{"id":"XAyi1VPY2Rc","title":"DevHub Live 47 with Peter Salomonsen","description":"NEAR is the Blockchain for AI\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nNEAR AI: https://near.ai/\nIntents: https://near.org/intents\nChain Abstraction: https://www.proximity.dev/\nSharding: https://nearone.org/\n\nFor the devs\nGitHub: https://github.com/near \nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nDevhub: https://devhub.near.page/ @NEARDevHub\n\nConnect with socials\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \n#NEAR #nearprotocol #NEARAI","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2025-04-24T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/XAyi1VPY2Rc/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"Tell me what you want. Tell me what you want. What you want? What you want? What you want? You want you Hello. Hello. This is a weird view. I don't like this. Let's change it back. Why aren't we shifting here? My settings are all messed up. That's okay. We are live and I'm going to fix this as we go. That's the fun of being live. Uh, thank you everyone for joining us another DevHub live. Uh, super excited about this episode. So, one of the things that I really like to highlight here, there we go. Is having developers on who are actually building and we talk a lot about different products that come in here and people show their different things. And uh my guest today, Peter, if you have not seen him in the ecosystem, if you've been around near, you've probably seen his name in the ecosystem, but been doing a lot of different work for years now. Um both experimenting and trying different things, actually building some stuff here and there. And this is the type of stuff that I think anyone who is building period, this is not a web 3, it's not a crypto thing. If you are a developer and you have different interests and you are looking to how do I actually put this into action, how do I actually start to explore different technology, things like that, Peter's your guy. Um, so, uh, I would highly encourage everyone to just take a minute and look more into some of the stuff that Peter talks about. Uh, it's really pretty cool things like that. He also has a book he just released which we're going to talk all about as well. And so, there's just a lot of great stuff here. So I am super excited. So I do not want to wait much longer. So let's bring Peter up to the stage. And Peter, how are you? Hello Joe. Great to be here. Thank you. So yeah, thank thanks for coming on. So let's start at the very kind of high level for yourself. Who is Peter? Who are you? Well, yeah, like you introduced uh I'm a developer. I loved uh different uh technologies. Uh it's been a passion for as long as I can remember. Uh started on the Commodore 64, Commodore Amigga. Uh was part of the demo scene. We built a lot of graphical and music demos and and uh tried to tweak the maximum out of this uh computers. That's still going on. Uh there's still an active demo scene competing about still the same things on these legacy machines which is really exciting. Uh and uh for me um yeah so so this is also kind of a part of my professional career as well. Uh been into lots of different industries. Uh finance industries is one of them. Uh where I work now in a company called banksoft which is about banking software. But I always kind of uh have to explore a bit more on my own as well. And um uh one one of the technologies I I kind of started with uh when when it was fresh actually that's that must be more than 10 years ago now when when we saw the kind of first uh uh traces of web assembly or or the kind of the beginning of web assembly trying to to get something powerful uh from the web uh which I always always thought that the web is kind of the platform unifi ing um all the all the devices, all the platforms, all the architectures, the operating systems. Uh we can all use the web uh there and and uh uh and I also think you know in the '9s there there was this Java technology trying to also uh fulfill that same mission. It didn't kind of go exactly there though Java is still strong but not for that purpose. Mhm. Uh but uh but the web has kind of established uh that uh part and um and with the web assembly technology it actually made it possible to to also get those uh power in demanding apps um uh kind of uh uh also to the browser. So games uh and uh and for me it was about the music which was also my passion in in since the very beginning when I started with computers. Yeah. with his trackers on the amigga. Uh and now with web assembly, it's about uh kind of uh I also did a music sequencer digital audio workstation in Java uh but with the purpose of the crossplatform but with web assembly. Uh it's kind of it's so close or I I actually don't use this desktop dows anymore. I I use the uh I I use the web assembly app uh where where you can create the music in the browser. You have the low latency when you press the keys on the keyboard. Uh you can you can kind of uh get the same quality of the sounds. Uh and just as powerful when it comes to synthesizing and all that stuff. And um and then you know uh blockchain is kind of the when when you have the web to create your music but also to publish your music. You need kind of a powerful platform to uh to publish and and this is where uh I found near because Yeah. Nice. So so now I I already went far into Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Lot so much to get through. Where you? Yeah. So, I want to I want to go back a little bit here and the the music and and development piece is really interesting and the part that I am really curious about is can you talk a little bit about how you have these two passions. You're interested in programming, you're interested in building software, and then you have music. what made you want to start to kind of combine those two things together? Yeah, I think you know uh this was also from the very beginning. Uh I wanted to I was interested in programming. I was interested in music. Um I I think you know being able to combine those two. One thing is to to create sounds which you if you're going to create a synthesizer and you need to to code uh or you you need to tweak those uh kind of um all the parameters of a sound and and essentially that's code. So uh if you want to have full control which I want. So so um and when it comes to music uh also kind of sequencing uh like you see in in uh if you're a plan piano player you are following this sheets note sheets and and you can also express that kind of same notation in in code. So for example in my case in in JavaScript it's an excellent language for expressing this music. So you you can have a command for each note for the C D E you you can create uh some structures for having the intervals between the notes and so so that was the thing that is what the web assembly music project is about. It's like um you can write uh can express this music in code and now I know you know AI is good at writing code. So, so that's the next step I you know. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the term vibe coding can actually have also meaning combine it with actual vibes. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I think it's interesting to see your progression in just understanding kind of like how you pull these pieces together. I like that you talked about here just now of like trying to figure out like what is the right language for things and working through that different process of like okay here's how I got to assembly script here's how you know I think that JavaScript is serving the my needs best for different things so that for you as a developer and I because I think this is really relevant to a lot of people is like what goes into that decision decision making. Was it simply just the flexibility of it or was it more or less like how much you could still contribute back to it? Well, uh when it comes to choosing the language for for creating music, it was about uh efficiency and being able to do coding live on stage even. And and that was the whole idea. If you see some of the videos that I have, you can see that I'm programming while the music is playing and and there's so little code that you have to alter. So, so that you can kind of like a DJ. You can you can uh you can change the uh you can change the beat, you can change the melodies while you are coding. You can also with this assembly script also that was kind of the purpose to be able to to tweak the sound while it is playing and uh right assembly script is such a fast compiler and it runs entirely in the browser so there's no server involved. So so then uh that means that you can you can actually get a live uh music playing and experience on stage and the instrument is the code. Yeah. Yeah. Is and and is that kind of so I know like your full-time professional job is obviously as working as programmer but like is this experimentation part and the part with even maybe before the music stuff is that what kind of led you down that path of being able to create? Is it or was it something like all right I'm already in this how do I start to expand this to my other hobbies like because music was its own hobby things like that? Yeah. Well, uh I'm not sure if I understand the question fully, but uh it's you mean like uh how uh if the music was something I already had uh um Yeah. Yeah. just kind of for people who you know so it's like the thing of where I think is always interesting for developers is like if you work in construction oftent times like your hobby isn't doing more construction but developers seem to have these side things that are constantly tied into programming but you've done something really interesting that you've actually tied it into music. So like which is also its own thing. And so like how did that all fit together? Yeah. So so you know for me kind of sitting with a piano just playing some stuff is is some it's a re relaxation thing. It's an energizing thing. It gives me inspiration and and when I can do that in combination also with programming uh it's even more uh inspiring because um right and then I can also u kind of um I I can take it even farther because uh further because the the what I can do right there and then on the piano is kind of uh right there and then Uh it's also a magic thing because you you play something and but you will never hear it again. You you improvise something that will be right there and then. But uh but uh but when you also combine it with programming, you can yeah uh actually one of the two the interesting thing is that you can record from your uh keyboard and have that uh recording translated code. Interesting. Interesting. So but but yeah I think this is um this is just about uh passion to to explore to to uh to actually it's a it's a way of creating things creativity really uh I don't know if it deserve it if it's if it can be called art but it's it's it's more like yeah definitely art it's just something I do to to yeah for for the joy of it uh and mostly for myself and and if I actually see that others enjoy too and that was obviously the case when when I was invited to this first web assembly summit uh in in 2020 uh which was a great experience where I was uh where I was uh together with all these web assembly uh gurus I would say all these founders of of Web Assembly were there and then it was me, this unknown guy from Norway doing some music stuff that was with with the hat. I should have had Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I think it is is very interesting and the experimentation part is really curious to me because definitely I mean I think you know you're definitely making art here and the creativity part I get all of that but then like it seems like you've then taken this exploring and creativity and tried to also apply it to some stuff here on Near with blockchain of showing like it's almost like proof of capability, right? Like you've a lot of the experiments you've done that I've seen over the years are about showing like look at how powerful this actually is and you can do this now. So with that said, maybe let's go into like what then led you to start building on near and kind of coming here. Yeah. So because near was um uh uh the first thing uh was the uh because of the size of these web assembly music uh files. They are uh less than 30 kilobytes. So and they contain all the audio, all the music, everything is one. So, so you know that's that's less than a paper you write at school. Uh less characters. Uh but imagine that. Uh and you have a full piece of music. You have instruments sounding almost like real instruments. And uh my idea was that I don't have to publish this on uh streaming services. I don't have to uh uh create a W file. I don't have to create an MP3 file. I can actually publish this web assembly file as is and and at that time also the NFTts were very popular. I I still think it's a an amazing concept and I think actually this uh this is I have not given up on NFTs. I I actually want to do more with NFTs. Um and uh and this is uh where you can actually take this web assembly file. You can put it on chain. So it's not like a file on the side that the NFT is linked to. It's there. The content is stored on the blockchain. And and when I found that near uh had um web assembly smart contracts because that was what I was looking for when it uh when it comes to to a blockchain. I thought someone must have done this. So I started looking for that in 2019. Uh yeah. or was it even 2018? I don't know. But um uh there's a question on stack overflow back then from when I started from me when I started to explore it. Yeah. Um uh and then I found out okay we we can store this on it's possible to store uh on air on chain. Uh I can also make the smart contract in web assembly. Uh which is great because that enables to to do more than the typical blockchain just transaction stuff. You can actually for for me this is is like the cloud uh platform alternatives, right? Because you can do web hosting. you can host. So, so yeah, I can put up the entire backend logic for this web page that is going to host the music. Yeah. Uh eventually also we got this web 4 from Vlad Gisha which allows us also to put the front end there and so we have everything there. But um uh uh but yeah, so so that was my first attempt in in early 2021 uh where I published a piece of music on chain uh several pieces of music. I also created some interactive demos where you can create music yourself. You can remix music. You can and it was also connected to