{"id":"FdC3kviI5oc","title":"Building A Chain Abstracted Future | Illia Polosukhin (NEAR Protocol) & Jasper De Gooijer (SEDA)","description":"Welcome to the latest Podcast in Illia Polosukhin's Podcast Series - Building A Chain Abstracted Future - Where NEAR Protocol's Co-Founder is joined by SEDA Protocol's CTO & Co-Founder Jasper De Gooijer. \n\nThis session explores the innovative concept of chain abstraction, and how it's poised to revolutionize the industry by simplifying user experiences and enhancing interoperability across blockchain networks. \n\nDive into the technical aspects, understand the potential risks and opportunities, and get a glimpse of how NEAR is leading the way towards a seamlessly integrated Web3 ecosystem. \n\nWhether you're a blockchain enthusiast, developer, or just curious about the future of technology, this session offers invaluable insights into what's next for the decentralized web.\n\n----------------\nJoin NEAR's community:\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nReddit:   / nearprotocol  \nDiscord: https://near.chat/\nTelegram: https://t.me/cryptonear\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nGitHub: https://github.com/near  https://github.com/nearprotocol\nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nWiki: https://wiki.near.org/\nProjects on NEAR: https://near.org/horizon\n#Blockchain #FutureisNEAR #NEAR #nearprotocol\n#nft #dao","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2024-04-08T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/FdC3kviI5oc/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"all right double hit GM GM here we are for another episode the last episode episode seven of our s the Le mini series in episode seven we are discussing chain abstraction which I'm super super excited to be discussing especially on the back of discussing things around modularity and fragmentation uh chain abstraction looks to be the hero that might save the industry so very very excited today we'll be discussing a little bit around what is chain abstraction trying to understand it as a concept looking at some of the risks and challenges around chain abstraction diving into a little bit of the tech behind chain abstraction uh and then looking at how Nia is using chain abstraction um and kind of where the the project thinks the chain ofra is going to take the industry joining us today is a co-founder from Nia Ilia the black dragon who's very popular across social media at the moment Ilia is fantastic to have here we start off by just getting a little introduction into yourself not that you need one and uh your thoughts on truction for sure hello hello everyone great to be here thanks for invite so yeah I'm IIA I'm co-founder of near previously uh was in machine learning and AI co-author of attention only need paper that introduced Transformers and kind of uh revolutionized a lot of modern Ai and now with near with we taking a lot of the uh kind of technological innovation to really bring the kind of final chapter of blockchain the chain obstruction uh to truly enable a billion users so we can dive in into that yeah it's very exciting is that a is that a near coin phrase the final chapter of blockchain is that something you guys are trailblazing I'm I'm I'm testing it out right now so well it landed good I like it I like it joining us on the panel as well here is uh one of the co-founders from Seda Jasper give us your thoughts on chain abstraction is it the uh the Final Chapter you'll quite bullish on it yourself it's definitely the next chapter uh and I think it's going to be a huge chapter for for sort like crypto and adoption um it's probably also going to be something that's not going to go away but but I mean I'm a techno Optimist like there's going to be next chapters after that there's going to be like new innovations that are going to like do cool things on the back end but yeah the the the title of the next chapter is for short chain instruction that's amazing well yeah I think yeah I mean just to mention I think the the way I I'm thinking about it is this is going to be the final narrative that doesn't have like anything behind it and it's actually from now on this is actually real use cases real usage and real uh kind of economy using blockchain so that's kind of what I meant by last chapter of kind of narratives and we start a new book of you know actually blockchain being used across the board nice yeah the chapter after that then will be like Mass adoption consumer ads it's interesting that you bring that up too because I mean Jasper we spoke with Flo earlier on in the series as well and we spoke with Celestia around modularity chain abstraction is probably the one concept that's come up in multiple episodes as like everyone sort of looking towards it and looking forward to it as well and consumer daps is kind of the thing that they connect to it right we are going to go in and explore all of that this being a sort of a bit of an educational series IIA let's just start at the beginning um before we go into what the future is going to look like with chain abstraction near is definitely a leader in the space you're definitely um trailblazing chain abstraction across web 3 at the moment can you just for the for the people listening give us a higher level what is chain abstraction and account abstraction yeah I mean the core idea of chain abstraction is that as a user you should not care about which chain the applications run on you want to receive the you know security you want to ensure that your assets are you know not going to kind of run away from you and there's no kind of additional country party risk but you don't really want to know exact implementation details exact uh you know which bridge to use to move between two chains you know which gas token is used on the other side you know that you need to install a different wallet provider because it doesn't work with this you know transaction message P like format and things like that like all the technical details of you know the differences between chains and the difference between kind of applications and so and this is like generally the natural extension that um we've been kind of as a space working on like how do we simplify user EXP experience right um having kind of you know just one private key a seat phrase that accesses your account is uh very insecure has a lot of ux challenges and uh there is a kind of uh in general being problem of un boarding people and kind of how to pay transaction fees uh when users start right this is where we actually started we we originally were trying to use blockchain for our own use case for data CR out sourcing in Ai and we had a ton of people who we wanted to pay money uh you know microtransactions you know 15 cents per task but for them to actually start using it they needed to buy crypto first which was very cont inuitive right it's like we're willing to pay people for work but you know before you can be employed you need to give us money or give somebody else money right so it's a very like weird kind of model and so account obstruction was kind of this original concept of kind of hiding a lot of that complexity uh allowing user kind of to unboard easily to use whatever convenient kind of login methods uh not pay transaction fees and then uh being able to potentially later switch to a more secure custody methods Etc but it's it wasn't like I would say hitting fully although like you know near have account obstruction from the day one we have you know over 10 million monthly active users because of this because it's so easy to new users and um The Challenge was it's like it was kind of localized each of the account abstraction ideas and methods have been localized to a specific chain and so if there's a cool stuff going on on whatever new Layer Two that just launched near users are not able to go there right and so and then as a developer you now have a choice right you're launching not based on where the best tech is for your application but but actually based on where you percept perceive the users and money will be right and so kind of the choices were like more about almost like gambling on where uh the users and and other people will go to versus actually like hey I'm launching my app and I'm growing it and it doesn't matter where users are coming from which is how web 2 works right so it was almost like if you imagine that people who you know choose Amazon web services the users will not be able to use Google Cloud applications right and you can to choose which cloud provider not based on what best suits for your problem but you know where the users are so chain of instruction is solving that you know bringing a whole set of tools uh to the market across you know near Cosmos ecosystem ethereum folks uh you guys to really tie it all up together abstract all this infrastructure and give users really convenient experience to navigate the whole that three there's an amazing summation J I don't know if you want to add anything on the cils yeah no I think it's it's super clear one question I have for IIA though is uh we're seeing sort of like different terms being thrown around that sort of say the same thing but it's not always the exact same thing like we're hearing intent which are kind of deeply intertwined with chain abstraction and then you have like a polygon coining the phrase sort of like account aggregation which I got into an argument with somebody with that I said it's the same thing they said it wasn't can you sort of like dive in sort of like these three buzzword that are being thrown around yeah I mean there's a lot of buzzword right so there is modularity intense orchestration aggregation uh and a bunch of other stuff and like the reality is all of those are Technologies to achieve chain obstruction so chain obstruction is what we're trying to achieve and then how we'll include a lot of Technologies right um and so intense is really kind of flipping the book right on uh sending transactions instead you're telling kind of somebody else to figure out how to achieve the result you want right so you don't really prescribe it you don't uh specify the steps you say what the final result you want and it works better for some use cases than others and there is kind of you know few projects that are building kind of more generic intent marketplaces there's more specific things for like swaps and other things um but it definitely is a good example of something that's abstract to block chain because now you can say well I have some Bitcoin and I want some bnk you know like I don't want to know how exactly this transaction happened just give me the amount of buk I want right and you know somebody somewhere will figure out how to you know swap Bitcoin for maybe usdc move usdc to salana and buy swap salana to soul and soul to Bon right but like as a user you don't really care now aggregation is and kind of some of the modularity I ideas are really coming from how do we ensure security of the whole system um as you have more chains and kind of abstracting this from a user and this is the idea that um between combination of data availability ZK proving kind of other Concepts like what I layers is producing providing you can actually tie together all of the different chains in kind of cross uh kind of cross settle in a cross settlement way in like security way where security is aggregated across all chains uh and so that's really just a kind of for me a lowlevel guarantee is that you want to have to ensure that chain abstraction is secure for users who don't really go under the hood and you know look up exactly how many validators are running on different app chain right and if like the subsets of validators are too intersecting between you know with another chain uh and finally I think there's a lot more kind of Technologies like what near we've been doing with chain signatures is really to provide that easy easy experience to navigate different chains right from one place right so again that example of Bitcoin to Bonk the reality is now you need to have address on salana and on every other chain on near on ethereum on EVMS on bitcoin and so with chain signatures what we do we actually turn your near account to have addresses everywhere and allow you to transact really easily without needing to like manually figure out how to pay uh transaction fees how to break how to create accounts how to manage the account obstruction of every single individual chain so all this Technologies they're all coming together powering this Vision uh and uh yeah it's really exciting to kind of see everyone coming together actually in this I mean obviously we also need oracles that providing information back uh between chains to create smart contracts that can uh transact across multiple chains uh with ease so all of those pieces uh really just part of the stack for chain extraction awesome um would you say that for the um NES uh like cross chain accounts like sort of like cross chain account abstraction product that you guys have build isn't that almost intent based where you say like hey I want to transact on like some different chain and I don't really care who does it or or how it happens I just want it to happen and then there's like a solver in the middle that actually performs the action for you based on the signature that you provide on um on near is that is that how I should picture it so it's part of it the core technology is actually doesn't prescribe that right the core technology just say uh this near count has a address on the other chain that uh now you can sign transaction for right and then on top we have kind of intent based relayer Network which when user says Hey I want to transact there but I I don't really care like which transaction fees are paid there Etc I just want to pay with sweat for example on near uh there's a Rel Network that picks it up you know uses the signing mechanism and then sends a transaction and pays for it on the other side so that's kind of the idea is like you can build Now intent based platforms on top uh and you can have you can imagine the swapping as well in the similar way right you can say like hey I want this Bitcoin to Bonk here's my address on salana right which is controlled by this account somebody go figure out how to do it so so kind of we we're opening up a opportunity for now for applications to build intent based uh apps with these very cool before we dive under the hood because I know chain ofu is all about like getting rid of the hood we definitely want to go under there I um I just wanted to understand because Jasper brought up a few different people that are all building towards this are we at risk of further fragmentation are we at risk of having chain abstraction multi standards that cannot communicate with each other I think um as a space we all trying to figure out how to solve this so and and we've been doing this chain obstruction days having kind of Cosmos and ethereum and you know visir and we inviting more folks to join um so I think that there is in Frontier been leaning a lot on standardization as well so I think like there is a dis kind of desire to like bring it all together now and it will probably take some time obviously like you know uh there's nothing uh worse than the standard that's invented in the lab that nobody else you know uses because uh it doesn't actually work with the real real uh use cases so I think it will be iterative process as we see some more chain of structured applications and wallets coming in they actually uh showcasing the like what's possible and then we'll kind of be standardizing around some of those you know kind of massive applications that have huge user bases uh but yeah I think like everyone kind of realizes that this is this is the way to go and so now it's you know it's it's a details under the hood but also few driving use cases with you know this million user applications it will probably do a lot more uh kind of be the kind of voice ination by like virtue of you know funneling millions of users and you know millions of dollars uh in whatever standard they prefer yeah the the question of who Aggregates the aggregators is something that comes up all the time um for sure real it's an issue but I think yeah you are seeing like a real Intent no pun intended of all the teams working on this to create standards for Gen obstruction which is good to see it reminds me of the old days of uh like RPC um standardization as well it feels like a really good moment too for web 3 know right because this is like the the ethos of web 3 like working together building together for this kind of decentralization but I am curious though if if we all work together for this standard of chain abstraction and and then we have all these single entry points to interact with all of web 3 if if you like what's it going to look like because right now we're kind of the competition I'm in marketing myself ear so the competition marketing is like you know getting your narrative or writing the right narrative and making enough noise to to rise above the all the noise of of web 3 when everyone's using chain abstraction what's sort of going to be the defining Factor do you see that people will to select which point of entry into web 3 they'll use yeah well I think a lot of it will become just how good your applications are and how good your gross uh kind of gross and uh gross marketing is Right which is somewhat similar to web 2 um except here you you as a user go around with your assets and with your data right there's no like kind of lock in so yeah it will get uh pushed up in a way to be a lot more application and kind of