{"id":"Ww8XDdpw2Pk","title":"Fireside Chat with NEAR | Ep: 3 Benny Giang from Dapper Labs","description":"In the 3rd episode of the Fireside Chat series, we had  Benny Giang from Dapper Labs discuss with Sasha and Peter about the history of CryptoKitties, CheezeWizards, and the future of Blockchain. He also goes into detail about how to create cool and creative marketing strategies. \n\n------ About Fireside Chat Series --------\n\nNEAR's Fireside Chat is a video series where we will be speaking with different blockchain company founders, makers to discuss how they got in the space, what motivates them and their vision in making an impact.   \n\nFollow the latest from NEAR Protocol on, \n\nDiscord: https://near.ai/discord\nMedium: https://near.ai/medium\nTwitter: https://near.ai/twitter\nGitHub: https://near.ai/github","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2019-09-12T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/Ww8XDdpw2Pk/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"on our end we wear Peter and Sasha I do business the open here heading here so we talk to a lot of projects actually early on because of kind of the way our product roadmap worked out is of we focused a lot in gaming space open web as well as gaming so we inhabit was a lot of gaming projects and sorry al-ghazali exciting like a public post look very very long unwieldy more post about it so I'm very excited to talk to you today about it and I'm Peter I'm heading up developer experience I think about how people can build stuff better and faster and then I'm also personally interested because I have cheese wizards and crypto kitties in my dapper wallet so we can talk about that earlier that's awesome well hey sash young Peter thanks for having me on this show or meeting it's really exciting to finally hop on a call we've been trying to raise this for a few weeks now or maybe a month and it's finally happening so really excited to be speaking to you guys and talking about what we're working on and what we did in the past there's just so many amazing stories that we could discuss here cool so why don't you kick off by telling us a little bit about your background yeah so my background I went to business school I was born in Calgary it's a smaller city in Canada and it's known for oil and gas so a lot of my friends growing up got jobs working in you know either up north and the oil rigs or in the large buildings downtown in Calgary relating to oil and gas and natural resources so that's where I grew up and then I moved to Vancouver in the last three years and joined axioms n which is the parent company of dapper laughs as I said I went to business school and I studied a lot about psychology and entrepreneurship and marketing and I actually dropped out of school in my third year and started working for a startup company that wasn't they grew really really fast and within a year and a half's time I took a break from a semester and I never really returned and then I moved to Kamloops and I worked at another startup called light ship works they built like a internet or industrial Internet of Things devices to help trap workers in oil fields and mining and forestry and so I had a very interesting kind of path of learning from startups and understanding more about marketing and product and growth hacking and and now I also spend quite a lot of time working with the designers so it's kind of this whole range of things that I've discovered in the tech industry after I kind of took the leap and took a break from school and never really returned so that's kind of been my background and at axioms M which is the parent company I'd started about six and a half years ago from roham and Sam Rohan was a VC and he went to Stanford and use a VC in Silicon Valley and the premise of axioms n was to bring together really smart serial entrepreneurs or founder like people together under one roof to build ventures together one of the fundamental problems of Silicon Valley is typically you build a start-up with your best friends or people that you went to school with and you raise some money or you go to YC and you know the attrition rate of these startups are really high rate a lot of them just don't succeed and these really strong bonds and friendships that people form just break purely because they've run out of money or it just didn't work out and these people usually find jobs at Facebook or Google or Apple and this we see very commonly right and so the point of axiom Zen was to you know bring together all of these smart people who love working with each other and build ventures together so in the last six-and-a-half years axioms in working with Fortune 500 companies to build products together and some in some form and forming joint ventures as well and also the revenues that we made from working with these partners we built our own startups internally so we definitely don't come from like a Bitcoin you know early Bitcoin millionaire whatever like backgrounds our background has been building products in the enterprise in b2b space we've actually spun up to successful companies once called Zen hub it's a project management software and it's good alternative Trello JIRA asana their largest client is IBM there's about 40,000 licenses there and same with NASA Jet Propulsion lab and Microsoft oh yeah we use in half as well oh you do yeah that house yeah it's a great product the team's actually in the same office as us they were doing great there about 30 ish employees and they're growing really fast the second company that we spun out is called real TIFF ik they built a routing API for food delivery and fleet service companies and they were also part of tax stars in New York so they spun out and they're man they're growing really fast and focusing mainly in the BTB side and when I joined about three years ago I worked on a few other projects in the company I worked on a virtual reality streaming platform called bash I worked on a fencing project briefly I worked on Zen hub for a bit I also worked on a few games that the company was working on at that time there was also a dating app that we worked on and a like pseudo anonymous chat app that was really interesting because people at work started to test it and share a lot of secrets within the company and that was a really fun experiment and I spent most of my time at axioms and since I've been here for three years on a specific product about a year and a half on this product called Toby Topy as part of the Y Combinator startup school and essentially it's a Chrome extension for productivity helps you manage all your browser tops when you have it all kind of packed into your chromic your Chrome and so we worked on that mean Arthur for about a year and a half and grew up to about 250,000 users and we ran some pilots with Twitter from new New Relic and bizarre voice and a few other larger companies but as explaining you know the one difficult part of building startup companies is kind of crossing the chasm and making sure the business model matches with product right and with Toby we spent a considerable amount of time trying to find a business model where the 5 or 10-year projection could reach a potential of 100 million ARR that's kind of the aim for axioms n when we build ventures together and so we just really couldn't wrap our heads around some of the math there we did the pilots and we kind of tried to cross the chasm and I think that Toby would have been a great one to 5 million dollar a our our business which you know for two-man team would have been amazing but for us our eyes on a bigger prize and so me and Arthur joins the cryptically team which was very very small at that time there was about four other engineers plus a designer and then the two of us doing in a total of seven and we built the alpha version of crypto beauties we launched it at F Waterloo and then the rest I think you know everyone knows the story of crypto kiddies and kind of present day now we've spun out a separate company from axiom called dapper laughs and dapper labs owns crypto kitties and dapper as you mention and cheese wizards and also doing a ton of R&D and other stuff it was in the company and so that's kind of how the structure is its axioms and dapper labs and hub wrote if ik and a ton of other projects that we've built in the past as well hopefully that gives you an overview of of us as a company in our background and where we come from and when you are so small like at seven people what were the things that were important for you to focus for you and Arthur to kind of complement that the team that was mostly like technical and designer so at that time dealer or CTO and Fabiano we're working on the ERC center in one contract for sure they took at sander and mean Arthur we work really well together in understanding and being obsessed by the user I still remember that there's this one story where I had just joined crypto kiddies and I was still learning a lot about blockchain this is maybe spring 2017 and so I I knew about Bitcoin I didn't know much about the technology blockchain and I was listening like two podcasts a day lower chin and a ton of other ones and trying to catch up the speed and I remember I went to Fabiano I was like hey can you show me how to breed these cats together and he said yeah no problem and then he he sent me websites right my ether wallet and then he sent me on slack the ABI for the smart contract for crypto kitty and then he's like yeah I'll paste that in there and then I'm gonna send you some rinkeby eath and i don't know what the hell this is and then he said call this function and i called the function and then we waited a bit and we looked at ether scan and then it complete it's right and I looked at Fabian I was like hey so can I see the cat oh not really but it's there in your wallet and that's the one thing that me and Arthur looked at and we're like no way like we could not go to if Waterloo at the hackathon and ask developers to do this like this is this is if we're building a game it has to have a visual interface so about two weeks before the hackathon we scrambled to build a website that had like a really crazy viral marketing campaign that I I've kind of built mean Arthur built and then not only that we built an alpha version where I was on Rigby and people could see their titties and they could breathe and I think that is the type of thing that mean Arthur bring to the table is being obsessed by the user and seeing it from fresh pairs of fresh pair of eyes of like what would people think when they see this and we do this all the time with and with tapper we always assume the position of I don't know anything about blockchain how does this feel and sometimes when we're building highly technical projects like you guys are aware you really get lost in the details and when you zoom out people like normal people are just like what is this this is so confusing right and so that's that's something that is really important to never lose sight of mm-hmm yep and maybe you can elaborate a little bit on this viral loop that you create us yeah so I like to do weird campaigns as you could tell with the floating trees and my background what we did was have a 24 hour livestream of like a kitty shelter that was on basically running on the website and people were watching these cats kind of sleep and eat and do whatever and on the website there were memes that would show up based on Easter eggs that people would unlock so sometimes you got to click 50 times and then a meme would show up sometimes need to wait 6 hours and the meme will show up when the meme shows up whether it's a spongebob one or Doge you click on it and it reveals a sentence that's encrypted and so people had to kind of go through all of these Easter eggs and piece together all of the phrases and then kind of read what that phrase is and send us an email of the answer and the people who did we sent them like t-shirts and some of them we actually work together in designing a kitty together so there's actually some fancy cats and cookies that are prizes based on the fact that they solve the puzzle early on and also increase the Kitty's website know if you've seen but if you open up the console you will see we actually never removed it we wrote the cat a Festo in the console of cryptic kitties and that was kind of like a last-minute addition from our end for me and Arthur really hey wouldn't it be cool all right something I can't spin the console and still to the date to date it's still there and so that was written in like maybe summer of 2017 near the time that we were going to launch so that was the the campaign in crazy website I also at F Waterloo I bought a bunch of pokemon cards and because the thing is there's a lot of swag that's given out to people at conferences and hackathons and it's like piece of paper people throw away they don't treasure it right so also you know what people won't throw up throw away pokemon cards because they people have a relationship with them so I bought them and I created these really simple like cats were coming to the blockchain with crypto keys that see a website on it and I stuck it on the back of the Pokemon cards and at the hackathon I just handed it out to all of the people and like hey go try the alpha version of crypto kiddies and people like kept still today people tell me like hey I still kept my pokemon card the head crypto Kitty sticker on it and to me like that was way cheaper than printing a bunch of cards and not only that people feel like they have an attachment to it and so all of that together with the crazy website was part of the launch of crypto keys so when you're coming up with that idea like that like something that's a little bit crazy do you ever get pushback from other people or do you you know like do you know if there's that are there any ideas that you wanted to do that you ended up not doing yeah we always mean