{"id":"pN7p45b_yvU","title":"Fungible Token Standard clarity","description":"We'll clarify some concerns with the fungible token standard, NEP-141, particularly in regards to storage.","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2021-01-29T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/pN7p45b_yvU/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"okay cool you i i think you tried to say how about now but it's a robot i can't hear you eugene okay cool so i'll i'll keep trying to see what's going on through albert he's i think he's gotta update his client or something else is strange um but i think we can get going with this so we're mainly here to talk about and clarify some some stuff i'm glad we're all joining because i think what's happening is we're all actually on the same page but it's really hard to do the github discussions and just it's way better to just meet up and talk like this um and so we're getting like super close to i think the end here the fungible token standard which is great i had a meeting this morning where the non-fungible token standard is also like really hot uh right now and people are actively talking about that so this is good momentum we have and i believe like uh the point that is most important to clarify is like who pays for the storage when you add a new person to a fungible can we list all the the top the questions and topics because i have just to make sure we're on the same page here okay did you have a list that you wanted to go over i have a different screen that i was going to start with but it sounds like you got something ready well i can give you my list and then see if it if it adds to your list okay obviously hey robert hey hey robert it's good to see everyone's faces here um okay so on on my list obviously the one was the um should we allow other users to register your your account for you all right so that's one i want to go over the other one is the escrow storage fees should that be defined in the standard you know but that's at the topic um yeah i think that yeah just those two those are the two main ones i wanted to what was on your list mike yeah that's a good point i we haven't talked about the escrow so um i oh i forgot i had one more cool the um right i'm just looking at my notes here the account setup um so when registering should we allow a message argument right to specify the purpose there being to specify the let's say the different types of accounts you know basic bronze golds whatever uh maybe some setup so that so three topics so did you have anything else on your list yeah that's good and actually we can go around it if anyone else that's a good idea and thanks al like does anyone else have ideas they want to cover before i dive into what i was kind of going to start off with right i was like thinking about like you know this this this whole concept about spamming spamming protection so registering someone's else account um and these kinds of things right uh if how if you would like to make it optional and how to deal with a standard level under the interface level okay cool and that's one and maybe some second thing could be like i could talk about later i was like thinking about um authorization codes so the authorization code would allow you to um like instead of me paying for my account i would use some other token and someone else will register me yes and change me from for that using some other service so typically yes that could go into a use case where some service provider would like some to register or would like to let someone else register register the user and pay for it yeah i think that's going to be extremely important um to allow that to happen uh so i think we can start there i made this like really quick kind of photoshop thing that i want to just start off with because i think this may help untangle some things and i apologize that this is like super obvious already but i think it's fine to start with obvious and you know move from there just to make sure we're all on the same page so i'm going to be sharing this screen here um what we're kind of looking at is sort of an off chain side and on chain side and you know if there's an n right in the middle there then that means that we're attaching near so this first uh scenario is kind of walking through alice wants to um register uh their account onto like let's say that's a die like a fungible token and we already see that mike.nir is on there and he has like 19 fungible tokens so alice is going to attach some near to register uh their account alice is added to the fungible token ledger they're pretty darn straightforward um alice let's say is like really happy with this she's like buying art on this and tells like her friend bob all about it and bob's like wow i really wish i could do this i don't really know that blockchain stuff very much so for christmas uh alice wants to give bob you know the ability to to do this and and give bob some some fungible tokens so alice is allowed to attach near for bob's account and that will like all be fine the end result bob.nier has 25 merry christmas and now is able to buy some art do whatever so a bob's account is added and he goes hog wild and uses all those fungible tokens and now bob uh has zero fungible tokens here and so he's like okay that that's cool that was fun i really appreciate that um now i'm i'm actually more interested in a different fungible token i'm not super into dying anymore i'm all about like ample um so thank you for doing that i'm i'm gonna take off now and alice says oh well you know in that case i would like to you know reclaim the storage that i paid for you but that will not work so alice cannot like reclaim the storage for bob only bob can can reclaim that so this red arrow just kind of indicates that like alice is trying to send a transaction saying like hey by the way give me that give me that storage back and it's it's that's not going to work and so uh she tells bob like hey i i know that you're not really interested in this fungible token anymore but if you want to get some you know near back so you can have some bunch of transactions for free basically then all you got to do is this little cli command and you'll get your your uh storage back that i initially paid for you so bob does this bob successfully just does you know teeny little cli command and succeeds at uh withdrawing storage and the end result of that is now uh bob is removed from it from the fungible token ledger so that is basically i think like a really cheesy example that shows kind of all the different steps and the way that i have like my mental model of all of this is this uh is this pretty clear it's it's clear um i mean i have some different ideas about this but um should should we talk about the the allowing alice to register uh who was it bob yeah bob yeah can i and i know i raised some security concerns it's more than just just spamming and let me show my screens i put something together too i might do that always um i'll i'll make you uh i'll make you a host and i think that'll let you do this actually i'll try to make a co-host because i want to make sure that nothing gets messed up on the stream so there should be like a all right screen right now now now it showed up cool yeah so just in general right um i mean it's that's a nice uh feature to allow other users to register you i mean it's it's it's definitely we want to support that but we in my opinion we need to support that securely the fact that the open web is open makes it very um vulnerable right and i'll i'll use this as an example the i'll use the the project i'm working on as an example the stake token right so let's say okay the user registers this is the legit the valid contract and app that the user is using now some some malicious uh actor uh sees my sees this tech account has a i don't know let's let's just pretend it's a very it's a it holds billions of dollars of assets it makes millions of dollars a transaction just just hypothetically so it's going to invite it's going to invite the people to try to to that honey pot right just like a bank right the bank robber is always trying to break into the bank so you want to make it as hard as possible now on the on the open web i can all that data on the state contract i can create a stake create a contract that looks very similar it's almost has to say i can get pretty much all the data um that i need to present to the user to make it look like it looks pretty current matter of fact i can look up my look up your account balance simulate everything maybe entice you trick you into saying you know what we just migrated over or somehow and trick you instead of using this entry point just a different entry point and they got you and that that's the that's the besides getting the fact of getting spam the biggest security hole here is you're getting tricked into using a contract that you never registered with right they they can come in pull your see what see a counselor registered there pull your information query it load it up into the into the fake into that scam contract and then hook you in all right and that's and that's and that's just a very simple example but that's that's what my concern is being open is in an ideal world where everyone is is placed nice is great problem is that that's not that's not how the real world works right the real world is everyone's always trying to pick your pocket trying to trick you trying to scam you and and and to pretend to make it you know just to say that it's too complex to do it let's not do it well that's you're gonna get a lot of bad publicity in my opinion can you hear me now yes okay cool um so registration will not prevent it you can design a contract that will accept funds but do not require registration that will mimic the the g app and the scam so the standard itself that will not at least solve this particular case so i i have thought about this because i so even so it's a valid concern and like fishing and like scam will still be there i don't think we can prevent it by restricting registration so well if i see this is if there's a check with this here if if i can distinguish right that the contract that i'm interested i can do run some validations right you you can still do did i register did i register for this for this i didn't register it i didn't register for this uh my account at the chase manhattan bank what are you talking about you can do the same validation it is the standard yeah but if i have the ability to know to check did i register this account or or let's say okay i can check to see if this person registered for me do i trust this person is this person on a blacklist can i have some questions please uh mike can you can you go back to the first first first slide please or your presentation yeah well take take mike you need to stop sharing some i can share oh okay oh cool it worked yeah thanks so so as as far as i understand this this process is needed because uh we want to claim the storage back from the from the smart contract this is correct yes sorry how much is the cost what's the what's the practical cost we are talking about in the us dollars today depends on the contract i mean for f this is this is not meant just for fungible token this is meant right this is the actual i understand can you can we can you give me like one number that i understand if it's sense or tense um like on my on my contract it would cost roughly the price of near today about 30 cents 30 cents okay that's uh that's a cost yeah so for the basic fungible token let's say you have 64 bytes for the account and then you just need a balance which is another 16 bytes plus 40 for the key so it's around 2 cents two cents yeah i mean just for a vanilla what a contract created from a from a factory yeah single single balance but yeah there is this this update right that the storage cost will be reduced by 100 times well i don't think we're gonna go 200 but it potentially can be reduced yes over time but at the same time near price might grow so it will be in a ballpark is the amount of bites is is uh it's like uh 100 bytes or something so for the basic fungible token yes it's around 100 bytes yeah so i i think that it's so small amount that if if we need to uh start thinking are we wasting this amount and who can claim it back near has a crater problem and there's no point even discuss about this because if if if a user can't do a transaction that writes 100 bytes to a blockchain the blockchain is dead in the first place i would just ignore the problem and have whoever whoever has the tokens can always claim it back and uh so this is so it doesn't matter this is the second problem that what which is like an escrow of the asset and like we can focus on this that problem if you decide whether someone else can register your account or not which is what uh else is talking about is his security concern yeah but yeah yeah yeah and the second question is that or it's us ux is so that uh the users expect that they can just send stuff to somebody they are not going to for hopes and looks like who registers the accounts it should be built into transfer function at least in the ux ux layer if nothing else yeah because otherwise it's too complicated for the users yeah i agree yeah that's my my main idea like if we go too restrictive in order for security concerns then we will prevent some very valid use cases one of them is developer wanna provide tokens for their users on their contract without having to confirm this transaction another is what mika said just in a wallet you want to send