight you need seven fully produced and applied a sure and then all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1395s"},{"start_seconds":1402,"text":"transactions inherent in in eight essentially know you don't care yet all the transactions which will get to eight","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1402s"},{"start_seconds":1410,"text":"they will not affect the disease as of after applying seven for blocking per block per block so here we only care about the specifically what we care","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1410s"},{"start_seconds":1420,"text":"about is how quickly a receipt so thirty receipt is the second part of it so like if it is a cross our transaction it applies on one chart and the receipt for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1420s"},{"start_seconds":1428,"text":"another short and that receipt is affected transaction that will be applied in in in a second chart right so the question is how quickly we can we can we can have the receipt delivered","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1428s"},{"start_seconds":1436,"text":"and include it somewhere in the second chart but that was produced by a transaction the first sure but that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1436s"},{"start_seconds":1442,"text":"receipt needs to be validated by a different party than the per the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1442s"},{"start_seconds":1449,"text":"producing party that ah so all right no so effectively if the chunk is imposed on the block the junkies it's not to be valid that is obviously incorrect","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1449s"},{"start_seconds":1457,"text":"assumption we will talk about that in a second but that but if the shank is included in the block we always assume it's valid we never wait for anything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1457s"},{"start_seconds":1464,"text":"if chanc is included it's belt right because if it is invalid that block will be full and rolled so from perspective of the block that builds on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1464s"},{"start_seconds":1472,"text":"top of it so like let's say block seven has one of the junction with invalid state musician block eight can assume this is not the case because if it is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1472s"},{"start_seconds":1480,"text":"the case seven will be enrolled and so will be 8 so if 8 exists if way if 8 exist in the future that means 7 was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1480s"},{"start_seconds":1488,"text":"fully valid right so when you produce it you can assume that 7 is valid if it is not April not it it will be enrolled with 7 sure but if we enroll 7 yeah then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1488s"},{"start_seconds":1497,"text":"uh how do we recompose the transactions in there there has to be another round of or so what will happen with collation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1497s"},{"start_seconds":1506,"text":"surface wave sevens action right so if 7 gets enrolled right so let's say someone was produced 8 was produced maybe even 9 was produced sure and then we learned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1506s"},{"start_seconds":1514,"text":"about energy right because chunk one yeah wasn't balanced in Val so what will happen is that in every social it's thing from perspective of some chunk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1514s"},{"start_seconds":1523,"text":"producer who isn't shortly right so then they in the short three then all those blocks get enrolled they will they know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1523s"},{"start_seconds":1530,"text":"the chance they will move all the transactions back to the transaction pool right and so as they start producing chunks in the new chain when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1530s"},{"start_seconds":1537,"text":"they it works out they will be inputting those those transactions into the unit that show producer in 743 yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1537s"},{"start_seconds":1545,"text":"isn't going to be the chunk like he will then re like reproduce that chunk for 9 they will not reproduce the exactly same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1545s"},{"start_seconds":1553,"text":"chain but they will include as many transactions as they can right so if this if the chain gets unrolled whatever state transition happens it gets","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1553s"},{"start_seconds":1559,"text":"canceled right so as as as a user of the chain unless like introduction even if even if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1559s"},{"start_seconds":1569,"text":"you even if the block like got so we have a finality gadget even if the block was finalized the finality gadget unless you shorten that there was no invalid state transition in other charts your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1569s"},{"start_seconds":1577,"text":"transaction can still be enrolled canceled and there is no guarantee that it will be included again on the new chain right so effectively your options","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1577s"},{"start_seconds":1586,"text":"here are a either to like if you absolutely cannot allow that to happen like your your an exchange well then invest more money and actually have a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1586s"},{"start_seconds":1594,"text":"single server for short right because if you track every shot you know there was an invalid state transition then if the block is final you know there's no invalid transitions you know this is the chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1594s"},{"start_seconds":1602,"text":"will not handle your other option is just to wait sufficiently long and after some after some time you can visit it there are little ways or times I'm gonna","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1602s"},{"start_seconds":1611,"text":"get probably the the implication of that is then finality is a like a some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1611s"},{"start_seconds":1617,"text":"corresponding number of blocks extra to ensure that that can't be reverted so so this is what yeah you can't have like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1617s"},{"start_seconds":1626,"text":"like say sub five-second finality or you participants who track all the shorts do have sub plexuses","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1626s"},{"start_seconds":1634,"text":"that subway say well maybe it's on sub five second because you need to keep blocks put the finality gadget to finalize something but it's like SEP 10 seconds right if you track all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1634s"},{"start_seconds":1643,"text":"shells you do have something seconds finality otherwise yeah your two options is either wait significantly longer until you're certain the challenge would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1643s"},{"start_seconds":1650,"text":"have propagated or or give zero FS and just say well you know like for my use case nobody will be unrolling my transaction so it will get it will