NFTTS still up there. uh and and various experiments as you said here in the beginning. So and and it also kind of brings me back to the early days to this Commodore days also because we were playing with assembly language back right they are still doing that. uh uh I I think you know we should move on to the web because then we have an audience that is but but this web assembly kind of revives that concept on the web um Mhm. which I think is maybe it's a bit nerdy but uh no but what but what I think is really interesting though is you're still proving the abilities of the technology right so even if like conceptually like okay this is a very niche thing right now for like what I'm trying to do it's it is showing some capabilities because like you said you are so constrained trained by some of the you know uh abilities of the of both the size and the blockchain speed and everything else that yet you're still able to do these interesting experiments. I do just think it was it's something that uh we don't see a lot of right now. It's a lot of it right is just trying to push out more of the same for the most part where I do feel like this you have continued to do that. So for you as you complete these experiments is that something where it's like okay I did it. I've, you know, I've proven the case. Maybe you might use it something in something personal, but then it's now let's see what else I can do. Or is there a desire to do something more with some of these experiments? I absolutely uh I think you know uh though I still has been experiments, there's been a proof concept. uh I've been lucky to sell a few NFTts with these things and and also got uh support for my projects and so on, but uh uh still I actually want to to do something real with this uh and uh and and then the blockchain is essential and there is um I think uh we we will see uh some more writing about that soon But like the uh this web assembly music they uh plugins so to say they kind of do they can do the same as as the these instruments that producers use now in platforms like Cubase and Logic uh and so on and this it's actually a chapter in my book of this uh on this as well uh where where you can create a um an instrument plugin an audio effect plugin um uh using this web assembly. Uh but then you actually need as a music producer, you want to have the unique sound. You want to know that the sound is yours. You you want to know that other producers don't immediately can just replicate or buy the same sound as you have. and to have that uniqueness to prove that ownership there is NFTTS and there is blockchain and so when you can also store the instrument on blockchain then that that's a really I think not just kind of nice concept it's actually a real use case uh and uh and then we need NFTTS uh we we even need the funible tokens to to be able to to pay for this Maybe we want to to do streaming services uh things like that. Uh uh one of my experience experiments is also kind of uh paying for using AI uh uh using funible tokens. Now I know that also near AI is kind of free but still I I I expect that this kind of requires quite heavy machinery. So, so sure. So, so AI services has to be uh compensated somehow. So, so I think um all of this uh it uh it needs the mechanisms of the blockchain to to provide uh user ownership to provide ownership to um to the asset which is in in this case is the sound but also uh and also a mechanisms for for the transactions and uh and so that's where also my experiments go beyond just music. It actually also I actually drag it into all my other work as well because I uh I um I even bring it into this uh uh banking. I I had a presentation a few weeks ago showing uh uh how to use AI to to do transactions with uh uh with a banking application. So uh um the it all these things that I learned from the web assembly music project. Yeah. And back then has actually also kind of uh in the driver for everything I do elsewhere. And also this you know this project of uh this JavaScript engine running inside uh smart contract inside Rust and that was also that is also an a very important piece in in this uh thing that I have in my mind this so so I really uh yeah to to answer your question yes I I do really want to do something more and this is not just a oneoff thing where I want to say I've done is and then it's it's interesting I you know and web assembly still I feel like is not super well understood right so there are multiple blockchains that are kind of using it um it is pretty powerful I think there's a lot of websites that people don't realize are using it um there I know like Apple pushed it really heavily for a while a lot of stuff that they were doing what is is it about I guess the technology of web assembly and we talked a little bit about it so far but like just as we look towards the future here how is this how do you see this becoming the main standard for where software is is running yeah I think uh now we have web assembly is kind of uh empowering the web with uh uh the capability of running this uh performance critical software uh and also this real time uh capabilities. So, so everything that you see in desktop applications today. So being able to uh if there are graphical intensive applications, games, um music apps, uh so so that part is I think web assembly there are no need no need for these plugins that we have had in the past like flash or or java applets or silver light all of those are gone. But web assembly uh is is uh is filling that gap and and doing it more better than any of these. And and then it comes to the server side where web assembly is kind of um less explored. I think uh web assembly on smart contracts on near is is a great thing. It actually it it is the same concept as uh if you use web assembly on edge computing or or in cloud computing. Uh what the the thing with near uh is that um it's actually combined with a transaction. So everything when the data is altered by this web assembly code um so so think as think of the web assembly module as the gatekeeper to your database, right? And that part is is fully kind of uh handled by by the blockchain near in this case. Uh and then we see now that uh web assembly is coming to to cloud orchestration platforms like kubernetes. So and what does that mean? Uh well and why do we need it? Because we we've had docker containers for for a long time now. Mh. But the problem with a docker container is that it actually costs quite a bit to sure run it. If you have a net application for example, you you easily see that it occupies like half a gigabyte of memory. Oh yeah. Even when doing nothing. So so it's a environmental problem. We are we are saying blockchain is the environmental problem but that's not the case. Especially if you look at near it's not using it's only using energy when it does something. The problem with a docker container it's that it's kind of running there idle like a car waiting for the green light. Sure. So so so this is where web assembly also can make a difference when it comes to the container technology because a web assembly container you can switch off when it's not doing anything. you can uh you can uh because it starts so fast. So when the API request comes in when there's an event on the event queue you can start the container right there and then and you can shut it down when the request has been uh uh fulfilled. So so then we are talking about that's green technology that's kind of also costefficient uh technology. So, so we can what we now today need uh 10 servers for we can well I should rather say 100 because we can reduce from 100 to one right is is that why though also like blockchain makes sense because you can then run it all in a decentralized manner and now you you've like really eliminated your infrastructure costs in that regard. Yeah. because uh uh with if still if you're running servers, if you're running a Kubernetes cluster, you you have some costs there if you are running your applications or not. So, so, so there is a base cost. Uh uh with the blockchain, your smart contract, your back end is only running when there is an actual transaction and you pay for the gas gas cost right there and then. uh but you still you kind of with with the blockchain you have several things out of the box that you would need to implement yourself. So, so you have the uh the transaction security, the access control, uh you have the signing of the transaction. So, you have the authoriz and the identification of the who's who's calling it, you have the full audit log, you have and not to mention like you you don't think about backup and restore and things, right? Yeah. And I don't think uh people actually see that today uh from the when you look at uh the the developers themselves and also the decision makers today they kind of still cling to these legacy technologies uh well over here you know people are trusting uh uh stone age technologies more than even sure like technologies that has been around for 10 here. So, that's what I was going to ask. I mean, as someone who is working both in like an enterprise environment as well as kind of an independent environment, I how do you how do you get that message across? Because like what you're saying right now is yeah, all of these legacy ideas of I need to have all this different infrastructure and I need to host all these different components and and modules just to build and deploy my software. I can simplify into basically running onchain but then like onchain has this stigma right as well of like you know of what it is you know oh it's DeFi or it's gambling or whatever. Yeah. So how how do you how do you take that and say no no no like this is actually what's possible as a as a builder as a product decision maker. H well first of all uh I just demonstrate what's possible. I talk about what's possible and then comes all the stigma not much to do about that. But at some point and this is what I see every time every now and then the the old legacy technology stops working. It becomes insecure. Uh it it it's hacked. This happens throughout the throughout the history. It's always kind of but but it's like you know people have to learn the hard way unfortunately. Yeah. So so the these technologies are not replaced um unless something really goes wrong. Uh as long as they people are uh comfortable with it. uh we we we do have in in in the part of the world where where I live in we have kind of uh high trust in the banking system in the government services and and everything and it's all digitized but you know uh lots of legacy platforms uh sure sure I shouldn't uh but well yeah so uh and and there are kind of we we live in a different world now than than 20 years ago. And and this this software were made for a different time with a whole set of uh we didn't think about you know the demands of today when it comes to security, scalability, energy consumption. Uh so but yeah as long as we are uh rich and happy and uh uh kind of uh not under uh very much pressure we we become lazy and and we we just use what we had but this is changing now. This is for sure the landscape is is changing. I can see that now that uh there is uh for sure also even here uh uh people are seeing that uh there's uh we need to upgrade the technology stack uh and then of course it's hard the the next challenge is then to say that for example uh blockchain has uh has a prop solution proposal there. I is that is that something that you see and and again just from like maybe your own experience here is it proving like the cost difference part of that too? I mean like if it sounds like from what you're saying you know my cost overall if I deploy on chain versus legacy could be a difference of 100x realistically. Absolutely. uh just seeing that from my own experiments, just seeing that on my uh what I participate with on on the DevHub platform team which also is a great uh team to be a part of and contributing to that. Uh uh I really love that uh just to see what we are capable of delivering when it comes to back-end technology front end uh and the number of users we can handle. Sure. And the number and the amount of uh hosting cost involved is tiny fraction and and even my all these apps that I've put up on here uh they don't you know they they it doesn't cost me uh now now you you can very easily charge the user every time there's a transaction. So so you so you don't have that risk either that financial risk. So, so uh I I think things like web 4 uh enabling uh the capability of setting up a full website uh and with a near blockchain as back end. Uh that's well zero upfront or zero kind of running cost. Uh right. But but you of course you we this has to be uh kind of when when uh kind of uh adapted to the end to end to the end users out there uh for and it it has to be adapted some way but still it's it's like yeah a huge uh efficiency um cap possibility there. Yeah. No, makes that that that makes sense. So, le let's I want to pivot a little bit here and talk about uh the book you wrote and it was released back in January. Uh so is that I guess maybe like what what's the book actually getting into and is that something that helps this cause of what we're talking about here of encouraging people to better understand like the power of WASM and then leveraging it for their own product. Absolutely. So if you go into the last two chapters which is about web assembly on air and uh and the last one about web assembly on kubernetes they are just about what we talk about now. So, so kind of uh this uh green technology, this uh uh yeah, there you have the book. Uh so, so it's about uh uh kind of the the security uh that you get with uh with blockchain uh and also this uh um efficiency when hosting on Kubernetes, these containers that you can start instantly and you can shut them down when they are not in use. So uh and the whole book if you go from the very beginning it kind of starts on that uh uh yeah it's like it's like a journey back to also where I started as a programmer with assembly language. So, so I have quite a bit of uh uh web assembly low level uh this uh web assembly text format uh code listings. Uh so you can uh kind of understand that this is um this is resembling uh how we in the past we wrote this kind of code directly on the CPU. But the beauty with web assembly is that it translate to to to whatever CPU that you're running on on your mobile device or your uh laptop or or whatever. But um uh still having this kind of lowlevel language where you can uh uh yeah you you you can write your own mathematical function