{"id":"NzU8B58HkwI","title":"Protocol Working Group Meeting – November 21, 2022","description":"The second NEAR Protocol Working Group Meeting! \n\nToday the working group discussed NEP-366, Meta Transactions. The working group decided to delay the vote by 72 hours for the author to address concerns that were raised during the call.\n \nChapters:\n00:20 Agenda\n01:00 Update on Developer Governance and the NEP process\n05:34 Introductions\n09:00 NEP-366 Discussion\n16:51 NEP-366 Concerns\n28:58 NEP-366 Voting Indications\n45:50 NEP-366 Decision: Delay Vote\n47:50 Getting Involved \n\n👉 Review the NEP from today's call\nNEP-366:  https://github.com/near/NEPs/pull/366\n\nℹ️ Learn about Developer Governance:\nWebsite: https://neardevgov.org\nTwitter:   / neardevgov  \nNEP Process:  https://github.com/near/NEPs/blob/mas...\n\n💬 Join the Protocol Community Group:\nTelegram: https://t.me/NEAR_Protocol_Community_...\n\nJoin NEAR's community:\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nReddit:   / nearprotocol  \nDiscord: https://near.chat/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nGitHub: https://github.com/near  https://github.com/nearprotocol\nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nCreate a wallet: https://wallet.near.org/create\nApps on NEAR: https://awesomenear.com/\nLearn to Build On NEAR: https://www.near.university/\nGrants & Funding: https://near.org/grants/\n#Blockchain #FutureisNEAR #NEAR #nearprotocol\n#nft #dao","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2022-11-21T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/NzU8B58HkwI/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"hello everyone and Welcome to our second protocol working group meeting my name is Ori and I'm a technical program manager from Pagoda and I'm very excited to uh kick off this script for the second time and discuss the protocol uh proposal today so just to go over the agenda first I will give a quick overview on developer governance which includes our net process and working groups next we'll do some brief introductions as we have a few panelists joining us today then we'll get into the main discussion which is nep366 meta transactions and then we will open it up to q a and lastly we'll talk about next steps and how you can get involved in developer governance and if at any time you have questions feel free to drop them in the Q a button on the screen or in the chat and we'll we'll try to get to them if they're relevant or wait until the end all right so let's start with a little bit of background on developer governance so over the last few months we've been engaging with the community over this idea of developer governance which is about decentralizing nearest development and empowering anyone to contribute to evolving the ecosystem and we've been bucketing developer governance into three stages ideas voting and implementation and I just wanted to quickly highlight them to help contextualize our meeting today so first ideas anyone can submit an idea for improving the protocol or standards and it starts with the community from Individual Builders and developers to groups and there have been several Community groups that have self-organized around various topics of interest you know such as zero knowledge wallet standards and others and many of them have already been meeting regularly they've started telegram channels to communicate and you're welcome to join any of these Community groups or to start one yourself you can learn more on neo.org developer governance and once you have an idea you can submit it through a nap so a nap and your enhancement proposal enables anyone to submit a proposal and this is similar to there's a similar process to other prominent open source projects like rust and as we've been getting many net submissions it's been really exciting to see the the contribution from the community but it also made us realize that we needed a way to move them forward to review them to make decisions and determine the next steps so that they're not just sitting indefinitely so this is where the second voting stage comes in which involves developer working groups and the working groups really is a way to help operationalize the review of neps and the idea is to have multiple working groups each one focusing on a specific ecosystem need and to have subject matter experts in that group that can help create focus and enable us to move faster and we've already kicked off the first three working groups to help boost up the process so protocol working group contract standards working group and wallet standards and as I mentioned earlier we're here to iterate today on the protocol working group and putting these groups into practice is very much a gradual approach and requires flexibility as we learn what works and what doesn't but as we continue to iterate we really want to introduce more groups and empower the community to to run them so just to highlight the roles that are involved in the net process there are four key ones first the author or or the champion this is the person who writes the proposal and and moves It Forward presents it to the working group then there's the moderator this is the person who facilitates the process and helps validate that the proposal meets the net guidelines and that everything is is moving along the reviewer subject matter expert is a person who gets assigned to assess the technical feasibility of the nap and then lastly the approver working group members that's a group that makes the the ultimate decision and just to help illustrate the process so basically we have three stages draft review and voting and two outcomes approved and rejected and all of the roles mentioned before helped move the net through these stages and towards the outcome and most of this activity happens asynchronously on the nap itself but when we do get to the voting stage each working group has a public meeting to discuss the nap with the author and to formalize the decision which is exactly what we are doing here today so we will execute this process and look at the proposal that has been in the review stage and have the author present it and then go into the voting but before we jump into that part I also want to just talk about what happens when Nets get approved so that leads us to the third implementation stage and we're currently working on an overarching Dao which will be responsible for funding distribution from the near foundation and other orgs and really the idea is that anyone can volunteer to propose to implement an agreed proposal for free or even for a compensation and we'll be sharing more information on that soon on the developer governance website so just to put it all together we have the community we submit ideas using apps working groups which vote on those naps and helped to move them forward and implementers who help Implement nips for the benefit of the entire community so with that overview I'd like to jump into the introductions and I would like to welcome the working group members and introduce them first so go in I'll hand it over to you hey everyone I'm bull uh head of protocol Pagoda uh yeah very excited to be here and discussing the meta transaction proposal uh so what was the sequence I think I don't see Marcelo so let's skip to Marcin hi I'm arson I'm also from Pagoda and super excited to see new very exciting additions uh coming to New cool hi I'm Alex keoki I'm a ecosystem member um been involved in uh what three for a few years used to work at an exchange and a few other open source ecosystems have more of a product background than a developer background so we'll be helping provide some feedback from that lens uh hi everyone Marcelo here it was hard to speak before uh before being a panelist uh I'm working with Aurora and uh happy to discuss my transactions today finally yeah awesome glad you all are here all right next I would like to introduce the moderators in the process so max hey everyone um butterfly on the wall don't mind me um I I hope orian Vlad Roloff will do most of the work here for me today um yeah and I'm just I don't know what am I doing here um making sure that the Quorum is observed hey everybody I'm Vlad I'm also on the moderator's side of things uh helping Ori with the technical side of Ryan Knapps through and today we'll just keep an eye on the technical aspects of the discussion so keep keep it straight let's not jump into Holy Wars um awesome hi again I'm Ori and yes I also play a moderator role in the process and very excited to keep on moving so all right now super super exciting we have the net author and champions who worked on meta transactions so I'd like to introduce Ilia hey everyone uh Ilya um yeah originated yeah this is something we've probably discussed very early on but uh never actually designed the protocol and so it was exciting kind of to actually start the work and then see Igor and Alexander to pick it up actually get it hopefully the collection Igor uh snap I am just a developer in our product so that's all I'm near Ukraine member rust developer and X city of the Central Bank developer of new sense stable coin smart contract helped Igor in all discussions with this snap trying to push it forward thank you awesome yeah and that's actually a perfect segue to the main discussion which is the net itself so yeah I'd like to invite you back again Alexander to provide an overview of the nap and why you believe it is important and really any any author or Champion who's worked on that is welcome to to speak but uh yeah Alexander I will hand it over to you to start yeah thank you or and my plan is to share background a little bit and give just a quick refresh about meta transactions so I'd like to start with a little background Ilya is an original creator of the nap and which was published in June 2022 the nap had received initial review at that time we in the Central Bank thought about business case like how could we enable people with the lack of native near coin to be able to transfer a stable coin and a EU sends stablecoin in particular and any fungible token in general like use the T use the C so that was our specific use case so while meta transactions enable even more use cases like the ability to interact with any smart contract having no near coins at all to pay gas and so we analyzed a few options mostly workarounds and how could it be download that fundamental support by near blockchain and we arrived at the conclusion uh that it's just not possible to implement any work around like without giving up security and usability due to lack of trust between all bodies and at that time we found this snap nap of meta transactions and decided to contribute to the net development because like we thought that it is a proper fundamental way to move forward um like it allows it gives an ability to interact with any smart contract having no near coins at all to pay gas and like um so yeah um on the next slide uh the next slide demonstrates we have this pull request with the draft implementation which is actually on the final stage um and there is diagram with a lot of stuff is going on there and uh yeah this slide is just to demonstrate that it's not just an app but we also have a draft implementation which is I I personally believe it is cool uh so and the diagram is quite complicated that's why I created more simple diagrams on the next slide so you can go forward so uh there is an oversimplified promo statement what happens if user doesn't have native near coin such users kind of fully limited the user is not able to do anything the user is just doomed to find anybody to get a little bit of native money to you know to continue its uh own stuff its own work and on the set and on the next slide uh Heaven meta transactions the user is more happy right and we introduce a native support uh from near blockchain and with additional enablement with special entities which is called which called layers so the problem many problems when different use cases could be solved the user initiates a matters transaction while relayer pays for gas so fund dimensional limited transaction is a protocol feature when a third party can pay gas for another body and that's it and some Corner cases and security concerns are to be addressed by relayer implementation that's all from my side thank you awesome thank you Alexander is there any does any other author or Champion want to add anything at this point before we move to the actual discussion of the the concerns or benefits and decision I can add more context on kind of the use cases right the kind of high level we always been trying to figure out how to hide blockchain uh and offer easier to use experience and although we've designed an account model with a lot of flexibility to do that the reality has been to implement something like this you need to deploy a proxy contract in an account and then still have a layer and so the only real case where this actually worked so far is in the case of Aurora with Aurora Plus where the the whole Aurora is a proxy contract and and so Aurora plus actually showed a really interesting experience where uh you can for example stake a token or prepay or potentially some other way um kind of have a business relationship with your layer and then the relayer page for all your actual Unchained transactions that provides just a bad experience kind of hides a lot of blockchain complications and similar use cases are slit coin and others where they kind of hide the blockchain from the user and then have a business case and kind of charge the user in some way uh later in the business relationship so generally speaking this is kind of a broadly applicable um change that a lot of different partners or that already exist on the blockchain can use awesome thank you so much for that context super helpful so with that I'd like to now invite one of the working group members Bowen to kind of summarize some of the benefits and concerns that we saw while looking at.net in the public discussion so uh Bowen hello hey uh yeah so just a quick summary of the benefits uh is already being mentioned um this an EP would allow a third party to pay transaction fees on behalf of users