to someone who doesn't have this account yet it would be lame if you say like oh yeah this dude cannot receive your tokens because he's not on the contract now like today if you you would get a link saying let's say on paypal someone someone to send you some funds you get a link you need to register i mean people are you people people today are used to they expect people people need to have a near account but they don't need to create a company token that's just insane right so so let me just show you that if and if you look if if you look history if you look ethereum tokens uh that we have a lot much bigger problem of people not being able to receive their tokens than with the spam tokens you get some spam but it's you get much more problems with the users that can't wait to talk about their metabolism yeah spam is one concern but that's that's um the bigger concern is theft that's that's where you're tricked into someone's stealing from you this is not going to prevent it because because they can still be tricked to given out their private keys they're like one thousands of ways to trick users and this is not going to stop it yeah i think well you're never going to stop it but if you make it too easy it's going to attract more p more malicious actors right yeah but you're do you like your house you are not going to trick anyone because you don't have uses so yeah maybe i'll give you the idea may i just say something so so um so firstly yes i mean uh i'm a supporter for the for the whole thing about the account registration and uh like having the ability to um let a service pay for the user for the registration so when i was thinking about it um i came up with this uh authorization code so what is an authorization code with regards to the registration so you just user can register himself as we like the basic way right so we agree that you know it's a little bit less intuitive but how about if you know a service provider will generate registration codes so this is on the on the chain this will be stored as basically hashes of that codes then i'm sending you a link or whatever maybe in the email and like a transaction whatever a link which will basically generate a transaction in the tab that the link will contain the authorization code and the user basically registered himself and he only need to pay the gas fee for the transaction which could be even returned for him yes uh so uh so that was like my idea to solve yes and and that that's that's a big improvement because like this the the the user knows can verify um and has has knowledge of when this is happening there could be a reason in the in the email right so so practically how i see that it will work is that you know he receives by email the link is basically a link to that app so it will have a clear url yeah so user can always verify it like in any case how we are doing with images whenever you click on the email you need to on the link from the email you need to check the url right it doesn't have https so for and so so yes and all these things so um so security of the wallet is completely separate concern like from i mean you you still need to like at the final moment when you do a transfer even if you're tricked like through email you go through a wallet that hurts your funds so this moment the wallet should do like extra steps to to prevent it and like transfer of funds is like one of them the wallet in fact and that's like a big feature request highly anticipated wallet should provide in for more information about transaction authorization not only the amount of of near but also like what transaction was the was the account so yeah one thing is like when you send near to unknown address it can show it to you and which will prevent a lot of scam because like if you've never interacted with this account it will be a warning on the on a like on on the wallet side when you approve this transaction right but i mean like here we should really shift like all these concerns to the wallet i mean most of these concerns right we need to have like the right api so the wallet i mean we we can provide the service to the user but like most of the security concerns um so from yeah so that's why if we design this to restrictive which means a user cannot receive a token without first interacting with the token it will probably create huge problems for certain use cases on the other end if you allow to create this it it brings issue of you should you will be able to interact with this contract as you already registered with this contract so in this case you kind of can be tricked to like send tokens to this contract because you already pre-registered with this contract but if even if you don't have an ability to do this this scam contract can still receive your assets because the scam contract does not have to follow the standard it can mimic it as much as possible to look like it follows the standard but it actually does not require you to ever register manually so yeah i i think too like security seems like just not i don't i don't see how we could possibly fully have it security in the standard like so what i've got highlighted here is the code hash so you know similarly to where like you probably don't want to be putting your life savings into a contract that has a full access key you're going to be able you're going to want to check hey does this contract like this defy contract like someone can they just drain all my funds so you want to like check that so you can check that with near cli in the same way you have the code hash where someone can look at your open source um fungible token contract and they can hash it and you know this is like you know see what the hash is does this match okay then we know that for sure this is exactly the same like contract as them um like kind of furthermore on this i do think that like maybe this discussion is more in line with like token curated registries that would appear on things like wallet so like you know like a tiny little example of this is um maybe someone follows the standard except for they're greedy and they want that two cents you know they want so that when someone tries to unregister their account instead of sending the the the storage costs to the user uh you know what i'm just gonna keep it well we could have like a little um we could we could like automate this where um if someone wants to get their token on this like kind of approved list then it will go through operations and make sure that the you know behavior is what is expected and if you fail then you're not on the list and if you pass then you are in the list so i think there's a couple things here people have to you know make it known that they don't have access keys on there they have to make it known what their source code is which can be verified by the code hash and they if they want to get on lists that show that they're you know even further approved then they have to like abide by that standard yeah that's it right right but that but that those are separate security concerns right um this is fraud i'm talking about fraud someone trying to um to kanye right we have to yeah you know we might get a lot of users um initially but as soon as there's a lot of fraud guess what number one you're going to pull in regulation the government's going to come in and say they're going to lock this down we have to think long term if we don't put in measures to make this as secure as possible you we're just welcoming the government to step in and say there's too much fraud going on here and we have to regulate it if we don't regulate it ourselves guess what a big big government will regulate it for us so we have to be careful so the example where like that ul pointed out can be let's say i have a unislope app and i have a scam unislope app and i have a valid die contract so what you're trying to prevent is um you go to a wallet and you're like trying to interact with a unislope app and this unislope app is like a fake unisop app so the wallet can potentially somehow look at the registration and see that you haven't registered for the fake unisop app and you're trying to send dye tokens to you and yourself even so you own this guy and you interacted with that before and this is where registration would potentially show you that well you actually didn't register yourself for the new unison app and that's why you shouldn't be able to send tokens there like it would fail but it can be done like with other measurements right right right you haven't personally registered with this union swap because you don't have a transaction that's provides some measure right yeah but all i'm saying is if we don't regulate ourselves someone else will it's just a matter of time yeah well it would be great if you get this attention it's near because right now you don't want this kind of attention well i understand but it's like still far from happening and decentralization should protect there we want a reputation that we put security first um we you know if it would say security first visit give a hardware wallet for everybody that's that would solve it but even hardware doesn't solve anything the longest like i know you cannot see the target anyway so so and i'm not sure what the what you know i mean i'm just raising the point it's it's just that keep making it wide open i think is long it may seem easy short term but it's just opening that back it's leaving the back door open for that for um forget about the robber coming in for uh the gestapo to come in and and and uh the feds coming in okay you know right now i see if security like fraud is the main concern i don't think this measure actually prevents it and makes it that much harder like like there's no you you can be tricked in accepting registration and different standards and stuff like this so well i'm pretty sure let's let's say you called up in front of congress and they say so did you think about this security did you think about putting any security measures in you know it's completely wide open why did you leave everything completely wide open oh and how do you respond to that in front of a con when a senator is interrogating you uh this is off topic you have to focus on that yeah what's your yeah that's what i just i'm raising those points you know i mean it's really it comes down to the community um but that's like i said it's we're gonna have a difference of opinion i'm i'm i have a strong opinion on this one and well i'm pretty sure we can have a separate standard that's saying oh i wanna actually only personal registration so like this can be restricted or like secure token standard so just prevent register by someone else and it can panic and just it just works this way uh it may face like different i mean the individual contracts can be can be much more secure than the standard right can always add more security yeah that's what i'm saying that's that's for sure so let's move to the second problem so as mika pointed out the escrow amount we're talking about in this standard is probably which which is main point of the standard right now is to unblock functional token so the amount is fairly low and we probably shouldn't care about escrow because escrow will increase the amount of bytes and complicate the implementation so let's skip let's keep it working that whose account it is then they claim the tokens yeah i would say don't put it in the standard but again the contract can decide if they want to escrow it right also speaking of that um i had a good call with people who were talking about the nft standard and brought something up where i mean especially nfts this makes a lot of sense because you know there are nfts for you know art that may have like royalties and you know all this stuff and then there's nfts for like subscriptions that won't really have realities necessarily and there's all these different kind of like you do whatever you want with an nft and um now we're talking about a few different like add-ons right to like standards on top of the base standard for fungible tokens and it makes me wonder if we want to have some sort of like field that's like hey by the way this fungible token implements this and this um so that folks can know what to expect uh from from this does that does that does that make sense yeah this would tie into the metadata so the final the final question that we still need to discuss is ability to register different types of accounts as part of the standard so um i i thought a little more about this and i feel you if you have ability to register different types of account to change the storage associated with the account then you would need to have ability to upgrade your account or you register to a new type which creates complication towards this particular standard that's supposed to solve one simple use case and i would suggest to move this type of registration to a separate standard in case it's needed because it needs to put months out about like upgradability and i have a pattern that will likely occur and this is yeah that's good good point i i thought about that as well it does that because you want to be able to upgrade you might need to add add more funds depending on the use case yeah so the example of this let's say we have some kind of pre-allocated space for 10 kilobytes but occasionally maybe you need to increase your storage so let's say you have your personal account there and you just want to be able to control the amount of tokens that you pre-allocated foster right but i don't think this should be a part of the standard like i would like to keep it like a