{"id":"5SPUtzpbIIo","title":"NEARCON 2022 | Nightshade Stage - Day 1","description":"Check out all the talks of #NEARCON Nightshade Stage Day 1 with the timestamps below 🔽\n00:00 - Beginning\n00:51 - Crypto Imploded. What Did We Learn? | Magali McIntyre - Egon Zehnder\n16:01 - Updates From NEAR's Decentralized Stablecoin | Mark Sugden & Denny Balon - Decentral Bank \n32:31 - Asset-Backed vs. Algorithmic: Huobi and USN on the Future of Stablecoins | Lindsey Crawford - Proximity Labs, Denny Balon - Decentral Bank, Edward Chen - Huobi\n01:00:20 - Sharding Phase 1: Why You Should Be Excited | Maksym Zavershynskyi - Pagoda\n01:09:49 - NEAR Sharding and the Future: Community Panel | Claudio Cossio - Metapool, George Milescu & Maksym Zavershynskyi - Pagoda, Stanley He - CornerstoneDAO, Henry Tafolla - Cheddar, and Chetana Desai - Pagoda | MC: Marcus Ribeiro \n01:31:56 - Crossing the Chasm: How to Make Bridges Safe | Blas Rodriguez - Composable Finance, Kirill Abramov - Aurora Labs, Jessica Salomon - Archway, and Ayoung Jeon - NEAR Foundation | MC: Marcus Ribeiro\n02:03:48 - Building a DeFi Ecosystem on NEAR | Lindsey Crawford - Proximity Labs, Arjun Arora - Orderly Network, Didier Pironi - Ref Finance, Dheeraj Borra - Stader Labs, and Igor Stadnyk - INC4 and PembRock Finance | MC: Marcus Ribeiro\n02:29:30 - The Road to Mass Adoption: Bridging NFTs to Web2 Audiences | Erik Trautman - Satori | MC: Marcus Ribeiro\n02:51:11 - Onboarding the Next Generation of Web3 Gamers | Aliaksandr 'Sasha' Hudzilin - Human Guild, Hugo Furneaux - PlayEmber, and Ayoung Jeon - NEAR Foundation\n03:07:26 - Keep Your Friends NEAR: Building Bridges to Polkadot | Sheldon Dearr - Octopus Network, Ashley Tyson - Hypersphere Ventures, and Jason Ma - Axelar \n03:24:58 - State of Security: A Panel With the Auditors Who Keep NEAR Safe | Yevheniia Broshevan - Hacken, Michal Bajor - Halborn, Ioannis Sachinoglou - Chain Security, Robert Chen - OtterSec, David Schwed - Halborn, and Ayoung Jeon - NEAR Foundation\n03:49:06 - How to Delegate Treasury Management While Keeping Your Keys | Luca Mossini - Avantgarde Finance\n04:03:26 - How Web3 Is the New Instrument for Musicians | Tim Exile - Endlesss & Amber Stoneman - Minting Music / Nashville Unsigned\n04:28:38 - Surviving the Gauntlet: Finding Success as a Technical Founder | Drew Gorton - Pagoda\n\n\nJoin NEAR's community:\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nReddit:   / nearprotocol  \nDiscord: https://near.chat/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nGitHub: https://github.com/near https://github.com/nearprotocol\nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\nCreate a wallet: https://wallet.near.org/create\nApps on NEAR: https://awesomenear.com/\nLearn to Build On NEAR: https://www.near.university/\nGrants & Funding: https://near.org/grants/ (edited)","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2022-09-13T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/5SPUtzpbIIo/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"Welcome to The Nightshade stage thanks for sticking with us the program continues as you may have heard there is some rain going on outside so we had to delay the start of this track a little bit but here we are glad you're with us um this is where we're going to have more in-depth discussions uh tactical advice for operators Founders and investors and this is why we call it the Nightshade stage and without further Ado I'm going to kick this off by introducing our first Speaker magalie McIntyre from Egon Zender she's going to tell us what we learned when crypto imploded thank you hello good morning thanks for braving the elements to be here today can you hear me okay perfect great so my name is magaly McIntyre I'm French that's where the accent comes from that's I spelled the game um I'm a leadership advisor so what I do is I help build and develop teams for technology companies I've had previous lives I was in business school when the internet's bubble exploded um I was investment banking at Lehman Brothers in 2008. then I was a founder and now I'm advising crypto and blockchain businesses on their leadership challenges so clearly I like to be in the heart of the action um Egan Zender has been advising businesses for six 60 years and now myself have been working with crypto and blockchain businesses closely for the past six years so when Marik a few weeks ago came to see um come to see me and ask me what have you learned this year working closely with those crypto and blockchain businesses what are the Leadership Lessons I thought it was a really good question and to be honest um we tend to move on from one crisis to the next and think okay this is a crypto winter there's a reason why we call it winter because it's a season these two Shall Pass like the rain um Regulators are spooked that's that's what's happening when you have an innovation cycle there's nothing really new to it um I don't think that's totally true and I think it's definitely worse posing and take 10 minutes today to think what is it that we've learned over the past year and what would you like to do what should we probably start doing differently so if there's one thing I've learned working with businesses and a lot of my work I do is high growth businesses is that organizations are a function of their leaders and they reflect both their strengths their superpowers and their weaknesses and those two are very very tightly linked because when the strengths is overplayed when the superpowered is overplayed it becomes a blind spot and so I thought one is specific to the crypto blockchain Webster businesses what are what is unique about their leaders well a lot of it is that their leaders are mostly Founders so to understand those businesses and how to lead those businesses you need to understand the psychology of founders and so I went to see some of my clients and ask them as Founders what do you think your superpowers are in search of their blind spots and there were lots of different answers but a couple of themes came out very very clearly and one was creativity they see themselves as creative as the creative brain in the business and um it's fantastic but what we've observed working with them is that they are some flip side of this being The Mastermind of creativity that everyone needs to be aware of um the first one is that if there's always a new ideas coming up it's very very exciting but it's also really hard to execute and to operate when the ball is constantly moving where the priorities are changing and suddenly the new ideas take over their priority over the previous ideas of yesterday that is just in the middle of the execution I don't know if it sounds familiar um the second thing that happens when the founder identifies the creative minds is that no one else does and even if you hire very creative people in your organization they tend to shrink down because it's not their identity it's not their job and the cost for organizations are huge because organizations where not everyone thinks that creativity is their job just doesn't perform as well purely and safely the second one is the second I would say self-diagnosed superpower that came up was resilience and this ability to push through everything that happens take the punches and they feel they have to be there for everyone and lead from the front which is fantastic that's why people follow them that's why a lot of people join those businesses two problems again one risk is that they might feel like they need to have all the answers and like I can relate that as a former founder and I've been in boardrooms with those funders and I can see the they can turn into a punching ball um so I need I I get that they they feel like this um but suddenly there's no empathy and there's not a dynamic of support in the business which means that everyone feel isolated and feel that it's not their job to challenge the leader the almighty leader um and you're going to say I mean all this sounds great we do need leaders who are very creative and we do need leaders who are very very resilient the risk is this learned behavior to tune off any discordant voices I need to push through I need to be right I can't listen to people that are stopping me along the way to tell me I'm wrong and again I remember exactly what it feels like everyone loves to tell you why your idea is not going to work if you listen to them all the time you're never going to get anywhere but if you don't you might get caught into your own story and become the only person that's calling the shot so I think going through The Source process my conclusion was that creative Beauty and resilience is great but not without self-awareness that's the theory um what have we observed working with team in practice a few things over the past two years a lot of the businesses came to us because it's scaled and they needed to bring functional experts into some of the key roles and this is hard because it means letting go letting go of your DNA letting people in who are different and you feel that the culture is going to suffer and you're going to lose the magic and we had a wide range of discussion working with a lot of the players in the industry um you wouldn't believe how different the briefs can be that's a whole Spectrum of adjective that leaders use to describe the people they want in their business and it goes from thought Partners people are going to challenge me people are going to brush fresh thinking to believers and we've had a conversation with a huge business that was part of the inclusion who really believed that they should only appoint believers and if we have to take some lessons today we've seen a direct correlation between where those businesses are at and what's the level of diversity cognitive diversity that they're ready to welcome in their businesses and so if there was one lesson that we would take away is that you're a Believer bring believer in but bring people who believe in changing things people believe in challenging in challenging you and challenging themselves the we spoke to Executive in preparation of this chat with you who have been at the heart of the inclusion and I've seen it from true and say what are your lessons what are your learning and it was around the same line because they were saying I had this voice in me I didn't feel like I was a total believer and so I didn't feel like I belonged and I didn't speak up and this is where we are right now and this is why I left the organization so I think it's hard particularly this is not easy to come in and challenge I think it's important to understand that a lot of those people who come to founder-led businesses come from other type of organization and the way you influence in a fonderlet business high growth and changing the world is different from their previous life because in their previous life they could borrow credibility from experience whereas in the businesses that we're in now you think mostly by first principle so there is a de-learning and relearning about how you influence even as a senior exec before you can even start changing the businesses that you are in and it's important for the people who come in to understand and it's important for the people who integrate them to understand that they come from a different world one we call the complicated world and when we call the complex world different rules different game it's um it's all the more difficult in businesses like this one in our industry because it's decentralized and this is something that is new to a lot of people so they're not playing to their strengths but they do need to wait in really quickly to make a difference I think the lessons is it doesn't have to be that way very simply but um this is a new industry with a chance to do things differently a chance to build new models and as you're building new technology a new over operating model there is room for a new form of leadership this is not science fiction we're working with a lot of team that are starting by first principle about the type of leadership that they want to bring and understanding how they can bring the best talent from established organization Tech organization web 2 organization and bring all this to web 3 because that's the only way you're going to be able to scale and grow is to rely on the lessons of the past so not going to leave you with some tips but maybe some questions what if what if leaders in web 3 where is the one who redefine what good leaderships look like and you wouldn't believe it but in wipes too I had discussions with leaders in question session about what good leadership look like and they all came from American movies from the 80s so there's plenty of room to do things differently what if the teams challenge themselves to think about why do I exist why do we exist as a group why don't we even come together as a team one is our world towards each other and what is a role to support and Rubble harms against the founder and challenge with scare some challenges will be specific to your industry because it's decentralized and it's not easy um but some leadership teams are Universal and at Diggins under we came up with a Model A few years ago about what makes a great leader I mean I think in the end it's not rocket science it comes down to four things the first one we call insights and insight is the ability to take lots of complex information and make sense of it in the way that people understand the second one is engagement and engagement is how do you take people with you when it's difficult the third one is determination but not charging through it's really keeping eye of the target while listening to the dissonant voices along the way and I think it couldn't be more important given where we are in the journeying industry and the last one but the most important one is curiosity curiosity is the best indicator and we've looked at data over 60 years of how successful Founders have been is the first indicator of potential success of a leader not only in web 3 not only in Tech in any form of leadership and this true form of curiosity curiosity towards the world what's going on what's Happening what can I learn from what could my business do differently but even more importantly curiosity towards yourself as a leader the ability to challenge the ability to reconsider what's all the assumption that I'm making about myself and what the good leaders look like that are getting in my way at this stage of my business so I wanted to leave you with these thoughts I'm not here to teach you anything or give you lessons but if there's one thing that I took away speaking to oldest leaders over the last three months is that through winter spring summer what is gonna Define the successful businesses and projects and the others comes down to one thing um stay curious thank you very much big thanks to magaly there how to be a leader for All Seasons stay curious up next and by the way we're running about 50 minutes late on this stage 50 minutes behind because we started 50 minutes late so just FYI if you look at the schedule just plus 50 minutes to all those times I'm June I'm your host for today I'm with Amplified event strategy and you may have seen some of my work in coindesk quartz and elsewhere over the years up next we all know usn we're going to get some updates from nears decentralized stablecoin with Danny Balin and Mark sugden welcome to the stage you guys can hear me yeah you can hear myself one two three so we're all familiar with this Lego thanks for coming actually everyone first and foremost there's lots of exciting stuff going on out there so uh thanks for choosing to spend some time with us last time Denny and I were speaking to the crowd it was uh plus 42 yeah 42 degrees so it seems like we're a disaster couple yeah so today it's raining and uh pigeons bombing yeah a pigeon actually just pooed on me it's good luck where I'm from so yeah I don't know what other cultures were where I'm from if a pigeon does that to you you're in for a treat so Happy Days um hopefully this clicker works uh where am I pointing at no is this is this the right clicker no uh Let's Talk Amongst yourselves uh yeah any AV people can help me with a clicker yeah on it uh run quick run clicker user error perfect there we go there we go so who are we Denny why don't you tell everyone for the lovely people here that don't know who you are considering that I hardly hear you I'm just reading by your lips hopefully the crowd hears us better so on the left that's me in the pre-web 3 era when I didn't have the earrings and all that stuff and I didn't own a little bit of USM I've been doing projects and products working with teams creating value for like 1890 19 years and finally I'm here with all of you trying to get my way through crypto world and what about you mark so I've been in or around technology for my entire professional career working in it managed Services then moved on to fintech for a payments organization um that role moving into fintech was always because I wanted to work in the web 3 space and in that role I was lucky enough to have some crypto businesses that we facilitated their on and off ramp capabilities so moving from a payments fintech environment to the near foundation and then you know two-way a financial product was quite a Natural Evolution for me and uh yeah really really enjoying my time working as the previous said you know a new model when I've been you know growing up and working in a really corporate professional environment where if you have a meeting it's all in a room whereas now it's all over the planet so uh yeah enjoying the challenges now what about usn what what do we look like at the moment uh we're in transition phase as you know we have launched in uh April of 2022 uh with uh reserves mostly consisting of near and usdt and automatic rebalancing and the winter that has started this spring the winter started this spring showed us that despite the system behaved pretty well and we received a pretty nice results we wanted to do more and to do a much stronger mechanism and the core uh for the for the whole market and the whole industry so now we're in version two which in our opinion corresponds much better to the bearish conditions of the market is uh much safer and secure as a transactional phase and currently you can mean to ascend only with stable coins um at this time we have been developing the version 3 will be releasing this month and I'll be speaking about it a little bit later but most important were we were testing theories doing a lot of simulations to actually make sure that the third version that we release in the coming week 6 is something that we are proud of and the market will truly uh like and value so what have we've been doing up to now it's uh we've been lucky to work with a lot of ecosystem Partners this chap here is a nice Banker whale um custom-made nft by the team at near starter all of these are partners that we've been working with in the ecosystem so we've got tonic which is one of the New Order books launched live on uh the near native blockchain try Solaris the the premier amm on the Aurora Network we're integrating with them set up a nice good stable pool there bit sir um some of you guys probably haven't heard of them so they are a payment application they're regulated out of Canada and you can now use usn to pay out in 40 different countries as a settlement and 25 different currencies so you can use usn and they will settle locally all through the world in all those different currencies so bringing some real world user adoption there we've got ref Finance hopefully you all know refinance the first amm on the near native blockchain so working with them to really build up that stablecoin liquidity on the network and make sure that the infrastructure and the tools are there for Traders to operate in the ecosystem and as well as seat Labs nfts so seat labs nft are a ticketing company uh launched on the near blockchain and we're working with them where all secondary ticket sales will only be possible via usn so solving a couple of issues with you know that arrive within the ticketing industry if you want to on sell those tickets you can get the commission or the artist gets commissioned from that resale value you know moving the problem of scalping but that will only be done with usn so really building up the use case and hopefully the liquidity of it as well and working with other partners like banksa who will facilitate people to buy usn with their cards so I've got my regular bank card I can go on the seat Labs app I can buy usn with my card and operate with within that infrastructure very simply and of course huobi there huobi are our first centralized exchange partner really really helpful team we're so happy to be working with them um really awesome guys so what can you do with all this stuff right you know over the summer farming usn right that's why no one here has a tan um you know we've got good APR for essentially what is one of you know safest products on the market you've got a ref Finance pool where you've got usn and usdt and at the moment because usn can only be wrapped uh it can only be minted with usdt um it's a very safe farming product so the the apy is around 12 for a stable pool so really good opportunities for farming stables and in the crypto winter most of us have a lot of stables sitting there just waiting to capitalize when the market sentiment returns so providing some functionality there as well as Tri Solaris we've got a pool going there tonic we've got some incentives going there and we are working with a whole bunch of Partners within the ecosystem to make sure that users of usn are rewarded by their loyalty in testing it out um something that I mentioned already the version three that will appear on test Nets in the coming days and will be uh released on mainnet by end of the month this is something very special we have been working recently upon and you know as usual ideas are not new and ideas are cheap but it's all ends with actual implementation and how do you target uh problems and uh challenges when solving them so usn version 3 will include two cores the first core is stable swap let's call it a stable swap that allows you to mean to your sand with uh stable coins one to one obviously it will include corresponding security mechanisms that will allow to secure and defend the reserves from drying out in case uh something on the market happens and one of the stable coins depends and goes down now the second core is a CDP based the collateral depth position well known to everybody uh uh by maker uh by for example burro and that will allow to Mint or actually borrow borrow USM for volatile collateral such as BDC Earth near and a bunch of other currencies we believe that usn V3 having two cores actually targets pretty different uh crowds allowing to mean to assign extremely cost effectively when using the stable swap core for the retail users and using the CDP core for more defy users when they don't want to actually sell their Bitcoin for example yet they need funds to operate currently uh both cores will be working in parallel they will be connected and balancing corresponding balancing will happen uh so the circulating supply of the usen is always well balanced uh by the cores that were generating it I think the pigeon struck again huh there's those pigeons really don't yeah yeah cool so we've all seen the growth of stable coins I think uh stable coins have really set out a niche within it within the crypto space and really identified product Market fit we've seen well I've seen it because I kind of live and breathe stable coins but there are pictures of you know the number of stablecoin addresses continue going up to the right no matter what the prices of the digital assets are it's because they're highly functional Traders can sit in stable coins and still stay in the market they want to participate in the ecosystem we're building up a lot of real world use cases for payments and it's not just you and usn alone obviously there are some real bear muffs in the space like usdt usdc die the market is certainly ripe for disruption so you have to decide you know what do people want and why do they want it and there are certainly trade-offs between decentralization and mass adoption and those are the kind of things that we will try and address over time first and foremost the Central Bank you know the clue is in the name we are all about decentralization so we think there is certainly a use case there um that will continue the proliferation of decentralized stable coins for people to use them outside of I guess what we call um the the mainstream Financial system you know letting people that are outside those walls the accredited investors and those kind of things people that say you are and can do things based on the amount of money we have we don't believe in that at all we want to make sure that people are able to send funds to countries that might not necessarily be within the confines of of the status quo of the current system for various different reasons making sure we can Bank the unbank those kind of things those are the core thing core things you know the center of our ethos now this graph here is the internet right so I'm sure we've all seeing that Meme of Paul krugman's you know say the internet was a fad you know it's like a fax machine or something like that people just are afraid of change sometimes and stable coins are such a huge disruption to the status quo what goes on today working in payments myself you've all probably had experience in sending money halfway across the world having to wait three times going through a whole bunch of rigmarole to to get the information in and once you get that information in there's a corresponding bank somewhere on the chain that needs more information those kind of things there's got to be a better way right and and this is what blockchains enable and we can certainly verify all of the transactions all the steps along the way make sure that you know we've got full visibility of what is currently a very opaque system you know you don't know what corresponding Bank your payment is with at the moment how much they've got whites held up you know all the steps of a chain in a blockchain so that's why we are going to see as more people get into the crypto space get web 3 wallets we're still not there yet you know I I bought a beer with my near or USA then the other day you know it's still it's fun you know we're into web 3 we enjoy it but the user experience is still not there from a wallet um a wallet point of view but there are so many people here today A lot of you even that are all working on that ux right so if we keep on building the infrastructure in place that's where we're going to start seeing that hockey stick up to the right from an adoption point of view because we see the use cases there it's all about the UI the usability so that's why we're doing this there's plenty of plenty of room for stable coins to grow and we want to be there right right in the middle of that um we want to point out the key unique features of USM I think the most unique feature is the sustainable yield generation that by Design is the feature of usn and hardly any other stable can offer that how this actually work the near that will be placed into the reserve will be staked and the state Awards will be then converted to your send and distributed and this is the feature that greatly uh differentiates us from many other stable coins on the market the other feature is that in nearest Future I think it's a third quarter of this year the transactions in usn will be actually paid in USM so now you don't need to have near on your wallet to transact in your sand and we believe that's a major step forward because currently if you wanna send usdt you need to have F or TRX or whatever by end of the year we plan to go full cross chain literally make the experience of bringing collateral on ethereum and receiving usno near make it seamless make it literally one click allowing you to deposit funds on one layer one and receive usn on the other protocol and the number four is of course we're looking forward to moving to fully centralization which obviously includes the structure of the product from the legal point of view of course the governance and the technical side of things say if any of you have any questions we've got a booth down in the ecosystem uh section so come find us we'll have a chat um call to action you know if you can think of a way that usn would help your users anything you're building um interested in taking part in the ecosystem we welcome all conversations and of course the Dow will be open to anyone to come and contribute so pop by the Discord come and let us know if you have any ideas or want to contribute in any way thanks for listening thank you or stable coin uh Pioneers here um up next though uh Danny is not going anywhere he's going to stay on stage he was going to come back we're going to have a panel discussion about the future of stable coins moderated by Lindsay Crawford of proximity Labs so come on up welcome to the stage Edward from Hobby as well I will leave you in Lindsay's capable hands this is the leading one of the leading product managers of decentral Bank and comes from a background of working in I.T for over 19 years and he's very much a magician with various types of products that he's built previous to crypto and and we have advert Chen as well that is joining us from Kobe as the global head of listings and head of asset strategy and previous to hobby he was an executive director and CEO and the Singapore Hobie arm and spearheaded roby's Global APAC strategy operationally and today I think the first question I want to launch into is kind of understanding where you found crypto and what makes you specifically passionate about stable coins for for you George um yeah from my experience with crypto is uh quite a how do you say that quite interesting it's okay right quite interesting uh story because uh go back to the early 2018. I have no knowledge about crypto I don't even know what is bitcoin and you know I don't even know what is 4B and our founder Leon you have no idea so my investor introduced me to them and say how say Hobby in China the the biggest one biggest public exchange they want to go to the global market they were looking for some good Thailand to join them and guide them so that's why they invite me to help them so in the right way I just have you know casual talk but after my own company is being merged they say hey hey man is the right time and you know it's at the new area for the for the you know for the uh for the crypto that's why I joined them so that's the start of the whole story of my my crypto uh experience and then uh yeah as you just mentioned I I in the past I I I used to lead a lot of different business within the group so in the very beginning for the global expansion so we help on the Vietnam Market expansion so I still one of the biggest and the the best influencer crypto venue in Vietnam and then I moved to lead the institution business I have some college e-colic friends or uh you know sit down and we do a very uh a very quick expansion uh uh to gain the market share for two percent to 70 percent in one and a half year for the whole company and then the company adjusts me to to hit the the listing department and you know the asset Hub now but and we do a very uh very fast adjustment go back to the end of quarter four last year uh and uh in the first half year of 2022 we have around over 230 projects to listen with us and do the all kinds of collaborations with us and we used to have a lot of experience with other uh new uh you know Innovative stable coins and we always treat the USA is one of the best with them so that's why we continue to talk with Danny and you know Nia Foundation till today we have a chance to successfully uh launch them yeah excellent um and Denny for you um what kind of launched you into crypto given your diverse background what brought you to web three um I think luck any chance um kidding as you know um one of the booths there is near UA which is a pretty powerful Ukrainian Hub within the near ecosystem and obviously I have some friends there trying to grow with them the other day last year December 2021 I just gave a call and said hey I want to enter crypto and and they said just two words stable coin and literally in a few weeks after doing a lot of reading and research that was absolutely amazingly new uh feel to me zero knowledge um and I did hear a Bitcoin before that I did but by end of those a few weeks I was able to come up with a pretty valuable I'd call it a research that made guys believe in me and my opportunity to bring value to the decentral bank as an advisor so that path for me started literally like eight months ago and I'm extremely motivated and uh well this whole web 3 thing is extremely fascinating and I'm sure that uh on one hand as much as we are making the huge experiment we are part of the experiment nevertheless but we have that amazing opportunity to build the new world you know uh make tomorrow come and happen today um when internet started I was uh too young so now it's uh our time I think I'd have to agree with that um so Edward question for you as far as people I'm curious about what's the what is the actual use case for stable coins um and you know for it as well as against um if you could dive into that a bit for us uh you mean a usage case for a stablecoin yes uh centralized decentralized all kind all type of stable coins yes yeah I mean so for stable car usage in a very beginning uh we need to look at back to the history uh when you know go to the the last round of the bull market go back to 2017. um during that stage a lot of people they want to enter the market they want to in a very beginning only for the financial uh utility like trading like Landing borrowing right so they need some uh very good uh how do you say that kind of uh uh uh uh kind of stuff which can help them to transfer their feared asset into the crypto so that's why that's the beginning of the stable coin in the very beginning and during that stage is only centralized the type of the um uh stable coin like Italian USD like Circle USD so they are controlled by the centralized institutions they are handled by centralized collector license stations everything but after that when we go to the D5 summer a new a new uh a new space came out uh the community is uh is passionate about it and we see a very good uh utility utilization and advantage of to to use the the real blockchain technology to make it more you know how to say that uh transparent and more High efficient for the usage of the the capitals that's so that's why the decentralized stablecoin came out and so far uh from from a crypto exchange angle we see a two main scenario for the stable coin number one is definitely trading because there's still a lot of Institutions API Traders equatorial investors on the market they want to look for a very good Arbitrage space the stable coin is one of the good you know use case for them another one is uh it's just Danny and Mark mentioned so at the end of the day it's a currency right even stablecoin is a currency why you need a currency because you need a a staff which you can exchange the value between each other so so the stablecoin another big a scenario is definitely utilization but it already depends on which part of the utilization you want to use in the very beginning it's definitely start from the payment so that's the two main parts we see so far but Me Maybe in the coming future as uh Danny just mentioned there are a lot of new uh you know space camera a lot of new uh scenarios came out maybe people will use a stable coin for other stuff as well so it's obviously about a challenging year for stable coins in general um what do you think and and clearly knowing that there's a there's an importance for stable coins um in web3 um what are you thinking are the ways to transition web 2 to web 3 adoption within staplecoin uh you may use the stablecoin to uh adopt more users from web 2 to Webster correct yeah I mean yeah um so for web3 users I mean for web2 users the main challenge for them is number one the understanding of the concept how you're going to understand what is web3 how you understand what is you know decentralization and uh what's the advantage of it and why you want to use it or why you have to use it there's a lot of users when they stay in the web tube they they get used to web2 they think web2 is best they think web2 you centralize everything is good you can use right here you use you know food delivery you can use all this stuff you think everything is good but a very few people they start to realize that oh there's still a lot of way to optimize uh so the number one is definitely how to let them know and recognize the concept and number two when they really have the awareness how they're gonna move themselves into the utilization of the you know the web's reward so stablecoin is very important because not every single applications we see on the market now they have the good Affair solution which means if you have the US dollar you have euro dollar you have Singapore dollar as I did I step in Singapore I want to use the Singapore dollar to get it uh to to get used to to enjoying the decentralized application is really hard so how are you going to use it you need a stable coin to solve it so that's the reason why yeah Danny um as far as your perspective on what's the use case for stable coins and in general um within web3 the importance of it what are your thoughts um I would uh I would agree with the Edward and you know really not much to add I personally see two main use cases the number one is that um stablecoin is a great tool for exchanging of value literally paying for something and the second one is of course everything related to trading and financial activity when one wants to park their I don't know Bitcoin into something more stable for a period of time or exit into a stable coin because of some reasons so obviously payments are hardly possible without stable coins because in the morning Bitcoin has one price in the evening it has the other price and equally the defy world and the trading world needs uh some method of I would say not transacting value but a storing value actually which uh also the stable coin plays this role greatly San um it's obviously becoming a fairly crowded space with stable coins and what differentiates usn um to the others um great question thank you first of all uh uh the number one differentiator I believe is that uh usn is able to provide I'd call it native and sustainable yields when near from the reserve is actually staked into a near validator and there is uh received awards are then converted into usn this is the feature literally that is utilizing the nature of uh near protocol which is a dpos protocol and hardly any other stable coin can offer that especially centralized cannot those that are launched on blockchains that don't actually support these kind of functionality cannot offer these type of yields uh that's number one number two is uh the huge difference will uh be related to transactions in USM to be paid in USM which means you don't need uh additionally near or ethereum or TRX depending on the protocol you're making the transaction on in order to transact in usn and I think that's an amazing great uh step forward towards something that web3 industry really needs today and that is being user friendly because right now uh we as participants of the industry we have a pretty good idea how things work and they do work and a lot of things is possible today already but at the end of the day it is pretty complicated and it reminds me much more about how you would interact with actual internet back in the days and we need to make those steps to make it user friendly so obviously you want to transact in your send you don't need to have anything else you can transact in usn and the commission will automatically be deducted converted and the gas fees will be paid and the third feature that doesn't make USM unique per se but I think where placing extra stress on that that is you ascend version 3 that to be launched by end of this month will have two cores as I mentioned the stable swap core extremely extremely Financial efficient one-to-one minting from other stable points that is more for retail users the that is more for those who maybe want to rebalance their risk when compared to owning just usdt or just use DC but on the other hand we'll have the second core the CDP based core working parallel which is which has a much more defyish kind of specialty I don't know that will allow people to keep their Bitcoin yet get some amount of usn and use it on the market and then be able to safely return it and get their Bitcoin back uh the other very important thing about launching the CDP core is that in addition to launching they actually the second core that's able to Mint USM from over collateralized positions the important thing is that we're adding the functionality of a money market where for example you can bring your BTC receive usn and I can loan your BTC which makes your collateral actually work and earn additional yield for you and that mix of on one hand giving you a very clear feature of hey you want usn here you go on the other hand we're giving you the opportunity that your collateral or at least part of it will always stay at work and bring additional yield and we believe that this mix of one hand kind of straightforward stable coin functionality means redeem mint redeem uh with the functionality of allowing the collateral to earn and under let's say bullish market conditions it will be greatly utilized we believe that that's a great mix these three points and Edward I know we discussed a little bit earlier at your take on what makes a stable coin competitive and an already very competitive ecosystem would you mind diving into that a little bit okay the competitiveness of the Stable Market yeah yeah that's a good question to be friendly we see a lot of uh stablecoin operator on the market or a lot of team they have the passion to run a good stablecoin project but it's uh to be friendly uh the the successful case is very rather fewer than in the failure case because uh um you know number one you you really need to have a very good command of you know economics you know the currency you know how to run a very good economic system well that's number one number two uh uh uh not only for the you know the understanding and the and the setup the whole mechanism but you also need how to operate well that's the main part as just then you mentioned right so you need to have a very good uh usage case you have to have very good utilization case I think that angle is very good I mean you tell you you divide your uh how do you say your your Solutions or your usage case based on different your target audience to demand the real demanding that's that's the most important part about the majority of the stable coin operators or Team on the market they don't do that they just focus on their own concept build up they think oh this is a good idea I I think the algorithm I set up is fantastic but they didn't do they didn't you know look from the the user angle I think that's that's very important part you have to look through the user angle uh why they need your stable coin what kind of what kind of scenario they need your stable coin by this you build a very strong demanding pool and uh and a convert this demand input into your liquidity and uh and converting liquidity into your you know bigger size of the you know the the volume pool and then you have a very strong market share on the market so that that would be a very important competitiveness strategy yeah so we were always trying to support this type of the strategy energy because from a centralized institution we used to have our own space stable coin which you just mentioned right but now we don't have so we're willing to to back all the stable stable coin operators who have very good uh you know operation and strategies so I think USA is one of the best for them so we're very happy to support them and open our community to them but we need to really build up everything based on our communities demanding that would be the key yeah so you said good operations and strategy what does that look like to you uh you mean the stable coin strategy first we don't have we don't have straight stablecoin strategy so far yeah we just support other third parties uh stable coin yeah and as far as with usn Denny um what what is kind of strategy and operations to you for for getting seeking Excellence for usn what does that look like um I think I think everything and including the strategy is something that's constantly in the works and constantly evolving uh there's no way we'll uh reach Perfection because web3 world and the whole industry is uh changing uh and um uh yeah changing uh faster than uh anything else um I think the key points of our current strategy is that um first of all we're doing everything possible to make you send stable and reliable because without building trust and without uh clearly stating why your son is stable why uh the audience the user should not even you know somebody might use the word believe but I don't like that word because uh usually people are asked to believe in something that kind of has doubt to it but in our case we want to make it very clear that this is USM that's how it's built there is no doubt that it is stable because it's stable by its design that is why we transition from version one though it was uh pretty stable very strong nevertheless not as good as we want it to be for today for the future of the industry so building trust as a result of clearly uh displaying and explaining why you're sending stable is number one number two exactly uh as Edward said we're really targeted on understanding what are the main uh use cases and clearly looking at some other stable coins which are pretty big on the market today uh looking back at the days when they launched how they evolved how they grew well it was pretty clear why they did this and they didn't do that but usn was launched in Spring of 2022 right there are a lot of competitors on the market there are a lot of things that somebody did somebody will do and we have to pave our own way and that forces us not just to do what we think is right but rather to understand what the market needs that's why there are two cores targeting the more retail kind of users and more defy kind of users yeah I have something add-on here so because for the stable coin uh how do you say battle or competitiveness is very similar as you know the centralized crypto exchange battle and the competitive this as we're facing now but that is one ultimate uh uh how do you say a strategy is always the right strategy trying to find at the incremental part of the user case because when you're doing existing Market Battle you will always higher cost to convert existing users but as Danny mentioned if a usn find a very good you know so uh incremental scenario which all these users are new for the stable coin then it's quite easy for usn to get a market share and to become more influenceable on the market yeah and then at Hobby how do you Garner trust with users for onboarding for stable coins or otherwise sorry okay Rebecca how do you Garner trust with users for onboarding and creating that sense of transparency for transfer uh for for the you for the stable coin for the for the users for the users uh for us how how you define the transparency yes our transparency mean for stablecoin or for the our crypto either or either word uh um I mean for stablecoin transparency very straightforward like you can search everything online on channel right everything is transparent but for centralized crypto exchange SS we're trying to show everything as much as we can but there's still some centralized product which we cannot show to the users like you know risk control system and the security control system right all this files cannot show but for the you know stable coin you can always do that yeah but how how centralized institution to to prove to the users that you are transparent enough or you are trustworthy enough is by you know the regulation or the license because you have a third party to endorse you they say hey 4B is good right as so that's why we are continuing a lot of license globally yeah yeah um well I think we are running up on time here but if there's any last comments or or statements you want to make specifically about stable coins please do yeah you go me uh uh for myself I mean we're willing to look uh to to find a more you know new Innovative and a better stablecoin solution on the market and we're always trying to back them to support them uh even we created the China Market we still uh very active on the global market I will try all kinds of and we have very strong uh presence in Asia we still want the top five in uh top top three in Asia top fighting globally so we're still trying best to to back all the strong uh stablecoin operators so that's our attitude but in terms of in terms of the technology side uh to differently we are not expert expertise so we cannot tell much but there's one thing we think is very important is at the end it's the collateral you have to have enough collection to support your project otherwise a little bit challenged another part is you have to think carefully about your growth strategy only by this we know how we're gonna leverage our resource to support the project we we like your ass like for them for usn yeah as for me I believe I truly believe that the future of web3 is uh tightly connected with the whole industry of stable coins building uh building out and uh for now despite stable coins have been on the market for a few years by now I think that is uh very much still the very first stages of this uh gigantic I'm I'm absolutely sure gigantic industry and uh I think these are great times somebody might say that hey if you launched uh usn like a few months before the events of May um well yeah from one point of view that could have kind of be better but I'm afraid that it could have been better only in extremely short time period in a short run but in a long run I'm a great believer that you know kind of bad times create strong people strong projects and exactly the events of May the reasons why we switched to version 2 and now switching to version 3 is actually that complicated path we're going that allows us to finally you know create that multi-faceted complicated solution that is actually has higher chances to stay on the market for many years yet be ahead technically and governance wise and maybe even legally compared to some other popular stable coins that have been on the market for ages so I also believe that as we're building out usn um I think we're serving an extremely important kind of mission for the whole industry and that is we are showing that uh the whole industry needs to uh become a little bit more honest with themselves and stop well obviously it's impossible 100 but majority of people need to start kind of believing projects that provide realistic yields where transparency is key where these uh these literally features of the project and the team and the people behind it are the proof that the project is here to stay for many years again not pointing fingers at anyone we've seen beautiful examples of how people tried but the market said like hey it doesn't matter what you try the rules are this and if we don't want people to keep on losing money and at the same time the web 2 world looking at web 3 pointing fingers at us and saying that they're scammers obviously we're not this is extremely important to make this balance of transparency honesty realistic expectations and I think this important mission is upon all of our cells yeah I'm Denny and George and it was a pleasure and I think up next thank you okay thanks everyone thank you thank you thank you thanks Lindsay thank you to that to all our panelists Lindsay Danny and Edward now you guys are going to want to stick around for the next two sessions because they're going to be big it's a sharding double header and we're gonna kick it off with sharding phase one why you should be excited a talk by Max from pagoda coming up Max everyone hello I'm Max uh today we're going to talk about a very exciting thing that is happening right this moment on near mainnet which is the transition to the sharding phase one and you want to stick around because this more certainly relates like it's very relevant to you too whether you're a validator developer user token holder it is all very relevant so I'm Max uh I don't know how many of you know me I'm actually here on behalf of Bowen who couldn't come today I'm a leader of Engineering in pagoda and actually the first employee at near in general before that I was at Google and also did PhD in computer science so what is what is phase one up until now if you are validator or near mainnet you have to run a node which validates all of the shards and does the block production and this is quite a lot of the CPU computation and you need a lot of state and you need all that to be collocated on the same machine so this is not the way to do sharding so what we're doing now we're transitioning to the phase where you can start up a node that will be only doing the validation of A Single Shard and it will do four times less CPU computation and will require four times less States and this is pretty big and important because there are major implications to this transition well first of all is that we can have simply more validators so today we have 100 validators on mainnet now you're going to have 300 and one thing that I wanted to understand is that near validators are actual realable dealers like every blockchain has their own definition of the validators but on near if you're a validator you're not just earning stake in Rewards you are actually securing every single header every second that Minit produces so if we have 300 validators there are 300 signatures every second securing every single header whether it's a block header or chunk header and it's a pretty big deal because going from 100 to 300 validators increases the security and decentralization of the entire maniac threefold then uh obviously phase one is the only one Milestone of our big shouting roadmap it's a important stepping stone phase two that I'm gonna explain later and finally one thing that not many actually talk about is it's this unique power of the near blockchain which is we can actually reduce the hardware requirements uh for some of the nodes that do not do the validation of all of the shards so if you do four times less CPU computation and you need four times less disk space you can run four times cheaper instance we haven't done it this yet but it's coming up pretty shortly so near blockchain is really the only blockchain out there that not only increases its capacity not only scales but it drastically reduces Hardware requirements and I don't mean like Minor optimizations by like 10 or so which something that many blockchains do but 4X Hardware requirements drop and this is all coming so this phase one was a truly Community effort and I'm incredibly proud of that the code was written by Pagoda this time but I hope that in the future the code for the protocol will be written by the community too this time the community helped us test this code and iterate on it and we had 1500 people joining in and working with us for many months on actual testing this phase one and the other even cooler thing is that the whole thing was organized by the community too and The prominent parties from the that organized the stake Wars will be here today after my talk during the panel so stick around and hear from them so what is this phase two that will be coming probably next year so phase two will drop the requirement to have nodes that validate all of the shards because even with phase one you still need block producers to validate all the shares but with phase two this will be completely eliminated and this also is a pretty major Milestone because today we cannot just simply increase number of shards from eight from four to eight because for some of the nodes that will mean that they would need to run twice more expensive Hardware but once the transition to phase two this will no longer happen and we can just increase the number of shards with any repercussions to the hardware costs it's pretty neat so I also want to talk about the usage of the of the near blockchain this is also another thing that not many people are talking about we've been very focused on the transactions and TPS in the blockchain space but this is not the only way you measure the usage of the blockchain also because every blockchain defines transactions differently or near blockchain a transaction is actually a user interaction and sometimes even multiple user interactions bash in a single transaction so on your blockchain transaction is not a network message it's not an RPC request it's an actual user interaction and uh there are pretty cool metrics outside the transactions too the most impressive one to me is how many messages minute nodes exchange every second just to establish consensus and it is 50 500 000 messages every second exchange just before leader notes on the mainnet and I want to assure you that our network is really optimized and we try to exchange as little as possible messages between the nodes the other important numbers are how many read requests we're getting for people who run the apps on on the mainnet so Pagoda maintains this public RPC and point that everyone is using and we have 11 000 RPC reads every second from the apps and this is also because the apps are so easy to build and near and have the interfacer responses that people really leverage the RPC when they build the apps on here we this whole thing was only possible because we invested significant amount of effort in reliability and performance of their main net and if you've been around you know that since we launched mainnet two years ago we had zero downtime and it was only because we invested an incredible amount of the resources and that we also have low latency for the RPC but even most importantly we have the protocol upgrades happening all the time we had almost 30 protocol upgrades happen since the beginning and this is the actual power of near blockchain because we can introduce almost any protocol feature in this way we truly have not encountered any feature on other blockchains that we haven't thought could be introduced the near protocol so if you're very excited about some protocol features on other blockchains maybe you've seen some virtual machine that you like or contract language or maybe you want to have some kind of integration for instance recently people have been discussing integration with Cosmos please come to us and propose either through any enhancement proposal or the what so-called work groups introduced in these features for the near protocol really want this to be Community effort it shouldn't be just Pagoda building all of the code like we do today it should be done by the entire community so if you have ideas then you know what you want to implement submit proposal come to the word groups if you're just excited and you want to help in some way come to our community groups and brainstorm with everyone and uh even create your own community group if you want there is going to be a talk tomorrow by Ori which is called high standards this is where he's going to tell you how we're going to be decentralizing development of near protocol in general but you can also visit this URL and also stop by our booth to learn how you can help us so that is it from me please subscribe to our tweet and check out this QR code thanks so much for that Max you can go off stage we are going to reset the stage for a large community panel to talk over all of those things that Max just mentioned stake Wars and more with all of pagoda's Community Partners so if you've just joined us I'm June I'm your host for the stage today this stage is running 50 minutes behind so plus 50 minutes on the agenda if you look at the agenda we're 50 minutes behind because we had to start a little late now I believe we are almost set uh I'm gonna invite chatna Desai from Pagoda on stage and she's gonna bring up the rest of her panel big hand for chetna hello now hey everyone thanks for being here I know uh not really weather-wise complying but we are so grateful that you're all here with the panel I'm really excited to bring our Community Partners as well as some of the Pagoda speakers on stage first up we have Henry from open charts and we have uh AVB Alejandro from medapur we have Stanley from metaweb and our very own George from Pagoda not but not least Max from Pagoda all right oh can you guys hear me with my mic now awesome all right excellent um so we are all thrilled to be here um I think um I want to just call out a quick cue which is uh Viet near believe in building creating without any limits uh what I mean by that is no limits in terms of building anything on here for example you can use any language not just rest we have Js SDK as well to support hundreds of millions of developers who can actually onboard easily the second is what the team is sharding right the dynamic sharding which is our future where there's no limits for hyper scaling right so you can scale up and down as Max mentioned with that cue I want to go into panel and kind of focus on the partners here asking them in in your perspective because your close partners with us give us a little bit about why near for you in terms of sharding specifically yeah go ahead okay yeah I'll go right ahead so you know when I looked at uh different Brock chains I looked at uh near and its sharding capabilities and what they had forecasted looked like it was really uh not only good from a technology stack but also from a developer so what's great about near is you don't have to focus on the technology you build your D app you build your code base and the tech just works so I think that's the best benefit there yeah hey baby yeah I tend to come at it from like the product used to experience side of things and when you look at different blockchains and their approach to scalability it may scale with like strings attached so when you look at near and the fact that you can have cross-contract calls the developers the programs the users don't have to know or care which charge they leave on the network can expand and contract based on demand there are very simple messages that really resonate with people that want to build real products that are going to be here in five ten years and that they must have the assurance that the network can keep up with their growth so yeah Stanley go ahead yeah I mean agree with the AVP if we've been you're looking at different blockchains and obviously I think near has struck the perfect balance between scalability and performance and security and decentralization so like for a liquid sticking protocol you know you want to actually help decentralizing the blockchain and saying you know sharding you know Chunk on in production and in the future Dynamic starting like that's like built-in decentralization you know on the protocol level and that that works very well with the liquid sticking protocol so yeah that's why we you know we chose near and that's why we decided to you know participate in state war and help promoting you know sharding uh to a bigger community yeah thank you all Max going to you about uh specifically about the shirting piece um that you mentioned um like what is it unique to near from other layer one blockchain that we have in terms of sharding right so everybody's claims that the charting but what in particular the near um that they should look for especially the builders developers and entrepreneurs with many other blockchains that have some formal shot in whether they call it sharding or not you do really have trade-offs usually with developer experience usually developer experience is an afterthought mostly because all of the all of the hype and two years ago was about consensus algorithms so some kick-ass gimmicks but near was focused on developer experience from the very early days so we figure out how to do sharding without degrading developer experience and our ideal is to for you as a developer to not even think that we have Sharden we want you to just deploy a smart contract and don't bother like with what has happening behind the scenes which is entirely the opposite to many other blockchains that you want you to learn and appreciate the complexity of whatever attack that they have built and learn you know about their consensus algorithm and you know and and build around that and this is entirely the opposite to to near approach thank you George do you have anything to add on top of that uh so from a different angle that Simplicity which we want to give uh to the application developers and that scalability actually behind the scenes translates in a lot of effort adapter uh doing ourselves to make the protocol easy to adopt and that effort is a community effort it comes from Pagoda and from all the partners who are actually with us in in the effort of creating a stable and a scalable blockchain so all those 28 releases that that Max mentioned and all the journey towards sharping is a group Journey that that we're happy to to share with our partners um and that we want to take step by step while keeping the the domain at stable and also allowing it to adapt to whatever applications you want to put on top of it yeah totally makes sense uh so taking that further down is so we know that what's a unique value prop uh from the near sharding perspective like let's delve into looking back a little bit like since the main net release um and the phase one we are getting towards the sharding Phase One release which is supposed to be September 21st um what has it been the journey uh from the partners perspective let's start from the partners perspective like how is that being for you to build alongside Pagoda right and and coming from the community point of view and I think Max mentioned a lot of numbers statistics and such but I want to get your kind of point of view here as well yeah I'll go um yeah so I think that one of the key things is that as we've deployed sharding over time there's not really been a significant change to either the D apps or the uh validators themselves other than the protocol upgrade I mean you you didn't really see any change so as we get more decentralized as we scale more as we put on new protocol features it's been very seamless so I think from a validator perspective it's been very pretty easy for the most part and we've not really had any major hiccups in the chain at all with with all the progress we've made so that's always good to hear that's right all right yeah from my perspective I really like the finding the right balance between having a strong core technical team delivering these improvements and the community involvement so we've been around since the very beginning open shorts Alliance Medical enabling empowering training the new sets of validators you know since stake Wars 2 and the last batch of 40 validators to stake Force three and the next batch of 100 200 validators it's really interesting to see how you know the baby gets thrown out of the or whatever the saying is to run out of the ship and it starts swimming and it's been an interesting Journey but it's good to see that it's possible like the developer experience is there and yeah Community that's that's always pleasure to hear um Stanley do you want to add yeah I mean we've been you know working with different communities uh from day one and the violators and also retail users um and also obviously near protocol and attack team and it's amazing that you know uh with you know we we've done phase zero last year and then now it's phase one and we've been really doing um you know fundamental changes you know on the particle level but it's so super smooth nobody's affected either validators or users I mean that's amazing for us um and also um yeah it's great to see that we are you know helping uh you know onboarding more violators and those onboarding more stakers and it's