uh service competition in a way but at the same time like you know users will flock to what is better product which at the end you know users will win um and I think you know we have this application called dapdap right so it right now Aggregates 14 different layer tws it has over 160 different smart contracts accessible and all of it is from one UI right so you go to dab dab you sign in and you can transact across different layer twos with across lots of different smart contracts you don't need to switch BR browsers you don't need to switch tabs Etc now this is pre- chain signatures so with chain signatures you'll be able then to not switch networks and not figure out transaction fees and bridges but that's kind of the experience right we can imagine now the cool thing is every single app there is onchain uh meaning the front end of those apps is onchain so you can run a another application like this right for example you can have a desktop app or you can have you know a different customized version that for a specific Us Journey uh or for specific language or for specific you know audience um that provides a different experience right for uh different audiences so I I would expect a lot more kind of experiences like this to appear and be the driver for you know as the chain got like Chains Got abstracted the applications are now in a way aggregated and into those platforms uh you will be doing a lot more like what's a overall consumer product and experience for navigating it it's very exciting to hear too because I think I'm massive on end user experiences driving kind of adoption I think it just makes sense that the people we're appealing to that the people that we need to come in in the drow and I do want to hear more about um some of those applications that we can expect on year but before we do before we move out of segment one Jasper could you speak to a little bit um on the Chain abstraction stack because I know that we've been talking a little bit about it at Seda and I think it's a good way for people to understand exactly what is going on under the hood how do we make this a reality yeah I mean there is um so so essentially what you have is you have um the the idea is that you have sort of like entry points into like all of web 3 or crypto um and that um there's like a bunch of different layers like in the back end there on like what does what um I think that um what what we're focused on as seta within the chain uh chain abstraction stack is sort of like the settlement so you have these multiple layers that's why it's called the cake framework um where uh settlement essentially makes sure that the party that does the action that the user intends to do uh for for the user is able to get their reward uh pained out um yeah I I I don't have like the the details of like what exactly the stack other than that lays out we're we focused on what we're uh what we're supplying to the cake no no makes sense I mean um if anyone's interested I think on our on our timeline we did post about the frontier research that sort of Dove right into the stack uh it's a very interesting read and I guess it's still very early days like a lot of people joining and adding different layers to the stack when where they seem necessary being a new early Tech Ilia where does NIA sit in the stack there I guess is there a specific area of the stack that you're working on or you sort of covering all slices uh yeah I mean kind of the core piece that we working on is with chain signatures is this permission layer um and then we also have some other pieces around cement layer and application layer and solver layer so we have a little bit of in every piece you know you want a slice of the whole cake uh but uh spec like the the main focus of um kind of with the chain obstruction group is really uh to bring um the kind of this permission layer allow you know user accounts to really be kind of multi-chain natively and being able to transact across all of this and then allow everybody else to build in you know Rel layers solvers kind of intent execution and then settle on different layers as well but we do have you know da for rollups to help with security and element we have obviously near layer one which is you know performant scalable um fast finality to allow to settle kind of on as well uh and then we have uh decentralized front ends for building this applications gateways entry points um kind of in a truly decentralized way as well so kind of different pieces um of Technology available and people can pick and choose uh kind of for their use case what's the best kind of uh you know flavors of different layers they want with their slice of cake the urge to make cake p is very strong I could feel it across the P today which I love before we move on to um speaking a little bit around the fragmentation and and sort of the What's led into this chain abstraction I'm going to take a stab at walking through the audience through like a very high level example from a user point of view let me know how we go is this kind of what chain exraction looks like let's say Alice connects into a Dap on here and she has one eth that she wishes to stake Alice doesn't need to know which pool which chain the staking pool is on at all she just simply needs to click stake and then enter in the value of 1 e and at that point that's the that's the DAP layer she's now interacted with the D and then the second layer would be the permission layer which you're speaking to where you would check the wallet you'll make the signatures so we're talking about wallets and keys they'll make sure that the eth is in there they'll make sure that she has an address on the right chain that can sign uh on that behalf very high level here and then that will be broadcasted to solvers who are sitting in the solver layer who basically then return a possible pathway possible transaction fee possible transaction speed and likelihood of the transaction going through to which Alice will then confirm like we do with transactions at the moment uh we'll choose the maybe they she will choose choose the the the best solver transaction or the best one will just come up based on predefined parameters we don't know but she selects that then the solver goes off and actually complete compete completes her action of staking that eth by doing it with their own liquidity so they go off to destination chain they state that eth on there and then in the settlement layer we're looking at things like Seda which are then looking at destination chain saying hey this action has happened we can send an execution proof across to the origin chain and then the origin chain can can have that settled saying that the action has happened the solver then collects their fee for doing that action but as far as Alice is aware she's only St one e and she's only had to click a couple of buttons is that about the the long and short of it yeah I think high level this is a good description I think to make it even more fun you can imagine like Alice actually has you know a Bitcoin and she wants to stake e and so she definitely doesn't want to figure out how to swap that Bitcoin for E how to set up e wallet and how to deal with all that so like that kind of you know identifying that intent saying like hey I just want to stake one e you know check out how much Bitcoin you need from Bitcoins to do that and execute this and so yeah you'll have kind of uh solers or that are figuring out you know like how much they would charge for that and then uh execute that from an account that Alice controls but is kind of in in this relayer smart contract a lot allwing pretty much your layers to also top it up put money into it and execute actions on behalf of Alice and that's kind of one of the Innovations we're bringing is this kind of indirection that uh solvers or gas layers are able to do uh on behalf of the account on different chains uh without and then kind of without like fully custody somebody else's account and at the same time something like seta can then bring information back saying like yes it went through one is a stake you know release the fee and uh kind of the Bitcoin to the to whoever executed this I'm glad you were willing to go a little bit deeper and have more fun with that because I do not dare yet it's still such a complex complx stack that we're they're working around we actually got a really cool thread coming out later today for anyone who is uh interested and also jump over to near documentation you guys have a lot of really really good blogs sort of explaining through chain abstraction and account abstraction I want to sort of take a step back we kind understand what chain abstraction is doing at the moment but I want to say has near have you at near always been building towards chain abstraction or account abstraction or is this something that's come out of um fragmentation due due to modularity no we actually from the start kind of we're building with chain abstraction in mind um it just was limited to near we wanted to abstract the near blockchain so that users and even to some extent developers can deal minimally with the infrastructure kind of complexity right so the example being near blockchain itself is actually a shed blockchain we have a lot of you know imagine like rollups running under the hood but like I don't want any developer user know about knowing about this right and so if you go to our explorers and to our ballets Etc you will never see anything about shards anything about kind of that thing although March we actually added two more shards expanding capacity of the network by 50% right and so like for users it should be like hey you know like things are just more capacity you know transaction fee transactions going faster you can process more transactions and for developers same they don't they shouldn't know about this similarly on account model we have meta transactions we have you know very programmable account model that allows to have like different access keys and so kind of the account abstraction at at a very high level uh as well as you can actually turn your account into nft for example uh and you know sell it and somebody else buy it and and kind of uh claim uh and set up set up its own permissions for it so there's a lot of flexibility built into this again all for how to enable developers when they build applications to hide the complexity of the blockchain so that users ideally don't know uh when they start you that they're using blockchain and then over time just become kind of more progressively uh richer users of this ecosystem now somewhere end of 22 is where we kind of went from okay we're going to only build for near and this is going to be all near stack to like actually multichain is happening and there is an opportunity to actually bring a lot of this philosophy and a lot of this uh kind of functionality that we have across the whole web 3 and so we started uh kind of chain signatures project as well the decentralized front ends uh around that time to really kind of bring this idea of tying all of this together and like what became now chain abstraction uh and uh and pretty much offering this now not just for you know near but also like working with other chains working across you know the whole web three connecting this allowing tools to work uh M multi-chain fashion so that's kind of the transition so like always ch chain abstraction but it was kind of one chain now we are you know let's abstract all the multi-chain web three world it's an amazing uh journey to and it's glad to see that everyone else is getting on it as well cuz I for one you know adoption is always something that we're talking about in marketing but it's just going to come I mean we've said it earlier in the space it's just going to come through easy user experiences Jasper and I were throwing around some analogies this morning and one of the ones that we were talking about is this idea that you know you have your phone which gives you all your end user experiences you use your apps in there you're messaging whatever it is that you want to do entertainment or other and it's like the the Telecom carrier in the background that's making all that happen is irrelevant to the to the majority of users you know when we change countries we we don't really care who who the carrier is we just kind of want that experience so I'm very excited to hear that you know you guys have made such such leeway with it and a lot of people also joining into that conversation as well but I do wanted to speak a little bit and maybe Jasper you can lean in we were talking about this the other day um any new technology any kind of new narrative always comes with risks and challenges um one of the things Jas I'd love to hear more on with you is like this kind of concept of a solvent Monopoly can you speak a little bit more about some of those Securities and risks J do you want to go first yeah can you cannot hear me right okay we can can yeah we can hear you okay okay cool um yeah so I think that the the risk for sort of that I talked about with solvers is what you want to avoid is with the sort of like more intent Centric Solutions where you rely on solvers there is this of like increased threat of censorship I'd say because essentially what happens is solvers or solving for intent networks will be hyper hyper competitive which means that the margins will be very very thin and what you see in sort of like these hyper competitive markets often is that people either specialize for a certain subset of intents that they will solve for or they will do like Acquisitions and Partnerships with people that have large part of the sort of like intent solving stack uh in order to maybe be able to get like a little bit larger margins by being like a more more efficient like larger entity and I think what what has been sort of like the horror story that's been pitched from beginning with networks like this or like systems like this is that you know the only people that will be able to compete on the software stack will be the citadels of the world and uh they will essentially uh filter out certain transactions or sensor transactions based on government regulations Etc and I I think one of the arguments against it is like it's fine as long as you still allow then third party solvers to come in and still execute on those intents for example uh maybe for a little bit higher fee right so you have like specialized intent solvers that uh just do the things that for example a government would not like it to do um or or like a citadel doesn't want to touch because I don't know religious reasons or whatever um yeah so so I think that is both the sort of like uh strawman for for sort of like these TR instructions networks and the Steelman of like why the system still better than sort of like a trly system um what what other sort of like risks do you see IIA yeah I mean I definitely second that um kind of if it's purely uh you know kind of higher stake system uh for for solvers this has kind of tremendous issues so you do do want as permissionless as possible ability for anyone to come in I know man is actually you know doing a lot of work on the peer-to-peer gos of network for intents to enable pretty much a way for kind of propagate intents across the network uh even without you know like you don't know who will be able to satisfy it right so you can kind of flood the network with it um and make sure that there is someone who can who can pick this up right so instead of a more stake based systems like some other uh platforms um I think the other biggest question from my side has been privacy right I think we have a pretty much uh ridiculous state of privacy in blockchain where everything is public and kind of traceable and I think with chain abstraction because like on one side we're trying to achieve extremely easy convenience of usage uh users May don't even understand that they like Rev ring you know when they doing something we're revealing their Whole Net wors when they paying for coffee right which is also happens right now but kind of generally you know right now it's fixed by the worst terrible ux which is you know set up a new wallet you know go through an exchange to fund it uh and uh but going forward again we trying to fix that ux so that you can just pay for coffee with your uh with your wallet but the same time this means like at the current level of privacy will have a insane kind of leage of information and so one of the things that I proposed is creating kind of a privacy shield around uh for chain signatures between who submits a transaction your kind of specific addresses on uh on different chains and you can think of this as almost like a UT like you know like unspanned outputs but like it's like one time usage accounts that you can have that nobody can link back to you that you can they are still transparent and you know you can see that you paid for C but nobody knows that this is you and this was used only for that one transaction so you can have like ways to uh avoid this but we really need to focus and actually invest in in developing that because otherwise yeah we'll we'll kind of actually be in a worser state of privacy and we're already in pretty bad State I think another um other part of privacy concerns is actually uh m because if you expose your intent you expose what you want to do you're essentially opening up the gates for like a bunch of bad actions like what's the flood Center quote your intents will be used against you right like people will know what the maximum is you're willing to pay for something and it always they could take the maximum or there is uh like don't know