{"id":"gVi-A6kHFLk","title":"Live from Quantum + Privacy Day w/ The Rollup","description":"NEAR is the Blockchain for AI\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nNEAR AI: https://near.ai/\nIntents: https://near.org/intents\nChain Abstraction: https://www.proximity.dev/\nSharding: https://nearone.org/\n\nFor the devs\nGitHub: https://github.com/near \nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nDevhub: https://devhub.near.page/ @NEARDevHub\n\nConnect with socials\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \n#NEAR #nearprotocol #NEARAI","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2026-10-07T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/gVi-A6kHFLk/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"17. Second floor. We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back. I think the rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto. It's probably one of the first rollup episodes, right? Um adding it to my library as we speak. potentially multi-chain deployments. We are at Dev Connect day one. Here I'm Jess from Bas. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish. He said it. He finally said it. So bullish. It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. The rollup is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. Rollup is my favorite. People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. Be more bullish. Mir day quantum day. Welcome to token 2049. We made the plane, baby girl. We're lit. Near's at 547. Stop us. Quantis is flying. We will get Joe's right here. Joe, get in here. Joe, get in here. Say, tell us what's going on. How does it feel? Quantum 15. What's going on? You know, I'm really grateful to be here. We got an excellent crowd. Quantum and privacy is probably the most important topic right now in blockchain and crypto. And yeah, I'm just happy. So, who are you? Who are you? So, my name is Joe Matia. I'm the co-founder of Quantis. Um, we are Quantum Secure Encrypted Money layer 1 blockchain. We just launched on near intense two days ago. Uh really successful launch and um yeah there's a massive rallying cry around Quantum right now. Justin Drake came out with a post that says it is time to enter bunker mode. Was this pre-ordained? Was this coordinated? How did you time the release of Quantis with such impeccable timing? You know, I would like to think that we have the mandate of heaven. I think that we are OG Bitcoiners. We're OG crypto uh people. I've been in the game since 2017. And you know, I've always been looking for how can I add value? how can I participate in this ecosystem? What can I do? And when I learned about the quantum threat to cryptography, I went, \"Wow, this is so obvious.\" And then we started bringing it up two years ago, going to different conferences and people, smart people, cryptographers were really on. They were really like, \"Yeah, this makes sense.\" And a lot of people were very skeptical of it. And so I found that interesting that they were skeptical of something that the whole foundation of crypto is built on cryptography and if something could threaten the cryptography. And I thought, okay, this is like I see I've been in tech for, you know, since I was a teenager, right? And people have been talking about, you know, quantum is 20 years out. Quantum is 20 years out. Well, it's been 20 years. And now with AI accelerating research in all different areas of tech, quantum is if there was a 1% chance that quantum could break elliptic curves, uh should we not do something about it? And so we said, \"Yeah, we should.\" And our investors thought we should. And so we started building quantum. tell us about some of the team uh on the advisor side. You know, we we've seen the likes of of folks on the roster today. La, Ellie, Ben, Cissone, Zuko, Bellagi, Ilia. Um I think Naval is involved in some in some way. How did you, you know, kind of build this all-star roster and how did you even create these? Okay, let me let me clarify a few things about who um um so so we do have some great advisers. Some of them are friends but not advisers I should. Okay. Um so we have Ragav who was formerly uh the CEO of Coin List. He's one of our adviserss. We have Tom Howard from Zcash Labs. He's one of our adviserss. We have Joey Santoro uh from Fay Protocol. Um gosh, who else do we have? Um yeah. So, so we have an incredible lineup. Bumiji was our our second investor uh second largest investor. Came in um really early uh two years ago to support the project. And um uh we have we've did all angels. Every every round we did was all angel investors which I'm really proud of and it was it people really believed in what we were doing. Um really scrappy. We didn't raise a lot of money. We you know two 2.5 million total. Um and I I'm I'm actually really proud that we were able to get this far with so little money and no VC backing. And there's a reason that you're here with NAR at this P and Q this privacy and quantum day. Tell us about the work that you're doing with Near and how it's a little bit different for a coin. You know I like to say real recognize real. We met the near guys about a year and a half ago um in Dubai and we were at this uh we were at some side event party and uh there was a white board and you know Chris is a been in crypto my my co-founder Chris uh for over 10 years and him and Elia are on the white board going at it with Ellie and all that and and they were like oh th they saw it they said this is obvious we need a quantum secure blockchain built from the foundation to be the benchmark they knew that this was going to be important yet all the other chains have the opportunity to migrate which is a separate topic we could talk about that but to have something that was built quantum secure from day one this we are the benchmark we are the gold standard for every other chain to look at and say okay how what's your quantum uh what's your QTPS you know what's your transactions per second yeah amazing and so tell us uh uh I mean I guess what people can expect over the next few months we're really really excited as we close out we're getting ready for our for our next guest we're going to have a fantastic set of interviews tell us a little bit about what people can expect over the next couple of weeks and months. Yeah. I mean, look, you know, the quantum threat to crypto is real. Um, I think, you know, the community and the marketplace is voting with their dollars. You can check the launch. We're tradeable on near.com, you know, join follow us on X. Check out and, you know, stay tuned. Um, Joe Mat on X, uh, Quantis Network. Um, and, uh, we'd love to hear from you guys, you know. Joe, you're the man. Thank you for having us out. Pleasure to be a part of this and, uh, we're really excited. Amazing. Awesome. We'll see you soon. All right, guys. That was Joe and uh we are absolutely uh excited and uh we're having we're having fun. We just went live here at Privacy and Quantum Day. Uh our next guest Joe is totally impromptu so that was well managed. Our next guest technically our first guest maybe our second guest is Ellie Benson uh involved in the Zcash ecosystem. uh founder of Starknet, uh one of the uh people that I think it's important that we listen to as we try to parse out what is real and what isn't real. Ellie, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you uh as always. Thanks for being here. And yeah, everyone is very curious. I think right now they're trying to determine uh what is real about quantum, what is not, how does privacy fit into this, do we need to migrate our coins, are we really at risk right now? maybe you can just give us a sense of how you've approached the quantum problem up till now and then we'll we'll kind of dig into some of more of the nuts and bolts. Yeah, so even when I was working on the cryptography that ended up being Zcash. So I was one of the founding scientists and a co-founder of it and I'm very proud of that I was thinking about or we were thinking about uh what do we do uh with uh quantum and how do we build safer uh cryptographic ZK protocols that give you privacy and also quantum resistance. And the good news is that since 2018 uh we already know how to solve this problem. So another paper that I wrote back then an academic paper um called ZK Starks actually has in the title you know postquantum zero knowledge. So that technology exists and by now it's uh in production used in starknet uh you know for scaling a whole bunch of uh decentralized exchanges and has privacy in it. Now whether we need to migrate I think the short answer is yes. We need to prepare migrating all of our technology to things that are postquantum secure and in this respect um I want to say that at starknet we will prepare things to be a safe haven and if that means starknet needs to become an L1 because it cannot rely on the security of other things that's certainly something that we are actively considering. And what is it about an L1 that differentiates it, right? Because Ethereum is is really doing a ton of research into this quantum problem, trying to help, you know, move us into a quantum resistant and secure paradigm. And so what is it about taking an L2 and turning it into L1 that can make it more quantum resistant than Ethereum is already planning to do? Well, where Ethereum is heading is where Starknet is now. So Ethereum is talking about moving to ZK Starks, moving to a new VM that is ZK Stark friendly. All of that is following the footsteps of Starknet. It exists today. Now right now we are reliant on the security of Ethereum and many parts of it are not quantum safe. So what it would mean if we had to move and become an L1, it would mean to replace basically that layer with a quantum resistant layer that has only you know hashes maybe proof of work is quantum resistant allows postquantum signatures all of that stuff can be built and why would we need to move that it's very simple if Ethereum does not move fast enough and I'm not sure it will like that's the basic question. Wow. Okay. And so despite Ethereum's work and going towards a more quantum resistant future it may not be moving fast enough. You says you you say it is now time to migrate. What is it about the ZK start paper that you wrote back in 2018 that makes it quantum resistance? Give us a little bit more of a technical answer so that we can really understand what is going on. So um every time uh you know breaking cryptography is a little bit like solving a maze and you know finding the exit and quantum physics allows you to explore many different paths of the maze at the same time. It's a little bit like this shreddinger's cat where you can be in many different positions and then sort of uh magically you end up only in one universe where it's the exit. So that's what quantum computers do to things like elliptic curves. But there are other kinds of mazes like the kinds that ZK starks are built on called hash functions which don't have this nice structure and for them quantum computers just cannot help you break the system or find an easy exit. So that is why ZK starks are safer from a quantum point of view. Just just to make sure Zcash is that system. It is uh hashbased and it is this sort of maze that a quantum computer could not break. I'm not involved in Zcash these days anymore. I think many parts of it are not yet uh that kind of cryptography. I think it still relies too much on the older kind of cryptography which is elliptic curve cryptography. What I was referring to was Starknet and ZK Starks which are uh that technology is postquantum secure today. It is. Yeah. And is is that a requirement Ellie now? Like do you feel that that is a requirement for I think it's something that we should really get our act together on on really adopting quickly to postquantum secure things because the bigger threat is not the quantum computer. It's the super intelligence in math of classical computers. And like what might happen tomorrow is like some of these systems could just be broken, right? Even before Qday, we could reach that with AI. Yes. And this would be far worse because it means that now keys can be just compromised by anyone, not just by folks that have a quantum. And how important is it that we do this at the L1 level versus turning something that's already existing into what we might call quantum resistant or quantum secure? How possible is it to upgrade an existing system versus build something from scratch? Both of them are very hard, but like it's somewhat easier to build something from scratch from scratch. And other things that we're considering building is also sort of safe havens in the following sense like allowing people to save a spot for the eventuality of like a quantum break. There are ways for you to do on Bitcoin, on Ethereum, things that would make you a little bit safer if there's a catastrophe and then sort of move on to a safer place if you need. So, this isn't a black and white paradigm. There are some gray areas where we can make ourselves a little bit more safe without going entirely quantum secure. Yes, there's we're entering a period of extreme uncertainty and I think it's all about hedging and preparing for the future and preparing for the unknown unknowns. Okay. Um I have a separate question. Um when you I don't know if you had a chance to look at that Justin Drake tweet today or post today. Uh I I know you you know you guys spoke on the Ethereum front there. Um when you think about the kind of call to action being like hey don't have exposed public keys like do what you can to get your public keys in order that they're not exposed and like kind of sitting ducks. Yeah. Like I don't know if the question is like how urgent or like how real but I think like the bigger idea is like is that all that it's going to take from the user perspective like what do I need to know as a user? How do I as a user prepare you know and the answer might be bridge to starkware right or you know bridge to starket but how do I kind of prepare from a user perspective uh with my assets across different chains etc. I do think the the the the shortest answer is does involve Starknet just because um we're probably the most crypto agile and most uh you know advanced when it comes to postquantum cryptography. But the problem is that if you're on a blockchain where all the other keys gets get exposed and you know the smart contracts are compromised and everything like that then it doesn't really help if you know you are uh you know you sort of uh how do you say rotated your keys or something that doesn't help. You need to be in a place where everything is uh quantum ready and quant and and crypto agile which means you can move very quickly to adopt the very the most advanced technology that would be the safest and and frankly that's why we built Starknet. So are are there solutions that users can take now uh that would prepare us for super intelligence on classical computers and how does that differ from the kind of path that we might take to prepare against a quantum threat? I think that unfortunately uh it has to be something on the infrastructure layer like you can't I mean you could hedge a little bit or like move to safe grounds. I mentioned starknet but like you know still for users it's mostly like screaming out to uh developers and and uh to adopt safer technologies. So Justin Drake says enter it's time to enter bunker mode and you're saying that's maybe not sufficient. I just tweeted I retweeted his and I said Starknet is that ZK bunker. ZK Starks are the ZK bunker that they are moving towards. I got one more. Do you think Bitcoin is safe? No, obviously not. And do you think Bitcoin's monetary properties of being a store of value asset? Something that you want to be able to put in a vault underground, bury it, come back to it in 10 years and know that it's not going to be, let's call it, fucked with. Uh like gold has that property, right? Do you think Bitcoin's lost that property to a certain extent? Well, um, right now it's that big threat and I think part of the price action reflects that. But the the way what we're going to try and do is again offer safe havens and means for Bitcoiners to reserve a spot for a case where you know things are compromised and we'll try to do that for as many chains as we can on top of Starket so there's a safe haven. Imagine that sort of uh Bitcoin, you know, the infrastructure goes down for a while until the, you know, everyone finally agrees to do a soft fork that will allow for postquantum security. So, you would want uh some system where you could sort of reserve a spot, be there while things are being fixed and then go back there. So, a little bit like uh you know a nuclear bunker. So, we're building that on Stark. Yeah. Okay. And so with that lens you you know Robbie had asked this right about like is it better to kind of start fresh or uh you know change or you know adapt Quantis you know is putting on this event. I find it hard to like I'm happy that that that this team has came out. It sounds great on paper. The people here are fantastic but I you know I'm not even nearly as technical as you are let alone even to the level of understanding what is quantum resistant or not. So, I find it hard to like understand like, you know, how legitimate is a new company that's, you know, not even not just them, just like anyone that says they're quantum resistant or quantum ready. I just I'm like, okay, like how do I know? And what I came to find out from speaking with them last night and others is that there's this inevitable impossibility of like you never actually really know. Like you can work and work and work and work and be like the most quantum resistant today, but tomorrow you cannot be enough. Yes. Is that like the right way to frame these kind of companies that are like building these products for this kind of postquantum world? Is it really just like they they've done by the standards that the NSA sets out that there's governmental standards for this technology? You have those stamps of approval, but even still at that point, you know, it's still kind of like there's always that inevitability or possibility. I think um crypto agility is the most important thing. right? Being, you know, being on an infrastructure and working with teams that, you know, can move very fast, know their shit when it comes to cryptography and math and can adapt quickly. Um, and I I believe Quantis is a very strong team. You know, Near is strong, Zash is strong. Obviously, you know, Starknet I think is the best and um you know, Bitcoin, I love it a lot, but like uh it's really uh the sort of uh mindset where of sticking the head in the sand and saying, you know, no soft forks for anything, not even Opcat. I think that's going to be very very damaging unfortunately, but it's not too late to change course and say there's a problem, you know, Houston, there's a situation and let's start doing software. So that agility aspect is the important part there. Yes. Yeah. Have you looked at Quantis technology, what what do they do well? What do they need to improve on? I I met a few of the teams and I'm very impressed with their sort of vision and so on. And I know many of the supporters I now when I run Starkware as CEO, I just don't have enough time to do uh technical diveins, but I think they're a solid team. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't have What's next? I mean, it's been a while. Yeah. Catch us up on Starknet and catch us up on Exactly. Because you mentioned how Starknet is one of the It is the ZK bunker. You can go there. You can kind of reserve a spot. It's pretty based. Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are going to see that as a potential escape hack that they can go to, kind of wait out the quantum threat, whether they're in Bitcoin or something else, and then reserve that spot to go back to the original chain once that threat has been resolved. What else is possible? Obviously, that's a huge value proposition in and of itself, but while they're in the ZK bunker, what can they do in there? Oh, so one thing that we're I'm very proud of that we released is uh so so you know, I co-ounded Zcash. I'm very proud of it, but like Zcash is sort of the bunker style. Well, you know, the sort of uh Bitcoin version of privacy. Uh so you can only transfer uh Zcash shielded in it. But what we built on Starknet, it's called Stark 20 is a usable form of privacy that gives you like very good UX and you can do a whole bunch of things. And one product that we just released that I'm very proud of is sort of a VPN for Poly Market where basically it's called offmarket. You can access it at offmarket.cx and you can go there and do uh basically poly market trading but you're shielded and it has a very uh simple UX. You can come onto it from any chain from you know credit cards and so on. So like this VPN layer uh usable privacy is another thing that is enabled on Starknet and I'm very proud of. Yeah. So, um, one of our, uh, sponsors of the show and just friends that we kind of came to learn about is this company called Zama. This sounds similar in a sense that Zcash is kind of like the store of value privacy, but then there's still this race for this in the same way Ethereum was the programmable money for Bitcoin. There's now this race for programmable privacy on chain. Obviously, Near.com does a great job, right, with their actual uh kind of like I don't know, call it like a harness, almost like an AI harness that you have, kind of like your onchain harness, uh kind of like a confidential black box on chain. But what you're getting at is more of like powering applications in the smart smart contract space with privacy. And I think that's a very unexplored and a massive TAM for the world because it's like if smart contracts and onchain finance is going to eat a lot of finance and eat a lot of like, you know, commerce and things, then that privacy element is going to be everywhere as well. There's a huge pie there, right? So, we have that. We have like uh you know, DeFi that is composable. We have AMMs, uh swaps, things like that that you can do in a shielded manner without like with very good UX. As I said, we have this VPN layer for Poly Market. We're probably going to extend it. The VPN layer, that's a good marketing term as well. Exactly. So, we want to make it exactly as you said like uh uh the version of programmable private money that also happens to be postquantum secure and a safe haven for uh you know, the crypto. question for you on this. So um you know I look at Zama I look at RCM starkware starknet um near intense even to a certain extent and I and I see competition but I also see a lot of collaborative opportunity. So how do you think about integrating kind of these worlds together like you know obviously there's only so many apps apps that are doing well there's only so you know so much right now on chain but you know 10 years from now it's going to grow a ton. How do you plan to kind of like like how does Stark and Starkware fit in with Near with Zcash Zama like how is there like a because the end goal is privacy on chain right that's what we're trying to build here not it's not just one team that's going to tackle it how do you kind of think about that so we we have very good connections obviously to to Zcash you know I know Zuko from back in the day when you co-founded it um very friendly also with the near team so near intense already um bridges over to uh Starknet here's like a cool thing like one of the only places where you could get exposure to uh um predictions on Zcash price is a product that appears only on Starknet. It's called Super Vega. You can Google it and like uh sometimes I tweet about my own predictions on Zcash. I've seen them. I've seen them later $3,500. I went for 5K, you know, I went wild, but my first prediction when it was like around, I don't know, 500 or 800, I predicted 1,200 by the end of a month and I, you know, that landed. Um so like Super Vega is another example of something that exists only on Starknet allows you basically options trading for retail but uh on things like Zcash lighter, Bitcoin, Ethereum, STRK obviously the the STRK token you can do all of that and um this is the Zcash part for instance is by basically collaboration with near intense. So you have like and another fun thing is you can actually shield Zcash on Starknet under the STRK usable privacy uh platform and then you can swap it privately using AMMs and stuff like that. We have a saying on the show that's uh a dollar onchain tends to stay onchain and I think about privacy a very similar way. A dollar that's confidential or shielded tends to stay shielded. Yeah. You don't like once you go into near.com on in the confidential intents and things, you you're not going back on chain and being like, let let me go out and not be private. It's it's a b it's a it's a luxury, right? Well, it's a luxury currently. It'll be the default soon. We'll see. Yeah. Ellie, thanks so much, man. Really really appreciate it as always. Pleasure to have you on. Yes. It's been too long, so I have to get you on again soon. Thank you. Thanks, Ellie. All righty. Um, guys, I mean, I'm bullish. Yeah, bullish start. I mean, look at that. more secure than many of the other alternatives. I'm glad that there is competitive forces, but I look, I don't think these are as I don't think these are as competitive as we might think. I think of it, look, we're in Singapore. There's a massive like capitalist like capital here and it we don't think of like Singapore and Manhattan as competitive with one another. Yeah. I think of these as building out the confidential or shielded economy on chain. Yeah. And the dollar that's private, you know, it was very much like an original thesis that we had around Ethereum where like if you had a dollar that went into a base, right, that would ultimately benefit like a dollar that would go into another L2 like a Starknet, right? And it was very, you know, uh, positive sum. And I think that private, it's not always like that, but I think the privacy economy is like that right now where if you get a net new dollar into one of these confidential applications, it is actually a net new user of liquidity, net new unit of liquidity that could end up flowing potentially into one of these other privacy. Guys, on that note, we're doing a $2,49 giveaway. Hopefully Steph in the audience gets it. Uh if you want to just zoom in on the camera here a bit if possible. Uh we're doing a giveaway here. uh $2,49. I I've I've heard there's been some weird QR code shenanigans in token. So, uh we're you just got to scan the QR code, guys. Uh it takes you to our landing page, type in your email, follow us on X, do whatever you can. Alex is going to walk around the venue, hand these out to people. Um and we're going to make sure and I think we've got a signed copy. You're the man. Appreciate it, Ellie. Let's get Ellie on the camera here. Ellie, what do we have here? Go ahead. Sit down and tell us. What do we have? Look, tell uh tell that camera. Tell us what we Uh my book uh tells my story of Zcash, Zero Knowledge, how I moved from being a mathematician to uh founding well two companies. Um and I just gave a signed copy to both uh Andy and Robbie. So thank you so much. Thank you very much. Appreciate. We'll see you next time. This is an airplane reading October 2026. Robbie, keep hitting it out of the park. Respect Ellie. Keep hitting it out of the park. Respect. My portfolio is out of the park, ladies and gentlemen. Much respect to Ellie Benson. What is Near trading at right now? Near is flying on this news of new quantum threats. 542 Near Protocol cracks the top 20. My goat Wake would like to be allowed on the stream. Speak the good gospel of Nearcat. Yeah, Nearcat. He's going to be on the stream. He's going to be on the stream at 3 p.m. Nearcat. Wake is coming on the pod. Nearcat is coming on the pod. Ladies and gentlemen, own at least key 10 QTC. Thank me later, buddy. I own a lot more than that. A lot more than that, Rob. Yeah, upwards of 150 right now. You guys heard from Joe. My goodness. No financial advice. You guys might be hearing about QTC for a long time, but obviously you've got very very technical people that are now coming out of the woodwork and starting to endorse QTC and Quantis. And I think I mean whether it was coordinated this uh this this post from Justin Drake and the Quantis launch, whether that was coordinated or not, it does show you that Quantum is real and people are starting to take it very very seriously. So, I I think this launch couldn't have been better timed and it was an extremely extremely pertinent launch. What What do we have here? What's going on behind? We're cooking. We're cooking. We're cooking hard. We're cooking with gas. Uh check your Telegram. Uh my lovely friend. Um we need our next guest in the Anakah group chat. Uh guys, I mean, look, the market's down a little bit. Um but we're up. I mean, we're feeling good. Uh we're here at the Quantis Day with Near. I mean, Near's one of the leaders of this entire week, Rob. I mean, look, we called it, I think, in a way. Like, I was like I put out a tweet and I was like, \"Hey, like I think Near, Quantis, and Zcash are going to be some of the biggest winners of this week.\" And frankly, here we are. Yeah. I mean, look, the market is validating some of the things that we've been talking about for a long time. Uh, I think the perceived threat of quantum and the perceived threat of AI are particularly pertinent right now. People are taking them. so much more seriously than they had been even over the last recent months. And I think look whether you think this is months, years or decades away, the fact is that it is a perceived threat. And and the market is now in a momentum based paradigm. And I think perceived narratives, perceived threats can have as much impact as very real threats to overcome the sense of apathy that we saw for for many months. And so perceived notions are now uh now causing massive impacts on the market. I agree, man. I mean, look, we have the classic conference pullback. We're not, you know, this is nothing new. We're not worried about it. I like the dynamic. You got like a navy blue suit, but it's black. I got like a fully black. You got a fully black. I got a navy blue. Well, don't worry. You got a whole navy blue. Wait, you have a navy? This is navy. This is the same suit I've been wearing. I thought you I thought this was black. You got your glasses now, dude. I got you another I got you another navy blue suit. Nothing that's not nothing to mad about. Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. Is it arriving today? Tomorrow morning 6:15 a.m. at the airport along with our t-shirts that we're going to be giving away. Be more bullish t-shirts. Be more bullish t-shirts that we're going to be giving away. All right, guys. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back from the near quantum and privacy day. That boy Joe's fired up. See you guys in a second. QTC 158. No way. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. last. Last last We get deep. We get know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we We get you know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We We get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get yo yo yo. What's going on, guys? This is Itan with the rollup. We're going to be patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have most. What are people trading? What are people investing in? How much do people actually budget? We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets. We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212. 3, two, one. We're here at the uh Quantum Privacy Day with UV Lightman, the CEO of Quantis. Uh for those of you guys who don't know, Quantis is a new layer 1 blockchain focused on quantum resistant technology. U congrats on on the launch on near intense. Uh very smart choice if I do say so myself. Quick reflections, who are you and why? and just quick reflections on the launch and I think where did you come from? I think it's important that people understand like the story as far as what brought you here because people are very very excited. They're very enthralled around the team and the friends and the network that Quantis is surrounded by. So help us understand how you arrived to launch Quantis. Well, I mean so I uh you know I was a math nerd in school. You know, computer science, AI, quantum computing. I was just like fascinated with any high-tech stuff. And um you know I've been for a lot of my career in the sort of more hacker underground uh you know I was like a cyber security consultant for high net worth individuals and things like that. So so I don't you know I I'm I don't love getting lots of attention but for this project I had to do it. So so here we are. Um and uh but you know I I got into Bitcoin early on. You know, there's a whole story of how I heard about it that I probably shouldn't tell online, but um but uh you know, I was too scared to do anything uh with the with the you know, the dark markets, but I I was fascinated by the technology. And you know, it was the first international wire transfer I ever sent was to to Mount Gaus, you know, and I was like I was a poor grad student. I was like, am I going to lose all my money? And my dad's like, you're definitely going to lose all your money. So, fortunately, this one time he was wrong. But um but the uh you know, so so I' I've been early to a lot of things. sometimes too early. But um but really, you know, th this was I was just placed in a position where I got I basically heard about the quantum thing before other people did. And uh and you know, I I I'm always ranting to my friends about uh you know, how a blockchain should be built. And you know, one of our investor friends was one day he was just like, you know what, you should like just shut up. Just like go build it yourself if you know so much. And I was just like, you know, it stung a little bit. But uh but yeah, so here we are. I I think there's a lot of people that are now hearing about quantum. You heard it about it very very early, but and and started to build this in preparation for it. I mean, and but now there's a lot of people that are taking it a lot more seriously, seriously thinking about migrating coins to what people consider more quantum resistant technology, but you actually went out and you built that. So, help us understand what's real. Do people need to migrate? And why is Quantis the solution? Yeah, just help us understand. Yeah, exactly. What's real about Quantis? Well, okay. So, so, uh, you know, a lot of people hear, you know, oh, quantum computing and, you know, maybe they're like, oh, sci-fi, oh, it's a computer can do anything instantly, and that's not really true. Uh, there's there's, you know, a wide variety of problems where a quantum computer gets a moderate speed up. You know, there's quantum algorithms that only run on a quantum computer. Uh, but there's a very narrow range of problems where you get an extreme speed up and, uh, you know, it's like a laser cutting through butter. And uh unfortunately that happens to include the math problems that we use to secure most public key cryptography today. So it's elliptic curves and RSA. So so those things are going to have to go. Now on exactly what timeline, we don't know. And of course that that depends a lot on uh you know what your risk tolerance is and and and what's uh how how critical those systems are. So, uh, so if you're, you know, if you got a trillion dollar asset secured by elliptic curves, you might want to be taking it seriously because, uh, because, you know, with Bitcoin, not only, uh, do you have to implement the technology, which, you know, Bitcoin is notoriously slow at doing that, but you also have to migrate people to the new tech technology. You have to get people to stop using the old thing and start using the new thing. And it's not something where, you know, an engineer can just push a button and force everyone to do it. And uh and so you know to contrast this like signal private messenger iMessage uh cloudflare they already went postquantum and and just nobody noticed unless you're like in this you know. So I got I got one more questions man. Well I'm just curious about the QTC token. I think a lot of people are going to see this and they're going to things ripping today. Yeah. They're going to feel they're going to feel they're going to feel caught off sides. Right. So, so as you describe the Quantis technology, I think people are going to start to take that seriously. But why is it also important that they take the QTC token seriously? Well, look, I mean, we we like I said, I'm a I'm a Bitcoiner. I uh I I think I've got one-shotted by this idea of fix the money, fix the world. And so, we tried to take all the good ideas that Bitcoin had and just fix the few small things that that, you know, it just wasn't ready for. And so uh you know the 21 million coins uh the the focused on just the money use case we're not a smart contract platform and and but what about the launch sorry like the fair launch here like the process there intents your investors like how much overhang is there you know just if you can share just very quickly about like how you guys are like what this you know kind of vesting is just give us like the transparent answer as to like why if I buy this I'm not going to get fucked who's going to dump on me how is it being mine Who owns the supply? Like what's going on? That's what I'm getting asked on Telegram right now. No, these are important question. Super important question. So So we decided to not do a dev tax because it's harder for people to sort of compute how much that's going to how much overhang that is. The uh so we did a pre-mine essentially a premint of uh 27% and that's locked up for a year and then uh and then drips out linearly over 3 years. So it's a sort of standard Silicon Valley structure in that sense. And uh but the the you know it's uh the unlocks are onchain you can view everything happening and uh and and there was a a small portion that 1% that we we we put into a liquidity bucket so that we could provide liquidity on near intense at the beginning to to avoid a kind of you sometimes in a low liquidity environment like prices can do some really silly things and then people get hurt. So we wanted to have it more you know like appropriately sized. Now obviously it's uh you know still it's early days so please guys be you know be smart don't don't uh you know like think about the FTV as well as the market cap you know to get a call out. So uh you know and and uh but look it's like some people have more risk tolerance less risk tolerance and just like just just wait and see and tell don't rush into something don't let other people rush you into something. So thanks J. Thanks for your time. Great event coming on and great launched and uh hope wish you the best man. Thank you. Stay stay quantum proof. All righty guys, we've got Ilia Polosukin. Ilia is here. He's ready to come on. Um and then we have he's the man of the hour. I mean we just had Yuvie, right, which is kind of the quantum side of the P and Q day. And now we're going to have Ilia, right? One of the I I I call him one of the founding fathers of AI. I think he truly is. welcome to the show. Founding uncles. Founding uncles of AI. He's the He's got two kids. We got this book from uh Ellie about zero knowledge proofs. Alex on our team back there has your plaque uh with the attention is all that you need. That's going to go up in the office in in in New York City. Um great event, big couple weeks for near. Um look man, you're a humble guy, Ilia. Um you're you're very smart, very humble. How do you feel about the last like six to eight weeks about Near? I feel like the whole market has woken up to near. I mean, I've seen near everywhere. Uh people are calling it like Zcash is a bitcoin of this bull market. Near is Ethereum. Like things are getting crazy quick. Humbly kind of like where do you see things now? Where do you see things going? Where are we at? Yeah, I mean you you know near right we've been building sort of like bull and bear through you know past like what eight years. Y uh nine years if you include the AI before that. So uh we have a vision. The world is changing and we need the decentralized technology. We need privacy. We need private AI. We need private money. We need to unite and really kind of connect not just web 3 but also like rest of the markets. And so it's exciting to see more and more people joining. It's obviously like has massive flywheel effects on products. Uh obviously, you know, market price is important because it gives everyone more resources, attracts more attention and so it's exciting to kind of have all this uh action and we're going to continue turning that into more products, more value. Yeah, man. I mean, I think like the thing that has just become such such so apparent to the market and to me is that I mean, we're here at this Quantum Privacy Day with Quantis, right? They just launched. Their token is doing exceptionally well. Big congrats to them. Um, you know, the the near intense uh and the near.com experience, the black box of privacy of trading per swaps, bridging is just immaculate. It's it's so good. Like it is just it is just like Grockbot is my AI harness. Near.com is my is my onchain harness. Right. But extrapolating that, we talked about this last night over some wine in that there is a new world that you guys are getting into where it's like you are becoming the trading venue for the onchain speculative assets of this bull market. Quantis being one and we talking about that other token, Pearl. I'm just curious how you think about Near Intense as this kind of broader chain abstraction vision that you once had. Now it's coming to fruition. Quant is a fantastic example. There's no centralized exchange listings. You can only buy it on safe trade, but it's it's on near intent. It's on near.com. I was swapping into it this morning and last night is easy as hell and there's good liquidity. It happened so fast. Just like talk to us about what that vision is for Near Intense and and Near.com to bootstrap I guess the high quality speculative assets of this next era of this industry. Yeah, I mean so Near Intense kind of the broadest form of vision, right, is like it's a market of markets, right? It's it's effectively this universal aggregator of anyone wanting to trade anything anywhere and being able to do it through kind of like finding the best counter body to do it, right? And I'm not talking about just crypto. I'm not talking about just physical like digital assets. You know, if you want to order a room in a hotel, if you want to, you know, build a base on Mars, right, there's going to be a counterparty that will be willing to do that, right? You know, Elon Musk is like, \"Okay, cool. I'll do it for, you know, $2 trillion, right?\" So that's a that's a broadest form of vision right and we kind of started with like okay chain abstraction is like really first problem that I mean we've been in crypto for a while this is like the most painful thing you can imagine right then now we just added stocks right so now you're aggregating actually not just crypto venues you actually now have NASDAQ and New York stock exchange and we're going to be adding more venues as well so whenever you're sending an intent and you're saying hey I want to you know load up on let's say sovereign right the solvers can be like cool I'll buy it on NASDAQ. I'll tokenize it and I bring it to your wallet. Right? So, you don't actually need to have immediate onchain exchange available. You can actually do this in real time. Similarly, you know, Quantis or other assets, maybe you don't have immediate liquidity now, but as you're creating this demand, right, more and more solvers who may be taking different position, different approach to trading can come in online and start providing this liquidity, right? So you're kind of opening up more and more different options of how these different venues the strategies can be aggregated in one place and then next step is yeah going full on you know natural language intent you know build me uh you know new skyscraper in New York right and it's like okay cool you know subcontracted to some sub agents who need to buy you know the whatever the height credits and whatnot get the land etc right but like you can start seeing kind of this is like truly market of markets that you know aggregates any type of kind of activity trading but also just like generally willing reality into uh into real like willing things into reality. I I think more and more people and agents are starting to realize this vision. I mean, Bellagi was just walking outside the hall. You know, there's some very special people that you've been able to bring together with Near. How have you been able to coordinate so much intellectual capital, so much, you know, physical capital, labor, agentic and human? How have you been able to structure Near in such a way that it's become this shelling point for for so much uh value? I mean, there's been a few things. one is uh especially kind of coming as layer one right I always felt it's been really like kind of misaligned this zero sum game of layer ones right where like everybody was like oh you know you should build on me you should build on me so really removing that kind of mindset and kind of becoming like okay well the more we work together with other layer ones with other blockchains with other apps with other kind of protocols the better we get together right and so kind of really creating this as kind of a Okay, this is a universal liquidity layer. Let's actually get on it everyone. And then on the other side, obviously, you know, partnering with you guys, partnering with more uh kind of folks across the ecosystem who can actually spread the message. I think that's been historically one of the biggest NEO challenges, right? We've been doing a lot of tech. We've been building a lot of uh kind of products, but like how do we get this in front of more people and you guys launched your own effective like lending and cooking? Yeah, I was talking to Stan backstage by the way, side note, uh about getting aer.com. So I think that's a very logical next step or you know I mean you know you have some vaults on there but the because where we're going is like take my hyperlquid position on.com put it into a borrow against it so I don't have to sell etc etc etc. I got stocks on.com put into my a borrow against my stocks lever up. Yeah. So I mean or or just get cash and have to pay taxes but I will I will uh which is levering up. I I will I will connect you to Stanie. I'm sure you guys are already talking, but um Quantum Justin Drake puts out a post and I know we have like one or two more minutes. I think we're just a bit of ton on time here. Justin Drake puts out a post saying that you we need to prepare to go bunker mode. Uh Near.com or Near Protocol. Near responds, Near's got X, Y, and Z that is ready for this. Why is Near ready for quantum? What does that mean? What is bunk is Near a bunker? Like are you building bunkers? It's building a bunker first. Okay, I just want to add one layer of this and we don't have I mean you know we talked about the market a little bit but without the prices in particular everything is read today based on this perceived threat. Yeah, just because of Justin not just because just I think and Vitalic just tweeted it's not helping. Look the one thing is that Near seems like it's diverging from everything else potentially because of this perceived quantum security whereas everything else is this perceived quantum vulnerability. I mean maybe men but how I mean just maybe you can just illustrate like what is the reality of like why this diversion seems to be happening. Yeah. So I mean on a quantum specifically right there's like few things. One is we've designed near with actually quantum in mind in 2018. We're like hey look quantum computers will come at some point cryptography will change. We want to be ready to adjust and update to whatever cryptography we need. And so near accounts have a very kind of specific account model which allows you to rotate keys to add keys to have multiple keys like to and use different cryptography and specifically I literally wrote that code it takes effectively like 200 lines of code to add a new cryptographic curve right and so earlier this year when kind of the like the new algorithm on sol effectively you know recovering private key from a public key uh kind of started dropping we're like okay it's time to start actually shipping postquantum there's now standardized uh implementations as well and so we launched the first effectively the lithium which is the LDSA cryptographic curve on near it went mainet I think uh July and so you can anyone individually right now can effectively update their account without moving any assets without needing to like you know withdraw from walts pay taxes do any of this thing right you can literally just update the keys to be postquantum right now like on Meteor wallet it's literally one button, right? So that is the massive change because you know the alternative is you need to bunker mode, you need to like figure out a new way to derive keys, you need to manage everything like it it requires a lot of extra sophistication to do that. And so that's a step one. We have a whole like multiple steps program to add more and more other uh systems as well as well as other cryptography for people who want to use uh different but MLDDSA right now for for clarity that's the one that's been used across the whole internet. Okay. like the Chrome browser that you use right now, they already updated to it. This is effectly a standard in the real world and Near has this and so Near we use this for cryptography and so you're saying that going to Near and putting your assets on Near is at least as good if not better as migrating your keys and going bunker mode. Uh so you you what you can do with factor is like you can have your near account uh with the postquantum uh cryptography holding it and the new account can then hold ass hold assets on Ethereum, Bitcoin and other chain and you don't need to worry about it but we will we will need to like deal with all of them. Yeah. But if you guys get in trouble aren't I getting in trouble if you know what I mean? Like if my assets are on Ethereum through Near and something happens to Ethereum, it's not like you guys are going to help me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean if if if something happens to Ethereum, but you know, you don't need to worry like if you're holding it through near teams are going to take care of this, right? And so we going to like black dragon mode and as as you know we're building a lot of systems both on like cryptography on smart contracts and on proactive analysis with shield to actually detect when things are happening. Right. So like our point is like look you can hold things through like near.com. You can hold all this assets, you can trade, you can be private as well, which by the way hides your public key. There's nothing to derive even I mean even for non postquantum but for postquantum too. And now then we can go and work with all the chains like we just had a podcast with Justin grilling him on cryptography making and kind of what they're going to use. So we actually make sure that we secure everybody's assets on as well. Yeah. Ilia, thanks for your time, man. Great event. Uh thanks for everything. It's been a pleasure and uh let's keep let's keep growing, man. It's this is just the beginning. So, all right. Thank you guys. Thank you. All right, guys. Just put your assets in your.com and let the gigabrains over there quantum problem for you. It's not the conference. It's uh the quantum is much more important than the conference. Um and these guys are absolutely tackling it and helping out the entire industry. I'm going to step out and have a fantastic segment with Tom. That's going to be an issue. Let's take a quick standby and talk about that one there, Mr. Glen. Be right back. Be right back. So, this is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Last one. We get we get know we get deep we get we get deep know we We get deep know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we get you We get know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. All righty, guys. First time on the show. We got Tom Schmidt from Dragonfly. Uh, one of my favorite hosts of a podcast or I guess guest of the podcast. We should do more crossover episodes like this. You guys on top. Well, I mean, look, I've been getting Pearl Pilled. I got I I met Evan Vaness, uh, the OG Ethereum guy. Yeah. Yeah. I actually I I uh ran into him the first time in like many years at one of these Pearl events, and I was like, \"What are you doing here?\" and he's like, you know, I'm just I'm getting I've been getting pearl pills and so there is some interesting crossover. Yeah. What is Pearl? Cuz I still need to get pearl pills. Yeah. I was with him in in Houston and I like there's this whole like simplicity AI money and I'm like all right. And he's like, \"Dude, Andy, go in.\" I'm like, \"Okay, that's an awful pitch. He should not be pitching it like that.\" I think I think the idea is very simple. Yeah. As you have probably seen, most of the large US-based Bitcoin miners are switching over to doing AI inference, Russo, Cororeweave, etc. Um this obviously is not great for Bitcoin because you have less hash rate. Um and so the question is is there a way to sort of solve these at the same time of you can get you know use this hash rate, use this inference but also use it to secure a network. Yeah. Pearl. Um the idea is you can still do the matrix multiplication that underlies any sort of transformerbased LLM and then in doing so you also have a sort of Bitcoin style proof of work system. You get it for free. It's sort of like a sidecar. So you sort of throw a little bit of uh this like randomness in what you're absurd. Yeah. Well, the reason is have you seen this Arthur Hayes flops thing? Yeah. I um because it sounds a lot like that. I think I think it's a pro fork. No, no, you know, no disrespect to Arthur. I I think flop is a kind of a fork copycat of of Pearl and it has he has this whole payment thing which I don't really think is is like also no disrespect. I think I look at the Pearl team and I look at whoever's running Flop and I'm like you know one is a really world-class researchers some really novel ideas and uh you I love Arthur and I think he's a very good promoter and so that's how proof of uh proof of verifiable work is this kind of breakthrough concept effectively of taking unused GPU power for AI for AI uh inference and leveraging that to uh earn yields. It's like, oh, you're an inference provider for any data center. You're getting X for your dollars. You know, you're putting Y or you're getting X in and you're getting Y out. You know, why not get Y times 1.1x or 1.2x. Yes. It's literally free money. It's So, what's the catch here? Like, yeah. Um, I think one point to clarify on on Pearl, which I think a lot of people maybe misunderstand, they think of it in the same vein people think of render or um Yeah. Yeah. AOS of it's decentralized inference. It's a network that you can ping to go run some workload. A bunch of computers run it and they send you back the the results. That's not what's happening with Pearl. Pearl is the largest Neoclouds in the US. People like Together, people like Fireworks, they own, you know, obviously obviously data centers and they have their own customers who are paying them to run openweight models for them um or their own models. Um they will run these models that uh also run Pearl. Um and then their their main customers are just paying them the same way they pay to run them to run Quen or GLM through 5.3 whatever it might actually be. So it's um you know the normal people who are already paying for AI inference and this thing sort of running in this side car. So very very small amount of overhead. They use usually use quantized models. So you know slightly worse performance than using you know the largest version of some of these open weight models. Um and there's a little bit more compute required maybe 2%. But the upside is if you're an infra provider you get PRL as a result. Um, it's it's a block reward. You can also use it to be for transfer. It's the same way you use Bitcoin. I was telling Ilia that we need to get this on Near Intense and Near.com because I mean, look at what happened to Quantis over the last 24. I mean, the thing's up like ungodly amounts and nobody like everyone like I heard about it and I was like, I got to buy it. And then I was like, I got to go and safe trade. What the hell is safe trade? It's like I'm Is that a centralized exchange? You know, I I know they're also one of the larger uh uh Pearl venues and I believe so. It's It's always a little bit unclear. I think especially like some of the hybrid dexes I'm like what is really hybrid about this just a sex but it's bullish though it's hard to buy it's bullish you think about what are the catalysts I I think certainly like being a liquid cuts both ways but I think of it more who's doing something novel who's who's doing trying to solve really big meaty problems what are the problems you know facing the crypto industry today is a sort of you know security hash rate issue what is one of the big trends people like to bet on um hey AI inference loads going up over time and I I like this because it's already using the sort of proven demand of uh you know these these neoclouds. It's not saying hey switch your workload over to this thing that's going to be worse and more expensive and kind of jankier. Correct. That was the issue with those decentralized inference providers or cloud providers that they'd be like oh use and it's like but it's not as good. It's not as smart and and it's like it's quote unquote decentralized. It's like well we're kind of missing the point here. Yes. Yes. Agreed. Um and then when you look at the actual like revenue it's like no one's actually paying to use this thing versus you know together and fireworks are you know gigantic multi-billion dollar startups. The thing about Pearl that gets me and and I'm going to run um and Rob's got a couple minutes here is um the community is like this ravenous like Evan was like yo you need to buy this and just like come back in 10 years 20 years and I'm like dude like what are you saying right now? So like talk to us about like that kind of mentality of like why the community is so strong. Um it's I think people are have been hungry for new R&D breakthroughs for a very long time. Um all right. Oh, he's he's listening, but he's he's on the move. Dude, you're mobile. No need to apologize. Um, and I think I don't know. I think that people see a lot of copy paste. They see a lot of the same ideas over and over and over again. And very rarely do you see people trying to solve a big problem with a new breakthrough. And I think that's that's one of the interesting things about Pearl. It's also interesting to me, in my experience, it's been um a mix of many different communities. You have this kind of uh core, you know, uh uh uh cryptographer, you know, R&D community. You have a lot of like SF tech people. I went to one of their launch events and it was people from OpenAI and Anthropic and uh you know cognition were all attending this this event and you have people like me who are coming out of crypto coming out coming out of the venture community and so it's kind of this very interesting blend and uh I don't know still very early but um you know I think we like to bet on on things that are trying to do something novel cool Tom thanks so much man uh as you can tell we're uh running and and gutting here and uh let's do more let's do more of these crossovers it's a lot of fun guys, hit uh quick standby and we'll be right back. Cool. Sweet. Thanks for having as we try to parse out what is real and what isn't real. Ellie, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you uh as always. Thanks for being here. And yeah, everyone is very curious. I think right now they're trying to determine uh what is real about quantum, what is not, how does privacy fit into this? do we need to migrate our coins? Are we really at risk right now? Maybe you can just give us a sense of how you've approached the quantum problem up till now and then we'll we'll kind of dig into some of more of the nuts and bolts. Yeah. So, even when I was working on the cryptography that ended up being Zcash, so I was one of the founding scientists and a co-founder of it and I'm very proud of that. I was thinking about or we were thinking about uh what do we do uh with uh quantum and how do we build safer uh cryptographic ZK protocols that give you privacy and also quantum resistance. And the good news is that since 2018 uh we already know how to solve this problem. So another paper that I wrote back then an academic paper um called ZK Starks actually has in the title you know postquantum zero knowledge. So that technology exists and by now it's uh in production used in starknet uh you know for scaling a whole bunch of uh decentralized exchanges and has privacy in it. Now whether we need to migrate I think the short answer is yes. We need to prepare migrating all of our technology to things that are postquantum secure. And in this respect, I want to say that at Starknet, we will prepare things to be a safe haven. And if that means Starknet needs to become an L1 because it cannot rely on the security of other things. That's certainly something that we are actively considering. And what is it about an L1 that differentiates it, right? because Ethereum is is really doing a ton of research into this quantum problem, trying to help, you know, move us into a quantum resistant and secure paradigm. And so, what is it about taking an L2 and turning it into L1 that can make it more quantum resistant than Ethereum is already planning to do? Well, where Ethereum is heading is where Starknet is now. So, Ethereum is talking about moving to ZK Starks, moving to a new VM that is ZK Stark friendly. All of that is following the footsteps of Starknet. It exists today. Now, right now, we are reliant on the security of Ethereum and many parts of it are not quantum safe. So, what it would mean if we had to move and become an L1, it would mean to replace basically that layer with a quantum resistant layer that has only, you know, hashes, maybe proof of work is quantum resistant, allows postquantum signatures, all of that stuff can be built. And why would we need to move that? It's very simple. if Ethereum does not move fast enough and I'm not sure it will. Like that's the basic question. Wow. Okay. And so despite Ethereum's work and going towards a more quantum resistant future, it may not be moving fast enough. You say you you say it is now time to migrate. What is it about the ZK Stark paper that you wrote back in 2018 that makes it quantum resistance? Give us a little bit more of a technical answer so that we can really understand what is going on. So um every time uh you know breaking cryptography is a little bit like solving a maze and you know finding the exit and quantum physics allows you to explore many different paths of the maze at the same time. It's a little bit like this shreddinger's cat where you can be in many different positions and then sort of uh magically you end up only in one universe where it's the exit. So that's what quantum computers do to things like elliptic curves. But there are other kinds of mazes like the kinds that ZK starks are built on called hash functions which don't have this nice structure. And for them quantum computers just cannot help you break the system or find an easy exit. So that is why zk starks are safer uh from a quantum point of view. Just just to make sure Zcash is that system. It is uh hashbased and it is this sort of maze that a quantum computer could not break. I'm not involved in Zcash these days anymore. I think many parts of it are not yet uh that kind of cryptography. I think it still relies too much on the older kind of cryptography which is elliptic curve cryptography. What I was referring to was Starknet and ZK Starks which are uh that technology is postquantum secure. It is. Yeah. And is is that a requirement Ellie now? Like do you feel that that is a requirement for I think it's something that we should really get our act together on on really adopting quickly to postquantum secure things because the bigger threat is not the quantum computer. It's the super intelligence in math of classical computers and like what might happen tomorrow is like some of these systems could just be broken right even before Qday we could reach that with AI. Yes. And this would be far worse because it means that now keys can be just compromised by anyone, not just by folks that have a quantum. And how important is it that we do this at the L1 level versus turning something that's already existing into what we might call quantum resistant or quantum secure? How possible is it to upgrade an existing system versus build something from scratch? Both of them are very hard, but like it's somewhat easier to build something from scratch from scratch. And other things that we're considering building is also sort of safe havens in the following sense like allowing people to save a spot for the eventuality of like a quantum break. So there are ways for you to do on Bitcoin on Ethereum things that would make you a little bit safer if there's a catastrophe and then sort of move on to a safer place if you need. So this isn't a black and white paradigm. There are some gray areas where we can make ourselves a little bit more safe without going entirely quantum secure. Yes, there's we're entering a period of extreme uncertainty and I think it's all about hedging and preparing for the future and preparing for the unknown unknowns. Okay. Um I have a similar question. Um when you I don't know if you had a chance to look at that Justin Drake tweet today or post today. Uh I I know you you know you guys spoke on the Ethereum front there. Um, when you think about the kind of call to action being like, hey, don't have exposed public keys, like do what you can to get your public keys in order that they're not exposed and like kind of sitting ducks. Yeah. Like I don't know if the question is like how urgent or like how real? But I think like the bigger idea is like is that all that it's going to take from the user perspective? No. Like what do I need to know as a user? How do I as a user prepare, you know? And the answer might be bridge to starkware, right? or you know bridge to stark net but how do I kind of prepare from a user perspective uh with my assets across different chains etc. I do think the the the the shortest answer is does involve Starknet just because um we're probably the most crypto agile and most uh you know advanced when it comes to postquantum cryptography. But the problem is that if you're on a blockchain where all the other keys gets get exposed and you know the smart contracts are compromised and everything like that then it doesn't really help if you know you are uh you know you sort of uh how do you say rotated your keys or something that doesn't help. You need to be in a place where everything is uh quantum ready and quant and and crypto agile which means you can move very quickly to adopt the very the most advanced technology that would be the safest and and frankly that's why we built Starknet. So are are there solutions that users can take now uh that would prepare us for super intelligence on classical computers and how does that differ from the kind of path that we might take to prepare against a quantum threat? I think that unfortunately uh it has to be something on the infrastructure layer like you can't I mean you could hedge a little bit or like move to safe grounds. I mentioned starknet but like you know still for users it's mostly like screaming out to uh developers and and uh to adopt safer technologies. So Justin Drake says enter it's time to enter bunker mode and you're saying that's maybe not sufficient. I just tweeted I retweeted his and I said Starknet is that ZK bunker. ZK Starks are the ZK bunker that they are moving towards. I got one more. Do you think Bitcoin is safe? No, obviously not. And do you think Bitcoin's monetary properties of being a store of value asset, something that you want to be able to put in a vault underground, bury it, come back to it in 10 years, and know that it's not going to be, let's call it, fucked with. Uh like gold has that property, right? Do you think Bitcoin's lost that property to a certain extent? Well, um, right now it's that big threat and I think part of the price action reflects that. But the the way what we're going to try and do is again offer safe havens and means for Bitcoiners to reserve a spot for a case where you know things are compromised and we'll try to do that for as many chains as we can on top of Starknet so there's a safe haven. Imagine that sort of uh Bitcoin, you know, the infrastructure goes down for a while until the, you know, everyone finally agrees to do a soft fork that will allow for postquantum security. So, you would want uh some system where you could sort of reserve a spot, be there while things are being fixed and then go back there. So, a little bit like uh you know, nuclear bunker. So, we're building that on Stark. Yeah. Okay. And so with that lens, you you know Robbie had asked this right about like is it better to kind of start fresh or uh you know change or you know adapt Quantis you know is putting on this event. I find it hard to like I'm happy that that that this team has came out. It sounds great on paper. The people here are fantastic but I you know I'm not even nearly as technical as you are let alone even to the level of understanding what is quantum resistant or not. So, I find it hard to like understand like, you know, how legitimate is a new company that's, you know, not even not just them, just like anyone that says they're quantum persistent or quantum ready. I just I'm like, okay, like how do I know? And what I came to find out from speaking with them last night and others is that there's this inevitable impossibility of like you never actually really know. Like you can work and work and work and work and be like the most quantum resistant today, but tomorrow you could not be enough. Is that like the right way to frame these kind of companies that are like building these products for this kind of postquantum world? Is it really just like they they've done by the standards that the NSA sets out that there's governmental standards for this technology? You have those stamps of approval, but even still at that point, you know, it's still kind of like there's always that inevitability or possibility. I think um crypto agility is the most important thing. right? Being, you know, being on an infrastructure and working with teams that, you know, can move very fast, know their shit when it comes to cryptography and math and can adapt quickly. Um, and I I believe Quantis is a very strong team. You know, Near is strong, Zash is strong. Obviously, you know, Starknet I think is the best. And um you know, Bitcoin, I love it a lot, but like uh it's really uh the sort of mindset where of sticking the head in the sand and saying, you know, no soft forks for anything, not even OPCAT. I think that's going to be very very damaging unfortunately. But it's not too late to change course and say there's a problem. You know, Houston, there's a situation and let's start doing software. So that agility aspect is the important part then. Yes. Yeah. Have you looked at Quantis technology? What what do they do well? What do they need to improve on? I I met a few of the teams and I'm very impressed with their sort of vision and so on and I know many of the supporters. I now when I run Starkware as CEO, I just don't have enough time to do uh technical diveins, but I think they're a solid team. