{"id":"colcFGwKbyQ","title":"NEAR AI Office Hours #31 w Rune Kek Cofounder of Sky (fka MakerDAO)","description":"Exploring Sky, SubDAOs, and AI-Driven Governance\n\nIllia Polosukhin - https://x.com/ilblackdragon\n\nRune Kek - https://x.com/RuneKek\nSky - https://x.com/SkyEcosystem\n\nIn this conversation, Illia (NEAR) speaks with Rune (Sky) about rethinking decentralized governance and building stablecoins with AI assistance. Rune details how Sky evolved from Maker, introducing concepts like subDAOs for improved incentive structures and Atlas for organizing community knowledge. They also discuss how AI can streamline operations, mitigate bureaucracy, and help subDAOs remain focused on results.\n\nThey touch on user-owned AI hosting, potential gaming use cases, and bridging real-world assets with decentralized finance. Whether you’re curious about stablecoin design, AI-based decision-making, or new models for open governance, you’ll find valuable insights here. If you enjoy this conversation, subscribe for updates and check the links below for more resources.\n\nTakeaways:\n• Sky & Maker Origins: Sky emerged from Maker to tackle stablecoin scalability, shifting toward structured governance.\n• Atlas Framework: A shared knowledge layer (Atlas) replaces traditional hierarchies with structured data, aiming to reduce bureaucracy.\n• SubDAO Model: Sky’s “subD” approach gives smaller, autonomous projects room to innovate while preserving overall system stability.\n• AI Integration: Both on-chain and off-chain AI solutions can enhance governance, dispute resolution, and resource allocation.\n• Future Use Cases: Potential extensions include gaming for community alignment and on-chain AI hosting to ensure trust in model outputs.\n\nTimestamps\n0:00 – Introduction and Overview\n0:10 – Rune’s Background with Maker and Sky\n6:05 – Decentralized Governance Challenges\n12:00 – Atlas: Structuring Knowledge and Processes\n22:25 – SubDAO Concept and Incentive Alignment\n31:00 – Motivating Entrepreneurs to Join SubD\n45:00 – Gaming & Cultural Alignment in DAOs\n50:00 – On-Chain AI Hosting and Security\n1:06:52 – Closing Remarks and Future Outlook\n\nNEAR is the Blockchain for AI\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nNEAR AI: https://near.ai/\nIntents: https://near.org/intents\nChain Abstraction: https://www.proximity.dev/\nSharding: https://nearone.org/\n\nFor the devs\nGitHub: https://github.com/near \nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nDevhub: https://devhub.near.page/ @NEARDevHub\n\nConnect with socials\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \n#NEAR #nearprotocol #NEARAI","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2025-01-14T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/colcFGwKbyQ/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"all right welcome to an another AI office hours today with me is run co-founder of Maker Now Sky um I'm sure very well known in Leb three um but do you want to quickly introduce yourself for the AI audience as well as uh uh folks who may be coming from other ecosystems and we can dive in in how you guys thinking about Ai and what you're building sure glad to be here and I'll make a quick intro so yeah I'm run uh co-founder of Sky which used to be known as maker for the last almost 10 years um it is uh like probably the oldest surviving D5 project and like the most profitable di5 protocol and one of the the absolute largest also the one of the largest uh decentralized stable coins in the world um and stable coin is sort of I mean that's kind of the bread and butter of what maker built all those years ago and and basically evolved uh into Sky over the last 10 years um but Bas and I'll get i'll quickly talk about why this changed to Sky and what that means but just very specifically basically um after maker grew its die stable coin to about5 billion dollars of D in circulation uh then um for several years this upgrade was prepared and through a governance vote maker then became Sky uh which means that the mkr token um basically became the sky token rather is upgradeable to the sky token and then there's also a new stable coin called usds which die holders which is the original stable coin um they can upgrade to this usds token and then uh basically get some new features the the most important being uh the ability to get token Rewards built into the usds token and so usds is just designed to be the best and easiest place to get decentralized savings right now uh it it gives users 12.5% of like a pretty steady um return uh and there's a yeah there's about a billion uh of the usds supply that's earning this return currently um and so the the reason why it's possible for Sky to offer such a high return to usds Holders is because the protocol I mean it's this very large uh defi protocol that basically is able to allocate the underlying asset that backs the value of usds into all sorts of different um yield opportunities so that includes depositing into a and into spark which is a subow of sky and we can get back to that in a second um but also into things like real assets like treasuries and usdc and and so basically getting the best of defin trat fire um and yeah I think the current circulating supply of usds is something like 5.8 billion and the TBL is like 11 billion of the whole system but basically the reason why this change to Sky happened and it's sort of the same I mean it's basically the fundamental challenge that maker very quickly bumped into as it started scaling was basically that because uh I mean what users want is they want to stay coin and they want a really good savings rate right and it's very attractive to be able to offer this 12.5% savings rate but if you want to be able to get such a high return by allocating into the best of Defi and trfi uh that means you have to be really smart at how you allocate those assets um and and basically uh you know there's a lot of complexity involved in that right there's a lot of like you have to diversify into multiple different opportunities and sort of do do what's called asset liability management like sort of juggling putting stuff into long-term uh long-term assets and into short-term assets so people can also easily make sure they can turn the usds back into US dollars um and so yeah so like I said basically this complexity became apparent quite early on but it was very difficult to deal with it in maker basically and it resulted in like lots of politics and drama basically and like a bunch of like like a lot of challenges of just like figuring out how how the hell do you run a large defi Dow um and basically um over time it became clear that the solution is actually uh or rather major part of solution is AI and or really just more like the general the direction and the the trend of of of basically structuring data and then using algorithms and using code and using math basically to handle that data rather than have a bunch of politicians and a bunch of humans running this saying with Vibes right um maybe to add context yeah from external Observer right like you effectively were one of the first ones to fully decentralize your team and organization everything right and I think it was like 2019 or 20 when the organization was already Sunset and like it was a lot of different teams effectively working together kind of to maintain maker but in it end up being like a lot of kind of fighting on forums and and on votes Etc right between token holders and people who actually working right kind of exposing all of the same problems between yeah like people who are actually trying to do things and people who are kind of just investors and kind of expect things to be done but want it to be done you know cheaply but then representing and like you know like without actually putting any Sweat Right representing Equity so it was a very very interesting indeed experiment but as you said it it kind of it all of the other Dows then through like 21 22 kind of played out the same scenario where effectively you either had like a multisig of like three four people where who were executing or it end up being like a massive infighting of dows right without like things actually happening and so and so kind of your point of like hey we kind of need AI to be the like Central coordination here that actually you know helps making decisions uh like this is something that I very much appreciate as well because it does like this management of organization that doesn't have any hierarchy and doesn't have any power structure right and like clearly is not possible by traditional organization management right and so that's where I think indd is coming very strong so so you've been working on this for past like couple years now right and how and uh and I mean and you're basically right I mean I guess a simple way to illustrate the basic challenge right as you were as you mentioned the original maker Foundation shut down yeah in in 2020 I believe uh yeah it's actually a long time I mean it was already many like at that time maker was already old but nowadays that's still that's actually ages ago once again right but uh so the foundation was a pretty effective organization right but it was was also centralized and was just like a hierarchy basically right a classical structure then he got replaced by the thing called the core units and so the core units were something like um I mean completely independent sort of like bureaucratic departments or something like that that were chosen through like a like a vote right so like a political process chose these different core units and each gave them each a budget and then they were sort of expected to just like do good work with the budget they had right but yeah there I mean you immediately get like mean there's this sort of this thing called the iron law of bureaucracy right which is like you immediately get this thing that mostly like if if the thing that gives you your money is doing politics then you're going to spend the money sort of on doing politics right and this is how all like all large systems have this issue where you have the you're missing you're missing kind of the feedback loop of of uh of like accountability and like getting the results and so on right so you you want if you're putting money into something you want to make sure that like you're achieving what I mean you want to understand what the hell is this money even supposed to be used for and how do we know if we're getting the results or not and not just like Vibes of like well we should have some marketing so let's put some money to marketing and we should have some engineering and like and actually it kind of works pretty well early on because you have a lot of really skilled you know honest really good people in these ecosystem always right because because the Pioneers are always like really just like altruistic basically and like entirely driven by the vision or the mission aligned right Envision a lot so yeah exactly right so that's also why you get sort of fooled into thinking this works but but it only works at a small scale because like there's only that many of that types of people and and they only really are there when it's like really early and then if you open up for like politicians right that are you know that are good at at you know navigating billion dollar bureaucracies they're going to be pushing out those Visionaries because like they don't want to be working in in that kind of toxic environment right so that's kind of what started happening with and there was basically this complete disconnect there was like a budget of something like 50 million being spent per year like I remember looking at it and just being like how that was totally disconnected from like the money the protocols making and it was kind of hidden because the like maker had such a massive first mover advantage that is just generating huge amounts of profits and this continues to like now it's like sky is now making something like even though it's paying 12.5% in return to usds Holders the protocol is also earning more than 150 million in profits or something so it was kind of hidden at first that you had all that inefficiency in the bureaucracy uh but then the the bare market after like the last bubble right like four years ago came and all the the revenue disappeared and suddenly it was just this like massive loss of just like bureaucrats basically sort of like holding on to like their budget streams and so on right and and that's at this time I had sort of pulled back and wasn't really involved in the project but then I basically realized I had to go back and like okay we need some kind of solution that that just like really deals with this fundamentally right figure out what the hell happened and like how do we avoid that that this doesn't happen again so at the time that was called endgame um and it was basically um I mean the idea was you want to make a single political action or like a single governance proposal that then removes the need for any future governance proposals and that's kind of I mean already there that's kind of something like you know an an um like a sort of Auto adaptive AI or something like that we talking about here right this algorithm that naturally sort of can handle any any uh variables thrown at it right that's that's where you need to get to if you want you know as like one proposal to end all future proposals right um so we kind of slowly started moving in that direction right and I think the other thing to think about the basic problem is is this question of hierarchy versus flat organization right so what's the role of a hierarchy in a normal orc it's kind of like being the connected tissue of the brain in some sense right that you have like the individual Specialists they're all sort of sitting in the organization at the like in the trenches doing actual work and then you have the management layers that like they sort of like uh like they sort of build it up as kind of a pyramid right um but but the reason why the managers are needed is because if like first of all the individual people sitting and doing the work they don't know if there's somebody else somewhere doing the same work right that they where they they could just use each other for work so they don't do it in parallel and also if somebody leaves and somebody news joins in you want to be able to like retain as much knowledge as possible and have some way to like train up the new person right and if it's totally flat and you don't have the kind of the hierarchy on top of the the workers then you lose both of these things like they don't know what's happening elsewhere in the organization and you don't really have a way like train new person new people coming in they have to kind of learn it from scratch again okay so the basic idea in sky is basically that then instead of just rebuilding a hierarchy and having like some like decentralized hierarchy or something it really just gets replaced with I mean I mean I guess overly simplified because they replace it with AI but more specifically it's like it's really um just trying to really have very very good structured data that describes these things right so everyone should always have access to like the full breath of the knowledge of like what are other people working on and also if I'm joining and I'm doing some work here's like all the current knowledge here's all the like best practice this is sort of everything that's been learned so far and then whenever somebody does some work like it's really important that they not just like learn what others have been doing but that they their own data also gets input into the system right so others can can learn from that and if they leave somebody else can replace them right and this kind of data structuring and sharing layer uh is something we call Atlas and so the atlas is kind of the brain of Sky you could say and it's and it's also kind of like the legal system of sky and but then from this I mean I've basically come to the point where I think of like legal systems nowadays as like like sort of AI or brains that are running countries in this way in a sense right um and we're basically trying to rebuild that from scratch or have that I mean that's how Sky runs now has done so for a year at this point um where it's really like like you can go to I mean you go to like sky- atlas. powerhouse. so this is yeah the PowerHouse is like the provider sort of offering this like the interface to it but that's basically the place where you can read like all relevant knowledge and data about Sky how everything is done how all the processes work how you make modifications to the processes and like who are the different kind of official bureaucrats that have responsibility for different pieces and how do you sort of very that they're doing what they're supposed to do all of this stuff is basically contain the atlas and that's then the attempt I mean at this point still early stage to replace the hierarchy and have it so that everybody has this knowledge yeah so I mean we I think we started talking about it like back end of 23 or something because I also made this uh kind of future like uh projection our nearon which was idea of AI CEO or AI president um because very similarly we had some experiment around governance which end up being like a massive bureaucratic like self- collapsing system where people like naturally became corrupt uh because of a system like even people who like you know I work before and you like ask them why did you vote on this and like well because I want my vote my proposals to pass so I vote for somebody else's proposal it's likeup system yeah just like like just twisting everybody into it and so uh and at the same time yeah like you know managing hierarchy organizations and like I worked with Google massive hierarchy organization right you know all of the problems of like context propagation of challenges like you know like any person like as a manager you cannot manage more than like seven people really well right like the quality of management like declines um and then that was very interesting experiment to me because uh you would expect right like hey everything's transparent you know there is some objective that everybody like is clearly aligned on you're joining to kind of participate in that but uh it end up having all these problems where like unless you literally had somebody who was like effectively a manager who would on board people who would give them context who would like split tasks Etc like people would not sell organized kind of around this and and there was a pretty big like kind of um problems with like everybody expects somebody else to do stuff right like and I think with talking holders it's especially true like people kind of even though the idea of tokens is to kind of create this like hey you have a token so you wanna have this project to succeed so you should be like you know putting some sweat into it as well usually people just expect somebody else to do stuff so and and so that idea of this like having a layer that effectively is like in collapsing the hierarchy into like one AI layer that everybody can talk to and it's kind of everyone's manager but because it's one kind of one system it has context about everybody's work it has you know context about the vision it can split the work effectively and it can you know allocate resources and people kind of uh real time and it can do all the management like you know professional development and you know understanding how this person is kind of advancing and when they're ready for bigger challenge Etc like all of the things are uh kind of totally possible and you know kind of the tools are getting better and better to do that and so yeah like when kind of I learned about Atlas that seemed very much in that direction kind of I mean you guys started more like cod defying things and kind of describing the structure but I think the out like the final outcome very like very in similar Direction yeah and I think what's what's funny about this uh is that the approach that sky is sort of force to take is one where it's like very very practical so right now you could say that Sky runs on like a kind of a like analog or manual AI in the sense that there's not actually really being like AI is not really being used that much mostly it's like bureaucrats and people that have just spent a lot of time understand standing the atlas that than sitting and of following the adlas and then making modifications and and changes to it um and and so the and the reason why that's the case is because it's not like trivial stuff this is like the fundamental like you know like hardcore like this is how this billion dollar system works right and of course we can't like mess around with AI and like whoops the whole thing failed right or your your USS is now worthless right so it's like very much like this slow transition from like the old completely of unstructured processes towards just structuring those processes in Atlas turning into structured data but still running it quite manually and then kind of slowly in like sort of utilizing AI tools where there's like an obvious case where they can be used and they make things better and easier and like I mean things like I mean this happens all the time like dumping a lot of stuff into chat gbt and then using that to kind of create the outlines for like new documents and new um pieces of data uh in in the atlas right and and just like using that as like a sort of a small scale assistant right but then the near-term vision is to really start automating a lot more just using llms like and this is sort of I mean and this is something then that that uh that's going to come quite soon because it's also not that complicated like it's quite easy to understand how you do this right and it's basically like this this two sides to it right so there is data integration and data extraction right so that's like the two things you need to do with this like shared knowledge layer right you need to have an and because because I guess also the other thing about this is that this is actually just kind of we're just talking about bureaucracy and paperwork here right like most organizations this is they all do this stuff right but it's just in the real world