great to see you know both sides are like growing and like right now you know it's a thick War so we've onboarded in a couple hundred new tank only validators and also on the other side um users are you know taking their more to the protocol and I think that's a super you know that's a very very promising and very healthy growth for us to see uh yeah and I mean we definitely see that you know going into the future so that's that's excellent and George um do you want to kind of bring a full full run perspective like that is from the community in the validator perspective but if if in the audience we have a lot of Builders and developers how that is significant um in terms of sharding and for them to build on near blockchain so what it basically boils down to is to making sure that the network has the capacity required for the applications that run on top of it and this this then gets rotate into multiple things like lower costs or or being able to have a larger number of transactions on the network but at the end of the day as a developer your main focus should be on your application and your business Logic on on your product and you should take the the blockchain as a foundational piece of technology that works and it's there for you whenever you need it and that it's also is with you as part of your journey when you're going to have success and you're going to have users and your application is going to grow the building blocks that you're using have to grow together with you and the scalability that near offers and all the sharding that the work that we're doing and we're planning to do will help a lot in that in that direction yeah and I think we had a lot of learning throughout the state course episode three right so we talk about uh we have the cause that we talk about bring all the feedback from the community uh through the partners and we also do that through discard um it's it's humbling to say the least like the feedbacks that we get both good in terms of the wins and also in terms of the learnings right so the things that we can actually take that as a learning for the the future of the charlatans right so that brings to the the next topic that I wanted to talk about is the future right so I think Max sort of eluded a lot of things in his presentation but specifically what I I want to think about is one to give a cue into the future of State Wars like post phase one what is Phase two's ability to take the stakehorse further down right so um I want to kind of get a little more into like what are you guys planning in terms of the next episodes for the state course so I think we've learned a lot of lessons right we continue to learn as this is actually the third stake War so we've gotten a lot of good feedback from the community we've got some new tools we're building we're looking at tools for auto delegation managing stake doing some things like that so that's from kind of the organizations side and then of course as we continue to expand sharding we're talking about more validators so we've got to bring them through the process of uh onboarding them and and helping educate them through the process so that's kind of what will be in store for the next stake Wars kind of what we've been doing but Lessons Learned and continue to apply and get better absolutely yeah yeah for me there are two main lessons the first one is technology changes but human behavioral design doesn't change so there's a lot of interesting game theory of when you're introducing incentives to any situation the humans May behave in ways that were not intended so I think there's a lot of lessons around structuring the competition in a way that leads to the desired outcome like we battle tested the code but some incentives had to be tweaked along the way so we've got a nice Playbook now on how to optimize for future iterations the second one which I mentioned very briefly is when you look at the community aspect it also requires commitment like we're really proud to be on the community side as Builders and to be able to represent the stakers and validators but Community requires the commitment to show up and it's basically a full-time workload and you want to you need to be aligned with the ultimate outcome to be able to do the sacrifices along the way and I guess it's a message to everyone in the community to get involved but also it's not just you know shouting loudly on Twitter it's showing up and doing the work awesome yeah for being here like stick war is never just about you know onboarding more violiners I think like what's more like more like even more Virgo first is that we've heard a lot of feedback and we've received many good submissions from the tenants we posted I think like one is about um violators stats and Mystics and the other one is about um taking form like those I think those things are you know a very sort of you know core to the to the near protocol level and in fact it's taking a form which is very unique to near I think that's sort of you know like the real value of stick war so you actually get get get get the community involved and you turn on more and more people to think about near and to create and to create on top of near and yeah we think that's really the core value of stick war and obviously we're gonna you know stay along with the you know with the progress of of sharding and onboarding more violators and on the other hand we're going to keep building the community uh yeah and just keep you know building around near near staking and make it more more powerful in the future you know that makes sense George do you want to add something or I can actually switch to the next I actually want to say that um going forward the reputation will matter a lot on your blockchain and people will be taken to validators not only because there is a lower fee but because this failure has some kind of a good reputation and as our Chardon progresses on its roadmap it's not going to be just big players like here on a panel today who Stick or or become validators but you're gonna see enthusiasts participating too and so the small time validators will will fight for their reputation yeah and they would want to contribute certain features and they would want to build the community and have some kind of multiplicative effect and this is what I'm really looking forward for that that's that's a very good point I think we are looking at a lot of large Partners but I think the learning has been going forward more and more individual uh smaller set of groups so we can decentralize in some way to have more validators right in in terms of expanding on the decentralization approach so that totally makes sense yeah all right I I think um from here I kind of want to go into the realm of uh the future like what is it as Builders can expect more um in specific to sharding but much more than that right we talked about easily upgradeable bring any feature and we will kind of parody match uh like any retailer does so uh yeah I just want to just double click on that more and and talk about composability which the questions comes on hey should we solve that on layer one or Layer Two where should that responsibility lie on so if you have any commentary around that yeah absolutely developer experience is sacred to near and as Henry said already no one have even noticed that Chardon phases have been launched because they didn't need to update their smart contracts and this hasn't happened randomly we actually put a lot of thought into it we knew from the very early days that we don't want to interfere with the already deployed smart contracts so we're going to continue developing in the direction of developer experience and we're going to leverage all kind of Integrations so that when you come to near you don't need to learn anything new there should not be should not be better we should not have any barrier for the onboarding for people coming on near and so that's where the Integrations with other blockchains can would come in because you would just either migrate or integrate the same goes for the virtual machine so the programming languages that we're going to support so that's I think that you should be looking specifically forward for totally makes sense and I think it's time to wrap up like any last pointer like why any Builders out here want to use specific linear for building apps or just being validators community so just quickly if you can go in rounds and yeah I'll just go back to the key points you know if you're looking at developing on near right we've expanded the number of shards we've increased you know the number of validators that will continue to change and evolve but it's no change to you as a Dev so right it's a simple interface whether using rust or JavaScript with front-end development you can come in and build on near and not really have to worry about the tech so that I think that makes near very compelling and scalable for Developers many reasons to build a nearer but maybe specific to sharding and stake Wars I like that decentralization is very intentional as well like when you look at a network being decentralized the nodes need to be both sprayed out geographically but also politically and being very intentional about reaching out to the community and enabling them to join the validator set you will actually see a very meaningful distribution of the near across many validators and that really makes the network resilient and yeah it's just very exciting to be able to get involved at any layer of the stack it could be a validator a builder a user yeah Stanley yeah I think the next step was yeah it's actually to you to grow usage because uh we've got the best info we've got the best community we've got a very decentralized group of validators and you know now it's time to you know make 100 of Youth of it right so uh and for us we're gonna keep facilitating that sort of breaching process between the best infra to the most used infra yeah so that's our vision excellent George so uh from my perspective one of the great advantages that you have on on the new ecosystem and on your protocol is the flexibility that we have on the technology side to actually Implement support and add features and add improvements to the protocol that are related to the applications you're developing so sharding or JavaScript support or many other things that we've done in the past and that we help plan in the future are examples in this space where we have the flexibility on the technology side to make things happen and we are super super keen and super willing to hear feedback from you regarding what are the things you would like to see inside a protocol and to find ways to make those happen Max so with near the developers that build smart contracts on the blockchain are not just the users of the blockchain they're also the Builders of this blockchain so the earlier you join the more you will be able to affect the roadmap of the near protocol many of the vertical features like pre-compiles today are actually were proposed by the contract builders so that's the opportunity to come in and create exponential impact for the future roadmap of the near blockchain yeah absolutely just to wrap up it's it's just amazing what you're hearing I think if you really want to get your hands dirty you have to come and start proposing and building and as he mentioned Ori is presenting NEP it's it's the way of proposing and contributing the code base as well and we really encourage you guys to starts submitting proposals or at the least come to the Pagoda Booth here if you have any questions comments suggestions we are happy to take anything so we it has to be completely communicable and we really encourage that so one last note so as Ilya mentioned we go by KISS principle which is keep it simple secure and scalable so remember just that if you can't remember anything else so thank you for coming and a big round of applause to the whole panel hey everybody I hope you enjoyed the break I hope you got to try some of the great food we have out there from different regions I really want to thank you for coming out and uh joining us here at near con this year it's been a great turnout I hope you're managing to keep dry out there so yeah we have some great great panels coming up I hope that you guys enjoy them I want to introduce a young Jean she's going to be speaking about crossing the chasm how to make bridges safe hello hi all right thank you Marcus and thank you all for joining us today on this discussion around making Bridges safe so I'd like to bring up uh to uh the stage our panelists for today so let's go ahead and if you wouldn't mind coming up we have glass from composable Finance kiddo from Aurora labs and Jess from archway all right so I would love to give each of you like a minute to kind of introduce yourselves what you do and um kind of what brought you to nircon totally um so I can start because I'm sitting right here uh my name is Jessica Solomon um unfortunately not Jessica Solomon however that would be pretty dope and so I work on a number of different things I actually started my career back in the ethereum ecosystem I was the first Community manager at maker Dow started at the launch of single collateral dye in 2017. since then I've begun Consulting doing strategy working on a number of different exciting projects within web3 it's been awesome to see how the entire web 3 ecosystem has really grown especially near and everything that's popping off at these festivities but currently I'm here working on a project called Archway Archway is pretty cool it's a smart Contracting platform for Cosmos so basically a way for people to deploy dapps and access Cosmos assets as cosmos is a large ecosystem where with lots of different chains so sort of a concentration of all that awesome yeah uh hi I'm kiril I'm leading the Rainbow Bridge team in Aurora Labs building everything related to the bridges to cross-chain interoperability and yeah like we are trying to build and we're working real hard super hard to have a bridge which is safe because yeah you know like this is quite an issue that's that's why we're here on the panel to discuss this thing um yeah like I'm quite for a long time in blockchain for many years and yeah excited to build these things and excited to be here on this great conference I'm glass I've been in crypto for some time I started building a derivatives exchange on top of lighting Network then moved to ethereum worked on CG Roll-Ups I'm currently leading the trusted Bridges I composer of Finance so we're working very hard to make this happen and working side by side with near and very excited to be here and being part of his amazing movement awesome so thank you all for joining me this afternoon um so obviously this last year has been a little bit crazy I mean from Wormhole to Nomad to Ronan according to chain analysis roughly two billion dollars right two billion has been lost to bridge hacks in the last year that's an astronomical number and yes that's very crazy but I feel like the media narratives just you know dominated by that um obviously you know whether we're talking about like end users or Builders as we're moving towards Mass adoption like interoperability is inevitable right and so if we're thinking about it from that perspective of well it's something that's got to happen um I feel like the big question is how do we make that interoperability as safe as possible and so that brings us to our discussion today um to kicking things off like I said obviously it's been a crazy year um I'd love to ask each of you kind of what have you learned from the recent you know high profile hacks how are you guys kind of approaching the way you think about things and solve problems and build yeah absolutely so uh in terms of a number of the high profile attacks recently one of the things I've observed is is often not a problem with the actual model it could be as simple as a smart contract there however a lot of these Bridges have received extremely legitimate Audits and have been verified that being said I'd say audits while extremely important aren't necessarily the Silver Bullet the end-all be-all as someone that works on projects that cares a lot about the ecosystem and end users feeling confident and not terrified from these essentially terrifying hacks I'd love to help put out more bounties for white hat hackers to try and exploit and and find certain vulnerabilities before things actually come to Market and we suffer consequences that could have potentially been avoided with some smart white hat hackers um yeah so um well you know like a lot of bridges that were hacked uh they actually were having like a great team behind them and yeah as just said uh they had like some audits but it's just not enough and for some for example bridges for hugs that happened um like if we talk retrospectively of course it's easier to talk this way uh some of the issues were because um of the processes so it's just not enough to have an audit because some of the hacks happened uh exactly because um like the smart contract deployment or upgrades went wrong and it went wrong not it just went wrong and it's a mediated hacked so it was like this in the state for a couple of months until somebody noticed it so I would say it's it's about um General approach if we talk how to make it safe so let's compare to some like real world uh like situation like if we talk about some robots like robust Fails Like aerial industry usually if you want to build a plane you need to go like three million checkups from million audits eventually you have like safe flights um but it comes like a huge value behind that so for building the bridge from my perspective perhaps they ideal approach would be like let's say to use waterfall uh like technology to go from multiple stage from the design it written but then just one Bridge could take like five six seven years to build just because it's quite slow to iterate and the blockchain unfortunately you have no chance if you don't if you build your products for years and years and you don't deliver anything you have no chance actually to have it and nobody will use it you will build the safest bridge but nobody will use it for years and after these years and um like from my perspective we have like basically two approaches to build a bridge and um these are main ones uh with regards to what kind of let's call it consensus of the bridge so the most popular one is when you have multiple of chain validators that just accept some transaction on one chain they verify it with off-chain tools and um then they like mean some tokens on the other chain and most of the bridges work in this way uh and the second approach is that for example we are using up to the Rainbow Bridge is basically we are building light clients for every chain that is connected to the bridge this makes a lot of sense from our perspective just because if you imagine just building some application on the chain for you you don't care about consensus because you you are on the same chain and you verify something so with a bridge if you build like light client base for you it's the similar approach you just know that these smart contracts it has a history of the other blockchain and I can trust it as far as the live client is implemented correctly so in some sense it's easier to build with light clients in a sense that we don't really need to put like a lot of security like of traditional security of ensuring that the validator is not hacked the like keys are not compromised because it's trustless it's built on top of light clients and you trusted but it's trustless because anyone can participate and submit to that consensus so yeah in some sense building with validators it's easier but then it's harder to maintain but here if you build the proper one live client then you actually get rid of a lot of pain afterwards yeah I think the the main issue is that we are catching up with the technology in in how the user need is evolving and the and the constraints of the different chains so some years ago ethereum was enough then suddenly it was not enough anymore then new chains were developed you have near as a great example and then suddenly you have a lot of ecosystems that are isolated and then the need of connecting them came but this change in some way they don't move as fast as the needs of the market so then there was the need of bringing this technology uh in a way that perhaps was not compliant with the chain necessarily so these Solutions will arose uh The Trusted solutions that is the quick and and dirty solutions that we've been using that some of them have been working really well but we've we started seeing that they have also limitations uh a lot of attack vectors and even some setups that were more secure than other ones were also compromised um so we we realized that there's a need for standardization so that we don't reinvent the wheel all the time uh a bit uh okay it was saying in terms of like using like clients but for that you need the different ecosystems to support that infrastructure so I think like having this conversation and the need from the the market being so big is actually forcing the chains on you know giving this this infrastructure to to the builders the infrastructure Builders as well um so to say and and I think in some other way we need to agree when we need to take a page from the the internet Evolution and say how are we going to communicate with each other let's agree on this let's say this is an efficient way to do this and let's not talk again about this every time let's not build a new company all this every time we don't talk about TCP we don't talk about HTTP it's a standard we all agree and then we build on top of that so so I think this is what's happening at the moment um and it's kind of converging and all these hacks uh are basically accelerating this movement thank you so I guess I have a bit of a spicy question do you think that cross chain vulnerabilities are just inevitable and whoever wants to go first I can go first I think yes I mean there's always a smart contract risk uh uh it's always a human error and there's always somebody being smarter than somebody else the question is how can we mitigate this and I think this of you know white hacker bounties for example is a great way of mitigating these things I think there's a lot that can be you know innovated on the on the insurance uh space is very very little Innovation still uh so I think there's probably the best route moving forward is you know uh mitigation and Open Standards yeah I totally agree I think vulnerabilities are in many ways inevitable and it's sort of our job to protect users and help discover those vulnerabilities before they happen so generous white hat hackers so many of you guys out there want to receive some generous bounties hit us up um uh from I agree with guys uh though from my perspective it's not just balances that could help this um so we think uh like uh in our Labs or about the bridge and about basically any question like a multi-layer um process of ensuring the security so first of all like um if you build some smart contracts it's not just you deploy it so basically it's ongoing the first stage of the Audis of the bridge team itself and it's been verified quite thoroughly uh then the second stage it's been verified by some other folks like from other teams like to take a look at it more and only after this we are coming to the station not even to the audience we are coming to the stage to the preparation of the audience so you need uh to prepare a lot of documentations you need to write a lot of tests and with regards to tests um we believe that its responsibility of Engineers themselves to cover it with the tests so it's not like just a separate QA team when you write some code and any blockchain related code it's it's security critical so basically you need to put a lot of effort to cover everything with the test different ones integration once unit tests this is a quite a meticulous process only after this when everything is prepared it goes to the audit and not only one audits and you can never like be just reliable just on the audit you know especially if some people sometimes they just they possibly owed it and then okay we will want to add just one small feature it's fine but that's just one very very small feature could introduce actually vulnerability and uh so yeah multiple all these are required not just only one uh preferably like from different companies uh that are not biased already to the code and then comes the thing with bounties yeah so with some of the bridges with some of the hacks we can see that they actually introduce bounties after they got hacked so they are hacked and then they are asking like black hats could you please return and we will give you some bounty unfortunately this doesn't work usually and so yeah you need to introduce Bounties in advance and for us it was quite fruitful I would say so we paid out the biggest bound like the second biggest bounty in a blockchain space which was like for 6 million and after that we paid like a couple more bounties like resulting like an insane amount of 8 million of US Dollars and for whiteheads this is like amazing opportunity to participate it makes it easier because you don't need to you know you if you like a black hat and you steal a money then like basically you have an issue that this funds are frozen for years you are trying to get not caught by legal um like different teams which are like intelligence teams which are hunting for you so it's better just select some project that have a good bike bounty program and please be a whitehead and receive like a huge reward and uh also not not Financial rewards you will get a recognition uh in a public space so yeah awesome so yeah if anyone is you know considering hacking something you know do it for good you know be a white hat for a black hat all right so I guess for the builders if you're considering you know utilizing a bridge um what are some steps you should take to keep it as safe as possible obviously like you know as you're building your project you can't protect for everything like that's just another an inevitable truth and security right like you can't protect against every single vulnerability but you know what can you do to keep it as safe as possible yeah so um basically as I said it's like a multi-layer thing uh to make a protection um but also behind it you really need to have a security team um who is able to quickly react to any incidents um like 24 7. you cannot afford having like just a weekend for security hackers will not wait until you get back to your work schedule um so yeah you need really to have 24 7 someone who is on the call and who will be able to react quickly you need to build a robust monitoring system I mean this monitoring system they are not public so uh you will not get like I don't know like more user traction just because you build monitoring system but this is an essential thing that you need to build just to protect your users it could be invisible from the outside so that it's nothing happening but you really need to build a robust internal monitoring system and like of our CDL is some public monitoring too so everyone is able to verify yeah I think in terms of data analysis there's a lot of things that can be done I was the other day looking at a tool not related to Bridges but they were monitoring system calls and based on the pattern of access to a program you could basically say okay this is malicious activity and this can also be you know done for anything smart contract access or Unchained activity as well where you can just say okay no this is a historical access patterns what is normal what is abnormal and you know trigger alerts this I think there's a lot that can be done on the space uh so it's it's really nothing really hurts yeah like these guys said I think in web3 we're all sort of working together on this stuff so uh as someone that works on projects that would rely on Bridges um we want to support those teams where we can and help discover what could potentially be risky for our users ahead of time and then of course help our users feel safe so that they continue to be a part of the web 3 ecosystem moving forward awesome all right so I have one last question and then we're gonna open it up for a little bit of q a um if we have some time so I guess to wrap things up what really excites you right now like what's getting you motivated um is there something you want to share about that you're just like really you know like just it gets you up in the morning um yeah for sure we all need reasons to wake up and the morning here and because we don't always have this awesome carnival going on with Ferris wheels and carousels but yeah so one of the things that I'm working on Archway that I find particularly interesting and what we're entertaining is becoming sort of a hub for IBC assets um from near so that rather than having multiple different representations of like usdc for example from a through Zed chain on IBC there could be a sort of concentration of liquidity within archway um I would say that's one of the things that we should really focus is like from our vision it's really like the bridge uh you need to put a lot of effort to make it trustless as much as possible so the process of making it trustless it's hard I mean um you need because you are building trusses you need to ensure that any actor can participate but they cannot be uh emulation sector or if they are malicious then they will not get through it's like similar to the blockchain approach I mean on the blockchain We Trust some consensus whether it's proof of work or proof of stake but it's decentralized if we build decentralized Bridges well then it changes everything like with the blockchain like another like evolution of the blockchain because like by default blockchains are not interoperable with each other and if we come to the question like whether they need to be interoperable well um the people in the community they say that they should be uh like it's it will not work if you just need to stick to one chain not anymore you basically use like one two five chains whatever and yeah I mean for the bridges uh I like like one of the quotes it's not related to the blockchain bridges but it fits actually really well by American comedian Jerry Seinfeld who was saying like nobody wants to build a bridge it's really really hard uh so but we need to build it so actually Community they are able to you know like get all the beauty and all the features of the block chains of different blockchains to have like one echo system that interconnected that is secure so it's in some sense it's blockchain of blockchains for us I think a bit television um composer what really excites us is to become invisible I think we we want this to get the best from web 2 in web 3. this idea of truly intervaliability where the user doesn't really need to understand what's going on what's going on under a hood and things just work I think when when these panels you know don't exist anymore our work has probably been done the right way and then we can think of something bigger but it's a hard problem right now that we're putting a lot of effort onto improving awesome thank you so much um so big round of applause for our panelists thank you um and um we have just about like five minutes if some of you want to come up uh to ask a question we have this mic right up here um and uh please feel free to pop up um yeah do you have a question yeah I have um yeah I have a lot of thoughts on this the uh the gentleman in the middle that just suggested like a blockchain of blockchains I actually work for that project that's been built uh all the bridges are root cryptographically secure on both sides um and the first bridge is live on the ethereum test net now and it goes live at mainnet in about two weeks time straight after the merge the Project's called Veris v-e-r-u-s dot IO it means truth the lead Dev was the CTO of Microsoft for advertising one of 22 technical fellows in the history of Microsoft he architected and built.net which is the world's largest virtual machine and argues that that is the wrong design for blockchains so just to go back a step if you use the company like Starbucks for example they're a perfect use case for web3 they have a huge loyalty uh yeah you know branded loyalty uh currency through their gift cards with billions of value that they can't put on there on the a balance sheet but but under a community currency they could right and if that Community currency was fully fungible with Nike's and whatnot and they were all interoperable that would be basically the the use case of web3 so that's exactly what we facilitate um but I don't think a company like Nike or like uh Starbucks are going to participate in an ecosystem that has smart contract risk that has Mev that has front running that has back running so all of those things need to be dealt with before you're going to get proper actualization of web 3 and I think saying to a hacker that could potential whose potential upside is you know millions of dollars of value hey we're not you know you give up that value but get the recognition and do it for the right reasons I just don't see that happening and you know how much money should a company spend on audits like it's very common for a company to do three audits I'm still there to be a smart contract bug so or you know an exploit like it's you know how much do they how much should they spend of the money that they raise or that they generate or whatever to security if if the underlying uh protocol is flawed so I would love to speak to all of you but you were basically outlines what we've created it's been four or five years in the making and it's it's basically Fully live at mainnet in the next two weeks so varus.io if anyone wants to look it up or speak to me I'm around um yeah so if we talk about uh uh if I get your question correctly so um um yeah of course if you build the bridges between let's say two different protocols and some of the protocols they have its own vulnerability for sure it's um for you a question how do you address this uh do you want to add okay yeah so so what we actually do is again it's beyond my technical understanding uh that that once you get into the Super technicals of this but um there are validations that happen on both sides that need to be uh uh that needs to be approved you know before uh the the the the bridge can function and it's not just trusting an oracle or a smart contract that can be duped it's actually root cryptographically secured so I'm saying we've built the solution I'm not asking necessarily the question I'm just you know saying that like I don't think what you outlined with the uh the white hat program is going to work and I think that you know people much smarter than me have have come up with a really robust solution and I'd love to share it with you you described it when you told when you spoke about so when you spoke about a blockchain of blockchains that's exactly what it is and so anyone can bridge to Varys and every anyone that does bridge to Varys has safe secure um and safe interoperability with any other chain that the network touches so the more people that bridge to it the the system itself is is fully interoperable but any other bridges that so say you know polygon makes a bridge then um whatever Solana makes a bridge then Nia makes a bridge now now if you're a polygon you can now bridge to those blockchains as well super secure yeah yeah I I get this uh it's nice to hear that you are building such a project and yeah um with regards to your comments uh on the white hat on the recognition and funds I think it actually makes a lot of sense because as I mentioned previously if you're a black hat well you can get something hacked but it's not just like in the real world that if you've stolen some funds that you will be able to use it so some of the black hats we can see like historically they are holding their value like not moving for years and uh it depends on your goal if you really want to commit uh to like a good and bright future of the blockchain but also in order to get some recognition to get like some financing it's better to be whiteheads in like of course this depends a lot of the projects so if some projects they announce like a huge Bounty but then they are not paying it out for some reasons then of course people will not commit any more to this program there will be it's it's hard to attract people to actually participate in the program but yeah you need to do your best and there's also a question that um you need to try to ensure some fans of the users uh like for example we all we have some projects on Aurora that are Insurance used in France unfortunately we were not able to find some partner who is able to ensure all the funds locked on a rainbow bridge but yeah if anyone I like is willing to participate we will be open and really happy to have it yeah I think what you just said is is interesting and I think there's some validity to that but ultimately comes back to my last point about big Brands just not going to trust the technology where there's those kind of vulnerabilities and I think you know we need to look for better Solutions and you know as I said I'm part of a community that I think has has uh actually solved this problem so I'd love to share with you guys offline or as I said if anyone wants to speak to me I'm around all right awesome thank you for that um unfortunately we're out of time but if you have questions for the panelists you know where to find them um all right well I wanted to say thank you again for this amazing conversation and obviously if you all are interested in bridges these are some wonderful people to speak with so thank you again and one more round of applause yeah thank you thank you thank you guys hey thank each of you for coming up and discussing what is certainly one of the most Salient topics in the space right now uh definitely holding us back a little bit um so up next we have Lindsey Crawford of proximity labs along with some of the most exciting D5 projects building on near right now discussing the topic of building a defy ecosystem on near foreign thank you for coming to listen and on a little bit of what we're doing um for near defy and joining me up here will be Arjun and the CEO is it is there an echo no okay um the CEO Owen head of partnership sub orderly networks um as well as d-rob Bora who is the co-founder of stator labs um Didier Perroni is the product manager at rev Finance um and Igor um multiple hats founder and CEO of pemrack and as well as Works closely with ink C4 come on up hey so I wanted to start off with first diving into a little bit about your backgrounds as well as defining defy for members in the crowd that maybe are newer to the space or newer to the nuances so let's start with you Arjun I actually can't hear you I'm sorry sorry I can't hear you you can't hear me no okay I know that they were having a little bit of an issue earlier with us let's see how are you I don't think they're able to hear are you able to hear now yeah just slightly louder okay um so specifically um understanding a little bit of what you're building as well as uh your definition on of D5 okay so um my name is Arjun and really nice to be here with all of these guys uh we are building orderly Network we're a modular order book decks built on top of near we're looking to build uh infrastructure or as I like to call it looking to build the plumbing underneath the D5 ecosystem on there great and then D Raj um we'd love to hear a little bit about what you're working on hey guys this is David I'm one of the co-founders of stereo protocol we are a multi-chain liquid sticking protocol we build liquid sticking Staples Structured Products on top of staking across six blockchains uh nearest the latest blockchain that we've launched on and we have about 120 million dollars in dvl today and Didier um what are you working on at ref yeah well I'm the project manager of refinance which is the first automated Market maker within the entire near ecosystem and uh yeah really really glad to Define ourselves as the One-Stop shop for D5 products on your protocol great um and Igor what are you working on at pen Rock hi everyone I'm doing blockchain development and thing four and we are the team who bring to you Pembroke Finance which is first leverage yield farming protocol on near um and just a little bit Arjun diving into defy itself um would you mind describing kind of your version of defy and then what orderly is doing just to solve it's a good question so the way I see Defy is an opportunity for everyone to control their finances um and that's a very high level and easy way in some very something very easy to say um but coming back to your question in terms of what orderly you're doing we're trying to create the efficiency and the structure and the infrastructure specifically for other projects to be able to supply ease of access when it comes to defy to mass Market retail great and then at stator what are you guys doing uh for D5 I mean liquid staking is is obviously a very Capital efficient efficient enabling move uh on a ecosystem like on near where about 45 of of the near is Stig that's a lot of near that state and not accessible to defy so uh with Solutions like ours we introduce Capital efficiency we introduce portion of that 45 percent of veneers take to also be able to interact with other D5 protocols and um that's probably the singular biggest uh D5 volume driver uh and and I see us as the enabler for that an Igor passing the mic yeah well I think one of the key value propositions of D5 is basically how easily do you have access to the solution right without asking any permissions and then that's the first thing and then the second problem to solve is basically um how do you provide well for ref good prices right but I think for orderly it's also the same problem to solve because at the end of The Journey you're basically competing with you know binance coinbase for prices so I think the first problem to solve is yeah how easily people do have access to your products then how good your prices are and yeah if you have this I would say for I mean strong base then then you can think about how can you attract you know new users so yeah um and for Arjun if we're thinking about the General near ecosystem and and staying competitive how do you think near itself will attract more users specifically to defy so it's for Europe the system it's like different every ecosystem is way different nearest good for defy mostly because it's fast it's secure usually it comes to user-friendly experience at all part of your building either you are building Builder or you are a user who just want to jump in defy because like the files finance and decentralized no single point of failure fast transaction time scaling sharding and it's still small town with family like culture you can pin people who are doing refinance leverage token order book you want you have everybody in the same place and it's still easier to access if you will compare to other ecosystem everybody is like high level business stuff so here is really friendly or is a really fast good looking nice account structure easy to use you can have Mobile Wallet metamask wallet Ledger stuff whatever stuff you want yeah and Arjun what's your take on that as far as the near ecosystem and how to attract additional users so I think ease of access is the most important piece um I think we're doing a good job as a broader ecosystem to to provide those world of tools but we're probably the very very early phase of what that look looks like my take is we're doing a very good job towards that I'll use ref as an example right like if you were to go and look at like the top D5 protocols across the other largest chains like some of them look great but you look at the newest UI upgrades on ref like in my opinion they're Flawless like those are the things that are going to bring retail in terms of ability to be able to use it but there's obviously a marketing job um there's an infrastructure piece it's all great having the best UI but the back end needs to be fantastic and Flawless as well we need to deliver the right type of product engineer as far as your response to that specifically with rev obviously your UI ux is incredible so um how are you bringing users to use such a user-friendly application well yeah that's a good question I I think Forest there's really three pieces the first one is yeah uh basically prices how good are our prices then the second one is obviously the the quality of the infrastructure right and to attract new users we need to incentivize people to you know try the products and potentially create a network effect so I think liquidity is a big um you know elsewhere within the ecosystem even I guess the ecosystem is turning uh to a new point at the moment with less incentive right but I think this is still a key piece of the ecosystem and then how easy people can build on top of us to create new products right like yield farming is such a great example what Pembroke is doing on top of Finance for example but we have so many things right so for refinance from our perspective it's you know the SDK like the software development kit and how good it is and then people can just create on top of us many verticals right so but once you once you bring like new users then the question is how do you retain them how do you avoid uh you know churn and I think this is also like a good question right because we are still so early um I'm thinking about I think at ref we have in total more than 100 000 new unique users since Inception but when you have a look at Instagram at you know the creation of Instagram it was 100 000 users new users per week right so I think we need to to be humble compared to web 2 and it still very early but uh yeah we definitely need those numbers to go ahead right um in Igor for your perspective what does that look like as far as converting web2 users to web3 and how do you do that within D5 yeah so while we onboard new users there is like a lot of types of what you call new users there's the users inside in your ecosystem which just never interacted with our product without with our protocol there is the users in Webster ecosystem which never interacted either with near or our protocol answer is users who are familiar with web 2 and they are familiar with all the world around them but never encountered crypto and for every this group there is a different scenario and there is a different approach while we're talking about people in web 2 they're familiar with financial system everybody use loans everybody use deposits everybody have some yields credit score ranking they can borrow Capital they are familiar with trading infrastructure a lot of people made money on stock a lot of people familiar with Robin Hood and usually you try to show them that crypto is it's the same but decentralized more secure more transparent with everything controlled by you this is the main idea why we make this Finance decentralized we do want to remove single point of failure and we want to make everything work on Smart contract player on validators layer on the layer of components which could not fail and you can use them with without any with without asking permission without asking for their work and schedule except Solana without asking like do I need to have passport nationality credit card whatever stuff you need to have access to your whatever seat phrase Ledger anyway you can sign transaction you can interact with near protocol and moreover you do not need to waste enormous amount of time it's really fast it's really transparent and it's really user understandable so how to import web 2 people to webstree usually through education materials you just show them that this is the same but better you want to have a loan you go to a bank you provide some kind of collateral and you get additional money you want to have a loan you go to any Landing protocol provide collateral borrow something against this is part of Pembroke mechanics you can provide your Bitcoin as collateral you can borrow ethereum Pembroke usn put it in stake in in farming rewards in refinance make some guilt have profit return your collateral you can do the same with orderly you want to have exposure to near but you a little bit shy so you go to lending protocol put I know you want Bitcoin as collateral you want Tesla escalator borrow one year go to air orderly execute your strategy based on it you can I know long short wherever you want to do but this is full Financial system with same banks with same collaterals with same assets with same Equity but everything what going on controlled by you it's regulated in a good way it's do not have enormous limitation like you can just draw no more than 100 bucks from ATM machine in some country you need to go to bank exactly and working hours you need to sign an almost amount of papers like your whole family allow you to do this this is fast convenient transparent you just need to show to web to people what they can do with this because sometimes you just do not know it yeah I think that was a great explanation for onboarding um as far as comparing near to other chains and maybe why you pick near to build on um what does that look like for you guys when you were making your decision for ref um you mean if we picked up why did we pick up near correct so actually we didn't choose because uh Helia the well the founder of near started ref uh I guess because trading um cryptos is potentially the second primitive after the blockchain right so you can send receive any token the native token but then the second use case is usually how can you you know swap one token for another so Elia created ref uh more than one year ago to create I guess this first vertical so we inherited ref uh but I guess yeah the near from a user perspective two things right it's very cheap and it's very fast like one two two second finality so the user experience is very different and from a builder perspective I would say well the community is really amazing and because I guess till the beginning there's a lot of communication going through uh projects so you have access to orderly you have access to Pembroke you have access to you know neighborhood projects which makes it a very friendly ecosystem because it's still young right um yeah that's my answer then how are you building that community that you obviously it's going quite well but then how do you kind of continue that growth what does that look like well I'm not sure to have the right answer to that but I guess it's kind of a philosophy and what I like within the near ecosystem is the give first approach someone is asking for something someone is asking for your help give first and then we will see you know what happened next but I guess there is this uh companionship which is very um yeah which I really like within the ecosystem so just give first when someone needs help make sure you can provide you know like a relevant elsewhere to that and that I guess that's That's How Strong communities can grow yeah that definitely builds trust um what about you Arjun for orderly how are you building Community what does that look like so for us near feels like uh the most obvious and easy fit obviously orderly is incubated by Wu network from the expertise on the trading side and then we get the expertise from Ilia and the rest of the the near team in terms of how we can scale a central limit order book um no different to didier's comment in terms of experience it's fast it's cheap it's secure and it scales for us coming back to your original question the second one regarding like bringing users the users that require the functionality for a central limit order book can't sit there and wait for a trade uh they can't wait for optimal gas they need to be able to do it in micro a milliseconds nears the clear obvious choice to support that infrastructure but of course allow the experience for those users brought it um and as far as kind of going down the Dow Rabbit Hole um what does that look like for you building out a dow with pemrock do you have any tips or advice or kind of a road map that you've used yourself only start of our story because though but for it's a middle part between fully centralized to fully decentralized because right now pembroke's still controlled by team yes we have pretty fresh project we fundraised literally this February March so we are on our roadmap and we are building something and to build everything fast yes smart contracts is then centralized near is decentralized ever since there but there is still Keys who can upload something who can make changes to contract and while you want to go fast and while you're building something you need to have some kind of strong hand and Leadership to figure out what you are doing and how you are doing but for Next Period of time I'm not the one who know everything and usually having a lot of smart head is way better than have one smart guy so we want to have a Dao and we want to onboard the smartest people in industry or the smartest people who are willing to work with leverage yield farming and we want them to make proposal suggestion decision and we want them to communicate because right now Pembroke team is the only team who are making decision do we want to have usn on board or not do you want to have stable pools or not do we want to have stake at liquids taken we want to have exposure to other currency we are taking this decision based on our expertise but our expertise is not the final amount it's just like average like for okay like smart people but average smart people and we want to make other people have option to put a suggestion have option to vote something have ocean to veto something and there is like it's not something in the like wherever we want to do in 20 years it's taking decision on an action-based plan so we have Community rewards we have reward distribution schedule we have down synthesization and they can do the tutorial right now so they want to work for some kind of marketing initiatives they want to develop something they want to provide a grant for somebody and it working so it's part from centralized system to fully decentralized system and the journey goes down what about you for stator what does that look like kind of your definition of a Dao and um yeah um well I think Dao means different things for different people and different protocols uh my opinion of a Dao is it's a place to be heard right it's a place for people to put their points out unfortunately I think that was across other blockchains in particular they aren't where they need to be they're in serving the purpose uh they ought to one of the things that we have done at stator although we do not have an official doubt for it is uh you know we are always led by our community we very very carefully listen to uh you know what's happening on telegram on on Discord on Twitter and in fact half of status features are driven by community at this point so uh that's that's essentially my definition of Tao how about for you Arjun the beginning piece is exactly how I feel like you have community members token holders core contributors Dow contributors they all fit within a dow but don't necessarily mean the same thing um and it's really important especially in the beginning exactly as their Arch management is listening uh to the community um but also not letting it slow you down I think it's very very easy to have a large amount of potential token holders or interested community members that can potentially guide you away or create noise create chaos towards your soul goal um I'm a very fond believer of progressive governance um especially depending on the protocols especially within defiant delegated governance um there are a lot more smarter people out there that can make better decisions for the protocol than me as an example I would love to delegate my voting rights in the hands of somebody else who can make those more informed decisions and I think we love the idea within web 3 of being able to vote being really really small or really really big and having that opportunity to vote but we also have to be really thoughtful and really mindful about what that really means especially when we're talking about the the future of what tvl for a protocol might look like future decisions future listings future direction of billion future billion dollar companies um and I think putting control in the hands of the right type of people whilst or at least sorry given the opportunity to people to give control to the right type of people to make more informed decisions is what I see as Progressive doubt I know we have a few minutes left here I'd love to hear um what you think is missing in the near defy ecosystem what do we still need to have Builders doing on on your D5 users we are working users so if you use Pembroke Finance just raise your hand if you use Pembroke Finance okay it's good it's good who of you use uh refinance should be like way more uh same people okay like I see you and I completely sure that a lot of you will use ordle in future or liquids taking protocol so we are liking users because this this is not like full room and we need to work hard about our like marketing materials about our coverage because as technology as base level near is already good there is a lot of unrealized potential technology is awesome we need to push a little bit harder on marketing we need to push a little bit harder about knowledge because I I cannot compare it with like literally no competitors Bitcoin slow ethereum expensive binance machine is a joke you don't like you don't go with your friends validator salana is you know it it is what it is other blockchain like Carolyn already that so near is like the best blockchain to do something fast scalable ordinarily is the only blockchain which is possible it's near because you do it you cannot run order book with small transaction you will have transactions like 0.00 I know like four zeros or eight zeros like they will trade Satoshi to move satosha ethereum you need to pay like a fortune you can do it on binance but it's not like it's not decentralized it's not secure you can call your friends and do this this and this so near is a great technology level I'm really fascinated by idea of having all the regional hubs to integrate with all this stuff so we just need to import users we are liking this I agree yeah I agree with ego I think we have like great use cases new use cases like sweat you know lifestyle uh world to learn we have also a great infrastructure for institutions for analytics right I want to have a better understanding of my market what's my user base how much in average my user are spending and we have those answers and I think that's we stand out too um on on on the data and analytics side and uh yeah I think we're getting better at solving problems right so uh refinance for example we just that's how that's our New York on surprise but we just released the concentrated liquidity feature one hour ago on test Nets congratulations um so yeah I think we're getting better at you know optimizing liquidity but there is one there is one piece that we cannot control which is resilience so etherum they have you know ethereum was created 10 years ago and people well this thing has been existing for 10 years near has been existing for two years and a half so how resilient are we and I think this depends on a function of time so we just need also to to be a bit more patient to demonstrate that near is a resilient ecosystem yes I fully agree with that well we are at time thank you all so much for your expertise um and that's what's happening with near defy right now and lots lots of good stuff to come so thank you for listening thanks guys thank you guys cool thank each and every one of you for coming up here and uh shedding some light on what you're building as well as uh sharing your thoughts on the current climate of building defy on near um up next I would like to introduce another wonderful human being you may have heard of him who will be discussing the topic of the Road to Mass adoption bridging nfts to web 2 audiences Eric Troutman thank you so about a year ago me and a bunch of other people stood on a stage down the street and we talked about how the five-year goal for the near ecosystem is to bring in a billion people at this point we we have four years left to go and we've made some progress but we have a long way to go um so what I want to talk about today we've spent a lot of time talking about technology which makes sense given that this is a core technology but I want to kind of pop up a little bit and think a little bit more about who is actually going to be using this technology and look at things a little bit more from the user perspective so for debate we don't have a lot of time but I want to give a little bit of a high level overview of of what is the the landscape that gets us to Consumer adoption what are the components that we need to produce and what are the things that we should probably be innovating in that we may or may not be doing right now um so the first thing I want to communicate is that mass adoption is a growth problem which I think is pretty obvious but um growth growth is a word that comes up a lot in web 2 but we don't actually talk about it a whole lot in web 3 in quite the same way so as I mentioned we had a goal but what this takes is you have to onboard a lot of users and it's more than just onboarding users you actually have to retain users as well and it's really easy to draw an exponential chart and and say oh look what Facebook did look what Dropbox did and we'll do it too but this takes a lot of work there are a lot of details that you need to get right if we want to make this happen and so I think my key point is that macro adoption is actually a series of micro level battles and those micro level battles occur in the funnels and so everyone is seeing the user funnel your funnel might vary but basically the point of the funnel as you bring a user through your product you obviously have to start with acquisition but then there's an onboarding stage you have to figure out how do you engage the users how do you retain the users and ultimately hopefully you can get a referral back up to the top so they're referring their friends and they're bringing in new people um the problem is that every single stage of that funnel where you lose users has a multiplier effect and you can't actually retain users we can't get to a billion users if any of the stages of that funnel across the ecosystem are leaky and right now we have a lot of problems luckily web3 has a few advantages and nfts is actually one of the one of the coolest web 3 Primitives and it's one that I don't think is going anywhere because in a lot of ways it's actually kind of the glue that holds together every stage of the funnel you can use nfts for everything from acquiring new users for pfp projects nfts are basically you know the kind of the main event it's what people go out of their way to capture but in a lot of other use cases nfts are kind of sidecars they're they're companion packs that you get alongside say purchasing a ticket to an event but the cool thing about an nft is that it the reason why it's useful is it provides a future utility it provides it's sort of a container that has potential and potential energy and at some point down the road someone else can add utility to that nft or the sponsoring project can add utility to that nft and that's that makes it much more attractive for the users and so if you kind of look at every stage of that funnel nfts kind of show up at each of those stages and they're useful to help bring the users through that funnel um but one of the common misconceptions and it's one that we've we've gotten into a lot in crypto is that acquisition is not the same thing as growth growth is sort of a full round trip cycle acquisition is just one stage of the funnel we've all seen Ponzi mechanics it's one of the things that's worked great so far in crypto at least in terms of top line numbers right um it's it's effectively sacrificing everything from the retention side to create some sort of feedback loop where everybody gets Rich it's free beer free money and it's worked out it worked out in very interesting ways in defy and I don't want to hate on it entirely because I think it's actually it does it's it's one of the most powerful forces for bringing in new users and it actually convinces though it's so powerful that it makes the users go through so much pain and suffering in the onboarding stages because the Hook is so strong for for for getting them in there because they're all they all believe that they're gonna they're all gonna make some money on this um but in the end of the day it's actually Sugar High growth because as we've seen again and again and again you get these exponential curves up and what goes up comes right back down and in the end it's not actually sustainable growth so in a lot of ways it's much more like a sugar high and the people who come in through Ponzi mechanics generally aren't in it for the right reasons you don't build strong communities and the projects aren't creating this sustainable growth um fundamentally growth is actually a product problem and I think that's that's actually what I'm kind of excited about is that in previous iterations in previous years we've spoken mostly about technology and it's a lot of fun to be able to talk about product more and more um and and so a much more sustainable look at growth comes at its core from having good products and so the ideal the ideal product is actually a product that has has a full good user experience through and through and then there's and then there's a referral loop on the back end of that it's very simple it's a very simple idea it's extremely hard to execute because in order to get this right you have to you have to get a user to come in you have to give them immediate value and then you have to convince them that it's so worthwhile that they're going to get some sort of future value or some sort of social reputational value through bringing their Network into the same product that they're willing to go out of their way to do that and that's really hard and there and again like for every step that you make the user go through you're losing people you're losing I mean if the funnel is leaky you're not going to accomplish this and there's no way you're going to get a true viral growth um so in a lot of ways if we can unlock viral growth that's that's almost the holy grail for for proving that we've we're actually doing something right um the problem is that onboarding is awful onboarding is is the Bugaboo of the entire blockchain ecosystem it's definitely the weak point that we all have everyone here has probably had the experience of either yourself or trying to walk through someone you know through the process of trying to use a new application and it's difficult it's painful people don't understand what's going on in the end of the day we all have to acknowledge of course that web 2 people just don't have time or patience for this there's no way we're going to get to mass adoption if we if we make them go through the same stuff that we have but the good side is on the on the bottom end of the funnel blockchain in web 3 it has a lot to offer on that retention side that has a lot to offer for long-term engagement and that gets back to that idea of nfts as being sort of long-term value holding utility engines um because and it's kind of that you get back to like why are we using blockchain at all and part of that is you could it allows you to build these permission lists value Stacks where other people can create value for your users just because they're holding your nfts I mean that's really cool but we have to get people to that point um so I guess what I want to run through quickly here is is like what what does it take like what do we need as an ecosystem in order to start to unlock some of these things um and so I think basically you need incentives you need components and you need the right ux the incentives is not something I'm going to spend a lot of time on because that's going to vary depending on the product um so really in a lot of ways that's an