um and that's the the main point of the meta transaction proposal uh and also is implemented on the on the protocol level uh and and you know automatically works for all smart contracts uh so if you are adaptive developer uh you don't necessarily have to think about uh for example deploying another proxy contract um like some other um like how meta transaction is implemented on some other blockchains uh so basically it's like a blanket implementation that would work uh for everyone um and also yeah enables a lot of future possibilities and makes onboarding uh very easy for example uh if you're a new user uh you don't necessarily not have to worry about uh first acquiring near to start interacting uh with different applications on here I mean obviously in order for that to happen there's some there's no steps that need to be made but meta transaction would be uh create first step towards that direction okay um so I think there were a lot of back and forth discussions uh on the uh uh meta transaction support for implicit account especially on the question of gnosis uh so I think the decision is that uh in this proposal specifically np366 uh that will not be implemented uh because there's still some discussions still uh going on there um and and this will instead be addressed uh in the future not uh and the current meta transaction implementation that already allow us to uh test not just the um the feature itself but also all the other toolings and you know relayers and other uh implementation in different tools on maybe integration which other products like wallets uh and so on and while we're still figuring out what the community is still figuring out what to do with the implicit accounts okay so yeah that's a summary of the uh benefits and concerns for the uh for this uh nap there is a question in chat from New Guinea so I will just read it out loud so we are on the same page uh the question is this only applies to implicit accounts that don't exist it's exist on chain right uh if if the question is about the concern yes and another point at the beginning Point uh mentioned that he left a couple of messages on the GitHub itself and I I see that there is there is still ongoing discussion there happening today even just before the meeting so I hope the community will address them and like mention them right now maybe out loud if you want to um to speak just raise your hands and we'll bring you into panelists probably so for the first of my concerns is that we need so-called domain separation for signatures and what this means that is that if we have different types of things that assigned with the same key we need to make sure that it's not possible to interpret one kind of thing with a different kind of thing because different parts of code don't know about each other in particular we have actual transactions signed with account Keys we have some Network level messages and now we are discussing introducing a different kind of thing a meta transaction and here like the proposal currently says we are just serializing a different structure but because borsche doesn't include any type information in the serialization we basically can't guarantee that one kind of structure can can't be deserialized as a different kind of structure so if we have a valid signature on chain it can be potentially abused by someone to be interpreted as a different as a signature of something entirely different and maybe in this particular case this can't be done but what I see that there are also other proposals that involve signing things with account Keys like there was a proposal that initially involved just signing some Json with account keys and who knows if Json can be interpreted as borch or some I'm sorry to interrupt you I the the concern that is was raised in in the chat is it are you sure that you're talking about the meta transactions and not the verified owner I am talking in a sense about both so and verify owner there was proposal to sign Jason here there is proposal to sign Bosch but transactions are re normal transactions not meta transactions are also Bush and they have different structure and there is no guarantee that you can't potentially interpret one structure as a different structure because I think both are variable lengths because they have lists of acros let's not dive into uh very neat details uh I see that Alexander has rise in hand and like the other Etc yeah we saw that uh comment of of Four Points you're just four points to discussed with the gore um I would say that they are almost about implementation part uh because I feel nap is not so specific and it is good that it is about the implementation part it means that we moved forward uh you know far forward and we first point about signature could be I believe could be pretty easily addressed and I we will address this this is actually a good point and other points they are considered just not always explicitly described you know so I believe we will address your points beginning um later a little bit later but anyways I I just to share you know a context with people who didn't see that comment and I just wanted to say that we discussed and I feel like everything is kind of addressable okay so to be clear I am not against the idea of having meta transaction per cell so if we are currently only working on some high-level idea of introducing this kind of actions this is probably fine but then I thought we are actually working on specific protocol change and protocol change includes like the details about format of messages and stuff and then there is another actually another issue that I didn't explicitly mention on GitHub that I think about so in response to one of the comments that we would like the plan is to have a payment as the first action in this meta transaction so that the relayer can ensure that they get paid so I see this problem in this delegate action there is a single receiver for all of its sub actions but for the payment the payment with the token is a function call to the Token contract but the re-election that the user wants to do probably has some different destination accounts so both cannot be included in the same delegate action and so how would you make sure that their layer gets paid in this case um I can give a feedback uh just a few days ago we written down a few use cases involving meta transactions and they're quite different for instance there is one use case when user wants to transfer fungible token paying a fee with the same fungible token and it's it actually easily maps on the method transactions because the receiver is the same you know fees in usdt and actual trans ft transaction is in usdt so um it's kind of easiest case and there are cases which are kind of more difficult when fee is in usdt in stablecoin and uh actual destination is another smart contract for instance when person doing some task and it's more difficult however um it's feasible but I mean what I what I want to say that there are different use cases with a little bit different um implementation nuances I would say so we can just right now it's not feasible to cover all cases I even I even believe that meta transaction is a kind of fundamental feature and when we map this methods different the central apps we find um even more use cases which we couldn't be foreseen at this moment and then we will find a way to apply that's that's it okay I see but having this like the actual action to be paid a payment using the same token as used to be to pay the fee Seasons this is a rather special case like in the general case the destination account will be different so I don't see how you can do this using this proposal and to actually fix this maybe you need some per action destination account or something this will be a quite significant change yeah everything to expand on that it it's probably more generic case would be to have multiple delegate actions uh that can be executed together and changing from one daily detention to multiple deleted actions will require a pretty significant change to the protocol again and so if that's the direction this is trending it would make sense to do it in one okay well thank you evgeny for surfacing those uh concerns and I think uh the working group members who have already reviewed the nap and have given their consideration can take that into account right now as they're trying to decide how to move four so I think just uh due to time uh I would like to propose that we move to the next step and kind of go through each working group member and kind of present sort of your put an indication and maybe if it has changed based on the conversation we just had or not um so yeah basically moving to the voting stage unless anyone has any other major concerns they'd like to to raise before so just to clarify with the current implementation meta transactions work only when the relayer gets paid in the same let's call it token or fft token that is transferring right so basically you can only using meta transaction you can only transfer the tokens that you you are using to pay their layer or do any other function call to the Token so it can be transfer call for example that can call something else through the transfer but but also that is um if you want to make the payment in the in the same transaction is just not generic enough and like making it instead of delegating action they're getting action batch or something would pretty much expand its capability without changing much in the current design okay so I guess Bowen could you maybe start by presenting like you your how are you feeling about the nap as it currently stands and uh you're you're sort of voting indication uh yeah I think the the current uh AP is a good first step towards uh everything we need uh not just for meta transactions but in general improving the onboarding experience for near um yeah so while I think there are um problems that needs to be addressed uh like the um uh the increased account problem and also uh this uh this payment problem that the experiences brought up um I would vote for uh accepting this AP uh and then have a future uh AP should uh that are about those addressing uh those more uh yeah those those problems in the incremental way okay great um Martian looks like you're thinking so maybe we'll we'll come back to you maybe Marcelo you want to go next well I I feel somehow similar um uh to Owen it doesn't feel uh completely good only accepting these um particular use case where we strive to have like a full-fledged mental transactions uh I've been following mostly all these proposals now this is uh going on in ethereum but of course it's completely different than here due to the asynchronous environment and uh yeah somehow it's interesting that we never thought about this uh before during the whole uh process in any case I leaned towards uh approving here since this anyway it's useful as it stunk today and uh I like the proposal that Max wrote in the shot that we should have this in mind the things that we should be able to upgrade it later right one comment I see this uh common Familia but it's also by the way posted for whoson panelists so really you might repost it again to everyone you'll just say we can just make the action to have a list of receiver ID actions but uh will this work if uh if the receiver IDs in different charts it's the same problem right it would work yeah because so the way it works so don't get action uh is pretty much relay extended from its account it goes to the user account and then that that account unpacks it into actual actions and then from there it will create receipts pretty much to other receiver IDs also I mean there's another option which is user just science two different delegate actions and then relayer sends them only if it gets to but I mean that's just more I mean so the current implementation is is this but it's just more annoying and given the synchronicity can create a little bit more um questions around like front running stuff well two different delegation actions would need uh the user to rely on the to trust the the layer basically that it will not just send one and then ignore the second exactly but yeah I think making receiver ID actions into a list and just when when the delegate action gets unpacked should allowed so that flexibility that it was asked for okay Larson so so one thing I I feel strange that we didn't think about this limitation before it kind of comes up here which uh kind of frames a little bit on the parade because on one side I really like the the whole notion Behind The Meta transaction but with this thing it feels very limited and normally I would say like hey give us 48 hours to like take another look to see if there is Maybe a similar fix to to something like Elia was suggesting what not to make it a little bit more General because the scenario I want to avoid is US rolling out you know one thing and then literally like in the next NEP changing that and then we because you know this is a protocol we have to support both versions forever and that's the that's the biggest kind of cost so here I would I would say like uh I know or even such option of like hey can we like postpone the voting by 48 hours and like take another good look to see if there's because the way I think about is like this either there is cohort and easy fix I mean they are never easy but like let's say something that we like yeah if we add this then suddenly it opens up more or we come to conclusion like no such a thing would be like far more complex so you know we will be a drastic change to the nap in the second scenario then I'm fine with going with this as the as the first version but it is the first option if it's Coco just enough changing something or or adding something there then suddenly it would uh you know open up more use cases while not forcing us to support both versions kind of forever yeah I mean I think we can definitely explore like conditional approval because it sounds like there's already like two-thirds of the working group members that are leading with approval so if there's like we approve but we want to see X Y and Z sort of addressed I think we that would be an acceptable uh path at least with