{"id":"1GoNn-rJwcY","title":"The Invisible Pipes  How Infra Makes Interoperability Possible","description":"Fragmented blockchains limit communication. This session explores \"protocol plumbing,\" the hidden infrastructure that acts as the glue for seamless data exchange and functionality across different blockchain networks.  \n\nPanel: Yair Cleper, Lava Network; Jacques Xu, Evmos; Karel Kubat, Union; Barry Plunkett, Skip\n\nModerator: Keenan Olsen, Allora Labs\n\nThe often unseen but crucial infrastructure that makes blockchain interoperability possible. Our panel of experts from Lava, Evmos, Union, and Skip discuss the challenges and innovations in creating seamless multi-chain experiences. Learn about the latest advancements in RPC layers, chain abstraction, and the future of cross-chain communication.\n\nTakeaways\n• Role of RPC in Interoperability: Reliable RPC (Remote Procedure Call) layers are essential for supporting multi-chain applications and ensuring smooth access to blockchain data.\n• Chain Abstraction Simplifies User Experience: By aggregating balances and transactions across chains, chain abstraction technology aims to eliminate the need for complex bridging processes.\n• IBC as a Model for Secure Interoperability: The Inter-Blockchain Communication (IBC) protocol in the Cosmos ecosystem offers a battle-tested, secure method for cross-chain transactions, setting a standard for other blockchains.\n• Collaboration Among Teams is Key: Effective collaboration among various blockchain projects and protocols is critical to overcoming interoperability challenges and driving innovation.\n• Future Prospects: The panelists envision a future where cross-chain interactions are as seamless as using the web today, with integrated ecosystems and user-friendly applications becoming the norm.\n\nTimestamps\n0:00 - Introduction\nOverview of the topic and introduction of panelists.\n0:32 - What is Infrastructure in Blockchain?\nPanelists provide their definitions and discuss the role of infrastructure.\n1:08 - Challenges for Multi-Chain Application Developers\nDiscussion on the difficulties developers face when building multi-chain applications.\n2:46 - Importance of RPC Layers\nThe role of RPC layers in ensuring reliable access to blockchain data.\n4:03 - Initial Steps in Interoperability\nHow projects can begin addressing interoperability challenges.\n6:17 - IBC and Its Advantages\nBenefits of the Inter-Blockchain Communication protocol in the Cosmos ecosystem.\n9:41 - Ethereum's Influence and Limitations\nThe impact of Ethereum's design on cross-chain interoperability.\n11:07 - Interoperability Across Different Blockchains\nComparing IBC with other interoperability solutions.\n12:29 - The Role of ZK Technology in Interoperability\nHow zero-knowledge technology is enhancing cross-chain interactions.\n13:25 - The Evolution of Multi-Chain Solutions\nDiscussion on the growing trend towards multi-chain interoperability.\n14:30 - The Future of Blockchain Interoperability\nPanelists' visions for the future of cross-chain communication.\n17:36 - Importance of Finality in Transactions\nHow different chains handle transaction finality and its impact on interoperability.\n19:18 - Collaboration Among Blockchain Teams\nHow collaboration is driving progress in interoperability solutions.\n21:11 - Simplifying Interoperability for Developers\nThe need for simpler, more unified solutions for developers.\n22:28 - Concerns About Over-Complication\nPotential risks of creating overly complex interoperability systems.\n24:08 - Final Remarks\nPanelists share their hopes and predictions for the next year in blockchain interoperability.\n\nChain Abstraction Day at EthCC 2024 in Brussels on July 10th, bringing together NEAR and Agoric for our third installment in the year-long series.\n\nJoin NEAR's community:\nWebsite: https://near.org/\nNEAR AI: https://near.ai/\nTwitter:   / nearprotocol  \nBlog: https://near.org/blog/\nMedium:   / nearprotocol  \nGitHub: https://github.com/near \nDev Docs: https://docs.near.org/\n#NEAR #nearprotocol #NEARAI","channel_name":"NEAR Protocol","published_at":"2024-07-16T00:00:00.000Z","thumbnail_url":"https://img.youtube.com/vi/1GoNn-rJwcY/hqdefault.jpg","transcript_text":"um so we are going to be talking about the invisible pipes and that's infrastructure these are the pieces and the key pieces of technology that actually make all this interoperable and abstraction technology work um as before I'm going to talk a little bit about what we consider infrastructure let the panelists introduce themselves and what their project does and then we'll just dive into it and see where the day takes us um the again setting the stage letting us all get on the same page um I'll let everyone kind of give their own definition of infrastructure because I kind of already did it um so panelist without further Ado introduce yourself and give us a little description of what your project does for sure uh hello everyone super excited to be here my name is yayer klepper I'm a co-founder and initial core contributor at lava lava network uh lava building a access layer for any chain helping existing upcoming chains to bootstrap the own infra we started with RPC apis and going to indexing uh oracles and any type of data in blockchain yeah uh I'm Jack hello again uh so I work for C fmos so what we do is provide evm interface Into The Interchange space so just making easier for developers to build applications that are natively crashing in the cosmos space hi guys uh hin from Union one of the co-founder um engine in the engineering site uh we build a cross chain uh uh blockchain to do seamless uh Cain interaction where we try to abstract uh the idea of moving any message from one chain to another um using ZK to make it fast and cheap I'm Barry from skip uh we build uh interoperability infrastructure that Powers a couple hundred million dollars of volume across all of the major ecosystems many of the front ends that you probably use in Cosmos and a number of them outside as well all right awesome well thank you guys um so for people here who might not be like Ultra deep in the trenches building applications day-to- day can you give them a an overview or an idea of if you're an application developer and you know Cosmos is a great example an application developer who has to consider all of these different multi-chain challenges and problems what is the like what does the sort of um landscape look like for a developer who has to build an application that's multi terrible terrible like you have different blockchain with different program languages different consensus mechanisms in Cosmos this is better it's better because everyone uses tendermint but it's it's terrible I mean I'm sure like Al goric you guys understand cuz like you're doing you know you do automation across These Chains like again you don't have the same language the same tooling that will work across the different blockchain platforms yeah I think like you know interoperability um has to work together with RPC right uh you know we started um we jumped into web 3 me and my co-founder uh after um couple of initiative in web two and we realized that basically the infrastructure is uh and it's very very hard to develop different apps running nodes how do you get access to the data and the very core implementation of R right is kind of negligable and and you know it's kind of Forgotten layer today um how do you write how do you support this thesis of chain obstruction if you need to run a node in each on every chain how do you support the chain itself when you need to run after different providers make sure of the quality of service up time reliability and so forth so I think interoperability cannot go as along without the RPC layer yeah we think about it just in terms of like if you're building a new app what is the first interoperability problem you have and that is getting actual users and liquidity to your chain um and you shouldn't have to worry about where those users are or what chain they're on or what token they might have or whether there's a direct Bridge from your chain to that one and you also shouldn't have to try to understand those things uh Bridges themselves are massively complex a lot of these solver networks that now people are creating are massively complex so the way we think about it is just like how can we build um an API that makes it so that developers can have a sort of a single API call to get a user from anywhere to their chain in one transaction and like everything we do kind of works backwards just from that yeah I think yeah I think it's exactly that so the IDE is you we try to unify like any chain any liquidity any users anywhere any assets or any protocol that exist on one chain you want to access it from another chain and specifically from um a protocol developer perspective it's nowadays extremely difficult if you want to achieve that so if you want to tap into uh Unis from Cosmos there is no there is no trivial way of like sending a message getting the asset back you have to know the underlying