{"id":"nNMeudZL2Pc","title":"Zero Knowledge Community Call #9 - near/dev/hub","description":"Thank you for joining us on the 9th Zero Knowledge Community Call! \nThese calls are scheduled every two months, so get ready for the next in April! If you would like to discuss anything in particular on the next call please make it known in our ZK Community Telegram https://t.me/NearZeroKnowledge \n\nFirst, we had a presentation from vSelf regarding ZKLogin an innovative approach to private onboarding to decentralized applications and on-chain communities.\n\nNext up was a demonstration from Reclaim Protocol which recently received a grant from DevHub. It was really interesting to see how one can use third party applications that a user has already been kyc'd on, such as Coinbase, to generate kyc for another application.\n\nWe then heard from RISC Zero regarding the NEAR Light Client they have produced that can generate proofs of a block in one minute.\n\nAfter that, we delved into a more informal discussion around the hot topic of ZKML and ZK private voting mechanics.\n\nWe look forward to seeing you on the next call!","channel_name":"NEAR DevHub","published_at":"2024-02-22T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/nNMeudZL2Pc/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"I'm recording now just to let you know so yeah welcome again uh this is the ninth zero knowledge Community call if you haven't met me before I'm in I'm a Dev hob developer relations contributor and I'm just moderating this call so if you haven't joined one of these calls before it's basically just a great way for the Community to meet up and discuss zero knowledge in the ecosystem give updates on projects and try to shape ideas into ideas and proposals are normally first discussed in the zero knowledge Community chat more informally and then they go on to be posted as a more formal proposal in the uh activity feed on near Dev hub.org and I'll I'll drop some links for them later so the format of these are they're mostly free format but we have some topics of discussion proposed and people giving presentations to keep it nice and interesting and if you want to um speak on a a certain topic or give a presentation next time just drop it in the community Channel or um reply to one of the Tweet announcements so we had uh Pedro suggested that we talk about MDC private voting which we will do later so participation we love participation uh make your ideas your thoughts your grievances known um and if if you want to participate just speak up but if you're not comfortable with that you can just uh write a message in the chat and the moderator role is of myself is just take notes encourage participation and I won't be making any decisions on proposals or or ideas here and if you want to be the moderator for the next call just just let me know and that can happen and yeah this this call is being recorded so we'll post it to YouTube afterwards so everyone can everyone could see right here are the proposed topics for this week uh we'll get started in a second but I just wanted to say if if you have a a near repository that's open source if you could do me a big favor and Ilia asked for this himself if you could um put this repo on the electric Capital report and it just just shows that n has a load of cool projects and try and highlight the the growth of the developer ecosystem and that helps to attract even more more depths into the ecosystem uh I'll drop the link for that later but yeah if you could do that that would be a great help so do we want to get started with uh velf with ZK login have you got any slides you want to share yeah I would like to kick it off start and then we continue with the cryptography part to dive a little bit deeper awesome let me see if you see that so just remind what we're doing in velf in general is we're working on the community service platform so identity management and the idea how we can provide uh customer data management and engagement dat for more general public than just dgen space is one of our key focuses and obviously ZK is one of the ways how we can try make this type of solution more accessible and more adopted outside of the kind of purely web3 native space so one of the things were recently proposed as a mean-based ground and is still under consideration is ZK login which was inspired by sui analogous tool for their ecosystem that was saying is very well connected with everything that we already have in the near space so one of the key issue that we're addressing here besides obvious that it's hard to make users uh sign in with wallets every time you want to provide any web three Focus dep for them it also very hard to justify a lot of even hybrid architectures about con customer data from the regulation standpoint when you go to web to clients and say let's use loyalty or social engagement tooling for your customers that's one of the main question that we are being asked for so the solution is to mix the web to authorization flow with ZK and generated ephemeral new accounts to kind of merge it together with simless flow without compromising user identity on chain so the key features is like chain is fullly abstracted from the user side it doesn't look different from what users normally using but we do have some web fre components without most importantly identifiable or later identifiable using data pattern extraction traces on chain about that web two account so our Rod map from there we plan to erase an open source mpm package um we do do some like tweaking compared to the existing ones and idia will tell more about why we're choosing bulletproof and what kind of O tooling we're going to choose for our flows and next stages is to create tegram bolt to create it sort of authorization service to generate the ZK passes and layer besides proof of account ownership some extra features based on so bound tokens and identity management so I pick it up yeah yeah hi everyone again thanks taana for the intro so I think the context it's kind of clear and here's the concept of how ZK login Works in principle we we were inspired by sui Asana mentioned and that's a a little bit simplified version of their flow but the main idea behind the ZK L is that gvt is still um widely used especially in flows and but it contains personal information so what we're going to achieve is to extract personal information from gbt turn it into ZK proof uh saled like for the security reasons uh to prevent replay Texs yes just on web token yeah and then um any the app that would like to authentification Fields like each year audience and also um authentification can provide public key like G GVK for the for the signning authority that that you that issued original token and combined with a FAL account that we create on user of demand and store on our servers for the moment uh verifier can actually know that this account is was used to sign the payload and payload is ZK proof that proves the token exists and it was like valid authentification credential uh and that's kind of of it U but um I want to mention that uh Su implementation uses uh grow 16 and it U it it's required uh to have trusted setup ceremony so we considered switching to using D bullet proofs U which we have a lot of familiarity with uh and it has like rusting mentation state of art uh so we thought this kind of adjustment to the original scheme will simplify things like raising security bar a little bit and yeah thanks Tatiana for the next slide uh so what we actually were looking to build is some kind of um uh telegram bot uh with a telegram Min within uh which will serve our customer base with this one time passwords for the DFS that is one of the flows we we imagined but I think it can be used like for different use cases as well uh but we we plan to focus on telegram b as initial implementation yeah uh future development um um on the technical side of things we research a lot the about and protocol so it it looks like it also is a kind of password this future that awaits us so we plan to uh Implement about them authentification as well but it's like it's not related to ZK at all and uh what is related to ZK is ability to authentification the part of anonymity set so you can actually disclose only your group uh and not your particular identity uh and this we can also we have U implementations uh for this case using bullet proofs it's like open source we will be happy to added to the public repository oh mentioned in the beginning uh that's uh I think that concludes my uh yeah technical ideas for the moment taana do you have something add yeah I think it's like the general use cases are often being discussed but there are not that many toll in in any of the ecosystem that I know about that fully cover it uh that will allow like interaction with a customer data of different kind in these scenarios that includes eventually participating in crowdsource SE different campaigns where we need to detou the input data with which people join communities from everything that is happening on chain and all the engagement activations that already exist can just integrate the anonymous signing from this web to uh private data perspective uh to continue using whatever they already design for discords and twitters to extrapolate it for a communities of we to companies or traditional Brands and obviously the next extension and maybe we need to talk more about the integration with verifiable credentials because it can be uh also kind of extended on The Wider profile not just proof of participation in something or proof of account ownership but also particular features of this identity that you're bringing on the table and that uh previous slide when we're talking about the future development eventually we see v as this identity manager of one of these kinds focused on loyalty and engagement but still where we can handle multiple sub identities because if you use uh ZK login then you're going to have different FML accounts for different dabs and it makes sense mostly for dabs that are not Define nature that are more engagement gamify kind of things and then if you want to rec construct their customer 360 out of that it's better to have some sort of identity provider who' be able to be trusted who doing so and that uh one of the directions we can collaborate in the ecosystem so that's more less yeah thank you uh yeah guys that's a long story short I think that's the main idea let me question nice hey how's it been to you uh how's been your experience with uh bullet proofs you mention so far pretty good so I mean I never compared them directly I never Benchmark them yet with grow 16 but it will happen soon sooner or later but uh yeah it's pretty compact for for our case and I can compile to wasm and probably at some point in time near runtime we'll also be able to run verification on Smart contract side U yeah I'm not super familiar with current State ofth art like growth implementations I I think I have to Benchmark but you we also experts yes no no we also had to run away from graph 16 when we implemented OPAC we we used Blanc due to the because isuse the ceron yeah but I've heard that the bulletproof is fairly good for like small proofs so totally that's my intuition but I I have to do benchmarking I'll share with Community for sure yeah and I think I point here to make is a lot of benchmarking and papers that refer to uh comparison of different methods are focused on the speed and computation when it comes to Big transaction load and when it comes to sign in it's not that dramatic compared to all the blockchain infrastructure things also Hal to looks super promising because it's um like direct successor of bullet proofs and with bullet proofs we have had great experience so far so let's our like next subject object would be Halo but I I don't know let's let's keep an eye on the industry yeah for now it's bullet proofs uh Hans did you have a a thought or a question do you want to go ahead yeah uh Hey everybody my name's Hans I'm from risk zero um I just was curious about proof generation time uh specifically for validating rs256 signatures uh how long does that generally take with bulletproofspeaking.com we do it I think all the examples run less than 10 seconds on the front end in the browser so it's it's good for user experience it's do I that's our Goa I would definitely encourage you to look at some of the repo examples in uh risk zero uh we actually do some validation though we do require trusted setup for our snark validation but that's like a second step pipeline um first we produce a stark and then we move it over to a snark um but we do have jot validation uh along with like oidc sort of validation and a couple of other hacks to enable this sort of ZK login uh to bridge you know web two and web three uh together cool I need to take I will take a look uh can you share the link maybe also I can look it up myself I've heard of risk zero and we had a we had a question in the chat as well uh from eore asking what implementation of uh of plunk you were using uh we haven't been using PL but probably it's the to ped I mean I have to redirect it oh aome any more questions no no let Pedro explain about plun no oh I've I've shared the the GitHub repo so you guys can check it out our BL implementation it's fully open source too and thanks H got you also thank you very much awesome should we move on then uh I I I will probably we can yes thank you thank you for that we've we've got a lot a lot of a lot of good things to cover uh so I might Butch of this name here but rushil rill rill I think that's it from reclaim uh talking about verifiable credentials along similar lines with uh with reclaim protocol uh they gave a a presentation last call but I I think we're having a bit more uh like handson and and and less abstract uh presentation here um do you want to go ahead and share your screen yes uh hello hello I'm audible yeah great yeah uh thank you so much uh for giving us the opportunity uh I'm roel and uh I take care of growth so I'm not be able to answer uh some technical questions because I think they were answered in the last call but yeah happy to work you through uh what reclaim is and considering we are live on uh production uh would love to work you through a demo is my screen visible yep can see it now awesome so uh so this is a demo of um a farcaster frame where uh we are trying to generate a proof of personhood by using Uber as a data provider so the user here is uh creating a proof that they have taken more than one more than one ride you can customize these requirements it could be 10 it could be 100 uh and let me just play this yeah so um we've worked a lot on the um user experience so as you can see there are no extensions the user basically needs to um um scan this QR code uh on their phone um what we are trying to um prove in the next few seconds is there's no pre-installed app called reclaim it doesn't exist uh we uh basically use Apple's U app clip um that um are sort of generated when a user scans this QR code as soon as this QR code is scanned we are taken to a reclaim mini app uh through the Apple app clip and then the user uh creates this proof so in this case there's a CTA which says create proof uh they are taken to the Uber's website through n htps proxy uh they log into Uber this yeah