for for creating a sign curve or random function or or you on on that very low level. Right. So uh and then you have chapters about uh assembly script. You have a chapter about uh this JavaScript runtime uh inside web assembly. So uh explaining that there's a chapter on wasome git actually which I haven't uh uh that's also a project which is part of this uh uh whole uh concept because that's uh about uh storing the files you are working with uh locally in your browser but also being able to synchronize with the server. So but this is really kind of important. It's uh for storing the code files uh but also just for storing data. Uh so I have this uh application for uh calculating your accounting and taxes and that's using was git just to store all your blockchain data transactions. So so so you can use it for building your reports and stuff. So interesting. M so for for this in so we've talked a little bit about like so like web assembly versus some previous technologies like flash and you know silver light so what are like what are are there I mean I don't even know if there are any are there current alternatives to this I mean you know flash is pretty much gone right I mean yeah I don't think silver light exists anymore at all either um so is there an alternative to something like web assembly Is it just like a standard like web app at that point? I mean I don't know about any alternative uh now nowadays to to web assembly. Web assembly can even run these old plug-in technologies. You can you can turn your java plats into web assembly modules. You can turn your silver light flash. So it all runs on web assembly. So, so the only alternative is to not use web assembly and just but then you have the you don't have the same performance possibilities. For example, if you're going to write uh some mathematical functions if you're if you're going to use for example and this is demonstrated in the book as well. If you're just uh using the math functions of JavaScript uh compared to writing your own in in uh web assembly uh there's a huge difference in in performance. Sure. So yeah, I think so for people who don't know and so and I guess we we kind of skipped over this a little bit here. So to get to web assembly there's a couple different there's m multiple different paths you can get there because web assembly is compiled code so you can write it in rust which is like in your smart contract you can write it in other languages as well right as long as there's a compiler for it then yeah absolutely so and and there are more and more compilers supporting it web assembly the low level language is also kind of getting support for uh these uh languages that were uh well it's getting support for this thing called a garbage collection cleaning up the memory uh and uh not uh yeah so so this is needed kind of to to actually make it possible to to compile C and and uh Java directly to to web assembly as well. uh and but still you know uh garbage collection is not something that is done with rust. It also is kind of probably not a good thing when it comes to uh performance critical real-time apps but it's a very convenient thing as uh uh when you're developing uh so so but okay we that part can be discussed and I'm sure there are a lot of opinions and and this is where you can talk about uh uh but but originally web assembly was made for these uh lowlevel languages where you kind of do as you would do on a normal CPU. You manage your memory, you manage uh uh you manage your code to the very detailed level and have full control over the performance and Sure. Yeah. So for you and and as you're continuing to do this, so I know like you know again you have your full-time job, you do some work for near DevHub here and there. Um you I know you're still experimenting trying to do your own side projects. I like is it continuing and you wrote a book in the meantime which is no small feat. So like I mean for you the is the path just to continue you know I know like expanding this into more of a product some of the stuff but is it is it just to keep experimenting and trying all these different things um is that part of the joy of what you're doing is that you are kind of have your hands in multiple things. Yeah it's hard for me to only do one thing. Uh I will probably always do lots of different things but uh uh I think this these passion projects about web assembly music and so on is is something that I I'm actually trying to to free some more time to do and and also uh I think what we're doing in in DevUB is also awesome. Uh I I really believe in this uh uh treasury application that we are building there. uh it's kind of uh well we we are we started off I felt it was like this we are we are starting uh we are contributing to the uh application that is also used for sponsoring our contributions. So uh uh but but still uh I see that this has a purpose beyond just development. Uh I think it's it's about how we can also uh distribute funds uh to projects all kinds of projects not just development but I I really hope kind of any type of project that will improve the world in some way. Uh this is uh uh this is something I I believe we can do because this treasury app it is about um uh it's leveraging the uh the the DAO the decentralized autonomous organization and and the control of the money flow is is super uh essential there to to have the transparency who approved that these money should be transferred to to this individual to this organization uh who who was part of the voting process who are able to vote. Uh these are democratic tools. These are uh transparency uh tools. It's actually making a difference. uh and okay we are just playing with it now using it for our own uh but um uh engineers ecosystem but this really has a a broader purpose and and a mission so so I I really think that that project is is something uh I I really enjoy being uh a part of so uh yes so so back to your question again it's hard to just do one thing Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I mean, I I' I'd absolutely get that. I get that. I want to end here on uh you brought up AI stuff and so that's obviously a large topic in near I think in general in programming. Um a lot of different angles you can come from for yourself and especially around the web assembly piece of that. um you touched on it a little bit but could you go a little bit deeper on like where does like web assembly sit along with interacting with AI and stuff like that? Uh yeah, I think uh it's uh there are a lot of use cases here. We we have the uh and probably near AI has has done something excellent there because of the combination with the smart contracts uh with uh how blockchain and AI interacts. uh uh but AI agents they are still uh uh part of an AI agent is to to execute some code and uh and we need to be able to write those pieces of code in in any kind of language uh we need to these tools that we offer to the language model today uh for for executing uh for uh various functionality on on our behalf. the web assembly is an excellent kind of binary format, a secure sandbox for for those uh for those functions. So so I I absolutely believe that uh it it the the runtime of an AI agent function should a web assembly is an excellent candidate for that. So nice. Yeah, makes sense. Well, uh, Peter, thank you so much for coming on talking all about this. Uh, there's so much great stuff here. I really hope people take some time and go look through all your past experiments and different things you've tried cuz there is really some great nuggets of I think initial potent you know potential products or ideas or just again like showcasing the technology in a very different way which I really appreciate. Um, I've put your your your Twitter handle on on the screen, but what's the best way for people to kind of follow along and keep up with what you're doing? Uh, I think uh Twitter is is uh is a place follow me on GitHub as well and and LinkedIn. I do post there. Uh, the Web Assembly Music stuff is on uh YouTube and on my web page. Uh, I I do post some uh videos. Uh and they are of course not just about one thing. If you're only there for music, you will also be disturbed by some other things as well. Yeah. Yeah. But but everything is is there. So so and uh uh so yeah nice uh and then obviously get your book as well. Uh definitely go check that out. Uh you can it's available online. You can get it if you you even use Kindle, things like that. Um, you can definitely check that out. And I I really uh want to emphasize to people, I think this is stuff that's good to look into if you are a builder and you want to see a different approach to architecture and different ways of deploying a product. Uh, this is the kind of stuff that I think is is worth kind of jumping into. So, uh, again, Peter, thank you so much for taking the time coming on here and kind of walking us through. Yeah. Thanks for and we look forward to seeing what what other projects you come out with. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. There there is a lot to I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Uh yeah, folks, I I think again uh definitely again here I'll pull it back up one more time here. Uh check out his book. Uh it's really it's one of those things where as someone who builds products and myself that I'm very interested in architecture and uh trying to understand different ways of deploying products uh you know learning about web assembly and how you can make that as part of your infrastructure how that can be kind of become that it's just a good learning lesson even if you don't ever use it I think it's just a good to see what are some of different alternatives and as Peter talked about during this discussion of the issues with some of the current and legacy type of architecture setups for software and where you can get hung up and what kind of problems are then solved by something like web assembly uh it's definitely really interesting uh if you are interested in building on blockchain again at near the contracts do compile into wom so there is all that stuff that's why again like this type of stuff around, you know, experimentation is so important because like we're really at that early days of maybe what's possible there and starting to push those limits. And so as you start to see those things and again as some other guests that I've had on here uh as well like Elliot and such who are really big into experimenting, trying different things, experimentation can lead to products and can lead to different ideas. So, I really really encourage people to kind of check that stuff out. Um, before we go, uh, we'll be back live again same time next week. As always, uh, if you have not already signed up to our newsletter, uh, down at the bottom, uh, we are sending out a newsletter each and every week about kind of near development, uh, near AI stuff that's happening, just kind of some development topics in general. Uh, I I really encourage you to kind of keep up with that. There is a lot happening especially here in the near ecosystem that I think is worth keeping up with uh if you're interested. So check out our newsletter. Any kind of support you might need jump into any of our different telegram groups. We here at DevHub are here to help with all that type of building and stuff like that. And if you have topic ideas, if you have things that you want to see, if you have guests that you'd like to have come on here and kind of deep dive into some of our stuff, please uh reach out to me. Uh my handle is on the screen. and you're more than welcome to reach out and I'm happy to uh discuss having on different projects as well too. Uh so until next week uh this has been another awesome episode. I hope everybody learned something and we will see you again same time next week. Bye now.","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T04:57:54.390Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":18,"text":"Tell me what you want. Tell me what you want. What you want? What you want?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=18s"},{"start_seconds":29,"text":"What you want? You want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=29s"},{"start_seconds":47,"text":"you Hello. Hello. This is a weird view. I don't like this. Let's change it back.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=47s"},{"start_seconds":53,"text":"Why aren't we shifting here? My settings are all messed up. That's okay. We are live and I'm going to fix this as we go.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=53s"},{"start_seconds":59,"text":"That's the fun of being live. Uh, thank you everyone for joining us another DevHub live. Uh, super excited about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=59s"},{"start_seconds":66,"text":"this episode. So, one of the things that I really like to highlight here, there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=66s"},{"start_seconds":73,"text":"we go. Is having developers on who are actually building and we talk a lot about different products that come in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=73s"},{"start_seconds":80,"text":"here and people show their different things. And uh my guest today, Peter, if you have not seen him in the ecosystem,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=80s"},{"start_seconds":88,"text":"if you've been around near, you've probably seen his name in the ecosystem, but been doing a lot of different work for years now. Um both experimenting and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=88s"},{"start_seconds":96,"text":"trying different things, actually building some stuff here and there. And this is the type of stuff that I think anyone who is building period, this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=96s"},{"start_seconds":104,"text":"not a web 3, it's not a crypto thing. If you are a developer and you have different interests and you are looking to how do I actually put this into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=104s"},{"start_seconds":112,"text":"action, how do I actually start to explore different technology, things like that, Peter's your guy. Um, so, uh,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=112s"},{"start_seconds":120,"text":"I would highly encourage everyone to just take a minute and look more into some of the stuff that Peter talks about. Uh, it's really pretty cool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=120s"},{"start_seconds":128,"text":"things like that. He also has a book he just released which we're going to talk all about as well. And so, there's just a lot of great stuff here. So I am super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=128s"},{"start_seconds":136,"text":"excited. So I do not want to wait much longer. So let's bring Peter up to the stage. And Peter, how are you? Hello","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=136s"},{"start_seconds":143,"text":"Joe. Great to be here. Thank you. So yeah, thank thanks for coming on. So let's start at the very kind of high level for yourself. Who is Peter?