{"id":"p3T_WpbZ9Qk","title":"NEAR AI Office Hours #26 w Paolo Ardoino Tether","description":"Illia & Alex discuss the latest AI research topics and unpack some NEAR.AI focus areas.\r\n\nGuest:\r\nPaolo Ardoino - Tether\r\nhttps://x.com/paoloardoino\r\nhttps://x.com/tether_to\n\nIllia Polosukhin https://x.com/ilblackdragon\nAlex Skidanov https://x.com/AlexSkidanov\r\n\r\nTakeaways:\nDecentralized AI Is Essential:\nPaolo Ardoino, Illia Polosukhin and Alex Skidanov emphasize the importance of user-owned, decentralized AI systems to ensure privacy, security, and resistance to centralized control, especially in critical applications.\n\nInfrastructure Is Key to Open AI Development:\nTether’s acquisition of GPU infrastructure and NEAR’s scalable blockchain demonstrate a commitment to supporting open-source AI ecosystems, enabling developers to create advanced models without relying on centralized platforms.\n\nAI in Peer-to-Peer Networks:\nThe conversation highlights the use of peer-to-peer systems, like those built on NEAR and Whole Punch, to enable resilient and decentralized AI interactions without intermediaries.\n\nChallenges of Centralized AI:\nCentralized AI models risk becoming gatekeepers of innovation and economic progress. The speakers outline a vision for systems that prioritize individual and developer sovereignty.\n\nFuture-Proofing with Advanced Tools:\nBoth NEAR and Tether are exploring ways to integrate cryptographic privacy, secure execution environments, and open protocols to ensure long-term sustainability and equitable access for users and developers.\n\nNEAR is the Blockchain for AI\r\nWebsite: https://near.org/\r\nNEAR AI: https://near.ai/\r\nIntents: https://near.org/intents\r\nChain Abstraction: https://www.proximity.dev/\r\nSharding: https://nearone.org/\r\n\r\nFor the devs\r\nGitHub: https://github.com/near \r\nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\r\nDevhub: https://devhub.near.page/ @NEARDevHub\r\n\r\nConnect with socials\r\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \r\nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\r\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \r\n#NEAR #nearprotocol #NEARAI","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2024-11-26T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/p3T_WpbZ9Qk/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"near to one we're close to won't stop us now together we'll redefine the game when near we'll find the flame empowered Minds rise and soore use your own AI we'll explore hold the future hand in hand in this tax driven Wonderland okay hello hello we have the another episode of neari office hours today we have Paulo joining CEO of tether and uh also uh CDO of bitf finx I think co-founder of whole punch and lots of other things I'm sure um so thanks for coming very excited to have the conversation on AI on how uh kind of future evolves with money with you know stable coins as well um and what you guys are also I know you've uh you you've guys announced that you're doing AI stuff on your side as well so welcome do you want to give like quick intro and also how you've been thinking about the space sure and thank you for having me is very very exciting I think that uh AI is uh has always been one one of my passions um definitely um this uh this the last two years uh made it even more possible given you know the um the growth of tedar and so our a augmented capabilities but basically just for the people that don't know me I'm Pao ardino I'm the CEO at teder as as you said I'm a I'm a science um computer Scientist by formation I coded started coding when I was very very young nerd about sci-fi um um anything that relates to New Dimensions of words um so I'm probably as Mo be my preferred author um so all checks out I think um and yeah I you know very very excited to be here so thank you for the opportunity for sure yeah yeah we're big fans of asumo as Alex as well and and sci-fi in general so yeah maybe uh kind of the the topic to you know start from is uh I mean we we talk a lot about kind of user owned Ai and you know why why it's important uh but I think it's still worse you know kind of from your perspective what is the like what is the importance you know how does this been in like how does values of crypto right they obviously been in crypto for a long time informing you how you see the AI space and how it should evolve yeah I think look the until two years ago you you wouldn't walk in the streets and hear people talking about Chach or oi in general was such a um two years ago feels like more more like 20 years ago in terms of awareness of of AI as um as a technology with one of the most incredible Potentials in in the world and um so that kind of scares me already because um what we see now in AI is very centralized um there are multiple reasons for that um building uh larger language models I think is the one of the most obvious um products of of this AI Sprint that we had in the last few years is very very expensive so um you for sure have seen how Elon Musk built 100, 8 200 and 100 GPU cluster it comes very very expensive I can tell you that like so it's not like any like random person can uh can think to compete with that size of models and access to human knowledge and data all together in a single place to build a very very comprehensive model so the fact that is already an um elarium um effort kind of uh defeats some of the principles that I think brought us into the crypto space um the ability to run their your own node the ability to or or you know build or be your own validator control your own money it's um it's the core of the ethos and philosophy of crypto and and why Bitcoin started right in in 2008 was that the ability of or your the necessity of making sure that you don't have to trust others in order to be a self- sovereign individual um and while it's great that we have Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to Sol the monetary part of our Lives everything else is very very centralized you know I'm as a as a nerd and and you as a as a developer you know I I made among my uh well I really love every sort of books but uh you know been formed my my mind has been formed over the years about thinking about the worst case scenario always and so I feel like the way I try to describe it to people is that when you open a smartphone and you pick 20 apps that you have in a smartphone um they will only work in the best case scenario where the best case scenario is the word is largely largely at peace uh there are not major uh natural catastrophes no Global Wars whatever like those you know WhatsApp and similar will keep working when in the best cave scenario in the worst case scenario nothing that you have on your phone everything that you have been used to um every single tool that you're using to speak and interact with your family friends and co-workers they it will stop working suddenly and um and the more we invest in AI the more we build um uh you know productivity around ai ai being centralized will also fail us in the in the times when maybe we will need it the most so the realization that we need to start pivoting towards Building Technology that is resistant to the wrath of God and resistant in the worst case scenario is what excites me makes sense yeah I I also use this example where right now effectively open AI you know assuming and and I think everybody really you know sees this happening already AI tooling will become more and more contributor to GDP it will become more and more intervene into how business is doing like dayto day imagine open AI is just like you know tomorrow is like you know what guys let's just turn off Germany right Italy more like Italy yeah yeah or Italy or whatever right or EU because like hey we don't want to deal with gdpr it's too complicated right I mean meta already just did this saying like hey you cannot use our models in EU and so now you L have like you know country or the whole region that's not able to access what is effective becoming a massive GDP boost and you know massive life Improvement and kind of potentially core businesses built around this and that's like that's not anymore already like a you know capitalism that's literally a control and so now when you know whoever runs these companies comes to these countries they effectively have this uh control over those countries now to be able to effectively say heyy we're going to turn off 20% of your GDP you know this is just like a fireball rule right so I think like to me that's like it and and again this can happen because the government decided like specific government decided to do this or whatever or like individual or company like that's a very dangerous situation that we're like really moving quickly into and so yeah like very much agree that we need to build for a really like a permissionless usage of this technology and ability to do this and I think the interesting kind of point that we've been facing is that the problem is the open source right also doesn't have money and doesn't have ability to you know invest uh to for context uh I think Elan musk's cluster is about3 billion dollar to build so yeah open source like you know somebody sitting in research institutes definitely don't have access to this kind of compute power um although you know prices are going down and uh for h100s in general so one of the things we've been spending a lot of time is like how do we uh how do we create a open source you know permissionless but also monetizable uh system for AI and I think I mean I I know you've guys also been kind of looking around uh I'm curious kind of what you've guys been uh looking at in this area yeah look we have three so first of all T started with um doing a very important strategic step so we purchase the majority interest in a company called norn data that has In This Moment 24,000 gpus um is not 100 but it's still um is honest work and um the reason why we did that is in order we wanted to create the first or the biggest independent uh AI infrastructure provider in the world to us that that is very very important because we need to be um less dependent from Google Microsoft and Amazon that are and now X that are actually capturing the majority of the output of Nvidia I believe in the future we will see more more specialized um chips more ASX chips that will um uh be perfect and accomplish certain you know certain or be designed for a specific type of model models so that the cost of of chips will go down and there will be less general purpose but it's a great way to scale things I think but for the time being you know we wanted to start from that step because you know you could have the greatest ideas but if you don't have if you you you don't have control over your own infrastructure I think you are kind of that second um we we have a very good and uh and well trained um AI training team so we are searching um existing papers and we are looking to build our own models so and train our own models so that is something that we started doing since the last six months so we formed a team that runs fully within tar data third we are building a software development kit um that uh is going to be um the aim of this software development key is actually been uh with the same code you can run um a model from um on a $30 smartphone on a embedded device on a smart TV or on a smart fridge or a car entertainment system or a laptop on a server uh Mainframe server with eight gpus eight eight eight h00 gpus or multiple server with hundreds or thousands of gpus same code uh of course if you are in a $30 smartphone you would pick a model that has like 500 um million tokens you know the more you scale you can scale up and down but same code base same logic runs everywhere the reason why we are doing this is and also we are building a communication layer based on whole punch that allows the creation of like uh a hoorde uh of tens of millions of AI agents fully peer-to-peer uh with without any Central server that can interact within between each other without any sort of uh um you know interference from overlords um and third we added the we we just finished to develop well no we we released the first version of wdk that is called is a wallet development kit I believe that agents should have their own non-custodial wallets um because um I doubt that um you know PayPal will start on boarding AI agents um I think that in the next 10 years we are going to see the um the number of transactions made by AI agents be 10 times uh the transactions that humanity is doing so that has to be peer-to-peer that has to be noncustodial that has to be uh of course nonos doesn't mean that AI agents can start buying their own beer you can still enforce through you know natural language constraints in the ability or their ability to access the let's say the wallet part of things um but um so safety is still very important but it's important also to make sure that whatever we build is scalable and is not only controlled by one single company but we can Empower people and developers to build um um agent systems and models that can run everywhere and can scale um in a very peer-to-peer way yeah I mean there's a lot of turn back here um I actually maybe wanted to start from whole punch because uh I've seen I've seen it before for the communications for the chat for the chat uh and we also been looking a lot at like how to improve peer-to-peer communication how to add a layer of guarantees around that so and I mean also very much that uh going to be a lot of either agents or or services that provide different uh value to other agents and kind of how how to interconnect them how they're going to discover each other um so curious maybe yeah like high level just maybe describe whole punch uh and kind of we can discuss how that works sure so for the people people and I think most of the people are familiar with be torrent you know that there one story that I really very much like is the history of f sharing systems so you have U you know at the beginning was knobster and then knobster were shut down because it was fully centralized and then you had um Nutella then you had lime wire then you had e donkey then eony plus Cadia and then you had eventually bitor and after borrent you don't have much else why because every step before bit torant was basically um was um not complete or was lacking or was still relying on certain parts of centralization so for example lime wire had some peer-to-peer fire sharing but the in order to find the files you had to connect to a specific server or multiple servers so the indexing so the no the uh the the yeah the indexing the the the list of all the files available was centralized and so then you had uh uh you had uh issues with that and so over time also the with bit Tor and bro basically compared to all the previous attempts was fully decentralized um database of all the POS all the different files and also full on peerto P fire sharing but on top of that other the technique that is called hole punching that is supported by every basically all the switches in the world that allows you remember sometimes with lime wire or donkey you had to go in the router at home and basically configure it so that you could redirect the connection from the internet to your own computer that that was okay but it was only for the Geeks right my mother couldn't couldn't do that and so what um bitor BR was this whole punch technique that allows to bypass firewalls it's