uh enter the OTP and then um the basically generating or a proove that they've taken 413 rights this specific number which is definitely greater than one um and then then yeah this takes about less than 10 seconds on a mobile device um the next part is where uh user submits this so until and un this proof is not submitted it throws up an error once you check the status um inside farcaster um yeah it shows up an error but once the proof is submitted uh from the uh mini app it should show that hey this person is actually a human so this is how in a nutshell how it works uh forward to show that yeah once it's submitted it has been verified and developers can check their verification uh status at the link um going forward uh uh in terms of data providers anyone can write their own provider so we have a developer developer portal where you can uh submit your requirements so we have ad which is the national ID of India Amazon order account um um coinbase email address so there are multiple things that you can use declaim uh for verification so you can add your own provider developers can come here and add their own providers themselves um some of the use cases where uh reclaim is working uh one is U completely decentralized P2P exchange this is uh built by an independent team who chose for two particular use cases one is for kyc so they're using Adar which is owned by Adar is a national ID of India owned by more than a billion Indians so they use it for King their users uh and then second is proof of f transfer so let's say I sent uh someone $10,000 from my bank account their bank account so to dis resolve any transactional disputes uh and to remove any like screenshotting of these uh FIA transfers uh they actually generate a proof of your transfer from bank as a provider they're going quite quite fast they've done around 250k worth of transaction volume since launch uh now this number is closer to 400k um some of the like other Integrations so we are U integrated with EAS uh polygon ID uh National like the IRS data for tax purposes uh then um Adar as I mentioned uh some of the daps want to use reclaim for utilizing steam data uh for gamers to reward them within their adaps uh and then yeah this is uh this is something the couple of things that are very interesting uh that we are getting like a lot of attention for one is uh indirect or uh delegated kyc so a lot of dab Builders do not want to kyc their users but unfortunately they are being uh pressured by the legal team so one workaround that they are uh using is is using coinbase or binance or any centralized service kyc and using storing that state so a user logs into coinbase or a user logs into binance and they create a proof that they're already kyc there so that uh the end user don't doesn't have to undergo the entire kyc process on a new appap so that's something interesting and Second Use case that we are getting a lot of sort of attention is for vampire attacking the web two companies so if I were to start let's say a new um LinkedIn or a new Instagram I can basically air drop uh users based on their uh activity in the web2 platform which is not possible before reclaim uh yeah I think that's pretty much it we recently uh wrote uh publish proof of person uh paper uh I'll share all the details here uh happy to take on any questions can you share that paper yeah sure let me sh the link here some awesome use cases there does anyone have any questions for rashelle super cool lots of applications big respect to you guys how what sort of um what are you proving exactly like across all of these different Services is it is it sort of a uniform proof generation say for example job validation or you doing some sort of TLS uh TLS TLS okay yes yes so we we're uh built on TLS 1.3 uh uh the TLs 1.3 has a unique uh property which allows for a key update function which is not there in TS 1.2 we do work on top of TRS 1.2 but the verification takes longer because the data blow is quite large uh in nature so yeah we leverage DS 1.2 and 1 1.3 and then 1.2 as well and respect that's nice thank you so much okie dokie uh so Hans do you do you want to talk about risk zero now sure yeah so uh I don't really have a slide I could share you guys some old slides but you know first you know are you guys is everybody somewhat familiar heard of risk zero or know what risk zero is uh well cool um for those that don't know um risk zero is zero knowledge virtual machine it's completely generalizable zero knowledge virtual machine um and basically allows you to write uh any code that can be compiled to the risk five architecture which is most compiled code uh and prove the execution of this code uh in the ZK VN uh so that allows you to do quite a bit uh right you can do drop validation you can do TLS validation you can even run Doom in the damn thing um but what I'm here to talk about today is a light client for near uh and disclaimer I didn't actually work on this uh but Austin did he's my colleague uh I'm just I work on some other stuff but you know we're both Engineers there but essentially you know if you don't know like clients allow you to sort of verify consensus of a network without necessarily executing the state machine transactions within that Network and we do this because full nodes require you know much more compute much more storage bandwidth and a lot of and it's just unnecessary in a lot of cases but like clients sort of form the basis of different sort of interoperability use cases as well as efficient State sync right um so what we did was design uh a light client for near uh Implement that in this dkbm and generate proofs for that so now with recursion and composition at risk zero we we can recursively prove these light client blocks and you can efficiently validate uh the the canonical head of you know a near blockchain with um ZK proofs uh so so it's a big step um honestly our first step into the like clients kind of space uh we're a pretty chain agnostic company we're based out of Seattle Washington in the United States uh and yeah we just we really hope to just bring generalizable verifiable Computing so if you're working on ZK proofs and you're running into hiccups with circuit design or complex sort of applications uh I would encourage you to look at sort of generalizable VMS um they're super versatile uh and we do have the hardware as well as a couple of apis for like enabling trustless compute in an efficient way so the ZK light client for every block I think the proof time is like maybe maybe a minute uh which isn't isn't too bad um uh yeah so that's kind of the the tldr uh but um excited to see what you guys are working on uh it's it's pretty neat that's all I have cool sounds great have you also like considered running not Doom but maybe large language model yeah large language models are tough uh mostly because uh so this VM is is slightly restricted in in terms of uh it's it's a it's a virtual machine so so you're restricted by one the host machine and two sort of uh the general um constraints of the actual VM itself right like because the the risk 5 instruction set is the constraints uh you're pretty Limited in terms of like you know storage access network access um so there are some limitations with with VM design right like uh you can't yeah at the moment right like we're working on these things and with uh sort of our pause resume uh kind of cycle that we've recently enabled with recursion like you can uh take really large computational steps and prove them recursively and roll them up into a single proof to validate on a chain um and the VM produces a stark which is you know it grows as with with the size of the execution Trace but we do have a path for going from Stark to snark uh snarks are an O are are constant time sort of validation right doesn't really matter how big the the snark is or or what you're proving the snark takes constant time to validate and we do have a pipeline enabled for that uh so you can verify things on chain this does require The Trusted setup from us we use potion from uh the psse Privacy scaling ethereum uh foundation and uh we generate you know these grth 16 uh contracts that can verify these snarks in you know 300K gas for ethereum um currently we only support ethereum for the deployments of this but we do intend to support you know many chains uh but yeah MH got you got you and so uh is why Starks in the first because like it's post Quantum after switching to snarks you're losing B Quantum resistanc yeah yeah so Starks were chosen because uh um some of the underlying principles of like the VM VM just sort of require uh this sort of scalable uh roof format right like um it yeah it's just it's it just works better with a VM uh the details of that you know I I can't really answer in a couple so it's not about postquantum just like engineering choices yeah I mean building this thing is is you know it's not a trivial task to build a general yeah yeah I've seen the project for cardan chain it's also yeah and it has a lot of applications right like like I mentioned like the JW validation or which which can be used for an a lot of things right you got you got identity you have login not only consensus can be yeah verified yeah lots of business logic as well exactly got you we'll take deeper dive into risk zero yeah yeah and if any of you guys have any questions uh hit us up on Discord um you can find the link on our website uh you can also just uh shoot me an email at hanss risk zero.com if you want to get in touch um Andre cashion I think you have your hand raised hey hey thanks thanks for the intro um I was wondering you mentioned proof time is one minute for a block on which Hardware is this this would be bunai and don't quote me on those times uh I need to check with Austin specifically um but so we have our own API of a bunch of clusters of gpus um and uh rvm is optimized for GPS uh so you can run uh you can upload this image this Elf image um a compiled program uh to our API and we'll prove it uh at request and spit out uh the proof as well as any of the write outs from from the actual program itself um but this is a cluster of gpus that that is much more efficient than running it on like you know just a normal laptop that being said you totally can but the the proof times for that it's not optimized for CPUs it's optimized for gpus um so if you need an API key um hit us up at Bonsai doxyz or risk zero.com or Discord and we can hook you up with an API key if you want to test out that Hardware it's trust list so um at least the computation side right the API does require a little bit of trust but uh we're working on sort of mitigating that and what's your pricing model gpus are quite expensive nowadays well we actually we actually uh do not focus on ML uh based gpus right like A1 100s or any of that we we use standard consumer Hardware uh gpus uh so we have a large clust of those uh reserved and um yeah thanks for posting that link but um yeah the pricing model it's a I can't really say I'm just an engineer there uh you'd have to speak with some of some of the the sort of product team for for pricing we're still in the works for that it's it's actually a really difficult thing to sort of determine pricing because of the way um some of the services that we use for gpus kind of host these gpus uh you know keeping them warm versus not how many scaling like it's it's actually a pretty complex thing gep so in the VM itself we we kind of measure things in Cycles right CPU Cycles uh but translating That Into You know a direct you know cost for enduser blockchains is is not not easy thing and we're actually still working that out but we do have some pricing models um sense I have more questions so if someone else have questions please go ahead first no no go ahead go ahead and okay um so you mentioned that uh you aim for generality like you have the circuit that is working with any r or any risk five Al binary what do you think is the cost of that generality as compared to building a dedicated circuit for near light client what's kind of speed UPS or or slowdowns would we expect uh right so so generality doesn't does involve some overhead right like you do have to consider the rest of the VM architecture uh when implementing you know some sort of program and there is overhead uh generally for the time being most things will incur some overhead uh say um but we do we do have a lot of acceleration that we're still working on right we accelerate like shot 256 uh or ecdsa signatures um these things have specialized accelerator sort of pre-compiled circuits that that uh basically are added at no cost but when you're performing steps like say you know parsing a Json file or something um that does incur you that does have some some extra cost to it uh in terms of computational cost uh so yeah there there is overhead and generally writing a dedicated circuit though timec consuming and difficult will probably be more efficient a lot of the time uh but we're not really aiming for you know Peak efficiency we're aiming for generality yeah understandable also I think garit had z l client implementation like more tailored for the near this system just to mention electr LS I mean neat uh yeah I'd like to take a look at that for sure um one of the things that we try to boast at risk zero is like just the speed at which you can sort of develop these things so the near light client that we kind of implemented was um developed in like maybe a week or two uh so not very long at all but I would love to take a look I think electron LS it was a year or so so some tradeoffs for sure have you tried profiling that thrust code sorry I have more questions have you tried profiling this code or like did you need to write this thrust code in some very specific way for it to be uh compatible with risk zero or did you just wrote well straight or copy r c from near uh near core for the life client so a lot of the implementations are actually written in go uh so you know we have to sort of copy that over and and and we currently you know rust is a first class citizen for our VM so so uh we had to Port that over to rust um there are some difficulties with VMS in general um for one like system clocks kind of hard you can't really do that in a trustless way and Randomness is also support but you know there's a limitation to the randomness and entropy of that Randomness um so uh there are a couple of difficulties but you know we we did get around that uh yeah you deal with the bloat in Rust code like rust statically compiles to four megabyte binaries which are quite I guess expensive to prove the content of for example what was the question then uh so do you need to specifically deal with the size of generated rust binaries rust is known for generating quite large binaries when compiled yeah because of statically linked nature and it's a generally standard Library does not really optimize for the code size as compared to maybe go or some other languages so we do support the standard Library though like by default our option is to disable the standard library but because that's required for like you know a lot of a lot of crates um we do we do offer that uh but it yeah it does increase the binary size um but yeah uh if you can try to write things in non in no standard Library um that being said you