aren't there always get pushback I remember that when we built that though we kind of secretly over the weekend built that live streaming website and then we show the team and they were just like oh it's off-brand its it's like so bright and it's neon it doesn't match it and I was like you know what like what are we doing we're doing some crazy here like work put they were making AB digital we're building the world's first watching game we're calling it crypto kitties and like these cats are like weird in their genetics like we must kind of embrace its rate and be part of culture rather than like playing it safe and having a little very you know basic camp that everyone does right so I think a lot of them were biting their nails and they're like okay I mean let's just see how it goes and I think it went well it's people started to see it and a lot more traffic came and so they're like you know okay I guess it kind of work so there's always like internal like fear of like people not receiving it well externally I think that people the only call one of the the common feedback that we got from this website was like hey can we donate crypto to help these cats in the shelter I mean we actually added a address link where people send money or said if - and then we sent it in US dollars to the shelter so that was the one thing that people ask for because they wanted to help the cats and they were watching the cats but all in all I mean it was well well received because at that time it was like the ICO boom right and so every every week everyone's I see doing the websites look the same it's always like those interconnected nets and like that and and like some crazy you know fancy words and on the website but when they looked at ours like what the hell is going on I still remember I was DMing press like Lauren and everybody on Twitter and like hey Kathir Kumu blockchain and then they were just like what are you talking about and like you're like are you high or so 10 there's like they just ignored me they never took it seriously and the only person who actually wrote the first article for Kirklees was June from Coyne dusk at that time he was at courts but I had to what happened was like cryptic kitties the transaction volumes started to climb more and more a lot more people started to play it and I kept sending him screenshots of the like every 5% increase of like the total transactions and I think when it got to like 15 percent of the total if you're in network he was like fine I'll write about it and he wrote the first article and then I wrote the next one and then everything everything came after that but yeah there was a very interesting story with Casey Newton he was a reporter from The Verge I sent him like a cold email with the headline catcher comes in the blockchain and the funny thing is a key screen shot at that subject line and he tweeted it and he said I'm going back to bed and I saw his tweet and I was like kind of like man this guy is missing out and after we've been covered by like vice BBC and box I tweeted back to him like hey you know what do you think you think like cats a gots a common blockchain and he didn't respond but I think that it would have been a great opportunity for him if he looked into it a little bit more so these are really funny stories of the early days of cryptic kitties right that's super fun yeah I'm always interested in you know cuz if you look at anything that was successful in hindsight it seems inevitable that it was gonna succeed but it's so interesting to hear about the uncertainty of even the marketing campaign yeah and I find that really interesting yeah marketing campaigns are yeah they're they're a beast and you have to draw from a lot of sources you can't be looking at people within the space so to say that much otherwise you just do what they're doing internally when I spend time thinking about like a launch strategy I usually centered it around like a rap album so the four for crypto kitties the inspiration of the list launch was the wu-tang clan and I kind of had a full story about it in a slide deck to the team of like what what we're going to do what is the emotion that we want to invoke and then with the Cheeseman wizard launch in during New York blockchain week this this year the focus of it was around the NAS and since we were going to new I felt like it was fitting so that's kind of been my process of centering around rap album and getting really deep in that and and correlating it to the craziness that we like to invoke into people so why don't you tell me a little bit about the she's Wizards lunch what was that like yeah Xochitl so New York blockchain week I've got to admit and I'll be honest it was a it was the craziest thing that we've done as a team like we launched dapper wallet at that time we launched cheese wizards there and I did another side project within the Apple labs that was digital fashion it was on this the first the world's first digital dress on the blockchain called iridescent we saw that on the serial summit 495 Hunter it's close to 10,000 and so we did we lost three things at once at the same time we attended all of the conferences and we spoke at all of the conference's and even the panel's and not only that we did some strategic partnerships with other the get coin in a few other projects at these conferences and not only that we organize their own Meetup that had other partners involved and to top that off we sponsored East New York so we were a sponsor and we were helping people with using the adapter test net and using it for the hackathon so it was just the most intense period of of my life and I think the teams as well a lot of runningback and for the cheese was our hackathon or sorry the cheese wizard launch the the campaign was a it's a little bit more teams than cryptic you tease but one of the key points of it was adding cheese to our Twitter names which you may still see with a lot of the dapper louse employees but not only that our investors and not and also influencers in the space start we asked them all to put a cheese emoji in their Twitter name to kind of build up the like what a wise is why is there cheese here like what is the connection the cheese wizard website was really cool and it displayed like it was very interactive as you as you've seen and what we also did was I another thing that I do is every time I travel to speak at a conference in a region I designed a new swag or new merch for just the team members to wear so I designed these very orange cheese wizard jackets that's a team wore and it has I like to play on like street culture so I'm sure maybe you guys know antisocial social club so in the back it's a cheese wizard social club and so I like to kind of remix these things because people from afar they'll see like a social club and it's the same exact font but then they see a new thing which is cheese wizard so it's all about kind of incepting these ideas into people's vision and and in baits and when I went to Shanghai last year just speak at China joy I design like a pink hoodie that's like blinding your eyes and on the main stage like it just really differentiates rate because everyone's wearing like t-shirt and it says like whatever name your company but there's so much more great things you could do in the clothing that you wear and I think the people who really took it to the next level and I was actually really impressed by it was Bank J a means team at one of the conference's they the whole team shaved their head or whatever and they dyed it to pink or some of them shave their head but this the girls just all dyed it bright pink and I was like wow that that is commitment but that's kind of the craziness that we were in right so yeah cheese wizards we did presentations we did a lot of teasers we actually we we kind of revealed some of the pictures of the wizards in a very closed-door setting but what we kind of expected it to be shared or leaked and so that was kind of the strategy for it and at that time now like it's different from from cryptokeys where we started from zero right now we're at a point where we have the cryptic kitties the email basis like in the hundreds of thousands so we have a baseline of distribution and so we obviously will kind of build the campaign around that and at the events we spoke to it and more the clothes and the cheese so that was kind of like cheese wizard launch and going forward so like what's that for you're just for you kind of going forward to an extent you can share so dapper Labs has some two big initiatives the first initiatives is forming a gaming studio right now in total Sapir loss is about 110 team members and we're 98% based in Vancouver we have a few team members in New York and in Los Angeles and some in Europe but not too many and we're really diverse as well in total I think we speak over like 22 languages and we come from like 20 countries so it's a lot of people who the good thing about Canada is that immigration and having people come to and move to Canada and live here is is much easier than in the States as you guys know there's a lot of challenges for tech employees in the US and makes them have to I guess move up to Vancouver or something like that so 110 team members so about like 50% or 60% is in the gaming studio and we have some of the best game designers from like EVE Online from Zynga from Disney from Glu Mobile we also have the lead producer of FIFA who's working on the NBA game and so the gaming studio the whole point of it is to build their own IP like cheese wizards in crypto kitties but as you now are aware of working on the NBA game for 2020 it's really going to be a really big effort from us and we're also in discussions or it's like Hollywood studios music labels gaming companies eSports teams and celebrities and was and we're gonna continue to build consumer blockchain experiences on that side the second side of the company is around technology and that's where diapers hits and also our R&D team the point of I mean our route is in building technology products so that's kind of where we're most comfortable with but since now we've kind of gotten used to doing two things at once and all that side we're working on tapper as you know and improving that Android Android we're doing a lot of tests on the Android app and yeah so we're streamlining that and our d-dave looked into it's led by our CTO and they've done tons of like out of all years worth of like looking into other protocols and scale scaling and all these other things because you need to kind of explore all those ankles so that's kind of how dapper Labs is set up currently I spend most of my time in the studio site sometimes I dip my toes into dapper and the R&D team I barely dip a toe there yeah and did you have to also expand your YouTube I guess it seems like you guys like really grew up like since like you started with seven people now you're like over 100 what about yourself do you have like a gross team as well or yeah so we yeah we were 70 to 110 yes we hired a lot and not only that we brought on a lot of engineers and designers from axioms n to come on board to dapper lives so that helped a lot because a lot of people already knew each other it's not like completely new culture and for the growth of marketing team that is definitely expanded we have now in total let me see ten in total before it was like maybe two or three so it has grown significantly and we have like marketing managers who now for me I spent most of my time trying to solve the most critical problems for the company and right now cheese wizards is getting ready for its the tournament that's coming so I'm spending a lot of my time on cheese wizards but we have a marketing manager that's managing cryptic kitties and then also dapper and then we have a marketing manager for NBA and so that's kind of how its structured currently and I also had a question about composability because remember one like cryptic ideas started bunch of people started like building other contracts on top of it right kiti burski key cards things like that and so on with Wizards I know you're doing like hackathon right now is I do so there's some like experimentation there do you see like a lot of engagement from developer community like willing to kind of build things on top or yeah so just for clarification the hackathon we're doing with coin list and I do is doing their own separate one but it's just so that we both announced at the same time and then the kind of people thought it was mixed in my idea was mostly focus from working with protocols and in feroz's specifically to cheese wizards so far we have over like 300 330 registered developers and there is more than 20 projects being worked on as far as we're aware and there's a lot of excitement um you know one of the things when we build triptych is we realize like hey people like wanted to start to build tools on top of cryptic cities or build gaming experiences on top of it in the beginning we were just like okay like this is kind of cool but then we started to realize like you know this is the this is the this was what make blockchain games different rate blocking games are open ecosystem where people could build and remix and compose you know bring a kitty into a different space and involved it etc and we called that the kitty verse and that was amazing it was really our first try and we had to ground and we flew some of the developers in and spent time with them and some of them we've hired and brought on board so we learned a ton from this whole extensibility aspect of boxing games it helped us further further our thinking about what blotching games are in compared to normal games that exists like mobile games or PC games and with cheese wizards since the whole concept the cheese wizard is a battle royale game on the blockchain there's a lot of complicated functions and logic that is embedded in the smart contract the coolest