very simple it's not it's very secure it's not like oh now someone everyone can connect my my computer but um it really created a very simple userfriendly way to connect to two peers that wanted to connect to each other so he had an endshake and if the two peers wanted to connect it could bypass the firewall and bypass all this uh you know complexity in configuring routers and switches and and so on so basically H punch started project started few years ago five years ago with the realization that the bitor protocol that is a set of protocols between hle punching swarms also bitor had this great idea where if you want to download a file you can also create basically a public attestation of you can split the file in multiple chunks uh or blocks and you can create a public attestation so that suddenly if multiple people you could download the portion of the same file from multiple people um that could attest to have that portion of the file right so very very cool technique um and um and so we came to the realization that the DHD the distributed hash table that is the the distributed database that bitor had was great for multiple use cases not just file sharing that swarming so the ability to access content was great for for example live stream um content as well and uh the concept of hole punching and peer to was great for peer-to-peer so you you didn't have to have complex configurations um so basically we started um we started building rebuilding all the whole all the build T um protocols um around the JavaScript and C++ and but we also enrich them with all the knowledge we could gather from the cryptocurrency and the blockchain world because bit torent was not really focusing on ID for example was not really focusing on more most more complex cryptographical um soluions so we added basically all the cryptography to to add the provability of data and also for example establishing realtime connectivity among different PE peers into whole punch in a very extremely modular way whole punch is actually more than 500 different small repositories of code that all together create you can pick any portion of it and use it as Lego to build any sort of interaction you want that's why I think that as of today I think whole punch is the best networking layer for any project you might want to build full stop right I I believe that we put so much effort so much work and there's so much in there that really can you can build crazy things for example kit that is the sample Alpha version app that the communication app that we built now we have a chat that is the we have a room with 2,000 people that were ex able to exchange more than two million messages with file GS uh images whatever among each other in a full peer-to-peer way without blockchain really fully peer-to-peer that is something I I think that is one of the most complex coordination efforts that Humanity ever went through um you know I I wish I mean it's in in insights it's not even that difficult but it's just the focus of of building that and the reason why we were able to achieve that as well is that the fact that we have of course great talent Matias bu is the COO of Pop punch is a great one of the greatest Engineers but also we had the commitment and the capital from tedar to not have to build everything for for gaining yet another dime we could open source basically everything and H hundreds of projects and repositories are now open source for that so we could build it in a way that it's built so that not even us is such a Unstoppable technology that is built without controls inside without string the touch so that you can keep surviving and will be a net positive for Humanity so I'm you mentioned that bit torrent was perfect so there was no need to to improve it but I always found it fascinating that there was never a uh like there's no incentive layer in the bit torrent right so so like for popular files you know they will be there because many people will be seeding them but for something less popular there's no incentive so I was always surprised that nothing no incentive layer ever on top of bit torent ever became popular I'm sure they exist but uh to yeah now I think Justin created a borian token exactly I don't think it's the right approach so you know big uh very popular files you have the inherent incentive to you know buy their own distribution of course because if you have a great file that everyone want to see of course super legal file that everyone want to see then uh then uh that is your incentive now then on the other side I think the where bitor a little bit fail failed in is like it you need to be able to if I have a file for example I want to be able to create almost like federations among my family and friends so if I have a specific file it's not like I want the rest of the world being able to access it right I don't want to publish it on this super huge DHD and make it available to every one so the beauty the reason why we started creating the whole punch protocols is that you can you should be able to create your own bitor network among three people among your own family right so without having to go through the huge Bor network is almost as like a very frati way of thinking about things so if you want imagine that you want to share with your family you want to have a repository of all your family photos right that the inner interest or incentive of your family is to look at the photos because it's are the photos of your family so now you don't need to waste everyone's time in uh in in uh in you know creating incentiv for for everyone to be participating on sharing you know encrypted versions of your photos you still have the inner interest in Sharing stuff within your family and most of the realization is that like the phones that we have today are like 10 times more powerful than the Mainframe server of 10 years ago they have ton of storage and also you can install at home you have like you can you can have a laptop at home or you can have anything or you can even use cloud backup storage if you really wanted to but for most of the people like most of the devices are more than enough to keep all the family photos forever because with peer-to-peer techque if you had your own small bit or network across like the five I phones of your family it would be infinite storage more than what you are paying Apple for and you would have your own resiliency buil team because you can you know can share peer-to-peer the files among each other and create some sort of resiliency and if you want more resiliency you can just pay for additional redundance redundancy layer that is offered by a cloud provider that will just keep you a an encrypted copy of your file so they cannot decrypt you uh decrypt those files and you are safe right so the inanity has to be done Society is built on incentives but incentives and not only monetary incentives right it's just gather maybe is gather incentives is collaboration incentives so there are so you have to build look at from you know the small to the big right um in terms of incentives and interaction incentives I was also curious in your model of of the worst case scenario so so obviously the worst case scenario well I guess the worst case scenario by definition is the worst uh but the bad case scenario has a has a I mean it it can shades of so so I guess the question is um should we should we also optimize for the case where the internet is gone right so like you know superpowers start pillaging each other should we start radio radio radio P2P Network so when I was um researcher at University have work on on a very cool project so and I think that one of the reasons why whole punch is so cool is that one of the core data structures of whole punch and I I tell me if I'm becoming to nerdy here but one of the data structures of of H punch is called hypercore that is a miricle log the beauty of Aer that you can subscribe to the beauty of a am Miracle log is that is a a very uh simple data structure with high throughput so you can keep adding messages and the fact that you are merizing it you can prove the fact that no one tamper with that and you also can understand which point of History you are and so you can do very interesting things so back when I was in university I work on this project where if internet was gone you could still build devices or have devices that that you install in each car and when cars go around the city that are are carriers of information right so it's one of the core functions of a mesh Network you could do things like that so I work for like a military project where you are we in in the battlefield and uh in a battlefield it's crazy because you don't know what you're going to have right you cannot make assumptions so the technology that you build has to be very flexible so that imagine that for three hours you don't have connectivity and then suddenly you have a ble of blep of connectivity you have to be able to sync portion of the of the information and make sure that you don't you know exactly the portion of information you synced and then maybe you don't have any more connectivity and so on right so you need to have these data structures that can you can subscribe to you understand the Integrity of the data structure that or the and the portion that you had so far so actually with whole punch you can create really crazy like catastrophe nuclear words um type of uh type of connectivity system high resiliency connectivity system so that is actually I think about it a lot both when I think about thei strategy communication strategy and so on because it's very important even in in a catastrophic scenario or in a war scenario the satellites will be shut down right so you know is so everything that you have at your disposal will be probably uh uh wavelength uh radio and this like really high latency you need to assume that the latency in a worst scenario is like two days not up to 50 milliseconds yeah I think I think wor mentioning that this technology right now is live and it's live in Apple products actually for the finding like find my iphone find my hair it's actually funny that like the military technology found its way into yeah some of this but yeah ideally we would have this kind of more as like core primitive that everybody can use for their applications instead of it's like a very specialized protocol that only Apple can use absolutely and well they could get there because of distribution right so they distribute this technology across every single product but eventually I think that is something that uh is successful can be you can have an app that that does that in the background of your phone right can be that that in the worst case scenario everyone can turn on that that feature and then you start forming this huge crazy mesh Network right J is just the default and all Operating Systems Support that I wish that that would be definitely it's a it's how it should be 100% yeah well I think we're all building toward that yeah I mean uh we obviously I think three of us definitely nered out on this and there's a lot more to discuss there uh but maybe circling back a little bit to some of the AI topics um so I think you guys are you know seems is very systematic right okay let's let's make sure there's Hardware let's make sure there is you know generic kind of um ability to run the models uh let's make sure this agents are interconnected um what do you think is uh kind of a use case that can showcase the need for uh effectively kind of private uh kind of unsensible you know permissionless AI Tech because I think we are all aligned of values and you know uh like Alex declines to use Google and uh and sell other products for example um great but but most people are not like that right and even if they value privacy they don't actually do anything to to adjust that so what would be interesting products that uh that people can latch on to kind of to start using this tag because that's the only way to do it well imagine that I want to build the best par assistant um you know to me the best par assistant would have access to all my emails all my calendar events all my chats um anything like even even I can keep it enabled all day long and uh and basically should record me because I might want to recall something later it's almost my my mental Palace right would you do you see or do you foresee any way to do it with with an centralized company so would you give full access to everything including your most intimate discussions to an external company I don't think so I mean I think that although many people are using chipt already in for with very privacy sensitive stuff I believe that there is a limit to that is like then assuming that now people are still are already asking their question oh is Alexa listening to me because then they talk about a fridge and the next day they go online and they find an advertisement to a fridge but imagine is that if really every single thing that you say will be listened to and recorded somewhere else and you will never be able to get it back you will never be able to get your life back so someone could actually build an neia assistant and be exactly as precise and as thoughtful on you eventually with time is very very scary so you will be replaceable if you give up all your most intimate thoughts and uh and information that is what is making you then you will be replaceable so the more we we should fight for people not be replaceable we should not make because the more is more otherwise we are just working for a global and make us ourselves redundant so I think that if we want and we should have I want to have the best follow assistant I want to give it all my information but I need to know that that information stays within my devices and written in an encrypted so all the tuning and fine tuning all the training and fine tuning for those Lang large language models or my emails should remain in the data structure that is encrypted and is accessible only to me or anyway if it's there is backup copy I chose where and the the the private key of of that encryption is only mine yeah I mean we we totally agree this is actually something we're working on right now is how to build uh effectively and how to train models in such a way that the even though uh I mean for for base model you know what goes in but the parameters themselves are encrypted um and you can only use it inside T effect tees uh but yeah if you find unit for example on your personal data or distracted with your personal data that's also fully private and kind of enter and encrypted and also all of this is body table to ensure that there is actually a way to continue developing new models yeah oh please please go ahead Al yeah well I just wanted to say that this premise of people not giving uh not being ready to give that much information uh is not quite I think for for majority of people they they they will be okay giving up all their private information and that sort of happens with Gmail right so so I think the same people who are very concerned about Alexa listening to them and sending them fridges they they use Gmail to send all their you know legal documents marriage certificates medical records but now we are going coming from a very passive tool that was fying us for the benefit of one single company there is a difference between you know making money on advertisement versus technically uh replacing us you can actually replace a person so maybe the first people the first uh 10 