totally have that option uh but yeah it doesn't really matter for say Bonsai um there're still they're still overhead uh and can't get around that thanks a lot no problem great cool I'll let other people awesome awesome yeah I I think we we touched a little bit on uh like AI uh llm there so I I think this would be a good way to Segway into um Zer knowledge machine learning I I think it you wanted to speak on that a little bit and other people jump in um I I just wanted to share like my general idea and I was looking at the Zama AI uh project just recently uh and it's related to the fully homomorphic encryption Tech um I I don't know we haven't tried it yet but I was thinking if you have ideas about using like fly homomorphic encryption maybe you have used it in your projects guys and I can do a quick recap of the idea of technology so uh like with Theo knowledge proof we can do some magical things like extract personal data from credentials with u fully homomorphic encryption as I understand it's possible to run computation on the cipher text and um then produce the result as a cipher text as well um so it looks very very promising in terms of privacy like big brother looking into your data but now it can by you know by Design and and that's uh uh in my mind creates a big opportunities like in general but I'm not really familiar with the current state of the art also I think zi is a good example yes uh my take short take on the field yes who wants to share also so uh yeah we were actually looking at Zama uh here at hack chain uh but not specifically for AI but we've been bumping into a a problem called shared private stage or common private stage uh and it we we were looking into it to kind of try to fix that issue like how can we actually execute private reputation on a shared State and we we looked a bit into them R the dogs or Jaso from hack chain you guys my uh he looked a bit more so yeah if you want I can share his contact and you guys can chat but it was not looking into AI at all actually I'm also not looking into AI just the you know the biggest thing in the room yeah I was also looking for some use cases like in the past we wanted to do privacy preserving tracing like in Co times who at whom at which time this kind of like pandemic scoring systems uh that was my first encounter with the idea of homomorphic encryption U but now days I I mean I I I will reach out to to you guys yeah let's see yeah just Reach Out reach us out on Telegram and we can chat more but the thing we've seen with like uh F AJ is that like ZK is I I would please guys don't get mad at me it's fairly experimental or fairly new for a lot of applications is even more like how to build an application with that and that people actually trust it feels like it's a big part of the chall challeng so it's really look I think it's promising I don't know if people can trust the cas schemes any I'm waiting for n you know n standardization to to do some promises for our customers yes yeah oh that was my I think my Pinnacle of my yeah knowledge in the moment yeah it looks like um well there's there's a lot of hype around uh ckl at the moment I I I think it's only going to grow really in the next few months uh should we I I think we yes exactly I'm sorry answer in the chat yeah yeah thanks uh Pedro do you want to hop on to talk about uh NDC private voting um ZK yeah um sounds good so I also did not prepare any slides because it's more of like so this is the near ZK group so I kind of wanted to bring it to discussion even though we talk about ZK I would say like privacy as a whole it's something that we've been looking a lot here in Shaka chain and we've bumped into a couple of different people or organizations that are talking a lot about private voting and I wanted to bring it to discussion here so we've started to look into ways to kind of fix the problem as a whole like how to provide private voting within blockchain and we haven't gotten to like a full conclusion in a sense that like voting is separated into three steps so first is registration and we can do that with ZK and do private registration that's fine second one is actually uh the balloting process where you have to deposit that vote and we can do that too with ZK and then the third part is telling the votes and that is the actual problem that we've we cannot like find a decent answer yet but at the same time I'm not even that sure what is going on with NDC and ow and I don't know if uh you might want to jump in on that too like I'm fairly curious to know if there's anyone on near or anywhere else actually uh working with private voting and this three steps of the process like specifically the telling one to sum up or to add those votes it's funny but I have been thinking about it a lot like for a year for the last year since elections I think uh so yeah tailing part is the most difficult and I think some combination of homomorphic encryption and thres threshold cryptography will work eventually um yeah but yeah we have had some ideas how to do this and actually I think Blaze was very interested I don't know if you know the guy um no I from the conso uh we discussed with him a little bit um so we we should reach out once we have some proof of concept implementation maybe let's involve yeah Z AI for this we thought about oh there you go H uh we looked into a possible solution it like public good for the ecosystem like in my opinion because public voting was a mess you know lots of Scandal lots of H feelings and lots of violation of human rights in in the legal sense yeah exactly and yeah go ahead Owen sorry I I think uh to to add a little bit of context I think the best person to reach out to regarding this would be Alex I'm not sure of his last name uh but he's he's head of Ops of the NDC and it is within they do have some budget allocated to this uh in their priorities uh and and we have we have Chloe here who I believe is in House of Merit uh maybe you can add any more context if you do uh and I've just seen that they're actually looking for a for a Dev with knowledge uh what knowledge of zero knowledge so it might may be along those sort of lines I've just dropped the the link for the Java advertisement in there but yeah there's some there's some giga brains in this poll right now and in our zero knowledge community so we we definitely need you guys involved um with with the voting system for sure that's that's my that's my thoughts on it all go ahead thanks yeah like what what been I've been thinking a lot is like it's fairly hard to find a solution that works only using near or any other specific blockchain like the the best uh and please guys don't hate me but the best case that we found so so far is using te to actually add the votes so you kind of do like registration and buting with ZK and then you use te to add it and destroy the machines but then again it's te and I know that there's like a lot of hate with it and we can't like think of anything that would actually work solely with within a smart contract you know I I also can't imagine like it's not being a hybrid at least several steps seem uh and also let's consider using risk zero for some kind of tailing maybe I I did I did post a link to uh one of the examples that we have for a voting machine um we've tested this out with like Dow voting um before and uh yeah it's it's mostly for tallying um and this is actually quite reant relevant to my experience in the past I used to work in gitcoin uh which is fundamentally based on this like concept of kind of voting with tokens in a way uh to distribute pools of money um and there wasn't a good solution at the time but I think I think this voting example should should Point uh some groups in the right direction thanks H super cool yeah looking into it yeah appreciate it and I'm not with n this at all like not involved in year at all I was just interested in the private te part yes but also Owen that that was my take on it uh I don't have anything else to add yeah thanks P for the raising this thing no I only have a lot of Mir swag from last Mir con because it was last new went there and it was like the event was finishing and everyone had a lot of swag to distribute and there was no one here so I got a lot of t-shirts so if if anyone also wants a lot of near t-shirts I have like about a 100 at home I know what you're doing with interesting interesting we will consider I I think that's us all like uh going to e Denver I'm not going to pack any t-shirts no socks because I know I'll find them all the definitely and oh haa from hacker chain will be there I think you guys met on newon last year I don't know if you remember also has like long hair I'll I'll let him know that you be there oh awesome is blonde hair oh no that's wrong right yeah it's like for sure like really really dark cool cool uh yes and uh Seth to answer your message in the chat I think it it's like a priority too um but I the the the NDC seemed to want to fund an implementation right but I couldn't see any sort of like research be be funded really around this uh but yeah there's I believe there's some budget in there and I think if you want to do something I would reach out in the DMS first to the council and uh this Alex Alex guy I'm I'm happy to put you in contact Alex from aora you mean Alex no no not not Alex from Aurora Alex head of ops Oh go ahead chlo go ahead yeah sorry just to add a little bit more context so the head of it's called NDC Ops like NDC operations they work on the governance framework um and some of the other technical details for voting and elections it's Alex Bato so Alex B and he'd be the best person to reach out to uh they are looking to hire someone to help out with for example someone with a ZK background Russ specific to help out with like the Dow upgrades as well um as other eventual privacy like private voting implementations as well so I mean as a House of Merit member I am on the house of Merit uh personally I am also uh looking to try and get privacy added obviously it might be in stages um but still the I think from the many members of the House of Merit are looking to uh like how do we get to that point where near is the place where we can invest into and have a place where private voting is like the norm um so yeah just to add some more contact got you so Alex B yeah that's the right contact got you I think it might be good to spin up like a group chat with with um all the ones interested in uh participate in you could do this would be super nice yeah I I'll have a look about it um yeah I I see we we've gone past the hour here uh but does anyone have any more topics they want to discuss or should we wrap it up there okay I think I think that's it then okay uh yeah thanks everyone for joining in and I wish you all the best I'll uh I'll drop some more more links in the the Zer knowledge uh Channel regarding this and I I think um more people wanted to hear about risk zero so if you could drop some links as well hands that would be great are you in are you in the zero knowledge um near zero knowledge chat no but if you could drop a link to that I'll gladly join yeah sure well I I dropped some links earlier but I'll I'll drop them all again oh I see it sweet I'll drop it for the benefit of everyone yeah the the Community page and the the telegram is on there awesome all right thanks everyone great to see you all thanks everyone have a great day evening bye bye thanks everyone bye bye cheers","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T04:13:26.031Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":7,"text":"I'm recording now just to let you know so yeah welcome again uh this is the ninth zero knowledge Community call if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=7s"},{"start_seconds":14,"text":"you haven't met me before I'm in I'm a Dev hob developer relations contributor and I'm just moderating this call so if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=14s"},{"start_seconds":24,"text":"you haven't joined one of these calls before it's basically just a great way for the Community to meet up and discuss","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=24s"},{"start_seconds":33,"text":"zero knowledge in the ecosystem give updates on projects and try to shape ideas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=33s"},{"start_seconds":41,"text":"into ideas and proposals are normally first discussed in the zero knowledge Community chat more informally and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=41s"},{"start_seconds":51,"text":"they go on to be posted as a more formal proposal in the uh activity feed on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=51s"},{"start_seconds":60,"text":"near Dev hub.org and I'll I'll drop some links for them later so the format of these are they're mostly free","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=60s"},{"start_seconds":69,"text":"format but we have some topics of discussion proposed and people giving presentations to keep it nice and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=69s"},{"start_seconds":79,"text":"interesting and if you want to um speak on a a certain topic or give a presentation next time just drop it in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=79s"},{"start_seconds":88,"text":"the community Channel or um reply to one of the Tweet announcements so we had uh Pedro","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=88s"},{"start_seconds":97,"text":"suggested that we talk about MDC private voting which we will do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=97s"},{"start_seconds":103,"text":"later so participation we love participation uh make your ideas your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=103s"},{"start_seconds":111,"text":"thoughts your grievances known um and if if you want to participate just speak up but if you're not comfortable with that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=111s"},{"start_seconds":119,"text":"you can just uh write a message in the chat and the moderator role is of myself","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=119s"},{"start_seconds":127,"text":"is just take notes encourage participation and I won't be making any decisions on proposals or or ideas here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=127s"},{"start_seconds":136,"text":"and if you want to be the moderator for the next call just just let me know and that can happen and yeah this this call","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=136s"},{"start_seconds":144,"text":"is being recorded so we'll post it to YouTube afterwards so everyone can everyone could","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=144s"},{"start_seconds":152,"text":"see right here are the proposed topics for this week uh we'll get started in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=152s"},{"start_seconds":159,"text":"second but I just wanted to say if if you have a a near repository that's open","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=159s"},{"start_seconds":167,"text":"source if you could do me a big favor and Ilia asked for this himself if you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=167s"},{"start_seconds":173,"text":"could um put this repo on the electric Capital report and it just