and um so so abstracting this like in Internet basically submitting some a request to a website web to stuff where you have the router that actually move the packet for you uh when you access google.com you you have no idea what's going on under the hood the only thing you care is having the page uh shown at the end with the result you expect and that's I think what what we try to achieve in web 3 right now um so it's really difficult but all the abstraction will allow the the end user not to feel any friction when dealing with one chain or another so how does something like IBC or interacting across chains in IBC compared to interoperability between something like um Bitcoin salana or ethereum salana I guess is a better probably better for example I think if I may start you know because we are first commer to web 3 in general but we are super um we have strong expertise in Tech cyber security and I think what we fell in love in in Cosmos and IBC specifically is it was uh battle tested uh I think never got hacked and um you know a lot yeah until today I know tou good that's what you say uh and um you know for us the most important thing was the execution because if you want to go out there and build something and I know in this space we like to invent ourself every Monday and Sunday um but if you have a piece of technology that can get you faster to where you are um this is the why we actually chose uh to work with IBC and it proves itself on the one hand uh man it is coming soon but on the other hand you know the overload of uh starting two years ago and now only getting to the main net obviously it's coming with a lot of um you know a lot of challenges let's say uh yeah that's my pros and Co yeah IBC is just different it's a different animal like basically L zero just copy IBC line verification that's like Cosmos thing the thing is with IBC is uh the chain itself is aware of the ISA Bridge which is a very different um system than all the other non- Cosmos bridging Solutions cuz they like for those Solutions you have a third party and you're trusting that third party to do to verify the bridging or ass or message or whatever what what IBC and Cosmos like is chain native the chain recognizes it so like that's why we don't have hacking issues that's why the tech is good too but again I think that makes a big difference that the chain itself is aw that is bridge and is aware of the existence of other uh blockchains in the space yeah I mean I I think in general like a lot of interop problems come out of the fact that like ethereum interop is in general um like ethereum has been massively successful as a cultural project and massively successful at exporting eth as an asset that other people care about but because the chain has slow finality and Incredibly high gas fees and basically no ability to scale you end up in this world where like everybody wants eth but it's really hard to get out of eth and you can't do the kinds of routing things that you can on the cosmos side to like take a token that's on one chain loop it back through the chain where it came from to wherever you're going so that you get like the correct version or the right version the version that's useful um and then but because eth has been so successful as an asset like everybody else inherits this pain because they all want eth um just copy e like they don't you have to wait 16 minutes for finality or you need to like bootstrap a solver Network that you have to trust and they're going to take a percentage of your volume because they're taking on risk and like it's just a outcome for everyone and like IBC has completely avoided this tendermint is like the unsung hero of this story because tenderman is what gives us fast finality it's not like a property of IBC it's a property of tenderman so shout out Jan um and I think all of the like other kind of cross ecosystem interop stories are fraught for somewhat different reasons but basically usually because um the asset like people people don't care about I can do anything on any chain people care about like I can hold some asset that I value and like I can use some specific application and usually um it's not until something pops off in another ecosystem where people are like oh like we should have interop here and like this is a priority so like salana is a great example now where all of a sudden people in Cosmos want to hold Soul or they want to buy salana shitcoins but you know a year ago that wasn't the case and so there weren't that many people working on it I know the composable team kind of was I know the union guys are and like I just think over time as people are building blockchains in like more formulaic ways and we get the infrastructure bootstrapped for the existing ecosystems that made some of these technical choices early on like we're going to get to a point where it's going to be really good um so I don't I think it's like kind of whack right now but I'm pretty optimistic that's that's shout out to Jay though I didn't I didn't miss that yeah I think so IBC is just an example of like an interop ability protocol it's not like a different thing it's just one of the canonical implementation we have seen emerging in Cosmos and it's probably successful because it has been built in the chain uh SDK itself the difference with all the blockchains right now is that need to build on top of the Bas VM which usually have like pre compiles you cannot do the the math that the counterparty is doing or in a really gas inefficient way um so with ZK I mean that's how e is becoming a bit less shy interupt otherwise like you it would have still been a mess uh so I think I think that's why tender Min and and IPC specifically is successful it's because it has been built in so whenever you want to deploy chain you have directly access to this uh the information of the other chain natively um and abstracting over the specific the specificities of ibcs to make it like multi-chain capable through like uh the text like ZK I think is a good way to uh show that IBC is not only Cosmos you know like it's really a standard really abstract you can implement it on on many other chains yeah c just implement the IBC yeah let that sink in for a minute that's cool though like that's the thing right like the fact that kadano itself has like the foundation the chain is aware of the cosmos space look I know no one's a big fan of kadano here but hey it's they still they peers they build stuff they do things ice cream swap anybody so but yeah I mean those are all those are all really good points um it's kind of almost remarkable because it wasn't that long ago that the thought of teams like dedicating time to figure out how to make these multi-chain Solutions work was unheard of people trying to actively you know go from ethereum to salana or Cosmos to salana to Avalanche to whatever other chain you want and back um so why do you think this uh you know this trend in interoperability has sort of been has sort of been picking up bar you mentioned that like something takes off in one space and then gets forked to another but you know where did where did interoperability start where did this kick off and you know why is this trending I will touch just um you know our perspective uh and of of how the ecosystem evolve so when 3 years ago when I jumped into web 3 everyone was telling me like uh it's going to be a consolidation right like one chain to rule them all uh I think Barry was talking about it before the uh first mover advantage of eth uh and the ethereum uh ecosystem obviously but today we see you know different uh um Concepts coming up with hundred and thousands different chains basically every this every uh every one of these chains represent different communities right and everyone wants at the end of the day they're not using only dollar they don't use only Euro they're using a lot of different uh currencies that represent the world right and if you build this kind of community you need to make sure that uh you have the real tools to move assets around them to make sure that you have the TX stock that give you the scalability availability to bring the billion DBS and users to use this basic layer on the other hand um um you know keep developing and improve the tech I think OS is doing a great job on that with the evm and um um you know uh we chose Cosmos because once we were comparing that to subnets at the time and to par um par chains and we see this is you know where um where all the devs are where is all the most documented um um Tex stack there and I think now the interesting thing that we presented recently with lava is the pools right everyone can every chain can develop and introduce its own incentive pool and invite providers to join the pools so at the end of the month they're receiving rewards based on the quality of service uh and we did that successfully with Axel we have a great partnership here with OS and near and uh yeah I think um it really represent the interruptibility as the base layer of you know how do you consume the data it's the most excited I've ever