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=143s"},{"start_seconds":155,"text":"Who are you?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=155s"},{"start_seconds":157,"text":"Well, yeah, like you introduced uh I'm a developer. I loved uh different uh technologies. Uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=157s"},{"start_seconds":167,"text":"it's been a passion for as long as I can remember. Uh started on the Commodore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=167s"},{"start_seconds":174,"text":"64, Commodore Amigga. Uh was part of the demo scene. We built a lot of graphical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=174s"},{"start_seconds":180,"text":"and music demos and and uh tried to tweak the maximum out of this uh computers. That's still going on. Uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=180s"},{"start_seconds":188,"text":"there's still an active demo scene competing about still the same things on these legacy machines which is really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=188s"},{"start_seconds":195,"text":"exciting. Uh and uh for me um yeah so so this is also kind of a part of my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=195s"},{"start_seconds":203,"text":"professional career as well. Uh been into lots of different industries. Uh finance industries is one of them. Uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=203s"},{"start_seconds":210,"text":"where I work now in a company called banksoft which is about banking software. But I always kind of uh have to explore a bit more on my own as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=210s"},{"start_seconds":224,"text":"And um uh one one of the technologies I I kind of started with uh when when it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=224s"},{"start_seconds":232,"text":"was fresh actually that's that must be more than 10 years ago now when when we saw the kind of first uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=232s"},{"start_seconds":239,"text":"uh traces of web assembly or or the kind of the beginning of web assembly trying to to get something powerful uh from the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=239s"},{"start_seconds":247,"text":"web uh which I always always thought that the web is kind of the platform unifi ing um all the all the devices,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=247s"},{"start_seconds":258,"text":"all the platforms, all the architectures, the operating systems. Uh we can all use the web uh there and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=258s"},{"start_seconds":266,"text":"uh uh and I also think you know in the '9s there there was this Java technology trying to also uh fulfill that same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=266s"},{"start_seconds":275,"text":"mission. It didn't kind of go exactly there though Java is still strong but not for that purpose. Mhm. Uh but uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=275s"},{"start_seconds":283,"text":"the web has kind of established uh that uh part and um and with the web assembly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=283s"},{"start_seconds":291,"text":"technology it actually made it possible to to also get those uh power in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=291s"},{"start_seconds":297,"text":"demanding apps um uh kind of uh uh also to the browser. So games uh and uh and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=297s"},{"start_seconds":306,"text":"for me it was about the music which was also my passion in in since the very beginning when I started with computers.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=306s"},{"start_seconds":314,"text":"Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=314s"},{"start_seconds":315,"text":"with his trackers on the amigga. Uh and now with web assembly, it's about uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=315s"},{"start_seconds":321,"text":"kind of uh I also did a music sequencer digital audio workstation in Java uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=321s"},{"start_seconds":328,"text":"with the purpose of the crossplatform but with web assembly. Uh it's kind of it's so close or I I actually don't use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=328s"},{"start_seconds":337,"text":"this desktop dows anymore. I I use the uh I I use the web assembly app uh where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=337s"},{"start_seconds":345,"text":"where you can create the music in the browser. You have the low latency when you press the keys on the keyboard. Uh you can you can kind of uh get the same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=345s"},{"start_seconds":354,"text":"quality of the sounds. Uh and just as powerful when it comes to synthesizing and all that stuff. And um and then you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=354s"},{"start_seconds":362,"text":"know uh blockchain is kind of the when when you have the web to create your music but also to publish your music.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=362s"},{"start_seconds":373,"text":"You need kind of a powerful platform to uh to publish and and this is where uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=373s"},{"start_seconds":380,"text":"found near because Yeah. Nice. So so now I I already went far into Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=380s"},{"start_seconds":387,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Lot so much to get through. Where you? Yeah. So, I want to I want to go back a little bit here and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=387s"},{"start_seconds":397,"text":"the the music and and development piece is really interesting and the part that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=397s"},{"start_seconds":404,"text":"I am really curious about is can you talk a little bit about how you have these two passions. You're interested in programming, you're interested in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=404s"},{"start_seconds":413,"text":"building software, and then you have music. what made you want to start to kind of combine those two things together?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=413s"},{"start_seconds":422,"text":"Yeah, I think you know uh this was also from the very beginning. Uh I wanted to I was interested in programming. I was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=422s"},{"start_seconds":431,"text":"interested in music. Um I I think you know being able to combine those two.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=431s"},{"start_seconds":436,"text":"One thing is to to create sounds which you if you're going to create a synthesizer and you need to to code uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=436s"},{"start_seconds":443,"text":"or you you need to tweak those uh kind of um all the parameters of a sound and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=443s"},{"start_seconds":450,"text":"and essentially that's code. So uh if you want to have full control which I want. So so um and when it comes to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=450s"},{"start_seconds":458,"text":"music uh also kind of sequencing uh like you see in in uh if you're a plan piano player you are following this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=458s"},{"start_seconds":467,"text":"sheets note sheets and and you can also express that kind of same notation in in code. So for example in my case in in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=467s"},{"start_seconds":476,"text":"JavaScript it's an excellent language for expressing this music. So you you can have a command for each note for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=476s"},{"start_seconds":484,"text":"C D E you you can create uh some structures for having the intervals","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=484s"},{"start_seconds":491,"text":"between the notes and so so that was the thing that is what the web assembly music project is about. It's like um you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=491s"},{"start_seconds":500,"text":"can write uh can express this music in code and now I know you know AI is good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=500s"},{"start_seconds":508,"text":"at writing code. So, so that's the next step I you know. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=508s"},{"start_seconds":515,"text":"term vibe coding can actually have also meaning combine it with actual vibes.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=515s"},{"start_seconds":521,"text":"Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I think it's interesting to see your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=521s"},{"start_seconds":528,"text":"progression in just understanding kind of like how you pull these pieces together. I like that you talked about here just now of like trying to figure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=528s"},{"start_seconds":537,"text":"out like what is the right language for things and working through that different process of like okay here's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=537s"},{"start_seconds":544,"text":"how I got to assembly script here's how you know I think that JavaScript is serving the my needs best for different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=544s"},{"start_seconds":551,"text":"things so that for you as a developer and I because I think this is really relevant to a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=551s"},{"start_seconds":558,"text":"of people is like what goes into that decision decision making. Was it simply","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=558s"},{"start_seconds":565,"text":"just the flexibility of it or was it more or less like how much you could still contribute back to it?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=565s"},{"start_seconds":574,"text":"Well, uh when it comes to choosing the language for for creating music, it was about uh efficiency and being able to do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=574s"},{"start_seconds":583,"text":"coding live on stage even. And and that was the whole idea. If you see some of the videos that I have, you can see that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=583s"},{"start_seconds":590,"text":"I'm programming while the music is playing and and there's so little code that you have to alter. So, so that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=590s"},{"start_seconds":597,"text":"can kind of like a DJ. You can you can uh you can change the uh you can change","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=597s"},{"start_seconds":605,"text":"the beat, you can change the melodies while you are coding. You can also with this assembly script also that was kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=605s"},{"start_seconds":612,"text":"of the purpose to be able to to tweak the sound while it is playing and uh right assembly script is such a fast","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=612s"},{"start_seconds":620,"text":"compiler and it runs entirely in the browser so there's no server involved.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=620s"},{"start_seconds":625,"text":"So so then uh that means that you can you can actually get a live uh music","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=625s"},{"start_seconds":632,"text":"playing and experience on stage and the instrument is the code. Yeah. Yeah. Is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=632s"},{"start_seconds":640,"text":"and and is that kind of so I know like your full-time professional job is obviously as working as programmer but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=640s"},{"start_seconds":647,"text":"like is this experimentation part and the part with even maybe before the music stuff is that what kind of led you down that path of being able to create?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=647s"},{"start_seconds":658,"text":"Is it or was it something like all right I'm already in this how do I start to expand this to my other hobbies like because music was its own hobby things like that?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=658s"},{"start_seconds":669,"text":"Yeah. Well, uh I'm not sure if I understand the question fully, but uh it's you mean like uh how uh if the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=669s"},{"start_seconds":678,"text":"music was something I already had uh um Yeah. Yeah. just kind of for people who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=678s"},{"start_seconds":688,"text":"you know so it's like the thing of where I think is always interesting for developers is like if you work in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=688s"},{"start_seconds":696,"text":"construction oftent times like your hobby isn't doing more construction but developers seem to have these side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=696s"},{"start_seconds":704,"text":"things that are constantly tied into programming but you've done something really interesting that you've actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=704s"},{"start_seconds":711,"text":"tied it into music. So like which is also its own thing. And so like how did that all fit together?