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't have been a while. Yeah. Catch us up on Starknet and catch us up on Yeah. Exactly. Because you mentioned how Starknet is one of the it is the ZK bunker. You can go there. You can kind of reserve a spot. It's pretty based. Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are going to see that as a potential escape hack that they can go to kind of wait out the quantum threat whether they're in Bitcoin or something else and then reserve that spot to go back to the original chain once that threat has been resolved. What else is possible? Obviously, that's a huge value proposition in and of itself. But while they're in the ZK bunker, what can they do in there? Oh, so one thing that we're I'm very proud of that we released is uh so so you know I co-founded Zcash. I'm very proud of it, but like Zcash is sort of the bunker style well you know the sort of uh Bitcoin version of privacy. Uh so you can only transfer uh Zcash shielded in it. But what we built on Starknet, it's called Stark 20 is a usable form of privacy that gives you like very good UX and you can do a whole bunch of things. And one product that we just released that I'm very proud of is sort of a VPN for polyarket where basically it's called offmarket. You can access it at offmarket.cx and you can go there and do uh basically polyarket trading but you're shielded and it has a very uh simple UX. you can come onto it from any chain from you know your credit cards and so on. So like this VPN layer uh usable privacy is another thing that is enabled on starknet and I'm very proud of. Yeah. So um one of our uh sponsors of the show and just friends that we kind of came to learn about is this company called Zama. This sounds similar in a sense that Zcash is kind of like the store of value privacy but then there's still this race for this in the same way Ethereum was the programmable money for Bitcoin. There's now this race for programmable privacy on chain. Obviously, Near.com does a great job, right, with their actual uh kind of like I don't know, call it like a harness almost like an AI harness that you have kind of like your onchain harness uh kind of like a confidential black box on chain. But what you're getting at is more of like powering applications in the smart contract space with privacy. And I think that's a very unexplored and a massive tam for the world cuz it's like if smart contracts and onchain finance is going to eat a lot of finance and eat a lot of like you know commerce and things then that privacy element is going to be everywhere as well. There's a huge pie there, right? So, we have that. We have like uh you know, DeFi that is composable. We have AMMs, uh swaps, things like that that you can do in a shielded manner without like with very good UX. As I said, we have this VPN layer for Poly Market. We're probably going to extend it. The VPN layer, that's a good marketing term as well. Exactly. So, we want to make it exactly as you said like uh uh the version of programmable private money that also happens to be postquantum secure and a safe haven for uh you know, the crypto. question for you on this. So um you know I look at Zama I look at RCM starkware starket um near intense even to a certain extent and I and I see competition but I also see a lot of collaborative opportunity. So how do you think about integrating kind of these worlds together like you know obviously there's only so many apps apps that are doing well there's only so you know so much right now on chain but you know 10 years from now it's going to grow a ton. How do you plan to kind of like like how does Stark Net and Starkware fit in with Near, with Zcash, Zama, like how does there like a because the end goal is privacy on chain, right? That's what we're trying to build here. Not it's not just one team that's going to tackle it. How do you kind of think about that? So, we we have very good connections obviously to to Zcash, you know, I know Zuko from back in the day when you co-ounded it. Um, very friendly also with the Near team. So, Near Intense already um bridges over to uh Starknet. Here's like a cool thing like one of the only places where you could actually get exposure to uh um predictions on Zcash price is a product that appears only on Stark. It's called Super Vega. You can Google it and like uh sometimes I tweet about my own predictions on Zcash. I've seen them. I've seen $3,500. I went for 5K. You know, I went wild. But my first prediction when it was like around I don't know 500 or 800. I predicted 1,200 by the end of month and I you know that landed. Um so like super Vega is another example of something that exists only on starket allows you basically options trading for retail but uh on things like Zcash lighter, Bitcoin, Ethereum, STRK obviously the the STRK token you can do all of that and um this is the Zcash part for instance is by basically collaboration with near intense. So you have like and another fun thing is you can actually shield Zcash on Starknet under the STRK usable privacy uh platform and then you can swap it privately using AMMs and stuff like that. We have a saying on the show that's uh a dollar onchain tends to stay onchain and I think about privacy a very similar way. A dollar that's confidential or shielded tends to stay shielded. Yeah. You don't like once you go into near.com in the confidential intents and things, you you're not going back on chain and being like, let let me go out and not be private. It's it's a b it's a it's a luxury, right? Well, it's a luxury currently. It'll be the default soon. We'll see. Yeah. Ellie, thanks so much, man. Really really appreciate it as always. Pleasure to have you on. Yes. It's been too long, so I have to get you on again soon. Thank you. Thanks, Ellie. All righty. Um, guys, I mean, I'm bullish. Yeah, bullish start. I mean, look at that. more secure than many of the other alternatives. I'm glad that there is competitive forces, but I look, I don't think these are as I don't think these are as competitive as we might think. I think of it, look, we're in Singapore. There's a massive like capitalist like capital here and it we don't think of like Singapore and Manhattan as competitive with one another. Yeah. I think of these as building out the confidential or shielded economy on chain. Yeah. and the dollar that's private, you know, it was very much like an original thesis that we had around Ethereum where like if you had a dollar that went into a base, right, that would ultimately benefit like a dollar that would go into another L2 like a Starknet, right? And it was very, you know, uh, positive sum. And I think that private, it's not always like that, but I think the privacy economy is like that right now where if you get a net new dollar into one of these confidential applications, it is actually a net new user of liquidity, net new unit of liquidity that could end up flowing potentially into one of these other privacy. Guys, on that note, we're doing a $2,49 giveaway. Hopefully Steph in the audience gets it. Uh if you want to just zoom in on the camera here a bit if possible. Uh we're doing a giveaway here. Uh $2,49. I I've I've heard there's been some weird QR code shenanigans in token. So, uh we're you just got to scan the QR code, guys. Uh it takes you to our landing page. Type in your email. Follow us on X. Do whatever you can. Alex is going to walk around the venue, hand these out to people. Um and we're going to make sure. And I think we've got a signed copy. You're the Let's get Ellie on the camera here. Ellie, what do we have here? Go ahead. Sit down and what do we have? Look, tell uh tell that camera. Tell us what we got. Uh my book uh tells my story of Zcash. zero knowledge, how I moved from being a mathematician to uh founding well two companies. Um and I just gave a signed copy to both uh Andy and Robbie. So thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thanks Ellie. We'll see you next time. This is an airplane reading October 2026. Dear Robbie, keep hitting it out of the park. Respect Ellie. Keep hitting it out of the park. Respect. My portfolio is out of the park, ladies and gentlemen. Much respect to Ellie Benson. What is Near trading at right now? Near is flying on this news of new quantum threats. 542 near protocol cracks the top 20. My goat Wake would like to be allowed on the stream. Speak the good gospel of Nearcat. Yeah, Nearcat. He's going to be on the stream. He's going to be on the stream at 3 p.m. Nearcat. Wake is coming on the pod. Nearcat is coming on the pod. Ladies and gentlemen, own at least key 10 QTC. Thank me later, buddy. I own a lot more than that. A lot more than that, Rob. Yeah, upwards of 150 right now. You guys heard from Joe. QTC is ready to fly. Oh my goodness. No financial advice. You guys might be hearing about QTC for a long time, but obviously you've got very very technical people that are now coming out of the woodwork and starting to endorse QTC and Quantis. And I think I mean whether it was coordinated this uh this this post from Justin Drake and the Quantis launch, whether that was coordinated or not, it does show you that Quantum is real and people are starting to take it very very seriously. So, I I think this launch couldn't have been better timed and it was an extremely extremely pertinent launch. What What do we have here? What What's going on behind us? We're cooking. We're cooking. We're cooking hard. We're cooking with gas. Uh check your Telegram. Uh my lovely friend. Um we need our next guest in the Anakin group chat. Uh guys, I mean, look, the market's down a little bit. Um but we're up. I mean, we're feeling good. Uh we're here at the Quantis Day with Near. I mean, Near's one of the leaders of this entire week, Rob. I mean, look, we called it I think in a way like I was like I put out a tweet and I was like, \"Hey, like I think Near, Quantis, and Zcash are going to be some of the biggest winners of this week.\" And frankly, here we are. Yeah. I mean, look, the market is validating some of the things that we've been talking about for a long time. Uh, I think the perceived threat of quantum and the perceived threat of AI are particularly pertinent right now. people are taking them so much more seriously than they had been even over the last recent months. And I think look whether you think this is months, years or decades away, the fact is that it is a perceived threat and and the market is now in a momentum based paradigm. And I think perceived narratives, perceived threats can have as much impact as very real threats to overcome the sense of apathy that we saw for for many months. And so perceived notions are now causing massive impacts on the market. I agree, man. And I mean, look, we have a classic conference pullback. We're not, you know, this is nothing new. We're not worried about it. I like the dynamic. You got like a navy blue suit, but it's black. I got like a fully black. You got a fully black. I got a navy blue. Well, don't worry. You got a whole navy blue. Wait, you have a navy? This is navy. This is the same suit I've been wearing. I thought you I thought this was black. You got your glasses now, dude. I got you another I got you another navy blue suit. Nothing that's not nothing to mad about. Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. Is it arriving today? Tomorrow morning 6:15 a.m. at the airport along with our t-shirts that we're going to be giving away. Be more bullish t-shirts. Be more bullish t-shirts. We're going to be giving away. All right, guys. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back from the near quantum and privacy day. That boy Joe's fired up. See you guys in a second. QTC 158. No way. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. last. Last last Heat. Heat. We get we get know we get we get we get know we get know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get You know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we get deep know we get We get deeper. Quick reflections. Who are you and why? And just quick reflections on the launch. And I think where did you come from? I think it's important that people understand like the story as far as what brought you here because people are very very excited. They're very enthralled around the team and the friends and the network that Quantis is surrounded by. So, help us understand how you arrived to launch Quantis. Well, I mean, so I uh you know, I was a math nerd in school, you know, computer science, AI, quantum computing. I was just so like fascinated with any high-tech stuff. And um you know, I've been for a lot of my career in the sort of more hacker underground. uh you know I was like a sec cyber security consultant for high netw worth individuals and things like that. So so I don't you know I I'm I don't love getting lots of attention but for this project I had to do it. So so here we are. Um and uh but you know I I got into Bitcoin early on. You know, there's a whole story of how I heard about it that I probably shouldn't tell online, but um but uh you know, I was too scared to do anything uh with the with the you know, the dark markets, but I I was fascinated by the technology. And you know, it was the first international wire transfer I ever sent was to to Mount Gaus, you know, and I was like I was a poor grad student. I was like, am I going to lose all my money? And my dad's like, you're definitely going to lose all your money. So, fortunately, this one time he was wrong. But, um but the uh you know, so so I' I've been early to a lot of things. sometimes too early. But um but really, you know, th this was I was just placed in a position where I got I basically heard about the quantum thing before other people did. And uh and you know, I I I'm always ranting to my friends about uh you know, how a blockchain should be built. And you know, one of our investor friends was one day he was just like, you know what, you should like just shut up. Just like go build it yourself if you know so much. And I was just like, you know, it stung a little bit. But uh but yeah, so here we are. I I think there's a lot of people that are now hearing about quantum. You heard it about it very very early but and and started to build this in preparation for it. I mean and but now there's a lot of people that are taking it a lot more seriously seriously thinking about migrating coins to what people consider more quantum resistant technology. But you actually went out and you built that. So help us understand what's real. Do people need to migrate? And why is Quantis the solution? Yeah, just help us understand. Yeah, exactly. What's real about Quantis? Well, okay. So, so, uh, you know, a lot of people hear, you know, oh, quantum computing and, you know, maybe they're like, oh, sci-fi, oh, it's a computer can do anything instantly, and that's not really true. Uh, there's there's, you know, a wide variety of problems where a quantum computer gets a moderate speed up. You know, there's quantum algorithms that only run on a quantum computer. Uh, but there's a very narrow range of problems where you get an extreme speed up and, uh, you know, it's like a laser cutting through butter. And uh unfortunately that happens to include the math problems that we use to secure most public key cryptography today. So it's elliptic curves and RSA. So so those things are going to have to go. Now on exactly what timeline, we don't know. And of course that that depends a lot on uh you know what your risk tolerance is and and and what's uh how how critical those systems are. So, uh, so if you're, you know, if you got a trillion dollar asset secured by elliptic curves, you might want to be taking it seriously because, uh, because, you know, with Bitcoin, not only, uh, do you have to implement the technology, which, you know, Bitcoin is notoriously slow at doing that, but you also have to migrate people to the new tech technology. You have to get people to stop using the old thing and start using the new thing. And it's not something where, you know, an engineer can just push a button and force everyone to do it. And uh and so you know to contrast this like signal, private messenger, iMessage, uh Cloudflare, they already went postquantum and and just nobody noticed unless you're like in this, you know. So I got I got one more question, man. Well, I'm just curious about the QTC token. I think a lot of people are going to see this and they're going to things ripping today. Yeah. They're going to feel they're going to feel they're going to feel caught off sides, right? So, so as you describe the Quantis technology, I think people are going to start to take that seriously. But why is it also important that they take the QTC token seriously? Well, look, I mean, we we like I said, I'm a I'm a Bitcoiner. I uh I I think I've got one-shotted by this idea of fix the money, fix the world. And so, we tried to take all the good ideas that Bitcoin had and just fix the few small things that that, you know, it just wasn't ready for. Okay. And so uh you know the 21 million coins uh the the focused on just the money use case we're not a smart contract platform and and but what about the launch UV sorry intro like the fair launch here like the process there intents your investors like how much overhang is there you know just if you can share just very quickly about like how you guys are like what this you know kind of vesting is just give us like the transparent answer as to like why if I buy this I'm not going to get fucked who's going to dump on me how is it being minded Who owns the supply? Like what's going on? That's what I'm getting asked on Telegram right now. No, these are important question. Super important question. So So we decided to not do a dev tax because it's harder for people to sort of compute how much that's going to how much overhang that is. The uh so we did a premine essentially a premint of uh 27% and that's locked up for a year and then uh and then drips out linearly over 3 years. So it's a sort of standard Silicon Valley structure in that sense. And uh but the the you know it's uh the unlocks are onchain. You can view everything happening and uh and and there was a a small portion that 1% that we we we put into a liquidity bucket so that we could provide liquidity on near intense at the beginning to to avoid a kind of you sometimes in a low liquidity environment like prices can do some really silly things and then people get hurt. So we wanted to have it more you know like appropriately sized. Now obviously it's uh you know still it's early days so please guys be you know be smart don't don't uh you know like think about the FTV as well as the market cap you know to get a call out. So uh you know and and uh but look it's like some people have more risk tolerance less risk tolerances and just like just just wait and see and tell don't rush into something don't let other people rush you into something. So thanks thanks for your time great event thanks for coming on and uh great launched and uh hope wish you the best man. Thank you. Stay stay quantum proof. All righty guys, we've got Ilia Polosukin. Ilia is here. He's ready to come on. Um, and then we have he's the man of the hour. I mean, we just had Juvie, right, which is kind of the quantum side of the PNQ day, and now we're gonna have Ilia, right? One of the I I I call him one of the founding fathers of AI. I think he truly is. IA, welcome to the show. Uh, founding uncles. Founding uncles of AI. He's the He's He's got two kids. We got this book from uh Ellie about zero knowledge proofs. Alex on our team back there has your plaque uh with the attention is all that you need. that's going to go up in the office in in New York City. Um, great event. Big couple weeks for Near. Um, look, man, you're a humble guy, Ilia. Um, you're you're very smart, very humble. How do you feel about the last like 6 to 8 weeks about Near? I feel like the whole market has woken up to Near. I mean, I've seen Near everywhere. Uh, people are calling it like Zcash is a Bitcoin of this bull market. Near is Ethereum. Like, things are getting crazy quick. Humbly kind of like where do you see things now? Where do you see things going? Where are we at? Yeah, I mean you you know near right we've been building sort of like bull and bear through you know past like what eight years y uh 9 years if you include the AI before that so uh we have a vision the world is changing and we need the decentralized technology we need privacy we need private AI we need private money we need to unite and really kind of connect not just web 3 but also like rest of the markets and so it's exciting to see more and more people joining. It's obviously like has massive flywheel effects on products. Uh obviously, you know, market price is important because it gives everyone more resources, attracts more attention and so it's exciting to kind of have all this uh action and we're going to continue turning that into more products, more value. Yeah, man. I mean, I think like the thing that has just become such such so apparent to the market and to me is that I mean, we're here at this Quantum Privacy Day with Quantis, right? they just launched their tokens doing exceptionally well. Big congrats to them. Um, you know, the the near intense uh and the near.com experience, the black box of privacy of trading per swaps, bridging is just immaculate. It's it's so good. Like it is just it is just like Grockbot is my AI harness. Near.com is my is my onchain harness, right? But extrapolating that, we talked about this last night over some wine in that there is a new world that you guys are getting into where it's like you are becoming the trading venue for the onchain speculative assets of this bull market. Quantis being one and we were talking about that other token, Pearl. I'm just curious how you think about Near Intense as this kind of broader chain abstraction vision that you once had. Now it's coming to fruition. Quant is a fantastic example. There's no centralized exchange listings. You can only buy it on safe trade, but it's it's on near intent. It's on near.com. I was swapping into it this morning and last night is easy as hell and there's good liquidity. It happened so fast. Just like talk to us about what that vision is for Near Intense and and Near.com to bootstrap I guess the high quality speculative assets of this next era of this industry. Yeah, I mean so Near Intense kind of the broadest form of vision, right, is like it's a market of markets, right? It's it's effectively this universal aggregator of anyone wanting to trade anything anywhere and being able to do it through kind of like finding the best counter body to do it, right? And I'm not talking about just crypto. I'm not talking about just physical like digital assets. You know, if you want to order a room in a hotel, if you want to, you know, build a base on Mars, right, there's going to be a counterparty that will be willing to do that, right? You know, Elon Musk is like, \"Okay, cool. I'll do it for, you know, $2 trillion, right?\" So that's a that's a broadest form of vision, right? And we kind of started with like okay chain abstraction is like really first problem that I mean we've been in crypto for a while. This is like the most painful thing you can imagine, right? Then now we just added stocks, right? So now you're aggregating actually not just crypto venues, you actually now have NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange and we're going to be adding more venues as well. So whenever you're sending an intent and you're saying, \"Hey, I want to, you know, load up on let's say sovereign, right?\" the solvers can be like cool I'll buy it on NASDAQ I'll tokenize it and I bring it to your wallet right so you don't actually need to have immediate onchain exchange available you can actually do this in real time similarly you know quantus or other assets maybe you don't have immediate liquidity now but as you're creating this demand right more and more solvers who may be taking different position different approach to trading can come in online and start providing this liquidity right so you're kind of opening up more and more different options of how this different venues the strategies can be aggregated in one place and then next step is yeah going full on you know natural language intent you know build me uh you know new skyscraper in New York right and it's like okay cool you know sub subcontracted to some sub agents who need to buy you know the whatever the height credits and whatnot get the land etc right but like you can start seeing kind of this is like truly market of markets that you know aggregates any type of kind of activity trading, but also just like generally willing reality into uh into real like willing things into reality. I I think more and more people and agents are starting to realize this vision. I mean, Bellagi was just walking outside the hall. You know, there's some very special people that you've been able to bring together with Near how have you been able to coordinate so much intellectual capital, so much, you know, physical capital, labor, agentic and human. How have you been able to structure near in such a way that it's become this shelling point for for so much uh value? I mean there's been few things. One is uh especially kind of coming as layer 1, right? I always felt it's been really like kind of misaligned this zero sum game of layer ones, right? Where like everybody was like, oh, you know, you should build on me, you should build on me. So really removing that kind of mindset and kind of becoming like, okay, well the more We're back. Hope you guys enjoyed the segment with Ilia. We also had Ellie Benasan. We had Joe from Quantis. We had UV from Quantis. I mean, so we're we're uh certainly running the gauntlet here at Privacy and Quantum Day. Just got off a panel with Hunter Horesley and Christa Lynch from Bitwise and Gayscale thinking about the investment thesis in quantum. You know, those guys are more on the investor side. We've got Alex Prudin uh here that we're going to talk to more on the tech itself. Uh, I mean, Alex, you're you're the man when it comes to this quantum stuff. Uh, you were at Alio. Uh, you left there. Now you're at Project 11. And, you know, you're kind of taking this quantum uh, perspective and experience that you've had productizing it and and making that available for chains that want to enable quantum resistance. And it was very similar to the panel that I just had with Hunter and Christa thinking about you know how investable quantum resistant or not quantum resistant chains are. So I just want to pose actually the same question to you before we really dig into the tech. Are nonquantum resistant chains investable? I I think decreasingly so. I mean the reality is like kind of the inverse of this statement is that you know we talk about cryptography and postquantum cryptography but in a few years all cryptography will be postquantum cryptography because otherwise it would be insecure. So, um, look, I think the window is closing fast and this is the opportunity, by the way, that folks like Quantis are capitalizing on, right? Because, you know, for and I', you know, I think last time I was on your show was 6 months ago, paper day, Google posted their big paper like since then, everyone has caught up that this has kind of been a threat, but there's still ecosystems that are lagging and don't really even have a plan. And this is where Quantis, you know, and and and Near and Zcash and a lot of these folks that are putting forward plans, that's where they're stepping into the gap and they see an opportunity in the market, quite honestly. And I think it's pretty smart of them to take advantage of it. Absolutely. And on on a day like today, NER is green, Quantis is green, everything else is red. So, I think the market is taking this seriously. Um the the thing that and we'll get into Quantis' tech and what makes a chain quantum resistant and these kinds of things and what what you advise chains to do. What I'm curious about is your reaction to this post by Justin Drake. It's closing in on 5 million impressions. So, it feels like it sort of escaped our cryptonative bubble and is now entering the mainstream, whether that be mainstream AI or just, you know, kind of tech enjoyers. They're starting to really think about, you know, what security looks like and whether we need to enter bunker mode and rotate some of these keys. How seriously should we be thinking about the quantum threat? I I take it, you're going to say, very seriously, but is it time to do something about it? like actually migrate tokens and keys or is it time to just start thinking about doing something? I mean it it's so I guess it depends on so it's time to start doing something it sort of depends on like what are we doing right and who is doing the thing but I think Justin Drake you know someone we work with very closely at project 11 so not only do we adi do we advisory stuff but you know strong points our digital asset custody product that we announced two days ago um we want to support postquantum chains right so Quantis is on there Zcash is on there and you know we'll be supporting Ethereum soon too so look I think every chain has to have a plan they just they have to I mean I I think this point like you just need an answer to the question what what happens if a quantum computer comes because you look at you know the progress that the quantum space has made and by the way I think the most telling example of how there's being progress is that institutions like Google and the big quantum computing companies are self censoring they're not publishing results actually Google had a funny quote they just announced their new AI model and they were like we sped up a certain quantum algorithm by 40% using our new AI model they didn't even say which one but it was obvious viously shores algorithm is the only one that is really even practical to be you know apply AI applied to so it's like you're getting the censorship and you know from our internal sources at some of these companies we hear this too they're like the government is not letting us post stuff and so this is the issue and I think this is sort of what Justin is getting at right there's a couple unknown unknowns here one is when is quantum coming yeah that's kind of I mean look it's coming for sure we don't know exactly when but it could be any you know when when it happens we may not know the day of it may only be after a hack or after some satoshi coins move the other unknown unknown known as AI, right? And this was I think the main like a big part of Justin's post came on the heels of OpenAI is like we just solved 240 math, you know, hard math problems. By the way, what was conspicuously absent on that list? Any math problem relating to cryptography. So where are all those results? Well, you can just kind of put two and two together. Either they were told not to look at those or they were told not to publish them. So we're left to wonder, okay, well, what what is actually the what is the implication of AI on advanced cryptography, right? And so I think both for both reasons it is time for the pace the space to prepare and I think there needs to be a completely new paradigm for how we approach security and cryptography and how it's integrated into blockchains. So one response from the industry to that point has been let's pace the frontier. Let's slow down the the the AI models that we're releasing to the public so that we're not breaking things as quickly. I have a feeling that is not an acceptable answer to you. So when you think about, you know, how we are approaching the quantum problem and how we're approaching even the classical computers that are now getting super intelligence, how should we be thinking about this? Look, I think I I mean my my answer to that prompt of like, oh, we'll just slow everything down. We'll control it, you know, and control the pace. I just don't think is satisfying as a sec from a security standpoint because like that presumes that the United States government first off has awareness of where the frontier is across all of these places and and there's nowhere else where the frontier is getting pushed forward. But I think it's like it's a very questionable assumption that the US is more than 6 to 12 months ahead on both quantum and AI. And by the way, we've seen this in AI multiple times. Everyone's like, \"Oh, new open AI model dropped.\" And then what happens three months later? Oh, Quen shows up and it's got the same benchmark. So, it's like, you know, sure, we could start pacing ourselves, but then are we just going to be behind? And then, of course, like, does China care about cryptography or about breaking it? Are they going to restrict? I don't know. And so, again, as a user, as a holder, as an institution about these digital assets, like we need to be concerned about our security at the end of the day. We can't count on government regulation to solve this problem. I think from a security point of view. The other thing is the reality like what is the government doing? The government is telling people to migrate to postquantum cryptography. That's why by the way like Microsoft, Google, Cloudflare have all announced they're going to be postquantum ready by 2029. So in 3 years like that's around actually I think I think Ethereum's end of 2029 is their road map. But there are very few crypto projects that even have a road map with a tangible date. And so this is going back to you prompted a question earlier. Hey when do we start? The answer is now because it's going to take longer than we expect. Look, go back to the, you know, in ancient history when ETH one transitioned to ETH2. I remember in the early days of that, the Tal was like, \"Oh, it'll be a year.\" And then what, three years later or four, it finally activated. This is going to take longer. We don't want to rush it. That' be the worst thing to do. And and I and I think we just have to take our matters into our own hands in terms of security. Yeah. And and so, you know, if teams are unsure of what to do, right, you're one of the first people that they call. They're like, \"Hey, Alex, you think a lot about this? You go on podcasts. you talk about this a lot. What should we do? So when a team calls you up and they say, \"Hey, Alex, like we need to be quantum ready.\" What do you tell them? Yeah. Look, I think it depends on the context, right? Because the unfortunate reality of postquantum cryptography is that there's not like like like everyone is hoping that like the the existing solution that we use which is fast, it's small, it's got a bunch of nice features like threshold signatures and ZK and you can do a lot with the elliptic curve signatures we use. Everyone is hoping that out of the ether that will just materialize a postquantum equivalent and this can all be Y2K and you can just flip a switch. But that's not what it looks like right now. The reality is there's a lot of hard trade-offs. And I think Vitalik responded actually to Justin's tra uh uh uh Justin's tweet and was saying like, \"Hey, look, cryptography is not dead, but we probably need to go to only hashbased cryptography because hashes are the safest thing.\" That's great, but the trade-off there is that like look, hashes are big. Like hashbased signatures are big and they're slow. So if you're Salana that's a you know you might be taking a TPS throughput for example or SUI or any of these high throughput blockchains by the way also the custody solutions you know which is something that we know a fair amount about like they secure they're all based on the security of hardware like hardware security modules and MPC solutions that are entirely built around elliptic curve cryptography. So as a chain you can swap out to some new scheme either like one of the standard ones or one you invent but the issue is still your users's assets are still going to be insecure. I think a great example of this is near who I want to applaud is doing a great job of coming up with a roadmap as a comp as a protocol right and they have a road map and they have account abstraction so they can implement postquantum signatures but people are still haven't moved their funds yet right and institutions haven't moved yet and because you know even though there's consumer wallets there's not institutional options for people to actually secure their funds so this is a multi-step process so the biggest thing I say is start now the second thing I say is like consider the context there's a couple different cryptography solutions you should do but more than anything you should have an option and so start immediately on something. Yeah. Abs. Absolutely. And so one of the teams that called you up was Quantis, right? And so they're kind of the queue in the privacy and quantum day. Um again they've got a hell of a team and they've been able to build a great network around this idea. A lot of people are coming out and endorsing them and supporting them. And so I think the you know social and intellectual capital is there but you've taken a look at the tech what is underneath the hood how quantum secure is it? Yeah, it's quantum secure this. So the biggest the most important biggest thing is the signatures, right? So signatures are how we authorize transactions on chain. So any any like you know Ethereum transaction or Bitcoin transaction is a is a is a is a signature ultimately. Okay. So Quantis implements MLDDSA which is one of the NIST standardized postquantum signature schemes and yeah so so they so they implement that on chain. That's the authorization mechanism for payment and that right there is postquantum. That's is that's basically like the US government's gold star recommendation for postquantum algorithms, right? And so they've implemented that you know and I think they're starting out you know with focusing on just basically store value use case but ultimately expanding in the smart contracts look when the tech as the tech evolves I'm sure there'll be more things to evaluate but as a starting point again like step one make sure the asset is postquantum secure boom and I think quantis meets that bar and again as you pointed out the team is solid and I think you know quite like I said they're taking advantage of this gap in the market where existing incumbents are sitting on their hunches and being like oh we've already won so we don't have to like upgrade our tech ever which is a dangerous assumption to make and you know one of the things that I think Quantis has working for it is hindsight like they can now build on the shoulders of giants and you know it uh utilize all of the intellectual like development that has taken place all of that software all of that they can use that and then launch fresh with a new solution and leapfrog a lot of the technical solutions that are out there how different right so I guess there's a couple questions here I mean Quantis did this at the L1 level a lot other L1s are, you know, potentially looking at upgrading, but then you also have like rappers and like layers on top that can potentially add these solutions. It, you know, ver if it if you go and you look at launching a new L1, upgrading an existing L1 or layering on quantum solutions out of those three, maybe just rank them like from most to least secure. Oh, yeah. I mean, starting fresh is the most secure. If you're just security, if you're if like what is okay like how do you get the most percent of your assets to be secure? It's obviously best to start fresh with a new L1 because if you're starting fresh with a new algorithm and it's 100% of your assets are postquantum secure right now. So you know anytime you're layering or anytime you're upgrading you have this problem of migrating right another example of this speaking of quantum and privacy is Zcash, right? Zcash has a shielded pool. Actually in reality it has four shielded pools. There's been four versions of the shielded pool and every single time they upgrade there's some group of people that didn't get the memo and are like left behind in the old one basically right and so as a result like you know even orchard orchard there was a there was the last shielded pool that upgraded Ironwood there was a vulnerability orchard they're like hey move your funds to be lost and there are still people that basically don't you know that don't how to move so look I think like upgrading is a harder path ultimately though I think the question that quantis faces is like can they get distribution after another. Yeah, let's extend. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Last one. Last one. So, as we think about the potential solutions that are out there and what different teams have to choose from, there's there's kind of three potential solutions that I think about. Um, some are possible for all teams, others not so much. you've got like starting fresh, choosing a new L1, and then you've got, you know, layering solutions on top or upgrading the, you know, L1 itself. Maybe you can just rank like what is most secure, what's least secure, and and you know, where's the mess in the middle? Yeah, there's a lot of dimensions, but I'll just take it from a simple angle like one is like how do we like the, you know, def one definition of security be how can we make sure the most assets are secure on this blockchain, right? So, starting fresh with a postponsecure blockchain is definitely the best in that in that sense, right? because everything is just like by definition is going to be secure from day one you know I I think though like layering on and upgrading are the only options that you have if you're an existing chain right and um you know but ultimately there's this question of how do you incentivize incentivize your users to migrate look I think every chain is different so it's impossible to pro provide a broad prescription but I think in places where you can layer on it it's it's a very good solution let me give an example both near and ethereum I think salana as well a lot of smart contract blockchains have this concept of account abstraction which I think is really clever and is going to come in handy in exactly this moment where the authorization logic sits in a smart contract and isn't tied to the blockchain. So this is kind of to your point around a layering solution where like wallets and custody solutions can add support for various postquantum algorithms without needing to wait for the protocol teams to upgrade. And I think this is a misconception a lot of folks in the industry have where it's like, oh, we all have to wait for like the blockchain to upgrade. And that's not true in every case, right? But ultimately, I think the question for any postquantum native L1 like Quantis, you know, they've obviously got to go and get distribution faster than these chains can upgrade, right? Ultimately though, like anyone who doesn't upgrade is doomed to not, you know, persist into the future at the end of the day. Um, you mentioned Zcash. Uh, we've looked at this. We've had Mert on the show. We've had several people come on and kind of talk us through the way that Zcash is quantum resistant. Maybe it's not quantum secure, but it's got some components there. I I I think I remember hearing that, you know, not until we upgrade to this Tachon upgrade do we really get a lot of quantum benefits. Maybe you can just help illustrate like where is Zcash right now and where is it going? I think I think last time we were on the show, you asked me about Zcash. I got a lot of feedback from folks in Zcash about how the the quantum question. And I've learned a lot since then. So hopefully this is satisfying to them. Um look, so first off, I think Zcash has one really great thing going for it in terms of quantum and that's privacy. And why is it a good thing? You you would think, hey, why are these two things related? Well, you know, when everyone talks about quantum, the first thing they say, what's going to happen to Satoshi's coins? Why do they say that? Because I can see Satoshi's coins. I know where they are. I can point to the ledger. Where are they? I know it's Satoshi. These are these are the coins that a quantum computer will get. The nice thing about having a privacy preserving blockchain like Zcash is I you can't point to it on a ledger, right? So in some sense the first layer of defense is privacy which is great. In addition to that you know the the so Zcash you know uh had the orchard pool which is a/ shield pool. They just upgraded to Ironwood. Ironwood brings a bunch of privacy benefits but in addition they have basically a mechanism to have a postquantum recovery. Right? So they've already built in an escape hatch in the event a quantum computer shows up and people need to move and they need to move in a way that isn't going to be compromised by the quantum computer. Right? So those two things are true right now. Privacy exists on Zcash obviously, but also the Ironwood pool has this escape hatch. And so that's honestly I would say 95% more than most blockchains have. Um you know look to as you point out it's not perfect though at the end of the day the proof system underneath Ironwood is still vulnerable to a quantum attack or inflating the supply etc. Um you know but Tachon as you pointed out and there's many teams in the Zcash ecosystem working on this like they're they're leaning forward and ultimately hoping to ship this postquin version. And I I don't know what the latest is, but I know they're working very hard on prioritizing that, which again, I I I really applaud. I think they're showing what being proactive looks like. And I think the other great thing about Zcash is it's not like it's a terribly centralized community. There's a bunch of teams, some of which coordinate, some of which don't. And I think this this is a good example of what Bitcoin, I think, should look to. And I know any Bitcoiner watching this will probably hate that I'm referencing a not Bitcoin coin as an inspiration for Bitcoin, but you know ultimately like there's it's not we don't need to have a you know it doesn't need to always be some centralized effort like the community can step up and proactively do this and I think it's an example for other chance to follow. Yeah, absolutely. Alex, man, thank you so much. Always a pleasure having you especially on days like today when we have, you know, a renowned interest in the quantum conversation. Uh we're going to hit a quick standby. We'll be right back with our next guest. Little bit of a different conversation. We're gonna be talking about Nearcat. So guys, don't go anywhere. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Last one. Last one. Heat. Heat. We get we get we get we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. We get We get deep. We get deep. We get We get We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get yo yo yo what's going on guys this is it with the rollup we're going to be patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have most are people trading What are people investing in? How much do people actually budget? We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets. We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212. We get deep. We get deep. We know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get we get deep. We get deep. We get we get we get deep, you know. We get We get We get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. The last one last We get deep. We get we get deep. Get deep know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we get We get deep. You know, we get we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. ready as I'll ever be. We're back. We're live. And we are here with Wake, the uh founder, creator, chief architect, boss, the the excuse me, mob boss. Mob boss of Nearcat of Nearcat. Mhm. So, wake, you know, people claim that we're in this institutional era of crypto. People say we need to start taking ourselves more seriously. Couldn't agree less. Tell me, tell me more. Why is it important to keep having fun, keep up with the vibes, keep up with the memes, and ultimately create new cat? It's the most important thing we can do as an industry is have fun. Um, if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right. Correct. That's the only way to onboard young people, people my age. Um, I don't think young people don't care about the tech. They don't care about the institutions and they don't want to put on a suit. They want to have fun. They want to be online and they want to hang out with their friends and talk about talk about fun things and share memes. I grew up on memes. I love it. I fucking love it. And so what what So you grew up on memes? So what were you doing before finding Nearcat? before finding Nearcat. Um, well, I've been trading memes for the past four or five years now. So, you were born in the trenches? I was born in the trenches. It's what I do. It's what I love. Did you have some big wins? I did have some big wins. Did you have some big losses? Oh, some huge losses. What What was your biggest win? Okay. My biggest win was an old coin. It was called ticker goo. And it was a silly goose with little red boots. How much money did you did you make on goo? um like 350K fucking between that and like another coin called Pigeon that launched around the same time that was a derivative of it. This guy is freshly doxed as of today and he just told us that he made 350 bands and the fucking stream went down. Are you fucking kidding me? What? This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Heat. Last one. Last one. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. We know. We get deep. We know. We get deep. We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get deep. We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get we get deep. We get deep. We get we get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. Okay. Wake uh founder of New York just told us that his biggest win was ticker goo. Made 350 bands. Yeah. Uh that was it was a coin that was run up by like rookie XBT and uh his little squad. Yeah. Um this is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Heat. On the last last We get we get know we get we We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we We get deep. You know, we get We get We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get yo yo yo what's going on guys this is it with the rollup we're going to be patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have knows. What are people trading? What are people investing in? How much do people actually budget? We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets. We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212. All right, we're back. stream's not going to go down anymore and uh we have no possibility of getting rugged. So with that being said, you know, we were talking about how near is up incredibly today. Uh you know 550 plus quantis is doing incredibly well. It's like closing in on 200 bucks. Nearcat up 30%. The entire rest of the market red. So people are starting to realize that like there is some some real critical momentum happening here. Um, and we were just saying how like very soon people are going to start to think like, you know, near is too expensive. I'm going to go buy something else. Near is so cheap. That's what people need to understand. It's so cheap right now. Not even in the top 10. Embarrassingly cheap, dare I say. Yeah. Should be should be $20. And people should be taking you seriously because you've had some massive wins. Uh, just before the stream crapped out, you were talking to us about how uh you ran up 350 bands. Um, but I wanted to ask you, you know, when that happens, a lot of time big wins are a company with big losses. So, maybe you could tell us about the biggest loss that you had in the trenches. My biggest loss in the trenches is a token called 1000X. I believe it's still live. Um, and I don't know what they're doing with it. I haven't checked it in a while since I lost, but it's a coin that's it was a podcast token actually, believe it or not. Um, they never let me on, unfortunately. But uh it's a thousand X by Avi and Jonah. A lot of people probably know them. Uh but full disclosure, that's that's my fault. Like I don't blame them. I take risks. I take my own risk. How much did you lose on a 1000x? [snorts] Over $200,000. Like pushing like 250 I think. 