minimum yeah yeah that's what we i think we all agree on this so we're dropping the message and you know like what kind of a problem you try to solve here right we try to solve like the basic like onboarding yeah and we want yourself i mean not on this side we would need to like change the runtime if you would like to abstract and i thought after it uh i'm going to correct my blog i think there's a task for it to let someone else pay for the transactions currently uh each signer has to pay for the transaction so he has to have an a year so um finally let's say we change or plan to change the storage cost and you follow the standard how should the contract react assuming it can figure out the registration cost so let's say you bought storage at more expensive price then we dropped the price you will be refunded at cheaper price if the contract knows about this i think that's right i mean you would you would track i mean whatever you deposit you would pay going to an escrow account so that's when i mean so this this is extra bytes that like yeah no i mean we agree yeah we agree we don't we i think i i think we can do it basically like using the indexer of chain because this is in the best interest of the service provider no i mean let's say i'm designing a fungible token standard right and should i hardcore the price of storage or let's say there's an ability to update it either through a host method as you want but you know if you will do this kind of a tracing mechanism it's not a contract it would be more expensive of course right right but i i think this should be optional because at the end of the day we could do it like all the analysis often using the indexer and again at the best interest of the of the of the service provider to give back the um unused tokens like i could make i mean if i want to be bad guy i could just you know whatever is the standard i would say okay i don't care about it yeah whoever faced me i will i will so cool so so let's summarize so far we basically go with the ability to register account for someone else and that puts we don't require to track escrow like you can personally do this as a contract and then only the account owner can unregister it there is a method force which will forfeit all the balances on this contract if there is any i think we are changing this right now not a parameter force we are burning right first i i like force than just burn because it again well this is not specific to fungible tokens right okay okay fair enough um and we go for the prefix of ar i already updated it so what about naming do you like just ar register or register account is there any strong preference i like just to register i like short i mean in i'm like from the you know like a cam where things should be easy to read short and like fit in the screen of 96 characters and we go for is registered right ar is registered register ai and register ar is registered and then you have a our registration fee right okay or um if you want to make it even shorter ar registered i mean but doesn't matter i think it was a different no no it's for is registered versus registered yeah it will be close to register okay i mean this is like that's fine yeah okay um and we say that both register and unregister are payable right so what do we do not unregister right our register requires exactly one yak 10 year to unregister so it cannot be called through okay thank you so um right how okay so i mean i don't think we we we have a consensus here so for the registration for the register method do we want to that anyone can register anyone or not yes yes man i vote no but i'm outlawed i'm also against the but you know but i would prefer like we have this authorization code for this kind of a mechanism i think we can follow up on a new proposal if you want to do this i as for jasper from flux he also votes for yes but he's not on the call today you mean to allow everyone registering everyone yeah if we bring down the cost it will be like fairly small so it will be like less than a cent right now from most of the use cases so still um it would prevent spam and like survivability of the contract by the way did anyone made a benchmark recently about like what's the cost of the or after maybe in your contract how much is the cost of the stakehold stake token transaction transfer in terms of gas yes um about on average about um 45 tera gifts that's because you're doing you're doing the call right it's because it's doing the correspondence yeah yep and it's doing behind it's triggering behind the scenes calls and yes the way like funchable talking basic transfer it fits under five tera gas um of the actual compute guest so the the function call itself is about 2.5 jar i guess so you you you think like it probably less but i'm i'm using this number right now in in my mind so 45 teragast is 0.45 near right but no fungible token will be seven point five tera gas or less like i think five cherry gas probably can fit uh but forty five tera guys is zero point forty five zero point forty five year isn't it no it's multiplied by the gas price gas price is 10 in 19 or 18. i don't remember like the the the terra gas of gas is 10 12 in by by a hundred billion it's billion so it's 10 in uh 21 21. let's see the current gas price a minute as long as it stays under 10 cents so that means that the nearest uh competitive with other blockchains so if it goes up then there's nothing smaller yeah so the gas price is actually 100 million which is 10 and 18 or 10 10 and 8 plus 12 for the terra gas so you get about 7.5 multiplied by 10 and 20 which gives you um so one tier i guess is like one byte of storage pretty much if it's easier to compute this way one thermal gas is 1 by 7.5 multiplied by ten into one power of twenty divided by ten power of twenty four gives us less than so it's 7.5 10 000 of a year so which okay so five uh e minus four right so so it's point one and five year or dollar or cents so it's like less than a cent in the center you can send six transfers okay so not bad that's very good i also want to make sure we circle back on like the metadata too because it seems like correct me if i'm wrong but there's kind of like this the base standard for fungible token and then this account registration and then metadata and possibly a third one that's like for us adding escrows to yours because i feel like people coming from other blockchains are going to be and there's still good use cases for escrows does that summarize all the things we need to wrap up for the finalized finalized uh standard what do you mean by escrows i mean because we don't have s-curves in um that's not part of the standard that's right yeah i guess like an add-on to finish the metadata standard so we need to start the proposal which will take the what robert suggested in his uh there's the extensions we talked about too like the ability to burn i mean oh yes yeah but those are extensive yeah the extensions are separate later yeah so we need to only finalize the metadata for the token and okay i can start the discussion right after the call about them yeah thanks robert and uh yeah let's update the discussion to reflect that the latest um proposal nice yeah i mean i think it'd be great if we could even finish this by like you know a week from today like you know i'd love to i'd love to see this go forward quick and it seems like it is going that fast but that's kind of like my hope um for this okay any final comments i would say no there's nothing related to this but um and i think i put it in the post maybe something to consider is to put if we're going to be actively working on standards maybe put something on the calendar to have because you know instead of spending going back days you know yeah to to come to a consensus or a decision we can make these decisions weekly i like that does does this time work uh for everyone or is it was this a kind of an exception this i i can make this work friday three p.m usually works it's 10 p.m on friday for me so it's not alphabet okay yeah okay i forget where where are you located robert switzerland so it's now it's almost 10 as well yeah i've i'm in the eastern time zone i'm in new york state uh i think are you are you at the west coast right here and yeah mike and eugene i think we can make it work like maybe like two or three hours earlier uh would that work for you al at noon yeah i'm usually open at noon so like nine our time eastern time so yeah robert what what's the time for you like this well you know it depends i mean we can we can keep the same time to be honest usually i should be available we can also move to a different day of the week a friday people want to like take evenings off um so miko you don't you would like to have it earlier right yeah it would make my life easier okay like what time was the latest time uh i can do like 6 p.m like four hours before now okay we can talk about that let's see it works for me there's maybe some conflict on friday for this time but yeah i mean yeah that's depends oh that's eight eight a.m okay eight time works fine for me if we could do it one hour later that'd be great because actually there's a nft meeting at that time weekly now does that work for you mikko when eight am on friday yeah yeah thanks awesome thanks so 8 am pacific are you talking all right sorry 9 am uh pacific nine okay that's yeah that's perfect that works okay cool ideally cool well well thanks everyone i look forward to doing this and thanks for that suggestion now i think that weekly makes a lot a lot of sense so appreciate that thanks so much yeah good to move forward","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-04T04:19:37.691Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":6,"text":"okay cool you i i think you tried to say how about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=6s"},{"start_seconds":17,"text":"now but it's a robot i can't hear you eugene","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=17s"},{"start_seconds":30,"text":"okay cool so i'll i'll keep trying to see what's going on through albert he's i think he's gotta update his client or something else is strange um but i think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=30s"},{"start_seconds":38,"text":"we can get going with this so we're mainly here to talk about and clarify some some stuff i'm glad we're all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=38s"},{"start_seconds":45,"text":"joining because i think what's happening is we're all actually on the same page but it's really hard to do the github discussions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=45s"},{"start_seconds":53,"text":"and just it's way better to just meet up and talk like this um and so we're getting like super close to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=53s"},{"start_seconds":61,"text":"i think the end here the fungible token standard which is great i had a meeting this morning where the non-fungible token standard is also like really hot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=61s"},{"start_seconds":68,"text":"uh right now and people are actively talking about that so this is good momentum we have and i believe like uh the point that is most important to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=68s"},{"start_seconds":77,"text":"clarify is like who pays for the storage when you add a new person to a fungible can we list all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=77s"},{"start_seconds":87,"text":"the top the questions and topics because i have just to make sure we're on the same page here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=87s"},{"start_seconds":94,"text":"okay did you have a list that you wanted to go over i have a different screen that i was going to start with but it sounds like you got something ready well i can give you my list and then see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=94s"},{"start_seconds":103,"text":"if it if it adds to your list okay obviously hey robert","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=103s"},{"start_seconds":110,"text":"hey hey robert it's good to see everyone's faces here um okay so on on my list","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=110s"},{"start_seconds":119,"text":"obviously the one was the um should we allow other users to register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=119s"},{"start_seconds":127,"text":"your your account for you all right so that's one i want to go over the other one is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=127s"},{"start_seconds":134,"text":"escrow storage fees should that be defined in the standard you know but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=134s"},{"start_seconds":142,"text":"that's at the topic um yeah i think that yeah just those two","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=142s"},{"start_seconds":152,"text":"those are the two main ones i wanted to what was on your list mike yeah that's a good point i we haven't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=152s"},{"start_seconds":159,"text":"talked about the escrow so um i oh i forgot i had one more cool the um right i'm just looking at my notes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=159s"},{"start_seconds":168,"text":"here the account setup um so when registering","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=168s"},{"start_seconds":174,"text":"should we allow a message argument right to specify the purpose there being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=174s"},{"start_seconds":182,"text":"to