get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1650s"},{"start_seconds":1658,"text":"back to be to the chunk anyway when can you be certain that a rollback Honecker anymore so for rollback so one thing we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1658s"},{"start_seconds":1668,"text":"plan to do we did not do it yet because it's not it has it has some issues with it but one of the ideas is that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1668s"},{"start_seconds":1676,"text":"cannot you cannot roll back more than certain number of heads back right so if it's being if it's been like an hour then the challenge must have been propagated by now and so we can say you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1676s"},{"start_seconds":1684,"text":"know we're not gonna unroll more than one hour back but what if you have a transaction that has been like a double span that's been inserted you still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1684s"},{"start_seconds":1692,"text":"would not roll back if in one hour it was not what first of all probably like in the practice there is no way it will not be supported in one hour but let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1692s"},{"start_seconds":1700,"text":"say it did happen one hour later the damage of unrolling the chin who is way bigger than that transaction so that point you need to do some social consensus you they say well guys we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1700s"},{"start_seconds":1708,"text":"messed up so the money's double that's unfortunate are you saying well guys we're gonna find them in some way so at that point if it's been more than an hour and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1708s"},{"start_seconds":1716,"text":"rolling the Chinese is more damage then than the double spam well unless you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1716s"},{"start_seconds":1723,"text":"just touched in the finality gadget out as long as you need right first year yeah but you do one for all practical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1723s"},{"start_seconds":1730,"text":"for all practical purposes on property so finality gadget that is important it doesn't wait for the tower because a participant's could attract all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1730s"},{"start_seconds":1739,"text":"shots that they should have finality very quickly because they know there is no invalid state transition right and be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1739s"},{"start_seconds":1746,"text":"if you if you're not talking of transacting $1,000,000 you still want to have finality which effectively says and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1746s"},{"start_seconds":1755,"text":"unless an extremely unlikely event or when invalid state transition happened my transaction is fine yet right and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1755s"},{"start_seconds":1762,"text":"and so this is actually interesting so we have to level the finality this is orthogonal to shortening but let me touch on that we have one which we call doom slide finality and another one is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1762s"},{"start_seconds":1772,"text":"like proper BFG finality so the FD finality is and the normal circumstance will be three blocks behind so when you produce look at ten the block at seven","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1772s"},{"start_seconds":1779,"text":"will help DFT finality as assuming that most of the approvals happened to be included in most of the blocks the and the DFT phonology says unless one third","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1779s"},{"start_seconds":1787,"text":"of all this take is slash that work is final or unless there is an invalid situation right while those like finality happens on the on the very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1787s"},{"start_seconds":1795,"text":"previous blog so when one block is produced the very previous workers don't like finality and looms like finality says unless of this someone is slashed that block is final which is actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1795s"},{"start_seconds":1804,"text":"very very meaningful phonology during keen practice because once take like if there is 200 more producers right and like you know like if I give 30% of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1804s"},{"start_seconds":1812,"text":"total amount or the total circulating supply is stay stake it once last person is a lot of money if any any block","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1812s"},{"start_seconds":1820,"text":"producer or chunk producer it's that slash in the given he talk yeah it's then its finality yeah is is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1820s"},{"start_seconds":1828,"text":"where help yeah that we call that's what we call dupes like cannot we're saying this book is final unless at least one person is slashed and one person being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1828s"},{"start_seconds":1835,"text":"such as one to hundreds of the total state credits it's not as much as one-third but it's still a pretty meaningful amount of money and so boobs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1835s"},{"start_seconds":1843,"text":"like phenology doesn't care about natural it already accounts for the possibility of invalid state transition because invalid state transition means","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1843s"},{"start_seconds":1850,"text":"one person is actually slashed at saloon flex tonality doesn't have this aesthetics which says or as an invalid a transition happen it's already accounted","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1850s"},{"start_seconds":1857,"text":"for right and so those like finality is what presumably majority of non defy applications would be using because if you have a game or something that or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1857s"},{"start_seconds":1865,"text":"like any any anything that doesn't open - yeah any standard message however we do recognize it like problem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1865s"},{"start_seconds":1874,"text":"you know in all probability the the most is certainly the most compelling use case you find ya are ones that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1874s"},{"start_seconds":1882,"text":"financial messages or financial transactions operating so like let's say you're perching a lot of - like you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1882s"},{"start_seconds":1888,"text":"an exchange or you like you you haha but but the way you use defying is is with a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1888s"},{"start_seconds":1897,"text":"lot of money then then it is actually very beneficial for you at that point to up to track all the charts in which case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1897s"},{"start_seconds":1904,"text":"you do have actual nifty finality because because you do know that these are invalid they transition you will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1904s"},{"start_seconds":1912,"text":"know that these invalid state transition you will you will actually be the one Google