250k down. You think you were the biggest? I'm probably the single biggest like in one one or two wallets. Easily the biggest loser on that coin. But that's again my own fault. And so why I mean what happened? Like how do you lose 200? You just bought the top and it just did it did it happen very quickly. No, it happened very very slowly. That's the real problem. I held that coin for over a year. Wow. Um it just bled out. And it just bled out. And what was the original buying the dips that was there anything attributed to it? Um they just stopped promoting it. like they they didn't promote it for over a year and like they they slowly less and less were talking about and pumping their bags. Pumping my bags at the time. They didn't do a good job. Are you still holding a 1000X? No. Wow. What ultimately like what was going through your mind when you finally press the sale button? Um they announced that they were basically done with it. Done with the pod, right? Yeah. 1000x. Yeah, man. Oh boy. But I think well uh I am frustrated that I think they've tried to revive it since then. But nonetheless, I digress. That's that's in the past. Bigger things that I'm focused on right now. Good. Okay. So now you're focused on Nearcat. Absolutely. Um but you've had tons of experience like you said, massive runins up, massive, you know, uh massive round trips. Round trips. Um but ultimately these, you know, contribute to the lessons that we learn and uh contribute to, you know, where where we find ourselves today. founder of Nearcat. We were just talking about how Near has now created and fostered an ecosystem of tokens, not just Near. Tell us about the lore. Give us the story. Tell us, paint the picture. What is Nearcat? Why is it critically important to Near? Nearcat is very important. So, the original lore is that Nearcat was the original mascot for Near. So, the Nearcat is just a it's a sentry. It watches out for everybody and it helps protect privacy with their little tunnels. There was there was some lore there around why Nearcat was the original mascot for Near. And we did something interesting when we launched Nearcat, which is it's not on Near Chain. It's launched on Salana, which was purposefully done because about a month ago, three weeks ago when we launched, there was no volume on NearChain. Near chain was doing less than a million dollars in 24-hour volume and on memes it was less than $50,000. The way Nearcat is built is it's a reflection token. So it's has a 3% tax on all buys and sells. So our most important metric is volume. That's what pays the near rewards. So holders of Nearcat earn near as rewards. So far we've paid out $2 million worth holders. So 2 million. Wow. Let me just make sure I get the flywheel correct. There the there's a 3% tax on all buys and sells. Correct. Um that tax gets pro it programmatically buys near and distributes it to holders. Correct. Okay. And so you launched this on Salana originally because it had the majority of memecoin volume. Yes. with the intention of onboarding the Salana users to Near and tell the story of Near to a market of people that might not know about it, might not hold and might not know how great the tech is. Wow. And so $2 million you've now distributed to holders of this token, correct? How does it feel to help people and like actually distribute value in this way? Um, it's really cool. It honestly is super fun. Uh, I feel blessed to be in this position and we've got a lot of stuff coming. I We've done two million in revenue and the tokens currently trading at 4 mil. I think that puts us at a 2x 2x earnings, which I'm not I'm not saying is cheap, but I am saying it's cheap. You are saying it is onetenth of what the uh S&P uh average PE is. Correct. Okay. And so uh you mentioned how again your biggest win 350K uh was entirely roundt uh from a 1000x maybe not entirely actually based on the numbers that you gave. Uh and so now with Nearcat doing so well it's up 30% today. Is nearcat now your biggest win? It's actually not. So um I hold less supply than a lot of people think. I've got less than 2% of the token. So you still even though you have less than 2% of the token, you still the biggest holder evenly distributed. No, I'm not the biggest holder. There's anonymous holders that hold more than me that I don't know. Okay. Um but they're just profiting from the programmatic revenue distribution of how that have earned close to how do you plan on growing the plan on growing the volume and therefore we're doing that by our main we're making a big we're making a big on so we want to be the marketing arena we want to teach the people who are doing hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars in volume trading memes that near do you foresee people, you know, how if there's a prospective buyer out there and they're thinking to themselves, you know, should I buy near or should I buy near? What do you tell them? Um I tell them buy both but you earn an average of so far it's between 100 to 250% APR holding near catat in near. So amount in six months if you hold six months to a year if you hold near you might earn the same amount in near. And what did orig like what originally inspired you to say to yourself we're gonna we're going to do this we believe like what what was the light bulb moment for you that you know turned you on to me? So, I saw it was pretty simple. I saw ZCAP was doing a good job promoting Zcash, not even promoting Zcash, but they were doing a good job distributing Zcash to the trenches. And so, it seemed obvious with the connection with Near and how bullish I've been on Near that that someone was going to do it one way or another. And so, I just went and I found Near Cat seems like the best possible lore. It's the original mascot. It is a little tricky. Everyone thinks it's a cat originally, but it's not. It's a mir cat. Not a cat. A cat. Wow. That's big news. So, breaking news here today. Mircat is not a cat. Nope. It's a Mircat. Correct. This is not another cat coin. Oh my goodness. That's huge. Okay. And so, we have uh real differentiation. Uh just like uh you said, we're we're distributing real near to Nearcat holders. Um, you know, there's also like this meta of like pairing things and so like, you know, you have tokenized equities paired with meme coins. Maybe we get board seats, right? But there there are real re like dividends that are being paid in these tokenized equities. Is that part of the play here? I have a take on that, which is I actually think it's better to be paired to a top crypto ecosystem token than to be paired to a stock. Stocks are cool. People like stocks, I guess. But I don't know many stocks with the upside that near has my personal opinion. I think there's we're in the crypto space. There's a lot more people that are going to be bullish on the biggest crypto projects than there are that are bullish on the biggest stocks. And so I think the crypto pairing meta uh actually works best when paired with a top ecosystem crypto token rather than a stock. But stock pairings are cool. Okay. I like them. So, so we're going to continue to see the pairing meta live on. Do do you get the feeling that like the trenches are kind of grown up a little bit? You know, like it's not just pure blanket like you buy this thing and who knows what happens with it, you know, it's either runs or it doesn't. Now, we're kind of in the experimentation phase. We're like thinking about doing creative things to maybe like assure some of this value rather than just pure speculation. Like that has led us to pairing. Um, it feels like a little bit of a market sophistication or a market maturity event. Do you think the trenches are growing up? Potentially. I think the trenches are growing up a little bit. And I'm skeptical that I actually think the trenches will always be cyclical in the sense that like when markets are going up, when people are making lots of money, it it just gets crazy. And so yes, there's some maturity and um there's new opportunities to play positive sum games, which is what we're trying to do with Nearcat. Um and that is a form of maturity, but I don't know. The trenches are still they're always going to be the trenches. They call it that for Yeah. Yeah. What What do you think about Quantis? Do you think we're going to get a Quant Cat? It's possible. Um I have no clue. That that seems likely. They just need some liquidity on Salana probably. Like where do you draw does everything get a cat? Like where do you draw the line? Um everything might end up getting a cat but I think the differentiation is what you do with it. So the differentiator for us is we are going to be the marketing arm for near. We are trying to simplify the near thesis. Okay. Near the best but long attention span they're not going to understand it. I think it needs to be explained in less than two sentences. Ideally, less than five words. Tell us, look into that camera. Tell us the five words that people need to understand. It's four words. It's own everything, reveal nothing. I think that's it. At least that's what we've come up with so far. It's pretty good. Pretty slick. I love it. Wick, you're the man. Thank you. Appreciate it. Nearcat to the moon. Near to the moon. And uh guys, we'll be right back with more Near Cat content. Awesome. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. last. Last We get deep. We get deep. We know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep know. We get deep know. We get deep. We get deep. Knock. We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get we get deep. We get deep. We get we get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get deep yo yo yo what's going on guys? This is itan with the rollup. We're going to be patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have most. What are people trading? What are people investing in? How much do people actually budget? We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets. We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we get You know, we get back. Uh Rob's got his hat on. That's how you know we're bullish. Market's not bullish today, but it doesn't really matter. I just had a panel at Token 249 with Trader Main, Ox Kyle, and Dennis. Uh pretty interesting panel. We talked about, you know, what coins to own? You know, are you holding the right coins? So, Dennis, I I must ask you, are you holding the right coins? Great to have you, man. Thanks for having me. Uh, yeah, obviously the right coin today is is Quantis. Is Quantis. What are we at? We're at 172 right now. I think I that was the last time I checked about 20 minutes ago, but let's see. Man, we are flying on Quantis right now. I saw you 550. I saw you sold your Robin Hood coins to buy Quantis. I did. Last night. Yes. Uh, even two days ago. I I would say middle of the night. Two days ago. And uh yeah, I've been waiting for this thing forever. I mean, the safe trade thing was just not enough for me and now the books are actually there. Do have you tried the near intense? Yeah, I know. I was buying last night. It's smooth. I mean, I kept seeing your post about like, oh, under 100, under 100, and I was like I was in bed last night like very late just like kind of drunk just smashing the buys. Yeah. And you can tell in the literally the charts like I mean I'm not a you know charts are usually a little bit more deceiving, but you can tell how smooth it is. like it's only just people getting filled and there no wicks. We're at 174. Wow. Amazing. Yeah, we're at So that's about a billion dollar fully diluted and a $50 million market cap. Um $42 million of trading volume. I mean, this is crazy. What's your time horizon here with Quantis? I give it at least uh at least a month with anything with any narrative when it first starts, right? We saw that kind of with Pearl. I think now everyone's Pearl Pilled probably here. Yeah, it's like pearl purple. Yeah, but not a lot of people are even near intense pill, let alone quantis pill. So, they haven't tried it. Yeah, let's see. No, I agree. When you use near.com, it's like wow, you realize like holy shit, it's actually really good. It is. And it's private by default. So, they just turned on like the alpha deposits. I was doing this like sending 10 transactions and each one is a USDC and then it goes straight into near intense. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. And you can't Yeah, exactly. Like you withdraw from a centralized exchange and it's gone. and they just opened Robin Hood uh chain today. So are you a near bull as well then? I am although Near has had its run for a while. So as long as the the narrative is strong which I think it is AI privacy I think Near's got his legs uh it's actually the the full utility play even you know aside from Zcash being that kind of leader in value. Yeah. Yeah. Super bullish. So so you own both So you own currently own Quantis and N little bit of Near. uh more in Quantis. I still have some eco coins like Ria, like the Nice. Yeah, Ria is kind of the main venue for Quantis that they put outside of uh Intense. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a target for Quantis? Okay. So, my personal target is thousand, but if we don't get there within the month, I'm out. Obviously, I don't think it'll be anything crazy, but um the FTB will look kind of insane. And at that point, uh, it gets to a whole number. And I don't think they will want it to be like anywhere close to Zcash. So, same supply, right? Zcash is what, 1300 right now. May maybe we can get to half of Zcash by price. Mhm. And then people will probably think, okay, consider, you know, maybe I just buy Near. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Uh, what else are you taking a look at these days? Right. There's kind of this rotation play. Near's been leading. Zcash has been leading. privacy and quantum are the leading narratives. What are the what are the other narratives that you think are uh you know pretty pretty important to own these days? I think it's that uh distribution part as well of the launch and the mining portion. So there are way more mining projects out there. Uh I I know you talked about Arthuses project. Um I'm pretty pretty bullish on that. The flop labs. Yeah, the flop labs. You're bullish on flop? I'm bullish on mining it at least. Okay. Yeah, because we are technically still early on that it's like test net, late stage test net of um similar to quantis but a few months ago. So mining hasn't really even started. Yeah, it's time to time to tell your agents to uh to start. And apparently you can mine with just agent interactions, not even GPUs. So where would someone go to mine uh their website? Tell your agent to go on their website. There's literally a landing page step by step that says like for your agent, give your agent this URL, ask it to mine. Wow. Do you think we're going to get more headless interactions? Like, you know, they have a website. It tells your agent to mine. But I I was listening to Vitalic just a couple of days ago and he was like, you know, we could end up in a world where there are no applications, right? It's just bots streaming quotes to each other. Oh, yeah. Like it's not even just bots. Think of it more like uh just skills. Mhm. Anything is just skills now. Skills and and MCPs, APIs. But now that layer is so much more extracted. You have directly just connectors. You can target Muse to go on there and the Muse just asks you to log in. What does your bot stack look? Your your AI agent. Use Grockot. What's your What's your like content creation and for markets? Like what do you use it for? Grockbot mainly for assistant, EA assistant, live assistant, groceries, planning, looking for stuff. Uh it's like it's my Google now. See, that's what I use Muse for. Muse is a little bit too I don't like the other tabs on it, but it does the same thing. But I I don't I don't want Zuck sending me automated stuff. But Muse is good also. That's free. Like for most people is Grocka is bit more expensive. What I find interesting is that you know Zuckerberg was asked what the monetization strategy for Muse is and he said a portion of the flows like a basis point on transactions and that feels huge like that. What do you mean like Muse is free? Um most of uh you know Facebook's like stack, Instagram, WhatsApp, like these are all free services, but Instagram they integrate ads. So like primarily Facebook's monetization strategy has been ads, but people have made it explicitly clear they don't like ads in their LLMs. Uh whether it's blatant or not, people don't like it interfering with their context. And so if you think back, you know, Zuck had the Libra project in which they were going to launch their own stable coin, right? But now people think that this is sort of a way to revive that without launching their own stable coin. They would just have these agents conduct commerce, whether that be online or on chain. And then they take a portion, they charge a little tax and then you know if you have a billion dollars of agentic commerce that's being done through Muse or Grockbot, Facebook just clips a little basis point off the top and that's a monetization strategy. Wow. I would say they're the ones to do that because they're they only go mainly through official connectors. if you plug it through MCP through APIs, especially like CLI stuff, it's a little bit more complicated and and like Grockbot, Muse, all of it is currently like very dependent on Stripe. So like Stripe spins up these virtual cards. So anytime an agent goes and buys something, it uses like this effect. It like creates a new credit card from scratch, one-time use. So it'll create a credit card, you'll use it one time, and then that credit card number is done, deleted, never to be used again on Stripe link or whatever. And it's all based on Stripe. And I don't I just don't foresee, you know, Elon and Grockbot, Facebook and Muse, like I they're not going to want to just adhere to Stripe's monopoly. They're going to want to eat into that that market share a little bit and take more of that stack for themselves and verticalize because they're giving away so much potential revenue to Stripe right now. Yeah, there native things like that. uh like Aerowex I I think it's like meant to give you cards and and spend ability on your agents but sandbox I'm sure like these guys are going to try to go for a comment one of the things I was at the main venue one of the things I heard say when he was on a panel was like look we kind of went through this like enlight this like you know anticipation phase and then this trough of disillusionment where we thought agents were going to be conducting everything in stable coins and then we're now in this trough of disillusionment where we're kind of like realizing that like virtual cards these credit cards are like that's what the agents are using to do all of this. But then we're going to hit the slope of enlightenment and I think there are going to be stable coins. Like I was at Cyos. The Stripe link process is kind of a pain cuz like you have to approve it and then like sometimes it doesn't happen and then like you got to like Yeah. Sometimes you sometimes you have to put in your credit card info into secure forms in Grockbot where actually happen. It's kind of annoying. I've never done I I you know you put it in once into Stripe and then all you do is authorize the Stripe approval and so once you put it in I think it's one button but so I was at I was at Cyos right and this was last week and I saw Mastercard was there and virtual cards these like one-time use credit cards are the fastest growing business segment in Mastercard which is I mean they've got a humongous business and this is the fastest growing vertical for them crazy but they still have a stable coin strategy and I and and what the head of stable coins there said was that the stable coin strategy for a payment processor like Mastercard is payer and so these virtual cards from Stripe are pretty much like credit cards but then you're going to get stable coins are going to be like debit cards. They're going to be payer use and then you're going to get this payment model where you get like it's kind of like microtransactions where your agent is going to pay the API like per call. that's going to be stable coins cuz you wouldn't spin up a credit card. It would be like a thousand, you know, API calls. You're not going to spin up a credit card for each each one. But these agents do allow you to invert the subscription model where you don't have to pay a monthly subscription cuz that was a convenience thing. You paid them you paid a subscription on a monthly basis so that you didn't get charged every day or every hour, every call. But now you have microtransactions. stable coins, you can pay every time you read a Wall Street Journal article or every time you watch a YouTube video or every time you watch, you know, uh you you call an API that is built for stable coins. That is like a debit card. That is where agents are going to start to use stable coins. And then on these like oneoff things, they'll start still use credit cards for refundability and disputes and these kinds of things. So there's still like a stable coin value proposition for Aentic Finance. Even though right now we kind of, you know, we thought everything was stable coins. Turns out everything is virtual cards. But in the long run, we're going to get to a point where it's both. It's virtual cards and it's stable coins. That is super interesting and a really good value ad. Like I cannot even manage the kind of subscriptions I have. Like every month I my drop boss scans my subscription list and then tells me, \"Hey, this one you got to cancel it now.\" I do it for the paid subs and the annoying email subs. Crazy. That's going to save me a lot of money. But how do you invest into this, Dennis? How do you kind of position to like like like how do you express who are the biggest winners here? Yeah. How do you express the bullish thesis on aic finances? Is it just I think it's a it's a stable coin companies after well if you're bullish into that. I mean, uh, you look at what Tedar is investing in. It's it's all agentic payments on stablecoin and if anyone's going to lead the way, it's going to be like Tedar adjacent payment providers. I don't have anything that on that's on my radar, but it's just because Tedar is so selective. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. No, I mean, I just think that like this trend is going to accelerate and it's like how do you position for that to win? I can't help but think that near is extremely well positioned to capitalize on a gentic finance. you know, like cuz one of the things that I I foresee is like, you know, the virtual cards are going to be great when we're like booking a hotel, we're booking a flight, that kind of thing. But when it's pay or pay per call, I I think these bots are going to end up using each other. And so you're like my agent is going to interact with Andy's agent, it's going to interact with your agent. And once like your agent is very specialized, we're going to want to pay your agent for services and we're going to pay per use, right? So you're not going to charge me a subscription model. I'm going to pay you every time I, you know, get a little service from your agent. And I I I can't help but think that like Near is very well positioned to capitalize on that agent to agent finance. I think they're just starting to uh get deep integration in actual wallets and you plug in that near intense stack, it it's amazing because totally crosschain, but you don't need to worry about anything. There's no gas, there's no nothing and it's it's really meant for that. So, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, Dennis, man, appreciate you coming on. I'm glad that we can make it happen. I think we're doing that. One more thing. Um, we are we bottom, Dennis? Are we Oh, yeah. You think so? I've talked to a bunch of people who are not even fully sold on the cycle being two years, but even if if they say we have a six months rally, they all agree it's bottom. So, I I have not heard anyone that says 40k. We we good cuz your line says like 53k or something. Yeah. But then, you know, 58 happened and then we clear above uh that 63 to 80 pump and then it would look so weird going from 83 to 53. Yeah. And now we're above what, like umif uh 50 week SMA. Yeah. Anyone watches that line? It just makes no sense to go. I mean, we're sitting at 83K right now, just hanging out and it's like a down day. Yeah. Uh I was watching uh technical roundup. 83K is like the the line. So to hold to hold for a really bullish uh end of the year. Yes. If not maybe like 78 76 but then I don't think then it's more of a choppy end of the year. Still not 58 and nowhere close to you know new lows. So So your portfolio right now is mostly Bitcoin uh now near uh Zcash adjacent stuff. So Quantis ecosystem. Yep. I still hold a little bit of Robin Hood like pawns and stuff. Um let's see what Vlad does. But um aside from that, like not much. We're looking at new revenue plays. I think everyone's tapping into revenue now. So yeah, of course there's kind of like these next order ones. Pump's been doing well as well. Um cool. Well, thanks Dennis. Thanks for your time. That was short and sweet. Uh Robbie Rob took us on a train to Jim Finance Land. So pleasure. Thanks for coming on. Cheers to you, man. Yeah. All righty. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, let's do it. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Last one. Last one. We get we get know we get deep we get deep we get deep know we know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we get You know we get know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep. What's up? We're back. We're live with the man, the myth himself, the uh the the man who serves justice on the blockchain, Alex Chevchenko. Um where do we start? We can talk about near intense. We can talk about privacy. We can talk about quantum. We can talk about uh bringing people to justice and we can talk about why near is uh seeing some of the greatest rise uh that I think any any coin has seen as of late. Um I I think one place to start Alex is uh the cabal that has formed around Near. It feels like a lot of people were sidelined. They were caught off sides intellectually and then all of a sudden they realized that there is a shelling point for intellectual capital and Agentic Finance and the ticker is near. H what how do you think people arrived at this conclusion? What do you think ultimately got them over the edge? First of all, Andy Robert, thanks for inviting me here. Um uh I do believe that um the important point was uh the token uh exactly one year ago when Zcash was rising. I was analyzing a little bit the um the kind of that rally. Why did it happen? Um and I think that it was consisted from four main points. First one is that there is a simple pitch. The second one is that the tech is legitimate enough. Obviously, nobody is looking at the ZK schemes and all the stuff. But uh I I know the guy who knows the guy who who was looking and says that it's legit. So there is a tech legitimacy. Yeah. The third one, it was a very simple product to uh kind of feel it and experience it. In case of Zcash, it was a Zashi wallet that is now Zod. And the last drop on the into into this pile was the uh you know, some uh legitimate influencers are starting to say that it makes sense. And I I think that that was the perfect storm around Zcash and actually just continues to be because the first three points are the fundamentals, right? when you have like a simple pitch, a very good product, tech legitimacy, then like everything just works out together. And with Near uh obviously we have been working on on the same type of an experience, right? Uh specifically Near is heavily focused on privacy, but if you will split it in between the AI and kind of DeFi and then with the AI thing is what we're building is universal liquidity layer. We're not competing with blockchains for the TVL, but instead we're trying to make sure that money flows are very simple and straightforward for everybody who are using your intents. And then this is simple. We have a simple application on top of it which is near.com. Anyone is able to use this. Um and the integration for B2B partners, it's also very simple. And uh so there is a pitch, there is a simple application. Hopefully people do believe that we have enough we have shown enough over the past years uh enough tech legitimacy at least near blockchain is one of a very few blockchains that didn't stop uh it didn't skip a bit uh at all and is is also working on the weekends. Um so uh so that's the that's kind of the the thing and then probably you know some some people started to to see this and like the this this spiral is is going and that this is a very from my point of view very simple kind of yeah I mean look the private intent side of things when you bridge into near like you know and deposit and you realize that you're in like this onchain black box it [snorts] really is a compelling like it just feels different than a lot of the other onchain experiences which I think is is is fantastic. Um, you know, the other part of of this is not only what you've just you spoken about with regards to the brand and the marketing and the tech and the privacy, but you guys are now kind of creating this thing where Near Intense and Near.com is becoming this like shelling point or this liquidity hub for speculative assets that don't want to go through the centralized exchange pipeline of just extraction and they instead want to launch onchain on near intense. like launching onchain has always been the dream because you can do a lot of things that don't require it's just a very like cipher punk very onchain like defi oriented way of of doing like an ICO and so like to just talk to us about what this quantis launch means to you uh kind of seeing the success so far what what what you've learned from it what your takeaways are what went well what hasn't gone so well yeah yeah so for near intense obviously we have uh like in our stack uh the most complicated thing is to integrate the the some particular chain. Uh it takes time, it takes resources and we need to make sure that everything is is secure and then there are tons of monitoring and all the stuff, right? So with Quantas this was a complicated part of of the journey. Uh but we decided that uh the the team was legit enough. We would like to invest our own money, our own resources into integration here. Um uh but then after this it's kind of the same thing that goes with any type of an exchange like there needs to be a market maker on the other side. H so the guys figured it out um and uh and yeah now it can be traded. Now I do believe that uh many centralized exchanges have been in this position um for uh like in the position of jeopardizing the launches of the tokens right um and uh they're not always saying that there is a listing fee. Sometimes they're saying oh yeah there is no listing fee but you know you need to do marketing you know like we need to drop some tokens of your project to our holders you know things like that. Um I and I do understand why this is happening. It's because they have huge distribution and um yeah but but I I also do believe that uh if we're able to have an alternative to this uh then we are all going to be a little bit better. Some projects are going to choose to list on centralized exchanges. Other projects would make a choice towards the um uh kind of more decentralized solutions. And and that's okay. It means that we're going to cover better the needs and suit the needs of of particular founders and the way how they would like to do. I really believe that with the uh onchain and with near intense uh there is a very high chance to uh show to the world uh how the proper price discovery needs to be done. Um and uh I'm just looking forward to see how this experiment with with Quantis uh is going to go. Um yeah, what what would indicate to you that it's a success that you know Quantum uh that that Quantis uh illustrates a case study that others can follow uh and document a successful token launch? Um when I'm thinking about the token launches, I think that uh like one of the successful token launches are uh the 20 uh 2020 era of coin list when Solana and Near were launched there. I think that everybody are considering launches of near and salana being successful um on coin list and uh that's why I think that it would be really nice to just just check what is was the price performance you know and things like that uh and also like how people are looking at into all of the things the most important thing for the platform is obviously we're staying neutral here u um I I can tell everybody that uh uh there is No quant payment to the QTC payment to the platform for listing right no listing fee on near intense there is no listing fee on near intense uh because obviously we do understand that the project is very young we are not like we cannot build them anything but we're investing our own in the kind of resources into building this integration. The reason why we are doing this is we we feel that the the project is is legit enough. Uh they they passed our due diligence and then we think that uh other people also might think about it like that and if they want to get an exposure to the project then they are going to come to neuro.com and some portion of these people are going to stay as users of.com for a longer period of time. Yeah. But that's that's a kind of the the thing and this is how we are thinking about that thing. Obviously we do not want to give this additional investment of our credibility uh into the projects that we're that are not passing our due diligence right but in general for everybody investing is a high risky process so uh make sure that you're doing your own research. Yeah. So the only listing fee is do you meet due diligence and I I think you're absolutely right that you know other investors are going to look at this and they're going to see the value proposition of a quantum resistant layer one especially in today's day and age. And I think other builders and founders are going to look at you know the value proposition of near intense and they're going to see uh you know that they can get connected to onchain liquidity uh and that is sufficient for a successful token launch. you know, I I can't help but think before you came on, we were kind of I was thinking through like these, you know, the way in which onchain is developing. Um, and we were thinking through agents and how bots are starting to interact with one another and uh, you know, kind of the the way that bots are a counterparty to a lot of us right now. um they're also, you know, developing a lot of these onchain venues, but eventually, you know, we're just going to be in this paradigm where bots are just kind of interacting with one another. And maybe there's no apps at all. Everything is just a headless interaction. We're all just interacting with our agents. And I can't really put my finger on it, but it feels like Near is very well positioned to be the venue of headless bot finance. Maybe you can help just articulate why it feels that way. Um this is the reason that we for this is that we are working in this direction for more than two years. The whole reason why Near Intense is brought to the market under the Near brand is a deep conversation that we held with Ilia back in August 2024 and when we were thinking about what is the what is the future version of the world that we would like to live in is uh something like this. And this is going to be a little bit of a rough pitch because it's not like like very fine tuned but so sorry for that but but here is it like the my interaction with the world consists of two uh two things. First one is that I know what I want roughly and then I want this to get done. I want food delivered. I want transportation. I want to learn Portuguese. Uh things like that. And there's there is a second version of interaction is I don't know what I want so feed me in with different stuff. Um and when there is a feed that is happening in all of the social media and stuff like that obviously everybody knows by now that they optimizing for verality they optimizing for the number of ads that they're showing to you and all of this stuff that's that's very hard to control. So I would like to live in the version of the world when this feed is not optimizing me that it it is not necessary for this feed to earn money. So it means that it works on my end. It more it works for me probably it is AI assisted. So this is a userowned AI piece that is protecting me. That's why Near has userowned AI. And if I have intent then user owned AI is able to help me determine what actually I want to do and then and then find the counterparties to trade. And here we are with intense protocol that is there. And uh and for me it's okay to pay within that transaction. If I'm purchasing a car but I need to pay you know 100 bucks more well that's okay. Uh everybody are everybody are okay with that. Yeah. So that's great for the AI there to be on my end and not trying to monetize me, not trying to feed me with different ads like OpenAI is doing this. I want this AI to be on my side. Once we figured out this concept of the world, this version of the future of the world, it was a no-brainer for us to to keep these two legs on which Near is standing, the user owned AI with private inference and all of the tools necessary for this with intense infrastructure that is also in the process of building and more and more things are going to be built next to each other because they are not possible to exist without one another. Uh, and that's why both of these are joined in the near. Yeah, Alex, you've done a great job. Great event. Uh, congrats on on the successful Quantis launch. Hope more to come. uh you know I've been talking to your team about other assets that I think that are uh on on the on the rise and have low liquidity profiles across the board and I think that we can create a a world where near.com kind of catalyzes a lot of uh liquid markets for you know the top performing assets of this of this bull market. So appreciate your time great event and thanks for everything man. Yeah thanks for coming. Yes sir. All right guys last standby and then we're going to finish this show up with Kane. It's been I mean probably a year since we talked to Kane. So, let's get this one on the road. The boys are cooked. Need coffee and more things. Uh that include tequila or vodka for me for sure. We'll be right back. This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Heat. Last time last We get deep. We get deep. Get deep. We get deep know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we get deep know we get Know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. All righty, King. Um, what's going on, man? How how's how's life? How are we doing? It's good. It's good. I mean, other than, you know, the AI apocalypse that's upon us, other than that, it's amazing. No, dude, you're deep in the AI trenches from what I've seen. Like, you're like harnessing and grock botting and like, what's going on? Um, I think we had uh probably like four or five of our engineers inex that were like very deep early last year in a coding. Um, and I got like uh vibe back then vibe coding pill, now we just call it coding, right? Um, and yeah, I went down the rabbit hole. Um, feels like early DeFi, like just every day new things, crazy stuff landing. Um, you know, I mean, today OpenAI dropping like all of map on the world like and like it was nothing like also like we shipped some more features like it's just it's wild, man. Like the world is going crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I uh so using Grockbot a ton, started to do like aentic trading stuff on like per platforms, starting to do it on like near.com, a couple other platforms, but dude, it doesn't really work that well yet. Like you get caught behind the bot uh capture things or like it just doesn't work quite yet. Like I like I don't know. I thought, okay, I was going to get my Grobot. It's got it own like server. It's like I'm going to give it a MetaMask account. I'm going to set it, you know, 100 USC. and like [snorts] go on unis swap and trade and it's like it doesn't exactly we're not quite there yet. Yeah, we're close. So yeah, I mean Infinex, you know, earlier in the year uh in March, we spent about 2 months building a full agentic trading platform, right? Um and we were we knew it was going to be a little bit early, but we were like, let's just see how far we can take it. Um we also didn't know how we were going to take it to market exactly, right? Um, it wasn't clear whether or not, you know, people wanted the brain like left curve version of just a vault and you throw 100 USDC in it and let the bot trade for you. Um, or if they were going to want to deploy their own strategies or, you know, if you could deploy a strategy and then I could put money into that and then you would get, you know, uh, some kind of like yield or fee revenue from that. We weren't sure how to exactly take it to market. Um but you know to your point we rolled out like 20 strategies and like on average they lost money. Yeah. You know on average they lost money and that was even doing things that were like not like you know super tail risk crazy stuff like you know uh concentrated liquidity provisioning. Yeah. I'm just doing like every two hours you have the you know here's three tokens. Uh look at like run a little quant strategy and pick whatever token is going to perform the best for the next two hours. Yeah. And then just do that every every two hours and then like it goes for six hours and it'll be like oh I'm stuck. I'm like what do you mean you're stuck? You just swap three times in a row like oh no I'm stuck. Um MetaMask sign me out. Yeah. What's the I I can't get back into MetaMask. Or it's like oh I I got blocked by capture. So so there's like giving your agent a strategy and then there's you know like you said an agentic trading experience or aic trading platform. How does an agentic trading platform look different from a normal trading platform where we just go and log in and place some trades? Yeah. So, I mean, you know, the difference is you're not using like the MetaMask MCP server or something like that, right? So, we took everything in Infinex and we uh created a a gateway for agents to trade with uh over MCP, right? Um and so we built uh I think there were like five of us that built um individual harnesses and then different strategies within those harnesses. So it was like a pure trading harness like small like not not a ton of code you know like five 5 10,000 lines of code um and then we deployed you know I had one that was trading uh X stocks um I had another one uh that was uh providing liquidity um uh in the base Salana market which is a bit weird right like but Saul's pretty liquid there um and on arrow there was a ton of emissions and so if you could really nail it but what we weren't dealing with was like actually getting the agent to go and do like computer use and go on to you know the aerodyome DAP and do stuff. We had an server and it was literally like constructing the transaction constructing the bite code and then sending it to our relayer to be executed for So, okay. So, it's like it's like the it's a step it's a step under, if you will, like just like, yo, do like, you know, I want to do this and then Okay, cuz like that's where I'm getting stuck. And it sounds as if you're you're kind of making headway on both directions like you're improving the agent and making it a little bit more specialized at trading and then you're also taking the app and the exchange and making it a little bit more friendly. Exactly. Right. So that they don't get signed out and these kinds of things. I can't help but think that maybe there's like one middle piece like the market structure itself. Like do you think that an order book is the right market structure for agents or do you think like an RFQ like I heard I think it was Hib and Kyle Samani talking earlier about like RFQS and how that is a particularly appealing ergonomic structure for agents. Yeah. Yeah. Um I look you know the agents honestly were fine okay at like using the tools right. Um I had agents that were uh running um basis trade strategies. They could handle hyperlquid no problem, right? They like no issues whatsoever and they never got logged out like it was, you know, they had a a embedded private key that they could access and you know they were they were off, right? Um so agents are very and these were we're talking you know this is like Opus uh 4.5, right? Um you know uh uh no Fable, no Astra, like these were not the smartest agents. Um, one of the challenges was cost. Um, you know, it was costing uh somewhere on the order of like $1,000 a day to run these strategies, right? Which was the other reason why I pulled funds rather than, you know, you might not want to spend $365,000 a year on inference to run your strategy, right? But, you know, if the three of us or 10 of us or 50 of us get together and we go, \"Hey, I'll put five grand in, you put five grand in, now maybe we cover the cost.\" Um, so that was part of it as well. Um, but, uh, models are much better. Um, but the models back then were not having an issue whatsoever with uh with this. What they were having an issue with was making money and you know that's hard. Like that's the hard part, right? Like do you think it was a time horizon thing? I think you know it's hard to generate alpha like if it were easy you know then and so so on on some level we were like okay there's 10 strategies right? Um, each of us picks our favorite three strategies and five of them will make money in any given week or month. Five of them will lose money. And if you pick three that lose money, like uh skill issue, right? Um, but you know, on balance, are they generating alpha? No. Like the 10 agents are not generating alpha. Um, and you know, we what we tried is to go, okay, let's take 10, pick the best three, replicate those, but it just it didn't matter. like you replicated them, the next week they lost money, right? So, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to do. There's a there's a skill that a buddy of mine gave to me. It's called fable orchestrator, but again, it's probably not going to be able to generate alpha if if the thing with alpha is like if you're making money, you're just not, you know, you're making money and you're not telling anyone about it and you're just making money like you're in the markets, you're anonymous, just making money. But anyhow, like the whole concept here is that you have a fable orchestrator. So, you have Fable 5.1 orchestrating. It's like it operates like an executive function and then you've got Opus uh sub agents that do the task or like a third of the task, come back, check in with with the boss man Fable, go back to the second third of the task, check in with the FA and so you have a way to like optimize your token usage but still get the Fable level intelligence but get that kind of like the runs to do the work. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you guys built out these strategies, you know, made some developments to Infinex, had a lot of learning experiences. Where did you end up? We parked it. Um, you know, we spent we spent probably 6 weeks total, I would say. Uh, and and just to be clear, that was an entirely new platform, right? The ability to build the entire thing, the individual harnesses for the agents to trade inside of the strategies that the agents were running, the platform they were running on in 6 weeks is a testament to how insane. And again, this was March. Like if you did this today, it would be 2 weeks, right? Um, you know, that's crazy, dude. The thing that we're building right now is um, you know, people there's a there's a core group of people that love Infinex, right? Like they really love it. Um, it's their favorite wallet. uh they find it, you know, super convenient, um easy to use, but we never got that like um killer feature where people were like, I have to use this thing, right? And I think part of it was there's a lot of uh it's very broad app, right? There's a lot of things you can do. Um and it's not 100% clear unless you invest the time why it's better. You know, it's not like obviously a better uh solution, right? Um even though it is more convenient, it's gasless, it's abstracted, it's got all the chains. Um, one of the things that didn't happen for us that we were hoping would happen is like we expected this proliferation of chains and people would be wanting to get onto bar chain then mega eat then abstract then blast and rotating around and we were like ready for that and it didn't happen. It didn't happen. Yeah. And you know, Veritchain didn't work, Mega Eat didn't work, you know, um right abstract shutting down. Blast is shutting down. You know, we invested so much time in having this like 25 chain abstracted, you know, and like these EVM chains are not equivalent, right? Like there's a lot of work to make them seamlessly, you know, function together. So, that was that was probably one of the misses. And so, we said, you know what, let's uh let's pair it back to like the four chains that people give a shit about. Um, let's make a pure trading app. Um, no distractions because, you know, we we had a very good crosschain experience, but not uh as good a same chain experience. Um, and so it wasn't as good for memecoins. Great for Zcash on near intense, but you want to punt pawns on, you know, Robin Hood and it was slow and clunky or whatever. So, we've said, \"All right, strip everything back, take everything that we learned, um, put a native mobile app that's a pure trading app with, you know, spot trading, per trading, prediction markets, and maybe options as well. Um, and make it the best app to trade on, right? But it's a trading app.\" And and the thing that we also kind of uh got wrong, I think, with Infinex is we wanted to take over your entire crypto life. You had to be allin. If you're like, \"Ah, I just want to dabble.\" We're like, \"No, like all in or nothing, right?\" Um, and and if you didn't go all in, you didn't really get the benefit of it. This, we're saying, look, this is your trading app. Whether you have 100 bucks, 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks, 10 grand, whatever it is, right? Um, we will give you the best trading experience in a native mobile app. If you then go, \"Hey, by the way, I've also got a million dollars worth of Zcash that I want to safely store.\" Right? Okay, we've got Infinex proper. We've got the full platform. it's desktop, it supports, you know, multi-IGs and all of that stuff. Great. Come in. You know, we've got near intents. We got all that stuff for you. If you just want to punch shitters on the subway, like this is the app for you, right? Um and and I think that's been very clarifying cuz there's a bunch of things where as we've been building it, we're like, \"Oh, what if?\" And we're like, \"No, no what ifs. Just build the fucking app, build the thing, and make it good at trading. The end, right?\" You know, Ka, I would love to be able to go back in time and have social trading exist during the DeFi summary uh days. Imagine. I mean, and we kind of had it. We had Telegram. We had little groups. Santiago would send you the message being like, \"Hey, you up?\" sort of thing, right? Um so this is the the other component, right? Um I'm a Telegram maxi. I live my life in Telegram. Um, we, and this is a fucking wild thing to say, but we upgraded the Telegram uh um bridge library, which uh was basically abandoned wear, right? Um, had an agent over 2 days like rebuild the entire library um so that it would work with like native uh um uh React Native apps and the app also has a Telegram client built in. Wow. Okay, cool. So the interesting thing about that is the Telegram social graph is probably the most powerful more powerful than Twitter I would say right um and what it means is that you can be on Telegram. I can be using this app and I'm inside of the Telegram client and I'm getting all these cool things. I send you a screenshot of like you post a CA, I instantly get like a a buy button plus a chart. I send you the screenshot and you go uh why don't I have that? And I'm like, \"Oh, you're using we're still we're we're in Telegram, right? Like I can open up my Telegram app and I can message you on desktop or whatever your Telegram than Telegram. That's interesting.\" And so you're like, \"Whoa, whoa, whoa. How do I get this Telegram?\" And it's like, \"Oh, there's a there's another Telegram client that's built in there.\" And then you get a bunch of cool things like you can, you know, DCA and it'll be like, \"Hey.\" And then the other thing is that gives you a really easy and ergonomic connector for agents. Yeah. I love it because all of a sudden it's like, \"Oh, my agent lives in Telegram. Your Rockfather for whatever.\" Yeah. So, so King, I guess just last thing, man, like what's your like how does your portfolio look these days? Like, are you ETH heavy still? Are you still running the ETH train? Is it like my validators? I I jokingly said on on the podcast this morning, I'm like, I'm not sure if I know where my validator keys are. So, I'm an ETH validator for life. Um, so yeah, I still I still have a big bag of ETH. Um, I I have a big bag of um I've got I've got some hype. I've got um I've got some Zcash. Um I've got a little bit of drive still. Nice. Thankfully, um I did sell most of my drive at the bottom. The boys have done well. Yeah, they have. It's Dude, those are your boys. I know. You know what the funny thing is though? Uh and and Nick would say this, right? Um you know, I said to him uh in uh New York last year, right? I said, \"I'm out, man. like I can't handle this anymore. Like the emotional roller coaster, I've tried put everything into trying to meme you guys into existence and it hasn't worked. And so I sold everything. Um and luckily uh my prop fund, which is uh run by Jordan, uh who's the co-founder of Synthetics, uh he didn't sell all his so I had a moon bag, so I'm okay. But uh but yeah, someone has to get their face ripped off. No, but they they've done well though. And they've done amazingly well. You know, we get into all the tail risks and things like Hyper Liquid's like, \"Oh, we're going to come in options.\" his lighters like, \"Oh, you know, we're going to do options.\" So, it's going to be tough. Uh, but I'm happy for them. Yeah. And I just, you know, they've been building for so long. Yeah. And crushing now. And I can't help but ask like the I mean, synthetics was so correct. Like, look at Robin Hood chain. Yeah. Was it just too early? Were was there other things that synthetics didn't do that Robin Hood did? Like I mean do you have any you know curiosity to like the debt thing or the stable coin or all of it or what? Literally Robin Hood is synthetic equities. Yeah. It's the same thing. Yeah. I mean you guys were you guys were before Terra Luna's little whole mirror thing. Mirror started because of fucking you know do was like uh I like you're saying it's fucking like the synthetic assets was like this is the future that I mean that's everything that that was tokenization that was tokenization before tokenization. I mean, we had S Tesla in like whatever it was, 2019, right? Um, you know, it's crazy. So, so we had we had we had synthetic gold. Um, now why did it not work? Um, the model was uh very degenerate, right? Like the shared debt pool model um was predicated on like it's it was a sound model theoretically. You you understood what people wanted. People wanted to exp dude the thing that people wanted in the earliest days. The reason why we made synthetics is because all of the dexes came to us and said people want to trade Bitcoin on Ethereum. Yeah, I mean that's true. That's it. And we were like that's they just wanted to trade. They're like Ethereum's good, but I want to trade Bitcoin on Ethereum. And the Dexters were like everyone keeps giving us these fucking shit coins and they just want Bitcoin. Give us Bitcoin. And so we said okay, synthetic Bitcoin fine. And not just synthetic Bitcoin cuz the challenge was also liquidity, right? So, we created the shared debt pool. You could swap at one point and people did $10 million worth of synthetic ETH and synthetic Bitcoin for 30 Bips. It's fucking cheaper than Metamas swaps, man. Like, it's crazy, right? And and so um you know, what did we get wrong there? I think uh we we had a system that in theory was very efficient u but in practice having everyone have to hedge that exposure. Today, Winter Mu would just show up and be like, \"Ah, this is I can do this in my sleep.\" Having me and a bunch of Dgens in a Discord trying to hedge out this debt pool that was moving around. It It was a nightmare. And we were always like on the wrong side of every trade, right? Like we're long ETH, ETH nukes. We're short ETH, ETH rips, right? And so the debt pool just kept getting hammered and it and it created a crazy headwind. So, um, you know, being, uh, too early is the same as being wrong. Well, I appreciate your humility and for coming on and just hanging out. I'm sure you're busy. Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, we've been, uh, we've been working hard, growing, and so to the next couple years. I mean, we're in this just so funny how, you know, we started DeFi and we're just in like this, I don't know, we're in this grinding away in the trenches, man. I don't know. It's just something else, man. Clearly got a lot right as well, which is uh, very cool. So, thanks for coming on, spending the time. Cheers. and uh wrapping up the show today. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate it. Yeah. All righty, guys. I think I'm about ready to wrap it up. We're done. That was it. That was privacy and quantum day, guys. Privacy powered by and Near and Quantis and Zcash. Shout out to the whole team. Couldn't do the scenes. Everyone here, shout out to Near. Shout out to Quantis, guys. No stream, no show probably till like middle of next week. We've got just boatloads of content to do postp production on. So, thank you for being a part of it all. Much love and we'll see you guys soon. Peace. Ace.","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T04:18:20.167Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":25,"text":"17. Second floor.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=25s"},{"start_seconds":39,"text":"We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=39s"},{"start_seconds":46,"text":"I think the rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=46s"},{"start_seconds":51,"text":"It's probably one of the first rollup episodes, right? Um adding it to my library as we speak. potentially multi-chain deployments.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=51s"},{"start_seconds":58,"text":"We are at Dev Connect day one. Here I'm Jess from Bas.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=58s"},{"start_seconds":85,"text":"Heat. Heat. N.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=85s"},{"start_seconds":95,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=95s"},{"start_seconds":127,"text":"JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=127s"},{"start_seconds":133,"text":"It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=133s"},{"start_seconds":141,"text":"He said it. He finally said it. So bullish.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=141s"},{"start_seconds":144,"text":"It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=144s"},{"start_seconds":164,"text":"Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=164s"},{"start_seconds":174,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=174s"},{"start_seconds":209,"text":"Hey,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=209s"},{"start_seconds":223,"text":"hey, hey.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=223s"},{"start_seconds":234,"text":"The rollup is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. Rollup is my favorite.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=234s"},{"start_seconds":240,"text":"People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=240s"},{"start_seconds":280,"text":"Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=280s"},{"start_seconds":284,"text":"It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=284s"},{"start_seconds":292,"text":"Welcome to the nest. See you on the show.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=292s"},{"start_seconds":302,"text":"Be more bullish.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=302s"},{"start_seconds":304,"text":"Mir day quantum day. Welcome to token 2049. We made the plane, baby girl. We're lit.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=304s"},{"start_seconds":312,"text":"Near's at 547. Stop us.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=312s"},{"start_seconds":314,"text":"Quantis is flying. We will get Joe's right here. Joe, get in here. Joe, get in here. Say, tell us what's going on. How does it feel? Quantum 15.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=314s"},{"start_seconds":322,"text":"What's going on?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=322s"},{"start_seconds":323,"text":"You know, I'm really grateful to be here. We got an excellent crowd. Quantum and privacy is probably the most important topic right now in blockchain and crypto. And yeah, I'm just happy. So, who are you?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=323s"},{"start_seconds":333,"text":"Who are you?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=333s"},{"start_seconds":333,"text":"So, my name is Joe Matia. I'm the co-founder of Quantis. Um, we are Quantum Secure Encrypted Money layer 1 blockchain. We just launched on near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=333s"},{"start_seconds":341,"text":"intense two days ago. Uh really successful launch and um yeah there's a massive rallying cry around Quantum right now. Justin Drake came out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=341s"},{"start_seconds":349,"text":"with a post that says it is time to enter bunker mode. Was this pre-ordained? Was this coordinated? How did you time the release of Quantis with such impeccable timing?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=349s"},{"start_seconds":358,"text":"You know, I would like to think that we have the mandate of heaven. I think that we are OG Bitcoiners. We're OG crypto uh people. I've been in the game since","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=358s"},{"start_seconds":365,"text":"2017. And you know, I've always been looking for how can I add value? how can I participate in this ecosystem? What can I do? And when I learned about the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=365s"},{"start_seconds":373,"text":"quantum threat to cryptography, I went, \"Wow, this is so obvious.\" And then we started bringing it up two years ago, going to different conferences and people, smart people, cryptographers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=373s"},{"start_seconds":381,"text":"were really on. They were really like, \"Yeah, this makes sense.\" And a lot of people were very skeptical of it. And so I found that interesting that they were skeptical of something that the whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=381s"},{"start_seconds":390,"text":"foundation of crypto is built on cryptography and if something could threaten the cryptography. And I thought, okay, this is like I see I've been in tech for, you know, since I was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=390s"},{"start_seconds":398,"text":"a teenager, right? And people have been talking about, you know, quantum is 20 years out. Quantum is 20 years out.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=398s"},{"start_seconds":404,"text":"Well, it's been 20 years. And now with AI accelerating research in all different areas of tech, quantum is if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=404s"},{"start_seconds":411,"text":"there was a 1% chance that quantum could break elliptic curves, uh should we not do something about it? And so we said,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=411s"},{"start_seconds":418,"text":"\"Yeah, we should.\" And our investors thought we should. And so we started building quantum. tell us about some of the team uh on the advisor side. You","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=418s"},{"start_seconds":425,"text":"know, we we've seen the likes of of folks on the roster today. La, Ellie,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=425s"},{"start_seconds":431,"text":"Ben, Cissone, Zuko, Bellagi, Ilia. Um I think Naval is involved in some in some way. How did you, you know, kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=431s"},{"start_seconds":439,"text":"build this all-star roster and how did you even create these?