just shows","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=173s"},{"start_seconds":180,"text":"that n has a load of cool projects and try and highlight the the growth of the developer ecosystem and that helps to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=180s"},{"start_seconds":189,"text":"attract even more more depths into the ecosystem uh I'll drop the link for that later but yeah if you could do that that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=189s"},{"start_seconds":198,"text":"would be a great help so do we want to get started with uh velf with ZK login","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=198s"},{"start_seconds":206,"text":"have you got any slides you want to share yeah I would like to kick it off start and then we continue with the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=206s"},{"start_seconds":216,"text":"cryptography part to dive a little bit deeper awesome let me see if you see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=216s"},{"start_seconds":223,"text":"that so just remind what we're doing in velf in general is we're working on the community service platform so identity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=223s"},{"start_seconds":232,"text":"management and the idea how we can provide uh customer data management and engagement dat","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=232s"},{"start_seconds":240,"text":"for more general public than just dgen space is one of our key focuses and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=240s"},{"start_seconds":247,"text":"obviously ZK is one of the ways how we can try make this type of solution more accessible and more adopted outside of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=247s"},{"start_seconds":256,"text":"the kind of purely web3 native space so one of the things were recently proposed as a mean-based ground and is still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=256s"},{"start_seconds":263,"text":"under consideration is ZK login which was inspired by sui analogous tool for their ecosystem that was saying is very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=263s"},{"start_seconds":272,"text":"well connected with everything that we already have in the near space so one of the key issue that we're addressing here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=272s"},{"start_seconds":281,"text":"besides obvious that it's hard to make users uh sign in with wallets every time you want to provide any web three Focus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=281s"},{"start_seconds":290,"text":"dep for them it also very hard to justify a lot of even hybrid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=290s"},{"start_seconds":297,"text":"architectures about con customer data from the regulation standpoint when you go to web to clients and say let's use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=297s"},{"start_seconds":305,"text":"loyalty or social engagement tooling for your customers that's one of the main question that we are being asked for so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=305s"},{"start_seconds":313,"text":"the solution is to mix the web to authorization flow with ZK and generated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=313s"},{"start_seconds":320,"text":"ephemeral new accounts to kind of merge it together with simless flow without compromising user identity on chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=320s"},{"start_seconds":330,"text":"so the key features is like chain is fullly abstracted from the user side it doesn't look different from what users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=330s"},{"start_seconds":336,"text":"normally using but we do have some web fre components without most importantly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=336s"},{"start_seconds":343,"text":"identifiable or later identifiable using data pattern extraction traces on chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=343s"},{"start_seconds":349,"text":"about that web two account so our Rod map from there we plan to erase an open","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=349s"},{"start_seconds":356,"text":"source mpm package um we do do some like tweaking compared to the existing ones and idia will tell more about why we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=356s"},{"start_seconds":365,"text":"choosing bulletproof and what kind of O tooling we're going to choose for our flows and next stages is to create","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=365s"},{"start_seconds":373,"text":"tegram bolt to create it sort of authorization service to generate the ZK passes and layer besides proof of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=373s"},{"start_seconds":382,"text":"account ownership some extra features based on so bound tokens and identity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=382s"},{"start_seconds":388,"text":"management so I pick it up yeah yeah hi everyone again thanks taana for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=388s"},{"start_seconds":396,"text":"intro so I think the context it's kind of clear and here's the concept of how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=396s"},{"start_seconds":405,"text":"ZK login Works in principle we we were inspired by sui Asana mentioned and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=405s"},{"start_seconds":416,"text":"that's a a little bit simplified version of their flow but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=416s"},{"start_seconds":423,"text":"main idea behind the ZK L is that gvt is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=423s"},{"start_seconds":429,"text":"still um widely used especially in flows","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=429s"},{"start_seconds":436,"text":"and but it contains personal information so what we're going to achieve is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=436s"},{"start_seconds":443,"text":"to extract personal information from gbt turn it into ZK proof uh saled like for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=443s"},{"start_seconds":452,"text":"the security reasons uh to prevent replay Texs yes just on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=452s"},{"start_seconds":460,"text":"web token yeah and then um any the app","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=460s"},{"start_seconds":466,"text":"that would like to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=466s"},{"start_seconds":478,"text":"authentification Fields like each year audience and also um authentification","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=478s"},{"start_seconds":487,"text":"can provide public key like G GVK for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=487s"},{"start_seconds":494,"text":"the for the signning authority that that you that issued original token and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=494s"},{"start_seconds":502,"text":"combined with a FAL account that we create on user of demand and store on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=502s"},{"start_seconds":509,"text":"our servers for the moment uh verifier can actually know that this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=509s"},{"start_seconds":519,"text":"account is was used to sign the payload and payload is ZK proof that proves the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=519s"},{"start_seconds":527,"text":"token exists and it was like valid authentification","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=527s"},{"start_seconds":536,"text":"credential uh and that's kind of of it U but um I want to mention that uh Su","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=536s"},{"start_seconds":544,"text":"implementation uses uh grow 16 and it U it it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=544s"},{"start_seconds":551,"text":"required uh to have trusted setup ceremony so we considered switching to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=551s"},{"start_seconds":559,"text":"using D bullet proofs U which we have a lot of familiarity with uh and it has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=559s"},{"start_seconds":568,"text":"like rusting mentation state of art uh so we thought this kind of adjustment to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=568s"},{"start_seconds":577,"text":"original scheme will simplify things like raising security bar a little bit and yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=577s"},{"start_seconds":586,"text":"thanks Tatiana for the next slide uh so what we actually were looking to build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=586s"},{"start_seconds":593,"text":"is some kind of um uh telegram bot uh with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=593s"},{"start_seconds":600,"text":"a telegram Min within uh which will serve our customer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=600s"},{"start_seconds":608,"text":"base with this one time passwords for the DFS that is one of the flows","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=608s"},{"start_seconds":618,"text":"we we imagined but I think it can be used like for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=618s"},{"start_seconds":626,"text":"different use cases as well uh but we we plan to focus on telegram b","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=626s"},{"start_seconds":633,"text":"as initial implementation yeah uh future","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=633s"},{"start_seconds":642,"text":"development um um on the technical side of things we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=642s"},{"start_seconds":649,"text":"research a lot the about and protocol so it it looks like it also is a kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=649s"},{"start_seconds":658,"text":"password this future that awaits us so we plan to uh Implement about them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=658s"},{"start_seconds":666,"text":"authentification as well but it's like it's not related to ZK at all and uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=666s"},{"start_seconds":673,"text":"what is related to ZK is ability to authentification the part of anonymity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=673s"},{"start_seconds":680,"text":"set so you can actually disclose only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=680s"},{"start_seconds":686,"text":"your group uh and not your particular identity uh and this we can also we have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=686s"},{"start_seconds":696,"text":"U implementations uh for this case using bullet proofs it's like open source we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=696s"},{"start_seconds":703,"text":"will be happy to added to the public repository oh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=703s"},{"start_seconds":710,"text":"mentioned in the beginning uh that's uh I think that concludes my uh yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=710s"},{"start_seconds":718,"text":"technical ideas for the moment taana do you have something add","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=718s"},{"start_seconds":726,"text":"yeah I think it's like the general use cases are often being discussed but there are not that many toll in in any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=726s"},{"start_seconds":733,"text":"of the ecosystem that I know about that fully cover it uh that will allow like interaction with a customer data of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=733s"},{"start_seconds":742,"text":"different kind in these scenarios that includes eventually participating in crowdsource SE different campaigns where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=742s"},{"start_seconds":750,"text":"we need to detou the input data with which people join communities from everything that is happening on chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=750s"},{"start_seconds":758,"text":"and all the engagement activations that already exist can just integrate the anonymous signing from this web to uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=758s"},{"start_seconds":768,"text":"private data perspective uh to continue using whatever they already design for discords and twitters to extrapolate it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=768s"},{"start_seconds":776,"text":"for a communities of we to companies or traditional Brands and obviously the next extension and maybe we need to talk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=776s"},{"start_seconds":785,"text":"more about the integration with verifiable credentials because it can be uh also kind of extended on The Wider","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=785s"},{"start_seconds":795,"text":"profile not just proof of participation in something or proof of account ownership but also particular features","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=795s"},{"start_seconds":802,"text":"of this identity that you're bringing on the table and that uh previous slide when we're talking about the future","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=802s"},{"start_seconds":809,"text":"development eventually we see v as this identity manager of one of these kinds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=809s"},{"start_seconds":817,"text":"focused on loyalty and engagement but still where we can handle multiple sub identities because if you use uh ZK","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=817s"},{"start_seconds":826,"text":"login then you're going to have different FML accounts for different dabs and it makes sense mostly for dabs that are not Define nature that are more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=826s"},{"start_seconds":834,"text":"engagement gamify kind of things and then if you want to rec construct their customer 360 out of that it's better to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=834s"},{"start_seconds":842,"text":"have some sort of identity provider who' be able to be trusted who doing so and that uh one of the directions we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=842s"},{"start_seconds":850,"text":"collaborate in the ecosystem so that's more less yeah thank","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=850s"},{"start_seconds":857,"text":"you uh yeah guys that's a long story short I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=857s"},{"start_seconds":864,"text":"think that's the main idea let me question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=864s"},{"start_seconds":873,"text":"nice hey how's it been to you uh how's been your experience with uh bullet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=873s"},{"start_seconds":880,"text":"proofs you mention so far pretty good so I mean I never","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=880s"},{"start_seconds":889,"text":"compared them directly I never Benchmark them yet with grow 16 but it will happen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=889s"},{"start_seconds":897,"text":"soon