specify the let's say the different types of accounts you know basic bronze golds whatever uh maybe some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=182s"},{"start_seconds":191,"text":"setup so that so three topics so did you have anything else on your list yeah that's good and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=191s"},{"start_seconds":199,"text":"actually we can go around it if anyone else that's a good idea and thanks al like does anyone else have ideas they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=199s"},{"start_seconds":206,"text":"want to cover before i dive into what i was kind of going to start off with right i was like thinking about like you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=206s"},{"start_seconds":214,"text":"know this this this whole concept about spamming spamming protection so registering someone's else account um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=214s"},{"start_seconds":222,"text":"and these kinds of things right uh if how if you would like to make it optional","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=222s"},{"start_seconds":231,"text":"and how to deal with a standard level under the interface level okay cool and that's one and maybe some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=231s"},{"start_seconds":241,"text":"second thing could be like i could talk about later i was like thinking about um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=241s"},{"start_seconds":247,"text":"authorization codes so the authorization code would allow you to um like instead of me paying for my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=247s"},{"start_seconds":254,"text":"account i would use some other token and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=254s"},{"start_seconds":261,"text":"someone else will register me yes and change me from for that using some other service","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=261s"},{"start_seconds":268,"text":"so typically yes that could go into a use case where some service provider would like some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=268s"},{"start_seconds":275,"text":"to register or would like to let someone else register register the user and pay for it yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=275s"},{"start_seconds":283,"text":"i think that's going to be extremely important um to allow that to happen uh so i think we can start there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=283s"},{"start_seconds":290,"text":"i made this like really quick kind of photoshop thing that i want to just start off with because i think this may help","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=290s"},{"start_seconds":298,"text":"untangle some things and i apologize that this is like super obvious already but i think it's fine to start with obvious and you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=298s"},{"start_seconds":305,"text":"move from there just to make sure we're all on the same page so i'm going to be sharing this screen here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=305s"},{"start_seconds":313,"text":"um what we're kind of looking at is sort of an off chain side and on chain side and you know if there's an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=313s"},{"start_seconds":321,"text":"n right in the middle there then that means that we're attaching near so this first uh scenario is kind of walking through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=321s"},{"start_seconds":329,"text":"alice wants to um register uh their account onto like let's say that's a die like a fungible token and we already see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=329s"},{"start_seconds":338,"text":"that mike.nir is on there and he has like 19 fungible tokens so alice is going to attach some near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=338s"},{"start_seconds":344,"text":"to register uh their account alice is added to the fungible token ledger","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=344s"},{"start_seconds":351,"text":"they're pretty darn straightforward um alice let's say is like really happy with this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=351s"},{"start_seconds":358,"text":"she's like buying art on this and tells like her friend bob all about it and bob's like wow i really wish i could do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=358s"},{"start_seconds":365,"text":"this i don't really know that blockchain stuff very much so for christmas uh alice wants to give bob","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=365s"},{"start_seconds":372,"text":"you know the ability to to do this and and give bob some some fungible tokens so alice is allowed to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=372s"},{"start_seconds":379,"text":"attach near for bob's account and that will like all be fine","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=379s"},{"start_seconds":386,"text":"the end result bob.nier has 25 merry christmas and now is able to buy some art do whatever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=386s"},{"start_seconds":394,"text":"so a bob's account is added and he goes hog wild and uses all those fungible tokens","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=394s"},{"start_seconds":402,"text":"and now bob uh has zero fungible tokens here and so he's like okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=402s"},{"start_seconds":410,"text":"that that's cool that was fun i really appreciate that um now i'm i'm actually more interested in a different fungible token i'm not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=410s"},{"start_seconds":417,"text":"super into dying anymore i'm all about like ample um so thank you for doing that i'm i'm gonna take off now and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=417s"},{"start_seconds":425,"text":"alice says oh well you know in that case i would like to you know reclaim the storage that i paid for you but that will not work so alice cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=425s"},{"start_seconds":432,"text":"like reclaim the storage for bob only bob can can reclaim that so this red arrow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=432s"},{"start_seconds":440,"text":"just kind of indicates that like alice is trying to send a transaction saying like hey by the way give me that give me that storage back and it's it's that's not going to work and so uh she","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=440s"},{"start_seconds":449,"text":"tells bob like hey i i know that you're not really interested in this fungible token anymore but if you want to get some you know near back so you can have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=449s"},{"start_seconds":457,"text":"some bunch of transactions for free basically then all you got to do is this little cli command and you'll get your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=457s"},{"start_seconds":465,"text":"your uh storage back that i initially paid for you so bob does this bob successfully just does you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=465s"},{"start_seconds":473,"text":"teeny little cli command and succeeds at uh withdrawing storage and the end result of that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=473s"},{"start_seconds":480,"text":"is now uh bob is removed from it from the fungible token ledger so that is basically i think like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=480s"},{"start_seconds":489,"text":"really cheesy example that shows kind of all the different steps and the way that i have like my mental model of all of this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=489s"},{"start_seconds":498,"text":"is this uh is this pretty clear it's it's clear um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=498s"},{"start_seconds":504,"text":"i mean i have some different ideas about this but um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=504s"},{"start_seconds":514,"text":"should should we talk about the the allowing alice to register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=514s"},{"start_seconds":522,"text":"uh who was it bob yeah bob yeah can i and i know i raised some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=522s"},{"start_seconds":530,"text":"security concerns it's more than just just spamming and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=530s"},{"start_seconds":538,"text":"let me show my screens i put something together too i might do that always","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=538s"},{"start_seconds":553,"text":"um i'll i'll make you uh i'll make you a host and i think that'll let you do this actually i'll try to make a co-host because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=553s"},{"start_seconds":561,"text":"i want to make sure that nothing gets messed up on the stream so there should be like a all right screen right now now now it showed up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=561s"},{"start_seconds":574,"text":"cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=574s"},{"start_seconds":588,"text":"yeah so just in general right um i mean it's that's a nice","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=588s"},{"start_seconds":595,"text":"uh feature to allow other users to register you i mean it's it's it's definitely we want to support","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=595s"},{"start_seconds":602,"text":"that but we in my opinion we need to support that securely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=602s"},{"start_seconds":609,"text":"the fact that the open web is open makes it very um vulnerable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=609s"},{"start_seconds":617,"text":"right and i'll i'll use this as an example the i'll use the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=617s"},{"start_seconds":625,"text":"the project i'm working on as an example the stake token right so let's say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=625s"},{"start_seconds":633,"text":"okay the user registers this is the legit the valid contract and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=633s"},{"start_seconds":640,"text":"app that the user is using now some some malicious uh actor","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=640s"},{"start_seconds":648,"text":"uh sees my sees this tech account has a i don't know let's let's just pretend it's a very it's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=648s"},{"start_seconds":656,"text":"it holds billions of dollars of assets it makes millions of dollars a transaction just just hypothetically so it's going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=656s"},{"start_seconds":664,"text":"invite it's going to invite the people to try to to that honey pot right just like a bank right the bank","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=664s"},{"start_seconds":672,"text":"robber is always trying to break into the bank so you want to make it as hard as possible now on the on the open web i can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=672s"},{"start_seconds":681,"text":"all that data on the state contract i can create a stake","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=681s"},{"start_seconds":688,"text":"create a contract that looks very similar it's almost has to say i","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=688s"},{"start_seconds":695,"text":"can get pretty much all the data um that i need to present to the user to make it look like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=695s"},{"start_seconds":703,"text":"it looks pretty current matter of fact i can look up my look up your account balance simulate everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=703s"},{"start_seconds":711,"text":"maybe entice you trick you into saying you know what we just migrated over or somehow and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=711s"},{"start_seconds":719,"text":"trick you instead of using this entry point just a different entry point","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=719s"},{"start_seconds":726,"text":"and they got you and that that's the that's the besides getting the fact of getting spam","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=726s"},{"start_seconds":734,"text":"the biggest security hole here is you're getting tricked into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=734s"},{"start_seconds":741,"text":"using a contract that you never registered with right they they can come in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=741s"},{"start_seconds":750,"text":"pull your see what see a counselor registered there pull your information query it load it up into the into the fake","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=750s"},{"start_seconds":758,"text":"into that scam contract and then hook you in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=758s"},{"start_seconds":765,"text":"all right and that's and that's and that's just a very simple example but that's that's what my concern","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=765s"},{"start_seconds":773,"text":"is being open is in an ideal world where everyone is is placed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=773s"},{"start_seconds":779,"text":"nice is great problem is that that's