thing about cheese Wizards is that it has the ability for anyone around the world to organize a decentralized tournament by basically forking the contract and putting a new front end or a new back end or putting its Chinese translation or Russian translations and then having your own cheese's or tournament where people who own cheese wizard entities can buy in and participate and there's never been a game that has been thinking about tournaments in that aspect of let's just give the power to the people right and so that's that's why cheese was very interesting and the whole premise of doing this hackathon with coinless is to engage the the broader developer community to build something that they could actually see and touch there's a lot of protocol hackathons where it's like hey you know build this on cosmos so build this on polkadot or build on near write but there are people who also want to just build fun things that people can see and play with and has usability so we've seen a lot of good reception on that and we hope that more what I call blockchain native games will will come up and a lot more people will participate in the ecosystem you know and in terms of geographies do you see particular it's of geographies like being the most early adopters in terms of gaming for cheese wizards yeah so as if most of our our network in games it it is us is quite dominant unfortunately for cheese wizards Canadians cannot play it because of you know the regulations that that are there even in the states there are a few stay few US states that don't allow this and it's all written in the the details on the website but yeah I think US is the primary one we have also a strong base in Europe one of the top players if Kritika DS his player name is kitten mittens he's based in the Scandinavian area so he's a hardcore like blockchain game player so we do have a mix of Europe European and for cryptically is just the game in general we we had played we have a community in in China and and players in Japan and Korea although not as large as North America there are still a lot of people who enjoy the game there I wanted to ask another question which is we've been talking about all of these successes I was wondering if you wanted to share any sort of war stories about a mistake that you made or something that you learned that you had to recover from and what you learned from it of course if you're willing right so I learned a really important lesson when cryptic kitties was growing really fast in the beginning I was still new to the concept of consensus and mining etc and at one point the network was so cloth and I was like oh why don't we just talk to the miners like just call him up you know like pick up the phone and be like hey can you prioritize our transactions and so I talked to my friend his name Spencer and he worked at f2 pool which is all large largest mining pools and I talked to him the hey is there any way that you could kind of like just mind that the the cryptic kiddies transactions first or something like just help it kind of decrease the load and he's like no we can't really do that it's like you know this is just a network we cannot do anything about it and I was like what do you mean man like isn't it like you know Google Google cloud platform like or Amazon Webster's like just increasing bump it up and that was a lesson that we learned as a team wow we're dealing with something that's entirely different there was also another thing about cryptic duties that we learned which is um when you breed the kitties or when you give birth to the kitties there's a fee that fee is meant to incentivize people to run birther or Auto birders so just like people having GPUs to mind crypto people could have in the early day set up GPU to give birth to kitties in a decentralized way and at one point the fee we increased it so it had extra incentives for people around the world to help give birth to kitties because these kitties were stuck in labor for many many many hours very delayed and at one point the user stopped started to tell us that hey the fees so expensive I could not even I don't even want to breed a kitty anymore and so trying to balance that we decreased it and essentially all of the auto brothers shut down except our own and essentially we left us on giving birth to kitties as fast as we can in her office overnight and we burnt I think like a few tens of thousands of dollars overnight because we were paying out of pocket to give birth to all of the kitties around the world and so one thing that we learn is like kind of when we build these mechanisms that is on the smart contract and we want to have these kind of crypto economics work especially with cheese wizards we think more carefully now of how to balance these things now we can't expect everything there's always gonna be crazy education but we're more cautious now and not only that we always go through auditing a third-party auditing for our spawn contracts and if you guys I mean if you guys are ever curious we've already gotten some great feedback on the cheese with our smart contracts in how saw that they are and how unique they are and compared to other ones that are out there a lot of people as you know with cryptic Katie's date just cloned the cryptic Kitty's contract and then kind of added a little bit of extra things and we we love that I think that's great that's the point that's the point of being open source and with the cheese wizards I think it will set a new standard in this new type of game and people will definitely clone it and use it as an example so that's kind of what we've learned through all this entire process and and how do you think you know this this open source thing of people working it and cloning it do you think that's going to increase in the future I mean how do you think the industry will evolve around you know just crypto gaming what are your predictions for the future of crypto gaming yeah so I think 2020 is going to be a big splash for and a big test for mainstream adoption as far as I'm aware NBA is going to be like the biggest hypothesis that we're going to test up until now what we've done is you know kind of build the community within the crypto industry and go to these conferences and you know not only that work with all the blockchain games around the world and have extensibility across these ecosystem well what we've kind of realized now that we're entering into q4 is that no matter how many cross-pollination either from protocol levels or many protocols or on the level of blockchain games or even with gaps like 0x et cetera there's just not enough people in the PI no matter what at this point and it's a hard reality and we have we see the reality because we directly receive players who play the gates who spend the money right and so for us we're going to try a different approach in 2020 where we go from above and work within IP and distribute through the NBA Network and even go into the games and engage the audience and really learn what what makes the mainstream audience tick around blockchain related collectables so that's going to be a big test for us and right now as I said like blockchain native games I think that there is kind of like a fork that's happening it's not a bad thing I think there's just two ways of potentially doing something and the way that I think about blocking native games is like think about when the iPhone was created right a lot of people who were building flash games on the web tried to kind of importer and import it into the iPhone or to convert it into an amiable game but it just didn't really work right people who recognize that the iPhone had in a cellar ometer it had touchscreen and had these camera features those are the companies that build Angry Birds or supercell who built clash of clans and candy crush is because they realized that hey we should build a game around this device and maximize the potential of it and those have become billions of dollar company right and so for us when when we're building blocks in native games which will continue to do so in the future is looking at the blockchain as it is and finding the reasons that are far beyond just entities that have the game mechanic the game logic on the blockchain and decentralized and making that part of the experience right now we see other companies who are just building normal games and then somewhere in the menus in the settings you could convert your items or heroes into an n of T and that's pretty much if for us it's like that's kind of like a game with the blockchain plug in and it serves a interesting I mean it serves a purpose and maybe these are the games that will get into the PlayStation Store or the Xbox store and have distribution but it's so little as a 10% blockchain it doesn't even really affect anything right so I think that you know we'll connect we're gonna continue to build blockchain native games where we see it as it is and we maximize the potential of that cool and also when you think about that MDA launch do you think it will be a big test for like usability said oh it's like onboarding flow and how to make walking invisible for people as mass-market bill will join for the first time in a big way or is it will be a more test of luck scalability or is it something entirely different yeah it's gonna be both to be honest it's going to be like we've already started you know mapping doing a lot of user testing with NBA fans and we've one of the insight that actually we had a meeting yesterday about it was that true ownership or true whatever you want to call it that is related you know the words that were used to to the NBA fans who some of them actually even own Bitcoin they told us like I don't know what the hell true ownership is or digital ownership like what do you mean by that and I think we part of us already know that but it's it's like it's something that you keep hearing and it's like okay well I guess we can not use true ownership or digital ownership on the website people don't care about these things and so we're learning a ton and of course part of that is working with the dapper team to even make the flow even better for for the NBA fans and then on top of that like scalability unarmed each side led by dieter kind of looking into how we could really scale this up so yeah that is definitely on the horizon well we're just about out of time but I wanted to finish with a question I asked everybody which is do you have any advice for people who are starting blockchain companies now or maybe they're creating a watching game or they're just maybe playing with the idea creating a blockchain project yeah what would your advice be for them people just starting out you guys is hard as it's really difficult building a decentralized app building smart contract should not be taken lightly the amount of the analogy that I have is is similar to sending a satellite into space right you you are practically like SpaceX right so the the chances of failure are really high and just like how you know there's no people don't go up into space and grab faulty satellites down and bring it down the recycle it just stays up there in the atmosphere so whenever you build a decentralized app if you have any intention of longevity of it or the potential of not having millions or hundreds and millions of dollars being stolen you have to kind of be very careful and it's kind of counter to agile engineering development and everything that you've learned in Silicon Valley really build things break things he sets or move fast in in this one aspect it's all about perfection and it's all about being very thorough and having a different mindsets everything else whether it's the front end or the back end yeah go crazy but really spend time and the effort in making sure the smart contracts are solid and if they are solid you know you're that's how you're gonna make your name right that's how you're going to really contribute to the space because people need high quality code in order to fork or to clone and use that as an example or a baseline for higher quality projects so it's all kind of interconnected and you know keep at it and we're always our doors is always open to to help developers or around the world if they have any questions and a lot of this is you know just like you guys it's all new right and we're all just exploring and there's so much to learn and so much to share cool well thanks very much many this has been really interesting well thank you so much Peter and Sasha really appreciated the the chat today and yeah let's keep in touch oh thank you for your time no problem take care","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-04T04:28:22.107Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":3,"text":"on our end we wear Peter and Sasha I do business the open here heading here so we talk to a lot of projects actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=3s"},{"start_seconds":10,"text":"early on because of kind of the way our product roadmap worked out is of we focused a lot in gaming space open web","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=10s"},{"start_seconds":17,"text":"as well as gaming so we inhabit was a lot of gaming projects and sorry al-ghazali exciting like a public post","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=17s"},{"start_seconds":25,"text":"look very very long unwieldy more post about it so I'm very excited to talk to you today about it and I'm Peter I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=25s"},{"start_seconds":33,"text":"heading up developer experience I think about how people can build stuff better and faster and then I'm also personally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=33s"},{"start_seconds":41,"text":"interested because I have cheese wizards and crypto kitties in my dapper wallet so we can talk about that earlier","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=41s"},{"start_seconds":49,"text":"that's