been about a lava pool but really cool they do a sky like if anyone want to jump out of a plane into a lava pool yeah I just I just came up with our pool party and everyone who uh you know take a tweet with the merch can uh can win a Skydive so uh you know nobody knows you here guys in the crow zone so if you ever want to jump into a volcano now's your chance yeah I think um the there's like the positive hopeful story about why interop has become an enormous focus and then there's the sort of like pessimistic black pill story like the the black pill story is nobody still has really figured out like what are the unique and compelling things that you can do with like blockchains and crypto rails but they have figured out that nobody else has figured that out too and so uh people start to view other protocols is rent seeking and ecosystems is rent seeking and they're like well you know if a blockchain is going to be rent seeking thing like I'm going to be my own blockchain like I'm not going to let somebody else rent seek from me and that drives a huge um movement towards sovereignty and I think the other thing is just like we're now and this is like the more optimistic story like we're now at a point where um the uh stack and by building your own chain enables you to experiment much much faster and do things in very different ways and like I think is sort of this evolutionary Trend to people doing more stuff to try to figure out okay what are the unique kinds of communities and applications we can build with crypto rails and like what can we do if we can make those applications accountable to their users in ways that like um we we couldn't do with centralized software so um and I think both of those things drive people to say okay for our community we need our own chain and then like the need for interop just arises from that like and especially when we meet customers um it's often times they've decided they're launching a rollup or a chain or whatever they're like cool I need to get users here now it's like after that decision that's the first thing and then the interoperability obviously just follows yeah I think I think it's also more difficult than than in web 2 because um uh servers right now when they do interrupt between them they all trust uh the each other basically so you don't have to account for any anything if you get respond from an IP or a domain name you know uh you do an RPC you get a result that's fine like you don't have to to to do any math to verify the result or whatever uh in web3 it's really difficult because you have to account for the difference in consensus of the each chain uh and the user don't want to to deal with that at all like the the the the finality level of the counterparty like who cares it takes 12 minutes to be finalized I want my asset to move like my message to go through so um dealing with that like abstracting that again from from the user search that uh uh we offshore the risk of finality for instance to the networks of of solvers uh being built right now uh would probably uh help a lot in the journey and how important is collaboration amongst all the different teams working on these solutions to actually like drive them forward and make them successful as implementations you can say yeah so I can give an example I think um so at Union for instance we don't try to to do everything um as I just mentioned abstracting the the of Shoring the the risk to third party um market makers or however you want to call them is uh something we don't want to run ourselves so it's basically building a simless API where uh we provide full finality guarantee like an ISP or something you can imagine you know the the data will arrive at some point get an acknowledgement you know the data has been verified against the counterparty so you cannot be wed like you cannot be uh sensored or anything uh and and then we provide like apis for third party to actually like the experts of like doing Market making for instance will be able to hook into and and do their best uh to have that so like trying to um uh uh collaborate with other team of course but uh keep doing what you do at the best thing you can do like not trying to solve everything we could probably do a whole panel on collaboration just between agor and Skip these guys are great yeah I appreciate you guys saying that um I think it's called orchestration layer yeah we that's later we we think about this um again I have like the the positive story is I think that we're moving moving towards a world where it is much more common for uh different teams to to collaborate the thing that I worry a lot about in interoperability though especially with this move to chain abstraction is like the way we are getting to train abstraction is going to be with like this new like layer of many different kind of like protocolized middlemen that now sit between things and everybody sort of wants to be Monopoly and everybody like is going to become a toll booth over time and every's going to like try to get their slice you've got like the solver Network and they're going to want their slice and you've got the bridge aggregator and they're going to want their slice and you got the bridge and you know it's like and like how complicated is all this going to get um and at that point how much money is going to be left at the end of the day for the user and then people like oh well like no it moves towards the thing where people pay the most but interop because all of these standards are are not standard uh by any means and and because there's such enormous Network effects like get TS towards this kind of monopolization um and I think we have to work really hard and teams have to do a lot to try to counteract that so like one thing that we're doing is we've built this extremely complex system that Aggregates dozens of different dexes 10 different Bridges at this point like um and creates compound routes out of them so you can do things that no one individual Bridge can do that is like a very powerful system some ways it's like kind of a scary system because you've got like a protocol on one side and they're like we have no idea where our users come from and then like you have us and we're like don't worry about it and then on the other side there's all this complexity we're just like open sourcing that whole thing um and we're going to be inviting people to contribute to it to add new kind of mechanisms for it and like the reason is that we want to try to make it accountable to integrators because we think that that's the more valuable thing for us to do over time but because we also think that that's like the behavior that we need to model for the interrup space so yeah you know I think um the key the key important thing here is uh keep it simple right because if we're going to over complicate um uh you know it's there's no end to that we see so many new Protocols are coming up and I think uh chain obstruction is a is will play a key role in the next years for um determining how what protocol going to going to build how it's going to make us much more easier for devs to build on each and every chain and to kind of fulfill their Vision right at the end of the day we like to uh make this analogy as if uh you're surfing the web today right you have no idea when you're typing www what is the version of the HTTP you're using right what is tcpip where the website is located is the gcp AWS and this kind of obstruction is something that uh um you know is crucial to uh make the next Bull Run much more uh easy and much more adoptable adaptable in terms of the different daps using that and yeah and uh obviously I will relate to the basic layer of read write data yeah I'm not from the cosmos space but you guys suck at coordinating it's a it's a sovereignty thesis you guys do your own L ones but honestly like you guys got to work together a little bit more like none of those chains know what they're doing like none of the chains are like I don't know like the like the EDM Foundation is very ESS of pushing for like Improvement improvements and something about Cosmo again I think there's a lot of great Technical Innovations but it's not being pushed in a certain direction and there is no like right now like with the a you know they like Grant Venture initiative is happening a little bit more but yeah like I don't know Cosmos got to coordinate a little bit better we got the uh signal for we got 1 minute left so in uh closing remarks um think about what is some version or some aspect of the sort of best case scenario for inter operability what does it look like one year from now if things go according to your wildest dreams uh one year from now like probably not that much is that different I don't know 10 10 seem too long like 10 years seem too long 5 years years didn't seem long enough like I do think um the the thing that we're going to get to in like one or two years is between major ecosystems or major chains where you do have a lot of kind of shared action and shared users you're going to have these kinds of very seamless so I can do