not that's not how the real world works","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=779s"},{"start_seconds":786,"text":"right the real world is everyone's always trying to pick your pocket trying to trick you trying to scam you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=786s"},{"start_seconds":794,"text":"and and and to pretend to make it you know just to say that it's too complex to do it let's not do it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=794s"},{"start_seconds":803,"text":"well that's you're gonna get a lot of bad publicity in my opinion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=803s"},{"start_seconds":810,"text":"can you hear me now yes okay cool um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=810s"},{"start_seconds":818,"text":"so registration will not prevent it you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=818s"},{"start_seconds":825,"text":"design a contract that will accept funds but do not require registration that will mimic the the g app and the scam so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=825s"},{"start_seconds":834,"text":"the standard itself that will not at least solve this particular case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=834s"},{"start_seconds":843,"text":"so i i have thought about this because i so even so it's a valid concern and like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=843s"},{"start_seconds":850,"text":"fishing and like scam will still be there i don't think we can prevent it by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=850s"},{"start_seconds":860,"text":"restricting registration so well if i see this is if there's a check","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=860s"},{"start_seconds":868,"text":"with this here if if i can distinguish right that the contract that i'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=868s"},{"start_seconds":876,"text":"interested i can do run some validations right you you can still do did i register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=876s"},{"start_seconds":884,"text":"did i register for this for this i didn't register it i didn't register for this uh my account","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=884s"},{"start_seconds":892,"text":"at the chase manhattan bank what are you talking about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=892s"},{"start_seconds":899,"text":"you can do the same validation it is the standard yeah but if i have the ability","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=899s"},{"start_seconds":908,"text":"to know to check did i register this account or or let's say okay i can check to see if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=908s"},{"start_seconds":917,"text":"this person registered for me do i trust this person is this person on a blacklist can i have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=917s"},{"start_seconds":925,"text":"some questions please uh mike can you can you go back to the first first first slide please or your presentation yeah well take","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=925s"},{"start_seconds":934,"text":"take mike","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=934s"},{"start_seconds":943,"text":"you need to stop sharing some i can share oh okay oh cool it worked","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=943s"},{"start_seconds":949,"text":"yeah thanks so so as as far as i understand this this process is needed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=949s"},{"start_seconds":957,"text":"because uh we want to claim the storage back from the from the smart contract","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=957s"},{"start_seconds":962,"text":"this is correct","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=962s"},{"start_seconds":970,"text":"yes sorry how much is the cost what's the what's the practical cost we are talking about in the us dollars today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=970s"},{"start_seconds":979,"text":"depends on the contract i mean for f this is this is not meant just for fungible token this is meant","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=979s"},{"start_seconds":986,"text":"right this is the actual i understand can you can we can you give me like one number that i understand if it's sense or tense um like on my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=986s"},{"start_seconds":996,"text":"on my contract it would cost roughly the price of near today about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=996s"},{"start_seconds":1002,"text":"30 cents 30 cents okay that's uh that's a cost yeah so for the basic fungible token let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1002s"},{"start_seconds":1010,"text":"say you have 64 bytes for the account and then you just need a balance","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1010s"},{"start_seconds":1016,"text":"which is another 16 bytes plus 40 for the key so it's around 2 cents two cents yeah i mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1016s"},{"start_seconds":1025,"text":"just for a vanilla what a contract created from a from a factory yeah single single balance but yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1025s"},{"start_seconds":1033,"text":"there is this this update right that the storage cost will be reduced by 100 times well i don't think we're gonna go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1033s"},{"start_seconds":1040,"text":"200 but it potentially can be reduced yes over time but at the same time near price might grow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1040s"},{"start_seconds":1047,"text":"so it will be in a ballpark is the amount of bites is is uh it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1047s"},{"start_seconds":1055,"text":"like uh 100 bytes or something so for the basic fungible token","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1055s"},{"start_seconds":1063,"text":"yes it's around 100 bytes yeah so i i think that it's so small amount","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1063s"},{"start_seconds":1070,"text":"that if if we need to uh start thinking are we wasting this amount and who can claim it back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1070s"},{"start_seconds":1078,"text":"near has a crater problem and there's no point even discuss about this because if if if a user can't do a transaction that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1078s"},{"start_seconds":1086,"text":"writes 100 bytes to a blockchain the blockchain is dead in the first place i would just ignore the problem and have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1086s"},{"start_seconds":1094,"text":"whoever whoever has the tokens can always claim it back and uh so this is so it doesn't matter this is the second problem that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1094s"},{"start_seconds":1103,"text":"what which is like an escrow of the asset and like we can focus on this that problem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1103s"},{"start_seconds":1110,"text":"if you decide whether someone else can register your account or not which is what uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1110s"},{"start_seconds":1117,"text":"else is talking about is his security concern yeah but yeah yeah yeah and the second question is that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1117s"},{"start_seconds":1125,"text":"or it's us ux is so that uh the users expect that they can just send stuff to somebody","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1125s"},{"start_seconds":1132,"text":"they are not going to for hopes and looks like who registers the accounts it should be built into transfer function at least in the ux","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1132s"},{"start_seconds":1139,"text":"ux layer if nothing else yeah because otherwise it's too complicated for the users yeah i agree yeah that's my my main idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1139s"},{"start_seconds":1147,"text":"like if we go too restrictive in order for security concerns then we will prevent some very valid use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1147s"},{"start_seconds":1155,"text":"cases one of them is developer wanna provide tokens for their users on their contract without","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1155s"},{"start_seconds":1161,"text":"having to confirm this transaction another is what mika said just in a wallet you want to send to someone who doesn't have this account yet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1161s"},{"start_seconds":1169,"text":"it would be lame if you say like oh yeah this dude cannot receive your tokens because he's not on the contract now like today if you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1169s"},{"start_seconds":1178,"text":"you would get a link saying let's say on paypal someone someone to send you some funds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1178s"},{"start_seconds":1185,"text":"you get a link you need to register i mean people are you people people today are used to they expect","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1185s"},{"start_seconds":1194,"text":"people people need to have a near account but they don't need to create a company token that's just insane right so so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1194s"},{"start_seconds":1202,"text":"let me just show you that if and if you look if if you look history if you look ethereum tokens uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1202s"},{"start_seconds":1208,"text":"that we have a lot much bigger problem of people not being able to receive their tokens than with the spam tokens","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1208s"},{"start_seconds":1215,"text":"you get some spam but it's you get much more problems with the users that can't wait to talk about their metabolism","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1215s"},{"start_seconds":1224,"text":"yeah spam is one concern but that's that's um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1224s"},{"start_seconds":1231,"text":"the bigger concern is theft that's that's where you're tricked into someone's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1231s"},{"start_seconds":1239,"text":"stealing from you this is not going to prevent it because because they can still be tricked to given out their private keys they're like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1239s"},{"start_seconds":1246,"text":"one thousands of ways to trick users and this is not going to stop it yeah i think well you're never going to stop it but if you make it too easy it's going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1246s"},{"start_seconds":1255,"text":"attract more p more malicious actors right yeah but you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1255s"},{"start_seconds":1264,"text":"do you like your house you are not going to trick anyone because you don't have uses so yeah maybe i'll give you the idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1264s"},{"start_seconds":1272,"text":"may i just say something so so um so firstly yes i mean uh i'm a supporter for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1272s"},{"start_seconds":1280,"text":"for the whole thing about the account registration and uh like having the ability to um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1280s"},{"start_seconds":1288,"text":"let a service pay for the user for the registration so when i was thinking about it um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1288s"},{"start_seconds":1295,"text":"i came up with this uh authorization code so what is an authorization code with regards to the registration so you just user can register himself as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1295s"},{"start_seconds":1304,"text":"we like the basic way right so we agree that you know it's a little bit less intuitive but how about if you know a service","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1304s"},{"start_seconds":1312,"text":"provider will generate registration codes so this is on the on the chain this will be stored as basically hashes of that codes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1312s"},{"start_seconds":1321,"text":"then i'm sending you a link or whatever maybe in the email and like a transaction whatever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1321s"},{"start_seconds":1329,"text":"a link which will basically generate a transaction in the tab that the link will contain the authorization code","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1329s"},{"start_seconds":1336,"text":"and the user basically registered himself and he only need to pay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1336s"},{"start_seconds":1343,"text":"the gas fee for the transaction which could be even returned for him yes uh so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1343s"},{"start_seconds":1352,"text":"uh so that was like my idea to solve yes and and that that's that's a big improvement because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1352s"},{"start_seconds":1359,"text":"like this the the the user knows can verify um and has has knowledge of when this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1359s"},{"start_seconds":1368,"text":"happening there could be a