Santa challenge to the network at that at that point right yeah so that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1912s"},{"start_seconds":1920,"text":"the idea and so let's get back to these seats right so yeah because I'm actually thinking like just the time just the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1920s"},{"start_seconds":1928,"text":"time necessary to execute this we're looking out like two blocks which is which is which is too much but it is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1928s"},{"start_seconds":1936,"text":"actually possible to make it in one block even if you store the please state route the way you do that is it's pretty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1936s"},{"start_seconds":1943,"text":"interesting let me see if I can it always takes me time to remember all the do somebody produces a block they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1943s"},{"start_seconds":1951,"text":"produce like a post state route and pre state route from that block production so you cannot produce postage word that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1951s"},{"start_seconds":1958,"text":"would that's what we just discussed with EF that would require you to that would require you applying so the block onion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1958s"},{"start_seconds":1966,"text":"could switch a pre finality yes okay so this is where it gets interesting it's actually it's actually heavily relies on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1966s"},{"start_seconds":1973,"text":"our way of doing data availability so when seven is produced it includes the pre state to it and so therefore it does","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1973s"},{"start_seconds":1980,"text":"not have it does not have the latest it's obviously sure then then this is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1980s"},{"start_seconds":1989,"text":"book so this is the chunk Rachel so let me draw the block like this right so this is the block which include it includes this change that's all these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1989s"},{"start_seconds":1996,"text":"sacs this junk is here right now when when you're producing the chunk of it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=1996s"},{"start_seconds":2006,"text":"for short - right at this point you you downloaded this block sorry yeah you receive this block you verified that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2006s"},{"start_seconds":2014,"text":"like all the chunks exists whatever at this point you don't know the receipts yet you know the you know the please","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2014s"},{"start_seconds":2023,"text":"stay true to it for you apply seven obviously when you apply seven you cannot have the receipts from from this seven yet but that but we don't want to have zero blocks we want to have one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2023s"},{"start_seconds":2031,"text":"block right so your player whatever transactions happen to be in seven for the short - you compute or state route as of seven that will be pre statehood","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2031s"},{"start_seconds":2038,"text":"as of eight and you include transactions that you accumulated in your transaction pool and ideally you would you would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2038s"},{"start_seconds":2046,"text":"prefer to also include these seeds from as of after seven in all other shells but you cannot they don't exist yet right because because participants even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2046s"},{"start_seconds":2055,"text":"if you did you'd probably end up just like having blockchain blow with the mana tree oh that's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2055s"},{"start_seconds":2063,"text":"separate that never will cover separately through the network that'll cover separately that's a separate program that's also yeah that's that's also preaching bad so you cannot have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2063s"},{"start_seconds":2072,"text":"three seeds of after seven because as you produce eight the participant is short one they they concurrently with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2072s"},{"start_seconds":2079,"text":"you applying seven right so they you might because you want there it is they want your ratios right so one of the one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2079s"},{"start_seconds":2086,"text":"of you have to produce sorry this is one of you have to produce your chunk earlier so remember have you produced the chunk earlier cannot have the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2086s"},{"start_seconds":2093,"text":"distance from the other one but also at this time we don't really need this is because of this time we're not applying","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2093s"},{"start_seconds":2101,"text":"it yet so what happens after that is reproducing the block at height H so this was seven this is it right we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2101s"},{"start_seconds":2110,"text":"producing we're producing this block and so now consider the person who who is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2110s"},{"start_seconds":2118,"text":"about to produce nine in the short - when they accepting this block this is when they need to to accept this block","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2118s"},{"start_seconds":2125,"text":"they need to receive a share from every short and so as we send that share for them we also receive a cent so they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2125s"},{"start_seconds":2133,"text":"saying I give you the share of this check in third one so whomever is sending them the share in Changwon is someone who tracks shard one fully they will also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2133s"},{"start_seconds":2141,"text":"send them all the receipts that go from short one - sure - as of after playing block seven of just those just those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2141s"},{"start_seconds":2150,"text":"transactions that are crossed yes the other transactions which specifically customs from one to two years are sending like every transit nothing from that justice just go from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2150s"},{"start_seconds":2158,"text":"one to two are going to be sent as they receive this little share of the block eight right uh and they will apply those receipts as they are applying chunk of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2158s"},{"start_seconds":2167,"text":"eight right because chunk of eight they will learn about it as a part three seeing this block by the time I didn't a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2167s"},{"start_seconds":2174,"text":"fully to look at hiding yeah what so then the block eight cross card","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2174s"},{"start_seconds":2182,"text":"transactions get seven right yeah sure so blocks or block seven cross shard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2182s"},{"start_seconds":2191,"text":"transactions will be a pleasant-looking I