million people will accept this but when the others will see that the first am million people will be replaced by I then they will become more careful so I think that maybe just because of U uh in immediate interest for people to become more productive some people will accept this but eventually I see that there will be a counter tendency in the future in the long term to avoid this because then you will be replaced and in some countries you will be jailed if people if your information will be obtained in such an intimate way because on your emails sure you send legal documents but it's different than you know most of the people say different things in their house in the privacy of their house rather than what they write in emails they are much more polite in emails rather than what they write in the house so I I would I would say that eventually we will find the balance and people will become more intelligent about it but also another interesting um thing is how do we um because it's one thing to have a technology and that allows you to have this private AI on your site it's another thing to actually make sure that like you need to educate people how to how to install it right how to make sure that it doesn't the data you can get from those devices is quite is quite powerful so there's going to be a an effort right to um to get to get the data so so like we need to educate people how to install the the software exactly in the way that their data doesn't go somewhere uh and they would need to be a to have a like they would need to have a way to judge which actors are good which actors are bad who is like who's on their side who is not right it's like the most private uh search we had was D go right and uh the only the only way we know that DDO was not collecting our data is that that their terms of services was saying that was the case right which is very weak I think one of the most interesting things in my opinion is that um search will change you know I when since I was a kid I always streamed to build my own search engine um I think the there's a something in search engines is like a search engine is a proxy for human knowledge right is such a we see it as a search form but so much more deep than that um and so I think that with a I um the ability of AI of that AI has of summarizing information will change search forever so I I think we you know D go is a good example like they act actually they indexed something but also they are relying on other search engines to provide more like fresh information so on so that is not great that is not a sustainable solution right you don't want to be is almost like du du go is a proxy to hide yourself behind but in the end the information will still get to the to Bing for example yeah to not yes so maybe I think the way to build a search engine is to have like distributed knowledge and have like peer-to-peer uh um search right so and the fact that AI can compress a lot of information you can have actually you could think about AI summarization techniques to compress ton of information in in in smaller forms so that can be distributed more easily so that are things that U I think are very exciting for me and I think the world will change around that so um even even search will become more private over time just because I think that uh eventually we are going we as in the crypto industry we will figure out ways where also data can be distributed redundant and can be accessed peer-to-peer and search peer-to-peer um because we can get levels of comprehension that were not easily possible before thanks to like llm summerization I have a couple other questions about you know we we discussed a lot of things they they were populating in my que so so I will be jumping between the things we were discussing but one is you mentioned a couple times already the concept of replacing a human right uh and I think it's an interesting concept because to some extent uh for many people the the replacement they would prefer not to happen is they would prefer machines not to take their jobs right because the job is a very important part of our lives and that will happen whether it happens does not depend on on Alexa listening to people right so either AI becomes good enough to replace humans right or it doesn't become good enough to replace humans right so so like that's somewhat talken right but but but I think this is not quite what you're talking about right you're talking more about like replacing the identity of the human if I understand what you mean right reping Society replacing so so replacing a particular human as a unit of society right yeah but uh but but isn't uh like I'm trying like in my model in my model of the world there's a human outside of the internet right like I I go to a uh I don't know like like my local game store to play Magic the Gathering right so so that that unit of society cannot be replaced with uh with a then there's another me who goes to MTG Arena to play Magic the Gathering that unit of society can be replaced so so maybe it's not such a a thing if our online identities gets replaced and we have to spend more time in the wild well you can see it multiple ways right so I think that n so we should look at the big picture as well as like I predict that in the next five to seven years every car manufacturer will start building humanoid robots and um you have Tesla for sure now but they have the the assembly lines to do renoid robots and if you have renoid robots plus AI funny because when you have that it's not like you can install easily an open-source brain right so they will come it's like if you buy a BMW it has its own entertaining system it's not like easy to go in there and say oh well well now I will put Linux into it sure but if you put Linux into it then the car will start crashing you in the wall because it's not any more certified is not great right so most of these humanoid robots will will have will have very close Source brains so in the next 10 years you'll I mean you see that many big companies already said that they will start experimenting replacing the people serving at the store with humanoid robots then humanoid robots will have artificial intelligence in their brain right um of course they will not be remotely controled they will have artificial intelligence in the brain So eventually you might play you might need to play Magic gather Gathering against the UN robot so and then might become better than you right So eventually the the replacement of humans will happen in almost any possible scenario a part one in my opinion so one of the best investments that in my opinion one of the best investments that we're doing is called black C narch you could say that black her narch is a competitor to Nar link but actually Nar link is a competitor to Black narch doesn't have to do anything with black rock so I think the only way for humans to survive to the growth of AI and machines and the you know evil control of AI will be having a mathematical co-process in their brain our brain now is very is very is great but is very limited um any thought any idea you have in your brain is so colorful so powerful so detailed and then you speak it or you traduce it in a natural language or in a programming language that is a compression form from your of your origin original idea so when you do that you will lose a lot of information and also the latency of communication is super high and by way the natural language so why is this is in this way because it you know the way we express our thoughts historically has been through a mechanical system that is our voice right so you cannot you cannot do anything else but compressing creating a system that only can adapt to voice to compress the information you have in your brain so we what we need is actually in order to remain to not be replaced we need to be able to continue our Evolution as Homo sapiens sapience sapience so sapience cube in order to to to remain unique and not become just meat for for AI so the if you want really to bring the discussion further or on on human replacement then it's not just about jobs you're completely right but eventually if uh if AI will start assuming personas and these personas will become more and more complex and will will go around the world that can become kind of Matrix like and uh maybe I'm wrong but even if there is 1% chances that is that I'm right maybe it's we should do something about it right so I think about this problems all day long basically yeah so another question I had was you mentioned you guys about to start training large language models so I'm curious if this is something uh that will be like you know sponsored by I don't know tether and created as a as a public good or if you have a like some ideas of how those models will be sustainable like will they be hosted through the API will they be open source what is the plan there so we plan to we plan to create uh well have different uh different strategies so first of all the especially for medical um a for medical research centers with plan to provide some uh um some free allocation I think is very very important you know one of is much more important that we devote this uh this AI power to medical research rather than you know using it to I don't know um solve some an integral or derivative uh faster right so sure everything is is is helpful but I think that if um you know human health is is is very important so also second the idea is to um so we see the importance of of being able to create models that can run locally it can be um trained and fine-tuned locally so you have um I would imagine right now if you run a three billion token on a $30 smartphone you get six tokens per second on an iPhone you get around 200 tokens per second that is kind of our Benchmark um so but uh if you take an iPhone of five years ago uh it was like uh 10 tokens per second um so the leap I think that there will be a huge generational leap on the next uh few generations of of uh of um Edge uh gpus um so that will lead also the ability of doing starting from an existing model doing any way local uh training and fine-tuning of course you lose some performance and precision uh compared to the large super larg language models like one trillion tokens for example but um the on the other side the the way I see it is that it's much you can compensate that having a very distributed peer-to-peer network of agents and models that for example you have you can have the best chemistry model in the world that only knows about chemistry and then you have the best physics one the best you know Italian cooking pasta cooking model and so on so you go actually much more vertical and then you build orchestration tools and you build like bigger models on top of them in order for for for getting access to this more vertical knowledge so I think we need to actually start fractalized um the way we see we see um the the concept of models so that eventually you can train them with Comm common Hardware rather than having the need of of of creating these huge models also because I think eventually companies like openi and similar will struggle to have um we will struggle a lot to keep accessing the amount of information that are accessing now so I think that people will become smarter and smarter uh in terms of not publishing everything public for the congest for for for for the consumption of openi right so think about the think about how search will change as we said before you the entire search business has been um kept together by advertisement but now you go on Google you search something and jini gets you a summary of that information and uh if sumbody gets a summary of the information you're searching for then you have less incentives to click on any link and if you don't have you don't click on any link you will not generate other revenues for the people that created that content so the way information will be privatize is going to be mind-blowing in the next five five years mark my words so um how it so the only way to scale that is actually building a an super scalable super decentralized network of agents that will run their own data stores with their own fine tune data and they can monetize that yeah I mean I think effectively copyright is going to die in next five years because yeah like copyright is the Gutenberg Press technology and it cannot apply to effect this recombination of data into like compressed data into models absolutely yeah so I think there's there's a lot of you know obviously discussions from here to take but we are actually out of time uh I really appreciate you coming I think we need to continue this conversation there's a lot uh on both on both sides that I think we can work together yes we could speak for days and days and days exactly yeah yeah I think I think we separately need to nerd out on like the networking St stuff because I think both both you you and us uh find this fascinating um but yeah I think I wanted to thank you for coming uh hope this was informative for folks what tether's doing as well as how you see kind of the evolution here here uh there's a lot of philosophical questions to be discovered by all of us as we pushing this envelope uh but I think it's it's exciting time to live for sure science fiction is yeah turning live so as speak yes sorry I was saying that un we are not going to have the positronic brain of of um of um azimov books right so the three laws of uh of Robotics I don't think there is an actual way to to enforce them so we we actually been speaking about this so one one of the Frameworks we we look through is a formal verification and so we kind of see actually as the future of software uh as well as like other places requires formal proofs because without form proofs like all software is going to be broken by malicious AI effect so you need like actually completely correct software but so if you apply that same principle you can actually require that whoever you call proves to you that they follow specific rules and so if we can formalize aimos you know Three Laws uh we can potentially you know have that as part of the interactions we we uh we maintain very cool I like this additional nerd out it's worth mentioning the the was was four laws before before his death this main protagonist came up with the zero I will I will leave it to people to Google it to Google and to read the books all right well thank you very much and uh hope everyone enjoy the conversation I did bye thank you","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T05:14:54.257Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":2,"text":"near to one we're close to won't stop us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2s"},{"start_seconds":9,"text":"now together we'll redefine the game when near we'll find the flame","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=9s"},{"start_seconds":17,"text":"empowered Minds rise and soore use your own AI we'll explore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=17s"},{"start_seconds":31,"text":"hold the future hand in hand in this tax driven","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=31s"},{"start_seconds":39,"text":"Wonderland okay hello hello we have the another episode of neari office hours today we have Paulo joining CEO of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=39s"},{"start_seconds":48,"text":"tether and uh also uh CDO of bitf finx I think co-founder of whole punch and