our current connect process uh yeah but what I'd like to also maybe invite the authors to speak uh maybe they already thought about the general use cases whether it's uh it would be a major feature or your use cases that you had in mind do not need this General implementation I probably can't make some at some points that uh first of all I just can say that we were running Cycles with all these use cases and they're pretty much you know a big count of them and we found that it's almost impossible to make at least one step with this snap trying to uh Implement everything all together so we decided to just to you know to make one step to be able to make a second step later and I believe like how I see at this snap is this is a picture that allows for somebody paying guests you know for another party and which is not possible without the nap and the second point is that um uh just a short summary of all our discussions is that without this feature it's really hard to implement it in you know in a visible way to to to make a trustworthy to make it secure with no uh you know with no problems for user because if we see like my personal opinion about Aurora plus it's kind of you have registration forms you have uh they just paying years for um two accounts and um all everybody trust everybody and all this is kind of you know is doomed so that's how I see this nap Martin yeah Alex to be fair it's not an attack on you in any way anyway and and I'm as is like I I I yes I fully support it I just want to make sure because again myself I feel stupid that we didn't think about this while again I've been looking at this for like you know months basically you know that thing is that's when like okay let's um let's take another 24 hours that was our state during a few months it's like all right we almost uh we're almost done with everything just let's take another tutorial for hours and try to um predict everything it's quite hard yeah but thanks yeah well and this this NEP process and working groups is something that we're still bootstrapping as I mentioned at the start so this is absolutely it feels natural for for this to come up and you know yes ideally we'd be able to kind of uncover some of these in our async discussions on the nap or jump on calls where needed but uh I think it's absolutely like we want to make sure we're making good decisions um and yeah if we need to do some sort of extension to kind of address these concerns that are being raised and kind of re-vote I think we can definitely uh look at that and I think that's a healthy outcome Marcelo I see your hands so please go ahead yeah so let me speak not as a working group member um Aurora member right now uh this is a feature that we've been looking for for some time we have already these kind of meta transactions enabled with an order of plus inside our daughter uh we have been uh thinking about how we can make this better for future plans like let's say there were to be multiple instances of Aurora or whatnot so this is a feature that we are actually looking forward and I need to think a little bit about it but I think as it stands today it's probably not uh uh we can't use it as it is so I'm highlighting this because this is one use cases of uh one ecosystem partner uh that I mean might worth a think a little bit through it and now separate stuff do we have here like is this a proper context to discuss a little bit about this or is it better to leave the discussion uh onto the GitHub uh but this thing already I mean I think ideally we make the discussion public on GitHub but if it starts becoming circular and we're not actually able to make any progress there is a process in the depth that sort of uh recommends for whoever is having the the back and forth to actually jump on the call to to flush it out so it might be that you know and we can make it public as well so if anyone else is interested um you know they can certainly join so yeah I would I would say that um if if there needs to be a follow-up with a few people to Hash it out that's totally fine but again we wanna as Ilia was just mentioning you know this is part of the process it's complex and you know we don't want to be in a situation where we end up going in circles for a month on it if you know for months so we need to sort of figure out like what what actually do we are we accepting you know what's acceptable to move forward with and what's not uh so yeah so let's see maybe sync pre-review of ongoing apps would be good to have broader brainstorm earlier yeah so and thank you for those points we're actually working on but we just set up a Twitter account recently to create more visibility on on everything that's going on but we also want to give better visibility on the specific nips so there is a board on GitHub that kind of outlines all the naps and their statuses and you can filter them by categories but we're also going to be launching a regular update like like a newsletter or some kind of feed so yeah all right so uh just for this particular uh nip that we're in I guess Max Vlad do you want to sort of step in to kind of give your recommendation here I mean do we want to do a delay of 72 hours and vote async on the net and kind of try to address any of the concerns that were raised is there yeah yeah I think it sounds like people have particular idea how to generalize this transaction to address the current concerns like it's a pretty straightforward to the ambiguous thing to do there was some proposals from Ilia exactly what to do and this sounds to be doable within like three days um so let's let's do that let's say uh like authors uh Alexander Igor and I don't know whether you're gonna have time for this but Alexander igorio are the primary drivers here please address that you know plug in the list wherever there is no list in this uh in the spec and um in the end and let's wrap it up within 72 hours because it doesn't sound like we have other concerns besides this one and uh also of course make the structures upgradable used all this rust tag the union so that if we do miss something we can upgrade it without introducing more meta transactions or other things into our protocol spec um yeah and and that is it but we do need to time box it 72 hours and if we cannot if it sounds like we cannot figure it out within 72 hours then we consider this protocol the spec to be too ambiguous and uh that we have a a process for this in in an app which means we come back in some time later um so let's try to Crunch it into 72 hour two hours so like if we cannot figure it out in 72 hours I think there's also a question of like do we just accept the current version or uh well the current version well the authors have to submit I basically restart the nap process again I think that is also not completely clear are you guys as the working group members could vote right now and I I would say that moderators shouldn't make too much weight here uh so it's up to the protocol team then to how to maintain it in the future and how that will affect all the like you should wait the risk of uh splitting the ecosystem in the future like main burden of the maintenance as well yeah I think in that in this regular blood I think like if there is any chance in 72 hours to have a much more better version of this uh proposal will be a very much appreciated Like I Do stand by my word of like I lean towards approving this as it is today because it's some blocking some stuff uh it's blocking some use cases but uh I know complexity is a big thing like that's basically the main reason why if 2.0 doesn't exist today and uh like we wouldn't want that to bite us as in uh near complexity so if we can make it simpler in 72 hours it's better than voting today like we both know today it's basically no it's basically like we need to restart the process but if it will yes like what are the implications that's the question so I do like the proposal of delaying this by 72 hours in particular and and the other thing is that we we might vote for some high level uh proposal as in meta transactions uh with this particular fissure salt but this is assuming that we will be able to solve it in 72 hours so I guess one lesson learned here is that for future naps we should spend a little bit more effort on the like limitations because here we just settled there's just one line saying like oh it did not work for implicit accounts but we should have like which actually that spend more effort to be like hey what what else what other what are other like uh boundaries for for the projects and make sure that we somehow propagate it properly for people like evgeny can can chime in earlier yeah these are all really good learnings and happy to see engagement and you know we we've been trying to figure out how to create that engagement you know we're reaching out to people we're we're circulating as much as we can and I think like today is kind of making us all realize hey you know if we if we're going to be making decisions some of these things we do need to get more involved in whatever way um possible so yeah okay okay so I think what I'm just to reflect what I'm hearing back is uh the working group members are proposing to give a 72 hour time box to the author to address the concerns that were raised today and then to make another vote on whether to approve the net in its current state to accept and move it forward or to reject it if we reject it that means we close that net and then somebody would have to re-author a new Nick you know with whatever other uh idea or or fix that they would like to propose so and this is to avoid us continuing circular discussions on this map for many more months so it's kind of like if we really want to get this snip approved we need the author to address these concerns in 72 hours working group members to say yep these concerns have been addressed and move forward or not does that am I did I hear the working group correctly and do all does that sound like a reasonable path yes yes I think okay awesome so and then to answer Ken's question yeah I think we are basically doing like a maybe yes with contingency and you know I know that the current graph doesn't reflect this particular Edge case but again we're experimenting we're bootstrapping so if we realize that this is a case that we come across um many more times maybe we revisit that process but um I think uh to Marston's point I think we want to make sure that we're spending more time in the actual net preview to kind of avoid uh this situation where we get to the voting so all right cool all right so we have five minutes left are there any burning questions from anyone we can skip over to the Q a part or other ideas for for what you'd like to see from this process okay uh we'll be we'll make sure to take notes of everything that was surfaced today and to address that so thank you for for all of the the great inputs uh so far so just to close uh I want to talk about uh get in involved in ways to get more engaged in the process so the first step obviously is if you have an idea please go ahead and author and submit a nap if you want to see other nips that are going on as I mentioned we do have the the uh the kanban board on GitHub it's under the project section that kind of highlights some of the the Naps that are going on these are some of the nips that are currently for the protocol working group so feel free to join discussions of existing apps make comments add your concerns we we definitely want to hear about them in the in the neps as early as possible and then lastly if you uh don't necessarily know what you want to build or you just want to discuss ideas in general with other people I highly recommend that you join the the protocol community group yeah and then lastly we will be uh posting this call on the developer governance website as well as other meetings and other Nets so that's a really good place to kind of keep up to date but also as I mentioned we have our Twitter accounts near devgov where we also are trying to communicate more regularly about what's happening all right so with that I would like to thank give a huge shout out to the authors for all the effort that you've put into the snap and the discussion today and that's Ilya Igor and Alexander the working group members for engaging as well Bowen Marcin Alex Marcelo and then the community and everyone else who has participated we definitely want to continue to look at more proposals and and make things better but it does take you know a lot of coordination and alignment and so this is a healthy part of of the process for us to continue to figure this out together","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-04T03:55:24.394Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":3,"text":"hello everyone and Welcome to our second protocol working group meeting my name is Ori and I'm a technical program","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=3s"},{"start_seconds":10,"text":"manager from Pagoda and I'm very excited to uh kick off this script for the second time and discuss the protocol uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=10s"},{"start_seconds":19,"text":"proposal today so just to go over the agenda first I will give a quick overview on developer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=19s"},{"start_seconds":26,"text":"governance which includes our net process and working groups next we'll do some brief introductions as we have a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=26s"},{"start_seconds":33,"text":"few panelists joining us today then we'll get into the main discussion which is nep366 meta transactions and then we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=33s"},{"start_seconds":41,"text":"will open it up to q a and lastly we'll talk about next steps and how you can get involved in developer governance and if at any time you have questions feel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=41s"},{"start_seconds":50,"text":"free to drop them in the Q a button on the screen or in the chat and we'll we'll try to get to them if they're relevant or wait until the end","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=50s"},{"start_seconds":59,"text":"all