sooner or later but uh yeah it's pretty compact for for our case and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=897s"},{"start_seconds":906,"text":"can compile to wasm and probably at some point in time near runtime we'll also be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=906s"},{"start_seconds":914,"text":"able to run verification on Smart contract side U yeah I'm not super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=914s"},{"start_seconds":921,"text":"familiar with current State ofth art like growth implementations I I think I have to Benchmark","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=921s"},{"start_seconds":931,"text":"but you we also experts yes no no we also had to run away from graph 16 when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=931s"},{"start_seconds":938,"text":"we implemented OPAC we we used Blanc due to the because isuse the ceron yeah but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=938s"},{"start_seconds":947,"text":"I've heard that the bulletproof is fairly good for like small proofs so totally that's my intuition but I I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=947s"},{"start_seconds":957,"text":"have to do benchmarking I'll share with Community for sure yeah and I think I point here to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=957s"},{"start_seconds":966,"text":"make is a lot of benchmarking and papers that refer to uh comparison of different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=966s"},{"start_seconds":973,"text":"methods are focused on the speed and computation when it comes to Big transaction load and when it comes to sign in it's not that dramatic compared","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=973s"},{"start_seconds":983,"text":"to all the blockchain infrastructure things also Hal to looks super promising","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=983s"},{"start_seconds":990,"text":"because it's um like direct successor of bullet proofs and with bullet proofs we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=990s"},{"start_seconds":996,"text":"have had great experience so far so let's our like next subject","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=996s"},{"start_seconds":1004,"text":"object would be Halo but I I don't know let's let's keep an eye on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1004s"},{"start_seconds":1013,"text":"industry yeah for now it's bullet proofs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1013s"},{"start_seconds":1022,"text":"uh Hans did you have a a thought or a question do you want to go ahead yeah uh Hey everybody my name's Hans I'm from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1022s"},{"start_seconds":1029,"text":"risk zero um I just was curious about proof generation time uh specifically for validating rs256","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1029s"},{"start_seconds":1037,"text":"signatures uh how long does that generally take with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1037s"},{"start_seconds":1047,"text":"bulletproofspeaking.com we do it I think all the examples run less than 10","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1047s"},{"start_seconds":1054,"text":"seconds on the front end in the browser so it's it's good for user experience it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1054s"},{"start_seconds":1063,"text":"do I that's our Goa I would definitely encourage you to look at some of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1063s"},{"start_seconds":1070,"text":"repo examples in uh risk zero uh we actually do some validation though we do require trusted setup for our snark","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1070s"},{"start_seconds":1077,"text":"validation but that's like a second step pipeline um first we produce a stark and then we move it over to a snark um but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1077s"},{"start_seconds":1085,"text":"we do have jot validation uh along with like oidc sort of validation and a couple of other hacks to enable this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1085s"},{"start_seconds":1093,"text":"sort of ZK login uh to bridge you know web two and web three uh together cool I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1093s"},{"start_seconds":1100,"text":"need to take I will take a look uh can you share the link","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1100s"},{"start_seconds":1106,"text":"maybe also I can look it up myself I've heard of risk zero and we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1106s"},{"start_seconds":1115,"text":"had a we had a question in the chat as well uh from eore asking what implementation of uh of plunk you were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1115s"},{"start_seconds":1122,"text":"using uh we haven't been using PL but probably it's the to ped I mean I have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1122s"},{"start_seconds":1132,"text":"to redirect it oh aome any more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1132s"},{"start_seconds":1139,"text":"questions no no let Pedro explain about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1139s"},{"start_seconds":1147,"text":"plun no oh I've I've shared the the GitHub repo so you guys can check it out our BL","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1147s"},{"start_seconds":1155,"text":"implementation it's fully open source too and thanks H got you also thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1155s"},{"start_seconds":1162,"text":"very much awesome should we move on then uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1162s"},{"start_seconds":1171,"text":"I I will probably we can yes thank you thank you for that we've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1171s"},{"start_seconds":1179,"text":"we've got a lot a lot of a lot of good things to cover uh so I might Butch of this name here but rushil rill rill I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1179s"},{"start_seconds":1188,"text":"think that's it from reclaim uh talking about verifiable credentials along similar lines with uh with reclaim","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1188s"},{"start_seconds":1197,"text":"protocol uh they gave a a presentation last call but I I think we're having a bit more uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1197s"},{"start_seconds":1205,"text":"like handson and and and less abstract uh presentation here um do you want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1205s"},{"start_seconds":1212,"text":"go ahead and share your screen yes uh hello hello I'm audible yeah great yeah uh thank you so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1212s"},{"start_seconds":1221,"text":"much uh for giving us the opportunity uh I'm roel and uh I take care of growth so I'm not be able to answer uh some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1221s"},{"start_seconds":1230,"text":"technical questions because I think they were answered in the last call but yeah happy to work you through uh what reclaim is and considering we are live","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1230s"},{"start_seconds":1238,"text":"on uh production uh would love to work you through a demo is my screen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1238s"},{"start_seconds":1248,"text":"visible yep can see it now awesome so uh so this is a demo of um a farcaster","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1248s"},{"start_seconds":1256,"text":"frame where uh we are trying to generate a proof of personhood by using Uber as a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1256s"},{"start_seconds":1264,"text":"data provider so the user here is uh creating a proof that they have taken more than one more than one ride you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1264s"},{"start_seconds":1272,"text":"customize these requirements it could be 10 it could be 100 uh and let me just play this yeah so um we've worked a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1272s"},{"start_seconds":1282,"text":"on the um user experience so as you can see there are no extensions the user basically needs to um um scan this QR","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1282s"},{"start_seconds":1291,"text":"code uh on their phone um what we are trying to um prove in the next few seconds is there's no pre-installed app","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1291s"},{"start_seconds":1301,"text":"called reclaim it doesn't exist uh we uh basically use Apple's U app clip um that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1301s"},{"start_seconds":1309,"text":"um are sort of generated when a user scans this QR code as soon as this QR code is scanned we are taken to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1309s"},{"start_seconds":1317,"text":"reclaim mini app uh through the Apple app clip and then the user uh creates this proof so in this case there's a CTA","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1317s"},{"start_seconds":1325,"text":"which says create proof uh they are taken to the Uber's website through n htps proxy uh they log into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1325s"},{"start_seconds":1333,"text":"Uber this yeah uh enter the OTP and then um the basically generating or a proove","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1333s"},{"start_seconds":1342,"text":"that they've taken 413 rights this specific number which is definitely greater than one um and then then yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1342s"},{"start_seconds":1349,"text":"this takes about less than 10 seconds on a mobile device um the next part is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1349s"},{"start_seconds":1357,"text":"where uh user submits this so until and un this proof is not submitted it throws up an error once you check the status um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1357s"},{"start_seconds":1365,"text":"inside farcaster um yeah it shows up an error but once the proof is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1365s"},{"start_seconds":1372,"text":"submitted uh from the uh mini app it should show that hey this person is actually a human so this is how in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1372s"},{"start_seconds":1381,"text":"nutshell how it works uh forward to show that yeah once it's submitted it has been verified and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1381s"},{"start_seconds":1389,"text":"developers can check their verification uh status at the link um going forward uh uh in terms of data","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1389s"},{"start_seconds":1398,"text":"providers anyone can write their own provider so we have a developer developer portal where you can uh submit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1398s"},{"start_seconds":1406,"text":"your requirements so we have ad which is the national ID of India Amazon order account um um coinbase email address so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1406s"},{"start_seconds":1414,"text":"there are multiple things that you can use declaim uh for verification so you can add your own provider developers can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1414s"},{"start_seconds":1421,"text":"come here and add their own providers themselves um some of the use cases where uh reclaim is working uh one is U","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1421s"},{"start_seconds":1431,"text":"completely decentralized P2P exchange this is uh built by an independent team who chose for two particular use cases","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1431s"},{"start_seconds":1439,"text":"one is for kyc so they're using Adar which is owned by Adar is a national ID of India owned by more than a billion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1439s"},{"start_seconds":1447,"text":"Indians so they use it for King their users uh and then second is proof of f transfer so let's say I sent uh someone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1447s"},{"start_seconds":1455,"text":"$10,000 from my bank account their bank account so to dis resolve any transactional disputes uh and to remove","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1455s"},{"start_seconds":1463,"text":"any like screenshotting of these uh FIA transfers uh they actually generate a proof of your transfer from bank as a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1463s"},{"start_seconds":1471,"text":"provider they're going quite quite fast they've done around 250k worth of transaction volume since launch uh now this number is closer to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1471s"},{"start_seconds":1479,"text":"400k um some of the like other Integrations so we are U integrated with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1479s"},{"start_seconds":1486,"text":"EAS uh polygon ID uh National like the IRS data for tax purposes uh then um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1486s"},{"start_seconds":1494,"text":"Adar as I mentioned uh some of the daps want to use reclaim for utilizing steam data uh for gamers to reward them within","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1494s"},{"start_seconds":1503,"text":"their adaps uh and then yeah this is uh this is something the couple of things that are very interesting uh that we are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1503s"},{"start_seconds":1511,"text":"getting like a lot of attention for one is uh indirect or uh delegated kyc so a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1511s"},{"start_seconds":1517,"text":"lot of dab Builders do not want to kyc their users but unfortunately they are being uh pressured by the legal team so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1517s"},{"start_seconds":1525,"text":"one workaround that they are uh using is is using coinbase or binance or any centralized service kyc and using","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1525s"},{"start_seconds":1533,"text":"storing that state so a user logs into coinbase or a user logs into binance and they create a proof that they're already kyc there so that uh the end user don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1533s"},{"start_seconds":1543,"text":"doesn't have to undergo the entire kyc process on a new appap so that's something interesting and Second Use case that we are getting a lot of sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1543s"},{"start_seconds":1551,"text":"of attention is for vampire attacking the web two companies so if I were to start let's say a new um LinkedIn or a new Instagram","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1551s"},{"start_seconds":1558,"text":"I can basically air drop uh users based on their uh activity in the web2 platform which is not possible before","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1558s"},{"start_seconds":1566,"text":"reclaim uh yeah I think that's pretty much it we recently uh wrote uh publish proof of person uh paper uh I'll