entrepreneur's problem it's figure out what are the incentives that make your products something people want but components the components that we need are essentially like the shared infrastructure that allows us to even build experiences that people can use and that's that's basically about unlocking Builders so that they can actually create good experiences and then ux is about unlocking the growth so that users can actually use those experiences which is a little bit different it's subtly different so to start with components from my perspective we'll know that we're successful as an ecosystem in our components when a hacker can drop into a hackathon and by the end of the weekend they will have mashed up a bunch of stuff dropped in a bunch of code Snippets and they have an effectively a production app by the end of a weekend and this this sort of takes you back to the old API days right remember when twilio was out and stripe and all these other things and suddenly every hackathon it went from it went from struggling with devops to like now hackers are actually building real applications by the end of the weekend I mean this is maybe 10 years ago and then so from my perspective like that's where we need to be if we're going to be successful competing with web 2 uh and then sort of building alongside web too to get where we want to go so there's no way you can read this slide but but the point is is sort of laying out all the little pieces all the little components along the way and this will be available online I'll I'll be putting this up on Twitter and in a blog post but if you look kind of from the top left to the bottom right it's basically that as a user travels through through an application they end up touching a whole bunch of these different components so on the top left you're going to see things like nft minting and claiming and distribution and then they get the user comes in and they onboard and then we need to figure out how do we create them accounts are we creating a semi-custodial accounts how do we get them to use those accounts for a single sign-on and then as we get deeper you get back to the back end of more less on the marketing side and more on the Community Management and engagement side and you get things like Dows and and token getting access and things like that um and the point is that when we talk to when I talk to Apple uh apps that are in teams that are building across the ecosystem everyone has some sort of pathway through each of these components that that constructs their app right so like if you're a pfp project you need to make sure that you get nfts in the hands of your users so that means they need to either buy those nfts on a primary Market they need to buy them on a secondary Marketplace you need to get them in your account somehow you need to get you need to make sure that they have access gating for some sort of community and then on the back end maybe that Community is run by a dow maybe it's not same thing fan loyalty it's a very different type of use case it's more of a web 2 crossover use case because obviously this already exists in web 2 and but you have kind of the same principles you want to get nfts minted alongside something that the the fans may or may not already have you want to make sure that they can claim those nfts these are more web 2 people so ideally you're creating them some sort of semi-custodial in your account um and then down in the bottom you want to make sure that as they take social actions sharing something that adds value to the fan loyalty perspective that that's being recorded and that that then sort of feeds back into adding value to the nfts that they've already had and then finally you get to some some much bigger use cases and it uses pretty much everything so if you look at um like there's an application on near that that is building essentially for the the movie industry uh sort of a crowdfunding platform where people can can buy in they get access to a dow it's an nft that unlocks access to a dow which gives them access to Creator rights over time and and like this this this takes everything like that application like literally needs every single piece of the stack in order to be successful the problem is we don't have all of these and so Builders across the ecosystem right now are basically Reinventing the wheel left and right um so so it did kind of a a color-coded heat map of of all the different pieces of this and kind of where we are um and some of them we have the nft minting and and claiming that's something that we do at Satori but as you go down in the back end there we have a lot of missing holes there are a lot of things where some teams have created useful tools but maybe they don't have good ux maybe they don't have documentation maybe they have an open sourced it and then way down at the bottom there are some things that we just don't even have in terms of like ways ways to contact people who have nfts actually just just two days ago I think uh Eugene and Vadim put out a messaging protocol prototype for for contacting nfts nft holders but fundamentally it's still an extremely difficult problem to solve but or rather it's a problem that that hasn't been solved yet and I think one of my core one of my core messages here is that a lot of this isn't necessarily blocked by the technology it's just blocked by we need people to build it and each of these each of these squares effectively is a business and you know sometimes it's it's better as a library sometimes it's an SDK sometimes it's it's supported by a SAS style business and maybe all the way at the top there's a no code tool I mean maybe maybe there's a no code tool that actually pulls together a whole bunch of these components um but effectively like we're missing big pieces of that but another thing that's that's worth highlighting is that not everything is about building components we also need to fix our ux and ux is is not something that requires deep development or deep research is something that oftentimes just requires us to think differently um and I guess step out of ourselves from a web 3 context so if you look at onboarding someone going back to that problem of what does it feel like to onboard your friend the the typical way of doing this right now and I'm very grateful for all the wallets that are built across the ecosystem but my hope is I don't want my friends to even have to touch a wallet if they if they if they're trying to come on but right now you go to a website and then you get bumped off to a third party website and the user experience is very broken um we're moving into a world where things are more semi-custodial which is which is a much much better Improvement which is essentially the application essentially builds a wallet for the user without them really knowing on the on on their behalf and there's some sort of shared key ownership and then they can hand off that wallet to the users after after the user is finally ready to receive it it's a much better experience but it still doesn't solve the the core problem if you think about what does a user actually want user doesn't care about wallets as as we know they don't care about anything web 2 web 3 related they just want whatever it is the value that you're trying to give to them and so I think what we need to think about is like the wallet is effectively a paywall it's the same amount of pain and suffering as you go through in a web 2 app when you hit the paywall and so if we start to embed that thinking then it starts to be oh man like how do we how do we work around the idea of like most of our users shouldn't even have to touch that paywall at all um and so what we really need to do is is make sure that the only people who hit that paywall are the ones who who are exceptionally motivated and are being given exceptional value and everyone else should basically have a freemium a freemium experience and so one of the things I wanted to communicate a little bit is that oftentimes we talk about the spectrum between custodial and non-custodial as as being it um but that's not entirely true there's a lot of things that you can do when you start breaking out of playing with the technology at all and you start faking things this is sort of the old man behind the curtain approach which is that that even Beyond custody creating accounts on behalf of users and things like that like what if we didn't even give them the nft in the first place what if we didn't even create an account for them in the first place what if we faked the entire experience until the very last possible moment and and obviously and the pushback on that is like well hold on why are we even having a blockchain If all we're going to do is just fake fake the entire experience and and put it in a web 2 database and you obviously have to deal with some security implications but this comes back to that whole idea which is like if we fundamentally believe that a blockchain is actually creating value long term it is in fact valuable for users long term to hold these nfts then we have to put our faith in that and so it's okay I think to fake a lot of these things on the front end as long as we've given the user enough value eventually that they're going to want their web free account they're going to want the nft they're going to want whatever it is that we're offering them but until then like let's I would actually love to see people experimenting more with faking everything possible we've I have seen a lot of experiments where where only web 2 users have been targeted they've never been communicated every anything to do with web free except the word nft and it was actually very successful a lot of users join this a lot of users shared a lot of users got involved and there were no wallets at all so so clearly there are things here that users want and clearly they're being blocked whenever we actually step in front of them and say hold on this is we've got a paywall here you have to set up a wallet you have to do all this stuff so I would love to see more of these experiments with how much can we fake until we get to the point where it's worth creating wallets for users the cool thing is like we're obviously here at nircon and and this is the right technology to be able to do all this stuff because not only is it about scalability and cost but the account model makes it very very easy to do permissioning uh you know whether it's permissioning individual keys whether it's swapping accounts securely and things like that so like out of the box if there's going to be a blockchain that when you're done faking it it's time to swap in that blockchain and make sure that that the user has what they need like this is the right one so that so I am very excited about that um we do I just think there's a lot of work that we can do on the ux side before that point um and so just a quick quick note about Satori I mentioned it it's uh so satori's mission is actually very simple similar to the near Mission which is why we've we've actually run into so many of these problems um because what we're trying to do is to bring in the next billion people and to help grow and engage audiences so we tend to exist up on the on the marketing end of that of that funnel but when we talk to when we talk to potential applications who might Implement our API oftentimes they're they're one of two things happen like either they say hold on like why why should I use an like yes I want to use an nft but like how do I do that like how do I make this valuable to users or on the other side they say oh great you solved like 10 of the problems that I have but I'm but my Dev team has to build out the other 90 because we don't have components in place so my hope here today is to highlight that other 90 and say please Builders come in and and and fill in those components because each of those components is another business and I would love to be able to work with all those businesses and and say like yes you should use Satori here but you should also use these other six products and then match them up in into a into a full app and then on the other side that frees us up to to run more experiments and and act more like a growth lab to start showing the value of nfts because again so much of this is about like if we're going to prove growth if we're going to prove uh like a long-term adoption we we can't be spending so much time in the infrastructure we have to be talking we have to be spending more time on the top end looking at users talking to users and trying to get users to come in and trying to collapse the steps and trying to to make sure that we can create loops and Barrel hooks because again that's really the only way that we're actually going to hit an exponential growth curve on any of this stuff so so in terms of specific calls to action I mentioned incentives is really kind of the entrepreneur's problem but for the components again each of the components I highlighted are basically individual businesses so you you can move this from a hackathon project that that creates an open source library to you know probably in in a month you can you can get a micro Grant turn that into a a small SDK get a round of funding and suddenly you have yourself a business like I would love to see more of that across the ecosystem and so please go go to the foundation get grants do whatever you can to put those components together it's not blocked by technology it's blocked just by Builders and then on the ux side this is about hackers and product people growth hackers really just TR break at break out of the mental model break out of the mental box of it's a it's a spectrum where we always have to touch the chain to like let's fake more stuff let's run more crazy growth experiments that don't touch the chain until the last minute and see if that's actually a better more viable and more sustainable funnel for bringing users in who then will be much more long-term engaged when we do finally bring them into the fold with with a real near account with real nfts so once we unblock all of this once we unblock the builders to make things faster once we unblock onboarding to make users go through smoother then I think we can actually unlock the growth that we're all here and all excited to take part in and maybe in the next four years we will in fact be able to get to a billion users thanks awesome speech Eric and by the way make sure while you're here you check out proof of memories which is satori's new uh nft concept debuted here at nearcon we're now going to break for 15 minutes make sure you check out the ecosystem Partners if you haven't already grab some awesome food and we'll see you back here in 15 minutes hello everyone Welcome to the shade stage next topic today is an absolute favorite of mine it's gaming gaming in the web 360 in the web 3 space so young June will be moderating this one it's called onboarding the next generation of web 3 gamers all right well I mean I'm also a huge fan of gaming um I think you know especially as we're thinking about Mass adoption I think gaming is a easy win you know it's an easy win it's an easy way of kind of you know providing a Gateway for the next you know like batch of users and so I'm really excited to be moderating this talk today and so I'd like to bring up to the stage um let's so we have Sasha from Human Guild and Hugo from play Ember okay all right round of applause all right so you know as I was alluding I think there is such a huge opportunity with gaming in the web 3 space I think we're still really early I mean I think that phrase is used across the board right yeah and we are very early but I think with gaming it's even more so right um it's such a complicated and kind of involved process of building a game and so um you know I guess I wanted to kind of open it up by asking you both um what do you feel like is the current experience for users as well as kind of like from the developer side what do you think the experience is like building games in web 3. sure sure so from a plan but we're a mobile game studio and so we used to kind of mobile game development um so for us at the moment web3 game development is a is a lot more difficult than usual mobile game development you kind of don't need to deal with any interoperability or game tokenomics and so actually it's quite easy to ship a mobile game and we've kind of or for the last nine months we've kind of worked on the the web 3 side which has been a real learning curve and I think a lot of mobile game studios are trying to do the same but I think the more and more people people learn um yeah it's kind of getting easier in the infrastructure's building up and making it easier what about you Sasha yeah I agree that it's very challenging to build blockchain game uh it comes with trade-offs it takes a particular mindset for people to embark on something like this I think building games in web 2 space a lot of things I figured out be it for PC or web or steam or mobile but also the downside of building in web 2 Gaming is extremely competitive so even though things are figured out there are best practices established over the course of decade or two uh it's very very competitive and so the web 3 is kind of like opposite of that it's like nothing is figured out there are additional complexities that Hugo mentioned um you're gonna need to build a fun game still that's the most important thing but you also need to create open economy but you also need to make sure those two things balance uh economic game not gonna become the main game it's still the focus is in the game you need to deal with legal you need to figure out how to go to market which is incrementally and with the community which is different from web to space it's a collab to figure out no best practices established for none of this things but another another hand it's also not competitive meaning that if you launch something of value likely you'll see a lot of people that care on day one and because we have a near ecosystem we have a lot of near wallets like eagerly waiting for applications to launch generally but also games to launch people like really waiting for launches yeah amazing so I actually got a little ahead of myself I wanted to give you both an opportunity to kind of introduce yourselves as well as kind of talk about what you do and what's bringing you to nearcon so uh Hugo if you would like to start yeah cool so I'm uh Hugo CEO at play Amber so yeah we're a mobile game studio um we have about uh eight million monthly active users across Apple and Google play um and we've kind of worked with Publishers in the mobile game space and our our games are you categorize them like hyper casual to hybrid casual probably so games with really low CPI cost per install um but they scale quite easily so we kind of get big numbers and that's what we want to bring to near we want to take those web 2 players and we've kind of built a an infrastructure a Unity SDK which is what most mobile games are built on um and basically a an add-on so you add into the game it takes about an hour so reduces a lot of the complexities that I kind of went through earlier and let's game studios just concentrate on making games um yeah so that that's where we hope to kind of Mass on board a lot of people to near amazing and Sasha yeah um my path to to Nero was through France so I actually started working in Nero on almost the day one of near existence in August of 2018 I used to work in a database company was one of the co-founders of near one thing led to another uh joined it very early mainly in the beginning I was talking to the market so we had mostly developers building the blockchain it took in 2019 alone we rebuilt blockchain three times and we only have had two people on a business side Eric and myself I was focusing to talk into the market that helped quite a bit near refocused on usability away from just scalability through feedback from blockchain gaming Studios actually uh and then fast forward to today so I started human guilt last year it's one of the spin-offs from New York System a lot of people generally speaking from early near team uh broke into small kind of like startups or different uh pieces of deca system last year were the first ones so we roughly in summer time of last year we started focusing more and more on gaming so we were more generally focusing on non-d5 applications so near all kinds of Creator economy applications but we saw organic interest in gaming on your ecosystem last year in Paris in one of the nft marketplaces so near we saw last summer roughly 12 or so creators who didn't have game development skills but they really wanted to build something like a game they were building like very simple card games essentially and we wanted to double click on that we thought that there is something there there's organic interest in this we went to game gems game jumps are kind of like something similar to hackathons but people build games instead of innocent and so through working in game jams we attracted a lot of independent game developers to New York a system then we did some YouTube cross promotions and slowly started started getting more and more uh Studios gaming Studios not just independent game developers but also game studios interested in building games on year and so now network was 50 or so games on here of different stages of development you can see some of them in a gaming arcade uh we have 16 or so Games available to try out in a gaming arcade that's for people who like interested in trying them out yeah awesome thank you for that yeah so I mean you both have kind of alluded to like the platforms that games are built on and obviously mobile is very hot in what three right now um but obviously gaming on mobile is a very different experience um than you know maybe using like you know like checking your portfolio on mobile versus desktop right like I feel like the entire kind of the way you interact with the game is different um but I guess my question to you both would be do you think that mobile is key for gaming and um I guess thinking about kind of what you were mentioning Sasha like the kind of experience between mobile PC and web both from a developer and users perspective um what would you say is kind of like something that maybe we should even prioritize like what do you think is a maybe um like low hanging fruit that we can kind of tackle first yeah um I would say mobile is very important channel for uh for game developers to consider a year ago uh majority of people were too afraid to try mobile they were building things for web it's still it's still a lot of uncertainty in terms of how to deal with Google how to deal with Apple uh like crypto industry will have to kind of together collectively figure it out together with those to uh two entities that control majority of the mobile distribution but I think mobile is where a lot of gamers are obviously it's not just mobile of course I play some console games it's not to say it's less challenging figuring out how to get a crypto game launched on Sony Playstation or Xbox is still kind of also very much open open question it and nobody has done it but I think mobile represents this really big distribution opportunity yeah I think it's a question of the end user as well so I think um kind of crypto or really hardcore gamers probably look at mobile games as they're not really games so they would be more open to um to kind of web3 desktop and I think that's probably where you'll have longer session times and everything like that um but yeah in terms of mass Market I think mobile is yeah certainly the lowest hanging fruit awesome um I guess you know as we're kind of talking about you know the users and kind of onboarding this next batch right of Gamers where do you think these users are are going to come from like where do you think these gamers are gonna come from do you think web2 natives are gonna move over or do you think they're web3 folks who are just going to get into gaming like I'd love to hear both of your thoughts I think that's a really um kind of important question or a hard one to answer so I think uh decentralization is great but it makes distribution so hard so I suppose we we've kind of cheating in a way in that we're getting our users through Apple and Google and then kind of converting them from there to web3 um we're kind of dabbling with the idea of basically like a treasure hunt or loot boxes within our game so say a pfp collection say oh we want to put uh 20 asacs into your game and we drop them across all our games and then we think lots of web 3 users would actually come into like a web 3 mobile game to play the game and search for these pfps so I think I think it can work both ways kind of web to to web3 and web3 to web 2.5 maybe um but yeah cool yeah I I agree it will be a little bit of both I think when it comes to web 3 gaming it's still extremely early the biggest uh blockchain games today they have like 200 000 wallets which is active Wallets on a monthly basis I think which is good uh but it's still like looking at the traditional gaming it's in millions hundreds of millions some some games even probably have more than that so I think um I think we cannot rely on web3 Gamers alone just because how small the market it is it's also fragmented it's kind of split across different chains and we don't have like really good abstraction layer yet or interoperability existence so I think it's a little bit of both but I agree with Hugo as well it's really good idea to think about nft communities for example who are looking for providing utility for for their communities and building games or virtual worlds for those is a really good natural step and then another side web 2 Gaming Studios coming into website you should be doing a lot of nft drops should be doing web 3 native kind of go to market awesome um so we have a few minutes left um I did want to ask obviously you know for all the the builders who are interested in getting into gaming in web3 um do you have any advice as they kind of consider you know if they want to like get involved um ways you know in which maybe that transition can be easier um I would love to hear what you might say to them yeah um I'd say probably just get started kind of get stuck in because it's um uh in web 3 more than any uh any other thing I've done kind of over my career it changes like weekly um so I think you just need to get started kind of get get your head down um and probably not be too precious to kind of even though you've done something and it's really cool for the last month or two months actually if if now that's not the way to go you kind of need to Pivot and just kind of take that you're learning all the time yeah yeah I think uh important pieces are in terms of where to get started so one is figuring out funding is extremely challenging like navigating fundraising in gaming is challenging to begin with but in the current market conditions is is hard so that that piece is like needs to be at some point figured out because gaming is very Capital intensive I'm not saying like there are like perfect answers for this but like figuring out what's your funding pass for like multiple years is important one to focus on and in other pieces like money is probably secondary to everything else what I mentioned how to go to market how to build economy and things like that is a lot more important for Success they are what we do at human Guild we're trying to get Founders to help other Founders so essentially build collaborative community that doesn't think of themselves as competitors that thinks of themselves more as there is a lot to figure out we need to all figure it out so we can speed up the amount of figuring this out by talking to each other it was similar to how near itself was built in the beginning in a very collaborative approach so there is like whiteboard series that near did on YouTube by talking to a lot of other layer ones and layer twos and there was a lot of ideas and cross collaboration born out of it for example near borrowed some ideas from polkadot ethereum 2 borrowed some ideas from from near back then and so similar approach we're trying to cultivate with Founders if you figure it out like sustainable economy how to build it do not treat it as a secret sauce talk to others and can like help each other all right awesome so we're down to the last minute here I'd like to hear from both of you in 30 seconds each what are you most excited about like what excites you when you wake up in the morning you're like yes this is something that I'm ready to see um well we're really excited to bring blockchain Tech into into Mobile gaming and kind of really uh get the perfect mix of web 2 web 2 kind of usability and ease of onboarding um and web3 interoperability ownership and everything like that awesome yeah for me it's uh what motivates me is Founders succeeding like other creators succeeding in a space I think there is a blurry line between who is Creator and founder it's like uh but I think seeing those people successful over time is like what motivates me awesome so obviously you know a huge thanks to both of you for your time and your thoughts today um obviously gaming it's hot um if you guys have any questions obviously Hugo and Sasha are available to kind of take your questions at the end um but yeah thank you both so much thank you thank you so much Hugo Sasha ayung everybody here if you're an avid gamer do check out the gaming section The Gamers lounge and test some of our great projects on near ecosystem hi friends we're here to talk about interoperability excellent um more specifically in the context of polka dot and near um I'm Ashley Tyson I'm with hypersphere I'm a co-founder of web3 foundation so I helped launch polka dot and then I worked with near Foundation to help launch near and now I run a VC fund called hypersphere we've invested in axlr and this is Jason from axillar and Sheldon from octopus Network and we're going to talk a little bit about keeping your friends near um but maybe we can start by the both of you kind of giving introductions to your projects and what you guys are working on yeah absolutely so I'm Jason I lead BDT here at auxiler um you know actually on a very high level is a blockchain that connects other blockchains uh actually differentiates itself is that we're more than a bridge we're able to move any payload call Smart contracts or trust any chains and because of that we believe we enable A Whole New World of possibility you can build now true Crossing applications like Crossing swaps cross-chain lending on top of axler's decentralized and permissionless infrastructure cool and Sheldon tell us about octopus so octopus network is kind of like a hybrid layer zero it's a bit of an unusual play to say hey we like the relay chain we like that secondary execution environment but also liquidity as necessary that's how I usually compare polka dot Cosmos we're fusing that Solution on near to use near as a single execution environment for substrate chains same format as polka dot but of course they need more than that they need features they need things that work for their sovereignty so they have the ability to bring up their own Bridges which we're going to be launching earlier this sorry later this year we're deploying an IBC relayer palette and library that people will use to talk to other ecosystems that doesn't have to just be Cosmos okay so we should talk about those bridges in just a minute because when I was told that we were talking about Building Bridges between me and polka dot I was just like do we have did I miss the bridge like between polka dot and near so um there aren't any that currently exist I guess maybe we're talking figurative Bridge Building at this moment in time um so maybe share a little bit more about kind of like what that interoperability looks like um from the octopus perspective sure I mean we've talked to axlr and composable and a bunch of other organizations who have like similar missions and we think what they're doing is incredibly important the way that axelr does this is also important The Proposal from a composable that's on near governance Forum I was so glad to see ilya's response from that because that's taking on the encryption types that we need to make it easier to communicate between the two environments right but the um the the side of it that is basically us paying homage to polka dot is that the substrate change that we help launch they are specifically positioned to be able to move on to polka dot it's not that they actually Bridge there it's that they are their own independent entities we're not asking them to be the glue between near and polka dot we're asking them to enjoy the benefits of near and if they can grow up as substrate chains mature to the level that polka dot needs you know you have to be a mature entity before you go for that parachain auction slot so then in some way like do you consider it almost like a breeding grounds I don't want to I don't want to put words in your mouth in that way but that's how you like your it feels like you're describing we call it the bottom of the substrate Market the top of the substrate Market is definitely polka dot the best products go there we we understand that the most mature complete you know feature sweet things they go to polka dot and that makes sense but they need a place to start and the mentality before octopus Network those chains had to start with really long test Nets the example I usually give is math I love math wallet what those guys are doing is great they had to live on a production test net for more than a year you shouldn't have to do that that's basically our model to give them a chance to kind of start at an MVP and grow up okay cool and then maybe you can talk a little bit from the axillar perspective any current upper interoperability or planned interoperability between polkadot and near yeah absolutely you know I think before we go into the specifics of how that actually works from an actual perspective I would just say from axler's point of view the future is going to be all completely interconnected right and you know as a user you won't really care whether this application is on polka dot or on octopus or anywhere else you just have a direct relationship with the application you'll have a very simple user experience you click one or two button and it just works right and how axler is doing to enable that is we are a blockchain that connects to these other blockchains ecosystems in a many-to-many connectivity so specifically with how we're connecting polka dot to near is right now we have a direct integration to Moonbeam on the axler network what that means is we're able to pass messages call Smart contracts from any of the other 23 chains we're connected to which also includes Cosmo IBC chain two Moonbeam and then Moonbeam via xcm is able to communicate to the other para chains so today how we're able to work with some of the bigger paratrade like engine is they first pass a message via xcm to Moonbeam and then Viva axillary pass message to other evm and Cosmos chains and that's part of moonbeam's overall cross-chain strategy as well but you know what's really exciting for us is now we're going to have an alternative for these polkadot ecosystem projects to directly connect with near and that's because centrifuge a very prominent project in polkadot has offered to help push the push it forward in the ecosystem and build a pallet for this for an actual palette in the substrate system so within the next few months when this palette is complete any substrate based chains will be able to integrate this palette and have a direct connectivity from the parachain right into axillary and then you can think of axler as this Hub in the middle right once you're able to pass messages to axler we can then pass that message to Aurora and through Aurora's new two-way contract calls directly move it to near and I do think that sounds excellent we've talked to the XLR team a number of times and we do appreciate the design the octopus model is to not exist in the middle it doesn't mean that it's wrong that XLR does that XLR does that in an incredibly fair and reasonable way our model is just that trustless Bridges should be priority which means we're asking people to focus more on Direct connections without a third party it doesn't mean that XLR is a bad word being that third party you guys are doing a great job it just means that the the model that we're pushing forward is for direct integration between two different environments of course I would say Sheldon like totally hear you and but you know you look at the bridging space today right we think the far bigger problems that most bridges and intrawability solutions today are very centralized they're almost like a centralized exchange experience ran by multi-cigs versus axillary is the only one that's truly fully decentralized and we've recently launched quadratic voting which actually further decentralized the network even more so that we actually spread out the voting power a little bit more fairly our DNA has always been about 6 security and we think the best way to achieve that is through decentralization sure so at the moment near is the only execution environment that's adjacent that IBC solution that we're developing we've proven it out it can work it is not used in production yet we haven't made it easy the validation is not complete yet that means that in prod today that is genuinely the way that those chains interact is by using near as the simultaneous environment but IBC from Cosmos as the lightweight alternative to incorporating a third party because even if you you don't mind the the trust involved a third party needs to be paid you know there needs to be someone footing the bill right so when there isn't a third party to pay for that those two smaller organizations or younger chains they have a much lower threshold to figure out how they can interact you know when they have an interaction and they're looking at like a margin of cost from another piece of infrastructure it makes sense that it would be harder to rise above that cost when it's direct between chains you're just paying gas on both sides so two different approaches um I'm curious to get a sense of the audience who here um like what's everyone's background if you're a developer raise your hands if you're more of like a user right maybe not like on the building side raise your hands okay so about 50 50. um which is kind of interesting right because like right now thinking about interoperability from either perspective it's just pain in the ass there's like nothing worse than like the current infrastructure that we have and I think like my my perspective and I think all of our perspectives on stage is that like it's not interoperability just between kind of like one ecosystem it has to cross ecosystems um and right now like we're having um you know we've we've all seen some exploits that have been notable um in the past couple of months so The Nomad exploit which I think heavily affected the polka dot ecosystem um I think we're in a good stable place there but they're not without their you know real risks so I'd love the two of you to chat a little bit about your perspectives um on that and how we can create better security around interoperability because you shouldn't have to risk your assets in order to be able to like move things across chains so love your thoughts yeah I mean I can start I couldn't agree more actually I think today the state of bridging or interoperability is just not ideal right we have so far to go still and I think about like security at axillary we really see security as two things right first a more secure design in the first place something that doesn't have to have you know be centralized or have these assumptions that you really have to like hold close for it to work out and then the second thing is having all kinds of contingency or safety measures so that so when something does go wrong you're able to at least cap the loss or have some kind of like action plan to like mitigate the damage I think there is no design that's perfectly secure so we always have to plan for the worst and you know at axler as I mentioned earlier from a pure design perspective right our team has spent over the last two years building out a decentralized interoperative solution where one of the only ones that's a blockchain that are able to connect other blockchains and the reason why we built it like that is because proof of stake blockchains have been around for a long time their security assumptions are well documented we know how how it works it's how it doesn't work and that's why we think it's been battle tested and at the same time when we look at the safety measures accidents put in place we have something called rate limits that caps amount of asset transfer within a time interval so if axler were to be exploited you could add essentially a stop loss on the application Level of what the maximum damage would be and of course that's not enough right just losing a little bit of money is still losing money so in conjunction to that we set up an insurance fund that's five percent of our total token Supply and given that we did our last round at a billion dollars that's a substantial amount of money set aside to cover that loss in case an emergency does happen and we also do various other things like rotating validator keys so malicious after can't be accumulating to use keys and attack the network and it's like things like this that we really think about on a daily basis because security is just absolutely Paramount here yeah speaking of something like that we got please let me know um you know we've seen that being a real need in in the space but Sheldon yeah maybe you can talk a little bit about that sure my answer is much shorter and I basically expressed it already it's that we don't want this liability I think that approaching that liability with a sane angle of hey we need to you know restrict these things provide contingencies it makes a lot of sense and the way that axelr does it has my respect hands down but the model that we want to introduce for smaller entities is just trustless it is the idea that the only other person that you need to interact with is someone who you already trust because you've already made a business arrangement with them to enable your two products to communicate so I think that the components that XLR is focused on are the right thing I didn't know about the insurance fund that's awesome I'll have to look into that a little bit but the model that we're looking at isn't designed for you know someone who's prepared to really manage that at a higher level at a higher stage of growth sure it doesn't make sense to maintain 30 like clients to communicate with all the other blocks chains but that's why IBC is our focus and if that means taking on an IBC pallet and an xcmp palette at the same time in the future I think that's not out of the question it's just a matter of refining that to the point where it makes sense absolutely I mean we love IBC at Oxford right that's why we built our blockchain using Cosmos SDK and what really assault we're trying to solve for is how do we have a near IPC like experience for the non-ibc chains as well yeah and I thought it was really interesting when I saw it was injective because that's also another party we've been talking to about bringing it into prod from Astor so I I almost uh asked us to like say something publicly because hey we talked to you guys we know you guys were working on this we're working on a similar product that works in a different way right you know in the sense of user experience this should not be different but we're still in the era that we're kind of planning the way these things are going to work and sort of structuring how that should look for a user long term they're they shouldn't care they shouldn't know right but on the flip side of that there's that person who's developing a small product I don't want to set a capital barrier for projects to be able to you know use bridges in a productive manner so I'm not saying that axelr does that necessarily but the the necessary cost that comes from a third party is just part of the reason why we're structuring in that more lightweight manner makes sense um we've got two minutes left so I wanted to talk a little bit about road maps because right now like there really isn't interoperability between me and polkadot and I'm chomping at the bit when's it gonna like happen um so if you guys can share a little bit um obviously everything always is kind of like a amorphous date but a little bit more about your road maps for kind of rolling out IBC and then that functionality and then with axelr like when we can expect to like actually be able to use this so I'll keep it relatively short our IBC product is in its final steps of validation and there's two pull requests left on the relayer so we're launching that by end of the year I'll be obligated to give a couple of workshops on it to make sure it's sort of easy to use I've already got a couple of third-party validators pulling it up and trying it so the IBC stuff is relatively short throw we're going to be there soon nft bridging I'm doing a test net demo tomorrow at the booth so mint and burn is not the most exciting thing in the world but making it trustworthy is worthwhile at a small scale you know transferring an ape across chains is not something that we're going to see for quite a while because people are obsessed with this one pfp project but at the same time there needs to be something that makes it possible for these smaller organizations to be able to do their own fractionalization to be able to make nfts move them to near or move nfts from near to another chain and back so XLR is going to cover a much larger footprint in that regard when you all get there but because of the way we're doing this sort of like small business oriented deployment it's much easier for us to say hey this is lightweight this makes sense I'm really looking forward to that I'm excited for getting you that in public on testnet yeah I think for us in the short term we're going to use Aurora as a hub and Gateway to near where we're really excited about the two-way message passing that Aurora just announced earlier this afternoon we've been like working closely with that team to make sure that happens as some of you guys might know we already secured partnership with uh spend a derivative platform on here as well as uh ref from last week so we're ready to start building right and the missing piece has always been how do you do two-way message passing from Aurora to near so now that that's ready we're able to start building these like true Crossing applications where you're able to do these cross-chain swaps or cross-chain deposits with just one click and I think in the future as axler has more resources and we fit we you know complete our roadmap on integration and some of the other layer ones what we'll do is we can potentially integrate near natively or if the rumor is true and near does have an IPC connection we'll be able to integrate near like any other Cosmos chain for us to integrate a new evm and IVC chain it only takes around 10 minutes so every week we're continuously adding new IBC chains so if near were to become obvious compatible I think that would be amazing because then we'll be able to have a direct connection to near and we'll be able to do all kinds of cool stuff awesome well hopefully next year we'll be having a very different conversation about the realities of this so sure I appreciate you guys joining us and if you want to chat with axillar or octopus octopus has a boost over in the off to the side that area do that way and then they can find you at the Aurora area we're working yeah I'll be at the Aurora Booth but we also have a cross chain event tomorrow with axler and our summer Partners like Tri Solaris Aurora and Squid so definitely ask me for more information we'd love to have you guys thank you cool thanks everyone thanks Ashley there you go all right so we have a couple of changes in terms of our panelists today um so we have um you know a very distinguished panel of folks here to talk to us about auditing so we have Robert from ottersec we have Giannis from chain security we have yev from hacken and we also have mihao from halborn so welcome to our panelists today all right so you know I feel like throughout the day and just in general we've been talking a lot about vulnerabilities hacks breaches it's kind of inevitable right that it's so kind of top of mind for a lot of people and so I think one thing that is clear is that security is a really tough problem to solve it's it's an inevitability it's something that's bound to happen in terms of you know just having vulnerabilities but how do you solve that just because if you don't catch something the risk is potential you know like actual impact is so severe and so you know obviously Auditors really kind of help our projects as they think about these issues and figuring out hey how can I catch all of my vulnerabilities and so I'm really excited to kind of dig into this with you all and I guess to start it off I'd love to start with Robert and kind of go down the row here what are the typical vulnerabilities that you all are seeing lately and you know obviously I'd like to hear if there's anything kind of specific to near or maybe just across the board what are the big trends you're seeing yeah that's a really good question I think when we do audits we kind of categorize our findings and I'd say two broad categories one would be chain specific vulnerabilities which deal with the underlying nuances of the chain itself and then there's also broader logic class vulnerabilities for example if you have a lending protocol you might have some sort of collateralization issue which would be applicable to any chain regardless of where you build that lending protocol on the other hand near specifically you might have issues with for example State Management because nears State tracking means that you need to pay rent explicitly for storage but unfortunately it's like the way that that happens is by sending near to the contract as opposed to um having like I'd say a more sane model of like the person paying for the transaction paying for it implicitly right so so that creates an issue where you know if you don't properly track state then you might have a potential discrepancy where someone might be able to get more State than they otherwise should I'd say the second you know major class of vulnerability we see on there would be anything to do with asynchronix execution right near is very unique in its execution model whenever you do a cross-contract call it creates your receipt and then that gets sent to another Shard and it's like asynchronous in nature um and I can think of at least one audit where you know I'd say like 75 of the bugs we found were due to disrepancies in how they track state especially across callbacks so yes Robert made the excellent division we also think in these terms so same specific vulnerabilities and vulnerabilities that are related to the business logic so what is really important is to find issues that our clients have missed when they were specifying for example uh the properties that their implementations uh wanted to hold so this is really important another issue that we usually find uh has to do with numerical problems for example decimals are not handled correctly so from the 10 specific vulnerabilities I think Robert covered it really well so it has to do with the storage um stating that it's really important in near and yeah I think that's it and also the the asynchronous execution which to be honest I was expecting it when I was starting with Mir to see more issues related to the Sacramento's execution but yeah for some reason uh the people handled quite well yeah from our experience as well like business logic is a huge and it's like a chain agnostic and definitely having a near specific vulnerabilities just general vulnerabilities and business logic with the most interesting stuff is hidden but yeah just uh General like missing ownership checks uh sign your checks is something that we deal with yeah I guess all our experience are pretty similar and yeah the most things I find are related to the contracts logic and if it's actually performing what it's supposed to be doing and regarding uh near specific things it's uh yeah probably promises and the fact that cross-contract calls are asynchronous which is different uh and unique across the whole chains and I just wanted to add that it's really important and this is something that we find quite often is uh how the failure of these promises is handled oh yeah this is an issue that usually comes up when it comes to promises awesome thank you for that um I guess as we kind of talk about you know near specific um obviously uh I would love to know from your perspective do you feel like there are some is there a certain smart contract languages that are more secure than others that's a tricky question I personally like to think of programming languages as just the tools it's not like one's better and one's worse like all of them are turning complete so you pretty much can code anything in it and so you can have the most secure language and still have vulnerabilities in there but if I had to choose I guess that would be rust because out of the box uh it's the most it it has the the most security features just ready uh ready out of the box but it's not like because you're using grass then you're suddenly secure uh I cannot do this so I guess there are more mature languages and less mature languages and there are also languages that require more verbosity and maybe they expose hey the semantics better for example a rust is more verbose but I guess it doesn't hide you know how the pointers are handled uh compared to solid for example which we usually find that you know sorry programmers uh ignore some of the features of the language maybe because also the developers are not as mature because you know the language is not so well tested or it's not you know it hasn't been for so long I guess kind of you know on that I mean obviously we're you know utilizing JavaScript now with the JavaScript sck that's been around a little bit longer and um you know in terms of if you're referring to you know someone who's a bit or a language that's more established um I mean what are your thoughts on kind of you know opening this whole new door with the JavaScript SDK anyone okay I mean I can comment I guess I'll talk a bit about the previous question too um because I had some thoughts there I think one thing that we we think a lot about as Auditors is how do we make languages structurally safer right I think while it's true um as we mentioned before that you know you can write bugs in any language I think one thing that we care strongly about is how do you make a language in a way such that the default path or the easy path is the safe one because I think if you do it that way if it's like the easiest solution is the safe one then people are going to write safer contracts right and that's something that we care really strongly about we've published or I've written like a number of blog posts you know about this General topic um and I guess I'd also add that there's kind of this distinction between Russ broadly and I'd say also like rust per chain right so for example when you're talking about using rust in near I'd say it's like rust plus whatever the neared buying gen SDK is right near has many specific parts of it which make the rust when you're writing like new your contracts like specific to near as opposed to say Solana right like Solana has extended DSL in the form of anchor which is like a whole different language compared to when you're writing near contracts um I guess going back to the like JavaScript SDK I mean I personally am not a huge fan of that just because I mean I think Russ is a really good language and I like I think Russ is probably better like it has Type safety it's you know a prettier language in general it it like enables many of these features that you like there's a reason why people use rust you know when they're writing memory critical or like safety critical systems um but yeah I'm curious what your thoughts are on that yeah I guess at the end of the day it's important that you can focus on business logic and Building Products rather than doing other stuff which is connected to language and others it's good to have proper documentation proper tools and clear understanding how it works and security from the books which is not everything possible but it's good to have and focus on building rather than thinking about all other problems and language may cause awesome thank you and you know to your point I I do see your uh perspective of yeah Russ is very solid when it comes to security and I'm hoping that you know with this whole like kind of bringing in all of the JavaScript developers like we'll be able to maybe bring in more like knowledge and just people who have more experience and have that perspective right um instead of just maybe people who've been complacent with security all along um I guess you know obviously something that you know if they're builders in the audience or you know something that is very top of mind is it's extremely difficult to get an audit right now um it is very costly there's huge long Waits and obviously as the ecosystems keep growing and projects the number of projects grows exponentially like I would love to kind of ask about how you guys are thinking about scaling your practices and you know obviously as we're really entering this um idea of like audits being a bottleneck like what do you hope to achieve to kind of solve that problem location so scaling at least the way we perceive this concept is quite tricky to get it right especially when it comes to audits because we we don't want to compromise uh the quality of our work so scaling and hiring many Engineers were not were not ready to to take the responsibility they don't they're not knowledgeable enough to audit code uh you know might have results that we don't want so scaling unfortunately is something that we have to live with at least for now or you know until we find a better way to perform what it's more precisely I guess it's more about complex work starting from standards methodologies what we have now in like solidity and evm based chains mostly and having the clear standard what audit is what should be checked and for everyone to do kind of basic checks because for now audit is something that's like perceived in different ways for your different Auditors and we don't have clear standards what should be covered also it's about knowledge sharing as far as we don't have this everyone does what they want and what they think is property I guess this Foundation we should create like standards like tools methodologies uh that's that's already working in web 2 and starting in evm stuff so I guess like knowledge sharing and doing this first it will help to scale but for sure getting audit now especially for like near and other eras teams is not that easy as getting that for evm based chains yeah yeah absolutely um there's no way around it out it's take time they need to take time we need to understand the the project we need to know what it's supposed to be doing and then we need to verify everything that that the client wants us to want us to agree so the only natural way to scale is to have more of us and there is do you think it's possible yeah I well I wish but as we can see we're we're still um uh have have a lot of uh new places to to to uh to to to to hire and um uh and don't know I I honestly think that uh we should be focusing on hiring new people like to maybe accepting like no sharing to to because there's a there is a lot of um Security Experts in web 2 and the only thing um preventing them from joining us here at web3 is that they don't know yet about blockchain how it works and I guess we should change that uh in the first place and then work from that I guess shortage of talents in web 2 is still like huge especially in security we're not talking about uh like web 3 security just think how many projects on the market now and how many auditors yeah I'd actually disagree a little bit I think that there are things that projects can do to make their you know to make it easier to get audited right I mean for for us at least as an auditor it's much easier to read code you understand code that is well documented you know follows good practices has you know same variable names you know if if you put in the time as a project to actually care about security and to write your code in a way that is easy for someone else to understand then I think it's going to be easier for us to perform an audit it'll be faster it'll be cheaper and it'll overall be better for you um so I mean I think you know at least for us we prefer to work with projects that actually do care about security and I think that is definitely something that you can do to you know make the process a little bit less painful right and there is also the thing that we discussed uh which is the audit Readiness so you got a slot to be audited but is your project ready to be audited I don't know what the take of the others here about projects that you know are ready to be audited from your company but they're not ready because they haven't for example specified all the properties that their implementation wants to follow projects come for like really auditing or like working other than just comparing documentation on what they have in real code and it's not only about others because a lot of projects just do this at the end of the year like before releasing not from the scratch when they are planning the architecture and doing all this security stuff before not after they've done everything and they like okay security just like Quick Fix and let's go unfortunately that's the perception on the market for major parts but still it's getting better if comparing to five years ago where the security was like nice feature to have rather than the necessity and I like that now like more Regulators let's say like crypto Regulators requiring that like Venture funds exchanges platforms it's getting more more um demanded but still awesome so I guess you know that's a really good thing into my next question which is I wanted to ask you know for the builders who are you know interested in maybe like getting an audit or even just building a project right at what point should they start thinking about the auto process um I mean I guess to your point like they should just start thinking about it from day Zero um and you know to Robert's Point as well like build your code in a way that is easily auditable but um I mean you know like in Earnest once again it takes a lot of capital to kind of pay for it and it does take a while so um you know from your perspective like at what point should projects start thinking about seriously thinking about getting an audit with the first line of code security is not something you can say that it's done for your project it's basically a continuous process so if you want an audit that's cool that's great you should be audited but if you start thinking about security from the very beginning and then you can maybe uh go to go through this iteratively so maybe you you'll be updated more than once which is also a good idea um and that way you will be able to build with security in mind uh which is always the better approach right they shouldn't developers should make it easy as Robert said for the Auditors you know to do as well as they can that's very important yeah I feel like starting as early as possible is always good right I mean at the very least you can shop around you can talk to multiple other firms and then you can get competitive quotes for your for your project right so at the very least you know if you start earlier right instead of right before the deadline there I think there's a pretty big monetary incentive that you know you'll have a cheaper audit um but yeah I\n\n[NEARpedia: text truncated at storage limit; the source document continues]","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-04T03:59:46.481Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":0,"text":"Welcome to The Nightshade stage thanks for sticking with us the program continues as you may have heard there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=0s"},{"start_seconds":8,"text":"some rain going on outside so we had to delay the start of this track a little bit but here we are glad you're with us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8s"},{"start_seconds":18,"text":"um this is where we're going to have more in-depth discussions uh tactical advice for operators Founders and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=18s"},{"start_seconds":26,"text":"investors and this is why we call it the Nightshade stage and without further Ado I'm going to kick this off by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=26s"},{"start_seconds":33,"text":"introducing our first Speaker magalie McIntyre from Egon Zender she's going to tell us what we learned when crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=33s"},{"start_seconds":41,"text":"imploded thank you hello good morning thanks for braving","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=41s"},{"start_seconds":53,"text":"the elements to be here today can you hear me okay perfect great so my name is magaly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=53s"},{"start_seconds":61,"text":"McIntyre I'm French that's where the accent comes from that's I spelled the game um I'm a leadership advisor so what I do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=61s"},{"start_seconds":69,"text":"is I help build and develop teams for technology companies I've had previous lives I was in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=69s"},{"start_seconds":76,"text":"business school when the internet's bubble exploded um I was investment banking at Lehman","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=76s"},{"start_seconds":83,"text":"Brothers in 2008. then I was a founder and now I'm advising crypto and blockchain businesses on their leadership challenges","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=83s"},{"start_seconds":90,"text":"so clearly I like to be in the heart of the action um Egan Zender has been advising businesses for six 60 years and now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=90s"},{"start_seconds":99,"text":"myself have been working with crypto and blockchain businesses closely for the past six years so when Marik a few weeks ago came to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=99s"},{"start_seconds":108,"text":"see um come to see me and ask me what have you learned this year working closely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=108s"},{"start_seconds":116,"text":"with those crypto and blockchain businesses what are the Leadership Lessons I thought it was a really good question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=116s"},{"start_seconds":124,"text":"and to be honest um we tend to move on from one crisis to the next and think okay this is a crypto winter there's a reason why we call it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=124s"},{"start_seconds":132,"text":"winter because it's a season these two Shall Pass like the rain um Regulators are spooked that's that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=132s"},{"start_seconds":141,"text":"what's happening when you have an innovation cycle there's nothing really new to it um I don't think that's totally true and I think it's definitely worse","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=141s"},{"start_seconds":150,"text":"posing and take 10 minutes today to think what is it that we've learned over the past year and what would you like to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=150s"},{"start_seconds":158,"text":"do what should we probably start doing differently so if there's one thing I've learned working with businesses and a lot of my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=158s"},{"start_seconds":166,"text":"work I do is high growth businesses is that organizations are a