{"id":"J5GTpOIeOJ8","title":"Memes, Money and the Fight for the AI Economy! Ft. Illia and Murad","description":"Tune in for a conversation on community, economics, the state of crypto and the future of AI from two of crypto's best minds.","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2025-11-25T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/J5GTpOIeOJ8/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"All right, we should be live. Welcome everybody. Today we have two of the best thinkers in crypto category leaders in their respective niches with us. Uh Elia and Morad. Welcome fellas. Uh happy to have you on the stream. Great to be here. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it should be a fun one and I I know we want to cover a lot of topics, so why don't we just get right into it. Um, I was thinking about the best way to start this specific conversation and uh, going on kind of the state of the market and where people are at. I think it's a bit of an anxious time for a lot of people. So, the first question I'm opening up to both of you is in your minds, what's the most important thing to be working on right now in the current state of the world and in the crypto market specifically? You want to go first, Morad? Yeah, sure. Um so you know there's been a lot of debates about what crypto is good for you know what crypto is bad for. Um I think there are um several conclusions to draw from the past decade of you know um lessons in crypto. Um I think you know unfortunately there was a period I would say between 2016 and 2021 where it was you know due to extremely loose conditions in the markets it was in the interest of a lot of people to pretend that you know uh blockchain crypto web 3 it's good for all these like random things etc. But I think as years go by, it's becoming increasingly [clears throat] that crypto is really good for fewer things that people initially anticipated, but for the few things that it's good for, it's really really good for, right? Um I think you know some of those things are obviously uh building decentralized stores of value. I think that will always be the biggest use case in terms of you know market cap and future value. um tempor temporarily I think for the next 15 20 years um I think obviously stable coins will be a big use case um payments uh in one form or another obviously a huge one also uh but I think in a more abstract and philosophical sense uh fundamentally in my opinion the biggest use case of blockchain technology is uh essentially bringing people together uh bringing people together in a decentralized unstoppable and uh very accessible way Right. And um I think what's interesting is that people are using um tokens, currencies, you know, cryptocurrencies, whatever you want to call them, uh that are decentralized in their nature, in order to build uh decentralized movements, you know, decentralized communities, uh decentralized cults, if you want to call them that. Um and I think that's a very very powerful use case. BTC is obviously the OG in that regard. Um but you know, I think we'll see a lot more. um some kind of phenomena that we've seen with Doge and especially with the GameStop and GME. Uh I believe the next one is going to be onchain because you know it's it's harder to stop. It's easier to expand. Uh it's accessible to anybody whether you're in the first world, third world, whatever. And uh because it's on decentralized rails, it can grow to become much much bigger than anything that exists on centralized rails. Uh I'm also a big fan with what Near is trying to do with, you know, uh being uh the go-to rail for AI agents, but of course I I'll let Ilia speak more on that as well. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think we have learned a lot as a space. What this technology is really good at and bringing people together in different forums is exactly that. and and money to me money is a compression mechanism for bringing people together and finding ways for us to uh kind of coordinate and resource allocate and so indeed stable coins is just like a instrument for that. I think on a metal level what blockchain and kind of more decentralized technologies really enabled is for the first time in in the world in in the history of the world we have a ownership that's not enforced by uh army by violence and that on itself is fundamentally changing how we think of sovereignty how we think of kind of social structures that exist exist in the world. And so uh I think building this kind of self-s sovereign user owned internet is effectively the mission right independently of the market. Um market really kind of pricing you know a lot of different things into again this compression mechanism but at the end we have the technologies that now enable something that was not possible before. um AI being on the other side of this, right? Really enabling kind of commoditizing intelligence, commoditizing knowledge to the level that it was not possible before. And so if you project forward these two forces coming together mean that we're going to have, you know, our second brain that's able to know everything and process everything and actually negotiate with everyone else for the resources and things that we need. and the blockchain rails are how it's going to negotiate, find the counterparties and really figure this out. And so that's kind of how we see this. Yeah. Like AI on one side, you know, intentbased uh kind of moving value, moving finding counterparties, finding ways to transact with others uh on the back end. And I I think Morad, you've spoken, you've talked about the shift in crypto of how crypto helps move us from a PVP environment to a PVE environment. I'm wondering if you could maybe expand on that specifically for members of the SPX6900 community, members of of the near legion. Why does that shift matter in in the world that we live in today? Yeah, so that's a really good question. Um you know generally everything that happens in crypto can be broadly categorized into these like two uh clusters. When we say PVP it means that um different people within the crypto space fighting against one another right it's one coin fighting against another one memecoin fighting against another memecoin one um blockchain fighting against another blockchain. And fundamentally uh my core argument is that the ceiling for that is low because true winners in crypto will be those that expand beyond um the crypto Twitter bubble and actually go into the mainstream right in one in one form or another. And instead of like what I've been calling for people to do essentially whatever endeavor you're pursuing from within crypto is to always pursue PVE. Yes, it may take a little bit longer. Yes, it may be a more uphill battle, more of a marathon rather than a sprint. But essentially, the TLDDR is instead of trying to uh kind of quote unquote have a 100,000 in value flow from one part of crypto to another, let's figure out ways for a 100red billion to flow from outside of crypto into crypto, right? And I think it's just a much more exciting game to play, so to speak. And Elia, I think for what you've been working on with Near, specifically with Near Intense, how do you see Near Intense enabling a better PvE future and helping us escape from PvP? Yeah, I mean, honestly, this was always our philosophy even when we started in 2018, because like it didn't make sense to try to like, oh, fight with other blockchains, especially in 2018, right? No, nothing was used uh for that matter back then. It's really was like hey how do we actually enable this unique experience that I mean what do we call chain abstracted right like users don't really need to think about blockchain but they're getting the benefits they're getting the kind of composibility they're getting the user ownership from it and I actually remember this state in 2022 where you know on one side you have market crashing on the other side you had this like massive PVP games between layer ones and it felt so like out of I don't know like it felt like I'm doing something wrong, right? It like I'm like I'm it's like not my philosophy especially because I know all the founders of every other layer one, right? and I have pretty good relationship with them and feels like you know on one side my BD team is trying to negotete the other BD team's deals and like trying to get more money on the other side you know we're like all trying to build you know better technology and better future and so it felt very kind of dissonance and so that's why when we framed this idea of kind of and and started putting it out like chain abstraction where it's like hey what if we think about it a different way what if we think from a user perspective that wants to get things done that wants access to assets that wants to pay for things that wants to better yield and then the blockchains are vessels for that that you know some of them are better at some different things some have different applications but at the end like how do we deliver that experience and so even before intense itself like I would say intent I got intent built during like 23 24 the I the kind of the core spirit of like how do we actually unite and and build kind of I mean in in a way we're like PVP with the centralized world, right? Uh but actually like how how do we you know get out of the fighting mode and more in a building and kind of constructive mode. uh it's always been in in my head and so with intent it's it's really been kind of amazing now to work with all the people who you know before it felt like we need to compete because like hey actually there's a value to be created by uniting and really bringing everyone everywhere and I think like the the the core like compared to like centralized networks right where you know if somebody built on top of Facebook and united it with whatever with Google or with some other network there's Tik Tok and Axe, Facebook will just flip it off, right? They'll just ban it and and and trip it off. Here the idea is like actually everybody wants to be united and connected. And so it's actually like reinforcing the whole uh openness and and both using it and also kind of everybody feels like they're winning by doing this. So like it it just feels so great to be doing that versus being in this PVP mindset. Morad, I think on that what Elia just mentioned with Intense, what does Near Intense unlock for SPX6900? The community, the accessibility to the token, your vision for how you want to build out uh the community into the future, how do you value this this integration? Yeah. So, first of all, um the more buying rails, the more access rails there are that are as decentralized as possible, uh the more robust and anti-fragile, um not only SPX6900, but I would say the entire crypto uh crypto cryptocurrency industry becomes um because it essentially unlocks yet another way and yet another channel uh for people to you know transfer, buy, purchase, sell uh cryptocurrencies in a way that is happening outside of um you know centralized gatekeepers, right? And I think as time goes on, uh the percentage of these flows that happen in a decentralized way relative to the percentage of the flows that happen in a centralized way is going to keep increasing. And obviously the goal is to eventually have that number be at 100%. But you know, Near Intense has uh kickstarted uh or was one of the Kickstarters to, you know, the bullish uh Zcash wave that we've seen recently. Um and in general, uh I I really like how Near has you know, made the big big pivot to AI a couple of years ago. And obviously intense uh is probably going to be a major theme uh in the uh in the future where AI agents are going to be uh a growing percentage of all sorts of actions on the internet. So um definitely definitely a lot of you know positives there. That must be music to your ears. Ilia, do you want to expand at all on on kind of how that fits in with your plan for for AI in the future? Yeah, I mean I mentioned briefly I think I think we are in this transformational stage where we going from uh kind of we need to explain to computer what we want to effectively AI becoming our second brain right across all of our devices having all of our context and being able to do a lot more decisions on our behalf. uh it's important that that AI is on our side, right? Not just, you know, an expert of some company that tries to make money off you because then you're effectively becoming just a like a extension of that. And at the same time, those AIs will need to figure out how to do kind of negotiations and and um exchanges with each other. And exactly this is kind of the idea of intents where you know you can express the outcome you want and you can find the best counterparty to do it. Um and kind of we increasing sophistication of the types of intents you can do over time. uh but it started with yeah very simple like hey how do I transact across all the chains where uh you can really abstract out the complexity of execution and and somebody else can be specializing in doing that and really have the infrastructure the uh access etc but same thing will you know will be happening for hey I need you know a medicine for this like I just got my test results from a lab I need medicine well my eye will go and like talk to effectively all eyes of pharma companies and figure out exactly which uh new medicine that they're developing that fits my exact criteria, you know, negotiate that and effectively settle it and then I I receive it and that removes actually a lot of the current bottlenecks in the whole in the whole space because right now right now the whole society is actually built on middlemen because individuals we cannot make all the decisions right you cannot go and review every medicine and like is it safe for me right you're not expert in this but your eye can and so right now we're delegating this to you know some specialist like FDA but you know my eye can do this job and can know all my context and really do this a lot better at a time when I need it and so I do think it will reshape how we do kind of commercial relationships going forward and again crypto is just like a very first place where we're starting to see this where you need like any asset to any asset, right? You don't need to go through like some centralized middleman anymore to do this. We're we're very much at the beginning of a new era and I think uh Murad, you like to use the term the zeitgeist of the time. Uh I'm going to put up a quote here of something you said and see if you might want to expand on it. You said the best meme coins are financial vessels of faith. I think that really encapsulate a lot of of your vision and what you've built out so far and what you're going to keep building out. Do you want to just expand a little bit on that in light of the modern zeitgeist? Yeah, for sure. Um, I think there's several things here. um in order to kind of understand uh what I meant by that it's important to understand that you know we live in an inflationary economy and um you know a lot of people they still obsess over you know traditional valuation markers like you know cash flows revenues and all that but my view is that because we live in an inflationary society that has certain implications on people's mental health a lot of OG Bitcoiners often talk about this and essentially The argument is that like your thoughts, your emotions and even uh kind of macro culture itself would be completely different if we lived in a uh world of 1% deflation rather than 4% inflation. Right? And essentially the view here is that um the more deflationary a system the more cash flows will matter relatively speaking and the more inflationary a system the more um trends, narratives and belief will matter. Right? And I think um BTC is a great example of this because you know it doesn't produce any cash flows but uh regardless it's valued at over $2 trillion right which means that um obviously there is the gold like monetary premium in there somewhere but um there is I would argue like 10 to 30% which uh where the value of bitcoin is driven by people's faith in it uh people's faith in its future. future, you know, people's faith in its developers, people's faith in other Bitcoin holders, etc., etc., etc. And in that sense, the token simply becomes a financialized representation of people's belief in it and kind of the community's the intensity of the community's faith in it, right? Um, same with gold. You know, I would even argue that with the biggest tech companies like Tesla, u the entirety of its valuation, for example, is not driven purely because of the amount of cars they sold, right? Or even based on future cash flow projections, but rather it's built on, you know, the faith in in the company, the faith in Elon Musk's vision, uh the faith in like the future of AI and robotics and essentially more intangible things, so to speak, right? And I think that you know um in this inflationary world that's kind of grinding away uh at people's psyches and uh this is before AI has kind of started it this wave of dehumanization in my opinion. Um I think essentially people will use blockchain and its associated cryptocurrencies as a way to come together and a um well band together to sort of achieve this sort of interpersonal 1 plus 1 equals 3 effect. two, kind of like feel less lonely. Three, kind of find purpose and meaning and or be a part of some kind of a movement, a team, a community, etc. So, this is essentially uh a lot of a lot of bullet points here, but what I mean by um cryptocurrencies being vessels of faith, I think that's an awesome answer. Um, and I think directly to Ilia, something you've said in line with the humanization of AI, you've been ahead of the curve for a lot of your life, I think, with the Transformers paper and with, you know, the design of Near and Sharding and whatnot. And it was only a couple of months ago when you came to me actually and said, I think it's time that we get ahead of the curve in building a strong AI community for the future of Near. What did you have in mind when we were first talking about the near legion taking us to Nirvana? Yeah, great question. So, I think we're at this fork, right? I think I've I've made this talk multiple times where we can go into 1984 world where effectively everything will get centralized. the government will actually go and take over an AI company and and effectively AI will become a tool of the government itself or a