share","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1566s"},{"start_seconds":1574,"text":"all the details here uh happy to take on any questions can you share that paper yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1574s"},{"start_seconds":1585,"text":"sure let me sh the link here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1585s"},{"start_seconds":1596,"text":"some awesome use cases there does anyone have any questions for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1596s"},{"start_seconds":1605,"text":"rashelle super cool lots of applications big respect to you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1605s"},{"start_seconds":1615,"text":"guys how what sort of um what are you proving exactly like across all of these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1615s"},{"start_seconds":1623,"text":"different Services is it is it sort of a uniform proof generation say for example job validation or you doing some sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1623s"},{"start_seconds":1630,"text":"TLS uh TLS TLS okay yes yes so we we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1630s"},{"start_seconds":1636,"text":"uh built on TLS 1.3 uh uh the TLs 1.3 has a unique uh property which allows","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1636s"},{"start_seconds":1643,"text":"for a key update function which is not there in TS 1.2 we do work on top of TRS 1.2 but the verification","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1643s"},{"start_seconds":1650,"text":"takes longer because the data blow is quite large uh in nature so yeah we leverage DS 1.2 and 1 1.3 and then 1.2","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1650s"},{"start_seconds":1659,"text":"as well and respect that's nice thank you so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1659s"},{"start_seconds":1668,"text":"much okie dokie uh so Hans do you do you want to talk about risk zero","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1668s"},{"start_seconds":1676,"text":"now sure yeah so uh I don't really have a slide I could","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1676s"},{"start_seconds":1684,"text":"share you guys some old slides but you know first you know are you guys is everybody somewhat familiar heard of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1684s"},{"start_seconds":1690,"text":"risk zero or know what risk zero is uh well cool um for those that don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1690s"},{"start_seconds":1699,"text":"know um risk zero is zero knowledge virtual machine it's completely generalizable zero knowledge virtual machine um and basically allows you to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1699s"},{"start_seconds":1708,"text":"write uh any code that can be compiled to the risk five architecture which is most compiled code uh and prove the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1708s"},{"start_seconds":1716,"text":"execution of this code uh in the ZK VN uh so that allows you to do quite a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1716s"},{"start_seconds":1723,"text":"bit uh right you can do drop validation you can do TLS validation you can even run Doom in the damn thing um but what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1723s"},{"start_seconds":1730,"text":"I'm here to talk about today is a light client for near uh and disclaimer I didn't actually work on this uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1730s"},{"start_seconds":1738,"text":"Austin did he's my colleague uh I'm just I work on some other stuff but you know we're both Engineers there but essentially you know if you don't know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1738s"},{"start_seconds":1746,"text":"like clients allow you to sort of verify consensus of a network without necessarily executing the state machine transactions within that Network and we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1746s"},{"start_seconds":1755,"text":"do this because full nodes require you know much more compute much more storage bandwidth and a lot of and it's just unnecessary in a lot of cases but like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1755s"},{"start_seconds":1763,"text":"clients sort of form the basis of different sort of interoperability use cases as well as efficient State sync","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1763s"},{"start_seconds":1769,"text":"right um so what we did was design uh a light client for near uh Implement that in this dkbm and generate proofs for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1769s"},{"start_seconds":1777,"text":"that so now with recursion and composition at risk zero we we can recursively prove these light client","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1777s"},{"start_seconds":1784,"text":"blocks and you can efficiently validate uh the the canonical head of you know a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1784s"},{"start_seconds":1791,"text":"near blockchain with um ZK proofs uh so so it's a big step um honestly our first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1791s"},{"start_seconds":1800,"text":"step into the like clients kind of space uh we're a pretty chain agnostic company we're based out of Seattle Washington in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1800s"},{"start_seconds":1807,"text":"the United States uh and yeah we just we really hope to just bring generalizable verifiable Computing so if you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1807s"},{"start_seconds":1814,"text":"working on ZK proofs and you're running into hiccups with circuit design or complex sort of applications uh I would encourage you to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1814s"},{"start_seconds":1823,"text":"look at sort of generalizable VMS um they're super versatile uh and we do have the hardware as well as a couple of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1823s"},{"start_seconds":1832,"text":"apis for like enabling trustless compute in an efficient way so the ZK light client for every block I think the proof","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1832s"},{"start_seconds":1841,"text":"time is like maybe maybe a minute uh which isn't isn't too bad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1841s"},{"start_seconds":1847,"text":"um uh yeah so that's kind of the the tldr uh but um excited to see what you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1847s"},{"start_seconds":1856,"text":"guys are working on uh it's it's pretty neat that's all I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1856s"},{"start_seconds":1863,"text":"have cool sounds great have you also like considered running not Doom but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1863s"},{"start_seconds":1871,"text":"maybe large language model yeah large language models are tough uh mostly because uh so this VM is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1871s"},{"start_seconds":1879,"text":"is slightly restricted in in terms of uh it's it's a it's a virtual machine so so you're restricted by one the host","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1879s"},{"start_seconds":1886,"text":"machine and two sort of uh the general um constraints of the actual VM itself right like because the the risk 5","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1886s"},{"start_seconds":1894,"text":"instruction set is the constraints uh you're pretty Limited in terms of like you know storage access","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1894s"},{"start_seconds":1902,"text":"network access um so there are some limitations with with VM design right like uh you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1902s"},{"start_seconds":1911,"text":"can't yeah at the moment right like we're working on these things and with uh sort of our pause resume uh kind of cycle that we've recently enabled with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1911s"},{"start_seconds":1919,"text":"recursion like you can uh take really large computational steps and prove them recursively and roll them up into a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1919s"},{"start_seconds":1928,"text":"single proof to validate on a chain um and the VM produces a stark which is you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1928s"},{"start_seconds":1934,"text":"know it grows as with with the size of the execution Trace but we do have a path for going from Stark to snark uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1934s"},{"start_seconds":1943,"text":"snarks are an O are are constant time sort of validation right doesn't really matter how big the the snark is or or what you're proving the snark takes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1943s"},{"start_seconds":1950,"text":"constant time to validate and we do have a pipeline enabled for that uh so you can verify things on chain this does require The Trusted setup from us we use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1950s"},{"start_seconds":1959,"text":"potion from uh the psse Privacy scaling ethereum uh foundation and uh we generate you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1959s"},{"start_seconds":1967,"text":"these grth 16 uh contracts that can verify these snarks in you know 300K gas for ethereum um currently we only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1967s"},{"start_seconds":1975,"text":"support ethereum for the deployments of this but we do intend to support you know many chains uh but yeah MH got you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1975s"},{"start_seconds":1985,"text":"got you and so uh is why Starks in the first because like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1985s"},{"start_seconds":1994,"text":"it's post Quantum after switching to snarks you're losing B Quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=1994s"},{"start_seconds":2002,"text":"resistanc yeah yeah so Starks were chosen because uh um some of the underlying principles of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2002s"},{"start_seconds":2010,"text":"like the VM VM just sort of require uh this sort of scalable uh roof format","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2010s"},{"start_seconds":2017,"text":"right like um it yeah it's just it's it just works better with a VM uh the details of that you know I I can't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2017s"},{"start_seconds":2026,"text":"really answer in a couple so it's not about postquantum just like engineering choices yeah I mean building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2026s"},{"start_seconds":2034,"text":"this thing is is you know it's not a trivial task to build a general yeah yeah I've seen the project for cardan","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2034s"},{"start_seconds":2043,"text":"chain it's also yeah and it has a lot of applications right like like I mentioned like the JW validation or which which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2043s"},{"start_seconds":2052,"text":"can be used for an a lot of things right you got you got identity you have login not only consensus can be yeah verified","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2052s"},{"start_seconds":2060,"text":"yeah lots of business logic as well exactly got you we'll take deeper dive","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2060s"},{"start_seconds":2068,"text":"into risk zero yeah yeah and if any of you guys have any questions uh hit us up on Discord um you can find the link on our website uh you can also just uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2068s"},{"start_seconds":2076,"text":"shoot me an email at hanss risk zero.com if you want to get in touch um Andre","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2076s"},{"start_seconds":2084,"text":"cashion I think you have your hand raised hey hey thanks thanks for the intro um I was wondering you mentioned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2084s"},{"start_seconds":2090,"text":"proof time is one minute for a block on which Hardware is this this would be bunai and don't quote","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2090s"},{"start_seconds":2098,"text":"me on those times uh I need to check with Austin specifically um but so we have our own API of a bunch of clusters","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2098s"},{"start_seconds":2107,"text":"of gpus um and uh rvm is optimized for GPS uh so you can run uh you can upload","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2107s"},{"start_seconds":2117,"text":"this image this Elf image um a compiled program uh to our API and we'll prove it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2117s"},{"start_seconds":2123,"text":"uh at request and spit out uh the proof as well as any of the write outs from from the actual program itself um but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2123s"},{"start_seconds":2132,"text":"this is a cluster of gpus that that is much more efficient than running it on like you know just a normal laptop that being said you totally can but the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2132s"},{"start_seconds":2140,"text":"proof times for that it's not optimized for CPUs it's optimized for gpus um so if you need an API key um hit us up at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2140s"},{"start_seconds":2148,"text":"Bonsai doxyz or risk zero.com or Discord and we can hook you up with an API key if you want to test out that Hardware","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2148s"},{"start_seconds":2156,"text":"it's trust list so um at least the computation side right the API does require a little bit of trust but uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2156s"},{"start_seconds":2163,"text":"we're working on sort of mitigating that and what's your pricing model gpus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2163s"},{"start_seconds":2170,"text":"are quite expensive nowadays well we actually we actually uh do not focus on ML uh based gpus right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2170s"},{"start_seconds":2179,"text":"like A1 100s or any of that we we use standard consumer Hardware uh gpus uh so we have a large clust of those uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2179s"},{"start_seconds":2188,"text":"reserved and um yeah thanks for posting that link but um yeah the pricing model it's a I can't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2188s"},{"start_seconds":2197,"text":"really say I'm just an engineer there uh you'd have to speak with some of some of the the sort of product team for for pricing we're still in the works for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2197s"},{"start_seconds":2205,"text":"that it's it's actually a really difficult thing to sort of determine pricing because of the way um some of the services that we use for gpus kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2205s"},{"start_seconds":2212,"text":"of host these gpus uh you know keeping them warm versus not how many scaling like it's it's actually a pretty