function of their leaders and they reflect both","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=166s"},{"start_seconds":175,"text":"their strengths their superpowers and their weaknesses and those two are very very tightly linked because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=175s"},{"start_seconds":183,"text":"when the strengths is overplayed when the superpowered is overplayed it becomes a blind spot and so I thought one is specific to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=183s"},{"start_seconds":192,"text":"crypto blockchain Webster businesses what are what is unique about their leaders well a lot of it is that their leaders are mostly Founders so to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=192s"},{"start_seconds":201,"text":"understand those businesses and how to lead those businesses you need to understand the psychology of founders and so I went to see some of my clients","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=201s"},{"start_seconds":211,"text":"and ask them as Founders what do you think your superpowers are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=211s"},{"start_seconds":217,"text":"in search of their blind spots and there were lots of different answers but a couple of themes came out very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=217s"},{"start_seconds":226,"text":"very clearly and one was creativity they see themselves as creative as the creative","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=226s"},{"start_seconds":234,"text":"brain in the business and um it's fantastic but what we've observed working with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=234s"},{"start_seconds":241,"text":"them is that they are some flip side of this being The Mastermind of creativity that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=241s"},{"start_seconds":249,"text":"everyone needs to be aware of um the first one is that if there's always a new ideas coming up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=249s"},{"start_seconds":259,"text":"it's very very exciting but it's also really hard to execute and to operate when the ball is constantly moving where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=259s"},{"start_seconds":266,"text":"the priorities are changing and suddenly the new ideas take over their priority over the previous ideas of yesterday that is just in the middle of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=266s"},{"start_seconds":273,"text":"execution I don't know if it sounds familiar um the second thing that happens","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=273s"},{"start_seconds":280,"text":"when the founder identifies the creative minds is that no one else does and even if you hire very creative","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=280s"},{"start_seconds":288,"text":"people in your organization they tend to shrink down because it's not their identity it's not their job","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=288s"},{"start_seconds":297,"text":"and the cost for organizations are huge because organizations where not everyone thinks that creativity is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=297s"},{"start_seconds":305,"text":"their job just doesn't perform as well purely and safely the second one is the second I would say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=305s"},{"start_seconds":314,"text":"self-diagnosed superpower that came up was resilience and this ability to push through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=314s"},{"start_seconds":322,"text":"everything that happens take the punches and they feel they have to be there for everyone and lead from the front which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=322s"},{"start_seconds":330,"text":"is fantastic that's why people follow them that's why a lot of people join those businesses two problems again","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=330s"},{"start_seconds":337,"text":"one risk is that they might feel like they need to have all the answers and like I can relate that as a former","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=337s"},{"start_seconds":344,"text":"founder and I've been in boardrooms with those funders and I can see the they can turn into a punching ball um so I need I I get that they they feel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=344s"},{"start_seconds":354,"text":"like this um but suddenly there's no empathy and there's not a dynamic of support in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=354s"},{"start_seconds":361,"text":"the business which means that everyone feel isolated and feel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=361s"},{"start_seconds":368,"text":"that it's not their job to challenge the leader the almighty leader","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=368s"},{"start_seconds":376,"text":"um and you're going to say I mean all this sounds great we do need leaders who are very creative and we do need leaders who are very very resilient","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=376s"},{"start_seconds":386,"text":"the risk is this learned behavior to tune off any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=386s"},{"start_seconds":393,"text":"discordant voices I need to push through I need to be right I can't listen to people that are stopping me along the way to tell me I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=393s"},{"start_seconds":402,"text":"wrong and again I remember exactly what it feels like everyone loves to tell you why your idea is not going to work if you listen to them all the time you're never going to get anywhere","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=402s"},{"start_seconds":411,"text":"but if you don't you might get caught into your own story and become the only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=411s"},{"start_seconds":418,"text":"person that's calling the shot so I think going through The Source process my conclusion was that creative","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=418s"},{"start_seconds":426,"text":"Beauty and resilience is great but not without self-awareness that's the theory um what have we observed working with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=426s"},{"start_seconds":435,"text":"team in practice a few things over the past two years a lot of the businesses came to us because it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=435s"},{"start_seconds":443,"text":"scaled and they needed to bring functional experts into some of the key roles","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=443s"},{"start_seconds":450,"text":"and this is hard because it means letting go letting go of your DNA letting people in who are different and you feel that the culture is going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=450s"},{"start_seconds":459,"text":"suffer and you're going to lose the magic and we had a wide range of discussion working with a lot of the players in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=459s"},{"start_seconds":466,"text":"industry um you wouldn't believe how different the briefs can be that's a whole Spectrum","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=466s"},{"start_seconds":474,"text":"of adjective that leaders use to describe the people they want in their business","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=474s"},{"start_seconds":480,"text":"and it goes from thought Partners people are going to challenge me people are going to brush fresh thinking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=480s"},{"start_seconds":488,"text":"to believers and we've had a conversation with a huge business that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=488s"},{"start_seconds":495,"text":"was part of the inclusion who really believed that they should only appoint believers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=495s"},{"start_seconds":503,"text":"and if we have to take some lessons today we've seen a direct correlation between where those businesses are at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=503s"},{"start_seconds":512,"text":"and what's the level of diversity cognitive diversity that they're ready to welcome in their businesses","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=512s"},{"start_seconds":519,"text":"and so if there was one lesson that we would take away is that you're a Believer bring believer in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=519s"},{"start_seconds":528,"text":"but bring people who believe in changing things people believe in challenging in challenging you and challenging","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=528s"},{"start_seconds":536,"text":"themselves the we spoke to Executive in preparation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=536s"},{"start_seconds":543,"text":"of this chat with you who have been at the heart of the inclusion and I've seen it from true and say what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=543s"},{"start_seconds":551,"text":"are your lessons what are your learning and it was around the same line because they were saying","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=551s"},{"start_seconds":558,"text":"I had this voice in me I didn't feel like I was a total believer and so I didn't feel like I belonged and I didn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=558s"},{"start_seconds":565,"text":"speak up and this is where we are right now and this is why I left the organization so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=565s"},{"start_seconds":576,"text":"I think it's hard particularly this is not easy to come in and challenge I think it's important to understand that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=576s"},{"start_seconds":584,"text":"a lot of those people who come to founder-led businesses come from other type of organization and the way you influence in a fonderlet business high","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=584s"},{"start_seconds":591,"text":"growth and changing the world is different from their previous life because in their previous life they could borrow credibility from experience","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=591s"},{"start_seconds":600,"text":"whereas in the businesses that we're in now you think mostly by first principle","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=600s"},{"start_seconds":607,"text":"so there is a de-learning and relearning about how you influence even as a senior exec before you can even start changing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=607s"},{"start_seconds":615,"text":"the businesses that you are in and it's important for the people who come in to understand and it's important","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=615s"},{"start_seconds":623,"text":"for the people who integrate them to understand that they come from a different world one we call the complicated world and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=623s"},{"start_seconds":630,"text":"when we call the complex world different rules different game it's um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=630s"},{"start_seconds":639,"text":"it's all the more difficult in businesses like this one in our industry because it's decentralized","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=639s"},{"start_seconds":648,"text":"and this is something that is new to a lot of people so they're not playing to their strengths but they do need to wait in really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=648s"},{"start_seconds":655,"text":"quickly to make a difference I think the lessons is it doesn't have to be that way very simply but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=655s"},{"start_seconds":663,"text":"um this is a new industry with a chance to do things differently a chance to build new models and as you're building new technology a new over operating","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=663s"},{"start_seconds":671,"text":"model there is room for a new form of leadership this is not science fiction we're working with a lot of team that are starting by first principle about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=671s"},{"start_seconds":679,"text":"the type of leadership that they want to bring and understanding how they can bring the best talent from established","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=679s"},{"start_seconds":686,"text":"organization Tech organization web 2 organization and bring all this to web 3 because that's the only way you're going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=686s"},{"start_seconds":694,"text":"to be able to scale and grow is to rely on the lessons of the past so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=694s"},{"start_seconds":701,"text":"not going to leave you with some tips but maybe some questions what if what if leaders in web 3 where is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=701s"},{"start_seconds":709,"text":"one who redefine what good leaderships look like and you wouldn't believe it but in wipes too I had discussions with leaders in question session about what good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=709s"},{"start_seconds":717,"text":"leadership look like and they all came from American movies from the 80s so there's plenty of room to do things differently","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=717s"},{"start_seconds":725,"text":"what if the teams challenge themselves to think about why do I exist why do we exist as a group","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=725s"},{"start_seconds":732,"text":"why don't we even come together as a team one is our world towards each other and what is a role to support and Rubble","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=732s"},{"start_seconds":741,"text":"harms against the founder and challenge with scare some challenges will be specific to your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=741s"},{"start_seconds":750,"text":"industry because it's decentralized and it's not easy um but some leadership teams are Universal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=750s"},{"start_seconds":760,"text":"and at Diggins under we came up with a Model A few years ago about what makes a great leader","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=760s"},{"start_seconds":768,"text":"I mean I think in the end it's not rocket science it comes down to four things the first one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=768s"},{"start_seconds":776,"text":"we call insights and insight is the ability to take lots of complex information and make sense of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=776s"},{"start_seconds":784,"text":"it in the way that people understand the second one is engagement and engagement is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=784s"},{"start_seconds":793,"text":"how do you take people with you when it's difficult the third one is determination","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=793s"},{"start_seconds":802,"text":"but not charging through it's really keeping eye of the target while listening","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=802s"},{"start_seconds":809,"text":"to the dissonant voices along the way and I think it couldn't be more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=809s"},{"start_seconds":816,"text":"important given where we are in the journeying industry and the last one but the most important","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=816s"},{"start_seconds":824,"text":"one is curiosity curiosity is the best indicator and we've looked at data over 60 years of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=824s"},{"start_seconds":832,"text":"how successful Founders have been is the first indicator of potential success of a leader not only in web 3 not only in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=832s"},{"start_seconds":841,"text":"Tech in any form of leadership and this true form of curiosity curiosity towards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=841s"},{"start_seconds":848,"text":"the world what's going on what's Happening what can I learn from what could my business do differently","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=848s"},{"start_seconds":856,"text":"but even more importantly curiosity towards yourself as a leader the ability to challenge the ability to reconsider","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=856s"},{"start_seconds":865,"text":"what's all the assumption that I'm making about myself and what the good leaders look like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=865s"},{"start_seconds":872,"text":"that are getting in my way at this stage of my business so I wanted to leave you with these","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=872s"},{"start_seconds":879,"text":"thoughts I'm not here to teach you anything or give you lessons but if there's one thing that I took away speaking to oldest leaders over the last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=879s"},{"start_seconds":887,"text":"three months is that through winter spring summer what is gonna Define the successful businesses and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=887s"},{"start_seconds":896,"text":"projects and the others comes down to one thing um stay curious thank you very much","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=896s"},{"start_seconds":910,"text":"big thanks to magaly there how to be a leader for All Seasons stay curious","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=910s"},{"start_seconds":917,"text":"up next and by the way we're running about 50 minutes late on this stage 50 minutes behind because we started 50","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=917s"},{"start_seconds":925,"text":"minutes late so just FYI if you look at the schedule just plus 50 minutes to all those times I'm June I'm your host for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=925s"},{"start_seconds":935,"text":"today I'm with Amplified event strategy and you may have seen some of my work in coindesk quartz and elsewhere over the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=935s"},{"start_seconds":943,"text":"years up next we all know usn we're going to get some updates from nears decentralized stablecoin with Danny","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=943s"},{"start_seconds":951,"text":"Balin and Mark sugden welcome to the stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=951s"},{"start_seconds":961,"text":"you guys can hear me yeah you can hear myself one two three so we're all familiar with this Lego thanks for coming actually everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=961s"},{"start_seconds":970,"text":"first and foremost there's lots of exciting stuff going on out there so uh thanks for choosing to spend some time with us last time Denny","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=970s"},{"start_seconds":979,"text":"and I were speaking to the crowd it was uh plus 42 yeah 42 degrees so it seems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=979s"},{"start_seconds":986,"text":"like we're a disaster couple yeah so today it's raining and uh pigeons bombing yeah a pigeon actually just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=986s"},{"start_seconds":993,"text":"pooed on me it's good luck where I'm from so yeah I don't know what other cultures were where I'm from if a pigeon does that to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=993s"},{"start_seconds":1001,"text":"you you're in for a treat so Happy Days um hopefully this clicker works","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1001s"},{"start_seconds":1010,"text":"uh where am I pointing at no is this is this the right clicker no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1010s"},{"start_seconds":1019,"text":"uh Let's Talk Amongst yourselves uh yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1019s"},{"start_seconds":1027,"text":"any AV people can help me with a clicker yeah on it uh run quick run clicker user","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1027s"},{"start_seconds":1036,"text":"error perfect there we go there we go so who are we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1036s"},{"start_seconds":1047,"text":"Denny why don't you tell everyone for the lovely people here that don't know who you are considering that I hardly hear you I'm just reading by your lips hopefully the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1047s"},{"start_seconds":1056,"text":"crowd hears us better so on the left that's me in the pre-web 3 era when I didn't have the earrings and all that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1056s"},{"start_seconds":1064,"text":"stuff and I didn't own a little bit of USM I've been doing projects and products working with teams","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1064s"},{"start_seconds":1073,"text":"creating value for like 1890 19 years and finally I'm here with all of you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1073s"},{"start_seconds":1081,"text":"trying to get my way through crypto world and what about you mark so I've been in or around technology for my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1081s"},{"start_seconds":1090,"text":"entire professional career working in it managed Services then moved on to fintech for a payments organization","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1090s"},{"start_seconds":1098,"text":"um that role moving into fintech was always because I wanted to work in the web 3 space and in that role I was lucky enough to have some crypto businesses","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1098s"},{"start_seconds":1106,"text":"that we facilitated their on and off ramp capabilities so moving from a payments fintech environment to the near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1106s"},{"start_seconds":1114,"text":"foundation and then you know two-way a financial product was quite a Natural Evolution for me and uh yeah really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1114s"},{"start_seconds":1121,"text":"really enjoying my time working as the previous said you know a new model when I've been you know growing up and working in a really corporate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1121s"},{"start_seconds":1129,"text":"professional environment where if you have a meeting it's all in a room whereas now it's all over the planet so uh yeah enjoying the challenges","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1129s"},{"start_seconds":1137,"text":"now what about usn what what do we look like at the moment uh we're in transition phase as you know we have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1137s"},{"start_seconds":1146,"text":"launched in uh April of 2022 uh with uh reserves mostly consisting of near and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1146s"},{"start_seconds":1155,"text":"usdt and automatic rebalancing and the winter that has started this spring the winter started this spring showed us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1155s"},{"start_seconds":1163,"text":"that despite the system behaved pretty well and we received a pretty nice results we wanted to do more and to do a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1163s"},{"start_seconds":1171,"text":"much stronger mechanism and the core uh for the for the whole market and the whole industry so now we're in version","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1171s"},{"start_seconds":1179,"text":"two which in our opinion corresponds much better to the bearish conditions of the market is uh much safer and secure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1179s"},{"start_seconds":1188,"text":"as a transactional phase and currently you can mean to ascend only with stable coins","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1188s"},{"start_seconds":1195,"text":"um at this time we have been developing the version 3 will be releasing this month and I'll be speaking about it a little bit later but most important were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1195s"},{"start_seconds":1204,"text":"we were testing theories doing a lot of simulations to actually make sure that the third version that we release in the coming week 6 is something that we are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1204s"},{"start_seconds":1213,"text":"proud of and the market will truly uh like and value so what have we've been doing up to now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1213s"},{"start_seconds":1222,"text":"it's uh we've been lucky to work with a lot of ecosystem Partners this chap here is a nice Banker whale","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1222s"},{"start_seconds":1230,"text":"um custom-made nft by the team at near starter all of these are partners that we've been working with in the ecosystem so we've got tonic which is one of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1230s"},{"start_seconds":1238,"text":"New Order books launched live on uh the near native blockchain try Solaris the the premier amm on the Aurora Network","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1238s"},{"start_seconds":1246,"text":"we're integrating with them set up a nice good stable pool there bit sir um some of you guys probably haven't heard of them so they are a payment","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1246s"},{"start_seconds":1255,"text":"application they're regulated out of Canada and you can now use usn to pay out in 40 different countries as a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1255s"},{"start_seconds":1264,"text":"settlement and 25 different currencies so you can use usn and they will settle locally all through the world in all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1264s"},{"start_seconds":1271,"text":"those different currencies so bringing some real world user adoption there we've got ref Finance hopefully you all know refinance the first amm on the near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1271s"},{"start_seconds":1280,"text":"native blockchain so working with them to really build up that stablecoin liquidity on the network and make sure that the infrastructure and the tools","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1280s"},{"start_seconds":1288,"text":"are there for Traders to operate in the ecosystem and as well as seat Labs nfts so seat labs nft are a ticketing company","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1288s"},{"start_seconds":1295,"text":"uh launched on the near blockchain and we're working with them where all secondary ticket sales will only be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1295s"},{"start_seconds":1302,"text":"possible via usn so solving a couple of issues with you know that arrive within the ticketing industry if you want to on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1302s"},{"start_seconds":1310,"text":"sell those tickets you can get the commission or the artist gets commissioned from that resale value you know moving the problem of scalping","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1310s"},{"start_seconds":1318,"text":"but that will only be done with usn so really building up the use case and hopefully the liquidity of it as well and working with other partners like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1318s"},{"start_seconds":1327,"text":"banksa who will facilitate people to buy usn with their cards so I've got my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1327s"},{"start_seconds":1334,"text":"regular bank card I can go on the seat Labs app I can buy usn with my card and operate with within that infrastructure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1334s"},{"start_seconds":1341,"text":"very simply and of course huobi there huobi are our first centralized exchange partner really really helpful team we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1341s"},{"start_seconds":1349,"text":"so happy to be working with them um really awesome guys so what can you do with all this stuff right you know over the summer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1349s"},{"start_seconds":1358,"text":"farming usn right that's why no one here has a tan um you know we've got good APR for essentially what is one of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1358s"},{"start_seconds":1367,"text":"you know safest products on the market you've got a ref Finance pool where you've got usn and usdt and at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1367s"},{"start_seconds":1376,"text":"moment because usn can only be wrapped uh it can only be minted with usdt um it's a very safe farming product so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1376s"},{"start_seconds":1384,"text":"the the apy is around 12 for a stable pool so really good opportunities for farming stables and in the crypto winter","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1384s"},{"start_seconds":1393,"text":"most of us have a lot of stables sitting there just waiting to capitalize when the market sentiment returns so providing some functionality there as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1393s"},{"start_seconds":1402,"text":"well as Tri Solaris we've got a pool going there tonic we've got some incentives going there and we are working with a whole bunch of Partners within the ecosystem to make sure that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1402s"},{"start_seconds":1411,"text":"users of usn are rewarded by their loyalty in testing it out um something that I mentioned already the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1411s"},{"start_seconds":1420,"text":"version three that will appear on test Nets in the coming days and will be uh released on mainnet by end of the month","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1420s"},{"start_seconds":1429,"text":"this is something very special we have been working recently upon and you know as usual ideas are not new and ideas are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1429s"},{"start_seconds":1437,"text":"cheap but it's all ends with actual implementation and how do you target uh problems and uh challenges when solving","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1437s"},{"start_seconds":1446,"text":"them so usn version 3 will include two cores the first core is stable swap","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1446s"},{"start_seconds":1453,"text":"let's call it a stable swap that allows you to mean to your sand with uh stable coins one to one obviously it will include corresponding security","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1453s"},{"start_seconds":1462,"text":"mechanisms that will allow to secure and defend the reserves from drying out in case uh something on the market happens","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1462s"},{"start_seconds":1469,"text":"and one of the stable coins depends and goes down now the second core is a CDP based the collateral depth position well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1469s"},{"start_seconds":1479,"text":"known to everybody uh uh by maker uh by for example burro and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1479s"},{"start_seconds":1486,"text":"that will allow to Mint or actually borrow borrow USM for volatile collateral such as BDC Earth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1486s"},{"start_seconds":1495,"text":"near and a bunch of other currencies we believe that usn V3 having two cores actually targets pretty different uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1495s"},{"start_seconds":1504,"text":"crowds allowing to mean to assign extremely cost effectively when using the stable swap core for the retail users and using","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1504s"},{"start_seconds":1512,"text":"the CDP core for more defy users when they don't want to actually sell their Bitcoin for example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1512s"},{"start_seconds":1520,"text":"yet they need funds to operate currently uh both cores will be working in parallel they will be connected and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1520s"},{"start_seconds":1529,"text":"balancing corresponding balancing will happen uh so the circulating supply of the usen is always well balanced uh by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1529s"},{"start_seconds":1539,"text":"the cores that were generating it I think the pigeon struck again huh there's those pigeons really don't yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1539s"},{"start_seconds":1546,"text":"yeah cool so we've all seen the growth of stable coins I think uh stable coins","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1546s"},{"start_seconds":1555,"text":"have really set out a niche within it within the crypto space and really identified product Market fit we've seen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1555s"},{"start_seconds":1562,"text":"well I've seen it because I kind of live and breathe stable coins but there are pictures of you know the number of stablecoin addresses continue going up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1562s"},{"start_seconds":1570,"text":"to the right no matter what the prices of the digital assets are it's because they're highly functional Traders can sit in stable coins and still stay in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1570s"},{"start_seconds":1577,"text":"the market they want to participate in the ecosystem we're building up a lot of real world use cases for payments and it's not just you and usn alone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1577s"},{"start_seconds":1585,"text":"obviously there are some real bear muffs in the space like usdt usdc die the market is certainly ripe for disruption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1585s"},{"start_seconds":1592,"text":"so you have to decide you know what do people want and why do they want it and there are certainly trade-offs between decentralization","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1592s"},{"start_seconds":1600,"text":"and mass adoption and those are the kind of things that we will try and address over time first and foremost the Central Bank you know the clue is in the name we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1600s"},{"start_seconds":1609,"text":"are all about decentralization so we think there is certainly a use case there um that will continue the proliferation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1609s"},{"start_seconds":1616,"text":"of decentralized stable coins for people to use them outside of I guess what we call um the the mainstream Financial system","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1616s"},{"start_seconds":1624,"text":"you know letting people that are outside those walls the accredited investors and those kind of things people that say you are and can do things based on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1624s"},{"start_seconds":1632,"text":"amount of money we have we don't believe in that at all we want to make sure that people are able to send funds to countries that might not necessarily be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1632s"},{"start_seconds":1641,"text":"within the confines of of the status quo of the current system for various different reasons making sure we can Bank the unbank those kind of things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1641s"},{"start_seconds":1649,"text":"those are the core thing core things you know the center of our ethos now this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1649s"},{"start_seconds":1656,"text":"graph here is the internet right so I'm sure we've all seeing that Meme of Paul krugman's you know say the internet was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1656s"},{"start_seconds":1664,"text":"a fad you know it's like a fax machine or something like that people just are afraid of change sometimes and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1664s"},{"start_seconds":1672,"text":"stable coins are such a huge disruption to the status quo what goes on today working in payments myself you've all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1672s"},{"start_seconds":1680,"text":"probably had experience in sending money halfway across the world having to wait three times going through a whole bunch of rigmarole to to get the information","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1680s"},{"start_seconds":1688,"text":"in and once you get that information in there's a corresponding bank somewhere on the chain that needs more information those kind of things there's got to be a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1688s"},{"start_seconds":1695,"text":"better way right and and this is what blockchains enable and we can certainly verify all of the transactions all the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1695s"},{"start_seconds":1703,"text":"steps along the way make sure that you know we've got full visibility of what is currently a very opaque system you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1703s"},{"start_seconds":1712,"text":"know you don't know what corresponding Bank your payment is with at the moment how much they've got whites held up you know all the steps of a chain in a blockchain so that's why we are going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1712s"},{"start_seconds":1720,"text":"see as more people get into the crypto space get web 3 wallets we're still not there yet you know I I bought a beer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1720s"},{"start_seconds":1728,"text":"with my near or USA then the other day you know it's still it's fun you know we're into web 3 we enjoy it but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1728s"},{"start_seconds":1736,"text":"user experience is still not there from a wallet um a wallet point of view but there are so many people here today A lot of you even that are all working on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1736s"},{"start_seconds":1744,"text":"that ux right so if we keep on building the infrastructure in place that's where we're going to start seeing that hockey stick up to the right from an adoption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1744s"},{"start_seconds":1751,"text":"point of view because we see the use cases there it's all about the UI the usability so that's why we're doing this there's plenty of plenty of room for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1751s"},{"start_seconds":1760,"text":"stable coins to grow and we want to be there right right in the middle of that um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1760s"},{"start_seconds":1768,"text":"we want to point out the key unique features of USM I think the most unique feature is the sustainable yield","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1768s"},{"start_seconds":1777,"text":"generation that by Design is the feature of usn and hardly any other stable can offer that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1777s"},{"start_seconds":1786,"text":"how this actually work the near that will be placed into the reserve will be staked and the state Awards will be then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1786s"},{"start_seconds":1794,"text":"converted to your send and distributed and this is the feature that greatly uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1794s"},{"start_seconds":1801,"text":"differentiates us from many other stable coins on the market the other feature is that in nearest Future I think it's a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1801s"},{"start_seconds":1810,"text":"third quarter of this year the transactions in usn will be actually paid in USM so now you don't need to have near on your wallet to transact in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1810s"},{"start_seconds":1818,"text":"your sand and we believe that's a major step forward because currently if you wanna send usdt you need to have F or TRX or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1818s"},{"start_seconds":1828,"text":"whatever by end of the year we plan to go full cross chain literally make the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1828s"},{"start_seconds":1836,"text":"experience of bringing collateral on ethereum and receiving usno near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1836s"},{"start_seconds":1843,"text":"make it seamless make it literally one click allowing you to deposit funds on one layer one and receive usn on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1843s"},{"start_seconds":1853,"text":"other protocol and the number four is of course we're looking forward to moving to fully centralization which obviously","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1853s"},{"start_seconds":1862,"text":"includes the structure of the product from the legal point of view of course the governance and the technical side of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1862s"},{"start_seconds":1871,"text":"things say if any of you have any questions we've got a booth down in the ecosystem uh section so come find us we'll have a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1871s"},{"start_seconds":1880,"text":"chat um call to action you know if you can think of a way that usn would help your users anything you're building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1880s"},{"start_seconds":1888,"text":"um interested in taking part in the ecosystem we welcome all conversations and of course the Dow will be open to anyone to come and contribute so pop by","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1888s"},{"start_seconds":1895,"text":"the Discord come and let us know if you have any ideas or want to contribute in any way thanks for listening thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1895s"},{"start_seconds":1908,"text":"or stable coin uh Pioneers here um up next though uh Danny is not going anywhere he's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1908s"},{"start_seconds":1916,"text":"going to stay on stage he was going to come back we're going to have a panel discussion about the future of stable coins moderated by Lindsay Crawford of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1916s"},{"start_seconds":1926,"text":"proximity Labs so come on up welcome to the stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1926s"},{"start_seconds":1937,"text":"Edward from Hobby as well I will leave you in Lindsay's capable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1937s"},{"start_seconds":1945,"text":"hands this is the leading one of the leading","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1945s"},{"start_seconds":1953,"text":"product managers of decentral Bank and comes from a background of working in I.T for over 19 years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1953s"},{"start_seconds":1962,"text":"and he's very much a magician with various types of products that he's built previous to crypto and and we have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1962s"},{"start_seconds":1970,"text":"advert Chen as well that is joining us from Kobe as the global head of listings and head of asset strategy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1970s"},{"start_seconds":1977,"text":"and previous to hobby he was an executive director and CEO and the Singapore Hobie arm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1977s"},{"start_seconds":1984,"text":"and spearheaded roby's Global APAC strategy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1984s"},{"start_seconds":1990,"text":"operationally and today I think the first question I want to launch into is kind of understanding where you found","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1990s"},{"start_seconds":1998,"text":"crypto and what makes you specifically passionate about stable coins for for you George um yeah from my experience with crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=1998s"},{"start_seconds":2007,"text":"is uh quite a how do you say that quite interesting it's okay right quite interesting uh story because uh go back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2007s"},{"start_seconds":2014,"text":"to the early 2018. I have no knowledge about crypto I don't even know what is bitcoin and you know I don't even know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2014s"},{"start_seconds":2022,"text":"what is 4B and our founder Leon you have no idea so my investor introduced me to them and say how say Hobby in China the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2022s"},{"start_seconds":2030,"text":"the biggest one biggest public exchange they want to go to the global market they were looking for some good Thailand to join them and guide them so that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2030s"},{"start_seconds":2039,"text":"why they invite me to help them so in the right way I just have you know casual talk but after my own company is being merged they say hey hey man is the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2039s"},{"start_seconds":2047,"text":"right time and you know it's at the new area for the for the you know for the uh for the crypto that's why I joined them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2047s"},{"start_seconds":2054,"text":"so that's the start of the whole story of my my crypto uh experience and then uh yeah as you just mentioned I I in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2054s"},{"start_seconds":2063,"text":"past I I I used to lead a lot of different business within the group so in the very beginning for the global expansion so we help on the Vietnam","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2063s"},{"start_seconds":2071,"text":"Market expansion so I still one of the biggest and the the best influencer crypto venue in Vietnam and then I moved","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2071s"},{"start_seconds":2080,"text":"to lead the institution business I have some college e-colic friends or uh you know sit down and we do a very uh a very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2080s"},{"start_seconds":2088,"text":"quick expansion uh uh to gain the market share for two percent to 70 percent in one and a half year for the whole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2088s"},{"start_seconds":2096,"text":"company and then the company adjusts me to to hit the the listing department and you know the asset Hub now but and we do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2096s"},{"start_seconds":2105,"text":"a very uh very fast adjustment go back to the end of quarter four last year uh and uh in the first half year of 2022 we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2105s"},{"start_seconds":2114,"text":"have around over 230 projects to listen with us and do the all kinds of collaborations with us and we used to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2114s"},{"start_seconds":2122,"text":"have a lot of experience with other uh new uh you know Innovative stable coins and we always treat the USA is one of the best with them so that's why we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2122s"},{"start_seconds":2131,"text":"continue to talk with Danny and you know Nia Foundation till today we have a chance to successfully uh launch them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2131s"},{"start_seconds":2137,"text":"yeah excellent um and Denny for you um what kind of launched you into crypto given your diverse background what brought you to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2137s"},{"start_seconds":2146,"text":"web three um I think luck any chance um kidding as you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2146s"},{"start_seconds":2154,"text":"um one of the booths there is near UA which is a pretty powerful Ukrainian Hub","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2154s"},{"start_seconds":2160,"text":"within the near ecosystem and obviously I have some friends there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2160s"},{"start_seconds":2168,"text":"trying to grow with them the other day last year December 2021 I just gave a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2168s"},{"start_seconds":2175,"text":"call and said hey I want to enter crypto and and they said just two words stable coin","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2175s"},{"start_seconds":2183,"text":"and literally in a few weeks after doing a lot of reading and research that was absolutely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2183s"},{"start_seconds":2191,"text":"amazingly new uh feel to me zero knowledge um and I did hear a Bitcoin before that I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2191s"},{"start_seconds":2201,"text":"did but by end of those a few weeks I was able to come up with a pretty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2201s"},{"start_seconds":2208,"text":"valuable I'd call it a research that made guys believe in me and my opportunity to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2208s"},{"start_seconds":2217,"text":"bring value to the decentral bank as an advisor so that path for me started literally like eight months ago and I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2217s"},{"start_seconds":2225,"text":"extremely motivated and uh well this whole web 3 thing is extremely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2225s"},{"start_seconds":2232,"text":"fascinating and I'm sure that uh on one hand as much as we are making the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2232s"},{"start_seconds":2240,"text":"huge experiment we are part of the experiment nevertheless but we have that amazing opportunity to build the new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2240s"},{"start_seconds":2248,"text":"world you know uh make tomorrow come and happen today um when internet started I was uh too","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2248s"},{"start_seconds":2256,"text":"young so now it's uh our time I think I'd have to agree with that um so Edward question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2256s"},{"start_seconds":2264,"text":"for you as far as people I'm curious about what's the what is the actual use case for stable coins","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2264s"},{"start_seconds":2271,"text":"um and you know for it as well as against um if you could dive into that a bit for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2271s"},{"start_seconds":2278,"text":"us uh you mean a usage case for a stablecoin yes uh centralized decentralized all kind all type of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2278s"},{"start_seconds":2285,"text":"stable coins yes yeah I mean so for stable car usage in a very beginning uh we need to look at back to the history uh when you know go to the the last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2285s"},{"start_seconds":2294,"text":"round of the bull market go back to 2017.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2294s"},{"start_seconds":2298,"text":"um during that stage a lot of people they want to enter the market they want to in a very beginning only for the financial uh utility like trading like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2298s"},{"start_seconds":2306,"text":"Landing borrowing right so they need some uh very good uh how do you say that kind of uh uh uh uh kind of stuff which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2306s"},{"start_seconds":2314,"text":"can help them to transfer their feared asset into the crypto so that's why that's the beginning of the stable coin in the very beginning and during that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2314s"},{"start_seconds":2323,"text":"stage is only centralized the type of the um uh stable coin like Italian USD like Circle USD so they are controlled by the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2323s"},{"start_seconds":2331,"text":"centralized institutions they are handled by centralized collector license stations everything but after that when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2331s"},{"start_seconds":2339,"text":"we go to the D5 summer a new a new uh a new space came out uh the community is uh is passionate about it and we see a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2339s"},{"start_seconds":2348,"text":"very good uh utility utilization and advantage of to to use the the real blockchain technology to make it more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2348s"},{"start_seconds":2355,"text":"you know how to say that uh transparent and more High efficient for the usage of the the capitals that's so that's why","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2355s"},{"start_seconds":2363,"text":"the decentralized stablecoin came out and so far uh from from a crypto exchange angle we see a two main","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2363s"},{"start_seconds":2371,"text":"scenario for the stable coin number one is definitely trading because there's still a lot of Institutions API Traders equatorial investors on the market they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2371s"},{"start_seconds":2380,"text":"want to look for a very good Arbitrage space the stable coin is one of the good you know use case for them another one is uh it's just Danny and Mark mentioned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2380s"},{"start_seconds":2388,"text":"so at the end of the day it's a currency right even stablecoin is a currency why you need a currency because you need a a staff which you can exchange the value","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2388s"},{"start_seconds":2397,"text":"between each other so so the stablecoin another big a scenario is definitely utilization but it already depends on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2397s"},{"start_seconds":2404,"text":"which part of the utilization you want to use in the very beginning it's definitely start from the payment so that's the two main parts we see so far","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2404s"},{"start_seconds":2411,"text":"but Me Maybe in the coming future as uh Danny just mentioned there are a lot of new uh you know space camera a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2411s"},{"start_seconds":2418,"text":"new uh scenarios came out maybe people will use a stable coin for other stuff as well so it's obviously about a challenging","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2418s"},{"start_seconds":2426,"text":"year for stable coins in general um what do you think and and clearly knowing that there's a there's an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2426s"},{"start_seconds":2433,"text":"importance for stable coins um in web3 um what are you thinking are the ways to transition web 2 to web 3 adoption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2433s"},{"start_seconds":2441,"text":"within staplecoin uh you may use the stablecoin to uh adopt more users from web 2 to Webster correct yeah I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2441s"},{"start_seconds":2449,"text":"yeah um so for web3 users I mean for web2 users the main challenge for them is number one the understanding of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2449s"},{"start_seconds":2457,"text":"concept how you're going to understand what is web3 how you understand what is you know decentralization and uh what's the advantage of it and why you want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2457s"},{"start_seconds":2465,"text":"use it or why you have to use it there's a lot of users when they stay in the web tube they they get used to web2 they think web2 is best they think web2 you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2465s"},{"start_seconds":2473,"text":"centralize everything is good you can use right here you use you know food delivery you can use all this stuff you think everything is good but a very few","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2473s"},{"start_seconds":2481,"text":"people they start to realize that oh there's still a lot of way to optimize uh so the number one is definitely how to let them know and recognize the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2481s"},{"start_seconds":2489,"text":"concept and number two when they really have the awareness how they're gonna move themselves into the utilization of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2489s"},{"start_seconds":2497,"text":"the you know the web's reward so stablecoin is very important because not every single applications we see on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2497s"},{"start_seconds":2504,"text":"market now they have the good Affair solution which means if you have the US dollar you have euro dollar you have Singapore dollar as I did I step in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2504s"},{"start_seconds":2512,"text":"Singapore I want to use the Singapore dollar to get it uh to to get used to to enjoying the decentralized application is really hard so how are you going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2512s"},{"start_seconds":2519,"text":"use it you need a stable coin to solve it so that's the reason why yeah Danny um as far as your perspective on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2519s"},{"start_seconds":2528,"text":"what's the use case for stable coins and in general um within web3 the importance of it what are your thoughts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2528s"},{"start_seconds":2537,"text":"um I would uh I would agree with the Edward and you know really not much to add I personally see two main use cases","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2537s"},{"start_seconds":2545,"text":"the number one is that um stablecoin is a great tool for exchanging of value literally paying for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2545s"},{"start_seconds":2553,"text":"something and the second one is of course everything related to trading and financial activity when one wants to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2553s"},{"start_seconds":2562,"text":"park their I don't know Bitcoin into something more stable for a period of time or exit into a stable coin because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2562s"},{"start_seconds":2571,"text":"of some reasons so obviously payments are hardly possible without","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2571s"},{"start_seconds":2578,"text":"stable coins because in the morning Bitcoin has one price in the evening it has the other price and equally the defy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2578s"},{"start_seconds":2587,"text":"world and the trading world needs uh some method of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2587s"},{"start_seconds":2594,"text":"I would say not transacting value but a storing value actually which uh also the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2594s"},{"start_seconds":2599,"text":"stable coin plays this role greatly San","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2599s"},{"start_seconds":2607,"text":"um it's obviously becoming a fairly crowded space with stable coins and what differentiates usn um to the others","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2607s"},{"start_seconds":2616,"text":"um great question thank you first of all uh uh the number one differentiator I believe is that uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2616s"},{"start_seconds":2625,"text":"usn is able to provide I'd call it native and sustainable yields when near from the reserve is actually staked into","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2625s"},{"start_seconds":2634,"text":"a near validator and there is uh received awards are then converted into usn this is the feature literally that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2634s"},{"start_seconds":2642,"text":"is utilizing the nature of uh near protocol which is a dpos protocol and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2642s"},{"start_seconds":2649,"text":"hardly any other stable coin can offer that especially centralized cannot those that are launched on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2649s"},{"start_seconds":2658,"text":"blockchains that don't actually support these kind of functionality cannot offer these type of yields uh that's number","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2658s"},{"start_seconds":2666,"text":"one number two is uh the huge difference will uh be related to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2666s"},{"start_seconds":2672,"text":"transactions in USM to be paid in USM which means you don't need uh additionally near or ethereum or TRX","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2672s"},{"start_seconds":2682,"text":"depending on the protocol you're making the transaction on in order to transact in usn and I think that's an amazing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2682s"},{"start_seconds":2689,"text":"great uh step forward towards something that web3 industry really needs today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2689s"},{"start_seconds":2696,"text":"and that is being user friendly because right now uh we as participants of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2696s"},{"start_seconds":2702,"text":"industry we have a pretty good idea how things work and they do work and a lot of things is possible today already but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2702s"},{"start_seconds":2712,"text":"at the end of the day it is pretty complicated and it reminds me much more about how you would interact with actual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2712s"},{"start_seconds":2719,"text":"internet back in the days and we need to make those steps to make it user friendly so obviously you want","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2719s"},{"start_seconds":2728,"text":"to transact in your send you don't need to have anything else you can transact in usn and the commission will automatically be deducted","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2728s"},{"start_seconds":2735,"text":"converted and the gas fees will be paid and the third feature that doesn't make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2735s"},{"start_seconds":2742,"text":"USM unique per se but I think where placing extra stress on that that is you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2742s"},{"start_seconds":2751,"text":"ascend version 3 that to be launched by end of this month will have two cores as I mentioned the stable swap core extremely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2751s"},{"start_seconds":2760,"text":"extremely Financial efficient one-to-one minting from other stable points that is more for retail users the that is more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2760s"},{"start_seconds":2767,"text":"for those who maybe want to rebalance their risk when compared to owning just usdt or just use DC but on the other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2767s"},{"start_seconds":2774,"text":"hand we'll have the second core the CDP based core working parallel which is which has a much more defyish kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2774s"},{"start_seconds":2785,"text":"specialty I don't know that will allow people to keep their Bitcoin yet get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2785s"},{"start_seconds":2792,"text":"some amount of usn and use it on the market and then be able to safely return it and get their Bitcoin back uh the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2792s"},{"start_seconds":2800,"text":"other very important thing about launching the CDP core is that in addition to launching they actually the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2800s"},{"start_seconds":2807,"text":"second core that's able to Mint USM from over collateralized positions the important thing is that we're adding the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2807s"},{"start_seconds":2814,"text":"functionality of a money market where for example you can bring your BTC receive usn and I can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2814s"},{"start_seconds":2822,"text":"loan your BTC which makes your collateral actually work and earn additional yield for you and that mix of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2822s"},{"start_seconds":2830,"text":"on one hand giving you a very clear feature of hey you want usn here you go on the other hand we're giving you the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2830s"},{"start_seconds":2838,"text":"opportunity that your collateral or at least part of it will always stay at work and bring additional yield and we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2838s"},{"start_seconds":2845,"text":"believe that this mix of one hand kind of straightforward stable coin functionality means redeem mint redeem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2845s"},{"start_seconds":2853,"text":"uh with the functionality of allowing the collateral to earn and under let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2853s"},{"start_seconds":2860,"text":"say bullish market conditions it will be greatly utilized we believe that that's a great mix these three points and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2860s"},{"start_seconds":2868,"text":"Edward I know we discussed a little bit earlier at your take on what makes a stable coin competitive and an already very competitive ecosystem would you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2868s"},{"start_seconds":2877,"text":"mind diving into that a little bit okay the competitiveness of the Stable Market yeah yeah that's a good question to be friendly we see a lot of uh stablecoin","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2877s"},{"start_seconds":2886,"text":"operator on the market or a lot of team they have the passion to run a good stablecoin project but it's uh to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2886s"},{"start_seconds":2893,"text":"friendly uh the the successful case is very rather fewer than in the failure case because uh um you know number one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2893s"},{"start_seconds":2901,"text":"you you really need to have a very good command of you know economics you know the currency you know how to run a very good economic system well that's number","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2901s"},{"start_seconds":2909,"text":"one number two uh uh uh not only for the you know the understanding and the and the setup the whole mechanism but you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2909s"},{"start_seconds":2916,"text":"also need how to operate well that's the main part as just then you mentioned right so you need to have a very good uh usage case you have to have very good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2916s"},{"start_seconds":2925,"text":"utilization case I think that angle is very good I mean you tell you you divide your uh how do you say your your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2925s"},{"start_seconds":2932,"text":"Solutions or your usage case based on different your target audience to demand the real demanding that's that's the most important part about the majority","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2932s"},{"start_seconds":2941,"text":"of the stable coin operators or Team on the market they don't do that they just focus on their own concept build