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=439s"},{"start_seconds":443,"text":"Okay, let me let me clarify a few things about who um um so so we do have some great advisers. Some of them are friends but not advisers I should. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=443s"},{"start_seconds":451,"text":"Um so we have Ragav who was formerly uh the CEO of Coin List. He's one of our adviserss. We have Tom Howard from Zcash Labs. He's one of our adviserss. We have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=451s"},{"start_seconds":459,"text":"Joey Santoro uh from Fay Protocol. Um gosh, who else do we have? Um yeah. So, so we have an incredible lineup. Bumiji","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=459s"},{"start_seconds":468,"text":"was our our second investor uh second largest investor. Came in um really early uh two years ago to support the project. And um uh we have we've did all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=468s"},{"start_seconds":477,"text":"angels. Every every round we did was all angel investors which I'm really proud of and it was it people really believed in what we were doing. Um really scrappy. We didn't raise a lot of money.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=477s"},{"start_seconds":486,"text":"We you know two 2.5 million total. Um and I I'm I'm actually really proud that we were able to get this far with so little money and no VC backing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=486s"},{"start_seconds":493,"text":"And there's a reason that you're here with NAR at this P and Q this privacy and quantum day. Tell us about the work that you're doing with Near and how it's a little bit different for a coin.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=493s"},{"start_seconds":502,"text":"You know I like to say real recognize real. We met the near guys about a year and a half ago um in Dubai and we were at this uh we were at some side event","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=502s"},{"start_seconds":510,"text":"party and uh there was a white board and you know Chris is a been in crypto my my co-founder Chris uh for over 10 years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=510s"},{"start_seconds":517,"text":"and him and Elia are on the white board going at it with Ellie and all that and and they were like oh th they saw it they said this is obvious we need a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=517s"},{"start_seconds":525,"text":"quantum secure blockchain built from the foundation to be the benchmark they knew that this was going to be important yet all the other chains have the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=525s"},{"start_seconds":533,"text":"opportunity to migrate which is a separate topic we could talk about that but to have something that was built quantum secure from day one this we are the benchmark we are the gold standard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=533s"},{"start_seconds":541,"text":"for every other chain to look at and say okay how what's your quantum uh what's your QTPS you know what's your transactions per second","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=541s"},{"start_seconds":549,"text":"yeah amazing and so tell us uh uh I mean I guess what people can expect over the next few months we're really really excited as we close out we're getting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=549s"},{"start_seconds":557,"text":"ready for our for our next guest we're going to have a fantastic set of interviews tell us a little bit about what people can expect over the next couple of weeks and months.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=557s"},{"start_seconds":564,"text":"Yeah. I mean, look, you know, the quantum threat to crypto is real. Um, I think, you know, the community and the marketplace is voting with their dollars. You can check the launch. We're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=564s"},{"start_seconds":572,"text":"tradeable on near.com, you know, join follow us on X. Check out and, you know, stay tuned. Um, Joe Mat on X, uh,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=572s"},{"start_seconds":579,"text":"Quantis Network. Um, and, uh, we'd love to hear from you guys, you know.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=579s"},{"start_seconds":582,"text":"Joe, you're the man. Thank you for having us out. Pleasure to be a part of this and, uh, we're really excited. Amazing. Awesome. We'll see you soon.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=582s"},{"start_seconds":588,"text":"All right, guys. That was Joe and uh we are absolutely uh excited and uh we're having we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=588s"},{"start_seconds":596,"text":"having fun. We just went live here at Privacy and Quantum Day. Uh our next guest Joe is totally impromptu so that was well managed. Our next guest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=596s"},{"start_seconds":604,"text":"technically our first guest maybe our second guest is Ellie Benson uh involved in the Zcash ecosystem.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=604s"},{"start_seconds":611,"text":"uh founder of Starknet, uh one of the uh people that I think it's important that we listen to as we try to parse out what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=611s"},{"start_seconds":619,"text":"is real and what isn't real. Ellie, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you uh as always. Thanks for being here. And yeah, everyone is very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=619s"},{"start_seconds":627,"text":"curious. I think right now they're trying to determine uh what is real about quantum, what is not, how does privacy fit into this, do we need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=627s"},{"start_seconds":634,"text":"migrate our coins, are we really at risk right now? maybe you can just give us a sense of how you've approached the quantum problem up till now and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=634s"},{"start_seconds":642,"text":"we'll we'll kind of dig into some of more of the nuts and bolts.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=642s"},{"start_seconds":644,"text":"Yeah, so even when I was working on the cryptography that ended up being Zcash.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=644s"},{"start_seconds":649,"text":"So I was one of the founding scientists and a co-founder of it and I'm very proud of that I was thinking about or we were thinking about uh what do we do uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=649s"},{"start_seconds":657,"text":"with uh quantum and how do we build safer uh cryptographic ZK protocols that give you privacy and also quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=657s"},{"start_seconds":665,"text":"resistance. And the good news is that since 2018 uh we already know how to solve this problem. So another paper","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=665s"},{"start_seconds":673,"text":"that I wrote back then an academic paper um called ZK Starks actually has in the title you know postquantum zero","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=673s"},{"start_seconds":680,"text":"knowledge. So that technology exists and by now it's uh in production used in starknet uh you know for scaling a whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=680s"},{"start_seconds":688,"text":"bunch of uh decentralized exchanges and has privacy in it. Now whether we need to migrate I think the short answer is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=688s"},{"start_seconds":695,"text":"yes. We need to prepare migrating all of our technology to things that are postquantum secure and in this respect","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=695s"},{"start_seconds":703,"text":"um I want to say that at starknet we will prepare things to be a safe haven and if that means starknet needs to become an L1 because it cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=703s"},{"start_seconds":712,"text":"rely on the security of other things that's certainly something that we are actively considering. And what is it about an L1 that differentiates it,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=712s"},{"start_seconds":721,"text":"right? Because Ethereum is is really doing a ton of research into this quantum problem, trying to help, you know, move us into a quantum resistant","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=721s"},{"start_seconds":729,"text":"and secure paradigm. And so what is it about taking an L2 and turning it into L1 that can make it more quantum resistant than Ethereum is already planning to do?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=729s"},{"start_seconds":738,"text":"Well, where Ethereum is heading is where Starknet is now. So Ethereum is talking about moving to ZK Starks, moving to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=738s"},{"start_seconds":747,"text":"new VM that is ZK Stark friendly. All of that is following the footsteps of Starknet. It exists today. Now right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=747s"},{"start_seconds":754,"text":"we are reliant on the security of Ethereum and many parts of it are not quantum safe. So what it would mean if we had to move and become an L1, it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=754s"},{"start_seconds":762,"text":"would mean to replace basically that layer with a quantum resistant layer that has only you know hashes maybe proof of work is quantum resistant","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=762s"},{"start_seconds":771,"text":"allows postquantum signatures all of that stuff can be built and why would we need to move that it's very simple if Ethereum does not move fast enough and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=771s"},{"start_seconds":779,"text":"I'm not sure it will like that's the basic question.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=779s"},{"start_seconds":781,"text":"Wow. Okay. And so despite Ethereum's work and going towards a more quantum resistant future it may not be moving fast enough. You says you you say it is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=781s"},{"start_seconds":790,"text":"now time to migrate. What is it about the ZK start paper that you wrote back in 2018 that makes it quantum resistance? Give us a little bit more of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=790s"},{"start_seconds":799,"text":"a technical answer so that we can really understand what is going on.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=799s"},{"start_seconds":802,"text":"So um every time uh you know breaking cryptography is a little bit like solving a maze and you know finding the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=802s"},{"start_seconds":809,"text":"exit and quantum physics allows you to explore many different paths of the maze at the same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=809s"},{"start_seconds":817,"text":"time. It's a little bit like this shreddinger's cat where you can be in many different positions and then sort of uh magically you end up only in one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=817s"},{"start_seconds":826,"text":"universe where it's the exit. So that's what quantum computers do to things like elliptic curves. But there are other kinds of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=826s"},{"start_seconds":833,"text":"mazes like the kinds that ZK starks are built on called hash functions which don't have this nice structure and for them quantum computers just cannot help","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=833s"},{"start_seconds":842,"text":"you break the system or find an easy exit. So that is why ZK starks are safer from a quantum point of view.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=842s"},{"start_seconds":850,"text":"Just just to make sure Zcash is that system. It is uh hashbased and it is this sort of maze that a quantum computer could not break.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=850s"},{"start_seconds":860,"text":"I'm not involved in Zcash these days anymore. I think many parts of it are not yet uh that kind of cryptography. I think it still relies too much on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=860s"},{"start_seconds":869,"text":"older kind of cryptography which is elliptic curve cryptography. What I was referring to was Starknet and ZK Starks which are uh that technology is postquantum secure today.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=869s"},{"start_seconds":879,"text":"It is.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=879s"},{"start_seconds":880,"text":"Yeah. And is is that a requirement Ellie now? Like do you feel that that is a requirement for I think it's something that we should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=880s"},{"start_seconds":887,"text":"really get our act together on on really adopting quickly to postquantum secure things because the bigger threat is not the quantum computer. It's the super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=887s"},{"start_seconds":895,"text":"intelligence in math of classical computers. And like what might happen tomorrow is like some of these systems could just be broken,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=895s"},{"start_seconds":902,"text":"right? Even before Qday, we could reach that with AI.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=902s"},{"start_seconds":905,"text":"Yes. And this would be far worse because it means that now keys can be just compromised by anyone, not just by folks that have a quantum.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=905s"},{"start_seconds":913,"text":"And how important is it that we do this at the L1 level versus turning something that's already existing into what we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=913s"},{"start_seconds":921,"text":"might call quantum resistant or quantum secure? How possible is it to upgrade an existing system versus build something from scratch?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=921s"},{"start_seconds":927,"text":"Both of them are very hard, but like it's somewhat easier to build something from scratch from scratch. And other things that we're considering building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=927s"},{"start_seconds":935,"text":"is also sort of safe havens in the following sense like allowing people to save a spot for the eventuality of like a quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=935s"},{"start_seconds":944,"text":"break. There are ways for you to do on Bitcoin, on Ethereum, things that would make you a little bit safer if there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=944s"},{"start_seconds":951,"text":"catastrophe and then sort of move on to a safer place if you need.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=951s"},{"start_seconds":955,"text":"So, this isn't a black and white paradigm. There are some gray areas where we can make ourselves a little bit more safe without going entirely quantum secure.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=955s"},{"start_seconds":963,"text":"Yes, there's we're entering a period of extreme uncertainty and I think it's all about hedging and preparing for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=963s"},{"start_seconds":970,"text":"future and preparing for the unknown unknowns. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=970s"},{"start_seconds":974,"text":"Um I have a separate question. Um when you I don't know if you had a chance to look at that Justin Drake tweet today or post today. Uh I I know you you know you guys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=974s"},{"start_seconds":982,"text":"spoke on the Ethereum front there. Um when you think about the kind of call to action being like hey don't have exposed public keys like do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=982s"},{"start_seconds":990,"text":"what you can to get your public keys in order that they're not exposed and like kind of sitting ducks.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=990s"},{"start_seconds":994,"text":"Yeah. Like I don't know if the question is like how urgent or like how real but I think like the bigger idea is like is that all that it's going to take from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=994s"},{"start_seconds":1002,"text":"the user perspective like what do I need to know as a user? How do I as a user prepare you know and the answer might be bridge to starkware right or you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1002s"},{"start_seconds":1010,"text":"bridge to starket but how do I kind of prepare from a user perspective uh with my assets across different chains etc. I do think the the the the shortest answer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1010s"},{"start_seconds":1019,"text":"is does involve Starknet just because um we're probably the most crypto agile and most uh you know advanced when it comes to postquantum cryptography. But the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1019s"},{"start_seconds":1027,"text":"problem is that if you're on a blockchain where all the other keys gets get exposed and you know the smart contracts are compromised and everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1027s"},{"start_seconds":1034,"text":"like that then it doesn't really help if you know you are uh you know you sort of uh how do you say rotated your keys or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1034s"},{"start_seconds":1042,"text":"something that doesn't help. You need to be in a place where everything is uh quantum ready and quant and and crypto agile which means you can move very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1042s"},{"start_seconds":1050,"text":"quickly to adopt the very the most advanced technology that would be the safest and and frankly that's why we built Starknet. So are are there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1050s"},{"start_seconds":1059,"text":"solutions that users can take now uh that would prepare us for super intelligence on classical computers and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1059s"},{"start_seconds":1066,"text":"how does that differ from the kind of path that we might take to prepare against a quantum threat? I think that unfortunately uh it has to be something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1066s"},{"start_seconds":1074,"text":"on the infrastructure layer like you can't I mean you could hedge a little bit or like move to safe grounds. I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1074s"},{"start_seconds":1082,"text":"mentioned starknet but like you know still for users it's mostly like screaming out to uh developers and and uh to adopt safer technologies.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1082s"},{"start_seconds":1092,"text":"So Justin Drake says enter it's time to enter bunker mode and you're saying that's maybe not sufficient. I just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1092s"},{"start_seconds":1099,"text":"tweeted I retweeted his and I said Starknet is that ZK bunker. ZK Starks are the ZK bunker that they are moving towards.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1099s"},{"start_seconds":1107,"text":"I got one more. Do you think Bitcoin is safe? No, obviously not.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1107s"},{"start_seconds":1111,"text":"And do you think Bitcoin's monetary properties of being a store of value asset? Something that you want to be able to put in a vault underground, bury","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1111s"},{"start_seconds":1118,"text":"it, come back to it in 10 years and know that it's not going to be, let's call it, fucked with. Uh like gold has that property, right? Do you think Bitcoin's lost that property to a certain extent?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1118s"},{"start_seconds":1127,"text":"Well, um, right now it's that big threat and I think part of the price action reflects that. But the the way what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1127s"},{"start_seconds":1136,"text":"we're going to try and do is again offer safe havens and means for Bitcoiners to reserve a spot for a case where you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1136s"},{"start_seconds":1143,"text":"things are compromised and we'll try to do that for as many chains as we can on top of Starket so there's a safe haven.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1143s"},{"start_seconds":1149,"text":"Imagine that sort of uh Bitcoin, you know, the infrastructure goes down for a while until the, you know, everyone finally agrees to do a soft fork that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1149s"},{"start_seconds":1157,"text":"will allow for postquantum security. So, you would want uh some system where you could sort of reserve a spot, be there while things are being fixed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1157s"},{"start_seconds":1166,"text":"and then go back there. So, a little bit like uh you know a nuclear bunker. So, we're building that on Stark. Yeah. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1166s"},{"start_seconds":1172,"text":"And so with that lens you you know Robbie had asked this right about like is it better to kind of start fresh or uh you know change or you know adapt","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1172s"},{"start_seconds":1181,"text":"Quantis you know is putting on this event.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1181s"},{"start_seconds":1184,"text":"I find it hard to like I'm happy that that that this team has came out. It sounds great on paper. The people here are fantastic but I you know I'm not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1184s"},{"start_seconds":1193,"text":"even nearly as technical as you are let alone even to the level of understanding what is quantum resistant or not. So, I find it hard to like understand like,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1193s"},{"start_seconds":1200,"text":"you know, how legitimate is a new company that's, you know, not even not just them, just like anyone that says they're quantum resistant or quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1200s"},{"start_seconds":1207,"text":"ready. I just I'm like, okay, like how do I know? And what I came to find out from speaking with them last night and others is that there's this inevitable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1207s"},{"start_seconds":1216,"text":"impossibility of like you never actually really know. Like you can work and work and work and work and be like the most quantum resistant today, but tomorrow you cannot be enough. Yes.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1216s"},{"start_seconds":1226,"text":"Is that like the right way to frame these kind of companies that are like building these products for this kind of postquantum world? Is it really just like they they've done by the standards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1226s"},{"start_seconds":1235,"text":"that the NSA sets out that there's governmental standards for this technology? You have those stamps of approval, but even still at that point,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1235s"},{"start_seconds":1243,"text":"you know, it's still kind of like there's always that inevitability or possibility.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1243s"},{"start_seconds":1246,"text":"I think um crypto agility is the most important thing. right? Being, you know, being on an infrastructure and working","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1246s"},{"start_seconds":1254,"text":"with teams that, you know, can move very fast, know their shit when it comes to cryptography and math and can adapt","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1254s"},{"start_seconds":1261,"text":"quickly. Um, and I I believe Quantis is a very strong team. You know, Near is strong, Zash is strong. Obviously, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1261s"},{"start_seconds":1268,"text":"know, Starknet I think is the best and um you know, Bitcoin, I love it a lot, but like uh it's really uh the sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1268s"},{"start_seconds":1276,"text":"uh mindset where of sticking the head in the sand and saying, you know, no soft forks for anything, not even Opcat. I think that's going to be very very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1276s"},{"start_seconds":1284,"text":"damaging unfortunately, but it's not too late to change course and say there's a problem, you know, Houston, there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1284s"},{"start_seconds":1291,"text":"situation and let's start doing software.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1291s"},{"start_seconds":1295,"text":"So that agility aspect is the important part there. Yes. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1295s"},{"start_seconds":1298,"text":"Have you looked at Quantis technology, what what do they do well? What do they need to improve on?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1298s"},{"start_seconds":1304,"text":"I I met a few of the teams and I'm very impressed with their sort of vision and so on. And I know many of the supporters I now when I run Starkware as CEO, I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1304s"},{"start_seconds":1313,"text":"just don't have enough time to do uh technical diveins, but I think they're a solid team. Okay. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1313s"},{"start_seconds":1320,"text":"Yeah. I mean, I don't have What's next? I mean, it's been a while.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1320s"},{"start_seconds":1324,"text":"Yeah. Catch us up on Starknet and catch us up on Exactly. Because you mentioned how Starknet is one of the It is the ZK bunker. You can go there. You can kind of reserve a spot.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1324s"},{"start_seconds":1332,"text":"It's pretty based.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1332s"},{"start_seconds":1333,"text":"Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are going to see that as a potential escape hack that they can go to, kind of wait out the quantum threat, whether they're in Bitcoin or something else, and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1333s"},{"start_seconds":1342,"text":"reserve that spot to go back to the original chain once that threat has been resolved. What else is possible?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1342s"},{"start_seconds":1348,"text":"Obviously, that's a huge value proposition in and of itself, but while they're in the ZK bunker, what can they do in there?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1348s"},{"start_seconds":1353,"text":"Oh, so one thing that we're I'm very proud of that we released is uh so so you know, I co-ounded Zcash. I'm very proud of it, but like Zcash is sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1353s"},{"start_seconds":1361,"text":"the bunker style. Well, you know, the sort of uh Bitcoin version of privacy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1361s"},{"start_seconds":1366,"text":"Uh so you can only transfer uh Zcash shielded in it. But what we built on Starknet, it's called Stark 20 is a usable form of privacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1366s"},{"start_seconds":1374,"text":"that gives you like very good UX and you can do a whole bunch of things. And one product that we just released that I'm very proud of is sort of a VPN for Poly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1374s"},{"start_seconds":1382,"text":"Market where basically it's called offmarket. You can access it at offmarket.cx and you can go there and do uh basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1382s"},{"start_seconds":1389,"text":"poly market trading but you're shielded and it has a very uh simple UX. You can come onto it from any chain from you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1389s"},{"start_seconds":1397,"text":"know credit cards and so on. So like this VPN layer uh usable privacy is another thing that is enabled on Starknet and I'm very proud of.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1397s"},{"start_seconds":1405,"text":"Yeah. So, um, one of our, uh, sponsors of the show and just friends that we kind of came to learn about is this company called Zama. This sounds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1405s"},{"start_seconds":1412,"text":"similar in a sense that Zcash is kind of like the store of value privacy, but then there's still this race for this in the same way Ethereum was the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1412s"},{"start_seconds":1420,"text":"programmable money for Bitcoin. There's now this race for programmable privacy on chain. Obviously, Near.com does a great job, right, with their actual uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1420s"},{"start_seconds":1427,"text":"kind of like I don't know, call it like a harness, almost like an AI harness that you have, kind of like your onchain harness, uh kind of like a confidential black box on chain. But what you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1427s"},{"start_seconds":1436,"text":"getting at is more of like powering applications in the smart smart contract space with privacy. And I think that's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1436s"},{"start_seconds":1442,"text":"very unexplored and a massive TAM for the world because it's like if smart contracts and onchain finance is going to eat a lot of finance and eat a lot of like, you know, commerce and things,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1442s"},{"start_seconds":1450,"text":"then that privacy element is going to be everywhere as well. There's a huge pie there, right? So, we have that. We have like uh you know, DeFi that is composable. We","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1450s"},{"start_seconds":1458,"text":"have AMMs, uh swaps, things like that that you can do in a shielded manner without like with very good UX. As I said, we have this VPN layer for Poly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1458s"},{"start_seconds":1467,"text":"Market. We're probably going to extend it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1467s"},{"start_seconds":1468,"text":"The VPN layer, that's a good marketing term as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1468s"},{"start_seconds":1471,"text":"Exactly. So, we want to make it exactly as you said like uh uh the version of programmable private money that also happens to be postquantum secure and a safe haven for uh you know, the crypto.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1471s"},{"start_seconds":1482,"text":"question for you on this. So um you know I look at Zama I look at RCM starkware","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1482s"},{"start_seconds":1488,"text":"starknet um near intense even to a certain extent and I and I see competition but I also see a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1488s"},{"start_seconds":1495,"text":"collaborative opportunity. So how do you think about integrating kind of these worlds together like you know obviously there's only so many apps apps that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1495s"},{"start_seconds":1503,"text":"doing well there's only so you know so much right now on chain but you know 10 years from now it's going to grow a ton.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1503s"},{"start_seconds":1508,"text":"How do you plan to kind of like like how does Stark and Starkware fit in with Near with Zcash Zama like how is there like a because the end goal is privacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1508s"},{"start_seconds":1517,"text":"on chain right that's what we're trying to build here not it's not just one team that's going to tackle it how do you kind of think about that so we we have very good connections obviously to to Zcash you know I know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1517s"},{"start_seconds":1525,"text":"Zuko from back in the day when you co-founded it um very friendly also with the near team so near intense already um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1525s"},{"start_seconds":1533,"text":"bridges over to uh Starknet here's like a cool thing like one of the only places where you could get exposure to uh um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1533s"},{"start_seconds":1541,"text":"predictions on Zcash price is a product that appears only on Starknet. It's called Super Vega. You can Google it and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1541s"},{"start_seconds":1548,"text":"like uh sometimes I tweet about my own predictions on Zcash.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1548s"},{"start_seconds":1552,"text":"I've seen them. I've seen them later $3,500.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1552s"},{"start_seconds":1555,"text":"I went for 5K, you know, I went wild, but my first prediction when it was like around, I don't know, 500 or 800, I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1555s"},{"start_seconds":1562,"text":"predicted 1,200 by the end of a month and I, you know, that landed. Um so like Super Vega is another example of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1562s"},{"start_seconds":1570,"text":"something that exists only on Starknet allows you basically options trading for retail but uh on things like Zcash","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1570s"},{"start_seconds":1577,"text":"lighter, Bitcoin, Ethereum, STRK obviously the the STRK token you can do all of that and um this is the Zcash","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1577s"},{"start_seconds":1585,"text":"part for instance is by basically collaboration with near intense. So you have like and another fun thing is you can actually shield Zcash on Starknet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1585s"},{"start_seconds":1594,"text":"under the STRK usable privacy uh platform and then you can swap it privately using AMMs and stuff like that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1594s"},{"start_seconds":1602,"text":"We have a saying on the show that's uh a dollar onchain tends to stay onchain and I think about privacy a very similar way. A dollar that's confidential or shielded tends to stay shielded.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1602s"},{"start_seconds":1611,"text":"Yeah. You don't like once you go into near.com on in the confidential intents and things, you you're not going back on chain and being like, let let me go out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1611s"},{"start_seconds":1618,"text":"and not be private. It's it's a b it's a it's a luxury, right? Well, it's a luxury currently. It'll be the default soon.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1618s"},{"start_seconds":1625,"text":"We'll see. Yeah. Ellie, thanks so much, man. Really really appreciate it as always. Pleasure to have you on.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1625s"},{"start_seconds":1630,"text":"Yes. It's been too long, so I have to get you on again soon. Thank you. Thanks, Ellie.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1630s"},{"start_seconds":1633,"text":"All righty. Um, guys, I mean, I'm bullish.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1633s"},{"start_seconds":1638,"text":"Yeah, bullish start. I mean, look at that. more secure than many of the other alternatives.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1638s"},{"start_seconds":1642,"text":"I'm glad that there is competitive forces, but I look, I don't think these are as I don't think these are as competitive as we might think. I think of it, look, we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1642s"},{"start_seconds":1650,"text":"in Singapore. There's a massive like capitalist like capital here and it we don't think of like Singapore and Manhattan as competitive with one another.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1650s"},{"start_seconds":1658,"text":"Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1658s"},{"start_seconds":1659,"text":"I think of these as building out the confidential or shielded economy on chain. Yeah. And the dollar that's private, you know, it was very much like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1659s"},{"start_seconds":1667,"text":"an original thesis that we had around Ethereum where like if you had a dollar that went into a base, right, that would ultimately benefit like a dollar that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1667s"},{"start_seconds":1675,"text":"would go into another L2 like a Starknet, right? And it was very, you know, uh, positive sum. And I think that private, it's not always like that, but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1675s"},{"start_seconds":1682,"text":"I think the privacy economy is like that right now where if you get a net new dollar into one of these confidential applications, it is actually a net new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1682s"},{"start_seconds":1692,"text":"user of liquidity, net new unit of liquidity that could end up flowing potentially into one of these other privacy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1692s"},{"start_seconds":1698,"text":"Guys, on that note, we're doing a $2,49 giveaway. Hopefully Steph in the audience gets it. Uh if you want to just zoom in on the camera here a bit if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1698s"},{"start_seconds":1706,"text":"possible. Uh we're doing a giveaway here. uh $2,49. I I've I've heard there's been some weird QR code shenanigans in token. So, uh we're you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1706s"},{"start_seconds":1715,"text":"just got to scan the QR code, guys. Uh it takes you to our landing page, type in your email, follow us on X, do whatever you can. Alex is going to walk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1715s"},{"start_seconds":1723,"text":"around the venue, hand these out to people. Um and we're going to make sure and I think we've got a signed copy. You're the man. Appreciate it, Ellie.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1723s"},{"start_seconds":1730,"text":"Let's get Ellie on the camera here. Ellie, what do we have here? Go ahead. Sit down and tell us. What do we have?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1730s"},{"start_seconds":1734,"text":"Look, tell uh tell that camera. Tell us what we Uh my book uh tells my story of Zcash, Zero Knowledge, how I moved from being a mathematician to uh founding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1734s"},{"start_seconds":1744,"text":"well two companies. Um and I just gave a signed copy to both uh Andy and Robbie.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1744s"},{"start_seconds":1749,"text":"So thank you so much. Thank you very much. Appreciate. We'll see you next time.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1749s"},{"start_seconds":1753,"text":"This is an airplane reading October 2026. Robbie, keep hitting it out of the park. Respect Ellie. Keep hitting it out of the park.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1753s"},{"start_seconds":1762,"text":"Respect.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1762s"},{"start_seconds":1762,"text":"My portfolio is out of the park, ladies and gentlemen. Much respect to Ellie Benson. What is Near trading at right now? Near is flying on this news of new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1762s"},{"start_seconds":1771,"text":"quantum threats. 542 Near Protocol cracks the top 20.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1771s"},{"start_seconds":1776,"text":"My goat Wake would like to be allowed on the stream. Speak the good gospel of Nearcat. Yeah, Nearcat. He's going to be on the stream. He's going to be on the stream at 3 p.m. Nearcat. Wake is coming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1776s"},{"start_seconds":1783,"text":"on the pod. Nearcat is coming on the pod. Ladies and gentlemen, own at least key 10 QTC. Thank me later, buddy. I own a lot more than that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1783s"},{"start_seconds":1792,"text":"A lot more than that, Rob. Yeah, upwards of 150 right now. You guys heard from Joe. My goodness. No financial advice.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1792s"},{"start_seconds":1800,"text":"You guys might be hearing about QTC for a long time, but obviously you've got very very technical people that are now coming out of the woodwork and starting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1800s"},{"start_seconds":1807,"text":"to endorse QTC and Quantis. And I think I mean whether it was coordinated this uh this this post from Justin Drake and the Quantis launch, whether that was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1807s"},{"start_seconds":1816,"text":"coordinated or not, it does show you that Quantum is real and people are starting to take it very very seriously.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1816s"},{"start_seconds":1822,"text":"So, I I think this launch couldn't have been better timed and it was an extremely extremely pertinent launch.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1822s"},{"start_seconds":1829,"text":"What What do we have here? What's going on behind?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1829s"},{"start_seconds":1831,"text":"We're cooking. We're cooking. We're cooking hard. We're cooking with gas. Uh check your Telegram. Uh my lovely friend. Um we need our next guest in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1831s"},{"start_seconds":1838,"text":"Anakah group chat. Uh guys, I mean, look, the market's down a little bit. Um but we're up. I mean, we're feeling good.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1838s"},{"start_seconds":1846,"text":"Uh we're here at the Quantis Day with Near. I mean, Near's one of the leaders of this entire week, Rob. I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1846s"},{"start_seconds":1853,"text":"mean, look, we called it, I think, in a way. Like, I was like I put out a tweet and I was like, \"Hey, like I think Near, Quantis, and Zcash are going to be some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1853s"},{"start_seconds":1862,"text":"of the biggest winners of this week.\" And frankly, here we are. Yeah. I mean, look, the market is validating some of the things that we've been talking about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1862s"},{"start_seconds":1869,"text":"for a long time. Uh, I think the perceived threat of quantum and the perceived threat of AI are particularly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1869s"},{"start_seconds":1877,"text":"pertinent right now. People are taking them. so much more seriously than they had been even over the last recent months. And I think look whether you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1877s"},{"start_seconds":1885,"text":"think this is months, years or decades away, the fact is that it is a perceived threat. And and the market is now in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1885s"},{"start_seconds":1893,"text":"momentum based paradigm. And I think perceived narratives, perceived threats can have as much impact as very real","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1893s"},{"start_seconds":1900,"text":"threats to overcome the sense of apathy that we saw for for many months. And so perceived notions are now uh now causing massive impacts on the market.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1900s"},{"start_seconds":1910,"text":"I agree, man. I mean, look, we have the classic conference pullback. We're not, you know, this is nothing new. We're not worried about it. I like the dynamic.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1910s"},{"start_seconds":1920,"text":"You got like a navy blue suit, but it's black. I got like a fully black.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1920s"},{"start_seconds":1923,"text":"You got a fully black. I got a navy blue.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1923s"},{"start_seconds":1924,"text":"Well, don't worry. You got a whole navy blue. Wait, you have a navy? This is navy. This is the same suit I've been wearing. I thought you I thought this was black.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1924s"},{"start_seconds":1931,"text":"You got your glasses now, dude. I got you another I got you another navy blue suit. Nothing that's not nothing to mad about.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1931s"},{"start_seconds":1937,"text":"Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. Is it arriving today?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1937s"},{"start_seconds":1939,"text":"Tomorrow morning 6:15 a.m. at the airport along with our t-shirts that we're going to be giving away. Be more bullish t-shirts.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1939s"},{"start_seconds":1945,"text":"Be more bullish t-shirts that we're going to be giving away.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1945s"},{"start_seconds":1948,"text":"All right, guys. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back from the near quantum and privacy day. That boy Joe's fired up. See you guys in a second.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1948s"},{"start_seconds":1955,"text":"QTC 158. No way.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1955s"},{"start_seconds":1959,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1959s"},{"start_seconds":1973,"text":"last.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1973s"},{"start_seconds":1983,"text":"Last last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=1983s"},{"start_seconds":2026,"text":"We get deep. We get know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2026s"},{"start_seconds":2032,"text":"We get deep know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2032s"},{"start_seconds":2041,"text":"we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2041s"},{"start_seconds":2050,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2050s"},{"start_seconds":2056,"text":"we get we get deep we get deep we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2056s"},{"start_seconds":2062,"text":"We get you know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2062s"},{"start_seconds":2083,"text":"deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2083s"},{"start_seconds":2092,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2092s"},{"start_seconds":2146,"text":"We We get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2146s"},{"start_seconds":2152,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2152s"},{"start_seconds":2158,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2158s"},{"start_seconds":2164,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2164s"},{"start_seconds":2170,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2170s"},{"start_seconds":2176,"text":"We get yo yo yo. What's going on, guys? This is Itan with the rollup. We're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2176s"},{"start_seconds":2185,"text":"patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have most. What are people trading? What are people investing in?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2185s"},{"start_seconds":2192,"text":"How much do people actually budget?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2192s"},{"start_seconds":2194,"text":"We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2194s"},{"start_seconds":2203,"text":"loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2203s"},{"start_seconds":2208,"text":"We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2208s"},{"start_seconds":2261,"text":"3, two, one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2261s"},{"start_seconds":2264,"text":"We're here at the uh Quantum Privacy Day with UV Lightman, the CEO of Quantis. Uh for those of you guys who don't know, Quantis is a new layer 1 blockchain focused on quantum resistant technology.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2264s"},{"start_seconds":2274,"text":"U congrats on on the launch on near intense. Uh very smart choice if I do say so myself. Quick reflections, who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2274s"},{"start_seconds":2282,"text":"are you and why? and just quick reflections on the launch and I think where did you come from? I think it's important that people understand like the story as far as what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2282s"},{"start_seconds":2289,"text":"brought you here because people are very very excited. They're very enthralled around the team and the friends and the network that Quantis is surrounded by.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2289s"},{"start_seconds":2297,"text":"So help us understand how you arrived to launch Quantis.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2297s"},{"start_seconds":2300,"text":"Well, I mean so I uh you know I was a math nerd in school. You know, computer science, AI, quantum computing. I was just like fascinated with any high-tech","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2300s"},{"start_seconds":2308,"text":"stuff. And um you know I've been for a lot of my career in the sort of more hacker underground uh you know I was like a cyber security consultant for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2308s"},{"start_seconds":2318,"text":"high net worth individuals and things like that. So so I don't you know I I'm I don't love getting lots of attention but for this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2318s"},{"start_seconds":2325,"text":"project I had to do it. So so here we are. Um and uh but you know I I got into Bitcoin early on. You know, there's a whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2325s"},{"start_seconds":2333,"text":"story of how I heard about it that I probably shouldn't tell online, but um but uh you know, I was too scared to do anything uh with the with the you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2333s"},{"start_seconds":2340,"text":"the dark markets, but I I was fascinated by the technology. And you know, it was the first international wire transfer I ever sent was to to Mount Gaus, you know, and I was like I was a poor grad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2340s"},{"start_seconds":2349,"text":"student. I was like, am I going to lose all my money? And my dad's like, you're definitely going to lose all your money. So, fortunately, this one time he was wrong. But um but the uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2349s"},{"start_seconds":2358,"text":"you know, so so I' I've been early to a lot of things. sometimes too early. But um but really, you know, th this was I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2358s"},{"start_seconds":2366,"text":"was just placed in a position where I got I basically heard about the quantum thing before other people did. And uh and you know, I I I'm always ranting to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2366s"},{"start_seconds":2374,"text":"my friends about uh you know, how a blockchain should be built. And you know, one of our investor friends was one day he was just like, you know what,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2374s"},{"start_seconds":2381,"text":"you should like just shut up. Just like go build it yourself if you know so much. And I was just like, you know, it stung a little bit. But uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2381s"},{"start_seconds":2388,"text":"but yeah, so here we are. I I think there's a lot of people that are now hearing about quantum. You heard it about it very very early, but and and started to build this in preparation for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2388s"},{"start_seconds":2397,"text":"it. I mean, and but now there's a lot of people that are taking it a lot more seriously, seriously thinking about migrating coins to what people consider","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2397s"},{"start_seconds":2405,"text":"more quantum resistant technology, but you actually went out and you built that. So, help us understand what's real. Do people need to migrate? And why is Quantis the solution?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2405s"},{"start_seconds":2413,"text":"Yeah, just help us understand. Yeah, exactly. What's real about Quantis?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2413s"},{"start_seconds":2416,"text":"Well, okay. So, so, uh, you know, a lot of people hear, you know, oh, quantum computing and, you know, maybe they're like, oh, sci-fi, oh, it's a computer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2416s"},{"start_seconds":2424,"text":"can do anything instantly, and that's not really true. Uh, there's there's, you know, a wide variety of problems where a quantum computer gets a moderate speed up. You know, there's quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2424s"},{"start_seconds":2432,"text":"algorithms that only run on a quantum computer. Uh, but there's a very narrow range of problems where you get an extreme speed up and, uh, you know, it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2432s"},{"start_seconds":2440,"text":"like a laser cutting through butter. And uh unfortunately that happens to include the math problems that we use to secure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2440s"},{"start_seconds":2448,"text":"most public key cryptography today. So it's elliptic curves and RSA. So so those things are going to have to go.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2448s"},{"start_seconds":2453,"text":"Now on exactly what timeline, we don't know. And of course that that depends a lot on uh you know what your risk tolerance is and and and what's uh how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2453s"},{"start_seconds":2462,"text":"how critical those systems are. So, uh, so if you're, you know, if you got a trillion dollar asset secured by elliptic curves, you might want to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2462s"},{"start_seconds":2470,"text":"taking it seriously because, uh, because, you know, with Bitcoin, not only, uh, do you have to implement the technology, which, you know, Bitcoin is notoriously slow at doing that, but you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2470s"},{"start_seconds":2478,"text":"also have to migrate people to the new tech technology. You have to get people to stop using the old thing and start using the new thing. And it's not something where, you know, an engineer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2478s"},{"start_seconds":2487,"text":"can just push a button and force everyone to do it. And uh and so you know to contrast this like signal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2487s"},{"start_seconds":2494,"text":"private messenger iMessage uh cloudflare they already went postquantum and and just nobody noticed unless you're like in this you know. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2494s"},{"start_seconds":2502,"text":"I got I got one more questions man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2502s"},{"start_seconds":2504,"text":"Well I'm just curious about the QTC token. I think a lot of people are going to see this and they're going to things ripping today.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2504s"},{"start_seconds":2510,"text":"Yeah. They're going to feel they're going to feel they're going to feel caught off sides. Right. So, so as you describe the Quantis technology, I think people are going to start to take that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2510s"},{"start_seconds":2518,"text":"seriously. But why is it also important that they take the QTC token seriously?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2518s"},{"start_seconds":2522,"text":"Well, look, I mean, we we like I said, I'm a I'm a Bitcoiner. I uh I I think I've got one-shotted by this idea of fix","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2522s"},{"start_seconds":2530,"text":"the money, fix the world. And so, we tried to take all the good ideas that Bitcoin had and just fix the few small things that that, you know, it just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2530s"},{"start_seconds":2537,"text":"wasn't ready for. And so uh you know the 21 million coins uh the the focused on just the money use case we're not a smart contract platform and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2537s"},{"start_seconds":2546,"text":"but what about the launch sorry like the fair launch here like the process there intents your investors like how much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2546s"},{"start_seconds":2553,"text":"overhang is there you know just if you can share just very quickly about like how you guys are like what this you know kind of vesting is just give us like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2553s"},{"start_seconds":2561,"text":"transparent answer as to like why if I buy this I'm not going to get fucked who's going to dump on me how is it being mine","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2561s"},{"start_seconds":2568,"text":"Who owns the supply? Like what's going on? That's what I'm getting asked on Telegram right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2568s"},{"start_seconds":2573,"text":"No, these are important question. Super important question. So So we decided to not do a dev tax because it's harder for people to sort of compute how much that's going to how much overhang that is.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2573s"},{"start_seconds":2582,"text":"The uh so we did a pre-mine essentially a premint of uh 27% and that's locked up for a year and then uh and then drips","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2582s"},{"start_seconds":2591,"text":"out linearly over 3 years. So it's a sort of standard Silicon Valley structure in that sense. And uh but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2591s"},{"start_seconds":2597,"text":"the you know it's uh the unlocks are onchain you can view everything happening and uh and and there was a a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2597s"},{"start_seconds":2605,"text":"small portion that 1% that we we we put into a liquidity bucket so that we could provide liquidity on near intense at the beginning to to avoid a kind of you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2605s"},{"start_seconds":2614,"text":"sometimes in a low liquidity environment like prices can do some really silly things and then people get hurt. So we wanted to have it more you know like appropriately sized. Now obviously it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2614s"},{"start_seconds":2622,"text":"uh you know still it's early days so please guys be you know be smart don't don't uh you know like think about the FTV as well as the market cap you know to get a call out.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2622s"},{"start_seconds":2632,"text":"So uh you know and and uh but look it's like some people have more risk tolerance less risk tolerance and just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2632s"},{"start_seconds":2639,"text":"like just just wait and see and tell don't rush into something don't let other people rush you into something. So thanks J. Thanks for your time.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2639s"},{"start_seconds":2648,"text":"Great event coming on and great launched and uh hope wish you the best man. Thank you. Stay stay quantum proof.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2648s"},{"start_seconds":2655,"text":"All righty guys, we've got Ilia Polosukin. Ilia is here. He's ready to come on. Um and then we have he's the man of the hour. I mean we just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2655s"},{"start_seconds":2663,"text":"had Yuvie, right, which is kind of the quantum side of the P and Q day. And now we're going to have Ilia, right? One of the I I I call him one of the founding fathers of AI. I think he truly is.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2663s"},{"start_seconds":2674,"text":"welcome to the show. Founding uncles.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2674s"},{"start_seconds":2676,"text":"Founding uncles of AI. He's the He's got two kids. We got this book from uh Ellie about zero knowledge proofs. Alex on our team back there has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2676s"},{"start_seconds":2685,"text":"your plaque uh with the attention is all that you need. That's going to go up in the office in in in New York City. Um great event, big couple weeks for near.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2685s"},{"start_seconds":2695,"text":"Um look man, you're a humble guy, Ilia.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2695s"},{"start_seconds":2697,"text":"Um you're you're very smart, very humble. How do you feel about the last like six to eight weeks about Near? I feel like the whole market has woken up to near. I mean, I've seen near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2697s"},{"start_seconds":2705,"text":"everywhere. Uh people are calling it like Zcash is a bitcoin of this bull market. Near is Ethereum. Like things are getting crazy quick. Humbly kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2705s"},{"start_seconds":2713,"text":"like where do you see things now? Where do you see things going? Where are we at?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2713s"},{"start_seconds":2718,"text":"Yeah, I mean you you know near right we've been building sort of like bull and bear through you know past like what eight years.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2718s"},{"start_seconds":2726,"text":"Y uh nine years if you include the AI before that. So uh we have a vision. The world is changing and we need the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2726s"},{"start_seconds":2734,"text":"decentralized technology. We need privacy. We need private AI. We need private money. We need to unite and really kind of connect not just web 3","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2734s"},{"start_seconds":2743,"text":"but also like rest of the markets. And so it's exciting to see more and more people joining. It's obviously like has massive flywheel effects on products. Uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2743s"},{"start_seconds":2753,"text":"obviously, you know, market price is important because it gives everyone more resources, attracts more attention and so it's exciting to kind of have all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2753s"},{"start_seconds":2761,"text":"this uh action and we're going to continue turning that into more products, more value.