complex","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2212s"},{"start_seconds":2221,"text":"thing gep so in the VM itself we we kind of measure things in Cycles right CPU Cycles uh but translating That Into You","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2221s"},{"start_seconds":2230,"text":"know a direct you know cost for enduser blockchains is is not not easy thing and we're actually still working that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2230s"},{"start_seconds":2239,"text":"out but we do have some pricing models um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2239s"},{"start_seconds":2248,"text":"sense I have more questions so if someone else have questions please go ahead first no no go ahead go ahead","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2248s"},{"start_seconds":2256,"text":"and okay um so you mentioned that uh you aim for generality like you have the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2256s"},{"start_seconds":2263,"text":"circuit that is working with any r or any risk five Al binary what do you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2263s"},{"start_seconds":2271,"text":"think is the cost of that generality as compared to building a dedicated circuit for near light client what's kind of speed UPS or or slowdowns would we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2271s"},{"start_seconds":2280,"text":"expect uh right so so generality doesn't does involve some overhead right like you do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2280s"},{"start_seconds":2288,"text":"have to consider the rest of the VM architecture uh when implementing you know some sort of program and there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2288s"},{"start_seconds":2295,"text":"overhead uh generally for the time being most things will incur some overhead uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2295s"},{"start_seconds":2304,"text":"say um but we do we do have a lot of acceleration that we're still working on right we accelerate like shot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2304s"},{"start_seconds":2311,"text":"256 uh or ecdsa signatures um these things have specialized accelerator sort of pre-compiled circuits that that uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2311s"},{"start_seconds":2320,"text":"basically are added at no cost but when you're performing steps like say you know parsing a Json file or something um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2320s"},{"start_seconds":2328,"text":"that does incur you that does have some some extra cost to it uh in terms of computational cost uh so yeah there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2328s"},{"start_seconds":2337,"text":"there is overhead and generally writing a dedicated circuit though timec consuming and difficult will probably be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2337s"},{"start_seconds":2343,"text":"more efficient a lot of the time uh but we're not really aiming for you know Peak efficiency we're aiming for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2343s"},{"start_seconds":2353,"text":"generality yeah understandable also I think garit had z","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2353s"},{"start_seconds":2362,"text":"l client implementation like more tailored for the near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2362s"},{"start_seconds":2367,"text":"this system just to mention electr LS I mean neat uh yeah I'd like to take a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2367s"},{"start_seconds":2376,"text":"look at that for sure um one of the things that we try to boast at risk zero is like just the speed at which you can sort of develop these things so the near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2376s"},{"start_seconds":2383,"text":"light client that we kind of implemented was um developed in like maybe a week or two uh so not very long at all but I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2383s"},{"start_seconds":2391,"text":"would love to take a look I think electron LS it was a year or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2391s"},{"start_seconds":2399,"text":"so so some tradeoffs for sure have you tried profiling that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2399s"},{"start_seconds":2409,"text":"thrust code sorry I have more questions have you tried profiling this code or like did you need to write this thrust code in some very specific way for it to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2409s"},{"start_seconds":2418,"text":"be uh compatible with risk zero or did you just wrote well straight or copy r c","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2418s"},{"start_seconds":2426,"text":"from near uh near core for the life client so a lot of the implementations are actually written in go uh so you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2426s"},{"start_seconds":2435,"text":"know we have to sort of copy that over and and and we currently you know rust is a first class citizen for our VM so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2435s"},{"start_seconds":2442,"text":"so uh we had to Port that over to rust um there are some difficulties with VMS in general um for one like system clocks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2442s"},{"start_seconds":2450,"text":"kind of hard you can't really do that in a trustless way and Randomness is also support but you know there's a limitation to the randomness and entropy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2450s"},{"start_seconds":2459,"text":"of that Randomness um so uh there are a couple of difficulties but you know we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2459s"},{"start_seconds":2466,"text":"we did get around that uh yeah you deal with the bloat in Rust","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2466s"},{"start_seconds":2472,"text":"code like rust statically compiles to four megabyte binaries which are quite I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2472s"},{"start_seconds":2480,"text":"guess expensive to prove the content of for example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2480s"},{"start_seconds":2486,"text":"what was the question then uh so do you need to specifically deal with the size","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2486s"},{"start_seconds":2494,"text":"of generated rust binaries rust is known for generating quite large binaries when compiled yeah because of statically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2494s"},{"start_seconds":2502,"text":"linked nature and it's a generally standard Library does not really optimize for the code size as compared","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2502s"},{"start_seconds":2510,"text":"to maybe go or some other languages so we do support the standard Library though like by default our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2510s"},{"start_seconds":2517,"text":"option is to disable the standard library but because that's required for like you know a lot of a lot of crates um we do we do offer that uh but it yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2517s"},{"start_seconds":2526,"text":"it does increase the binary size um but yeah uh if you can try to write things in non in no standard Library um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2526s"},{"start_seconds":2535,"text":"that being said you totally have that option uh but yeah it doesn't really matter for say Bonsai","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2535s"},{"start_seconds":2542,"text":"um there're still they're still overhead uh and can't get around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2542s"},{"start_seconds":2551,"text":"that thanks a lot no problem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2551s"},{"start_seconds":2558,"text":"great cool I'll let other people awesome awesome yeah I I think we we touched a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2558s"},{"start_seconds":2564,"text":"little bit on uh like AI uh llm there so I I think this would be a good way to Segway into um Zer knowledge machine","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2564s"},{"start_seconds":2574,"text":"learning I I think it you wanted to speak on that a little bit and other people jump in um I I just wanted to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2574s"},{"start_seconds":2582,"text":"share like my general idea and I was looking at the Zama AI uh project just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2582s"},{"start_seconds":2590,"text":"recently uh and it's related to the fully homomorphic encryption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2590s"},{"start_seconds":2598,"text":"Tech um I I don't know we haven't tried it yet but I was thinking if you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2598s"},{"start_seconds":2606,"text":"ideas about using like fly homomorphic encryption maybe you have used it in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2606s"},{"start_seconds":2613,"text":"your projects guys and I can do a quick recap of the idea of technology","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2613s"},{"start_seconds":2622,"text":"so uh like with Theo knowledge proof we can do some magical things like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2622s"},{"start_seconds":2629,"text":"extract personal data from credentials with u fully homomorphic encryption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2629s"},{"start_seconds":2636,"text":"as I understand it's possible to run computation on the cipher text and um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2636s"},{"start_seconds":2645,"text":"then produce the result as a cipher text as well um so it looks very very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2645s"},{"start_seconds":2652,"text":"promising in terms of privacy like big brother looking into your data but now it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2652s"},{"start_seconds":2661,"text":"can by you know by Design and and that's uh uh in my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2661s"},{"start_seconds":2670,"text":"mind creates a big opportunities like in general but I'm not really familiar with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2670s"},{"start_seconds":2677,"text":"the current state of the art also I think zi is a good example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2677s"},{"start_seconds":2685,"text":"yes uh my take short take on the field","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2685s"},{"start_seconds":2693,"text":"yes who wants to share also so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2693s"},{"start_seconds":2700,"text":"uh yeah we were actually looking at Zama uh here at hack chain uh but not specifically for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2700s"},{"start_seconds":2708,"text":"AI but we've been bumping into a a problem called shared private stage or common private","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2708s"},{"start_seconds":2716,"text":"stage uh and it we we were looking into it to kind of try to fix that issue like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2716s"},{"start_seconds":2723,"text":"how can we actually execute private reputation on a shared State and we we looked a bit into them R the dogs or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2723s"},{"start_seconds":2731,"text":"Jaso from hack chain you guys my uh he looked a bit more so yeah if you want I can share his contact and you guys can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2731s"},{"start_seconds":2739,"text":"chat but it was not looking into AI at all actually I'm also not looking into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2739s"},{"start_seconds":2746,"text":"AI just the you know the biggest thing in the room yeah I was also looking for some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2746s"},{"start_seconds":2756,"text":"use cases like in the past we wanted to do privacy preserving tracing like in Co","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2756s"},{"start_seconds":2764,"text":"times who at whom at which time this kind of like pandemic scoring","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2764s"},{"start_seconds":2770,"text":"systems uh that was my first encounter with the idea of homomorphic encryption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2770s"},{"start_seconds":2778,"text":"U but now days I I mean I I I will reach","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2778s"},{"start_seconds":2783,"text":"out to to you guys yeah let's see yeah just Reach Out reach us out on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2783s"},{"start_seconds":2792,"text":"Telegram and we can chat more but the thing we've seen with like uh F AJ is that like ZK is I I would please guys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2792s"},{"start_seconds":2802,"text":"don't get mad at me it's fairly experimental or fairly new for a lot of applications is even more like how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2802s"},{"start_seconds":2809,"text":"to build an application with that and that people actually trust it feels like it's a big part of the chall challeng so it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2809s"},{"start_seconds":2818,"text":"really look I think it's promising I don't know if people can trust the cas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2818s"},{"start_seconds":2823,"text":"schemes any I'm waiting for n you know n","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2823s"},{"start_seconds":2831,"text":"standardization to to do some promises for our customers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2831s"},{"start_seconds":2839,"text":"yes yeah oh that was my I think my Pinnacle of my yeah knowledge in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2839s"},{"start_seconds":2848,"text":"moment yeah it looks like um well there's there's a lot of hype around uh ckl at the moment I I I think it's only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2848s"},{"start_seconds":2857,"text":"going to grow really in the next few months uh should we I I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2857s"},{"start_seconds":2865,"text":"we yes exactly I'm sorry answer in the chat yeah yeah thanks uh Pedro do you want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2865s"},{"start_seconds":2873,"text":"hop on to talk about uh NDC private voting um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2873s"},{"start_seconds":2881,"text":"ZK yeah um sounds good so I also did not prepare any slides because it's more of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2881s"},{"start_seconds":2888,"text":"like so this is the near ZK group so I kind of wanted to bring it to discussion even though we talk about ZK I would say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2888s"},{"start_seconds":2895,"text":"like privacy as a whole it's something that we've been looking a lot here in Shaka chain and we've bumped into a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2895s"},{"start_seconds":2903,"text":"couple