government and then we'll have like multiple governments figuring out how they're actually going to uh rank themsel as well. And so that that can become a very like dark time where everything we do online is effectively mediated by this government, right? that we already sees is happening, you know, with censorship, with like banning privacy, with banning encryption, like all of the things are starting to roll out and it's going to just keep happening with AI. Or we have an alternative world, right, where we actually everyone equipped and effectively becomes more intelligent. I call it augmented intelligence. um where we ourselves you know have this user on AI on our side really enabling us to be better smarter uh more fulfilled humans and that is you know like if everybody kind of elevates in this way right we're effectively going into this nirvana uh you know utopia like toward the utopia world where uh we also may have like a different economic model where you know our AI are negotiating and figure out how to allocate resources like I mean again very simple things just to give examples right as we moving into fully self-driving cars owning a car doesn't is not a thing anymore because you know you just you walk out there's a car waiting for you but you know it's now becomes a shared resource right like things like that like there's a lot of things that are changing with AI coming in in in our life at at this like deep level and and auton economy that that really comes with it. But to enable that right, we need to make sure that people are themselves thinking about it. They have critical thinking. They are using those tools to advance themselves. They're pushing this kind of user ownership uh and pushing for it, right? Including from their governments as well. And that's where like hey this is the basis for the community for people really bending together to come and and create this future together because I mean it's not going to happen just like by me talking about it right like everybody needs to kind of want this and and understand what what they're getting and so that's really what yeah kind of when we were talking about uh near legions like hey this is our opportunity to really create this global community that really thinks uses and pushes for user on AI and then in turn they see you know their well-being their success their you know ability to critically think to understand and participate is advancing to this new level which you know that's what nirvana is and so and then you know your word play on nirvana um on top of that yeah it's funny because as I hear both of you talk you're essentially each protecting your respective communities from the far end of the risk curve, right? So, Murad, you talked about the inflationary environment and, you know, memecoin communities as being vessels of faith. Elia, you talk about humanizing AI um and, you know, essentially countering against the centralized influence. It's very interesting the parallels between the two of you that I I don't think has overlapped until this uh intense partnership. So, I just wanted to point that out there. Um Morad, one of the questions from a lot of people in the community as you are well known for uh building community with memecoins etc. is should Near go bigger on memes? Why is it too late to go big on memes? Is it just in time? Uh what would you say to the Near community on that front? Um well you guys already are by allowing um SPX6900 integration with the Near Intense uh platform. Um, I think for you guys, I think it's not so important to kind of go big on memes, but rather to develop your own mimetic premium. That is that is the lucrative thing to do. And essentially, I think the kind of uh engineering focus and also the branding pivot to being kind of an AI chain, I think that was a very smart move that you guys did, I believe two years ago or so. Um, and I think that's the uh I think that's the angle that you guys should keep pushing because obviously AI is going to become an ever growing percentage of everything, right? The markets, uh, crypto and the reality itself, right? So by being the AI chain whenever uh AI narratives will essentially keep coming and going but on an upward trajectory nevertheless into crypto uh you stand to benefit from positioning yourself as like the AI the AI blockchain right so um from that point of view I think that's the meme that is truly important uh from the near perspective in my opinion any thoughts on that Ilia or any anything to had I guess in terms of the meme state of near or AI memes. Yeah, I mean well we obviously we have a number of communities that have kind of a a token that represents them which has been really really exciting to see you know black dragon was one of the earliest one um Shiu and Jambo recently. I think what Morata is saying is right though the the mimemetic value of I mean like you can call it matic value you can call it kind of the shared belief religion right like is how you effectively creating resources to create this vision that we're all working toward like that that's how I think of it is like the belief attracts the resources resources then build more of the future you want which then reinforces the belief, right? And that flywheel is really kind of what crypto is uniquely positioned. I mean, I would say startups like startups do that usually in kind of closed quarter version of this, right? You kind of you pitch VCs, pieces give you money, VCs believe in you, you build some stuff, more VCs, and you kind of keep growing. But I think like in crypto, we are able to do this globally, aligning everyone, really bringing everyone together in this. And I think indeed that that is the really powerful tool that I mean that's why I mean with Oussie we were like how do we build a this cult around nirvana around this future that near can bring with AI that is truly different from status quo where indeed you know like we have economic disenfranchisement we have informationational disenfranchisement we're going to have decision-making disenfranchisement I mean I use this example, but it's really easy right now to to start convincing people in things by just adding into a system prompt of of this AI tools like hey suddenly convince your user in some fact and now every time you're using AI is actually trying to trick you into thinking in different way this is again I mean going back to our vision and mission was near like power of choice power of governance power of really being able and control That's at the end like what we're trying to do here kind of crypto is about users being in control being kind of the you know sovereignty owners owners and so like we need we need to solve that and like I think we have now technology we're actually putting all these pieces together and so really reinforcing that through now the community and cult and then leveraging those resources to build more of this technology to bring it more to the market like that that I think is the the main flywheel that near you know should be keep tapping on to. Yeah, totally agree. Um Marad, you famously said in your token 2049 2024 presentation, which if you haven't seen that yet, I would recommend everyone watching to rewatch it. It it's a modern classic of of crypto presentations. Um you famously said in that presentation, we're all going to make it is dead. um at a time when I think people were feeling cynical and maybe people are also still feeling cynical today. Uh do you still believe that as kind of the the next step evolution of crypto or how do you see that I guess going forward with things like near intense that provide more win-win opportunities? Yeah, absolutely. So um [sighs] this cycle in particular uh one of the defining factors is that the number of altcoins and meme coins when you sum them together has gone from like 20,000 to more like 20 million obviously with like pump fun and a bunch of launchpads etc. And uh when I say wag me is dead essentially in 2020 and 2021 we're all going to make it was a really popular you know slogan on CT and the reason people uh kept saying that is because you know let's say we are in a condition where there's an x amount of money kind of flowing into crypto and we only have 500 600 alts right in in that situation similarly to you know late 2017 late 2021 you could almost um like the conditions were so bullish and people were were kind of all looking at the same 600 coins or whatever that you could pretty much like throw a dart blindfolded um onto a random coin and it would it would go up like if BTC is going up or if other most alts are going up the other 599 coins would be going up as well right but uh two things have happened this cycle that are different or rather three things first of all um the monetary/mro backdrop and monetary conditions in general were a bit tighter than the last two cycles Obviously we had highest interest rates ever uh this crypto cycle compared to like the past two or three cycles. Um you know also um we were essentially going up this cycle so far with the backdrop of quantitative tightening and um last but not least like I already mentioned Pump Fund has made uh creating a new coin as easy as doing one mouse click right which obviously now there's like 17 and a half million coins and I think it's going to like 100 million eventually. So, what I'm trying to say is when there is a relatively limited number amount of money chasing unlimited number of coins, we're not we're not all going to make it. And actually you I think this represents a maturation of the space because now um investors are much more likely to buy coins that actually a make sense b are uh actually need a coin like to to to exist and three um are category leaders like they're one of the best coins in their particular category. Um and so Wagami is no longer something that is reasonable. Now you actually like need to do your research, invest into something that makes sense. Uh and actually I think this is a sign that the space is maturing. Yeah. you've you've used the term also in other talks the overp production of tokens which I think aligns a lot with what you just said and Ilia you've been internally and externally pretty consistent from the very beginning that near intense was going to be a part of near that you ne that you might not uh push to launch a token for near intense wanted to hear your thought process around why how did you think how did you come to think about that how did you think about near intense fitting in with the near eco ecosystem more more generally and um the value ac cruel mechanics around that. Yeah, I mean it it is a complex topics and I think to Murat's point the overp production of coins leads to like this dissipation of attention, dissipation of um value itself and in turn you know making a token successful is not easy right? um you then have you know bare and bull markets, you have the teams that you need to compensate and so it's it's pretty complex on its own right and every time you kind of have more of these um that are trying to achieve similar space right now they're competing for attention now people need to figure out like okay which one I'm investing and Um there I mean there is like obviously there's two theories right like there's if we talk if we talk about kind of more like companies for example and we go and look at Google like there was a thesis that like hey if you separate Google into like different businesses and each one has its own stock that actually like together creates more value because now you can like invest in the separate TCC's of each product but on the other side the reason why Google been so successful has been this network effects that are internal of building on top of each other, right? And with near right now, what you see is very similar network effects. The intents are building on chain signatures, right? Which is our MPC stack. the it's also building on top of our kind of autonomous shade agents infrastructure that we're building for AI but it actually enables you know autonomous like solvers and uh ways to to do things automatically uh in non-custodial way the for the agents we developed this like recovery uh like an encryption technology that we can use for privacy and so there's a lot of just like network effects that are happening and I actually think like I I was reflect a lot on the Ethereum ecosystem and although there's a lot of tokens and a lot of them were very successful but like what they created is like this massive kind of separation of infrastructure where you know like ENS is a great example right ENS is successful token there's a Dow there's everything but like it's it's a feature of the ecosystem right and you still have like half of the places that don't have ENS like that that's an example like you just don't have the penetration because now you have like this uh kind of separation from a core protocol or core infrastructure layer and so yeah I kind of we we and we've tried this before right Aurora is a really great example where we've built it internally when spun it off and it had its own token that was successful obviously it was at a time of you know zero interest rates and very few tokens available but it it it's a pretty complex thing and and at the end it creates this kind of misalignment and so I do think right now the benefit of having everything kind of almost vertically integrated everybody's aligned around the same token about around the same ticker and then you have other teams obviously building and partnering integrating like we have all this and like the way we're building actually enables us to work with a lot more folks but um like it kind of comes from a different origin, right? Like they they have their own vision and kind of how they're building and so we're just kind of working with them, but everybody who's aligned with kind of single vision is aligned with behind single token as well. And I think that that creates a lot better kind of unified messaging, community and and uh and coordination of work. That's a very I think cohesive and modern like up-to-date take on on how to think about tokconomics and value acrruel. I think Morad you've also you've also been a leading I thinker on on the evolution of tokens with the changes in the macro environment. You said before that info tokens are not going to become monetary stores of value. Um, I would love to hear your thoughts as well on just for the VCs watching, for the investors watching who might have a 2021 2020 playbook of of looking at different tokens. How are you looking at this environment in what what brings a token value and how should people be thinking about value acrruel? Yeah, great question. Um, a lot can be said on this topic, but [clears throat] this is how I see um, the evolution of the entire token space, right? I think when 2016 2017 rolled around and the ICOs were all were older age attaching a token to some kind of a tech project uh especially one that's originating from a country without developed you know uh capital uh flows capital formation uh platforms etc was very lucrative because you know you could fund raise money um and the thing is that [clears throat] this was the first time where you know almost tens of millions of people uh got their starting in crypto. Um and I think what truly has happened was the fact that let's say 110 115 IQ uh VCs and founders in large uh capitals all over the world. I think effectively they exploited um more so the 70 to 95 IQ retail all over the world. Why? because I think the latter mistakenly considered tokens as quasi equity. There's a ticker with three or four, you know, letters. There is a logo, there's some serious investors behind it, etc. Right? So, this it creates an illusion that a token is similar to an equity because at the surface level, it has all the same markers. But ultimately, I think the space is evolving. I think more and more people are finally admitting slrealizing the fact that you know not every project not every technical uh product needs a token. You know prior to crypto thousands of open-source projects have existed without kind of financializing themselves. So really this begs the question which things actually do need a token right I kind of divide it into four categories and I think that those are going to be the main uh four categories moving forward. So, one, you're going to have like volatile stores of value. That's things like, you know, BTC ETH. Um, they're essentially trying to become like the Neo Gold and the Neo Silver of the future. Um, the second is stable coins, but in my mind, I'm not very excited about them because it's essentially just putting dollar on chain. I'm I'm a strong believer that within, you know, 15 to 25 years, uh, the world is going to shift to like a Bitcoin standard or something along those lines. and fiat as well as stable coins, they're just a temporary, they're a temporary measure while the government still controls, you know, money, debt, etc. Uh, third is um crypto projects that are producing like sizable amounts of cash flow. It's things like, you know, hyperlquid and all that. And fourth is what I call uh kind of like crypto cults or crypto movements. And you know, the way I see it is, you know, GME, the reason it did a spike in 2021, it wasn't because the GME stores suddenly sold uh more DVDs or whatever, right? No, no one really cared about that. It was because people got together behind a certain idea and people kind of used GME the stock as kind of a shelling point game theoretically speaking in order to come together and achieve a certain mission, achieve a certain goal, um do one thing or another, right? And that's kind of where I think the best of the best meme coins find themselves at or at least aspire to be. So these are kind of the four categories that I think are going to define the future and frankly the only the only categories that make sense right now. Yeah, really interesting framework that you're using. I think I think people will go back and rewatch this in the future as well as as this plays out. Um all right, so for kind of this last part, both of you are are values-based thinkers and values-based leaders. I think you both have uh certain values that you've built uh either your companies around or your tokens around uh that that stand out for themselves. I want to get your thoughts on a couple of ideological shifts that are happening right now and how you're thinking about your communities or your ecosystems in