you'll definitely get f r uh on whatever sort of like Delta of me your your intent exposes so I think that's another uh interesting one um yeah ask you on that when because the some of these intents are going to be like cross chain potentially more than two blockchains right like depending on how intricate people are getting the when the intent goes into like the mle I guess this kind of idea that these intents are all sitting there and the and the solvers are um you know the solers are looking at how they're going to solve these intents is is there an opportunity instead of just having me attacks on on one chain you could set Bots up that will then be able to take advantage of that whole flow well I think I think it's like a different like I would say in general for intense it's not M it's just the solvers is capturing the whatever is on the table right and so I think the general idea here is you need to be able to specify more kind of sophisticated intent versus you saying like hey I'm willing to you know sell one Bitcoin for whatever e you like usually you would want to always have a limit order now the problem is limit orders have their own limitations right uh depending on what's going on in the market and so uh which like why you know most most the don't get fulfilled and so what you will need to do is specify some potentially a more sophisticated formula which says like you know based on like last X trade or whatever like I will only accept price that's above like 05% of that right like you'll need to actually have a lot more uh kind of detailed specification there now this is not user specifying right this is the front end of the application that will actually like have that similarly how right now there's like a 0. five% slipage you know requirement that you know you can kind of customize but it's you know there like I think we'll need like a kind of a little bit more sophisticated approach there uh but generally I think we'll see also a little bit different exchanges that will be um so like for near for example change signatures you can imagine exchange where you deposit all assets into your kind of chain signature address like kind of remote addresses and now you can unne trade extremely fast with you know one second blocks and you know a fraction of a fee all of these assets and so like your intent are here and then you can withdraw from there right so like you can have a little bit different structure which allows to uh kind of solve intend more localized and prevent a lot of the front running uh n also has like you know when you include transaction uh it executes in next block and it's like a specific order like ordering is defined in in a little bit different way so like there's a lot of mechanisms there's also like shielded pools now shielded man pools and other stuff that's available uh but you need to design kind of with a specific use case in mind because I think part of this is like generically MV is not solvable for a specific use case you can find approaches to mitigate it to a big extent yep I think a lot of the responsibility of me mitigation will shift to Applications uh with these uh uh I think actually a lot of everything will shift applications a lot of value will shift applications I think as soon as chain abstraction becomes a thing I think a lot of responsibilities and uh yeah it's really up to the applications then to to make sure that they're maximizing their sort of like use of of J instruction it's it's cool yeah and this is why like the differentiation will be in in how this application is delivering experience pretty much like you know if your application is not handling MV well and there's like solvers capturing all that value then well users will switch to something that's like handling that way better with with all the steps in chain abstraction and and kind of thinking about like redesigning to capture things like or to to mitigate as you put it earlier like me and these kind of ideas how much are we damaging the transaction speed for the user the things slowing down drastically is that something that needs to be considered yeah I think it depends on the specific use case as well um because if you imagine like spping Bitcoin for ethereum like your current you transaction time is pretty much I don't know a 30 minutes easy um unless you're in centralized exchange so uh and this is actually like one point I like to point out is that the current state of multichain experience is a centralized exchange like it's not actually the bridges it's centralized exchange centralized exchange has way more users than any like individual chain comined because it provides you a multi-chain experience uh and so with chain abstraction we're trying to bring that experience but you know in decentralized kind of self Gusto way and so uh so I think like for many use cases you actually getting like di time cut down massively because you don't need to like figure out Bridges figure out gas tokens like you know how many times people have like sent usdc to another chain and then realize they need to like gas token as well and so need to go in like back and and you cannot swap USC on that chain because you don't have gas tokens like just that's a standard problem of of everything right um so on the other side like I mean for some for some things um I mean there like a little bit of like I guess again this chain signature specifically there can be a little bit of additional latency was intense there can be a little bit of additional latency but uh again it um it pays off as like way improved convenience and potentially even better like filling rate because now uh you kind of not again going to a single party but also like trying to find a best price trying to find best execution um and again there near like for some of the use cases for example ordinals right you can deposit ordinal into your uh remote account and now you will have an nft on near which you can trade with one second time right which you know again with ordinals it sometimes takes like six hours to transfer it so so you I mean with ethereum it will take 12 seconds you know on a good day and $50 so like you can have an interesting ways where uh without much uh kind of security reduction you are able to speed up things uh but also you can like withdraw it very easily as well so so it really depends on use case and kind of application yeah I guess the uh the current standard hasn't really been set too high you know trying to smash transaction seconds off the board um and also man I wish you know if I had a doll off every time I had to message A friend of mine say hey can you send me some some gas tokens to to this address I just sent money across and I can't get it out so I definitely uh resonate with that while we've been chatting it seems that we're kind of been alluding to like defi as the general use case here like Financial actions as the general use case but I mean there's all kinds of other use cases happening in web through right now there's web through gaming social fly so many things popping up I want to speak a little bit before we wrap up the end of the hour what's near like kind of what are the use cases that you're building for what can we expect on near is it primarily defi or does chain abstraction also help other Industries other categories sorry yeah it's pretty generic so I mean we see people using it across obviously Define Finance I mean payments you know somebody was telling me that they have an offramp you know into credit cards and Apple pay and you know right now they need to manually integrate every chain and you know figure out how to un Every Chain to do like smart contract smart contract account deposit Etc or they can use near right and do it kind of across all accounts across all chains across all tokens um then we have you know things like sweatcoin which is the new types of assets and now you can you know go and interact with any application across all chains right you know you want to buy Unstoppable domain boom uh it doesn't matter that it's on BNB you want to you know get a madlad nft boom doesn't matter that it's on salana right like as a user you don't really care about that so really opening up they're like you know over 10 million uh like they have 150 million stalls uh over I think 20 million users having accounts um to this like multi-chain world uh we see uh things like I mean kind of gaming nft where people have ISU an asset on polygon for example but then building a game on another chain right like okay well how do you link those things how do you make it really easy to interact so there's a lot of various use cases and I think like the multi-chain like fragmentation right that uh we talked a little bit before is just kind of naturally pushes people to like okay well we need to figure out how to solve it right you know if you talk with companies as well like nobody now wants to bat on the one specific chain because like tomorrow you know Bas is popping you know Day After Tomorrow everybody's going to flock to uh whatever new hot layer 2 and so like users want and developers want to have this flexibility uh and kind of linking things together right like hey you know what if farcaster moves you know they after tomorrow to another to all three for example now everybody needs to like re-register accounts move all of their money Etc like that's not uh you know feasible nice I have a a question uh that you let into beautifully there I think that a lot of the sort of like Network effect we've seen in crypto historically has been uh due to sort of like this synchronous composability we're seeing in all these l1s uh due to fragmentation that's broken right like we have all these chains all these other ones and the ux is worse than even like uh I don't know some asynchronous cross contract calls or or asynchronous transactions it's just you know you need to break Bridge through some third party and then I think so I think a lot of the sort of like concerns there are being negated by uh J abstraction and then could you argue that intents it like cross chain intents remove the need for um synchronous composability yeah I mean this is the argument near had from day one right so near is the probably the only like asynchronous first uh blockchain where every single cross contract call is asynchronous and that's because our kind of hypothesis from the start was if you want to scale you will need to deal with a synchrony and so may as well just like put it heads on and you know make it the best synchrony possible uh now it comes with obviously limitations right you cannot have you know like a crazy flash loan that goes through 50 different smart contracts uh but maybe that's a good thing uh so uh uh in turn though that's why kind of near is really good place for a lot of the things is because we've designed asynchronous token standards we designed kind of a lot of as synchronicity uh you know thinking across the board and there's other teams like a goric and uh that been thinking about this as well so um so I would say that uh yes for the most part we will transition to a lot more more as synchronous compossibility um if you have enough secure security kind of unification aggregation happening you able to achieve really interesting results and yes you're missing maybe some kind of Primitives like again flesh loans being an example probably you're not going to be able to like flesh loan for Bitcoin you know swap it to ethereum and uh you know do something and swap it back um but you're uh you can you know the user level things are are pretty easy to do and the Arbitrage and the the like the things that like happening right now because of the synchronous capability is really the professional level uh kind of transactions that we'll see people doing on a low level kind of I would say like important probably concept is we expect there will be sophisticated parties like Sol Who Running solvers Who Running market makers who running kind of Arbitrage who are actually executing this and they have lower level understanding of each individual chain how to optimize for it how to submit transaction effectively you know how to find peers in the network uh to effectively you know put transaction from next block producer uh you don't expect normal users to do all that right which is kind of the current expectation like you actually need like to connect to a right RPC that will relay your transaction in the right way otherwise you're getting sandwiched by whatever's the next uh you know M uh boost is happening and so here we expect yeah as a user just prescribe your end result and there's sophisticated actors who are actually uh leveraging whatever the specific details of the blockchains are um but yeah as a user you get kind of asynchronous compatibility across the whole web3 yeah and but it feels almost synchronous right because you say like hey I want to do these things on all these different chains and it will just get done or not at all right yeah yeah you because you just describing the result yeah in many cases uh you can achieve kind of the atomicity right um that it gets executed or not although again it's application specific because I'm assuming you know some applications will offer like partial executions because you actually won that yeah yeah and so yeah that makes sense all all the benefit of both essentially right like best Developers yeah developers can pretty much leverage any of the any of these options was is this the just as as we come to the last few minutes is this the end of crypto maximalism as we know it you know culture yeah I mean it's such an exciting part of everyone's day in crypto to get on crypto Twitter and get behind your favorite colors get on your favorite meme I think we still will have that I think I think it's not going anywhere uh you know we'll have like I can imagine you know you can right now with chain signatures build I call it an omni token like a token that's available in every chain at once and even if we like spin up a new roll up right now it will be available there already and uh you can imagine that becoming you know Meme tokens that like are everywhere and it doesn't matter which chain you're on um but then at the same time you can imagine like people are kind of similarly how the people vote for their teams uh you know in sports like you know there's not a that dramatic difference like there's no 10x difference in team in professional teams and sports uh but you know people vote for whatever team they're they're closest is so I think that you know we'll we'll continue seeing some of that uh but I I do think like a fundamental maximalism will go away right like where you know people arguing that like my chain is better because I'll have you know all the users uh in in five years like that that type of thing should go away I fully agree it will be like people will have maximalism for certain applications maybe I think some of the sort of like maximalism will seep through up uh will bubble up into the application layer now but uh nobody's arguing about what their favorite intranet is or internet provider right you're saying you're not into 192 168 uh 2.7 yeah or or or or even better like there probably will still be maximm amongst devs just as there is maximalism among deaths around sort of like AWS versus Google Cloud versus sort of like the cloud providers right like there's some people that are very passionate about one over the other so I think some deps will have like very strong preferences but users in the end who only care about the application and I think we're very very close to that reality and it's exciting I agree which is super good because it's very easy to get uh much more growth when you have your users going into bat for your application by showing the actual Eng user experience to other users so that's a you know it's a win that they're having web too all we could go on all day about chain abstraction and I'm very very excited to see uh where it goes what it looks like for near what it looks like for everyone in the cake framework if you've been listening along to these episodes I did just drop the pup link uh so go yourself a pup and you go to the raffle to win some SATA tokens this was the the last episode of our series IIA it was absolutely fantastic um to have you any last words for for near yeah I mean I'm encouraging everyone to check out the docs uh for change signatures uh I think like if you are you know launching an application thinking of application this is the tool for you and then you can also use any other blockchain and any other kind of blog space around the world uh to really uh leverage that and uh otherwise I encourage everyone to try out applications like dabdab sweatcoin and others who actually bringing this uh chain abstraction to life uh for the end user and dabdab has points so you know that's that'll do it that'll get the people over there you watch The Flop now fantastic Elia amazing uh Jasper any last words something big happening at the end of this week perhaps with the s crew yeah we're announcing uh the first version of our chain uh like the launch date end of this week so keep your eyes open for that should be should be announced sometime tomorrow could possibly potentially be announced sometime tomorrow look forward to it Jasper thanks for your time as always thank you IIA for your time as well and thanks everyone for joining in it's been a fantastic series look forward to speaking to you again in the future sometime IIA all right thanks for inviting guys all right now thank you bye bye","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T06:04:43.763Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":1,"text":"all