reason in the in the email right so so practically how i see that it will work is that you know he","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1368s"},{"start_seconds":1377,"text":"receives by email the link is basically a link to that app so it will have a clear url yeah so user can always verify it like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1377s"},{"start_seconds":1385,"text":"in any case how we are doing with images whenever you click on the email you need to on the link from the email you need to check the url right it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1385s"},{"start_seconds":1393,"text":"doesn't have https so for and so so yes and all these things so um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1393s"},{"start_seconds":1400,"text":"so security of the wallet is completely separate concern like from i mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1400s"},{"start_seconds":1407,"text":"you you still need to like at the final moment when you do a transfer even if you're tricked like through email","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1407s"},{"start_seconds":1414,"text":"you go through a wallet that hurts your funds so this moment the wallet should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1414s"},{"start_seconds":1421,"text":"do like extra steps to to prevent it and like transfer of funds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1421s"},{"start_seconds":1429,"text":"is like one of them the wallet in fact and that's like a big feature request highly anticipated wallet should provide in for more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1429s"},{"start_seconds":1437,"text":"information about transaction authorization not only the amount of of near but also like what transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1437s"},{"start_seconds":1446,"text":"was the was the account so yeah one thing is like when you send near to unknown address it can show it to you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1446s"},{"start_seconds":1455,"text":"and which will prevent a lot of scam because like if you've never interacted with this account it will be a warning on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1455s"},{"start_seconds":1464,"text":"on a like on on the wallet side when you approve this transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1464s"},{"start_seconds":1472,"text":"right but i mean like here we should really shift like all these concerns to the wallet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1472s"},{"start_seconds":1479,"text":"i mean most of these concerns right we need to have like the right api so the wallet i mean we we can provide the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1479s"},{"start_seconds":1486,"text":"service to the user but like most of the security concerns um so from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1486s"},{"start_seconds":1494,"text":"yeah so that's why if we design this to restrictive which means a user cannot receive","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1494s"},{"start_seconds":1502,"text":"a token without first interacting with the token it will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1502s"},{"start_seconds":1509,"text":"probably create huge problems for certain use cases","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1509s"},{"start_seconds":1517,"text":"on the other end if you allow to create this it it brings","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1517s"},{"start_seconds":1524,"text":"issue of you should you will be able to interact with this contract","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1524s"},{"start_seconds":1532,"text":"as you already registered with this contract so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1532s"},{"start_seconds":1542,"text":"in this case you kind of can be tricked to like send tokens to this contract because you already pre-registered with this contract","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1542s"},{"start_seconds":1549,"text":"but if even if you don't have an ability to do this this scam contract can still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1549s"},{"start_seconds":1557,"text":"receive your assets because the scam contract does not have to follow the standard it can mimic it as much as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1557s"},{"start_seconds":1565,"text":"possible to look like it follows the standard but it actually does not require you to ever register manually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1565s"},{"start_seconds":1575,"text":"so yeah i i think too like security seems like just not i don't i don't see how we could possibly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1575s"},{"start_seconds":1583,"text":"fully have it security in the standard like so what i've got highlighted here is the code hash so you know similarly to where like you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1583s"},{"start_seconds":1591,"text":"probably don't want to be putting your life savings into a contract that has a full access key you're going to be able you're going to want to check","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1591s"},{"start_seconds":1599,"text":"hey does this contract like this defy contract like someone can they just drain all my funds so you want to like check that so you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1599s"},{"start_seconds":1607,"text":"can check that with near cli in the same way you have the code hash where someone can look at your open source um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1607s"},{"start_seconds":1615,"text":"fungible token contract and they can hash it and you know this is like you know see what the hash is does this match okay then we know that for sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1615s"},{"start_seconds":1624,"text":"this is exactly the same like contract as them um like kind of furthermore on this i do think that like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1624s"},{"start_seconds":1631,"text":"maybe this discussion is more in line with like token curated registries that would appear on things like wallet so like you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1631s"},{"start_seconds":1640,"text":"know like a tiny little example of this is um maybe someone follows the standard except for they're greedy and they want that two","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1640s"},{"start_seconds":1647,"text":"cents you know they want so that when someone tries to unregister their account instead of sending the the the storage costs to the user uh you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1647s"},{"start_seconds":1656,"text":"know what i'm just gonna keep it well we could have like a little um we could we could like automate this where um if someone wants to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1656s"},{"start_seconds":1665,"text":"get their token on this like kind of approved list then it will go through operations and make sure that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1665s"},{"start_seconds":1673,"text":"you know behavior is what is expected and if you fail then you're not on the list and if you pass then you are in the list so i think there's a couple things here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1673s"},{"start_seconds":1681,"text":"people have to you know make it known that they don't have access keys on there they have to make it known what their source code is which can be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1681s"},{"start_seconds":1688,"text":"verified by the code hash and they if they want to get on lists that show that they're you know even further approved then they have to like abide by that standard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1688s"},{"start_seconds":1697,"text":"yeah that's it right right but that but that those are separate security concerns right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1697s"},{"start_seconds":1705,"text":"um this is fraud i'm talking about fraud someone trying to um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1705s"},{"start_seconds":1715,"text":"to kanye right we have to yeah you know we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1715s"},{"start_seconds":1722,"text":"might get a lot of users um initially but as soon as there's a lot of fraud","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1722s"},{"start_seconds":1729,"text":"guess what number one you're going to pull in regulation the government's going to come in and say they're going to lock this down","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1729s"},{"start_seconds":1736,"text":"we have to think long term if we don't put in measures to make this as secure as possible you we're just welcoming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1736s"},{"start_seconds":1744,"text":"the government to step in and say there's too much fraud going on here and we have to regulate it if we don't regulate it ourselves","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1744s"},{"start_seconds":1753,"text":"guess what a big big government will regulate it for us so we have to be careful","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1753s"},{"start_seconds":1764,"text":"so the example where like that ul pointed out can be let's say i have a unislope app","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1764s"},{"start_seconds":1772,"text":"and i have a scam unislope app and i have a valid die contract so what you're trying to prevent is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1772s"},{"start_seconds":1781,"text":"um you go to a wallet and you're like trying to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1781s"},{"start_seconds":1788,"text":"interact with a unislope app and this unislope app is like a fake unisop app so the wallet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1788s"},{"start_seconds":1797,"text":"can potentially somehow look at the registration and see that you haven't registered for the fake unisop app and you're trying to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1797s"},{"start_seconds":1805,"text":"send dye tokens to you and yourself even so you own this guy and you interacted with that before","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1805s"},{"start_seconds":1812,"text":"and this is where registration would potentially show you that well you actually didn't register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1812s"},{"start_seconds":1821,"text":"yourself for the new unison app and that's why you shouldn't be able to send tokens there like it would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1821s"},{"start_seconds":1828,"text":"fail but it can be done like with other measurements right right right you haven't personally registered","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1828s"},{"start_seconds":1837,"text":"with this union swap because you don't have a transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1837s"},{"start_seconds":1842,"text":"that's provides some measure right yeah but all i'm saying is if we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1842s"},{"start_seconds":1850,"text":"don't regulate ourselves someone else will it's just a matter of time yeah well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1850s"},{"start_seconds":1858,"text":"it would be great if you get this attention it's near because right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1858s"},{"start_seconds":1865,"text":"you don't want this kind of attention well i understand but it's like still far from happening and decentralization should protect","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1865s"},{"start_seconds":1874,"text":"there we want a reputation that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1874s"},{"start_seconds":1880,"text":"we put security first um we you know if it would say security first visit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1880s"},{"start_seconds":1889,"text":"give a hardware wallet for everybody that's that would solve it but even hardware doesn't solve anything the longest like i know you cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1889s"},{"start_seconds":1898,"text":"see the target anyway so so and i'm not sure what the what you know i mean i'm just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1898s"},{"start_seconds":1904,"text":"raising the point it's it's just that keep making it wide open","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1904s"},{"start_seconds":1911,"text":"i think is long it may seem easy short term but it's just opening that back it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1911s"},{"start_seconds":1919,"text":"leaving the back door open for that for um forget about the robber coming in for uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1919s"},{"start_seconds":1927,"text":"the gestapo to come in and and and uh the feds coming in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1927s"},{"start_seconds":1935,"text":"okay you know right now i see if security like fraud","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1935s"},{"start_seconds":1943,"text":"is the main concern i don't think this measure actually prevents it and makes it that much harder like like there's