know well but notice that the transaction so it might appear as two blocks time but actually it is a one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2191s"},{"start_seconds":2198,"text":"block time because the the transaction itself the transaction itself that produced a seed was applied and I have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2198s"},{"start_seconds":2205,"text":"another color the transaction that produced the receipt was applied approximately here this is when it was applied because it was included at seven","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2205s"},{"start_seconds":2213,"text":"but it was applied before eight this is one that turns the first step of the transaction got applied the second hope got applied here so the time between two","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2213s"},{"start_seconds":2220,"text":"hopes is exactly one block and so if it has another hope you could go to another short it will be applied at the very next height and so because of that if your transaction touches like five","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2220s"},{"start_seconds":2229,"text":"shirts it will be applied in five block time not intend block time yeah which is but then if you have a reversion then it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2229s"},{"start_seconds":2236,"text":"ends up being before it is on this chain so it is completely up to me because if your reversion happens to be as or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2236s"},{"start_seconds":2245,"text":"before this block then the transaction was not even up was not applied initially to begin with if it happens if it the reversion happened to be here between eight and nine then whomever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2245s"},{"start_seconds":2254,"text":"applies like there's not a book it's not here then that would be essentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2254s"},{"start_seconds":2261,"text":"applied in block 11 oh it doesn't matter when it is yeah it might be a point later it might be a plate later but it isn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2261s"},{"start_seconds":2268,"text":"that they said cannot get lost because they see people that's important because you want if you have a chance for reversion and you're looking at then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2268s"},{"start_seconds":2277,"text":"you're looking at block 11 yeah as your like as your finality timeline where you where the picture of finality starts to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2277s"},{"start_seconds":2286,"text":"take hold and then we're looking at you know four blocks or aversion happens you can look at significantly more because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2286s"},{"start_seconds":2294,"text":"reversion can happen let's say within an hour a sir I'm using the question to one hour that constant cousin decided that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2294s"},{"start_seconds":2298,"text":"yeah what is what is tentatively the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2298s"},{"start_seconds":2305,"text":"plan for for epoch life company okay yeah so then a bit effectively it could be that right right okay so so unless","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2305s"},{"start_seconds":2315,"text":"unless it doesn't happens and if you some sort of an exchange or someone who runs every shark you will know that your version will not happen because you're tracking all the shots so unless you've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2315s"},{"start_seconds":2322,"text":"all room happens and assuming that there is no heartbeat skipped recedes take exactly one block right to propagate which is which is pretty good given like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2322s"},{"start_seconds":2330,"text":"the arguments I've provided before for why it is relatively hard to achieve also the atomic because the when you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2330s"},{"start_seconds":2337,"text":"apply this this state route right in the in the chunk at rite-aid it contains the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2337s"},{"start_seconds":2345,"text":"stator that also contains the outgoing receipt route right and so when no matter when you produce the new chunk in the second shot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2345s"},{"start_seconds":2353,"text":"you will always say so let's say it was not produced and was not produced or like I seen and was not produced and tell was not produced and at some point","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2353s"},{"start_seconds":2361,"text":"you're producing at some point you're producing here 11 or whatever when you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2361s"},{"start_seconds":2369,"text":"produce 11 you will say what was the last one I include that wasn't my chard it was 8 and so from starting from 8 for every for every height you will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2369s"},{"start_seconds":2378,"text":"pulling those shares from the from the from the charts that will contain the seeds the other seeds contain the proof against the outgoing received merkel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2378s"},{"start_seconds":2387,"text":"route right and so you there is no way you will not collect all the receipts there is also no way for you to exclude some of them because when you include the receipts ultimately into the chunk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2387s"},{"start_seconds":2395,"text":"everybody can verify that they match the the Merkel route and a deferred right so so timidity is going to it is impossible","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2395s"},{"start_seconds":2404,"text":"not to include adhesive and and its propagate in one block time but but you you've worked up a very important point","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2404s"},{"start_seconds":2412,"text":"which is there are many ways to to start up using this the easiest way is you can get you can start sending to all cert","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2412s"},{"start_seconds":2420,"text":"transactions that all generate receive them to third one right so let's say the block can include hundred transactions right without loss of generality right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2420s"},{"start_seconds":2428,"text":"so everyone can handle hundred transactions so to every every chunk so to every short you some hundred transactions each of each of which will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2428s"},{"start_seconds":2435,"text":"generate a receipt or chart one so at the end of the application of that height chart one is looking at these ten","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2435s"},{"start_seconds":2442,"text":"thousand three seeds going to short one so short one is overbought naturally they cannot apply them all at once I will not be able to tell you the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2442s"},{"start_seconds":2451,"text":"full solution right now it's not me it's Eugene who works on it but on the high level what happens is