awesome well hey sash young Peter thanks for having me on this show or meeting it's really exciting to finally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=49s"},{"start_seconds":58,"text":"hop on a call we've been trying to raise this for a few weeks now or maybe a month and it's finally happening so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=58s"},{"start_seconds":65,"text":"really excited to be speaking to you guys and talking about what we're working on and what we did in the past there's just so many amazing stories","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=65s"},{"start_seconds":74,"text":"that we could discuss here cool so why don't you kick off by telling us a little bit about your background yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=74s"},{"start_seconds":82,"text":"so my background I went to business school I was born in Calgary it's a smaller city in Canada and it's known","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=82s"},{"start_seconds":92,"text":"for oil and gas so a lot of my friends growing up got jobs working in you know either up north and the oil rigs or in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=92s"},{"start_seconds":101,"text":"the large buildings downtown in Calgary relating to oil and gas and natural resources so that's where I grew up and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=101s"},{"start_seconds":109,"text":"then I moved to Vancouver in the last three years and joined axioms n which is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=109s"},{"start_seconds":116,"text":"the parent company of dapper laughs as I said I went to business school and I studied a lot about psychology and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=116s"},{"start_seconds":123,"text":"entrepreneurship and marketing and I actually dropped out of school in my third year and started working for a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=123s"},{"start_seconds":131,"text":"startup company that wasn't they grew really really fast and within a year and a half's time I took a break","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=131s"},{"start_seconds":139,"text":"from a semester and I never really returned and then I moved to Kamloops and I worked at another startup called","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=139s"},{"start_seconds":145,"text":"light ship works they built like a internet or industrial Internet of Things devices to help trap workers in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=145s"},{"start_seconds":154,"text":"oil fields and mining and forestry and so I had a very interesting kind of path","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=154s"},{"start_seconds":161,"text":"of learning from startups and understanding more about marketing and product and growth hacking and and now I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=161s"},{"start_seconds":170,"text":"also spend quite a lot of time working with the designers so it's kind of this whole range of things that I've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=170s"},{"start_seconds":177,"text":"discovered in the tech industry after I kind of took the leap and took a break from school and never really returned so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=177s"},{"start_seconds":185,"text":"that's kind of been my background and at axioms M which is the parent company I'd started about six and a half years ago","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=185s"},{"start_seconds":193,"text":"from roham and Sam Rohan was a VC and he went to Stanford and use a VC in Silicon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=193s"},{"start_seconds":200,"text":"Valley and the premise of axioms n was to bring together really smart serial","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=200s"},{"start_seconds":207,"text":"entrepreneurs or founder like people together under one roof to build ventures together one of the fundamental","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=207s"},{"start_seconds":214,"text":"problems of Silicon Valley is typically you build a start-up with your best friends or people that you went to school with and you raise some money or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=214s"},{"start_seconds":223,"text":"you go to YC and you know the attrition rate of these startups are really high rate a lot of them just don't succeed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=223s"},{"start_seconds":230,"text":"and these really strong bonds and friendships that people form just break purely because they've run out of money","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=230s"},{"start_seconds":237,"text":"or it just didn't work out and these people usually find jobs at Facebook or Google or Apple and this we see very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=237s"},{"start_seconds":245,"text":"commonly right and so the point of axiom Zen was to you know bring together all of these smart people who love working","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=245s"},{"start_seconds":253,"text":"with each other and build ventures together so in the last six-and-a-half years axioms in working with Fortune 500","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=253s"},{"start_seconds":261,"text":"companies to build products together and some in some form and forming joint ventures as well and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=261s"},{"start_seconds":270,"text":"also the revenues that we made from working with these partners we built our own startups internally so we definitely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=270s"},{"start_seconds":277,"text":"don't come from like a Bitcoin you know early Bitcoin millionaire whatever like backgrounds our background has been","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=277s"},{"start_seconds":285,"text":"building products in the enterprise in b2b space we've actually spun up to successful companies once called Zen hub","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=285s"},{"start_seconds":293,"text":"it's a project management software and it's good alternative Trello JIRA asana","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=293s"},{"start_seconds":300,"text":"their largest client is IBM there's about 40,000 licenses there and same with NASA Jet Propulsion lab and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=300s"},{"start_seconds":308,"text":"Microsoft oh yeah we use in half as well oh you do yeah that house yeah it's a great product the team's actually in the same office as us they were doing great","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=308s"},{"start_seconds":317,"text":"there about 30 ish employees and they're growing really fast the second company that we spun out is called real TIFF ik","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=317s"},{"start_seconds":323,"text":"they built a routing API for food delivery and fleet service companies and they were also part of tax stars in New","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=323s"},{"start_seconds":331,"text":"York so they spun out and they're man they're growing really fast and focusing mainly in the BTB side and when I joined","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=331s"},{"start_seconds":339,"text":"about three years ago I worked on a few other projects in the company I worked on a virtual reality streaming platform","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=339s"},{"start_seconds":346,"text":"called bash I worked on a fencing project briefly I worked on Zen hub for a bit I also worked on a few games that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=346s"},{"start_seconds":355,"text":"the company was working on at that time there was also a dating app that we worked on and a like pseudo anonymous","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=355s"},{"start_seconds":363,"text":"chat app that was really interesting because people at work started to test it and share a lot of secrets within the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=363s"},{"start_seconds":370,"text":"company and that was a really fun experiment and I spent most of my time at axioms and since I've been here for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=370s"},{"start_seconds":378,"text":"three years on a specific product about a year and a half on this product called Toby Topy as part of the Y Combinator","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=378s"},{"start_seconds":386,"text":"startup school and essentially it's a Chrome extension for productivity helps you manage all your browser tops when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=386s"},{"start_seconds":394,"text":"you have it all kind of packed into your chromic your Chrome and so we worked on that mean Arthur for about a year and a half and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=394s"},{"start_seconds":402,"text":"grew up to about 250,000 users and we ran some pilots with Twitter from new New Relic and bizarre voice and a few","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=402s"},{"start_seconds":410,"text":"other larger companies but as explaining you know the one difficult part of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=410s"},{"start_seconds":417,"text":"building startup companies is kind of crossing the chasm and making sure the business model matches with product","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=417s"},{"start_seconds":424,"text":"right and with Toby we spent a considerable amount of time trying to find a business model where the 5 or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=424s"},{"start_seconds":432,"text":"10-year projection could reach a potential of 100 million ARR that's kind of the aim for axioms n when we build ventures together and so we just really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=432s"},{"start_seconds":442,"text":"couldn't wrap our heads around some of the math there we did the pilots and we kind of tried to cross the chasm and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=442s"},{"start_seconds":450,"text":"think that Toby would have been a great one to 5 million dollar a our our business which you know for two-man team","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=450s"},{"start_seconds":457,"text":"would have been amazing but for us our eyes on a bigger prize and so me and Arthur joins the cryptically team which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=457s"},{"start_seconds":465,"text":"was very very small at that time there was about four other engineers plus a designer and then the two of us doing in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=465s"},{"start_seconds":472,"text":"a total of seven and we built the alpha version of crypto beauties we launched it at F Waterloo and then the rest I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=472s"},{"start_seconds":480,"text":"think you know everyone knows the story of crypto kiddies and kind of present day now we've spun out a separate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=480s"},{"start_seconds":488,"text":"company from axiom called dapper laughs and dapper labs owns crypto kitties and dapper as you mention and cheese wizards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=488s"},{"start_seconds":495,"text":"and also doing a ton of R&D and other stuff it was in the company and so that's kind of how the structure is its","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=495s"},{"start_seconds":502,"text":"axioms and dapper labs and hub wrote if ik and a ton of other projects that we've built in the past as well hopefully that gives you an overview of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=502s"},{"start_seconds":510,"text":"of us as a company in our background and where we come from and when you are so small like at seven people what were the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=510s"},{"start_seconds":518,"text":"things that were important for you to focus for you and Arthur to kind of complement that the team that was mostly like technical and designer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=518s"},{"start_seconds":526,"text":"so at that time dealer or CTO and Fabiano we're working on the ERC center in one contract for sure they took at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=526s"},{"start_seconds":534,"text":"sander and mean Arthur we work really well together in understanding and being obsessed by the user I still remember","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=534s"},{"start_seconds":543,"text":"that there's this one story where I had just joined crypto kiddies and I was still learning a lot about blockchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=543s"},{"start_seconds":549,"text":"this is maybe spring 2017 and so I I knew about Bitcoin I didn't know much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=549s"},{"start_seconds":557,"text":"about the technology blockchain and I was listening like two podcasts a day lower chin and a ton of other ones and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=557s"},{"start_seconds":563,"text":"trying to catch up the speed and I remember I went to Fabiano I was like hey can you show me how to breed these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=563s"},{"start_seconds":572,"text":"cats together and he said yeah no problem and then he he sent me websites right my ether wallet and then he sent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=572s"},{"start_seconds":580,"text":"me on slack the ABI for the smart contract for crypto kitty and then he's like yeah I'll paste that in there