right double hit GM GM here we are for another episode the last episode episode","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1s"},{"start_seconds":9,"text":"seven of our s the Le mini series in episode seven we are discussing chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=9s"},{"start_seconds":16,"text":"abstraction which I'm super super excited to be discussing especially on the back of discussing things around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=16s"},{"start_seconds":23,"text":"modularity and fragmentation uh chain abstraction looks to be the hero that might save the industry so very very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=23s"},{"start_seconds":30,"text":"excited today we'll be discussing a little bit around what is chain abstraction trying to understand it as a concept looking at some of the risks and challenges around chain abstraction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=30s"},{"start_seconds":38,"text":"diving into a little bit of the tech behind chain abstraction uh and then looking at how Nia is using chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=38s"},{"start_seconds":45,"text":"abstraction um and kind of where the the project thinks the chain ofra is going to take the industry joining us today is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=45s"},{"start_seconds":53,"text":"a co-founder from Nia Ilia the black dragon who's very popular across social media at the moment Ilia is fantastic to have here we start off by just getting a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=53s"},{"start_seconds":61,"text":"little introduction into yourself not that you need one and uh your thoughts on truction for sure hello hello everyone great to be here thanks for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=61s"},{"start_seconds":69,"text":"invite so yeah I'm IIA I'm co-founder of near previously uh was in machine","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=69s"},{"start_seconds":76,"text":"learning and AI co-author of attention only need paper that introduced Transformers and kind of uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=76s"},{"start_seconds":85,"text":"revolutionized a lot of modern Ai and now with near with we taking a lot of the uh kind of technological innovation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=85s"},{"start_seconds":93,"text":"to really bring the kind of final chapter of blockchain the chain obstruction uh to truly enable a billion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=93s"},{"start_seconds":101,"text":"users so we can dive in into that yeah it's very exciting is that a is that a near coin phrase the final","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=101s"},{"start_seconds":109,"text":"chapter of blockchain is that something you guys are trailblazing I'm I'm I'm testing it out right now so well it landed good I like it I like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=109s"},{"start_seconds":118,"text":"it joining us on the panel as well here is uh one of the co-founders from Seda Jasper give us your thoughts on chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=118s"},{"start_seconds":125,"text":"abstraction is it the uh the Final Chapter you'll quite bullish on it yourself it's definitely the next chapter uh and I think it's going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=125s"},{"start_seconds":134,"text":"a huge chapter for for sort like crypto and adoption um it's probably also going to be something that's not going to go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=134s"},{"start_seconds":142,"text":"away but but I mean I'm a techno Optimist like there's going to be next chapters after that there's going to be like new innovations that are going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=142s"},{"start_seconds":150,"text":"like do cool things on the back end but yeah the the the title of the next chapter is for short chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=150s"},{"start_seconds":157,"text":"instruction that's amazing well yeah I think yeah I mean just to mention I think the the way I I'm thinking about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=157s"},{"start_seconds":166,"text":"it is this is going to be the final narrative that doesn't have like anything behind it and it's actually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=166s"},{"start_seconds":173,"text":"from now on this is actually real use cases real usage and real uh kind of economy using blockchain so that's kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=173s"},{"start_seconds":181,"text":"of what I meant by last chapter of kind of narratives and we start a new book of you know actually blockchain being used","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=181s"},{"start_seconds":188,"text":"across the board nice yeah the chapter after that then will be like Mass adoption consumer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=188s"},{"start_seconds":195,"text":"ads it's interesting that you bring that up too because I mean Jasper we spoke with Flo earlier on in the series as well and we spoke with Celestia around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=195s"},{"start_seconds":203,"text":"modularity chain abstraction is probably the one concept that's come up in multiple episodes as like everyone sort of looking towards it and looking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=203s"},{"start_seconds":212,"text":"forward to it as well and consumer daps is kind of the thing that they connect to it right we are going to go in and explore all of that this being a sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=212s"},{"start_seconds":220,"text":"a bit of an educational series IIA let's just start at the beginning um before we go into what the future is going to look like with chain abstraction near is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=220s"},{"start_seconds":228,"text":"definitely a leader in the space you're definitely um trailblazing chain abstraction across web 3 at the moment can you just for the for the people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=228s"},{"start_seconds":236,"text":"listening give us a higher level what is chain abstraction and account abstraction yeah I mean the core idea of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=236s"},{"start_seconds":244,"text":"chain abstraction is that as a user you should not care about which chain the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=244s"},{"start_seconds":250,"text":"applications run on you want to receive the you know security you want to ensure that your assets are you know not going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=250s"},{"start_seconds":259,"text":"to kind of run away from you and there's no kind of additional country party risk but you don't really want to know exact","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=259s"},{"start_seconds":267,"text":"implementation details exact uh you know which bridge to use to move between two chains you know which gas token is used","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=267s"},{"start_seconds":274,"text":"on the other side you know that you need to install a different wallet provider because it doesn't work with this you know transaction message P like format","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=274s"},{"start_seconds":282,"text":"and things like that like all the technical details of you know the differences between chains and the difference between kind of applications and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=282s"},{"start_seconds":290,"text":"so and this is like generally the natural extension that um we've been kind of as a space working on like how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=290s"},{"start_seconds":298,"text":"do we simplify user EXP experience right um having kind of you know just one private key a seat phrase that accesses","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=298s"},{"start_seconds":306,"text":"your account is uh very insecure has a lot of ux","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=306s"},{"start_seconds":312,"text":"challenges and uh there is a kind of uh in general being problem of un boarding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=312s"},{"start_seconds":320,"text":"people and kind of how to pay transaction fees uh when users start right this is where we actually started we we originally were trying to use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=320s"},{"start_seconds":327,"text":"blockchain for our own use case for data CR out sourcing in Ai and we had a ton of people who we wanted to pay money uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=327s"},{"start_seconds":335,"text":"you know microtransactions you know 15 cents per task but for them to actually start using it they needed to buy crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=335s"},{"start_seconds":342,"text":"first which was very cont inuitive right it's like we're willing to pay people for work but you know before you can be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=342s"},{"start_seconds":350,"text":"employed you need to give us money or give somebody else money right so it's a very like weird kind of model and so account obstruction was kind of this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=350s"},{"start_seconds":357,"text":"original concept of kind of hiding a lot of that complexity uh allowing user kind of to unboard easily to use whatever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=357s"},{"start_seconds":365,"text":"convenient kind of login methods uh not pay transaction fees and then uh being","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=365s"},{"start_seconds":372,"text":"able to potentially later switch to a more secure custody methods Etc but it's it wasn't like I would say hitting fully","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=372s"},{"start_seconds":380,"text":"although like you know near have account obstruction from the day one we have you know over 10 million monthly active users because of this because it's so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=380s"},{"start_seconds":389,"text":"easy to new users and um The Challenge was it's like it was kind of localized each of the account abstraction ideas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=389s"},{"start_seconds":397,"text":"and methods have been localized to a specific chain and so if there's a cool stuff going on on whatever new Layer Two","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=397s"},{"start_seconds":404,"text":"that just launched near users are not able to go there right and so and then as a developer you now have a choice","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=404s"},{"start_seconds":411,"text":"right you're launching not based on where the best tech is for your application but but actually based on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=411s"},{"start_seconds":418,"text":"where you percept perceive the users and money will be right and so kind of the choices were like more about almost like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=418s"},{"start_seconds":425,"text":"gambling on where uh the users and and other people will go to versus actually like hey I'm launching my app and I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=425s"},{"start_seconds":433,"text":"growing it and it doesn't matter where users are coming from which is how web 2 works right so it was almost like if you imagine that people who you know choose","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=433s"},{"start_seconds":442,"text":"Amazon web services the users will not be able to use Google Cloud applications right and you can to choose which cloud","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=442s"},{"start_seconds":450,"text":"provider not based on what best suits for your problem but you know where the users are so chain of instruction is solving that you know bringing a whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=450s"},{"start_seconds":458,"text":"set of tools uh to the market across you know near Cosmos ecosystem ethereum folks uh you guys to really tie it all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=458s"},{"start_seconds":467,"text":"up together abstract all this infrastructure and give users really convenient experience to navigate the whole that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=467s"},{"start_seconds":474,"text":"three there's an amazing summation J I don't know if you want to add anything on the cils yeah no I think it's it's super clear","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=474s"},{"start_seconds":483,"text":"one question I have for IIA though is uh we're seeing sort of like different terms being thrown around that sort of say the same thing but it's not always","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=483s"},{"start_seconds":492,"text":"the exact same thing like we're hearing intent which are kind of deeply intertwined with chain abstraction and then you have like a polygon coining the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=492s"},{"start_seconds":501,"text":"phrase sort of like account aggregation which I got into an argument with somebody with that I said it's the same thing they said it wasn't can you sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=501s"},{"start_seconds":508,"text":"of like dive in sort of like these three buzzword that are being thrown around yeah I mean there's a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=508s"},{"start_seconds":515,"text":"buzzword right so there is modularity intense orchestration aggregation uh and a bunch of other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=515s"},{"start_seconds":522,"text":"stuff and like the reality is all of those are Technologies to achieve chain obstruction so chain obstruction is what we're trying to achieve and then how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=522s"},{"start_seconds":530,"text":"we'll include a lot of Technologies right um and so intense is really kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=530s"},{"start_seconds":536,"text":"of flipping the book right on uh sending transactions instead you're telling kind of somebody else to figure out how to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=536s"},{"start_seconds":545,"text":"achieve the result you want right so you don't really prescribe it you don't uh specify the steps you say what the final","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=545s"},{"start_seconds":552,"text":"result you want and it works better for some use cases than others and there is kind of you know few projects that are building kind of more generic intent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=552s"},{"start_seconds":561,"text":"marketplaces there's more specific things for like swaps and other things um but it definitely is a good example of something that's abstract to block","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=561s"},{"start_seconds":569,"text":"chain because now you can say well I have some Bitcoin and I want some bnk you know like I don't want to know how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=569s"},{"start_seconds":576,"text":"exactly this transaction happened just give me the amount of buk I want right and you know somebody somewhere will figure out how to you know swap Bitcoin","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=576s"},{"start_seconds":585,"text":"for maybe usdc move usdc to salana and buy swap salana to soul and soul to Bon right but like as a user you don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=585s"},{"start_seconds":593,"text":"really care now aggregation is and kind of some of the modularity I ideas are really coming from how do we ensure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=593s"},{"start_seconds":601,"text":"security of the whole system um as you have more chains and kind of abstracting this from a user and this is the idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=601s"},{"start_seconds":609,"text":"that um between combination of data availability ZK proving kind of other Concepts like what I layers is producing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=609s"},{"start_seconds":617,"text":"providing you can actually tie together all of the different chains in kind of cross uh kind of cross settle in a cross","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=617s"},{"start_seconds":625,"text":"settlement way in like security way where security is aggregated across all chains uh and so that's really just a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=625s"},{"start_seconds":632,"text":"kind of for me a lowlevel guarantee is that you want to have to ensure that chain abstraction is secure for users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=632s"},{"start_seconds":639,"text":"who don't really go under the hood and you know look up exactly how many validators are running on different app chain right and if like the subsets of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=639s"},{"start_seconds":648,"text":"validators are too intersecting between you know with another chain uh and finally I think there's a lot more kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=648s"},{"start_seconds":656,"text":"of Technologies