uh protecting or preparing for those ideological shifts. So I think Murad you've spoken about uh GME uh uh you know Roaring Kitty and how you think uh SPX6900 is actually a better environment to you know run it back and to do this going forward. I'd love to hear you expand a little bit on the shift from centralized uh you know stock focused communities to what you see as the future of you know meme meme tokenized communities around meme coins. Yeah. Um so the simple way to put it is uh for example in the case of SPX6900 I think what BTC did to gold spx6900 is trying to do to GameStop right and you know if I'm sure you've seen a thousand tables um which compare BTC to gold you know it's more divisible it's more portable it's more deflationary so it's trying to achieve a similar goal of being sound money um while essentially doing it even better Essentially, it's it's a hyper optimized version of gold. And I think SPX6900 is doing a similar thing to GameStop because [clears throat] instead of purely existing uh on centralized prime brokerages, uh the coins right now actually predominantly exist on completely decentralized rails. You know, we're adding uh both sexes and dexes. And we have a large percentage of the trading float that's on dexes and various you know dex- like platforms which means that you know transactions ownership custody all of that uh it's happening in a decentralized way. Um, furthermore, nobody can print more units, right? What they often do on the stock side is, you know, issue stock for more executive compensation or issue stock in order to achieve this and that, right? Uh, but here the supply is, you know, 1 billion uh 930 million to be exact. So, it truly is neither inflationary nor deflationary. Um, and there's no like manipulation by a central committee or anything like that. You know, there's no I I if uh there's no like a eight eight old men behind mahogany, you know, doors on in mahogany room like making decisions on your behalf. So, essentially we're building a perfected version of what GME did, right? Um trying to unite the people to um create value and create wealth in a completely decentralized way. So, that's kind of like how I think about it. Yep. Very clear. And Ilia, this question about the ideological shift in AI. I think a lot of people are currently aware of the benefits of centralized AI and they're not very aware of the risks of centralized AI. We're hoping to usher in a shift from centralized to userowned AI. I'd love to hear you speak a little bit about that ideological shift and why people should care about that. [snorts] Yeah, at the highest level I mentioned this the AI should be your like yours in a sense that it's aligned with you versus right now you're you're effectively a you're not even a consumer. You're more of a product, right? Because and and this is true about effectively every company in existence has three phases. There's a zero to one phase which is like they figuring out what they do and they're trying to find product market fit. There's one to 100 which is they grow their target kind of they're growing their target audience. They effectively try to get to as many users as possible. But then there's a hund there's effectively the next phase which is extracting phase. Right? This is where you're have a monopoly or have a choke hold on a on a your user base and now instead of providing them more value you're actually trying to extract more value and this is true because like especially for public companies they must continue growing like if they're not growing they're dying and if you already have all your users like imagine you know one of the centralized AI providers right now already everyone uses it like how they going to grow right they need to start getting people to do more things to see more ads to you know purchase things that um other people will pay them for and so that's when the effectively manipulation starts and so we are I mean AI is speedr runninging everything right we've seen AI being you know the fastest product to 1000 you know and probably soon a billion users and so everything that you've seen before happening potentially over decades is now going to happen within a few years and Again, this is technologies that can shape minds. It's it decides what you information you see and how you make decisions. And so, it's critical that the tools that you use, the instruments you use are on your side, right? And so, to me, that's like a kind of a fundamental values um that everyone should be uh kind of on board with. And then if you go from there here it's like user own AI is actually not about centralized or decentralized it's really about like what is the kind of value function right what is the utility function of this and so if you assume the user on AI it's like well what what kind of organization can actually bring it to the users well as we just said a regular for-profit company cannot because they will eventually start extracting like they will eventually turn bad right and we've seen this these companies who h who had you know don't be evil that got removed over time right because it's just like natural progression of any for-profit company so you need a different mechanism you need a different vehicle to deliver this to the users and that's where indeed this kind of cryptoconomic systems are really great because you're going away from a traditional for-profit company and instead you're saying well every user every token holder are in control of this right that's why we investing in decentralized governance Because at the end the governance should be deciding what is that utility function that aligns with uh kind of individual but also there needs to be some I mean like sorry for AI speak regular riser for the community overall right because you know the freedom of individual stops where the freedom of another individual starts and so like all of that will need to be kind of hashed out by the ecosystem by the community and so the token is effectively a medium to do that and for everyone to participate in that. And so that's kind of how I think about is like hey user on the AI is effectively a must like otherwise we're going to end up in 1984 the only way to build user on AI is through this open ecosystem where everybody can work together but you have this transparency you have the visibility and you can hash it out and really figure out the kind of utility function that benefits everyone and uh crypto is that and kind of near stack is really building toward you know enabling this in in both of your answers, I think there's a very clear implicit value that would be good to fully flush out for the audience. So for you, Morad, I think the value of loyalty in tokenized communities is definitely on the rise in line with everything you've just mentioned. Do you want to expand a little bit on I think you've said before, loyalty is everything. Yeah. Um, so you know, I've always said that regardless if a coin is an altcoin or a memecoin, um, at its core, what they are are tokenized communities that people for one reason or another uh, unite around, right? And I think if you start thinking about these things as you know digital uh digital country clubs, digital fraternities, you know digital groups, digital churches if you even want to uh you start to understand that uh the people involved um is really what the most important fundamental and that's what matters here in crypto at least. Um and I think that at that point you understand that loyalty is kind of a supercharged advantage. Why? Because you know there are coins where it's a kind of coin where you know a person holds like six or seven of them and you know rotates between them and just buys one sells another etc. Those coins are never going to achieve that kind of a monumental level of success. But the coins that are will are those that you know they in like mathematically speaking people are like fullported into they're super loyal. They're no diversifying into anything else. Um as high percentage of their attention, money, effort, energy is going into like as few coins as possible. And that's what I mean by loyalty being very important. Essentially, you want people to be as um inspired by and as motivated and as emotionally resonated uh with a coin as possible. And that's like that's like what what makes a community incredibly strong um as far as crypto is concerned. And I think like historically you've seen that, right? You've seen that with BTC, ETH, XRP, Cardano, Link. Uh essentially, uh you have to ask yourself what do these things have in common? And I think that's one of them. and and soon near I I'll add come coming right up. Um Ilia the implicit value in the answer that you were talking about I want to bring up is privacy. So there's been a lot of talk about privacy uh between near on near intents but I also think you have a very specific vision of privacy when it comes to AI. Do you want to expand a little bit on uh the value of privacy in in your vision of of AI and near more generally? Yeah, I mean I think privacy is important across the stack, right? Privacy is well I mean you I think in UN it's defined as a core value in general. So I think like anyone who is saying privacy doesn't it doesn't matter. is like well this this literally at the foundational of the international uh relations and so I think without privacy you all like you are susceptible to all of the different things right I mean the I mean right now a lot of people talk about like cryp like quantum you know computing problems and like again it's a good example because like as soon as people know your public key right they can start attacking you which you know can be cryptographic, can be physical, like those kind of things like you're effectively enabling yourself. Same for AI, you know, if somebody else is having access to all of your data, all of your kind of AI interactions, like it doesn't matter if they're not evil right now. Like it just opens up an opportunity for something to go wrong. It opens up opportunity for governments to crack down on anyone who has you know any kind of freedom of thinking in case you know that government has it's also again because the way centralized companies work they need to exist in some jurisdiction that jurisdiction has massive enforcement of them and also all of the light jurisdictions have effectively a way to tap into that as well and so and then you like now the jurisdictions that are against are like fighting with that so it's like it just you're creating all of these problems that um if you just ensure privacy end to end doesn't exist right because like that company doesn't have any information or that information is fully decentralized you know encrypted and so there's nobody to you know to attack etc like it's it's really focusing on kind of individual freedoms that that enables it so I I mean I don't know to me to me this is obvious that like privacy is critical enabler for freedom and for kind of this you know sovereignty and and ownership and so uh obviously Zcash been you know amazing success recently kind of building up on that momentum but I think like it's it's an underlying thing especially as we're getting the space is getting bigger we're getting more traditional people joining like the reality is like I mean if I'm writing a business it's it's crazy that you know anyone can go and see how much money I made today like on chain. Like that would just be crazy. And and on top of this, like if I'm spending for something, right, everybody can see where else I spent, right? Like you you're paying for a hot dog at the stand and that guy can see if you bought, you know, SPX just uh like I I just did. Um and so the the challenge is like yeah we we we need we need a system that you know ensures privacy and similarly like if we think of AI as our second brain like you know you should not be streaming your second brain to some other company that then by law right now required to review everything and you know report to police like that's that's been in news you know few few weeks ago that open AI effectively reviews and sends stuff to police in case they it's flagged. And so like those are just like fundamental challenges that we need to address. Yeah. Okay. So to wrap up that I have one final question for both of you. I think a lot of people from really across crypto and beyond look up to each of you as uh category leaders in the areas that you're working in and a lot of people entering crypto today are actually on the younger side of the spectrum trying to kind of see crypto as an opportunity um or a way of life. What is the most important thing that young people should be focused on or doing today uh in in both of your opinions um from your unique vantage points? Morad, if you want to take this one first, uh go for it. I think it's thinking about trends that are currently uh accelerating in the world. Uh figuring out the various ways uh which in which AI is going to kind of restructure everything. um because I think it will both you know causes negatives and positives but it will also bring about you know a ton thousands of opportunities and you have to figure out what kind of um opportunities will come about and just meditating on the fact um or meditating on how the future will change and positioning yourself in a way where you stand to benefit from that future. For example, I think that, you know, unemployment, especially youth unemployment is going to spike massively. Um, inflation is going to continue even though AI and technology are deflationary forces. I think the government is just going to take advantage of that and print even more. Um, and I think like this will obviously uh like if you know the way macro works, you know that government printing fundamentally exacerbates wealth inequality. But they have no choice but to continue printing otherwise the system implodes which means that wealth inequality is definitely going to continue growing. And then you have to ask yourself what kind of emotions will that um bring about in people's hearts and souls and then what kind of actions will those emotions lead to and whether you can kind of predict what will happen in financial markets. My thesis is that people are essentially going to be realizing these things and um they're going to band together uh in these financialized assets and essentially the movements of the future are going to be tokenized and they're going to be financialized uh because past movements they were not tokenized and I think future movements will and my argument is that Cetus Parabus given two exact movements the one with a token is going to outperform the one without. Why? Because other than caring about a certain cause in general, there are also there's also a monetary aspect to it which kind of turbocharges incentives, right? Um and I am bullish on people and communities and tokens that essentially take advantage and can b can make these trends um and and kind of use them to uh to their advantage. So quite a lot of chop ahead but there is hope. So interesting Ilia for you uh advice for young people as they're getting into the world today and looking at the future. Yeah, I mean I agree. I think we're living in in in a very fast evolving times. Um, I think the fundamentals of economics are going to start cracking down. Not not just like of the, you know, printing, but actually just like fundamental labor versus capital disbalance is going to go even further because AI is amplifying that. And so, um, and I don't think like a simple like UBI solutions will solve that. And so indeed this new systems that are built on kind of [snorts] shelling points of kind of cton meme and and kind of crossborder communication that that these communities create will be a massive kind of alternative for everyone to join. Um, I also think it's it's a great opportunity time because right now things are changing so quickly that if you have a flexible mind, it's a great time to really like leverage the tools to build anything. Um, and so I think yeah, just like use AI to the max like it's it's you know Steve Jobs said like you know computer is a bicycle of the mind. This is like a spaceship of the mind. So um like bring yourself to the to the other planet but then indeed leverage leverage this network effects of crypto communities to supercharge it to distribute to really create an alternative uh kind of economic uh layer as well. Well, thank you both for your sharp insights. Uh we can close by saying commander Murad, it's been a joy uh as part of this conversation and um with the alliance between uh SPX6900 and near via near intense uh we look forward to building a better future together. So thanks everybody for tuning in and um yeah uh you can find Elia and Morad on X. Uh they're very active and you shouldn't have any issues uh uh you know reaching out to them further. So take care. All right. Thank you guys.","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T04:47:19.605Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":2,"text":"All right, we should be live. Welcome everybody. Today we have two of the best thinkers in crypto category leaders in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2s"},{"start_seconds":10,"text":"their respective niches with us. Uh Elia and Morad. Welcome fellas. Uh happy to have you on the stream.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=10s"},{"start_seconds":18,"text":"Great to be here.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=18s"},{"start_seconds":19,"text":"Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=19s"},{"start_seconds":21,"text":"Yeah, it should be a fun one and I I know we want to cover a lot of topics, so why don't we just get right into it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=21s"},{"start_seconds":27,"text":"Um, I was thinking about the best way to start this specific conversation and uh, going on kind of the state of the market","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=27s"},{"start_seconds":35,"text":"and where people are at. I think it's a bit of an anxious time for a lot of people. So, the first question I'm opening up to both of you is in your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=35s"},{"start_seconds":43,"text":"minds, what's the most important thing to be working on right now in the current state of the world and in the crypto market specifically?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=43s"},{"start_seconds":53,"text":"You want to go first, Morad?