and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=580s"},{"start_seconds":588,"text":"then I'm gonna send you some rinkeby eath and i don't know what the hell this is and then he said call this function","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=588s"},{"start_seconds":595,"text":"and i called the function and then we waited a bit and we looked at ether scan and then it complete it's right and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=595s"},{"start_seconds":603,"text":"looked at Fabian I was like hey so can I see the cat oh not really but it's there in your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=603s"},{"start_seconds":610,"text":"wallet and that's the one thing that me and Arthur looked at and we're like no way like we could not go to if Waterloo","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=610s"},{"start_seconds":619,"text":"at the hackathon and ask developers to do this like this is this is if we're building a game it has to have a visual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=619s"},{"start_seconds":626,"text":"interface so about two weeks before the hackathon we scrambled to build a website that had like a really crazy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=626s"},{"start_seconds":635,"text":"viral marketing campaign that I I've kind of built mean Arthur built and then not only that we built an alpha version","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=635s"},{"start_seconds":643,"text":"where I was on Rigby and people could see their titties and they could breathe and I think that is the type of thing that mean Arthur bring to the table is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=643s"},{"start_seconds":651,"text":"being obsessed by the user and seeing it from fresh pairs of fresh pair of eyes of like what would people think when they see this and we do this all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=651s"},{"start_seconds":659,"text":"time with and with tapper we always assume the position of I don't know anything about blockchain how does this feel and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=659s"},{"start_seconds":667,"text":"sometimes when we're building highly technical projects like you guys are aware you really get lost in the details","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=667s"},{"start_seconds":675,"text":"and when you zoom out people like normal people are just like what is this this is so confusing right and so that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=675s"},{"start_seconds":682,"text":"that's something that is really important to never lose sight of mm-hmm yep and maybe you can elaborate a little","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=682s"},{"start_seconds":690,"text":"bit on this viral loop that you create us yeah so I like to do weird campaigns as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=690s"},{"start_seconds":699,"text":"you could tell with the floating trees and my background what we did was have a 24 hour livestream of like a kitty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=699s"},{"start_seconds":708,"text":"shelter that was on basically running on the website and people were watching these cats kind of sleep and eat and do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=708s"},{"start_seconds":717,"text":"whatever and on the website there were memes that would show up based on Easter eggs that people would unlock so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=717s"},{"start_seconds":726,"text":"sometimes you got to click 50 times and then a meme would show up sometimes need to wait 6 hours and the meme will show up when the meme shows up whether it's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=726s"},{"start_seconds":734,"text":"spongebob one or Doge you click on it and it reveals a sentence that's encrypted and so people had to kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=734s"},{"start_seconds":744,"text":"go through all of these Easter eggs and piece together all of the phrases and then kind of read what that phrase is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=744s"},{"start_seconds":751,"text":"and send us an email of the answer and the people who did we sent them like t-shirts and some of them we actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=751s"},{"start_seconds":760,"text":"work together in designing a kitty together so there's actually some fancy cats and cookies that are prizes based","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=760s"},{"start_seconds":768,"text":"on the fact that they solve the puzzle early on and also increase the Kitty's website know if you've seen but if you open up the console you will see we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=768s"},{"start_seconds":778,"text":"actually never removed it we wrote the cat a Festo in the console of cryptic kitties and that was kind of like a last-minute addition from our end","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=778s"},{"start_seconds":786,"text":"for me and Arthur really hey wouldn't it be cool all right something I can't spin the console and still to the date to date it's still there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=786s"},{"start_seconds":794,"text":"and so that was written in like maybe summer of 2017 near the time that we were going to launch so that was the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=794s"},{"start_seconds":803,"text":"campaign in crazy website I also at F Waterloo I bought a bunch of pokemon cards and because the thing is there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=803s"},{"start_seconds":811,"text":"lot of swag that's given out to people at conferences and hackathons and it's like piece of paper people throw away they don't treasure it right so also you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=811s"},{"start_seconds":819,"text":"know what people won't throw up throw away pokemon cards because they people have a relationship with them so I bought them and I created these really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=819s"},{"start_seconds":828,"text":"simple like cats were coming to the blockchain with crypto keys that see a website on it and I stuck it on the back of the Pokemon cards and at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=828s"},{"start_seconds":836,"text":"hackathon I just handed it out to all of the people and like hey go try the alpha version of crypto kiddies and people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=836s"},{"start_seconds":844,"text":"like kept still today people tell me like hey I still kept my pokemon card the head crypto Kitty sticker on it and to me like that was way cheaper than","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=844s"},{"start_seconds":852,"text":"printing a bunch of cards and not only that people feel like they have an attachment to it and so all of that together with the crazy website was part","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=852s"},{"start_seconds":861,"text":"of the launch of crypto keys so when you're coming up with that idea like that like something that's a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=861s"},{"start_seconds":868,"text":"crazy do you ever get pushback from other people or do you you know like do you know if there's that are there any ideas that you wanted to do that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=868s"},{"start_seconds":876,"text":"ended up not doing yeah we always mean aren't there always get pushback I remember that when we built that though","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=876s"},{"start_seconds":885,"text":"we kind of secretly over the weekend built that live streaming website and then we show the team and they were just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=885s"},{"start_seconds":891,"text":"like oh it's off-brand its it's like so bright and it's neon it doesn't match it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=891s"},{"start_seconds":900,"text":"and I was like you know what like what are we doing we're doing some crazy here like work put they were making AB","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=900s"},{"start_seconds":909,"text":"digital we're building the world's first watching game we're calling it crypto kitties and like these cats are like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=909s"},{"start_seconds":916,"text":"weird in their genetics like we must kind of embrace its rate and be part of culture rather than like playing it safe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=916s"},{"start_seconds":925,"text":"and having a little very you know basic camp that everyone does right so I think a lot of them were biting their nails and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=925s"},{"start_seconds":933,"text":"they're like okay I mean let's just see how it goes and I think it went well it's people started to see it and a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=933s"},{"start_seconds":941,"text":"more traffic came and so they're like you know okay I guess it kind of work so there's always like internal like fear","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=941s"},{"start_seconds":950,"text":"of like people not receiving it well externally I think that people the only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=950s"},{"start_seconds":957,"text":"call one of the the common feedback that we got from this website was like hey can we donate crypto to help these cats in the shelter I mean we actually added","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=957s"},{"start_seconds":966,"text":"a address link where people send money or said if - and then we sent it in US","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=966s"},{"start_seconds":972,"text":"dollars to the shelter so that was the one thing that people ask for because they wanted to help the cats and they were watching the cats but all in all I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=972s"},{"start_seconds":982,"text":"mean it was well well received because at that time it was like the ICO boom right and so every every week everyone's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=982s"},{"start_seconds":989,"text":"I see doing the websites look the same it's always like those interconnected nets and like that and and like some crazy you know fancy words and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=989s"},{"start_seconds":999,"text":"on the website but when they looked at ours like what the hell is going on I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=999s"},{"start_seconds":1005,"text":"still remember I was DMing press like Lauren and everybody on Twitter and like hey Kathir Kumu blockchain and then they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1005s"},{"start_seconds":1014,"text":"were just like what are you talking about and like you're like are you high or so 10 there's like they just ignored","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1014s"},{"start_seconds":1021,"text":"me they never took it seriously and the only person who actually wrote the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1021s"},{"start_seconds":1028,"text":"article for Kirklees was June from Coyne dusk at that time he was at courts but I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1028s"},{"start_seconds":1036,"text":"had to what happened was like cryptic kitties the transaction volumes started to climb more and more a lot more people started to play it and I kept sending","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1036s"},{"start_seconds":1045,"text":"him screenshots of the like every 5% increase of like the total transactions and I think when it got to like 15","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1045s"},{"start_seconds":1054,"text":"percent of the total if you're in network he was like fine I'll write about it and he wrote the first article and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1054s"},{"start_seconds":1061,"text":"I wrote the next one and then everything everything came after that but yeah there was a very interesting story with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1061s"},{"start_seconds":1069,"text":"Casey Newton he was a reporter from The Verge I sent him like a cold email with the headline catcher comes in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1069s"},{"start_seconds":1077,"text":"blockchain and the funny thing is a key screen shot at that subject line and he tweeted it and he said I'm going back to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1077s"},{"start_seconds":1084,"text":"bed and I saw his tweet and I was like kind of like man this guy is missing out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1084s"},{"start_seconds":1092,"text":"and after we've been covered by like vice BBC and box I tweeted back to him","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1092s"},{"start_seconds":1099,"text":"like hey you know what do you think you think like cats a gots a common blockchain and he didn't respond but I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1099s"},{"start_seconds":1108,"text":"think that it would have been a great opportunity for him if he looked into it a little bit more so these are really funny stories of the early days of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1108s"},{"start_seconds":1116,"text":"cryptic kitties right that's super fun yeah I'm always interested in you know cuz if you look at anything that was successful in hindsight it seems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1116s"},{"start_seconds":1125,"text":"inevitable that it was gonna succeed but it's so interesting to hear about the uncertainty of even the marketing campaign yeah and I find that