up they think oh this is a good idea I I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2941s"},{"start_seconds":2950,"text":"the algorithm I set up is fantastic but they didn't do they didn't you know look from the the user angle I think that's that's very important part you have to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2950s"},{"start_seconds":2958,"text":"look through the user angle uh why they need your stable coin what kind of what kind of scenario they need your stable coin by this you build a very strong","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2958s"},{"start_seconds":2967,"text":"demanding pool and uh and a convert this demand input into your liquidity and uh and converting liquidity into your you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2967s"},{"start_seconds":2975,"text":"know bigger size of the you know the the volume pool and then you have a very strong market share on the market so that that would be a very important","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2975s"},{"start_seconds":2982,"text":"competitiveness strategy yeah so we were always trying to support this type of the strategy energy because from a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2982s"},{"start_seconds":2990,"text":"centralized institution we used to have our own space stable coin which you just mentioned right but now we don't have so we're willing to to back all the stable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2990s"},{"start_seconds":2999,"text":"stable coin operators who have very good uh you know operation and strategies so I think USA is one of the best for them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=2999s"},{"start_seconds":3006,"text":"so we're very happy to support them and open our community to them but we need to really build up everything based on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3006s"},{"start_seconds":3014,"text":"our communities demanding that would be the key yeah so you said good operations and strategy what does that look like to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3014s"},{"start_seconds":3021,"text":"you uh you mean the stable coin strategy first we don't have we don't have straight stablecoin strategy so far yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3021s"},{"start_seconds":3028,"text":"we just support other third parties uh stable coin yeah and as far as with usn Denny um what what is kind of strategy and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3028s"},{"start_seconds":3036,"text":"operations to you for for getting seeking Excellence for usn what does that look like um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3036s"},{"start_seconds":3043,"text":"I think I think everything and including the strategy is something that's constantly in the works and constantly evolving uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3043s"},{"start_seconds":3052,"text":"there's no way we'll uh reach Perfection because web3 world and the whole industry is uh changing uh and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3052s"},{"start_seconds":3061,"text":"um uh yeah changing uh faster than uh anything else um I think the key points of our current","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3061s"},{"start_seconds":3070,"text":"strategy is that um first of all we're doing everything possible to make you send","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3070s"},{"start_seconds":3077,"text":"stable and reliable because without building trust and without uh clearly stating why your son","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3077s"},{"start_seconds":3088,"text":"is stable why uh the audience the user should not even you know somebody might","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3088s"},{"start_seconds":3095,"text":"use the word believe but I don't like that word because uh usually people are asked to believe in something that kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3095s"},{"start_seconds":3103,"text":"of has doubt to it but in our case we want to make it very clear that this is USM that's how it's built there is no","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3103s"},{"start_seconds":3111,"text":"doubt that it is stable because it's stable by its design that is why we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3111s"},{"start_seconds":3118,"text":"transition from version one though it was uh pretty stable very strong nevertheless not as good as we want it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3118s"},{"start_seconds":3126,"text":"to be for today for the future of the industry so building trust as a result","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3126s"},{"start_seconds":3132,"text":"of clearly uh displaying and explaining why you're sending stable is number one number two exactly uh as Edward said","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3132s"},{"start_seconds":3142,"text":"we're really targeted on understanding what are the main uh use cases and clearly looking at some other stable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3142s"},{"start_seconds":3151,"text":"coins which are pretty big on the market today uh looking back at the days when they launched how they evolved how they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3151s"},{"start_seconds":3158,"text":"grew well it was pretty clear why they did this and they didn't do that but usn","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3158s"},{"start_seconds":3165,"text":"was launched in Spring of 2022 right there are a lot of competitors on the market there are a lot of things that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3165s"},{"start_seconds":3174,"text":"somebody did somebody will do and we have to pave our own way and that forces us not just to do what we think is right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3174s"},{"start_seconds":3183,"text":"but rather to understand what the market needs that's why there are two cores targeting the more retail kind of users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3183s"},{"start_seconds":3190,"text":"and more defy kind of users yeah I have something add-on here so because for the stable coin uh how do you say battle or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3190s"},{"start_seconds":3198,"text":"competitiveness is very similar as you know the centralized crypto exchange battle and the competitive this as we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3198s"},{"start_seconds":3205,"text":"facing now but that is one ultimate uh uh how do you say a strategy is always the right strategy trying to find at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3205s"},{"start_seconds":3212,"text":"incremental part of the user case because when you're doing existing Market Battle you will always higher","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3212s"},{"start_seconds":3219,"text":"cost to convert existing users but as Danny mentioned if a usn find a very good you know so uh incremental scenario","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3219s"},{"start_seconds":3228,"text":"which all these users are new for the stable coin then it's quite easy for usn to get a market share and to become more influenceable on the market yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3228s"},{"start_seconds":3237,"text":"and then at Hobby how do you Garner trust with users for onboarding for stable coins or otherwise sorry okay Rebecca how do you Garner trust with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3237s"},{"start_seconds":3246,"text":"users for onboarding and creating that sense of transparency for transfer uh for for the you for the stable coin for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3246s"},{"start_seconds":3253,"text":"the for the users for the users uh for us how how you define the transparency yes our transparency mean for stablecoin","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3253s"},{"start_seconds":3263,"text":"or for the our crypto either or either word uh um I mean for stablecoin transparency very straightforward like you can search","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3263s"},{"start_seconds":3270,"text":"everything online on channel right everything is transparent but for centralized crypto exchange SS we're trying to show everything as much as we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3270s"},{"start_seconds":3279,"text":"can but there's still some centralized product which we cannot show to the users like you know risk control system and the security control system right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3279s"},{"start_seconds":3288,"text":"all this files cannot show but for the you know stable coin you can always do that yeah but how how centralized institution to to prove to the users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3288s"},{"start_seconds":3297,"text":"that you are transparent enough or you are trustworthy enough is by you know the regulation or the license because you have a third party to endorse you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3297s"},{"start_seconds":3305,"text":"they say hey 4B is good right as so that's why we are continuing a lot of license globally yeah yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3305s"},{"start_seconds":3313,"text":"um well I think we are running up on time here but if there's any last comments or or statements you want to make specifically about stable coins","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3313s"},{"start_seconds":3320,"text":"please do yeah you go me uh uh for myself I mean we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3320s"},{"start_seconds":3328,"text":"willing to look uh to to find a more you know new Innovative and a better stablecoin solution on the market and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3328s"},{"start_seconds":3335,"text":"we're always trying to back them to support them uh even we created the China Market we still uh very active on the global market I will try all kinds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3335s"},{"start_seconds":3344,"text":"of and we have very strong uh presence in Asia we still want the top five in uh top top three in Asia top fighting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3344s"},{"start_seconds":3351,"text":"globally so we're still trying best to to back all the strong uh stablecoin operators so that's our attitude but in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3351s"},{"start_seconds":3358,"text":"terms of in terms of the technology side uh to differently we are not expert expertise so we cannot tell much but there's one thing we think is very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3358s"},{"start_seconds":3367,"text":"important is at the end it's the collateral you have to have enough collection to support your project otherwise a little bit challenged","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3367s"},{"start_seconds":3374,"text":"another part is you have to think carefully about your growth strategy only by this we know how we're gonna leverage our resource to support the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3374s"},{"start_seconds":3382,"text":"project we we like your ass like for them for usn yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3382s"},{"start_seconds":3388,"text":"as for me I believe I truly believe that the future of web3 is uh tightly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3388s"},{"start_seconds":3395,"text":"connected with the whole industry of stable coins building uh building out and uh for now despite stable coins have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3395s"},{"start_seconds":3404,"text":"been on the market for a few years by now I think that is uh very much still the very first stages of this uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3404s"},{"start_seconds":3412,"text":"gigantic I'm I'm absolutely sure gigantic industry and uh I think these are great times somebody might say that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3412s"},{"start_seconds":3421,"text":"hey if you launched uh usn like a few months before the events of May","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3421s"},{"start_seconds":3428,"text":"um well yeah from one point of view that could have kind of be better but I'm afraid that it could have been better","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3428s"},{"start_seconds":3435,"text":"only in extremely short time period in a short run but in a long run I'm a great","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3435s"},{"start_seconds":3443,"text":"believer that you know kind of bad times create strong people strong projects and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3443s"},{"start_seconds":3451,"text":"exactly the events of May the reasons why we switched to version 2 and now switching to version 3 is actually that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3451s"},{"start_seconds":3459,"text":"complicated path we're going that allows us to finally you know create that multi-faceted complicated solution that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3459s"},{"start_seconds":3467,"text":"is actually has higher chances to stay on the market for many years yet be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3467s"},{"start_seconds":3476,"text":"ahead technically and governance wise and maybe even legally compared to some other popular stable coins that have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3476s"},{"start_seconds":3484,"text":"been on the market for ages so I also believe that as we're building out usn","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3484s"},{"start_seconds":3491,"text":"um I think we're serving an extremely important kind of mission for the whole industry and that is we are showing that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3491s"},{"start_seconds":3500,"text":"uh the whole industry needs to uh become a little bit more honest with themselves","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3500s"},{"start_seconds":3507,"text":"and stop well obviously it's impossible 100 but majority of people need to start kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3507s"},{"start_seconds":3515,"text":"believing projects that provide realistic yields where transparency is key where these uh these literally","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3515s"},{"start_seconds":3524,"text":"features of the project and the team and the people behind it are the proof that the project is here to stay for many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3524s"},{"start_seconds":3532,"text":"years again not pointing fingers at anyone we've seen beautiful examples of how people tried but the market said","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3532s"},{"start_seconds":3540,"text":"like hey it doesn't matter what you try the rules are this and if we don't want people to keep on losing money and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3540s"},{"start_seconds":3549,"text":"at the same time the web 2 world looking at web 3 pointing fingers at us and saying that they're scammers obviously","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3549s"},{"start_seconds":3556,"text":"we're not this is extremely important to make this balance of transparency honesty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3556s"},{"start_seconds":3563,"text":"realistic expectations and I think this important mission is upon all of our cells yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3563s"},{"start_seconds":3573,"text":"I'm Denny and George and it was a pleasure and I think up next thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3573s"},{"start_seconds":3581,"text":"okay","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3581s"},{"start_seconds":3585,"text":"thanks everyone thank you thank you thank you thanks Lindsay thank you to that to all our panelists Lindsay Danny","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3585s"},{"start_seconds":3595,"text":"and Edward now you guys are going to want to stick around for the next two sessions because they're going to be big it's a sharding double header and we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3595s"},{"start_seconds":3605,"text":"gonna kick it off with sharding phase one why you should be excited a talk by Max from pagoda","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3605s"},{"start_seconds":3614,"text":"coming up Max","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3614s"},{"start_seconds":3626,"text":"everyone hello I'm Max uh today we're going to talk about a very exciting thing that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3626s"},{"start_seconds":3634,"text":"happening right this moment on near mainnet which is the transition to the sharding phase one and you want to stick around because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3634s"},{"start_seconds":3641,"text":"this more certainly relates like it's very relevant to you too whether you're a validator developer user token holder","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3641s"},{"start_seconds":3649,"text":"it is all very relevant so I'm Max uh I don't know how many of you know me I'm actually here on behalf","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3649s"},{"start_seconds":3657,"text":"of Bowen who couldn't come today I'm a leader of Engineering in pagoda and actually the first employee at near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3657s"},{"start_seconds":3665,"text":"in general before that I was at Google and also did PhD in computer science","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3665s"},{"start_seconds":3672,"text":"so what is what is phase one up until now if you are validator or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3672s"},{"start_seconds":3680,"text":"near mainnet you have to run a node which validates all of the shards and does the block production","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3680s"},{"start_seconds":3688,"text":"and this is quite a lot of the CPU computation and you need a lot of state and you need all that to be collocated on the same machine so this is not the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3688s"},{"start_seconds":3697,"text":"way to do sharding so what we're doing now we're transitioning to the phase where you can start up a node that will be only doing the validation of A Single","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3697s"},{"start_seconds":3706,"text":"Shard and it will do four times less CPU computation and will require four times less States and this is pretty big and important","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3706s"},{"start_seconds":3714,"text":"because there are major implications to this transition well first of all is that we can have simply more validators so today we have 100 validators on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3714s"},{"start_seconds":3723,"text":"mainnet now you're going to have 300 and one thing that I wanted to understand is that near validators","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3723s"},{"start_seconds":3730,"text":"are actual realable dealers like every blockchain has their own definition of the validators but on near if you're a validator you're not just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3730s"},{"start_seconds":3738,"text":"earning stake in Rewards you are actually securing every single header every","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3738s"},{"start_seconds":3745,"text":"second that Minit produces so if we have 300 validators there are 300 signatures every second securing every single","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3745s"},{"start_seconds":3753,"text":"header whether it's a block header or chunk header and it's a pretty big deal because going from 100 to 300 validators increases the security and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3753s"},{"start_seconds":3762,"text":"decentralization of the entire maniac threefold then uh obviously phase one is the only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3762s"},{"start_seconds":3769,"text":"one Milestone of our big shouting roadmap it's a important stepping stone phase two that I'm gonna explain later and finally one thing that not many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3769s"},{"start_seconds":3778,"text":"actually talk about is it's this unique power of the near blockchain which is we can actually reduce the hardware","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3778s"},{"start_seconds":3786,"text":"requirements uh for some of the nodes that do not do the validation of all of the shards so if you do four times less","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3786s"},{"start_seconds":3793,"text":"CPU computation and you need four times less disk space you can run four times cheaper instance we haven't done it this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3793s"},{"start_seconds":3801,"text":"yet but it's coming up pretty shortly so near blockchain is really the only","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3801s"},{"start_seconds":3809,"text":"blockchain out there that not only increases its capacity not only scales but it drastically reduces Hardware requirements and I don't mean like Minor","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3809s"},{"start_seconds":3817,"text":"optimizations by like 10 or so which something that many blockchains do but 4X Hardware requirements drop and this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3817s"},{"start_seconds":3825,"text":"is all coming so this phase one was a truly Community effort and I'm incredibly proud of that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3825s"},{"start_seconds":3833,"text":"the code was written by Pagoda this time but I hope that in the future the code for the protocol will be written by the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3833s"},{"start_seconds":3842,"text":"community too this time the community helped us test this code and iterate on it and we had 1500 people joining in and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3842s"},{"start_seconds":3851,"text":"working with us for many months on actual testing this phase one and the other even cooler thing is that the whole thing was organized by the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3851s"},{"start_seconds":3860,"text":"community too and The prominent parties from the that organized the stake Wars will be here today after my talk during","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3860s"},{"start_seconds":3868,"text":"the panel so stick around and hear from them so what is this phase two that will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3868s"},{"start_seconds":3875,"text":"coming probably next year so phase two will drop the requirement to have nodes that validate all of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3875s"},{"start_seconds":3884,"text":"shards because even with phase one you still need block producers to validate all the shares but with phase two this will be completely eliminated and this also is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3884s"},{"start_seconds":3893,"text":"pretty major Milestone because today we cannot just simply increase number of shards from eight from four to eight because for some of the nodes that will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3893s"},{"start_seconds":3900,"text":"mean that they would need to run twice more expensive Hardware but once the transition to phase two this will no longer happen and we can just increase the number of shards with any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3900s"},{"start_seconds":3909,"text":"repercussions to the hardware costs it's pretty neat so I also want to talk about the usage of the of the near blockchain this is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3909s"},{"start_seconds":3918,"text":"also another thing that not many people are talking about we've been very focused on the transactions and TPS in the blockchain space but this is not the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3918s"},{"start_seconds":3926,"text":"only way you measure the usage of the blockchain also because every blockchain defines transactions differently or near blockchain a transaction is actually a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3926s"},{"start_seconds":3934,"text":"user interaction and sometimes even multiple user interactions bash in a single transaction so on your blockchain transaction is not a network message","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3934s"},{"start_seconds":3942,"text":"it's not an RPC request it's an actual user interaction and uh there are pretty cool metrics","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3942s"},{"start_seconds":3950,"text":"outside the transactions too the most impressive one to me is how many messages minute nodes exchange every second","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3950s"},{"start_seconds":3958,"text":"just to establish consensus and it is 50 500 000 messages every second exchange just before leader notes on the mainnet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3958s"},{"start_seconds":3967,"text":"and I want to assure you that our network is really optimized and we try to exchange as little as possible messages between the nodes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3967s"},{"start_seconds":3976,"text":"the other important numbers are how many read requests we're getting for people who run the apps on on the mainnet so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3976s"},{"start_seconds":3983,"text":"Pagoda maintains this public RPC and point that everyone is using and we have 11 000 RPC reads every second from the apps","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3983s"},{"start_seconds":3993,"text":"and this is also because the apps are so easy to build and near and have the interfacer responses that people really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=3993s"},{"start_seconds":4000,"text":"leverage the RPC when they build the apps on here we this whole thing was only possible","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4000s"},{"start_seconds":4009,"text":"because we invested significant amount of effort in reliability and performance of their main net and if you've been around you know that since we launched","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4009s"},{"start_seconds":4017,"text":"mainnet two years ago we had zero downtime and it was only because we invested an incredible amount of the resources and that we also have low","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4017s"},{"start_seconds":4026,"text":"latency for the RPC but even most importantly we have the protocol upgrades happening all the time we had almost 30 protocol upgrades happen since","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4026s"},{"start_seconds":4034,"text":"the beginning and this is the actual power of near blockchain because we can introduce almost any protocol feature in this way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4034s"},{"start_seconds":4042,"text":"we truly have not encountered any feature on other blockchains that we haven't thought could be introduced the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4042s"},{"start_seconds":4050,"text":"near protocol so if you're very excited about some protocol features on other blockchains maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4050s"},{"start_seconds":4058,"text":"you've seen some virtual machine that you like or contract language or maybe you want to have some kind of integration for instance recently people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4058s"},{"start_seconds":4065,"text":"have been discussing integration with Cosmos please come to us and propose either through any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4065s"},{"start_seconds":4072,"text":"enhancement proposal or the what so-called work groups introduced in these features for the near protocol really want this to be Community effort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4072s"},{"start_seconds":4081,"text":"it shouldn't be just Pagoda building all of the code like we do today it should be done by the entire community so if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4081s"},{"start_seconds":4089,"text":"you have ideas then you know what you want to implement submit proposal come to the word groups if you're just excited and you want to help in some way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4089s"},{"start_seconds":4097,"text":"come to our community groups and brainstorm with everyone and uh even create your own community group if you want there is going to be a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4097s"},{"start_seconds":4106,"text":"talk tomorrow by Ori which is called high standards this is where he's going to tell you how we're going to be decentralizing development of near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4106s"},{"start_seconds":4113,"text":"protocol in general but you can also visit this URL and also stop by our booth to learn how you can help us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4113s"},{"start_seconds":4120,"text":"so that is it from me please subscribe to our tweet and check out this QR code","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4120s"},{"start_seconds":4132,"text":"thanks so much for that Max you can go off stage we are going to reset the stage for a large community panel to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4132s"},{"start_seconds":4141,"text":"talk over all of those things that Max just mentioned stake Wars and more with all of pagoda's Community Partners so if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4141s"},{"start_seconds":4150,"text":"you've just joined us I'm June I'm your host for the stage today this stage is running 50 minutes behind so plus 50","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4150s"},{"start_seconds":4159,"text":"minutes on the agenda if you look at the agenda we're 50 minutes behind because we had to start a little late","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4159s"},{"start_seconds":4167,"text":"now I believe we are almost set uh I'm gonna invite chatna Desai from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4167s"},{"start_seconds":4174,"text":"Pagoda on stage and she's gonna bring up the rest of her panel big hand for chetna","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4174s"},{"start_seconds":4191,"text":"hello now hey everyone thanks for being here I know uh not really weather-wise","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4191s"},{"start_seconds":4198,"text":"complying but we are so grateful that you're all here with the panel I'm really excited to bring our Community","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4198s"},{"start_seconds":4205,"text":"Partners as well as some of the Pagoda speakers on stage first up we have Henry from open charts","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4205s"},{"start_seconds":4219,"text":"and we have uh AVB Alejandro from medapur","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4219s"},{"start_seconds":4227,"text":"we have Stanley from metaweb","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4227s"},{"start_seconds":4233,"text":"and our very own George from Pagoda","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4233s"},{"start_seconds":4240,"text":"not but not least Max from Pagoda","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4240s"},{"start_seconds":4249,"text":"all right oh can you guys hear me with my mic now awesome all right excellent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4249s"},{"start_seconds":4259,"text":"um so we are all thrilled to be here um I think um I want to just call out a quick cue which is uh Viet near believe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4259s"},{"start_seconds":4268,"text":"in building creating without any limits uh what I mean by that is no limits in terms of building anything on here for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4268s"},{"start_seconds":4277,"text":"example you can use any language not just rest we have Js SDK as well to support hundreds of millions of developers who can actually onboard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4277s"},{"start_seconds":4285,"text":"easily the second is what the team is sharding right the dynamic sharding which is our future where there's no limits for hyper","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4285s"},{"start_seconds":4294,"text":"scaling right so you can scale up and down as Max mentioned with that cue I want to go into panel and kind of focus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4294s"},{"start_seconds":4301,"text":"on the partners here asking them in in your perspective because your close partners with us give us a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4301s"},{"start_seconds":4309,"text":"about why near for you in terms of sharding specifically yeah go ahead okay yeah I'll go right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4309s"},{"start_seconds":4317,"text":"ahead so you know when I looked at uh different Brock chains I looked at uh near and its sharding capabilities and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4317s"},{"start_seconds":4325,"text":"what they had forecasted looked like it was really uh not only good from a technology stack but also from a developer so what's great about near is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4325s"},{"start_seconds":4334,"text":"you don't have to focus on the technology you build your D app you build your code base and the tech just works so I think that's the best benefit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4334s"},{"start_seconds":4343,"text":"there yeah hey baby yeah I tend to come at it from like the product used to experience side of things and when you look at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4343s"},{"start_seconds":4352,"text":"different blockchains and their approach to scalability it may scale with like strings attached so when you look at near and the fact that you can have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4352s"},{"start_seconds":4360,"text":"cross-contract calls the developers the programs the users don't have to know or care which charge they leave on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4360s"},{"start_seconds":4367,"text":"network can expand and contract based on demand there are very simple messages that really resonate with people that want to build real products that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4367s"},{"start_seconds":4376,"text":"going to be here in five ten years and that they must have the assurance that the network can keep up with their growth so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4376s"},{"start_seconds":4384,"text":"yeah Stanley go ahead yeah I mean agree with the AVP if we've been you're looking at different blockchains and obviously I think near has struck the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4384s"},{"start_seconds":4392,"text":"perfect balance between scalability and performance and security and decentralization so like for a liquid sticking protocol you know you want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4392s"},{"start_seconds":4399,"text":"actually help decentralizing the blockchain and saying you know sharding you know Chunk on in production and in the future Dynamic starting like that's like built-in decentralization you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4399s"},{"start_seconds":4408,"text":"on the protocol level and that that works very well with the liquid sticking protocol so yeah that's why we you know we chose near and that's why we decided to you know participate in state war and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4408s"},{"start_seconds":4417,"text":"help promoting you know sharding uh to a bigger community yeah thank you all Max going to you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4417s"},{"start_seconds":4425,"text":"about uh specifically about the shirting piece um that you mentioned um like what is it unique to near from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4425s"},{"start_seconds":4435,"text":"other layer one blockchain that we have in terms of sharding right so everybody's claims that the charting but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4435s"},{"start_seconds":4442,"text":"what in particular the near um that they should look for especially the builders developers and entrepreneurs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4442s"},{"start_seconds":4449,"text":"with many other blockchains that have some formal shot in whether they call it sharding or not you do really have trade-offs usually with developer experience usually developer experience","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4449s"},{"start_seconds":4458,"text":"is an afterthought mostly because all of the all of the hype and two years ago was about consensus algorithms so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4458s"},{"start_seconds":4466,"text":"some kick-ass gimmicks but near was focused on developer experience from the very early days so we figure out how to do sharding without degrading developer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4466s"},{"start_seconds":4474,"text":"experience and our ideal is to for you as a developer to not even think that we have Sharden we want you to just deploy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4474s"},{"start_seconds":4483,"text":"a smart contract and don't bother like with what has happening behind the scenes which is entirely the opposite to many other blockchains that you want you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4483s"},{"start_seconds":4492,"text":"to learn and appreciate the complexity of whatever attack that they have built and learn you know about their consensus algorithm and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4492s"},{"start_seconds":4500,"text":"you know and and build around that and this is entirely the opposite to to near approach thank you George do you have anything to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4500s"},{"start_seconds":4508,"text":"add on top of that uh so from a different angle that Simplicity which we want to give uh to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4508s"},{"start_seconds":4517,"text":"application developers and that scalability actually behind the scenes translates in a lot of effort adapter uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4517s"},{"start_seconds":4524,"text":"doing ourselves to make the protocol easy to adopt and that effort is a community effort it comes from Pagoda","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4524s"},{"start_seconds":4531,"text":"and from all the partners who are actually with us in in the effort of creating a stable and a scalable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4531s"},{"start_seconds":4539,"text":"blockchain so all those 28 releases that that Max mentioned and all the journey towards sharping is a group Journey that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4539s"},{"start_seconds":4548,"text":"that we're happy to to share with our partners um and that we want to take step by step while keeping the the domain at stable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4548s"},{"start_seconds":4555,"text":"and also allowing it to adapt to whatever applications you want to put on top of it yeah totally makes sense uh so taking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4555s"},{"start_seconds":4564,"text":"that further down is so we know that what's a unique value prop uh from the near sharding perspective like let's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4564s"},{"start_seconds":4572,"text":"delve into looking back a little bit like since the main net release um and the phase one we are getting towards the sharding Phase One release","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4572s"},{"start_seconds":4581,"text":"which is supposed to be September 21st um what has it been the journey uh from the partners perspective let's start","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4581s"},{"start_seconds":4588,"text":"from the partners perspective like how is that being for you to build alongside Pagoda right and and coming from the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4588s"},{"start_seconds":4597,"text":"community point of view and I think Max mentioned a lot of numbers statistics and such but I want to get your kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4597s"},{"start_seconds":4603,"text":"point of view here as well yeah I'll go um yeah so I think that one of the key things is that as we've deployed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4603s"},{"start_seconds":4610,"text":"sharding over time there's not really been a significant change to either the D apps or the uh validators themselves","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4610s"},{"start_seconds":4619,"text":"other than the protocol upgrade I mean you you didn't really see any change so as we get more decentralized as we scale","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4619s"},{"start_seconds":4627,"text":"more as we put on new protocol features it's been very seamless so I think from a validator perspective it's been very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4627s"},{"start_seconds":4636,"text":"pretty easy for the most part and we've not really had any major hiccups in the chain at all with with all the progress","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4636s"},{"start_seconds":4644,"text":"we've made so that's always good to hear that's right all right yeah from my perspective I really like the finding the right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4644s"},{"start_seconds":4653,"text":"balance between having a strong core technical team delivering these improvements and the community involvement so we've been around since","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4653s"},{"start_seconds":4661,"text":"the very beginning open shorts Alliance Medical enabling empowering training the new sets of validators you know since stake","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4661s"},{"start_seconds":4670,"text":"Wars 2 and the last batch of 40 validators to stake Force three and the next batch of 100 200 validators it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4670s"},{"start_seconds":4677,"text":"really interesting to see how you know the baby gets thrown out of the or whatever the saying is to run out of the ship and it starts swimming and it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4677s"},{"start_seconds":4686,"text":"been an interesting Journey but it's good to see that it's possible like the developer experience is there and yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4686s"},{"start_seconds":4694,"text":"Community that's that's always pleasure to hear um Stanley do you want to add yeah I mean we've been you know working with different communities uh from day one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4694s"},{"start_seconds":4702,"text":"and the violators and also retail users um and also obviously near protocol and attack team and it's amazing that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4702s"},{"start_seconds":4709,"text":"know uh with you know we we've done phase zero last year and then now it's phase one and we've been really doing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4709s"},{"start_seconds":4716,"text":"um you know fundamental changes you know on the particle level but it's so super smooth nobody's affected either validators or users I mean that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4716s"},{"start_seconds":4724,"text":"amazing for us um and also um yeah it's great to see that we are you know helping uh you know onboarding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4724s"},{"start_seconds":4731,"text":"more violators and those onboarding more stakers and it's great to see you know both sides are like growing and like right now you know it's a thick War so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4731s"},{"start_seconds":4739,"text":"we've onboarded in a couple hundred new tank only validators and also on the other side um users are you know taking their more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4739s"},{"start_seconds":4746,"text":"to the protocol and I think that's a super you know that's a very very promising and very healthy growth for us to see uh yeah and I mean we definitely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4746s"},{"start_seconds":4754,"text":"see that you know going into the future so that's that's excellent and George um do you want to kind of bring","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4754s"},{"start_seconds":4761,"text":"a full full run perspective like that is from the community in the validator perspective but if if in the audience we have a lot of Builders and developers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4761s"},{"start_seconds":4770,"text":"how that is significant um in terms of sharding and for them to build on near blockchain so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4770s"},{"start_seconds":4778,"text":"what it basically boils down to is to making sure that the network has the capacity required for the applications","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4778s"},{"start_seconds":4785,"text":"that run on top of it and this this then gets rotate into multiple things like lower costs or or being able","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4785s"},{"start_seconds":4793,"text":"to have a larger number of transactions on the network but at the end of the day as a developer your main focus should be on your application and your business","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4793s"},{"start_seconds":4801,"text":"Logic on on your product and you should take the the blockchain as a foundational piece of technology that works and it's there for you whenever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4801s"},{"start_seconds":4808,"text":"you need it and that it's also is with you as part of your journey when you're going to have success and you're going to have users and your application","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4808s"},{"start_seconds":4816,"text":"is going to grow the building blocks that you're using have to grow together with you and the scalability that near offers and all the sharding that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4816s"},{"start_seconds":4824,"text":"work that we're doing and we're planning to do will help a lot in that in that direction yeah and I think we had a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4824s"},{"start_seconds":4832,"text":"of learning throughout the state course episode three right so we talk about uh we have the cause that we talk about bring all the feedback from the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4832s"},{"start_seconds":4841,"text":"community uh through the partners and we also do that through discard um it's it's humbling to say the least","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4841s"},{"start_seconds":4847,"text":"like the feedbacks that we get both good in terms of the wins and also in terms of the learnings right so the things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4847s"},{"start_seconds":4855,"text":"that we can actually take that as a learning for the the future of the charlatans right so that brings to the the next topic that I wanted to talk","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4855s"},{"start_seconds":4864,"text":"about is the future right so I think Max sort of eluded a lot of things in his presentation but specifically what I I want to think about is one to give a cue","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4864s"},{"start_seconds":4873,"text":"into the future of State Wars like post phase one what is Phase two's ability to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4873s"},{"start_seconds":4880,"text":"take the stakehorse further down right so um I want to kind of get a little more into like what are you guys planning in terms of the next episodes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4880s"},{"start_seconds":4888,"text":"for the state course so I think we've learned a lot of lessons right we continue to learn as this is actually the third stake War so we've gotten a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4888s"},{"start_seconds":4896,"text":"lot of good feedback from the community we've got some new tools we're building we're looking at tools for auto delegation managing stake doing some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4896s"},{"start_seconds":4905,"text":"things like that so that's from kind of the organizations side and then of course as we continue to expand sharding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4905s"},{"start_seconds":4913,"text":"we're talking about more validators so we've got to bring them through the process of uh onboarding them and and helping educate them through the process","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4913s"},{"start_seconds":4922,"text":"so that's kind of what will be in store for the next stake Wars kind of what we've been doing but Lessons Learned and continue to apply and get better","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4922s"},{"start_seconds":4931,"text":"absolutely yeah yeah for me there are two main lessons","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4931s"},{"start_seconds":4938,"text":"the first one is technology changes but human behavioral design doesn't change","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4938s"},{"start_seconds":4944,"text":"so there's a lot of interesting game theory of when you're introducing incentives to any situation","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4944s"},{"start_seconds":4952,"text":"the humans May behave in ways that were not intended so I think there's a lot of lessons around structuring the competition in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4952s"},{"start_seconds":4961,"text":"way that leads to the desired outcome like we battle tested the code but some incentives had to be tweaked along the way so we've got a nice Playbook now on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4961s"},{"start_seconds":4969,"text":"how to optimize for future iterations the second one which I mentioned very briefly is when you look at the community aspect it also requires","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4969s"},{"start_seconds":4977,"text":"commitment like we're really proud to be on the community side as Builders and to be able to represent the stakers and validators","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4977s"},{"start_seconds":4985,"text":"but Community requires the commitment to show up and it's basically a full-time workload and you want to you need to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4985s"},{"start_seconds":4994,"text":"aligned with the ultimate outcome to be able to do the sacrifices along the way and I guess it's a message to everyone in the community to get involved but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=4994s"},{"start_seconds":5001,"text":"also it's not just you know shouting loudly on Twitter it's showing up and doing the work","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5001s"},{"start_seconds":5008,"text":"awesome yeah for being here like stick war is never just about you know onboarding more violiners I think like what's more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5008s"},{"start_seconds":5016,"text":"like more like even more Virgo first is that we've heard a lot of feedback and we've received many good submissions from the tenants we posted I think like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5016s"},{"start_seconds":5023,"text":"one is about um violators stats and Mystics and the other one is about um taking form like those I think those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5023s"},{"start_seconds":5032,"text":"things are you know a very sort of you know core to the to the near protocol level and in fact it's taking a form which is very unique to near I think that's sort of you know like the real","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5032s"},{"start_seconds":5040,"text":"value of stick war so you actually get get get get the community involved and you turn on more and more people to think about near and to create and to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5040s"},{"start_seconds":5049,"text":"create on top of near and yeah we think that's really the core value of stick war and obviously we're gonna you know stay along with the you know with the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5049s"},{"start_seconds":5056,"text":"progress of of sharding and onboarding more violators and on the other hand we're going to keep building the community uh yeah and just keep you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5056s"},{"start_seconds":5064,"text":"building around near near staking and make it more more powerful in the future you know that makes sense George do you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5064s"},{"start_seconds":5072,"text":"want to add something or I can actually switch to the next I actually want to say that um going forward the reputation will matter","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5072s"},{"start_seconds":5081,"text":"a lot on your blockchain and people will be taken to validators not only because there is a lower fee","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5081s"},{"start_seconds":5088,"text":"but because this failure has some kind of a good reputation and as our Chardon progresses on its roadmap","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5088s"},{"start_seconds":5096,"text":"it's not going to be just big players like here on a panel today who Stick or or become validators but you're gonna see enthusiasts participating too","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5096s"},{"start_seconds":5105,"text":"and so the small time validators will will fight for their reputation yeah and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5105s"},{"start_seconds":5112,"text":"they would want to contribute certain features and they would want to build the community and have some kind of multiplicative effect and this is what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5112s"},{"start_seconds":5120,"text":"I'm really looking forward for that that's that's a very good point I think we are looking at a lot of large Partners but I think the learning has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5120s"},{"start_seconds":5128,"text":"been going forward more and more individual uh smaller set of groups so we can decentralize in some way to have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5128s"},{"start_seconds":5137,"text":"more validators right in in terms of expanding on the decentralization approach so that totally makes sense yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5137s"},{"start_seconds":5144,"text":"all right I I think um from here I kind of want to go into the realm of uh the future like what is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5144s"},{"start_seconds":5153,"text":"it as Builders can expect more um in specific to sharding but much more than that right we talked about easily","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5153s"},{"start_seconds":5161,"text":"upgradeable bring any feature and we will kind of parody match uh like any retailer does so uh yeah I just want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5161s"},{"start_seconds":5170,"text":"just double click on that more and and talk about composability which the questions comes on hey should we solve that on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5170s"},{"start_seconds":5177,"text":"layer one or Layer Two where should that responsibility lie on so if you have any commentary around that yeah absolutely","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5177s"},{"start_seconds":5185,"text":"developer experience is sacred to near and as Henry said already no one have even noticed that Chardon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5185s"},{"start_seconds":5194,"text":"phases have been launched because they didn't need to update their smart contracts and this hasn't happened randomly we actually put a lot of thought into it we knew from the very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5194s"},{"start_seconds":5203,"text":"early days that we don't want to interfere with the already deployed smart contracts so we're going to continue developing in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5203s"},{"start_seconds":5211,"text":"the direction of developer experience and we're going to leverage all kind of Integrations so that when you come to near you don't need to learn anything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5211s"},{"start_seconds":5218,"text":"new there should not be should not be better we should not have any barrier for the onboarding for people coming on near and so that's where the Integrations","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5218s"},{"start_seconds":5227,"text":"with other blockchains can would come in because you would just either migrate or integrate the same goes for the virtual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5227s"},{"start_seconds":5235,"text":"machine so the programming languages that we're going to support so that's I think that you should be looking specifically forward for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5235s"},{"start_seconds":5243,"text":"totally makes sense and I think it's time to wrap up like any last pointer like why any Builders out here want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5243s"},{"start_seconds":5250,"text":"use specific linear for building apps or just being validators community so just quickly if you can go in rounds and yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5250s"},{"start_seconds":5259,"text":"I'll just go back to the key points you know if you're looking at developing on near right we've expanded the number of shards we've increased you know the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5259s"},{"start_seconds":5267,"text":"number of validators that will continue to change and evolve but it's no change to you as a Dev so right it's a simple","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5267s"},{"start_seconds":5275,"text":"interface whether using rust or JavaScript with front-end development you can come in and build on near and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5275s"},{"start_seconds":5282,"text":"not really have to worry about the tech so that I think that makes near very compelling and scalable for Developers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5282s"},{"start_seconds":5291,"text":"many reasons to build a nearer but maybe specific to sharding and stake Wars I like that decentralization is very intentional as well like when you look","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5291s"},{"start_seconds":5300,"text":"at a network being decentralized the nodes need to be both sprayed out geographically but also politically and being very intentional about reaching","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5300s"},{"start_seconds":5309,"text":"out to the community and enabling them to join the validator set you will actually see a very meaningful distribution of the near across many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5309s"},{"start_seconds":5317,"text":"validators and that really makes the network resilient and yeah it's just very exciting to be able to get involved at any layer of the stack it could be a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5317s"},{"start_seconds":5325,"text":"validator a builder a user yeah Stanley yeah I think the next step was yeah it's actually to you to grow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5325s"},{"start_seconds":5332,"text":"usage because uh we've got the best info we've got the best community we've got a very decentralized group of validators and you know now it's time to you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5332s"},{"start_seconds":5340,"text":"make 100 of Youth of it right so uh and for us we're gonna keep facilitating that sort of breaching process between","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5340s"},{"start_seconds":5347,"text":"the best infra to the most used infra yeah so that's our vision excellent George so uh from my","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5347s"},{"start_seconds":5355,"text":"perspective one of the great advantages that you have on on the new ecosystem and on your protocol is the flexibility that we have on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5355s"},{"start_seconds":5364,"text":"technology side to actually Implement support and add features and add improvements to the protocol that are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5364s"},{"start_seconds":5372,"text":"related to the applications you're developing so sharding or JavaScript support or many other things that we've done in the past and that we help plan","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5372s"},{"start_seconds":5379,"text":"in the future are examples in this space where we have the flexibility on the technology side to make things happen and we are super super keen and super","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5379s"},{"start_seconds":5388,"text":"willing to hear feedback from you regarding what are the things you would like to see inside a protocol and to find ways to make those happen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5388s"},{"start_seconds":5395,"text":"Max so with near the developers that build smart contracts on the blockchain are not just the users of the blockchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5395s"},{"start_seconds":5403,"text":"they're also the Builders of this blockchain so the earlier you join the more you will be able to affect the roadmap of the near protocol many of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5403s"},{"start_seconds":5410,"text":"vertical features like pre-compiles today are actually were proposed by the contract builders","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5410s"},{"start_seconds":5417,"text":"so that's the opportunity to come in and create exponential impact for the future roadmap of the near blockchain yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5417s"},{"start_seconds":5425,"text":"absolutely just to wrap up it's it's just amazing what you're hearing I think if you really want to get your hands dirty you have to come and start","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5425s"},{"start_seconds":5433,"text":"proposing and building and as he mentioned Ori is presenting NEP it's it's the way of proposing and contributing the code base as well and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5433s"},{"start_seconds":5442,"text":"we really encourage you guys to starts submitting proposals or at the least come to the Pagoda Booth here if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5442s"},{"start_seconds":5449,"text":"you have any questions comments suggestions we are happy to take anything so we it has to be completely communicable and we really encourage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5449s"},{"start_seconds":5457,"text":"that so one last note so as Ilya mentioned we go by KISS principle which is keep it simple secure and scalable so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5457s"},{"start_seconds":5465,"text":"remember just that if you can't remember anything else so thank you for coming and a big round of applause to the whole panel","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5465s"},{"start_seconds":5478,"text":"hey everybody I hope you enjoyed the break I hope you got to try some of the great food we have out there from different regions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5478s"},{"start_seconds":5485,"text":"I really want to thank you for coming out and uh joining us here at near con this year it's been a great turnout I hope you're managing to keep dry out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5485s"},{"start_seconds":5493,"text":"there so yeah we have some great great panels coming up I hope that you guys enjoy them I want to introduce a young Jean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5493s"},{"start_seconds":5502,"text":"she's going to be speaking about crossing the chasm how to make bridges safe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5502s"},{"start_seconds":5517,"text":"hello hi all right thank you Marcus and thank you all for joining us today on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5517s"},{"start_seconds":5524,"text":"this discussion around making Bridges safe so I'd like to bring up uh to uh the stage our panelists for today so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5524s"},{"start_seconds":5533,"text":"let's go ahead and if you wouldn't mind coming up we have glass from composable Finance kiddo from Aurora labs and Jess","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5533s"},{"start_seconds":5541,"text":"from archway all right so I would love to give each","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5541s"},{"start_seconds":5554,"text":"of you like a minute to kind of introduce yourselves what you do and um kind of what brought you to nircon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5554s"},{"start_seconds":5562,"text":"totally um so I can start because I'm sitting right here uh my name is Jessica Solomon um unfortunately not Jessica Solomon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5562s"},{"start_seconds":5571,"text":"however that would be pretty dope and so I work on a number of different things I actually started my career back in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5571s"},{"start_seconds":5579,"text":"ethereum ecosystem I was the first Community manager at maker Dow started at the launch of single collateral dye","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5579s"},{"start_seconds":5586,"text":"in 2017. since then I've begun Consulting doing strategy working on a number of different exciting projects","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5586s"},{"start_seconds":5594,"text":"within web3 it's been awesome to see how the entire web 3 ecosystem has really grown especially near and everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5594s"},{"start_seconds":5602,"text":"that's popping off at these festivities but currently I'm here working on a project called Archway Archway is pretty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5602s"},{"start_seconds":5610,"text":"cool it's a smart Contracting platform for Cosmos so basically a way for people to deploy dapps and access Cosmos assets","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5610s"},{"start_seconds":5620,"text":"as cosmos is a large ecosystem where with lots of different chains so sort of a concentration of all