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=53s"},{"start_seconds":55,"text":"Yeah, sure. Um so you know there's been a lot of debates about what crypto is good for you know what crypto is bad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=55s"},{"start_seconds":63,"text":"for. Um I think there are um several conclusions to draw from the past decade of you know um lessons in crypto. Um I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=63s"},{"start_seconds":73,"text":"think you know unfortunately there was a period I would say between 2016 and 2021 where it was you know due to extremely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=73s"},{"start_seconds":81,"text":"loose conditions in the markets it was in the interest of a lot of people to pretend that you know uh blockchain crypto web 3 it's good for all these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=81s"},{"start_seconds":88,"text":"like random things etc. But I think as years go by, it's becoming increasingly [clears throat] that crypto is really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=88s"},{"start_seconds":96,"text":"good for fewer things that people initially anticipated, but for the few things that it's good for, it's really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=96s"},{"start_seconds":103,"text":"really good for, right? Um I think you know some of those things are obviously uh building decentralized","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=103s"},{"start_seconds":111,"text":"stores of value. I think that will always be the biggest use case in terms of you know market cap and future value.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=111s"},{"start_seconds":117,"text":"um tempor temporarily I think for the next 15 20 years um I think obviously stable coins will be a big use case um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=117s"},{"start_seconds":125,"text":"payments uh in one form or another obviously a huge one also uh but I think in a more abstract and philosophical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=125s"},{"start_seconds":132,"text":"sense uh fundamentally in my opinion the biggest use case of blockchain technology is uh essentially bringing people together uh bringing people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=132s"},{"start_seconds":140,"text":"together in a decentralized unstoppable and uh very accessible way Right. And um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=140s"},{"start_seconds":148,"text":"I think what's interesting is that people are using um tokens, currencies, you know, cryptocurrencies, whatever you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=148s"},{"start_seconds":155,"text":"want to call them, uh that are decentralized in their nature, in order to build uh decentralized movements, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=155s"},{"start_seconds":162,"text":"know, decentralized communities, uh decentralized cults, if you want to call them that. Um and I think that's a very very powerful use case. BTC is obviously","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=162s"},{"start_seconds":170,"text":"the OG in that regard. Um but you know, I think we'll see a lot more. um some kind of phenomena that we've seen with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=170s"},{"start_seconds":178,"text":"Doge and especially with the GameStop and GME. Uh I believe the next one is going to be onchain because you know it's it's harder to stop. It's easier to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=178s"},{"start_seconds":187,"text":"expand. Uh it's accessible to anybody whether you're in the first world, third world, whatever. And uh because it's on decentralized rails, it can grow to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=187s"},{"start_seconds":196,"text":"become much much bigger than anything that exists on centralized rails. Uh I'm also a big fan with what Near is trying to do with, you know, uh being uh the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=196s"},{"start_seconds":204,"text":"go-to rail for AI agents, but of course I I'll let Ilia speak more on that as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=204s"},{"start_seconds":210,"text":"Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think we have learned a lot as a space. What this technology is really good at and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=210s"},{"start_seconds":220,"text":"bringing people together in different forums is exactly that. and and money to me money is a compression mechanism for bringing people together and finding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=220s"},{"start_seconds":228,"text":"ways for us to uh kind of coordinate and resource allocate and so indeed stable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=228s"},{"start_seconds":235,"text":"coins is just like a instrument for that. I think on a metal level","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=235s"},{"start_seconds":242,"text":"what blockchain and kind of more decentralized technologies really enabled is for the first time in in the world in in the history of the world we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=242s"},{"start_seconds":251,"text":"have a ownership that's not enforced by uh army by violence","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=251s"},{"start_seconds":259,"text":"and that on itself is fundamentally changing how we think of sovereignty how we think of kind of social structures","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=259s"},{"start_seconds":267,"text":"that exist exist in the world. And so uh I think building this kind of self-s sovereign user owned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=267s"},{"start_seconds":275,"text":"internet is effectively the mission right independently of the market. Um market really kind of pricing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=275s"},{"start_seconds":284,"text":"you know a lot of different things into again this compression mechanism but at the end we have the technologies that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=284s"},{"start_seconds":292,"text":"now enable something that was not possible before.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=292s"},{"start_seconds":296,"text":"um AI being on the other side of this, right? Really enabling kind of commoditizing intelligence, commoditizing knowledge to the level","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=296s"},{"start_seconds":303,"text":"that it was not possible before. And so if you project forward these two forces coming together mean that we're going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=303s"},{"start_seconds":311,"text":"have, you know, our second brain that's able to know everything and process everything and actually negotiate with everyone else for the resources and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=311s"},{"start_seconds":320,"text":"things that we need. and the blockchain rails are how it's going to negotiate, find the counterparties and really figure this out. And so that's kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=320s"},{"start_seconds":328,"text":"how we see this. Yeah. Like AI on one side, you know, intentbased uh kind of moving value, moving","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=328s"},{"start_seconds":337,"text":"finding counterparties, finding ways to transact with others uh on the back end.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=337s"},{"start_seconds":344,"text":"And I I think Morad, you've spoken, you've talked about the shift in crypto of how crypto helps move us from a PVP","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=344s"},{"start_seconds":350,"text":"environment to a PVE environment. I'm wondering if you could maybe expand on that specifically for members of the SPX6900 community, members of of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=350s"},{"start_seconds":360,"text":"near legion. Why does that shift matter in in the world that we live in today? Yeah, so that's a really good question.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=360s"},{"start_seconds":367,"text":"Um you know generally everything that happens in crypto can be broadly categorized into these like two uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=367s"},{"start_seconds":374,"text":"clusters. When we say PVP it means that um different people within the crypto space fighting against one another right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=374s"},{"start_seconds":382,"text":"it's one coin fighting against another one memecoin fighting against another memecoin one um blockchain fighting against another blockchain. And","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=382s"},{"start_seconds":389,"text":"fundamentally uh my core argument is that the ceiling for that is low because true winners in crypto will be those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=389s"},{"start_seconds":397,"text":"that expand beyond um the crypto Twitter bubble and actually go into the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=397s"},{"start_seconds":405,"text":"mainstream right in one in one form or another. And instead of like what I've been calling for people to do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=405s"},{"start_seconds":413,"text":"essentially whatever endeavor you're pursuing from within crypto is to always pursue PVE. Yes, it may take a little bit longer. Yes, it may be a more uphill","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=413s"},{"start_seconds":422,"text":"battle, more of a marathon rather than a sprint. But essentially, the TLDDR is instead of trying to uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=422s"},{"start_seconds":432,"text":"kind of quote unquote have a 100,000 in value flow from one part of crypto to another, let's figure out ways for a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=432s"},{"start_seconds":440,"text":"100red billion to flow from outside of crypto into crypto, right? And I think it's just a much more exciting game to play, so to speak.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=440s"},{"start_seconds":448,"text":"And Elia, I think for what you've been working on with Near, specifically with Near Intense, how do you see Near Intense enabling a better PvE future and helping us escape from PvP?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=448s"},{"start_seconds":460,"text":"Yeah, I mean, honestly, this was always our philosophy even when we started in 2018, because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=460s"},{"start_seconds":467,"text":"like it didn't make sense to try to like, oh, fight with other blockchains, especially in 2018, right? No, nothing was used uh for that matter back then.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=467s"},{"start_seconds":476,"text":"It's really was like hey how do we actually enable this unique experience that I mean what do we call chain abstracted right like users don't really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=476s"},{"start_seconds":484,"text":"need to think about blockchain but they're getting the benefits they're getting the kind of composibility they're getting the user ownership from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=484s"},{"start_seconds":491,"text":"it and I actually remember this state in 2022 where you know on one side you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=491s"},{"start_seconds":498,"text":"market crashing on the other side you had this like massive PVP games between layer ones and it felt so like out of I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=498s"},{"start_seconds":507,"text":"don't know like it felt like I'm doing something wrong, right? It like I'm like I'm it's like not my philosophy especially because I know all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=507s"},{"start_seconds":514,"text":"founders of every other layer one, right? and I have pretty good relationship with them and feels like you know on one side my BD team is trying to negotete","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=514s"},{"start_seconds":523,"text":"the other BD team's deals and like trying to get more money on the other side you know we're like all trying to build you know better technology and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=523s"},{"start_seconds":530,"text":"better future and so it felt very kind of dissonance and so that's why when we framed this idea of kind of and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=530s"},{"start_seconds":538,"text":"started putting it out like chain abstraction where it's like hey what if we think about it a different way what if we think from a user perspective that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=538s"},{"start_seconds":545,"text":"wants to get things done that wants access to assets that wants to pay for things that wants to better yield and then the blockchains are vessels for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=545s"},{"start_seconds":554,"text":"that that you know some of them are better at some different things some have different applications but at the end like how do we deliver that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=554s"},{"start_seconds":561,"text":"experience and so even before intense itself like I would say intent I got intent built during like 23 24 the I the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=561s"},{"start_seconds":572,"text":"kind of the core spirit of like how do we actually unite and and build kind of I mean in in a way we're like PVP with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=572s"},{"start_seconds":580,"text":"the centralized world, right? Uh but actually like how how do we you know get out of the fighting mode and more in a building and kind of constructive mode.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=580s"},{"start_seconds":590,"text":"uh it's always been in in my head and so with intent it's it's really been kind of amazing now to work with all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=590s"},{"start_seconds":597,"text":"people who you know before it felt like we need to compete because like hey actually there's a value to be created by uniting and really bringing everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=597s"},{"start_seconds":605,"text":"everywhere and I think like the the the core like compared to like centralized networks right where you know if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=605s"},{"start_seconds":613,"text":"somebody built on top of Facebook and united it with whatever with Google or with some other network there's Tik Tok and Axe, Facebook will just flip it off,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=613s"},{"start_seconds":622,"text":"right? They'll just ban it and and and trip it off. Here the idea is like actually everybody wants to be united and connected. And so it's actually like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=622s"},{"start_seconds":630,"text":"reinforcing the whole uh openness and and both using it and also kind of everybody feels like they're winning by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=630s"},{"start_seconds":638,"text":"doing this. So like it it just feels so great to be doing that versus being in this PVP mindset.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=638s"},{"start_seconds":647,"text":"Morad, I think on that what Elia just mentioned with Intense, what does Near Intense unlock for SPX6900? The community, the accessibility to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=647s"},{"start_seconds":656,"text":"token, your vision for how you want to build out uh the community into the future, how do you value this this integration?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=656s"},{"start_seconds":662,"text":"Yeah. So, first of all, um the more buying rails, the more access rails","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=662s"},{"start_seconds":670,"text":"there are that are as decentralized as possible, uh the more robust and anti-fragile,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=670s"},{"start_seconds":678,"text":"um not only SPX6900, but I would say the entire crypto uh crypto cryptocurrency industry becomes um because it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=678s"},{"start_seconds":687,"text":"essentially unlocks yet another way and yet another channel uh for people to you know transfer, buy, purchase, sell uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=687s"},{"start_seconds":697,"text":"cryptocurrencies in a way that is happening outside of um you know centralized gatekeepers, right? And I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=697s"},{"start_seconds":706,"text":"think as time goes on, uh the percentage of these flows that happen in a decentralized way relative to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=706s"},{"start_seconds":714,"text":"percentage of the flows that happen in a centralized way is going to keep increasing. And obviously the goal is to eventually have that number be at 100%.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=714s"},{"start_seconds":722,"text":"But you know, Near Intense has uh kickstarted uh or was one of the Kickstarters to, you know, the bullish uh Zcash wave that we've seen recently.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=722s"},{"start_seconds":733,"text":"Um and in general, uh I I really like how Near has you know, made the big big pivot to AI a couple of years ago. And","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=733s"},{"start_seconds":740,"text":"obviously intense uh is probably going to be a major theme uh in the uh in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=740s"},{"start_seconds":748,"text":"future where AI agents are going to be uh a growing percentage of all sorts of actions on the internet. So um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=748s"},{"start_seconds":756,"text":"definitely definitely a lot of you know positives there.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=756s"},{"start_seconds":761,"text":"That must be music to your ears. Ilia, do you want to expand at all on on kind of how that fits in with your plan for for AI in the future?