like what near we've been doing with chain signatures is really to provide that easy easy experience to navigate different chains","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=656s"},{"start_seconds":664,"text":"right from one place right so again that example of Bitcoin to Bonk the reality is now you need to have address on salana and on every other chain on near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=664s"},{"start_seconds":673,"text":"on ethereum on EVMS on bitcoin and so with chain signatures what we do we actually turn your near account to have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=673s"},{"start_seconds":680,"text":"addresses everywhere and allow you to transact really easily without needing to like manually figure out how to pay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=680s"},{"start_seconds":687,"text":"uh transaction fees how to break how to create accounts how to manage the account obstruction of every single","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=687s"},{"start_seconds":694,"text":"individual chain so all this Technologies they're all coming together powering this Vision uh and uh yeah it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=694s"},{"start_seconds":702,"text":"really exciting to kind of see everyone coming together actually in this I mean obviously we also need oracles that providing information back uh between","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=702s"},{"start_seconds":710,"text":"chains to create smart contracts that can uh transact across multiple chains uh with ease so all of those pieces uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=710s"},{"start_seconds":718,"text":"really just part of the stack for chain extraction awesome um would you say that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=718s"},{"start_seconds":724,"text":"for the um NES uh like cross chain accounts like sort of like cross chain account abstraction product that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=724s"},{"start_seconds":732,"text":"guys have build isn't that almost intent based where you say like hey I want to transact on like some different chain and I don't really care who does it or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=732s"},{"start_seconds":741,"text":"or how it happens I just want it to happen and then there's like a solver in the middle that actually performs the action for you based on the signature that you provide on um on near is that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=741s"},{"start_seconds":750,"text":"is that how I should picture it so it's part of it the core technology is actually doesn't prescribe that right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=750s"},{"start_seconds":757,"text":"the core technology just say uh this near count has a address on the other chain that uh now you can sign","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=757s"},{"start_seconds":766,"text":"transaction for right and then on top we have kind of intent based relayer Network which when user says Hey I want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=766s"},{"start_seconds":774,"text":"to transact there but I I don't really care like which transaction fees are paid there Etc I just want to pay with sweat for example on near uh there's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=774s"},{"start_seconds":784,"text":"Rel Network that picks it up you know uses the signing mechanism and then sends a transaction and pays for it on the other side so that's kind of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=784s"},{"start_seconds":792,"text":"idea is like you can build Now intent based platforms on top uh and you can have you can imagine the swapping as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=792s"},{"start_seconds":799,"text":"well in the similar way right you can say like hey I want this Bitcoin to Bonk here's my address on salana right which is controlled by this account somebody","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=799s"},{"start_seconds":807,"text":"go figure out how to do it so so kind of we we're opening up a opportunity for now for applications to build intent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=807s"},{"start_seconds":814,"text":"based uh apps with these very cool before we dive under the hood","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=814s"},{"start_seconds":821,"text":"because I know chain ofu is all about like getting rid of the hood we definitely want to go under there I um I just wanted to understand because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=821s"},{"start_seconds":830,"text":"Jasper brought up a few different people that are all building towards this are we at risk of further fragmentation are we at risk of having chain abstraction multi standards that cannot communicate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=830s"},{"start_seconds":838,"text":"with each other I think um as a space we all trying to figure out how to solve this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=838s"},{"start_seconds":847,"text":"so and and we've been doing this chain obstruction days having kind of Cosmos and ethereum and you know visir and we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=847s"},{"start_seconds":854,"text":"inviting more folks to join um so I think that there is in Frontier been leaning a lot on standardization as well so I think like there is a dis kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=854s"},{"start_seconds":862,"text":"desire to like bring it all together now and it will probably take some time obviously like you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=862s"},{"start_seconds":869,"text":"uh there's nothing uh worse than the standard that's invented in the lab that nobody else you know uses because uh it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=869s"},{"start_seconds":877,"text":"doesn't actually work with the real real uh use cases so I think it will be iterative process as we see some more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=877s"},{"start_seconds":885,"text":"chain of structured applications and wallets coming in they actually uh showcasing the like what's possible and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=885s"},{"start_seconds":892,"text":"then we'll kind of be standardizing around some of those you know kind of massive applications that have huge user bases","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=892s"},{"start_seconds":899,"text":"uh but yeah I think like everyone kind of realizes that this is this is the way to go and so now it's you know it's it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=899s"},{"start_seconds":907,"text":"a details under the hood but also few driving use cases with you know this million user applications it will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=907s"},{"start_seconds":915,"text":"probably do a lot more uh kind of be the kind of voice ination by like virtue of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=915s"},{"start_seconds":922,"text":"you know funneling millions of users and you know millions of dollars uh in whatever standard they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=922s"},{"start_seconds":930,"text":"prefer yeah the the question of who Aggregates the aggregators is something that comes up all the time um for sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=930s"},{"start_seconds":939,"text":"real it's an issue but I think yeah you are seeing like a real Intent no pun intended of all the teams working on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=939s"},{"start_seconds":947,"text":"this to create standards for Gen obstruction which is good to see it reminds me of the old days of uh like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=947s"},{"start_seconds":954,"text":"RPC um standardization as well it feels like a really good moment too","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=954s"},{"start_seconds":962,"text":"for web 3 know right because this is like the the ethos of web 3 like working together building together for this kind of decentralization but I am curious though","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=962s"},{"start_seconds":970,"text":"if if we all work together for this standard of chain abstraction and and then we have all these single entry points to interact with all of web 3 if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=970s"},{"start_seconds":977,"text":"if you like what's it going to look like because right now we're kind of the competition I'm in marketing myself ear so the competition marketing is like you know getting your narrative or writing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=977s"},{"start_seconds":985,"text":"the right narrative and making enough noise to to rise above the all the noise of of web 3 when everyone's using chain abstraction what's sort of going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=985s"},{"start_seconds":994,"text":"the defining Factor do you see that people will to select which point of entry into web 3 they'll use yeah well I think a lot of it will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=994s"},{"start_seconds":1002,"text":"become just how good your applications are and how good your gross uh kind of gross and uh gross marketing is Right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1002s"},{"start_seconds":1011,"text":"which is somewhat similar to web 2 um except here you you as a user go around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1011s"},{"start_seconds":1019,"text":"with your assets and with your data right there's no like kind of lock in so yeah it will get uh pushed up in a way to be a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1019s"},{"start_seconds":1028,"text":"more application and kind of uh service competition in a way but at the same time like you know users will flock","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1028s"},{"start_seconds":1037,"text":"to what is better product which at the end you know users will win um and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1037s"},{"start_seconds":1044,"text":"think you know we have this application called dapdap right so it right now Aggregates 14 different layer tws it has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1044s"},{"start_seconds":1053,"text":"over 160 different smart contracts accessible and all of it is from one UI right so you go to dab dab you sign in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1053s"},{"start_seconds":1061,"text":"and you can transact across different layer twos with across lots of different smart contracts you don't need to switch BR browsers you don't need to switch","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1061s"},{"start_seconds":1069,"text":"tabs Etc now this is pre- chain signatures so with chain signatures you'll be able then to not switch networks and not figure out transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1069s"},{"start_seconds":1078,"text":"fees and bridges but that's kind of the experience right we can imagine now the cool thing is every single app there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1078s"},{"start_seconds":1085,"text":"onchain uh meaning the front end of those apps is onchain so you can run a another application like this right for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1085s"},{"start_seconds":1093,"text":"example you can have a desktop app or you can have you know a different customized version that for a specific Us Journey uh or for specific language","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1093s"},{"start_seconds":1101,"text":"or for specific you know audience um that provides a different experience right for uh different audiences so I I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1101s"},{"start_seconds":1110,"text":"would expect a lot more kind of experiences like this to appear and be the driver for you know as the chain got","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1110s"},{"start_seconds":1118,"text":"like Chains Got abstracted the applications are now in a way aggregated and into those platforms uh you will be doing a lot more like what's a overall","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1118s"},{"start_seconds":1127,"text":"consumer product and experience for navigating it it's very exciting to hear too","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1127s"},{"start_seconds":1135,"text":"because I think I'm massive on end user experiences driving kind of adoption I think it just makes sense that the people we're appealing to that the people that we need to come in in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1135s"},{"start_seconds":1143,"text":"drow and I do want to hear more about um some of those applications that we can expect on year but before we do before we move out of segment one Jasper could","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1143s"},{"start_seconds":1151,"text":"you speak to a little bit um on the Chain abstraction stack because I know that we've been talking a little bit about it at Seda and I think it's a good way for people to understand exactly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1151s"},{"start_seconds":1159,"text":"what is going on under the hood how do we make this a reality yeah I mean there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1159s"},{"start_seconds":1169,"text":"um so so essentially what you have is you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1169s"},{"start_seconds":1176,"text":"um the the idea is that you have sort of like entry points into like all of web 3","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1176s"},{"start_seconds":1182,"text":"or crypto um and that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1182s"},{"start_seconds":1191,"text":"um there's like a bunch of different layers like in the back end there on like what does what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1191s"},{"start_seconds":1199,"text":"um I think that um what what we're focused on as seta within the chain uh chain abstraction stack is sort of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1199s"},{"start_seconds":1207,"text":"the settlement so you have these multiple layers that's why it's called the cake framework um where uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1207s"},{"start_seconds":1214,"text":"settlement essentially makes sure that the party that does the action that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1214s"},{"start_seconds":1221,"text":"user intends to do uh for for the user is able to get their reward uh pained out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1221s"},{"start_seconds":1230,"text":"um yeah I I I don't have like the the details of like what exactly the stack other than that lays","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1230s"},{"start_seconds":1238,"text":"out we're we focused on what we're uh what we're supplying to the cake no no makes sense I mean um if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1238s"},{"start_seconds":1245,"text":"anyone's interested I think on our on our timeline we did post about the frontier research that sort of Dove right into the stack uh it's a very interesting read and I guess it's still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1245s"},{"start_seconds":1254,"text":"very early days like a lot of people joining and adding different layers to the stack when where they seem necessary being a new early Tech Ilia where does","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1254s"},{"start_seconds":1261,"text":"NIA sit in the stack there I guess is there a specific area of the stack that you're working on or you sort of covering all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1261s"},{"start_seconds":1271,"text":"slices uh yeah I mean kind of the core piece that we working on is with chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1271s"},{"start_seconds":1277,"text":"signatures is this permission layer um and then we also have some other pieces around cement layer and application","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1277s"},{"start_seconds":1285,"text":"layer and solver layer so we have a little bit of in every piece you know you want a slice of the whole cake uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1285s"},{"start_seconds":1292,"text":"but uh spec like the the main focus of um kind of with the chain obstruction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1292s"},{"start_seconds":1299,"text":"group is really uh to bring um the kind of this permission layer allow you know user accounts to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1299s"},{"start_seconds":1307,"text":"really be kind of multi-chain natively and being able to transact across all of this and then allow everybody else to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1307s"},{"start_seconds":1315,"text":"build in you know Rel layers solvers kind of intent execution and then settle on different layers as well but we do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1315s"},{"start_seconds":1322,"text":"have you know da for rollups to help with security and element we have obviously near layer one which is you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1322s"},{"start_seconds":1329,"text":"know performant scalable um fast finality to allow to settle kind of on as well