that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5620s"},{"start_seconds":5628,"text":"awesome yeah uh hi I'm kiril I'm leading the Rainbow Bridge team in Aurora Labs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5628s"},{"start_seconds":5635,"text":"building everything related to the bridges to cross-chain interoperability","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5635s"},{"start_seconds":5642,"text":"and yeah like we are trying to build and we're working real hard super hard to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5642s"},{"start_seconds":5648,"text":"have a bridge which is safe because yeah you know like this is quite an issue that's that's why we're here on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5648s"},{"start_seconds":5655,"text":"panel to discuss this thing um yeah like I'm quite for a long time in blockchain for many years and yeah excited to build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5655s"},{"start_seconds":5664,"text":"these things and excited to be here on this great conference I'm glass I've been in crypto for some","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5664s"},{"start_seconds":5671,"text":"time I started building a derivatives exchange on top of lighting Network then moved to ethereum worked","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5671s"},{"start_seconds":5679,"text":"on CG Roll-Ups I'm currently leading the trusted Bridges I composer of Finance so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5679s"},{"start_seconds":5686,"text":"we're working very hard to make this happen and working side by side with near and very excited to be here and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5686s"},{"start_seconds":5695,"text":"being part of his amazing movement awesome so thank you all for joining me this afternoon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5695s"},{"start_seconds":5702,"text":"um so obviously this last year has been a little bit crazy I mean from Wormhole to Nomad to Ronan according to chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5702s"},{"start_seconds":5710,"text":"analysis roughly two billion dollars right two billion has been lost to bridge hacks in the last year that's an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5710s"},{"start_seconds":5717,"text":"astronomical number and yes that's very crazy but I feel like the media narratives just you know dominated by that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5717s"},{"start_seconds":5725,"text":"um obviously you know whether we're talking about like end users or Builders as we're moving towards Mass adoption","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5725s"},{"start_seconds":5733,"text":"like interoperability is inevitable right and so if we're thinking about it from that perspective of well it's something that's got to happen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5733s"},{"start_seconds":5742,"text":"um I feel like the big question is how do we make that interoperability as safe as possible and so that brings us to our discussion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5742s"},{"start_seconds":5751,"text":"today um to kicking things off like I said obviously it's been a crazy year um I'd love to ask each of you kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5751s"},{"start_seconds":5758,"text":"what have you learned from the recent you know high profile hacks how are you guys kind of approaching the way you think about things and solve problems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5758s"},{"start_seconds":5767,"text":"and build yeah absolutely so uh in terms of a number of the high profile attacks recently one of the things I've observed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5767s"},{"start_seconds":5776,"text":"is is often not a problem with the actual model it could be as simple as a smart contract there however a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5776s"},{"start_seconds":5785,"text":"these Bridges have received extremely legitimate Audits and have been verified that being said I'd say audits while","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5785s"},{"start_seconds":5794,"text":"extremely important aren't necessarily the Silver Bullet the end-all be-all as someone that works on projects that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5794s"},{"start_seconds":5802,"text":"cares a lot about the ecosystem and end users feeling confident and not terrified from these essentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5802s"},{"start_seconds":5809,"text":"terrifying hacks I'd love to help put out more bounties for white hat hackers to try and exploit and and find certain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5809s"},{"start_seconds":5818,"text":"vulnerabilities before things actually come to Market and we suffer consequences that could have potentially","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5818s"},{"start_seconds":5825,"text":"been avoided with some smart white hat hackers um yeah so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5825s"},{"start_seconds":5832,"text":"um well you know like a lot of bridges that were hacked uh they actually were having like a great team behind them and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5832s"},{"start_seconds":5840,"text":"yeah as just said uh they had like some audits but it's just not enough and for some for example bridges for hugs that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5840s"},{"start_seconds":5848,"text":"happened um like if we talk retrospectively of course it's easier to talk this way uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5848s"},{"start_seconds":5856,"text":"some of the issues were because um of the processes so it's just not enough to have an audit because some of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5856s"},{"start_seconds":5862,"text":"the hacks happened uh exactly because um like the smart contract deployment or upgrades went wrong and it went wrong","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5862s"},{"start_seconds":5870,"text":"not it just went wrong and it's a mediated hacked so it was like this in the state for a couple of months until","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5870s"},{"start_seconds":5877,"text":"somebody noticed it so I would say it's it's about um General approach if we talk how to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5877s"},{"start_seconds":5885,"text":"make it safe so let's compare to some like real world uh like situation like if we talk about some robots like robust","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5885s"},{"start_seconds":5895,"text":"Fails Like aerial industry usually if you want to build a plane you need to go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5895s"},{"start_seconds":5901,"text":"like three million checkups from million audits eventually you have like safe flights um but it comes like a huge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5901s"},{"start_seconds":5910,"text":"value behind that so for building the bridge from my perspective perhaps they ideal approach","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5910s"},{"start_seconds":5917,"text":"would be like let's say to use waterfall uh like technology to go from multiple stage from the design it written but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5917s"},{"start_seconds":5926,"text":"then just one Bridge could take like five six seven years to build just because it's quite slow to iterate and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5926s"},{"start_seconds":5934,"text":"the blockchain unfortunately you have no chance if you don't if you build your products for years and years and you don't deliver anything you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5934s"},{"start_seconds":5942,"text":"no chance actually to have it and nobody will use it you will build the safest bridge but nobody will use it for years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5942s"},{"start_seconds":5950,"text":"and after these years and um like from my perspective we have like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5950s"},{"start_seconds":5957,"text":"basically two approaches to build a bridge and um these are main ones uh with regards to what kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5957s"},{"start_seconds":5966,"text":"let's call it consensus of the bridge so the most popular one is when you have multiple of chain validators that just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5966s"},{"start_seconds":5975,"text":"accept some transaction on one chain they verify it with off-chain tools and um then they like mean some tokens on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5975s"},{"start_seconds":5984,"text":"the other chain and most of the bridges work in this way uh and the second approach is that for example we are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5984s"},{"start_seconds":5993,"text":"using up to the Rainbow Bridge is basically we are building light clients for every chain that is connected to the bridge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=5993s"},{"start_seconds":6000,"text":"this makes a lot of sense from our perspective just because if you imagine just building some application on the chain for you you don't care","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6000s"},{"start_seconds":6009,"text":"about consensus because you you are on the same chain and you verify something so with a bridge if you build like light","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6009s"},{"start_seconds":6017,"text":"client base for you it's the similar approach you just know that these smart contracts it has a history","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6017s"},{"start_seconds":6024,"text":"of the other blockchain and I can trust it as far as the live client is implemented correctly so in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6024s"},{"start_seconds":6034,"text":"some sense it's easier to build with light clients in a sense that we don't really need to put like a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6034s"},{"start_seconds":6042,"text":"security like of traditional security of ensuring that the validator is not hacked the like keys are not compromised","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6042s"},{"start_seconds":6051,"text":"because it's trustless it's built on top of light clients and you trusted but it's trustless because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6051s"},{"start_seconds":6058,"text":"anyone can participate and submit to that consensus so yeah in some sense building with validators it's easier but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6058s"},{"start_seconds":6067,"text":"then it's harder to maintain but here if you build the proper one live client then you actually get rid of a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6067s"},{"start_seconds":6074,"text":"pain afterwards yeah I think the the main issue is that we are catching up with the technology","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6074s"},{"start_seconds":6083,"text":"in in how the user need is evolving and the and the constraints of the different chains so some years ago ethereum was","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6083s"},{"start_seconds":6092,"text":"enough then suddenly it was not enough anymore then new chains were developed you have near as a great example and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6092s"},{"start_seconds":6100,"text":"then suddenly you have a lot of ecosystems that are isolated and then the need of connecting them came","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6100s"},{"start_seconds":6109,"text":"but this change in some way they don't move as fast as the needs of the market so then there was the need of bringing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6109s"},{"start_seconds":6118,"text":"this technology uh in a way that perhaps was not compliant with the chain necessarily so these Solutions will","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6118s"},{"start_seconds":6127,"text":"arose uh The Trusted solutions that is the quick and and dirty solutions that we've been using that some of them have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6127s"},{"start_seconds":6134,"text":"been working really well but we've we started seeing that they have also limitations uh a lot of attack vectors","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6134s"},{"start_seconds":6140,"text":"and even some setups that were more secure than other ones were also compromised um so we we realized that there's a need","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6140s"},{"start_seconds":6149,"text":"for standardization so that we don't reinvent the wheel all the time uh a bit uh okay it was saying in terms of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6149s"},{"start_seconds":6156,"text":"using like clients but for that you need the different ecosystems to support that infrastructure so I think like having this conversation and the need from the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6156s"},{"start_seconds":6165,"text":"the market being so big is actually forcing the chains on you know giving this this infrastructure to to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6165s"},{"start_seconds":6173,"text":"builders the infrastructure Builders as well um so to say and and I think in some other way we need to agree when we need","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6173s"},{"start_seconds":6181,"text":"to take a page from the the internet Evolution and say how are we going to communicate with each other let's agree","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6181s"},{"start_seconds":6187,"text":"on this let's say this is an efficient way to do this and let's not talk again about this every time let's not build a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6187s"},{"start_seconds":6196,"text":"new company all this every time we don't talk about TCP we don't talk about HTTP it's a standard we all agree and then we build on top of that so so I think this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6196s"},{"start_seconds":6203,"text":"is what's happening at the moment um and it's kind of converging and all these hacks uh are basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6203s"},{"start_seconds":6210,"text":"accelerating this movement thank you so I guess I have a bit of a spicy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6210s"},{"start_seconds":6219,"text":"question do you think that cross chain vulnerabilities are just inevitable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6219s"},{"start_seconds":6226,"text":"and whoever wants to go first I can go first I think yes I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6226s"},{"start_seconds":6231,"text":"there's always a smart contract risk uh uh it's always a human error and there's always somebody being smarter than","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6231s"},{"start_seconds":6240,"text":"somebody else the question is how can we mitigate this and I think this of you know white","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6240s"},{"start_seconds":6247,"text":"hacker bounties for example is a great way of mitigating these things I think there's a lot that can be you know innovated on the on the insurance uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6247s"},{"start_seconds":6255,"text":"space is very very little Innovation still uh so I think there's probably the best route moving forward is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6255s"},{"start_seconds":6264,"text":"you know uh mitigation and Open Standards yeah I totally agree I think vulnerabilities are in many ways","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6264s"},{"start_seconds":6273,"text":"inevitable and it's sort of our job to protect users and help discover those vulnerabilities before they happen so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6273s"},{"start_seconds":6281,"text":"generous white hat hackers so many of you guys out there want to receive some generous bounties hit us up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6281s"},{"start_seconds":6288,"text":"um uh from I agree with guys uh though from my perspective it's not just balances that could help this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6288s"},{"start_seconds":6295,"text":"um so we think uh like uh in our Labs or about the bridge and about basically any question like a multi-layer","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6295s"},{"start_seconds":6304,"text":"um process of ensuring the security so first of all like um if you build some smart contracts it's not just you deploy it so basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6304s"},{"start_seconds":6313,"text":"it's ongoing the first stage of the Audis of the bridge team itself and it's been verified quite thoroughly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6313s"},{"start_seconds":6321,"text":"uh then the second stage it's been verified by some other folks like from other teams like to take a look at it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6321s"},{"start_seconds":6329,"text":"more and only after this we are coming to the station not even to the audience we are coming to the stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6329s"},{"start_seconds":6336,"text":"to the preparation of the audience so you need uh to prepare a lot of documentations you need to write a lot of tests and with regards to tests","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6336s"},{"start_seconds":6346,"text":"um we believe that its responsibility of Engineers themselves to cover it with the tests so it's not like just a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6346s"},{"start_seconds":6353,"text":"separate QA team when you write some code and any blockchain related code it's it's security critical so basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6353s"},{"start_seconds":6363,"text":"you need to put a lot of effort to cover everything with the test different ones integration","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6363s"},{"start_seconds":6369,"text":"once unit tests this is a quite a meticulous process only after this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6369s"},{"start_seconds":6376,"text":"when everything is prepared it goes to the audit and not only one audits and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6376s"},{"start_seconds":6383,"text":"you can never like be just reliable just on the audit you know especially if some people sometimes they just they possibly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6383s"},{"start_seconds":6392,"text":"owed it and then okay we will want to add just one small feature it's fine but that's just one very very small feature","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6392s"},{"start_seconds":6400,"text":"could introduce actually vulnerability and uh so yeah multiple all these are required not just only one uh preferably","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6400s"},{"start_seconds":6409,"text":"like from different companies uh that are not biased already to the code and then comes the thing with bounties","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6409s"},{"start_seconds":6418,"text":"yeah so with some of the bridges with some of the hacks we can see that they actually introduce bounties after they got hacked","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6418s"},{"start_seconds":6426,"text":"so they are hacked and then they are asking like black hats could you please return and we will give you some bounty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6426s"},{"start_seconds":6435,"text":"unfortunately this doesn't work usually and so yeah you need to introduce","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6435s"},{"start_seconds":6441,"text":"Bounties in advance and for us it was quite fruitful I would say so we paid","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6441s"},{"start_seconds":6449,"text":"out the biggest bound like the second biggest bounty in a blockchain space which was like for 6 million and after","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6449s"},{"start_seconds":6457,"text":"that we paid like a couple more bounties like resulting like an insane amount of 8 million of US Dollars and for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6457s"},{"start_seconds":6465,"text":"whiteheads this is like amazing opportunity to participate it makes it easier because you don't need to you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6465s"},{"start_seconds":6473,"text":"know you if you like a black hat and you steal a money then like basically you have an issue that this funds are frozen","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6473s"},{"start_seconds":6480,"text":"for years you are trying to get not caught by legal um like different teams which are like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6480s"},{"start_seconds":6488,"text":"intelligence teams which are hunting for you so it's better just select some project that have a good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6488s"},{"start_seconds":6496,"text":"bike bounty program and please be a whitehead and receive like a huge reward and uh also not not Financial rewards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6496s"},{"start_seconds":6505,"text":"you will get a recognition uh in a public space so yeah awesome so yeah if anyone is you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6505s"},{"start_seconds":6512,"text":"considering hacking something you know do it for good you know be a white hat for a black hat all right so I guess for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6512s"},{"start_seconds":6520,"text":"the builders if you're considering you know utilizing a bridge um what are some steps you should take to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6520s"},{"start_seconds":6528,"text":"keep it as safe as possible obviously like you know as you're building your project you can't protect for everything like that's just another an inevitable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6528s"},{"start_seconds":6536,"text":"truth and security right like you can't protect against every single vulnerability but you know what can you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6536s"},{"start_seconds":6543,"text":"do to keep it as safe as possible yeah so um basically as I said it's like a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6543s"},{"start_seconds":6550,"text":"multi-layer thing uh to make a protection um but also behind it you really need to have a security team","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6550s"},{"start_seconds":6559,"text":"um who is able to quickly react to any incidents um like 24 7. you cannot afford having","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6559s"},{"start_seconds":6567,"text":"like just a weekend for security hackers will not wait until you get back to your work schedule","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6567s"},{"start_seconds":6574,"text":"um so yeah you need really to have 24 7 someone who is on the call and who will be able to react quickly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6574s"},{"start_seconds":6581,"text":"you need to build a robust monitoring system I mean this monitoring system they are not public so uh you will not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6581s"},{"start_seconds":6590,"text":"get like I don't know like more user traction just because you build monitoring system but this is an essential thing that you need to build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6590s"},{"start_seconds":6597,"text":"just to protect your users it could be invisible from the outside so that it's nothing happening but you really need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6597s"},{"start_seconds":6606,"text":"build a robust internal monitoring system and like of our CDL is some public monitoring too so everyone is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6606s"},{"start_seconds":6613,"text":"able to verify yeah I think in terms of data analysis there's a lot of things that can be done I was the other day looking at a tool","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6613s"},{"start_seconds":6623,"text":"not related to Bridges but they were monitoring system calls and based on the pattern of access to a program you could basically say okay this is malicious","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6623s"},{"start_seconds":6632,"text":"activity and this can also be you know done for anything smart contract access or Unchained activity as well where you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6632s"},{"start_seconds":6640,"text":"can just say okay no this is a historical access patterns what is normal what is abnormal and you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6640s"},{"start_seconds":6647,"text":"trigger alerts this I think there's a lot that can be done on the space uh so it's it's really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6647s"},{"start_seconds":6654,"text":"nothing really hurts yeah like these guys said I think in web3 we're all sort of working together","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6654s"},{"start_seconds":6662,"text":"on this stuff so uh as someone that works on projects that would rely on Bridges","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6662s"},{"start_seconds":6669,"text":"um we want to support those teams where we can and help discover what could potentially be risky for our users ahead","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6669s"},{"start_seconds":6676,"text":"of time and then of course help our users feel safe so that they continue to be a part of the web 3 ecosystem moving forward","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6676s"},{"start_seconds":6685,"text":"awesome all right so I have one last question and then we're gonna open it up for a little bit of q a um if we have some time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6685s"},{"start_seconds":6692,"text":"so I guess to wrap things up what really excites you right now like what's getting you motivated um is there something you want to share","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6692s"},{"start_seconds":6700,"text":"about that you're just like really you know like just it gets you up in the morning","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6700s"},{"start_seconds":6708,"text":"um yeah for sure we all need reasons to wake up and the morning here and because we don't always have this awesome","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6708s"},{"start_seconds":6715,"text":"carnival going on with Ferris wheels and carousels but yeah so one of the things that I'm working on Archway that I find","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6715s"},{"start_seconds":6724,"text":"particularly interesting and what we're entertaining is becoming sort of a hub for IBC assets","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6724s"},{"start_seconds":6732,"text":"um from near so that rather than having multiple different representations of like usdc for example from a through Zed","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6732s"},{"start_seconds":6741,"text":"chain on IBC there could be a sort of concentration of liquidity within archway","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6741s"},{"start_seconds":6751,"text":"um I would say that's one of the things that we should really focus is like from our vision it's really like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6751s"},{"start_seconds":6761,"text":"bridge uh you need to put a lot of effort to make it trustless as much as possible so the process of making it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6761s"},{"start_seconds":6768,"text":"trustless it's hard I mean um you need because you are building trusses you need to ensure that any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6768s"},{"start_seconds":6775,"text":"actor can participate but they cannot be uh emulation sector or if they are malicious then they will not get through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6775s"},{"start_seconds":6784,"text":"it's like similar to the blockchain approach I mean on the blockchain We Trust some consensus whether it's proof of work or proof of stake but it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6784s"},{"start_seconds":6793,"text":"decentralized if we build decentralized Bridges well then it changes everything like with the blockchain like another like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6793s"},{"start_seconds":6802,"text":"evolution of the blockchain because like by default blockchains are not interoperable with each other and if we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6802s"},{"start_seconds":6809,"text":"come to the question like whether they need to be interoperable well um the people in the community they say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6809s"},{"start_seconds":6816,"text":"that they should be uh like it's it will not work if you just need to stick to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6816s"},{"start_seconds":6822,"text":"one chain not anymore you basically use like one two five chains whatever and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6822s"},{"start_seconds":6830,"text":"yeah I mean for the bridges uh I like like one of the quotes it's not related to the blockchain bridges but it fits","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6830s"},{"start_seconds":6838,"text":"actually really well by American comedian Jerry Seinfeld who was saying like nobody wants to build a bridge it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6838s"},{"start_seconds":6846,"text":"really really hard uh so but we need to build it so actually Community they are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6846s"},{"start_seconds":6853,"text":"able to you know like get all the beauty and all the features of the block chains of different blockchains to have like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6853s"},{"start_seconds":6861,"text":"one echo system that interconnected that is secure so it's in some sense it's blockchain of blockchains","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6861s"},{"start_seconds":6870,"text":"for us I think a bit television um composer what really excites us is to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6870s"},{"start_seconds":6877,"text":"become invisible I think we we want this to get the best from web 2 in web 3.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6877s"},{"start_seconds":6884,"text":"this idea of truly intervaliability where the user doesn't really need to understand what's going on what's going on under a hood and things just work I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6884s"},{"start_seconds":6893,"text":"think when when these panels you know don't exist anymore our work has probably been done the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6893s"},{"start_seconds":6901,"text":"right way and then we can think of something bigger but it's a hard problem right now that we're putting a lot of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6901s"},{"start_seconds":6909,"text":"effort onto improving awesome thank you so much um so big round of applause for our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6909s"},{"start_seconds":6917,"text":"panelists thank you um and um we have just about like five minutes if some of you want to come up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6917s"},{"start_seconds":6925,"text":"uh to ask a question we have this mic right up here um and uh please feel free to pop up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6925s"},{"start_seconds":6933,"text":"um yeah do you have a question yeah I have um yeah I have a lot of thoughts on this the uh the gentleman in the middle that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6933s"},{"start_seconds":6940,"text":"just suggested like a blockchain of blockchains I actually work for that project that's been built uh all the bridges are root cryptographically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6940s"},{"start_seconds":6948,"text":"secure on both sides um and the first bridge is live on the ethereum test net now and it goes live at mainnet in about two weeks time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6948s"},{"start_seconds":6957,"text":"straight after the merge the Project's called Veris v-e-r-u-s dot IO it means truth the lead","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6957s"},{"start_seconds":6964,"text":"Dev was the CTO of Microsoft for advertising one of 22 technical fellows in the history of Microsoft he","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6964s"},{"start_seconds":6971,"text":"architected and built.net which is the world's largest virtual machine and argues that that is the wrong design for blockchains so just to go back a step if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6971s"},{"start_seconds":6980,"text":"you use the company like Starbucks for example they're a perfect use case for web3 they have a huge loyalty uh yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6980s"},{"start_seconds":6988,"text":"you know branded loyalty uh currency through their gift cards with billions of value that they can't put on there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6988s"},{"start_seconds":6995,"text":"on the a balance sheet but but under a community currency they could right and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=6995s"},{"start_seconds":7003,"text":"if that Community currency was fully fungible with Nike's and whatnot and they were all interoperable that would be basically the the use case of web3 so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7003s"},{"start_seconds":7011,"text":"that's exactly what we facilitate um but I don't think a company like Nike","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7011s"},{"start_seconds":7018,"text":"or like uh Starbucks are going to participate in an ecosystem that has smart contract risk that has Mev that has front running that has back running","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7018s"},{"start_seconds":7027,"text":"so all of those things need to be dealt with before you're going to get proper actualization of web 3 and I think saying to a hacker that could potential","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7027s"},{"start_seconds":7036,"text":"whose potential upside is you know millions of dollars of value hey we're not you know you give up that value but get the recognition and do it for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7036s"},{"start_seconds":7043,"text":"right reasons I just don't see that happening and you know how much money should a company spend on audits like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7043s"},{"start_seconds":7051,"text":"it's very common for a company to do three audits I'm still there to be a smart contract bug so or you know an exploit like it's you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7051s"},{"start_seconds":7059,"text":"know how much do they how much should they spend of the money that they raise or that they generate or whatever to security if if the underlying uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7059s"},{"start_seconds":7067,"text":"protocol is flawed so I would love to speak to all of you but you were basically outlines what we've created it's been four or five years in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7067s"},{"start_seconds":7074,"text":"making and it's it's basically Fully live at mainnet in the next two weeks so varus.io if anyone wants to look it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7074s"},{"start_seconds":7083,"text":"up or speak to me I'm around um yeah so if we talk about uh uh if I get your question correctly so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7083s"},{"start_seconds":7092,"text":"um um yeah of course if you build the bridges between let's say two different protocols and some of the protocols they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7092s"},{"start_seconds":7100,"text":"have its own vulnerability for sure it's um for you a question how do you address this uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7100s"},{"start_seconds":7108,"text":"do you want to add okay yeah so so what we actually do is again it's beyond my technical understanding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7108s"},{"start_seconds":7117,"text":"uh that that once you get into the Super technicals of this but um there are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7117s"},{"start_seconds":7124,"text":"validations that happen on both sides that need to be uh uh that needs to be approved you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7124s"},{"start_seconds":7132,"text":"before uh the the the the bridge can function and it's not just trusting an oracle or a smart contract that can be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7132s"},{"start_seconds":7140,"text":"duped it's actually root cryptographically secured so I'm saying we've built the solution I'm not asking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7140s"},{"start_seconds":7147,"text":"necessarily the question I'm just you know saying that like I don't think what you outlined with the uh the white hat","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7147s"},{"start_seconds":7155,"text":"program is going to work and I think that you know people much smarter than me have have come up with a really robust solution and I'd love to share it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7155s"},{"start_seconds":7162,"text":"with you you described it when you told when you spoke about so when you spoke about a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7162s"},{"start_seconds":7170,"text":"blockchain of blockchains that's exactly what it is and so anyone can bridge to Varys and every anyone that does bridge to Varys has safe secure um and safe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7170s"},{"start_seconds":7180,"text":"interoperability with any other chain that the network touches so the more people that bridge to it the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7180s"},{"start_seconds":7188,"text":"the system itself is is fully interoperable but any other bridges that so say you know polygon makes a bridge then um whatever Solana makes a bridge then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7188s"},{"start_seconds":7196,"text":"Nia makes a bridge now now if you're a polygon you can now bridge to those blockchains as well super secure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7196s"},{"start_seconds":7205,"text":"yeah yeah I I get this uh it's nice to hear that you are building such a project and yeah um with regards to your comments uh on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7205s"},{"start_seconds":7214,"text":"the white hat on the recognition and funds I think it actually makes a lot of sense because as I mentioned previously if you're a black hat well you can get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7214s"},{"start_seconds":7222,"text":"something hacked but it's not just like in the real world that if you've stolen some funds that you will be able to use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7222s"},{"start_seconds":7229,"text":"it so some of the black hats we can see like historically they are holding their value like not moving for years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7229s"},{"start_seconds":7237,"text":"and uh it depends on your goal if you really want to commit uh to like a good and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7237s"},{"start_seconds":7244,"text":"bright future of the blockchain but also in order to get some recognition to get like some financing it's better to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7244s"},{"start_seconds":7252,"text":"whiteheads in like of course this depends a lot of the projects so if some projects they announce like a huge","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7252s"},{"start_seconds":7259,"text":"Bounty but then they are not paying it out for some reasons then of course people will not commit any more to this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7259s"},{"start_seconds":7267,"text":"program there will be it's it's hard to attract people to actually participate in the program but yeah you need to do your best and there's also a question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7267s"},{"start_seconds":7276,"text":"that um you need to try to ensure some fans of the users uh like for example we all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7276s"},{"start_seconds":7282,"text":"we have some projects on Aurora that are Insurance used in France unfortunately we were not able to find some partner","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7282s"},{"start_seconds":7290,"text":"who is able to ensure all the funds locked on a rainbow bridge but yeah if anyone I like is willing to participate","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7290s"},{"start_seconds":7298,"text":"we will be open and really happy to have it yeah I think what you just said is is interesting and I think there's some validity to that but ultimately comes back to my last point about big Brands","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7298s"},{"start_seconds":7307,"text":"just not going to trust the technology where there's those kind of vulnerabilities and I think you know we need to look for better Solutions and you know as I said I'm part of a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7307s"},{"start_seconds":7316,"text":"community that I think has has uh actually solved this problem so I'd love to share with you guys offline or as I said if anyone wants to speak to me I'm around","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7316s"},{"start_seconds":7324,"text":"all right awesome thank you for that um unfortunately we're out of time but if you have questions for the panelists","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7324s"},{"start_seconds":7332,"text":"you know where to find them um all right well I wanted to say thank you again for this amazing conversation and obviously if you all are interested","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7332s"},{"start_seconds":7341,"text":"in bridges these are some wonderful people to speak with so thank you again and one more round of applause","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7341s"},{"start_seconds":7349,"text":"yeah thank you thank you thank you guys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7349s"},{"start_seconds":7375,"text":"hey thank each of you for coming up and discussing what is certainly one of the most Salient topics in the space right now uh definitely holding us back a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7375s"},{"start_seconds":7384,"text":"little bit um so up next we have Lindsey Crawford of proximity labs along with some of the most exciting D5","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7384s"},{"start_seconds":7393,"text":"projects building on near right now discussing the topic of building a defy ecosystem on near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7393s"},{"start_seconds":7423,"text":"foreign thank you for coming to listen and on a little bit of what we're doing um for near defy and joining me up here will be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7423s"},{"start_seconds":7433,"text":"Arjun and the CEO is it is there an echo no okay um the CEO Owen head of partnership sub","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7433s"},{"start_seconds":7440,"text":"orderly networks um as well as d-rob Bora who is the co-founder of stator labs","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7440s"},{"start_seconds":7447,"text":"um Didier Perroni is the product manager at rev Finance um and Igor um multiple hats founder and CEO of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7447s"},{"start_seconds":7455,"text":"pemrack and as well as Works closely with ink C4 come on up","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7455s"},{"start_seconds":7472,"text":"hey so I wanted to start off with first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7472s"},{"start_seconds":7479,"text":"diving into a little bit about your backgrounds as well as defining defy for members in the crowd that maybe are newer to the space or newer to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7479s"},{"start_seconds":7488,"text":"nuances so let's start with you Arjun I actually can't hear you I'm sorry sorry I can't hear you you can't hear me","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7488s"},{"start_seconds":7496,"text":"no okay I know that they were having a little bit of an issue earlier with us let's see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7496s"},{"start_seconds":7506,"text":"how are you I don't think they're able to hear","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7506s"},{"start_seconds":7514,"text":"are you able to hear now yeah just slightly louder okay um so specifically um understanding a little bit of what you're building as well as uh your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7514s"},{"start_seconds":7523,"text":"definition on of D5 okay so um my name is Arjun and really nice to be here with all of these guys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7523s"},{"start_seconds":7530,"text":"uh we are building orderly Network we're a modular order book decks built on top of near we're looking to build uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7530s"},{"start_seconds":7538,"text":"infrastructure or as I like to call it looking to build the plumbing underneath the D5 ecosystem on there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7538s"},{"start_seconds":7546,"text":"great and then D Raj um we'd love to hear a little bit about what you're working on hey guys this is David I'm one of the co-founders of stereo","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7546s"},{"start_seconds":7554,"text":"protocol we are a multi-chain liquid sticking protocol we build liquid sticking Staples Structured Products on top of staking across six blockchains uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7554s"},{"start_seconds":7563,"text":"nearest the latest blockchain that we've launched on and we have about 120 million dollars in dvl today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7563s"},{"start_seconds":7570,"text":"and Didier um what are you working on at ref yeah well I'm the project manager of refinance which is the first automated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7570s"},{"start_seconds":7579,"text":"Market maker within the entire near ecosystem and uh yeah really really glad to Define ourselves as the One-Stop shop","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7579s"},{"start_seconds":7588,"text":"for D5 products on your protocol great um and Igor","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7588s"},{"start_seconds":7596,"text":"what are you working on at pen Rock hi everyone I'm doing blockchain development and thing four and we are the team who bring to you Pembroke","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7596s"},{"start_seconds":7604,"text":"Finance which is first leverage yield farming protocol on near um and just a little bit Arjun diving","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7604s"},{"start_seconds":7612,"text":"into defy itself um would you mind describing kind of your version of defy and then what orderly is doing just to solve","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7612s"},{"start_seconds":7620,"text":"it's a good question so the way I see Defy is an opportunity for everyone to control their finances","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7620s"},{"start_seconds":7628,"text":"um and that's a very high level and easy way in some very something very easy to say um but coming back to your question in terms of what orderly you're doing we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7628s"},{"start_seconds":7636,"text":"trying to create the efficiency and the structure and the infrastructure specifically for other projects to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7636s"},{"start_seconds":7644,"text":"able to supply ease of access when it comes to defy to mass Market retail great and then at stator what are you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7644s"},{"start_seconds":7653,"text":"guys doing uh for D5 I mean liquid staking is is obviously a very Capital efficient","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7653s"},{"start_seconds":7659,"text":"efficient enabling move uh on a ecosystem like on near where about 45 of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7659s"},{"start_seconds":7667,"text":"of the near is Stig that's a lot of near that state and not accessible to defy so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7667s"},{"start_seconds":7673,"text":"uh with Solutions like ours we introduce Capital efficiency we introduce portion of that 45 percent of veneers take to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7673s"},{"start_seconds":7682,"text":"also be able to interact with other D5 protocols and um that's probably the singular biggest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7682s"},{"start_seconds":7688,"text":"uh D5 volume driver uh and and I see us as the enabler for that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7688s"},{"start_seconds":7695,"text":"an Igor passing the mic yeah well I think one of the key value propositions of D5 is basically how easily do you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7695s"},{"start_seconds":7704,"text":"have access to the solution right without asking any permissions and then that's the first thing and then the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7704s"},{"start_seconds":7712,"text":"second problem to solve is basically um how do you provide well for ref good prices right but I think for orderly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7712s"},{"start_seconds":7720,"text":"it's also the same problem to solve because at the end of The Journey you're basically competing with you know binance coinbase for prices so I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7720s"},{"start_seconds":7730,"text":"the first problem to solve is yeah how easily people do have access to your products then how good your prices are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7730s"},{"start_seconds":7738,"text":"and yeah if you have this I would say for I mean strong base then then you can think about how can you attract you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7738s"},{"start_seconds":7747,"text":"new users so yeah um and for Arjun if we're thinking about the General near ecosystem and and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7747s"},{"start_seconds":7755,"text":"staying competitive how do you think near itself will attract more users specifically to defy","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7755s"},{"start_seconds":7763,"text":"so it's for Europe the system it's like different every ecosystem is way different nearest good for defy mostly","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7763s"},{"start_seconds":7770,"text":"because it's fast it's secure usually it comes to user-friendly experience at all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7770s"},{"start_seconds":7778,"text":"part of your building either you are building Builder or you are a user who just want to jump in defy because like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7778s"},{"start_seconds":7785,"text":"the files finance and decentralized no single point of failure fast transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7785s"},{"start_seconds":7791,"text":"time scaling sharding and it's still small town with family like culture you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7791s"},{"start_seconds":7800,"text":"can pin people who are doing refinance leverage token order book you want you have everybody in the same place and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7800s"},{"start_seconds":7808,"text":"it's still easier to access if you will compare to other ecosystem everybody is like high level business stuff so here is really friendly or is a really fast","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7808s"},{"start_seconds":7817,"text":"good looking nice account structure easy to use you can have Mobile Wallet metamask wallet Ledger stuff whatever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7817s"},{"start_seconds":7825,"text":"stuff you want yeah and Arjun what's your take on that as far as the near ecosystem and how to attract additional users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7825s"},{"start_seconds":7834,"text":"so I think ease of access is the most important piece um I think we're doing a good job as a broader ecosystem to to provide those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7834s"},{"start_seconds":7842,"text":"world of tools but we're probably the very very early phase of what that look looks like my take is we're doing a very good job","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7842s"},{"start_seconds":7850,"text":"towards that I'll use ref as an example right like if you were to go and look at like the top D5 protocols across the other largest chains like some of them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7850s"},{"start_seconds":7858,"text":"look great but you look at the newest UI upgrades on ref like in my opinion they're Flawless like those are the things that are going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7858s"},{"start_seconds":7867,"text":"bring retail in terms of ability to be able to use it but there's obviously a marketing job um there's an infrastructure piece it's all great having the best UI but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7867s"},{"start_seconds":7875,"text":"back end needs to be fantastic and Flawless as well we need to deliver the right type of product engineer as far as your response to that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7875s"},{"start_seconds":7883,"text":"specifically with rev obviously your UI ux is incredible so um how are you bringing users to use such a user-friendly application","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7883s"},{"start_seconds":7891,"text":"well yeah that's a good question I I think Forest there's really three pieces the first one is yeah uh basically","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7891s"},{"start_seconds":7898,"text":"prices how good are our prices then the second one is obviously the the quality","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7898s"},{"start_seconds":7906,"text":"of the infrastructure right and to attract new users we need to incentivize people to you know try the products and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7906s"},{"start_seconds":7914,"text":"potentially create a network effect so I think liquidity is a big um you know elsewhere within the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7914s"},{"start_seconds":7920,"text":"ecosystem even I guess the ecosystem is turning uh to a new point at the moment with less incentive right but I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7920s"},{"start_seconds":7929,"text":"this is still a key piece of the ecosystem and then how easy people can build on top of us to create new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7929s"},{"start_seconds":7936,"text":"products right like yield farming is such a great example what Pembroke is doing on top of Finance for example but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7936s"},{"start_seconds":7943,"text":"we have so many things right so for refinance from our perspective it's you know the SDK like the software","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7943s"},{"start_seconds":7951,"text":"development kit and how good it is and then people can just create on top of us many verticals right so but once you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7951s"},{"start_seconds":7959,"text":"once you bring like new users then the question is how do you retain them how do you avoid uh you know churn and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7959s"},{"start_seconds":7966,"text":"think this is also like a good question right because we are still so early um I'm thinking about I think at ref we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7966s"},{"start_seconds":7974,"text":"have in total more than 100 000 new unique users since Inception but when you have a look at Instagram at you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7974s"},{"start_seconds":7983,"text":"know the creation of Instagram it was 100 000 users new users per week right so I think we need to to be humble","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7983s"},{"start_seconds":7990,"text":"compared to web 2 and it still very early but uh yeah we definitely need those numbers to go ahead right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7990s"},{"start_seconds":7999,"text":"um in Igor for your perspective what does that look like as far as converting web2 users to web3 and how do you do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=7999s"},{"start_seconds":8007,"text":"that within D5 yeah so while we onboard new users there is like a lot of types of what you call","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8007s"},{"start_seconds":8013,"text":"new users there's the users inside in your ecosystem which just never interacted with our product without with our protocol there is the users in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8013s"},{"start_seconds":8021,"text":"Webster ecosystem which never interacted either with near or our protocol answer is users who are familiar with web 2 and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8021s"},{"start_seconds":8029,"text":"they are familiar with all the world around them but never encountered crypto and for every this group there is a different scenario and there is a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8029s"},{"start_seconds":8038,"text":"different approach while we're talking about people in web 2 they're familiar with financial system everybody use loans everybody use deposits everybody","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8038s"},{"start_seconds":8046,"text":"have some yields credit score ranking they can borrow Capital they are familiar with trading infrastructure a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8046s"},{"start_seconds":8054,"text":"lot of people made money on stock a lot of people familiar with Robin Hood and usually you try to show them that crypto","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8054s"},{"start_seconds":8061,"text":"is it's the same but decentralized more secure more transparent with everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8061s"},{"start_seconds":8067,"text":"controlled by you this is the main idea why we make this Finance decentralized we do want to remove single point of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8067s"},{"start_seconds":8075,"text":"failure and we want to make everything work on Smart contract player on validators layer on the layer of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8075s"},{"start_seconds":8083,"text":"components which could not fail and you can use them with without any with without asking permission without asking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8083s"},{"start_seconds":8092,"text":"for their work and schedule except Solana without asking like do I need to have passport nationality credit card whatever stuff you need to have access","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8092s"},{"start_seconds":8101,"text":"to your whatever seat phrase Ledger anyway you can sign transaction you can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8101s"},{"start_seconds":8109,"text":"interact with near protocol and moreover you do not need to waste enormous amount of time it's really fast it's really transparent and it's really user","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8109s"},{"start_seconds":8117,"text":"understandable so how to import web 2 people to webstree usually through education materials you just show them","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8117s"},{"start_seconds":8124,"text":"that this is the same but better you want to have a loan you go to a bank you provide some kind of collateral and you get additional money you want to have a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8124s"},{"start_seconds":8133,"text":"loan you go to any Landing protocol provide collateral borrow something against this is part of Pembroke mechanics you can provide your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8133s"},{"start_seconds":8141,"text":"Bitcoin as collateral you can borrow ethereum Pembroke usn put it in stake in in farming rewards in refinance make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8141s"},{"start_seconds":8149,"text":"some guilt have profit return your collateral you can do the same with orderly you want to have exposure to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8149s"},{"start_seconds":8157,"text":"near but you a little bit shy so you go to lending protocol put I know you want Bitcoin as collateral you want Tesla","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8157s"},{"start_seconds":8165,"text":"escalator borrow one year go to air orderly execute your strategy based on it you can I know long short wherever","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8165s"},{"start_seconds":8173,"text":"you want to do but this is full Financial system with same banks with same collaterals with same assets with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8173s"},{"start_seconds":8181,"text":"same Equity but everything what going on controlled by you it's regulated in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8181s"},{"start_seconds":8188,"text":"good way it's do not have enormous limitation like you can just draw no more than 100 bucks from ATM machine in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8188s"},{"start_seconds":8196,"text":"some country you need to go to bank exactly and working hours you need to sign an almost amount of papers like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8196s"},{"start_seconds":8203,"text":"your whole family allow you to do this this is fast convenient transparent you just need to show to web to people what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8203s"},{"start_seconds":8211,"text":"they can do with this because sometimes you just do not know it yeah I think that was a great explanation for onboarding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8211s"},{"start_seconds":8219,"text":"um as far as comparing near to other chains and maybe why you pick near to build on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8219s"},{"start_seconds":8226,"text":"um what does that look like for you guys when you were making your decision for ref um you mean if we picked up why did we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8226s"},{"start_seconds":8235,"text":"pick up near correct so actually we didn't choose because uh Helia the well the founder of near started ref uh I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8235s"},{"start_seconds":8243,"text":"guess because trading um cryptos is potentially the second primitive after the blockchain right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8243s"},{"start_seconds":8252,"text":"you can send receive any token the native token but then the second use case is usually how can you you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8252s"},{"start_seconds":8260,"text":"swap one token for another so Elia created ref uh more than one year ago to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8260s"},{"start_seconds":8266,"text":"create I guess this first vertical so we inherited ref uh but I guess yeah the near from a user perspective two things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8266s"},{"start_seconds":8275,"text":"right it's very cheap and it's very fast like one two two second finality so the user experience is very different and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8275s"},{"start_seconds":8284,"text":"from a builder perspective I would say well the community is really amazing and because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8284s"},{"start_seconds":8291,"text":"I guess till the beginning there's a lot of communication going through uh projects so you have access to orderly you have access to Pembroke you have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8291s"},{"start_seconds":8299,"text":"access to you know neighborhood projects which makes it a very friendly ecosystem because it's still young right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8299s"},{"start_seconds":8308,"text":"um yeah that's my answer then how are you building that community that you obviously it's going quite well but then how do you kind of continue that growth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8308s"},{"start_seconds":8316,"text":"what does that look like well I'm not sure to have the right answer to that but I guess it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8316s"},{"start_seconds":8323,"text":"kind of a philosophy and what I like within the near ecosystem is the give first approach someone is asking for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8323s"},{"start_seconds":8331,"text":"something someone is asking for your help give first and then we will see you know what happened next but I guess there is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8331s"},{"start_seconds":8339,"text":"this uh companionship which is very um yeah which I really like within the ecosystem so just give first when","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8339s"},{"start_seconds":8348,"text":"someone needs help make sure you can provide you know like a relevant elsewhere to that and that I guess that's That's How Strong communities can grow","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8348s"},{"start_seconds":8357,"text":"yeah that definitely builds trust um what about you Arjun for orderly how are you building Community what does that look like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8357s"},{"start_seconds":8365,"text":"so for us near feels like uh the most obvious and easy fit obviously orderly is incubated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8365s"},{"start_seconds":8372,"text":"by Wu network from the expertise on the trading side and then we get the expertise from Ilia and the rest of the the near team in terms of how we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8372s"},{"start_seconds":8381,"text":"scale a central limit order book","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8381s"},{"start_seconds":8383,"text":"um no different to didier's comment in terms of experience it's fast it's cheap it's secure