really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1125s"},{"start_seconds":1133,"text":"interesting yeah marketing campaigns are yeah they're they're a beast and you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1133s"},{"start_seconds":1142,"text":"have to draw from a lot of sources you can't be looking at people within the space so to say that much otherwise you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1142s"},{"start_seconds":1151,"text":"just do what they're doing internally when I spend time thinking about like a launch strategy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1151s"},{"start_seconds":1159,"text":"I usually centered it around like a rap album so the four for crypto kitties the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1159s"},{"start_seconds":1167,"text":"inspiration of the list launch was the wu-tang clan and I kind of had a full","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1167s"},{"start_seconds":1174,"text":"story about it in a slide deck to the team of like what what we're going to do what is the emotion that we want to invoke and then with the Cheeseman","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1174s"},{"start_seconds":1183,"text":"wizard launch in during New York blockchain week this this year the focus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1183s"},{"start_seconds":1190,"text":"of it was around the NAS and since we were going to new I felt like it was fitting so that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1190s"},{"start_seconds":1198,"text":"kind of been my process of centering around rap album and getting really deep in that and and correlating it to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1198s"},{"start_seconds":1206,"text":"craziness that we like to invoke into people so why don't you tell me a little bit about the she's Wizards lunch what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1206s"},{"start_seconds":1213,"text":"was that like yeah Xochitl so New York blockchain week I've got to admit and I'll be honest it was a it was the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1213s"},{"start_seconds":1223,"text":"craziest thing that we've done as a team like we launched dapper wallet at that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1223s"},{"start_seconds":1230,"text":"time we launched cheese wizards there and I did another side project within the Apple labs that was digital fashion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1230s"},{"start_seconds":1238,"text":"it was on this the first the world's first digital dress on the blockchain called iridescent we saw that on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1238s"},{"start_seconds":1246,"text":"serial summit 495 Hunter it's close to 10,000 and so we did we lost three things at once at the same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1246s"},{"start_seconds":1255,"text":"time we attended all of the conferences and we spoke at all of the conference's and even the panel's and not only that we did some strategic partnerships with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1255s"},{"start_seconds":1264,"text":"other the get coin in a few other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1264s"},{"start_seconds":1270,"text":"projects at these conferences and not only that we organize their own Meetup that had other partners involved and to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1270s"},{"start_seconds":1279,"text":"top that off we sponsored East New York so we were a sponsor and we were helping","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1279s"},{"start_seconds":1285,"text":"people with using the adapter test net and using it for the hackathon so it was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1285s"},{"start_seconds":1294,"text":"just the most intense period of of my life and I think the teams as well a lot of runningback and for the cheese was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1294s"},{"start_seconds":1302,"text":"our hackathon or sorry the cheese wizard launch the the campaign was a it's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1302s"},{"start_seconds":1311,"text":"little bit more teams than cryptic you tease but one of the key points of it was adding cheese to our Twitter names which you may still see with a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1311s"},{"start_seconds":1319,"text":"the dapper louse employees but not only that our investors and not and also influencers in the space start we asked them all to put a cheese emoji in their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1319s"},{"start_seconds":1328,"text":"Twitter name to kind of build up the like what a wise is why is there cheese here like what is the connection the cheese wizard website","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1328s"},{"start_seconds":1337,"text":"was really cool and it displayed like it was very interactive as you as you've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1337s"},{"start_seconds":1343,"text":"seen and what we also did was I another thing that I do is every time I travel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1343s"},{"start_seconds":1351,"text":"to speak at a conference in a region I designed a new swag or new merch for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1351s"},{"start_seconds":1358,"text":"just the team members to wear so I designed these very orange cheese wizard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1358s"},{"start_seconds":1364,"text":"jackets that's a team wore and it has I like to play on like street culture so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1364s"},{"start_seconds":1371,"text":"I'm sure maybe you guys know antisocial social club so in the back it's a cheese","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1371s"},{"start_seconds":1379,"text":"wizard social club and so I like to kind of remix these things because people from afar they'll see like a social club","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1379s"},{"start_seconds":1386,"text":"and it's the same exact font but then they see a new thing which is cheese wizard so it's all about kind of incepting these ideas into people's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1386s"},{"start_seconds":1394,"text":"vision and and in baits and when I went to Shanghai last year just speak at China joy I design like a pink hoodie","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1394s"},{"start_seconds":1403,"text":"that's like blinding your eyes and on the main stage like it just really differentiates rate because everyone's wearing like t-shirt and it says like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1403s"},{"start_seconds":1411,"text":"whatever name your company but there's so much more great things you could do in the clothing that you wear and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1411s"},{"start_seconds":1420,"text":"think the people who really took it to the next level and I was actually really impressed by it was Bank J a means team","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1420s"},{"start_seconds":1427,"text":"at one of the conference's they the whole team shaved their head or whatever and they dyed it to pink or some of them shave their head but this the girls just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1427s"},{"start_seconds":1436,"text":"all dyed it bright pink and I was like wow that that is commitment but that's kind of the craziness that we were in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1436s"},{"start_seconds":1443,"text":"right so yeah cheese wizards we did presentations we did a lot of teasers we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1443s"},{"start_seconds":1449,"text":"actually we we kind of revealed some of the pictures of the wizards in a very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1449s"},{"start_seconds":1457,"text":"closed-door setting but what we kind of expected it to be shared or leaked and so that was kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1457s"},{"start_seconds":1466,"text":"the strategy for it and at that time now like it's different from from cryptokeys where we started from zero right now we're at a point where we have the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1466s"},{"start_seconds":1475,"text":"cryptic kitties the email basis like in the hundreds of thousands so we have a baseline of distribution and so we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1475s"},{"start_seconds":1482,"text":"obviously will kind of build the campaign around that and at the events we spoke to it and more the clothes and the cheese so that was kind of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1482s"},{"start_seconds":1490,"text":"cheese wizard launch and going forward so like what's that for you're just for you kind of going forward to an extent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1490s"},{"start_seconds":1498,"text":"you can share so dapper Labs has some two big initiatives the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1498s"},{"start_seconds":1505,"text":"initiatives is forming a gaming studio right now in total Sapir loss is about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1505s"},{"start_seconds":1512,"text":"110 team members and we're 98% based in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1512s"},{"start_seconds":1520,"text":"Vancouver we have a few team members in New York and in Los Angeles and some in Europe but not too many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1520s"},{"start_seconds":1528,"text":"and we're really diverse as well in total I think we speak over like 22 languages and we come from like 20","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1528s"},{"start_seconds":1536,"text":"countries so it's a lot of people who the good thing about Canada is that immigration and having people come to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1536s"},{"start_seconds":1544,"text":"and move to Canada and live here is is much easier than in the States as you guys know there's a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1544s"},{"start_seconds":1551,"text":"challenges for tech employees in the US and makes them have to I guess move up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1551s"},{"start_seconds":1558,"text":"to Vancouver or something like that so 110 team members so about like 50% or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1558s"},{"start_seconds":1565,"text":"60% is in the gaming studio and we have some of the best game designers from like EVE Online from Zynga from Disney","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1565s"},{"start_seconds":1573,"text":"from Glu Mobile we also have the lead producer of FIFA who's working on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1573s"},{"start_seconds":1581,"text":"NBA game and so the gaming studio the whole point of it is to build their own IP like cheese wizards in crypto kitties","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1581s"},{"start_seconds":1590,"text":"but as you now are aware of working on the NBA game for 2020 it's really going to be a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1590s"},{"start_seconds":1597,"text":"really big effort from us and we're also in discussions or it's like Hollywood studios music labels","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1597s"},{"start_seconds":1604,"text":"gaming companies eSports teams and celebrities and was and we're gonna continue to build consumer blockchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1604s"},{"start_seconds":1613,"text":"experiences on that side the second side of the company is around technology and that's where diapers hits and also our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1613s"},{"start_seconds":1621,"text":"R&D team the point of I mean our route is in building technology products so that's kind of where we're most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1621s"},{"start_seconds":1628,"text":"comfortable with but since now we've kind of gotten used to doing two things at once and all that side we're working","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1628s"},{"start_seconds":1635,"text":"on tapper as you know and improving that Android Android we're doing a lot of tests on the Android app and yeah so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1635s"},{"start_seconds":1645,"text":"we're streamlining that and our d-dave looked into it's led by our CTO and they've done tons of like out of all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1645s"},{"start_seconds":1654,"text":"years worth of like looking into other protocols and scale scaling and all these other things because you need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1654s"},{"start_seconds":1661,"text":"kind of explore all those ankles so that's kind of how dapper Labs is set up currently I spend most of my time in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1661s"},{"start_seconds":1669,"text":"studio site sometimes I dip my toes into dapper and the R&D team I barely dip a toe there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1669s"},{"start_seconds":1676,"text":"yeah and did you have to also expand your YouTube I guess it seems like you guys like really grew up like since like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1676s"},{"start_seconds":1685,"text":"you started with seven people now you're like over 100 what about yourself do you have like a gross team as well or yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1685s"},{"start_seconds":1693,"text":"so we yeah we were 70 to 110 yes we hired a lot and not only that we brought","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1693s"},{"start_seconds":1700,"text":"on