lots","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=48s"},{"start_seconds":56,"text":"of other things I'm sure um so thanks for coming very excited to have the conversation on AI on how uh kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=56s"},{"start_seconds":65,"text":"future evolves with money with you know stable coins as well um and what you guys are also I know you've uh you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=65s"},{"start_seconds":74,"text":"you've guys announced that you're doing AI stuff on your side as well so welcome do you want to give like quick intro and also how you've been thinking about the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=74s"},{"start_seconds":82,"text":"space sure and thank you for having me is very very exciting I think that uh AI is uh has always been one one of my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=82s"},{"start_seconds":90,"text":"passions um definitely um this uh this the last two years uh made it even more possible","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=90s"},{"start_seconds":98,"text":"given you know the um the growth of tedar and so our a augmented capabilities but basically just for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=98s"},{"start_seconds":107,"text":"people that don't know me I'm Pao ardino I'm the CEO at teder as as you said I'm a I'm a science um computer Scientist by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=107s"},{"start_seconds":115,"text":"formation I coded started coding when I was very very young nerd about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=115s"},{"start_seconds":121,"text":"sci-fi um um anything that relates to New Dimensions of words um so I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=121s"},{"start_seconds":130,"text":"probably as Mo be my preferred author um so all checks out I think um and yeah I you know very very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=130s"},{"start_seconds":138,"text":"excited to be here so thank you for the opportunity for sure yeah yeah we're big fans of asumo as Alex as well and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=138s"},{"start_seconds":146,"text":"sci-fi in general so yeah maybe uh kind of the the topic to you know start from is uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=146s"},{"start_seconds":155,"text":"mean we we talk a lot about kind of user owned Ai and you know why why it's important uh but I think it's still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=155s"},{"start_seconds":162,"text":"worse you know kind of from your perspective what is the like what is the importance you know how does this been","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=162s"},{"start_seconds":170,"text":"in like how does values of crypto right they obviously been in crypto for a long time informing you how you see the AI space and how it should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=170s"},{"start_seconds":178,"text":"evolve yeah I think look the until two years ago you you wouldn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=178s"},{"start_seconds":185,"text":"walk in the streets and hear people talking about Chach or oi in general was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=185s"},{"start_seconds":191,"text":"such a um two years ago feels like more more like 20 years ago in terms of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=191s"},{"start_seconds":199,"text":"awareness of of AI as um as a technology with one of the most incredible","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=199s"},{"start_seconds":206,"text":"Potentials in in the world and um so that kind of scares me already because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=206s"},{"start_seconds":213,"text":"um what we see now in AI is very centralized um there are multiple reasons for that um building uh larger","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=213s"},{"start_seconds":221,"text":"language models I think is the one of the most obvious um products of of this AI Sprint that we had in the last few","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=221s"},{"start_seconds":230,"text":"years is very very expensive so um you for sure have seen how Elon Musk built","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=230s"},{"start_seconds":238,"text":"100, 8 200 and 100 GPU cluster it comes very very expensive I can tell you that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=238s"},{"start_seconds":245,"text":"like so it's not like any like random person can uh can think to compete with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=245s"},{"start_seconds":252,"text":"that size of models and access to human knowledge and data all together in a single place to build a very very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=252s"},{"start_seconds":259,"text":"comprehensive model so the fact that is already an um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=259s"},{"start_seconds":266,"text":"elarium um effort kind of uh defeats some of the principles that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=266s"},{"start_seconds":273,"text":"think brought us into the crypto space um the ability to run their your own node the ability to or or you know build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=273s"},{"start_seconds":281,"text":"or be your own validator control your own money it's um it's the core of the ethos and philosophy of crypto and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=281s"},{"start_seconds":290,"text":"why Bitcoin started right in in 2008 was that the ability of or your the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=290s"},{"start_seconds":296,"text":"necessity of making sure that you don't have to trust others in order to be a self- sovereign","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=296s"},{"start_seconds":303,"text":"individual um and while it's great that we have Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to Sol the monetary","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=303s"},{"start_seconds":310,"text":"part of our Lives everything else is very very centralized you know I'm as a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=310s"},{"start_seconds":317,"text":"as a nerd and and you as a as a developer you know I I made among my uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=317s"},{"start_seconds":325,"text":"well I really love every sort of books but uh you know been formed my my mind has been formed over the years about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=325s"},{"start_seconds":334,"text":"thinking about the worst case scenario always and so I feel like the way I try to describe it to people is that when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=334s"},{"start_seconds":341,"text":"you open a smartphone and you pick 20 apps that you have in a smartphone um they will only work in the best case scenario where the best case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=341s"},{"start_seconds":349,"text":"scenario is the word is largely largely at peace uh there are not major uh natural catastrophes no Global Wars","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=349s"},{"start_seconds":359,"text":"whatever like those you know WhatsApp and similar will keep working when in the best cave scenario in the worst case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=359s"},{"start_seconds":367,"text":"scenario nothing that you have on your phone everything that you have been used to um every single tool that you're using to speak and interact with your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=367s"},{"start_seconds":376,"text":"family friends and co-workers they it will stop working suddenly and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=376s"},{"start_seconds":382,"text":"um and the more we invest in AI the more we build um uh you know productivity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=382s"},{"start_seconds":389,"text":"around ai ai being centralized will also fail us in the in the times when maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=389s"},{"start_seconds":396,"text":"we will need it the most so the realization that we need to start pivoting towards Building Technology that is resistant to the wrath of God","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=396s"},{"start_seconds":405,"text":"and resistant in the worst case scenario is what excites me makes sense yeah I I also use this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=405s"},{"start_seconds":412,"text":"example where right now effectively open AI you know assuming and and I think everybody really you know sees this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=412s"},{"start_seconds":419,"text":"happening already AI tooling will become more and more contributor to GDP it will become more and more intervene into how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=419s"},{"start_seconds":426,"text":"business is doing like dayto day imagine open AI is just like you know tomorrow is like you know what guys let's just turn off","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=426s"},{"start_seconds":434,"text":"Germany right Italy more like Italy yeah yeah or Italy or whatever right or EU because like hey we don't want to deal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=434s"},{"start_seconds":442,"text":"with gdpr it's too complicated right I mean meta already just did this saying like hey you cannot use our models in EU and so now you L have like you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=442s"},{"start_seconds":450,"text":"country or the whole region that's not able to access what is effective becoming a massive GDP boost and you know massive life Improvement and kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=450s"},{"start_seconds":458,"text":"of potentially core businesses built around this and that's like that's not anymore already like a you know capitalism that's literally a control","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=458s"},{"start_seconds":466,"text":"and so now when you know whoever runs these companies comes to these countries they effectively have this uh control","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=466s"},{"start_seconds":474,"text":"over those countries now to be able to effectively say heyy we're going to turn off 20% of your GDP you know this is just like a fireball rule right so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=474s"},{"start_seconds":482,"text":"think like to me that's like it and and again this can happen because the government decided like specific government decided to do this or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=482s"},{"start_seconds":491,"text":"whatever or like individual or company like that's a very dangerous situation that we're like really moving quickly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=491s"},{"start_seconds":499,"text":"into and so yeah like very much agree that we need to build for a really like a permissionless usage of this technology and ability to do this and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=499s"},{"start_seconds":508,"text":"think the interesting kind of point that we've been facing is that the problem is the open source right also doesn't have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=508s"},{"start_seconds":515,"text":"money and doesn't have ability to you know invest uh to for context uh I think Elan musk's cluster is about3 billion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=515s"},{"start_seconds":524,"text":"dollar to build so yeah open source like you know somebody sitting in research institutes definitely don't have access to this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=524s"},{"start_seconds":532,"text":"kind of compute power um although you know prices are going down and uh for h100s in general so one of the things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=532s"},{"start_seconds":540,"text":"we've been spending a lot of time is like how do we uh how do we create a open source you know permissionless but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=540s"},{"start_seconds":548,"text":"also monetizable uh system for AI and I think I mean I I know you've guys also been kind of looking around uh I'm curious","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=548s"},{"start_seconds":556,"text":"kind of what you've guys been uh looking at in this area yeah look we have three so first of all T started","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=556s"},{"start_seconds":565,"text":"with um doing a very important strategic step so we purchase the majority","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=565s"},{"start_seconds":574,"text":"interest in a company called norn data that has In This Moment 24,000 gpus um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=574s"},{"start_seconds":582,"text":"is not 100 but it's still um is honest work and um the reason why we did that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=582s"},{"start_seconds":590,"text":"is in order we wanted to create the first or the biggest independent uh AI infrastructure provider in the world","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=590s"},{"start_seconds":599,"text":"to us that that is very very important because we need to be um less dependent from Google Microsoft and Amazon that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=599s"},{"start_seconds":608,"text":"are and now X that are actually capturing the majority of the output of Nvidia I believe in the future we will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=608s"},{"start_seconds":617,"text":"see more more specialized um chips more ASX chips that will um uh be perfect and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=617s"},{"start_seconds":624,"text":"accomplish certain you know certain or be designed for a specific type of model models so that the cost of of chips will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=624s"},{"start_seconds":632,"text":"go down and there will be less general purpose but it's a great way to scale things I think but for the time being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=632s"},{"start_seconds":640,"text":"you know we wanted to start from that step because you know you could have the greatest ideas but if you don't have if you you you don't have control over your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=640s"},{"start_seconds":647,"text":"own infrastructure I think you are kind of that second um we we have a very good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=647s"},{"start_seconds":655,"text":"and uh and well trained um AI training team so we are searching um existing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=655s"},{"start_seconds":663,"text":"papers and we are looking to build our own models so and train our own models so that is something that we started","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=663s"},{"start_seconds":671,"text":"doing since the last six months so we formed a team that runs fully within tar","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=671s"},{"start_seconds":678,"text":"data third we are building a software development kit um that uh is