usually it really sucks because it's like you have to sit and like I mean if you're lucky you get to type it in a computer you know if it's the government sometimes you have to write it with you know like if you're flying to a new country right you have to like give their country AI like a piece of handwritten paper for like the Visa stuff right and that's literally this kind of system like what's happening there is like data integration right they sort of ingest like oh this person's name and whatever like um and of course that has to that ideally should be automated right and You' want to use AI to automate interacting with the with the AI with like the the knowledge layer so I mean this is what I'm really kind of um um like just really excited about getting to in the near term is like all the processes would you know are built with specialized software where so when it whenever somebody um does something like adjust a risk adjusts a risk parameter or something right because of some uh there's been some changes in the in like observable data and then that means now the you know the the savings rate should go from 12.5% down to 12% then the the process of having the human sort of verify that this is the case and then actually doing it should be as simple as like ideally it should be the AI think kind of yeah analy data that proposes it yeah yeah like I mean just like like here's the you know here's the report of like why it should be done and then here's the button you can click to do it so the human is still in the loop and making sure it's as as it's supposed to be but like they don't have to sit and fill out a bunch of paperwork and then also on the other side then what somebody else wants to like verify why did they do this you know was that really are they really following the the rules as supposed to then you shouldn't have to like sift through rules and be like oh let's look over here and look down there and look at this paragraph in this section but instead you can just kind of like Get get um you know various AI tools right I mean obviously like a a rag type thing works very well for this but you could also do other stuff right and then just like help you with the paperwork basically of like anything you do make sure that that information related to that is given to sort of the shared knowledge base in a in a structure way that follows the same structure like the standardized way that all other knowledge is represented and then uh whenever anybody wants to do anything they can kind of grab in all the relevant data so they have all the the necessary context and this also means you can get towards you can get closer to like the dream of of decentralized governance right where like randos that hold some tokens and I mean you were this is the first thing you started talking about right like you have these like token holders that are like upset about stuff and they just want you know they don't really know what they want but they is like uh want stuffff right and that's because they're missing the context and they don't have you know six months to become Ultra turbo nerds and learn everything inside and out right but if they're like if it's some specific Co topic that's being debated like the budget for some team or something right then you could you should be able to have the kind of like this is the industry standard this is the best practice this is what they did this is the budget you know like have that basic knowledge available to them when they then want to create like s of provide their input and and that way you might actually be able to get like real knowledge out of people um that are just like smart people even if they don't have them they don't have the specific cont but you can provide them that right and then you might actually be able to get something productive out of them yeah so I mean that that makes sense and I think uh kind of almost like the it's your like governance compilot right whatever proposal you're looking at you're getting the context about everything that happened you know it summarizes you it gives you like the diff between what it knows you know right and what you should know to actually understand this proposal or make some decision how I'm actually curious how you thinking about more either Innovative decisions or what you mentioned as well with the core nodes where you like you're allocating funds you know do marketing and actually making like keeping them accountable making sure they're delivering outcomes and the other problem that we've faced as well which we've we've started doing this RFP process where we actually say hey we want somebody to do this outcome and people did and the other problem is like just quality in general right even if you have like an outcome but like if the quality is not there that's also kind of suboptimal even though it's like cheaper price or whatever faster delivered yeah yeah yeah this is essenti and this is actually in many ways this is like the other the other side of it so there's really like two major innovations that sort of transform Sky Beyond just being a stable coin project but really towards more of like a I don't know something like a ai decentralized ai ecosystem or something is kind of the direction it's it's headed towards right and because so what we just talk about the adlas and all this like bureaucracy and this is just like this is more like maintaining homeostasis of like yeah some predefined like stuff that you don't want it to break and you don't want the bureaucrats to spin out of control but it's not exactly easy to imagine how would this be able to kind of adapt to new opportunities in the environment and like yeah innovate and this kind of stuff that's not that's not super clear right and so the the solution that sky has to that is is really like it's actually I mean it's actually a more defining Central feature than adlas so I guess I started with kind of the but maybe I don't know what I don't know the they're both Advanced features I guess but the the main new feature is what we call the subow right so that is this concept of like subdividing um the protocol into yeah potentially like infinite um like new projects basically that are that are still sort of tied together with the call um but that uh fundamentally have autonomy um and like that and basically so what a subow has is first of all most important it has its own token so it has it own token it has it own governance token it makes its own governance decision um has its own like pnl right so it's like a completely separate business really um and then it also has its own uh kind of section of the atlas which we call the artifact of the subdab uh and this is actually where like all the complexity of the atlas goes mostly so the kind of the the call Atlas is very static right because all it does is it m it maintains like the humo stases like the the basic Sky protocol in what we call the sky Primitives which are then these like the like a a set of like pretty uh like pretty restricted set of features that that Sky um basically sort of enables that when used uh kind of um yeah enables like the core features of usds and the the ability to to collateralize it to just be available on I mean on multiple blockchains and then the subow are the ones actually using these Sky Primitives and going out and kind of deploying like sort of expanding sky so it's kind of like sky is like a like the sky Primitives is like a box of Legos and then the subd kind of write write their artifacts so create their brains or their their AI algorithms which then determines how do they take this box of Legos and sort of build a big structure with them which is actually sky in a sense that they're building up but Sky doesn't sit and top down makes decisions about where are the sky perim going to be deployed like where are which blockchains will usds be bridged to and where will the collateral be put or any of this stuff um also like marketing is another really obvious example right where it's like really hard to do deal with that in in Dows right it's big source of drama very often and it's like one of the big things of like the token is being like do more marketing right that's that's like every I think everybody gets that maybe salana is only one who's not getting but like ethereum ask everyone like do more marketing like but um but then that's the beauty of of sky that like there none of that the capability to do marketing doesn't even exist in Sky call but it all exists in the subow and then they have their own tokens and they kind of have their own like you have this much tighter feedback loop with like a small team that where the founders have lots of tokens and you can have easily be like a whale in a subow and have a lot of tokens a lot of exposure to to the success of the subd and then the subd will go and kind of build out the sky Primitives to basically expand sky and the sky products expand usds um expand the allocation system which is like how usds collateral gets deployed into D5 protocols and then the like the subow that successfully does this basically and like it's good at expanding usds getting out of users deploying it in places that that helps with providing good risk adjust returns uh that subow is going to make the majority of the profits from that so so it's so there so you automatically have this like skin in the game right which is like The elusive thing of like the bureaucrats are just sitting there and just going through the motions anyway right in this case it's like if a sub out doesn't perform uh it just dies like it's just not going to make money and Sky just not will not um you know will not lose money from from the operations of that subd down on the other hand if it does well it it itself makes the vast majority of the profits like Sky just takes sort of a tiny cut which is kind of I guess the a platform fee or something like that right um and and now you have I mean and then there's the beauty of the subd which is they can fail like it doesn't matter if they well I mean it's not a good thing if they fail but it's like they don't bring down the whole system yeah they don't bring down there yeah yeah and this is pretty much the only actually task of sky is like Sky just has to like sky does have to have a brain and sort of have a have the core Atlas that does a bunch of things and thinks about stuff uh but the only thing it has to worry about is making sure that this the subs can't blow up the whole ecosystem for everyone so it only has to kind of regulate against tail risk it doesn't have to do like go to market it doesn't have to do marketing it doesn't have to do new features or like hire hire people and fire people and deal with compensation any of that stuff that all happens out in the subow and then if they do it well they make lots of profits if they don't do it well they might actually die and fail and then the only thing skyt has to do is make sure that if one of them fails that's not going to bring down the others by sort of regulating it properly and then you really have a you know like I think a pretty interesting um substrate for like a lot of cool Innovation both in like di5 features but then also in AI itself right because every single one of these subd they all have artifacts so they all have like the subd artifact they kind of the the structured data that basically is like the the brain and the decision- making process and kind of the legal system in a sense uh of the subow and they can all evolve them in different ways and incorporate different LMS and how they interact with them or use different types of AI right I use like um um like formal logic and also probabilistic reasoning and this is all the kind of stuff that that we're really interested in in figuring out how to how to apply in sky and then it's all public right so they can all also learn from each other so they're kind of I mean one hand they're sort of like separate autonomous things that actually compete with each other often on the other hand they have this shared network effect um where they I mean and there's like kind of two major Network effects to share right one is the network effect of the usds stable coin and then the other is the network effect of kind of the quality of the data and the quality of the AI tools that are available to to operate their governance so I think with this you get like a really cool Best of Both Worlds where they're like tiny little um startups basically but they they kind of they wield a massive economies of scale right that Ben where they all sort of benefits from each other so I mean that that's very interesting and I think very different model indeed from kind of how most of the web three is built right now and I think that is a direction everybody wants to go but nobody's like successfully figured out how to create the right incentive structure um and we should dive in more into like how the some of the AI Parts you think you're working but I'm actually curious um how do you motivate the you know entrepreneurs to effectively start a subow instead of starting their own project doing effectly the same thing potentially and even using usds like in their startup but kind of not consider the subd like how how how do you create this like structure to really link things together yeah so I mean it's really it's a it's a cost benefit analysis right so the question is is the cost of being a sub down um greater than the the upside of accessing the sky Primitives and if it is then you're not going to do it right um and so yeah so I mean of course so one objective is make the cost really really really low and then the other is make the sky perimeters as as as attractive as possible um but and so on the cost side it's like what in the end um uh I I mean so this is still something like the the model for kind of opening up the subow is still uh in development right now right but basically what it's become clear that the the cost can be made very very low uh and and and way it like a way to think about it is it's it would basically be model something like almost like a tax or actually the way I one thing I was looking at for inspiration is actually like um you know the the licensing model for the Unreal Engine you know which is like which is actually kind of also a taex right where like um it's like a a percentage of of profits and then you just want to make that percentage so low that like yeah it's like a single digit percentage of your profits but like you only have to pay it if you actually have profits first of all and then secondly you know like the the things you get with the sky Primitives are like um you know like um it's like an order of magnitude different if they're if they're done the right way right and I guess and and then and and there's basically I guess three of them right there's like three major reasons why uh projects would work with Sky um or I mean in the sense I guess in the sense of like the very long run then the fourth reason what the sort of this the cheat reason is that there's of course a bunch of um like I mean the same way that any ecosystem tries to develop its it like any yeah any e tries to develop it ecosystem is through like grants and and kind of top down support right but it's kind of artificial and I'm sure like yeah you know you know that as a as a blockchain Founder right that like yes you wantan like you want to give grants and you want to get businesses going and so on but like the goal is to do that so you don't have to do it anymore right like because otherwise it's never going to make sense if the the ecosystem only grows and only kind of scales if from your push yeah exactly yeah you need you wanted to like get into a flywheel where you're not actually pushing it right it's p it's actually like pulling things from you right and and kind of contributing back to the to the core yeah and that pulling thing right in a I mean and and it's funny because Sky ecosystem actually gets quite similar to a blockchain in the whole like it's Dynamics and how it works uh but it doesn't compete at all with blockchains which is pretty cool right so like working with blockchains is like a major major uh kind of I mean the point of the whole thing right of like and that's also such a cool opportunity with the subd that they're really good at like being so units of cooperation with different different other ecosystems right but yeah anyway but but with whether it's blockchain or whether it's a AI Dow ecosystem like Sky ecosystem this pull effect you're talking about it comes from economies of scale right never where your fits like so it's like the reason why you want to be somewhere is because that's where the others are too right and there's also I guess some like level of like sort of um what do you call that just like fundamentals so I guess that would be like for blockchain would be like the performance of the blockchain and the the the EAS of views of like the um like um the the virtual machine and that kind of stuff right but more than anything else it's none of those things it's the it's the network yeah yeah yeah um and so anyway okay so so what do Sky offer right so the number the first and foremost thing is like the stable coin business model right that uh and so this is something that was clear to me immediately like I mean the stable coin business model is just like a really attractive business model everybody wants to do it right Everyone likes it and it's it's obvious that you can make a lot of money from it but it only works when like it needs to kind of reach a critical mass before it starts making money so with usds what the subs get is um basically they get to make like they get to get the entire kind of business like the stable coin business model without having to get past that hurdle of like you need to First subsidize to a certain size before you start making money um so so I mean and the way that works is like so in uh in Sky there's like two really important rates there's What's called the base rate and then the savings rate right and so the base rate that's kind of the the rate that people can borrow at simplified basically uh and the savings rate that's what you can get for depositing into the system right so it's kind of like the interest rate for putting money in the bank or interest rate from borrowing for borrowing from the bank right and then there's a spread between the base rate and the savings rate and that spread that's like what I would that's like the business model right that's the that's the profit model and then the key is that almost all of that spread goes to the subd Dows that facilitate the you like the the users basically so there's a system and it's called the accessibility reward system it's like a way to like track which users come from which subow uh and then those subd they get the like they get the entire profit margin there's still like a tiny um spread that has to go to Sky call because there is some like upkeep basically for for for kind of uh keeping the call like basically managing the tail risk of the call but then this also means that as a subow you don't have to do that yourself right so there's some like there's some there's basically some low lowered expenses for not having to deal with tail risk and only having to worry about kind of aggressively uh getting users um uh like and then just earning the earning like the the spread and this spread is called the accessibility reward by the way so it's like so there's that kind of three rates there's like the the savings rate and then this accessibility reward which this like smaller rate on top of the savings rate and the accessibility reward goes to the subow and then there is the base rate which is then um savings rate plus accessibility reward uh is is going to be like very close to the base rate and then there's something like maybe a 10 basis points or less um spread that goes to sky itself yeah so so basically it's yeah it's like you you get the you get the the entire um stable coin business model kind of without having to bootstrap it and then there's there's allocation system I mentioned this brief but this is like the thing this is like so spark is um spark is the first subd down right it's like and it's like the most well-known subd down and uh spark runs a protocol Divi Landing protocol called spark land which is a fork of rv3 but basically the thing that sets sparland apart is it has very stable rates and the reason why it has very stable rates is because uh the rates on sparland are not set based on like Supply demand of people depositing into spark it's like it's directly drawing on the collateral of um usds and this is through something called allocation system so it's basically the ability for a subow to basically borrow at the base rate from sky and then deposit into yield generating opportunities so um yeah that's like that's like the other major side that like sometimes they have access to like the massive scale of the the collateral portfolio of sky and can basically deploy the usds collateral in and liquidity into into protocols where they can then be sort of uh I guess you know sort of distributed out to end users who want to borrow it in various ways whether that is defi like it could be into like spark has it like its own platform right sparland um but spark also deposits into AA for instance and mofo um and and so uh and then there's also a whole operation of doing rwa like depositing into treasuries and and all of these things are all just based on having access to the allocation system so and so these are the two like main uh sides of like the that's the stable coin business model right like the ability if you attract users you get the whole spread for having attracted users if you find like Alpha basically if you find like a better sort of source of collateral in terms of risk adjusted return uh then whoever finds that they get to harvest kind of the the like the spread the value that they that they've accessed um then the last thing the final uh kind of value that Sky provides to subd is then the access to like the um the I guess you could say like the AI Network effect or something like that right where because you're building on top of the atlas and you're building and you can kind of you know you can learn from