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=711s"},{"start_seconds":719,"text":"Yeah. So so you know for me kind of sitting with a piano just playing some stuff is is some it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=719s"},{"start_seconds":728,"text":"a re relaxation thing. It's an energizing thing. It gives me inspiration and and when I can do that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=728s"},{"start_seconds":738,"text":"in combination also with programming uh it's even more uh inspiring because um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=738s"},{"start_seconds":744,"text":"right and then I can also u kind of um I I can take it even farther because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=744s"},{"start_seconds":752,"text":"uh further because the the what I can do right there and then on the piano is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=752s"},{"start_seconds":758,"text":"kind of uh right there and then Uh it's also a magic thing because you you play","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=758s"},{"start_seconds":765,"text":"something and but you will never hear it again. You you improvise something that will be right there and then. But uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=765s"},{"start_seconds":772,"text":"uh but when you also combine it with programming, you can yeah uh actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=772s"},{"start_seconds":779,"text":"one of the two the interesting thing is that you can record from your uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=779s"},{"start_seconds":786,"text":"keyboard and have that uh recording translated code.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=786s"},{"start_seconds":792,"text":"Interesting. Interesting. So but but yeah I think this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=792s"},{"start_seconds":799,"text":"um this is just about uh passion to to explore to to uh to actually it's a it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=799s"},{"start_seconds":807,"text":"a way of creating things creativity really uh I don't know if it deserve it if it's if it can be called art but it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=807s"},{"start_seconds":816,"text":"it's it's more like yeah definitely art it's just something I do to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=816s"},{"start_seconds":824,"text":"to yeah for for the joy of it uh and mostly for myself and and if I actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=824s"},{"start_seconds":832,"text":"see that others enjoy too and that was obviously the case when when I was invited to this first web assembly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=832s"},{"start_seconds":839,"text":"summit uh in in 2020 uh which was a great experience where I was uh where I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=839s"},{"start_seconds":848,"text":"was uh together with all these web assembly uh gurus I would say all these founders of of Web Assembly were there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=848s"},{"start_seconds":856,"text":"and then it was me, this unknown guy from Norway doing some music stuff that was with with the hat. I should have had","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=856s"},{"start_seconds":864,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I think it is is very interesting and the experimentation part is really curious","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=864s"},{"start_seconds":871,"text":"to me because definitely I mean I think you know you're definitely making art here and the creativity part I get all of that but then like it seems like you've then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=871s"},{"start_seconds":880,"text":"taken this exploring and creativity and tried to also apply it to some stuff here on Near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=880s"},{"start_seconds":889,"text":"with blockchain of showing like it's almost like proof of capability, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=889s"},{"start_seconds":894,"text":"Like you've a lot of the experiments you've done that I've seen over the years are about showing like look at how powerful this actually is and you can do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=894s"},{"start_seconds":903,"text":"this now. So with that said, maybe let's go into like what then led you to start building on near and kind of coming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=903s"},{"start_seconds":911,"text":"here. Yeah. So because near was um uh uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=911s"},{"start_seconds":918,"text":"the first thing uh was the uh because of the size of these web assembly music uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=918s"},{"start_seconds":924,"text":"files. They are uh less than 30 kilobytes. So and they contain all the audio, all the music, everything is one.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=924s"},{"start_seconds":934,"text":"So, so you know that's that's less than a paper you write at school. Uh less characters.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=934s"},{"start_seconds":942,"text":"Uh but imagine that. Uh and you have a full piece of music. You have instruments sounding almost like real","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=942s"},{"start_seconds":949,"text":"instruments. And uh my idea was that I don't have to publish this on uh streaming services. I don't have to uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=949s"},{"start_seconds":958,"text":"uh create a W file. I don't have to create an MP3 file. I can actually publish this web assembly file as is and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=958s"},{"start_seconds":965,"text":"and at that time also the NFTts were very popular. I I still think it's a an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=965s"},{"start_seconds":972,"text":"amazing concept and I think actually this uh this is I have not given up on NFTs. I I actually want to do more with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=972s"},{"start_seconds":981,"text":"NFTs. Um and uh and this is uh where you can actually take this web assembly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=981s"},{"start_seconds":988,"text":"file. You can put it on chain. So it's not like a file on the side that the NFT is linked to. It's there. The content is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=988s"},{"start_seconds":997,"text":"stored on the blockchain. And and when I found that near uh had um web assembly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=997s"},{"start_seconds":1004,"text":"smart contracts because that was what I was looking for when it uh when it comes to to a blockchain. I thought someone must have done this. So I started","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1004s"},{"start_seconds":1013,"text":"looking for that in 2019. Uh yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1013s"},{"start_seconds":1018,"text":"or was it even 2018? I don't know. But um uh there's a question on stack","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1018s"},{"start_seconds":1026,"text":"overflow back then from when I started from me when I started to explore it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1026s"},{"start_seconds":1031,"text":"Yeah. Um uh and then I found out okay we we can store this on it's possible to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1031s"},{"start_seconds":1038,"text":"store uh on air on chain. Uh I can also make the smart contract in web assembly.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1038s"},{"start_seconds":1045,"text":"Uh which is great because that enables to to do more than the typical blockchain just transaction stuff. You","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1045s"},{"start_seconds":1053,"text":"can actually for for me this is is like the cloud uh platform alternatives, right? Because you can do web hosting.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1053s"},{"start_seconds":1062,"text":"you can host. So, so yeah, I can put up the entire backend logic for this web page that is going to host the music.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1062s"},{"start_seconds":1070,"text":"Yeah. Uh eventually also we got this web 4 from Vlad Gisha which allows us also to put the front end there and so we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1070s"},{"start_seconds":1079,"text":"have everything there. But um uh uh but yeah, so so that was my first attempt in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1079s"},{"start_seconds":1085,"text":"in early 2021 uh where I published a piece of music on chain uh several","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1085s"},{"start_seconds":1092,"text":"pieces of music. I also created some interactive demos where you can create music yourself. You can remix music. You","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1092s"},{"start_seconds":1101,"text":"can and it was also connected to NFTTS still up there. uh and and various","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1101s"},{"start_seconds":1109,"text":"experiments as you said here in the beginning. So and and it also kind of brings me back to the early days to this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1109s"},{"start_seconds":1118,"text":"Commodore days also because we were playing with assembly language back right they are still doing that. uh uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1118s"},{"start_seconds":1127,"text":"I think you know we should move on to the web because then we have an audience that is but but this web assembly kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1127s"},{"start_seconds":1134,"text":"of revives that concept on the web um Mhm.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1134s"},{"start_seconds":1139,"text":"which I think is maybe it's a bit nerdy but uh no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1139s"},{"start_seconds":1147,"text":"but what but what I think is really interesting though is you're still proving the abilities of the technology","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1147s"},{"start_seconds":1155,"text":"right so even if like conceptually like okay this is a very niche thing right now for like what I'm trying to do it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1155s"},{"start_seconds":1163,"text":"it is showing some capabilities because like you said you are so constrained trained by some of the you know uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1163s"},{"start_seconds":1171,"text":"abilities of the of both the size and the blockchain speed and everything else that yet you're still able to do these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1171s"},{"start_seconds":1178,"text":"interesting experiments. I do just think it was it's something that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1178s"},{"start_seconds":1184,"text":"uh we don't see a lot of right now. It's a lot of it right is just trying to push","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1184s"},{"start_seconds":1192,"text":"out more of the same for the most part where I do feel like this you have continued to do that. So for you as you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1192s"},{"start_seconds":1201,"text":"complete these experiments is that something where it's like okay I did it. I've, you know, I've proven the case.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1201s"},{"start_seconds":1210,"text":"Maybe you might use it something in something personal, but then it's now let's see what else I can do. Or is there a desire to do something more with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1210s"},{"start_seconds":1218,"text":"some of these experiments? I absolutely uh I think you know uh though I still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1218s"},{"start_seconds":1225,"text":"has been experiments, there's been a proof concept. uh I've been lucky to sell a few NFTts with these things and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1225s"},{"start_seconds":1233,"text":"and also got uh support for my projects and so on, but uh uh still I actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1233s"},{"start_seconds":1240,"text":"want to to do something real with this uh and uh and and then the blockchain is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1240s"},{"start_seconds":1247,"text":"essential and there is um I think uh we we will see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1247s"},{"start_seconds":1254,"text":"uh some more writing about that soon But like the uh this web assembly music they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1254s"},{"start_seconds":1261,"text":"uh plugins so to say they kind of do they can do the same as as the these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1261s"},{"start_seconds":1269,"text":"instruments that producers use now in platforms like Cubase and Logic uh and so on and this it's actually a chapter","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1269s"},{"start_seconds":1277,"text":"in my book of this uh on this as well uh where where you can create a um an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1277s"},{"start_seconds":1284,"text":"instrument plugin an audio effect plugin um uh using this web assembly. Uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1284s"},{"start_seconds":1293,"text":"then you actually need as a music producer, you want to have the unique sound. You want to know that the sound","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1293s"},{"start_seconds":1300,"text":"is yours. You you want to know that other producers don't immediately can just replicate or buy the same sound as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1300s"},{"start_seconds":1308,"text":"you have. and to have that uniqueness to prove that ownership there is NFTTS and there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1308s"},{"start_seconds":1316,"text":"blockchain and so when you can also store the instrument on blockchain then that that's a really I think not just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1316s"},{"start_seconds":1324,"text":"kind of nice concept it's actually a real use case uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1324s"},{"start_seconds":1331,"text":"and uh and then we need NFTTS uh we we even need the funible tokens to to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1331s"},{"start_seconds":1337,"text":"able to to pay for this Maybe we want to to do streaming services uh things like that. Uh uh one of my experience","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1337s"},{"start_seconds":1346,"text":"experiments is also kind of uh paying for using AI uh uh using funible tokens.