something with my money on one chain and and and it's going to work on the other we already have that in Cosmos like this works you can buy an nft on stargaze from Noble like in one transaction and that's sick I think you're going to start seeing that elsewhere like other places are going to catch up to Cosmos in that respect I think things between ecosystems are still going to feel pretty horrible yeah for uh in my perspective I want to see more and more daps building and more uh actually uh usage uh that that we have uh obviously uh in the last half a year we start supporting more and more chains with lava and in a few weeks we're going to have the Manet so I'm super excited to see in one year how we support hundreds of chain because basically everyone can spin up his own chain spec support that and solve the RPC neglected layer yeah so one year from now yeah I I hope we will be able to basically uh es keep to go through Union have unified Cosmos with any e L2 or L1 hopefully uh fully finalized uh just l decentralized no just a third party no way to censor you and uh yeah uh like Barry said I don't think a year is going to change out that much but if you talk about like five years hopefully we have like games that you could just play you have like Cosmos gaming blockchains that you could then use that NY collateralize it take out usdc Loans pay your mortgage that's the future you know like so yeah awesome all right well hold each one of these people accountable verbatim to what they said is going to happen in the next year and uh thank you guys so much for shedding some light on the interoperability infrastructure and now think of your devs next time you're swapping some tokens these people put a lot of work into making all that stuff barely work so thank you so much and I'll hand it back off to David","transcript_synced_at":"2026-11-03T05:44:35.212Z","segments":[{"start_seconds":8,"text":"um so we are going to be talking about the invisible pipes and that's infrastructure these are the pieces and the key pieces of technology that actually make all this interoperable and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=8s"},{"start_seconds":16,"text":"abstraction technology work um as before I'm going to talk a little bit about what we consider infrastructure let the panelists introduce themselves and what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=16s"},{"start_seconds":24,"text":"their project does and then we'll just dive into it and see where the day takes us um the again setting the stage letting us all get on the same page um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=24s"},{"start_seconds":32,"text":"I'll let everyone kind of give their own definition of infrastructure because I kind of already did it um so panelist without further Ado introduce yourself and give us a little description of what","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=32s"},{"start_seconds":41,"text":"your project does for sure uh hello everyone super excited to be here my name is yayer klepper I'm a co-founder","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=41s"},{"start_seconds":49,"text":"and initial core contributor at lava lava network uh lava building a access layer for any chain helping existing","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=49s"},{"start_seconds":58,"text":"upcoming chains to bootstrap the own infra we started with RPC apis and going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=58s"},{"start_seconds":65,"text":"to indexing uh oracles and any type of data in blockchain yeah uh I'm Jack hello again","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=65s"},{"start_seconds":73,"text":"uh so I work for C fmos so what we do is provide evm interface Into The Interchange space so just making easier","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=73s"},{"start_seconds":80,"text":"for developers to build applications that are natively crashing in the cosmos space hi guys uh hin from Union one of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=80s"},{"start_seconds":90,"text":"the co-founder um engine in the engineering site uh we build a cross chain uh uh blockchain to do seamless uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=90s"},{"start_seconds":100,"text":"Cain interaction where we try to abstract uh the idea of moving any message from one chain to another um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=100s"},{"start_seconds":108,"text":"using ZK to make it fast and cheap I'm Barry from skip uh we build uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=108s"},{"start_seconds":117,"text":"interoperability infrastructure that Powers a couple hundred million dollars of volume across all of the major ecosystems many of the front ends that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=117s"},{"start_seconds":126,"text":"you probably use in Cosmos and a number of them outside as well all right awesome well thank you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=126s"},{"start_seconds":132,"text":"guys um so for people here who might not be like Ultra deep in the trenches building applications day-to- day can you give them a an overview or an idea","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=132s"},{"start_seconds":141,"text":"of if you're an application developer and you know Cosmos is a great example an application developer who has to consider all of these different","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=141s"},{"start_seconds":148,"text":"multi-chain challenges and problems what is the like what does the sort of um landscape look like for a developer who has to build an application that's multi","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=148s"},{"start_seconds":157,"text":"terrible terrible like you have different blockchain with different program languages different consensus","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=157s"},{"start_seconds":164,"text":"mechanisms in Cosmos this is better it's better because everyone uses tendermint but it's it's terrible I mean I'm sure","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=164s"},{"start_seconds":171,"text":"like Al goric you guys understand cuz like you're doing you know you do automation across These Chains like again you don't have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=171s"},{"start_seconds":180,"text":"the same language the same tooling that will work across the different blockchain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=180s"},{"start_seconds":188,"text":"platforms yeah I think like you know interoperability um has to work together with RPC right uh you know we started um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=188s"},{"start_seconds":198,"text":"we jumped into web 3 me and my co-founder uh after um couple of initiative in web two and we realized","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=198s"},{"start_seconds":205,"text":"that basically the infrastructure is uh and it's very very hard to develop different apps running nodes how","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=205s"},{"start_seconds":212,"text":"do you get access to the data and the very core implementation of R right is kind of negligable and and you know it's","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=212s"},{"start_seconds":222,"text":"kind of Forgotten layer today um how do you write how do you support this thesis of chain obstruction if you need to run","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=222s"},{"start_seconds":230,"text":"a node in each on every chain how do you support the chain itself when you need to run after different providers make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=230s"},{"start_seconds":238,"text":"sure of the quality of service up time reliability and so forth so I think interoperability cannot go as along","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=238s"},{"start_seconds":245,"text":"without the RPC layer yeah we think about it just in terms of like if you're building a new","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=245s"},{"start_seconds":253,"text":"app what is the first interoperability problem you have and that is getting actual users and liquidity to your chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=253s"},{"start_seconds":262,"text":"um and you shouldn't have to worry about where those users are or what chain they're on or what token they might have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=262s"},{"start_seconds":270,"text":"or whether there's a direct Bridge from your chain to that one and you also shouldn't have to try to understand","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=270s"},{"start_seconds":276,"text":"those things uh Bridges themselves are massively complex a lot of these solver networks that now people are creating are massively complex so the way we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=276s"},{"start_seconds":285,"text":"think about it is just like how can we