uh and then we have uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1329s"},{"start_seconds":1338,"text":"decentralized front ends for building this applications gateways entry points um kind of in a truly decentralized way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1338s"},{"start_seconds":1346,"text":"as well so kind of different pieces um of Technology available and people can pick and choose uh kind of for their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1346s"},{"start_seconds":1354,"text":"use case what's the best kind of uh you know flavors of different layers they want with their slice of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1354s"},{"start_seconds":1361,"text":"cake the urge to make cake p is very strong I could feel it across the P today which I love before we move on to um speaking a little bit around the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1361s"},{"start_seconds":1369,"text":"fragmentation and and sort of the What's led into this chain abstraction I'm going to take a stab at walking through the audience through like a very high","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1369s"},{"start_seconds":1378,"text":"level example from a user point of view let me know how we go is this kind of what chain exraction looks like let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1378s"},{"start_seconds":1384,"text":"say Alice connects into a Dap on here and she has one eth that she wishes to stake Alice doesn't need to know which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1384s"},{"start_seconds":1393,"text":"pool which chain the staking pool is on at all she just simply needs to click stake and then enter in the value of 1 e and at that point that's the that's the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1393s"},{"start_seconds":1402,"text":"DAP layer she's now interacted with the D and then the second layer would be the permission layer which you're speaking to where you would check the wallet you'll make the signatures so we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1402s"},{"start_seconds":1410,"text":"talking about wallets and keys they'll make sure that the eth is in there they'll make sure that she has an address on the right chain that can sign uh on that behalf very high level here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1410s"},{"start_seconds":1418,"text":"and then that will be broadcasted to solvers who are sitting in the solver layer who basically then return a possible pathway possible transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1418s"},{"start_seconds":1427,"text":"fee possible transaction speed and likelihood of the transaction going through to which Alice will then confirm like we do with transactions at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1427s"},{"start_seconds":1434,"text":"moment uh we'll choose the maybe they she will choose choose the the the best solver transaction or the best one will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1434s"},{"start_seconds":1442,"text":"just come up based on predefined parameters we don't know but she selects that then the solver goes off and actually complete compete completes her","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1442s"},{"start_seconds":1451,"text":"action of staking that eth by doing it with their own liquidity so they go off to destination chain they state that eth on there and then in the settlement layer we're looking at things like Seda","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1451s"},{"start_seconds":1460,"text":"which are then looking at destination chain saying hey this action has happened we can send an execution proof across to the origin chain and then the origin chain can can have that settled","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1460s"},{"start_seconds":1468,"text":"saying that the action has happened the solver then collects their fee for doing that action but as far as Alice is aware she's only St one e and she's only had","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1468s"},{"start_seconds":1476,"text":"to click a couple of buttons is that about the the long and short of it yeah I think high level this is a good description I think to make it even more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1476s"},{"start_seconds":1484,"text":"fun you can imagine like Alice actually has you know a Bitcoin and she wants to stake e and so she definitely doesn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1484s"},{"start_seconds":1492,"text":"want to figure out how to swap that Bitcoin for E how to set up e wallet and how to deal with all that so like that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1492s"},{"start_seconds":1500,"text":"kind of you know identifying that intent saying like hey I just want to stake one e you know check out how much Bitcoin you need from Bitcoins to do that and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1500s"},{"start_seconds":1509,"text":"execute this and so yeah you'll have kind of uh solers or that are figuring out you know like how much they would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1509s"},{"start_seconds":1518,"text":"charge for that and then uh execute that from an account that Alice controls but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1518s"},{"start_seconds":1525,"text":"is kind of in in this relayer smart contract a lot allwing pretty much your layers to also top it up put money into it and execute actions on behalf of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1525s"},{"start_seconds":1533,"text":"Alice and that's kind of one of the Innovations we're bringing is this kind of indirection that uh solvers or gas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1533s"},{"start_seconds":1541,"text":"layers are able to do uh on behalf of the account on different chains uh without and then kind of without like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1541s"},{"start_seconds":1550,"text":"fully custody somebody else's account and at the same time something like seta can then bring information back saying like yes it went through one is a stake","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1550s"},{"start_seconds":1559,"text":"you know release the fee and uh kind of the Bitcoin to the to whoever executed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1559s"},{"start_seconds":1567,"text":"this I'm glad you were willing to go a little bit deeper and have more fun with that because I do not dare yet it's still such a complex complx stack that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1567s"},{"start_seconds":1575,"text":"we're they're working around we actually got a really cool thread coming out later today for anyone who is uh interested and also jump over to near documentation you guys have a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1575s"},{"start_seconds":1583,"text":"really really good blogs sort of explaining through chain abstraction and account abstraction I want to sort of take a step back we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1583s"},{"start_seconds":1591,"text":"kind understand what chain abstraction is doing at the moment but I want to say has near have you at near always been building towards chain abstraction or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1591s"},{"start_seconds":1598,"text":"account abstraction or is this something that's come out of um fragmentation due due to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1598s"},{"start_seconds":1605,"text":"modularity no we actually from the start kind of we're building with chain abstraction in mind um it just was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1605s"},{"start_seconds":1613,"text":"limited to near we wanted to abstract the near blockchain so that users and even to some extent developers can deal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1613s"},{"start_seconds":1622,"text":"minimally with the infrastructure kind of complexity right so the example being near blockchain itself is actually a shed blockchain we have a lot of you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1622s"},{"start_seconds":1631,"text":"know imagine like rollups running under the hood but like I don't want any developer user know about knowing about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1631s"},{"start_seconds":1638,"text":"this right and so if you go to our explorers and to our ballets Etc you will never see anything about shards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1638s"},{"start_seconds":1645,"text":"anything about kind of that thing although March we actually added two more shards expanding capacity of the network by 50% right and so like for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1645s"},{"start_seconds":1654,"text":"users it should be like hey you know like things are just more capacity you know transaction fee transactions going faster you can process more transactions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1654s"},{"start_seconds":1663,"text":"and for developers same they don't they shouldn't know about this similarly on account model we have meta transactions we have you know very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1663s"},{"start_seconds":1671,"text":"programmable account model that allows to have like different access keys and so kind of the account abstraction at at a very high level uh as well as you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1671s"},{"start_seconds":1680,"text":"actually turn your account into nft for example uh and you know sell it and somebody else buy it and and kind of uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1680s"},{"start_seconds":1688,"text":"claim uh and set up set up its own permissions for it so there's a lot of flexibility built into this again all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1688s"},{"start_seconds":1695,"text":"for how to enable developers when they build applications to hide the complexity of the blockchain so that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1695s"},{"start_seconds":1701,"text":"users ideally don't know uh when they start you that they're using blockchain and then over time just become kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1701s"},{"start_seconds":1709,"text":"more progressively uh richer users of this ecosystem now somewhere end of 22 is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1709s"},{"start_seconds":1716,"text":"where we kind of went from okay we're going to only build for near and this is going to be all near stack to like actually multichain is happening and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1716s"},{"start_seconds":1725,"text":"there is an opportunity to actually bring a lot of this philosophy and a lot of this uh kind of functionality that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1725s"},{"start_seconds":1732,"text":"have across the whole web 3 and so we started uh kind of chain signatures project as well the decentralized front","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1732s"},{"start_seconds":1739,"text":"ends uh around that time to really kind of bring this idea of tying all of this together and like what became now chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1739s"},{"start_seconds":1747,"text":"abstraction uh and uh and pretty much offering this now not just for you know near but also like working with other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1747s"},{"start_seconds":1756,"text":"chains working across you know the whole web three connecting this allowing tools to work uh M multi-chain fashion so that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1756s"},{"start_seconds":1766,"text":"kind of the transition so like always ch chain abstraction but it was kind of one chain now we are you know let's abstract","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1766s"},{"start_seconds":1773,"text":"all the multi-chain web three world it's an amazing uh journey to and it's glad to see that everyone else is getting on it as well cuz I for one you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1773s"},{"start_seconds":1782,"text":"know adoption is always something that we're talking about in marketing but it's just going to come I mean we've said it earlier in the space it's just going to come through easy user experiences Jasper and I were throwing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1782s"},{"start_seconds":1791,"text":"around some analogies this morning and one of the ones that we were talking about is this idea that you know you have your phone which gives you all your end user experiences you use your apps","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1791s"},{"start_seconds":1799,"text":"in there you're messaging whatever it is that you want to do entertainment or other and it's like the the Telecom carrier in the background that's making","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1799s"},{"start_seconds":1807,"text":"all that happen is irrelevant to the to the majority of users you know when we change countries we we don't really care","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1807s"},{"start_seconds":1814,"text":"who who the carrier is we just kind of want that experience so I'm very excited to hear that you know you guys have made such such leeway with it and a lot of people also joining into that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1814s"},{"start_seconds":1823,"text":"conversation as well but I do wanted to speak a little bit and maybe Jasper you can lean in we were talking about this the other day um any new technology any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1823s"},{"start_seconds":1831,"text":"kind of new narrative always comes with risks and challenges um one of the things Jas I'd love to hear more on with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1831s"},{"start_seconds":1839,"text":"you is like this kind of concept of a solvent Monopoly can you speak a little bit more about some of those Securities and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1839s"},{"start_seconds":1852,"text":"risks J do you want to go first yeah can you cannot hear me right okay we can can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1852s"},{"start_seconds":1858,"text":"yeah we can hear you okay okay cool um yeah so I think that the the risk for sort of that I talked about with solvers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1858s"},{"start_seconds":1867,"text":"is what you want to avoid is with the sort of like more intent Centric Solutions where you rely on solvers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1867s"},{"start_seconds":1874,"text":"there is this of like increased threat of censorship I'd","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1874s"},{"start_seconds":1881,"text":"say because essentially what happens is solvers or solving for intent networks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1881s"},{"start_seconds":1888,"text":"will be hyper hyper competitive which means that the margins will be very very thin and what you see in sort of like these hyper competitive markets often is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1888s"},{"start_seconds":1897,"text":"that people either specialize for a certain subset of intents that they will solve for or they will do like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1897s"},{"start_seconds":1905,"text":"Acquisitions and Partnerships with people that have large part of the sort of like intent solving stack uh in order to maybe be able to get like a little","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1905s"},{"start_seconds":1914,"text":"bit larger margins by being like a more more efficient like larger entity and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1914s"},{"start_seconds":1922,"text":"think what what has been sort of like the horror story that's been pitched from beginning with networks like this or like systems like this is that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1922s"},{"start_seconds":1931,"text":"know the only people that will be able to compete on the software stack will be the citadels of the world and uh they will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1931s"},{"start_seconds":1938,"text":"essentially uh filter out certain transactions or sensor transactions based on government regulations Etc and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1938s"},{"start_seconds":1945,"text":"I I think one of the arguments against it is like it's fine as long as you still allow then third party solvers to come in and still execute on those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1945s"},{"start_seconds":1954,"text":"intents for example uh maybe for a little bit higher fee right so you have like specialized intent solvers that uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1954s"},{"start_seconds":1961,"text":"just do the things that for example a government would not like it to do um or or like a citadel doesn't want to touch","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1961s"},{"start_seconds":1970,"text":"because I don't know religious reasons or whatever um yeah so so I think that is both the sort of like uh strawman for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1970s"},{"start_seconds":1980,"text":"for sort of like these TR instructions networks and the Steelman of like why the system still better than sort of like a trly system um what what