and it scales","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8383s"},{"start_seconds":8391,"text":"for us coming back to your original question the second one regarding like bringing users the users that require the functionality","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8391s"},{"start_seconds":8400,"text":"for a central limit order book can't sit there and wait for a trade uh they can't wait for optimal gas they need to be able to do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8400s"},{"start_seconds":8409,"text":"it in micro a milliseconds nears the clear obvious choice to support that infrastructure but of course allow the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8409s"},{"start_seconds":8416,"text":"experience for those users brought it um and as far as kind of going down the Dow Rabbit Hole","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8416s"},{"start_seconds":8425,"text":"um what does that look like for you building out a dow with pemrock do you have any tips or advice or kind of a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8425s"},{"start_seconds":8432,"text":"road map that you've used yourself only start of our story because though but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8432s"},{"start_seconds":8440,"text":"for it's a middle part between fully centralized to fully decentralized because right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8440s"},{"start_seconds":8448,"text":"pembroke's still controlled by team yes we have pretty fresh project we fundraised literally this February March so we are on our roadmap and we are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8448s"},{"start_seconds":8457,"text":"building something and to build everything fast yes smart contracts is then centralized near is decentralized ever since there but there is still Keys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8457s"},{"start_seconds":8466,"text":"who can upload something who can make changes to contract and while you want to go fast and while you're building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8466s"},{"start_seconds":8473,"text":"something you need to have some kind of strong hand and Leadership to figure out what you are doing and how you are doing but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8473s"},{"start_seconds":8480,"text":"for Next Period of time I'm not the one who know everything and usually having a lot of smart head is way better than","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8480s"},{"start_seconds":8489,"text":"have one smart guy so we want to have a Dao and we want to onboard the smartest people in industry or the smartest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8489s"},{"start_seconds":8498,"text":"people who are willing to work with leverage yield farming and we want them to make proposal suggestion decision and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8498s"},{"start_seconds":8506,"text":"we want them to communicate because right now Pembroke team is the only team who are making decision do we want to have usn on board or not do you want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8506s"},{"start_seconds":8515,"text":"have stable pools or not do we want to have stake at liquids taken we want to have exposure to other currency we are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8515s"},{"start_seconds":8523,"text":"taking this decision based on our expertise but our expertise is not the final amount it's just like average like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8523s"},{"start_seconds":8530,"text":"for okay like smart people but average smart people and we want to make other people have option to put a suggestion have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8530s"},{"start_seconds":8538,"text":"option to vote something have ocean to veto something and there is like it's not something in the like wherever we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8538s"},{"start_seconds":8546,"text":"want to do in 20 years it's taking decision on an action-based plan so we have Community rewards we have reward distribution schedule we have down","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8546s"},{"start_seconds":8555,"text":"synthesization and they can do the tutorial right now so they want to work for some kind of marketing initiatives they want to develop","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8555s"},{"start_seconds":8563,"text":"something they want to provide a grant for somebody and it working so it's part from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8563s"},{"start_seconds":8571,"text":"centralized system to fully decentralized system and the journey goes down what about you for stator what does that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8571s"},{"start_seconds":8579,"text":"look like kind of your definition of a Dao and um yeah um well I think Dao means different things for different people and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8579s"},{"start_seconds":8586,"text":"different protocols uh my opinion of a Dao is it's a place to be heard right it's a place for people to put their points out","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8586s"},{"start_seconds":8594,"text":"unfortunately I think that was across other blockchains in particular they aren't where they need to be they're in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8594s"},{"start_seconds":8601,"text":"serving the purpose uh they ought to one of the things that we have done at stator although we do not have an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8601s"},{"start_seconds":8608,"text":"official doubt for it is uh you know we are always led by our community we very very carefully listen to uh you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8608s"},{"start_seconds":8617,"text":"what's happening on telegram on on Discord on Twitter and in fact half of status features are driven by community","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8617s"},{"start_seconds":8625,"text":"at this point so uh that's that's essentially my definition of Tao","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8625s"},{"start_seconds":8632,"text":"how about for you Arjun the beginning piece is exactly how I feel like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8632s"},{"start_seconds":8639,"text":"you have community members token holders core contributors Dow contributors they all fit within a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8639s"},{"start_seconds":8647,"text":"dow but don't necessarily mean the same thing um and it's really important especially in the beginning exactly as their Arch management is listening uh to the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8647s"},{"start_seconds":8656,"text":"community um but also not letting it slow you down I think it's very very easy to have a large amount of potential token holders","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8656s"},{"start_seconds":8664,"text":"or interested community members that can potentially guide you away or create noise create chaos towards your soul goal","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8664s"},{"start_seconds":8673,"text":"um I'm a very fond believer of progressive governance um especially depending on the protocols especially within defiant delegated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8673s"},{"start_seconds":8681,"text":"governance um there are a lot more smarter people out there that can make better decisions for the protocol than me as an example I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8681s"},{"start_seconds":8690,"text":"would love to delegate my voting rights in the hands of somebody else who can make those more informed decisions and I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8690s"},{"start_seconds":8697,"text":"we love the idea within web 3 of being able to vote being really really small or really really big and having that opportunity to vote but we also have to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8697s"},{"start_seconds":8706,"text":"be really thoughtful and really mindful about what that really means especially when we're talking about the the future of what tvl for a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8706s"},{"start_seconds":8713,"text":"protocol might look like future decisions future listings future direction of billion future billion dollar companies um and I think putting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8713s"},{"start_seconds":8722,"text":"control in the hands of the right type of people whilst or at least sorry given the opportunity to people to give","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8722s"},{"start_seconds":8730,"text":"control to the right type of people to make more informed decisions is what I see as Progressive doubt I know we have a few minutes left here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8730s"},{"start_seconds":8738,"text":"I'd love to hear um what you think is missing in the near defy ecosystem what do we still need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8738s"},{"start_seconds":8745,"text":"have Builders doing on on your D5 users we are working users so if you use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8745s"},{"start_seconds":8752,"text":"Pembroke Finance just raise your hand if you use Pembroke Finance okay it's good it's good who of you use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8752s"},{"start_seconds":8759,"text":"uh refinance should be like way more uh same people okay like I see you and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8759s"},{"start_seconds":8766,"text":"I completely sure that a lot of you will use ordle in future or liquids taking protocol so we are liking users because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8766s"},{"start_seconds":8773,"text":"this this is not like full room and we need to work hard about our like marketing materials about our coverage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8773s"},{"start_seconds":8782,"text":"because as technology as base level near is already good there is a lot of unrealized potential technology is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8782s"},{"start_seconds":8791,"text":"awesome we need to push a little bit harder on marketing we need to push a little bit harder about knowledge because I I cannot compare it with like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8791s"},{"start_seconds":8800,"text":"literally no competitors Bitcoin slow ethereum expensive binance machine is a joke you don't like you don't go with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8800s"},{"start_seconds":8807,"text":"your friends validator salana is you know it it is what it is other blockchain like Carolyn already that so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8807s"},{"start_seconds":8815,"text":"near is like the best blockchain to do something fast scalable ordinarily is the only blockchain which is possible","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8815s"},{"start_seconds":8821,"text":"it's near because you do it you cannot run order book with small transaction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8821s"},{"start_seconds":8828,"text":"you will have transactions like 0.00 I know like four zeros or eight zeros like they will trade Satoshi to move satosha","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8828s"},{"start_seconds":8836,"text":"ethereum you need to pay like a fortune you can do it on binance but it's not like it's not decentralized it's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8836s"},{"start_seconds":8843,"text":"secure you can call your friends and do this this and this so near is a great technology level I'm really fascinated","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8843s"},{"start_seconds":8851,"text":"by idea of having all the regional hubs to integrate with all this stuff so we just need to import users we are liking this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8851s"},{"start_seconds":8859,"text":"I agree yeah I agree with ego I think we have like great use cases new use cases like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8859s"},{"start_seconds":8866,"text":"sweat you know lifestyle uh world to learn we have also a great infrastructure for institutions for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8866s"},{"start_seconds":8874,"text":"analytics right I want to have a better understanding of my market what's my user base how much in average my user","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8874s"},{"start_seconds":8882,"text":"are spending and we have those answers and I think that's we stand out too um on on on the data and analytics side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8882s"},{"start_seconds":8890,"text":"and uh yeah I think we're getting better at solving problems right so uh refinance for example we just that's how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8890s"},{"start_seconds":8898,"text":"that's our New York on surprise but we just released the concentrated liquidity feature one hour ago on test Nets congratulations","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8898s"},{"start_seconds":8907,"text":"um so yeah I think we're getting better at you know optimizing liquidity but there is one there is one piece that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8907s"},{"start_seconds":8914,"text":"cannot control which is resilience so etherum they have you know ethereum was created 10 years ago and people well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8914s"},{"start_seconds":8923,"text":"this thing has been existing for 10 years near has been existing for two years and a half so how resilient are we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8923s"},{"start_seconds":8931,"text":"and I think this depends on a function of time so we just need also to to be a bit more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8931s"},{"start_seconds":8938,"text":"patient to demonstrate that near is a resilient ecosystem yes I fully agree with that well we are at time thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8938s"},{"start_seconds":8946,"text":"all so much for your expertise um and that's what's happening with near defy right now and lots lots of good","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8946s"},{"start_seconds":8953,"text":"stuff to come so thank you for listening thanks guys thank you guys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8953s"},{"start_seconds":8965,"text":"cool thank each and every one of you for coming up here and uh shedding some light on what you're building as well as uh sharing your thoughts on the current","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8965s"},{"start_seconds":8973,"text":"climate of building defy on near um up next I would like to introduce another wonderful human being you may","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8973s"},{"start_seconds":8980,"text":"have heard of him who will be discussing the topic of the Road to Mass adoption bridging nfts to web 2 audiences Eric","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8980s"},{"start_seconds":8988,"text":"Troutman","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8988s"},{"start_seconds":8996,"text":"thank you so about a year ago me and a bunch of other people stood on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=8996s"},{"start_seconds":9003,"text":"a stage down the street and we talked about how the five-year goal for the near ecosystem is to bring in a billion","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9003s"},{"start_seconds":9011,"text":"people at this point we we have four years left to go and we've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9011s"},{"start_seconds":9019,"text":"made some progress but we have a long way to go um so what I want to talk about today we've spent a lot of time talking about technology which makes sense given that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9019s"},{"start_seconds":9027,"text":"this is a core technology but I want to kind of pop up a little bit and think a little bit more about who is actually going to be using this technology and look at things a little bit more from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9027s"},{"start_seconds":9035,"text":"the user perspective so for debate we don't have a lot of time but I want to give a little bit of a high level","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9035s"},{"start_seconds":9042,"text":"overview of of what is the the landscape that gets us to Consumer adoption what are the components that we need to produce and what are the things that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9042s"},{"start_seconds":9050,"text":"should probably be innovating in that we may or may not be doing right now um so the first thing I want to communicate is that mass adoption is a growth problem which I think is pretty","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9050s"},{"start_seconds":9059,"text":"obvious but um growth growth is a word that comes up a lot in web 2 but we don't actually talk about it a whole lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9059s"},{"start_seconds":9066,"text":"in web 3 in quite the same way so as I mentioned we had a goal but what this takes is you have to onboard a lot of users and it's more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9066s"},{"start_seconds":9073,"text":"than just onboarding users you actually have to retain users as well and it's really easy to draw an exponential chart and and say oh look","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9073s"},{"start_seconds":9082,"text":"what Facebook did look what Dropbox did and we'll do it too but this takes a lot of work there are a lot of details that you need to get right if we want to make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9082s"},{"start_seconds":9089,"text":"this happen and so I think my key point is that macro adoption is actually a series of micro level battles and those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9089s"},{"start_seconds":9097,"text":"micro level battles occur in the funnels and so everyone is seeing the user funnel your funnel might vary but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9097s"},{"start_seconds":9104,"text":"basically the point of the funnel as you bring a user through your product you obviously have to start with acquisition but then there's an onboarding stage you have to figure out how do you engage the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9104s"},{"start_seconds":9113,"text":"users how do you retain the users and ultimately hopefully you can get a referral back up to the top so they're referring their friends and they're bringing in new people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9113s"},{"start_seconds":9121,"text":"um the problem is that every single stage of that funnel where you lose users has a multiplier effect and you can't actually retain users we can't get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9121s"},{"start_seconds":9129,"text":"to a billion users if any of the stages of that funnel across the ecosystem are leaky and right now we have a lot of problems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9129s"},{"start_seconds":9136,"text":"luckily web3 has a few advantages and nfts is actually one of the one of the coolest web 3 Primitives and it's one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9136s"},{"start_seconds":9144,"text":"that I don't think is going anywhere because in a lot of ways it's actually kind of the glue that holds together every stage of the funnel you can use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9144s"},{"start_seconds":9151,"text":"nfts for everything from acquiring new users for pfp projects nfts are basically you know the kind of the main event it's what people go out of their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9151s"},{"start_seconds":9160,"text":"way to capture but in a lot of other use cases nfts are kind of sidecars they're they're companion packs that you get alongside say purchasing a ticket to an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9160s"},{"start_seconds":9169,"text":"event but the cool thing about an nft is that it the reason why it's useful is it provides a future utility it provides it's sort of a container that has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9169s"},{"start_seconds":9178,"text":"potential and potential energy and at some point down the road someone else can add utility to that nft or the sponsoring project can add utility to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9178s"},{"start_seconds":9186,"text":"that nft and that's that makes it much more attractive for the users and so if you kind of look at every stage of that funnel nfts kind of show up at each of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9186s"},{"start_seconds":9195,"text":"those stages and they're useful to help bring the users through that funnel um but one of the common misconceptions","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9195s"},{"start_seconds":9202,"text":"and it's one that we've we've gotten into a lot in crypto is that acquisition is not the same thing as growth growth is sort of a full round trip cycle","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9202s"},{"start_seconds":9210,"text":"acquisition is just one stage of the funnel we've all seen Ponzi mechanics it's one of the things that's worked great so far in crypto at least in terms","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9210s"},{"start_seconds":9218,"text":"of top line numbers right um it's it's effectively sacrificing everything from the retention side to create some sort of feedback loop where","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9218s"},{"start_seconds":9226,"text":"everybody gets Rich it's free beer free money and it's worked out it worked out in very interesting ways in defy and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9226s"},{"start_seconds":9234,"text":"don't want to hate on it entirely because I think it's actually it does it's it's one of the most powerful forces for bringing in new users and it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9234s"},{"start_seconds":9243,"text":"actually convinces though it's so powerful that it makes the users go through so much pain and suffering in the onboarding stages because the Hook","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9243s"},{"start_seconds":9252,"text":"is so strong for for for getting them in there because they're all they all believe that they're gonna they're all gonna make some money on this um but in the end of the day it's actually Sugar","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9252s"},{"start_seconds":9260,"text":"High growth because as we've seen again and again and again you get these exponential curves up and what goes up comes right back down and in the end","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9260s"},{"start_seconds":9267,"text":"it's not actually sustainable growth so in a lot of ways it's much more like a sugar high and the people who come in through Ponzi mechanics generally aren't in it for the right reasons you don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9267s"},{"start_seconds":9276,"text":"build strong communities and the projects aren't creating this sustainable growth um fundamentally growth is actually a product problem and I think that's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9276s"},{"start_seconds":9283,"text":"that's actually what I'm kind of excited about is that in previous iterations in previous years we've spoken mostly about technology and it's a lot of fun to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9283s"},{"start_seconds":9290,"text":"able to talk about product more and more um and and so a much more sustainable look at growth comes at its core from having good products","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9290s"},{"start_seconds":9299,"text":"and so the ideal the ideal product is actually a product that has has a full good user experience through and through and then there's and then there's a referral loop on the back end of that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9299s"},{"start_seconds":9308,"text":"it's very simple it's a very simple idea it's extremely hard to execute because in order to get this right you have to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9308s"},{"start_seconds":9315,"text":"you have to get a user to come in you have to give them immediate value and then you have to convince them that it's so worthwhile that they're going to get some sort of future value or some sort","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9315s"},{"start_seconds":9323,"text":"of social reputational value through bringing their Network into the same product that they're willing to go out of their way to do that and that's really hard and there and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9323s"},{"start_seconds":9332,"text":"again like for every step that you make the user go through you're losing people you're losing I mean if the funnel is leaky you're not going to accomplish","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9332s"},{"start_seconds":9340,"text":"this and there's no way you're going to get a true viral growth um so in a lot of ways if we can unlock viral growth that's that's almost the holy grail for for proving that we've","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9340s"},{"start_seconds":9349,"text":"we're actually doing something right um the problem is that onboarding is awful onboarding is is the Bugaboo of the entire blockchain ecosystem it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9349s"},{"start_seconds":9358,"text":"definitely the weak point that we all have everyone here has probably had the experience of either yourself or trying to walk through someone you know through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9358s"},{"start_seconds":9366,"text":"the process of trying to use a new application and it's difficult it's painful people don't understand what's going on in the end of the day we all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9366s"},{"start_seconds":9373,"text":"have to acknowledge of course that web 2 people just don't have time or patience for this there's no way we're going to get to mass adoption if we if we make them go through the same stuff that we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9373s"},{"start_seconds":9381,"text":"have but the good side is on the on the bottom end of the funnel blockchain in web 3 it has a lot to offer on that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9381s"},{"start_seconds":9389,"text":"retention side that has a lot to offer for long-term engagement and that gets back to that idea of nfts as being sort of long-term value holding utility","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9389s"},{"start_seconds":9396,"text":"engines um because and it's kind of that you get back to like why are we using blockchain at all and part of that is you could it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9396s"},{"start_seconds":9405,"text":"allows you to build these permission lists value Stacks where other people can create value for your users just because they're holding your nfts I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9405s"},{"start_seconds":9413,"text":"that's really cool but we have to get people to that point um so I guess what I want to run through quickly here is is like what what does it take like what do we need as an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9413s"},{"start_seconds":9422,"text":"ecosystem in order to start to unlock some of these things um and so I think basically you need incentives you need components and you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9422s"},{"start_seconds":9429,"text":"need the right ux the incentives is not something I'm going to spend a lot of time on because that's going to vary depending on the product um so really in a lot of ways that's an entrepreneur's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9429s"},{"start_seconds":9438,"text":"problem it's figure out what are the incentives that make your products something people want but components the components that we need are essentially like the shared infrastructure that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9438s"},{"start_seconds":9447,"text":"allows us to even build experiences that people can use and that's that's basically about unlocking Builders so that they can actually create good experiences and then ux is about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9447s"},{"start_seconds":9455,"text":"unlocking the growth so that users can actually use those experiences which is a little bit different it's subtly different so to start with components","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9455s"},{"start_seconds":9464,"text":"from my perspective we'll know that we're successful as an ecosystem in our components when a hacker can drop into a hackathon and by the end of the weekend","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9464s"},{"start_seconds":9473,"text":"they will have mashed up a bunch of stuff dropped in a bunch of code Snippets and they have an effectively a production app by the end of a weekend and this this sort of takes you back to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9473s"},{"start_seconds":9482,"text":"the old API days right remember when twilio was out and stripe and all these other things and suddenly every hackathon it went from it went from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9482s"},{"start_seconds":9489,"text":"struggling with devops to like now hackers are actually building real applications by the end of the weekend I mean this is maybe 10 years ago and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9489s"},{"start_seconds":9496,"text":"so from my perspective like that's where we need to be if we're going to be successful competing with web 2 uh and then sort of building alongside web too","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9496s"},{"start_seconds":9505,"text":"to get where we want to go so there's no way you can read this slide but but the point is is sort of laying","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9505s"},{"start_seconds":9513,"text":"out all the little pieces all the little components along the way and this will be available online I'll I'll be putting this up on Twitter and in a blog post","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9513s"},{"start_seconds":9520,"text":"but if you look kind of from the top left to the bottom right it's basically that as a user travels through through an application they end up touching a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9520s"},{"start_seconds":9529,"text":"whole bunch of these different components so on the top left you're going to see things like nft minting and claiming and distribution and then they get the user comes in and they onboard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9529s"},{"start_seconds":9537,"text":"and then we need to figure out how do we create them accounts are we creating a semi-custodial accounts how do we get them to use those accounts for a single","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9537s"},{"start_seconds":9546,"text":"sign-on and then as we get deeper you get back to the back end of more less on the marketing side and more on the Community Management and engagement side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9546s"},{"start_seconds":9553,"text":"and you get things like Dows and and token getting access and things like that um and the point is that when we talk to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9553s"},{"start_seconds":9560,"text":"when I talk to Apple uh apps that are in teams that are building across the ecosystem everyone has some sort of pathway through each of these components","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9560s"},{"start_seconds":9568,"text":"that that constructs their app right so like if you're a pfp project you need to make sure that you get nfts in the hands of your users so that means they need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9568s"},{"start_seconds":9577,"text":"either buy those nfts on a primary Market they need to buy them on a secondary Marketplace you need to get them in your account somehow you need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9577s"},{"start_seconds":9584,"text":"get you need to make sure that they have access gating for some sort of community and then on the back end maybe that Community is run by a dow maybe it's not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9584s"},{"start_seconds":9593,"text":"same thing fan loyalty it's a very different type of use case it's more of a web 2 crossover use case because obviously this already exists in web 2","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9593s"},{"start_seconds":9601,"text":"and but you have kind of the same principles you want to get nfts minted alongside something that the the fans","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9601s"},{"start_seconds":9608,"text":"may or may not already have you want to make sure that they can claim those nfts these are more web 2 people so ideally you're creating them some sort of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9608s"},{"start_seconds":9616,"text":"semi-custodial in your account um and then down in the bottom you want to make sure that as they take social actions sharing something that adds","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9616s"},{"start_seconds":9624,"text":"value to the fan loyalty perspective that that's being recorded and that that then sort of feeds back into adding value to the nfts that they've already","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9624s"},{"start_seconds":9632,"text":"had and then finally you get to some some much bigger use cases and it uses pretty much everything so if you look at um like there's an application on near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9632s"},{"start_seconds":9640,"text":"that that is building essentially for the the movie industry uh sort of a crowdfunding platform where people can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9640s"},{"start_seconds":9647,"text":"can buy in they get access to a dow it's an nft that unlocks access to a dow which gives them access to Creator","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9647s"},{"start_seconds":9653,"text":"rights over time and and like this this this takes everything like that application like literally needs every single piece of the stack in order to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9653s"},{"start_seconds":9661,"text":"successful the problem is we don't have all of these and so Builders across the ecosystem right now are basically Reinventing the wheel left and right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9661s"},{"start_seconds":9669,"text":"um so so it did kind of a a color-coded heat map of of all the different pieces of this and kind of where we are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9669s"},{"start_seconds":9677,"text":"um and some of them we have the nft minting and and claiming that's something that we do at Satori but as you go down in the back end there we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9677s"},{"start_seconds":9685,"text":"have a lot of missing holes there are a lot of things where some teams have created useful tools but maybe they don't have good ux maybe they don't have documentation maybe they have an open","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9685s"},{"start_seconds":9693,"text":"sourced it and then way down at the bottom there are some things that we just don't even have in terms of like ways ways to contact people who have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9693s"},{"start_seconds":9701,"text":"nfts actually just just two days ago I think uh Eugene and Vadim put out a messaging protocol prototype for for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9701s"},{"start_seconds":9709,"text":"contacting nfts nft holders but fundamentally it's still an extremely difficult problem to solve but or rather","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9709s"},{"start_seconds":9717,"text":"it's a problem that that hasn't been solved yet and I think one of my core one of my core messages here is that a lot of this isn't necessarily blocked by the technology it's just blocked by we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9717s"},{"start_seconds":9726,"text":"need people to build it and each of these each of these squares effectively is a business and you know sometimes it's it's better","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9726s"},{"start_seconds":9734,"text":"as a library sometimes it's an SDK sometimes it's it's supported by a SAS style business and maybe all the way at the top there's a no code tool I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9734s"},{"start_seconds":9742,"text":"maybe maybe there's a no code tool that actually pulls together a whole bunch of these components um but effectively like we're missing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9742s"},{"start_seconds":9749,"text":"big pieces of that but another thing that's that's worth highlighting is that not everything is about building components we also need to fix our ux","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9749s"},{"start_seconds":9757,"text":"and ux is is not something that requires deep development or deep research is something that oftentimes just requires us to think differently","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9757s"},{"start_seconds":9765,"text":"um and I guess step out of ourselves from a web 3 context so if you look at onboarding someone going back to that problem of what does it feel like to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9765s"},{"start_seconds":9774,"text":"onboard your friend the the typical way of doing this right now and I'm very grateful for all the wallets that are built across the ecosystem but my hope is I don't want my friends to even have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9774s"},{"start_seconds":9782,"text":"to touch a wallet if they if they if they're trying to come on but right now you go to a website and then you get bumped off to a third party website and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9782s"},{"start_seconds":9790,"text":"the user experience is very broken um we're moving into a world where things are more semi-custodial which is which","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9790s"},{"start_seconds":9797,"text":"is a much much better Improvement which is essentially the application essentially builds a wallet for the user without them really knowing on the on on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9797s"},{"start_seconds":9805,"text":"their behalf and there's some sort of shared key ownership and then they can hand off that wallet to the users after after the user is finally ready to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9805s"},{"start_seconds":9813,"text":"receive it it's a much better experience but it still doesn't solve the the core problem if you think about what does a user actually want user doesn't care about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9813s"},{"start_seconds":9822,"text":"wallets as as we know they don't care about anything web 2 web 3 related they just want whatever it is the value that you're trying to give to them and so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9822s"},{"start_seconds":9830,"text":"I think what we need to think about is like the wallet is effectively a paywall it's the same amount of pain and suffering as you go through in a web 2 app when you hit the paywall and so if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9830s"},{"start_seconds":9839,"text":"we start to embed that thinking then it starts to be oh man like how do we how do we work around the idea of like most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9839s"},{"start_seconds":9846,"text":"of our users shouldn't even have to touch that paywall at all um and so what we really need to do is is make sure that the only people who hit that paywall are the ones who who","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9846s"},{"start_seconds":9855,"text":"are exceptionally motivated and are being given exceptional value and everyone else should basically have a freemium a freemium experience and so one of the things I wanted to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9855s"},{"start_seconds":9864,"text":"communicate a little bit is that oftentimes we talk about the spectrum between custodial and non-custodial as as being it um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9864s"},{"start_seconds":9871,"text":"but that's not entirely true there's a lot of things that you can do when you start breaking out of playing with the technology at all and you start faking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9871s"},{"start_seconds":9878,"text":"things this is sort of the old man behind the curtain approach which is that that even Beyond custody creating accounts on behalf of users and things","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9878s"},{"start_seconds":9886,"text":"like that like what if we didn't even give them the nft in the first place what if we didn't even create an account for them in the first place what if we faked the entire experience until the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9886s"},{"start_seconds":9894,"text":"very last possible moment and and obviously and the pushback on that is like well hold on why are we even having a blockchain If all we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9894s"},{"start_seconds":9902,"text":"going to do is just fake fake the entire experience and and put it in a web 2 database and you obviously have to deal with some security implications but this comes back to that whole idea which is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9902s"},{"start_seconds":9911,"text":"like if we fundamentally believe that a blockchain is actually creating value long term it is in fact valuable for users long term to hold these nfts then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9911s"},{"start_seconds":9920,"text":"we have to put our faith in that and so it's okay I think to fake a lot of these things on the front end as long as we've given the user enough value eventually","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9920s"},{"start_seconds":9928,"text":"that they're going to want their web free account they're going to want the nft they're going to want whatever it is that we're offering them but until then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9928s"},{"start_seconds":9935,"text":"like let's I would actually love to see people experimenting more with faking everything possible we've I have seen a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9935s"},{"start_seconds":9942,"text":"lot of experiments where where only web 2 users have been targeted they've never been communicated every anything to do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9942s"},{"start_seconds":9949,"text":"with web free except the word nft and it was actually very successful a lot of users join this a lot of users shared a lot of users got involved and there were","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9949s"},{"start_seconds":9958,"text":"no wallets at all so so clearly there are things here that users want and clearly they're being blocked whenever we actually step in front of them and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9958s"},{"start_seconds":9965,"text":"say hold on this is we've got a paywall here you have to set up a wallet you have to do all this stuff so I would love to see more of these experiments","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9965s"},{"start_seconds":9972,"text":"with how much can we fake until we get to the point where it's worth creating wallets for users the cool thing is like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9972s"},{"start_seconds":9980,"text":"we're obviously here at nircon and and this is the right technology to be able to do all this stuff because not only is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9980s"},{"start_seconds":9987,"text":"it about scalability and cost but the account model makes it very very easy to do permissioning uh you know whether it's permissioning individual keys","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9987s"},{"start_seconds":9995,"text":"whether it's swapping accounts securely and things like that so like out of the box if there's going to be a blockchain that when you're done faking it it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=9995s"},{"start_seconds":10003,"text":"time to swap in that blockchain and make sure that that the user has what they need like this is the right one so that so I am very excited about that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10003s"},{"start_seconds":10012,"text":"um we do I just think there's a lot of work that we can do on the ux side before that point um and so just a quick quick note about Satori I mentioned it it's uh so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10012s"},{"start_seconds":10021,"text":"satori's mission is actually very simple similar to the near Mission which is why we've we've actually run into so many of these problems um because what we're trying to do is to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10021s"},{"start_seconds":10029,"text":"bring in the next billion people and to help grow and engage audiences so we tend to exist up on the on the marketing end of that of that funnel but when we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10029s"},{"start_seconds":10037,"text":"talk to when we talk to potential applications who might Implement our API oftentimes they're they're one of two things happen like either they say hold","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10037s"},{"start_seconds":10045,"text":"on like why why should I use an like yes I want to use an nft but like how do I do that like how do I make this valuable to users or on the other side","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10045s"},{"start_seconds":10054,"text":"they say oh great you solved like 10 of the problems that I have but I'm but my Dev team has to build out the other 90 because we don't have components in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10054s"},{"start_seconds":10062,"text":"place so my hope here today is to highlight that other 90 and say please Builders come in and and and fill in those components because each of those","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10062s"},{"start_seconds":10070,"text":"components is another business and I would love to be able to work with all those businesses and and say like yes you should use Satori here but you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10070s"},{"start_seconds":10077,"text":"should also use these other six products and then match them up in into a into a full app and then on the other side that frees us up to to run more experiments","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10077s"},{"start_seconds":10086,"text":"and and act more like a growth lab to start showing the value of nfts because again so much of this is about like if we're going to prove growth if we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10086s"},{"start_seconds":10094,"text":"going to prove uh like a long-term adoption we we can't be spending so much time in the infrastructure we have to be talking we have to be spending more time","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10094s"},{"start_seconds":10102,"text":"on the top end looking at users talking to users and trying to get users to come in and trying to collapse the steps and trying to to make sure that we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10102s"},{"start_seconds":10109,"text":"create loops and Barrel hooks because again that's really the only way that we're actually going to hit an exponential growth curve on any of this stuff","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10109s"},{"start_seconds":10116,"text":"so so in terms of specific calls to action I mentioned incentives is really kind of the entrepreneur's problem but for the components again each of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10116s"},{"start_seconds":10124,"text":"components I highlighted are basically individual businesses so you you can move this from a hackathon project that that creates an open source library to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10124s"},{"start_seconds":10133,"text":"you know probably in in a month you can you can get a micro Grant turn that into a a small SDK get a round of funding and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10133s"},{"start_seconds":10141,"text":"suddenly you have yourself a business like I would love to see more of that across the ecosystem and so please go go to the foundation get grants","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10141s"},{"start_seconds":10149,"text":"do whatever you can to put those components together it's not blocked by technology it's blocked just by Builders and then on the ux side this is about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10149s"},{"start_seconds":10158,"text":"hackers and product people growth hackers really just TR break at break out of the mental model break out of the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10158s"},{"start_seconds":10165,"text":"mental box of it's a it's a spectrum where we always have to touch the chain to like let's fake more stuff let's run more crazy growth experiments that don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10165s"},{"start_seconds":10173,"text":"touch the chain until the last minute and see if that's actually a better more viable and more sustainable funnel for bringing users in who then will be much more long-term engaged when we do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10173s"},{"start_seconds":10182,"text":"finally bring them into the fold with with a real near account with real nfts so once we unblock all of this once we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10182s"},{"start_seconds":10189,"text":"unblock the builders to make things faster once we unblock onboarding to make users go through smoother then I think we can actually unlock the growth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10189s"},{"start_seconds":10198,"text":"that we're all here and all excited to take part in and maybe in the next four years we will in fact be able to get to a billion users thanks","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10198s"},{"start_seconds":10217,"text":"awesome speech Eric and by the way make sure while you're here you check out proof of memories which is satori's new uh nft concept debuted here at nearcon","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10217s"},{"start_seconds":10226,"text":"we're now going to break for 15 minutes make sure you check out the ecosystem Partners if you haven't already grab some awesome food and we'll see you back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10226s"},{"start_seconds":10233,"text":"here in 15 minutes hello everyone","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10233s"},{"start_seconds":10242,"text":"Welcome to the shade stage next topic today is an absolute favorite of mine it's gaming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10242s"},{"start_seconds":10252,"text":"gaming in the web 360 in the web 3 space so young June","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10252s"},{"start_seconds":10259,"text":"will be moderating this one it's called onboarding the next generation of web 3 gamers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10259s"},{"start_seconds":10275,"text":"all right well I mean I'm also a huge fan of gaming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10275s"},{"start_seconds":10285,"text":"um I think you know especially as we're thinking about Mass adoption I think gaming is a easy win you know it's an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10285s"},{"start_seconds":10292,"text":"easy win it's an easy way of kind of you know providing a Gateway for the next you know like batch of users and so I'm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10292s"},{"start_seconds":10302,"text":"really excited to be moderating this talk today and so I'd like to bring up to the stage um let's so we have Sasha from Human","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10302s"},{"start_seconds":10309,"text":"Guild and Hugo from play Ember okay all right round of applause","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10309s"},{"start_seconds":10323,"text":"all right so you know as I was alluding I think there is such a huge opportunity with gaming in the web 3 space I think we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10323s"},{"start_seconds":10332,"text":"still really early I mean I think that phrase is used across the board right yeah and we are very early but I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10332s"},{"start_seconds":10338,"text":"with gaming it's even more so right um it's such a complicated and kind of involved process of building a game and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10338s"},{"start_seconds":10347,"text":"so um you know I guess I wanted to kind of open it up by asking you both um what do you feel like is the current","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10347s"},{"start_seconds":10355,"text":"experience for users as well as kind of like from the developer side what do you think the experience is like building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10355s"},{"start_seconds":10363,"text":"games in web 3. sure sure so from a plan but we're a mobile game studio","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10363s"},{"start_seconds":10371,"text":"and so we used to kind of mobile game development um so for us at the moment web3 game","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10371s"},{"start_seconds":10378,"text":"development is a is a lot more difficult than usual mobile game development you kind of don't need to deal with any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10378s"},{"start_seconds":10386,"text":"interoperability or game tokenomics and so actually it's quite easy to ship a mobile game","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10386s"},{"start_seconds":10395,"text":"and we've kind of or for the last nine months we've kind of worked on the the web 3 side which has been a real","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10395s"},{"start_seconds":10403,"text":"learning curve and I think a lot of mobile game studios are trying to do the same but I think the more and more people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10403s"},{"start_seconds":10411,"text":"people learn um yeah it's kind of getting easier in the infrastructure's building up and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10411s"},{"start_seconds":10418,"text":"making it easier what about you Sasha yeah I agree that it's very challenging to build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10418s"},{"start_seconds":10426,"text":"blockchain game uh it comes with trade-offs it takes a particular mindset for people to embark on something like this I think building games in web 2","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10426s"},{"start_seconds":10433,"text":"space a lot of things I figured out be it for PC or web or steam or mobile","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10433s"},{"start_seconds":10441,"text":"but also the downside of building in web 2 Gaming is extremely competitive so even though things are figured out there are best practices established over the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10441s"},{"start_seconds":10449,"text":"course of decade or two uh it's very very competitive and so the web 3 is kind of like opposite of that it's like nothing is figured out there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10449s"},{"start_seconds":10456,"text":"are additional complexities that Hugo mentioned um you're gonna need to build a fun game still that's the most important thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10456s"},{"start_seconds":10464,"text":"but you also need to create open economy but you also need to make sure those two things balance uh economic game not gonna become the main game it's still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10464s"},{"start_seconds":10472,"text":"the focus is in the game you need to deal with legal you need to figure out how to go to market which is incrementally and with the community","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10472s"},{"start_seconds":10479,"text":"which is different from web to space it's a collab to figure out no best practices established for none of this things but another another hand it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10479s"},{"start_seconds":10488,"text":"also not competitive meaning that if you launch something of value likely you'll see a lot of people that care on day one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10488s"},{"start_seconds":10496,"text":"and because we have a near ecosystem we have a lot of near wallets like eagerly waiting for applications to launch generally but also games to launch","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10496s"},{"start_seconds":10504,"text":"people like really waiting for launches yeah amazing so I actually got a little ahead of myself I wanted to give you both an opportunity to kind of introduce","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10504s"},{"start_seconds":10513,"text":"yourselves as well as kind of talk about what you do and what's bringing you to nearcon so uh Hugo if you would like to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10513s"},{"start_seconds":10520,"text":"start yeah cool so I'm uh Hugo CEO at play Amber so yeah we're a mobile game studio","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10520s"},{"start_seconds":10527,"text":"um we have about uh eight million monthly active users across Apple and Google play um and we've kind of worked with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10527s"},{"start_seconds":10535,"text":"Publishers in the mobile game space and our our games are you categorize them like hyper casual to hybrid casual","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10535s"},{"start_seconds":10543,"text":"probably so games with really low CPI cost per install um but they scale quite easily so we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10543s"},{"start_seconds":10550,"text":"kind of get big numbers and that's what we want to bring to near we want to take those web 2 players and we've kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10550s"},{"start_seconds":10557,"text":"built a an infrastructure a Unity SDK which is what most mobile games are built on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10557s"},{"start_seconds":10563,"text":"um and basically a an add-on so you add into the game it takes about an hour so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10563s"},{"start_seconds":10570,"text":"reduces a lot of the complexities that I kind of went through earlier and let's game studios just concentrate on making games","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10570s"},{"start_seconds":10579,"text":"um yeah so that that's where we hope to kind of Mass on board a lot of people to near amazing and Sasha yeah um my path","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10579s"},{"start_seconds":10588,"text":"to to Nero was through France so I actually started working in Nero on almost the day one of near existence in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10588s"},{"start_seconds":10595,"text":"August of 2018 I used to work in a database company was one of the co-founders of near one thing led to another uh joined it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10595s"},{"start_seconds":10603,"text":"very early mainly in the beginning I was talking to the market so we had mostly developers building the blockchain it took in 2019 alone we rebuilt blockchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10603s"},{"start_seconds":10612,"text":"three times and we only have had two people on a business side Eric and myself I was focusing to talk into the market","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10612s"},{"start_seconds":10619,"text":"that helped quite a bit near refocused on usability away from just scalability through feedback from blockchain gaming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10619s"},{"start_seconds":10627,"text":"Studios actually uh and then fast forward to today so I started human guilt last year it's one of the spin-offs from New York System a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10627s"},{"start_seconds":10636,"text":"lot of people generally speaking from early near team uh broke into small kind of like startups or different uh pieces of deca system last year were the first","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10636s"},{"start_seconds":10644,"text":"ones so we roughly in summer time of last year we started focusing more and more on gaming so we were more generally focusing on non-d5 applications so near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10644s"},{"start_seconds":10653,"text":"all kinds of Creator economy applications but we saw organic interest in gaming on your ecosystem last year in Paris in one of the nft marketplaces so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10653s"},{"start_seconds":10661,"text":"near we saw last summer roughly 12 or so creators who didn't have game development skills but they really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10661s"},{"start_seconds":10669,"text":"wanted to build something like a game they were building like very simple card games essentially and we wanted to double click on that we thought that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10669s"},{"start_seconds":10676,"text":"there is something there there's organic interest in this we went to game gems game jumps are kind of like something similar to hackathons but people build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10676s"},{"start_seconds":10684,"text":"games instead of innocent and so through working in game jams we attracted a lot of independent game developers to New York a system then we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10684s"},{"start_seconds":10692,"text":"did some YouTube cross promotions and slowly started started getting more and more uh Studios gaming Studios not just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10692s"},{"start_seconds":10700,"text":"independent game developers but also game studios interested in building games on year and so now network was 50 or so games on here of different stages","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10700s"},{"start_seconds":10708,"text":"of development you can see some of them in a gaming arcade uh we have 16 or so Games available to try out in a gaming arcade","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10708s"},{"start_seconds":10717,"text":"that's for people who like interested in trying them out yeah awesome thank you for that yeah so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10717s"},{"start_seconds":10724,"text":"I mean you both have kind of alluded to like the platforms that games are built on and obviously mobile is very hot in what three right now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10724s"},{"start_seconds":10732,"text":"um but obviously gaming on mobile is a very different experience um than you know maybe using like you know like checking your portfolio on","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10732s"},{"start_seconds":10740,"text":"mobile versus desktop right like I feel like the entire kind of the way you interact with the game is different um but I guess my question to you both","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10740s"},{"start_seconds":10748,"text":"would be do you think that mobile is key for gaming and um I guess thinking about kind of what you were mentioning Sasha like the kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10748s"},{"start_seconds":10757,"text":"of experience between mobile PC and web both from a developer and users perspective um what would you say is kind of like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10757s"},{"start_seconds":10765,"text":"something that maybe we should even prioritize like what do you think is a maybe um like low hanging fruit that we can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10765s"},{"start_seconds":10772,"text":"kind of tackle first yeah um I would say mobile is very important channel for uh for game developers to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10772s"},{"start_seconds":10779,"text":"consider a year ago uh majority of people were too afraid to try mobile they were building things for web it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10779s"},{"start_seconds":10786,"text":"still it's still a lot of uncertainty in terms of how to deal with Google how to deal with Apple uh like crypto industry will have to kind of together","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10786s"},{"start_seconds":10795,"text":"collectively figure it out together with those to uh two entities that control majority of the mobile distribution but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10795s"},{"start_seconds":10802,"text":"I think mobile is where a lot of gamers are obviously it's not just mobile of course I play some console games it's not to say it's less challenging","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10802s"},{"start_seconds":10810,"text":"figuring out how to get a crypto game launched on Sony Playstation or Xbox is still kind of also very much open open","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10810s"},{"start_seconds":10820,"text":"question it and nobody has done it but I think mobile represents this really big distribution opportunity yeah I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10820s"},{"start_seconds":10827,"text":"it's a question of the end user as well so I think um kind of crypto or really hardcore gamers","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10827s"},{"start_seconds":10836,"text":"probably look at mobile games as they're not really games so they would be more open to um to kind of web3 desktop and I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10836s"},{"start_seconds":10845,"text":"that's probably where you'll have longer session times and everything like that um but yeah in terms of mass Market I think mobile is yeah certainly the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10845s"},{"start_seconds":10854,"text":"lowest hanging fruit awesome um I guess you know as we're kind of talking about you know the users and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10854s"},{"start_seconds":10862,"text":"kind of onboarding this next batch right of Gamers where do you think these users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10862s"},{"start_seconds":10870,"text":"are are going to come from like where do you think these gamers are