a lot of engineers and designers from axioms n to come on board to dapper lives so that helped a lot because a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1700s"},{"start_seconds":1709,"text":"of people already knew each other it's not like completely new culture and for the growth of marketing team that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1709s"},{"start_seconds":1717,"text":"definitely expanded we have now in total let me see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1717s"},{"start_seconds":1724,"text":"ten in total before it was like maybe two or three so it has grown","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1724s"},{"start_seconds":1732,"text":"significantly and we have like marketing managers who now for me I spent most of my time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1732s"},{"start_seconds":1739,"text":"trying to solve the most critical problems for the company and right now cheese wizards is getting ready for its","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1739s"},{"start_seconds":1748,"text":"the tournament that's coming so I'm spending a lot of my time on cheese wizards but we have a marketing manager","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1748s"},{"start_seconds":1755,"text":"that's managing cryptic kitties and then also dapper and then we have a marketing manager for NBA and so that's kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1755s"},{"start_seconds":1765,"text":"how its structured currently and I also had a question about composability because remember one like cryptic ideas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1765s"},{"start_seconds":1772,"text":"started bunch of people started like building other contracts on top of it right kiti burski key cards things like that and so on with Wizards I know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1772s"},{"start_seconds":1782,"text":"you're doing like hackathon right now is I do so there's some like experimentation there do you see like a lot of engagement from developer community like willing to kind of build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1782s"},{"start_seconds":1789,"text":"things on top or yeah so just for clarification the hackathon we're doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1789s"},{"start_seconds":1797,"text":"with coin list and I do is doing their own separate one but it's just so that we both announced at the same time and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1797s"},{"start_seconds":1805,"text":"then the kind of people thought it was mixed in my idea was mostly focus from working with protocols and in feroz's specifically to cheese wizards so far we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1805s"},{"start_seconds":1815,"text":"have over like 300 330 registered developers and there is more than 20","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1815s"},{"start_seconds":1824,"text":"projects being worked on as far as we're aware and there's a lot of excitement um you know one of the things when we build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1824s"},{"start_seconds":1832,"text":"triptych is we realize like hey people like wanted to start to build tools on top of cryptic cities or build gaming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1832s"},{"start_seconds":1840,"text":"experiences on top of it in the beginning we were just like okay like this is kind of cool but then we started to realize like you know this is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1840s"},{"start_seconds":1848,"text":"this is the this was what make blockchain games different rate blocking games are open ecosystem where people could build and remix","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1848s"},{"start_seconds":1857,"text":"and compose you know bring a kitty into a different space and involved it etc and we called that the kitty verse and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1857s"},{"start_seconds":1866,"text":"that was amazing it was really our first try and we had to ground and we flew some of the developers in and spent time with them and some of them we've hired","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1866s"},{"start_seconds":1875,"text":"and brought on board so we learned a ton from this whole extensibility aspect of boxing games it helped us further further our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1875s"},{"start_seconds":1884,"text":"thinking about what blotching games are in compared to normal games that exists like mobile games or PC games and with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1884s"},{"start_seconds":1893,"text":"cheese wizards since the whole concept the cheese wizard is a battle royale game on the blockchain there's a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1893s"},{"start_seconds":1902,"text":"complicated functions and logic that is embedded in the smart contract the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1902s"},{"start_seconds":1909,"text":"coolest thing about cheese Wizards is that it has the ability for anyone around the world to organize a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1909s"},{"start_seconds":1916,"text":"decentralized tournament by basically forking the contract and putting a new front end or a new back end or putting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1916s"},{"start_seconds":1924,"text":"its Chinese translation or Russian translations and then having your own cheese's or tournament where people who own cheese wizard entities can buy in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1924s"},{"start_seconds":1933,"text":"and participate and there's never been a game that has been thinking about tournaments in that aspect of let's just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1933s"},{"start_seconds":1941,"text":"give the power to the people right and so that's that's why cheese was very interesting and the whole premise of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1941s"},{"start_seconds":1948,"text":"doing this hackathon with coinless is to engage the the broader developer community to build something that they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1948s"},{"start_seconds":1955,"text":"could actually see and touch there's a lot of protocol hackathons where it's like hey you know build this on cosmos so build this on polkadot or build on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1955s"},{"start_seconds":1963,"text":"near write but there are people who also want to just build fun things that people can see and play with and has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1963s"},{"start_seconds":1972,"text":"usability so we've seen a lot of good reception on that and we hope that more what I call blockchain native games will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1972s"},{"start_seconds":1981,"text":"will come up and a lot more people will participate in the ecosystem you know and in terms of geographies do you see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1981s"},{"start_seconds":1990,"text":"particular it's of geographies like being the most early adopters in terms of gaming for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1990s"},{"start_seconds":1996,"text":"cheese wizards yeah so as if most of our our network in games it it is us is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=1996s"},{"start_seconds":2005,"text":"quite dominant unfortunately for cheese wizards Canadians cannot play it because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2005s"},{"start_seconds":2013,"text":"of you know the regulations that that are there even in the states there are a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2013s"},{"start_seconds":2019,"text":"few stay few US states that don't allow this and it's all written in the the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2019s"},{"start_seconds":2026,"text":"details on the website but yeah I think US is the primary one we have also a strong base in Europe one of the top","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2026s"},{"start_seconds":2035,"text":"players if Kritika DS his player name is kitten mittens he's based in the Scandinavian area so he's a hardcore","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2035s"},{"start_seconds":2045,"text":"like blockchain game player so we do have a mix of Europe European and for cryptically is just the game in general","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2045s"},{"start_seconds":2053,"text":"we we had played we have a community in in China and and players in Japan and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2053s"},{"start_seconds":2061,"text":"Korea although not as large as North America there are still a lot of people who enjoy the game there I wanted to ask","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2061s"},{"start_seconds":2070,"text":"another question which is we've been talking about all of these successes I was wondering if you wanted to share any sort of war stories about a mistake that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2070s"},{"start_seconds":2079,"text":"you made or something that you learned that you had to recover from and what you learned from it of course if you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2079s"},{"start_seconds":2087,"text":"willing right so I learned a really important lesson when cryptic kitties","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2087s"},{"start_seconds":2096,"text":"was growing really fast in the beginning I was still new to the concept of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2096s"},{"start_seconds":2104,"text":"consensus and mining etc and at one point the network was so cloth and I was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2104s"},{"start_seconds":2111,"text":"like oh why don't we just talk to the miners like just call him up you know like pick up the phone and be like hey can you prioritize our transactions and so I talked to my friend his name","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2111s"},{"start_seconds":2120,"text":"Spencer and he worked at f2 pool which is all large largest mining pools and I talked to him the hey is there any way that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2120s"},{"start_seconds":2129,"text":"could kind of like just mind that the the cryptic kiddies transactions first or something like just help it kind of decrease the load and he's like no we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2129s"},{"start_seconds":2138,"text":"can't really do that it's like you know this is just a network we cannot do anything about it and I was like what do you mean man like isn't it like you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2138s"},{"start_seconds":2146,"text":"Google Google cloud platform like or Amazon Webster's like just increasing bump it up and that was a lesson that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2146s"},{"start_seconds":2153,"text":"learned as a team wow we're dealing with something that's entirely different there was also another thing about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2153s"},{"start_seconds":2160,"text":"cryptic duties that we learned which is um when you breed the kitties or when you give birth to the kitties there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2160s"},{"start_seconds":2167,"text":"fee that fee is meant to incentivize people to run birther or Auto birders so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2167s"},{"start_seconds":2175,"text":"just like people having GPUs to mind crypto people could have in the early day set up GPU to give birth to kitties","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2175s"},{"start_seconds":2184,"text":"in a decentralized way and at one point the fee we increased it so it had extra","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2184s"},{"start_seconds":2191,"text":"incentives for people around the world to help give birth to kitties because these kitties were stuck in labor for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2191s"},{"start_seconds":2198,"text":"many many many hours very delayed and at one point the user stopped started to tell us that hey the fees so expensive I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2198s"},{"start_seconds":2207,"text":"could not even I don't even want to breed a kitty anymore and so trying to balance that we decreased it and essentially all of the auto brothers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2207s"},{"start_seconds":2215,"text":"shut down except our own and essentially we left us on giving birth to kitties as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2215s"},{"start_seconds":2223,"text":"fast as we can in her office overnight and we burnt I think like a few tens of thousands of dollars overnight because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2223s"},{"start_seconds":2232,"text":"we were paying out of pocket to give birth to all of the kitties around the world and so one thing that we learn is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2232s"},{"start_seconds":2240,"text":"like kind of when we build these mechanisms that is on the smart contract and we want to have these kind of crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2240s"},{"start_seconds":2247,"text":"economics work especially with cheese wizards we think more carefully now of how to balance these things now we can't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2247s"},{"start_seconds":2254,"text":"expect everything there's always gonna be crazy education but we're more cautious now and not only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2254s"},{"start_seconds":2261,"text":"that we