build um an API that makes it so that developers can have a sort of a single","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=285s"},{"start_seconds":292,"text":"API call to get a user from anywhere to their chain in one transaction and like everything we do kind of works backwards just from that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=292s"},{"start_seconds":302,"text":"yeah I think yeah I think it's exactly that so the IDE is you we try to unify like any chain any liquidity any users","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=302s"},{"start_seconds":311,"text":"anywhere any assets or any protocol that exist on one chain you want to access it from another chain and specifically from","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=311s"},{"start_seconds":319,"text":"um a protocol developer perspective it's nowadays extremely difficult if you want to achieve that so if you want to tap","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=319s"},{"start_seconds":326,"text":"into uh Unis from Cosmos there is no there is no trivial way of like sending a message getting the asset back you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=326s"},{"start_seconds":334,"text":"have to know the underlying and um so so abstracting this like in Internet basically submitting some a request to a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=334s"},{"start_seconds":342,"text":"website web to stuff where you have the router that actually move the packet for you uh when you access google.com you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=342s"},{"start_seconds":350,"text":"you have no idea what's going on under the hood the only thing you care is having the page uh shown at the end with the result you expect and that's I think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=350s"},{"start_seconds":359,"text":"what what we try to achieve in web 3 right now um so it's really difficult but all the abstraction will allow the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=359s"},{"start_seconds":367,"text":"the end user not to feel any friction when dealing with one chain or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=367s"},{"start_seconds":374,"text":"another so how does something like IBC or interacting across chains in IBC compared to interoperability between","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=374s"},{"start_seconds":383,"text":"something like um Bitcoin salana or ethereum salana I guess is a better probably better for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=383s"},{"start_seconds":389,"text":"example I think if I may start you know because we are first commer to web 3 in general but we are super um we have","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=389s"},{"start_seconds":397,"text":"strong expertise in Tech cyber security and I think what we fell in love in in Cosmos and IBC specifically is it was uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=397s"},{"start_seconds":406,"text":"battle tested uh I think never got hacked and um you know a lot yeah until today I know tou good that's what you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=406s"},{"start_seconds":415,"text":"say uh and um you know for us the most important thing was the execution because if you want to go out there and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=415s"},{"start_seconds":423,"text":"build something and I know in this space we like to invent ourself every Monday and Sunday um but if you have a piece of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=423s"},{"start_seconds":431,"text":"technology that can get you faster to where you are um this is the why we actually chose uh to work with IBC and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=431s"},{"start_seconds":441,"text":"it proves itself on the one hand uh man it is coming soon but on the other hand you know the overload of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=441s"},{"start_seconds":450,"text":"uh starting two years ago and now only getting to the main net obviously it's coming with a lot of um you know a lot","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=450s"},{"start_seconds":457,"text":"of challenges let's say uh yeah that's my pros and Co yeah IBC is just different it's a different animal like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=457s"},{"start_seconds":465,"text":"basically L zero just copy IBC line verification that's like Cosmos thing the thing is with IBC is uh the chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=465s"},{"start_seconds":474,"text":"itself is aware of the ISA Bridge which is a very different um system than all the other non- Cosmos","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=474s"},{"start_seconds":484,"text":"bridging Solutions cuz they like for those Solutions you have a third party and you're trusting that third party to do to verify the bridging or ass or","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=484s"},{"start_seconds":493,"text":"message or whatever what what IBC and Cosmos like is chain native the chain recognizes it so like that's why we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=493s"},{"start_seconds":502,"text":"don't have hacking issues that's why the tech is good too but again I think that makes a big difference that the chain itself is aw that is bridge and is aware","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=502s"},{"start_seconds":510,"text":"of the existence of other uh blockchains in the space yeah I mean I I think in general","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=510s"},{"start_seconds":519,"text":"like a lot of interop problems come out of the fact that like ethereum interop is in general um like ethereum has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=519s"},{"start_seconds":526,"text":"been massively successful as a cultural project and massively successful at exporting eth as an asset that other people care about but because the chain","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=526s"},{"start_seconds":534,"text":"has slow finality and Incredibly high gas fees and basically no ability to scale you end up in this world where like everybody wants eth but it's really","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=534s"},{"start_seconds":543,"text":"hard to get out of eth and you can't do the kinds of routing things that you can on the cosmos side to like take a token that's on one chain loop it back through","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=543s"},{"start_seconds":552,"text":"the chain where it came from to wherever you're going so that you get like the correct version or the right version the version that's useful um and then but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=552s"},{"start_seconds":561,"text":"because eth has been so successful as an asset like everybody else inherits this pain because they all want eth um just copy e like they don't you have to wait","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=561s"},{"start_seconds":568,"text":"16 minutes for finality or you need to like bootstrap a solver Network that you have to trust and they're going to take a percentage of your volume because","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=568s"},{"start_seconds":576,"text":"they're taking on risk and like it's just a outcome for everyone and like IBC has completely avoided this tendermint is like the unsung hero of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=576s"},{"start_seconds":585,"text":"this story because tenderman is what gives us fast finality it's not like a property of IBC it's a property of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=585s"},{"start_seconds":591,"text":"tenderman so shout out Jan um and I think all of the like other","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=591s"},{"start_seconds":600,"text":"kind of cross ecosystem interop stories are fraught for somewhat different reasons but basically usually because um","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=600s"},{"start_seconds":609,"text":"the asset like people people don't care about I can do anything on any chain people care about like I can hold some asset that I value and like I can use","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=609s"},{"start_seconds":618,"text":"some specific application and usually um it's not until something pops off in another ecosystem where people are like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=618s"},{"start_seconds":626,"text":"oh like we should have interop here and like this is a priority so like salana is a great example now where all of a sudden people in Cosmos want to hold","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=626s"},{"start_seconds":634,"text":"Soul or they want to buy salana shitcoins but you know a year ago that wasn't the case and so there weren't that many people working on it I know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=634s"},{"start_seconds":641,"text":"the