right so let's start with a little bit of background on developer governance so over the last few months","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=59s"},{"start_seconds":66,"text":"we've been engaging with the community over this idea of developer governance which is about decentralizing nearest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=66s"},{"start_seconds":73,"text":"development and empowering anyone to contribute to evolving the ecosystem and we've been bucketing developer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=73s"},{"start_seconds":80,"text":"governance into three stages ideas voting and implementation and I just wanted to quickly highlight them to help","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=80s"},{"start_seconds":87,"text":"contextualize our meeting today so first ideas anyone can submit an idea for improving the protocol or standards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=87s"},{"start_seconds":96,"text":"and it starts with the community from Individual Builders and developers to groups and there have been several Community","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=96s"},{"start_seconds":104,"text":"groups that have self-organized around various topics of interest you know such as zero knowledge wallet standards and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=104s"},{"start_seconds":111,"text":"others and many of them have already been meeting regularly they've started telegram channels to communicate and you're welcome to join any of these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=111s"},{"start_seconds":119,"text":"Community groups or to start one yourself you can learn more on neo.org developer governance and once you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=119s"},{"start_seconds":127,"text":"an idea you can submit it through a nap so a nap and your enhancement proposal enables anyone to submit a proposal and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=127s"},{"start_seconds":135,"text":"this is similar to there's a similar process to other prominent open source projects like rust and as we've been getting many net submissions it's been","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=135s"},{"start_seconds":144,"text":"really exciting to see the the contribution from the community but it also made us realize that we needed a way to move them forward to review them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=144s"},{"start_seconds":152,"text":"to make decisions and determine the next steps so that they're not just sitting indefinitely so this is where the second","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=152s"},{"start_seconds":160,"text":"voting stage comes in which involves developer working groups and the working groups really is a way to help","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=160s"},{"start_seconds":167,"text":"operationalize the review of neps and the idea is to have multiple working groups each one focusing on a specific ecosystem need and to have subject","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=167s"},{"start_seconds":176,"text":"matter experts in that group that can help create focus and enable us to move faster and we've already kicked off the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=176s"},{"start_seconds":183,"text":"three working groups to help boost up the process so protocol working group contract standards working group and wallet standards and as I mentioned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=183s"},{"start_seconds":191,"text":"earlier we're here to iterate today on the protocol working group and putting these groups into practice is very much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=191s"},{"start_seconds":198,"text":"a gradual approach and requires flexibility as we learn what works and what doesn't but as we continue to iterate we really want to introduce more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=198s"},{"start_seconds":207,"text":"groups and empower the community to to run them so just to highlight the roles that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=207s"},{"start_seconds":215,"text":"involved in the net process there are four key ones first the author or or the champion this is the person who writes the proposal and and moves It Forward","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=215s"},{"start_seconds":224,"text":"presents it to the working group then there's the moderator this is the person who facilitates the process and helps validate that the proposal meets the net","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=224s"},{"start_seconds":232,"text":"guidelines and that everything is is moving along the reviewer subject matter expert is a person who gets assigned to assess the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=232s"},{"start_seconds":239,"text":"technical feasibility of the nap and then lastly the approver working group members that's a group that makes the the ultimate decision","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=239s"},{"start_seconds":248,"text":"and just to help illustrate the process so basically we have three stages draft review and voting and two outcomes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=248s"},{"start_seconds":257,"text":"approved and rejected and all of the roles mentioned before helped move the net through these stages and towards the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=257s"},{"start_seconds":264,"text":"outcome and most of this activity happens asynchronously on the nap itself but when we do get to the voting stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=264s"},{"start_seconds":271,"text":"each working group has a public meeting to discuss the nap with the author and to formalize the decision which is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=271s"},{"start_seconds":277,"text":"exactly what we are doing here today so we will execute this process and look at the proposal that has been in the review stage and have the author present","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=277s"},{"start_seconds":286,"text":"it and then go into the voting but before we jump into that part I also want to just talk about what happens when Nets get approved so that leads us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=286s"},{"start_seconds":294,"text":"to the third implementation stage and we're currently working on an overarching Dao which will be responsible for funding distribution","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=294s"},{"start_seconds":302,"text":"from the near foundation and other orgs and really the idea is that anyone can volunteer to propose to implement an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=302s"},{"start_seconds":309,"text":"agreed proposal for free or even for a compensation and we'll be sharing more information on that soon on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=309s"},{"start_seconds":316,"text":"developer governance website so just to put it all together we have the community we submit ideas using apps working groups which vote on those naps","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=316s"},{"start_seconds":325,"text":"and helped to move them forward and implementers who help Implement nips for the benefit of the entire community so with that overview I'd like to jump into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=325s"},{"start_seconds":333,"text":"the introductions and I would like to welcome the working group members and introduce them first so go in I'll hand","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=333s"},{"start_seconds":340,"text":"it over to you hey everyone I'm bull uh head of protocol Pagoda uh yeah very excited to be here and discussing the meta","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=340s"},{"start_seconds":348,"text":"transaction proposal uh so what was the sequence I think I don't see Marcelo so let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=348s"},{"start_seconds":356,"text":"skip to Marcin hi I'm arson I'm also from Pagoda and super excited to see new very exciting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=356s"},{"start_seconds":364,"text":"additions uh coming to New cool hi I'm Alex keoki I'm a ecosystem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=364s"},{"start_seconds":372,"text":"member um been involved in uh what three for a few years used to work at an exchange and a few other open source ecosystems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=372s"},{"start_seconds":381,"text":"have more of a product background than a developer background so we'll be helping provide some feedback from that lens","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=381s"},{"start_seconds":388,"text":"uh hi everyone Marcelo here it was hard to speak before uh before being a panelist uh I'm working with Aurora and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=388s"},{"start_seconds":398,"text":"uh happy to discuss my transactions today finally yeah awesome glad you all are here all right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=398s"},{"start_seconds":406,"text":"next I would like to introduce the moderators in the process so max hey everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=406s"},{"start_seconds":413,"text":"um butterfly on the wall don't mind me um I I hope orian Vlad Roloff will do most of the work here for me today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=413s"},{"start_seconds":420,"text":"um yeah and I'm just I don't know what am I doing here um making sure that the Quorum is observed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=420s"},{"start_seconds":427,"text":"hey everybody I'm Vlad I'm also on the moderator's side of things uh helping Ori with the technical side of Ryan","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=427s"},{"start_seconds":435,"text":"Knapps through and today we'll just keep an eye on the technical aspects of the discussion so keep keep it straight","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=435s"},{"start_seconds":442,"text":"let's not jump into Holy Wars um awesome hi again I'm Ori and yes I also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=442s"},{"start_seconds":451,"text":"play a moderator role in the process and very excited to keep on moving so all right now super super exciting we have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=451s"},{"start_seconds":460,"text":"the net author and champions who worked on meta transactions so I'd like to introduce Ilia hey everyone uh Ilya","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=460s"},{"start_seconds":469,"text":"um yeah originated yeah this is something we've probably discussed very early on but uh never actually designed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=469s"},{"start_seconds":479,"text":"the protocol and so it was exciting kind of to actually start the work and then see Igor and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=479s"},{"start_seconds":489,"text":"Alexander to pick it up actually get it hopefully the collection","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=489s"},{"start_seconds":496,"text":"Igor uh snap","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=496s"},{"start_seconds":503,"text":"I am just a developer in our product so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=503s"},{"start_seconds":512,"text":"that's all I'm near Ukraine member rust developer and X","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=512s"},{"start_seconds":520,"text":"city of the Central Bank developer of new sense stable coin smart contract helped Igor","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=520s"},{"start_seconds":528,"text":"in all discussions with this snap trying to push it forward thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=528s"},{"start_seconds":536,"text":"awesome yeah and that's actually a perfect segue to the main discussion which is the net itself so yeah I'd like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=536s"},{"start_seconds":543,"text":"to invite you back again Alexander to provide an overview of the nap and why you believe it is important and really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=543s"},{"start_seconds":550,"text":"any any author or Champion who's worked on that is welcome to to speak but uh yeah Alexander I will hand it over to you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=550s"},{"start_seconds":558,"text":"to start yeah thank you or and my plan is to share background a little bit and give just a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=558s"},{"start_seconds":566,"text":"quick refresh about meta transactions so I'd like to start with a little background Ilya is an original creator","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=566s"},{"start_seconds":574,"text":"of the nap and which was published in June 2022 the nap had received initial","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=574s"},{"start_seconds":582,"text":"review at that time we in the Central Bank thought about business case like how could we enable people with the lack","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=582s"},{"start_seconds":590,"text":"of native near coin to be able to transfer a stable coin and a EU sends","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=590s"},{"start_seconds":598,"text":"stablecoin in particular and any fungible token in general like use the T use the C","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=598s"},{"start_seconds":606,"text":"so that was our specific use case so while meta transactions enable even more use cases like the ability to interact","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=606s"},{"start_seconds":613,"text":"with any smart contract having no near coins at all to pay gas and so we analyzed a few options mostly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=613s"},{"start_seconds":622,"text":"workarounds