that there is a queue of those gee seeds so all ten thousand digits actually will go to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2451s"},{"start_seconds":2459,"text":"third one and that will create quite a bit of network overhead on that particular iteration how do you create queue what would be the canonical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2459s"},{"start_seconds":2467,"text":"attestation of time there so so the queue is only maintained by the actual short one right so they receive so it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2467s"},{"start_seconds":2474,"text":"on the first on the first time stamp when that happened they will actually get all the ten thousand digits and it will be it will create some very unfortunate events in the network","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2474s"},{"start_seconds":2482,"text":"because they will have to retrieve quite a bit of data but once they put those 10,000 receipts they sort of say okay guys we we have too much at this point","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2482s"},{"start_seconds":2491,"text":"everybody knows about it it is included in the next chunk they produce and so at that point I think what we do is we just disallow receipts to go to the chart so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2491s"},{"start_seconds":2499,"text":"the transaction which tries to send a seed into the short which has a queue which is too long it will just fail and unroll all the way back but yeah sure so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2499s"},{"start_seconds":2508,"text":"that's a again this is this is not rocket science but also this is not quite ours this is this is quark chains","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2508s"},{"start_seconds":2514,"text":"approach they also do that they they also have the queue and every shirt that has receipts and like we should just add","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2514s"},{"start_seconds":2523,"text":"up to the queue and you get the front from the queue and all of that all those me means behaviors can be proven it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2523s"},{"start_seconds":2531,"text":"it's not easy to prove them but they all cryptographic approvable so you can prove that sheets were added to the queue you can prove that you took the beginning from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2531s"},{"start_seconds":2539,"text":"the queue cool Jean yeah yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2539s"},{"start_seconds":2547,"text":"any questions comments critiques things like that now write down right so we can also talk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2547s"},{"start_seconds":2555,"text":"about adaptive corruption because naturally with only 20 block producers per shirt at that of the corrupting them is is well maybe not evil but clearly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2555s"},{"start_seconds":2563,"text":"doable right and so if there is no if you adaptively corrupt when you block producers then they can apply arbitrary","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2563s"},{"start_seconds":2571,"text":"state transition or make you know they can do quite a bit of damage so so these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2571s"},{"start_seconds":2577,"text":"are naive naively we can say that there is always a fisherman right so near is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2577s"},{"start_seconds":2585,"text":"going to be running every short coin which is gonna be running every short let's say finance is running of yourself so we can we can assume it is always a fisherman in every short and so for as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2585s"},{"start_seconds":2593,"text":"long as data availability is not violated because just like large players that let's track all the transactions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2593s"},{"start_seconds":2602,"text":"all sure yes but that's that's like Mona Eve statement but this is this is this is like the first argument there's gonna be a stronger argument in a second and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2602s"},{"start_seconds":2610,"text":"so and so naive will you expect that for a long as data is available data availability is crucial because if that is not available you can create a valid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2610s"},{"start_seconds":2618,"text":"state transition not distribute the chunk right so nobody can create a challenge but for data it - well well I did availability it's not enough to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2618s"},{"start_seconds":2625,"text":"corrupt a particular chunk so a particular short you need to crap actually more than large percentage of the total population right Wow yeah no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2625s"},{"start_seconds":2634,"text":"you just need book which is just a one chunk right thank you would be enough but they didn't really do it you need to corrupt 30% of the entire set of low produced","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2634s"},{"start_seconds":2644,"text":"okay no across all change because what because those are is because because when you create chunky the shares are going to all the bonuses right so front","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2644s"},{"start_seconds":2652,"text":"but for as long as data availability is there fishermen will work in the practice it will work like in the practice and for for what we're going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2652s"},{"start_seconds":2659,"text":"be launching soon is not going to be the only you know more economic incentives there are for for fishermen right actually fishermen have no economic","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2659s"},{"start_seconds":2666,"text":"incentive the reason for that is that if you create a challenge as a fisherman whomever actually going to be including it into the blog they can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2666s"},{"start_seconds":2675,"text":"always front-run you they will get your challenge and submitted from their name and preventing that from run running if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2675s"},{"start_seconds":2682,"text":"possible you can do some coming to reveal scheme or something like that but it all delays the time to challenge and for challenge you you want it to let as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2682s"},{"start_seconds":2690,"text":"fast as possible like ideally when the invalid block has produced the challenge to be immediately be distributed through the network I know you want the book to be reverted before the next one is even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2690s"},{"start_seconds":2697,"text":"produced right and if there's no that there's no economic incentive then then what what stops people from just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2697s"},{"start_seconds":2706,"text":"challenging every single block and civil attacking them oh no no the challenging it to have a stake in a valid challenge has a flexible behavior but why would I why would I bother challenging if