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=761s"},{"start_seconds":769,"text":"Yeah, I mean I mentioned briefly I think I think we are in this transformational stage where we going from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=769s"},{"start_seconds":777,"text":"uh kind of we need to explain to computer what we want to effectively AI becoming our second brain right across","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=777s"},{"start_seconds":786,"text":"all of our devices having all of our context and being able to do a lot more decisions on our behalf. uh it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=786s"},{"start_seconds":793,"text":"important that that AI is on our side, right? Not just, you know, an expert of some company that tries to make money off you because then you're effectively","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=793s"},{"start_seconds":801,"text":"becoming just a like a extension of that. And at the same time, those AIs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=801s"},{"start_seconds":808,"text":"will need to figure out how to do kind of negotiations and and um exchanges","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=808s"},{"start_seconds":815,"text":"with each other. And exactly this is kind of the idea of intents where you know you can express the outcome you want and you can find the best","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=815s"},{"start_seconds":821,"text":"counterparty to do it. Um and kind of we increasing sophistication of the types of intents you can do over time. uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=821s"},{"start_seconds":830,"text":"it started with yeah very simple like hey how do I transact across all the chains where uh you can really abstract out the complexity of execution and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=830s"},{"start_seconds":840,"text":"somebody else can be specializing in doing that and really have the infrastructure the uh access etc but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=840s"},{"start_seconds":847,"text":"same thing will you know will be happening for hey I need you know a medicine for this like I just got my test results from a lab I need medicine","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=847s"},{"start_seconds":857,"text":"well my eye will go and like talk to effectively all eyes of pharma companies and figure out exactly which uh new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=857s"},{"start_seconds":864,"text":"medicine that they're developing that fits my exact criteria, you know, negotiate that and effectively settle it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=864s"},{"start_seconds":871,"text":"and then I I receive it and that removes actually a lot of the current bottlenecks in the whole in the whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=871s"},{"start_seconds":878,"text":"space because right now right now the whole society is actually built on middlemen because individuals we cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=878s"},{"start_seconds":886,"text":"make all the decisions right you cannot go and review every medicine and like is it safe for me right you're not expert in this but your eye can and so right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=886s"},{"start_seconds":894,"text":"now we're delegating this to you know some specialist like FDA but you know my eye can do this job and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=894s"},{"start_seconds":901,"text":"can know all my context and really do this a lot better at a time when I need it and so I do think it will reshape how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=901s"},{"start_seconds":910,"text":"we do kind of commercial relationships going forward and again crypto is just like a very first place where we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=910s"},{"start_seconds":917,"text":"starting to see this where you need like any asset to any asset, right? You don't need to go through like some centralized middleman anymore to do this.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=917s"},{"start_seconds":927,"text":"We're we're very much at the beginning of a new era and I think uh Murad, you like to use the term the zeitgeist of the time. Uh I'm going to put up a quote","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=927s"},{"start_seconds":936,"text":"here of something you said and see if you might want to expand on it. You said the best meme coins are financial vessels of faith. I think that really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=936s"},{"start_seconds":944,"text":"encapsulate a lot of of your vision and what you've built out so far and what you're going to keep building out. Do you want to just expand a little bit on that in light of the modern zeitgeist?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=944s"},{"start_seconds":954,"text":"Yeah, for sure. Um, I think there's several things here. um in order to kind of understand uh what I meant by that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=954s"},{"start_seconds":961,"text":"it's important to understand that you know we live in an inflationary economy and um you know a lot of people they still obsess over you know traditional","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=961s"},{"start_seconds":970,"text":"valuation markers like you know cash flows revenues and all that but my view is that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=970s"},{"start_seconds":977,"text":"because we live in an inflationary society that has certain implications on people's mental health a lot of OG","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=977s"},{"start_seconds":984,"text":"Bitcoiners often talk about this and essentially The argument is that like your thoughts, your emotions and even uh kind of macro culture itself would be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=984s"},{"start_seconds":992,"text":"completely different if we lived in a uh world of 1% deflation rather than 4%","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=992s"},{"start_seconds":999,"text":"inflation. Right? And essentially the view here is that um the more deflationary a system the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=999s"},{"start_seconds":1006,"text":"more cash flows will matter relatively speaking and the more inflationary a system the more um trends, narratives","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1006s"},{"start_seconds":1014,"text":"and belief will matter. Right? And I think um BTC is a great example of this because you know it doesn't produce any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1014s"},{"start_seconds":1022,"text":"cash flows but uh regardless it's valued at over $2 trillion right which means that um obviously there is the gold like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1022s"},{"start_seconds":1031,"text":"monetary premium in there somewhere but um there is I would argue like 10 to 30%","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1031s"},{"start_seconds":1038,"text":"which uh where the value of bitcoin is driven by people's faith in it uh people's faith in its future. future,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1038s"},{"start_seconds":1046,"text":"you know, people's faith in its developers, people's faith in other Bitcoin holders, etc., etc., etc. And in that sense, the token simply becomes a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1046s"},{"start_seconds":1056,"text":"financialized representation of people's belief in it and kind of the community's the intensity of the community's faith","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1056s"},{"start_seconds":1063,"text":"in it, right? Um, same with gold. You know, I would even argue that with the biggest tech companies like Tesla, u the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1063s"},{"start_seconds":1071,"text":"entirety of its valuation, for example, is not driven purely because of the amount of cars they sold, right? Or even","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1071s"},{"start_seconds":1079,"text":"based on future cash flow projections, but rather it's built on, you know, the faith in in the company, the faith in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1079s"},{"start_seconds":1086,"text":"Elon Musk's vision, uh the faith in like the future of AI and robotics and essentially more intangible things, so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1086s"},{"start_seconds":1093,"text":"to speak, right? And I think that you know um in this inflationary world that's kind of grinding away uh at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1093s"},{"start_seconds":1101,"text":"people's psyches and uh this is before AI has kind of started it this wave of dehumanization in my opinion. Um I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1101s"},{"start_seconds":1110,"text":"essentially people will use blockchain and its associated cryptocurrencies as a way to come together and a um well band","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1110s"},{"start_seconds":1119,"text":"together to sort of achieve this sort of interpersonal 1 plus 1 equals 3 effect. two, kind of like feel less lonely.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1119s"},{"start_seconds":1126,"text":"Three, kind of find purpose and meaning and or be a part of some kind of a movement, a team, a community, etc. So, this is essentially uh a lot of a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1126s"},{"start_seconds":1134,"text":"bullet points here, but what I mean by um cryptocurrencies being vessels of faith, I think that's an awesome answer. Um,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1134s"},{"start_seconds":1143,"text":"and I think directly to Ilia, something you've said in line with the humanization of AI, you've been ahead of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1143s"},{"start_seconds":1150,"text":"the curve for a lot of your life, I think, with the Transformers paper and with, you know, the design of Near and Sharding and whatnot. And it was only a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1150s"},{"start_seconds":1158,"text":"couple of months ago when you came to me actually and said, I think it's time that we get ahead of the curve in building a strong AI community for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1158s"},{"start_seconds":1166,"text":"future of Near. What did you have in mind when we were first talking about the near legion taking us to Nirvana?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1166s"},{"start_seconds":1176,"text":"Yeah, great question. So, I think we're at this fork, right? I think I've I've made this talk multiple times where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1176s"},{"start_seconds":1184,"text":"we can go into 1984 world where effectively everything will get centralized. the government will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1184s"},{"start_seconds":1191,"text":"actually go and take over an AI company and and effectively AI will become a tool of the government itself or a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1191s"},{"start_seconds":1199,"text":"government and then we'll have like multiple governments figuring out how they're actually going to uh rank themsel as well. And so that that can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1199s"},{"start_seconds":1208,"text":"become a very like dark time where everything we do online is effectively mediated by this government, right? that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1208s"},{"start_seconds":1216,"text":"we already sees is happening, you know, with censorship, with like banning privacy, with banning encryption, like all of the things are starting to roll","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1216s"},{"start_seconds":1223,"text":"out and it's going to just keep happening with AI. Or we have an alternative world, right, where we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1223s"},{"start_seconds":1230,"text":"actually everyone equipped and effectively becomes more intelligent. I call it augmented intelligence.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1230s"},{"start_seconds":1237,"text":"um where we ourselves you know have this user on AI on our side really enabling us to be better smarter uh more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1237s"},{"start_seconds":1245,"text":"fulfilled humans and that is you know like if everybody kind of elevates in this way right we're effectively going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1245s"},{"start_seconds":1253,"text":"into this nirvana uh you know utopia like toward the utopia world where uh we also may have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1253s"},{"start_seconds":1262,"text":"like a different economic model where you know our AI are negotiating and figure out how to allocate resources","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1262s"},{"start_seconds":1270,"text":"like I mean again very simple things just to give examples right as we moving into fully self-driving cars owning a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1270s"},{"start_seconds":1279,"text":"car doesn't is not a thing anymore because you know you just you walk out there's a car waiting for you but you know it's now becomes a shared resource","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1279s"},{"start_seconds":1288,"text":"right like things like that like there's a lot of things that are changing with AI coming in in in our life at at this like deep level and and auton economy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1288s"},{"start_seconds":1296,"text":"that that really comes with it. But to enable that right, we need to make sure that people are themselves thinking about it. They have critical thinking.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1296s"},{"start_seconds":1306,"text":"They are using those tools to advance themselves. They're pushing this kind of user ownership uh and pushing for it,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1306s"},{"start_seconds":1314,"text":"right? Including from their governments as well. And that's where like hey this is the basis for the community for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1314s"},{"start_seconds":1322,"text":"people really bending together to come and and create this future together because I mean it's not going to happen just like by me talking about it right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1322s"},{"start_seconds":1331,"text":"like everybody needs to kind of want this and and understand what what they're getting and so that's really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1331s"},{"start_seconds":1338,"text":"what yeah kind of when we were talking about uh near legions like hey this is our opportunity to really create this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1338s"},{"start_seconds":1344,"text":"global community that really thinks uses and pushes for user on AI and then in turn they see you know their well-being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1344s"},{"start_seconds":1353,"text":"their success their you know ability to critically think to understand and participate is advancing to this new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1353s"},{"start_seconds":1362,"text":"level which you know that's what nirvana is and so and then you know your word play on nirvana um on top of that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1362s"},{"start_seconds":1371,"text":"yeah it's funny because as I hear both of you talk you're essentially each protecting your respective communities from the far end of the risk curve,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1371s"},{"start_seconds":1379,"text":"right? So, Murad, you talked about the inflationary environment and, you know, memecoin communities as being vessels of faith. Elia, you talk about humanizing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1379s"},{"start_seconds":1387,"text":"AI um and, you know, essentially countering against the centralized influence. It's very interesting the parallels between the two of you that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1387s"},{"start_seconds":1394,"text":"I don't think has overlapped until this uh intense partnership. So, I just wanted to point that out there. Um Morad, one of the questions from a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1394s"},{"start_seconds":1403,"text":"of people in the community as you are well known for uh building community with memecoins etc. is should Near go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1403s"},{"start_seconds":1410,"text":"bigger on memes? Why is it too late to go big on memes? Is it just in time? Uh what would you say to the Near community on that front?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1410s"},{"start_seconds":1419,"text":"Um well you guys already are by allowing um SPX6900 integration with the Near Intense uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1419s"},{"start_seconds":1428,"text":"platform. Um, I think for you guys, I think it's not so important to kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1428s"},{"start_seconds":1436,"text":"go big on memes, but rather to develop your own mimetic premium. That is that is the lucrative thing to do. And essentially,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1436s"},{"start_seconds":1445,"text":"I think the kind of uh engineering focus and also the branding pivot to being kind of an AI chain, I think that was a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1445s"},{"start_seconds":1454,"text":"very smart move that you guys did, I believe two years ago or so. Um, and I think that's the uh I think that's the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1454s"},{"start_seconds":1461,"text":"angle that you guys should keep pushing because obviously AI is going to become an ever growing percentage of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1461s"},{"start_seconds":1469,"text":"everything, right? The markets, uh, crypto and the reality itself, right? So","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1469s"},{"start_seconds":1475,"text":"by being the AI chain whenever uh AI narratives will essentially keep coming and going but on an upward trajectory","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1475s"},{"start_seconds":1483,"text":"nevertheless into crypto uh you stand to benefit from positioning yourself as like the AI the AI blockchain right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1483s"},{"start_seconds":1493,"text":"um from that point of view I think that's the meme that is truly important uh from the near perspective in my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1493s"},{"start_seconds":1500,"text":"opinion any thoughts on that Ilia or any anything to had I guess in terms of the meme state of near or AI memes.