and how could it be download that fundamental support by near blockchain and we arrived at the conclusion uh that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=622s"},{"start_seconds":631,"text":"it's just not possible to implement any work around like without giving up security","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=631s"},{"start_seconds":639,"text":"and usability due to lack of trust between all bodies and at that time we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=639s"},{"start_seconds":647,"text":"found this snap nap of meta transactions and decided to contribute to the net development because like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=647s"},{"start_seconds":655,"text":"we thought that it is a proper fundamental way to move forward um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=655s"},{"start_seconds":662,"text":"like it allows it gives an ability to interact with any smart contract having no near coins at all to pay gas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=662s"},{"start_seconds":671,"text":"and like um so yeah um on the next slide uh the next slide demonstrates we have this pull","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=671s"},{"start_seconds":680,"text":"request with the draft implementation which is actually on the final stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=680s"},{"start_seconds":687,"text":"um and there is diagram with a lot of stuff is going on there and uh yeah this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=687s"},{"start_seconds":694,"text":"slide is just to demonstrate that it's not just an app but we also have a draft implementation which is I I personally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=694s"},{"start_seconds":702,"text":"believe it is cool uh so and the diagram is quite complicated that's why I created more simple diagrams on the next","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=702s"},{"start_seconds":711,"text":"slide so you can go forward so uh there is an oversimplified promo statement what happens if user doesn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=711s"},{"start_seconds":719,"text":"have native near coin such users kind of fully limited the user is not able to do anything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=719s"},{"start_seconds":725,"text":"the user is just doomed to find anybody to get a little bit of native money","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=725s"},{"start_seconds":731,"text":"to you know to continue its uh own stuff its own work and on the set","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=731s"},{"start_seconds":738,"text":"and on the next slide uh Heaven meta transactions the user is more happy right and we introduce a native support","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=738s"},{"start_seconds":747,"text":"uh from near blockchain and with additional enablement with special","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=747s"},{"start_seconds":755,"text":"entities which is called which called layers so the problem many problems when different use cases","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=755s"},{"start_seconds":763,"text":"could be solved the user initiates a matters transaction while relayer pays for gas so fund dimensional limited","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=763s"},{"start_seconds":772,"text":"transaction is a protocol feature when a third party can pay gas for another body","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=772s"},{"start_seconds":780,"text":"and that's it and some Corner cases and security concerns are to be addressed by relayer implementation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=780s"},{"start_seconds":790,"text":"that's all from my side thank you awesome thank you Alexander is there any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=790s"},{"start_seconds":797,"text":"does any other author or Champion want to add anything at this point before we move to the actual discussion of the the concerns or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=797s"},{"start_seconds":807,"text":"benefits and decision I can add more context on kind of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=807s"},{"start_seconds":814,"text":"use cases right the kind of high level we always been trying to figure out how to hide blockchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=814s"},{"start_seconds":823,"text":"uh and offer easier to use experience and although we've designed an account model","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=823s"},{"start_seconds":831,"text":"with a lot of flexibility to do that the reality has been to implement something like this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=831s"},{"start_seconds":840,"text":"you need to deploy a proxy contract in an account and then still have a layer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=840s"},{"start_seconds":847,"text":"and so the only real case where this actually worked so far is in the case of Aurora with Aurora Plus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=847s"},{"start_seconds":855,"text":"where the the whole Aurora is a proxy contract and and so Aurora plus actually showed a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=855s"},{"start_seconds":862,"text":"really interesting experience where uh you can for example stake a token or prepay or potentially some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=862s"},{"start_seconds":870,"text":"other way um kind of have a business relationship with your layer and then the relayer page for all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=870s"},{"start_seconds":879,"text":"your actual Unchained transactions that provides just a bad experience kind of hides a lot of blockchain complications","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=879s"},{"start_seconds":886,"text":"and similar use cases are slit coin and others where they kind of hide the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=886s"},{"start_seconds":893,"text":"blockchain from the user and then have a business case and kind of charge the user in some way uh later in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=893s"},{"start_seconds":901,"text":"business relationship so generally speaking this is kind of a broadly applicable um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=901s"},{"start_seconds":909,"text":"change that a lot of different partners or that already exist on the blockchain can use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=909s"},{"start_seconds":917,"text":"awesome thank you so much for that context super helpful so with that I'd like to now invite one of the working group","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=917s"},{"start_seconds":925,"text":"members Bowen to kind of summarize some of the benefits and concerns that we saw while looking at.net in the public","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=925s"},{"start_seconds":933,"text":"discussion so uh Bowen hello hey uh yeah so just a quick summary of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=933s"},{"start_seconds":941,"text":"the benefits uh is already being mentioned um this an EP would allow a third party to pay transaction fees on behalf of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=941s"},{"start_seconds":950,"text":"users um and that's the the main point of the meta transaction proposal uh and also is implemented on the on the protocol level","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=950s"},{"start_seconds":958,"text":"uh and and you know automatically works for all smart contracts uh so if you are adaptive developer uh you don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=958s"},{"start_seconds":965,"text":"necessarily have to think about uh for example deploying another proxy contract um like some other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=965s"},{"start_seconds":973,"text":"um like how meta transaction is implemented on some other blockchains uh so basically it's like a blanket implementation that would work uh for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=973s"},{"start_seconds":981,"text":"everyone um and also yeah enables a lot of future possibilities and makes onboarding uh very easy for example uh if you're a new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=981s"},{"start_seconds":990,"text":"user uh you don't necessarily not have to worry about uh first acquiring near to start interacting uh with different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=990s"},{"start_seconds":997,"text":"applications on here I mean obviously in order for that to happen there's some there's no steps that need to be made but meta transaction would be uh create","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=997s"},{"start_seconds":1005,"text":"first step towards that direction okay um so I think there were a lot of back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1005s"},{"start_seconds":1013,"text":"and forth discussions uh on the uh uh meta transaction support for implicit account especially on the question of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1013s"},{"start_seconds":1021,"text":"gnosis uh so I think the decision is that uh in this proposal specifically np366 uh that will not be implemented uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1021s"},{"start_seconds":1030,"text":"because there's still some discussions still uh going on there um and and this will instead be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1030s"},{"start_seconds":1038,"text":"addressed uh in the future not uh and the current meta transaction implementation that already allow us to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1038s"},{"start_seconds":1044,"text":"uh test not just the um the feature itself but also all the other toolings and you know relayers and other uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1044s"},{"start_seconds":1052,"text":"implementation in different tools on maybe integration which other products like wallets uh and so on and while we're still figuring out what the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1052s"},{"start_seconds":1061,"text":"community is still figuring out what to do with the implicit accounts okay so yeah that's a summary of the uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1061s"},{"start_seconds":1069,"text":"benefits and concerns for the uh for this uh nap there is a question in chat from New","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1069s"},{"start_seconds":1077,"text":"Guinea so I will just read it out loud so we are on the same page uh the question is this only applies to implicit accounts that don't exist it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1077s"},{"start_seconds":1085,"text":"exist on chain right uh if if the question is about the concern yes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1085s"},{"start_seconds":1093,"text":"and another point at the beginning Point uh mentioned that he left a couple of messages on the GitHub itself and I I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1093s"},{"start_seconds":1101,"text":"see that there is there is still ongoing discussion there happening today even just before the meeting so I hope the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1101s"},{"start_seconds":1110,"text":"community will address them and like mention them right now maybe out loud if you want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1110s"},{"start_seconds":1118,"text":"um to speak just raise your hands and we'll bring you into panelists probably so for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1118s"},{"start_seconds":1125,"text":"the first of my concerns is that we need so-called domain separation for signatures and what this means that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1125s"},{"start_seconds":1134,"text":"that if we have different types of things that assigned with the same key we need to make sure that it's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1134s"},{"start_seconds":1142,"text":"possible to interpret one kind of thing with a different kind of thing because different parts of code don't know about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1142s"},{"start_seconds":1150,"text":"each other in particular we have actual transactions signed with account Keys we have some Network level messages and now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1150s"},{"start_seconds":1160,"text":"we are discussing introducing a different kind of thing a meta transaction and here like the proposal currently","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1160s"},{"start_seconds":1169,"text":"says we are just serializing a different structure but because borsche doesn't include any type information in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1169s"},{"start_seconds":1178,"text":"serialization we basically can't guarantee that one kind of structure can can't be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1178s"},{"start_seconds":1185,"text":"deserialized as a different kind of structure so if we have a valid signature on chain it can be potentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1185s"},{"start_seconds":1191,"text":"abused by someone to be interpreted as a different as a signature of something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1191s"},{"start_seconds":1198,"text":"entirely different and maybe in this particular case this can't be done","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1198s"},{"start_seconds":1205,"text":"but what I see that there are also other proposals that involve signing things with account Keys like there was a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1205s"},{"start_seconds":1214,"text":"proposal that initially involved just signing some Json with account keys and who knows if Json can be interpreted as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1214s"},{"start_seconds":1223,"text":"borch