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1346s"},{"start_seconds":1354,"text":"Now I know that also near AI is kind of free but still I I I expect that this kind of requires quite heavy machinery.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1354s"},{"start_seconds":1363,"text":"So, so sure. So, so AI services has to be uh compensated somehow. So, so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1363s"},{"start_seconds":1370,"text":"think um all of this uh it uh it needs the mechanisms of the blockchain to to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1370s"},{"start_seconds":1377,"text":"provide uh user ownership to provide ownership to um to the asset which is in in this case is the sound but also uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1377s"},{"start_seconds":1386,"text":"and also a mechanisms for for the transactions and uh and so that's where also my experiments go beyond just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1386s"},{"start_seconds":1394,"text":"music. It actually also I actually drag it into all my other work as well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1394s"},{"start_seconds":1400,"text":"because I uh I um I even bring it into this uh uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1400s"},{"start_seconds":1408,"text":"banking. I I had a presentation a few weeks ago showing uh uh how to use AI to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1408s"},{"start_seconds":1415,"text":"to do transactions with uh uh with a banking application. So uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1415s"},{"start_seconds":1421,"text":"um the it all these things that I learned from the web assembly music project. Yeah. And back then has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1421s"},{"start_seconds":1430,"text":"actually also kind of uh in the driver for everything I do elsewhere. And also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1430s"},{"start_seconds":1436,"text":"this you know this project of uh this JavaScript engine running inside uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1436s"},{"start_seconds":1442,"text":"smart contract inside Rust and that was also that is also an a very important","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1442s"},{"start_seconds":1449,"text":"piece in in this uh thing that I have in my mind this so so I really uh yeah to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1449s"},{"start_seconds":1456,"text":"to answer your question yes I I do really want to do something more and this is not just a oneoff thing where I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1456s"},{"start_seconds":1464,"text":"want to say I've done is and then it's it's interesting I you know and web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1464s"},{"start_seconds":1470,"text":"assembly still I feel like is not super well understood right so there are multiple blockchains that are kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1470s"},{"start_seconds":1478,"text":"using it um it is pretty powerful I think there's a lot of websites that people don't realize are using it um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1478s"},{"start_seconds":1486,"text":"there I know like Apple pushed it really heavily for a while a lot of stuff that they were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1486s"},{"start_seconds":1493,"text":"doing what is is it about I guess the technology of web assembly and we talked a little bit about it so far but like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1493s"},{"start_seconds":1500,"text":"just as we look towards the future here how is this how do you see this becoming the main standard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1500s"},{"start_seconds":1508,"text":"for where software is is running yeah I think uh now we have web assembly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1508s"},{"start_seconds":1516,"text":"is kind of uh empowering the web with uh uh the capability of running this uh performance","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1516s"},{"start_seconds":1525,"text":"critical software uh and also this real time uh capabilities. So, so everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1525s"},{"start_seconds":1532,"text":"that you see in desktop applications today. So being able to uh if there are graphical intensive","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1532s"},{"start_seconds":1539,"text":"applications, games, um music apps, uh so so that part is I think web assembly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1539s"},{"start_seconds":1547,"text":"there are no need no need for these plugins that we have had in the past like flash or or java applets or silver light all of those are gone. But web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1547s"},{"start_seconds":1555,"text":"assembly uh is is uh is filling that gap and and doing it more better than any of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1555s"},{"start_seconds":1564,"text":"these. And and then it comes to the server side where web assembly is kind of um less explored. I think uh web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1564s"},{"start_seconds":1573,"text":"assembly on smart contracts on near is is a great thing. It actually it it is the same concept as uh if you use web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1573s"},{"start_seconds":1583,"text":"assembly on edge computing or or in cloud computing. Uh what the the thing with near uh is that um it's actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1583s"},{"start_seconds":1592,"text":"combined with a transaction. So everything when the data is altered by this web assembly code um so so think as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1592s"},{"start_seconds":1601,"text":"think of the web assembly module as the gatekeeper to your database, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1601s"},{"start_seconds":1607,"text":"And that part is is fully kind of uh handled by by the blockchain near in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1607s"},{"start_seconds":1614,"text":"this case. Uh and then we see now that uh web assembly is coming to to cloud orchestration platforms like kubernetes. So and what does that mean?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1614s"},{"start_seconds":1625,"text":"Uh well and why do we need it? Because we we've had docker containers for for a long time now. Mh. But the problem with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1625s"},{"start_seconds":1634,"text":"a docker container is that it actually costs quite a bit to sure run it. If you have a net application for example, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1634s"},{"start_seconds":1641,"text":"you easily see that it occupies like half a gigabyte of memory. Oh yeah. Even when doing nothing. So so it's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1641s"},{"start_seconds":1650,"text":"environmental problem. We are we are saying blockchain is the environmental problem but that's not the case.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1650s"},{"start_seconds":1657,"text":"Especially if you look at near it's not using it's only using energy when it does something. The problem with a docker container it's that it's kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1657s"},{"start_seconds":1666,"text":"running there idle like a car waiting for the green light. Sure. So so so this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1666s"},{"start_seconds":1673,"text":"is where web assembly also can make a difference when it comes to the container technology because a web assembly container you can switch off","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1673s"},{"start_seconds":1681,"text":"when it's not doing anything. you can uh you can uh because it starts so fast. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1681s"},{"start_seconds":1688,"text":"when the API request comes in when there's an event on the event queue you can start the container right there and then and you can shut it down when the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1688s"},{"start_seconds":1697,"text":"request has been uh uh fulfilled. So so then we are talking about that's green technology that's kind of also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1697s"},{"start_seconds":1706,"text":"costefficient uh technology. So, so we can what we now today need uh 10 servers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1706s"},{"start_seconds":1713,"text":"for we can well I should rather say 100 because we can reduce from 100 to one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1713s"},{"start_seconds":1720,"text":"right is is that why though also like blockchain makes sense because you can then run it all in a decentralized manner and now you you've like really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1720s"},{"start_seconds":1729,"text":"eliminated your infrastructure costs in that regard. Yeah. because uh uh with if still if you're running servers, if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1729s"},{"start_seconds":1738,"text":"you're running a Kubernetes cluster, you you have some costs there if you are running your applications or not. So,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1738s"},{"start_seconds":1745,"text":"so, so there is a base cost. Uh uh with the blockchain, your smart contract, your back end is only running when there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1745s"},{"start_seconds":1754,"text":"is an actual transaction and you pay for the gas gas cost right there and then.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1754s"},{"start_seconds":1759,"text":"uh but you still you kind of with with the blockchain you have several things out of the box that you would need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1759s"},{"start_seconds":1767,"text":"implement yourself. So, so you have the uh the transaction security, the access control,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1767s"},{"start_seconds":1775,"text":"uh you have the signing of the transaction. So, you have the authoriz and the identification of the who's who's calling it, you have the full","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1775s"},{"start_seconds":1784,"text":"audit log, you have and not to mention like you you don't think about backup and restore and things, right? Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1784s"},{"start_seconds":1793,"text":"And I don't think uh people actually see that today uh from the when you look at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1793s"},{"start_seconds":1800,"text":"uh the the developers themselves and also the decision makers today they kind of still cling to these legacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1800s"},{"start_seconds":1808,"text":"technologies uh well over here you know people are trusting uh uh stone age technologies","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1808s"},{"start_seconds":1815,"text":"more than even sure like technologies that has been around for 10 here. So, that's what I was going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1815s"},{"start_seconds":1824,"text":"to ask. I mean, as someone who is working both in like an enterprise environment as well as kind of an independent environment, I how do you how do you get that message across?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1824s"},{"start_seconds":1835,"text":"Because like what you're saying right now is yeah, all of these legacy ideas of I need to have all this different infrastructure and I need to host all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1835s"},{"start_seconds":1844,"text":"these different components and and modules just to build and deploy my software. I can simplify into basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1844s"},{"start_seconds":1851,"text":"running onchain but then like onchain has this stigma right as well of like you know of what it is you know oh it's DeFi or it's gambling or whatever. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1851s"},{"start_seconds":1862,"text":"So how how do you how do you take that and say no no no like this is actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1862s"},{"start_seconds":1869,"text":"what's possible as a as a builder as a product decision maker. H well first of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1869s"},{"start_seconds":1876,"text":"all uh I just demonstrate what's possible. I talk about what's possible and then comes all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1876s"},{"start_seconds":1883,"text":"stigma not much to do about that. But at some point and this is what I see every time every now and then the the old","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1883s"},{"start_seconds":1892,"text":"legacy technology stops working. It becomes insecure. Uh it it it's hacked.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1892s"},{"start_seconds":1900,"text":"This happens throughout the throughout the history. It's always kind of but but it's like you know people have to learn","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1900s"},{"start_seconds":1908,"text":"the hard way unfortunately. Yeah. So so the these technologies are not replaced um unless something really goes wrong.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1908s"},{"start_seconds":1919,"text":"Uh as long as they people are uh comfortable with it. uh we we we do have in in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1919s"},{"start_seconds":1927,"text":"in the part of the world where where I live in we have kind of uh high trust in the banking system in the government","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1927s"},{"start_seconds":1935,"text":"services and and everything and it's all digitized but you know uh lots of legacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1935s"},{"start_seconds":1941,"text":"platforms uh sure sure I shouldn't uh but well yeah so uh and and there are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1941s"},{"start_seconds":1950,"text":"kind of we we live in a different world now than than 20 years ago. And and this this software were made for a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1950s"},{"start_seconds":1959,"text":"different time with a whole set of uh we didn't think about you know the demands of today when it comes to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1959s"},{"start_seconds":1968,"text":"security, scalability, energy consumption.