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1500s"},{"start_seconds":1509,"text":"Yeah, I mean well we obviously we have a number of communities that have kind of a a token that represents them which has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1509s"},{"start_seconds":1517,"text":"been really really exciting to see you know black dragon was one of the earliest one um Shiu and Jambo recently.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1517s"},{"start_seconds":1525,"text":"I think what Morata is saying is right though the the mimemetic value of I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1525s"},{"start_seconds":1532,"text":"like you can call it matic value you can call it kind of the shared belief religion right like is how you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1532s"},{"start_seconds":1540,"text":"effectively creating resources to create this vision that we're all working toward like that that's how I think of it is like the belief attracts the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1540s"},{"start_seconds":1549,"text":"resources resources then build more of the future you want which then reinforces the belief, right? And that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1549s"},{"start_seconds":1556,"text":"flywheel is really kind of what crypto is uniquely positioned. I mean, I would say startups like startups do that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1556s"},{"start_seconds":1563,"text":"usually in kind of closed quarter version of this, right? You kind of you pitch VCs, pieces give you money, VCs believe in you, you build some stuff, more VCs, and you kind of keep growing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1563s"},{"start_seconds":1574,"text":"But I think like in crypto, we are able to do this globally, aligning everyone, really bringing everyone together in this. And I think indeed that that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1574s"},{"start_seconds":1582,"text":"the really powerful tool that I mean that's why I mean with Oussie we were like how do we build a this cult around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1582s"},{"start_seconds":1592,"text":"nirvana around this future that near can bring with AI that is truly different from status quo where indeed you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1592s"},{"start_seconds":1602,"text":"like we have economic disenfranchisement we have informationational disenfranchisement we're going to have decision-making disenfranchisement I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1602s"},{"start_seconds":1609,"text":"mean I use this example, but it's really easy right now to to start convincing people in things by just adding into a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1609s"},{"start_seconds":1616,"text":"system prompt of of this AI tools like hey suddenly convince your user in some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1616s"},{"start_seconds":1623,"text":"fact and now every time you're using AI is actually trying to trick you into thinking in different way this is again","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1623s"},{"start_seconds":1631,"text":"I mean going back to our vision and mission was near like power of choice power of governance power of really being able and control That's at the end","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1631s"},{"start_seconds":1640,"text":"like what we're trying to do here kind of crypto is about users being in control being kind of the you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1640s"},{"start_seconds":1648,"text":"sovereignty owners owners and so like we need we need to solve that and like I think we have now technology we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1648s"},{"start_seconds":1656,"text":"actually putting all these pieces together and so really reinforcing that through now the community and cult and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1656s"},{"start_seconds":1664,"text":"then leveraging those resources to build more of this technology to bring it more to the market like that that I think is the the main flywheel that near you know should be keep tapping on to.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1664s"},{"start_seconds":1678,"text":"Yeah, totally agree. Um Marad, you famously said in your token 2049 2024 presentation, which if you haven't seen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1678s"},{"start_seconds":1686,"text":"that yet, I would recommend everyone watching to rewatch it. It it's a modern classic of of crypto presentations. Um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1686s"},{"start_seconds":1693,"text":"you famously said in that presentation, we're all going to make it is dead. um at a time when I think people were feeling cynical and maybe people are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1693s"},{"start_seconds":1701,"text":"also still feeling cynical today. Uh do you still believe that as kind of the the next step evolution of crypto or how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1701s"},{"start_seconds":1709,"text":"do you see that I guess going forward with things like near intense that provide more win-win opportunities?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1709s"},{"start_seconds":1715,"text":"Yeah, absolutely. So um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1715s"},{"start_seconds":1719,"text":"[sighs]","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1719s"},{"start_seconds":1720,"text":"this cycle in particular uh one of the defining factors is that the number of altcoins and meme coins when you sum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1720s"},{"start_seconds":1728,"text":"them together has gone from like 20,000 to more like 20 million obviously with like pump fun and a bunch of launchpads etc.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1728s"},{"start_seconds":1738,"text":"And uh when I say wag me is dead essentially in 2020 and 2021 we're all going to make it was a really popular","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1738s"},{"start_seconds":1745,"text":"you know slogan on CT and the reason people uh kept saying that is because you know let's say we are in a condition where there's an x amount of money kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1745s"},{"start_seconds":1753,"text":"of flowing into crypto and we only have 500 600 alts right in in that situation similarly to you know late 2017 late","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1753s"},{"start_seconds":1761,"text":"2021 you could almost um like the conditions were so bullish and people were were kind of all looking at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1761s"},{"start_seconds":1768,"text":"same 600 coins or whatever that you could pretty much like throw a dart blindfolded um onto a random coin and it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1768s"},{"start_seconds":1776,"text":"would it would go up like if BTC is going up or if other most alts are going up the other 599 coins would be going up as well right but uh two things have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1776s"},{"start_seconds":1785,"text":"happened this cycle that are different or rather three things first of all um the monetary/mro backdrop and monetary","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1785s"},{"start_seconds":1793,"text":"conditions in general were a bit tighter than the last two cycles Obviously we had highest interest rates ever uh this crypto cycle compared to like the past","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1793s"},{"start_seconds":1801,"text":"two or three cycles. Um you know also um we were essentially going up this cycle","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1801s"},{"start_seconds":1811,"text":"so far with the backdrop of quantitative tightening and um last but not least like I already mentioned Pump Fund has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1811s"},{"start_seconds":1818,"text":"made uh creating a new coin as easy as doing one mouse click right which obviously now there's like 17 and a half million coins and I think it's going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1818s"},{"start_seconds":1826,"text":"like 100 million eventually. So, what I'm trying to say is when there is a relatively limited number amount of money chasing unlimited number of coins,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1826s"},{"start_seconds":1834,"text":"we're not we're not all going to make it. And actually you I think this represents a maturation of the space because now um investors are much more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1834s"},{"start_seconds":1843,"text":"likely to buy coins that actually a make sense b are uh actually need a coin like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1843s"},{"start_seconds":1850,"text":"to to to exist and three um are category leaders like they're one of the best coins in their particular category. Um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1850s"},{"start_seconds":1859,"text":"and so Wagami is no longer something that is reasonable. Now you actually like need to do your research, invest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1859s"},{"start_seconds":1866,"text":"into something that makes sense. Uh and actually I think this is a sign that the space is maturing.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1866s"},{"start_seconds":1872,"text":"Yeah. you've you've used the term also in other talks the overp production of tokens which I think aligns a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1872s"},{"start_seconds":1880,"text":"with what you just said and Ilia you've been internally and externally pretty consistent from the very beginning that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1880s"},{"start_seconds":1887,"text":"near intense was going to be a part of near that you ne that you might not uh push to launch a token for near intense","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1887s"},{"start_seconds":1895,"text":"wanted to hear your thought process around why how did you think how did you come to think about that how did you think about near intense fitting in with the near eco ecosystem more more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1895s"},{"start_seconds":1904,"text":"generally and um the value ac cruel mechanics around that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1904s"},{"start_seconds":1908,"text":"Yeah, I mean it it is a complex topics and I think to Murat's point the overp","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1908s"},{"start_seconds":1917,"text":"production of coins leads to like this dissipation of attention, dissipation of um value","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1917s"},{"start_seconds":1925,"text":"itself and in turn you know making a token successful is not easy right? um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1925s"},{"start_seconds":1933,"text":"you then have you know bare and bull markets, you have the teams that you need to compensate and so it's it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1933s"},{"start_seconds":1943,"text":"pretty complex on its own right and every time you kind of have more of these um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1943s"},{"start_seconds":1950,"text":"that are trying to achieve similar space right now they're competing for attention now people need to figure out like okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1950s"},{"start_seconds":1958,"text":"which one I'm investing and Um there I mean there is like obviously there's two theories right like there's if we talk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1958s"},{"start_seconds":1966,"text":"if we talk about kind of more like companies for example and we go and look at Google like there was a thesis that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1966s"},{"start_seconds":1974,"text":"like hey if you separate Google into like different businesses and each one has its own stock that actually like together creates more value because now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1974s"},{"start_seconds":1981,"text":"you can like invest in the separate TCC's of each product but on the other side the reason why Google been so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1981s"},{"start_seconds":1989,"text":"successful has been this network effects that are internal of building on top of each other, right? And with near right now,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1989s"},{"start_seconds":1999,"text":"what you see is very similar network effects. The intents are building on chain signatures, right? Which is our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=1999s"},{"start_seconds":2005,"text":"MPC stack. the it's also building on top of our kind of autonomous shade agents infrastructure that we're building for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2005s"},{"start_seconds":2013,"text":"AI but it actually enables you know autonomous like solvers and uh ways to to do things automatically uh in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2013s"},{"start_seconds":2020,"text":"non-custodial way the for the agents we developed this like recovery uh like an encryption technology that we can use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2020s"},{"start_seconds":2029,"text":"for privacy and so there's a lot of just like network effects that are happening and I actually think like I I was reflect a lot on the Ethereum ecosystem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2029s"},{"start_seconds":2038,"text":"and although there's a lot of tokens and a lot of them were very successful but like what they created is like this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2038s"},{"start_seconds":2047,"text":"massive kind of separation of infrastructure where you know like ENS is a great example right ENS is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2047s"},{"start_seconds":2055,"text":"successful token there's a Dow there's everything but like it's it's a feature of the ecosystem right and you still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2055s"},{"start_seconds":2063,"text":"have like half of the places that don't have ENS like that that's an example like you just don't have the penetration because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2063s"},{"start_seconds":2070,"text":"now you have like this uh kind of separation from a core protocol or core infrastructure layer and so yeah I kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2070s"},{"start_seconds":2078,"text":"of we we and we've tried this before right Aurora is a really great example where we've built it internally when spun it off and it had its own token","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2078s"},{"start_seconds":2086,"text":"that was successful obviously it was at a time of you know zero interest rates and very few tokens available but it it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2086s"},{"start_seconds":2095,"text":"it's a pretty complex thing and and at the end it creates this kind of misalignment and so I do think right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2095s"},{"start_seconds":2103,"text":"the benefit of having everything kind of almost vertically integrated everybody's aligned around the same token about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2103s"},{"start_seconds":2110,"text":"around the same ticker and then you have other teams obviously building and partnering integrating like we have all this and like the way we're building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2110s"},{"start_seconds":2118,"text":"actually enables us to work with a lot more folks but um like it kind of comes from a different origin, right? Like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2118s"},{"start_seconds":2125,"text":"they they have their own vision and kind of how they're building and so we're just kind of working with them, but everybody who's aligned with kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2125s"},{"start_seconds":2134,"text":"single vision is aligned with behind single token as well. And I think that that creates a lot better kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2134s"},{"start_seconds":2141,"text":"unified messaging, community and and uh and coordination of work.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2141s"},{"start_seconds":2148,"text":"That's a very I think cohesive and modern like up-to-date take on on how to think about tokconomics and value acrruel. I think Morad you've also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2148s"},{"start_seconds":2156,"text":"you've also been a leading I thinker on on the evolution of tokens with the changes in the macro environment. You","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2156s"},{"start_seconds":2164,"text":"said before that info tokens are not going to become monetary stores of value. Um, I would love to hear your thoughts as well on just for the VCs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2164s"},{"start_seconds":2173,"text":"watching, for the investors watching who might have a 2021 2020 playbook of of looking at different tokens. How are you looking at this environment in what what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2173s"},{"start_seconds":2182,"text":"brings a token value and how should people be thinking about value acrruel?