what all the other subd are do you can learn all their internal processes all their like all of the open source AI tools and everything that's sort of used to run the sub out then it's just very easy to automate the organization instead of having to to build it from scratch and of course and then and then to the earlier point of like this is all about netor right is like the more subs there are the the more attractive it becomes to be a subd because you tap into like a bigger ecosystem with more powerful AI that you have available out of the box and this is the same for like the the sky Primitives related to like usds users and allocation system of deploying collateral into Defi and like the bigger usds is the more attractive it is to have access to these Sky Primitives so the goal is basically to get the the value of having access to those three things uh above like the the kind of the fee like the ecosystem fee of of um that that that basically is is like a a slight cut in your profits basically but then beyond that it's like um you mean like the fully open model of subow uh means that founders of subow they get to completely like create their token distribute the token how they want like uh raise funds or do yield farming or do airdrops on there you know if it's like a a blockchain partner or something right they can use it to boot they can use the token to like exclusively boost Drive the ecosystem and basically all of these things um so that it's kind of like you can really think of it as I mean the example you're making like why would you use sub rather than just do the same thing but do it yourself it ends up becoming that it literally becomes a trade-off between like it's just like doing your own token except there's a small ecosystem fee on your profits and then there are these like access to these Sky Primitives that then hopefully has a has a for you yeah yeah but basically has a has an advantage versus the um I mean yeah it's worth more than the cost of the ecosystem fee I mean tell makes sense and and there's definitely like this sounds like a a good trade-off for for a subset of projects right not for everyone but for anyone who is like kind of sitting on financial flows uh but the AI offering I think is very interesting because that that actually can be applied to a lot of projects which are not even Defi and so maybe the other aspect to touch on we kind of talked about gaming before like how how do you think of uh gaming and and kind of AI and and intersecting that the subd Dows into space yeah so it's funny because like I got into sort of gaming as a thing for Dows like very early on um in so the early stages of like realizing that like there something was wrong right with like Maker's early uh stage after it had scaled right and so one of the things I became really obsessed with um was this thing I mean I still I still think like a good way to describe is what I like it's basically spark and it's like kind of community excitement around dowas right and and sometimes you can it it manifest itself as the thing you call a cult right that there are these people that are just like aligned and they're just like doing stuff and and kind of like they're being kind of altruistic I I call it actually semi- altruistic right because it's like they're helping each other but they doing it because they have this like shared um upside that they get from helping each other right but there's no like direct coordination like like no one gets you know if if you're a Bitcoin holder and you go out and you shi Bitcoin like you're going to benefit from that a little bit but mostly most of that benefit is going to go to everyone else right and you're not going to see your share of that right but still because people are sort of seeing everyone else is doing it then then so somehow sort of like it manifests anyway right and so this basically is alignment I guess you could you can just think of it this right this is like trust and Alignment um and it's super super powerful in Dows right it's really like a a sort of a part of the the superpower of dows and I think the existence of this phenomenon was a the reason why people were so excited so super super excited about Dows early on um then what kind of killed it off was when you then you run into iron law bureaucracy right then once you realize okay some of stuff you can have people just do for free you have to pay for it and then it becomes political and then suddenly I mean the moment you see some corrupt bureaucrat you kind of lose all excitement right nobody wants to like volunteer to benefit somebody who's just ripping them off right so it's very much like it can sort of grow if everyone has it but it can also very easily kind of just get destroyed um but I also think that if you have a lot of it you also have the kind of the spirit to deal with the corruption when you see it right to take action and sort of do the hard decisions in governance like getting rid of the inefficiencies and make yeah making the hard decisions and so right okay so where I'm going with all of this like how can you how can you build this right how can you like grow a community to kind of become more tight-knit and more aligned and so on right and that's where I actually think that gaming and like Virtual Worlds and like virtual interactions is uh it's like a really interesting um kind of Avenue in to try to to to to create this this um this power right and in the real world we have it with like nationalism like people I mean if you live in the same land then naturally you're aligned and if you like speak the same language and there's all these things that kind of make people naturally form a a tribe right and and sort of reinforce the fact that they're they're they're working together and they can trust each other and so on and so um my I mean kind of a very early Vision I had for the subd was that they would basically be you know they would kind of create sort of their own culture and have cultural interactions with each other through the medium of web 3 gaming basically um and then as we sort of progress more and more heavily into Ai and having AI playing such a predominant role in all this then I think what we're seeing now is this kind of AI driven gaming as well like these like AI gaming worlds right and then it the way it all ties together is it's sort of like it's like the right that that if if a subow is kind of like an AI or you can represent it as an AI or and then the AIS can play games uh and you can interact with AIS in Virtual Worlds then you're starting to get to a point where you can sort of you know you can actually you know have a relationship with what used to be just like a I mean a boring economic construct right but you can make it sort of interesting and meaningful and create like bonds between the humans involved right um and I think that's actually results in like like massive potential economic benefit and then then that kind of spins around means like okay if you can create better economics through the creation of like art and games then you can actually fund those things with it right so this is like a wa for us to sort of get cool things that we like because when we have cool things that we like we can you know we trust each other's more when we kind of do it together and that makes us create more value and then it could you know like so I think that's like a really interesting thing to to sort of pursue um yeah and this is why you know this is what led to this conversation right that we were talking about then the um well was it yeah I tweeted I was asking about uh launchpads for AI agents right and then you mentioned the um this unchain AI system that near made so maybe we can we can you can describe that we can talk about that a little bit yeah yeah so I mean on our side kind of obviously been thinking about a lot of the same Concepts and at the same time kind of there's a critical piece for me which is how do we ensure that the AI itself is not manipulated with is not you know trained adversar but even beyond that is not trained in such a way to make money for some Corporation but is actually on the side of the you know individual or Community a DA organization like whoever you know whoever is using it it should be on that side not on the side of Corporation providing you as a service and so that's I call it like user owned Ai and so kind of fundamental block there building block there is how do we actually run AI in such a way that we know which model was run which code was run around it and we can certify that and uh that on itself is enabling to have autonomous agents which are effectively can run themselves and so neari is building that is like agent hosting platform where you can run agents we have kind of our own framework but we're actually working on uh you know you can do L chain we're working on getting El Lia as well up and the the goal there is you know you can have a full intend verification that this model was run on this output it also is privately run so you can actually upload your private data for individuals or for communities and then if you want to do any transaction on chain you can certify on chain as well that this was run kind of in this secure Manner and so now you can actually have Smart contracts on chain that represent agents effectively is their representation on chain which both can call like the kind of this a agent inside tees and then can receive back and validate that indeed this agent ran this model on this output and act based on that decision again to contrast it with current agents like all of them around on somebody else's computer they're using open a Keys open AI went offline for a couple of hours whole agent stopped working uh so there's no liess guarantees obviously open AI can just ban everyone like tomorrow they can decide hey we don't like crypto let's just ban every every agent that uses that does crypto and uh obviously like you know tomorrow they're going to launch a new model that like decide you know will is biased for example to sell usds and now your you know your governance framework is now kind of go in in the wrong direction right so so it's like like there's no guarantees on kind of on decision making effect on the core decision making right and so that's really what we try to fix at the core and then build infrastructure around to make it available on chain make it offchain kind of in all kinds of use cases yeah I was thinking Al like I mean I feel like the major problem is also solved because this is just something I've seen popping up on X recently is these people asking like what you know so we have all these AI coins but like what exactly is the connection of like the AI coin to like the AI account right yeah and typically there's none right it's just a meme coin sort of like like it really is mcoin that there's an agent that talks about it yeah yeah there's like a separate like centralized Twitter account controlled by somebody who hopefully is actually running an AI to control the Twitter account or maybe they just running it on their own who knows right but and then there's a meme coin that's sort of like yeah me yeah what however the mechanism of mean coin is Right attaches to that but with this system you could actually like have a a coin that directly like control something like what's the prompt that goes into what llm and you'd be able to verify it and I guess uh it's like a swarm that sort of offers the um llms is that how it works so it's like a it's like a keybo network almost uh well it's like a te Cloud yeah so there's a cloud of machines and so we ideally want to have liveness guarantees as well so that even if you know a specific machine went down some other machine will pick up the work from the same state but like could anyone could anyone join that like if they just know that this is the thing you want to run so then I'm I'll run it and you know it cost me 10 cents and well I don't know how much it cost to run it but whatever cost me a dollar to run it pay me a dollar and 10% extra profit so that's a plan uh so yeah so that anybody can join this uh like on infrastructure level and yeah you specify effectively how much you like how much you charge per hour for your GPU and Hardware Etc and uh when the mod like when all the effectively there's a payment Channel attached to when you do inference or when you execute any of those agents and so that payment channel gets distributed to the hardware provider to the model provider to agent Builder and which can also go to the to the Dow for example that controls the agent uh we haven't opened that yet um kind of you know finishing up some of these things but yeah that's a plan yeah I mean as long as that's theoretically possible then I don't think people really care about like if like if you can just simply solve the the coin and is you know is the coin related to the AI or not right that's that's already a big deal yeah I mean the simplest thing indeed is like just making the coin to be Dow like you can vote on upgrading the agent or changing things Etc like that's that's kind of the simplest thing to do but then you can obviously expect from there what what the token holders can do and how maybe they there's like economic value also flowing from that yeah so what I think is really cool about this is that there's obviously like a really interesting um Synergy between exactly this and then exactly what sky is doing with the the atlas and the artifact right but maybe it's like a different Synergy than what you would imagine I guess right because the thing that what I've I mean well it comes basically immediately comes back to um I mean all the stuff I basically was just ranting about for like 45 minutes right which is that if you have an agent like this like so now you've connected the a agent to the token and the agent is like I don't know doing real stuff and and making money or something right um but you're still going to have the issue that like whoever like like the governance of the agent is still easily going to be a total mess right right and even the agent itself might be a like I mean this is actually one of the top issue maybe the number one challenge in AI right now I think right is that most of the time it's not the right choice right like you only want to use it for certain things so like the idea of like having an AI just like Run free and be like oh yeah it's chat surely it knows how to let it do do everything yeah yeah but also it's a but but on the other hand if you have a token where it's just like oh well that you know then have the token like override the AI uh then the problem is you immediately run I mean basically the problem becomes governance security right then you immediately run into issue of like well then the big token holder like 51% attacks and takes all the money right and and uh it becomes like a like the decentralization aspect kind of goes away because it's not safe to be a minority holder of this right or like you you kind of you're still kind of relying on like the the the big voting block that um that kind of uh like makes make sure it runs and make sure it's secure and so on right and this is kind of what actually the subtown model of Sky offers in a sense is like and I mean and this is also something is really unique about the subd and so it is that they don't actually have like sort of total sovereignty over their own root access the subdab right so what that means is they can't perform governance attacks uh so like so like so basically I mean the artifacts right the the legal the the the rule sets of a subd um they're just like defined off I mean they're just like held offchain in these like servers like so it's like distributed servers where you have the artifacts or distribut across it's not like a blockchain right it's like a simpler blockchain like thing that just contains the the data um and they then specify this is how it's supposed to do and they can they specify was a lot of human like a sort of like human values as well right which is something like you can't cheat people you can't like fraud defraud people and so on right and then what happens is if somebody creates a sub dial and they write in the rules you know we can't defraud people and something something right like let's say something like if you if you buy the subd out token uh and then you know it's gonna maximum spend 10% of its income on um you know on on contribut expenses right and 90% is going to go back to the Token of the profits right then maybe you have the big the founder is a big whale and then this person just is like yeah actually no we're going to pay all of it for you know we're going to do this thing this big project and that we're going to need all the money to do this project and then they just take the money for the project and sort of use kind of use politics right to like they don't directly rug pull right but sort of like soft rug pull of like which is the kind of stuff that happens right and to your point it's sort of like humans are naturally drawn towards this like even good people end up sort of always going in this direction if there's not like a check on them doing this and this is like what the atlas offers basically that Sky itself you can sort of appeal so it's like a legal system in a sense that you can sort of there's like several layers of so sky is like a supreme court of the all the subd right so yeah and there's also intermediate CTS right so it's not like ay thing where everything has to be to vote for skyh holders but there's actually like specialized subow called nepu yeah the subes have their own like weird names but basically the specialized subtes that act as these like like basically um like the sort of first layer appeal and then the the intermediate appeals court basically and then the Supreme Court is like the sky vote itself um and so that so this is a place where like it can this is a system that is specialized in like handling exactly the stuff that AI can't handle right like AI is great most of the time then at some point it hallucinates or like it it just screws up some really basic stuff or or people manipulate it to yeah manipulated or attacked right or there's a governance like there's something like there's a governance attack and like 51% he says well uh we need to do a big project so send me all the money like that's actually something where AI usually can't detect that right it'll be like well I mean yeah it looks suspicious that he wants all the money but on the other hand it's 51% of the voters B project yeah yeah majority wants it right so but but that's where like human politics actually works for this kind of stuff right where you escalate it and you have it go through the sort of court systems um and there's like a penalty for abuse of this right yeah then uh you can of course it's slow and it's costly to like try to overturn this kind of stuff um but the point is to to sort of like establish a like a Nash equilibrium right where like you just don't you don't want to do this people don't want to do it because they know they get caught yeah yeah like eventually like the gears will grind and will eventually get caught right um so I think combining those two things actually I think is super exciting because it gives you this like like it it gives you that final step of like the truly truly like a decentralized AI that really is itself in a sense right like in a sense like yeah somebody might have 60% of the tokens and you might only have 20% of the tokens but that doesn't mean this person with 60% of the tokens can just like fully reprogram the AI and be like now it's a different thing and now you know now it's serving me only because that could be really I mean and that could be described in sort of human language right like values like so like this thing is always going to be focusing in this general area um and and and would actually it would actually be meaningful to have that right because that sort of I mean that question of like the general focus like the general alignment of this AI um ultimately can be inter Red by humans right by sort of bringing through the sky Machinery um and and of course and this becomes very scalable right because of course you can have lots and lots of kind of edge systems uh that all kind of roll up into these intermediate courts and then the whole thing only fails if Sky fails right so as long as Sky maintains governance security uh then you could actually you know you can really um yeah you could run at like a a giant swarm of these kind of of of Agents um and you can even do stuff and so because I mean you get a legal system for free out of the box right you can even do stuff like a complex legal system for agents right so they can do like any kind of agree like they can do sort of verbal agreements in a sense right like so this is actually this is we working on on this exact thing which is legal agreements through intents so where agent can is Agent or user can issue like hey I want this to be done and then somebody says yes I'll do it and that creates an actual like natural language based agreement with you know maybe some payments exchange some delivery some you know continuous payments Etc but indeed there is a dispute resolution process that needs to happen if the outcome was not achieved but I actually think this itself I mean what you're describing is really good complement to this protocol because to me this protocol solves all of the uh challenges we discussed earlier where it's like hey how do you how do you get to specific outcome right like not do more marketing but actually like hey I want 100,000 you know Impressions on the website or I want a Twitter campaign that gets whatever million impressions like now you can issue that and and this can be done by people by organization or by a agent coming in and doing this and then if you have a dispute resolution system that can come in and say like actually uh it didn't do it like even though maybe it's a million impressions but they posted porn for example and so so like it's not really the like exactly what was asked even though the specific metric was achieved like because that that's a biggest problem is like there's sometimes like specific metric outcome is achieved but the way it's achieved