always go through auditing a third-party auditing for our spawn contracts and if you guys I mean if you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2261s"},{"start_seconds":2270,"text":"guys are ever curious we've already gotten some great feedback on the cheese with our smart contracts in how saw that they are and how unique they are and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2270s"},{"start_seconds":2279,"text":"compared to other ones that are out there a lot of people as you know with cryptic Katie's date just cloned the cryptic Kitty's contract and then kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2279s"},{"start_seconds":2286,"text":"of added a little bit of extra things and we we love that I think that's great that's the point that's the point of being open source and with the cheese","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2286s"},{"start_seconds":2294,"text":"wizards I think it will set a new standard in this new type of game and people will definitely clone it and use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2294s"},{"start_seconds":2301,"text":"it as an example so that's kind of what we've learned through all this entire","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2301s"},{"start_seconds":2306,"text":"process and and how do you think you know this this open source thing of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2306s"},{"start_seconds":2314,"text":"people working it and cloning it do you think that's going to increase in the future I mean how do you think the industry will evolve around you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2314s"},{"start_seconds":2322,"text":"just crypto gaming what are your predictions for the future of crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2322s"},{"start_seconds":2328,"text":"gaming yeah so I think 2020 is going to be a big splash for and a big test for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2328s"},{"start_seconds":2338,"text":"mainstream adoption as far as I'm aware NBA is going to be like the biggest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2338s"},{"start_seconds":2347,"text":"hypothesis that we're going to test up until now what we've done is you know kind of build the community within the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2347s"},{"start_seconds":2356,"text":"crypto industry and go to these conferences and you know not only that work with all the blockchain games","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2356s"},{"start_seconds":2363,"text":"around the world and have extensibility across these ecosystem well what we've kind of realized now that we're entering","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2363s"},{"start_seconds":2371,"text":"into q4 is that no matter how many cross-pollination either from protocol","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2371s"},{"start_seconds":2379,"text":"levels or many protocols or on the level of blockchain games or even with gaps like 0x et cetera there's just not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2379s"},{"start_seconds":2388,"text":"enough people in the PI no matter what at this point and it's a hard reality and we have we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2388s"},{"start_seconds":2395,"text":"see the reality because we directly receive players who play the gates who spend the money right and so for us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2395s"},{"start_seconds":2403,"text":"we're going to try a different approach in 2020 where we go from above and work","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2403s"},{"start_seconds":2409,"text":"within IP and distribute through the NBA Network and even go into the games and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2409s"},{"start_seconds":2418,"text":"engage the audience and really learn what what makes the mainstream audience tick around blockchain related","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2418s"},{"start_seconds":2426,"text":"collectables so that's going to be a big test for us and right now as I said like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2426s"},{"start_seconds":2435,"text":"blockchain native games I think that there is kind of like a fork that's happening it's not a bad thing I think there's just two ways of potentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2435s"},{"start_seconds":2443,"text":"doing something and the way that I think about blocking native games is like think about when the iPhone was created right a lot of people who were building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2443s"},{"start_seconds":2452,"text":"flash games on the web tried to kind of importer and import it into the iPhone or to convert it into an amiable game","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2452s"},{"start_seconds":2461,"text":"but it just didn't really work right people who recognize that the iPhone had in a cellar ometer it had touchscreen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2461s"},{"start_seconds":2468,"text":"and had these camera features those are the companies that build Angry Birds or supercell who built clash of clans and candy crush is because they realized","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2468s"},{"start_seconds":2477,"text":"that hey we should build a game around this device and maximize the potential of it and those have become billions of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2477s"},{"start_seconds":2484,"text":"dollar company right and so for us when when we're building blocks in native games which will continue to do so in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2484s"},{"start_seconds":2491,"text":"the future is looking at the blockchain as it is and finding the reasons that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2491s"},{"start_seconds":2498,"text":"are far beyond just entities that have the game mechanic the game logic on the blockchain and decentralized and making","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2498s"},{"start_seconds":2506,"text":"that part of the experience right now we see other companies who are just building normal games and then somewhere","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2506s"},{"start_seconds":2514,"text":"in the menus in the settings you could convert your items or heroes into an n of T and that's pretty much if for us it's like that's kind of like a game","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2514s"},{"start_seconds":2522,"text":"with the blockchain plug in and it serves a interesting I mean it serves a purpose and maybe these are the games that will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2522s"},{"start_seconds":2529,"text":"get into the PlayStation Store or the Xbox store and have distribution but it's so little as a 10% blockchain it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2529s"},{"start_seconds":2537,"text":"doesn't even really affect anything right so I think that you know we'll connect we're gonna continue to build blockchain native games where we see it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2537s"},{"start_seconds":2546,"text":"as it is and we maximize the potential of that cool and also when you think about that MDA launch do you think it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2546s"},{"start_seconds":2553,"text":"will be a big test for like usability said oh it's like onboarding flow and how to make walking invisible for people as mass-market bill will join for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2553s"},{"start_seconds":2561,"text":"first time in a big way or is it will be a more test of luck scalability or is it something entirely different yeah it's gonna be both to be honest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2561s"},{"start_seconds":2570,"text":"it's going to be like we've already started you know mapping doing a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2570s"},{"start_seconds":2577,"text":"user testing with NBA fans and we've one of the insight that actually we had a meeting yesterday about it was that true","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2577s"},{"start_seconds":2586,"text":"ownership or true whatever you want to call it that is related you know the words that were used to to the NBA fans","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2586s"},{"start_seconds":2595,"text":"who some of them actually even own Bitcoin they told us like I don't know what the hell true ownership is or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2595s"},{"start_seconds":2603,"text":"digital ownership like what do you mean by that and I think we part of us already know that but it's it's like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2603s"},{"start_seconds":2610,"text":"it's something that you keep hearing and it's like okay well I guess we can not use true ownership or digital ownership on the website people don't care about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2610s"},{"start_seconds":2618,"text":"these things and so we're learning a ton and of course part of that is working with the dapper team to even make the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2618s"},{"start_seconds":2626,"text":"flow even better for for the NBA fans and then on top of that like scalability","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2626s"},{"start_seconds":2632,"text":"unarmed each side led by dieter kind of looking into how we could really scale","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2632s"},{"start_seconds":2639,"text":"this up so yeah that is definitely on the horizon well we're just about out of time but I wanted to finish with a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2639s"},{"start_seconds":2648,"text":"question I asked everybody which is do you have any advice for people who are starting blockchain companies now or maybe they're creating a watching game","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2648s"},{"start_seconds":2656,"text":"or they're just maybe playing with the idea creating a blockchain project yeah what would your advice be for them people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2656s"},{"start_seconds":2665,"text":"just starting out you guys is hard as it's really difficult building a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2665s"},{"start_seconds":2674,"text":"decentralized app building smart contract should not be taken lightly the amount of the analogy that I have is is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2674s"},{"start_seconds":2683,"text":"similar to sending a satellite into space right you you are practically like SpaceX right so the the chances of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2683s"},{"start_seconds":2691,"text":"failure are really high and just like how you know there's no people don't go up into space and grab faulty satellites","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2691s"},{"start_seconds":2699,"text":"down and bring it down the recycle it just stays up there in the atmosphere so whenever you build a decentralized app","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2699s"},{"start_seconds":2707,"text":"if you have any intention of longevity of it or the potential of not having millions or hundreds and millions of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2707s"},{"start_seconds":2716,"text":"dollars being stolen you have to kind of be very careful and it's kind of counter to agile engineering development and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2716s"},{"start_seconds":2724,"text":"everything that you've learned in Silicon Valley really build things break things he sets or move fast in in this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2724s"},{"start_seconds":2733,"text":"one aspect it's all about perfection and it's all about being very thorough and having a different mindsets everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2733s"},{"start_seconds":2740,"text":"else whether it's the front end or the back end yeah go crazy but really spend time and the effort in making sure the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2740s"},{"start_seconds":2747,"text":"smart contracts are solid and if they are solid you know you're that's how you're gonna make your name right that's how you're going to really contribute to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2747s"},{"start_seconds":2756,"text":"the space because people need high quality code in order to fork or to clone and use that as an example or a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2756s"},{"start_seconds":2763,"text":"baseline for higher quality projects so it's all kind of interconnected and you know keep at it and we're always our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2763s"},{"start_seconds":2771,"text":"doors is always open to to help developers or around the world if they have any questions and a lot of this is you know just like you guys it's all new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2771s"},{"start_seconds":2780,"text":"right and we're all just exploring and there's so much to learn and so much to share cool well thanks very much many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2780s"},{"start_seconds":2787,"text":"this has been really interesting well thank you so much Peter and Sasha really appreciated the the chat today and yeah let's keep in touch oh thank","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2787s"},{"start_seconds":2796,"text":"you for your time no problem take care","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk&t=2796s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8XDdpw2Pk","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/Ww8XDdpw2Pk"}