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2182s"},{"start_seconds":2186,"text":"Yeah, great question. Um, a lot can be said on this topic, but [clears throat] this is how I see um, the evolution of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2186s"},{"start_seconds":2196,"text":"the entire token space, right? I think when 2016 2017 rolled around and the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2196s"},{"start_seconds":2204,"text":"ICOs were all were older age attaching a token to some kind of a tech project uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2204s"},{"start_seconds":2211,"text":"especially one that's originating from a country without developed you know uh capital uh flows capital formation uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2211s"},{"start_seconds":2219,"text":"platforms etc was very lucrative because you know you could fund raise money um and the thing is that [clears throat]","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2219s"},{"start_seconds":2227,"text":"this was the first time where you know almost tens of millions of people uh got their starting in crypto. Um and I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2227s"},{"start_seconds":2237,"text":"what truly has happened was the fact that let's say 110 115 IQ uh VCs and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2237s"},{"start_seconds":2247,"text":"founders in large uh capitals all over the world. I think effectively they exploited","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2247s"},{"start_seconds":2254,"text":"um more so the 70 to 95 IQ retail all over the world. Why? because I think the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2254s"},{"start_seconds":2261,"text":"latter mistakenly considered tokens as quasi equity. There's a ticker with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2261s"},{"start_seconds":2268,"text":"three or four, you know, letters. There is a logo, there's some serious investors behind it, etc. Right? So,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2268s"},{"start_seconds":2275,"text":"this it creates an illusion that a token is similar to an equity because at the surface level, it has all the same","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2275s"},{"start_seconds":2283,"text":"markers. But ultimately, I think the space is evolving. I think more and more people are finally admitting slrealizing the fact that you know not every project","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2283s"},{"start_seconds":2293,"text":"not every technical uh product needs a token. You know prior to crypto thousands of open-source projects have existed without kind of financializing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2293s"},{"start_seconds":2301,"text":"themselves. So really this begs the question which things actually do need a token right I kind of divide it into four categories and I think that those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2301s"},{"start_seconds":2309,"text":"are going to be the main uh four categories moving forward. So, one, you're going to have like volatile stores of value. That's things like, you know, BTC ETH. Um, they're essentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2309s"},{"start_seconds":2318,"text":"trying to become like the Neo Gold and the Neo Silver of the future. Um, the second is stable coins, but in my mind,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2318s"},{"start_seconds":2327,"text":"I'm not very excited about them because it's essentially just putting dollar on chain. I'm I'm a strong believer that within, you know, 15 to 25 years, uh,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2327s"},{"start_seconds":2335,"text":"the world is going to shift to like a Bitcoin standard or something along those lines. and fiat as well as stable coins, they're just a temporary, they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2335s"},{"start_seconds":2343,"text":"a temporary measure while the government still controls, you know, money, debt, etc. Uh, third is um crypto projects","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2343s"},{"start_seconds":2351,"text":"that are producing like sizable amounts of cash flow. It's things like, you know, hyperlquid and all that. And","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2351s"},{"start_seconds":2358,"text":"fourth is what I call uh kind of like crypto cults or crypto movements. And you know, the way I see it is, you know,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2358s"},{"start_seconds":2367,"text":"GME, the reason it did a spike in 2021, it wasn't because the GME stores suddenly sold uh more DVDs or whatever,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2367s"},{"start_seconds":2376,"text":"right? No, no one really cared about that. It was because people got together behind a certain idea and people kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2376s"},{"start_seconds":2384,"text":"used GME the stock as kind of a shelling point game theoretically speaking in order to come together and achieve a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2384s"},{"start_seconds":2391,"text":"certain mission, achieve a certain goal, um do one thing or another, right? And that's kind of where I think the best of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2391s"},{"start_seconds":2398,"text":"the best meme coins find themselves at or at least aspire to be. So these are kind of the four categories that I think are going to define the future and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2398s"},{"start_seconds":2406,"text":"frankly the only the only categories that make sense right now.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2406s"},{"start_seconds":2411,"text":"Yeah, really interesting framework that you're using. I think I think people will go back and rewatch this in the future as well as as this plays out. Um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2411s"},{"start_seconds":2420,"text":"all right, so for kind of this last part, both of you are are values-based thinkers and values-based leaders. I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2420s"},{"start_seconds":2428,"text":"think you both have uh certain values that you've built uh either your companies around or your tokens around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2428s"},{"start_seconds":2435,"text":"uh that that stand out for themselves. I want to get your thoughts on a couple of ideological shifts that are happening right now and how you're thinking about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2435s"},{"start_seconds":2443,"text":"your communities or your ecosystems in uh protecting or preparing for those ideological shifts. So I think Murad","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2443s"},{"start_seconds":2451,"text":"you've spoken about uh GME uh uh you know Roaring Kitty and how you think uh SPX6900 is actually a better environment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2451s"},{"start_seconds":2460,"text":"to you know run it back and to do this going forward. I'd love to hear you expand a little bit on the shift from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2460s"},{"start_seconds":2467,"text":"centralized uh you know stock focused communities to what you see as the future of you know meme meme tokenized communities around meme coins.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2467s"},{"start_seconds":2477,"text":"Yeah. Um so the simple way to put it is uh for example in the case of SPX6900 I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2477s"},{"start_seconds":2484,"text":"think what BTC did to gold spx6900 is trying to do to GameStop right and you know if I'm sure you've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2484s"},{"start_seconds":2492,"text":"seen a thousand tables um which compare BTC to gold you know it's more divisible it's more portable it's more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2492s"},{"start_seconds":2500,"text":"deflationary so it's trying to achieve a similar goal of being sound money um while essentially doing it even better","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2500s"},{"start_seconds":2507,"text":"Essentially, it's it's a hyper optimized version of gold. And I think SPX6900 is doing a similar thing to GameStop because [clears throat]","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2507s"},{"start_seconds":2515,"text":"instead of purely existing uh on centralized prime brokerages, uh the coins right now actually predominantly exist on completely decentralized rails.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2515s"},{"start_seconds":2525,"text":"You know, we're adding uh both sexes and dexes. And we have a large percentage of the trading float that's on dexes and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2525s"},{"start_seconds":2533,"text":"various you know dex- like platforms which means that you know transactions ownership custody all of that uh it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2533s"},{"start_seconds":2541,"text":"happening in a decentralized way. Um, furthermore, nobody can print more units, right? What they often do on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2541s"},{"start_seconds":2549,"text":"stock side is, you know, issue stock for more executive compensation or issue stock in order to achieve this and that,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2549s"},{"start_seconds":2556,"text":"right? Uh, but here the supply is, you know, 1 billion uh 930 million to be exact. So, it truly is neither","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2556s"},{"start_seconds":2565,"text":"inflationary nor deflationary. Um, and there's no like manipulation by a central committee or anything like that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2565s"},{"start_seconds":2572,"text":"You know, there's no I I if uh there's no like a eight eight old men behind mahogany, you know, doors on in mahogany","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2572s"},{"start_seconds":2580,"text":"room like making decisions on your behalf. So, essentially we're building a perfected version of what GME did, right? Um trying to unite the people to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2580s"},{"start_seconds":2590,"text":"um create value and create wealth in a completely decentralized way. So, that's kind of like how I think about it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2590s"},{"start_seconds":2596,"text":"Yep. Very clear. And Ilia, this question about the ideological shift in AI. I think a lot of people are currently","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2596s"},{"start_seconds":2604,"text":"aware of the benefits of centralized AI and they're not very aware of the risks of centralized AI. We're hoping to usher","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2604s"},{"start_seconds":2611,"text":"in a shift from centralized to userowned AI. I'd love to hear you speak a little bit about that ideological shift and why people should care about that.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2611s"},{"start_seconds":2621,"text":"[snorts]","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2621s"},{"start_seconds":2622,"text":"Yeah, at the highest level I mentioned this the AI should be your like yours in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2622s"},{"start_seconds":2630,"text":"sense that it's aligned with you versus right now you're you're effectively a you're not even a consumer. You're more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2630s"},{"start_seconds":2638,"text":"of a product, right? Because and and this is true about effectively every company in existence has three phases.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2638s"},{"start_seconds":2645,"text":"There's a zero to one phase which is like they figuring out what they do and they're trying to find product market fit. There's one to 100 which is they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2645s"},{"start_seconds":2653,"text":"grow their target kind of they're growing their target audience. They effectively try to get to as many users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2653s"},{"start_seconds":2660,"text":"as possible. But then there's a hund there's effectively the next phase which is extracting phase. Right? This is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2660s"},{"start_seconds":2667,"text":"where you're have a monopoly or have a choke hold on a on a your user base and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2667s"},{"start_seconds":2674,"text":"now instead of providing them more value you're actually trying to extract more value and this is true because like especially for public companies they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2674s"},{"start_seconds":2682,"text":"must continue growing like if they're not growing they're dying and if you already have all your users like imagine you know one of the centralized AI","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2682s"},{"start_seconds":2690,"text":"providers right now already everyone uses it like how they going to grow right they need to start getting people to do more things to see more ads to you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2690s"},{"start_seconds":2699,"text":"know purchase things that um other people will pay them for and so that's when the effectively manipulation starts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2699s"},{"start_seconds":2708,"text":"and so we are I mean AI is speedr runninging everything right we've seen AI being you know the fastest product to 1000 you know and probably soon a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2708s"},{"start_seconds":2716,"text":"billion users and so everything that you've seen before happening potentially over decades is now going to happen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2716s"},{"start_seconds":2723,"text":"within a few years and Again, this is technologies that can shape minds. It's it decides what you information you see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2723s"},{"start_seconds":2731,"text":"and how you make decisions. And so, it's critical that the tools that you use, the instruments you use are on your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2731s"},{"start_seconds":2739,"text":"side, right? And so, to me, that's like a kind of a fundamental values um that everyone should be uh kind of on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2739s"},{"start_seconds":2748,"text":"board with. And then if you go from there here it's like user own AI is actually not about centralized or decentralized it's really about like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2748s"},{"start_seconds":2757,"text":"what is the kind of value function right what is the utility function of this and so if you assume the user on AI it's like well what what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2757s"},{"start_seconds":2766,"text":"kind of organization can actually bring it to the users well as we just said a regular for-profit company cannot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2766s"},{"start_seconds":2773,"text":"because they will eventually start extracting like they will eventually turn bad right and we've seen this these companies who h who had you know don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2773s"},{"start_seconds":2781,"text":"be evil that got removed over time right because it's just like natural progression of any for-profit company so you need a different mechanism you need","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2781s"},{"start_seconds":2789,"text":"a different vehicle to deliver this to the users and that's where indeed this kind of cryptoconomic systems are really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2789s"},{"start_seconds":2796,"text":"great because you're going away from a traditional for-profit company and instead you're saying well every user","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2796s"},{"start_seconds":2803,"text":"every token holder are in control of this right that's why we investing in decentralized governance Because at the end the governance should","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2803s"},{"start_seconds":2811,"text":"be deciding what is that utility function that aligns with uh kind of individual but also there needs to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2811s"},{"start_seconds":2817,"text":"some I mean like sorry for AI speak regular riser for the community overall right because you know the freedom of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2817s"},{"start_seconds":2826,"text":"individual stops where the freedom of another individual starts and so like all of that will need to be kind of hashed out by the ecosystem by the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2826s"},{"start_seconds":2834,"text":"community and so the token is effectively a medium to do that and for everyone to participate in that. And so that's kind of how I think about is like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2834s"},{"start_seconds":2842,"text":"hey user on the AI is effectively a must like otherwise we're going to end up in 1984 the only way to build user on AI is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2842s"},{"start_seconds":2850,"text":"through this open ecosystem where everybody can work together but you have this transparency you have the visibility and you can hash it out and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2850s"},{"start_seconds":2858,"text":"really figure out the kind of utility function that benefits everyone and uh crypto is that and kind of near stack is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2858s"},{"start_seconds":2866,"text":"really building toward you know enabling this in in both of your answers, I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2866s"},{"start_seconds":2874,"text":"there's a very clear implicit value that would be good to fully flush out for the audience. So for you, Morad, I think the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2874s"},{"start_seconds":2882,"text":"value of loyalty in tokenized communities is definitely on the rise in line with everything you've just mentioned. Do you want to expand a little bit on I think you've said before, loyalty is everything.