composable team kind of was I know the union guys are and like I just think over time as people are building","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=641s"},{"start_seconds":648,"text":"blockchains in like more formulaic ways and we get the infrastructure bootstrapped for the existing ecosystems that made some of these technical","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=648s"},{"start_seconds":656,"text":"choices early on like we're going to get to a point where it's going to be really good um so I don't I think it's like kind of whack right now but I'm pretty optimistic that's that's shout out to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=656s"},{"start_seconds":665,"text":"Jay though I didn't I didn't miss that yeah I think so IBC is just an example of like an interop ability","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=665s"},{"start_seconds":674,"text":"protocol it's not like a different thing it's just one of the canonical implementation we have seen emerging in Cosmos and it's probably successful","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=674s"},{"start_seconds":682,"text":"because it has been built in the chain uh SDK itself the difference with all the blockchains right now is that need","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=682s"},{"start_seconds":689,"text":"to build on top of the Bas VM which usually have like pre compiles you cannot do the the math that the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=689s"},{"start_seconds":697,"text":"counterparty is doing or in a really gas inefficient way um so with ZK I mean","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=697s"},{"start_seconds":704,"text":"that's how e is becoming a bit less shy interupt otherwise like you it would have still been a mess uh so I think I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=704s"},{"start_seconds":712,"text":"think that's why tender Min and and IPC specifically is successful it's because it has been built in so whenever you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=712s"},{"start_seconds":719,"text":"want to deploy chain you have directly access to this uh the information of the other chain natively um and abstracting","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=719s"},{"start_seconds":728,"text":"over the specific the specificities of ibcs to make it like multi-chain capable","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=728s"},{"start_seconds":735,"text":"through like uh the text like ZK I think is a good way to uh show that IBC is not only Cosmos you know like it's really a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=735s"},{"start_seconds":744,"text":"standard really abstract you can implement it on on many other chains yeah c just implement the IBC","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=744s"},{"start_seconds":752,"text":"yeah let that sink in for a minute that's cool though like that's the thing right like the fact that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=752s"},{"start_seconds":761,"text":"kadano itself has like the foundation the chain is aware of the cosmos space","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=761s"},{"start_seconds":768,"text":"look I know no one's a big fan of kadano here but hey it's they still they peers they build stuff they do things ice cream swap anybody","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=768s"},{"start_seconds":777,"text":"so but yeah I mean those are all those are all really good points um it's kind of almost remarkable because it wasn't","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=777s"},{"start_seconds":784,"text":"that long ago that the thought of teams like dedicating time to figure out how to make these multi-chain Solutions work","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=784s"},{"start_seconds":791,"text":"was unheard of people trying to actively you know go from ethereum to salana or Cosmos to salana to Avalanche to whatever other chain you want and back","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=791s"},{"start_seconds":800,"text":"um so why do you think this uh you know this trend in interoperability has sort of been has sort of been picking up bar you mentioned that like something takes","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=800s"},{"start_seconds":809,"text":"off in one space and then gets forked to another but you know where did where did interoperability start where did this kick off and you know why is this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=809s"},{"start_seconds":816,"text":"trending I will touch just um you know our perspective uh and of of how the ecosystem evolve so when 3 years ago","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=816s"},{"start_seconds":825,"text":"when I jumped into web 3 everyone was telling me like uh it's going to be a consolidation right like one chain to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=825s"},{"start_seconds":832,"text":"rule them all uh I think Barry was talking about it before the uh first mover advantage of eth","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=832s"},{"start_seconds":839,"text":"uh and the ethereum uh ecosystem obviously but today we see you know different uh um Concepts coming up with","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=839s"},{"start_seconds":848,"text":"hundred and thousands different chains basically every this every uh every one of these chains represent different communities right and everyone wants at","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=848s"},{"start_seconds":857,"text":"the end of the day they're not using only dollar they don't use only Euro they're using a lot of different uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=857s"},{"start_seconds":865,"text":"currencies that represent the world right and if you build this kind of community you need to make sure that uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=865s"},{"start_seconds":872,"text":"you have the real tools to move assets around them to make sure that you have the TX stock that give you the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=872s"},{"start_seconds":880,"text":"scalability availability to bring the billion DBS and users to use this basic layer on the other hand um um you know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=880s"},{"start_seconds":889,"text":"keep developing and improve the tech I think OS is doing a great job on that with the evm and um um you know uh we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=889s"},{"start_seconds":898,"text":"chose Cosmos because once we were comparing that to subnets at the time and to par um par chains and we see this","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=898s"},{"start_seconds":907,"text":"is you know where um where all the devs are where is all the most documented um um Tex stack there and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=907s"},{"start_seconds":916,"text":"think now the interesting thing that we presented recently with lava is the pools right everyone can every chain can","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=916s"},{"start_seconds":925,"text":"develop and introduce its own incentive pool and invite providers to join the pools","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=925s"},{"start_seconds":933,"text":"so at the end of the month they're receiving rewards based on the quality of service uh and we did that successfully with Axel we have a great","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=933s"},{"start_seconds":942,"text":"partnership here with OS and near and uh yeah I think um it really represent the interruptibility as the base layer of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=942s"},{"start_seconds":951,"text":"you know how do you consume the data it's the most excited I've ever been about a lava pool but really cool they","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=951s"},{"start_seconds":958,"text":"do a sky like if anyone want to jump out of a plane into a lava pool yeah I just I just came up with our pool party and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=958s"},{"start_seconds":966,"text":"everyone who uh you know take a tweet with the merch can uh can win a Skydive so uh you know nobody knows you here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=966s"},{"start_seconds":974,"text":"guys in the crow zone so if you ever want to jump into a volcano now's your","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=974s"},{"start_seconds":980,"text":"chance yeah I think um the there's like the positive hopeful story about why","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=980s"},{"start_seconds":987,"text":"interop has become an enormous focus and then there's the sort of like pessimistic black pill story like the the black pill story","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=987s"},{"start_seconds":996,"text":"is