going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=678s"},{"start_seconds":685,"text":"be um the aim of this software development key is actually been uh with the same code you can run um a model","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=685s"},{"start_seconds":695,"text":"from um on a $30 smartphone on a embedded device on a smart TV or on a smart fridge or a car entertainment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=695s"},{"start_seconds":704,"text":"system or a laptop on a server uh Mainframe server with eight gpus eight","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=704s"},{"start_seconds":711,"text":"eight eight h00 gpus or multiple server with hundreds or thousands of gpus same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=711s"},{"start_seconds":718,"text":"code uh of course if you are in a $30 smartphone you would pick a model that has like 500 um million tokens you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=718s"},{"start_seconds":726,"text":"the more you scale you can scale up and down but same code base same logic runs everywhere the reason why we are doing this is and also we are building a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=726s"},{"start_seconds":735,"text":"communication layer based on whole punch that allows the creation of like uh a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=735s"},{"start_seconds":742,"text":"hoorde uh of tens of millions of AI agents fully peer-to-peer uh with without any Central server that can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=742s"},{"start_seconds":751,"text":"interact within between each other without any sort of uh um you know interference from overlords um and third","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=751s"},{"start_seconds":761,"text":"we added the we we just finished to develop well no we we released the first version of wdk that is called is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=761s"},{"start_seconds":770,"text":"wallet development kit I believe that agents should have their own non-custodial wallets um because um I doubt that um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=770s"},{"start_seconds":780,"text":"you know PayPal will start on boarding AI agents um I think that in the next 10 years we are going to see the um the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=780s"},{"start_seconds":789,"text":"number of transactions made by AI agents be 10 times uh the transactions that humanity is doing so that has to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=789s"},{"start_seconds":798,"text":"peer-to-peer that has to be noncustodial that has to be uh of course nonos doesn't mean that AI agents can start buying their own beer you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=798s"},{"start_seconds":807,"text":"still enforce through you know natural language constraints in the ability or their ability to access the let's say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=807s"},{"start_seconds":815,"text":"the wallet part of things um but um so safety is still very important but it's important also to make sure that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=815s"},{"start_seconds":823,"text":"whatever we build is scalable and is not only controlled by one single company but we can Empower people and developers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=823s"},{"start_seconds":830,"text":"to build um um agent systems and models that can run everywhere and can scale um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=830s"},{"start_seconds":838,"text":"in a very peer-to-peer way yeah I mean there's a lot of turn","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=838s"},{"start_seconds":846,"text":"back here um I actually maybe wanted to start from whole punch because uh I've seen I've seen it before for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=846s"},{"start_seconds":854,"text":"communications for the chat for the chat uh and we also been looking a lot at like how to improve peer-to-peer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=854s"},{"start_seconds":861,"text":"communication how to add a layer of guarantees around that so and I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=861s"},{"start_seconds":868,"text":"also very much that uh going to be a lot of either agents or or services that provide different uh value to other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=868s"},{"start_seconds":875,"text":"agents and kind of how how to interconnect them how they're going to discover each other um so curious maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=875s"},{"start_seconds":883,"text":"yeah like high level just maybe describe whole punch uh and kind of we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=883s"},{"start_seconds":889,"text":"discuss how that works sure so for the people people and I think most of the people are familiar with be torrent you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=889s"},{"start_seconds":898,"text":"know that there one story that I really very much like is the history of f sharing systems so you have U you know at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=898s"},{"start_seconds":907,"text":"beginning was knobster and then knobster were shut down because it was fully centralized and then you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=907s"},{"start_seconds":915,"text":"had um Nutella then you had lime wire then you had e donkey then eony plus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=915s"},{"start_seconds":922,"text":"Cadia and then you had eventually bitor and after borrent you don't have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=922s"},{"start_seconds":929,"text":"much else why because every step before bit torant was basically um was um not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=929s"},{"start_seconds":939,"text":"complete or was lacking or was still relying on certain parts of centralization so for example lime wire","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=939s"},{"start_seconds":946,"text":"had some peer-to-peer fire sharing but the in order to find the files you had to connect to a specific server or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=946s"},{"start_seconds":953,"text":"multiple servers so the indexing so the no the uh the the yeah the indexing the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=953s"},{"start_seconds":961,"text":"the the list of all the files available was centralized and so then you had uh uh you had uh issues","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=961s"},{"start_seconds":971,"text":"with that and so over time also the with bit Tor and bro basically compared to all the previous attempts was fully","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=971s"},{"start_seconds":980,"text":"decentralized um database of all the POS all the different files and also full on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=980s"},{"start_seconds":988,"text":"peerto P fire sharing but on top of that other the technique that is called hole punching that is supported by every","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=988s"},{"start_seconds":995,"text":"basically all the switches in the world that allows you remember sometimes with lime wire or donkey you had to go in the router at home and basically configure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=995s"},{"start_seconds":1004,"text":"it so that you could redirect the connection from the internet to your own computer that that was okay but it was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1004s"},{"start_seconds":1011,"text":"only for the Geeks right my mother couldn't couldn't do that and so what um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1011s"},{"start_seconds":1019,"text":"bitor BR was this whole punch technique that allows to bypass firewalls it's very simple it's not it's very secure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1019s"},{"start_seconds":1026,"text":"it's not like oh now someone everyone can connect my my computer but um it really created a very simple","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1026s"},{"start_seconds":1033,"text":"userfriendly way to connect to two peers that wanted to connect to each other so he had an endshake and if the two peers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1033s"},{"start_seconds":1041,"text":"wanted to connect it could bypass the firewall and bypass all this uh you know complexity in configuring routers and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1041s"},{"start_seconds":1047,"text":"switches and and so on so basically H punch started project started few years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1047s"},{"start_seconds":1055,"text":"ago five years ago with the realization that the bitor protocol that is a set of protocols between hle punching swarms","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1055s"},{"start_seconds":1063,"text":"also bitor had this great idea where if you want to download a file you can also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1063s"},{"start_seconds":1070,"text":"create basically a public attestation of you can split the file in multiple chunks uh or blocks and you can create a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1070s"},{"start_seconds":1078,"text":"public attestation so that suddenly if multiple people you could download the portion of the same file from multiple","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1078s"},{"start_seconds":1085,"text":"people um that could attest to have that portion of the file right so very very cool technique um and um and so we came","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1085s"},{"start_seconds":1095,"text":"to the realization that the DHD the distributed hash table that is the the distributed database that bitor had was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1095s"},{"start_seconds":1103,"text":"great for multiple use cases not just file sharing that swarming so the ability to access content was great for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1103s"},{"start_seconds":1110,"text":"for example live stream um content as well and uh the concept of hole punching and peer to was great for peer-to-peer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1110s"},{"start_seconds":1119,"text":"so you you didn't have to have complex configurations um so basically we started um we started building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1119s"},{"start_seconds":1128,"text":"rebuilding all the whole all the build T um protocols um around the JavaScript and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1128s"},{"start_seconds":1136,"text":"C++ and but we also enrich them with all the knowledge we could gather from the cryptocurrency and the blockchain world","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1136s"},{"start_seconds":1145,"text":"because bit torent was not really focusing on ID for example was not really focusing on more most more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1145s"},{"start_seconds":1152,"text":"complex cryptographical um soluions so we added basically all the cryptography to to add the provability of data and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1152s"},{"start_seconds":1161,"text":"also for example establishing realtime connectivity among different PE peers into whole punch in a very extremely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1161s"},{"start_seconds":1169,"text":"modular way whole punch is actually more than 500 different small repositories of code that all together create you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1169s"},{"start_seconds":1178,"text":"pick any portion of it and use it as Lego to build any sort of interaction you want that's why I think that as of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1178s"},{"start_seconds":1184,"text":"today I think whole punch is the best networking layer for any project","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1184s"},{"start_seconds":1192,"text":"you might want to build full stop right I I believe that we put so much effort so much work and there's so much in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1192s"},{"start_seconds":1199,"text":"there that really can you can build crazy things for example kit that is the sample Alpha version app that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1199s"},{"start_seconds":1207,"text":"communication app that we built now we have a chat that is the we have a room with 2,000 people that were ex able to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1207s"},{"start_seconds":1215,"text":"exchange more than two million messages with file GS uh images whatever among","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1215s"},{"start_seconds":1223,"text":"each other in a full peer-to-peer way without blockchain really fully peer-to-peer that is something I I think that is one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1223s"},{"start_seconds":1231,"text":"of the most complex coordination efforts that Humanity ever went through um you know I I wish I mean it's in in insights","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1231s"},{"start_seconds":1239,"text":"it's not even that difficult but it's just the focus of of building that and the reason why we were able to achieve","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1239s"},{"start_seconds":1246,"text":"that as well is that the fact that we have of course great talent Matias bu is the COO of Pop punch is a great one of the greatest Engineers but also we had","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1246s"},{"start_seconds":1255,"text":"the commitment and the capital from tedar to not have to build everything for for gaining yet another dime we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1255s"},{"start_seconds":1263,"text":"could open source basically everything and H hundreds of projects and repositories are now open source for that so we could build it in a way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1263s"},{"start_seconds":1271,"text":"that it's built so that not even us is such a Unstoppable technology that is built without controls inside without","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1271s"},{"start_seconds":1280,"text":"string the touch so that you can keep surviving and will be a net positive for Humanity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1280s"},{"start_seconds":1289,"text":"so I'm you mentioned that bit torrent was perfect so there was no need to to improve it but I always found it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1289s"},{"start_seconds":1296,"text":"fascinating that there was never a uh like there's no incentive layer in the bit torrent right so so like for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1296s"},{"start_seconds":1304,"text":"popular files you know they will be there because many people will be seeding them but for something less popular there's no incentive so I was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1304s"},{"start_seconds":1311,"text":"always surprised that nothing no incentive layer ever on top of bit torent ever became popular I'm sure they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1311s"},{"start_seconds":1319,"text":"exist