or some I'm sorry to interrupt you I the the concern that is was raised in in the chat is it are you sure that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1223s"},{"start_seconds":1232,"text":"you're talking about the meta transactions and not the verified owner I am talking in a sense about both so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1232s"},{"start_seconds":1240,"text":"and verify owner there was proposal to sign Jason here there is proposal to sign Bosch but transactions are re","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1240s"},{"start_seconds":1250,"text":"normal transactions not meta transactions are also Bush and they have different structure and there is no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1250s"},{"start_seconds":1258,"text":"guarantee that you can't potentially interpret one structure as a different structure because I think both are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1258s"},{"start_seconds":1266,"text":"variable lengths because they have lists of acros let's not dive into uh very neat details","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1266s"},{"start_seconds":1275,"text":"uh I see that Alexander has rise in hand and like the other Etc yeah we saw that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1275s"},{"start_seconds":1282,"text":"uh comment of of Four Points you're just four points to discussed with the gore um I would say that they are almost","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1282s"},{"start_seconds":1292,"text":"about implementation part uh because I feel nap is not so specific","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1292s"},{"start_seconds":1299,"text":"and it is good that it is about the implementation part it means that we moved forward uh you know far forward and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1299s"},{"start_seconds":1308,"text":"we first point about signature could be I believe could be pretty easily addressed and I we will address this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1308s"},{"start_seconds":1316,"text":"this is actually a good point and other points they are considered just not always explicitly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1316s"},{"start_seconds":1325,"text":"described you know so I believe we will address your points beginning","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1325s"},{"start_seconds":1332,"text":"um later a little bit later but anyways I I just to share you know a context with people who didn't see that comment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1332s"},{"start_seconds":1340,"text":"and I just wanted to say that we discussed and I feel like everything is kind of addressable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1340s"},{"start_seconds":1348,"text":"okay so to be clear I am not against the idea of having meta transaction per cell","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1348s"},{"start_seconds":1356,"text":"so if we are currently only working on some high-level idea of introducing this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1356s"},{"start_seconds":1363,"text":"kind of actions this is probably fine but then I thought we are actually working on specific protocol change and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1363s"},{"start_seconds":1372,"text":"protocol change includes like the details about format of messages and stuff","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1372s"},{"start_seconds":1378,"text":"and then there is another actually another issue that I didn't explicitly mention on GitHub that I think about so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1378s"},{"start_seconds":1388,"text":"in response to one of the comments that we would like the plan is to have a payment as the first action in this meta","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1388s"},{"start_seconds":1398,"text":"transaction so that the relayer can ensure that they get paid so I see this problem in this delegate action there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1398s"},{"start_seconds":1407,"text":"a single receiver for all of its sub actions but for the payment the payment with the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1407s"},{"start_seconds":1415,"text":"token is a function call to the Token contract but the re-election that the user wants to do probably has some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1415s"},{"start_seconds":1424,"text":"different destination accounts so both cannot be included in the same delegate action","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1424s"},{"start_seconds":1432,"text":"and so how would you make sure that their layer gets paid in this case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1432s"},{"start_seconds":1442,"text":"um I can give a feedback uh just a few days ago we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1442s"},{"start_seconds":1450,"text":"written down a few use cases involving meta transactions and they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1450s"},{"start_seconds":1457,"text":"quite different for instance there is one use case when user wants to transfer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1457s"},{"start_seconds":1464,"text":"fungible token paying a fee with the same fungible token and it's it actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1464s"},{"start_seconds":1471,"text":"easily maps on the method transactions because the receiver is the same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1471s"},{"start_seconds":1478,"text":"you know fees in usdt and actual trans ft transaction is in usdt so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1478s"},{"start_seconds":1488,"text":"um it's kind of easiest case and there are cases which are kind of more difficult","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1488s"},{"start_seconds":1494,"text":"when fee is in usdt in stablecoin and uh actual destination is another smart","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1494s"},{"start_seconds":1503,"text":"contract for instance when person doing some task and it's more difficult however","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1503s"},{"start_seconds":1511,"text":"um it's feasible but I mean what I what I want to say that there are different use cases with a little bit different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1511s"},{"start_seconds":1519,"text":"um implementation nuances I would say so we can just right now it's not feasible to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1519s"},{"start_seconds":1527,"text":"cover all cases I even I even believe that meta transaction is a kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1527s"},{"start_seconds":1534,"text":"fundamental feature and when we map this methods different the central apps","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1534s"},{"start_seconds":1542,"text":"we find um even more use cases which we couldn't be foreseen at this moment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1542s"},{"start_seconds":1551,"text":"and then we will find a way to apply that's that's it okay I see but having","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1551s"},{"start_seconds":1561,"text":"this like the actual action to be paid a payment using the same token as used to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1561s"},{"start_seconds":1568,"text":"be to pay the fee Seasons this is a rather special case like in the general case the destination account will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1568s"},{"start_seconds":1576,"text":"different so I don't see how you can do this using","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1576s"},{"start_seconds":1582,"text":"this proposal and to actually fix this maybe you need some per action destination account or something this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1582s"},{"start_seconds":1590,"text":"will be a quite significant change yeah everything to expand on that it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1590s"},{"start_seconds":1599,"text":"it's probably more generic case would be to have multiple delegate actions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1599s"},{"start_seconds":1605,"text":"uh that can be executed together and changing from one daily detention to multiple deleted actions will require a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1605s"},{"start_seconds":1614,"text":"pretty significant change to the protocol again and so if that's the direction this is trending it would make sense to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1614s"},{"start_seconds":1623,"text":"do it in one okay well thank you evgeny for surfacing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1623s"},{"start_seconds":1631,"text":"those uh concerns and I think uh the working group members who have already reviewed the nap and have given their consideration can take that into account","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1631s"},{"start_seconds":1639,"text":"right now as they're trying to decide how to move four so I think just uh due to time uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1639s"},{"start_seconds":1649,"text":"would like to propose that we move to the next step and kind of go through each working group member and kind of present sort of your put an indication and maybe if it has changed based on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1649s"},{"start_seconds":1657,"text":"conversation we just had or not um so yeah basically moving to the voting stage unless anyone has any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1657s"},{"start_seconds":1666,"text":"other major concerns they'd like to to raise before so just to clarify with the current implementation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1666s"},{"start_seconds":1674,"text":"meta transactions work only when the relayer gets paid in the same let's call it token","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1674s"},{"start_seconds":1680,"text":"or fft token that is transferring right so basically you can only using meta","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1680s"},{"start_seconds":1689,"text":"transaction you can only transfer the tokens that you you are using to pay their layer or do any other function","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1689s"},{"start_seconds":1696,"text":"call to the Token so it can be transfer call for example that can call something else through the transfer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1696s"},{"start_seconds":1708,"text":"but but also that is um if you want to make the payment in the in the same transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1708s"},{"start_seconds":1715,"text":"is just not generic enough and like making it instead of delegating action","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1715s"},{"start_seconds":1722,"text":"they're getting action batch or something would pretty much expand its capability without changing much in the current","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1722s"},{"start_seconds":1732,"text":"design okay so I guess Bowen could you maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1732s"},{"start_seconds":1740,"text":"start by presenting like you your how are you feeling about the nap as it currently stands and uh you're you're sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1740s"},{"start_seconds":1748,"text":"voting indication uh yeah I think the the current uh AP is a good first step towards uh everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1748s"},{"start_seconds":1756,"text":"we need uh not just for meta transactions but in general improving the onboarding experience for near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1756s"},{"start_seconds":1765,"text":"um yeah so while I think there are um problems that needs to be addressed uh like the um uh the increased account","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1765s"},{"start_seconds":1774,"text":"problem and also uh this uh this payment problem that the experiences brought up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1774s"},{"start_seconds":1782,"text":"um I would vote for uh accepting this AP uh and then have a future uh AP should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1782s"},{"start_seconds":1789,"text":"uh that are about those addressing uh those more uh yeah those those problems in the incremental way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1789s"},{"start_seconds":1797,"text":"okay great um Martian looks like you're thinking so maybe we'll we'll come back to you maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1797s"},{"start_seconds":1804,"text":"Marcelo you want to go next well I I feel somehow similar","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1804s"},{"start_seconds":1812,"text":"um uh to Owen it doesn't feel uh completely good only accepting these um particular use case where we strive to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1812s"},{"start_seconds":1819,"text":"have like a full-fledged mental transactions uh I've been following mostly all these proposals now this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1819s"},{"start_seconds":1827,"text":"uh going on in ethereum but of course it's completely different than here due to the asynchronous environment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1827s"},{"start_seconds":1834,"text":"and uh yeah somehow it's interesting that we never thought about this uh before during the whole uh process in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1834s"},{"start_seconds":1843,"text":"any case I leaned towards uh approving here since this anyway it's useful as it stunk today and uh I like the proposal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1843s"},{"start_seconds":1851,"text":"that Max wrote in the shot that we should have this in mind