gonna come from do you think web2 natives are gonna move over or do you think they're web3","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10870s"},{"start_seconds":10879,"text":"folks who are just going to get into gaming like I'd love to hear both of your thoughts I think that's a really um kind of important question or a hard","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10879s"},{"start_seconds":10887,"text":"one to answer so I think uh decentralization is great but it makes distribution so hard so I suppose","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10887s"},{"start_seconds":10897,"text":"we we've kind of cheating in a way in that we're getting our users through Apple and Google and then kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10897s"},{"start_seconds":10903,"text":"converting them from there to web3 um we're kind of dabbling with the idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10903s"},{"start_seconds":10910,"text":"of basically like a treasure hunt or loot boxes within our game so say a pfp collection say oh we want to put uh 20","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10910s"},{"start_seconds":10919,"text":"asacs into your game and we drop them across all our games and then we think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10919s"},{"start_seconds":10927,"text":"lots of web 3 users would actually come into like a web 3 mobile game to play the game and search for these pfps so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10927s"},{"start_seconds":10936,"text":"think I think it can work both ways kind of web to to web3 and web3 to web 2.5 maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10936s"},{"start_seconds":10944,"text":"um but yeah cool yeah I I agree it will be a little bit of both I think when it comes to web 3 gaming it's still extremely early the biggest uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10944s"},{"start_seconds":10953,"text":"blockchain games today they have like 200 000 wallets which is active Wallets on a monthly basis I think which is good uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10953s"},{"start_seconds":10962,"text":"but it's still like looking at the traditional gaming it's in millions hundreds of millions some some games even probably have more than that so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10962s"},{"start_seconds":10970,"text":"think um I think we cannot rely on web3 Gamers alone just because how small the market it is it's also fragmented it's kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10970s"},{"start_seconds":10978,"text":"split across different chains and we don't have like really good abstraction layer yet or interoperability existence so I think it's a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10978s"},{"start_seconds":10986,"text":"of both but I agree with Hugo as well it's really good idea to think about nft communities for example who are looking for providing utility for for their","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10986s"},{"start_seconds":10995,"text":"communities and building games or virtual worlds for those is a really good natural step and then another side web 2 Gaming Studios coming into website","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=10995s"},{"start_seconds":11005,"text":"you should be doing a lot of nft drops should be doing web 3 native kind of go to market awesome um so we have a few minutes left","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11005s"},{"start_seconds":11013,"text":"um I did want to ask obviously you know for all the the builders who are interested in getting into gaming in web3","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11013s"},{"start_seconds":11020,"text":"um do you have any advice as they kind of consider you know if they want to like get involved um ways you know in which maybe that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11020s"},{"start_seconds":11028,"text":"transition can be easier um I would love to hear what you might say to them yeah um I'd say probably just get started","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11028s"},{"start_seconds":11037,"text":"kind of get stuck in because it's um uh in web 3 more than any uh any other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11037s"},{"start_seconds":11044,"text":"thing I've done kind of over my career it changes like weekly um so I think you just need to get","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11044s"},{"start_seconds":11051,"text":"started kind of get get your head down um and probably not be too precious to kind of even though you've done","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11051s"},{"start_seconds":11059,"text":"something and it's really cool for the last month or two months actually if if now that's not the way to go you kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11059s"},{"start_seconds":11067,"text":"need to Pivot and just kind of take that you're learning all the time yeah yeah I think uh important pieces","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11067s"},{"start_seconds":11075,"text":"are in terms of where to get started so one is figuring out funding is extremely challenging like navigating fundraising in gaming is challenging to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11075s"},{"start_seconds":11083,"text":"begin with but in the current market conditions is is hard so that that piece is like needs to be at some point figured out because gaming is very Capital intensive I'm not saying like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11083s"},{"start_seconds":11091,"text":"there are like perfect answers for this but like figuring out what's your funding pass for like multiple years is important one to focus on and in other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11091s"},{"start_seconds":11098,"text":"pieces like money is probably secondary to everything else what I mentioned how to go to market how to build economy and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11098s"},{"start_seconds":11106,"text":"things like that is a lot more important for Success they are what we do at human Guild we're trying to get Founders to help other Founders so essentially build","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11106s"},{"start_seconds":11113,"text":"collaborative community that doesn't think of themselves as competitors that thinks of themselves more as there is a lot to figure out we need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11113s"},{"start_seconds":11121,"text":"all figure it out so we can speed up the amount of figuring this out by talking to each other it was similar to how near itself was built in the beginning in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11121s"},{"start_seconds":11130,"text":"very collaborative approach so there is like whiteboard series that near did on YouTube by talking to a lot of other layer ones and layer twos and there was a lot of ideas and cross collaboration","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11130s"},{"start_seconds":11139,"text":"born out of it for example near borrowed some ideas from polkadot ethereum 2 borrowed some ideas from from near back then and so similar approach we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11139s"},{"start_seconds":11147,"text":"trying to cultivate with Founders if you figure it out like sustainable economy how to build it do not treat it as a secret sauce talk to others and can like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11147s"},{"start_seconds":11156,"text":"help each other all right awesome so we're down to the last minute here I'd like to hear from both of you in 30","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11156s"},{"start_seconds":11163,"text":"seconds each what are you most excited about like what excites you when you wake up in the morning you're like yes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11163s"},{"start_seconds":11171,"text":"this is something that I'm ready to see um well we're really excited to bring blockchain Tech into into Mobile gaming","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11171s"},{"start_seconds":11179,"text":"and kind of really uh get the perfect mix of web 2 web 2 kind of usability and ease of onboarding","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11179s"},{"start_seconds":11187,"text":"um and web3 interoperability ownership and everything like that awesome yeah for me it's uh what motivates me is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11187s"},{"start_seconds":11195,"text":"Founders succeeding like other creators succeeding in a space I think there is a blurry line between who is Creator and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11195s"},{"start_seconds":11203,"text":"founder it's like uh but I think seeing those people successful over time is like what motivates me","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11203s"},{"start_seconds":11210,"text":"awesome so obviously you know a huge thanks to both of you for your time and your thoughts today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11210s"},{"start_seconds":11217,"text":"um obviously gaming it's hot um if you guys have any questions obviously Hugo and Sasha are available to kind of take your questions at the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11217s"},{"start_seconds":11226,"text":"end um but yeah thank you both so much thank you thank you so much Hugo Sasha ayung","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11226s"},{"start_seconds":11232,"text":"everybody here if you're an avid gamer do check out the gaming section The Gamers lounge and test some of our great","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11232s"},{"start_seconds":11240,"text":"projects on near ecosystem hi friends","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11240s"},{"start_seconds":11250,"text":"we're here to talk about interoperability excellent um more specifically in the context of polka dot and near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11250s"},{"start_seconds":11259,"text":"um I'm Ashley Tyson I'm with hypersphere I'm a co-founder of web3 foundation so I helped launch polka dot and then I worked with near Foundation to help","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11259s"},{"start_seconds":11266,"text":"launch near and now I run a VC fund called hypersphere we've invested in axlr","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11266s"},{"start_seconds":11273,"text":"and this is Jason from axillar and Sheldon from octopus Network and we're going to talk a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11273s"},{"start_seconds":11280,"text":"about keeping your friends near um but maybe we can start by the both of you kind of giving introductions to your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11280s"},{"start_seconds":11288,"text":"projects and what you guys are working on yeah absolutely so I'm Jason I lead BDT here at auxiler","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11288s"},{"start_seconds":11295,"text":"um you know actually on a very high level is a blockchain that connects other blockchains uh actually differentiates itself is that we're more than a bridge we're able to move any","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11295s"},{"start_seconds":11304,"text":"payload call Smart contracts or trust any chains and because of that we believe we enable A Whole New World of possibility you can build now true","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11304s"},{"start_seconds":11312,"text":"Crossing applications like Crossing swaps cross-chain lending on top of axler's decentralized and permissionless infrastructure cool and Sheldon tell us","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11312s"},{"start_seconds":11321,"text":"about octopus so octopus network is kind of like a hybrid layer zero it's a bit of an unusual play to say hey we like the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11321s"},{"start_seconds":11330,"text":"relay chain we like that secondary execution environment but also liquidity as necessary that's how I usually compare polka dot Cosmos we're fusing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11330s"},{"start_seconds":11338,"text":"that Solution on near to use near as a single execution environment for substrate chains same format as polka dot but of course they need more than","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11338s"},{"start_seconds":11345,"text":"that they need features they need things that work for their sovereignty so they have the ability to bring up their own Bridges which we're going to be","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11345s"},{"start_seconds":11352,"text":"launching earlier this sorry later this year we're deploying an IBC relayer palette and library that people will use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11352s"},{"start_seconds":11360,"text":"to talk to other ecosystems that doesn't have to just be Cosmos okay so we should talk about those bridges in just a minute because when I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11360s"},{"start_seconds":11368,"text":"was told that we were talking about Building Bridges between me and polka dot I was just like do we have did I miss the bridge like between polka dot and near so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11368s"},{"start_seconds":11377,"text":"um there aren't any that currently exist I guess maybe we're talking figurative Bridge Building at this moment in time um so maybe share a little bit more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11377s"},{"start_seconds":11386,"text":"about kind of like what that interoperability looks like um from the octopus perspective sure I mean we've talked to axlr and composable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11386s"},{"start_seconds":11395,"text":"and a bunch of other organizations who have like similar missions and we think what they're doing is incredibly important the way that axelr does this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11395s"},{"start_seconds":11402,"text":"is also important The Proposal from a composable that's on near governance Forum I was so glad to see ilya's response from that because that's taking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11402s"},{"start_seconds":11410,"text":"on the encryption types that we need to make it easier to communicate between the two environments right but the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11410s"},{"start_seconds":11417,"text":"um the the side of it that is basically us paying homage to polka dot is that the substrate change that we help launch","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11417s"},{"start_seconds":11424,"text":"they are specifically positioned to be able to move on to polka dot it's not that they actually Bridge there it's that they are their own independent","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11424s"},{"start_seconds":11431,"text":"entities we're not asking them to be the glue between near and polka dot we're asking them to enjoy the benefits of near and if they can grow up as substrate chains mature to the level","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11431s"},{"start_seconds":11439,"text":"that polka dot needs you know you have to be a mature entity before you go for that parachain auction slot so then in some way like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11439s"},{"start_seconds":11448,"text":"do you consider it almost like a breeding grounds I don't want to I don't want to put words in your mouth in that way but that's how you like your it feels like you're describing we call it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11448s"},{"start_seconds":11455,"text":"the bottom of the substrate Market the top of the substrate Market is definitely polka dot the best products go there we we understand that the most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11455s"},{"start_seconds":11463,"text":"mature complete you know feature sweet things they go to polka dot and that makes sense but they need a place to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11463s"},{"start_seconds":11470,"text":"start and the mentality before octopus Network those chains had to start with really long test Nets the example I usually give is math I love math wallet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11470s"},{"start_seconds":11478,"text":"what those guys are doing is great they had to live on a production test net for more than a year you shouldn't have to do that that's basically our model to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11478s"},{"start_seconds":11486,"text":"give them a chance to kind of start at an MVP and grow up okay cool and then maybe you can talk a little bit from the axillar perspective any current upper","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11486s"},{"start_seconds":11495,"text":"interoperability or planned interoperability between polkadot and near yeah absolutely you know I think before we go into the specifics of how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11495s"},{"start_seconds":11502,"text":"that actually works from an actual perspective I would just say from axler's point of view the future is going to be all completely interconnected right and you know as a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11502s"},{"start_seconds":11511,"text":"user you won't really care whether this application is on polka dot or on octopus or anywhere else you just have a direct relationship with the application","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11511s"},{"start_seconds":11518,"text":"you'll have a very simple user experience you click one or two button and it just works right and how axler is doing to enable that is we are a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11518s"},{"start_seconds":11527,"text":"blockchain that connects to these other blockchains ecosystems in a many-to-many connectivity so specifically with how we're connecting polka dot to near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11527s"},{"start_seconds":11535,"text":"is right now we have a direct integration to Moonbeam on the axler network what that means is we're able to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11535s"},{"start_seconds":11543,"text":"pass messages call Smart contracts from any of the other 23 chains we're connected to which also includes Cosmo IBC chain two Moonbeam and then Moonbeam","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11543s"},{"start_seconds":11552,"text":"via xcm is able to communicate to the other para chains so today how we're able to work with some of the bigger paratrade like engine is they first pass","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11552s"},{"start_seconds":11561,"text":"a message via xcm to Moonbeam and then Viva axillary pass message to other evm and Cosmos chains and that's part of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11561s"},{"start_seconds":11569,"text":"moonbeam's overall cross-chain strategy as well but you know what's really exciting for us is now we're going to have an alternative for these polkadot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11569s"},{"start_seconds":11577,"text":"ecosystem projects to directly connect with near and that's because centrifuge a very prominent project in polkadot has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11577s"},{"start_seconds":11585,"text":"offered to help push the push it forward in the ecosystem and build a pallet for this for an actual palette in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11585s"},{"start_seconds":11592,"text":"substrate system so within the next few months when this palette is complete any substrate based chains will be able to integrate this palette and have a direct","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11592s"},{"start_seconds":11601,"text":"connectivity from the parachain right into axillary and then you can think of axler as this Hub in the middle right once you're able to pass messages to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11601s"},{"start_seconds":11609,"text":"axler we can then pass that message to Aurora and through Aurora's new two-way contract calls directly move it to near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11609s"},{"start_seconds":11617,"text":"and I do think that sounds excellent we've talked to the XLR team a number of times and we do appreciate the design the octopus model is to not exist in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11617s"},{"start_seconds":11626,"text":"middle it doesn't mean that it's wrong that XLR does that XLR does that in an incredibly fair and reasonable way our model is just that trustless Bridges","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11626s"},{"start_seconds":11634,"text":"should be priority which means we're asking people to focus more on Direct connections without a third party it doesn't mean that XLR is a bad word being that third party you guys are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11634s"},{"start_seconds":11642,"text":"doing a great job it just means that the the model that we're pushing forward is for direct integration between two different environments of course I would","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11642s"},{"start_seconds":11650,"text":"say Sheldon like totally hear you and but you know you look at the bridging space today right we think the far bigger problems that most bridges and intrawability solutions today are very","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11650s"},{"start_seconds":11658,"text":"centralized they're almost like a centralized exchange experience ran by multi-cigs versus axillary is the only one that's truly fully decentralized and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11658s"},{"start_seconds":11667,"text":"we've recently launched quadratic voting which actually further decentralized the network even more so that we actually spread out the voting power a little bit","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11667s"},{"start_seconds":11675,"text":"more fairly our DNA has always been about 6 security and we think the best way to achieve that is through decentralization","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11675s"},{"start_seconds":11687,"text":"sure so at the moment near is the only execution environment that's adjacent that IBC solution that we're developing we've proven it out it can work it is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11687s"},{"start_seconds":11696,"text":"not used in production yet we haven't made it easy the validation is not complete yet that means that in prod today that is genuinely the way that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11696s"},{"start_seconds":11704,"text":"those chains interact is by using near as the simultaneous environment but IBC from Cosmos as the lightweight alternative to incorporating a third","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11704s"},{"start_seconds":11712,"text":"party because even if you you don't mind the the trust involved a third party needs to be paid you know there needs to be someone footing the bill right so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11712s"},{"start_seconds":11720,"text":"when there isn't a third party to pay for that those two smaller organizations or younger chains they have a much lower threshold to figure out how they can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11720s"},{"start_seconds":11728,"text":"interact you know when they have an interaction and they're looking at like a margin of cost from another piece of infrastructure it makes sense that it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11728s"},{"start_seconds":11735,"text":"would be harder to rise above that cost when it's direct between chains you're just paying gas on both sides","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11735s"},{"start_seconds":11742,"text":"so two different approaches um I'm curious to get a sense of the audience who here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11742s"},{"start_seconds":11750,"text":"um like what's everyone's background if you're a developer raise your hands if you're more of like a user right","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11750s"},{"start_seconds":11758,"text":"maybe not like on the building side raise your hands okay so about 50 50.","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11758s"},{"start_seconds":11766,"text":"um which is kind of interesting right because like right now thinking about interoperability from either perspective it's just pain in the ass","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11766s"},{"start_seconds":11775,"text":"there's like nothing worse than like the current infrastructure that we have and I think like my my perspective and I think all of our perspectives on stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11775s"},{"start_seconds":11783,"text":"is that like it's not interoperability just between kind of like one ecosystem it has to cross ecosystems","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11783s"},{"start_seconds":11791,"text":"um and right now like we're having um you know we've we've all seen some exploits that have been notable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11791s"},{"start_seconds":11798,"text":"um in the past couple of months so The Nomad exploit which I think heavily affected the polka dot ecosystem","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11798s"},{"start_seconds":11806,"text":"um I think we're in a good stable place there but they're not without their you know real risks so I'd love the two of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11806s"},{"start_seconds":11814,"text":"you to chat a little bit about your perspectives um on that and how we can create better security around interoperability because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11814s"},{"start_seconds":11823,"text":"you shouldn't have to risk your assets in order to be able to like move things across chains so love your thoughts yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11823s"},{"start_seconds":11830,"text":"I mean I can start I couldn't agree more actually I think today the state of bridging or interoperability is just not ideal right we have so far to go still","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11830s"},{"start_seconds":11839,"text":"and I think about like security at axillary we really see security as two things right first a more secure design in the first place something that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11839s"},{"start_seconds":11847,"text":"doesn't have to have you know be centralized or have these assumptions that you really have to like hold close for it to work out and then the second","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11847s"},{"start_seconds":11854,"text":"thing is having all kinds of contingency or safety measures so that so when something does go wrong you're able to at least cap the loss or have some kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11854s"},{"start_seconds":11862,"text":"of like action plan to like mitigate the damage I think there is no design that's perfectly secure so we always have to plan for the worst and you know at axler","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11862s"},{"start_seconds":11871,"text":"as I mentioned earlier from a pure design perspective right our team has spent over the last two years building out a decentralized interoperative","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11871s"},{"start_seconds":11879,"text":"solution where one of the only ones that's a blockchain that are able to connect other blockchains and the reason why we built it like that is because proof of stake blockchains have been","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11879s"},{"start_seconds":11888,"text":"around for a long time their security assumptions are well documented we know how how it works it's how it doesn't work and that's why we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11888s"},{"start_seconds":11895,"text":"think it's been battle tested and at the same time when we look at the safety measures accidents put in place we have something called rate limits","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11895s"},{"start_seconds":11902,"text":"that caps amount of asset transfer within a time interval so if axler were to be exploited you could add essentially a stop loss on the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11902s"},{"start_seconds":11910,"text":"application Level of what the maximum damage would be and of course that's not enough right just losing a little bit of money is still losing money so in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11910s"},{"start_seconds":11918,"text":"conjunction to that we set up an insurance fund that's five percent of our total token Supply and given that we did our last round at a billion dollars","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11918s"},{"start_seconds":11925,"text":"that's a substantial amount of money set aside to cover that loss in case an emergency does happen and we also do","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11925s"},{"start_seconds":11932,"text":"various other things like rotating validator keys so malicious after can't be accumulating to use keys and attack the network","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11932s"},{"start_seconds":11939,"text":"and it's like things like this that we really think about on a daily basis because security is just absolutely Paramount here yeah speaking of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11939s"},{"start_seconds":11949,"text":"something like that we got please let me know um you know we've seen that being a real need in in the space but Sheldon yeah","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11949s"},{"start_seconds":11957,"text":"maybe you can talk a little bit about that sure my answer is much shorter and I basically expressed it already it's that we don't want this liability I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11957s"},{"start_seconds":11965,"text":"think that approaching that liability with a sane angle of hey we need to you know restrict these things provide contingencies it makes a lot of sense","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11965s"},{"start_seconds":11973,"text":"and the way that axelr does it has my respect hands down but the model that we want to introduce for smaller entities is just trustless it is the idea that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11973s"},{"start_seconds":11982,"text":"the only other person that you need to interact with is someone who you already trust because you've already made a business arrangement with them to enable your two products to communicate so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11982s"},{"start_seconds":11990,"text":"think that the components that XLR is focused on are the right thing I didn't know about the insurance fund that's awesome I'll have to look into that a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11990s"},{"start_seconds":11998,"text":"little bit but the model that we're looking at isn't designed for you know someone who's prepared to really manage that at a higher level at a higher stage","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=11998s"},{"start_seconds":12007,"text":"of growth sure it doesn't make sense to maintain 30 like clients to communicate with all the other blocks chains but that's why IBC is our focus and if that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12007s"},{"start_seconds":12015,"text":"means taking on an IBC pallet and an xcmp palette at the same time in the future I think that's not out of the question it's just a matter of refining","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12015s"},{"start_seconds":12023,"text":"that to the point where it makes sense absolutely I mean we love IBC at Oxford right that's why we built our blockchain using Cosmos SDK and what really assault","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12023s"},{"start_seconds":12031,"text":"we're trying to solve for is how do we have a near IPC like experience for the non-ibc chains as well yeah and I thought it was really interesting when I saw it was injective because that's also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12031s"},{"start_seconds":12039,"text":"another party we've been talking to about bringing it into prod from Astor so I I almost uh asked us to like say something publicly because hey we talked","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12039s"},{"start_seconds":12048,"text":"to you guys we know you guys were working on this we're working on a similar product that works in a different way right you know in the sense of user experience this should not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12048s"},{"start_seconds":12056,"text":"be different but we're still in the era that we're kind of planning the way these things are going to work and sort of structuring how that should look for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12056s"},{"start_seconds":12063,"text":"a user long term they're they shouldn't care they shouldn't know right but on the flip side of that there's that person who's developing a small product","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12063s"},{"start_seconds":12071,"text":"I don't want to set a capital barrier for projects to be able to you know use bridges in a productive manner so I'm not saying that axelr does that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12071s"},{"start_seconds":12078,"text":"necessarily but the the necessary cost that comes from a third party is just part of the reason why we're structuring in that more lightweight manner makes sense","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12078s"},{"start_seconds":12087,"text":"um we've got two minutes left so I wanted to talk a little bit about road maps because right now like there really isn't interoperability between me and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12087s"},{"start_seconds":12095,"text":"polkadot and I'm chomping at the bit when's it gonna like happen um so if you guys can share a little bit um obviously everything always is kind","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12095s"},{"start_seconds":12104,"text":"of like a amorphous date but a little bit more about your road maps for kind of rolling out IBC and then that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12104s"},{"start_seconds":12111,"text":"functionality and then with axelr like when we can expect to like actually be able to use this so I'll keep it relatively short our IBC product is in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12111s"},{"start_seconds":12120,"text":"its final steps of validation and there's two pull requests left on the relayer so we're launching that by end of the year I'll be obligated to give a couple of workshops on it to make sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12120s"},{"start_seconds":12128,"text":"it's sort of easy to use I've already got a couple of third-party validators pulling it up and trying it so the IBC stuff is relatively short throw we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12128s"},{"start_seconds":12136,"text":"going to be there soon nft bridging I'm doing a test net demo tomorrow at the booth so mint and burn is not the most exciting thing in the world but making","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12136s"},{"start_seconds":12144,"text":"it trustworthy is worthwhile at a small scale you know transferring an ape across chains is not something that we're going to see for quite a while","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12144s"},{"start_seconds":12151,"text":"because people are obsessed with this one pfp project but at the same time there needs to be something that makes it possible for these smaller organizations to be able to do their own","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12151s"},{"start_seconds":12160,"text":"fractionalization to be able to make nfts move them to near or move nfts from near to another chain and back so XLR is going to cover a much larger footprint","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12160s"},{"start_seconds":12168,"text":"in that regard when you all get there but because of the way we're doing this sort of like small business oriented deployment it's much easier for us to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12168s"},{"start_seconds":12175,"text":"say hey this is lightweight this makes sense I'm really looking forward to that I'm excited for getting you that in public on testnet","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12175s"},{"start_seconds":12183,"text":"yeah I think for us in the short term we're going to use Aurora as a hub and Gateway to near where we're really excited about the two-way message passing that Aurora just announced","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12183s"},{"start_seconds":12192,"text":"earlier this afternoon we've been like working closely with that team to make sure that happens as some of you guys might know we already secured partnership with uh spend a derivative","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12192s"},{"start_seconds":12201,"text":"platform on here as well as uh ref from last week so we're ready to start building right and the missing piece has always been how do you do two-way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12201s"},{"start_seconds":12208,"text":"message passing from Aurora to near so now that that's ready we're able to start building these like true Crossing applications where you're able to do these cross-chain swaps or cross-chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12208s"},{"start_seconds":12216,"text":"deposits with just one click and I think in the future as axler has more resources and we fit we you know complete our roadmap on integration and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12216s"},{"start_seconds":12224,"text":"some of the other layer ones what we'll do is we can potentially integrate near natively or if the rumor is true and near does have an IPC connection we'll","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12224s"},{"start_seconds":12233,"text":"be able to integrate near like any other Cosmos chain for us to integrate a new evm and IVC chain it only takes around 10 minutes so every week we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12233s"},{"start_seconds":12241,"text":"continuously adding new IBC chains so if near were to become obvious compatible I think that would be amazing because then we'll be able to have a direct","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12241s"},{"start_seconds":12249,"text":"connection to near and we'll be able to do all kinds of cool stuff awesome well hopefully next year we'll be having a very different conversation about the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12249s"},{"start_seconds":12257,"text":"realities of this so sure I appreciate you guys joining us and if you want to chat with axillar or octopus octopus has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12257s"},{"start_seconds":12264,"text":"a boost over in the off to the side that area do that way and then they can find you at the Aurora area we're working","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12264s"},{"start_seconds":12272,"text":"yeah I'll be at the Aurora Booth but we also have a cross chain event tomorrow with axler and our summer Partners like Tri Solaris Aurora and Squid so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12272s"},{"start_seconds":12280,"text":"definitely ask me for more information we'd love to have you guys thank you cool thanks everyone thanks Ashley","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12280s"},{"start_seconds":12290,"text":"there you go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12290s"},{"start_seconds":12301,"text":"all right so we have a couple of changes in terms of our panelists today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12301s"},{"start_seconds":12309,"text":"um so we have um you know a very distinguished panel of folks here to talk to us about auditing so we have Robert from ottersec","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12309s"},{"start_seconds":12318,"text":"we have Giannis from chain security we have yev from hacken and we also have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12318s"},{"start_seconds":12324,"text":"mihao from halborn so welcome to our panelists today","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12324s"},{"start_seconds":12332,"text":"all right so you know I feel like throughout the day and just in general we've been talking a lot about","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12332s"},{"start_seconds":12339,"text":"vulnerabilities hacks breaches it's kind of inevitable right that it's so kind of top of mind for a lot of people and so I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12339s"},{"start_seconds":12349,"text":"think one thing that is clear is that security is a really tough problem to solve it's it's an inevitability it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12349s"},{"start_seconds":12356,"text":"something that's bound to happen in terms of you know just having vulnerabilities but how do you solve that just because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12356s"},{"start_seconds":12363,"text":"if you don't catch something the risk is potential you know like actual impact is so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12363s"},{"start_seconds":12370,"text":"severe and so you know obviously Auditors really kind of help our projects as they think about these issues and figuring out hey how can I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12370s"},{"start_seconds":12378,"text":"catch all of my vulnerabilities and so I'm really excited to kind of dig into this with you all and I guess to start","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12378s"},{"start_seconds":12385,"text":"it off I'd love to start with Robert and kind of go down the row here what are the typical vulnerabilities that you all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12385s"},{"start_seconds":12392,"text":"are seeing lately and you know obviously I'd like to hear if there's anything kind of specific to near or maybe just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12392s"},{"start_seconds":12400,"text":"across the board what are the big trends you're seeing yeah that's a really good question I think when we do audits we kind of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12400s"},{"start_seconds":12408,"text":"categorize our findings and I'd say two broad categories one would be chain specific vulnerabilities which deal with the underlying nuances of the chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12408s"},{"start_seconds":12416,"text":"itself and then there's also broader logic class vulnerabilities for example if you have a lending protocol you might have some sort of collateralization","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12416s"},{"start_seconds":12423,"text":"issue which would be applicable to any chain regardless of where you build that lending protocol on the other hand near specifically you might have issues with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12423s"},{"start_seconds":12430,"text":"for example State Management because nears State tracking means that you need to pay rent explicitly for storage but unfortunately it's like the way that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12430s"},{"start_seconds":12439,"text":"that happens is by sending near to the contract as opposed to um having like I'd say a more sane model","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12439s"},{"start_seconds":12447,"text":"of like the person paying for the transaction paying for it implicitly right so so that creates an issue where you know if you don't properly track","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12447s"},{"start_seconds":12454,"text":"state then you might have a potential discrepancy where someone might be able to get more State than they otherwise should I'd say the second you know major","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12454s"},{"start_seconds":12462,"text":"class of vulnerability we see on there would be anything to do with asynchronix execution right near is very unique in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12462s"},{"start_seconds":12470,"text":"its execution model whenever you do a cross-contract call it creates your receipt and then that gets sent to another Shard and it's like asynchronous in nature","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12470s"},{"start_seconds":12478,"text":"um and I can think of at least one audit where you know I'd say like 75 of the bugs we found were due to disrepancies in how they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12478s"},{"start_seconds":12487,"text":"track state especially across callbacks so yes Robert made the excellent division we also think in these terms so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12487s"},{"start_seconds":12496,"text":"same specific vulnerabilities and vulnerabilities that are related to the business logic so what is really important is to find issues that our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12496s"},{"start_seconds":12504,"text":"clients have missed when they were specifying for example uh the properties that their implementations uh wanted to hold","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12504s"},{"start_seconds":12512,"text":"so this is really important another issue that we usually find uh has to do with numerical problems for example","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12512s"},{"start_seconds":12520,"text":"decimals are not handled correctly so from the 10 specific vulnerabilities I think Robert covered it really well so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12520s"},{"start_seconds":12528,"text":"it has to do with the storage um stating that it's really important in near and yeah I think that's it and also the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12528s"},{"start_seconds":12536,"text":"the asynchronous execution which to be honest I was expecting it when I was starting with Mir to see more issues","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12536s"},{"start_seconds":12544,"text":"related to the Sacramento's execution but yeah for some reason uh the people handled quite well","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12544s"},{"start_seconds":12551,"text":"yeah from our experience as well like business logic is a huge and it's like a chain agnostic and definitely having a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12551s"},{"start_seconds":12559,"text":"near specific vulnerabilities just general vulnerabilities and business logic with the most interesting stuff is hidden but yeah just uh General like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12559s"},{"start_seconds":12567,"text":"missing ownership checks uh sign your checks is something that we deal with yeah I guess all our experience are","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12567s"},{"start_seconds":12574,"text":"pretty similar and yeah the most things I find are related to the contracts logic and if it's actually performing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12574s"},{"start_seconds":12582,"text":"what it's supposed to be doing and regarding uh near specific things it's uh yeah probably promises and the fact","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12582s"},{"start_seconds":12590,"text":"that cross-contract calls are asynchronous which is different uh and unique across the whole chains and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12590s"},{"start_seconds":12598,"text":"just wanted to add that it's really important and this is something that we find quite often is uh how the failure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12598s"},{"start_seconds":12606,"text":"of these promises is handled oh yeah this is an issue that usually comes up when it comes to promises awesome thank you for that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12606s"},{"start_seconds":12615,"text":"um I guess as we kind of talk about you know near specific um obviously uh I would love to know from your perspective do you feel like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12615s"},{"start_seconds":12623,"text":"there are some is there a certain smart contract languages that are more secure than others that's a tricky question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12623s"},{"start_seconds":12632,"text":"I personally like to think of programming languages as just the tools it's not like one's better and one's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12632s"},{"start_seconds":12639,"text":"worse like all of them are turning complete so you pretty much can code anything in it and so you can have the most secure language and still have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12639s"},{"start_seconds":12647,"text":"vulnerabilities in there but if I had to choose I guess that would be rust because out of the box uh it's the most","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12647s"},{"start_seconds":12654,"text":"it it has the the most security features just ready uh ready out of the box but it's not like because you're using grass","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12654s"},{"start_seconds":12662,"text":"then you're suddenly secure uh I cannot do this so I guess there are more mature languages and less mature","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12662s"},{"start_seconds":12671,"text":"languages and there are also languages that require more verbosity and maybe they expose hey the semantics better for example a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12671s"},{"start_seconds":12679,"text":"rust is more verbose but I guess it doesn't hide you know how the pointers are handled uh compared to solid for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12679s"},{"start_seconds":12687,"text":"example which we usually find that you know sorry programmers uh ignore some of the features of the language maybe because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12687s"},{"start_seconds":12695,"text":"also the developers are not as mature because you know the language is not so well tested or it's not you know it hasn't been for so long","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12695s"},{"start_seconds":12704,"text":"I guess kind of you know on that I mean obviously we're you know utilizing JavaScript now with the JavaScript sck","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12704s"},{"start_seconds":12713,"text":"that's been around a little bit longer and um you know in terms of if you're referring to you know someone who's a bit or a language that's more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12713s"},{"start_seconds":12721,"text":"established um I mean what are your thoughts on kind of you know opening this whole new door with the JavaScript SDK","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12721s"},{"start_seconds":12730,"text":"anyone okay I mean I can comment I guess I'll talk a bit about the previous question too um because I had some thoughts there","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12730s"},{"start_seconds":12736,"text":"I think one thing that we we think a lot about as Auditors is how do we make languages structurally safer right I think while it's true","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12736s"},{"start_seconds":12745,"text":"um as we mentioned before that you know you can write bugs in any language I think one thing that we care strongly about is how do you make a language in a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12745s"},{"start_seconds":12753,"text":"way such that the default path or the easy path is the safe one because I think if you do it that way if it's like the easiest solution is the safe one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12753s"},{"start_seconds":12761,"text":"then people are going to write safer contracts right and that's something that we care really strongly about we've published or I've written like a number of blog posts you know about this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12761s"},{"start_seconds":12770,"text":"General topic um and I guess I'd also add that there's kind of this distinction between Russ broadly and I'd say also like rust per","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12770s"},{"start_seconds":12778,"text":"chain right so for example when you're talking about using rust in near I'd say it's like rust plus whatever the neared buying gen SDK is right near has many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12778s"},{"start_seconds":12787,"text":"specific parts of it which make the rust when you're writing like new your contracts like specific to near as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12787s"},{"start_seconds":12795,"text":"opposed to say Solana right like Solana has extended DSL in the form of anchor which is like a whole different language compared to when you're writing near","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12795s"},{"start_seconds":12802,"text":"contracts um I guess going back to the like JavaScript SDK I mean I personally am not a huge fan of that just because I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12802s"},{"start_seconds":12811,"text":"mean I think Russ is a really good language and I like I think Russ is probably better like it has Type safety it's you know a prettier language in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12811s"},{"start_seconds":12819,"text":"general it it like enables many of these features that you like there's a reason why people use rust you know when they're writing memory critical or like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12819s"},{"start_seconds":12828,"text":"safety critical systems um but yeah I'm curious what your thoughts are on that yeah I guess at the end of the day it's important that you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12828s"},{"start_seconds":12835,"text":"can focus on business logic and Building Products rather than doing other stuff which is connected to language and others it's good to have proper","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12835s"},{"start_seconds":12843,"text":"documentation proper tools and clear understanding how it works and security from the books which is not everything","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12843s"},{"start_seconds":12849,"text":"possible but it's good to have and focus on building rather than thinking about all other problems and language may cause","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12849s"},{"start_seconds":12858,"text":"awesome thank you and you know to your point I I do see your uh perspective of yeah Russ is very solid when it comes to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12858s"},{"start_seconds":12866,"text":"security and I'm hoping that you know with this whole like kind of bringing in all of the JavaScript developers like we'll be able to maybe bring in more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12866s"},{"start_seconds":12874,"text":"like knowledge and just people who have more experience and have that perspective right um instead of just maybe people who've been complacent with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12874s"},{"start_seconds":12882,"text":"security all along um I guess you know obviously something that you know if they're builders in the audience or you know something that is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12882s"},{"start_seconds":12891,"text":"very top of mind is it's extremely difficult to get an audit right now um it is very costly there's huge long","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12891s"},{"start_seconds":12897,"text":"Waits and obviously as the ecosystems keep growing and projects the number of projects grows exponentially like I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12897s"},{"start_seconds":12907,"text":"would love to kind of ask about how you guys are thinking about scaling your practices and you know obviously as","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12907s"},{"start_seconds":12913,"text":"we're really entering this um idea of like audits being a bottleneck like what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12913s"},{"start_seconds":12920,"text":"do you hope to achieve to kind of solve that problem location so scaling at least the way we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12920s"},{"start_seconds":12929,"text":"perceive this concept is quite tricky to get it right especially when it comes to audits because we we don't want to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12929s"},{"start_seconds":12936,"text":"compromise uh the quality of our work so scaling and hiring many Engineers were not","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12936s"},{"start_seconds":12943,"text":"were not ready to to take the responsibility they don't they're not knowledgeable enough to audit code uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12943s"},{"start_seconds":12950,"text":"you know might have results that we don't want so scaling unfortunately is something that we have to live with at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12950s"},{"start_seconds":12958,"text":"least for now or you know until we find a better way to perform what it's more precisely I guess it's more about complex work","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12958s"},{"start_seconds":12966,"text":"starting from standards methodologies what we have now in like solidity and evm based chains mostly and having the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12966s"},{"start_seconds":12974,"text":"clear standard what audit is what should be checked and for everyone to do kind of basic checks because for now audit is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12974s"},{"start_seconds":12982,"text":"something that's like perceived in different ways for your different Auditors and we don't have clear standards what should be covered also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12982s"},{"start_seconds":12989,"text":"it's about knowledge sharing as far as we don't have this everyone does what they want and what they think is property I guess this Foundation we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12989s"},{"start_seconds":12997,"text":"should create like standards like tools methodologies uh that's that's already working in web 2 and starting in evm","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=12997s"},{"start_seconds":13005,"text":"stuff so I guess like knowledge sharing and doing this first it will help to scale but for sure getting audit now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13005s"},{"start_seconds":13012,"text":"especially for like near and other eras teams is not that easy as getting that for evm based chains yeah yeah absolutely um there's no way","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13012s"},{"start_seconds":13021,"text":"around it out it's take time they need to take time we need to understand the the project we need to know what it's supposed to be doing and then we need to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13021s"},{"start_seconds":13028,"text":"verify everything that that the client wants us to want us to agree so the only natural way to scale is to have more of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13028s"},{"start_seconds":13035,"text":"us and there is do you think it's possible yeah I well I wish but as we can see we're we're still um uh have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13035s"},{"start_seconds":13044,"text":"have a lot of uh new places to to to uh to to to to hire and um uh and don't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13044s"},{"start_seconds":13052,"text":"know I I honestly think that uh we should be focusing on hiring new people like to maybe accepting like no sharing to to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13052s"},{"start_seconds":13062,"text":"because there's a there is a lot of um Security Experts in web 2 and the only thing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13062s"},{"start_seconds":13070,"text":"um preventing them from joining us here at web3 is that they don't know yet about blockchain how it works and I guess we should change that uh in the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13070s"},{"start_seconds":13078,"text":"first place and then work from that I guess shortage of talents in web 2 is still like huge especially in security","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13078s"},{"start_seconds":13085,"text":"we're not talking about uh like web 3 security just think how many projects on the market now and how many auditors","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13085s"},{"start_seconds":13093,"text":"yeah I'd actually disagree a little bit I think that there are things that projects can do to make their you know to make it easier to get audited right I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13093s"},{"start_seconds":13101,"text":"mean for for us at least as an auditor it's much easier to read code you understand code that is well documented","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13101s"},{"start_seconds":13108,"text":"you know follows good practices has you know same variable names you know if if you put in the time as a project to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13108s"},{"start_seconds":13115,"text":"actually care about security and to write your code in a way that is easy for someone else to understand then I think it's going to be easier for us to perform an audit it'll be faster it'll","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13115s"},{"start_seconds":13124,"text":"be cheaper and it'll overall be better for you um so I mean I think you know at least for us we prefer to work with projects that actually do care about security and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13124s"},{"start_seconds":13133,"text":"I think that is definitely something that you can do to you know make the process a little bit less painful right and there is also the thing that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13133s"},{"start_seconds":13141,"text":"we discussed uh which is the audit Readiness so you got a slot to be audited but is your project ready to be audited I don't know what the take of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13141s"},{"start_seconds":13149,"text":"the others here about projects that you know are ready to be audited from your company but they're not ready because they haven't for example specified all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13149s"},{"start_seconds":13158,"text":"the properties that their implementation wants to follow projects come for like really auditing or like working other than just","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13158s"},{"start_seconds":13166,"text":"comparing documentation on what they have in real code and it's not only about others because a lot of projects just do this at the end of the year like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13166s"},{"start_seconds":13174,"text":"before releasing not from the scratch when they are planning the architecture and doing all this security stuff before not after they've done everything and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13174s"},{"start_seconds":13183,"text":"they like okay security just like Quick Fix and let's go unfortunately that's the perception on the market for major parts but still it's getting better if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13183s"},{"start_seconds":13192,"text":"comparing to five years ago where the security was like nice feature to have rather than the necessity and I like that now like more Regulators let's say","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13192s"},{"start_seconds":13200,"text":"like crypto Regulators requiring that like Venture funds exchanges platforms it's getting more more","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13200s"},{"start_seconds":13208,"text":"um demanded but still awesome so I guess you know that's a really good thing into my next question","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13208s"},{"start_seconds":13216,"text":"which is I wanted to ask you know for the builders who are you know interested in maybe like getting an audit or even just building a project right at what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13216s"},{"start_seconds":13225,"text":"point should they start thinking about the auto process um I mean I guess to your point like they should just start thinking about it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13225s"},{"start_seconds":13233,"text":"from day Zero um and you know to Robert's Point as well like build your code in a way that is easily auditable but um I mean you know like in Earnest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13233s"},{"start_seconds":13241,"text":"once again it takes a lot of capital to kind of pay for it and it does take a while so um you know from your perspective like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13241s"},{"start_seconds":13248,"text":"at what point should projects start thinking about seriously thinking about getting an audit with the first line of code","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13248s"},{"start_seconds":13259,"text":"security is not something you can say that it's done for your project it's basically a continuous process so if you want an audit that's cool that's great","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13259s"},{"start_seconds":13267,"text":"you should be audited but if you start thinking about security from the very beginning and then you can maybe uh go to go through this iteratively so maybe","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13267s"},{"start_seconds":13276,"text":"you you'll be updated more than once which is also a good idea um and that way you will be able to build with security in mind uh which is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13276s"},{"start_seconds":13285,"text":"always the better approach right they shouldn't developers should make it easy as Robert said for the Auditors you know to do as well as they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13285s"},{"start_seconds":13294,"text":"can that's very important yeah I feel like starting as early as possible is always good right I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13294s"},{"start_seconds":13302,"text":"at the very least you can shop around you can talk to multiple other firms and then you can get competitive quotes for your for your project right so at the very least you know if you start earlier","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13302s"},{"start_seconds":13310,"text":"right instead of right before the deadline there I think there's a pretty big monetary incentive that you know you'll have a cheaper audit um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo&t=13310s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=5SPUtzpbIIo","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/5SPUtzpbIIo"}