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2761s"},{"start_seconds":2766,"text":"Yeah, man. I mean, I think like the thing that has just become such such so apparent to the market and to me is that I mean, we're here at this Quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2766s"},{"start_seconds":2774,"text":"Privacy Day with Quantis, right? They just launched. Their token is doing exceptionally well. Big congrats to them. Um, you know, the the near intense","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2774s"},{"start_seconds":2783,"text":"uh and the near.com experience, the black box of privacy of trading per swaps, bridging is just immaculate. It's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2783s"},{"start_seconds":2792,"text":"it's so good. Like it is just it is just like Grockbot is my AI harness. Near.com is my is my onchain harness. Right. But","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2792s"},{"start_seconds":2800,"text":"extrapolating that, we talked about this last night over some wine in that there is a new world that you guys are getting into where it's like you are becoming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2800s"},{"start_seconds":2807,"text":"the trading venue for the onchain speculative assets of this bull market.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2807s"},{"start_seconds":2812,"text":"Quantis being one and we talking about that other token, Pearl. I'm just curious how you think about Near Intense as this kind of broader chain abstraction vision that you once had.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2812s"},{"start_seconds":2821,"text":"Now it's coming to fruition. Quant is a fantastic example. There's no centralized exchange listings. You can only buy it on safe trade, but it's it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2821s"},{"start_seconds":2828,"text":"on near intent. It's on near.com. I was swapping into it this morning and last night is easy as hell and there's good liquidity. It happened so fast. Just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2828s"},{"start_seconds":2836,"text":"like talk to us about what that vision is for Near Intense and and Near.com to bootstrap I guess the high quality speculative assets of this next era of this industry.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2836s"},{"start_seconds":2845,"text":"Yeah, I mean so Near Intense kind of the broadest form of vision, right, is like it's a market of markets, right? It's it's effectively this universal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2845s"},{"start_seconds":2853,"text":"aggregator of anyone wanting to trade anything anywhere and being able to do it through kind of like finding the best counter body to do it, right? And I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2853s"},{"start_seconds":2862,"text":"not talking about just crypto. I'm not talking about just physical like digital assets. You know, if you want to order a room in a hotel, if you want to, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2862s"},{"start_seconds":2870,"text":"know, build a base on Mars, right, there's going to be a counterparty that will be willing to do that, right? You know, Elon Musk is like, \"Okay, cool.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2870s"},{"start_seconds":2876,"text":"I'll do it for, you know, $2 trillion, right?\" So that's a that's a broadest form of vision right and we kind of started with like okay chain abstraction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2876s"},{"start_seconds":2884,"text":"is like really first problem that I mean we've been in crypto for a while this is like the most painful thing you can imagine right then now we just added","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2884s"},{"start_seconds":2892,"text":"stocks right so now you're aggregating actually not just crypto venues you actually now have NASDAQ and New York stock exchange and we're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2892s"},{"start_seconds":2899,"text":"adding more venues as well so whenever you're sending an intent and you're saying hey I want to you know load up on let's say sovereign right the solvers can be like cool I'll buy it on NASDAQ.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2899s"},{"start_seconds":2910,"text":"I'll tokenize it and I bring it to your wallet. Right? So, you don't actually need to have immediate onchain exchange available. You can actually do this in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2910s"},{"start_seconds":2917,"text":"real time. Similarly, you know, Quantis or other assets, maybe you don't have immediate liquidity now, but as you're creating this demand, right, more and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2917s"},{"start_seconds":2926,"text":"more solvers who may be taking different position, different approach to trading can come in online and start providing this liquidity, right? So you're kind of opening up more and more different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2926s"},{"start_seconds":2934,"text":"options of how these different venues the strategies can be aggregated in one place and then next step is yeah going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2934s"},{"start_seconds":2942,"text":"full on you know natural language intent you know build me uh you know new skyscraper in New York right and it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2942s"},{"start_seconds":2948,"text":"like okay cool you know subcontracted to some sub agents who need to buy you know the whatever the height credits and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2948s"},{"start_seconds":2955,"text":"whatnot get the land etc right but like you can start seeing kind of this is like truly market of markets that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2955s"},{"start_seconds":2963,"text":"know aggregates any type of kind of activity trading but also just like generally willing reality into uh into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2963s"},{"start_seconds":2971,"text":"real like willing things into reality. I I think more and more people and agents are starting to realize this vision. I mean, Bellagi was just walking outside","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2971s"},{"start_seconds":2979,"text":"the hall. You know, there's some very special people that you've been able to bring together with Near. How have you been able to coordinate so much intellectual capital, so much, you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2979s"},{"start_seconds":2988,"text":"physical capital, labor, agentic and human? How have you been able to structure Near in such a way that it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2988s"},{"start_seconds":2995,"text":"become this shelling point for for so much uh value?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=2995s"},{"start_seconds":3000,"text":"I mean, there's been a few things. one is uh especially kind of coming as layer one right I always felt it's been really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3000s"},{"start_seconds":3008,"text":"like kind of misaligned this zero sum game of layer ones right where like everybody was like oh you know you should build on me you should build on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3008s"},{"start_seconds":3015,"text":"me so really removing that kind of mindset and kind of becoming like okay well the more we work together with other layer ones with other blockchains","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3015s"},{"start_seconds":3023,"text":"with other apps with other kind of protocols the better we get together right and so kind of really creating this as kind of a Okay, this is a universal liquidity layer.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3023s"},{"start_seconds":3032,"text":"Let's actually get on it everyone.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3032s"},{"start_seconds":3034,"text":"And then on the other side, obviously, you know, partnering with you guys, partnering with more uh kind of folks across the ecosystem who can actually spread the message. I think that's been","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3034s"},{"start_seconds":3042,"text":"historically one of the biggest NEO challenges, right? We've been doing a lot of tech. We've been building a lot of uh kind of products, but like how do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3042s"},{"start_seconds":3049,"text":"we get this in front of more people and you guys launched your own effective like lending and cooking?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3049s"},{"start_seconds":3055,"text":"Yeah, I was talking to Stan backstage by the way, side note, uh about getting aer.com. So I think that's a very logical next step or you know I mean you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3055s"},{"start_seconds":3063,"text":"know you have some vaults on there but the because where we're going is like take my hyperlquid position on.com put it into a borrow against it so I don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3063s"},{"start_seconds":3071,"text":"have to sell etc etc etc. I got stocks on.com put into my a borrow against my stocks lever up. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3071s"},{"start_seconds":3078,"text":"So I mean or or just get cash and have to pay taxes but I will I will uh which is levering up. I I will I will connect you to Stanie. I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3078s"},{"start_seconds":3086,"text":"sure you guys are already talking, but um Quantum Justin Drake puts out a post and I know we have like one or two more minutes. I think we're just a bit of ton on time here. Justin Drake puts out a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3086s"},{"start_seconds":3093,"text":"post saying that you we need to prepare to go bunker mode. Uh Near.com or Near Protocol. Near responds, Near's got X,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3093s"},{"start_seconds":3101,"text":"Y, and Z that is ready for this. Why is Near ready for quantum? What does that mean? What is bunk is Near a bunker? Like are you building bunkers?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3101s"},{"start_seconds":3109,"text":"It's building a bunker first. Okay, I just want to add one layer of this and we don't have I mean you know we talked about the market a little bit but without the prices in particular","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3109s"},{"start_seconds":3117,"text":"everything is read today based on this perceived threat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3117s"},{"start_seconds":3121,"text":"Yeah, just because of Justin not just because just I think and Vitalic just tweeted it's not helping.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3121s"},{"start_seconds":3126,"text":"Look the one thing is that Near seems like it's diverging from everything else potentially because of this perceived","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3126s"},{"start_seconds":3133,"text":"quantum security whereas everything else is this perceived quantum vulnerability.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3133s"},{"start_seconds":3137,"text":"I mean maybe men but how I mean just maybe you can just illustrate like what is the reality of like why this diversion seems to be happening.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3137s"},{"start_seconds":3147,"text":"Yeah. So I mean on a quantum specifically right there's like few things. One is we've designed near with actually quantum in mind in 2018.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3147s"},{"start_seconds":3154,"text":"We're like hey look quantum computers will come at some point cryptography will change. We want to be ready to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3154s"},{"start_seconds":3162,"text":"adjust and update to whatever cryptography we need. And so near accounts have a very kind of specific","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3162s"},{"start_seconds":3169,"text":"account model which allows you to rotate keys to add keys to have multiple keys like to and use different cryptography and specifically I literally wrote that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3169s"},{"start_seconds":3177,"text":"code it takes effectively like 200 lines of code to add a new cryptographic curve right and so earlier this year when kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3177s"},{"start_seconds":3185,"text":"of the like the new algorithm on sol effectively you know recovering private key from a public key uh kind of started dropping we're like okay it's time to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3185s"},{"start_seconds":3194,"text":"start actually shipping postquantum there's now standardized uh implementations as well and so we launched the first effectively the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3194s"},{"start_seconds":3201,"text":"lithium which is the LDSA cryptographic curve on near it went mainet I think uh July and so you can anyone individually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3201s"},{"start_seconds":3209,"text":"right now can effectively update their account without moving any assets without needing to like you know withdraw from walts pay taxes do any of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3209s"},{"start_seconds":3218,"text":"this thing right you can literally just update the keys to be postquantum right now like on Meteor wallet it's literally one button, right? So that is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3218s"},{"start_seconds":3227,"text":"massive change because you know the alternative is you need to bunker mode, you need to like figure out a new way to derive keys, you need to manage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3227s"},{"start_seconds":3234,"text":"everything like it it requires a lot of extra sophistication to do that. And so that's a step one. We have a whole like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3234s"},{"start_seconds":3241,"text":"multiple steps program to add more and more other uh systems as well as well as other cryptography for people who want to use uh different but MLDDSA right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3241s"},{"start_seconds":3250,"text":"for for clarity that's the one that's been used across the whole internet.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3250s"},{"start_seconds":3253,"text":"Okay. like the Chrome browser that you use right now, they already updated to it. This is effectly a standard in the real world and Near has this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3253s"},{"start_seconds":3261,"text":"and so Near we use this for cryptography and so you're saying that going to Near and putting your assets on Near is at least as good if not better as migrating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3261s"},{"start_seconds":3269,"text":"your keys and going bunker mode. Uh so you you what you can do with factor is like you can have your near account uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3269s"},{"start_seconds":3277,"text":"with the postquantum uh cryptography holding it and the new account can then hold ass hold assets on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3277s"},{"start_seconds":3286,"text":"Ethereum, Bitcoin and other chain and you don't need to worry about it but we will we will need to like deal with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3286s"},{"start_seconds":3294,"text":"all of them. Yeah. But if you guys get in trouble aren't I getting in trouble if you know what I mean? Like if my assets are on Ethereum through Near and something happens to Ethereum, it's not like you guys are going to help me.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3294s"},{"start_seconds":3303,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. I mean if if if something happens to Ethereum, but you know, you don't need to worry like if you're holding it through near teams are going to take care of this,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3303s"},{"start_seconds":3311,"text":"right? And so we going to like black dragon mode and as as you know we're building a lot of systems both on like cryptography on smart contracts and on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3311s"},{"start_seconds":3319,"text":"proactive analysis with shield to actually detect when things are happening. Right. So like our point is like look you can hold things through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3319s"},{"start_seconds":3327,"text":"like near.com. You can hold all this assets, you can trade, you can be private as well, which by the way hides your public key. There's nothing to derive even I mean even for non","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3327s"},{"start_seconds":3336,"text":"postquantum but for postquantum too. And now then we can go and work with all the chains like we just had a podcast with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3336s"},{"start_seconds":3343,"text":"Justin grilling him on cryptography making and kind of what they're going to use. So we actually make sure that we secure everybody's assets on as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3343s"},{"start_seconds":3351,"text":"Yeah. Ilia, thanks for your time, man. Great event. Uh thanks for everything.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3351s"},{"start_seconds":3355,"text":"It's been a pleasure and uh let's keep let's keep growing, man. It's this is just the beginning. So, all right. Thank you guys. Thank you.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3355s"},{"start_seconds":3362,"text":"All right, guys.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3362s"},{"start_seconds":3364,"text":"Just put your assets in your.com and let the gigabrains over there quantum problem for you.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3364s"},{"start_seconds":3370,"text":"It's not the conference. It's uh the quantum is much more important than the conference. Um and these guys are absolutely tackling it and helping out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3370s"},{"start_seconds":3377,"text":"the entire industry. I'm going to step out and have a fantastic segment with Tom.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3377s"},{"start_seconds":3382,"text":"That's going to be an issue. Let's take a quick standby and talk about that one there, Mr. Glen. Be right back.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3382s"},{"start_seconds":3386,"text":"Be right back. So, this is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3386s"},{"start_seconds":3400,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3400s"},{"start_seconds":3410,"text":"Last one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3410s"},{"start_seconds":3455,"text":"We get we get know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3455s"},{"start_seconds":3461,"text":"we get we get deep know we We get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3461s"},{"start_seconds":3469,"text":"know we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3469s"},{"start_seconds":3478,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3478s"},{"start_seconds":3491,"text":"we get you We get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3491s"},{"start_seconds":3511,"text":"know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3511s"},{"start_seconds":3515,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3515s"},{"start_seconds":3521,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3521s"},{"start_seconds":3555,"text":"All righty, guys. First time on the show. We got Tom Schmidt from Dragonfly.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3555s"},{"start_seconds":3558,"text":"Uh, one of my favorite hosts of a podcast or I guess guest of the podcast.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3558s"},{"start_seconds":3563,"text":"We should do more crossover episodes like this. You guys on top. Well, I mean, look, I've been getting Pearl Pilled. I got I I met Evan Vaness, uh, the OG Ethereum guy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3563s"},{"start_seconds":3573,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. I actually I I uh ran into him the first time in like many years at one of these Pearl events, and I was like, \"What are you doing here?\" and he's like, you know, I'm just I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3573s"},{"start_seconds":3580,"text":"getting I've been getting pearl pills and so there is some interesting crossover. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3580s"},{"start_seconds":3584,"text":"What is Pearl? Cuz I still need to get pearl pills.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3584s"},{"start_seconds":3586,"text":"Yeah. I was with him in in Houston and I like there's this whole like simplicity AI money and I'm like all right. And he's like, \"Dude, Andy, go in.\" I'm like, \"Okay,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3586s"},{"start_seconds":3594,"text":"that's an awful pitch. He should not be pitching it like that.\" I think I think the idea is very simple. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3594s"},{"start_seconds":3599,"text":"As you have probably seen, most of the large US-based Bitcoin miners are switching over to doing AI inference, Russo, Cororeweave, etc. Um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3599s"},{"start_seconds":3608,"text":"this obviously is not great for Bitcoin because you have less hash rate. Um and so the question is is there a way to sort of solve these at the same time of you can get you know use this hash rate,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3608s"},{"start_seconds":3616,"text":"use this inference but also use it to secure a network. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3616s"},{"start_seconds":3619,"text":"Pearl. Um the idea is you can still do the matrix multiplication that underlies any sort of transformerbased LLM and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3619s"},{"start_seconds":3627,"text":"then in doing so you also have a sort of Bitcoin style proof of work system. You get it for free. It's sort of like a sidecar. So you sort of throw a little","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3627s"},{"start_seconds":3634,"text":"bit of uh this like randomness in what you're absurd. Yeah. Well, the reason is have you seen this Arthur Hayes flops thing?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3634s"},{"start_seconds":3642,"text":"Yeah. I um because it sounds a lot like that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3642s"},{"start_seconds":3644,"text":"I think I think it's a pro fork.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3644s"},{"start_seconds":3646,"text":"No, no, you know, no disrespect to Arthur. I I think flop is a kind of a fork copycat of of Pearl and it has he has this whole payment thing which I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3646s"},{"start_seconds":3654,"text":"don't really think is is like also no disrespect. I think I look at the Pearl team and I look at whoever's running Flop and I'm like you know one is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3654s"},{"start_seconds":3662,"text":"really world-class researchers some really novel ideas and uh you I love Arthur and I think he's a very good promoter and so that's how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3662s"},{"start_seconds":3669,"text":"proof of uh proof of verifiable work is this kind of breakthrough concept effectively of taking unused GPU power for AI for AI uh inference and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3669s"},{"start_seconds":3678,"text":"leveraging that to uh earn yields. It's like, oh, you're an inference provider for any data center. You're getting X","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3678s"},{"start_seconds":3685,"text":"for your dollars. You know, you're putting Y or you're getting X in and you're getting Y out. You know, why not get Y times 1.1x or 1.2x. Yes. It's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3685s"},{"start_seconds":3693,"text":"literally free money. It's So, what's the catch here? Like, yeah. Um, I think one point to clarify on on Pearl, which I think a lot of people maybe misunderstand, they think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3693s"},{"start_seconds":3702,"text":"of it in the same vein people think of render or um Yeah. Yeah. AOS of it's decentralized inference. It's a network","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3702s"},{"start_seconds":3710,"text":"that you can ping to go run some workload. A bunch of computers run it and they send you back the the results. That's not what's happening with Pearl.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3710s"},{"start_seconds":3716,"text":"Pearl is the largest Neoclouds in the US. People like Together, people like Fireworks, they own, you know, obviously obviously data centers and they have their own customers who are paying them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3716s"},{"start_seconds":3725,"text":"to run openweight models for them um or their own models. Um they will run these models that uh also run Pearl. Um and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3725s"},{"start_seconds":3733,"text":"then their their main customers are just paying them the same way they pay to run them to run Quen or GLM through 5.3 whatever it might actually be. So it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3733s"},{"start_seconds":3740,"text":"um you know the normal people who are already paying for AI inference and this thing sort of running in this side car. So very very small amount of overhead. They use usually use quantized models.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3740s"},{"start_seconds":3749,"text":"So you know slightly worse performance than using you know the largest version of some of these open weight models. Um and there's a little bit more compute required maybe 2%. But the upside is if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3749s"},{"start_seconds":3758,"text":"you're an infra provider you get PRL as a result. Um, it's it's a block reward. You can also use it to be for transfer. It's the same way you use Bitcoin.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3758s"},{"start_seconds":3766,"text":"I was telling Ilia that we need to get this on Near Intense and Near.com because I mean, look at what happened to Quantis over the last 24. I mean, the thing's up like ungodly amounts and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3766s"},{"start_seconds":3773,"text":"nobody like everyone like I heard about it and I was like, I got to buy it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3773s"},{"start_seconds":3777,"text":"And then I was like, I got to go and safe trade.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3777s"},{"start_seconds":3779,"text":"What the hell is safe trade? It's like I'm Is that a centralized exchange?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3779s"},{"start_seconds":3783,"text":"You know, I I know they're also one of the larger uh uh Pearl venues and I believe so. It's It's always a little bit unclear. I think especially like some of the hybrid dexes I'm like what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3783s"},{"start_seconds":3792,"text":"is really hybrid about this just a sex but it's bullish though it's hard to buy it's bullish you think about what are the catalysts I I think certainly like being a liquid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3792s"},{"start_seconds":3801,"text":"cuts both ways but I think of it more who's doing something novel who's who's doing trying to solve really big meaty problems what are the problems you know facing the crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3801s"},{"start_seconds":3809,"text":"industry today is a sort of you know security hash rate issue what is one of the big trends people like to bet on um hey AI inference loads going up over","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3809s"},{"start_seconds":3817,"text":"time and I I like this because it's already using the sort of proven demand of uh you know these these neoclouds.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3817s"},{"start_seconds":3823,"text":"It's not saying hey switch your workload over to this thing that's going to be worse and more expensive and kind of jankier.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3823s"},{"start_seconds":3828,"text":"Correct. That was the issue with those decentralized inference providers or cloud providers that they'd be like oh use and it's like but it's not as good.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3828s"},{"start_seconds":3834,"text":"It's not as smart and and it's like it's quote unquote decentralized. It's like well we're kind of missing the point here.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3834s"},{"start_seconds":3840,"text":"Yes. Yes. Agreed. Um and then when you look at the actual like revenue it's like no one's actually paying to use this thing versus you know together and fireworks are you know gigantic multi-billion dollar startups. The thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3840s"},{"start_seconds":3848,"text":"about Pearl that gets me and and I'm going to run um and Rob's got a couple minutes here is um the community is like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3848s"},{"start_seconds":3855,"text":"this ravenous like Evan was like yo you need to buy this and just like come back in 10 years 20 years and I'm like dude like what are you saying right now? So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3855s"},{"start_seconds":3863,"text":"like talk to us about like that kind of mentality of like why the community is so strong.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3863s"},{"start_seconds":3867,"text":"Um it's I think people are have been hungry for new R&D breakthroughs for a very long time. Um all right. Oh, he's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3867s"},{"start_seconds":3876,"text":"he's listening, but he's he's on the move. Dude, you're mobile. No need to apologize. Um, and I think I don't know.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3876s"},{"start_seconds":3882,"text":"I think that people see a lot of copy paste. They see a lot of the same ideas over and over and over again. And very rarely do you see people trying to solve a big problem with a new breakthrough.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3882s"},{"start_seconds":3890,"text":"And I think that's that's one of the interesting things about Pearl. It's also interesting to me, in my experience, it's been um a mix of many different communities. You have this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3890s"},{"start_seconds":3896,"text":"kind of uh core, you know, uh uh uh cryptographer, you know, R&D community.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3896s"},{"start_seconds":3901,"text":"You have a lot of like SF tech people. I went to one of their launch events and it was people from OpenAI and Anthropic and uh you know cognition were all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3901s"},{"start_seconds":3909,"text":"attending this this event and you have people like me who are coming out of crypto coming out coming out of the venture community and so it's kind of this very interesting blend and uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3909s"},{"start_seconds":3917,"text":"don't know still very early but um you know I think we like to bet on on things that are trying to do something novel cool Tom thanks so much man uh as you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3917s"},{"start_seconds":3925,"text":"can tell we're uh running and and gutting here and uh let's do more let's do more of these crossovers it's a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3925s"},{"start_seconds":3932,"text":"of fun guys, hit uh quick standby and we'll be right back.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3932s"},{"start_seconds":3936,"text":"Cool. Sweet. Thanks for having as we try to parse out what is real and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3936s"},{"start_seconds":3947,"text":"what isn't real. Ellie, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you uh as always. Thanks for being here. And yeah, everyone is very curious. I think right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3947s"},{"start_seconds":3955,"text":"now they're trying to determine uh what is real about quantum, what is not, how does privacy fit into this? do we need to migrate our coins? Are we really at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3955s"},{"start_seconds":3963,"text":"risk right now? Maybe you can just give us a sense of how you've approached the quantum problem up till now and then we'll we'll kind of dig into some of more of the nuts and bolts.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3963s"},{"start_seconds":3971,"text":"Yeah. So, even when I was working on the cryptography that ended up being Zcash, so I was one of the founding scientists and a co-founder of it and I'm very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3971s"},{"start_seconds":3979,"text":"proud of that. I was thinking about or we were thinking about uh what do we do uh with uh quantum and how do we build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3979s"},{"start_seconds":3987,"text":"safer uh cryptographic ZK protocols that give you privacy and also quantum resistance. And the good news is that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3987s"},{"start_seconds":3995,"text":"since 2018 uh we already know how to solve this problem. So another paper that I wrote back then an academic paper","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=3995s"},{"start_seconds":4002,"text":"um called ZK Starks actually has in the title you know postquantum zero knowledge. So that technology exists and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4002s"},{"start_seconds":4009,"text":"by now it's uh in production used in starknet uh you know for scaling a whole bunch of uh decentralized exchanges and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4009s"},{"start_seconds":4018,"text":"has privacy in it. Now whether we need to migrate I think the short answer is yes. We need to prepare migrating all of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4018s"},{"start_seconds":4025,"text":"our technology to things that are postquantum secure. And in this respect, I want to say that at Starknet, we will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4025s"},{"start_seconds":4033,"text":"prepare things to be a safe haven. And if that means Starknet needs to become an L1 because it cannot rely on the security of other things. That's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4033s"},{"start_seconds":4041,"text":"certainly something that we are actively considering. And what is it about an L1 that differentiates it, right? because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4041s"},{"start_seconds":4048,"text":"Ethereum is is really doing a ton of research into this quantum problem, trying to help, you know, move us into a quantum resistant and secure paradigm.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4048s"},{"start_seconds":4057,"text":"And so, what is it about taking an L2 and turning it into L1 that can make it more quantum resistant than Ethereum is already planning to do?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4057s"},{"start_seconds":4065,"text":"Well, where Ethereum is heading is where Starknet is now. So, Ethereum is talking about moving to ZK Starks, moving to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4065s"},{"start_seconds":4073,"text":"new VM that is ZK Stark friendly. All of that is following the footsteps of Starknet. It exists today. Now, right now, we are reliant on the security of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4073s"},{"start_seconds":4083,"text":"Ethereum and many parts of it are not quantum safe. So, what it would mean if we had to move and become an L1, it would mean to replace basically that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4083s"},{"start_seconds":4091,"text":"layer with a quantum resistant layer that has only, you know, hashes, maybe proof of work is quantum resistant, allows postquantum signatures, all of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4091s"},{"start_seconds":4100,"text":"that stuff can be built. And why would we need to move that? It's very simple.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4100s"},{"start_seconds":4104,"text":"if Ethereum does not move fast enough and I'm not sure it will. Like that's the basic question.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4104s"},{"start_seconds":4108,"text":"Wow. Okay. And so despite Ethereum's work and going towards a more quantum resistant future, it may not be moving fast enough. You say you you say it is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4108s"},{"start_seconds":4117,"text":"now time to migrate. What is it about the ZK Stark paper that you wrote back in 2018 that makes it quantum resistance? Give us a little bit more of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4117s"},{"start_seconds":4125,"text":"a technical answer so that we can really understand what is going on. So um every time uh you know breaking cryptography","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4125s"},{"start_seconds":4133,"text":"is a little bit like solving a maze and you know finding the exit and quantum physics allows you to explore many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4133s"},{"start_seconds":4142,"text":"different paths of the maze at the same time. It's a little bit like this shreddinger's cat where you can be in many different positions and then sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4142s"},{"start_seconds":4149,"text":"of uh magically you end up only in one universe where it's the exit. So that's what quantum computers do to things like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4149s"},{"start_seconds":4158,"text":"elliptic curves. But there are other kinds of mazes like the kinds that ZK starks are built on called hash functions which don't have this nice","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4158s"},{"start_seconds":4165,"text":"structure. And for them quantum computers just cannot help you break the system or find an easy exit. So that is why zk starks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4165s"},{"start_seconds":4173,"text":"are safer uh from a quantum point of view.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4173s"},{"start_seconds":4177,"text":"Just just to make sure Zcash is that system. It is uh hashbased and it is this sort of maze that a quantum computer could not break.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4177s"},{"start_seconds":4187,"text":"I'm not involved in Zcash these days anymore. I think many parts of it are not yet uh that kind of cryptography. I think it still relies too much on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4187s"},{"start_seconds":4196,"text":"older kind of cryptography which is elliptic curve cryptography. What I was referring to was Starknet and ZK Starks which are uh that technology is postquantum secure.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4196s"},{"start_seconds":4205,"text":"It is.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4205s"},{"start_seconds":4206,"text":"Yeah. And is is that a requirement Ellie now? Like do you feel that that is a requirement for I think it's something that we should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4206s"},{"start_seconds":4214,"text":"really get our act together on on really adopting quickly to postquantum secure things because the bigger threat is not the quantum computer. It's the super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4214s"},{"start_seconds":4222,"text":"intelligence in math of classical computers and like what might happen tomorrow is like some of these systems could just be broken","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4222s"},{"start_seconds":4229,"text":"right even before Qday we could reach that with AI.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4229s"},{"start_seconds":4232,"text":"Yes. And this would be far worse because it means that now keys can be just compromised by anyone, not just by folks that have a quantum.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4232s"},{"start_seconds":4240,"text":"And how important is it that we do this at the L1 level versus turning something that's already existing into what we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4240s"},{"start_seconds":4247,"text":"might call quantum resistant or quantum secure? How possible is it to upgrade an existing system versus build something from scratch?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4247s"},{"start_seconds":4254,"text":"Both of them are very hard, but like it's somewhat easier to build something from scratch from scratch. And other things that we're considering building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4254s"},{"start_seconds":4262,"text":"is also sort of safe havens in the following sense like allowing people to save a spot for the eventuality of like a quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4262s"},{"start_seconds":4270,"text":"break. So there are ways for you to do on Bitcoin on Ethereum things that would make you a little bit safer if there's a catastrophe and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4270s"},{"start_seconds":4279,"text":"sort of move on to a safer place if you need.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4279s"},{"start_seconds":4282,"text":"So this isn't a black and white paradigm. There are some gray areas where we can make ourselves a little bit more safe without going entirely quantum secure.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4282s"},{"start_seconds":4290,"text":"Yes, there's we're entering a period of extreme uncertainty and I think it's all about hedging and preparing for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4290s"},{"start_seconds":4297,"text":"future and preparing for the unknown unknowns. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4297s"},{"start_seconds":4301,"text":"Um I have a similar question. Um when you I don't know if you had a chance to look at that Justin Drake tweet today or post today. Uh I I know you you know you guys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4301s"},{"start_seconds":4308,"text":"spoke on the Ethereum front there. Um, when you think about the kind of call to action being like, hey, don't have exposed public keys, like do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4308s"},{"start_seconds":4317,"text":"what you can to get your public keys in order that they're not exposed and like kind of sitting ducks. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4317s"},{"start_seconds":4322,"text":"Like I don't know if the question is like how urgent or like how real? But I think like the bigger idea is like is that all that it's going to take from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4322s"},{"start_seconds":4329,"text":"the user perspective? No. Like what do I need to know as a user? How do I as a user prepare, you know? And the answer might be bridge to starkware, right? or you know bridge to stark net but how do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4329s"},{"start_seconds":4337,"text":"I kind of prepare from a user perspective uh with my assets across different chains etc. I do think the the the the shortest answer is does involve","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4337s"},{"start_seconds":4347,"text":"Starknet just because um we're probably the most crypto agile and most uh you know advanced when it comes to postquantum cryptography. But the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4347s"},{"start_seconds":4354,"text":"problem is that if you're on a blockchain where all the other keys gets get exposed and you know the smart contracts are compromised and everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4354s"},{"start_seconds":4361,"text":"like that then it doesn't really help if you know you are uh you know you sort of uh how do you say rotated your keys or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4361s"},{"start_seconds":4369,"text":"something that doesn't help. You need to be in a place where everything is uh quantum ready and quant and and crypto agile which means you can move very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4369s"},{"start_seconds":4376,"text":"quickly to adopt the very the most advanced technology that would be the safest and and frankly that's why we built Starknet. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4376s"},{"start_seconds":4385,"text":"are are there solutions that users can take now uh that would prepare us for super intelligence on classical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4385s"},{"start_seconds":4392,"text":"computers and how does that differ from the kind of path that we might take to prepare against a quantum threat? I think that unfortunately uh it has to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4392s"},{"start_seconds":4401,"text":"something on the infrastructure layer like you can't I mean you could hedge a little bit or like move to safe grounds.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4401s"},{"start_seconds":4408,"text":"I mentioned starknet but like you know still for users it's mostly like screaming out to uh developers and and uh to adopt safer technologies.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4408s"},{"start_seconds":4419,"text":"So Justin Drake says enter it's time to enter bunker mode and you're saying that's maybe not sufficient. I just tweeted I retweeted his and I said","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4419s"},{"start_seconds":4428,"text":"Starknet is that ZK bunker. ZK Starks are the ZK bunker that they are moving towards.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4428s"},{"start_seconds":4434,"text":"I got one more. Do you think Bitcoin is safe? No, obviously not.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4434s"},{"start_seconds":4437,"text":"And do you think Bitcoin's monetary properties of being a store of value asset, something that you want to be able to put in a vault underground, bury","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4437s"},{"start_seconds":4445,"text":"it, come back to it in 10 years, and know that it's not going to be, let's call it, fucked with. Uh like gold has that property, right? Do you think Bitcoin's lost that property to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4445s"},{"start_seconds":4453,"text":"certain extent? Well, um, right now it's that big threat and I think part of the price action reflects that. But the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4453s"},{"start_seconds":4462,"text":"way what we're going to try and do is again offer safe havens and means for Bitcoiners to reserve a spot for a case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4462s"},{"start_seconds":4469,"text":"where you know things are compromised and we'll try to do that for as many chains as we can on top of Starknet so there's a safe haven. Imagine that sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4469s"},{"start_seconds":4477,"text":"of uh Bitcoin, you know, the infrastructure goes down for a while until the, you know, everyone finally agrees to do a soft fork that will allow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4477s"},{"start_seconds":4485,"text":"for postquantum security. So, you would want uh some system where you could sort of reserve a spot, be there while things are being fixed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4485s"},{"start_seconds":4493,"text":"and then go back there. So, a little bit like uh you know, nuclear bunker. So, we're building that on Stark. Yeah. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4493s"},{"start_seconds":4499,"text":"And so with that lens, you you know Robbie had asked this right about like is it better to kind of start fresh or uh you know change or you know adapt","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4499s"},{"start_seconds":4508,"text":"Quantis you know is putting on this event.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4508s"},{"start_seconds":4511,"text":"I find it hard to like I'm happy that that that this team has came out. It sounds great on paper. The people here are fantastic but I you know I'm not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4511s"},{"start_seconds":4520,"text":"even nearly as technical as you are let alone even to the level of understanding what is quantum resistant or not. So, I find it hard to like understand like,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4520s"},{"start_seconds":4527,"text":"you know, how legitimate is a new company that's, you know, not even not just them, just like anyone that says they're quantum persistent or quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4527s"},{"start_seconds":4534,"text":"ready. I just I'm like, okay, like how do I know? And what I came to find out from speaking with them last night and others is that there's this inevitable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4534s"},{"start_seconds":4543,"text":"impossibility of like you never actually really know. Like you can work and work and work and work and be like the most quantum resistant today, but tomorrow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4543s"},{"start_seconds":4551,"text":"you could not be enough. Is that like the right way to frame these kind of companies that are like building these products for this kind of postquantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4551s"},{"start_seconds":4559,"text":"world? Is it really just like they they've done by the standards that the NSA sets out that there's governmental standards for this technology? You have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4559s"},{"start_seconds":4567,"text":"those stamps of approval, but even still at that point, you know, it's still kind of like there's always that inevitability or possibility.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4567s"},{"start_seconds":4573,"text":"I think um crypto agility is the most important thing. right? Being, you know, being on an infrastructure and working","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4573s"},{"start_seconds":4581,"text":"with teams that, you know, can move very fast, know their shit when it comes to cryptography and math and can adapt","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4581s"},{"start_seconds":4588,"text":"quickly. Um, and I I believe Quantis is a very strong team. You know, Near is strong, Zash is strong.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4588s"},{"start_seconds":4595,"text":"Obviously, you know, Starknet I think is the best. And um you know, Bitcoin, I love it a lot, but like uh it's really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4595s"},{"start_seconds":4602,"text":"uh the sort of mindset where of sticking the head in the sand and saying, you know, no soft forks for anything, not even OPCAT. I think that's going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4602s"},{"start_seconds":4610,"text":"very very damaging unfortunately. But it's not too late to change course and say there's a problem. You know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4610s"},{"start_seconds":4617,"text":"Houston, there's a situation and let's start doing software.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4617s"},{"start_seconds":4622,"text":"So that agility aspect is the important part then.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4622s"},{"start_seconds":4624,"text":"Yes. Yeah. Have you looked at Quantis technology? What what do they do well? What do they need to improve on?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4624s"},{"start_seconds":4631,"text":"I I met a few of the teams and I'm very impressed with their sort of vision and so on and I know many of the supporters.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4631s"},{"start_seconds":4636,"text":"I now when I run Starkware as CEO, I just don't have enough time to do uh technical diveins, but I think they're a solid team.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4636s"},{"start_seconds":4646,"text":"Okay. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4646s"},{"start_seconds":4647,"text":"Yeah. I mean, I don't have been a while. Yeah. Catch us up on Starknet and catch us up on Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4647s"},{"start_seconds":4653,"text":"Exactly. Because you mentioned how Starknet is one of the it is the ZK bunker. You can go there. You can kind of reserve a spot. It's pretty based.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4653s"},{"start_seconds":4660,"text":"Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are going to see that as a potential escape hack that they can go to kind of wait out the quantum threat whether they're in Bitcoin or something else and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4660s"},{"start_seconds":4668,"text":"reserve that spot to go back to the original chain once that threat has been resolved. What else is possible?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4668s"},{"start_seconds":4674,"text":"Obviously, that's a huge value proposition in and of itself. But while they're in the ZK bunker, what can they do in there? Oh, so one thing that we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4674s"},{"start_seconds":4681,"text":"I'm very proud of that we released is uh so so you know I co-founded Zcash. I'm very proud of it, but like Zcash is sort of the bunker style well you know the sort of uh Bitcoin version of privacy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4681s"},{"start_seconds":4692,"text":"Uh so you can only transfer uh Zcash shielded in it. But what we built on Starknet, it's called Stark 20 is a usable form of privacy that gives you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4692s"},{"start_seconds":4701,"text":"like very good UX and you can do a whole bunch of things. And one product that we just released that I'm very proud of is sort of a VPN for polyarket where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4701s"},{"start_seconds":4709,"text":"basically it's called offmarket. You can access it at offmarket.cx and you can go there and do uh basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4709s"},{"start_seconds":4716,"text":"polyarket trading but you're shielded and it has a very uh simple UX. you can come onto it from any chain from you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4716s"},{"start_seconds":4724,"text":"know your credit cards and so on. So like this VPN layer uh usable privacy is another thing that is enabled on starknet and I'm very proud of.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4724s"},{"start_seconds":4732,"text":"Yeah. So um one of our uh sponsors of the show and just friends that we kind of came to learn about is this company called Zama. This sounds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4732s"},{"start_seconds":4739,"text":"similar in a sense that Zcash is kind of like the store of value privacy but then there's still this race for this in the same way Ethereum was the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4739s"},{"start_seconds":4747,"text":"programmable money for Bitcoin. There's now this race for programmable privacy on chain. Obviously, Near.com does a great job, right, with their actual uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4747s"},{"start_seconds":4754,"text":"kind of like I don't know, call it like a harness almost like an AI harness that you have kind of like your onchain harness uh kind of like a confidential black box on chain. But what you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4754s"},{"start_seconds":4762,"text":"getting at is more of like powering applications in the smart contract space with privacy. And I think that's a very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4762s"},{"start_seconds":4769,"text":"unexplored and a massive tam for the world cuz it's like if smart contracts and onchain finance is going to eat a lot of finance and eat a lot of like you know commerce and things then that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4769s"},{"start_seconds":4778,"text":"privacy element is going to be everywhere as well. There's a huge pie there, right? So, we have that. We have like uh you know, DeFi that is composable. We","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4778s"},{"start_seconds":4785,"text":"have AMMs, uh swaps, things like that that you can do in a shielded manner without like with very good UX. As I said, we have this VPN layer for Poly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4785s"},{"start_seconds":4794,"text":"Market. We're probably going to extend it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4794s"},{"start_seconds":4795,"text":"The VPN layer, that's a good marketing term as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4795s"},{"start_seconds":4798,"text":"Exactly. So, we want to make it exactly as you said like uh uh the version of programmable private money that also happens to be postquantum secure and a safe haven for uh you know, the crypto.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4798s"},{"start_seconds":4808,"text":"question for you on this. So um you know I look at Zama I look at RCM starkware","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4808s"},{"start_seconds":4815,"text":"starket um near intense even to a certain extent and I and I see competition but I also see a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4815s"},{"start_seconds":4822,"text":"collaborative opportunity. So how do you think about integrating kind of these worlds together like you know obviously there's only so many apps apps that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4822s"},{"start_seconds":4829,"text":"doing well there's only so you know so much right now on chain but you know 10 years from now it's going to grow a ton.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4829s"},{"start_seconds":4835,"text":"How do you plan to kind of like like how does Stark Net and Starkware fit in with Near, with Zcash, Zama, like how does there like a because the end goal is privacy on chain, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4835s"},{"start_seconds":4844,"text":"That's what we're trying to build here.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4844s"},{"start_seconds":4846,"text":"Not it's not just one team that's going to tackle it. How do you kind of think about that?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4846s"},{"start_seconds":4848,"text":"So, we we have very good connections obviously to to Zcash, you know, I know Zuko from back in the day when you co-ounded it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4848s"},{"start_seconds":4855,"text":"Um, very friendly also with the Near team. So, Near Intense already um bridges over to uh Starknet. Here's like a cool thing like one of the only places","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4855s"},{"start_seconds":4864,"text":"where you could actually get exposure to uh um predictions on Zcash price is a product that appears only on Stark. It's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4864s"},{"start_seconds":4873,"text":"called Super Vega. You can Google it and like uh sometimes I tweet about my own predictions on Zcash. I've seen them. I've seen $3,500.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4873s"},{"start_seconds":4882,"text":"I went for 5K. You know, I went wild.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4882s"},{"start_seconds":4885,"text":"But my first prediction when it was like around I don't know 500 or 800. I predicted 1,200 by the end of month and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4885s"},{"start_seconds":4892,"text":"I you know that landed. Um so like super Vega is another example of something that exists only on starket allows you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4892s"},{"start_seconds":4899,"text":"basically options trading for retail but uh on things like Zcash lighter, Bitcoin, Ethereum, STRK obviously the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4899s"},{"start_seconds":4906,"text":"the STRK token you can do all of that and um this is the Zcash part for instance is by basically collaboration","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4906s"},{"start_seconds":4914,"text":"with near intense. So you have like and another fun thing is you can actually shield Zcash on Starknet under the STRK","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4914s"},{"start_seconds":4922,"text":"usable privacy uh platform and then you can swap it privately using AMMs and stuff like that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4922s"},{"start_seconds":4928,"text":"We have a saying on the show that's uh a dollar onchain tends to stay onchain and I think about privacy a very similar way. A dollar that's confidential or shielded tends to stay shielded.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4928s"},{"start_seconds":4938,"text":"Yeah. You don't like once you go into near.com in the confidential intents and things, you you're not going back on chain and being like, let let me go out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4938s"},{"start_seconds":4945,"text":"and not be private. It's it's a b it's a it's a luxury, right? Well, it's a luxury currently. It'll be the default soon.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4945s"},{"start_seconds":4952,"text":"We'll see. Yeah. Ellie, thanks so much, man. Really really appreciate it as always. Pleasure to have you on.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4952s"},{"start_seconds":4956,"text":"Yes. It's been too long, so I have to get you on again soon. Thank you. Thanks, Ellie.