nobody still has really figured out like what are the unique and compelling","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=996s"},{"start_seconds":1003,"text":"things that you can do with like blockchains and crypto rails but they have figured out that nobody else has figured that out too and so uh people","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1003s"},{"start_seconds":1011,"text":"start to view other protocols is rent seeking and ecosystems is rent seeking and they're like well you know if a blockchain is going to be rent seeking","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1011s"},{"start_seconds":1019,"text":"thing like I'm going to be my own blockchain like I'm not going to let somebody else rent seek from me and that drives a huge um movement towards","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1019s"},{"start_seconds":1027,"text":"sovereignty and I think the other thing is just like we're now and this is like the more optimistic story like we're now","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1027s"},{"start_seconds":1034,"text":"at a point where um the uh stack and by building your own chain enables you to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1034s"},{"start_seconds":1042,"text":"experiment much much faster and do things in very different ways and like I think is sort of this evolutionary Trend","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1042s"},{"start_seconds":1049,"text":"to people doing more stuff to try to figure out okay what are the unique kinds of communities and applications we can build with crypto rails and like","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1049s"},{"start_seconds":1056,"text":"what can we do if we can make those applications accountable to their users in ways that like um we we couldn't do with centralized software so um and I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1056s"},{"start_seconds":1065,"text":"think both of those things drive people to say okay for our community we need our own chain and then like the need for","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1065s"},{"start_seconds":1072,"text":"interop just arises from that like and especially when we meet customers um it's often times they've decided they're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1072s"},{"start_seconds":1081,"text":"launching a rollup or a chain or whatever they're like cool I need to get users here now it's like after that decision that's the first thing and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1081s"},{"start_seconds":1087,"text":"the interoperability obviously just follows yeah I think I think it's also","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1087s"},{"start_seconds":1094,"text":"more difficult than than in web 2 because um uh servers right now when they do interrupt between them they all","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1094s"},{"start_seconds":1102,"text":"trust uh the each other basically so you don't have to account for any anything if you get respond from an IP or a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1102s"},{"start_seconds":1110,"text":"domain name you know uh you do an RPC you get a result that's fine like you don't have to to to do any math to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1110s"},{"start_seconds":1117,"text":"verify the result or whatever uh in web3 it's really difficult because you have to account for the difference in","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1117s"},{"start_seconds":1125,"text":"consensus of the each chain uh and the user don't want to to deal with that at all like the the the the finality level","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1125s"},{"start_seconds":1132,"text":"of the counterparty like who cares it takes 12 minutes to be finalized I want my asset to move like my message to go","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1132s"},{"start_seconds":1140,"text":"through so um dealing with that like abstracting that again from from the user search that uh uh we offshore the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1140s"},{"start_seconds":1148,"text":"risk of finality for instance to the networks of of solvers uh being built right now uh would probably uh help a","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1148s"},{"start_seconds":1156,"text":"lot in the journey and how important is collaboration amongst all the different teams working on these solutions to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1156s"},{"start_seconds":1164,"text":"actually like drive them forward and make them successful as implementations you can say yeah so I can give an","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1164s"},{"start_seconds":1172,"text":"example I think um so at Union for instance we don't try to to do everything um as I just mentioned","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1172s"},{"start_seconds":1180,"text":"abstracting the the of Shoring the the risk to third party um market makers or however you want to call them is uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1180s"},{"start_seconds":1189,"text":"something we don't want to run ourselves so it's basically building a simless API where uh we provide full finality","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1189s"},{"start_seconds":1196,"text":"guarantee like an ISP or something you can imagine you know the the data will arrive at some point get an acknowledgement you know the data has","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1196s"},{"start_seconds":1205,"text":"been verified against the counterparty so you cannot be wed like you cannot be uh sensored or anything uh and and then","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1205s"},{"start_seconds":1213,"text":"we provide like apis for third party to actually like the experts of like doing Market making for instance will be able","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1213s"},{"start_seconds":1221,"text":"to hook into and and do their best uh to have that so like trying to um uh uh collaborate with other team of course","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1221s"},{"start_seconds":1230,"text":"but uh keep doing what you do at the best thing you can do like not trying to solve","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1230s"},{"start_seconds":1237,"text":"everything we could probably do a whole panel on collaboration just between agor and Skip these guys are great yeah I appreciate you guys saying","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1237s"},{"start_seconds":1245,"text":"that um I think it's called orchestration layer yeah we that's later we we think","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1245s"},{"start_seconds":1252,"text":"about this um again I have like the the positive story is I think that we're moving moving towards a world where it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1252s"},{"start_seconds":1259,"text":"is much more common for uh different teams to to collaborate the thing that I worry a lot about in interoperability","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1259s"},{"start_seconds":1267,"text":"though especially with this move to chain abstraction is like the way we are getting to train abstraction is going to be with like this new like layer of many","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1267s"},{"start_seconds":1277,"text":"different kind of like protocolized middlemen that now sit between things and everybody sort of wants to be Monopoly and everybody like is going to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1277s"},{"start_seconds":1286,"text":"become a toll booth over time and every's going to like try to get their slice you've got like the solver Network and they're going to want their slice and you've got the bridge aggregator and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1286s"},{"start_seconds":1293,"text":"they're going to want their slice and you got the bridge and you know it's like and like how complicated is all this going to get um and at that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1293s"},{"start_seconds":1301,"text":"point how much money is going to be left at the end of the day for the user and then people like oh well like no it moves towards the thing where people pay the most but","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1301s"},{"start_seconds":1310,"text":"interop because all of these standards are are not standard uh by any means and and because there's such enormous","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1310s"},{"start_seconds":1317,"text":"Network effects like get TS towards this kind of monopolization um and I think we have to work really hard and teams have to do a lot to try to counteract that so","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1317s"},{"start_seconds":1326,"text":"like one thing that we're doing is we've built this extremely