the things that we should be able to upgrade it later","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1851s"},{"start_seconds":1858,"text":"right one comment I see this uh common Familia but it's also by the way posted for whoson panelists so really you might","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1858s"},{"start_seconds":1867,"text":"repost it again to everyone you'll just say we can just make the action to have a list of receiver ID actions but uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1867s"},{"start_seconds":1875,"text":"will this work if uh if the receiver IDs in different charts it's the same problem right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1875s"},{"start_seconds":1885,"text":"it would work yeah because so the way it works so don't get action uh is pretty much relay extended from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1885s"},{"start_seconds":1893,"text":"its account it goes to the user account and then that that account unpacks it into actual actions and then from there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1893s"},{"start_seconds":1901,"text":"it will create receipts pretty much to other receiver IDs also I mean there's another option which is user just science two different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1901s"},{"start_seconds":1909,"text":"delegate actions and then relayer sends them only if it gets to but I mean that's just more I mean so the current","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1909s"},{"start_seconds":1918,"text":"implementation is is this but it's just more annoying and given the synchronicity can create a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1918s"},{"start_seconds":1926,"text":"little bit more um questions around like front running stuff well two different delegation actions would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1926s"},{"start_seconds":1934,"text":"need uh the user to rely on the to trust the the layer basically that it will not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1934s"},{"start_seconds":1943,"text":"just send one and then ignore the second exactly but yeah I think making receiver ID","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1943s"},{"start_seconds":1950,"text":"actions into a list and just when when the delegate action gets unpacked should allowed so that flexibility that it was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1950s"},{"start_seconds":1958,"text":"asked for okay Larson so so one thing I I feel strange that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1958s"},{"start_seconds":1967,"text":"didn't think about this limitation before it kind of comes up here which uh kind of frames a little bit on the parade because on one side I really like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1967s"},{"start_seconds":1976,"text":"the the whole notion Behind The Meta transaction but with this thing it feels very limited and normally I would say like hey give us 48","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1976s"},{"start_seconds":1985,"text":"hours to like take another look to see if there is Maybe a similar fix to to something like Elia was suggesting what not to make it a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1985s"},{"start_seconds":1993,"text":"little bit more General because the scenario I want to avoid is US rolling out you know one thing and then literally like in the next NEP","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=1993s"},{"start_seconds":2001,"text":"changing that and then we because you know this is a protocol we have to support both versions forever and that's the that's the biggest kind of cost so here I would I would say like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2001s"},{"start_seconds":2010,"text":"uh I know or even such option of like hey can we like postpone the voting by 48 hours and like take another good look","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2010s"},{"start_seconds":2018,"text":"to see if there's because the way I think about is like this either there is cohort and easy fix I mean they are never easy but like let's say something","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2018s"},{"start_seconds":2027,"text":"that we like yeah if we add this then suddenly it opens up more or we come to conclusion like no such a thing would be like far more complex so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2027s"},{"start_seconds":2035,"text":"you know we will be a drastic change to the nap in the second scenario then I'm fine with going with this as the as the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2035s"},{"start_seconds":2043,"text":"first version but it is the first option if it's Coco just enough changing something or or adding something there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2043s"},{"start_seconds":2051,"text":"then suddenly it would uh you know open up more use cases while not forcing us to support both versions kind of forever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2051s"},{"start_seconds":2060,"text":"yeah I mean I think we can definitely explore like conditional approval because it sounds like there's already like two-thirds of the working group","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2060s"},{"start_seconds":2068,"text":"members that are leading with approval so if there's like we approve but we want to see X Y and Z sort of addressed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2068s"},{"start_seconds":2077,"text":"I think we that would be an acceptable uh path at least with our current connect process uh yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2077s"},{"start_seconds":2084,"text":"but what I'd like to also maybe invite the authors to speak uh maybe they already thought about the general use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2084s"},{"start_seconds":2092,"text":"cases whether it's uh it would be a major feature or your use cases that you had","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2092s"},{"start_seconds":2100,"text":"in mind do not need this General implementation I probably can't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2100s"},{"start_seconds":2108,"text":"make some at some points that uh first of all I just can say that we were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2108s"},{"start_seconds":2115,"text":"running Cycles with all these use cases and they're pretty much you know a big","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2115s"},{"start_seconds":2122,"text":"count of them and we found that it's almost impossible to make at least one step with this snap trying to uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2122s"},{"start_seconds":2130,"text":"Implement everything all together so we decided to just to you know to make one step to be able to make a second step","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2130s"},{"start_seconds":2138,"text":"later and I believe like how I see at this snap is this is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2138s"},{"start_seconds":2146,"text":"picture that allows for somebody paying guests you know for another party","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2146s"},{"start_seconds":2154,"text":"and which is not possible without the nap and the second point is that um uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2154s"},{"start_seconds":2161,"text":"just a short summary of all our discussions is that without this feature","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2161s"},{"start_seconds":2169,"text":"it's really hard to implement it in you know in a visible way to to to make a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2169s"},{"start_seconds":2179,"text":"trustworthy to make it secure with no uh you know with no problems for user","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2179s"},{"start_seconds":2186,"text":"because if we see like my personal opinion about Aurora plus it's kind of you have registration forms you have uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2186s"},{"start_seconds":2193,"text":"they just paying years for um two accounts and um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2193s"},{"start_seconds":2200,"text":"all everybody trust everybody and all this is kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2200s"},{"start_seconds":2208,"text":"you know is doomed so that's how I see this nap Martin yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2208s"},{"start_seconds":2216,"text":"Alex to be fair it's not an attack on you in any way anyway and and I'm as is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2216s"},{"start_seconds":2223,"text":"like I I I yes I fully support it I just want to make sure because again myself I feel stupid that we didn't think about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2223s"},{"start_seconds":2231,"text":"this while again I've been looking at this for like you know months basically you know that thing is that's when like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2231s"},{"start_seconds":2240,"text":"okay let's um let's take another 24 hours that was our state during a few months it's like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2240s"},{"start_seconds":2249,"text":"all right we almost uh we're almost done with everything just let's take another tutorial for hours and try to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2249s"},{"start_seconds":2257,"text":"um predict everything it's quite hard yeah but thanks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2257s"},{"start_seconds":2265,"text":"yeah well and this this NEP process and working groups is something that we're still bootstrapping as I mentioned at the start so this is absolutely it feels","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2265s"},{"start_seconds":2273,"text":"natural for for this to come up and you know yes ideally we'd be able to kind of uncover some of these in our async discussions on the nap or jump on calls","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2273s"},{"start_seconds":2281,"text":"where needed but uh I think it's absolutely like we want to make sure we're making good decisions um and yeah if we need to do some sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2281s"},{"start_seconds":2289,"text":"of extension to kind of address these concerns that are being raised and kind of re-vote I think we can definitely uh look at that and I think that's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2289s"},{"start_seconds":2297,"text":"healthy outcome Marcelo I see your hands so please go ahead yeah so let me speak not as a working group member um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2297s"},{"start_seconds":2306,"text":"Aurora member right now uh this is a feature that we've been looking for for some time we have already these kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2306s"},{"start_seconds":2314,"text":"meta transactions enabled with an order of plus inside our daughter uh we have been uh thinking about how we can make this better for future plans like let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2314s"},{"start_seconds":2323,"text":"say there were to be multiple instances of Aurora or whatnot so this is a feature that we are actually looking forward and I need to think a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2323s"},{"start_seconds":2331,"text":"about it but I think as it stands today it's probably not uh uh we can't use it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2331s"},{"start_seconds":2339,"text":"as it is so I'm highlighting this because this is one use cases of uh one ecosystem partner uh that I mean might","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2339s"},{"start_seconds":2348,"text":"worth a think a little bit through it and now separate stuff do we have here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2348s"},{"start_seconds":2356,"text":"like is this a proper context to discuss a little bit about this or is it better to leave the discussion uh onto the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2356s"},{"start_seconds":2364,"text":"GitHub uh but this thing already I mean I think ideally we make the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2364s"},{"start_seconds":2371,"text":"discussion public on GitHub but if it starts becoming circular and we're not actually able to make any progress there is a process in the depth that sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2371s"},{"start_seconds":2380,"text":"uh recommends for whoever is having the the back and forth to actually jump on the call to to flush it out so it might","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2380s"},{"start_seconds":2387,"text":"be that you know and we can make it public as well so if anyone else is interested um you know they can certainly join so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2387s"},{"start_seconds":2394,"text":"yeah I would I would say that um if if there needs to be a follow-up with a few people to Hash it out that's totally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2394s"},{"start_seconds":2402,"text":"fine but again we wanna as Ilia was just mentioning you know this is part of the process it's complex and you know we don't want to be in a situation where we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2402s"},{"start_seconds":2410,"text":"end up going in circles for a month on it if you know for months so we need to sort of figure out like what what actually do we are we accepting you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2410s"},{"start_seconds":2419,"text":"what's acceptable to move forward with and what's not uh so yeah so let's see maybe sync pre-review of ongoing apps would be good to have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2419s"},{"start_seconds":2426,"text":"broader brainstorm earlier yeah so and thank you for those points we're actually working on but we just set up a Twitter account recently to