other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1980s"},{"start_seconds":1989,"text":"sort of like risks do you see IIA yeah I mean I definitely second that um kind of if it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1989s"},{"start_seconds":1997,"text":"purely uh you know kind of higher stake system uh for for solvers this has kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=1997s"},{"start_seconds":2005,"text":"of tremendous issues so you do do want as permissionless as possible ability for anyone to come in I know man is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2005s"},{"start_seconds":2013,"text":"actually you know doing a lot of work on the peer-to-peer gos of network for intents to enable pretty much a way for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2013s"},{"start_seconds":2019,"text":"kind of propagate intents across the network uh even without you know like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2019s"},{"start_seconds":2027,"text":"you don't know who will be able to satisfy it right so you can kind of flood the network with it um and make sure that there is someone who can who can pick this up right so instead of a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2027s"},{"start_seconds":2036,"text":"more stake based systems like some other uh platforms um I think the other biggest question from my side has been","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2036s"},{"start_seconds":2043,"text":"privacy right I think we have a pretty much uh ridiculous state of privacy in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2043s"},{"start_seconds":2051,"text":"blockchain where everything is public and kind of traceable and I think with chain abstraction because like on one side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2051s"},{"start_seconds":2060,"text":"we're trying to achieve extremely easy convenience of usage uh users May don't even understand that they like Rev ring","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2060s"},{"start_seconds":2068,"text":"you know when they doing something we're revealing their Whole Net wors when they paying for coffee right which is also happens right now but kind of generally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2068s"},{"start_seconds":2077,"text":"you know right now it's fixed by the worst terrible ux which is you know set up a new wallet you know go through an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2077s"},{"start_seconds":2083,"text":"exchange to fund it uh and uh but going forward again we trying to fix that ux","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2083s"},{"start_seconds":2090,"text":"so that you can just pay for coffee with your uh with your wallet but the same time this means like at the current","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2090s"},{"start_seconds":2098,"text":"level of privacy will have a insane kind of leage of information and so one of the things that I proposed is creating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2098s"},{"start_seconds":2104,"text":"kind of a privacy shield around uh for chain signatures between who submits a transaction your kind of specific addresses on uh on different chains and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2104s"},{"start_seconds":2114,"text":"you can think of this as almost like a UT like you know like unspanned outputs but like it's like one time usage accounts that you can have that nobody","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2114s"},{"start_seconds":2123,"text":"can link back to you that you can they are still transparent and you know you can see that you paid for C but nobody knows that this is you and this was used","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2123s"},{"start_seconds":2131,"text":"only for that one transaction so you can have like ways to uh avoid this but we really need to focus and actually invest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2131s"},{"start_seconds":2138,"text":"in in developing that because otherwise yeah we'll we'll kind of actually be in a worser state of privacy and we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2138s"},{"start_seconds":2145,"text":"already in pretty bad State I think another","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2145s"},{"start_seconds":2151,"text":"um other part of privacy concerns is actually uh m","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2151s"},{"start_seconds":2158,"text":"because if you expose your intent you expose what you want to do you're essentially opening up the gates for like a bunch of bad actions like what's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2158s"},{"start_seconds":2167,"text":"the flood Center quote your intents will be used against you right like people will know what the maximum is you're willing to pay for something and it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2167s"},{"start_seconds":2174,"text":"always they could take the maximum or there is uh like don't know you'll definitely get f r uh on whatever sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2174s"},{"start_seconds":2182,"text":"of like Delta of me your your intent exposes so I think that's another uh interesting one um yeah ask you on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2182s"},{"start_seconds":2191,"text":"that when because the some of these intents are going to be like cross chain potentially more than two blockchains right like depending on how intricate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2191s"},{"start_seconds":2199,"text":"people are getting the when the intent goes into like the mle I guess this kind of idea that these intents are all sitting there and the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2199s"},{"start_seconds":2207,"text":"and the solvers are um you know the solers are looking at how they're going to solve these intents is is there an opportunity","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2207s"},{"start_seconds":2215,"text":"instead of just having me attacks on on one chain you could set Bots up that will then be able to take advantage of that whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2215s"},{"start_seconds":2223,"text":"flow well I think I think it's like a different like I would say in general for intense it's not M it's just the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2223s"},{"start_seconds":2230,"text":"solvers is capturing the whatever is on the table right and so I think the general idea here is you need to be able","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2230s"},{"start_seconds":2239,"text":"to specify more kind of sophisticated intent versus you saying like hey I'm willing to you know sell one Bitcoin for whatever e","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2239s"},{"start_seconds":2248,"text":"you like usually you would want to always have a limit order now the problem is limit orders have their own","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2248s"},{"start_seconds":2254,"text":"limitations right uh depending on what's going on in the market and so uh which like why you know most most the don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2254s"},{"start_seconds":2263,"text":"get fulfilled and so what you will need to do is specify some potentially a more sophisticated formula which says like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2263s"},{"start_seconds":2270,"text":"you know based on like last X trade or whatever like I will only accept price that's above like 05% of that right like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2270s"},{"start_seconds":2279,"text":"you'll need to actually have a lot more uh kind of detailed specification there now this is not user specifying right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2279s"},{"start_seconds":2287,"text":"this is the front end of the application that will actually like have that similarly how right now there's like a 0. five% slipage you know requirement","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2287s"},{"start_seconds":2295,"text":"that you know you can kind of customize but it's you know there like I think we'll need like a kind of a little bit more sophisticated approach there uh but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2295s"},{"start_seconds":2304,"text":"generally I think we'll see also a little bit different exchanges that will be um so like for near for example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2304s"},{"start_seconds":2313,"text":"change signatures you can imagine exchange where you deposit all assets into your kind of chain signature address like kind of remote addresses","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2313s"},{"start_seconds":2321,"text":"and now you can unne trade extremely fast with you know one second blocks and you know a fraction of a fee all of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2321s"},{"start_seconds":2329,"text":"these assets and so like your intent are here and then you can withdraw from there right so like you can have a little bit different structure which allows to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2329s"},{"start_seconds":2338,"text":"uh kind of solve intend more localized and prevent a lot of the front running uh n also has like you know when you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2338s"},{"start_seconds":2346,"text":"include transaction uh it executes in next block and it's like a specific order like ordering is defined in in a little bit different way so like there's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2346s"},{"start_seconds":2353,"text":"a lot of mechanisms there's also like shielded pools now shielded man pools and other stuff that's available uh but you need to design kind of with a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2353s"},{"start_seconds":2361,"text":"specific use case in mind because I think part of this is like generically MV is not solvable for a specific use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2361s"},{"start_seconds":2368,"text":"case you can find approaches to mitigate it to a big extent yep I think a lot of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2368s"},{"start_seconds":2375,"text":"responsibility of me mitigation will shift to Applications uh with these uh uh I think actually a lot of everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2375s"},{"start_seconds":2384,"text":"will shift applications a lot of value will shift applications I think as soon as chain abstraction becomes a thing I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2384s"},{"start_seconds":2390,"text":"think a lot of responsibilities and uh yeah it's really up to the applications","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2390s"},{"start_seconds":2397,"text":"then to to make sure that they're maximizing their sort of like use of of J instruction it's it's cool yeah and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2397s"},{"start_seconds":2405,"text":"this is why like the differentiation will be in in how this application is delivering experience pretty much like you know if your application is not handling MV well and there's like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2405s"},{"start_seconds":2414,"text":"solvers capturing all that value then well users will switch to something that's like handling that way better with with all the steps in chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2414s"},{"start_seconds":2423,"text":"abstraction and and kind of thinking about like redesigning to capture things like or to to mitigate as you put it earlier like me and these kind of ideas","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2423s"},{"start_seconds":2431,"text":"how much are we damaging the transaction speed for the user the things slowing down drastically is that something that needs to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2431s"},{"start_seconds":2439,"text":"considered yeah I think it depends on the specific use case as well um because if you imagine like spping Bitcoin for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2439s"},{"start_seconds":2447,"text":"ethereum like your current you transaction time is pretty much I don't know a 30 minutes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2447s"},{"start_seconds":2455,"text":"easy um unless you're in centralized exchange so uh and this is actually like one point I like to point out is that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2455s"},{"start_seconds":2463,"text":"the current state of multichain experience is a centralized exchange like it's not actually the bridges it's centralized exchange centralized exchange has way more users than any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2463s"},{"start_seconds":2471,"text":"like individual chain comined because it provides you a multi-chain experience uh and so with chain abstraction we're trying to bring that experience but you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2471s"},{"start_seconds":2479,"text":"know in decentralized kind of self Gusto way and so uh so I think like for many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2479s"},{"start_seconds":2485,"text":"use cases you actually getting like di time cut down massively because you don't need to like figure out Bridges figure out gas tokens like you know how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2485s"},{"start_seconds":2494,"text":"many times people have like sent usdc to another chain and then realize they need to like gas token as well and so need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2494s"},{"start_seconds":2502,"text":"go in like back and and you cannot swap USC on that chain because you don't have gas tokens like just that's a standard problem of of everything right um so on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2502s"},{"start_seconds":2511,"text":"the other side like I mean for some for some things um I mean there like a little bit of like I guess again this chain signature specifically there can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2511s"},{"start_seconds":2519,"text":"be a little bit of additional latency was intense there can be a little bit of additional latency but uh again it um it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2519s"},{"start_seconds":2527,"text":"pays off as like way improved convenience and potentially even better like filling rate because now uh you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2527s"},{"start_seconds":2534,"text":"kind of not again going to a single party but also like trying to find a best price trying to find best execution","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2534s"},{"start_seconds":2542,"text":"um and again there near like for some of the use cases for example ordinals right you can deposit ordinal into your uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2542s"},{"start_seconds":2551,"text":"remote account and now you will have an nft on near which you can trade with one second time right which you know again with ordinals it sometimes takes like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2551s"},{"start_seconds":2559,"text":"six hours to transfer it so so you I mean with ethereum it will take 12 seconds you know on a good day and $50","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2559s"},{"start_seconds":2567,"text":"so like you can have an interesting ways where uh without much uh kind of security reduction you are able to speed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2567s"},{"start_seconds":2575,"text":"up things uh but also you can like withdraw it very easily as well so so it really depends on use case and kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2575s"},{"start_seconds":2582,"text":"application yeah I guess the uh the current standard hasn't really been set too high you know trying to smash transaction seconds off the board um and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2582s"},{"start_seconds":2591,"text":"also man I wish you know if I had a doll off every time I had to message A friend of mine say hey can you send me some some gas tokens to to this address I just sent money across and I can't get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2591s"},{"start_seconds":2599,"text":"it out so I definitely uh resonate with that while we've been chatting it seems that we're kind of been alluding to like defi as the general use case here like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2599s"},{"start_seconds":2607,"text":"Financial actions as the general use case but I mean there's all kinds of other use cases happening in web through right now there's web through gaming social fly so many things popping up I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2607s"},{"start_seconds":2616,"text":"want to speak a little bit before we wrap up the end of the hour what's near like kind of what are the use cases that you're building for what can we expect","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2616s"},{"start_seconds":2623,"text":"on near is it primarily defi or does chain abstraction also help other Industries other categories sorry yeah it's pretty generic so I mean we see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2623s"},{"start_seconds":2631,"text":"people using it across obviously Define Finance I mean payments you know somebody was telling me that they