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4956s"},{"start_seconds":4960,"text":"All righty. Um, guys, I mean, I'm bullish.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4960s"},{"start_seconds":4964,"text":"Yeah, bullish start. I mean, look at that. more secure than many of the other alternatives.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4964s"},{"start_seconds":4969,"text":"I'm glad that there is competitive forces, but I look, I don't think these are as I don't think these are as competitive as we might think. I think of it, look, we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4969s"},{"start_seconds":4977,"text":"in Singapore. There's a massive like capitalist like capital here and it we don't think of like Singapore and Manhattan as competitive with one another.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4977s"},{"start_seconds":4985,"text":"Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4985s"},{"start_seconds":4986,"text":"I think of these as building out the confidential or shielded economy on chain. Yeah. and the dollar that's private, you know, it was very much like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4986s"},{"start_seconds":4994,"text":"an original thesis that we had around Ethereum where like if you had a dollar that went into a base, right, that would ultimately benefit like a dollar that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=4994s"},{"start_seconds":5002,"text":"would go into another L2 like a Starknet, right? And it was very, you know, uh, positive sum. And I think that private, it's not always like that, but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5002s"},{"start_seconds":5009,"text":"I think the privacy economy is like that right now where if you get a net new dollar into one of these confidential applications, it is actually a net new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5009s"},{"start_seconds":5018,"text":"user of liquidity, net new unit of liquidity that could end up flowing potentially into one of these other privacy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5018s"},{"start_seconds":5025,"text":"Guys, on that note, we're doing a $2,49 giveaway. Hopefully Steph in the audience gets it. Uh if you want to just zoom in on the camera here a bit if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5025s"},{"start_seconds":5033,"text":"possible. Uh we're doing a giveaway here. Uh $2,49. I I've I've heard there's been some weird QR code shenanigans in token. So, uh we're you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5033s"},{"start_seconds":5042,"text":"just got to scan the QR code, guys. Uh it takes you to our landing page. Type in your email. Follow us on X. Do whatever you can. Alex is going to walk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5042s"},{"start_seconds":5050,"text":"around the venue, hand these out to people. Um and we're going to make sure. And I think we've got a signed copy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5050s"},{"start_seconds":5056,"text":"You're the Let's get Ellie on the camera here. Ellie, what do we have here? Go ahead. Sit down and what do we have?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5056s"},{"start_seconds":5061,"text":"Look, tell uh tell that camera. Tell us what we got. Uh my book uh tells my story of Zcash.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5061s"},{"start_seconds":5066,"text":"zero knowledge, how I moved from being a mathematician to uh founding well two companies. Um and I just gave a signed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5066s"},{"start_seconds":5073,"text":"copy to both uh Andy and Robbie. So thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thanks Ellie. We'll see you next time.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5073s"},{"start_seconds":5080,"text":"This is an airplane reading October 2026. Dear Robbie, keep hitting it out of the park. Respect Ellie. Keep hitting it out of the park.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5080s"},{"start_seconds":5088,"text":"Respect.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5088s"},{"start_seconds":5089,"text":"My portfolio is out of the park, ladies and gentlemen.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5089s"},{"start_seconds":5091,"text":"Much respect to Ellie Benson. What is Near trading at right now? Near is flying on this news of new quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5091s"},{"start_seconds":5099,"text":"threats. 542 near protocol cracks the top 20.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5099s"},{"start_seconds":5103,"text":"My goat Wake would like to be allowed on the stream. Speak the good gospel of Nearcat. Yeah, Nearcat. He's going to be on the stream. He's going to be on the stream at 3 p.m. Nearcat. Wake is coming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5103s"},{"start_seconds":5110,"text":"on the pod. Nearcat is coming on the pod. Ladies and gentlemen, own at least key 10 QTC. Thank me later, buddy. I own a lot more than that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5110s"},{"start_seconds":5119,"text":"A lot more than that, Rob.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5119s"},{"start_seconds":5120,"text":"Yeah, upwards of 150 right now. You guys heard from Joe. QTC is ready to fly. Oh my goodness. No financial advice.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5120s"},{"start_seconds":5127,"text":"You guys might be hearing about QTC for a long time, but obviously you've got very very technical people that are now coming out of the woodwork and starting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5127s"},{"start_seconds":5134,"text":"to endorse QTC and Quantis. And I think I mean whether it was coordinated this uh this this post from Justin Drake and the Quantis launch, whether that was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5134s"},{"start_seconds":5143,"text":"coordinated or not, it does show you that Quantum is real and people are starting to take it very very seriously.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5143s"},{"start_seconds":5149,"text":"So, I I think this launch couldn't have been better timed and it was an extremely extremely pertinent launch.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5149s"},{"start_seconds":5156,"text":"What What do we have here? What What's going on behind us?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5156s"},{"start_seconds":5158,"text":"We're cooking. We're cooking. We're cooking hard. We're cooking with gas. Uh check your Telegram. Uh my lovely friend. Um we need our next guest in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5158s"},{"start_seconds":5165,"text":"Anakin group chat. Uh guys, I mean, look, the market's down a little bit. Um but we're up. I mean, we're feeling good.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5165s"},{"start_seconds":5172,"text":"Uh we're here at the Quantis Day with Near. I mean, Near's one of the leaders of this entire week, Rob. I mean, look,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5172s"},{"start_seconds":5181,"text":"we called it I think in a way like I was like I put out a tweet and I was like, \"Hey, like I think Near, Quantis, and Zcash are going to be some of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5181s"},{"start_seconds":5189,"text":"biggest winners of this week.\" And frankly, here we are. Yeah. I mean, look, the market is validating some of the things that we've been talking about for a long time. Uh, I think the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5189s"},{"start_seconds":5198,"text":"perceived threat of quantum and the perceived threat of AI are particularly pertinent right now. people are taking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5198s"},{"start_seconds":5205,"text":"them so much more seriously than they had been even over the last recent months. And I think look whether you think this is months, years or decades","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5205s"},{"start_seconds":5214,"text":"away, the fact is that it is a perceived threat and and the market is now in a momentum based paradigm. And I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5214s"},{"start_seconds":5222,"text":"perceived narratives, perceived threats can have as much impact as very real threats to overcome the sense of apathy that we saw for for many months. And so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5222s"},{"start_seconds":5231,"text":"perceived notions are now causing massive impacts on the market.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5231s"},{"start_seconds":5237,"text":"I agree, man. And I mean, look, we have a classic conference pullback. We're not, you know, this is nothing new.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5237s"},{"start_seconds":5244,"text":"We're not worried about it. I like the dynamic. You got like a navy blue suit, but it's black. I got like a fully black.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5244s"},{"start_seconds":5250,"text":"You got a fully black. I got a navy blue.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5250s"},{"start_seconds":5251,"text":"Well, don't worry. You got a whole navy blue. Wait, you have a navy? This is navy. This is the same suit I've been wearing. I thought you I thought this was black.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5251s"},{"start_seconds":5258,"text":"You got your glasses now, dude. I got you another I got you another navy blue suit. Nothing that's not nothing to mad about.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5258s"},{"start_seconds":5264,"text":"Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. Is it arriving today?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5264s"},{"start_seconds":5266,"text":"Tomorrow morning 6:15 a.m. at the airport along with our t-shirts that we're going to be giving away. Be more bullish t-shirts. Be more bullish t-shirts. We're going to be giving away.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5266s"},{"start_seconds":5275,"text":"All right, guys. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back from the near quantum and privacy day. That boy Joe's fired up. See you guys in a second.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5275s"},{"start_seconds":5282,"text":"QTC 158. No way.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5282s"},{"start_seconds":5286,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5286s"},{"start_seconds":5300,"text":"last.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5300s"},{"start_seconds":5310,"text":"Last last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5310s"},{"start_seconds":5320,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5320s"},{"start_seconds":5353,"text":"We get we get know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5353s"},{"start_seconds":5359,"text":"we get we get know we get know we get deep we get deep know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5359s"},{"start_seconds":5368,"text":"deep know we get deep we get You know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5368s"},{"start_seconds":5377,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5377s"},{"start_seconds":5385,"text":"we get we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5385s"},{"start_seconds":5392,"text":"know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5392s"},{"start_seconds":5410,"text":"We get deeper.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5410s"},{"start_seconds":5416,"text":"Quick reflections. Who are you and why?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5416s"},{"start_seconds":5419,"text":"And just quick reflections on the launch.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5419s"},{"start_seconds":5420,"text":"And I think where did you come from? I think it's important that people understand like the story as far as what brought you here because people are very very excited. They're very enthralled","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5420s"},{"start_seconds":5428,"text":"around the team and the friends and the network that Quantis is surrounded by.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5428s"},{"start_seconds":5432,"text":"So, help us understand how you arrived to launch Quantis.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5432s"},{"start_seconds":5435,"text":"Well, I mean, so I uh you know, I was a math nerd in school, you know, computer science, AI, quantum computing. I was just so like fascinated with any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5435s"},{"start_seconds":5443,"text":"high-tech stuff. And um you know, I've been for a lot of my career in the sort of more hacker underground. uh you know I was like a sec cyber security","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5443s"},{"start_seconds":5452,"text":"consultant for high netw worth individuals and things like that. So so I don't you know I I'm I don't love getting lots of attention but for this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5452s"},{"start_seconds":5460,"text":"project I had to do it. So so here we are. Um and uh but you know I I got into Bitcoin early on. You know, there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5460s"},{"start_seconds":5468,"text":"whole story of how I heard about it that I probably shouldn't tell online, but um but uh you know, I was too scared to do anything uh with the with the you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5468s"},{"start_seconds":5476,"text":"the dark markets, but I I was fascinated by the technology. And you know, it was the first international wire transfer I ever sent was to to Mount Gaus, you know, and I was like I was a poor grad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5476s"},{"start_seconds":5484,"text":"student. I was like, am I going to lose all my money? And my dad's like, you're definitely going to lose all your money.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5484s"},{"start_seconds":5488,"text":"So, fortunately, this one time he was wrong. But, um but the uh you know, so so I' I've been early to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5488s"},{"start_seconds":5496,"text":"lot of things. sometimes too early. But um but really, you know, th this was I was just placed in a position where I got I basically heard about the quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5496s"},{"start_seconds":5504,"text":"thing before other people did. And uh and you know, I I I'm always ranting to my friends about uh you know, how a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5504s"},{"start_seconds":5512,"text":"blockchain should be built. And you know, one of our investor friends was one day he was just like, you know what, you should like just shut up. Just like go build it yourself if you know so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5512s"},{"start_seconds":5520,"text":"much. And I was just like, you know, it stung a little bit. But uh but yeah, so here we are. I I think there's a lot of people that are now hearing about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5520s"},{"start_seconds":5527,"text":"quantum. You heard it about it very very early but and and started to build this in preparation for it. I mean and but now there's a lot of people that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5527s"},{"start_seconds":5535,"text":"taking it a lot more seriously seriously thinking about migrating coins to what people consider more quantum resistant","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5535s"},{"start_seconds":5542,"text":"technology. But you actually went out and you built that. So help us understand what's real. Do people need to migrate? And why is Quantis the solution?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5542s"},{"start_seconds":5549,"text":"Yeah, just help us understand. Yeah, exactly. What's real about Quantis?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5549s"},{"start_seconds":5552,"text":"Well, okay. So, so, uh, you know, a lot of people hear, you know, oh, quantum computing and, you know, maybe they're like, oh, sci-fi, oh, it's a computer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5552s"},{"start_seconds":5560,"text":"can do anything instantly, and that's not really true. Uh, there's there's, you know, a wide variety of problems where a quantum computer gets a moderate speed up. You know, there's quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5560s"},{"start_seconds":5568,"text":"algorithms that only run on a quantum computer. Uh, but there's a very narrow range of problems where you get an extreme speed up and, uh, you know, it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5568s"},{"start_seconds":5576,"text":"like a laser cutting through butter. And uh unfortunately that happens to include the math problems that we use to secure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5576s"},{"start_seconds":5583,"text":"most public key cryptography today. So it's elliptic curves and RSA. So so those things are going to have to go.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5583s"},{"start_seconds":5589,"text":"Now on exactly what timeline, we don't know. And of course that that depends a lot on uh you know what your risk tolerance is and and and what's uh how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5589s"},{"start_seconds":5597,"text":"how critical those systems are. So, uh, so if you're, you know, if you got a trillion dollar asset secured by elliptic curves, you might want to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5597s"},{"start_seconds":5605,"text":"taking it seriously because, uh, because, you know, with Bitcoin, not only, uh, do you have to implement the technology, which, you know, Bitcoin is notoriously slow at doing that, but you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5605s"},{"start_seconds":5614,"text":"also have to migrate people to the new tech technology. You have to get people to stop using the old thing and start using the new thing. And it's not something where, you know, an engineer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5614s"},{"start_seconds":5622,"text":"can just push a button and force everyone to do it. And uh and so you know to contrast this like signal,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5622s"},{"start_seconds":5629,"text":"private messenger, iMessage, uh Cloudflare, they already went postquantum and and just nobody noticed unless you're like in this, you know. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5629s"},{"start_seconds":5637,"text":"I got I got one more question, man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5637s"},{"start_seconds":5640,"text":"Well, I'm just curious about the QTC token. I think a lot of people are going to see this and they're going to things ripping today.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5640s"},{"start_seconds":5646,"text":"Yeah. They're going to feel they're going to feel they're going to feel caught off sides, right? So, so as you describe the Quantis technology, I think people are going to start to take that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5646s"},{"start_seconds":5653,"text":"seriously. But why is it also important that they take the QTC token seriously?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5653s"},{"start_seconds":5657,"text":"Well, look, I mean, we we like I said, I'm a I'm a Bitcoiner. I uh I I think I've got one-shotted by this idea of fix","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5657s"},{"start_seconds":5665,"text":"the money, fix the world. And so, we tried to take all the good ideas that Bitcoin had and just fix the few small things that that, you know, it just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5665s"},{"start_seconds":5672,"text":"wasn't ready for. Okay. And so uh you know the 21 million coins uh the the focused on just the money use case we're not a smart contract platform and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5672s"},{"start_seconds":5681,"text":"but what about the launch UV sorry intro like the fair launch here like the process there intents your investors like how much overhang is there you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5681s"},{"start_seconds":5690,"text":"just if you can share just very quickly about like how you guys are like what this you know kind of vesting is just give us like the transparent answer as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5690s"},{"start_seconds":5697,"text":"to like why if I buy this I'm not going to get fucked who's going to dump on me how is it being minded Who owns the supply? Like what's going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5697s"},{"start_seconds":5705,"text":"on? That's what I'm getting asked on Telegram right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5705s"},{"start_seconds":5708,"text":"No, these are important question. Super important question. So So we decided to not do a dev tax because it's harder for people to sort of compute how much that's going to how much overhang that is.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5708s"},{"start_seconds":5717,"text":"The uh so we did a premine essentially a premint of uh 27% and that's locked up for a year and then uh and then drips","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5717s"},{"start_seconds":5726,"text":"out linearly over 3 years. So it's a sort of standard Silicon Valley structure in that sense. And uh but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5726s"},{"start_seconds":5733,"text":"the you know it's uh the unlocks are onchain. You can view everything happening and uh and and there was a a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5733s"},{"start_seconds":5740,"text":"small portion that 1% that we we we put into a liquidity bucket so that we could provide liquidity on near intense at the beginning to to avoid a kind of you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5740s"},{"start_seconds":5749,"text":"sometimes in a low liquidity environment like prices can do some really silly things and then people get hurt. So we wanted to have it more you know like appropriately sized. Now obviously it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5749s"},{"start_seconds":5758,"text":"uh you know still it's early days so please guys be you know be smart don't don't uh you know like think about the FTV as well as the market cap you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5758s"},{"start_seconds":5767,"text":"to get a call out. So uh you know and and uh but look it's like some people have more risk tolerance less risk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5767s"},{"start_seconds":5774,"text":"tolerances and just like just just wait and see and tell don't rush into something don't let other people rush you into something. So thanks thanks for your time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5774s"},{"start_seconds":5783,"text":"great event thanks for coming on and uh great launched and uh hope wish you the best man. Thank you. Stay stay quantum proof.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5783s"},{"start_seconds":5790,"text":"All righty guys, we've got Ilia Polosukin. Ilia is here. He's ready to come on. Um, and then we have he's the man of the hour. I mean, we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5790s"},{"start_seconds":5798,"text":"just had Juvie, right, which is kind of the quantum side of the PNQ day, and now we're gonna have Ilia, right? One of the I I I call him one of the founding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5798s"},{"start_seconds":5806,"text":"fathers of AI. I think he truly is. IA, welcome to the show. Uh, founding uncles.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5806s"},{"start_seconds":5811,"text":"Founding uncles of AI. He's the He's He's got two kids. We got this book from uh Ellie about zero knowledge proofs. Alex on our team back there has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5811s"},{"start_seconds":5820,"text":"your plaque uh with the attention is all that you need. that's going to go up in the office in in New York City. Um, great event. Big couple weeks for Near.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5820s"},{"start_seconds":5830,"text":"Um, look, man, you're a humble guy, Ilia. Um, you're you're very smart, very humble. How do you feel about the last like 6 to 8 weeks about Near? I feel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5830s"},{"start_seconds":5838,"text":"like the whole market has woken up to Near. I mean, I've seen Near everywhere.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5838s"},{"start_seconds":5841,"text":"Uh, people are calling it like Zcash is a Bitcoin of this bull market. Near is Ethereum. Like, things are getting crazy quick. Humbly kind of like where do you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5841s"},{"start_seconds":5849,"text":"see things now? Where do you see things going? Where are we at?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5849s"},{"start_seconds":5853,"text":"Yeah, I mean you you know near right we've been building sort of like bull and bear through you know past like what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5853s"},{"start_seconds":5861,"text":"eight years y uh 9 years if you include the AI before that so uh we have a vision the world is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5861s"},{"start_seconds":5868,"text":"changing and we need the decentralized technology we need privacy we need private AI we need private money we need","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5868s"},{"start_seconds":5875,"text":"to unite and really kind of connect not just web 3 but also like rest of the markets and so it's exciting to see more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5875s"},{"start_seconds":5883,"text":"and more people joining. It's obviously like has massive flywheel effects on products. Uh obviously, you know, market price is important because it gives","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5883s"},{"start_seconds":5892,"text":"everyone more resources, attracts more attention and so it's exciting to kind of have all this uh action and we're going to continue turning that into more products, more value.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5892s"},{"start_seconds":5902,"text":"Yeah, man. I mean, I think like the thing that has just become such such so apparent to the market and to me is that I mean, we're here at this Quantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5902s"},{"start_seconds":5910,"text":"Privacy Day with Quantis, right? they just launched their tokens doing exceptionally well. Big congrats to them. Um, you know, the the near intense","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5910s"},{"start_seconds":5919,"text":"uh and the near.com experience, the black box of privacy of trading per swaps, bridging is just immaculate. It's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5919s"},{"start_seconds":5927,"text":"it's so good. Like it is just it is just like Grockbot is my AI harness. Near.com is my is my onchain harness, right? But","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5927s"},{"start_seconds":5935,"text":"extrapolating that, we talked about this last night over some wine in that there is a new world that you guys are getting into where it's like you are becoming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5935s"},{"start_seconds":5942,"text":"the trading venue for the onchain speculative assets of this bull market.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5942s"},{"start_seconds":5947,"text":"Quantis being one and we were talking about that other token, Pearl. I'm just curious how you think about Near Intense as this kind of broader chain abstraction vision that you once had.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5947s"},{"start_seconds":5956,"text":"Now it's coming to fruition. Quant is a fantastic example. There's no centralized exchange listings. You can only buy it on safe trade, but it's it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5956s"},{"start_seconds":5963,"text":"on near intent. It's on near.com. I was swapping into it this morning and last night is easy as hell and there's good liquidity. It happened so fast. Just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5963s"},{"start_seconds":5971,"text":"like talk to us about what that vision is for Near Intense and and Near.com to bootstrap I guess the high quality speculative assets of this next era of this industry.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5971s"},{"start_seconds":5980,"text":"Yeah, I mean so Near Intense kind of the broadest form of vision, right, is like it's a market of markets, right? It's it's effectively this universal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5980s"},{"start_seconds":5988,"text":"aggregator of anyone wanting to trade anything anywhere and being able to do it through kind of like finding the best counter body to do it, right? And I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5988s"},{"start_seconds":5997,"text":"not talking about just crypto. I'm not talking about just physical like digital assets. You know, if you want to order a room in a hotel, if you want to, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=5997s"},{"start_seconds":6005,"text":"know, build a base on Mars, right, there's going to be a counterparty that will be willing to do that, right? You know, Elon Musk is like, \"Okay, cool.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6005s"},{"start_seconds":6012,"text":"I'll do it for, you know, $2 trillion, right?\" So that's a that's a broadest form of vision, right? And we kind of started with like okay chain abstraction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6012s"},{"start_seconds":6019,"text":"is like really first problem that I mean we've been in crypto for a while. This is like the most painful thing you can imagine, right? Then now we just added","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6019s"},{"start_seconds":6027,"text":"stocks, right? So now you're aggregating actually not just crypto venues, you actually now have NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange and we're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6027s"},{"start_seconds":6034,"text":"adding more venues as well. So whenever you're sending an intent and you're saying, \"Hey, I want to, you know, load up on let's say sovereign, right?\" the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6034s"},{"start_seconds":6042,"text":"solvers can be like cool I'll buy it on NASDAQ I'll tokenize it and I bring it to your wallet right so you don't actually need to have immediate onchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6042s"},{"start_seconds":6050,"text":"exchange available you can actually do this in real time similarly you know quantus or other assets maybe you don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6050s"},{"start_seconds":6057,"text":"have immediate liquidity now but as you're creating this demand right more and more solvers who may be taking different position different approach to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6057s"},{"start_seconds":6065,"text":"trading can come in online and start providing this liquidity right so you're kind of opening up more and more different options of how this different venues the strategies can be aggregated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6065s"},{"start_seconds":6074,"text":"in one place and then next step is yeah going full on you know natural language intent you know build me uh you know new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6074s"},{"start_seconds":6082,"text":"skyscraper in New York right and it's like okay cool you know sub subcontracted to some sub agents who need to buy you know the whatever the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6082s"},{"start_seconds":6090,"text":"height credits and whatnot get the land etc right but like you can start seeing kind of this is like truly market of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6090s"},{"start_seconds":6097,"text":"markets that you know aggregates any type of kind of activity trading, but also just like generally willing reality","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6097s"},{"start_seconds":6105,"text":"into uh into real like willing things into reality.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6105s"},{"start_seconds":6108,"text":"I I think more and more people and agents are starting to realize this vision. I mean, Bellagi was just walking outside the hall. You know, there's some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6108s"},{"start_seconds":6116,"text":"very special people that you've been able to bring together with Near how have you been able to coordinate so much intellectual capital, so much, you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6116s"},{"start_seconds":6123,"text":"physical capital, labor, agentic and human. How have you been able to structure near in such a way that it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6123s"},{"start_seconds":6130,"text":"become this shelling point for for so much uh value?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6130s"},{"start_seconds":6135,"text":"I mean there's been few things. One is uh especially kind of coming as layer 1, right? I always felt it's been really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6135s"},{"start_seconds":6143,"text":"like kind of misaligned this zero sum game of layer ones, right? Where like everybody was like, oh, you know, you should build on me, you should build on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6143s"},{"start_seconds":6151,"text":"me. So really removing that kind of mindset and kind of becoming like, okay, well the more We're back. Hope you guys enjoyed the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6151s"},{"start_seconds":6159,"text":"segment with Ilia. We also had Ellie Benasan. We had Joe from Quantis. We had UV from Quantis. I mean, so we're we're uh certainly running the gauntlet here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6159s"},{"start_seconds":6168,"text":"at Privacy and Quantum Day. Just got off a panel with Hunter Horesley and Christa Lynch from Bitwise and Gayscale thinking about the investment thesis in quantum.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6168s"},{"start_seconds":6177,"text":"You know, those guys are more on the investor side. We've got Alex Prudin uh here that we're going to talk to more on the tech itself. Uh, I mean, Alex,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6177s"},{"start_seconds":6186,"text":"you're you're the man when it comes to this quantum stuff. Uh, you were at Alio. Uh, you left there. Now you're at Project 11. And, you know, you're kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6186s"},{"start_seconds":6195,"text":"of taking this quantum uh, perspective and experience that you've had productizing it and and making that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6195s"},{"start_seconds":6201,"text":"available for chains that want to enable quantum resistance. And it was very similar to the panel that I just had","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6201s"},{"start_seconds":6208,"text":"with Hunter and Christa thinking about you know how investable quantum resistant or not quantum resistant chains are. So I just want to pose","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6208s"},{"start_seconds":6217,"text":"actually the same question to you before we really dig into the tech.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6217s"},{"start_seconds":6220,"text":"Are nonquantum resistant chains investable?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6220s"},{"start_seconds":6224,"text":"I I think decreasingly so. I mean the reality is like kind of the inverse of this statement is that you know we talk about cryptography and postquantum cryptography but in a few years all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6224s"},{"start_seconds":6233,"text":"cryptography will be postquantum cryptography because otherwise it would be insecure. So, um, look, I think the window is closing fast and this is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6233s"},{"start_seconds":6240,"text":"opportunity, by the way, that folks like Quantis are capitalizing on, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6240s"},{"start_seconds":6243,"text":"Because, you know, for and I', you know, I think last time I was on your show was 6 months ago, paper day, Google posted their big paper like since then, everyone has caught up that this has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6243s"},{"start_seconds":6251,"text":"kind of been a threat, but there's still ecosystems that are lagging and don't really even have a plan. And this is where Quantis, you know, and and and Near and Zcash and a lot of these folks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6251s"},{"start_seconds":6260,"text":"that are putting forward plans, that's where they're stepping into the gap and they see an opportunity in the market, quite honestly. And I think it's pretty smart of them to take advantage of it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6260s"},{"start_seconds":6266,"text":"Absolutely. And on on a day like today, NER is green, Quantis is green, everything else is red. So, I think the market is taking this seriously. Um the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6266s"},{"start_seconds":6274,"text":"the thing that and we'll get into Quantis' tech and what makes a chain quantum resistant and these kinds of things and what what you advise chains to do. What I'm curious about is your reaction to this post by Justin Drake.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6274s"},{"start_seconds":6286,"text":"It's closing in on 5 million impressions. So, it feels like it sort of escaped our cryptonative bubble and is now entering the mainstream, whether","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6286s"},{"start_seconds":6295,"text":"that be mainstream AI or just, you know, kind of tech enjoyers. They're starting to really think about, you know, what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6295s"},{"start_seconds":6302,"text":"security looks like and whether we need to enter bunker mode and rotate some of these keys. How seriously should we be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6302s"},{"start_seconds":6309,"text":"thinking about the quantum threat? I I take it, you're going to say, very seriously, but is it time to do something about it? like actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6309s"},{"start_seconds":6317,"text":"migrate tokens and keys or is it time to just start thinking about doing something? I mean it it's so I guess it depends on so it's time to start doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6317s"},{"start_seconds":6325,"text":"something it sort of depends on like what are we doing right and who is doing the thing but I think Justin Drake you know someone we work with very closely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6325s"},{"start_seconds":6332,"text":"at project 11 so not only do we adi do we advisory stuff but you know strong points our digital asset custody product that we announced two days ago um we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6332s"},{"start_seconds":6340,"text":"want to support postquantum chains right so Quantis is on there Zcash is on there and you know we'll be supporting Ethereum soon too so look I think every","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6340s"},{"start_seconds":6347,"text":"chain has to have a plan they just they have to I mean I I think this point like you just need an answer to the question what what happens if a quantum computer comes because you look at you know the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6347s"},{"start_seconds":6356,"text":"progress that the quantum space has made and by the way I think the most telling example of how there's being progress is that institutions like Google","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6356s"},{"start_seconds":6364,"text":"and the big quantum computing companies are self censoring they're not publishing results actually Google had a funny quote they just announced their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6364s"},{"start_seconds":6371,"text":"new AI model and they were like we sped up a certain quantum algorithm by 40% using our new AI model they didn't even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6371s"},{"start_seconds":6379,"text":"say which one but it was obvious viously shores algorithm is the only one that is really even practical to be you know apply AI applied to so it's like you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6379s"},{"start_seconds":6387,"text":"getting the censorship and you know from our internal sources at some of these companies we hear this too they're like the government is not letting us post stuff and so this is the issue and I think this is sort of what Justin is getting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6387s"},{"start_seconds":6396,"text":"at right there's a couple unknown unknowns here one is when is quantum coming yeah that's kind of I mean look it's coming for sure we don't know exactly when but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6396s"},{"start_seconds":6404,"text":"it could be any you know when when it happens we may not know the day of it may only be after a hack or after some satoshi coins move the other unknown unknown known as AI, right? And this was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6404s"},{"start_seconds":6412,"text":"I think the main like a big part of Justin's post came on the heels of OpenAI is like we just solved 240 math, you know, hard math problems.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6412s"},{"start_seconds":6420,"text":"By the way, what was conspicuously absent on that list? Any math problem relating to cryptography.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6420s"},{"start_seconds":6425,"text":"So where are all those results? Well, you can just kind of put two and two together. Either they were told not to look at those or they were told not to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6425s"},{"start_seconds":6433,"text":"publish them. So we're left to wonder, okay, well, what what is actually the what is the implication of AI on advanced cryptography, right? And so I think both for both reasons it is time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6433s"},{"start_seconds":6442,"text":"for the pace the space to prepare and I think there needs to be a completely new paradigm for how we approach security and cryptography and how it's integrated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6442s"},{"start_seconds":6450,"text":"into blockchains. So one response from the industry to that point has been let's pace the frontier. Let's slow down","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6450s"},{"start_seconds":6457,"text":"the the the AI models that we're releasing to the public so that we're not breaking things as quickly. I have a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6457s"},{"start_seconds":6465,"text":"feeling that is not an acceptable answer to you. So when you think about, you know, how we are approaching the quantum problem and how we're approaching even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6465s"},{"start_seconds":6474,"text":"the classical computers that are now getting super intelligence, how should we be thinking about this?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6474s"},{"start_seconds":6479,"text":"Look, I think I I mean my my answer to that prompt of like, oh, we'll just slow everything down. We'll control it, you know, and control the pace. I just don't think is satisfying as a sec from a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6479s"},{"start_seconds":6487,"text":"security standpoint because like that presumes that the United States government first off has awareness of where the frontier is across all of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6487s"},{"start_seconds":6494,"text":"these places and and there's nowhere else where the frontier is getting pushed forward. But I think it's like it's a very questionable assumption that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6494s"},{"start_seconds":6502,"text":"the US is more than 6 to 12 months ahead on both quantum and AI. And by the way, we've seen this in AI multiple times.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6502s"},{"start_seconds":6510,"text":"Everyone's like, \"Oh, new open AI model dropped.\" And then what happens three months later? Oh, Quen shows up and it's got the same benchmark. So, it's like,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6510s"},{"start_seconds":6517,"text":"you know, sure, we could start pacing ourselves, but then are we just going to be behind? And then, of course, like, does China care about cryptography or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6517s"},{"start_seconds":6525,"text":"about breaking it? Are they going to restrict? I don't know. And so, again, as a user, as a holder, as an institution about these digital assets, like we need to be concerned about our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6525s"},{"start_seconds":6534,"text":"security at the end of the day. We can't count on government regulation to solve this problem. I think from a security point of view. The other thing is the reality like what is the government","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6534s"},{"start_seconds":6543,"text":"doing? The government is telling people to migrate to postquantum cryptography.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6543s"},{"start_seconds":6547,"text":"That's why by the way like Microsoft, Google, Cloudflare have all announced they're going to be postquantum ready by 2029.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6547s"},{"start_seconds":6556,"text":"So in 3 years like that's around actually I think I think Ethereum's end of 2029 is their road map. But there are very few crypto projects that even have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6556s"},{"start_seconds":6563,"text":"a road map with a tangible date. And so this is going back to you prompted a question earlier. Hey when do we start?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6563s"},{"start_seconds":6568,"text":"The answer is now because it's going to take longer than we expect. Look, go back to the, you know, in ancient history when ETH one transitioned to ETH2. I remember in the early days of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6568s"},{"start_seconds":6576,"text":"that, the Tal was like, \"Oh, it'll be a year.\" And then what, three years later or four, it finally activated. This is going to take longer. We don't want to rush it. That' be the worst thing to do.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6576s"},{"start_seconds":6583,"text":"And and I and I think we just have to take our matters into our own hands in terms of security. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6583s"},{"start_seconds":6588,"text":"And and so, you know, if teams are unsure of what to do, right, you're one of the first people that they call.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6588s"},{"start_seconds":6594,"text":"They're like, \"Hey, Alex, you think a lot about this? You go on podcasts. you talk about this a lot. What should we do? So when a team calls you up and they say, \"Hey, Alex, like we need to be quantum ready.\" What do you tell them?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6594s"},{"start_seconds":6605,"text":"Yeah. Look, I think it depends on the context, right? Because the unfortunate reality of postquantum cryptography is that there's not like like like everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6605s"},{"start_seconds":6613,"text":"is hoping that like the the existing solution that we use which is fast, it's small, it's got a bunch of nice features like threshold signatures and ZK and you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6613s"},{"start_seconds":6621,"text":"can do a lot with the elliptic curve signatures we use. Everyone is hoping that out of the ether that will just materialize a postquantum equivalent and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6621s"},{"start_seconds":6628,"text":"this can all be Y2K and you can just flip a switch. But that's not what it looks like right now. The reality is there's a lot of hard trade-offs. And I think Vitalik responded actually to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6628s"},{"start_seconds":6636,"text":"Justin's tra uh uh uh Justin's tweet and was saying like, \"Hey, look, cryptography is not dead, but we probably need to go to only hashbased cryptography because hashes are the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6636s"},{"start_seconds":6645,"text":"safest thing.\" That's great, but the trade-off there is that like look, hashes are big. Like hashbased signatures are big and they're slow. So if you're Salana","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6645s"},{"start_seconds":6653,"text":"that's a you know you might be taking a TPS throughput for example or SUI or any of these high throughput blockchains by the way also the custody solutions you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6653s"},{"start_seconds":6661,"text":"know which is something that we know a fair amount about like they secure they're all based on the security of hardware like hardware security modules and MPC solutions that are entirely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6661s"},{"start_seconds":6670,"text":"built around elliptic curve cryptography. So as a chain you can swap out to some new scheme either like one of the standard ones or one you invent but the issue is still your users's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6670s"},{"start_seconds":6679,"text":"assets are still going to be insecure. I think a great example of this is near who I want to applaud is doing a great job of coming up with a roadmap as a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6679s"},{"start_seconds":6688,"text":"comp as a protocol right and they have a road map and they have account abstraction so they can implement postquantum signatures but people are still haven't moved their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6688s"},{"start_seconds":6696,"text":"funds yet right and institutions haven't moved yet and because you know even though there's consumer wallets there's not institutional options for people to actually secure their funds so this is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6696s"},{"start_seconds":6704,"text":"multi-step process so the biggest thing I say is start now the second thing I say is like consider the context there's a couple different cryptography solutions you should do but more than","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6704s"},{"start_seconds":6711,"text":"anything you should have an option and so start immediately on something.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6711s"},{"start_seconds":6715,"text":"Yeah. Abs. Absolutely. And so one of the teams that called you up was Quantis, right? And so they're kind of the queue in the privacy and quantum day. Um again","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6715s"},{"start_seconds":6724,"text":"they've got a hell of a team and they've been able to build a great network around this idea. A lot of people are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6724s"},{"start_seconds":6731,"text":"coming out and endorsing them and supporting them. And so I think the you know social and intellectual capital is there but you've taken a look at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6731s"},{"start_seconds":6740,"text":"tech what is underneath the hood how quantum secure is it? Yeah, it's quantum secure this. So the biggest the most important biggest thing is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6740s"},{"start_seconds":6748,"text":"signatures, right? So signatures are how we authorize transactions on chain. So any any like you know Ethereum transaction or Bitcoin transaction is a is a is a is a signature ultimately.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6748s"},{"start_seconds":6756,"text":"Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6756s"},{"start_seconds":6756,"text":"So Quantis implements MLDDSA which is one of the NIST standardized postquantum signature schemes and yeah so so they so they implement that on chain. That's the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6756s"},{"start_seconds":6765,"text":"authorization mechanism for payment and that right there is postquantum. That's is that's basically like the US government's gold star recommendation for postquantum algorithms, right? And","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6765s"},{"start_seconds":6773,"text":"so they've implemented that you know and I think they're starting out you know with focusing on just basically store value use case but ultimately expanding in the smart contracts look when the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6773s"},{"start_seconds":6782,"text":"tech as the tech evolves I'm sure there'll be more things to evaluate but as a starting point again like step one make sure the asset is postquantum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6782s"},{"start_seconds":6789,"text":"secure boom and I think quantis meets that bar and again as you pointed out the team is solid and I think you know quite like I said they're taking advantage of this gap in the market","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6789s"},{"start_seconds":6797,"text":"where existing incumbents are sitting on their hunches and being like oh we've already won so we don't have to like upgrade our tech ever which is a dangerous assumption to make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6797s"},{"start_seconds":6804,"text":"and you know one of the things that I think Quantis has working for it is hindsight like they can now build on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6804s"},{"start_seconds":6811,"text":"shoulders of giants and you know it uh utilize all of the intellectual like development that has taken place all of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6811s"},{"start_seconds":6818,"text":"that software all of that they can use that and then launch fresh with a new solution and leapfrog a lot of the technical solutions that are out there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6818s"},{"start_seconds":6827,"text":"how different right so I guess there's a couple questions here I mean Quantis did this at the L1 level a lot other L1s are, you know, potentially looking at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6827s"},{"start_seconds":6835,"text":"upgrading, but then you also have like rappers and like layers on top that can potentially add these solutions.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6835s"},{"start_seconds":6843,"text":"It, you know, ver if it if you go and you look at launching a new L1, upgrading an existing L1 or layering on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6843s"},{"start_seconds":6852,"text":"quantum solutions out of those three, maybe just rank them like from most to least secure.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6852s"},{"start_seconds":6856,"text":"Oh, yeah. I mean, starting fresh is the most secure. If you're just security, if you're if like what is okay like how do you get the most percent of your assets","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6856s"},{"start_seconds":6864,"text":"to be secure? It's obviously best to start fresh with a new L1 because if you're starting fresh with a new algorithm and it's 100% of your assets","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6864s"},{"start_seconds":6871,"text":"are postquantum secure right now. So you know anytime you're layering or anytime you're upgrading you have this problem of migrating right another example of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6871s"},{"start_seconds":6879,"text":"this speaking of quantum and privacy is Zcash, right? Zcash has a shielded pool.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6879s"},{"start_seconds":6883,"text":"Actually in reality it has four shielded pools. There's been four versions of the shielded pool and every single time they upgrade there's some group of people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6883s"},{"start_seconds":6891,"text":"that didn't get the memo and are like left behind in the old one basically right and so as a result like you know even orchard orchard there was a there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6891s"},{"start_seconds":6898,"text":"was the last shielded pool that upgraded Ironwood there was a vulnerability orchard they're like hey move your funds to be lost and there are still people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6898s"},{"start_seconds":6906,"text":"that basically don't you know that don't how to move so look I think like upgrading is a harder path ultimately though I think the question that quantis","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6906s"},{"start_seconds":6913,"text":"faces is like can they get distribution after another. Yeah, let's extend.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6913s"},{"start_seconds":6919,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6919s"},{"start_seconds":6931,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6931s"},{"start_seconds":6941,"text":"Last one. Last one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6941s"},{"start_seconds":6978,"text":"So, as we think about the potential solutions that are out there and what different teams have to choose from,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6978s"},{"start_seconds":6985,"text":"there's there's kind of three potential solutions that I think about. Um, some are possible for all teams, others not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6985s"},{"start_seconds":6992,"text":"so much. you've got like starting fresh, choosing a new L1, and then you've got, you know, layering solutions on top or upgrading the, you know, L1 itself.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=6992s"},{"start_seconds":7003,"text":"Maybe you can just rank like what is most secure, what's least secure, and and you know, where's the mess in the middle?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7003s"},{"start_seconds":7008,"text":"Yeah, there's a lot of dimensions, but I'll just take it from a simple angle like one is like how do we like the, you know, def one definition of security be how can we make sure the most assets are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7008s"},{"start_seconds":7015,"text":"secure on this blockchain, right? So, starting fresh with a postponsecure blockchain is definitely the best in that in that sense, right? because everything is just like by definition is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7015s"},{"start_seconds":7023,"text":"going to be secure from day one you know I I think though like layering on and upgrading are the only options that you have if you're an existing chain right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7023s"},{"start_seconds":7032,"text":"and um you know but ultimately there's this question of how do you incentivize incentivize your users to migrate look I think every chain is different so it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7032s"},{"start_seconds":7041,"text":"impossible to pro provide a broad prescription but I think in places where you can layer on it it's it's a very good solution let me give an example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7041s"},{"start_seconds":7048,"text":"both near and ethereum I think salana as well a lot of smart contract blockchains have this concept of account abstraction which I think is really clever and is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7048s"},{"start_seconds":7055,"text":"going to come in handy in exactly this moment where the authorization logic sits in a smart contract and isn't tied to the blockchain. So this is kind of to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7055s"},{"start_seconds":7064,"text":"your point around a layering solution where like wallets and custody solutions can add support for various postquantum algorithms without needing to wait for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7064s"},{"start_seconds":7071,"text":"the protocol teams to upgrade. And I think this is a misconception a lot of folks in the industry have where it's like, oh, we all have to wait for like the blockchain to upgrade. And that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7071s"},{"start_seconds":7079,"text":"not true in every case, right? But ultimately, I think the question for any postquantum native L1 like Quantis, you know, they've obviously got to go and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7079s"},{"start_seconds":7086,"text":"get distribution faster than these chains can upgrade, right? Ultimately though, like anyone who doesn't upgrade is doomed to not, you know, persist into the future at the end of the day.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7086s"},{"start_seconds":7097,"text":"Um, you mentioned Zcash. Uh, we've looked at this. We've had Mert on the show. We've had several people come on and kind of talk us through the way that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7097s"},{"start_seconds":7104,"text":"Zcash is quantum resistant. Maybe it's not quantum secure, but it's got some components there. I I I think I remember","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7104s"},{"start_seconds":7113,"text":"hearing that, you know, not until we upgrade to this Tachon upgrade do we really get a lot of quantum benefits.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7113s"},{"start_seconds":7119,"text":"Maybe you can just help illustrate like where is Zcash right now and where is it going?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7119s"},{"start_seconds":7123,"text":"I think I think last time we were on the show, you asked me about Zcash. I got a lot of feedback from folks in Zcash about how the the quantum question. And I've learned a lot since then. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7123s"},{"start_seconds":7130,"text":"hopefully this is satisfying to them. Um look, so first off, I think Zcash has one really great thing going for it in terms of quantum and that's privacy. And","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7130s"},{"start_seconds":7137,"text":"why is it a good thing? You you would think, hey, why are these two things related? Well, you know, when everyone talks about quantum, the first thing they say, what's going to happen to Satoshi's coins? Why do they say that?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7137s"},{"start_seconds":7145,"text":"Because I can see Satoshi's coins. I know where they are. I can point to the ledger. Where are they? I know it's Satoshi. These are these are the coins that a quantum computer will get. The nice thing about having a privacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7145s"},{"start_seconds":7153,"text":"preserving blockchain like Zcash is I you can't point to it on a ledger, right? So in some sense the first layer of defense is privacy which is great. In","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7153s"},{"start_seconds":7162,"text":"addition to that you know the the so Zcash you know uh had the orchard pool which is a/ shield pool. They just upgraded to Ironwood. Ironwood brings a bunch of privacy benefits but in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7162s"},{"start_seconds":7170,"text":"addition they have basically a mechanism to have a postquantum recovery. Right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7170s"},{"start_seconds":7176,"text":"So they've already built in an escape hatch in the event a quantum computer shows up and people need to move and they need to move in a way that isn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7176s"},{"start_seconds":7183,"text":"going to be compromised by the quantum computer. Right? So those two things are true right now. Privacy exists on Zcash obviously, but also the Ironwood pool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7183s"},{"start_seconds":7191,"text":"has this escape hatch. And so that's honestly I would say 95% more than most blockchains have. Um you know look to as you point out it's not perfect though at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7191s"},{"start_seconds":7199,"text":"the end of the day the proof system underneath Ironwood is still vulnerable to a quantum attack or inflating the supply etc. Um you know but Tachon as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7199s"},{"start_seconds":7208,"text":"you pointed out and there's many teams in the Zcash ecosystem working on this like they're they're leaning forward and ultimately hoping to ship this postquin version. And I I don't know what the latest is, but I know they're working","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7208s"},{"start_seconds":7216,"text":"very hard on prioritizing that, which again, I I I really applaud. I think they're showing what being proactive looks like. And I think the other great thing about Zcash is it's not like it's a terribly centralized community.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7216s"},{"start_seconds":7226,"text":"There's a bunch of teams, some of which coordinate, some of which don't. And I think this this is a good example of what Bitcoin, I think, should look to.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7226s"},{"start_seconds":7232,"text":"And I know any Bitcoiner watching this will probably hate that I'm referencing a not Bitcoin coin as an inspiration for Bitcoin, but you know ultimately like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7232s"},{"start_seconds":7239,"text":"there's it's not we don't need to have a you know it doesn't need to always be some centralized effort like the community can step up and proactively do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7239s"},{"start_seconds":7246,"text":"this and I think it's an example for other chance to follow.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7246s"},{"start_seconds":7249,"text":"Yeah, absolutely. Alex, man, thank you so much. Always a pleasure having you especially on days like today when we have, you know, a renowned interest in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7249s"},{"start_seconds":7257,"text":"the quantum conversation. Uh we're going to hit a quick standby. We'll be right back with our next guest. Little bit of a different conversation. We're gonna be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7257s"},{"start_seconds":7266,"text":"talking about Nearcat. So guys, don't go anywhere. This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7266s"},{"start_seconds":7281,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7281s"},{"start_seconds":7291,"text":"Last one. Last one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7291s"},{"start_seconds":7306,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7306s"},{"start_seconds":7337,"text":"We get we get we get we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7337s"},{"start_seconds":7346,"text":"know we get deep know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7346s"},{"start_seconds":7355,"text":"we get deep we get deep know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7355s"},{"start_seconds":7361,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7361s"},{"start_seconds":7366,"text":"We get We get deep. We get deep. We get We get We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7366s"},{"start_seconds":7376,"text":"You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7376s"},{"start_seconds":7394,"text":"We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7394s"},{"start_seconds":7397,"text":"We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7397s"},{"start_seconds":7403,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7403s"},{"start_seconds":7457,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7457s"},{"start_seconds":7463,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7463s"},{"start_seconds":7469,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep know we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7469s"},{"start_seconds":7478,"text":"know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7478s"},{"start_seconds":7487,"text":"we get we get deep we get deep we get yo yo yo what's going on guys this is it with the rollup we're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7487s"},{"start_seconds":7496,"text":"patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have most are people trading What are people investing in? How much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7496s"},{"start_seconds":7503,"text":"do people actually budget? We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just loaded.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7503s"},{"start_seconds":7515,"text":"There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets. We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7515s"},{"start_seconds":7577,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. We know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7577s"},{"start_seconds":7583,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7583s"},{"start_seconds":7589,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7589s"},{"start_seconds":7595,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7595s"},{"start_seconds":7601,"text":"You know, we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7601s"},{"start_seconds":7607,"text":"We get we get deep. We get deep. We get we get we get deep,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7607s"},{"start_seconds":7616,"text":"you know. We get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7616s"},{"start_seconds":7631,"text":"We get We get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7631s"},{"start_seconds":7637,"text":"We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7637s"},{"start_seconds":7643,"text":"We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7643s"},{"start_seconds":7660,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7660s"},{"start_seconds":7665,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7665s"},{"start_seconds":7676,"text":"The last one last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7676s"},{"start_seconds":7726,"text":"We get deep. We get we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7726s"},{"start_seconds":7732,"text":"Get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7732s"},{"start_seconds":7741,"text":"know we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7741s"},{"start_seconds":7750,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7750s"},{"start_seconds":7759,"text":"get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7759s"},{"start_seconds":7762,"text":"We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7762s"},{"start_seconds":7765,"text":"You know, we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7765s"},{"start_seconds":7783,"text":"we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7783s"},{"start_seconds":7792,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7792s"},{"start_seconds":7829,"text":"ready as I'll ever be.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7829s"},{"start_seconds":7832,"text":"We're back. We're live. And we are here with Wake, the uh founder, creator, chief architect,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7832s"},{"start_seconds":7839,"text":"boss, the the excuse me, mob boss.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7839s"},{"start_seconds":7842,"text":"Mob boss of Nearcat of Nearcat. Mhm.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7842s"},{"start_seconds":7846,"text":"So, wake, you know, people claim that we're in this institutional era of crypto. People say we need to start taking ourselves more seriously.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7846s"},{"start_seconds":7854,"text":"Couldn't agree less.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7854s"},{"start_seconds":7856,"text":"Tell me, tell me more. Why is it important to keep having fun, keep up with the vibes, keep up with the memes, and ultimately create new cat?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7856s"},{"start_seconds":7865,"text":"It's the most important thing we can do as an industry is have fun.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7865s"},{"start_seconds":7869,"text":"Um, if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7869s"},{"start_seconds":7871,"text":"Correct. That's the only way to onboard young people, people my age. Um, I don't think young people don't care about the tech. They don't care about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7871s"},{"start_seconds":7880,"text":"the institutions and they don't want to put on a suit. They want to have fun.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7880s"},{"start_seconds":7882,"text":"They want to be online and they want to hang out with their friends and talk about talk about fun things and share memes. I grew up on memes.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7882s"},{"start_seconds":7890,"text":"I love it. I fucking love it. And so what what So you grew up on memes? So what were you doing before finding Nearcat? before finding Nearcat. Um,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7890s"},{"start_seconds":7897,"text":"well, I've been trading memes for the past four or five years now. So, you were born in the trenches?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7897s"},{"start_seconds":7902,"text":"I was born in the trenches. It's what I do. It's what I love. Did you have some big wins? I did have some big wins. Did you have some big losses? Oh, some huge losses.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7902s"},{"start_seconds":7910,"text":"What What was your biggest win?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7910s"},{"start_seconds":7913,"text":"Okay. My biggest win was an old coin. It was called ticker goo.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7913s"},{"start_seconds":7918,"text":"And it was a silly goose with little red boots.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7918s"},{"start_seconds":7921,"text":"How much money did you did you make on goo? um like 350K fucking between that and like another","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7921s"},{"start_seconds":7929,"text":"coin called Pigeon that launched around the same time that was a derivative of it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7929s"},{"start_seconds":7932,"text":"This guy is freshly doxed as of today and he just told us that he made 350 bands and the fucking stream went down. Are you fucking kidding me?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7932s"},{"start_seconds":7944,"text":"What?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7944s"},{"start_seconds":7947,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7947s"},{"start_seconds":7961,"text":"Last one. Last one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=7961s"},{"start_seconds":8013,"text":"We get deep. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8013s"},{"start_seconds":8019,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. We know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8019s"},{"start_seconds":8025,"text":"We know. We get deep. We get deep. Know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8025s"},{"start_seconds":8031,"text":"Know we get deep. We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8031s"},{"start_seconds":8039,"text":"We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8039s"},{"start_seconds":8043,"text":"We get we get deep. We get deep. We get we get deep,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8043s"},{"start_seconds":8052,"text":"you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8052s"},{"start_seconds":8070,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8070s"},{"start_seconds":8079,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8079s"},{"start_seconds":8117,"text":"Okay. Wake uh founder of New York just told us that his biggest win was ticker goo. Made 350 bands.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8117s"},{"start_seconds":8125,"text":"Yeah. Uh that was it was a coin that was run up by like rookie XBT and uh his little squad. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8125s"},{"start_seconds":8133,"text":"Um this is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8133s"},{"start_seconds":8144,"text":"Heat. Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8144s"},{"start_seconds":8155,"text":"On the last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8155s"},{"start_seconds":8162,"text":"last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8162s"},{"start_seconds":8205,"text":"We get we get know we get we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8205s"},{"start_seconds":8212,"text":"We get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8212s"},{"start_seconds":8223,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8223s"},{"start_seconds":8232,"text":"know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8232s"},{"start_seconds":8241,"text":"We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8241s"},{"start_seconds":8243,"text":"You know, we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8243s"},{"start_seconds":8262,"text":"We get We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8262s"},{"start_seconds":8271,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8271s"},{"start_seconds":8325,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8325s"},{"start_seconds":8331,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8331s"},{"start_seconds":8337,"text":"You know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8337s"},{"start_seconds":8346,"text":"know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8346s"},{"start_seconds":8354,"text":"we get we get deep we get deep we get yo yo yo what's going on guys this is it with the rollup we're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8354s"},{"start_seconds":8363,"text":"patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that you guys have knows. What are people trading? What are people investing in?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8363s"},{"start_seconds":8371,"text":"How much do people actually budget?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8371s"},{"start_seconds":8373,"text":"We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8373s"},{"start_seconds":8382,"text":"loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8382s"},{"start_seconds":8387,"text":"We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8387s"},{"start_seconds":8396,"text":"All right, we're back. stream's not going to go down anymore and uh we have no possibility of getting rugged. So with that being said, you know, we were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8396s"},{"start_seconds":8404,"text":"talking about how near is up incredibly today. Uh you know 550 plus quantis is doing incredibly well. It's like closing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8404s"},{"start_seconds":8412,"text":"in on 200 bucks. Nearcat up 30%. The entire rest of the market red. So people are starting to realize that like there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8412s"},{"start_seconds":8420,"text":"is some some real critical momentum happening here. Um, and we were just saying how like very soon people are going to start to think like, you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8420s"},{"start_seconds":8427,"text":"near is too expensive. I'm going to go buy something else.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8427s"},{"start_seconds":8431,"text":"Near is so cheap. That's what people need to understand. It's so cheap right now. Not even in the top 10. Embarrassingly cheap, dare I say. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8431s"},{"start_seconds":8439,"text":"Should be should be $20.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8439s"},{"start_seconds":8441,"text":"And people should be taking you seriously because you've had some massive wins. Uh, just before the stream crapped out, you were talking to us about how uh you ran up 350 bands. Um,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8441s"},{"start_seconds":8449,"text":"but I wanted to ask you, you know, when that happens, a lot of time big wins are a company with big losses. So, maybe you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8449s"},{"start_seconds":8457,"text":"could tell us about the biggest loss that you had in the trenches. My biggest loss in the trenches is a token called","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8457s"},{"start_seconds":8464,"text":"1000X. I believe it's still live. Um, and I don't know what they're doing with it. I haven't checked it in a while since I lost, but it's a coin that's it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8464s"},{"start_seconds":8471,"text":"was a podcast token actually, believe it or not. Um, they never let me on, unfortunately. But uh it's a thousand X by Avi and Jonah. A lot of people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8471s"},{"start_seconds":8480,"text":"probably know them. Uh but full disclosure, that's that's my fault. Like I don't blame them. I take risks. I take my own risk.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8480s"},{"start_seconds":8488,"text":"How much did you lose on a 1000x?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8488s"},{"start_seconds":8490,"text":"[snorts]","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8490s"},{"start_seconds":8491,"text":"Over $200,000. Like pushing like 250 I think.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8491s"},{"start_seconds":8496,"text":"250k down. You think you were the biggest?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8496s"},{"start_seconds":8500,"text":"I'm probably the single biggest like in one one or two wallets. Easily the biggest loser on that coin. But that's again my own fault. And so why I mean what happened? Like how do you lose 200?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8500s"},{"start_seconds":8510,"text":"You just bought the top and it just did it did it happen very quickly.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8510s"},{"start_seconds":8514,"text":"No, it happened very very slowly. That's the real problem. I held that coin for over a year. Wow.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8514s"},{"start_seconds":8519,"text":"Um it just bled out. And it just bled out.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8519s"},{"start_seconds":8521,"text":"And what was the original buying the dips that was there anything attributed to it?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8521s"},{"start_seconds":8527,"text":"Um they just stopped promoting it. like they they didn't promote it for over a year and like they they slowly less and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8527s"},{"start_seconds":8534,"text":"less were talking about and pumping their bags. Pumping my bags at the time. They didn't do a good job. Are you still holding a 1000X? No.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8534s"},{"start_seconds":8542,"text":"Wow. What ultimately like what was going through your mind when you finally press the sale button?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8542s"},{"start_seconds":8547,"text":"Um they announced that they were basically done with it. Done with the pod, right? Yeah. 1000x.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8547s"},{"start_seconds":8552,"text":"Yeah, man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8552s"},{"start_seconds":8555,"text":"Oh boy. But I think well uh I am frustrated that I think they've tried to revive it since then. But nonetheless, I digress. That's that's in the past.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8555s"},{"start_seconds":8566,"text":"Bigger things that I'm focused on right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8566s"},{"start_seconds":8568,"text":"Good. Okay. So now you're focused on Nearcat. Absolutely.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8568s"},{"start_seconds":8571,"text":"Um but you've had tons of experience like you said, massive runins up, massive, you know, uh massive round trips.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8571s"},{"start_seconds":8576,"text":"Round trips. Um but ultimately these, you know, contribute to the lessons that we learn and uh contribute to, you know, where where we find ourselves today.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8576s"},{"start_seconds":8585,"text":"founder of Nearcat. We were just talking about how Near has now created and fostered an ecosystem of tokens, not just Near. Tell us about the lore. Give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8585s"},{"start_seconds":8594,"text":"us the story. Tell us, paint the picture. What is Nearcat? Why is it critically important to Near?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8594s"},{"start_seconds":8601,"text":"Nearcat is very important. So, the original lore is that Nearcat was the original mascot for Near. So, the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8601s"},{"start_seconds":8611,"text":"Nearcat is just a it's a sentry. It watches out for everybody and it helps protect privacy with their little tunnels. There was there was some lore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8611s"},{"start_seconds":8619,"text":"there around why Nearcat was the original mascot for Near. And we did something interesting when we launched Nearcat, which is it's not on Near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8619s"},{"start_seconds":8627,"text":"Chain. It's launched on Salana, which was purposefully done because about a month ago, three weeks ago when we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8627s"},{"start_seconds":8634,"text":"launched, there was no volume on NearChain. Near chain was doing less than a million dollars in 24-hour volume and on memes it was less than $50,000.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8634s"},{"start_seconds":8646,"text":"The way Nearcat is built is it's a reflection token. So it's has a 3% tax on all buys and sells. So our most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8646s"},{"start_seconds":8653,"text":"important metric is volume. That's what pays the near rewards. So holders of Nearcat earn near as rewards. So far we've paid out $2","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8653s"},{"start_seconds":8662,"text":"million worth holders. So 2 million.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8662s"},{"start_seconds":8666,"text":"Wow. Let me just make sure I get the flywheel correct. There the there's a 3% tax on all buys and sells. Correct.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8666s"},{"start_seconds":8672,"text":"Um that tax gets pro it programmatically buys near and distributes it to holders.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8672s"},{"start_seconds":8680,"text":"Correct.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8680s"},{"start_seconds":8680,"text":"Okay. And so you launched this on Salana originally because it had the majority of memecoin volume.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8680s"},{"start_seconds":8688,"text":"Yes. with the intention of onboarding the Salana users to Near and tell the story of Near to a market of people that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8688s"},{"start_seconds":8697,"text":"might not know about it, might not hold and might not know how great the tech is.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8697s"},{"start_seconds":8702,"text":"Wow. And so $2 million you've now distributed to holders of this token, correct?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8702s"},{"start_seconds":8707,"text":"How does it feel to help people and like actually distribute value in this way?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8707s"},{"start_seconds":8713,"text":"Um, it's really cool. It honestly is super fun. Uh, I feel blessed to be in this position and we've got a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8713s"},{"start_seconds":8720,"text":"stuff coming. I We've done two million in revenue and the tokens currently trading at 4 mil. I think that puts us at a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8720s"},{"start_seconds":8727,"text":"2x 2x earnings, which I'm not I'm not saying is cheap, but I am saying it's cheap.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8727s"},{"start_seconds":8734,"text":"You are saying it is onetenth of what the uh S&P uh average PE is. Correct.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8734s"},{"start_seconds":8739,"text":"Okay. And so uh you mentioned how again your biggest win 350K uh was entirely roundt uh from a 1000x maybe not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8739s"},{"start_seconds":8748,"text":"entirely actually based on the numbers that you gave.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8748s"},{"start_seconds":8751,"text":"Uh and so now with Nearcat doing so well it's up 30% today. Is nearcat now your biggest win?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8751s"},{"start_seconds":8758,"text":"It's actually not. So um I hold less supply than a lot of people think. I've got less than 2% of the token. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8758s"},{"start_seconds":8767,"text":"you still even though you have less than 2% of the token, you still the biggest holder evenly distributed. No, I'm not the biggest holder. There's anonymous holders that hold more than me that I don't know.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8767s"},{"start_seconds":8777,"text":"Okay. Um but they're just profiting from the programmatic revenue distribution of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8777s"},{"start_seconds":8785,"text":"how that have earned close to how do you plan on growing the plan on growing the volume and therefore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8785s"},{"start_seconds":8795,"text":"we're doing that by our main we're making a big we're making a big on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8795s"},{"start_seconds":8801,"text":"so we want to be the marketing arena we want to teach the people who are doing hundreds of millions of dollars,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8801s"},{"start_seconds":8809,"text":"billions of dollars in volume trading memes that near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8809s"},{"start_seconds":8819,"text":"do you foresee people, you know, how if there's a prospective buyer out there and they're thinking to themselves, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8819s"},{"start_seconds":8827,"text":"know, should I buy near or should I buy near? What do you tell them? Um I tell them buy both but you earn an average of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8827s"},{"start_seconds":8835,"text":"so far it's between 100 to 250% APR holding near catat in near. So amount in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8835s"},{"start_seconds":8843,"text":"six months if you hold six months to a year if you hold near you might earn the same amount in near.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8843s"},{"start_seconds":8848,"text":"And what did orig like what originally inspired you to say to yourself we're gonna we're going to do this we believe like what what was the light bulb moment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8848s"},{"start_seconds":8857,"text":"for you that you know turned you on to me? So, I saw it was pretty simple. I saw ZCAP was doing a good job promoting Zcash,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8857s"},{"start_seconds":8865,"text":"not even promoting Zcash, but they were doing a good job distributing Zcash to the trenches.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8865s"},{"start_seconds":8872,"text":"And so, it seemed obvious with the connection with Near and how bullish I've been on Near that that someone was going to do it one way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8872s"},{"start_seconds":8880,"text":"or another. And so, I just went and I found Near Cat seems like the best possible lore. It's the original mascot.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8880s"},{"start_seconds":8886,"text":"It is a little tricky. Everyone thinks it's a cat originally, but it's not. It's a mir cat. Not a cat. A cat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8886s"},{"start_seconds":8894,"text":"Wow. That's big news. So, breaking news here today. Mircat is not a cat. Nope. It's a Mircat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8894s"},{"start_seconds":8902,"text":"Correct. This is not another cat coin.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8902s"},{"start_seconds":8904,"text":"Oh my goodness. That's huge. Okay. And so, we have uh real differentiation. Uh just like uh you said, we're we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8904s"},{"start_seconds":8912,"text":"distributing real near to Nearcat holders. Um, you know, there's also like this meta of like pairing things and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8912s"},{"start_seconds":8919,"text":"like, you know, you have tokenized equities paired with meme coins. Maybe we get board seats, right? But there there are real re like dividends that are being paid in these tokenized equities. Is that part of the play here?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8919s"},{"start_seconds":8929,"text":"I have a take on that, which is I actually think it's better to be paired to a top crypto ecosystem token than to be paired to a stock. Stocks are cool.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8929s"},{"start_seconds":8940,"text":"People like stocks, I guess.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8940s"},{"start_seconds":8942,"text":"But I don't know many stocks with the upside that near has my personal opinion.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8942s"},{"start_seconds":8948,"text":"I think there's we're in the crypto space. There's a lot more people that are going to be bullish on the biggest crypto projects than there are that are bullish on the biggest stocks.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8948s"},{"start_seconds":8956,"text":"And so I think the crypto pairing meta uh actually works best when paired with a top ecosystem crypto token rather than a stock. But stock pairings are cool. Okay. I like them.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8956s"},{"start_seconds":8967,"text":"So, so we're going to continue to see the pairing meta live on. Do do you get the feeling that like the trenches are kind of grown up a little bit? You know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8967s"},{"start_seconds":8976,"text":"like it's not just pure blanket like you buy this thing and who knows what happens with it, you know, it's either runs or it doesn't. Now, we're kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8976s"},{"start_seconds":8984,"text":"in the experimentation phase. We're like thinking about doing creative things to maybe like assure some of this value","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8984s"},{"start_seconds":8991,"text":"rather than just pure speculation. Like that has led us to pairing. Um, it feels like a little bit of a market","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8991s"},{"start_seconds":8998,"text":"sophistication or a market maturity event. Do you think the trenches are growing up?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=8998s"},{"start_seconds":9004,"text":"Potentially. I think the trenches are growing up a little bit. And I'm skeptical that I actually think the trenches will always be cyclical in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9004s"},{"start_seconds":9012,"text":"sense that like when markets are going up, when people are making lots of money, it it just gets crazy. And so yes, there's some maturity and um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9012s"},{"start_seconds":9021,"text":"there's new opportunities to play positive sum games, which is what we're trying to do with Nearcat. Um and that is a form of maturity, but I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9021s"},{"start_seconds":9030,"text":"don't know. The trenches are still they're always going to be the trenches.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9030s"},{"start_seconds":9032,"text":"They call it that for Yeah. Yeah. What What do you think about Quantis? Do you think we're going to get a Quant Cat?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9032s"},{"start_seconds":9040,"text":"It's possible. Um I have no clue. That that seems likely.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9040s"},{"start_seconds":9045,"text":"They just need some liquidity on Salana probably. Like where do you draw does everything get a cat? Like where do you draw the line?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9045s"},{"start_seconds":9052,"text":"Um everything might end up getting a cat but I think the differentiation is what you do with it. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9052s"},{"start_seconds":9060,"text":"the differentiator for us is we are going to be the marketing arm for near.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9060s"},{"start_seconds":9065,"text":"We are trying to simplify the near thesis. Okay.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9065s"},{"start_seconds":9069,"text":"Near the best but long attention span they're not going to understand it. I think it needs to be explained in less than two sentences.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9069s"},{"start_seconds":9079,"text":"Ideally, less than five words.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9079s"},{"start_seconds":9082,"text":"Tell us, look into that camera. Tell us the five words that people need to understand.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9082s"},{"start_seconds":9086,"text":"It's four words. It's own everything, reveal nothing. I think that's it. At least that's what we've come up with so far. It's pretty good. Pretty slick.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9086s"},{"start_seconds":9095,"text":"I love it. Wick, you're the man. Thank you. Appreciate it. Nearcat to the moon.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9095s"},{"start_seconds":9099,"text":"Near to the moon. And uh guys, we'll be right back with more Near Cat content. Awesome.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9099s"},{"start_seconds":9107,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9107s"},{"start_seconds":9120,"text":"last.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9120s"},{"start_seconds":9131,"text":"Last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9131s"},{"start_seconds":9174,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. We know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9174s"},{"start_seconds":9180,"text":"We get deep. We get deep know. We get deep know. We get deep. We get deep. Knock.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9180s"},{"start_seconds":9193,"text":"We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9193s"},{"start_seconds":9203,"text":"We get we get deep. We get deep. We get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9203s"},{"start_seconds":9210,"text":"we get deep, you know. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9210s"},{"start_seconds":9231,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9231s"},{"start_seconds":9240,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9240s"},{"start_seconds":9294,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9294s"},{"start_seconds":9300,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9300s"},{"start_seconds":9306,"text":"You know we get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9306s"},{"start_seconds":9312,"text":"know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9312s"},{"start_seconds":9321,"text":"know we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9321s"},{"start_seconds":9327,"text":"yo yo yo what's going on guys? This is itan with the rollup. We're going to be patrolling the streets of New York City","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9327s"},{"start_seconds":9335,"text":"getting answers to the questions that you guys have most. What are people trading? What are people investing in? How much do people actually budget?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9335s"},{"start_seconds":9342,"text":"We're going to have people from all over, all different investment classes, people who are dead broke, people who are dead whales, people who are just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9342s"},{"start_seconds":9351,"text":"loaded. There won't be a mayor or politician to stop us on the streets.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9351s"},{"start_seconds":9356,"text":"We're going to go everywhere. All five burrows. We're taking over the 212.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9356s"},{"start_seconds":9414,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9414s"},{"start_seconds":9420,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9420s"},{"start_seconds":9429,"text":"deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9429s"},{"start_seconds":9438,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9438s"},{"start_seconds":9444,"text":"we get we get deep we get deep we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9444s"},{"start_seconds":9450,"text":"we get You know, we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9450s"},{"start_seconds":9462,"text":"back. Uh Rob's got his hat on. That's how you know we're bullish. Market's not bullish today, but it doesn't really matter. I just had a panel at Token 249 with Trader Main, Ox Kyle, and Dennis.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9462s"},{"start_seconds":9471,"text":"Uh pretty interesting panel. We talked about, you know, what coins to own? You know, are you holding the right coins?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9471s"},{"start_seconds":9476,"text":"So, Dennis, I I must ask you, are you holding the right coins? Great to have you, man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9476s"},{"start_seconds":9481,"text":"Thanks for having me. Uh, yeah, obviously the right coin today is is Quantis. Is Quantis. What are we at? We're at 172 right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9481s"},{"start_seconds":9489,"text":"I think I that was the last time I checked about 20 minutes ago, but let's see. Man, we are flying on Quantis right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9489s"},{"start_seconds":9496,"text":"I saw you 550.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9496s"},{"start_seconds":9497,"text":"I saw you sold your Robin Hood coins to buy Quantis. I did. Last night.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9497s"},{"start_seconds":9503,"text":"Yes. Uh, even two days ago. I I would say middle of the night. Two days ago.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9503s"},{"start_seconds":9508,"text":"And uh yeah, I've been waiting for this thing forever. I mean, the safe trade thing was just not enough for me and now the books are actually there. Do have you tried the near intense?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9508s"},{"start_seconds":9518,"text":"Yeah, I know. I was buying last night. It's smooth.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9518s"},{"start_seconds":9521,"text":"I mean, I kept seeing your post about like, oh, under 100, under 100, and I was like I was in bed last night like very late just like kind of drunk just smashing the buys.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9521s"},{"start_seconds":9529,"text":"Yeah. And you can tell in the literally the charts like I mean I'm not a you know charts are usually a little bit more deceiving, but you can tell how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9529s"},{"start_seconds":9536,"text":"smooth it is. like it's only just people getting filled and there no wicks. We're at 174. Wow. Amazing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9536s"},{"start_seconds":9543,"text":"Yeah, we're at So that's about a billion dollar fully diluted and a $50 million market cap. Um $42 million of trading volume. I mean, this is crazy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9543s"},{"start_seconds":9554,"text":"What's your time horizon here with Quantis?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9554s"},{"start_seconds":9556,"text":"I give it at least uh at least a month with anything with any narrative when it first starts, right? We saw that kind of with Pearl. I think now everyone's Pearl","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9556s"},{"start_seconds":9565,"text":"Pilled probably here. Yeah, it's like pearl purple.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9565s"},{"start_seconds":9567,"text":"Yeah, but not a lot of people are even near intense pill, let alone quantis pill. So, they haven't tried it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9567s"},{"start_seconds":9572,"text":"Yeah, let's see.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9572s"},{"start_seconds":9573,"text":"No, I agree. When you use near.com, it's like wow, you realize like holy shit, it's actually really good.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9573s"},{"start_seconds":9578,"text":"It is. And it's private by default. So, they just turned on like the alpha deposits. I was doing this like sending 10 transactions and each one is a USDC","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9578s"},{"start_seconds":9587,"text":"and then it goes straight into near intense. It's pretty awesome.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9587s"},{"start_seconds":9590,"text":"Yeah. And you can't Yeah, exactly. Like you withdraw from a centralized exchange and it's gone. and they just opened Robin Hood uh chain today.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9590s"},{"start_seconds":9598,"text":"So are you a near bull as well then?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9598s"},{"start_seconds":9600,"text":"I am although Near has had its run for a while. So as long as the the narrative is strong which I think it is AI privacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9600s"},{"start_seconds":9608,"text":"I think Near's got his legs uh it's actually the the full utility play even you know aside from Zcash being that kind of leader in value.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9608s"},{"start_seconds":9616,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. Super bullish.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9616s"},{"start_seconds":9618,"text":"So so you own both So you own currently own Quantis and N little bit of Near. uh more in Quantis.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9618s"},{"start_seconds":9625,"text":"I still have some eco coins like Ria, like the Nice.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9625s"},{"start_seconds":9630,"text":"Yeah, Ria is kind of the main venue for Quantis that they put outside of uh Intense. Yeah. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9630s"},{"start_seconds":9636,"text":"Do you have a target for Quantis?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9636s"},{"start_seconds":9640,"text":"Okay. So, my personal target is thousand, but if we don't get there within the month, I'm out. Obviously, I don't think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9640s"},{"start_seconds":9649,"text":"it'll be anything crazy, but um the FTB will look kind of insane. And at that point, uh, it gets to a whole number. And I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9649s"},{"start_seconds":9657,"text":"don't think they will want it to be like anywhere close to Zcash. So, same supply, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9657s"},{"start_seconds":9661,"text":"Zcash is what, 1300 right now. May maybe we can get to half of Zcash by price. Mhm.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9661s"},{"start_seconds":9669,"text":"And then people will probably think, okay, consider, you know, maybe I just buy Near. Yeah. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9669s"},{"start_seconds":9674,"text":"Makes sense. Uh, what else are you taking a look at these days? Right. There's kind of this rotation play.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9674s"},{"start_seconds":9679,"text":"Near's been leading. Zcash has been leading. privacy and quantum are the leading narratives.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9679s"},{"start_seconds":9684,"text":"What are the what are the other narratives that you think are uh you know pretty pretty important to own these days?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9684s"},{"start_seconds":9689,"text":"I think it's that uh distribution part as well of the launch and the mining portion. So there are way more mining projects out there.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9689s"},{"start_seconds":9699,"text":"Uh I I know you talked about Arthuses project. Um I'm pretty pretty bullish on that. The flop labs. Yeah, the flop labs. You're bullish on flop?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9699s"},{"start_seconds":9706,"text":"I'm bullish on mining it at least.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9706s"},{"start_seconds":9708,"text":"Okay. Yeah, because we are technically still early on that it's like test net, late stage test net of um similar to quantis but a few months ago.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9708s"},{"start_seconds":9717,"text":"So mining hasn't really even started.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9717s"},{"start_seconds":9720,"text":"Yeah, it's time to time to tell your agents to uh to start. And apparently you can mine with just agent interactions, not even GPUs.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9720s"},{"start_seconds":9728,"text":"So where would someone go to mine uh their website? Tell your agent to go on their website. There's literally a landing page step by step","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9728s"},{"start_seconds":9736,"text":"that says like for your agent, give your agent this URL, ask it to mine.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9736s"},{"start_seconds":9739,"text":"Wow. Do you think we're going to get more headless interactions? Like, you know, they have a website. It tells your agent to mine. But I I was listening to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9739s"},{"start_seconds":9747,"text":"Vitalic just a couple of days ago and he was like, you know, we could end up in a world where there are no applications, right? It's just bots streaming quotes to each other.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9747s"},{"start_seconds":9757,"text":"Oh, yeah. Like it's not even just bots. Think of it more like uh just skills. Mhm.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9757s"},{"start_seconds":9762,"text":"Anything is just skills now. Skills and and MCPs, APIs. But now that layer is so much more extracted. You have directly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9762s"},{"start_seconds":9769,"text":"just connectors. You can target Muse to go on there and the Muse just asks you to log in.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9769s"},{"start_seconds":9773,"text":"What does your bot stack look? Your your AI agent.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9773s"},{"start_seconds":9777,"text":"Use Grockot. What's your What's your like content creation and for markets? Like what do you use it for?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9777s"},{"start_seconds":9781,"text":"Grockbot mainly for assistant, EA assistant, live assistant, groceries, planning, looking for stuff. Uh it's like it's my Google now. See, that's what I use Muse for.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9781s"},{"start_seconds":9791,"text":"Muse is a little bit too I don't like the other tabs on it, but it does the same thing. But I I don't I don't want Zuck sending me automated stuff. But Muse is good also.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9791s"},{"start_seconds":9801,"text":"That's free. Like for most people is Grocka is bit more expensive.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9801s"},{"start_seconds":9804,"text":"What I find interesting is that you know Zuckerberg was asked what the monetization strategy for Muse is and he said a portion of the flows like a basis","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9804s"},{"start_seconds":9813,"text":"point on transactions and that feels huge like that. What do you mean like Muse is free? Um most of uh you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9813s"},{"start_seconds":9822,"text":"know Facebook's like stack, Instagram, WhatsApp, like these are all free services, but Instagram they integrate ads. So like primarily Facebook's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9822s"},{"start_seconds":9829,"text":"monetization strategy has been ads, but people have made it explicitly clear they don't like ads in their LLMs. Uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9829s"},{"start_seconds":9836,"text":"whether it's blatant or not, people don't like it interfering with their context. And so if you think back, you know, Zuck had the Libra project in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9836s"},{"start_seconds":9845,"text":"which they were going to launch their own stable coin, right? But now people think that this is sort of a way to revive that without launching their own stable coin. They would just have these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9845s"},{"start_seconds":9854,"text":"agents conduct commerce, whether that be online or on chain. And then they take a portion, they charge a little tax and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9854s"},{"start_seconds":9861,"text":"then you know if you have a billion dollars of agentic commerce that's being done through Muse or Grockbot, Facebook just clips a little basis point off the top and that's a monetization strategy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9861s"},{"start_seconds":9871,"text":"Wow.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9871s"},{"start_seconds":9872,"text":"I would say they're the ones to do that because they're they only go mainly through official connectors. if you plug","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9872s"},{"start_seconds":9879,"text":"it through MCP through APIs, especially like CLI stuff, it's a little bit more complicated and and like Grockbot, Muse, all of it is currently like very dependent on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9879s"},{"start_seconds":9887,"text":"Stripe. So like Stripe spins up these virtual cards. So anytime an agent goes and buys something, it uses like this effect. It like creates a new credit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9887s"},{"start_seconds":9895,"text":"card from scratch, one-time use. So it'll create a credit card, you'll use it one time, and then that credit card number is done, deleted, never to be used again on Stripe link or whatever.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9895s"},{"start_seconds":9904,"text":"And it's all based on Stripe. And I don't I just don't foresee, you know, Elon and Grockbot, Facebook and Muse, like I they're not going to want to just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9904s"},{"start_seconds":9912,"text":"adhere to Stripe's monopoly. They're going to want to eat into that that market share a little bit and take more of that stack for themselves and verticalize","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9912s"},{"start_seconds":9921,"text":"because they're giving away so much potential revenue to Stripe right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9921s"},{"start_seconds":9923,"text":"Yeah, there native things like that. uh like Aerowex I I think it's like meant to give you cards and and spend ability on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9923s"},{"start_seconds":9931,"text":"your agents but sandbox I'm sure like these guys are going to try to go for a comment one of the things I was at the main venue one of the things I heard say when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9931s"},{"start_seconds":9938,"text":"he was on a panel was like look we kind of went through this like enlight this like you know anticipation phase and then this trough of disillusionment where we thought agents were going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9938s"},{"start_seconds":9947,"text":"conducting everything in stable coins and then we're now in this trough of disillusionment where we're kind of like realizing that like virtual cards these credit cards are like that's what the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9947s"},{"start_seconds":9955,"text":"agents are using to do all of this. But then we're going to hit the slope of enlightenment and I think there are going to be stable coins. Like I was at Cyos.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9955s"},{"start_seconds":9964,"text":"The Stripe link process is kind of a pain cuz like you have to approve it and then like sometimes it doesn't happen and then like you got to like Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9964s"},{"start_seconds":9970,"text":"Sometimes you sometimes you have to put in your credit card info into secure forms in Grockbot where actually happen.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9970s"},{"start_seconds":9976,"text":"It's kind of annoying. I've never done I I you know you put it in once into Stripe and then all you do is authorize the Stripe approval and so once you put","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9976s"},{"start_seconds":9985,"text":"it in I think it's one button but so I was at I was at Cyos right and this was last week and I saw Mastercard was there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9985s"},{"start_seconds":9992,"text":"and virtual cards these like one-time use credit cards are the fastest growing business segment in Mastercard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=9992s"},{"start_seconds":10000,"text":"which is I mean they've got a humongous business and this is the fastest growing vertical for them crazy but they still have a stable coin strategy and I and and what the head of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10000s"},{"start_seconds":10009,"text":"stable coins there said was that the stable coin strategy for a payment processor like Mastercard is payer and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10009s"},{"start_seconds":10017,"text":"so these virtual cards from Stripe are pretty much like credit cards but then you're going to get stable coins are going to be like debit cards. They're going to be payer use and then you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10017s"},{"start_seconds":10024,"text":"going to get this payment model where you get like it's kind of like microtransactions where your agent is going to pay the API like per call.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10024s"},{"start_seconds":10033,"text":"that's going to be stable coins cuz you wouldn't spin up a credit card. It would be like a thousand, you know, API calls.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10033s"},{"start_seconds":10040,"text":"You're not going to spin up a credit card for each each one. But these agents do allow you to invert the subscription model where you don't have to pay a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10040s"},{"start_seconds":10048,"text":"monthly subscription cuz that was a convenience thing. You paid them you paid a subscription on a monthly basis so that you didn't get charged every day or every hour, every call. But now you have microtransactions.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10048s"},{"start_seconds":10059,"text":"stable coins, you can pay every time you read a Wall Street Journal article or every time you watch a YouTube video or every time you watch, you know, uh you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10059s"},{"start_seconds":10066,"text":"you call an API that is built for stable coins. That is like a debit card. That is where agents are going to start to use stable coins. And then on these like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10066s"},{"start_seconds":10074,"text":"oneoff things, they'll start still use credit cards for refundability and disputes and these kinds of things. So there's still like a stable coin value","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10074s"},{"start_seconds":10082,"text":"proposition for Aentic Finance. Even though right now we kind of, you know, we thought everything was stable coins. Turns out everything is virtual cards.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10082s"},{"start_seconds":10090,"text":"But in the long run, we're going to get to a point where it's both. It's virtual cards and it's stable coins.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10090s"},{"start_seconds":10096,"text":"That is super interesting and a really good value ad. Like I cannot even manage the kind of subscriptions I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10096s"},{"start_seconds":10103,"text":"have. Like every month I my drop boss scans my subscription list and then tells me, \"Hey, this one you got to cancel it now.\" I do it for the paid subs and the annoying email subs.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10103s"},{"start_seconds":10113,"text":"Crazy. That's going to save me a lot of money. But how do you invest into this, Dennis?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10113s"},{"start_seconds":10116,"text":"How do you kind of position to like like like how do you express who are the biggest winners here?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10116s"},{"start_seconds":10120,"text":"Yeah. How do you express the bullish thesis on aic finances? Is it just I think it's a it's a stable coin companies after well if you're bullish","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10120s"},{"start_seconds":10127,"text":"into that. I mean, uh, you look at what Tedar is investing in. It's it's all agentic payments on stablecoin and if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10127s"},{"start_seconds":10135,"text":"anyone's going to lead the way, it's going to be like Tedar adjacent payment providers. I don't have anything that on that's on my radar,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10135s"},{"start_seconds":10143,"text":"but it's just because Tedar is so selective. Yeah. Interesting.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10143s"},{"start_seconds":10147,"text":"Yeah. No, I mean, I just think that like this trend is going to accelerate and it's like how do you position for that to win?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10147s"},{"start_seconds":10152,"text":"I can't help but think that near is extremely well positioned to capitalize on a gentic finance. you know, like cuz one of the things that I I foresee is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10152s"},{"start_seconds":10160,"text":"like, you know, the virtual cards are going to be great when we're like booking a hotel, we're booking a flight, that kind of thing. But when it's pay or pay per call, I I think these bots are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10160s"},{"start_seconds":10169,"text":"going to end up using each other. And so you're like my agent is going to interact with Andy's agent, it's going to interact with your agent. And once","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10169s"},{"start_seconds":10176,"text":"like your agent is very specialized, we're going to want to pay your agent for services and we're going to pay per use, right? So you're not going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10176s"},{"start_seconds":10184,"text":"charge me a subscription model. I'm going to pay you every time I, you know, get a little service from your agent.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10184s"},{"start_seconds":10190,"text":"And I I I can't help but think that like Near is very well positioned to capitalize on that agent to agent finance.