no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1943s"},{"start_seconds":1952,"text":"you you can be tricked in accepting registration and different standards and stuff like this so well i'm pretty sure let's let's say you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1952s"},{"start_seconds":1962,"text":"called up in front of congress and they say so did you think about this security did","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1962s"},{"start_seconds":1970,"text":"you think about putting any security measures in you know it's completely wide open why did you leave everything completely wide open oh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1970s"},{"start_seconds":1978,"text":"and how do you respond to that in front of a con when a senator is interrogating you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1978s"},{"start_seconds":1987,"text":"uh this is off topic you have to focus on that yeah what's your yeah that's what i just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1987s"},{"start_seconds":1994,"text":"i'm raising those points you know i mean it's really it comes down to the community um but that's like i said it's we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=1994s"},{"start_seconds":2004,"text":"gonna have a difference of opinion i'm i'm i have a strong opinion on this one and well i'm pretty sure we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2004s"},{"start_seconds":2013,"text":"have a separate standard that's saying oh i wanna actually only personal registration so like this can be restricted","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2013s"},{"start_seconds":2022,"text":"or like secure token standard so just prevent register by someone else and it can panic and just it just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2022s"},{"start_seconds":2030,"text":"works this way uh it may face like different i mean the individual contracts can be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2030s"},{"start_seconds":2037,"text":"can be much more secure than the standard right can always add more security yeah that's what i'm saying that's that's for sure so let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2037s"},{"start_seconds":2045,"text":"move to the second problem so as mika pointed out the escrow amount we're talking about in this standard is probably which which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2045s"},{"start_seconds":2054,"text":"is main point of the standard right now is to unblock functional token so the amount is fairly low and we probably shouldn't care about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2054s"},{"start_seconds":2062,"text":"escrow because escrow will increase the amount of bytes and complicate the implementation so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2062s"},{"start_seconds":2069,"text":"let's skip let's keep it working that whose account it is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2069s"},{"start_seconds":2076,"text":"then they claim the tokens yeah i would say don't put it in the standard but again the contract can decide if they want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2076s"},{"start_seconds":2085,"text":"escrow it right also speaking of that um i had a good call with people who were talking about the nft","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2085s"},{"start_seconds":2092,"text":"standard and brought something up where i mean especially nfts this makes a lot of sense because you know there are nfts for you know art that may have like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2092s"},{"start_seconds":2100,"text":"royalties and you know all this stuff and then there's nfts for like subscriptions that won't really have realities necessarily and there's all these different kind of like you do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2100s"},{"start_seconds":2109,"text":"whatever you want with an nft and um now we're talking about a few different like add-ons right to like standards on top of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2109s"},{"start_seconds":2117,"text":"base standard for fungible tokens and it makes me wonder if we want to have some sort of like field that's like hey by the way this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2117s"},{"start_seconds":2124,"text":"fungible token implements this and this um so that folks can know what to expect uh from from this does that does that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2124s"},{"start_seconds":2134,"text":"does that make sense yeah this would tie into the metadata","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2134s"},{"start_seconds":2141,"text":"so the final the final question that we still need to discuss is ability to register different types of accounts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2141s"},{"start_seconds":2149,"text":"as part of the standard so um i i thought a little more about this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2149s"},{"start_seconds":2157,"text":"and i feel you if you have ability to register different types of account to change the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2157s"},{"start_seconds":2165,"text":"storage associated with the account then you would need to have ability to upgrade your account or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2165s"},{"start_seconds":2173,"text":"you register to a new type which creates complication towards this particular standard that's supposed to solve","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2173s"},{"start_seconds":2179,"text":"one simple use case and i would suggest to move this type of registration to a separate standard in case it's needed because it needs to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2179s"},{"start_seconds":2188,"text":"put months out about like upgradability and i have a pattern that will likely occur","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2188s"},{"start_seconds":2195,"text":"and this is yeah that's good good point i i thought about that as well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2195s"},{"start_seconds":2202,"text":"it does that because you want to be able to upgrade you might need to add","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2202s"},{"start_seconds":2209,"text":"add more funds depending on the use case yeah so the example of this let's say we have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2209s"},{"start_seconds":2216,"text":"some kind of pre-allocated space for 10 kilobytes but occasionally maybe you need to increase your storage so let's say you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2216s"},{"start_seconds":2224,"text":"your personal account there and you just want to be able to control the amount of tokens that you pre-allocated foster","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2224s"},{"start_seconds":2233,"text":"right but i don't think this should be a part of the standard like i would like to keep it like a minimum yeah yeah that's what we i think we all agree on this so we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2233s"},{"start_seconds":2242,"text":"dropping the message and you know like what kind of a problem you try to solve here right we try to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2242s"},{"start_seconds":2250,"text":"solve like the basic like onboarding yeah and we want yourself i mean not on this side we would need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2250s"},{"start_seconds":2257,"text":"like change the runtime if you would like to abstract and i thought after it uh i'm going to correct my blog","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2257s"},{"start_seconds":2266,"text":"i think there's a task for it to let someone else pay for the transactions currently uh each signer has to pay for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2266s"},{"start_seconds":2275,"text":"transaction so he has to have an a year so um finally let's say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2275s"},{"start_seconds":2284,"text":"we change or plan to change the storage cost and you follow the standard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2284s"},{"start_seconds":2290,"text":"how should the contract react assuming it can figure out the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2290s"},{"start_seconds":2297,"text":"registration cost so let's say you bought storage at more expensive price then we dropped the price you will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2297s"},{"start_seconds":2306,"text":"refunded at cheaper price if the contract knows about this i think that's right i mean you would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2306s"},{"start_seconds":2314,"text":"you would track i mean whatever you deposit you would pay going to an escrow account so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2314s"},{"start_seconds":2321,"text":"that's when i mean so this this is extra bytes that like yeah no i mean we agree","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2321s"},{"start_seconds":2329,"text":"yeah we agree we don't we i think i i think we can do it basically like using the indexer of chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2329s"},{"start_seconds":2337,"text":"because this is in the best interest of the service provider no i mean let's say i'm designing a fungible token standard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2337s"},{"start_seconds":2345,"text":"right and should i hardcore the price of storage or let's say there's an ability to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2345s"},{"start_seconds":2352,"text":"update it either through a host method as you want but you know if you will do this kind of a tracing mechanism it's not a contract it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2352s"},{"start_seconds":2361,"text":"would be more expensive of course right right but i i think this should be optional because at the end of the day we could do it like all the analysis","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2361s"},{"start_seconds":2368,"text":"often using the indexer and again at the best interest of the of the of the service provider","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2368s"},{"start_seconds":2377,"text":"to give back the um unused tokens like i could make i mean if i want to be bad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2377s"},{"start_seconds":2386,"text":"guy i could just you know whatever is the standard i would say okay i don't care about it yeah whoever faced","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2386s"},{"start_seconds":2393,"text":"me i will i will so cool so so let's summarize so far we basically go with the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2393s"},{"start_seconds":2402,"text":"ability to register account for someone else and that puts we don't require to track escrow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2402s"},{"start_seconds":2410,"text":"like you can personally do this as a contract and then only the account owner","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2410s"},{"start_seconds":2418,"text":"can unregister it there is a method force which will forfeit all the balances on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2418s"},{"start_seconds":2425,"text":"this contract if there is any i think we are changing this right now not a parameter force","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2425s"},{"start_seconds":2432,"text":"we are burning right first i i like force than just burn because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2432s"},{"start_seconds":2441,"text":"it again well this is not specific to fungible tokens right okay okay fair enough","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2441s"},{"start_seconds":2448,"text":"um and we go for the prefix of ar i already updated it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2448s"},{"start_seconds":2455,"text":"so what about naming do you like just ar register or register account","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2455s"},{"start_seconds":2462,"text":"is there any strong preference i like just to register i like short i mean in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2462s"},{"start_seconds":2469,"text":"i'm like from the you know like a cam where things should be easy to read short and like fit in the screen of 96","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2469s"},{"start_seconds":2478,"text":"characters and we go for is registered right ar is registered register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2478s"},{"start_seconds":2485,"text":"ai and register ar is registered and then you have a our registration fee","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2485s"},{"start_seconds":2494,"text":"right okay or um if you want to make it even shorter ar","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2494s"},{"start_seconds":2500,"text":"registered i mean but doesn't matter i think it was a different no no it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2500s"},{"start_seconds":2507,"text":"for is registered versus registered yeah it will be close to register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2507s"},{"start_seconds":2513,"text":"okay i mean this is like that's fine yeah okay um and we say that both","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2513s"},{"start_seconds":2521,"text":"register