is wrong right and that's where you do need some way of like really diving in and understanding the like the natural language and human human part of the equation at least for now until a get way better at this and and potentially like AI will be part of the dispute process right like there can be like AI did like overview first and say like yeah I mean this was wrong or this was correct and then like the Supreme Court kind of comes in later or you know this intermediate court so yeah I think this is very interesting and kind of fits really well into model as well the building um so I mean we we're actually super overtime so uh I wanted to thank a lot for the conversation I think it was super interesting to me I hope everybody enjoyed it as well and uh there uh you know I'm sure there's going to be more coming out around this from both of our sides so I'm excited I'm excited to work together this yep thanks it was super exciting and sorry for uh yeah taking so much overtime but this is what happens when you I mean if you're talking about blockchain and AI together I know whole thing and agents and disputes and organizations I know this is the this is the jam","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T05:11:13.554Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":5,"text":"all right welcome to an another AI office hours today with me is run co-founder of Maker Now Sky um I'm sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=5s"},{"start_seconds":14,"text":"very well known in Leb three um but do you want to quickly introduce yourself for the AI audience as well as uh uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=14s"},{"start_seconds":22,"text":"folks who may be coming from other ecosystems and we can dive in in how you guys thinking about Ai and what you're building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=22s"},{"start_seconds":30,"text":"sure glad to be here and I'll make a quick intro so yeah I'm run uh co-founder of Sky which used to be known","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=30s"},{"start_seconds":38,"text":"as maker for the last almost 10 years um it is uh like probably the oldest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=38s"},{"start_seconds":45,"text":"surviving D5 project and like the most profitable di5 protocol and one of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=45s"},{"start_seconds":51,"text":"the absolute largest also the one of the largest uh decentralized stable coins in the world um and stable coin is sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=51s"},{"start_seconds":60,"text":"I mean that's kind of the bread and butter of what maker built all those years ago and and basically evolved uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=60s"},{"start_seconds":66,"text":"into Sky over the last 10 years um but Bas and I'll get i'll quickly talk about why this changed to Sky and what that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=66s"},{"start_seconds":74,"text":"means but just very specifically basically um after maker grew its die","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=74s"},{"start_seconds":81,"text":"stable coin to about5 billion dollars of D in circulation uh then um for several years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=81s"},{"start_seconds":88,"text":"this upgrade was prepared and through a governance vote maker then became Sky uh which means that the mkr token um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=88s"},{"start_seconds":98,"text":"basically became the sky token rather is upgradeable to the sky token and then there's also a new stable coin called usds which die holders which is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=98s"},{"start_seconds":107,"text":"original stable coin um they can upgrade to this usds token and then uh basically get some new features the the most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=107s"},{"start_seconds":115,"text":"important being uh the ability to get token Rewards built into the usds token and so usds is just designed to be the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=115s"},{"start_seconds":124,"text":"best and easiest place to get decentralized savings right now uh it it gives users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=124s"},{"start_seconds":133,"text":"12.5% of like a pretty steady um return uh and there's a yeah there's about a billion uh of the usds supply that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=133s"},{"start_seconds":141,"text":"earning this return currently um and so the the reason why it's possible for Sky","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=141s"},{"start_seconds":148,"text":"to offer such a high return to usds Holders is because the protocol I mean it's this very large uh defi protocol","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=148s"},{"start_seconds":157,"text":"that basically is able to allocate the underlying asset that backs the value of usds into all sorts of different um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=157s"},{"start_seconds":165,"text":"yield opportunities so that includes depositing into a and into spark which is a subow of sky and we can get back to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=165s"},{"start_seconds":173,"text":"that in a second um but also into things like real assets like treasuries and usdc and and so basically getting the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=173s"},{"start_seconds":179,"text":"best of defin trat fire um and yeah I think the current circulating supply of usds is something like 5.8 billion and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=179s"},{"start_seconds":189,"text":"the TBL is like 11 billion of the whole system but basically the reason why this change to Sky happened and it's sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=189s"},{"start_seconds":198,"text":"the same I mean it's basically the fundamental challenge that maker very quickly bumped into as it started scaling was basically that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=198s"},{"start_seconds":206,"text":"because uh I mean what users want is they want to stay coin and they want a really good savings rate right and it's very attractive to be able to offer this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=206s"},{"start_seconds":213,"text":"12.5% savings rate but if you want to be able to get such a high return by allocating into the best of Defi and trfi uh that means you have to be really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=213s"},{"start_seconds":222,"text":"smart at how you allocate those assets um and and basically uh you know there's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=222s"},{"start_seconds":229,"text":"a lot of complexity involved in that right there's a lot of like you have to diversify into multiple different opportunities and sort of do do what's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=229s"},{"start_seconds":238,"text":"called asset liability management like sort of juggling putting stuff into long-term uh long-term assets and into short-term assets so people can also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=238s"},{"start_seconds":246,"text":"easily make sure they can turn the usds back into US dollars um and so yeah so like I said","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=246s"},{"start_seconds":255,"text":"basically this complexity became apparent quite early on but it was very difficult to deal with it in maker basically and it resulted in like lots","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=255s"},{"start_seconds":263,"text":"of politics and drama basically and like a bunch of like like a lot of challenges of just like figuring out how how the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=263s"},{"start_seconds":269,"text":"hell do you run a large defi Dow um and basically um over time it became clear","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=269s"},{"start_seconds":278,"text":"that the solution is actually uh or rather major part of solution is AI and or really just more like the general the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=278s"},{"start_seconds":286,"text":"direction and the the trend of of of basically structuring data and then using algorithms and using code and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=286s"},{"start_seconds":294,"text":"using math basically to handle that data rather than have a bunch of politicians and a bunch of humans running this saying with Vibes right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=294s"},{"start_seconds":302,"text":"um maybe to add context yeah from external Observer right like you effectively were one of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=302s"},{"start_seconds":309,"text":"the first ones to fully decentralize your team and organization everything right and I think it was like 2019 or 20","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=309s"},{"start_seconds":317,"text":"when the organization was already Sunset and like it was a lot of different teams effectively working together kind of to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=317s"},{"start_seconds":326,"text":"maintain maker but in it end up being like a lot of kind of fighting on forums","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=326s"},{"start_seconds":333,"text":"and and on votes Etc right between token holders and people who actually working right kind of exposing all of the same problems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=333s"},{"start_seconds":341,"text":"between yeah like people who are actually trying to do things and people who are kind of just investors and kind of expect things to be done but want it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=341s"},{"start_seconds":350,"text":"to be done you know cheaply but then representing and like you know like without actually putting any Sweat Right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=350s"},{"start_seconds":357,"text":"representing Equity so it was a very very interesting indeed experiment but as you said it it kind of it all of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=357s"},{"start_seconds":365,"text":"other Dows then through like 21 22 kind of played out the same scenario where effectively you either had like a multisig of like three four people where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=365s"},{"start_seconds":374,"text":"who were executing or it end up being like a massive infighting of dows right without like things actually happening","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=374s"},{"start_seconds":382,"text":"and so and so kind of your point of like hey we kind of need AI to be the like Central coordination here that actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=382s"},{"start_seconds":390,"text":"you know helps making decisions uh like this is something that I very much appreciate as well because it does like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=390s"},{"start_seconds":399,"text":"this management of organization that doesn't have any hierarchy and doesn't have any power structure right and like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=399s"},{"start_seconds":406,"text":"clearly is not possible by traditional organization management right and so that's where I think indd is coming very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=406s"},{"start_seconds":413,"text":"strong so so you've been working on this for past like couple years now right and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=413s"},{"start_seconds":421,"text":"how and uh and I mean and you're basically right I mean I guess a simple way to illustrate the basic challenge right as you were as you mentioned the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=421s"},{"start_seconds":429,"text":"original maker Foundation shut down yeah in in 2020 I believe uh yeah it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=429s"},{"start_seconds":436,"text":"actually a long time I mean it was already many like at that time maker was already old but nowadays that's still that's actually ages ago once again","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=436s"},{"start_seconds":445,"text":"right but uh so the foundation was a pretty effective organization right but it was was also centralized and was just like a hierarchy basically right a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=445s"},{"start_seconds":452,"text":"classical structure then he got replaced by the thing called the core units and so the core units were something like um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=452s"},{"start_seconds":460,"text":"I mean completely independent sort of like bureaucratic departments or something like that that were chosen through like a like a vote right so like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=460s"},{"start_seconds":468,"text":"a political process chose these different core units and each gave them each a budget and then they were sort of expected to just like do good work with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=468s"},{"start_seconds":476,"text":"the budget they had right but yeah there I mean you immediately get like mean there's this sort of this thing called the iron law of bureaucracy right which is like you immediately get this thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=476s"},{"start_seconds":484,"text":"that mostly like if if the thing that gives you your money is doing politics then you're going to spend the money","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=484s"},{"start_seconds":491,"text":"sort of on doing politics right and this is how all like all large systems have this issue where you have the you're missing you're missing kind of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=491s"},{"start_seconds":498,"text":"feedback loop of of uh of like accountability and like getting the results and so on right so you you want if you're putting money into something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=498s"},{"start_seconds":506,"text":"you want to make sure that like you're achieving what I mean you want to understand what the hell is this money even supposed to be used for and how do we know if we're getting the results or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=506s"},{"start_seconds":515,"text":"not and not just like Vibes of like well we should have some marketing so let's put some money to marketing and we should have some engineering and like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=515s"},{"start_seconds":524,"text":"and actually it kind of works pretty well early on because you have a lot of really skilled you know honest really good people in these ecosystem always","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=524s"},{"start_seconds":531,"text":"right because because the Pioneers are always like really just like altruistic basically and like entirely driven by the vision or the mission aligned right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=531s"},{"start_seconds":539,"text":"Envision a lot so yeah exactly right so that's also why you get sort of fooled into thinking this works but but it only works at a small scale because like there's only that many of that types of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=539s"},{"start_seconds":547,"text":"people and and they only really are there when it's like really early and then if you open up for like politicians right that are you know that are good at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=547s"},{"start_seconds":555,"text":"at you know navigating billion dollar bureaucracies they're going to be pushing out those Visionaries because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=555s"},{"start_seconds":563,"text":"like they don't want to be working in in that kind of toxic environment right so that's kind of what started happening with and there was basically this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=563s"},{"start_seconds":570,"text":"complete disconnect there was like a budget of something like 50 million being spent per year like I remember looking at it and just being like how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=570s"},{"start_seconds":577,"text":"that was totally disconnected from like the money the protocols making and it was kind of hidden because the like maker had such a massive first mover","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=577s"},{"start_seconds":586,"text":"advantage that is just generating huge amounts of profits and this continues to like now it's like sky is now making","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=586s"},{"start_seconds":593,"text":"something like even though it's paying 12.5% in return to usds Holders the protocol is also earning more than 150","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=593s"},{"start_seconds":601,"text":"million in profits or something so it was kind of hidden at first that you had all that inefficiency in the bureaucracy uh but then the the bare","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=601s"},{"start_seconds":609,"text":"market after like the last bubble right like four years ago came and all the the revenue disappeared and suddenly it was just this like massive loss of just like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=609s"},{"start_seconds":618,"text":"bureaucrats basically sort of like holding on to like their budget streams and so on right and and that's at this time I had sort of pulled back and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=618s"},{"start_seconds":625,"text":"wasn't really involved in the project but then I basically realized I had to go back and like okay we need some kind of solution that that just like really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=625s"},{"start_seconds":633,"text":"deals with this fundamentally right figure out what the hell happened and like how do we avoid that that this doesn't happen again so at the time that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=633s"},{"start_seconds":640,"text":"was called endgame um and it was basically um I mean the idea was you want to make a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=640s"},{"start_seconds":648,"text":"single political action or like a single governance proposal that then removes the need for any future governance proposals and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=648s"},{"start_seconds":657,"text":"that's kind of I mean already there that's kind of something like you know an an um like a sort of Auto adaptive AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=657s"},{"start_seconds":665,"text":"or something like that we talking about here right this algorithm that naturally sort of can handle any any uh variables","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=665s"},{"start_seconds":672,"text":"thrown at it right that's that's where you need to get to if you want you know as like one proposal to end all future","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=672s"},{"start_seconds":680,"text":"proposals right um so we kind of slowly started moving in that direction right and I think the other thing to think about the basic problem is is this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=680s"},{"start_seconds":689,"text":"question of hierarchy versus flat organization right so what's the role of a hierarchy in a normal orc it's kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=689s"},{"start_seconds":696,"text":"like being the connected tissue of the brain in some sense right that you have like the individual Specialists they're all sort of sitting in the organization","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=696s"},{"start_seconds":704,"text":"at the like in the trenches doing actual work and then you have the management layers that like they sort of like uh like they sort of build it up as kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=704s"},{"start_seconds":712,"text":"a pyramid right um but but the reason why the managers are needed is because if like first of all the individual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=712s"},{"start_seconds":720,"text":"people sitting and doing the work they don't know if there's somebody else somewhere doing the same work right that they where they they could just use each other for work so they don't do it in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=720s"},{"start_seconds":727,"text":"parallel and also if somebody leaves and somebody news joins in you want to be able to like retain as much knowledge as possible and have some way to like train","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=727s"},{"start_seconds":735,"text":"up the new person right and if it's totally flat and you don't have the kind of the hierarchy on top of the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=735s"},{"start_seconds":743,"text":"workers then you lose both of these things like they don't know what's happening elsewhere in the organization and you don't really have a way like train new person new people coming in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=743s"},{"start_seconds":751,"text":"they have to kind of learn it from scratch again okay so the basic idea in sky is basically that then instead of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=751s"},{"start_seconds":759,"text":"just rebuilding a hierarchy and having like some like decentralized hierarchy or something it really just gets replaced with I mean I mean I guess","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=759s"},{"start_seconds":768,"text":"overly simplified because they replace it with AI but more specifically it's like it's really um just trying to really have very very good structured","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=768s"},{"start_seconds":776,"text":"data that describes these things right so everyone should always have access to like the full breath of the knowledge of like what are other people working on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=776s"},{"start_seconds":784,"text":"and also if I'm joining and I'm doing some work here's like all the current knowledge here's all the like best practice this is sort of everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=784s"},{"start_seconds":792,"text":"that's been learned so far and then whenever somebody does some work like it's really important that they not just like learn what others have been doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=792s"},{"start_seconds":800,"text":"but that they their own data also gets input into the system right so others can can learn from that and if they leave somebody else can replace them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=800s"},{"start_seconds":806,"text":"right and this kind of data structuring and sharing layer uh is something we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=806s"},{"start_seconds":812,"text":"call Atlas and so the atlas is kind of the brain of Sky you could say and it's and it's also kind of like the legal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=812s"},{"start_seconds":819,"text":"system of sky and but then from this I mean I've basically come to the point where I think of like legal systems nowadays as like like sort of AI or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=819s"},{"start_seconds":828,"text":"brains that are running countries in this way in a sense right um and we're basically trying to rebuild that from scratch or have that I mean that's how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=828s"},{"start_seconds":835,"text":"Sky runs now has done so for a year at this point um where it's really like like you can go to I mean you go to like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=835s"},{"start_seconds":842,"text":"sky- atlas.