create more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2426s"},{"start_seconds":2435,"text":"visibility on on everything that's going on but we also want to give better visibility on the specific nips so there is a board on GitHub that kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2435s"},{"start_seconds":2442,"text":"outlines all the naps and their statuses and you can filter them by categories but we're also going to be launching a regular update like like a newsletter or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2442s"},{"start_seconds":2450,"text":"some kind of feed so yeah all right so uh just for this particular","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2450s"},{"start_seconds":2457,"text":"uh nip that we're in I guess Max Vlad do you want to sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2457s"},{"start_seconds":2465,"text":"step in to kind of give your recommendation here I mean do we want to do a delay of 72 hours and vote async on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2465s"},{"start_seconds":2473,"text":"the net and kind of try to address any of the concerns that were raised is there yeah yeah I think it sounds like people have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2473s"},{"start_seconds":2482,"text":"particular idea how to generalize this transaction to address the current concerns like it's a pretty straightforward to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2482s"},{"start_seconds":2490,"text":"the ambiguous thing to do there was some proposals from Ilia exactly what to do and this sounds to be doable within like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2490s"},{"start_seconds":2499,"text":"three days um so let's let's do that let's say uh like authors uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2499s"},{"start_seconds":2508,"text":"Alexander Igor and I don't know whether you're gonna have time for this but Alexander igorio are the primary drivers here please","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2508s"},{"start_seconds":2515,"text":"address that you know plug in the list wherever there is no list in this uh in the spec and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2515s"},{"start_seconds":2523,"text":"um in the end and let's wrap it up within 72 hours because it doesn't sound like we have other concerns besides this one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2523s"},{"start_seconds":2530,"text":"and uh also of course make the structures upgradable used all this rust tag the union so that if we do miss","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2530s"},{"start_seconds":2538,"text":"something we can upgrade it without introducing more meta transactions or other things into our protocol spec","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2538s"},{"start_seconds":2547,"text":"um yeah and and that is it but we do need to time box it 72 hours and if we cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2547s"},{"start_seconds":2556,"text":"if it sounds like we cannot figure it out within 72 hours then we consider this protocol the spec to be too ambiguous","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2556s"},{"start_seconds":2564,"text":"and uh that we have a a process for this in in an app which means we come back in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2564s"},{"start_seconds":2571,"text":"some time later um so let's try to Crunch it into 72 hour two hours","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2571s"},{"start_seconds":2578,"text":"so like if we cannot figure it out in 72 hours I think there's also a question of like do we just accept the current version or uh well the current version","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2578s"},{"start_seconds":2587,"text":"well the authors have to submit I basically restart the nap process again I think that is also not completely clear","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2587s"},{"start_seconds":2596,"text":"are you guys as the working group members could vote right now and I I would say that moderators shouldn't make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2596s"},{"start_seconds":2605,"text":"too much weight here uh so it's up to the protocol team then to how to maintain it in the future and how that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2605s"},{"start_seconds":2613,"text":"will affect all the like you should wait the risk of uh splitting the ecosystem in the future like main","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2613s"},{"start_seconds":2621,"text":"burden of the maintenance as well yeah I think in that in this regular blood I think like if there is any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2621s"},{"start_seconds":2629,"text":"chance in 72 hours to have a much more better version of this uh proposal will be a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2629s"},{"start_seconds":2637,"text":"very much appreciated Like I Do stand by my word of like I lean towards approving this as it is today because it's some blocking some stuff uh it's blocking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2637s"},{"start_seconds":2645,"text":"some use cases but uh I know complexity is a big thing like that's basically the main reason why if 2.0 doesn't exist","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2645s"},{"start_seconds":2654,"text":"today and uh like we wouldn't want that to bite us as in uh near complexity so if we can make it simpler in 72 hours","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2654s"},{"start_seconds":2663,"text":"it's better than voting today like we both know today it's basically no it's basically like we need to restart","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2663s"},{"start_seconds":2671,"text":"the process but if it will yes like what are the implications that's the question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2671s"},{"start_seconds":2678,"text":"so I do like the proposal of delaying this by 72 hours in particular and and the other thing is that we we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2678s"},{"start_seconds":2686,"text":"might vote for some high level uh proposal as in meta transactions uh with this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2686s"},{"start_seconds":2693,"text":"particular fissure salt but this is assuming that we will be able to solve it in 72 hours so I guess one lesson learned here is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2693s"},{"start_seconds":2701,"text":"that for future naps we should spend a little bit more effort on the like limitations because here we just settled there's just one line saying","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2701s"},{"start_seconds":2708,"text":"like oh it did not work for implicit accounts but we should have like which actually that spend more effort to be like hey what what else what other what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2708s"},{"start_seconds":2715,"text":"are other like uh boundaries for for the projects and make sure that we somehow propagate it properly for people like evgeny can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2715s"},{"start_seconds":2723,"text":"can chime in earlier yeah these are all really good learnings and happy to see engagement and you know we we've been trying to figure out how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2723s"},{"start_seconds":2731,"text":"to create that engagement you know we're reaching out to people we're we're circulating as much as we can and I think like today is kind of making us all realize hey you know if we if we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2731s"},{"start_seconds":2739,"text":"going to be making decisions some of these things we do need to get more involved in whatever way um possible so yeah okay okay so I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2739s"},{"start_seconds":2748,"text":"what I'm just to reflect what I'm hearing back is uh the working group members are proposing to give a 72 hour time box to the author to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2748s"},{"start_seconds":2757,"text":"address the concerns that were raised today and then to make another vote on whether to approve the net in its current state to accept and move it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2757s"},{"start_seconds":2766,"text":"forward or to reject it if we reject it that means we close that net and then somebody would have to re-author a new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2766s"},{"start_seconds":2773,"text":"Nick you know with whatever other uh idea or or fix that they would like to propose so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2773s"},{"start_seconds":2781,"text":"and this is to avoid us continuing circular discussions on this map for many more months so it's kind of like if we really want to get this snip approved","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2781s"},{"start_seconds":2790,"text":"we need the author to address these concerns in 72 hours working group members to say yep these concerns have been addressed and move forward or not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2790s"},{"start_seconds":2798,"text":"does that am I did I hear the working group correctly and do all does that sound like a reasonable path","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2798s"},{"start_seconds":2806,"text":"yes yes I think okay awesome so and then to answer Ken's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2806s"},{"start_seconds":2813,"text":"question yeah I think we are basically doing like a maybe yes with contingency and you know I know that the current graph doesn't reflect this particular","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2813s"},{"start_seconds":2822,"text":"Edge case but again we're experimenting we're bootstrapping so if we realize that this is a case that we come across um many more times maybe we revisit that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2822s"},{"start_seconds":2831,"text":"process but um I think uh to Marston's point I think we want to make sure that we're spending more time in the actual net preview to kind of avoid uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2831s"},{"start_seconds":2840,"text":"this situation where we get to the voting so all right cool all right so we have five minutes left are there any burning questions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2840s"},{"start_seconds":2848,"text":"from anyone we can skip over to the Q a part or other ideas for for what you'd like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2848s"},{"start_seconds":2856,"text":"to see from this process okay uh we'll be we'll make sure to take","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2856s"},{"start_seconds":2864,"text":"notes of everything that was surfaced today and to address that so thank you for for all of the the great inputs uh so far so just to close uh I want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2864s"},{"start_seconds":2874,"text":"talk about uh get in involved in ways to get more engaged in the process so the first step obviously is if you have an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2874s"},{"start_seconds":2882,"text":"idea please go ahead and author and submit a nap if you want to see other nips that are going on as I mentioned we do have the the uh the kanban board on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2882s"},{"start_seconds":2892,"text":"GitHub it's under the project section that kind of highlights some of the the Naps that are going on these are some of the nips that are currently for the protocol working group so feel free to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2892s"},{"start_seconds":2901,"text":"join discussions of existing apps make comments add your concerns we we definitely want to hear about them in the in the neps as early as possible and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2901s"},{"start_seconds":2910,"text":"then lastly if you uh don't necessarily know what you want to build or you just want to discuss ideas in general with other people I highly recommend that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2910s"},{"start_seconds":2917,"text":"join the the protocol community group yeah and then lastly we will be uh posting this call on the developer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2917s"},{"start_seconds":2925,"text":"governance website as well as other meetings and other Nets so that's a really good place to kind of keep up to date but also as I mentioned we have our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2925s"},{"start_seconds":2933,"text":"Twitter accounts near devgov where we also are trying to communicate more regularly about what's happening","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2933s"},{"start_seconds":2940,"text":"all right so with that I would like to thank give a huge shout out to the authors for all the effort that you've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2940s"},{"start_seconds":2948,"text":"put into the snap and the discussion today and that's Ilya Igor and Alexander the working group members for engaging as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2948s"},{"start_seconds":2957,"text":"well Bowen Marcin Alex Marcelo and then the community and everyone else who has participated we definitely want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2957s"},{"start_seconds":2964,"text":"continue to look at more proposals and and make things better but it does take you know a lot of coordination and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2964s"},{"start_seconds":2972,"text":"alignment and so this is a healthy part of of the process for us to continue to figure this out together","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI&t=2972s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=NzU8B58HkwI","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/NzU8B58HkwI"}