complex system that Aggregates dozens of different dexes 10","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1326s"},{"start_seconds":1334,"text":"different Bridges at this point like um and creates compound routes out of them so you can do things that no one","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1334s"},{"start_seconds":1341,"text":"individual Bridge can do that is like a very powerful system some ways it's like kind of a scary system because you've got like a protocol on one side and they're like we have no idea where our","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1341s"},{"start_seconds":1349,"text":"users come from and then like you have us and we're like don't worry about it and then on the other side there's all this complexity we're just like open sourcing that whole thing um and we're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1349s"},{"start_seconds":1357,"text":"going to be inviting people to contribute to it to add new kind of mechanisms for it and like the reason is that we want to try to make it","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1357s"},{"start_seconds":1365,"text":"accountable to integrators because we think that that's the more valuable thing for us to do over time but because we also think that that's like the behavior that we need to model for the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1365s"},{"start_seconds":1372,"text":"interrup space so yeah you know I think um the key the key important thing here","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1372s"},{"start_seconds":1380,"text":"is uh keep it simple right because if we're going to over complicate um uh you know it's there's no end to that we see","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1380s"},{"start_seconds":1388,"text":"so many new Protocols are coming up and I think uh chain obstruction is a is will play a key role in the next years","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1388s"},{"start_seconds":1395,"text":"for um determining how what protocol going to going to build how it's going to make us much more easier for devs to","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1395s"},{"start_seconds":1402,"text":"build on each and every chain and to kind of fulfill their Vision right at the end of the day we like to uh make","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1402s"},{"start_seconds":1410,"text":"this analogy as if uh you're surfing the web today right you have no idea when you're typing www what is the version of","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1410s"},{"start_seconds":1418,"text":"the HTTP you're using right what is tcpip where the website is located is the gcp AWS and this kind of obstruction","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1418s"},{"start_seconds":1427,"text":"is something that uh um you know is crucial to uh make the next Bull Run","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1427s"},{"start_seconds":1433,"text":"much more uh easy and much more adoptable adaptable in terms of the different daps using that and yeah and","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1433s"},{"start_seconds":1443,"text":"uh obviously I will relate to the basic layer of read write data yeah I'm not from the cosmos space","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1443s"},{"start_seconds":1452,"text":"but you guys suck at coordinating it's a it's a sovereignty thesis you guys do your own L ones but honestly like you guys got to work","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1452s"},{"start_seconds":1460,"text":"together a little bit more like none of those chains know what they're doing like none of the chains are like I don't know like the like the EDM Foundation is","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1460s"},{"start_seconds":1468,"text":"very ESS of pushing for like Improvement improvements and something about Cosmo again I think there's a lot of great","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1468s"},{"start_seconds":1475,"text":"Technical Innovations but it's not being pushed in a certain direction and there is no like right now like with the a you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1475s"},{"start_seconds":1482,"text":"know they like Grant Venture initiative is happening a little bit more but yeah like I don't know","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1482s"},{"start_seconds":1491,"text":"Cosmos got to coordinate a little bit better we got the uh signal for we got 1","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1491s"},{"start_seconds":1498,"text":"minute left so in uh closing remarks um think about what is some version or some aspect of the sort of best case scenario","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1498s"},{"start_seconds":1506,"text":"for inter operability what does it look like one year from now if things go according to your wildest","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1506s"},{"start_seconds":1517,"text":"dreams uh one year from now like probably not that much is that different I don't know 10 10 seem too","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1517s"},{"start_seconds":1526,"text":"long like 10 years seem too long 5 years years didn't seem long enough like I do think um the the thing that we're going","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1526s"},{"start_seconds":1534,"text":"to get to in like one or two years is between major ecosystems or major chains where you do have a lot of kind of shared action and shared users you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1534s"},{"start_seconds":1542,"text":"going to have these kinds of very seamless so I can do something with my money on one chain and and and it's going to work on the other we already have that in Cosmos like this works you","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1542s"},{"start_seconds":1550,"text":"can buy an nft on stargaze from Noble like in one transaction and that's sick I think you're going to start seeing that elsewhere like other places are going to catch up to Cosmos in that","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1550s"},{"start_seconds":1558,"text":"respect I think things between ecosystems are still going to feel pretty horrible yeah for uh in my perspective I","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1558s"},{"start_seconds":1565,"text":"want to see more and more daps building and more uh actually uh usage uh that that we have uh obviously uh in the last","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1565s"},{"start_seconds":1574,"text":"half a year we start supporting more and more chains with lava and in a few weeks we're going to have the Manet so I'm super excited to see in one year how we","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1574s"},{"start_seconds":1584,"text":"support hundreds of chain because basically everyone can spin up his own chain spec support that and solve the RPC","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1584s"},{"start_seconds":1592,"text":"neglected layer yeah so one year from now yeah I I hope we will be able to basically uh es","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1592s"},{"start_seconds":1602,"text":"keep to go through Union have unified Cosmos with any e L2 or L1 hopefully uh","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1602s"},{"start_seconds":1609,"text":"fully finalized uh just l decentralized no just a third party no way to censor","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1609s"},{"start_seconds":1615,"text":"you and uh yeah uh like Barry said I don't think a year is going to change out that much but if","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1615s"},{"start_seconds":1623,"text":"you talk about like five years hopefully we have like games that you could just play you have like Cosmos","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1623s"},{"start_seconds":1630,"text":"gaming blockchains that you could then use that NY collateralize it take out usdc Loans pay your mortgage that's the","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1630s"},{"start_seconds":1638,"text":"future you know like so yeah awesome all right well hold each one of these people accountable verbatim","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1638s"},{"start_seconds":1646,"text":"to what they said is going to happen in the next year and uh thank you guys so much for shedding some light on the interoperability infrastructure and now think of your devs next time you're","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1646s"},{"start_seconds":1654,"text":"swapping some tokens these people put a lot of work into making all that stuff barely work so thank you so much and I'll hand it back off to David","url":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY&t=1654s"}],"youtube_url":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=1GoNn-rJwcY","url":"https://near-pedia.xyz/videos/1GoNn-rJwcY"}