but uh to yeah now I think Justin created a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1319s"},{"start_seconds":1325,"text":"borian token exactly I don't think it's the right approach so you know big uh very popular files you have the inherent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1325s"},{"start_seconds":1334,"text":"incentive to you know buy their own distribution of course because if you have a great file that everyone want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1334s"},{"start_seconds":1341,"text":"see of course super legal file that everyone want to see then uh then uh that is your incentive now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1341s"},{"start_seconds":1349,"text":"then on the other side I think the where bitor a little bit fail failed in is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1349s"},{"start_seconds":1355,"text":"like it you need to be able to if I have a file for example I want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1355s"},{"start_seconds":1363,"text":"to be able to create almost like federations among my family and friends so if I have a specific file it's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1363s"},{"start_seconds":1371,"text":"like I want the rest of the world being able to access it right I don't want to publish it on this super huge DHD and make it available to every one so the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1371s"},{"start_seconds":1379,"text":"beauty the reason why we started creating the whole punch protocols is that you can you should be able to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1379s"},{"start_seconds":1387,"text":"create your own bitor network among three people among your own family right so without having to go through the huge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1387s"},{"start_seconds":1394,"text":"Bor network is almost as like a very frati way of thinking about things so if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1394s"},{"start_seconds":1402,"text":"you want imagine that you want to share with your family you want to have a repository of all your family photos right that the inner interest or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1402s"},{"start_seconds":1410,"text":"incentive of your family is to look at the photos because it's are the photos of your family so now you don't need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1410s"},{"start_seconds":1418,"text":"waste everyone's time in uh in in uh in you know creating incentiv for for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1418s"},{"start_seconds":1425,"text":"everyone to be participating on sharing you know encrypted versions of your photos you still have the inner interest in Sharing stuff within your family and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1425s"},{"start_seconds":1434,"text":"most of the realization is that like the phones that we have today are like 10 times more powerful than the Mainframe server of 10 years ago they have ton of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1434s"},{"start_seconds":1443,"text":"storage and also you can install at home you have like you can you can have a laptop at home or you can have anything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1443s"},{"start_seconds":1451,"text":"or you can even use cloud backup storage if you really wanted to but for most of the people like most of the devices are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1451s"},{"start_seconds":1459,"text":"more than enough to keep all the family photos forever because with peer-to-peer techque if you had your own small bit or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1459s"},{"start_seconds":1466,"text":"network across like the five I phones of your family it would be infinite storage more than what you are paying Apple for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1466s"},{"start_seconds":1474,"text":"and you would have your own resiliency buil team because you can you know can share peer-to-peer the files among each other and create some sort of resiliency","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1474s"},{"start_seconds":1483,"text":"and if you want more resiliency you can just pay for additional redundance redundancy layer that is offered by a cloud provider that will just keep you a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1483s"},{"start_seconds":1491,"text":"an encrypted copy of your file so they cannot decrypt you uh decrypt those files and you are safe right so the inanity has to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1491s"},{"start_seconds":1499,"text":"done Society is built on incentives but incentives and not only monetary incentives right it's just gather maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1499s"},{"start_seconds":1506,"text":"is gather incentives is collaboration incentives so there are so you have to build look at from you know the small to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1506s"},{"start_seconds":1513,"text":"the big right um in terms of incentives and interaction incentives I was also curious in your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1513s"},{"start_seconds":1522,"text":"model of of the worst case scenario so so obviously the worst case scenario well I guess the worst case scenario by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1522s"},{"start_seconds":1529,"text":"definition is the worst uh but the bad case scenario has a has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1529s"},{"start_seconds":1535,"text":"a I mean it it can shades of so so I guess the question is um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1535s"},{"start_seconds":1543,"text":"should we should we also optimize for the case where the internet is gone right so like you know superpowers start pillaging each other should we start","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1543s"},{"start_seconds":1552,"text":"radio radio radio P2P Network so when I was um researcher at University have work on on a very cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1552s"},{"start_seconds":1561,"text":"project so and I think that one of the reasons why whole punch is so cool is that one of the core data structures of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1561s"},{"start_seconds":1568,"text":"whole punch and I I tell me if I'm becoming to nerdy here but one of the data structures of of H punch is called hypercore that is a miricle log the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1568s"},{"start_seconds":1577,"text":"beauty of Aer that you can subscribe to the beauty of a am Miracle log is that is a a very uh simple data structure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1577s"},{"start_seconds":1585,"text":"with high throughput so you can keep adding messages and the fact that you are merizing it you can prove the fact that no one tamper with that and you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1585s"},{"start_seconds":1592,"text":"also can understand which point of History you are and so you can do very interesting things so back when I was in university I work","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1592s"},{"start_seconds":1601,"text":"on this project where if internet was gone you could still build devices or have devices that that you install in each car and when cars go around the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1601s"},{"start_seconds":1609,"text":"city that are are carriers of information right so it's one of the core functions of a mesh Network you could do things like that so I work for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1609s"},{"start_seconds":1619,"text":"like a military project where you are we in in the battlefield and uh in a battlefield it's crazy because you don't know what you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1619s"},{"start_seconds":1627,"text":"going to have right you cannot make assumptions so the technology that you build has to be very flexible so that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1627s"},{"start_seconds":1637,"text":"imagine that for three hours you don't have connectivity and then suddenly you have a ble of blep of connectivity you have to be able to sync portion of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1637s"},{"start_seconds":1644,"text":"of the information and make sure that you don't you know exactly the portion of information you synced and then maybe you don't have any more connectivity and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1644s"},{"start_seconds":1652,"text":"so on right so you need to have these data structures that can you can subscribe to you understand the Integrity of the data structure that or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1652s"},{"start_seconds":1661,"text":"the and the portion that you had so far so actually with whole punch you can create really crazy like catastrophe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1661s"},{"start_seconds":1669,"text":"nuclear words um type of uh type of connectivity system high resiliency connectivity system so that is actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1669s"},{"start_seconds":1677,"text":"I think about it a lot both when I think about thei strategy communication strategy and so on because it's very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1677s"},{"start_seconds":1685,"text":"important even in in a catastrophic scenario or in a war scenario the satellites will be shut down right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1685s"},{"start_seconds":1691,"text":"you know is so everything that you have at your disposal will be probably uh uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1691s"},{"start_seconds":1698,"text":"wavelength uh radio and this like really high latency you need to assume that the latency in a worst scenario is like two","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1698s"},{"start_seconds":1706,"text":"days not up to 50 milliseconds yeah I think I think wor","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1706s"},{"start_seconds":1714,"text":"mentioning that this technology right now is live and it's live in Apple products actually for the finding like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1714s"},{"start_seconds":1722,"text":"find my iphone find my hair it's actually funny that like the military technology found its way into yeah some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1722s"},{"start_seconds":1731,"text":"of this but yeah ideally we would have this kind of more as like core primitive that everybody can use for their applications instead of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1731s"},{"start_seconds":1738,"text":"it's like a very specialized protocol that only Apple can use absolutely and well they could get there because of distribution right so they distribute","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1738s"},{"start_seconds":1747,"text":"this technology across every single product but eventually I think that is something that uh is successful can be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1747s"},{"start_seconds":1754,"text":"you can have an app that that does that in the background of your phone right can be that that in the worst case scenario everyone can turn on that that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1754s"},{"start_seconds":1763,"text":"feature and then you start forming this huge crazy mesh Network right J is just the default and all Operating Systems Support that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1763s"},{"start_seconds":1772,"text":"wish that that would be definitely it's a it's how it should be 100% yeah well I think we're all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1772s"},{"start_seconds":1780,"text":"building toward that yeah I mean uh we obviously I think three of us definitely nered out on this and there's a lot more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1780s"},{"start_seconds":1787,"text":"to discuss there uh but maybe circling back a little bit to some of the AI topics um so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1787s"},{"start_seconds":1795,"text":"think you guys are you know seems is very systematic right okay let's let's make sure there's Hardware let's make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1795s"},{"start_seconds":1802,"text":"sure there is you know generic kind of um ability to run the models uh let's make sure this agents are interconnected","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1802s"},{"start_seconds":1811,"text":"um what do you think is uh kind of a use case that can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1811s"},{"start_seconds":1819,"text":"showcase the need for uh effectively kind of private uh kind of unsensible you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1819s"},{"start_seconds":1828,"text":"permissionless AI Tech because I think we are all aligned of values and you know uh like Alex declines to use Google","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1828s"},{"start_seconds":1836,"text":"and uh and sell other products for example um great but but most people are not like that right and even if they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1836s"},{"start_seconds":1844,"text":"value privacy they don't actually do anything to to adjust that so what would be interesting products that uh that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1844s"},{"start_seconds":1851,"text":"people can latch on to kind of to start using this tag because that's the only way to do it well imagine that I want to build the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1851s"},{"start_seconds":1860,"text":"best par assistant um you know to me the best par assistant would have access to all my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1860s"},{"start_seconds":1866,"text":"emails all my calendar events all my chats um anything like even even I can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1866s"},{"start_seconds":1875,"text":"keep it enabled all day long and uh and basically should record me because I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1875s"},{"start_seconds":1884,"text":"might want to recall something later it's almost my my mental Palace right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1884s"},{"start_seconds":1891,"text":"would you do you see or do you foresee any way to do it with with an centralized company so would you give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1891s"},{"start_seconds":1899,"text":"full access to everything including your most intimate discussions to an external company I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1899s"},{"start_seconds":1906,"text":"don't think so I mean I think that although many people are using chipt already in for with very privacy sensitive stuff I believe that there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1906s"},{"start_seconds":1915,"text":"a limit to that is like then assuming that now people are still are already asking their question oh is Alexa","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1915s"},{"start_seconds":1924,"text":"listening to me because then they talk about a fridge