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=842s"},{"start_seconds":846,"text":"powerhouse. so this is yeah the PowerHouse is like the provider sort of offering this like the interface to it but that's basically the place where you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=846s"},{"start_seconds":853,"text":"can read like all relevant knowledge and data about Sky how everything is done how all the processes work how you make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=853s"},{"start_seconds":861,"text":"modifications to the processes and like who are the different kind of official bureaucrats that have responsibility for different pieces and how do you sort of very that they're doing what they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=861s"},{"start_seconds":870,"text":"supposed to do all of this stuff is basically contain the atlas and that's then the attempt I mean at this point still early stage to replace the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=870s"},{"start_seconds":878,"text":"hierarchy and have it so that everybody has this knowledge yeah so I mean we I think we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=878s"},{"start_seconds":887,"text":"started talking about it like back end of 23 or something because I also made","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=887s"},{"start_seconds":893,"text":"this uh kind of future like uh projection our nearon which was idea of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=893s"},{"start_seconds":901,"text":"AI CEO or AI president um because very similarly we had some experiment around governance which end up being like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=901s"},{"start_seconds":909,"text":"massive bureaucratic like self- collapsing system where people like naturally became","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=909s"},{"start_seconds":916,"text":"corrupt uh because of a system like even people who like you know I work before and you like ask them why did you vote","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=916s"},{"start_seconds":923,"text":"on this and like well because I want my vote my proposals to pass so I vote for somebody else's proposal it's likeup","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=923s"},{"start_seconds":931,"text":"system yeah just like like just twisting everybody into it and so uh and at the same time yeah like you know managing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=931s"},{"start_seconds":939,"text":"hierarchy organizations and like I worked with Google massive hierarchy organization right you know all of the problems of like context propagation of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=939s"},{"start_seconds":947,"text":"challenges like you know like any person like as a manager you cannot manage more than like seven people really well right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=947s"},{"start_seconds":955,"text":"like the quality of management like declines um and then that was very interesting experiment to me because uh you would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=955s"},{"start_seconds":964,"text":"expect right like hey everything's transparent you know there is some objective that everybody like is clearly aligned on you're joining to kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=964s"},{"start_seconds":973,"text":"participate in that but uh it end up having all these problems where like unless you literally had somebody who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=973s"},{"start_seconds":980,"text":"was like effectively a manager who would on board people who would give them context who would like split tasks Etc","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=980s"},{"start_seconds":987,"text":"like people would not sell organized kind of around this and and there was a pretty big like kind of um problems with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=987s"},{"start_seconds":997,"text":"like everybody expects somebody else to do stuff right like and I think with talking holders it's especially true like people kind of even though the idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=997s"},{"start_seconds":1005,"text":"of tokens is to kind of create this like hey you have a token so you wanna have this project to succeed so you should be like you know putting some sweat into it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1005s"},{"start_seconds":1013,"text":"as well usually people just expect somebody else to do stuff so and and so that idea of this like having a layer that effectively is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1013s"},{"start_seconds":1022,"text":"like in collapsing the hierarchy into like one AI layer that everybody can talk to and it's kind of everyone's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1022s"},{"start_seconds":1030,"text":"manager but because it's one kind of one system it has context about everybody's work it has you know context about the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1030s"},{"start_seconds":1037,"text":"vision it can split the work effectively and it can you know allocate resources and people kind of uh real time and it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1037s"},{"start_seconds":1045,"text":"can do all the management like you know professional development and you know understanding how this person is kind of advancing and when they're ready for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1045s"},{"start_seconds":1053,"text":"bigger challenge Etc like all of the things are uh kind of totally possible and you know kind of the tools are getting better and better to do that and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1053s"},{"start_seconds":1061,"text":"so yeah like when kind of I learned about Atlas that seemed very much in that direction kind of I mean you guys started more like cod defying things and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1061s"},{"start_seconds":1069,"text":"kind of describing the structure but I think the out like the final outcome very like very in similar Direction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1069s"},{"start_seconds":1079,"text":"yeah and I think what's what's funny about this uh is that the approach that sky is sort of force to take is one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1079s"},{"start_seconds":1088,"text":"where it's like very very practical so right now you could say that Sky runs on like a kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1088s"},{"start_seconds":1095,"text":"a like analog or manual AI in the sense that there's not actually really being like AI is not really being used that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1095s"},{"start_seconds":1103,"text":"much mostly it's like bureaucrats and people that have just spent a lot of time understand standing the atlas that than sitting and of following the adlas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1103s"},{"start_seconds":1111,"text":"and then making modifications and and changes to it um and and so the and the reason why that's the case is because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1111s"},{"start_seconds":1119,"text":"it's not like trivial stuff this is like the fundamental like you know like hardcore like this is how this billion dollar system works right and of course","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1119s"},{"start_seconds":1127,"text":"we can't like mess around with AI and like whoops the whole thing failed right or your your USS is now worthless right so it's like very much like this slow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1127s"},{"start_seconds":1136,"text":"transition from like the old completely of unstructured processes towards just structuring those processes in Atlas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1136s"},{"start_seconds":1143,"text":"turning into structured data but still running it quite manually and then kind of slowly in like sort of utilizing AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1143s"},{"start_seconds":1151,"text":"tools where there's like an obvious case where they can be used and they make things better and easier and like I mean things like I mean this happens all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1151s"},{"start_seconds":1159,"text":"time like dumping a lot of stuff into chat gbt and then using that to kind of create the outlines for like new documents and new um pieces of data uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1159s"},{"start_seconds":1168,"text":"in in the atlas right and and just like using that as like a sort of a small scale assistant right but then the near-term vision is to really start","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1168s"},{"start_seconds":1177,"text":"automating a lot more just using llms like and this is sort of I mean and this is something then that that uh that's going to come quite soon because it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1177s"},{"start_seconds":1185,"text":"also not that complicated like it's quite easy to understand how you do this right and it's basically like this this two sides to it right so there is data","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1185s"},{"start_seconds":1195,"text":"integration and data extraction right so that's like the two things you need to do with this like shared knowledge layer right you need to have an and because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1195s"},{"start_seconds":1204,"text":"because I guess also the other thing about this is that this is actually just kind of we're just talking about bureaucracy and paperwork here right like most organizations this is they all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1204s"},{"start_seconds":1212,"text":"do this stuff right but it's just in the real world usually it really sucks because it's like you have to sit and like I mean if you're lucky you get to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1212s"},{"start_seconds":1220,"text":"type it in a computer you know if it's the government sometimes you have to write it with you know like if you're flying to a new country right you have to like give their country AI like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1220s"},{"start_seconds":1228,"text":"piece of handwritten paper for like the Visa stuff right and that's literally this kind of system like what's happening there is like data integration right they sort of ingest like oh this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1228s"},{"start_seconds":1237,"text":"person's name and whatever like um and of course that has to that ideally should be automated right and You' want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1237s"},{"start_seconds":1245,"text":"to use AI to automate interacting with the with the AI with like the the knowledge layer so I mean this is what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1245s"},{"start_seconds":1252,"text":"I'm really kind of um um like just really excited about getting to in the near term is like all the processes would you know are built with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1252s"},{"start_seconds":1260,"text":"specialized software where so when it whenever somebody um does something like adjust a risk adjusts a risk parameter","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1260s"},{"start_seconds":1268,"text":"or something right because of some uh there's been some changes in the in like observable data and then that means now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1268s"},{"start_seconds":1275,"text":"the you know the the savings rate should go from 12.5% down to 12% then the the process of having the human sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1275s"},{"start_seconds":1283,"text":"verify that this is the case and then actually doing it should be as simple as like ideally it should be the AI think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1283s"},{"start_seconds":1289,"text":"kind of yeah analy data that proposes it yeah yeah like I mean just like like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1289s"},{"start_seconds":1297,"text":"here's the you know here's the report of like why it should be done and then here's the button you can click to do it so the human is still in the loop and making sure it's as as it's supposed to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1297s"},{"start_seconds":1306,"text":"be but like they don't have to sit and fill out a bunch of paperwork and then also on the other side then what somebody else wants to like verify why did they do this you know was that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1306s"},{"start_seconds":1314,"text":"really are they really following the the rules as supposed to then you shouldn't have to like sift through rules and be like oh let's look over here and look down there and look at this paragraph in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1314s"},{"start_seconds":1323,"text":"this section but instead you can just kind of like Get get um you know various AI tools right I mean obviously like a a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1323s"},{"start_seconds":1331,"text":"rag type thing works very well for this but you could also do other stuff right and then just like help you with the paperwork basically of like anything you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1331s"},{"start_seconds":1340,"text":"do make sure that that information related to that is given to sort of the shared knowledge base in a in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1340s"},{"start_seconds":1348,"text":"structure way that follows the same structure like the standardized way that all other knowledge is represented and then uh whenever anybody wants to do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1348s"},{"start_seconds":1357,"text":"anything they can kind of grab in all the relevant data so they have all the the necessary context and this also means you can get towards you can get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1357s"},{"start_seconds":1364,"text":"closer to like the dream of of decentralized governance right where like randos that hold some tokens and I mean you were this is the first thing you started talking about right like you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1364s"},{"start_seconds":1372,"text":"have these like token holders that are like upset about stuff and they just want you know they don't really know what they want but they is like uh want stuffff right and that's because they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1372s"},{"start_seconds":1381,"text":"missing the context and they don't have you know six months to become Ultra turbo nerds and learn everything inside and out right but if they're like if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1381s"},{"start_seconds":1389,"text":"it's some specific Co topic that's being debated like the budget for some team or something right then you could you should be able to have the kind of like this is the industry standard this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1389s"},{"start_seconds":1397,"text":"the best practice this is what they did this is the budget you know like have that basic knowledge available to them when they then want to create like s of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1397s"},{"start_seconds":1406,"text":"provide their input and and that way you might actually be able to get like real knowledge out of people um that are just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1406s"},{"start_seconds":1413,"text":"like smart people even if they don't have them they don't have the specific cont but you can provide them that right and then you might actually be able to get something productive out of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1413s"},{"start_seconds":1422,"text":"them yeah so I mean that that makes sense and I think uh kind of almost like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1422s"},{"start_seconds":1429,"text":"the it's your like governance compilot right whatever proposal you're looking at you're getting the context about everything that happened you know it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1429s"},{"start_seconds":1437,"text":"summarizes you it gives you like the diff between what it knows you know right and what you should know to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1437s"},{"start_seconds":1444,"text":"actually understand this proposal or make some decision how I'm actually curious how you thinking about more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1444s"},{"start_seconds":1452,"text":"either Innovative decisions or what you mentioned as well with the core nodes where you like you're allocating funds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1452s"},{"start_seconds":1459,"text":"you know do marketing and actually making like keeping them accountable making sure they're delivering outcomes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1459s"},{"start_seconds":1467,"text":"and the other problem that we've faced as well which we've we've started doing this RFP process where we actually say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1467s"},{"start_seconds":1475,"text":"hey we want somebody to do this outcome and people did and the other problem is like just quality in general right even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1475s"},{"start_seconds":1483,"text":"if you have like an outcome but like if the quality is not there that's also kind of suboptimal even though it's like cheaper price or whatever faster","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1483s"},{"start_seconds":1491,"text":"delivered yeah yeah yeah this is essenti and this is actually in many ways this is like the other the other side of it so there's really like two major","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1491s"},{"start_seconds":1499,"text":"innovations that sort of transform Sky Beyond just being a stable coin project but really towards more of like a I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1499s"},{"start_seconds":1507,"text":"don't know something like a ai decentralized ai ecosystem or something is kind of the direction it's it's headed towards right and because so what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1507s"},{"start_seconds":1516,"text":"we just talk about the adlas and all this like bureaucracy and this is just like this is more like maintaining homeostasis of like yeah some predefined","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1516s"},{"start_seconds":1524,"text":"like stuff that you don't want it to break and you don't want the bureaucrats to spin out of control but it's not exactly easy to imagine how would this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1524s"},{"start_seconds":1531,"text":"be able to kind of adapt to new opportunities in the environment and like yeah innovate and this kind of stuff that's not that's not super clear","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1531s"},{"start_seconds":1538,"text":"right and so the the solution that sky has to that is is really like it's actually I mean it's actually a more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1538s"},{"start_seconds":1546,"text":"defining Central feature than adlas so I guess I started with kind of the but maybe I don't know what I don't know the they're both Advanced features I guess","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1546s"},{"start_seconds":1556,"text":"but the the main new feature is what we call the subow right so that is this concept of like subdividing um the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1556s"},{"start_seconds":1565,"text":"protocol into yeah potentially like infinite um like new projects basically that are that are still sort of tied","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1565s"},{"start_seconds":1572,"text":"together with the call um but that uh fundamentally have autonomy um and like that and basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1572s"},{"start_seconds":1580,"text":"so