it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2706s"},{"start_seconds":2715,"text":"costs me steak but I earn no reward so so that is that the people who will challenge are gonna be people who have some other people who just like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2715s"},{"start_seconds":2724,"text":"benevolently want the system to be like for example I myself one that's right so as I said like Mir for example who's running the full set or run then that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2724s"},{"start_seconds":2732,"text":"obviously not very good for your run Fisher yeah yeah that's a we categorize personalization you know what but naturally hypothetical coinbase if they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2732s"},{"start_seconds":2740,"text":"least Mir they have a very strong incentive for an imbalance at initial not to go through crises like you also use the example of Finance and and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2740s"},{"start_seconds":2749,"text":"would I would actually flip that and and this could be applied to not necessarily buying a book but but any others where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2749s"},{"start_seconds":2759,"text":"finance has inherently a very large financial incentive to break near lapsim right over here but by not admitting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2759s"},{"start_seconds":2768,"text":"change they're not doing much damage here we can we can just sure but why wouldn't they just then submit challenges incessantly and like invalid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2768s"},{"start_seconds":2779,"text":"change yeah and because every mother challenge will slash them invalid challenge puts money right so so what a malicious actor can try to do is they can they can fit an invalid state","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2779s"},{"start_seconds":2788,"text":"transition and after decade is no valid state transition they can sacrifice a lot of stake and start spamming with invalid challenges so that the ballot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2788s"},{"start_seconds":2795,"text":"challenge doesn't go to that is first of all very expensive but second of all the idea is that every invalid challenge does delays the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2795s"},{"start_seconds":2802,"text":"the time and kill ballot can go through and so like that that's that's one way to adjust it I didn't think too much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2802s"},{"start_seconds":2810,"text":"about it maybe there's some issues with that but submitting invalid challenges for an hour at every block is extremely expansion generally I would want to think about this further but don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2810s"},{"start_seconds":2819,"text":"really I there there would be some concern with just imbalance and economic","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2819s"},{"start_seconds":2826,"text":"incentives and like if you only have if you only have fishermen who are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2826s"},{"start_seconds":2832,"text":"inherently benevolent in the system then you know then you may only get a certain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2832s"},{"start_seconds":2841,"text":"type of challenge you may not get the whole breadth of challenges right but again as I said that's it that's a sort of naive solution that's all we're going to have one go launch because in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2841s"},{"start_seconds":2850,"text":"expectation of what you will try to break anywhere near in the first year or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2850s"},{"start_seconds":2856,"text":"so so so far so far there's a box of ridiculous extent were we're living in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2856s"},{"start_seconds":2864,"text":"block chains for years without being quote so because like the sophistication of that like is actually pretty big you need to first of all you need to adapt to any craft an entire chart which is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2864s"},{"start_seconds":2873,"text":"doable but it is expensive right you actually do need to pay the state because 2020 block producers will be slashed yeah right so you actually do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2873s"},{"start_seconds":2880,"text":"need to pay 20 what producers their stake second of all you do need to ensure that not a single fisherman will challenge right so yeah like a need to maybe show","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2880s"},{"start_seconds":2889,"text":"that coinbase doesn't show engineer doesn't challenge whoever else doesn't shell a child yeah it's a very expensive attack which is which has very little","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2889s"},{"start_seconds":2897,"text":"chance of actually going to right so but but would you have a better solution so first of all let's actually quickly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2897s"},{"start_seconds":2905,"text":"quickly talk about how how a theorem shows it and why we do not do the same so the way idiom shows it is they say like why is our epoch half a day and an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2905s"},{"start_seconds":2912,"text":"etherium can shuffle every six minutes is because in a theorem the validating node does not need to have the state and an ear it does need to have a state and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2912s"},{"start_seconds":2920,"text":"the difference is that in a theorem the block when it is distributed or like what would be a chunk in our case it has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2920s"},{"start_seconds":2927,"text":"it has witnesses it has sufficient it has Merkel proofs of this state that before the transaction after the transaction ready and those witnesses","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2927s"},{"start_seconds":2936,"text":"they actually make looks quite a bit bigger they make the murder of magnitude bigger and so that's that's the main reason why we don't do that because increasing by an order of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2936s"},{"start_seconds":2944,"text":"magnitude amount of traffic is actually quite expensive but what what they allow to do they actually they actually give you a ridiculous level of security","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2944s"},{"start_seconds":2951,"text":"because because of that of corruption becomes practically impossible it's practically impossible to corrupt within six minutes or like whatever is the time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2951s"},{"start_seconds":2960,"text":"like someone could argue like you know like some like your your fellow stop and decrypt will be obviously arguing that that is that is not secure its but six","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2960s"},{"start_seconds":2969,"text":"six minutes for all practical purposes adaptive corruption is impossible but in here because we don't want to send witnesses with every block we do need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2969s"},{"start_seconds":2976,"text":"have