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10190s"},{"start_seconds":10197,"text":"I think they're just starting to uh get deep integration in actual wallets and you plug in that near intense stack, it it's amazing because totally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10197s"},{"start_seconds":10205,"text":"crosschain, but you don't need to worry about anything. There's no gas, there's no nothing and it's it's really meant for that. So, yeah, definitely.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10205s"},{"start_seconds":10212,"text":"Yeah. Well, Dennis, man, appreciate you coming on. I'm glad that we can make it happen.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10212s"},{"start_seconds":10216,"text":"I think we're doing that. One more thing. Um, we are we bottom, Dennis? Are we Oh, yeah. You think so?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10216s"},{"start_seconds":10222,"text":"I've talked to a bunch of people who are not even fully sold on the cycle being two years, but even if if they say we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10222s"},{"start_seconds":10230,"text":"have a six months rally, they all agree it's bottom. So, I I have not heard anyone that says 40k.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10230s"},{"start_seconds":10236,"text":"We we good cuz your line says like 53k or something.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10236s"},{"start_seconds":10241,"text":"Yeah. But then, you know, 58 happened and then we clear above uh that 63 to 80 pump and then it would look so weird going from 83 to 53. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10241s"},{"start_seconds":10251,"text":"And now we're above what, like umif uh 50 week SMA.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10251s"},{"start_seconds":10255,"text":"Yeah. Anyone watches that line? It just makes no sense to go.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10255s"},{"start_seconds":10258,"text":"I mean, we're sitting at 83K right now, just hanging out and it's like a down day.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10258s"},{"start_seconds":10262,"text":"Yeah. Uh I was watching uh technical roundup. 83K is like the the line. So to hold to hold for a really bullish uh end of the year.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10262s"},{"start_seconds":10272,"text":"Yes. If not maybe like 78 76 but then I don't think then it's more of a choppy end of the year.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10272s"},{"start_seconds":10279,"text":"Still not 58 and nowhere close to you know new lows. So So your portfolio right now is mostly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10279s"},{"start_seconds":10286,"text":"Bitcoin uh now near uh Zcash adjacent stuff. So Quantis ecosystem.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10286s"},{"start_seconds":10294,"text":"Yep. I still hold a little bit of Robin Hood like pawns and stuff. Um let's see what Vlad does. But um aside from that,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10294s"},{"start_seconds":10301,"text":"like not much. We're looking at new revenue plays. I think everyone's tapping into revenue now. So yeah, of course there's kind of like these next order ones. Pump's been doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10301s"},{"start_seconds":10310,"text":"well as well. Um cool. Well, thanks Dennis. Thanks for your time. That was short and sweet. Uh Robbie Rob took us on a train to Jim Finance Land. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10310s"},{"start_seconds":10319,"text":"pleasure. Thanks for coming on. Cheers to you, man. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10319s"},{"start_seconds":10322,"text":"All righty. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, let's do it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10322s"},{"start_seconds":10327,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10327s"},{"start_seconds":10339,"text":"Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10339s"},{"start_seconds":10349,"text":"Last one. Last one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10349s"},{"start_seconds":10393,"text":"We get we get know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10393s"},{"start_seconds":10399,"text":"we get deep we get deep know we know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10399s"},{"start_seconds":10408,"text":"know we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10408s"},{"start_seconds":10417,"text":"know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10417s"},{"start_seconds":10426,"text":"we get we get You know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10426s"},{"start_seconds":10450,"text":"know we get deep. We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10450s"},{"start_seconds":10460,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know, we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10460s"},{"start_seconds":10485,"text":"What's up? We're back. We're live with the man, the myth himself, the uh the the man who serves justice on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10485s"},{"start_seconds":10493,"text":"blockchain, Alex Chevchenko. Um where do we start? We can talk about near intense. We can talk about privacy. We can talk about quantum. We can talk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10493s"},{"start_seconds":10500,"text":"about uh bringing people to justice and we can talk about why near is uh seeing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10500s"},{"start_seconds":10507,"text":"some of the greatest rise uh that I think any any coin has seen as of late.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10507s"},{"start_seconds":10512,"text":"Um I I think one place to start Alex is uh the cabal that has formed around Near. It feels like a lot of people were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10512s"},{"start_seconds":10521,"text":"sidelined. They were caught off sides intellectually and then all of a sudden they realized that there is a shelling point for intellectual capital and Agentic Finance and the ticker is near.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10521s"},{"start_seconds":10532,"text":"H what how do you think people arrived at this conclusion? What do you think ultimately got them over the edge?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10532s"},{"start_seconds":10541,"text":"First of all, Andy Robert, thanks for inviting me here. Um uh I do believe that um the important point was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10541s"},{"start_seconds":10550,"text":"uh the token uh exactly one year ago when Zcash was rising. I was analyzing a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10550s"},{"start_seconds":10557,"text":"little bit the um the kind of that rally. Why did it happen? Um and I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10557s"},{"start_seconds":10563,"text":"that it was consisted from four main points. First one is that there is a simple pitch. The second one is that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10563s"},{"start_seconds":10572,"text":"tech is legitimate enough. Obviously, nobody is looking at the ZK schemes and all the stuff. But uh I I know the guy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10572s"},{"start_seconds":10580,"text":"who knows the guy who who was looking and says that it's legit. So there is a tech legitimacy. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10580s"},{"start_seconds":10587,"text":"The third one, it was a very simple product to uh kind of feel it and experience it. In case of Zcash, it was a Zashi wallet that is now Zod.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10587s"},{"start_seconds":10599,"text":"And the last drop on the into into this pile was the uh you know, some uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10599s"},{"start_seconds":10607,"text":"legitimate influencers are starting to say that it makes sense.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10607s"},{"start_seconds":10612,"text":"And I I think that that was the perfect storm around Zcash and actually just continues to be because the first three","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10612s"},{"start_seconds":10620,"text":"points are the fundamentals, right? when you have like a simple pitch, a very good product, tech legitimacy, then like everything just works out together.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10620s"},{"start_seconds":10631,"text":"And with Near uh obviously we have been working on on the same type of an experience, right? Uh specifically Near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10631s"},{"start_seconds":10639,"text":"is heavily focused on privacy, but if you will split it in between the AI and kind of DeFi and then with the AI thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10639s"},{"start_seconds":10646,"text":"is what we're building is universal liquidity layer. We're not competing with blockchains for the TVL, but instead we're trying to make sure that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10646s"},{"start_seconds":10653,"text":"money flows are very simple and straightforward for everybody who are using your intents. And then this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10653s"},{"start_seconds":10661,"text":"simple. We have a simple application on top of it which is near.com. Anyone is able to use this. Um and the integration for B2B partners, it's also very simple.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10661s"},{"start_seconds":10670,"text":"And uh so there is a pitch, there is a simple application. Hopefully people do believe that we have enough we have shown enough over the past years uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10670s"},{"start_seconds":10679,"text":"enough tech legitimacy at least near blockchain is one of a very few blockchains that didn't stop uh it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10679s"},{"start_seconds":10686,"text":"didn't skip a bit uh at all and is is also working on the weekends. Um so uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10686s"},{"start_seconds":10694,"text":"so that's the that's kind of the the thing and then probably you know some some people started to to see this and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10694s"},{"start_seconds":10701,"text":"like the this this spiral is is going and that this is a very from my point of view very simple kind of yeah I mean look the private intent side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10701s"},{"start_seconds":10710,"text":"of things when you bridge into near like you know and deposit and you realize that you're in like this onchain black box it [snorts] really is a compelling","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10710s"},{"start_seconds":10718,"text":"like it just feels different than a lot of the other onchain experiences which I think is is is fantastic. Um, you know, the other part of of this is not only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10718s"},{"start_seconds":10726,"text":"what you've just you spoken about with regards to the brand and the marketing and the tech and the privacy, but you guys are now kind of creating this thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10726s"},{"start_seconds":10734,"text":"where Near Intense and Near.com is becoming this like shelling point or this liquidity hub for speculative assets that don't want to go through the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10734s"},{"start_seconds":10741,"text":"centralized exchange pipeline of just extraction and they instead want to launch onchain on near intense. like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10741s"},{"start_seconds":10749,"text":"launching onchain has always been the dream because you can do a lot of things that don't require it's just a very like cipher punk very onchain like defi","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10749s"},{"start_seconds":10758,"text":"oriented way of of doing like an ICO and so like to just talk to us about what this quantis launch means to you uh kind of seeing the success so far what what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10758s"},{"start_seconds":10766,"text":"what you've learned from it what your takeaways are what went well what hasn't gone so well yeah yeah so for near intense obviously we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10766s"},{"start_seconds":10774,"text":"have uh like in our stack uh the most complicated thing is to integrate the the some particular chain. Uh it takes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10774s"},{"start_seconds":10783,"text":"time, it takes resources and we need to make sure that everything is is secure and then there are tons of monitoring and all the stuff, right? So with Quantas this was a complicated part of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10783s"},{"start_seconds":10792,"text":"of the journey. Uh but we decided that uh the the team was legit enough. We would like to invest our own money, our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10792s"},{"start_seconds":10800,"text":"own resources into integration here. Um uh but then after this it's kind of the same thing that goes with any type of an exchange like there needs to be a market","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10800s"},{"start_seconds":10808,"text":"maker on the other side. H so the guys figured it out um and uh and yeah now it can be traded. Now I do believe that uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10808s"},{"start_seconds":10818,"text":"many centralized exchanges have been in this position um for uh like in the position of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10818s"},{"start_seconds":10825,"text":"jeopardizing the launches of the tokens right um and uh they're not always saying that there is a listing fee. Sometimes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10825s"},{"start_seconds":10833,"text":"they're saying oh yeah there is no listing fee but you know you need to do marketing you know like we need to drop some tokens of your project to our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10833s"},{"start_seconds":10840,"text":"holders you know things like that. Um I and I do understand why this is happening. It's because they have huge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10840s"},{"start_seconds":10847,"text":"distribution and um yeah but but I I also do believe that uh if we're able to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10847s"},{"start_seconds":10855,"text":"have an alternative to this uh then we are all going to be a little bit better.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10855s"},{"start_seconds":10860,"text":"Some projects are going to choose to list on centralized exchanges. Other projects would make a choice towards the um uh kind of more decentralized","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10860s"},{"start_seconds":10869,"text":"solutions. And and that's okay. It means that we're going to cover better the needs and suit the needs of of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10869s"},{"start_seconds":10876,"text":"particular founders and the way how they would like to do. I really believe that with the uh onchain and with near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10876s"},{"start_seconds":10883,"text":"intense uh there is a very high chance to uh show to the world uh how the proper price discovery needs to be done.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10883s"},{"start_seconds":10893,"text":"Um and uh I'm just looking forward to see how this experiment with with Quantis uh is going to go. Um yeah,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10893s"},{"start_seconds":10901,"text":"what what would indicate to you that it's a success that you know Quantum uh that that Quantis uh illustrates a case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10901s"},{"start_seconds":10910,"text":"study that others can follow uh and document a successful token launch? Um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10910s"},{"start_seconds":10918,"text":"when I'm thinking about the token launches, I think that uh like one of the successful token launches are uh the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10918s"},{"start_seconds":10924,"text":"20 uh 2020 era of coin list when Solana and Near were launched there. I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10924s"},{"start_seconds":10932,"text":"that everybody are considering launches of near and salana being successful um on coin list and uh that's why I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10932s"},{"start_seconds":10940,"text":"that it would be really nice to just just check what is was the price performance you know and things like that uh and also like how people are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10940s"},{"start_seconds":10949,"text":"looking at into all of the things the most important thing for the platform is obviously we're staying neutral here u","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10949s"},{"start_seconds":10957,"text":"um I I can tell everybody that uh uh there is No quant payment to the QTC","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10957s"},{"start_seconds":10965,"text":"payment to the platform for listing right no listing fee on near intense there is no listing fee on near intense uh because obviously we do understand","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10965s"},{"start_seconds":10973,"text":"that the project is very young we are not like we cannot build them anything but we're investing our own in the kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10973s"},{"start_seconds":10981,"text":"of resources into building this integration. The reason why we are doing this is we we feel that the the project is is legit enough.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10981s"},{"start_seconds":10989,"text":"Uh they they passed our due diligence and then we think that uh other people also might think about it like that and if they want to get an exposure to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10989s"},{"start_seconds":10998,"text":"project then they are going to come to neuro.com and some portion of these people are going to stay as users of.com for a longer period of time. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=10998s"},{"start_seconds":11006,"text":"But that's that's a kind of the the thing and this is how we are thinking about that thing. Obviously we do not want to give this additional investment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11006s"},{"start_seconds":11014,"text":"of our credibility uh into the projects that we're that are not passing our due diligence right but in general for everybody investing is a high risky","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11014s"},{"start_seconds":11022,"text":"process so uh make sure that you're doing your own research.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11022s"},{"start_seconds":11026,"text":"Yeah. So the only listing fee is do you meet due diligence and I I think you're absolutely right that you know other investors are going to look at this and they're going to see the value","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11026s"},{"start_seconds":11032,"text":"proposition of a quantum resistant layer one especially in today's day and age.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11032s"},{"start_seconds":11037,"text":"And I think other builders and founders are going to look at you know the value proposition of near intense and they're going to see uh you know that they can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11037s"},{"start_seconds":11044,"text":"get connected to onchain liquidity uh and that is sufficient for a successful token launch. you know, I I can't help","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11044s"},{"start_seconds":11051,"text":"but think before you came on, we were kind of I was thinking through like these, you know, the way in which onchain is developing. Um, and we were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11051s"},{"start_seconds":11059,"text":"thinking through agents and how bots are starting to interact with one another and uh, you know, kind of the the way that bots are a counterparty to a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11059s"},{"start_seconds":11067,"text":"us right now. um they're also, you know, developing a lot of these onchain venues, but eventually, you know, we're just going to be in this paradigm where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11067s"},{"start_seconds":11075,"text":"bots are just kind of interacting with one another. And maybe there's no apps at all. Everything is just a headless interaction. We're all just interacting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11075s"},{"start_seconds":11083,"text":"with our agents. And I can't really put my finger on it, but it feels like Near is very well positioned to be the venue","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11083s"},{"start_seconds":11091,"text":"of headless bot finance. Maybe you can help just articulate why it feels that way.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11091s"},{"start_seconds":11098,"text":"Um this is the reason that we for this is that we are working in this direction for more than two years. The whole reason why Near Intense is brought to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11098s"},{"start_seconds":11106,"text":"the market under the Near brand is a deep conversation that we held with Ilia back in August 2024","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11106s"},{"start_seconds":11115,"text":"and when we were thinking about what is the what is the future version of the world that we would like to live in is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11115s"},{"start_seconds":11123,"text":"uh something like this. And this is going to be a little bit of a rough pitch because it's not like like very fine tuned but so sorry for that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11123s"},{"start_seconds":11131,"text":"but but here is it like the my interaction with the world consists of two uh two things. First one is that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11131s"},{"start_seconds":11138,"text":"know what I want roughly and then I want this to get done. I want food delivered. I want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11138s"},{"start_seconds":11146,"text":"transportation. I want to learn Portuguese. Uh things like that. And there's there is a second version of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11146s"},{"start_seconds":11153,"text":"interaction is I don't know what I want so feed me in with different stuff.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11153s"},{"start_seconds":11161,"text":"Um and when there is a feed that is happening in all of the social media and stuff like that obviously everybody knows by now that they optimizing for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11161s"},{"start_seconds":11170,"text":"verality they optimizing for the number of ads that they're showing to you and all of this stuff that's that's very hard to control. So I would like to live","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11170s"},{"start_seconds":11177,"text":"in the version of the world when this feed is not optimizing me that it it is not necessary for this feed to earn money.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11177s"},{"start_seconds":11187,"text":"So it means that it works on my end.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11187s"},{"start_seconds":11189,"text":"It more it works for me probably it is AI assisted. So this is a userowned AI piece","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11189s"},{"start_seconds":11197,"text":"that is protecting me. That's why Near has userowned AI. And if I have intent then user owned AI is able to help me","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11197s"},{"start_seconds":11205,"text":"determine what actually I want to do and then and then find the counterparties to trade. And here we are with intense","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11205s"},{"start_seconds":11212,"text":"protocol that is there. And uh and for me it's okay to pay within that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11212s"},{"start_seconds":11220,"text":"transaction. If I'm purchasing a car but I need to pay you know 100 bucks more well that's okay. Uh everybody are everybody are okay with that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11220s"},{"start_seconds":11228,"text":"Yeah. So that's great for the AI there to be on my end and not trying to monetize me, not trying to feed me with different ads like OpenAI is doing this.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11228s"},{"start_seconds":11239,"text":"I want this AI to be on my side.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11239s"},{"start_seconds":11242,"text":"Once we figured out this concept of the world, this version of the future of the world, it was a no-brainer for us to to keep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11242s"},{"start_seconds":11251,"text":"these two legs on which Near is standing, the user owned AI with private inference and all of the tools necessary","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11251s"},{"start_seconds":11258,"text":"for this with intense infrastructure that is also in the process of building and more and more things are going to be built next to each other because they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11258s"},{"start_seconds":11267,"text":"are not possible to exist without one another. Uh, and that's why both of these are joined in the near.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11267s"},{"start_seconds":11276,"text":"Yeah, Alex, you've done a great job.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11276s"},{"start_seconds":11278,"text":"Great event. Uh, congrats on on the successful Quantis launch. Hope more to come. uh you know I've been talking to your team about other assets that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11278s"},{"start_seconds":11286,"text":"think that are uh on on the on the rise and have low liquidity profiles across the board and I think that we can create a a world where near.com kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11286s"},{"start_seconds":11294,"text":"catalyzes a lot of uh liquid markets for you know the top performing assets of this of this bull market. So appreciate your time great event and thanks for everything man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11294s"},{"start_seconds":11303,"text":"Yeah thanks for coming. Yes sir.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11303s"},{"start_seconds":11306,"text":"All right guys last standby and then we're going to finish this show up with Kane. It's been I mean probably a year since we talked to Kane. So, let's get this one on the road. The boys are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11306s"},{"start_seconds":11314,"text":"cooked. Need coffee and more things. Uh that include tequila or vodka for me for sure. We'll be right back.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11314s"},{"start_seconds":11322,"text":"This is the largest crypto conference in the world. Heat. Heat. Heat.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11322s"},{"start_seconds":11339,"text":"Last time last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11339s"},{"start_seconds":11389,"text":"We get deep. We get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11389s"},{"start_seconds":11395,"text":"Get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11395s"},{"start_seconds":11402,"text":"We get deep know we get deep. We get deep know we get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11402s"},{"start_seconds":11410,"text":"deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11410s"},{"start_seconds":11418,"text":"we get we get deep we get deep we get we get deep","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11418s"},{"start_seconds":11427,"text":"know we get Know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11427s"},{"start_seconds":11446,"text":"we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11446s"},{"start_seconds":11449,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11449s"},{"start_seconds":11454,"text":"We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11454s"},{"start_seconds":11486,"text":"All righty, King. Um, what's going on, man? How how's how's life? How are we doing?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11486s"},{"start_seconds":11490,"text":"It's good. It's good. I mean, other than, you know, the AI apocalypse that's upon us, other than that, it's amazing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11490s"},{"start_seconds":11495,"text":"No, dude, you're deep in the AI trenches from what I've seen. Like, you're like harnessing and grock botting and like, what's going on?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11495s"},{"start_seconds":11502,"text":"Um, I think we had uh probably like four or five of our engineers inex that were like very deep early last year in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11502s"},{"start_seconds":11511,"text":"coding. Um, and I got like uh vibe back then vibe coding pill, now we just call it coding, right? Um, and yeah, I went","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11511s"},{"start_seconds":11520,"text":"down the rabbit hole. Um, feels like early DeFi, like just every day new things, crazy stuff landing. Um, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11520s"},{"start_seconds":11527,"text":"know, I mean, today OpenAI dropping like all of map on the world like and like it was nothing like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11527s"},{"start_seconds":11535,"text":"also like we shipped some more features like it's just it's wild, man. Like the world is going crazy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11535s"},{"start_seconds":11541,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I uh so using Grockbot a ton, started to do like aentic trading stuff on like per platforms, starting to do it on like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11541s"},{"start_seconds":11550,"text":"near.com, a couple other platforms, but dude, it doesn't really work that well yet.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11550s"},{"start_seconds":11555,"text":"Like you get caught behind the bot uh capture things or like it just doesn't work quite yet. Like I like I don't know. I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11555s"},{"start_seconds":11562,"text":"thought, okay, I was going to get my Grobot. It's got it own like server.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11562s"},{"start_seconds":11566,"text":"It's like I'm going to give it a MetaMask account. I'm going to set it, you know, 100 USC. and like [snorts] go on unis swap and trade and it's like it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11566s"},{"start_seconds":11574,"text":"doesn't exactly we're not quite there yet.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11574s"},{"start_seconds":11576,"text":"Yeah, we're close. So yeah, I mean Infinex, you know, earlier in the year uh in March, we spent about 2 months building a full agentic trading","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11576s"},{"start_seconds":11583,"text":"platform, right? Um and we were we knew it was going to be a little bit early, but we were like, let's just see how far we can take it. Um we also didn't know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11583s"},{"start_seconds":11592,"text":"how we were going to take it to market exactly, right? Um, it wasn't clear whether or not, you know, people wanted the brain like left curve version of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11592s"},{"start_seconds":11600,"text":"just a vault and you throw 100 USDC in it and let the bot trade for you. Um, or if they were going to want to deploy their own strategies or, you know, if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11600s"},{"start_seconds":11609,"text":"you could deploy a strategy and then I could put money into that and then you would get, you know, uh, some kind of like yield or fee revenue from that. We","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11609s"},{"start_seconds":11616,"text":"weren't sure how to exactly take it to market. Um but you know to your point we rolled out like 20 strategies and like on average they lost money.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11616s"},{"start_seconds":11626,"text":"Yeah. You know on average they lost money and that was even doing things that were like not like you know super tail risk crazy stuff like you know uh concentrated liquidity provisioning.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11626s"},{"start_seconds":11636,"text":"Yeah. I'm just doing like every two hours you have the you know here's three tokens. Uh look at like run a little quant strategy and pick whatever token","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11636s"},{"start_seconds":11644,"text":"is going to perform the best for the next two hours. Yeah. And then just do that every every two hours and then like it goes for six hours and it'll be like oh I'm stuck.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11644s"},{"start_seconds":11652,"text":"I'm like what do you mean you're stuck?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11652s"},{"start_seconds":11654,"text":"You just swap three times in a row like oh no I'm stuck. Um MetaMask sign me out. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11654s"},{"start_seconds":11659,"text":"What's the I I can't get back into MetaMask. Or it's like oh I I got blocked by capture.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11659s"},{"start_seconds":11664,"text":"So so there's like giving your agent a strategy and then there's you know like you said an agentic trading experience","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11664s"},{"start_seconds":11671,"text":"or aic trading platform. How does an agentic trading platform look different from a normal trading platform where we just go and log in and place some trades?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11671s"},{"start_seconds":11678,"text":"Yeah. So, I mean, you know, the difference is you're not using like the MetaMask MCP server or something like that, right? So, we took everything in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11678s"},{"start_seconds":11685,"text":"Infinex and we uh created a a gateway for agents to trade with uh over MCP,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11685s"},{"start_seconds":11692,"text":"right? Um and so we built uh I think there were like five of us that built um individual harnesses and then different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11692s"},{"start_seconds":11700,"text":"strategies within those harnesses. So it was like a pure trading harness like small like not not a ton of code you know like five 5 10,000 lines of code um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11700s"},{"start_seconds":11708,"text":"and then we deployed you know I had one that was trading uh X stocks um I had another one uh that was uh providing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11708s"},{"start_seconds":11716,"text":"liquidity um uh in the base Salana market which is a bit weird right like but Saul's pretty liquid there um and on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11716s"},{"start_seconds":11724,"text":"arrow there was a ton of emissions and so if you could really nail it but what we weren't dealing with was like actually getting the agent to go and do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11724s"},{"start_seconds":11731,"text":"like computer use and go on to you know the aerodyome DAP and do stuff. We had an server and it was literally like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11731s"},{"start_seconds":11740,"text":"constructing the transaction constructing the bite code and then sending it to our relayer to be executed for So,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11740s"},{"start_seconds":11748,"text":"okay. So, it's like it's like the it's a step it's a step under, if you will, like just like, yo, do like, you know, I want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11748s"},{"start_seconds":11755,"text":"to do this and then Okay, cuz like that's where I'm getting stuck.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11755s"},{"start_seconds":11758,"text":"And it sounds as if you're you're kind of making headway on both directions like you're improving the agent and making it a little bit more specialized at trading and then you're also taking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11758s"},{"start_seconds":11766,"text":"the app and the exchange and making it a little bit more friendly. Exactly.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11766s"},{"start_seconds":11770,"text":"Right. So that they don't get signed out and these kinds of things. I can't help but think that maybe there's like one middle piece like the market structure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11770s"},{"start_seconds":11777,"text":"itself. Like do you think that an order book is the right market structure for agents or do you think like an RFQ like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11777s"},{"start_seconds":11785,"text":"I heard I think it was Hib and Kyle Samani talking earlier about like RFQS and how that is a particularly appealing ergonomic structure for agents. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11785s"},{"start_seconds":11795,"text":"Yeah. Um I look you know the agents honestly were fine okay at like using the tools right. Um I had","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11795s"},{"start_seconds":11802,"text":"agents that were uh running um basis trade strategies. They could handle hyperlquid no problem, right? They like no issues whatsoever and they never got","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11802s"},{"start_seconds":11810,"text":"logged out like it was, you know, they had a a embedded private key that they could access and you know they were they were off, right? Um so agents are very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11810s"},{"start_seconds":11819,"text":"and these were we're talking you know this is like Opus uh 4.5, right? Um you know uh uh no Fable, no Astra, like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11819s"},{"start_seconds":11828,"text":"these were not the smartest agents. Um, one of the challenges was cost.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11828s"},{"start_seconds":11832,"text":"Um, you know, it was costing uh somewhere on the order of like $1,000 a day to run these strategies, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11832s"},{"start_seconds":11838,"text":"Which was the other reason why I pulled funds rather than, you know, you might not want to spend $365,000 a year on inference to run your strategy, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11838s"},{"start_seconds":11847,"text":"But, you know, if the three of us or 10 of us or 50 of us get together and we go, \"Hey, I'll put five grand in, you put five grand in, now maybe we cover the cost.\" Um, so that was part of it as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11847s"},{"start_seconds":11855,"text":"well. Um, but, uh, models are much better. Um, but the models back then were not having an issue whatsoever with uh with this. What they were having an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11855s"},{"start_seconds":11864,"text":"issue with was making money and you know that's hard. Like that's the hard part, right? Like do you think it was a time horizon thing?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11864s"},{"start_seconds":11872,"text":"I think you know it's hard to generate alpha like if it were easy you know then and so so on on some level we were like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11872s"},{"start_seconds":11879,"text":"okay there's 10 strategies right? Um, each of us picks our favorite three strategies and five of them will make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11879s"},{"start_seconds":11888,"text":"money in any given week or month. Five of them will lose money. And if you pick three that lose money, like uh skill issue, right? Um, but you know, on balance, are they generating alpha? No.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11888s"},{"start_seconds":11898,"text":"Like the 10 agents are not generating alpha. Um, and you know, we what we tried is to go, okay, let's take 10, pick the best three, replicate those,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11898s"},{"start_seconds":11907,"text":"but it just it didn't matter. like you replicated them, the next week they lost money, right? So, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to do.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11907s"},{"start_seconds":11913,"text":"There's a there's a skill that a buddy of mine gave to me. It's called fable orchestrator, but again, it's probably not going to be able to generate alpha","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11913s"},{"start_seconds":11920,"text":"if if the thing with alpha is like if you're making money, you're just not, you know, you're making money and you're not telling anyone about it and you're just making money like you're in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11920s"},{"start_seconds":11928,"text":"markets, you're anonymous, just making money.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11928s"},{"start_seconds":11930,"text":"But anyhow, like the whole concept here is that you have a fable orchestrator. So, you have Fable 5.1 orchestrating.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11930s"},{"start_seconds":11936,"text":"It's like it operates like an executive function and then you've got Opus uh sub agents that do the task or like a third","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11936s"},{"start_seconds":11944,"text":"of the task, come back, check in with with the boss man Fable, go back to the second third of the task, check in with the FA and so you have a way to like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11944s"},{"start_seconds":11951,"text":"optimize your token usage but still get the Fable level intelligence but get that kind of like the runs to do the work.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11951s"},{"start_seconds":11958,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you guys built out these strategies, you know, made some developments to Infinex, had a lot of learning experiences. Where did you end up?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11958s"},{"start_seconds":11967,"text":"We parked it. Um, you know, we spent we spent probably 6 weeks total, I would say. Uh, and and just to be clear, that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11967s"},{"start_seconds":11974,"text":"was an entirely new platform, right? The ability to build the entire thing, the individual harnesses for the agents to trade inside of the strategies that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11974s"},{"start_seconds":11983,"text":"agents were running, the platform they were running on in 6 weeks is a testament to how insane. And again, this was March. Like if you did this today,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11983s"},{"start_seconds":11991,"text":"it would be 2 weeks, right? Um, you know, that's crazy, dude. The thing that we're building right now is um, you know, people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11991s"},{"start_seconds":11999,"text":"there's a there's a core group of people that love Infinex, right? Like they really love it. Um, it's their favorite wallet. uh they find it, you know, super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=11999s"},{"start_seconds":12006,"text":"convenient, um easy to use, but we never got that like um killer feature where people were like, I have to use this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12006s"},{"start_seconds":12014,"text":"thing, right? And I think part of it was there's a lot of uh it's very broad app, right? There's a lot of things you can do. Um and it's not 100% clear unless","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12014s"},{"start_seconds":12022,"text":"you invest the time why it's better. You know, it's not like obviously a better uh solution, right? Um even though it is more convenient, it's gasless, it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12022s"},{"start_seconds":12030,"text":"abstracted, it's got all the chains. Um, one of the things that didn't happen for us that we were hoping would happen is like we expected this proliferation of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12030s"},{"start_seconds":12038,"text":"chains and people would be wanting to get onto bar chain then mega eat then abstract then blast and rotating around and we were like ready for that and it didn't happen. It didn't happen.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12038s"},{"start_seconds":12048,"text":"Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12048s"},{"start_seconds":12048,"text":"And you know, Veritchain didn't work, Mega Eat didn't work, you know, um right abstract shutting down. Blast is shutting down. You know, we invested so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12048s"},{"start_seconds":12056,"text":"much time in having this like 25 chain abstracted, you know, and like these EVM chains are not equivalent, right? Like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12056s"},{"start_seconds":12064,"text":"there's a lot of work to make them seamlessly, you know, function together.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12064s"},{"start_seconds":12068,"text":"So, that was that was probably one of the misses. And so, we said, you know what, let's uh let's pair it back to like the four chains that people give a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12068s"},{"start_seconds":12075,"text":"shit about. Um, let's make a pure trading app. Um, no distractions because, you know, we we had a very good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12075s"},{"start_seconds":12083,"text":"crosschain experience, but not uh as good a same chain experience.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12083s"},{"start_seconds":12086,"text":"Um, and so it wasn't as good for memecoins. Great for Zcash on near intense, but you want to punt pawns on, you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12086s"},{"start_seconds":12094,"text":"Robin Hood and it was slow and clunky or whatever. So, we've said, \"All right, strip everything back, take everything that we learned, um, put a native mobile","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12094s"},{"start_seconds":12103,"text":"app that's a pure trading app with, you know, spot trading, per trading, prediction markets, and maybe options as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12103s"},{"start_seconds":12109,"text":"well. Um, and make it the best app to trade on, right? But it's a trading app.\" And and the thing that we also kind of uh got wrong, I think, with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12109s"},{"start_seconds":12118,"text":"Infinex is we wanted to take over your entire crypto life.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12118s"},{"start_seconds":12121,"text":"You had to be allin. If you're like, \"Ah, I just want to dabble.\" We're like, \"No, like all in or nothing, right?\" Um, and and if you didn't go all in, you didn't really get the benefit of it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12121s"},{"start_seconds":12131,"text":"This, we're saying, look, this is your trading app. Whether you have 100 bucks, 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks, 10 grand, whatever it is, right? Um, we will give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12131s"},{"start_seconds":12138,"text":"you the best trading experience in a native mobile app.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12138s"},{"start_seconds":12142,"text":"If you then go, \"Hey, by the way, I've also got a million dollars worth of Zcash that I want to safely store.\" Right? Okay, we've got Infinex proper.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12142s"},{"start_seconds":12151,"text":"We've got the full platform. it's desktop, it supports, you know, multi-IGs and all of that stuff. Great.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12151s"},{"start_seconds":12156,"text":"Come in. You know, we've got near intents. We got all that stuff for you.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12156s"},{"start_seconds":12159,"text":"If you just want to punch shitters on the subway, like this is the app for you, right? Um and and I think that's been very clarifying cuz there's a bunch of things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12159s"},{"start_seconds":12167,"text":"where as we've been building it, we're like, \"Oh, what if?\" And we're like, \"No, no what ifs. Just build the fucking app, build the thing, and make it good at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12167s"},{"start_seconds":12175,"text":"trading. The end, right?\" You know, Ka, I would love to be able to go back in time and have social trading exist during the DeFi summary uh days.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12175s"},{"start_seconds":12184,"text":"Imagine. I mean, and we kind of had it. We had Telegram. We had little groups.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12184s"},{"start_seconds":12189,"text":"Santiago would send you the message being like, \"Hey, you up?\" sort of thing, right? Um so this is the the other component, right? Um I'm a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12189s"},{"start_seconds":12196,"text":"Telegram maxi. I live my life in Telegram. Um, we, and this is a fucking wild thing to say, but we upgraded the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12196s"},{"start_seconds":12204,"text":"Telegram uh um bridge library, which uh was basically abandoned wear, right? Um,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12204s"},{"start_seconds":12211,"text":"had an agent over 2 days like rebuild the entire library um so that it would work with like native uh um uh React","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12211s"},{"start_seconds":12219,"text":"Native apps and the app also has a Telegram client built in.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12219s"},{"start_seconds":12223,"text":"Wow. Okay, cool. So the interesting thing about that is the Telegram social graph is probably the most powerful more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12223s"},{"start_seconds":12230,"text":"powerful than Twitter I would say right um and what it means is that you can be on Telegram.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12230s"},{"start_seconds":12237,"text":"I can be using this app and I'm inside of the Telegram client and I'm getting all these cool things. I send you a screenshot of like you post a CA, I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12237s"},{"start_seconds":12246,"text":"instantly get like a a buy button plus a chart. I send you the screenshot and you go uh why don't I have that? And I'm like, \"Oh, you're using we're still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12246s"},{"start_seconds":12254,"text":"we're we're in Telegram, right? Like I can open up my Telegram app and I can message you on desktop or whatever your Telegram","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12254s"},{"start_seconds":12261,"text":"than Telegram. That's interesting.\" And so you're like, \"Whoa, whoa, whoa. How do I get this Telegram?\" And it's like, \"Oh, there's a there's another Telegram client that's built in there.\" And then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12261s"},{"start_seconds":12270,"text":"you get a bunch of cool things like you can, you know, DCA and it'll be like, \"Hey.\" And then the other thing is that gives you a really easy and ergonomic connector for agents.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12270s"},{"start_seconds":12280,"text":"Yeah. I love it because all of a sudden it's like, \"Oh, my agent lives in Telegram. Your Rockfather for whatever.\" Yeah. So,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12280s"},{"start_seconds":12288,"text":"so King, I guess just last thing, man, like what's your like how does your portfolio look these days? Like, are you ETH heavy still? Are you still running the ETH train? Is it like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12288s"},{"start_seconds":12295,"text":"my validators? I I jokingly said on on the podcast this morning, I'm like, I'm not sure if I know where my validator keys are. So, I'm an ETH validator for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12295s"},{"start_seconds":12303,"text":"life. Um, so yeah, I still I still have a big bag of ETH. Um, I I have a big bag","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12303s"},{"start_seconds":12310,"text":"of um I've got I've got some hype. I've got um I've got some Zcash.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12310s"},{"start_seconds":12316,"text":"Um I've got a little bit of drive still. Nice.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12316s"},{"start_seconds":12319,"text":"Thankfully, um I did sell most of my drive at the bottom. The boys have done well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12319s"},{"start_seconds":12323,"text":"Yeah, they have. It's Dude, those are your boys.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12323s"},{"start_seconds":12325,"text":"I know. You know what the funny thing is though? Uh and and Nick would say this, right? Um you know, I said to him uh in uh New York last year, right? I said,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12325s"},{"start_seconds":12334,"text":"\"I'm out, man. like I can't handle this anymore. Like the emotional roller coaster, I've tried put everything into trying to meme you guys into existence","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12334s"},{"start_seconds":12342,"text":"and it hasn't worked. And so I sold everything. Um and luckily uh my prop fund, which is uh run by Jordan, uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12342s"},{"start_seconds":12349,"text":"who's the co-founder of Synthetics, uh he didn't sell all his so I had a moon bag, so I'm okay. But uh but yeah, someone has to get their face ripped off.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12349s"},{"start_seconds":12357,"text":"No, but they they've done well though.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12357s"},{"start_seconds":12359,"text":"And they've done amazingly well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12359s"},{"start_seconds":12360,"text":"You know, we get into all the tail risks and things like Hyper Liquid's like, \"Oh, we're going to come in options.\" his lighters like, \"Oh, you know, we're going to do options.\" So, it's going to be tough.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12360s"},{"start_seconds":12368,"text":"Uh, but I'm happy for them.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12368s"},{"start_seconds":12370,"text":"Yeah. And I just, you know, they've been building for so long.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12370s"},{"start_seconds":12372,"text":"Yeah. And crushing now. And I can't help but ask like the I mean, synthetics was so correct. Like, look at Robin Hood chain.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12372s"},{"start_seconds":12382,"text":"Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12382s"},{"start_seconds":12382,"text":"Was it just too early? Were was there other things that synthetics didn't do that Robin Hood did? Like I mean do you have any you know curiosity to like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12382s"},{"start_seconds":12392,"text":"debt thing or the stable coin or all of it or what?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12392s"},{"start_seconds":12394,"text":"Literally Robin Hood is synthetic equities. Yeah. It's the same thing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12394s"},{"start_seconds":12399,"text":"Yeah. I mean you guys were you guys were before Terra Luna's little whole mirror thing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12399s"},{"start_seconds":12403,"text":"Mirror started because of fucking you know do was like uh I like you're saying it's fucking like the synthetic assets was like this is the future","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12403s"},{"start_seconds":12411,"text":"that I mean that's everything that that was tokenization that was tokenization before tokenization. I mean, we had S Tesla in like whatever it was, 2019,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12411s"},{"start_seconds":12418,"text":"right? Um, you know, it's crazy. So, so we had we had we had synthetic gold. Um, now why did it not work? Um, the model","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12418s"},{"start_seconds":12426,"text":"was uh very degenerate, right? Like the shared debt pool model um was predicated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12426s"},{"start_seconds":12432,"text":"on like it's it was a sound model theoretically. You you understood what people wanted.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12432s"},{"start_seconds":12440,"text":"People wanted to exp dude the thing that people wanted in the earliest days. The reason why we made synthetics is because all of the dexes came to us and said","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12440s"},{"start_seconds":12449,"text":"people want to trade Bitcoin on Ethereum. Yeah, I mean that's true.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12449s"},{"start_seconds":12452,"text":"That's it. And we were like that's they just wanted to trade. They're like Ethereum's good, but I want to trade Bitcoin on Ethereum. And the Dexters","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12452s"},{"start_seconds":12460,"text":"were like everyone keeps giving us these fucking shit coins and they just want Bitcoin. Give us Bitcoin. And so we said okay, synthetic Bitcoin fine. And not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12460s"},{"start_seconds":12469,"text":"just synthetic Bitcoin cuz the challenge was also liquidity, right? So, we created the shared debt pool. You could swap at one point and people did $10","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12469s"},{"start_seconds":12478,"text":"million worth of synthetic ETH and synthetic Bitcoin for 30 Bips.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12478s"},{"start_seconds":12483,"text":"It's fucking cheaper than Metamas swaps, man. Like, it's crazy, right? And and so um you know, what did we get wrong there? I think uh we we had a system","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12483s"},{"start_seconds":12492,"text":"that in theory was very efficient u but in practice having everyone have to hedge that exposure. Today, Winter Mu would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12492s"},{"start_seconds":12500,"text":"just show up and be like, \"Ah, this is I can do this in my sleep.\" Having me and a bunch of Dgens in a Discord trying to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12500s"},{"start_seconds":12507,"text":"hedge out this debt pool that was moving around. It It was a nightmare. And we were always like on the wrong side of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12507s"},{"start_seconds":12514,"text":"every trade, right? Like we're long ETH, ETH nukes. We're short ETH, ETH rips, right? And so the debt pool just kept","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12514s"},{"start_seconds":12522,"text":"getting hammered and it and it created a crazy headwind. So, um, you know, being, uh, too early is the same as being wrong.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12522s"},{"start_seconds":12530,"text":"Well, I appreciate your humility and for coming on and just hanging out. I'm sure you're busy. Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, we've been, uh, we've been working hard,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12530s"},{"start_seconds":12537,"text":"growing, and so to the next couple years. I mean, we're in this just so funny how, you know, we started DeFi and we're just in like this,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12537s"},{"start_seconds":12545,"text":"I don't know, we're in this grinding away in the trenches, man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12545s"},{"start_seconds":12547,"text":"I don't know. It's just something else, man.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12547s"},{"start_seconds":12549,"text":"Clearly got a lot right as well, which is uh, very cool. So, thanks for coming on, spending the time. Cheers. and uh wrapping up the show today. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12549s"},{"start_seconds":12557,"text":"Yeah. All righty, guys. I think I'm about ready to wrap it up.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12557s"},{"start_seconds":12560,"text":"We're done. That was it. That was privacy and quantum day, guys. Privacy powered by and Near and Quantis and Zcash.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12560s"},{"start_seconds":12568,"text":"Shout out to the whole team. Couldn't do the scenes.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12568s"},{"start_seconds":12570,"text":"Everyone here, shout out to Near. Shout out to Quantis, guys. No stream, no show probably till like middle of next week. We've got just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12570s"},{"start_seconds":12579,"text":"boatloads of content to do postp production on. So, thank you for being a part of it all. Much love and we'll see you guys soon. Peace. Ace.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk&t=12579s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=gVi-A6kHFLk","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/gVi-A6kHFLk"}