what a subow has is first of all most important it has its own token so it has it own token it has it own governance token it makes its own governance","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1580s"},{"start_seconds":1587,"text":"decision um has its own like pnl right so it's like a completely separate business really um and then it also has its own","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1587s"},{"start_seconds":1597,"text":"uh kind of section of the atlas which we call the artifact of the subdab uh and this is actually where like all the complexity of the atlas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1597s"},{"start_seconds":1605,"text":"goes mostly so the kind of the the call Atlas is very static right because all it does is it m it maintains like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1605s"},{"start_seconds":1612,"text":"humo stases like the the basic Sky protocol in what we call the sky Primitives which are then these like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1612s"},{"start_seconds":1619,"text":"like a a set of like pretty uh like pretty restricted set of features that that Sky um basically sort of enables","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1619s"},{"start_seconds":1630,"text":"that when used uh kind of um yeah enables like the core features of usds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1630s"},{"start_seconds":1637,"text":"and the the ability to to collateralize it to just be available on I mean on multiple blockchains and then the subow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1637s"},{"start_seconds":1645,"text":"are the ones actually using these Sky Primitives and going out and kind of deploying like sort of expanding sky so it's kind of like sky is like a like the sky","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1645s"},{"start_seconds":1652,"text":"Primitives is like a box of Legos and then the subd kind of write write their artifacts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1652s"},{"start_seconds":1659,"text":"so create their brains or their their AI algorithms which then determines how do they take this box of Legos and sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1659s"},{"start_seconds":1666,"text":"build a big structure with them which is actually sky in a sense that they're building up but Sky doesn't sit and top","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1666s"},{"start_seconds":1674,"text":"down makes decisions about where are the sky perim going to be deployed like where are which blockchains will usds be bridged to and where will the collateral","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1674s"},{"start_seconds":1683,"text":"be put or any of this stuff um also like marketing is another really obvious example right where it's like really hard to do deal with that in in Dows","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1683s"},{"start_seconds":1691,"text":"right it's big source of drama very often and it's like one of the big things of like the token is being like do more marketing right that's that's like every I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1691s"},{"start_seconds":1699,"text":"everybody gets that maybe salana is only one who's not getting but like ethereum ask everyone like do more marketing like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1699s"},{"start_seconds":1707,"text":"but um but then that's the beauty of of sky that like there none of that the capability to do marketing doesn't even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1707s"},{"start_seconds":1714,"text":"exist in Sky call but it all exists in the subow and then they have their own tokens and they kind of have their own","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1714s"},{"start_seconds":1722,"text":"like you have this much tighter feedback loop with like a small team that where the founders have lots of tokens and you can have easily be like a whale in a subow and have a lot of tokens a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1722s"},{"start_seconds":1731,"text":"exposure to to the success of the subd and then the subd will go and kind of build out the sky Primitives to basically expand sky and the sky","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1731s"},{"start_seconds":1740,"text":"products expand usds um expand the allocation system which is like how usds collateral gets deployed into D5","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1740s"},{"start_seconds":1747,"text":"protocols and then the like the subow that successfully does this basically and like it's good at expanding usds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1747s"},{"start_seconds":1755,"text":"getting out of users deploying it in places that that helps with providing good risk adjust returns uh that subow is going to make the majority of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1755s"},{"start_seconds":1763,"text":"profits from that so so it's so there so you automatically have this like skin in the game right which is like The elusive thing of like the bureaucrats are just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1763s"},{"start_seconds":1772,"text":"sitting there and just going through the motions anyway right in this case it's like if a sub out doesn't perform uh it just dies like it's just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1772s"},{"start_seconds":1781,"text":"not going to make money and Sky just not will not um you know will not lose money from from the operations of that subd","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1781s"},{"start_seconds":1788,"text":"down on the other hand if it does well it it itself makes the vast majority of the profits like Sky just takes sort of a tiny cut which is kind of I guess the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1788s"},{"start_seconds":1796,"text":"a platform fee or something like that right um and and now you have I mean and then there's the beauty of the subd","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1796s"},{"start_seconds":1804,"text":"which is they can fail like it doesn't matter if they well I mean it's not a good thing if they fail but it's like they don't bring down the whole system yeah they don't bring down there yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1804s"},{"start_seconds":1812,"text":"yeah and this is pretty much the only actually task of sky is like Sky just has to like sky does have to have a brain and sort of have a have the core","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1812s"},{"start_seconds":1820,"text":"Atlas that does a bunch of things and thinks about stuff uh but the only thing it has to worry about is making sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1820s"},{"start_seconds":1828,"text":"that this the subs can't blow up the whole ecosystem for everyone so it only has to kind of regulate against tail risk it doesn't have to do like go to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1828s"},{"start_seconds":1837,"text":"market it doesn't have to do marketing it doesn't have to do new features or like hire hire people and fire people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1837s"},{"start_seconds":1844,"text":"and deal with compensation any of that stuff that all happens out in the subow and then if they do it well they make lots of profits if they don't do it well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1844s"},{"start_seconds":1852,"text":"they might actually die and fail and then the only thing skyt has to do is make sure that if one of them fails that's not going to bring down the others by sort of regulating it properly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1852s"},{"start_seconds":1861,"text":"and then you really have a you know like I think a pretty interesting um substrate for like a lot of cool Innovation both in like di5","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1861s"},{"start_seconds":1870,"text":"features but then also in AI itself right because every single one of these subd they all have artifacts so they all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1870s"},{"start_seconds":1877,"text":"have like the subd artifact they kind of the the structured data that basically is like the the brain and the decision- making process and kind of the legal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1877s"},{"start_seconds":1885,"text":"system in a sense uh of the subow and they can all evolve them in different ways and incorporate different LMS and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1885s"},{"start_seconds":1893,"text":"how they interact with them or use different types of AI right I use like um um like formal logic and also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1893s"},{"start_seconds":1901,"text":"probabilistic reasoning and this is all the kind of stuff that that we're really interested in in figuring out how to how to apply in sky and then it's all public","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1901s"},{"start_seconds":1910,"text":"right so they can all also learn from each other so they're kind of I mean one hand they're sort of like separate autonomous things that actually compete","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1910s"},{"start_seconds":1917,"text":"with each other often on the other hand they have this shared network effect um where they I mean and there's like kind of two major Network effects to share","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1917s"},{"start_seconds":1925,"text":"right one is the network effect of the usds stable coin and then the other is the network effect of kind of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1925s"},{"start_seconds":1933,"text":"quality of the data and the quality of the AI tools that are available to to operate their governance so I think with this you get like a really cool Best of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1933s"},{"start_seconds":1941,"text":"Both Worlds where they're like tiny little um startups basically but they they kind of they wield a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1941s"},{"start_seconds":1950,"text":"massive economies of scale right that Ben where they all sort of benefits from each","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1950s"},{"start_seconds":1957,"text":"other so I mean that that's very interesting and I think very different model indeed from kind of how most of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1957s"},{"start_seconds":1967,"text":"the web three is built right now and I think that is a direction everybody wants to go but nobody's like successfully figured out how to create","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1967s"},{"start_seconds":1975,"text":"the right incentive structure um and we should dive in more into like how the some of the AI Parts you think you're working but I'm actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1975s"},{"start_seconds":1984,"text":"curious um how do you motivate the you know entrepreneurs to effectively start a subow instead of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1984s"},{"start_seconds":1992,"text":"starting their own project doing effectly the same thing potentially and even using usds like in their startup but kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=1992s"},{"start_seconds":2001,"text":"not consider the subd like how how how do you create this like structure to really link things together yeah so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2001s"},{"start_seconds":2010,"text":"mean it's really it's a it's a cost benefit analysis right so the question is is the cost of being a sub","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2010s"},{"start_seconds":2018,"text":"down um greater than the the upside of accessing the sky Primitives and if it is then you're not going to do it right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2018s"},{"start_seconds":2027,"text":"um and so yeah so I mean of course so one objective is make the cost really really really low and then the other is make the sky perimeters as as as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2027s"},{"start_seconds":2036,"text":"attractive as possible um but and so on the cost side it's like what in the end um uh I I mean so this is still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2036s"},{"start_seconds":2045,"text":"something like the the model for kind of opening up the subow is still uh in development right now right but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2045s"},{"start_seconds":2052,"text":"basically what it's become clear that the the cost can be made very very low uh and and and way it like a way to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2052s"},{"start_seconds":2062,"text":"think about it is it's it would basically be model something like almost like a tax or actually the way I one thing I was looking at for inspiration","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2062s"},{"start_seconds":2070,"text":"is actually like um you know the the licensing model for the Unreal Engine you know which is like which is actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2070s"},{"start_seconds":2077,"text":"kind of also a taex right where like um it's like a a percentage of of profits and then you just want to make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2077s"},{"start_seconds":2085,"text":"that percentage so low that like yeah it's like a single digit percentage of your profits but like you only have to pay it if you actually have profits","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2085s"},{"start_seconds":2094,"text":"first of all and then secondly you know like the the things you get with the sky Primitives are like um you know like um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2094s"},{"start_seconds":2103,"text":"it's like an order of magnitude different if they're if they're done the right way right and I guess and and then and and there's basically I guess three","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2103s"},{"start_seconds":2110,"text":"of them right there's like three major reasons why uh projects would work with Sky um or I mean in the sense I guess in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2110s"},{"start_seconds":2119,"text":"the sense of like the very long run then the fourth reason what the sort of this the cheat reason is that there's of course a bunch of um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2119s"},{"start_seconds":2128,"text":"like I mean the same way that any ecosystem tries to develop its it like any yeah any e tries to develop it ecosystem is through like grants and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2128s"},{"start_seconds":2136,"text":"kind of top down support right but it's kind of artificial and I'm sure like yeah you know you know that as a as a blockchain Founder right that like yes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2136s"},{"start_seconds":2145,"text":"you wantan like you want to give grants and you want to get businesses going and so on but like the goal is to do that so you don't have to do it anymore right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2145s"},{"start_seconds":2154,"text":"like because otherwise it's never going to make sense if the the ecosystem only grows and only kind of scales if from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2154s"},{"start_seconds":2161,"text":"your push yeah exactly yeah you need you wanted to like get into a flywheel where you're not actually pushing it right it's p it's actually like pulling things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2161s"},{"start_seconds":2169,"text":"from you right and and kind of contributing back to the to the core yeah and that pulling thing right in a I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2169s"},{"start_seconds":2177,"text":"mean and and it's funny because Sky ecosystem actually gets quite similar to a blockchain in the whole like it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2177s"},{"start_seconds":2185,"text":"Dynamics and how it works uh but it doesn't compete at all with blockchains which is pretty cool right so like working with blockchains is like a major","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2185s"},{"start_seconds":2192,"text":"major uh kind of I mean the point of the whole thing right of like and that's also such a cool opportunity with the subd that they're really good at like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2192s"},{"start_seconds":2201,"text":"being so units of cooperation with different different other ecosystems right but yeah anyway but but with whether it's blockchain or whether it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2201s"},{"start_seconds":2209,"text":"a AI Dow ecosystem like Sky ecosystem this pull effect you're talking about it comes from economies of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2209s"},{"start_seconds":2216,"text":"scale right never where your fits like so it's like the reason why you want to be somewhere is because that's where the others are too right and there's also I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2216s"},{"start_seconds":2225,"text":"guess some like level of like sort of um what do you call that just like fundamentals so I guess that would be like for blockchain would be like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2225s"},{"start_seconds":2232,"text":"performance of the blockchain and the the the EAS of views of like the um like um the the virtual machine and that kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2232s"},{"start_seconds":2241,"text":"of stuff right but more than anything else it's none of those things it's the it's the network","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2241s"},{"start_seconds":2248,"text":"yeah yeah yeah um and so anyway okay so so what do Sky offer right so the number the first and foremost thing is like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2248s"},{"start_seconds":2256,"text":"stable coin business model right that uh and so this is something that was clear to me immediately like I mean the stable coin business model is just like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2256s"},{"start_seconds":2264,"text":"really attractive business model everybody wants to do it right Everyone likes it and it's it's obvious that you can make a lot of money from it but it only works when like it needs to kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2264s"},{"start_seconds":2273,"text":"reach a critical mass before it starts making money so with usds what the subs get is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2273s"},{"start_seconds":2281,"text":"um basically they get to make like they get to get the entire kind of business like the stable coin business model","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2281s"},{"start_seconds":2289,"text":"without having to get past that hurdle of like you need to First subsidize to a certain size before you start making money um so so I mean and the way that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2289s"},{"start_seconds":2298,"text":"works is like so in uh in Sky there's like two really important rates there's What's called the base rate and then the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2298s"},{"start_seconds":2306,"text":"savings rate right and so the base rate that's kind of the the rate that people can borrow at simplified basically uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2306s"},{"start_seconds":2314,"text":"and the savings rate that's what you can get for depositing into the system right so it's kind of like the interest rate for putting money in the bank or interest rate from borrowing for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2314s"},{"start_seconds":2321,"text":"borrowing from the bank right and then there's a spread between the base rate and the savings rate and that spread that's like what I would that's like the business model right that's the that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2321s"},{"start_seconds":2330,"text":"the profit model and then the key is that almost all of that spread goes to the subd Dows that facilitate the you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2330s"},{"start_seconds":2339,"text":"like the the users basically so there's a system and it's called the accessibility reward system it's like a way to like track which users come from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2339s"},{"start_seconds":2347,"text":"which subow uh and then those subd they get the like they get the entire profit margin there's still like a tiny um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2347s"},{"start_seconds":2356,"text":"spread that has to go to Sky call because there is some like upkeep basically for for for kind of uh keeping","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2356s"},{"start_seconds":2364,"text":"the call like basically managing the tail risk of the call but then this also means that as a subow you don't have to do that yourself right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2364s"},{"start_seconds":2372,"text":"so there's some like there's some there's basically some low lowered expenses for not having to deal with tail risk and only having to worry about kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2372s"},{"start_seconds":2380,"text":"aggressively uh getting users um uh like and then just earning the earning like the the spread and this spread is called","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2380s"},{"start_seconds":2388,"text":"the accessibility reward by the way so it's like so there's that kind of three rates there's like the the savings rate and then this accessibility reward which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2388s"},{"start_seconds":2396,"text":"this like smaller rate on top of the savings rate and the accessibility reward