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1968s"},{"start_seconds":1972,"text":"Uh so but yeah as long as we are uh rich and happy and uh uh kind of uh not under","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1972s"},{"start_seconds":1983,"text":"uh very much pressure we we become lazy and and we we just use what we had but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1983s"},{"start_seconds":1990,"text":"this is changing now. This is for sure the landscape is is changing. I can see that now that uh there is uh for sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1990s"},{"start_seconds":1998,"text":"also even here uh uh people are seeing that uh there's uh we need to upgrade","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=1998s"},{"start_seconds":2005,"text":"the technology stack uh and then of course it's hard the the next challenge is then to say that for example uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2005s"},{"start_seconds":2014,"text":"blockchain has uh has a prop solution proposal there. I is that is that something that you see and and again","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2014s"},{"start_seconds":2023,"text":"just from like maybe your own experience here is it proving like the cost difference part of that too? I mean like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2023s"},{"start_seconds":2031,"text":"if it sounds like from what you're saying you know my cost overall if I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2031s"},{"start_seconds":2038,"text":"deploy on chain versus legacy could be a difference of 100x realistically. Absolutely.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2038s"},{"start_seconds":2046,"text":"uh just seeing that from my own experiments, just seeing that on my uh what I participate with on on the DevHub","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2046s"},{"start_seconds":2055,"text":"platform team which also is a great uh team to be a part of and contributing to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2055s"},{"start_seconds":2061,"text":"that. Uh uh I really love that uh just to see what we are capable of delivering when it comes to back-end technology","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2061s"},{"start_seconds":2070,"text":"front end uh and the number of users we can handle. Sure. And the number and the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2070s"},{"start_seconds":2077,"text":"amount of uh hosting cost involved is tiny fraction and and even my all these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2077s"},{"start_seconds":2085,"text":"apps that I've put up on here uh they don't you know they they it doesn't cost me uh now now you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2085s"},{"start_seconds":2093,"text":"you can very easily charge the user every time there's a transaction. So so you so you don't have that risk either","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2093s"},{"start_seconds":2101,"text":"that financial risk. So, so uh I I think things like web 4 uh enabling uh the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2101s"},{"start_seconds":2109,"text":"capability of setting up a full website uh and with a near blockchain as back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2109s"},{"start_seconds":2117,"text":"end. Uh that's well zero upfront or zero kind of running cost. Uh right. But but you of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2117s"},{"start_seconds":2127,"text":"course you we this has to be uh kind of when when uh kind of uh adapted to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2127s"},{"start_seconds":2136,"text":"the end to end to the end users out there uh for and it it has to be adapted","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2136s"},{"start_seconds":2143,"text":"some way but still it's it's like yeah a huge uh efficiency","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2143s"},{"start_seconds":2151,"text":"um cap possibility there. Yeah. No, makes that that that makes sense. So, le","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2151s"},{"start_seconds":2158,"text":"let's I want to pivot a little bit here and talk about uh the book you wrote and it was released back in January.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2158s"},{"start_seconds":2168,"text":"Uh so is that I guess maybe like what what's the book actually getting into and is that something that helps this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2168s"},{"start_seconds":2175,"text":"cause of what we're talking about here of encouraging people to better understand like the power of WASM and then leveraging it for their own product.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2175s"},{"start_seconds":2186,"text":"Absolutely. So if you go into the last two chapters which is about web assembly on air and uh and the last one about web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2186s"},{"start_seconds":2195,"text":"assembly on kubernetes they are just about what we talk about now. So, so kind of uh this uh green technology,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2195s"},{"start_seconds":2203,"text":"this uh uh yeah, there you have the book. Uh so, so it's about uh uh kind of the the security uh that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2203s"},{"start_seconds":2213,"text":"you get with uh with blockchain uh and also this uh um efficiency when hosting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2213s"},{"start_seconds":2221,"text":"on Kubernetes, these containers that you can start instantly and you can shut them down when they are not in use. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2221s"},{"start_seconds":2230,"text":"uh and the whole book if you go from the very beginning it kind of starts on that uh uh yeah it's like it's like a journey","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2230s"},{"start_seconds":2239,"text":"back to also where I started as a programmer with assembly language. So, so I have quite a bit of uh uh web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2239s"},{"start_seconds":2247,"text":"assembly low level uh this uh web assembly text format uh code listings.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2247s"},{"start_seconds":2254,"text":"Uh so you can uh kind of understand that this is um this is resembling","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2254s"},{"start_seconds":2262,"text":"uh how we in the past we wrote this kind of code directly on the CPU. But the beauty with web assembly is that it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2262s"},{"start_seconds":2272,"text":"translate to to to whatever CPU that you're running on on your mobile device","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2272s"},{"start_seconds":2277,"text":"or your uh laptop or or whatever. But um uh still having this kind of lowlevel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2277s"},{"start_seconds":2287,"text":"language where you can uh uh yeah you you you can write your own mathematical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2287s"},{"start_seconds":2294,"text":"function for for creating a sign curve or random function or or you on on that very low level. Right.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2294s"},{"start_seconds":2302,"text":"So uh and then you have chapters about uh assembly script. You have a chapter about uh this JavaScript runtime uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2302s"},{"start_seconds":2311,"text":"inside web assembly. So uh explaining that there's a chapter on wasome git actually which I haven't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2311s"},{"start_seconds":2319,"text":"uh uh that's also a project which is part of this uh uh whole uh concept","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2319s"},{"start_seconds":2327,"text":"because that's uh about uh storing the files you are working with uh locally in your browser but also being able to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2327s"},{"start_seconds":2335,"text":"synchronize with the server. So but this is really kind of important. It's uh for storing the code files uh but also just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2335s"},{"start_seconds":2343,"text":"for storing data. Uh so I have this uh application for uh calculating your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2343s"},{"start_seconds":2350,"text":"accounting and taxes and that's using was git just to store all your blockchain data transactions. So so so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2350s"},{"start_seconds":2358,"text":"you can use it for building your reports and stuff. So interesting. M so for for this in so we've talked a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2358s"},{"start_seconds":2367,"text":"about like so like web assembly versus some previous technologies like flash and you know silver light so what are like what are are there I mean I don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2367s"},{"start_seconds":2376,"text":"even know if there are any are there current alternatives to this I mean you know flash is pretty much gone right I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2376s"},{"start_seconds":2383,"text":"yeah I don't think silver light exists anymore at all either um so is there an alternative to something like web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2383s"},{"start_seconds":2391,"text":"assembly Is it just like a standard like web app at that point? I mean I don't know about any alternative uh now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2391s"},{"start_seconds":2400,"text":"nowadays to to web assembly. Web assembly can even run these old plug-in technologies. You can you can turn your java plats into web assembly modules.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2400s"},{"start_seconds":2408,"text":"You can turn your silver light flash. So it all runs on web assembly. So, so the only alternative is to not use web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2408s"},{"start_seconds":2417,"text":"assembly and just but then you have the you don't have the same performance possibilities. For example, if you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2417s"},{"start_seconds":2425,"text":"going to write uh some mathematical functions if you're if you're going to use for example and this is demonstrated in the book as well. If you're just uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2425s"},{"start_seconds":2434,"text":"using the math functions of JavaScript uh compared to writing your own in in uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2434s"},{"start_seconds":2441,"text":"web assembly uh there's a huge difference in in performance. Sure. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2441s"},{"start_seconds":2448,"text":"yeah, I think so for people who don't know and so and I guess we we kind of skipped over this a little bit here. So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2448s"},{"start_seconds":2457,"text":"to get to web assembly there's a couple different there's m multiple different paths you can get there because web assembly is compiled code","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2457s"},{"start_seconds":2464,"text":"so you can write it in rust which is like in your smart contract you can write it in other languages as well right as long as there's a compiler for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2464s"},{"start_seconds":2472,"text":"it then yeah absolutely so and and there are more and more compilers supporting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2472s"},{"start_seconds":2479,"text":"it web assembly the low level language is also kind of getting support for uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2479s"},{"start_seconds":2485,"text":"these uh languages that were uh well it's getting support for this thing called a garbage collection cleaning up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2485s"},{"start_seconds":2494,"text":"the memory uh and uh not uh yeah so so this is needed kind of to to actually make it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2494s"},{"start_seconds":2502,"text":"possible to to compile C and and uh Java directly to to web assembly as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2502s"},{"start_seconds":2510,"text":"uh and but still you know uh garbage collection is not something that is done","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2510s"},{"start_seconds":2517,"text":"with rust. It also is kind of probably not a good thing when it comes to uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2517s"},{"start_seconds":2524,"text":"performance critical real-time apps but it's a very convenient thing as uh uh when you're developing uh so so but okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2524s"},{"start_seconds":2533,"text":"we that part can be discussed and I'm sure there are a lot of opinions and and this is where you can talk about uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2533s"},{"start_seconds":2542,"text":"uh but but originally web assembly was made for these uh lowlevel languages where you kind of do as you would do on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2542s"},{"start_seconds":2551,"text":"a normal CPU. You manage your memory, you manage uh uh you manage your code to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2551s"},{"start_seconds":2558,"text":"the very detailed level and have full control over the performance and Sure. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2558s"},{"start_seconds":2566,"text":"So for you and and as you're continuing to do this, so I know like you know again you have your full-time job, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2566s"},{"start_seconds":2574,"text":"do some work for near DevHub here and there. Um you I know you're still experimenting trying to do your own side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2574s"},{"start_seconds":2582,"text":"projects. I like is it continuing and you wrote a book in the meantime which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2582s"},{"start_seconds":2588,"text":"is no small feat. So like I mean for you the is the path just to continue you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2588s"},{"start_seconds":2596,"text":"know I know like expanding this into more of a product some of the stuff but is it is it just to keep experimenting and trying all these different things um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2596s"},{"start_seconds":2605,"text":"is that part of the joy of what you're doing is that you are kind of have your hands in multiple things.