have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2631s"},{"start_seconds":2638,"text":"an offramp you know into credit cards and Apple pay and you know right now they need to manually integrate every chain and you know figure out how to un","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2638s"},{"start_seconds":2646,"text":"Every Chain to do like smart contract smart contract account deposit Etc or they can use near right and do it kind of across all accounts across all chains","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2646s"},{"start_seconds":2654,"text":"across all tokens um then we have you know things like sweatcoin which is the new types of assets and now you can you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2654s"},{"start_seconds":2661,"text":"know go and interact with any application across all chains right you know you want to buy Unstoppable domain boom uh it doesn't matter that it's on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2661s"},{"start_seconds":2669,"text":"BNB you want to you know get a madlad nft boom doesn't matter that it's on salana right like as a user you don't really care about that so really opening","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2669s"},{"start_seconds":2678,"text":"up they're like you know over 10 million uh like they have 150 million stalls uh over I think 20 million users having","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2678s"},{"start_seconds":2686,"text":"accounts um to this like multi-chain world uh we see uh things like I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2686s"},{"start_seconds":2693,"text":"kind of gaming nft where people have ISU an asset on polygon for example but then building a game on another chain right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2693s"},{"start_seconds":2701,"text":"like okay well how do you link those things how do you make it really easy to interact so there's a lot of various use cases and I think like the multi-chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2701s"},{"start_seconds":2709,"text":"like fragmentation right that uh we talked a little bit before is just kind of naturally pushes people to like okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2709s"},{"start_seconds":2717,"text":"well we need to figure out how to solve it right you know if you talk with companies as well like nobody now wants to bat on the one specific chain because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2717s"},{"start_seconds":2725,"text":"like tomorrow you know Bas is popping you know Day After Tomorrow everybody's going to flock to uh whatever new hot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2725s"},{"start_seconds":2732,"text":"layer 2 and so like users want and developers want to have this flexibility uh and kind of linking things together right like hey you know what if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2732s"},{"start_seconds":2741,"text":"farcaster moves you know they after tomorrow to another to all three for example now everybody needs to like re-register accounts move all of their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2741s"},{"start_seconds":2748,"text":"money Etc like that's not uh you know feasible nice I have a a question uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2748s"},{"start_seconds":2757,"text":"that you let into beautifully there I think that a lot of the sort of like Network effect we've seen in crypto historically has been uh due to sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2757s"},{"start_seconds":2765,"text":"like this synchronous composability we're seeing in all these l1s uh due to fragmentation that's broken right like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2765s"},{"start_seconds":2773,"text":"we have all these chains all these other ones and the ux is worse than even like uh I don't know some asynchronous cross","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2773s"},{"start_seconds":2781,"text":"contract calls or or asynchronous transactions it's just you know you need to break Bridge through some third party","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2781s"},{"start_seconds":2788,"text":"and then I think so I think a lot of the sort of like concerns there are being negated by uh J abstraction and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2788s"},{"start_seconds":2796,"text":"could you argue that intents it like cross chain intents remove the need for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2796s"},{"start_seconds":2806,"text":"um synchronous composability yeah I mean this is the argument near had from day one right so near is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2806s"},{"start_seconds":2815,"text":"probably the only like asynchronous first uh blockchain where every single cross contract call is asynchronous and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2815s"},{"start_seconds":2823,"text":"that's because our kind of hypothesis from the start was if you want to scale you will need to deal with a synchrony","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2823s"},{"start_seconds":2830,"text":"and so may as well just like put it heads on and you know make it the best synchrony possible uh now it comes with obviously","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2830s"},{"start_seconds":2839,"text":"limitations right you cannot have you know like a crazy flash loan that goes through 50 different smart contracts uh but maybe that's a good thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2839s"},{"start_seconds":2847,"text":"uh so uh uh in turn though that's why kind of near is really good place for a lot of the things is because we've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2847s"},{"start_seconds":2855,"text":"designed asynchronous token standards we designed kind of a lot of as synchronicity uh you know thinking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2855s"},{"start_seconds":2863,"text":"across the board and there's other teams like a goric and uh that been thinking about this as well so um so I would say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2863s"},{"start_seconds":2871,"text":"that uh yes for the most part we will transition to a lot more more as synchronous compossibility","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2871s"},{"start_seconds":2878,"text":"um if you have enough secure security kind of unification aggregation happening you able to achieve really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2878s"},{"start_seconds":2885,"text":"interesting results and yes you're missing maybe some kind of Primitives like again flesh loans being an example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2885s"},{"start_seconds":2894,"text":"probably you're not going to be able to like flesh loan for Bitcoin you know swap it to ethereum and uh you know do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2894s"},{"start_seconds":2900,"text":"something and swap it back um but you're uh you can you know the user","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2900s"},{"start_seconds":2908,"text":"level things are are pretty easy to do and the Arbitrage and the the like the things that like happening right now because of the synchronous capability is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2908s"},{"start_seconds":2917,"text":"really the professional level uh kind of transactions that we'll see people doing on a low level kind of I would say like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2917s"},{"start_seconds":2926,"text":"important probably concept is we expect there will be sophisticated parties like Sol Who Running solvers Who Running market makers who running kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2926s"},{"start_seconds":2934,"text":"Arbitrage who are actually executing this and they have lower level understanding of each individual chain how to optimize for it how to submit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2934s"},{"start_seconds":2942,"text":"transaction effectively you know how to find peers in the network uh to effectively you know put transaction from next block producer uh you don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2942s"},{"start_seconds":2951,"text":"expect normal users to do all that right which is kind of the current expectation like you actually need like to connect to a right RPC that will relay your transaction in the right way otherwise","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2951s"},{"start_seconds":2959,"text":"you're getting sandwiched by whatever's the next uh you know M uh boost is happening and so here we expect yeah as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2959s"},{"start_seconds":2968,"text":"a user just prescribe your end result and there's sophisticated actors who are actually uh leveraging whatever the specific details of the blockchains are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2968s"},{"start_seconds":2977,"text":"um but yeah as a user you get kind of asynchronous compatibility across the whole web3 yeah and but it feels almost","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2977s"},{"start_seconds":2985,"text":"synchronous right because you say like hey I want to do these things on all these different chains and it will just get done or not at all right yeah yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2985s"},{"start_seconds":2995,"text":"you because you just describing the result yeah in many cases uh you can achieve kind of the atomicity right um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=2995s"},{"start_seconds":3004,"text":"that it gets executed or not although again it's application specific because I'm assuming you know some applications will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3004s"},{"start_seconds":3012,"text":"offer like partial executions because you actually won that yeah yeah and so yeah that makes sense all all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3012s"},{"start_seconds":3021,"text":"benefit of both essentially right like best Developers yeah developers can pretty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3021s"},{"start_seconds":3027,"text":"much leverage any of the any of these options was is this the just as as we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3027s"},{"start_seconds":3036,"text":"come to the last few minutes is this the end of crypto maximalism as we know it you know culture yeah I mean it's such","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3036s"},{"start_seconds":3044,"text":"an exciting part of everyone's day in crypto to get on crypto Twitter and get behind your favorite colors get on your favorite meme I think we still will have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3044s"},{"start_seconds":3053,"text":"that I think I think it's not going anywhere uh you know we'll have like I can imagine you know you can right now with chain signatures build I call it an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3053s"},{"start_seconds":3062,"text":"omni token like a token that's available in every chain at once and even if we like spin up a new roll up right now it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3062s"},{"start_seconds":3068,"text":"will be available there already and uh you can imagine that becoming you know Meme tokens that like are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3068s"},{"start_seconds":3075,"text":"everywhere and it doesn't matter which chain you're on um but then at the same time you can imagine like people are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3075s"},{"start_seconds":3082,"text":"kind of similarly how the people vote for their teams uh you know in sports like you know there's not a that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3082s"},{"start_seconds":3091,"text":"dramatic difference like there's no 10x difference in team in professional teams and sports uh but you know people vote for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3091s"},{"start_seconds":3099,"text":"whatever team they're they're closest is so I think that you know we'll we'll continue seeing some of that uh but I I do think like a fundamental maximalism","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3099s"},{"start_seconds":3108,"text":"will go away right like where you know people arguing that like my chain is better because I'll have you know all the users uh in in five years like that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3108s"},{"start_seconds":3117,"text":"that type of thing should go away I fully agree it will be like people will have maximalism for certain applications maybe I think some of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3117s"},{"start_seconds":3126,"text":"sort of like maximalism will seep through up uh will bubble up into the application layer now but uh nobody's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3126s"},{"start_seconds":3134,"text":"arguing about what their favorite intranet is or internet provider right you're saying you're not into 192 168 uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3134s"},{"start_seconds":3144,"text":"2.7 yeah or or or or even better like there probably will still be maximm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3144s"},{"start_seconds":3151,"text":"amongst devs just as there is maximalism among deaths around sort of like AWS versus Google Cloud versus sort of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3151s"},{"start_seconds":3160,"text":"the cloud providers right like there's some people that are very passionate about one over the other so I think some deps will have like very strong preferences but users in the end who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3160s"},{"start_seconds":3167,"text":"only care about the application and I think we're very very close to that reality and it's exciting I agree which is super good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3167s"},{"start_seconds":3176,"text":"because it's very easy to get uh much more growth when you have your users going into bat for your application by showing the actual Eng user experience","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3176s"},{"start_seconds":3185,"text":"to other users so that's a you know it's a win that they're having web too all we could go on all day about chain abstraction and I'm very very excited to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3185s"},{"start_seconds":3192,"text":"see uh where it goes what it looks like for near what it looks like for everyone in the cake framework if you've been listening along to these episodes I did","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3192s"},{"start_seconds":3199,"text":"just drop the pup link uh so go yourself a pup and you go to the raffle to win some SATA tokens this was the the last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3199s"},{"start_seconds":3207,"text":"episode of our series IIA it was absolutely fantastic um to have you any last words for for near yeah I mean I'm encouraging","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3207s"},{"start_seconds":3216,"text":"everyone to check out the docs uh for change signatures uh I think like if you are you know launching an application thinking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3216s"},{"start_seconds":3224,"text":"of application this is the tool for you and then you can also use any other blockchain and any other kind of blog","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3224s"},{"start_seconds":3232,"text":"space around the world uh to really uh leverage that and uh otherwise I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3232s"},{"start_seconds":3239,"text":"encourage everyone to try out applications like dabdab sweatcoin and others who actually bringing this uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3239s"},{"start_seconds":3246,"text":"chain abstraction to life uh for the end user and dabdab has points so you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3246s"},{"start_seconds":3253,"text":"know that's that'll do it that'll get the people over there you watch The Flop now fantastic Elia amazing uh Jasper any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3253s"},{"start_seconds":3261,"text":"last words something big happening at the end of this week perhaps with the s crew yeah we're announcing uh the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3261s"},{"start_seconds":3268,"text":"version of our chain uh like the launch date end of this week so keep your eyes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3268s"},{"start_seconds":3275,"text":"open for that should be should be announced sometime tomorrow could possibly potentially be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3275s"},{"start_seconds":3284,"text":"announced sometime tomorrow look forward to it Jasper thanks for your time as always thank you IIA for your time as well and thanks everyone for joining in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3284s"},{"start_seconds":3291,"text":"it's been a fantastic series look forward to speaking to you again in the future sometime IIA all right thanks for inviting guys all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3291s"},{"start_seconds":3299,"text":"right now thank you bye bye","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc&t=3299s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=FdC3kviI5oc","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/FdC3kviI5oc"}