goes to the subow and then there is the base rate which is then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2396s"},{"start_seconds":2405,"text":"um savings rate plus accessibility reward uh is is going to be like very close to the base rate and then there's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2405s"},{"start_seconds":2413,"text":"something like maybe a 10 basis points or less um spread that goes to sky itself yeah so so basically it's yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2413s"},{"start_seconds":2421,"text":"it's like you you get the you get the the entire um stable coin business model kind of without having to bootstrap it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2421s"},{"start_seconds":2431,"text":"and then there's there's allocation system I mentioned this brief but this is like the thing this is like so spark is um spark is the first subd down right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2431s"},{"start_seconds":2438,"text":"it's like and it's like the most well-known subd down and uh spark runs a protocol Divi Landing protocol called","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2438s"},{"start_seconds":2447,"text":"spark land which is a fork of rv3 but basically the thing that sets sparland apart is it has very stable rates and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2447s"},{"start_seconds":2455,"text":"the reason why it has very stable rates is because uh the rates on sparland are not set based on like Supply demand of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2455s"},{"start_seconds":2463,"text":"people depositing into spark it's like it's directly drawing on the collateral of um usds and this is through something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2463s"},{"start_seconds":2472,"text":"called allocation system so it's basically the ability for a subow to basically borrow at the base rate from sky and then deposit into yield","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2472s"},{"start_seconds":2481,"text":"generating opportunities so um yeah that's like that's like the other major side that like sometimes they have access to like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2481s"},{"start_seconds":2489,"text":"the massive scale of the the collateral portfolio of sky and can basically deploy the usds collateral in and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2489s"},{"start_seconds":2497,"text":"liquidity into into protocols where they can then be sort of uh I guess you know sort of distributed out to end users who want to borrow it in various ways","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2497s"},{"start_seconds":2505,"text":"whether that is defi like it could be into like spark has it like its own platform right sparland um but spark","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2505s"},{"start_seconds":2512,"text":"also deposits into AA for instance and mofo um and and so uh and then there's also a whole operation of doing rwa like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2512s"},{"start_seconds":2521,"text":"depositing into treasuries and and all of these things are all just based on having access to the allocation system","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2521s"},{"start_seconds":2527,"text":"so and so these are the two like main uh sides of like the that's the stable coin business model right like the ability if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2527s"},{"start_seconds":2535,"text":"you attract users you get the whole spread for having attracted users if you find like Alpha basically if you find like a better sort of source of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2535s"},{"start_seconds":2543,"text":"collateral in terms of risk adjusted return uh then whoever finds that they get to harvest kind of the the like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2543s"},{"start_seconds":2551,"text":"spread the value that they that they've accessed um then the last thing the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2551s"},{"start_seconds":2558,"text":"final uh kind of value that Sky provides to subd is then the access to like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2558s"},{"start_seconds":2565,"text":"um the I guess you could say like the AI Network effect or something like that right where because you're building on top of the atlas and you're building and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2565s"},{"start_seconds":2574,"text":"you can kind of you know you can learn from what all the other subd are do you can learn all their internal processes all their like all of the open source AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2574s"},{"start_seconds":2581,"text":"tools and everything that's sort of used to run the sub out then it's just very easy to automate the organization instead of having to to build it from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2581s"},{"start_seconds":2588,"text":"scratch and of course and then and then to the earlier point of like this is all about netor right is like the more subs there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2588s"},{"start_seconds":2595,"text":"are the the more attractive it becomes to be a subd because you tap into like a bigger ecosystem with more powerful AI that you have available out of the box","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2595s"},{"start_seconds":2603,"text":"and this is the same for like the the sky Primitives related to like usds users and allocation system of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2603s"},{"start_seconds":2611,"text":"deploying collateral into Defi and like the bigger usds is the more attractive it is to have access to these Sky","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2611s"},{"start_seconds":2618,"text":"Primitives so the goal is basically to get the the value of having access to those three things uh above like the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2618s"},{"start_seconds":2626,"text":"kind of the fee like the ecosystem fee of of um that that that basically is is like a a slight cut in your profits","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2626s"},{"start_seconds":2634,"text":"basically but then beyond that it's like um you mean like the fully open model of subow uh means that founders of subow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2634s"},{"start_seconds":2643,"text":"they get to completely like create their token distribute the token how they want like uh raise funds or do yield farming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2643s"},{"start_seconds":2650,"text":"or do airdrops on there you know if it's like a a blockchain partner or something right they can use it to boot they can use the token to like exclusively boost","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2650s"},{"start_seconds":2657,"text":"Drive the ecosystem and basically all of these things um so that it's kind of like you can really think of it as I mean the example you're making like why","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2657s"},{"start_seconds":2666,"text":"would you use sub rather than just do the same thing but do it yourself it ends up becoming that it literally becomes a trade-off between like it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2666s"},{"start_seconds":2673,"text":"just like doing your own token except there's a small ecosystem fee on your profits and then there are these like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2673s"},{"start_seconds":2681,"text":"access to these Sky Primitives that then hopefully has a has a for you yeah yeah but basically has a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2681s"},{"start_seconds":2688,"text":"has an advantage versus the um I mean yeah it's worth more than the cost of the ecosystem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2688s"},{"start_seconds":2695,"text":"fee I mean tell makes sense and and there's definitely like this sounds like a a good trade-off for for a subset of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2695s"},{"start_seconds":2704,"text":"projects right not for everyone but for anyone who is like kind of sitting on financial flows uh but the AI offering I think is very interesting because that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2704s"},{"start_seconds":2712,"text":"that actually can be applied to a lot of projects which are not even Defi and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2712s"},{"start_seconds":2720,"text":"maybe the other aspect to touch on we kind of talked about gaming before like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2720s"},{"start_seconds":2727,"text":"how how do you think of uh gaming and and kind of AI and and intersecting that the subd Dows into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2727s"},{"start_seconds":2735,"text":"space yeah so it's funny because like I got into sort of gaming as a thing for Dows like very early","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2735s"},{"start_seconds":2744,"text":"on um in so the early stages of like realizing that like there something was wrong right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2744s"},{"start_seconds":2752,"text":"with like Maker's early uh stage after it had scaled right and so one of the things I became really obsessed with um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2752s"},{"start_seconds":2761,"text":"was this thing I mean I still I still think like a good way to describe is what I like it's basically spark and it's like kind of community excitement","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2761s"},{"start_seconds":2768,"text":"around dowas right and and sometimes you can it it manifest itself as the thing you call a cult right that there are these people that are just like aligned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2768s"},{"start_seconds":2777,"text":"and they're just like doing stuff and and kind of like they're being kind of altruistic I I call it actually semi- altruistic right because it's like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2777s"},{"start_seconds":2784,"text":"they're helping each other but they doing it because they have this like shared um upside that they get from helping each other right but there's no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2784s"},{"start_seconds":2793,"text":"like direct coordination like like no one gets you know if if you're a Bitcoin holder and you go out and you shi Bitcoin like you're going to benefit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2793s"},{"start_seconds":2801,"text":"from that a little bit but mostly most of that benefit is going to go to everyone else right and you're not going to see your share of that right but still because people are sort of seeing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2801s"},{"start_seconds":2810,"text":"everyone else is doing it then then so somehow sort of like it manifests anyway right and so this basically is alignment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2810s"},{"start_seconds":2818,"text":"I guess you could you can just think of it this right this is like trust and Alignment um and it's super super powerful in Dows right it's really like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2818s"},{"start_seconds":2826,"text":"a a sort of a part of the the superpower of dows and I think the existence of this phenomenon was a the reason why","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2826s"},{"start_seconds":2833,"text":"people were so excited so super super excited about Dows early on um then what kind of killed it off was when you then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2833s"},{"start_seconds":2841,"text":"you run into iron law bureaucracy right then once you realize okay some of stuff you can have people just do for free you have to pay for it and then it becomes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2841s"},{"start_seconds":2849,"text":"political and then suddenly I mean the moment you see some corrupt bureaucrat you kind of lose all excitement right nobody wants to like volunteer to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2849s"},{"start_seconds":2858,"text":"benefit somebody who's just ripping them off right so it's very much like it can sort of grow if everyone has it but it can also very easily kind of just get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2858s"},{"start_seconds":2866,"text":"destroyed um but I also think that if you have a lot of it you also have the kind of the spirit to deal with the corruption when you see it right to take","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2866s"},{"start_seconds":2874,"text":"action and sort of do the hard decisions in governance like getting rid of the inefficiencies and make yeah making the hard decisions and so right okay so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2874s"},{"start_seconds":2881,"text":"where I'm going with all of this like how can you how can you build this right how can you like grow a community to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2881s"},{"start_seconds":2889,"text":"kind of become more tight-knit and more aligned and so on right and that's where I actually think that gaming and like Virtual Worlds and like virtual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2889s"},{"start_seconds":2898,"text":"interactions is uh it's like a really interesting um kind of Avenue in to try to to to to create this this um this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2898s"},{"start_seconds":2906,"text":"power right and in the real world we have it with like nationalism like people I mean if you live in the same land then naturally you're aligned and if you like speak the same language and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2906s"},{"start_seconds":2915,"text":"there's all these things that kind of make people naturally form a a tribe right and and sort of reinforce the fact","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2915s"},{"start_seconds":2922,"text":"that they're they're they're working together and they can trust each other and so on and so um my I mean kind of a very early","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2922s"},{"start_seconds":2931,"text":"Vision I had for the subd was that they would basically be you know they would kind of create sort of their own culture","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2931s"},{"start_seconds":2938,"text":"and have cultural interactions with each other through the medium of web 3 gaming basically um and then as we sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2938s"},{"start_seconds":2947,"text":"progress more and more heavily into Ai and having AI playing such a predominant role in all this then I think what we're seeing now is this kind of AI driven","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2947s"},{"start_seconds":2956,"text":"gaming as well like these like AI gaming worlds right and then it the way it all ties together is it's sort of like it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2956s"},{"start_seconds":2963,"text":"like the right that that if if a subow is kind of like an AI or you can represent it as an AI or and then the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2963s"},{"start_seconds":2972,"text":"AIS can play games uh and you can interact with AIS in Virtual Worlds then you're starting to get to a point where you can sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2972s"},{"start_seconds":2979,"text":"you know you can actually you know have a relationship with what used to be just like a I mean a boring economic construct","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2979s"},{"start_seconds":2987,"text":"right but you can make it sort of interesting and meaningful and create like bonds between the humans involved right um and I think that's actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2987s"},{"start_seconds":2996,"text":"results in like like massive potential economic benefit and then then that kind of spins around means like okay if you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=2996s"},{"start_seconds":3003,"text":"can create better economics through the creation of like art and games then you can actually fund those things with it right so this is like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3003s"},{"start_seconds":3012,"text":"wa for us to sort of get cool things that we like because when we have cool things that we like we can you know we trust each other's more when we kind of do it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3012s"},{"start_seconds":3021,"text":"together and that makes us create more value and then it could you know like so I think that's like a really interesting thing to to sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3021s"},{"start_seconds":3029,"text":"pursue um yeah and this is why you know this is what led to this conversation right that we were talking about then the um well was it yeah I tweeted I was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3029s"},{"start_seconds":3038,"text":"asking about uh launchpads for AI agents right and then you mentioned the um this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3038s"},{"start_seconds":3047,"text":"unchain AI system that near made so maybe we can we can you can describe that we can talk about that a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3047s"},{"start_seconds":3055,"text":"yeah yeah so I mean on our side kind of obviously been thinking about a lot of the same Concepts and at the same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3055s"},{"start_seconds":3063,"text":"time kind of there's a critical piece for me which is how do we ensure that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3063s"},{"start_seconds":3070,"text":"the AI itself is not manipulated with is not you know trained adversar but even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3070s"},{"start_seconds":3077,"text":"beyond that is not trained in such a way to make money for some Corporation but is actually on the side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3077s"},{"start_seconds":3084,"text":"of the you know individual or Community a DA organization like whoever you know whoever is using it it should be on that side not on the side of Corporation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3084s"},{"start_seconds":3093,"text":"providing you as a service and so that's I call it like user owned Ai and so kind of fundamental","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3093s"},{"start_seconds":3100,"text":"block there building block there is how do we actually run AI in such a way that we know which model was run which code was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3100s"},{"start_seconds":3108,"text":"run around it and we can certify that and uh that on itself is enabling to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3108s"},{"start_seconds":3116,"text":"have autonomous agents which are effectively can run themselves and so neari is building that is like agent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3116s"},{"start_seconds":3124,"text":"hosting platform where you can run agents we have kind of our own framework but we're actually working on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3124s"},{"start_seconds":3132,"text":"uh you know you can do L chain we're working on getting El Lia as well up and the the goal there is you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3132s"},{"start_seconds":3141,"text":"you can have a full intend verification that this model was run on this output it also is privately run so you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3141s"},{"start_seconds":3149,"text":"actually upload your private data for individuals or for communities and then if you want to do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3149s"},{"start_seconds":3156,"text":"any transaction on chain you can certify on chain as well that this was run kind of in this secure Manner and so now you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3156s"},{"start_seconds":3164,"text":"can actually have Smart contracts on chain that represent agents effectively is their representation on chain which both","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3164s"},{"start_seconds":3173,"text":"can call like the kind of this a agent inside tees and then can receive back and validate that indeed this agent ran","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3173s"},{"start_seconds":3182,"text":"this model on this output and act based on that decision again to contrast it with current agents like all of them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3182s"},{"start_seconds":3191,"text":"around on somebody else's computer they're using open a Keys open AI went offline for a couple of hours whole agent stopped working uh so there's no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3191s"},{"start_seconds":3199,"text":"liess guarantees obviously open AI can just ban everyone like tomorrow they can decide hey we don't like crypto let's just ban every","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3199s"},{"start_seconds":3207,"text":"every agent that uses that does crypto and uh obviously like you know tomorrow they're going to launch a new model that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3207s"},{"start_seconds":3214,"text":"like decide you know will is biased for example to sell usds and now your you know your governance framework is now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3214s"},{"start_seconds":3223,"text":"kind of go in in the wrong direction right so so it's like like there's no guarantees on kind of on decision making","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3223s"},{"start_seconds":3230,"text":"effect on the core decision making right and so that's really what we try to fix at the core and then build infrastructure around to make it