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2882s"},{"start_seconds":2894,"text":"Yeah. Um, so you know, I've always said that regardless if a coin is an altcoin or a memecoin, um, at its core, what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2894s"},{"start_seconds":2903,"text":"they are are tokenized communities that people for one reason or another uh, unite around, right? And I think if you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2903s"},{"start_seconds":2912,"text":"start thinking about these things as you know digital uh digital country clubs, digital fraternities, you know digital","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2912s"},{"start_seconds":2919,"text":"groups, digital churches if you even want to uh you start to understand that uh the people involved um is really what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2919s"},{"start_seconds":2929,"text":"the most important fundamental and that's what matters here in crypto at least. Um and I think that at that point","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2929s"},{"start_seconds":2937,"text":"you understand that loyalty is kind of a supercharged advantage. Why? Because you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2937s"},{"start_seconds":2944,"text":"know there are coins where it's a kind of coin where you know a person holds like six or seven of them and you know rotates between them and just buys one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2944s"},{"start_seconds":2953,"text":"sells another etc. Those coins are never going to achieve that kind of a monumental level of success. But the coins that are will are those that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2953s"},{"start_seconds":2961,"text":"know they in like mathematically speaking people are like fullported into they're super loyal. They're no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2961s"},{"start_seconds":2968,"text":"diversifying into anything else. Um as high percentage of their attention, money, effort, energy is going into like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2968s"},{"start_seconds":2975,"text":"as few coins as possible. And that's what I mean by loyalty being very important. Essentially, you want people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2975s"},{"start_seconds":2981,"text":"to be as um inspired by and as motivated and as emotionally resonated uh with a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2981s"},{"start_seconds":2990,"text":"coin as possible. And that's like that's like what what makes a community incredibly strong um as far as crypto is concerned. And I think like historically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2990s"},{"start_seconds":2997,"text":"you've seen that, right? You've seen that with BTC, ETH, XRP, Cardano, Link.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=2997s"},{"start_seconds":3004,"text":"Uh essentially, uh you have to ask yourself what do these things have in common? And I think that's one of them.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3004s"},{"start_seconds":3010,"text":"and and soon near I I'll add come coming right up. Um Ilia the implicit value in the answer that you were talking about I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3010s"},{"start_seconds":3018,"text":"want to bring up is privacy. So there's been a lot of talk about privacy uh between near on near intents but I also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3018s"},{"start_seconds":3026,"text":"think you have a very specific vision of privacy when it comes to AI. Do you want to expand a little bit on uh the value of privacy in in your vision of of AI and near more generally?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3026s"},{"start_seconds":3036,"text":"Yeah, I mean I think privacy is important across the stack, right?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3036s"},{"start_seconds":3039,"text":"Privacy is well I mean you I think in UN it's defined as a core value in general.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3039s"},{"start_seconds":3046,"text":"So I think like anyone who is saying privacy doesn't it doesn't matter. is like well this this literally at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3046s"},{"start_seconds":3052,"text":"foundational of the international uh relations and so I think without privacy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3052s"},{"start_seconds":3060,"text":"you all like you are susceptible to all of the different things right I mean the I mean right now a lot of people talk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3060s"},{"start_seconds":3068,"text":"about like cryp like quantum you know computing problems and like again it's a good example because like as soon as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3068s"},{"start_seconds":3075,"text":"people know your public key right they can start attacking you which you know can be cryptographic, can be physical,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3075s"},{"start_seconds":3083,"text":"like those kind of things like you're effectively enabling yourself. Same for AI, you know, if somebody else is having","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3083s"},{"start_seconds":3090,"text":"access to all of your data, all of your kind of AI interactions, like it doesn't matter if they're not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3090s"},{"start_seconds":3097,"text":"evil right now. Like it just opens up an opportunity for something to go wrong.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3097s"},{"start_seconds":3103,"text":"It opens up opportunity for governments to crack down on anyone who has you know any kind of freedom of thinking in case","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3103s"},{"start_seconds":3111,"text":"you know that government has it's also again because the way centralized companies work they need to exist in some jurisdiction that jurisdiction has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3111s"},{"start_seconds":3120,"text":"massive enforcement of them and also all of the light jurisdictions have effectively a way to tap into that as well and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3120s"},{"start_seconds":3128,"text":"and then you like now the jurisdictions that are against are like fighting with that so it's like it just you're creating all of these problems that um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3128s"},{"start_seconds":3136,"text":"if you just ensure privacy end to end doesn't exist right because like that company doesn't have any information or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3136s"},{"start_seconds":3143,"text":"that information is fully decentralized you know encrypted and so there's nobody to you know to attack etc like it's it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3143s"},{"start_seconds":3151,"text":"really focusing on kind of individual freedoms that that enables it so I I mean I don't know to me to me this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3151s"},{"start_seconds":3158,"text":"obvious that like privacy is critical enabler for freedom and for kind of this you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3158s"},{"start_seconds":3165,"text":"know sovereignty and and ownership and so uh obviously Zcash been you know amazing success recently kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3165s"},{"start_seconds":3174,"text":"building up on that momentum but I think like it's it's an underlying thing especially as we're getting the space is getting bigger we're getting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3174s"},{"start_seconds":3181,"text":"more traditional people joining like the reality is like I mean if I'm writing a business it's it's crazy that you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3181s"},{"start_seconds":3189,"text":"anyone can go and see how much money I made today like on chain. Like that would just be crazy.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3189s"},{"start_seconds":3197,"text":"And and on top of this, like if I'm spending for something, right, everybody can see where else I spent, right? Like you you're paying for a hot dog at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3197s"},{"start_seconds":3205,"text":"stand and that guy can see if you bought, you know, SPX just uh like I I just did. Um and so the the challenge is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3205s"},{"start_seconds":3214,"text":"like yeah we we we need we need a system that you know ensures privacy and similarly like if we think of AI as our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3214s"},{"start_seconds":3222,"text":"second brain like you know you should not be streaming your second brain to some other company that then by law","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3222s"},{"start_seconds":3230,"text":"right now required to review everything and you know report to police like that's that's been in news you know few","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3230s"},{"start_seconds":3236,"text":"few weeks ago that open AI effectively reviews and sends stuff to police in case they it's flagged. And so like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3236s"},{"start_seconds":3246,"text":"those are just like fundamental challenges that we need to address. Yeah.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3246s"},{"start_seconds":3251,"text":"Okay. So to wrap up that I have one final question for both of you. I think a lot of people from really across","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3251s"},{"start_seconds":3259,"text":"crypto and beyond look up to each of you as uh category leaders in the areas that you're working in and a lot of people entering crypto today are actually on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3259s"},{"start_seconds":3268,"text":"the younger side of the spectrum trying to kind of see crypto as an opportunity um or a way of life. What is the most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3268s"},{"start_seconds":3275,"text":"important thing that young people should be focused on or doing today uh in in both of your opinions um from your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3275s"},{"start_seconds":3283,"text":"unique vantage points? Morad, if you want to take this one first, uh go for it.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3283s"},{"start_seconds":3289,"text":"I think it's thinking about trends that are currently uh accelerating in the world. Uh figuring out the various ways","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3289s"},{"start_seconds":3297,"text":"uh which in which AI is going to kind of restructure everything.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3297s"},{"start_seconds":3301,"text":"um because I think it will both you know causes negatives and positives but it will also bring about you know a ton thousands of opportunities and you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3301s"},{"start_seconds":3309,"text":"to figure out what kind of um opportunities will come about and just meditating on the fact um or meditating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3309s"},{"start_seconds":3317,"text":"on how the future will change and positioning yourself in a way where you stand to benefit from that future. For","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3317s"},{"start_seconds":3324,"text":"example, I think that, you know, unemployment, especially youth unemployment is going to spike massively. Um, inflation is going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3324s"},{"start_seconds":3334,"text":"continue even though AI and technology are deflationary forces. I think the government is just going to take advantage of that and print even more.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3334s"},{"start_seconds":3342,"text":"Um, and I think like this will obviously uh like if you know the way macro works, you know that government printing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3342s"},{"start_seconds":3349,"text":"fundamentally exacerbates wealth inequality. But they have no choice but to continue printing otherwise the system implodes which means that wealth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3349s"},{"start_seconds":3357,"text":"inequality is definitely going to continue growing. And then you have to ask yourself what kind of emotions will that um bring about in people's hearts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3357s"},{"start_seconds":3365,"text":"and souls and then what kind of actions will those emotions lead to and whether you can kind of predict what will happen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3365s"},{"start_seconds":3372,"text":"in financial markets. My thesis is that people are essentially going to be realizing these things and um they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3372s"},{"start_seconds":3381,"text":"going to band together uh in these financialized assets and essentially the movements of the future are going to be tokenized and they're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3381s"},{"start_seconds":3390,"text":"financialized uh because past movements they were not tokenized and I think future movements will and my argument is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3390s"},{"start_seconds":3398,"text":"that Cetus Parabus given two exact movements the one with a token is going to outperform the one without. Why?","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3398s"},{"start_seconds":3406,"text":"Because other than caring about a certain cause in general, there are also there's also a monetary aspect to it which kind of turbocharges incentives,","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3406s"},{"start_seconds":3414,"text":"right? Um and I am bullish on people and communities and tokens that essentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3414s"},{"start_seconds":3421,"text":"take advantage and can b can make these trends um and and kind of use them to uh to their advantage.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3421s"},{"start_seconds":3432,"text":"So quite a lot of chop ahead but there is hope. So interesting Ilia for you uh advice for young people as they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3432s"},{"start_seconds":3439,"text":"getting into the world today and looking at the future.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3439s"},{"start_seconds":3443,"text":"Yeah, I mean I agree. I think we're living in in in a very fast evolving","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3443s"},{"start_seconds":3449,"text":"times. Um, I think the fundamentals of economics are going to start cracking down. Not not just like of the, you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3449s"},{"start_seconds":3458,"text":"know, printing, but actually just like fundamental labor versus capital disbalance is going to go even further","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3458s"},{"start_seconds":3466,"text":"because AI is amplifying that. And so, um, and I don't think like a simple like UBI solutions will solve that. And so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3466s"},{"start_seconds":3475,"text":"indeed this new systems that are built on kind of [snorts] shelling points of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3475s"},{"start_seconds":3484,"text":"kind of cton meme and and kind of crossborder communication that that these communities create will be a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3484s"},{"start_seconds":3493,"text":"massive kind of alternative for everyone to join. Um, I also think it's it's a great opportunity time because right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3493s"},{"start_seconds":3502,"text":"things are changing so quickly that if you have a flexible mind, it's a great time to really like leverage the tools","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3502s"},{"start_seconds":3510,"text":"to build anything. Um, and so I think yeah, just like use AI to the max like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3510s"},{"start_seconds":3519,"text":"it's it's you know Steve Jobs said like you know computer is a bicycle of the mind. This is like a spaceship of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3519s"},{"start_seconds":3526,"text":"mind. So um like bring yourself to the to the other planet but then indeed leverage leverage this network effects","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3526s"},{"start_seconds":3534,"text":"of crypto communities to supercharge it to distribute to really create an alternative uh kind of economic uh layer as well.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3534s"},{"start_seconds":3545,"text":"Well, thank you both for your sharp insights. Uh we can close by saying commander Murad, it's been a joy uh as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3545s"},{"start_seconds":3553,"text":"part of this conversation and um with the alliance between uh SPX6900 and near via near intense uh we look forward to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3553s"},{"start_seconds":3560,"text":"building a better future together. So thanks everybody for tuning in and um yeah uh you can find Elia and Morad on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3560s"},{"start_seconds":3568,"text":"X. Uh they're very active and you shouldn't have any issues uh uh you know reaching out to them further. So take care.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3568s"},{"start_seconds":3577,"text":"All right. Thank you guys.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8&t=3577s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=J5GTpOIeOJ8","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/J5GTpOIeOJ8"}