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2605s"},{"start_seconds":2613,"text":"Yeah it's hard for me to only do one thing. Uh I will probably always do lots of different things but uh uh I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2613s"},{"start_seconds":2622,"text":"this these passion projects about web assembly music and so on is is something that I I'm actually trying to to free","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2622s"},{"start_seconds":2631,"text":"some more time to do and and also uh I think what we're doing in in DevUB is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2631s"},{"start_seconds":2637,"text":"also awesome. Uh I I really believe in this uh uh treasury application that we are building there.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2637s"},{"start_seconds":2645,"text":"uh it's kind of uh well we we are we started off I felt it was like this we are we are starting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2645s"},{"start_seconds":2654,"text":"uh we are contributing to the uh application that is also used for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2654s"},{"start_seconds":2662,"text":"sponsoring our contributions. So uh uh but but still uh I see that this has a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2662s"},{"start_seconds":2670,"text":"purpose beyond just development. Uh I think it's it's about how we can also uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2670s"},{"start_seconds":2679,"text":"distribute funds uh to projects all kinds of projects not just development but I I really hope kind of any type of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2679s"},{"start_seconds":2688,"text":"project that will improve the world in some way. Uh this is uh uh this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2688s"},{"start_seconds":2695,"text":"something I I believe we can do because this treasury app it is about um uh it's leveraging the uh the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2695s"},{"start_seconds":2705,"text":"the DAO the decentralized autonomous organization and and the control of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2705s"},{"start_seconds":2712,"text":"money flow is is super uh essential there to to have the transparency who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2712s"},{"start_seconds":2718,"text":"approved that these money should be transferred to to this individual to this organization","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2718s"},{"start_seconds":2727,"text":"uh who who was part of the voting process who are able to vote. Uh these are democratic tools. These are uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2727s"},{"start_seconds":2735,"text":"transparency uh tools. It's actually making a difference. uh and okay we are just playing with it now using it for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2735s"},{"start_seconds":2744,"text":"our own uh but um uh engineers ecosystem but this really has a a broader purpose","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2744s"},{"start_seconds":2753,"text":"and and a mission so so I I really think that that project is is something uh I I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2753s"},{"start_seconds":2760,"text":"really enjoy being uh a part of so uh yes so so back to your question again it's hard to just do one thing Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2760s"},{"start_seconds":2769,"text":"Yeah. No, no. I mean, I I' I'd absolutely get that. I get that. I want to end here on uh you brought up AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2769s"},{"start_seconds":2778,"text":"stuff and so that's obviously a large topic in near I think in general in programming. Um a lot of different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2778s"},{"start_seconds":2786,"text":"angles you can come from for yourself and especially around the web assembly piece of that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2786s"},{"start_seconds":2792,"text":"um you touched on it a little bit but could you go a little bit deeper on like where does like web assembly sit along with interacting with AI and stuff like that?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2792s"},{"start_seconds":2801,"text":"Uh yeah, I think uh it's uh there are a lot of use cases here. We we have the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2801s"},{"start_seconds":2809,"text":"uh and probably near AI has has done something excellent there because of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2809s"},{"start_seconds":2817,"text":"combination with the smart contracts uh with uh how blockchain and AI interacts.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2817s"},{"start_seconds":2825,"text":"uh uh but AI agents they are still uh uh part of an AI agent is to to execute","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2825s"},{"start_seconds":2833,"text":"some code and uh and we need to be able to write those pieces of code in in any kind of language uh we need to these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2833s"},{"start_seconds":2842,"text":"tools that we offer to the language model today uh for for executing uh for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2842s"},{"start_seconds":2851,"text":"uh various functionality on on our behalf. the web assembly is an excellent kind of binary format, a secure sandbox","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2851s"},{"start_seconds":2860,"text":"for for those uh for those functions. So so I I absolutely believe that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2860s"},{"start_seconds":2869,"text":"uh it it the the runtime of an AI agent function","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2869s"},{"start_seconds":2876,"text":"should a web assembly is an excellent candidate for that. So nice. Yeah, makes sense. Well, uh, Peter, thank you so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2876s"},{"start_seconds":2885,"text":"much for coming on talking all about this. Uh, there's so much great stuff here. I really hope people take some time and go look through all your past","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2885s"},{"start_seconds":2893,"text":"experiments and different things you've tried cuz there is really some great nuggets of I think initial potent you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2893s"},{"start_seconds":2903,"text":"know potential products or ideas or just again like showcasing the technology in a very different way which I really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2903s"},{"start_seconds":2909,"text":"appreciate. Um, I've put your your your Twitter handle on on the screen, but what's the best way for people to kind of follow along and keep up with what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2909s"},{"start_seconds":2918,"text":"you're doing? Uh, I think uh Twitter is is uh is a place follow me on GitHub as well and and LinkedIn. I do post there.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2918s"},{"start_seconds":2928,"text":"Uh, the Web Assembly Music stuff is on uh YouTube and on my web page. Uh, I I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2928s"},{"start_seconds":2935,"text":"do post some uh videos. Uh and they are of course not just about one thing. If you're only there for music, you will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2935s"},{"start_seconds":2943,"text":"also be disturbed by some other things as well. Yeah. Yeah. But but everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2943s"},{"start_seconds":2949,"text":"is is there. So so and uh uh so yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2949s"},{"start_seconds":2955,"text":"nice uh and then obviously get your book as well. Uh definitely go check that out. Uh you can it's available online.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2955s"},{"start_seconds":2963,"text":"You can get it if you you even use Kindle, things like that. Um, you can definitely check that out. And I I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2963s"},{"start_seconds":2970,"text":"really uh want to emphasize to people, I think this is stuff that's good to look into if you are a builder and you want to see a different approach to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2970s"},{"start_seconds":2979,"text":"architecture and different ways of deploying a product. Uh, this is the kind of stuff that I think is is worth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2979s"},{"start_seconds":2986,"text":"kind of jumping into. So, uh, again, Peter, thank you so much for taking the time coming on here and kind of walking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2986s"},{"start_seconds":2994,"text":"us through. Yeah. Thanks for and we look forward to seeing what what other projects you come out with. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=2994s"},{"start_seconds":3001,"text":"There there is a lot to I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. All right. Thank you.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3001s"},{"start_seconds":3009,"text":"Thank you. Yeah. Uh yeah, folks, I I think again uh definitely again here I'll pull it back up one more time here.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3009s"},{"start_seconds":3017,"text":"Uh check out his book. Uh it's really it's one of those things where as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3017s"},{"start_seconds":3023,"text":"someone who builds products and myself that I'm very interested in architecture and uh trying to understand different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3023s"},{"start_seconds":3032,"text":"ways of deploying products uh you know learning about web assembly and how you can make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3032s"},{"start_seconds":3040,"text":"that as part of your infrastructure how that can be kind of become that it's just a good learning lesson even if you don't ever use it I think it's just a good to see what are some of different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3040s"},{"start_seconds":3049,"text":"alternatives and as Peter talked about during this discussion of the issues with some of the current and legacy type","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3049s"},{"start_seconds":3057,"text":"of architecture setups for software and where you can get hung up and what kind of problems are then solved by something like web assembly uh it's definitely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3057s"},{"start_seconds":3065,"text":"really interesting uh if you are interested in building on blockchain again at near the contracts do compile into wom so there is all that stuff","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3065s"},{"start_seconds":3074,"text":"that's why again like this type of stuff around, you know, experimentation is so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3074s"},{"start_seconds":3082,"text":"important because like we're really at that early days of maybe what's possible there and starting to push those limits.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3082s"},{"start_seconds":3090,"text":"And so as you start to see those things and again as some other guests that I've had on here uh as well like Elliot and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3090s"},{"start_seconds":3097,"text":"such who are really big into experimenting, trying different things, experimentation can lead to products and can lead to different ideas. So, I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3097s"},{"start_seconds":3106,"text":"really really encourage people to kind of check that stuff out. Um, before we go, uh, we'll be back live again same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3106s"},{"start_seconds":3113,"text":"time next week. As always, uh, if you have not already signed up to our newsletter, uh, down at the bottom, uh,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3113s"},{"start_seconds":3121,"text":"we are sending out a newsletter each and every week about kind of near development, uh, near AI stuff that's happening, just kind of some development","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3121s"},{"start_seconds":3130,"text":"topics in general. Uh, I I really encourage you to kind of keep up with that. There is a lot happening especially here in the near ecosystem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3130s"},{"start_seconds":3137,"text":"that I think is worth keeping up with uh if you're interested. So check out our newsletter. Any kind of support you might need jump into any of our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3137s"},{"start_seconds":3145,"text":"different telegram groups. We here at DevHub are here to help with all that type of building and stuff like that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3145s"},{"start_seconds":3151,"text":"And if you have topic ideas, if you have things that you want to see, if you have guests that you'd like to have come on here and kind of deep dive into some of our stuff, please uh reach out to me. Uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3151s"},{"start_seconds":3159,"text":"my handle is on the screen. and you're more than welcome to reach out and I'm happy to uh discuss having on different projects as well too. Uh so until next","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3159s"},{"start_seconds":3167,"text":"week uh this has been another awesome episode. I hope everybody learned something and we will see you again same time next week. Bye now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc&t=3167s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=XAyi1VPY2Rc","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/XAyi1VPY2Rc"}