available on chain make it offchain kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3230s"},{"start_seconds":3239,"text":"of in all kinds of use cases yeah I was thinking Al like I mean I feel like the major problem is also solved because this is just something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3239s"},{"start_seconds":3247,"text":"I've seen popping up on X recently is these people asking like what you know so we have all these AI coins but like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3247s"},{"start_seconds":3255,"text":"what exactly is the connection of like the AI coin to like the AI account right yeah and typically there's none right it's just a meme coin sort of like like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3255s"},{"start_seconds":3263,"text":"it really is mcoin that there's an agent that talks about it yeah yeah there's like a separate like centralized Twitter","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3263s"},{"start_seconds":3271,"text":"account controlled by somebody who hopefully is actually running an AI to control the Twitter account or maybe they just running it on their own who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3271s"},{"start_seconds":3279,"text":"knows right but and then there's a meme coin that's sort of like yeah me yeah what however the mechanism of mean coin is Right attaches","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3279s"},{"start_seconds":3288,"text":"to that but with this system you could actually like have a a coin that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3288s"},{"start_seconds":3295,"text":"directly like control something like what's the prompt that goes into what llm and you'd be able to verify it and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3295s"},{"start_seconds":3304,"text":"guess uh it's like a swarm that sort of offers the um llms is that how it works so it's like a it's like a keybo network","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3304s"},{"start_seconds":3313,"text":"almost uh well it's like a te Cloud yeah so there's a cloud of machines and so we ideally want to have liveness guarantees","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3313s"},{"start_seconds":3320,"text":"as well so that even if you know a specific machine went down some other machine will pick up the work from the same state but like could","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3320s"},{"start_seconds":3328,"text":"anyone could anyone join that like if they just know that this is the thing you want to run so then I'm I'll run it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3328s"},{"start_seconds":3335,"text":"and you know it cost me 10 cents and well I don't know how much it cost to run it but whatever cost me a dollar to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3335s"},{"start_seconds":3342,"text":"run it pay me a dollar and 10% extra profit so that's a plan uh so yeah so that anybody can join this uh like on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3342s"},{"start_seconds":3351,"text":"infrastructure level and yeah you specify effectively how much you like how much you charge per hour for your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3351s"},{"start_seconds":3357,"text":"GPU and Hardware Etc and uh when the mod like when all the effectively there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3357s"},{"start_seconds":3364,"text":"payment Channel attached to when you do inference or when you execute any of those agents and so that payment channel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3364s"},{"start_seconds":3372,"text":"gets distributed to the hardware provider to the model provider to agent Builder and which can also go to the to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3372s"},{"start_seconds":3380,"text":"the Dow for example that controls the agent uh we haven't opened that yet um kind of you know finishing up some of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3380s"},{"start_seconds":3387,"text":"these things but yeah that's a plan yeah I mean as long as that's theoretically possible then I don't think people really care about like if like if you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3387s"},{"start_seconds":3396,"text":"can just simply solve the the coin and is you know is the coin related to the AI or not right that's that's already a big deal yeah I mean the simplest thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3396s"},{"start_seconds":3405,"text":"indeed is like just making the coin to be Dow like you can vote on upgrading the agent or changing things Etc like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3405s"},{"start_seconds":3412,"text":"that's that's kind of the simplest thing to do but then you can obviously expect from there what what the token holders","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3412s"},{"start_seconds":3420,"text":"can do and how maybe they there's like economic value also flowing from that yeah so what I think is really cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3420s"},{"start_seconds":3427,"text":"about this is that there's obviously like a really interesting um Synergy between exactly this and then exactly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3427s"},{"start_seconds":3435,"text":"what sky is doing with the the atlas and the artifact right but maybe it's like a different Synergy than what you would imagine I guess right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3435s"},{"start_seconds":3443,"text":"because the thing that what I've I mean well it comes basically immediately comes back to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3443s"},{"start_seconds":3450,"text":"um I mean all the stuff I basically was just ranting about for like 45 minutes right which is that if you have an agent like this like so now you've connected","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3450s"},{"start_seconds":3459,"text":"the a agent to the token and the agent is like I don't know doing real stuff and and making money or something right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3459s"},{"start_seconds":3467,"text":"um but you're still going to have the issue that like whoever like like the governance of the agent is still easily","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3467s"},{"start_seconds":3474,"text":"going to be a total mess right right and even the agent itself might be a like I mean this is actually one of the top issue maybe the number one challenge in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3474s"},{"start_seconds":3483,"text":"AI right now I think right is that most of the time it's not the right choice right like you only want to use it for certain things so like the idea of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3483s"},{"start_seconds":3491,"text":"having an AI just like Run free and be like oh yeah it's chat surely it knows how to let it do do everything yeah yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3491s"},{"start_seconds":3498,"text":"but also it's a but but on the other hand if you have a token where it's just like oh well that you know then have the token like override the AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3498s"},{"start_seconds":3506,"text":"uh then the problem is you immediately run I mean basically the problem becomes governance security right then you immediately run into issue of like well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3506s"},{"start_seconds":3513,"text":"then the big token holder like 51% attacks and takes all the money right and and uh it becomes like a like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3513s"},{"start_seconds":3521,"text":"decentralization aspect kind of goes away because it's not safe to be a minority holder of this right or like you you kind of you're still kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3521s"},{"start_seconds":3530,"text":"relying on like the the the big voting block that um that kind of uh like makes make sure it runs and make sure it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3530s"},{"start_seconds":3537,"text":"secure and so on right and this is kind of what actually the subtown model of Sky offers in a sense is like and I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3537s"},{"start_seconds":3546,"text":"and this is also something is really unique about the subd and so it is that they don't actually have like sort of total sovereignty over their own root","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3546s"},{"start_seconds":3554,"text":"access the subdab right so what that means is they can't perform governance attacks uh so like so like so basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3554s"},{"start_seconds":3563,"text":"I mean the artifacts right the the legal the the the rule sets of a subd um they're just like defined off I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3563s"},{"start_seconds":3571,"text":"mean they're just like held offchain in these like servers like so it's like distributed servers where you have the artifacts or distribut across it's not like a blockchain right it's like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3571s"},{"start_seconds":3579,"text":"simpler blockchain like thing that just contains the the data um and they then specify this is how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3579s"},{"start_seconds":3587,"text":"it's supposed to do and they can they specify was a lot of human like a sort of like human values as well right which is something like you can't cheat people you can't like fraud defraud people and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3587s"},{"start_seconds":3596,"text":"so on right and then what happens is if somebody creates a sub dial and they write in the rules you know we can't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3596s"},{"start_seconds":3603,"text":"defraud people and something something right like let's say something like if you if you buy the subd out token uh and then you know it's gonna","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3603s"},{"start_seconds":3613,"text":"maximum spend 10% of its income on um you know on on contribut expenses right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3613s"},{"start_seconds":3621,"text":"and 90% is going to go back to the Token of the profits right then maybe you have the big the founder is a big whale and then this person just is like yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3621s"},{"start_seconds":3629,"text":"actually no we're going to pay all of it for you know we're going to do this thing this big project and that we're going to need all the money to do this project and then they just take the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3629s"},{"start_seconds":3638,"text":"money for the project and sort of use kind of use politics right to like they don't directly rug pull right but sort of like soft rug pull of like which is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3638s"},{"start_seconds":3645,"text":"the kind of stuff that happens right and to your point it's sort of like humans are naturally drawn towards this like even good people end up sort of always going in this direction if there's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3645s"},{"start_seconds":3654,"text":"like a check on them doing this and this is like what the atlas offers basically that Sky itself you can sort of appeal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3654s"},{"start_seconds":3662,"text":"so it's like a legal system in a sense that you can sort of there's like several layers of so sky is like a supreme court of the all the subd right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3662s"},{"start_seconds":3670,"text":"so yeah and there's also intermediate CTS right so it's not like ay thing where everything has to be to vote for skyh holders but there's actually like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3670s"},{"start_seconds":3678,"text":"specialized subow called nepu yeah the subes have their own like weird names but basically the specialized subtes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3678s"},{"start_seconds":3686,"text":"that act as these like like basically um like the sort of first layer appeal and then the the intermediate appeals court","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3686s"},{"start_seconds":3694,"text":"basically and then the Supreme Court is like the sky vote itself um and so that so this is a place where like it can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3694s"},{"start_seconds":3703,"text":"this is a system that is specialized in like handling exactly the stuff that AI can't handle right like AI is great most of the time then at some point it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3703s"},{"start_seconds":3711,"text":"hallucinates or like it it just screws up some really basic stuff or or people manipulate it to yeah manipulated or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3711s"},{"start_seconds":3719,"text":"attacked right or there's a governance like there's something like there's a governance attack and like 51% he says well uh we need to do a big project so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3719s"},{"start_seconds":3726,"text":"send me all the money like that's actually something where AI usually can't detect that right it'll be like well I mean yeah it looks suspicious","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3726s"},{"start_seconds":3734,"text":"that he wants all the money but on the other hand it's 51% of the voters B project yeah yeah majority wants it right so but but that's where like human","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3734s"},{"start_seconds":3743,"text":"politics actually works for this kind of stuff right where you escalate it and you have it go through the sort of court systems um and there's like a penalty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3743s"},{"start_seconds":3751,"text":"for abuse of this right yeah then uh you can of course it's slow and it's costly to like try to overturn this kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3751s"},{"start_seconds":3759,"text":"stuff um but the point is to to sort of like establish a like a Nash equilibrium right where like you just don't you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3759s"},{"start_seconds":3768,"text":"don't want to do this people don't want to do it because they know they get caught yeah yeah like eventually like the gears will grind and will eventually get caught right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3768s"},{"start_seconds":3776,"text":"um so I think combining those two things actually I think is super exciting because it gives you this like like it it gives you that final step of like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3776s"},{"start_seconds":3784,"text":"truly truly like a decentralized AI that really is itself in a sense right like in a sense like yeah somebody might have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3784s"},{"start_seconds":3793,"text":"60% of the tokens and you might only have 20% of the tokens but that doesn't mean this person with 60% of the tokens","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3793s"},{"start_seconds":3801,"text":"can just like fully reprogram the AI and be like now it's a different thing and now you know now it's serving me","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3801s"},{"start_seconds":3808,"text":"only because that could be really I mean and that could be described in sort of human language right like values like so like this thing is always going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3808s"},{"start_seconds":3816,"text":"focusing in this general area um and and and would actually it would actually be meaningful to have that right because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3816s"},{"start_seconds":3823,"text":"that sort of I mean that question of like the general focus like the general alignment of this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3823s"},{"start_seconds":3832,"text":"AI um ultimately can be inter Red by humans right by sort of bringing through the sky","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3832s"},{"start_seconds":3839,"text":"Machinery um and and of course and this becomes very scalable right because of course you can have lots and lots of kind of edge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3839s"},{"start_seconds":3847,"text":"systems uh that all kind of roll up into these intermediate courts and then the whole thing only fails if Sky fails","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3847s"},{"start_seconds":3855,"text":"right so as long as Sky maintains governance security uh then you could actually you know you can really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3855s"},{"start_seconds":3861,"text":"um yeah you could run at like a a giant swarm of these kind of of of Agents um and you can even do stuff and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3861s"},{"start_seconds":3869,"text":"so because I mean you get a legal system for free out of the box right you can even do stuff like a complex legal system for agents right so they can do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3869s"},{"start_seconds":3878,"text":"like any kind of agree like they can do sort of verbal agreements in a sense right like so this is actually this is we working on on this exact thing which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3878s"},{"start_seconds":3886,"text":"is legal agreements through intents so where agent can is Agent or user can issue like hey I want this to be done","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3886s"},{"start_seconds":3894,"text":"and then somebody says yes I'll do it and that creates an actual like natural language based agreement with you know maybe some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3894s"},{"start_seconds":3902,"text":"payments exchange some delivery some you know continuous payments Etc but indeed there is a dispute resolution process that needs to happen if the outcome was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3902s"},{"start_seconds":3911,"text":"not achieved but I actually think this itself I mean what you're describing is really good complement to this protocol","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3911s"},{"start_seconds":3918,"text":"because to me this protocol solves all of the uh challenges we discussed earlier where it's like hey how do you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3918s"},{"start_seconds":3925,"text":"how do you get to specific outcome right like not do more marketing but actually like hey I want 100,000 you know Impressions on the website or I want a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3925s"},{"start_seconds":3933,"text":"Twitter campaign that gets whatever million impressions like now you can issue that and and this can be done by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3933s"},{"start_seconds":3940,"text":"people by organization or by a agent coming in and doing this and then if you have a dispute resolution system that can come in and say like actually uh it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3940s"},{"start_seconds":3949,"text":"didn't do it like even though maybe it's a million impressions but they posted porn for example and so so like it's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3949s"},{"start_seconds":3956,"text":"really the like exactly what was asked even though the specific metric was achieved like because that that's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3956s"},{"start_seconds":3963,"text":"biggest problem is like there's sometimes like specific metric outcome is achieved but the way it's achieved is wrong right and that's where you do need","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3963s"},{"start_seconds":3971,"text":"some way of like really diving in and understanding the like the natural language and human human part of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3971s"},{"start_seconds":3978,"text":"equation at least for now until a get way better at this and and potentially like AI will be part of the dispute","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3978s"},{"start_seconds":3986,"text":"process right like there can be like AI did like overview first and say like yeah I mean this was wrong or this was correct and then like the Supreme Court","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3986s"},{"start_seconds":3994,"text":"kind of comes in later or you know this intermediate court so yeah I think this is very interesting and kind of fits really well into model as well the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=3994s"},{"start_seconds":4001,"text":"building um so I mean we we're actually super overtime so uh I wanted to thank a lot for the conversation I think it was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=4001s"},{"start_seconds":4009,"text":"super interesting to me I hope everybody enjoyed it as well and uh there uh you know I'm sure there's going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=4009s"},{"start_seconds":4018,"text":"more coming out around this from both of our sides so I'm excited I'm excited to work together this yep thanks it was super exciting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=4018s"},{"start_seconds":4027,"text":"and sorry for uh yeah taking so much overtime but this is what happens when you I mean if you're talking about blockchain and AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=4027s"},{"start_seconds":4035,"text":"together I know whole thing and agents and disputes and organizations I know this is the this is the jam","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ&t=4035s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=colcFGwKbyQ","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/colcFGwKbyQ"}