the full state and unloading the full stay for a short takes quite a while right and so therefore we do need to have longer epoch left so what do we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2976s"},{"start_seconds":2983,"text":"do what we plan to do for the fight adaptive corruption is we want to have the second role which we call validators there are two reasons why we don't do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2983s"},{"start_seconds":2992,"text":"anything with main net one is that they actually will take quite a bit of time to build right so that would easily delays for another year or so but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=2992s"},{"start_seconds":3000,"text":"second reason is that we're just not going to have enough I mean we're not a stealing wouldn't watch we just not gonna have enough people who run near to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3000s"},{"start_seconds":3008,"text":"have such to know that there's a way to make what I will describe any meaningful right but the idea is that you have blood producers so blood producers we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3008s"},{"start_seconds":3015,"text":"have on the order of 200 producers those unknown you know you know which blood producers produce work for which charge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3015s"},{"start_seconds":3023,"text":"their schedule is known then they add up to the corruptible there's a larger set of validators so as the column validators","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3023s"},{"start_seconds":3030,"text":"and so this is a significantly larger so ideally you would you would want to have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3030s"},{"start_seconds":3038,"text":"well as many as you can you know like you want to have as many validators per chart as as possible oh yeah and here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3038s"},{"start_seconds":3046,"text":"what is important is that you don't know which validator is relating which are good validator is doing is that when deepak starts the validator so this is let's look from perspective of a single","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3046s"},{"start_seconds":3055,"text":"validator they're running their effort and the vrf will give them a bit mask over or a subset of shirts and so so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3055s"},{"start_seconds":3062,"text":"fact is the you're only be recognized in in a way that will give you precisely like let's say five shirts so let's say we want every ball the data to validate exactly pie chart so they're only we don't have to get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3062s"},{"start_seconds":3071,"text":"exactly five short and so they locally know which arts do validating but nobody else does so what they do is that when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3071s"},{"start_seconds":3078,"text":"they receive a block so this is a block right they'd unload the chunks from the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3078s"},{"start_seconds":3084,"text":"shore to the validate they validate them and if they all valid they they sign on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3084s"},{"start_seconds":3092,"text":"the block right and so how exactly what cumulate signatures we will discuss in a second but they sign on the block and if at least one transaction is not valid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3092s"},{"start_seconds":3100,"text":"they commit to do that book being invalid right or so so for simplicity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3100s"},{"start_seconds":3109,"text":"let's say that they create a message and that message either says yay and so yay means you know I validate all my charts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3109s"},{"start_seconds":3117,"text":"and my charts are good or it says nay and it contains the challenge and so then they can meet within the next ten","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3117s"},{"start_seconds":3125,"text":"blocks or like some number of block doesn't matter how many within the next ten blocks they commit to this message and then within the next that many blocks they need to reveal the message","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3125s"},{"start_seconds":3133,"text":"right cool so what happens next is if if a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3133s"},{"start_seconds":3141,"text":"particular but they don't get anything if the right right on that challenge what about the challenge me so validators they just get constant reward","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3141s"},{"start_seconds":3148,"text":"sure so a validator at the end of the e-book just for being a valid if they get constant award which is dependent on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3148s"},{"start_seconds":3155,"text":"how many times they committed a slash revealed all the only reveal you know you also only reveal in fact but they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3155s"},{"start_seconds":3164,"text":"get like we always do yeah if whether they whether they challenged or not they get the same they get the same do next and do next step right so next time so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3164s"},{"start_seconds":3173,"text":"this is like why you know why bother the challenge no they do not share you see they it's it's not an option for them to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3173s"},{"start_seconds":3180,"text":"send or not to send became that that can mean they have to send it in it is a done something to me they don't get your word for that particular height so at every height they will either commit to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3180s"},{"start_seconds":3188,"text":"a or to or to the challenge right so so effectively your question is not well why bother sending challenge it your question is more like why not why not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3188s"},{"start_seconds":3196,"text":"just always submit yeah yeah so what happens is what happens is that an actual challenge arrives if an actual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3196s"},{"start_seconds":3204,"text":"challenge does happen and you're wrong then then every blog producer than everybody but here's the thing because we don't know which arts de validating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3204s"},{"start_seconds":3211,"text":"it could be so you imagine that there and I not find out what charts they're validating by knowing what chunks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3211s"},{"start_seconds":3218,"text":"they're downloading so yes or by not by analyzing Network you can you can try to deduce it so the idea would be to like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3218s"},{"start_seconds":3226,"text":"the idea for such a block producer is to keep their account which signs independent from the node that training so like you can identify that a particular node of the network is done","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3226s"},{"start_seconds":3235,"text":"loading