and the next day they go online and they find an advertisement to a fridge but imagine is that if really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1924s"},{"start_seconds":1933,"text":"every single thing that you say will be listened to and recorded somewhere else and you will never be able to get it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1933s"},{"start_seconds":1940,"text":"back you will never be able to get your life back so someone could actually build an neia assistant","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1940s"},{"start_seconds":1949,"text":"and be exactly as precise and as thoughtful on you eventually with time is very very scary so you will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1949s"},{"start_seconds":1957,"text":"replaceable if you give up all your most intimate thoughts and uh and information that is what is making you then you will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1957s"},{"start_seconds":1967,"text":"be replaceable so the more we we should fight for people not be replaceable we should not make because the more is more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1967s"},{"start_seconds":1975,"text":"otherwise we are just working for a global and make us ourselves redundant so I think that if we want and we should have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1975s"},{"start_seconds":1983,"text":"I want to have the best follow assistant I want to give it all my information but I need to know that that information","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1983s"},{"start_seconds":1990,"text":"stays within my devices and written in an encrypted so all the tuning and fine tuning all the training and fine tuning","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1990s"},{"start_seconds":1999,"text":"for those Lang large language models or my emails should remain in the data structure that is encrypted and is accessible only to me or anyway if it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=1999s"},{"start_seconds":2007,"text":"there is backup copy I chose where and the the the private key of of that encryption is only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2007s"},{"start_seconds":2020,"text":"mine yeah I mean we we totally agree this is actually something we're working on right now is how to build uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2020s"},{"start_seconds":2027,"text":"effectively and how to train models in such a way that the even though uh I mean for for base model you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2027s"},{"start_seconds":2035,"text":"know what goes in but the parameters themselves are encrypted um and you can only use it inside T effect","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2035s"},{"start_seconds":2043,"text":"tees uh but yeah if you find unit for example on your personal data or distracted with your personal data that's also fully private and kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2043s"},{"start_seconds":2051,"text":"enter and encrypted and also all of this is body table to ensure that there is actually a way to continue developing new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2051s"},{"start_seconds":2059,"text":"models yeah oh please please go ahead Al yeah well I just wanted to say that this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2059s"},{"start_seconds":2067,"text":"premise of people not giving uh not being ready to give that much information uh is not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2067s"},{"start_seconds":2075,"text":"quite I think for for majority of people they they they will be okay giving up all their private information and that sort of happens with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2075s"},{"start_seconds":2083,"text":"Gmail right so so I think the same people who are very concerned about Alexa listening to them and sending them fridges they they use Gmail to send all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2083s"},{"start_seconds":2091,"text":"their you know legal documents marriage certificates medical records but now we are going coming from a very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2091s"},{"start_seconds":2101,"text":"passive tool that was fying us for the benefit of one single company there is a difference between","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2101s"},{"start_seconds":2108,"text":"you know making money on advertisement versus technically uh replacing us you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2108s"},{"start_seconds":2117,"text":"actually replace a person so maybe the first people the first uh 10 million","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2117s"},{"start_seconds":2124,"text":"people will accept this but when the others will see that the first am million people will be replaced by I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2124s"},{"start_seconds":2133,"text":"then they will become more careful so I think that maybe just because of U uh in immediate interest for people to become","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2133s"},{"start_seconds":2141,"text":"more productive some people will accept this but eventually I see that there will be a counter tendency in the future","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2141s"},{"start_seconds":2149,"text":"in the long term to avoid this because then you will be replaced and in some countries you will be jailed if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2149s"},{"start_seconds":2158,"text":"people if your information will be obtained in such an intimate way because on your emails sure you send legal documents but it's different than you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2158s"},{"start_seconds":2167,"text":"know most of the people say different things in their house in the privacy of their house rather than what they write in emails they are much more polite in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2167s"},{"start_seconds":2175,"text":"emails rather than what they write in the house so I I would I would say that eventually we will find the balance and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2175s"},{"start_seconds":2183,"text":"people will become more intelligent about it but also another interesting um thing is how do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2183s"},{"start_seconds":2191,"text":"we um because it's one thing to have a technology and that allows you to have this private AI on your site it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2191s"},{"start_seconds":2199,"text":"another thing to actually make sure that like you need to educate people how to how to install it right how to make sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2199s"},{"start_seconds":2207,"text":"that it doesn't the data you can get from those devices is quite is quite powerful so there's going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2207s"},{"start_seconds":2216,"text":"a an effort right to um to get to get the data so so like we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2216s"},{"start_seconds":2224,"text":"need to educate people how to install the the software exactly in the way that their data doesn't go somewhere uh and they would need to be a to have a like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2224s"},{"start_seconds":2233,"text":"they would need to have a way to judge which actors are good which actors are bad who is like who's on their side who is not right it's like the most private","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2233s"},{"start_seconds":2241,"text":"uh search we had was D go right and uh the only the only way we know that DDO was not collecting our data is that that their terms of services was saying that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2241s"},{"start_seconds":2249,"text":"was the case right which is very weak I think one of the most interesting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2249s"},{"start_seconds":2256,"text":"things in my opinion is that um search will change you know I when since I was a kid I always streamed to build my own search","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2256s"},{"start_seconds":2264,"text":"engine um I think the there's a something in search engines is like a search engine is a proxy for human","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2264s"},{"start_seconds":2272,"text":"knowledge right is such a we see it as a search form but so much more deep than","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2272s"},{"start_seconds":2279,"text":"that um and so I think that with a I um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2279s"},{"start_seconds":2285,"text":"the ability of AI of that AI has of summarizing information will change search","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2285s"},{"start_seconds":2293,"text":"forever so I I think we you know D go is a good example like they act actually they indexed something but also they are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2293s"},{"start_seconds":2302,"text":"relying on other search engines to provide more like fresh information so on so that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2302s"},{"start_seconds":2310,"text":"not great that is not a sustainable solution right you don't want to be is almost like du du go is a proxy to hide yourself behind but in the end the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2310s"},{"start_seconds":2319,"text":"information will still get to the to Bing for example yeah to not yes so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2319s"},{"start_seconds":2326,"text":"maybe I think the way to build a search engine is to have like distributed knowledge and have like peer-to-peer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2326s"},{"start_seconds":2333,"text":"uh um search right so and the fact that AI can compress a lot of information you can have actually you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2333s"},{"start_seconds":2342,"text":"could think about AI summarization techniques to compress ton of information in in in smaller forms so that can be distributed more easily so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2342s"},{"start_seconds":2350,"text":"that are things that U I think are very exciting for me and I think the world will change around that so um even even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2350s"},{"start_seconds":2358,"text":"search will become more private over time just because I think that uh eventually we are going we as in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2358s"},{"start_seconds":2367,"text":"crypto industry we will figure out ways where also data can be distributed redundant and can be accessed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2367s"},{"start_seconds":2375,"text":"peer-to-peer and search peer-to-peer um because we can get levels of comprehension that were not easily","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2375s"},{"start_seconds":2382,"text":"possible before thanks to like llm summerization I have a couple other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2382s"},{"start_seconds":2390,"text":"questions about you know we we discussed a lot of things they they were populating in my que so so I will be jumping between the things we were discussing but one is you mentioned a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2390s"},{"start_seconds":2398,"text":"couple times already the concept of replacing a human right uh and I think it's an interesting concept because to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2398s"},{"start_seconds":2406,"text":"some extent uh for many people the the replacement they would prefer not to happen is they would prefer machines not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2406s"},{"start_seconds":2413,"text":"to take their jobs right because the job is a very important part of our lives and that will happen whether it happens does not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2413s"},{"start_seconds":2422,"text":"depend on on Alexa listening to people right so either AI becomes good enough to replace humans right or it doesn't become good enough to replace humans right so so like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2422s"},{"start_seconds":2430,"text":"that's somewhat talken right but but but I think this is not quite what you're talking about right you're talking more about like replacing the identity of the human if I understand what you mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2430s"},{"start_seconds":2439,"text":"right reping Society replacing so so replacing a particular human as a unit of society","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2439s"},{"start_seconds":2445,"text":"right yeah but uh but but isn't uh like I'm trying like in my model in my model of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2445s"},{"start_seconds":2453,"text":"the world there's a human outside of the internet right like I I go to a uh I don't know like like my local game store","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2453s"},{"start_seconds":2460,"text":"to play Magic the Gathering right so so that that unit of society cannot be replaced with uh with a then there's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2460s"},{"start_seconds":2468,"text":"another me who goes to MTG Arena to play Magic the Gathering that unit of society can be replaced so so maybe it's not such a a thing if our online identities","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2468s"},{"start_seconds":2476,"text":"gets replaced and we have to spend more time in the wild well you can see it multiple ways right so I think that n so we should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2476s"},{"start_seconds":2484,"text":"look at the big picture as well as like I predict that in the next five to seven years every car manufacturer will start building humanoid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2484s"},{"start_seconds":2492,"text":"robots and um you have Tesla for sure now but they have the the assembly lines to do renoid robots and if you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2492s"},{"start_seconds":2501,"text":"renoid robots plus AI funny because when you have that it's not like you can install easily an open-source brain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2501s"},{"start_seconds":2508,"text":"right so they will come it's like if you buy a BMW it has its own entertaining system it's not like easy to go in there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2508s"},{"start_seconds":2516,"text":"and say oh well well now I will put Linux into it sure but if you put Linux into it then the car will start crashing you in the wall because it's not any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2516s"},{"start_seconds":2524,"text":"more certified is not great right so most of these humanoid robots will will have will have very close","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2524s"},{"start_seconds":2534,"text":"Source brains so in the next 10 years you'll I mean you see that many big companies already said that they will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2534s"},{"start_seconds":2541,"text":"start