and unregister are payable right so what do we do not unregister","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2521s"},{"start_seconds":2530,"text":"right our register requires exactly one yak 10 year to unregister so it cannot be called through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2530s"},{"start_seconds":2538,"text":"okay thank you so um right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2538s"},{"start_seconds":2549,"text":"how okay so i mean i don't think we we we have a consensus here so for the registration for the register","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2549s"},{"start_seconds":2558,"text":"method do we want to that anyone can register anyone or not yes yes man","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2558s"},{"start_seconds":2566,"text":"i vote no but i'm outlawed i'm also against the but you know but i would prefer like we have this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2566s"},{"start_seconds":2575,"text":"authorization code for this kind of a mechanism i think we can follow up on a new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2575s"},{"start_seconds":2582,"text":"proposal if you want to do this i as for jasper from flux he also votes for yes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2582s"},{"start_seconds":2590,"text":"but he's not on the call today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2590s"},{"start_seconds":2594,"text":"you mean to allow everyone registering","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2594s"},{"start_seconds":2604,"text":"everyone yeah if we bring down the cost it will be like fairly small so it will be like less than a cent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2604s"},{"start_seconds":2614,"text":"right now from most of the use cases so still um it would prevent spam and like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2614s"},{"start_seconds":2621,"text":"survivability of the contract by the way did anyone made a benchmark recently about like what's the cost of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2621s"},{"start_seconds":2628,"text":"or after maybe in your contract how much is the cost of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2628s"},{"start_seconds":2635,"text":"stakehold stake token transaction transfer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2635s"},{"start_seconds":2642,"text":"in terms of gas yes um about on average","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2642s"},{"start_seconds":2651,"text":"about um 45 tera gifts that's because you're doing you're doing the call","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2651s"},{"start_seconds":2658,"text":"right it's because it's doing the correspondence yeah yep and it's doing behind it's triggering behind the scenes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2658s"},{"start_seconds":2667,"text":"calls and yes the way like funchable talking basic transfer it fits under","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2667s"},{"start_seconds":2675,"text":"five tera gas um of the actual compute guest so the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2675s"},{"start_seconds":2682,"text":"function call itself is about 2.5 jar i guess so you you you think like it probably less but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2682s"},{"start_seconds":2691,"text":"i'm i'm using this number right now in in my mind so 45 teragast is 0.45 near right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2691s"},{"start_seconds":2701,"text":"but no fungible token will be seven point five tera gas or less like i think five cherry gas probably can fit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2701s"},{"start_seconds":2710,"text":"uh but forty five tera guys is zero point forty five zero point forty five year isn't it no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2710s"},{"start_seconds":2717,"text":"it's multiplied by the gas price gas price is 10 in 19 or 18.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2717s"},{"start_seconds":2724,"text":"i don't remember like the the the terra gas of gas is 10 12 in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2724s"},{"start_seconds":2730,"text":"by by a hundred billion it's billion so it's 10 in uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2730s"},{"start_seconds":2738,"text":"21 21. let's see the current gas price a minute as long as it stays under 10 cents so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2738s"},{"start_seconds":2747,"text":"that means that the nearest uh competitive with other blockchains so if it goes up then there's nothing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2747s"},{"start_seconds":2754,"text":"smaller yeah so the gas price is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2754s"},{"start_seconds":2760,"text":"actually 100 million which is 10 and 18 or 10 10 and 8","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2760s"},{"start_seconds":2768,"text":"plus 12 for the terra gas so you get about 7.5","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2768s"},{"start_seconds":2775,"text":"multiplied by 10 and 20 which gives you um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2775s"},{"start_seconds":2783,"text":"so one tier i guess is like one byte of storage pretty much if it's easier to compute this way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2783s"},{"start_seconds":2797,"text":"one thermal gas is 1 by 7.5 multiplied by ten into one power of twenty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2797s"},{"start_seconds":2805,"text":"divided by ten power of twenty four","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2805s"},{"start_seconds":2809,"text":"gives us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2809s"},{"start_seconds":2817,"text":"less than so it's 7.5 10 000 of a year so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2817s"},{"start_seconds":2827,"text":"which okay so five uh e minus four right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2827s"},{"start_seconds":2834,"text":"so it's point one and five year or dollar or cents","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2834s"},{"start_seconds":2842,"text":"so it's like less than a cent in the center you can send six transfers okay so not bad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2842s"},{"start_seconds":2852,"text":"that's very good i also want to make sure we circle back on like the metadata too because it seems like correct me if i'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2852s"},{"start_seconds":2860,"text":"wrong but there's kind of like this the base standard for fungible token and then this account registration and then metadata","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2860s"},{"start_seconds":2869,"text":"and possibly a third one that's like for us adding escrows to yours because i feel like people coming from other blockchains are going to be and there's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2869s"},{"start_seconds":2877,"text":"still good use cases for escrows does that summarize all the things we need to wrap up for the finalized finalized uh standard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2877s"},{"start_seconds":2886,"text":"what do you mean by escrows i mean because we don't have s-curves in um that's not part of the standard that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2886s"},{"start_seconds":2894,"text":"right yeah i guess like an add-on to finish the metadata standard so we need to start the proposal which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2894s"},{"start_seconds":2902,"text":"will take the what robert suggested in his uh there's the extensions we talked about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2902s"},{"start_seconds":2911,"text":"too like the ability to burn i mean oh yes yeah but those are extensive yeah the extensions are separate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2911s"},{"start_seconds":2919,"text":"later yeah so we need to only finalize the metadata for the token and okay i can start the discussion right after the call about them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2919s"},{"start_seconds":2927,"text":"yeah thanks robert and uh yeah let's update the discussion to reflect that the latest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2927s"},{"start_seconds":2936,"text":"um proposal nice yeah i mean i think it'd be great if we could even finish this by like you know a week from today like you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2936s"},{"start_seconds":2944,"text":"i'd love to i'd love to see this go forward quick and it seems like it is going that fast but that's kind of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2944s"},{"start_seconds":2951,"text":"my hope um for this okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2951s"},{"start_seconds":2962,"text":"any final comments i would say no there's nothing related to this but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2962s"},{"start_seconds":2971,"text":"um and i think i put it in the post maybe something to consider is to put if we're going to be actively","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2971s"},{"start_seconds":2979,"text":"working on standards maybe put something on the calendar to have because you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2979s"},{"start_seconds":2988,"text":"instead of spending going back days you know yeah to to come to a consensus or a decision","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2988s"},{"start_seconds":2996,"text":"we can make these decisions weekly i like that does does this time work uh for everyone or is it was this a kind of an exception","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=2996s"},{"start_seconds":3004,"text":"this i i can make this work friday three p.m usually works it's 10 p.m on friday for me so it's not alphabet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3004s"},{"start_seconds":3013,"text":"okay yeah okay i forget where where are you located robert switzerland so it's now it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3013s"},{"start_seconds":3022,"text":"almost 10 as well yeah i've i'm in the eastern time zone i'm in new york state","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3022s"},{"start_seconds":3030,"text":"uh i think are you are you at the west coast right here and yeah mike and eugene","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3030s"},{"start_seconds":3038,"text":"i think we can make it work like maybe like two or three hours earlier uh would that work for you al","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3038s"},{"start_seconds":3045,"text":"at noon yeah i'm usually open at noon so like nine our time eastern time so yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3045s"},{"start_seconds":3052,"text":"robert what what's the time for you like this well you know it depends i mean we can we can keep the same time to be honest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3052s"},{"start_seconds":3062,"text":"usually i should be available we can also move to a different day of the week a friday","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3062s"},{"start_seconds":3069,"text":"people want to like take evenings off um so miko you don't you would like to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3069s"},{"start_seconds":3081,"text":"have it earlier right yeah it would make my life easier okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3081s"},{"start_seconds":3087,"text":"like what time was the latest time uh i can do like 6 p.m like four hours","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3087s"},{"start_seconds":3095,"text":"before now okay we can talk about that let's see it works for me","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3095s"},{"start_seconds":3103,"text":"there's maybe some conflict on friday for this time but yeah i mean yeah that's depends oh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3103s"},{"start_seconds":3111,"text":"that's eight eight a.m okay eight time works fine for me if we could do it one hour later that'd be great because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3111s"},{"start_seconds":3118,"text":"actually there's a nft meeting at that time weekly now does that work for you mikko when eight am on friday","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3118s"},{"start_seconds":3127,"text":"yeah yeah thanks awesome thanks so 8 am pacific are you talking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3127s"},{"start_seconds":3135,"text":"all right sorry 9 am uh pacific nine okay that's yeah that's perfect that works okay cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3135s"},{"start_seconds":3143,"text":"ideally cool well well thanks everyone i look forward to doing this and thanks for that suggestion now i think that weekly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3143s"},{"start_seconds":3151,"text":"makes a lot a lot of sense so appreciate that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3151s"},{"start_seconds":3154,"text":"thanks so much yeah good to move forward","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU&t=3154s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=pN7p45b_yvU","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/pN7p45b_yvU"}