particular chunks but you don't know like like ideal you don't know the developer should try to conceal you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3235s"},{"start_seconds":3243,"text":"like effectively sent sent your sent your sent your challenges from a different IP address then we could","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3243s"},{"start_seconds":3250,"text":"enforce it it would be great if we find a way to enforce them in some way to note because obviously if they use the same machine to send to send the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3250s"},{"start_seconds":3258,"text":"signatures and to accumulate rank zaniest and then they can easily be a tribute to base our monitors network if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3258s"},{"start_seconds":3265,"text":"you don't have any immediate questions that you want to look at right now I would motion to cut this now I got a run","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3265s"},{"start_seconds":3275,"text":"to my next meeting yeah we only add yeah until 11:30 anyways imagine you've got a whole bunch of stuff to do but do you have any like last questions or comments or things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3275s"},{"start_seconds":3284,"text":"that you want to go over or or maybe no no no but I want to think about it a little more and then probably look","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3284s"},{"start_seconds":3291,"text":"either email you or message if you have one more minute I can I think so what happens here is that at the end of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3291s"},{"start_seconds":3298,"text":"day if any challenge goes through then all the block producers all the validators they need to reveal their mask they wanted they committed tobe devera they can either today at the beginning","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3298s"},{"start_seconds":3307,"text":"of a poke right and so then in the mask you can see if they were supposed to produce here or the challenge so whether they have to reveal their mask and they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3307s"},{"start_seconds":3314,"text":"have to reveal what they committed to right and so if they this is the only place for being a flying can check and slash it because if you don't reveal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3314s"},{"start_seconds":3322,"text":"your mask within like next five books you get slashed right because your because we need to see we need to see if you were supposed to challenge or not right so so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3322s"},{"start_seconds":3331,"text":"effectively when the challenge is review you must evil your mask which either need to have zero in the support in the in the English our dog that's that get challenged or it means to get one but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3331s"},{"start_seconds":3338,"text":"you but you're coming should before the challenge is about right an attacker would probably wait to like to attack","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3338s"},{"start_seconds":3349,"text":"the network and try to force validators offline until there's but we can give it a very long period of time for you to read you like a factor we just sing it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3349s"},{"start_seconds":3358,"text":"like an analogy we can make it completely unbounded we can say your stickers look until you really like effective for you to get your stake back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3358s"},{"start_seconds":3366,"text":"your your your instating transaction just need to include that that information that would be yeah oh yeah and so yeah there's a Nash equilibrium","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3366s"},{"start_seconds":3373,"text":"where all the pollinators agree to always sigue right but but for love the twist one of them sends challenges everybody who said could you not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3373s"},{"start_seconds":3381,"text":"validate tell me to to a and it was a challenge they will get slashed right and so ah and so now that everybody like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3381s"},{"start_seconds":3387,"text":"says yeah and the Challenger and the Challenger who challenges even if they're challenged incorrectly could I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3387s"},{"start_seconds":3396,"text":"mean everybody gets wet Enquirer ever well not necessarily not if if more than two-thirds are saying yeah it doesn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3396s"},{"start_seconds":3404,"text":"matter how many said yeah because the moment challenge got into the network they they the moment challenge landed into into the blockchain and and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3404s"},{"start_seconds":3411,"text":"challenges they included in the on the on the top level into the blocks at that moment for you to get your stake back you have to provide a prove that you did","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3411s"},{"start_seconds":3419,"text":"not commit to a right so you would not be able to get your stake back without if you commit a PA on an invalid chunk you will never be able to get your stake","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3419s"},{"start_seconds":3428,"text":"back so effectively at this last on an invalid junk right yeah but but effectively two-thirds can validate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3428s"},{"start_seconds":3434,"text":"validate a chunk with yay oh no this the validity of shank is not defined by how many people endorsed it the validity of chunk is defined very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3434s"},{"start_seconds":3443,"text":"very strict rules so so a challenge can say it doesn't matter it could be the hundred percent of people or like a hundred percent minus one people on signed on it but the challenge will just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3443s"},{"start_seconds":3452,"text":"say hi guys this is the priests a truth this is the post-dated that they signed up on this isn't of transactions apply them for yourself and see and see that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3452s"},{"start_seconds":3459,"text":"it doesn't apply and at that point we actually do do status validation so actually do sell the witnesses for all the for the state before and after and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3459s"},{"start_seconds":3467,"text":"people can actually apply them without the loading state so we do have the technical material which is music on every block and that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3467s"},{"start_seconds":3475,"text":"technique actually is implemented so hidden abilities are not implemented but the but the stateless validation is implemented yeah cool okay thank you all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3475s"},{"start_seconds":3483,"text":"right guys cool cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag&t=3483s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=tDeb0LACCag","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/tDeb0LACCag"}