of different people or organizations that are talking a lot about private voting and I wanted to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2903s"},{"start_seconds":2911,"text":"bring it to discussion here so we've started to look into ways to kind of fix the problem as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2911s"},{"start_seconds":2918,"text":"a whole like how to provide private voting within blockchain and we haven't gotten to like a full conclusion in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2918s"},{"start_seconds":2927,"text":"sense that like voting is separated into three steps so first is registration and we can do that with ZK and do private","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2927s"},{"start_seconds":2936,"text":"registration that's fine second one is actually uh the balloting process where you have to deposit that vote and we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2936s"},{"start_seconds":2944,"text":"do that too with ZK and then the third part is telling the votes and that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2944s"},{"start_seconds":2951,"text":"the actual problem that we've we cannot like find a decent answer yet but at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2951s"},{"start_seconds":2959,"text":"same time I'm not even that sure what is going on with NDC and ow and I don't know if uh you might want to jump in on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2959s"},{"start_seconds":2966,"text":"that too like I'm fairly curious to know if there's anyone on near or anywhere else actually uh working with private","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2966s"},{"start_seconds":2974,"text":"voting and this three steps of the process like specifically the telling one to sum up or to add those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2974s"},{"start_seconds":2983,"text":"votes it's funny but I have been thinking about it a lot like for a year","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2983s"},{"start_seconds":2991,"text":"for the last year since elections I think uh so yeah tailing part is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2991s"},{"start_seconds":2997,"text":"most difficult and I think some combination of homomorphic encryption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=2997s"},{"start_seconds":3003,"text":"and thres threshold cryptography will work eventually um yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3003s"},{"start_seconds":3013,"text":"but yeah we have had some ideas how to do this and actually I think Blaze was very interested I don't know if you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3013s"},{"start_seconds":3022,"text":"the guy um no I from the conso uh we discussed with him a little","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3022s"},{"start_seconds":3031,"text":"bit um so we we should reach out once we have some proof of concept","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3031s"},{"start_seconds":3038,"text":"implementation maybe let's involve yeah Z AI for this we thought about oh there you go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3038s"},{"start_seconds":3048,"text":"H uh we looked into a possible solution it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3048s"},{"start_seconds":3057,"text":"like public good for the ecosystem like in my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3057s"},{"start_seconds":3064,"text":"opinion because public voting was a mess you know lots of Scandal lots","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3064s"},{"start_seconds":3071,"text":"of H feelings and lots of violation of human","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3071s"},{"start_seconds":3078,"text":"rights in in the legal sense yeah exactly and yeah go ahead","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3078s"},{"start_seconds":3086,"text":"Owen sorry I I think uh to to add a little bit of context I think the best person to reach out to regarding this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3086s"},{"start_seconds":3094,"text":"would be Alex I'm not sure of his last name uh but he's he's head of Ops of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3094s"},{"start_seconds":3101,"text":"NDC and it is within they do have some budget allocated to this uh in their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3101s"},{"start_seconds":3109,"text":"priorities uh and and we have we have Chloe here who I believe is in House of Merit uh maybe you can add any more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3109s"},{"start_seconds":3117,"text":"context if you do uh and I've just seen that they're actually looking for a for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3117s"},{"start_seconds":3124,"text":"a Dev with knowledge uh what knowledge of zero knowledge so it might may be along those sort of lines I've just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3124s"},{"start_seconds":3133,"text":"dropped the the link for the Java advertisement in there but yeah there's some there's some giga brains in this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3133s"},{"start_seconds":3140,"text":"poll right now and in our zero knowledge community so we we definitely need you guys involved um with with the voting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3140s"},{"start_seconds":3149,"text":"system for sure that's that's my that's my thoughts on it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3149s"},{"start_seconds":3155,"text":"all go ahead thanks yeah like what what been I've been thinking a lot is like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3155s"},{"start_seconds":3163,"text":"it's fairly hard to find a solution that works only using near or any other specific blockchain like the the best uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3163s"},{"start_seconds":3172,"text":"and please guys don't hate me but the best case that we found so so far is using te to actually add the votes so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3172s"},{"start_seconds":3180,"text":"you kind of do like registration and buting with ZK and then you use te to add it and destroy the machines but then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3180s"},{"start_seconds":3189,"text":"again it's te and I know that there's like a lot of hate with it and we can't like think of anything that would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3189s"},{"start_seconds":3196,"text":"actually work solely with within a smart contract you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3196s"},{"start_seconds":3202,"text":"know I I also can't imagine like it's not being a hybrid at least several steps","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3202s"},{"start_seconds":3210,"text":"seem uh and also let's consider using risk zero for some kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3210s"},{"start_seconds":3217,"text":"of tailing maybe I I did I did post a link to uh one of the examples that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3217s"},{"start_seconds":3224,"text":"have for a voting machine um we've tested this out with like Dow voting um before and uh yeah it's it's mostly for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3224s"},{"start_seconds":3233,"text":"tallying um and this is actually quite reant relevant to my experience in the past I used to work in gitcoin uh which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3233s"},{"start_seconds":3241,"text":"is fundamentally based on this like concept of kind of voting with tokens in a way uh to distribute pools of money um and there wasn't a good solution at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3241s"},{"start_seconds":3249,"text":"time but I think I think this voting example should should Point uh some groups in the right direction thanks H super cool yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3249s"},{"start_seconds":3259,"text":"looking into it yeah appreciate it and I'm not with n this at all like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3259s"},{"start_seconds":3266,"text":"not involved in year at all I was just interested in the private te part","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3266s"},{"start_seconds":3273,"text":"yes but also Owen that that was my take on it uh I don't have anything else to add yeah thanks P for the raising this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3273s"},{"start_seconds":3282,"text":"thing no I only have a lot of Mir swag from last Mir con because it was last new went there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3282s"},{"start_seconds":3291,"text":"and it was like the event was finishing and everyone had a lot of swag to distribute and there was no one here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3291s"},{"start_seconds":3298,"text":"so I got a lot of t-shirts so if if anyone also wants a lot of near t-shirts I have like about a 100 at home I know what you're doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3298s"},{"start_seconds":3307,"text":"with interesting interesting we will consider I I think that's us all like uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3307s"},{"start_seconds":3315,"text":"going to e Denver I'm not going to pack any t-shirts no socks because I know I'll find them all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3315s"},{"start_seconds":3321,"text":"the definitely and oh haa from hacker chain will be there I think you guys met","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3321s"},{"start_seconds":3328,"text":"on newon last year I don't know if you remember also has like long hair I'll I'll let him know that you be there oh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3328s"},{"start_seconds":3335,"text":"awesome is blonde hair oh no that's wrong right yeah it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3335s"},{"start_seconds":3344,"text":"like for sure like really really dark cool cool uh yes and uh Seth to answer your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3344s"},{"start_seconds":3353,"text":"message in the chat I think it it's like a priority too um but I the the the NDC seemed to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3353s"},{"start_seconds":3363,"text":"want to fund an implementation right but I couldn't see any sort of like research be be funded really around this uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3363s"},{"start_seconds":3372,"text":"yeah there's I believe there's some budget in there and I think if you want to do something I would reach out in the DMS","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3372s"},{"start_seconds":3380,"text":"first to the council and uh this Alex Alex guy I'm I'm happy to put you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3380s"},{"start_seconds":3388,"text":"in contact Alex from aora you mean Alex no no not not Alex from Aurora Alex head","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3388s"},{"start_seconds":3395,"text":"of ops Oh go ahead chlo go ahead yeah sorry just to add a little bit more context so the head of it's called NDC","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3395s"},{"start_seconds":3403,"text":"Ops like NDC operations they work on the governance framework um and some of the other technical details for voting and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3403s"},{"start_seconds":3409,"text":"elections it's Alex Bato so Alex B and he'd be the best person to reach out to uh they are looking to hire someone to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3409s"},{"start_seconds":3416,"text":"help out with for example someone with a ZK background Russ specific to help out with like the Dow upgrades as well um as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3416s"},{"start_seconds":3425,"text":"other eventual privacy like private voting implementations as well so I mean as a House of Merit member I am on the house of Merit uh personally I am also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3425s"},{"start_seconds":3433,"text":"uh looking to try and get privacy added obviously it might be in stages um but still the I think from the many members","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3433s"},{"start_seconds":3441,"text":"of the House of Merit are looking to uh like how do we get to that point where near is the place where we can invest into and have a place where private","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3441s"},{"start_seconds":3449,"text":"voting is like the norm um so yeah just to add some more contact got you so Alex B yeah that's the right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3449s"},{"start_seconds":3458,"text":"contact got you I think it might be good to spin up like a group chat with with um all the ones interested in uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3458s"},{"start_seconds":3468,"text":"participate in you could do this would be super nice yeah I I'll have a look about it um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3468s"},{"start_seconds":3477,"text":"yeah I I see we we've gone past the hour here uh but does anyone have any more topics they want to discuss or should we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3477s"},{"start_seconds":3484,"text":"wrap it up there okay I think I think that's it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3484s"},{"start_seconds":3492,"text":"then okay uh yeah thanks everyone for joining in and I wish you all the best I'll uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3492s"},{"start_seconds":3501,"text":"I'll drop some more more links in the the Zer knowledge uh Channel regarding this and I I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3501s"},{"start_seconds":3510,"text":"um more people wanted to hear about risk zero so if you could drop some links as well hands that would be great are you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3510s"},{"start_seconds":3518,"text":"in are you in the zero knowledge um near zero knowledge chat no but if you could drop a link to that I'll gladly join","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3518s"},{"start_seconds":3527,"text":"yeah sure well I I dropped some links earlier but I'll I'll drop them all again oh I see it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3527s"},{"start_seconds":3535,"text":"sweet I'll drop it for the benefit of everyone yeah the the Community page and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3535s"},{"start_seconds":3543,"text":"the the telegram is on there awesome all right thanks everyone great to see you all thanks everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3543s"},{"start_seconds":3551,"text":"have a great day evening bye bye thanks everyone bye bye","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3551s"},{"start_seconds":3563,"text":"cheers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc&t=3563s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=nNMeudZL2Pc","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/nNMeudZL2Pc"}