experimenting replacing the people serving at the store with humanoid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2541s"},{"start_seconds":2548,"text":"robots then humanoid robots will have artificial intelligence in their brain right um of course they will not be remotely controled they will have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2548s"},{"start_seconds":2556,"text":"artificial intelligence in the brain So eventually you might play you might need to play Magic gather Gathering against the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2556s"},{"start_seconds":2565,"text":"UN robot so and then might become better than you right So eventually the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2565s"},{"start_seconds":2572,"text":"replacement of humans will happen in almost any possible scenario a part one in my opinion so one of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2572s"},{"start_seconds":2580,"text":"best investments that in my opinion one of the best investments that we're doing is called black C narch you could say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2580s"},{"start_seconds":2588,"text":"that black her narch is a competitor to Nar link but actually Nar link is a competitor to Black narch doesn't have to do anything with black rock so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2588s"},{"start_seconds":2596,"text":"think the only way for humans to survive to the growth of AI and machines and the you know evil control of AI will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2596s"},{"start_seconds":2605,"text":"having a mathematical co-process in their brain our brain now is very is very is great but is very limited um any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2605s"},{"start_seconds":2613,"text":"thought any idea you have in your brain is so colorful so powerful so detailed and then you speak it or you traduce it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2613s"},{"start_seconds":2622,"text":"in a natural language or in a programming language that is a compression form from your of your origin original idea so when you do that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2622s"},{"start_seconds":2631,"text":"you will lose a lot of information and also the latency of communication is super high and by way the natural language so why is this is in this way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2631s"},{"start_seconds":2640,"text":"because it you know the way we express our thoughts historically has been through a mechanical system that is our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2640s"},{"start_seconds":2647,"text":"voice right so you cannot you cannot do anything else but compressing creating a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2647s"},{"start_seconds":2654,"text":"system that only can adapt to voice to compress the information you have in your brain so we what we need is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2654s"},{"start_seconds":2661,"text":"actually in order to remain to not be replaced we need to be able to continue our Evolution as Homo sapiens sapience","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2661s"},{"start_seconds":2669,"text":"sapience so sapience cube in order to to to remain unique and not become just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2669s"},{"start_seconds":2678,"text":"meat for for AI so the if you want really to bring the discussion further or on on human replacement then it's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2678s"},{"start_seconds":2685,"text":"just about jobs you're completely right but eventually if uh if AI will start assuming personas and these personas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2685s"},{"start_seconds":2694,"text":"will become more and more complex and will will go around the world that can become kind of Matrix like and uh maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2694s"},{"start_seconds":2704,"text":"I'm wrong but even if there is 1% chances that is that I'm right maybe it's we should do something about it right so I think about this problems all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2704s"},{"start_seconds":2713,"text":"day long basically yeah so another question I had was you mentioned you guys about to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2713s"},{"start_seconds":2720,"text":"start training large language models so I'm curious if this is something uh that will be like you know sponsored by I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2720s"},{"start_seconds":2728,"text":"don't know tether and created as a as a public good or if you have a like some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2728s"},{"start_seconds":2734,"text":"ideas of how those models will be sustainable like will they be hosted through the API will they be open source","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2734s"},{"start_seconds":2742,"text":"what is the plan there so we plan to we plan to create uh well have different uh different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2742s"},{"start_seconds":2749,"text":"strategies so first of all the especially for medical um a for medical research centers with plan to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2749s"},{"start_seconds":2757,"text":"provide some uh um some free allocation I think is very very important you know one of is much more important that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2757s"},{"start_seconds":2767,"text":"devote this uh this AI power to medical research rather than you know using it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2767s"},{"start_seconds":2774,"text":"to I don't know um solve some an integral or derivative uh faster right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2774s"},{"start_seconds":2781,"text":"so sure everything is is is helpful but I think that if um you know human health is is is very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2781s"},{"start_seconds":2790,"text":"important so also second the idea is to um so we see the importance of of being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2790s"},{"start_seconds":2799,"text":"able to create models that can run locally it can be um trained and fine-tuned locally so you have um I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2799s"},{"start_seconds":2807,"text":"would imagine right now if you run a three billion token on a $30 smartphone you get six tokens per second on an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2807s"},{"start_seconds":2815,"text":"iPhone you get around 200 tokens per second that is kind of our Benchmark um so but uh if you take an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2815s"},{"start_seconds":2823,"text":"iPhone of five years ago uh it was like uh 10 tokens per second um so the leap I think that there will be a huge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2823s"},{"start_seconds":2831,"text":"generational leap on the next uh few generations of of uh of um Edge uh gpus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2831s"},{"start_seconds":2839,"text":"um so that will lead also the ability of doing starting from an existing model doing any way local","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2839s"},{"start_seconds":2847,"text":"uh training and fine-tuning of course you lose some performance and precision uh compared to the large super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2847s"},{"start_seconds":2855,"text":"larg language models like one trillion tokens for example but um the on the other side the the way I see it is that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2855s"},{"start_seconds":2862,"text":"it's much you can compensate that having a very distributed peer-to-peer network of agents and models that for example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2862s"},{"start_seconds":2872,"text":"you have you can have the best chemistry model in the world that only knows about chemistry and then you have the best physics one the best you know Italian","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2872s"},{"start_seconds":2880,"text":"cooking pasta cooking model and so on so you go actually much more vertical and then you build orchestration tools and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2880s"},{"start_seconds":2887,"text":"you build like bigger models on top of them in order for for for getting access to this more vertical knowledge so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2887s"},{"start_seconds":2895,"text":"think we need to actually start fractalized um the way we see we see um the the concept of models so that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2895s"},{"start_seconds":2903,"text":"eventually you can train them with Comm common Hardware rather than having the need of of of creating these huge models","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2903s"},{"start_seconds":2910,"text":"also because I think eventually companies like openi and similar will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2910s"},{"start_seconds":2917,"text":"struggle to have um we will struggle a lot to keep accessing the amount of information that are accessing now so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2917s"},{"start_seconds":2926,"text":"think that people will become smarter and smarter uh in terms of not publishing everything public for the congest for for for for the consumption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2926s"},{"start_seconds":2935,"text":"of openi right so think about the think about how search will change as we said before you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2935s"},{"start_seconds":2943,"text":"the entire search business has been um kept together by advertisement but now you go on Google","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2943s"},{"start_seconds":2952,"text":"you search something and jini gets you a summary of that information and uh if sumbody gets a summary of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2952s"},{"start_seconds":2960,"text":"information you're searching for then you have less incentives to click on any link and if you don't have you don't click on any link you will not generate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2960s"},{"start_seconds":2969,"text":"other revenues for the people that created that content so the way information will be privatize is going to be mind-blowing in the next five five","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2969s"},{"start_seconds":2977,"text":"years mark my words so um how it so the only way to scale that is actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2977s"},{"start_seconds":2984,"text":"building a an super scalable super decentralized network of agents that will run their own data stores with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2984s"},{"start_seconds":2991,"text":"their own fine tune data and they can monetize that yeah I mean I think effectively","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2991s"},{"start_seconds":2998,"text":"copyright is going to die in next five years because yeah like copyright is the Gutenberg Press technology and it cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=2998s"},{"start_seconds":3006,"text":"apply to effect this recombination of data into like compressed data into models absolutely yeah so I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3006s"},{"start_seconds":3015,"text":"there's there's a lot of you know obviously discussions from here to take but we are actually out of time uh I really appreciate you coming I think we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3015s"},{"start_seconds":3023,"text":"need to continue this conversation there's a lot uh on both on both sides that I think we can work together yes we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3023s"},{"start_seconds":3031,"text":"could speak for days and days and days exactly yeah yeah I think I think we separately need to nerd out on like the networking St stuff because I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3031s"},{"start_seconds":3040,"text":"think both both you you and us uh find this fascinating um but yeah I think I wanted","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3040s"},{"start_seconds":3049,"text":"to thank you for coming uh hope this was informative for folks what tether's doing as well as how you see kind of the evolution here here uh there's a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3049s"},{"start_seconds":3058,"text":"philosophical questions to be discovered by all of us as we pushing this envelope uh but I think it's it's exciting time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3058s"},{"start_seconds":3066,"text":"to live for sure science fiction is yeah turning live so as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3066s"},{"start_seconds":3074,"text":"speak yes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3074s"},{"start_seconds":3081,"text":"sorry I was saying that un we are not going to have the positronic brain of of um of um azimov books right so the three","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3081s"},{"start_seconds":3089,"text":"laws of uh of Robotics I don't think there is an actual way to to enforce them so we we actually been speaking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3089s"},{"start_seconds":3097,"text":"about this so one one of the Frameworks we we look through is a formal verification and so we kind of see actually as the future of software uh as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3097s"},{"start_seconds":3106,"text":"well as like other places requires formal proofs because without form proofs like all software is going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3106s"},{"start_seconds":3114,"text":"broken by malicious AI effect so you need like actually completely correct software but so if you apply that same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3114s"},{"start_seconds":3121,"text":"principle you can actually require that whoever you call proves to you that they follow specific rules and so if we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3121s"},{"start_seconds":3129,"text":"formalize aimos you know Three Laws uh we can potentially you know have that as part of the interactions we we uh we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3129s"},{"start_seconds":3138,"text":"maintain very cool I like this additional nerd out it's worth mentioning the the was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3138s"},{"start_seconds":3146,"text":"was four laws before before his death this main protagonist came up with the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3146s"},{"start_seconds":3153,"text":"zero I will I will leave it to people to Google it to Google and to read the books all right well thank you very much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3153s"},{"start_seconds":3161,"text":"and uh hope everyone enjoy the conversation I did bye thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk&t=3161s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=p3T_WpbZ9Qk","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/p3T_WpbZ9Qk"}